2622: Why Biohacking Sucks for Longevity

Summary

Episode 2622: Why Biohacking Sucks for Longevity

Podcast: Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth
Hosts: Sal Di Stefano, Adam Schafer, Justin Andrews
Producer: Doug Egge
Release Date: June 19, 2025

In Episode 2622 of Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth, the hosts delve into the contentious topic of biohacking and its impact on longevity. With over 40 years of combined experience in the fitness industry, Sal, Adam, and Justin critically examine the effectiveness of biohacking practices and propose science-backed strategies for enhancing health span.

---

Introduction to Biohacking

Sal Di Stefano kicks off the discussion by defining biohacking:

"Biohacking essentially is a practice of using science, technology, lifestyle interventions to optimize physical, mental performance, health and longevity. Now, the problem that I have with biohacking is it focuses a lot on, like, minor contributors or technology or the latest supplement or whatever, and they miss the forest for the trees."
[02:38]

The hosts express skepticism about the biohacking community's emphasis on niche technologies and supplements, arguing that these often distract from more impactful, evidence-based practices.

---

Wearable Devices: A Double-Edged Sword

Sal discusses the proliferation of wearable fitness trackers:

"Wearable devices use trackers, right? ... I don't see the average person putting on an aura ring and then it's significantly improving their health."
[07:29]

While acknowledging that devices like Fitbit and the Oura Ring can be beneficial for fitness enthusiasts, the hosts caution against over-reliance on data points, which can sometimes lead to unhealthy obsessions. Adam Schafer adds:

"I don't think data or data points is the missing link. ... Wearable devices ... are gonna cause any benefit. I think it'll be great for the fitness fanatic ... but even then, ... someone who's fanatical and obsessed is healthy as well."
[09:55]

Justin Andrews emphasizes the importance of coaching in interpreting wearable data effectively:

"They can interpret a lot of the data ... guide and direct based off of some of the data points."
[12:56]

---

Nootropics: More Hype Than Help

The conversation shifts to nootropics—supplements aimed at enhancing cognitive function.

Sal critiques the efficacy of nootropics:

"There's a huge supplement market now for nootropics. ... one of them makes the biggest difference. ... good sleep first and foremost."
[16:17]

She argues that foundational health practices like quality sleep and a proper diet significantly outperform nootropic supplements. Adam concurs:

"Even the best studied nootropics ... pales in comparison to improving your sleep by 10% and even your diet."
[17:35]

The hosts highlight that many nootropics offer perceived benefits without substantial real-world improvements, often leading to dependencies rather than genuine enhancements.

---

Core Strategies for Longevity

Shifting away from biohacking, the hosts outline key strategies backed by scientific evidence to promote longevity:

1. Whole Foods Over Processed Foods

Sal underscores the detrimental impact of heavily processed foods on brain health and overall longevity:

"Avoiding heavily processed foods, stick to whole foods, you'll get a radical impact on your longevity."
[23:09]

She cites studies showing that processed foods can have drug-like effects on the brain's reward centers, leading to overeating and other negative health outcomes.

Adam shares practical experiences, noting significant health improvements in clients who adopt a whole-foods diet for 30 days:

"I've never had a client who has stuck to a 30 day whole food diet ... they see a significant impact on like all significant, significant hair, skin, mood, sleep, digestion, energy."
[25:18]

2. Prioritize Quality Sleep

Sal emphasizes that sleep is a fundamental pillar of health, often overlooked in modern lifestyles:

"Sleep is so important ... you can't get rid of it. ... poor sleep is a terrible contributor to poor longevity."
[28:22]

The hosts discuss the historical context of sleep patterns and how modern technology disrupts natural rhythms. Adam suggests structured sleep routines to enhance quality:

"Put a routine together where ... get a full night's rest and then get up ... notice the difference in two days."
[30:01]

3. Increase Daily Activity

Sal advocates for incorporating more walking into daily routines:

"Just walking 8,000 steps a day has profound health benefits."
[35:40]

She highlights the drastic reduction in daily steps compared to past generations and the associated negative health impacts. Adam adds personal anecdotes about the benefits of increased sunlight and movement.

4. Strength Training

Sal simplifies strength training for longevity, recommending minimal yet consistent effort:

"Once a week ... is all they did. And then they walked the other days."
[40:37]

She explains that even minimal strength training can preserve muscle mass and improve insulin sensitivity, offering substantial longevity benefits without the need for intensive workouts.

5. Community and Big Picture Practices

Sal concludes with the importance of social connections and community involvement:

"Loneliness now has become one of the number one risk factors for poor longevity."
[46:47]

She advocates for engaging in meaningful community activities, whether through spiritual practices, charity work, or other forms of community service, to enhance mental well-being and longevity.

Adam echoes this sentiment, emphasizing the fulfillment derived from serving, giving, or teaching:

"Find a way to serve, give or teach ... and the rewards from that and happiness that will come from that ... is tremendous."
[46:52]

---

Conclusion

The hosts collectively argue that while biohacking presents itself as a cutting-edge approach to health and longevity, it often fails to address the foundational aspects that significantly impact health span. Instead of focusing on the latest gadgets and supplements, they advocate for:

1. Whole Foods Diet
2. Prioritized Quality Sleep
3. Increased Daily Activity
4. Consistent Strength Training
5. Meaningful Social Connections

By adhering to these evidence-based practices, individuals can achieve substantial improvements in their health and longevity without falling prey to the complexities and potential pitfalls of biohacking.

---

Notable Quotes:

"Biohacking focuses a lot on minor contributors [...] and they miss the forest for the trees."
— Sal Di Stefano [02:38]

"Wearable devices can become your master ... your diet tracker can become tyrannical."
— Sal Di Stefano [08:52]

"Good sleep first and foremost [for cognitive performance]."
— Sal Di Stefano [16:27]

"Just walking 8,000 steps a day has profound health benefits."
— Sal Di Stefano [35:40]

"Loneliness has become one of the number one risk factors for poor longevity."
— Sal Di Stefano [46:47]

Transcript

[Adam Schafer]

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[Sal DiStefano]

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[Sal DiStefano]

Cancel CT mobile.com if you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind pump. Mind pump with your hosts, Sal Deste, Adam Schafer and Justin Andrews. If you want a long health span. If you want longevity, forget biohacking. That's what this episode's all about. By the way, we're releasing a brand new Maps program called Maps Longevity. It includes everything you need to do to improve your health span. And because it's a new program, it's discounted. Plus, some free stuff is available. Go to mapslongevi.com, use the code 50 long, get $50 off plus free access to our private forum for an entire year and more. This offer expires on the 22nd. Now this episode is brought to you by sponsor Vuori. They make the best athleisure wear anywhere. And if you go through our link, you'll get a massive 20% off. Go to vuoriclothing.com mind pump. Here comes the show. Biohacking. It's still around and it sucks. We're gonna talk about why it sucks for longevity. What actually contributes to real longevity.

[Justin Andrews]

Why does it sound so spicy?

[Adam Schafer]

It does triggered some people right now.

[Sal DiStefano]

I did. I did. So let's define biohacking first. This is like a big space in the health space. And, you know, when we first started the podcast, biohacking started to become a thing.

[Justin Andrews]

It was getting a lot of momentum.

[Sal DiStefano]

It was, and it's pretty huge now. And you have a lot of people that are. If you type in biohackers, they'll pop up. And who these people? Some of them are good friends of ours.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

But biohacking essentially is a practice of using science, technology, lifestyle interventions to optimize physical, mental performance, health and longevity. Now, the problem that I have with biohacking is it focuses a lot on, like, minor contributors or technology or the latest supplement or whatever, and they miss the forest for the trees. And so you see, like biohacking podcasts and social media posts, they focus so much on these small things that I think they add a lot to confusion. And honestly, if you did none of the things that they advocate for and just focused on the things that we know that the data shows has a big impact, you would have the best longevity. So it's just one of those topics I like to dismiss.

[Justin Andrews]

I remember the first time when we went down to visit Paul Check and he was kind of talking about a lot of these new technologies. I think we're even talking about HRV for a minute. And he was just always referring back to like, the most basic principles of learning your heart rate and learning how to control, you know, your sleep and. And eating habits, and all these things would make such a bigger impact. Indent and to. And everything. It was always like a lot of information, but. But condense it down to like, the. What the biggest blocks are that matter.

[Adam Schafer]

Didn't he have a. I know I'm going to screw this up.

[Justin Andrews]

Four doctors.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, the four doctors. Dr. Sunshine, Dr. Sleep, Dr.

[Sal DiStefano]

Pain and Diet. I think it was.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, maybe look that up, Doug. I know it's. He's. I think it's such a great way. And I wasn't even thinking of him to bring him up right now. What came to mind when you said the biohackers that are in our friends is our buddy Ben Greenfield, who I actually think When I think of the biohacking community, he seems to be the guy who does a pretty good job of actually checking the, the big rocks or doing the big rocks too, in my opinion.

[Sal DiStefano]

Oh, yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Like, I think I have a. And that's why I have so much respect for him. I know he, he, he, he gets a lot of heat and stuff like that, and a lot of people think he's weird, different, whatever. I, I love Ben and I think that a lot of the things that I have a problem with the biohacking community, he addresses, and what that is, is he's not out there doing all these weird biohacking things and then also not doing the big rocks. Right? So, like, I feel like he's really checked the box with the big rocks that make a difference in longevity, which I think they're the points you're going to make. And then he's also doing these other things. So, like, to me, he's one of my favorite people to watch experiment these things. Then you meet other people that are in the community. They're so into the nerdy new science stuff that, and they're trying all this stuff and injecting all this and shining lights in weird places. And then they have poor relationships and they have a terrible, inconsistent diet. And it's just like, you know, you, if you just improved one of those things by 10%, you would get 100 return versus trying this weird thing that may or may not give you a 5% return. You know what I'm saying?

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, 100%. And so what we did is we listed like the top three categories. I would say that biohacker, biohackers like to focus on. Oh yeah. Dr. Diet, Dr. Quiet, Dr. Movement, and Dr. Happiness.

[Adam Schafer]

I think, I just think this goes so well with this conversation. Like, like you thinking about those things right there. And really, is there an area in happiness, movement, being quiet and silent. Right. And, and diet that I can improve by a percent or two. And the return on that is far greater than the greatest biohacking stuff that you guys are all seeing right now, 100%.

[Sal DiStefano]

So I, I, like I said, I listen a few things, a few categories in the biohacking space that are popular. And we'll kind of go over them and talk about maybe, you know, why they stick around or why they're around in the first place. The pros and the cons. And so I'll start with wearable devices. Now, wearable devices use trackers, right? They've been around now for a little while. I remember when the body bug first came out, which was, I don't know, it's gotta be at least 15 years now that that's been out. This is one of the first ones that actually measured, you know, they would say metabolic rate or calorie burn would measure steps. And it was one of the first kind of wearable devices. Now we have so many, right. We have like the aura ring. We have things that can measure Fitbit.

[Justin Andrews]

Fitbit was huge for a minute there. That's probably the first one that really kind of opened up.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah. Movement and sleeping patterns and heart rate variability and all that stuff. And I remember years ago, I don't know if you guys remember this, we had a whole discussion on what their value was. And I had really made a strong point at that, at that time. This was a long time, at least eight years ago, where I said, you know, the people that are really going to use them are the fitness fanatics. I don't see them making an impact on the average person. I don't see the average person putting on an aura ring and then it's significantly improving their health. I could see like, you know, one of us using it or somebody who's really into it. But I don't think data or data points is the missing link. And so, and also there's another side to it. Like you can, a wearable device can then start to become your master. And I've seen this as well with, I've seen this with tracking. They've seen this calorie tracker, which by the way, tracking your calories and macros will do more for you than any other wearable device or tracking device would do. But even that I see so often becomes tyrannical because then you're so afraid to go off of your diet and everything has to fit within my macro type of deal with these wearable devices. That's also the other side of it is where I remember when Doug said this with the Oura ring, he actually had worse sleep because he was so focused on improving his score.

[Justin Andrews]

You're competitive about things you probably shouldn't be that competitive with.

[Sal DiStefano]

That's right.

[Adam Schafer]

It's kind of similar to the science community with the, in the fitness world too, is that I don't think we lack any more science. I think what, the reason why as a, as a whole, right, speaking about our, our society, why we are so overweight and not in shape, is not because we need more science, we need more information. You know, like we have, we have over information. We have more than enough. What we lack is self control, self discipline, consist, sacrifice. I mean, there's so many things that if we just. Which by the way, these are like, I mean, go back to biblical times and stoicism. I mean, of these practices, if we could learn just to apply those to today, everybody would be healthy and fit, right? If we didn't over indulge, we didn't binge, we didn't abuse, we didn't, you know, we weren't late, like, we didn't do all those things. Take out all the great science that we have today and you would be incredibly healthy and fit. So it's similar to that, right?

[Sal DiStefano]

I remember, I remember as an early trainer thinking that if everybody were more educated on nutrition and stuff like that, like that, if we just had more information available, that that would solve the problem. And then I read a study, I brought this up on past episodes. I haven't brought this up in a long time. One of my favorite. This was a study that totally shifted my paradigm. There was a small town somewhere that passed a law that said that all restaurants had to display the calories next to the meals that they were offering. And the thought was, well, if people saw how high of a calorie count the particular meal had, they make better decisions, they would make better choices. And so what they did, and I love that they did this because it's illuminating. And what they did is they studied it and they said, okay, what are people choosing? Are they making different choices now? What are the purchasing habits now that we're listing these. So all these restaurants, everyone in this town was obligated, had to have it up there. So this is 500 calories, 600 calories, whatever. Here's what they found at the end of the period was that people actually ate worse.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, they justified the bump. No, that's only 100 more calories for the double bacon cheeseburger.

[Sal DiStefano]

That's right.

[Justin Andrews]

Was going to eat a salad.

[Sal DiStefano]

But now instead of, instead of somebody going, oh, I'm going to go with the lower calorie option, like, well, that one's only three or more calories and that's tastier. I'm just going to go with that is what they theorize. But it clearly not only did not help, but actually went in the opposite direction. So it's not an information problem. I don't think wearable devices will solve it. I think it's in how you communicate the information and it's how you're coached through the information. That's what a good trainer and coach does. But wearable devices, I don't at all think that these are gonna cause any benefit. I think it'll be great for the fitness fanatic who you give them more things that they can track, and they're just happy as hell because they love to track every little thing. But even then, like I said, I don't think somebody who's fanatical and obsessed is healthy as well. And you brought up having relationships. There was that one study, I think it was Stanford, that published that having poor relationships was as bad for your health as smoking a pack of cigarettes every day. So it's like, okay, you're this. And we know a lot of people like this in our space who are so fanatical about looking ripped and. Or even people are just fanatical about health that they don't have good relationships because they don't go out and do the things and meet with people because it's not perfect and whatever, or they skip things because I got to do my workout. They end up having poor relationships. So they end up trading one thing for another, and they end up turning fitness from a healthy thing into an unhealthy thing. And I believe that wearable devices, when you place too much value on them, like a lot of biohackers, you know, or I should say the data points, they place so much value in data points. I don't think. I don't think it's helping.

[Justin Andrews]

I think it's overrated at the end of the day. Yeah, I think it definitely could be overemphasized with its value. I think initially, too. And this is where I. I also think coaches that utilize these probably has the most value, so they can interpret.

[Adam Schafer]

A lot of the data.

[Sal DiStefano]

There you go.

[Justin Andrews]

They can guide and direct based off of some of the data that. That, that shows glaring differences that they can make micro adjustments. A lot of times, people can't really see through a lot of navigate. So I think if there was a little more of the coaching element involved with that. But even then, like, there has to be a plan, too, to then, you know, evolve past that, so we don't need these devices. It's good to point out things, but at the same time, we don't be stuck there.

[Adam Schafer]

I definitely think that from the coaching perspective, is extremely valuable.

[Sal DiStefano]

Because then it's how you coach it.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, because. Because let's. Let's be honest. The average person is unbelievably unaware of their activity level and what they're doing.

[Sal DiStefano]

Right.

[Adam Schafer]

So when I started making my clients wear tools Like Fitbit, it was not for me to really educate them. Other. It was making that make them aware. You know, it was more like, you know, I'm. I'm reading the data and going like, oh, wow. You know, she's reporting to me that she's so active and she does all this stuff and it's like when I look at the thing, it's like, yeah, you're.

[Sal DiStefano]

You used one data point mostly, didn't you? Yeah, steps.

[Adam Schafer]

Yep. Just movement. That's all I really need to know. I didn't really care about the, you know, the HRV stuff that they have on there and the heart rate and comparing what exercise modality burn more calories. I mean, that stuff that to me was insignificant really. It was. What I knew was. I mean, look back going back to Paul Check and his four doctors. Dr. Movement is one of the doctors. Right. And so I care about movement and activity. I know how much that promotes overall health and longevity is just being active and moving. And a lot of people think because they're busy, think they're active. And so because that it would give me that insight to then be able to coach them and say, hey, you know, we're. I know you were busy yesterday, but you really didn't move much and we want to be moving this much because it's good for us. Right? So to me, that's where those things are better suited. Using it as a biohacking tool, to me is. Is insignificant in comparison to the coaching aspect.

[Sal DiStefano]

Next are these categories of supplements that'll be put in the category of nootropics. So these are things that are advertised to improve cognitive function and performance. Okay, so you have like a classic one would be caffeine. Everybody knows what that does. Then you have the race attempts, you know, category of drugs that are supposedly, you know, will help with mental performance. Lots of stimulants and other, you know, things in these categories. Lots of. There's a huge supplement market now for nootropics. And the reason why I think these are oversold is because if you want to improve your mental performance, there's a few things that'll make a massive difference. But one of them makes the biggest difference. Yeah, good sleep first and foremost. Yeah, that's really it. So I think I know what happens with nootropics and with people who use them is that this becomes a way to band aid over their poor sleep. And they also. What's funny about them is what. What seems to be perceived as better cognitive performance when they do studies on this stuff actually is the perception. Sometimes perceive. People perceive themselves to be performing better, when in reality they're not. Why is that? Well, there's a famous studies on, like, methamphetamines, like Adderall.

[Justin Andrews]

Adderall is a big one.

[Sal DiStefano]

And people. Oh, my God, when I do take Adderall, I'm like, way more. Like, I learned better. Like, no, you actually just like what you're doing. Like, no matter what you're doing, you like it more.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

So it gives you a perception you're.

[Justin Andrews]

Not smart, you're not more productive, but you think you are.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, great.

[Sal DiStefano]

It's kind of like people, like, smoke weed and they're like, I'm way more.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. Listen to your ideas the next day.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

I swear they were creative.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah. So, you know, nootropics, again. I mean, being healthy is the ultimate nootropic. And supplements that promise to help with that, by the way, the one, even the best ones, like caffeine, which do have a positive effect on performance, especially when you're tired, your brain and your body adapt to them so rapidly, your receptors start to downregulate. You start to produce less of whatever catecholamine. You're producing more because of the nootropic order to the point where, like, everybody knows this. I'll give the example. I like to use caffeine. You have caffeine every day at this point, if you've had it every day, it's just to feel normal.

[Justin Andrews]

Mm.

[Sal DiStefano]

Go off for a week, try it again. Now it's like a miracle drug, right? Because your body adapted to it. It not really giving you any benefits anymore. Now you're chained to something like, you wake up. And I know a lot of people wake up in the morning, they don't have their caffeine, they're screwed. Because now it's become a dependency.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. No, again, I mean, there's ways to. Even the best studied nootropics that are out there pales in comparison to improving your sleep by 10% and even your diet. Of course, moving over to a lower carbohydrate to where the brain's firing and utilizing ketones more often will make a difference cognitively. So if you're looking for those benefits, there are natural ways that just. I mean, they're not even in the same universe as some of these things that we tout is so amazing and we sell again the. The our space. Like, we get so excited about new science and new stuff, and a lot of this stuff is attached to sellable products. And so we overhype the science, we overhype the biohacking capabilities of it. When it's like, well, you do know that there's some things within the diet and sleep and movement and stuff that are. That you can tweak just a little bit and you're gonna get 4x the return in comparison to this newest, latest cool drug that someone introduced to you, by the way.

[Sal DiStefano]

Longevity. For me, when I talk about longevity, or for us, it's really health span is what I think about not just how long you're alive, but rather how long you're healthy and independent and functional. One supplement that is really popular in that space and there's data to support it, is nad. NAD for Mitochondrial Health. Now, I know what the data says, but the data points to certain metrics and not necessarily overall outcomes. In other words, I may take a supplement that shows an increase in fat oxidation. They can measure fat oxidation. So we can say, oh, my God, you're burning more body fat. But if at the end of the study I lose more. No additional body fat than everyone else, who cares? Like, it doesn't matter? Right? You can see this for muscle growth as well. This increases this particular marker of muscle growth by 50%. So people are like, oh, let's take that supplement. But at the end of the study, I'm not any stronger and didn't build any additional muscle. Because the human body is incredibly complex. NAD has some stuff to support it in some of these markers. But whenever somebody talks about a supplement for mitochondrial health, I look at them and I go, have you heard of creatine? Yeah, have you heard of creatine? Creatine has end result benefits for a nootropic. It's across the board the best supplement for mitochondrial health. It takes off the load of your mitochondria from producing ATP because it supplies it so readily. And now we even have studies that show it to be. They're going to start using an intervention for people with Alzheimer's and dementia. But creatine's cheap. It doesn't sound exotic. NAD does. You have NAD drips now. People get IVs of them and all that stuff.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

And so that's another one. I'm like, I mean, go for it. If you, if you're doing everything else, by the way, even creatine doesn't. It pales in comparison to exercise, diet.

[Justin Andrews]

Exactly. So obviously, exercise is a big part of the mitochondrial health.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yes.

[Adam Schafer]

So you, you've sold me on the idea that biohacking is Overrated or a waste of my time. But I do want to have a, a longer health span. I want to live a healthier, longer life. What does that look like then?

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, well, number one is to avoid heavily processed foods or eat only whole foods. Whole foods are foods with one ingredient. So fruits, you know, vegetables, meats, you know, minimally processed grains like rice, you know, tubers, like potatoes. When you look at the studies on just how the brain. Now we're going to get into this, but I just found these studies, I'm going to be doing a talk pretty soon in a few days in Las Vegas and this is going to be one of the topics and they have brain imaging on people who consume a diet that's predominantly made of heavily processed foods, which is the average American. So 70%, 80% of the calories come from heavily processed foods. And they show how the brain has now adapted to these hyper palatable foods. And it is drug like effects. You see adaptations in the brain because these foods have been engineered to light everything up like they're irresistible precisely because scientists have engineered them to be so. And so the brain actually adapts and they find that it takes 30 days, I believe for the brain to go back to normal. So you gotta go off everything 30 days. Then the brain resets. It's almost like going off a drug and how you have to kind of reset things. So it changes dopamine, it changes the reward centers in the brain. They cause you to overeat because they're engineered to, they've been scientifically engineered to make you overeat. They're so what's called palatable, which is very complex. People think palatable is just taste. There's so many things that go into that, that avoiding those foods, Number one, you eat less naturally because you're, you're full faster. Number two, you, you don't have these drug like adaptations of the brain which, when you, when you get your brain to adapt, when you get your reward centers to adapt to heavy heavily processed foods, it's like it's adapting to other drugs. Meaning other ways of experiencing reward also get hampered. So the brain actually becomes hampered and hamstrung from constantly eating these foods. So that's number one. Like if you just avoid heavily processed foods, stick to whole foods, you'll get a radical impact on your longevity.

[Adam Schafer]

I've never had a client who has stuck to a 30 day whole food diet, right? And that's normally what I try and challenge or ask family or friends that I know that have never done something like this. I have never had a single person who has stuck to that for 30 days and not felt and seen a significant impact on like all significant, significant hair, skin, mood, sleep, digestion, energy, like across the board. And I want to be clear that this conversation that we're having obviously around biohacking and longevity in this point you're making is not to demonize processed foods or even to act like we don't have processed foods in our diet, but when you become aware of how good you feel from eating only whole foods and by doing something like that, it makes the ability to not or to pass on these foods way easier. And that's one of the biggest challenges when you're helping a client through this process is that pool that they have to these highly processed foods. And that's why they love glomming on to the content that talks about, oh, this idea of demonizing, you know, processed foods. We all eat processed foods and everything's processed and try and convince people that justify those behaviors. And it's like, listen, I'm not going to tell you to never, I'll never tell a client that. And I don't eat that way. But I do know how good I feel when I eat nothing but whole foods. And so when I have those moments where I have this pool to go eat something that's processed and not good for me, it is much easier for me to go, you know what? I don't, I don't really want that because I know how good I feel when I don't. And when I make whole food choices, you know what? I'll pass. And then there's times when I met a birthday and then there's a cake in front of me and there's like something that's processed. It's like, okay, I'm going to enjoy or I'm at a ball game and I'm going to eat something at a. So what I'm very aware of, but becoming aware of that to me is such an important exercise for somebody who wants to pursue living a, a healthy, long life is do that. If you've never done a practice, right?

[Justin Andrews]

It's something that you have to implement. You have to be aware of it. First awareness now you have to bring it in, you have to practice it. And I think a lot of these that we're talking about, really the goal here is we're trying to implement these types of practices that promote better behaviors, that actually prevent disease, that actually promote, you know, preventative matters against like the, the, the, the environmental stresses and the, the things out there that actually will kind of start to slowly deteriorate your cells in your lifespan.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, 100%. So like, so just to keep hammering this with, with processed food. So when the. So this is the true history. When the tobacco industry started feeling the pain of the regulations that the government was finally putting on them, the. The tobacco companies, very smart businesses, hedged their bets and went and bought. At the time, this is late 70s, early to mid-80s, these were the largest corporate purchases and mergers in history at the time. They went and bought food companies, they bought general, you know, General Mills and, you know, these, you know, you know, was it Pacific Hawaiian? Like these huge food companies. And what they did is these tobacco scientists that understood addictive qualities. This is what they did with cigarettes. They, they learned how to make their cigarettes more desirable than other cigarettes. They understood how to create things that were addicting. They moved over to food, and what they did is they looked at food and they said, okay, let's break this down scientifically and let's find out what makes something enjoyable and let's hack into it and engineer, create foods that do that. And that's what they did. So if you look at obesity in America in particular, if you put a chart of heavily processed food consumption up against the chart of obesity, they match up pretty nicely. And you can see the more of them we eat, the more obese that we get. But. Because they make you overeat. But what's really crazy, and I'm going to go back to this, the reward centers of the brain, because you're getting hammered with this hyper palatability and these experiences that you would never get in nature. You would never find a Dorito in nature. You would never get a Pop Tart in nature. It just, it just wouldn't. It just would never happen. When you, when you consume these foods, the. Over time, in a very short period of time, the reward centers of the brain adapt, which means that they become less, you know what else becomes less rewarding? Everything. It actually affects all of your behaviors. So for overall longevity, simply, we're not even telling you macros, calories, proteins, carbs, fat. We're not even going to talk about that. Just eat whole foods. That one step right there will have a massive, massive impact on your longevity. Next up is sleep. Sleep is a huge one. Now. Poor sleep is really a modern, a relatively new, modern problem. And it started with the invention or the application of electricity in people's homes. Yep. You know, before that, like, it got.

[Adam Schafer]

Dark, candlelight and fire.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah. And then you went to bed.

[Adam Schafer]

Yep.

[Justin Andrews]

Activities are done.

[Sal DiStefano]

And in winter, people slept more than people did in the summer. And this is just what you did. And sleep is so important. I've made this point before. Sleep is so important that we still do it. Even after thousands of years of evolution, every animal does it. And let me tell you, evolution would have figured out a way, if that's the case, would have figured out a way to get rid of it. Like, when you're asleep, you are useless. You're not building, you're not hunting, you're vulnerable. Yet we still have to sleep. So it's super, super, super important. You can't get rid of it. You can't change it. And with the invention of electricity, people get less sleep. Electric lights will stay up longer. Now we have endless streams of, you know, entertainment. Now you're seeing sleep patterns in. Kids are terrible because of their electronic devices. This has profoundly negative impacts on health. And all you got to do is look at the studies on people who work swing shifts, and you look at their rates of cancer, heart disease, diabetes. Even if they're not overweight, even if they exercise, it's higher. It's a terrible contributor to poor longevity, is poor sleep. So sleep needs to be. And here's where I'm getting at. It's not gonna happen naturally. If you live in a modern society, you can't just expect to get good quality sleep because everything's designed to keep you awake. So you have to structure it. This is the time I go to bed. I go to bed at the same time every night, wake up at the same time every day, and I'm gonna get my brain ready for sleep an hour before or two hours before. That's how you get good sleep. Otherwise, it doesn't happen.

[Adam Schafer]

I think the hardest part about sleep is that I think most people don't even realize that they're getting poor sleep. They just. And then that just shows you how, like, resilient we are as humans. Like, you've just figured it. You've just adapted to it. This is how I always feel. Or you're blunting the signal with caffeine and all these things. And so you just assume that this is what you're supposed to feel like. And you have never put. This is again, same type of an exercise, right? Like, I suggest to go eat whole foods for 30 days. You know, prioritize sleep for two weeks. You know, like. And what I mean by that is, like, put a routine together where you're like, you say, hey, for 14 days. I'm not gonna let myself stay up later than 9pm I'm gonna be in my bed, all the lights will be off and I'm gonna lay there and I'm gonna go to bed and then I'm gonna get a full night's rest and then get up and like, like do that for 14 days and notice if you know, see if you know.

[Sal DiStefano]

Notice the difference in two days.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Close to sundown and sun up as possible.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Hit those rhythms. And it's, it's. I mean it's built in our wiring and the further away we get from that, like we feel the effects of it.

[Adam Schafer]

It's tough because it's built in our wiring. Yet our culture has shifted so far away from this.

[Sal DiStefano]

Totally.

[Adam Schafer]

I mean, I'll never forget the first time we talked about this when it really dawned on me and I don't remember. I know that Sal's repeated it multiple times. I can't remember who the first person who said it to us or on our podcast or where we saw but talked about Mondays, the jet lag of Mondays. Like how, why, like that's crazy that it's a cultural thing that we all joke about. Circadian RIP Everybody knows that the Mondays are a thing. It's a joke. Everyone's said it forever. There's memes about it. It's like it's in every sitcom. Funny thing like Monday. And it's like, yeah, where does this come from? And it's like, oh, it's because on the weekends we all stay up super late, drink or do our thing like that.

[Sal DiStefano]

Try and sleep in.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Yeah. And then sleep like we totally throw off our, our circadian rhythm and then expect on Monday it supposed to just reset and go back to normal, jet lagged every week it's like, oh my God. And that makes so much sense why Monday sucks so much. It's like it hasn't little to nothing to do with the shitty job you show up to. It's because how you feel. Showing up to the shitty job and you fully. Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

So it's funny too because if, if you took, Let me ask you guys, what do you think would happen if you took a group of. You took 10 people, you know, here in Silicon Valley, you put them in a cabin with no electricity, do you think they would all sleep more? Yeah. Oh yeah, absolutely.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

Because you're like, well, I got nothing else to do. You get bored, it's dark, let's go to bed about it. But you like, for example, if I, if I'm, I'll tell you like the opposite is. If I'm driving in the car with my kids and it's, it's too, it's too late for them to take a nap. Every parent knows this. Right. Your kid takes like a, sleeps in the car too close to bedtime, it's going to screw up bedtime. Right. So you're like trying to keep them awake. It's like a funny thing parents do. You open the windows, train.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

You know what, you know, if I, this is my last ditch effort. You know what I'll do if I give them something to watch on my phone? They won't go to sleep.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, God, no.

[Sal DiStefano]

It'll keep. Even though I see them nodding off, I give it to them, they'll stay awake.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

This is what we're doing to ourselves by being on electronics so close to bed is like, you're not, you're stimulated, you're not going to go to sleep and it's going to screw.

[Adam Schafer]

And the reason why that's not the most effective way to do that is because it overstimulates. That's how powerful.

[Sal DiStefano]

Oh, yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

It's like you go from, oh, just trying to keep them awake to now giving them that. Then they become overstimulated.

[Sal DiStefano]

That's how they scream.

[Adam Schafer]

That's how powerful those tools. No, it's wild. I mean, I feel like a lot of these things that, what I love about we're going over for the longevity thing is like if you just put some, some small goals and, and practices in for just a short period of time of like, okay, I'm just going to be really consistent. This. I, I don't need to sell you on it. You'll see.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Like you'll, you'll feel the difference in, in your days, Your energy, your attitude, your mood, your workouts. Like, everything will be improved. And then if you really care about longevity and that's your goal, then this is the way you approach it is like, here's these big rocks and there's room for improvement on all of them all the time. Focus on that and watch the return.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah. And, and you know, just a little preface here. Everything we're saying requires a little bit of structure and thought because modern societies are not designed for longevity. Okay. So that's why you got to kind of like, okay, I have to avoid eating processed foods. Okay. I need to have a structured way of sleeping or going to bed. Because if you live according to, it's a bit countercultural. If you just live in Modern society, longevity is the last thing you're going to get. The odds are you'll be sick chronically at some point in your life. So next up is to walk daily a lot. Walk daily a lot. Daily activity is profoundly healthy. But here's where we're at. Okay, we're not. This isn't about you becoming an athlete. I didn't say run. I'm not saying join a race, become an athlete. I'm not saying any of that. I'm saying walk daily. Because here's where we're at. We're not at a point where I'm telling you to improve your performance, to improve your longevity. We're at a point where we're at an activity deficiency. We're at such an activity deficiency that just walking 8,000 steps a day has profound health benefits. It's literally like you have a nutrient deficiency. Like, I'm not eating enough vitamin D. My body's breaking down. Take vitamin D. I feel great. Vitamin D is not magic. But going from deficient to sufficient produces miraculous results. Not moving like most people. The average person that works a desk job, which is most people now, probably takes closer to four or five thousand steps a day. Double that. Watch what happens to your vitality and your health. And that right there, just daily activity. Again, it's very strongly connected. It's one of those things you could do that has a huge impact on overall.

[Adam Schafer]

I wish we had the data to compare this to, like, just say 50 years ago, how many steps people took. Yeah, it'd be interesting just to see. I mean, we all have, I'm sure, a speculation on what that. What that is, but it'd be really neat to see, like, what a profound difference it is. And what I think I'm most interested in or why. Why this. Convert this conversation or this point is most interesting to me to talk about is because very quickly we are moving in the wrong direction.

[Sal DiStefano]

Oh, yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Like, I mean, and I. And just this is being honest about even my own behaviors. Like, I went from a guy who didn't know what doordash was and. And instacart to going through Covid being introduced to it and using it as a necessity to, oh, my God, now it's like the only way that I get groceries and the only way that I get takeout food and I don't ever go and do that. Which those were all steps, like going to the grocery store and walking around for 45 minutes to an hour at least once a week was activity that has been eliminated. So where Did I get. Am I now getting it somewhere? I have to make. Now I have to go actively go out and go get it. And so we are con. As technology continues to evolve, we continue to cut all this stuff out. And I think it's a problem already. I think it's getting worse, faster.

[Sal DiStefano]

So in the 1960s, the average American walked 50,000 steps a day.

[Adam Schafer]

Today, how do they know that?

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, it was average based on what people did on their day, during their day. I did read. I did read that before. So they're estimating that people. How often they walked, how many people own cars.

[Adam Schafer]

I mean, you've heard me talk about the. So I've said this. Or I knew. I knew about today. I knew today was under 4,000. So they have it at 4,000. I know that. I've read other places between 3, 403, 800 steps. So that's pretty accurate because we have. We have data for that. Right. We're tracking people's stuff. But I mean, if that is true, that's four times a quarter.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yes.

[Adam Schafer]

In less than a generation.

[Sal DiStefano]

Here's the best data that I can think off the top of my head for something like this. If you look at the longevity, the health span of people who live in cities where driving is inconvenient versus people who live in areas where you need to drive to get everywhere, you see a pretty. Pretty stark contrast in health. Now, I personally know this for family. I have family members that moved to San Francisco.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

And because San Francisco, it's like having a car.

[Adam Schafer]

Annoying.

[Sal DiStefano]

It's dumb. Like driving and finding a nightmare and finding a parking space while you have your apartment could cost you 400 bucks a month. So my family members got rid of their cars, and there were, like, little shops that they just walked everywhere. Everywhere they went, they walked. And everybody lost weight. Everybody got healthier. And trust me, their diets did not change. It was just because they were moving on a regular basis. And so, again, this is one of those things that your life is not. It used to be the reason why it was 15,000 steps before is because if you wanted to go to the store, you probably walked. You know, most houses had one car, and it was with dad, who was at his work. And so I'm gonna go to the post office. Let me go for a walk. I'm gonna go pick up the kids. I'm gonna go for a walk. Let me walk to the school. Let me walk to the grocery store. And so people just moved.

[Adam Schafer]

There's also another compounding effect to this, Sal, that we haven't pointed out too, that I think that we are overlooking that is, is extremely important. This seems to be top of mind for me right now. I've mentioned on the show that, like I have a pool now and so I'm out of the pool all day, in the sun, outside more and it's like, yeah, it's dramatically different. Just, just a year ago, my life of the amount of sunlight that you got. And like I can feel, feel the difference. And so if you don't take a lot of steps, there's a very good chance that you're sitting in a building, sitting in a car, or sitting in your house all the time. And so not only is the movement so important, but also just getting out.

[Sal DiStefano]

Compounding factor.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes. Getting out in the sunshine and getting out in this and like that. The value of that and the importance of that again to our overall health and longevity is profound. And if you think that just in the 60s we were doing four times the amount, we've reduced that dramatically. Just making an effort to get outside and walk those 8,000 steps.

[Sal DiStefano]

If you took three walks a day after breakfast, lunch and dinner for about 10 minutes, it would make a huge dent. That's it. And also timing it. The reason why I'm saying this, timing it, this is the coaching side of me, right. If I tell someone to walk after breakfast, lunch and dinner, they'll actually walk more consistently than they would if I said to do 30 minutes.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, it's called habit stacking.

[Sal DiStefano]

It's habit stacking. And if they miss one or two, they still got one or two in. It also has better effects on insulin sensitivity. Post eating. Moving improves insulin sensitivity more than if you did it at a separate time. So that's the strategy. I tell people after breakfast, lunch and dinner, just go for a walk for 10 minutes. And you'll get pretty close. And you'll get pretty close to what we're talking about next up is lift weights. Lifting weights or strength training is extremely.

[Adam Schafer]

Protective and it doesn't take a lot for longevity.

[Sal DiStefano]

Once a week. Once a week is what you'll see. The data. The data. Now, we're not talking about being a bodybuilder or getting your max lift in or whatever, but once a week is more than enough to derive the longevity benefits of strength training. Strength training is unique to other forms of exercise because the adaptations that occur happen afterwards and stick around longer. So you build strength once a week, you keep that strength. You don't need to do it every single day. Plus, the calorie burn from strength training is not the benefit. The benefit is the strength gain. And it's also protective if your day involves a lot of sitting like most people, have some strong muscle on your body. Your insulin sensitivity is way better even though you're not moving. Your mobility is way better even though you're not moving. Your hormones look way better. You have metabolism that is more flexible because you have more calorie burning muscle. And it only takes once a week.

[Justin Andrews]

To do that at minimum. It's muscle preserving too. And you know, and I, I have clients that have actually made tremendous gains because of the fact of overdoing it for the longest amount of time and really not emphasizing active recovery and allowing their body to really rebuild and, and, you know, move forward in terms of strength and muscle building potential.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. I think of all the points that we're going to talk about, this one is the most misunderstood. I think there is this belief that of how much you need to do to reap the benefits of health and longevity and overall strength.

[Sal DiStefano]

So it's so crazy how little you need.

[Adam Schafer]

It's crazy minimal. And again to your point, we're not saying this is the best way to get body composition chains or be an athlete or be jacked in body weight. Like, no. But when I think about 90% of the clients that I trained, this is.

[Sal DiStefano]

What they all were wanting and they were all happy.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes. They weren't. They weren't. I, I can count on one hand how many people sat in front of me or just like, Adam, I want to get on stage or I want to be an athlete. It's like lean, strong. Most my clients were middle aged people that just wanted to be healthy and fit. They weren't asking for anything crazy. They didn't even want to be jacked or ripped. It was just like, I just want to be healthy and fit. I know I'm getting older. I know I'm out of shape. My doctor showed me my blood work. I know that I got to fix all this stuff. And it's like, to do that, it's one time a week or one exercise a day, like however you want to break it up. If you want to break it up in one movement over five, six days, you could do it that way. Or you do it one day or you do one day, you do it and you will reap tremendous benefits.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah. It's funny you talked about not losing muscle. We have studies on that, Justin.

[Adam Schafer]

In two weeks.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah. One workout every two weeks will prevent the muscle loss that Happens from aging.

[Adam Schafer]

That's literally so. In other words, once a week will.

[Sal DiStefano]

Progress you, progresses you. That's, that's the point. You'll get stronger and you'll build. Ladies and gentlemen, a week builds minimum.

[Justin Andrews]

You preserve it. You can literally build if you repeat.

[Sal DiStefano]

At least half of my clients that I was with for long term only did strength training once a week. That's all they did. And then they walked the other days. And everybody was very satisfied with their health and their fitness.

[Adam Schafer]

And I really feel like if, if the, if the general pop really understood this and I hope that's what we're getting when people listen to chore a lot to commit to, I could commit to that. And then, hey, and then maybe you have periods of time when you're in a rhythm and you're feeling good and you get an extra day or two in there and it's like that compounds and if you just make a commitment to yourself. I mean I love the interview that we did with, with Jamie, right where he said like, like, oh, I just, you know, I'm, I've now identified as, I'm the guy who works out four days a week. It's just like if you just become the person who like I, I never not train you, never not brush your teeth, you never not shower, like just never not not work out one time. Like make that like a non negotiable and it's not a crazy major commitment. And if that's always a non negotiable and then at other periods of your time you have a little sprints where you get a couple more times a week and you're in really good discipline, like wow, then just imagine what a profound difference that can make in your life over a course of a year.

[Justin Andrews]

Especially if you built such a solid foundation and going into your later years to maintain it's, it's literally like the majority of your year could be on that schedule of once a week, you know, intermittently. We could introduce a little bit of stress and like really a challenge in there. But the majority of your entire year, you know, if you, if you keep dialed in with this consistency, you're going to have a great result.

[Sal DiStefano]

To put it differently, building muscle takes time. Keeping it is really easy, really easy in comparison. Strength training is just wonderful in those ways. Lastly, you want to find and I made this general but the but you really want to find and prioritize a consistent quote unquote big picture practice. This typically looks like a spiritual practice, but this also includes charity volunteer work or in other words, community work, where you look at things from a big picture. And the data on this is remarkable. It's hard to find anything that has better outcomes than something like this. You look at the data on people that are part of a church, go regularly, so they're part of that community. The rates of everything bad is so much less than the average person, and the rates of things like happiness, satisfaction are so much higher. And humans, we're just complex, okay? We're complex. We need big picture practices because life can be hard and we can make anything hard just by thinking about it in a particular way. And this puts things in perspective. And a big part of this is community. This is a big part of it. And what's happened, especially in modern times, is we've. What we've done to food, we've done two personal connections. So we've taken food and turned it into engineered food, and we've taken connections and turned it into engineered connections. So now I have a bunch of friends on social media, but that's such a terrible replacement for real friends in person. And the data on this is, again, it's exceptionally clear. So loneliness now has become one of the number one risk factors for poor longevity, especially true for man.

[Adam Schafer]

So I would have, I would have worded this different. I think I would have said, like, find a way to serve, give or teach.

[Sal DiStefano]

There you go.

[Adam Schafer]

And that's like, that's straight out of like Arthur Brooks's formula to like happiness as we age, right? Serve, serve, give or teach. Find a way to, to do that. And I think, you know, because even if you struggle with the, the spiritual side or aspect of it like that, like, I think you can get behind that, that, like, hey, you know, find something I can, I can serve, give or teach to others. And I think the rewards from that and happiness that will come from that and how much that plays a role in your health span, I think is, is tremendous. And so I agree, I think that there, you have to find one of those somehow, whether you go the direction you're talking on the spiritual side or you go the direction I'm saying prevents that spiral.

[Justin Andrews]

You know, you're really giving back and, and enriching other people around you. And you're involved, you're thinking outside of yourself.

[Sal DiStefano]

The vibrance of your social networks is directly related to the vibrance of your health and your longevity. It's very important. But it actually, you know, it's crazy. It's actually not crazy. This is right along the lines of everything we're talking about the default today is not that it used to be the default. Like, you used to have to be a part of communities and socialize and meet with people because that's what your day called for today. A lot of people work from home or in an office, and they don't. If they talk with anybody, it's on social media or through text, and it's having terrible effects on all of our health. You need this. You absolutely need this. And because your life doesn't call it to happen naturally, you need to schedule it. You have to kind of seek it out, which means it's uncomfortable, by the way. All this stuff can feel uncomfortable because it requires some structure and discipline. You know, I know a lot of people. It's funny. People now make jokes. It's like when there's like these memes or these videos where people like friends will randomly show up to their house, they'll all hide, like, what are they doing here? They should have told me they were coming or whatever. That used to be society. People didn't, like, call you, hey, can I come over? They just showed up. Hey, how are we doing now? It's like, oh, my God, if someone shows up, like, you know, I don't want to. I don't want to, you know, be around anybody right now type of deal. But the health effects, it's crazy. You know, speaking of Arthur Brooks, he was talking about great ways to spend money, which I think kind of illustrates this. And he said the worst way to spend money is to buy things. One of the best ways to spend money is to spend it on experiences with people that you love. And he says it's funny because we think of things as being permanent and as experiences being temporary. But the truth is, in terms of happiness, things provide temporary happiness, whereas experiences provide permanent happiness. So this last part right here. And again, you can look at the data on people who attend, for example. The church data is the best because that's the most. I think the most consistent is that people attend regularly who work with their church and their community. Their health outcomes are remarkably good. And I'm going to tell you this right now, oftentimes they're not fit and healthy either. So this just goes to show you how powerful this effect is. They oftentimes aren't lean and fit and healthy, and yet they have better health outcomes because of this big picture thinking. By the way, we've released a brand new Maps program called Maps Longevity. It's different than any other Maps program we've ever created. It comes with a 30 day kickstart where every single day you're doing something different and new. It's a three month program. Of course it includes exercise and diet, but so much more. The focus is longevity. If you go to mapslongevity.com use the code 50 long, you'll get it for $50 off. Plus you'll get free access to our private forum and you'll get to attend our kickoff Zoom call for free where we're gonna take you through the program. This expires on the 22nd, so again go to mapslongevi.com, use the code 50 long for the discount and the free stuff. Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. You can find justinpumpjustin Me at Mind Pump distefano and Adam Indumpaddle thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB super [e-mail] the RGB Super Bundle includes Maps, Anabolic Maps, Performance and Maps Aesthetic nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs with detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos. The RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee and you can get it now. Plus other valuable free [e-mail] if you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review on itunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is Mind Pump.