2644: Eight Best Carbs for Bodybuilding & More (Listener Live Coaching)

Summary

Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth – Episode 2644 Summary

Episode Title: Eight Best Carbs for Bodybuilding & More (Listener Live Coaching)
Release Date: July 19, 2025
Hosts: Sal DeStefano, Adam Schafer, Justin Andrews
Produced by: Doug Egge

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1. The Importance of Carbohydrates in Bodybuilding

The episode kicks off with a discussion on the pivotal role carbohydrates play in muscle building and overall athletic performance. The hosts delve into the misconception that all carbs are created equal and emphasize the significance of selecting the right types to optimize muscle gains and enhance workout quality.

Adam Schafer [02:03]:

"Carbs are not essential. So you can go the rest of your life without eating a single carbohydrate, and you'll probably be okay... However, it's not ideal for most people. Building muscle without good carbohydrates is much more difficult."

Doug Egge [03:07]:

"I'd much rather have my body used to taking in 200 to 400 grams. And then, you know what, though, what they consist of gets to change, you know, periodically."

---

2. The Eight Best Carbs for Bodybuilding

The hosts outline and discuss the top eight carbohydrates beneficial for bodybuilding, explaining why each was chosen and how they contribute to muscle growth and performance.

a. White Rice

Adam Schafer [05:42]:

"Why white rice at the top? In our experience as trainers, it's always easy to digest. It's almost all..."

White rice is highlighted for its digestibility, versatility, and minimal impact on bloating, making it a staple in bodybuilding diets.

b. Sweet Potato

Adam Schafer [07:42]:

"Sweet potato is more nutrient-dense, it's got more fiber... and it tastes really good."

Sweet potatoes are praised for their nutrient density, fiber content, and favorable glycemic index, aiding in sustained energy release.

c. Buckwheat

Justin Andrews [08:42]:

"Buckwheat pancakes taste pretty good."

Buckwheat is recognized for being gluten-free, easy to digest, and versatile in various meal preparations.

d. Quinoa Pasta

Doug Egge [10:11]:

"Quinoa pasta takes tastes the best... and you get a nice little 10 more grams of protein from your pasta."

Quinoa pasta is favored for its higher protein content compared to regular pasta, aiding in muscle repair and growth.

e. Bananas

Adam Schafer [12:10]:

"Bananas are the ultimate fruit for your smoothies."

Bananas are lauded for their carbohydrate density, providing quick energy, especially beneficial for endurance athletes.

f. Berries

Adam Schafer [12:28]:

"Berries are so nutrient-dense, they're dense with antioxidants, anti-cancer compounds, lots of fiber..."

Berries are emphasized for their low-calorie, high-fiber, and antioxidant-rich profile, making them excellent for muscle recovery and overall health.

g. Honey

Adam Schafer [14:23]:

"Honey is nature's fast carbohydrate... it's easy to digest."

Honey is highlighted as a quick energy source, particularly favored by carnivore dieters for its digestibility.

h. Oats (Oatmeal)

Adam Schafer [15:18]:

"Oatmeal is easy for breakfast. If you want a really fast bodybuilding hack for breakfast, it's literally oatmeal with some protein powder in it."

Oats are recommended for their versatility and ability to easily integrate into high-protein meals, supporting muscle growth and recovery.

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3. Identifying the Worst Carbs for Bodybuilding

Transitioning from the best, the hosts identify certain carbohydrates that may hinder bodybuilding efforts.

Adam Schafer [16:45]:

"But bread is one of the worst for me."

Doug Egge [17:09]:

"Once I eliminated bread and got rid of it, not only did I feel so much better, but I also realized there are so many things I can have in replacement that are fine and it never bothered me."

Bread is criticized for its potential to cause bloating and its less favorable nutrient profile compared to other carb sources.

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4. Maximizing Muscle Growth with Protein Shakes

The conversation shifts to the role of protein shakes in muscle protein synthesis and their impact on sleep quality.

Adam Schafer [18:48]:

"They gave these young healthy men a 40-gram protein shake before bed. It extended muscle protein synthesis for seven and a half hours... and it did not disrupt sleep."

The hosts discuss a study demonstrating that consuming a protein shake before bedtime can enhance muscle growth without negatively affecting sleep, provided the individual's overall health and gut function support it.

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5. Enhancing Sleep Quality for Better Performance

Sleep's critical role in muscle recovery and overall health is explored, with hosts sharing personal experiences and recommendations.

Doug Egge [23:04]:

"Eight Sleep is one of the most impactful things I've ever invested in. It adjusts the bed temperature to optimize sleep."

The hosts endorse advanced sleep systems like Eight Sleep, which utilize AI to monitor and adjust bed temperature, thereby improving sleep quality and, subsequently, workout performance.

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6. The Influence of Male Role Models and Masculinity

A profound discussion unfolds on societal perceptions of masculinity, the impact of hyper-domesticated role models, and the importance of healthy masculinity.

Adam Schafer [27:17]:

"Young men growing up without a good male role model tend to become more violent and overcompensate because their ideal of masculinity is media-driven."

The hosts critique extreme masculine figures like Andrew Tate, contrasting them with more balanced role models such as Joe Rogan, who embody humility and resilience without toxic traits.

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7. Live Coaching Sessions

a. Caller Lisi from North Carolina [63:37]

Lisi, a 49-year-old female strength trainee, struggles with muscle gain, fat loss, and chronic sleep issues exacerbated by long work hours and medications.

Adam Schafer [65:46]:

"You need to talk to your doctor and say, I need to get more sleep..."

Doug Egge [73:12]:

"Lisi, you're too much stress on your body. Less is more for you."

Summary:
The hosts advise Lisi to prioritize sleep, consult her healthcare provider about her medication, and adjust her training program to better fit her demanding schedule. They recommend the MAPS 15 program for its suitability to her lifestyle.

b. Caller Corey from Oklahoma [76:55]

Corey shares his health journey, highlighting significant weight loss through online coaching and challenges with body fat perception.

Adam Schafer [80:44]:

"Stay on health. Mobility, strength, how you feel, energy, blood markers. The mirror will follow."

Doug Egge [85:05]:

"Your transformation is incredible. You look great."

Summary:
Corey receives affirmation for his progress and is encouraged to continue focusing on health rather than obsessing over body fat percentages. The hosts suggest regular body fat assessments to monitor his progress objectively.

c. Caller Sam from France [98:58]

Sam discusses his transition to intuitive eating, improvements in sleep, and ambitions to become a personal trainer.

Adam Schafer [107:50]:

"Stay on health. Mobility, strength, how you feel... the mirror will follow."

Doug Egge [109:26]:

"Stay on that, Sam. You're on the right track."

Summary:
Sam is commended for his achievements and encouraged to pursue further education and certification in personal training. The hosts offer resources and support to aid his journey.

d. Caller Robert from Maryland [91:24]

Robert experiences pain in his left forearm and right shoulder during specific exercises and seeks advice on addressing these issues.

Adam Schafer [93:13]:

"Probably an issue with your stabilizers... you need to develop stability in your shoulder."

Doug Egge [94:10]:

"See a physical therapist to get correctional exercises."

Summary:
Robert is advised to consult a physical therapist for personalized assessment and corrective exercises. The hosts recommend specific programs like PRIME PRO to aid in his recovery and suggest adjusting his workout volume.

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8. Conclusion and Final Thoughts

The episode wraps up with heartfelt testimonials from listeners, reinforcing the community and support fostered by the MindPump team. The hosts reiterate the importance of focusing on health, balanced nutrition, and sustainable training practices to achieve long-term fitness goals.

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Notable Quotes:

• Adam Schafer [34:47]:

  "Good friends will talk crap to you or they'll tell you, 'Hey, you're getting fat, dude. Get your shit together.'"

• Doug Egge [49:23]:

  "It's not that bad of a deal because I still got plenty of reserve."

• Sam from France [104:17]:

  "I've realized that I wasn't my body and I deserve to be loved and to love myself."

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Key Takeaways:

• Carbohydrates: Choosing the right carbs is crucial for muscle growth and workout performance. White rice, sweet potatoes, buckwheat, quinoa pasta, bananas, berries, honey, and oats are top choices for bodybuilders.

• Avoiding Certain Carbs: Bread, despite being a common carb source, may lead to bloating and is less favorable compared to other options.

• Protein Intake: Consuming protein shakes before bed can enhance muscle synthesis without disrupting sleep, benefiting those focused on muscle growth.

• Sleep Quality: Advanced sleep systems and prioritizing sleep are essential for optimal health and athletic performance.

• Healthy Masculinity: Balanced male role models are vital in shaping healthy perceptions of masculinity, steering away from toxic extremes.

• Listener Support: Personalized coaching and community support play a significant role in overcoming fitness and health challenges.

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For more insights and expert guidance, visit mindpumppodcast.com or follow the hosts on Instagram: @mindpumpmedia, @mindpumpsal, @mindpumpadam, @mindpumpjustin, and @mindpumpdoug.

Transcript

[Sal DeStefano]

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go.

[Adam Schafer]

Mind Pump. Mind Pump.

[Sal DeStefano]

With your hosts, Sal Destefano, Adam Schafer.

[Adam Schafer]

And Justin Andrews, you just found the most downloaded fitness, health and entertainment podcast. You found. Mind Pump. All right. In today's episode, we had callers call in, ask for coaching. They needed help with their health and fitness and we got to help them out on air. But this was after the intro portion of the episode. Today's intro was 61 minutes long. Now, in the intro, we talk about fitness science, fat loss, muscle gain, diet advice, we talk about parenthood. It's a good time. By the way, if you want us to coach you on air for free, email us your [e-mail] now this episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is eight sleep. This is the most advanced sleep system anywhere. You put it on your bed. The AI device controls the temperature of your bed and monitors your sleep to maximize the sleep quality that you have. It literally changes it on the fly. There's nothing like this anywhere in the world. If you want the best sleep of your life, go to eightsleep.com mindpump use the code mindpump. You'll get $350 off your first Pod 5 Ultra. This episode's also brought to you by Mphormones.com, check with our doctors there for hormone replacement therapy and for peptide therapy. Today I talked about the Wolverine stack, BPC157 and Thymus and beta for accelerated healing. Go talk to them. Check them out. Go to mphormones.com we also have a sale on some programs this month. Maps split in the anabolic metabolism bundle of programs. It's all 50% off. Just head over to mapsfitnessproducts.com and then use the code july50 for the discount. Here comes the show. Is not eating enough carbs or eating the wrong carbs getting in the way of better pumps, better performance, more muscle building? Oftentimes this is the case, but all carbs are the same. We're going to talk about the eight best carbs for bodybuilding. Let's list them.

[Justin Andrews]

The king of carbs.

[Adam Schafer]

Let's do it.

[Doug]

I'm going to see how much of these line up with my my diet.

[Adam Schafer]

They all do. I know they do. I know they do. I know what you eat, you know, you know there's this like, thing that still goes around in the fitness media, whatever space that carbs and there's Some truth to it, right? Carbs are not essential. So you can go the rest of your life without eating a single carbohydrate, and you'll probably be okay. Some people might get some hormone issues, but you'll probably be fine. It's like fats or proteins. You have to eat those. However, it's not ideal for most people. Like, building muscle without good carbohydrates is much more difficult. Brutal. It's much more difficult. The workouts are definitely not as enjoyable.

[Doug]

I don't even know if that's the case. I make as much as I make, like, what a miserable life.

[Adam Schafer]

That's also true.

[Doug]

I mean, that was why it was really easy for me to be like, I don't know if I would ever get rid of these completely. There's too many foods that are enjoyable. And what you, what you do to yourself by eliminating them in the diet consistently is you make yourself so sensitive to it that you. You get such an adverse effect when you reintroduce it. Like, if you have something that's not ideal.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Doug]

And you're also super sensitive because you never have them. It's just like, then the, the negative effects that you could get from it are like compounding. So it's like, yeah, I'd much rather have my body used to taking in 2 to 400 grams. And then, you know what, though, what they consist of gets to change, you know, periodically.

[Adam Schafer]

It's funny you say that, because going no carb and never having carbs for too long actually makes insulin sensitivity worse. In fact, the biggest no carb advocates, Dr. Mercola, for example, now advocates for some carbohydrates once a week to offset this. For exactly what you said. Yeah, because you need. It actually makes a difference. You know, I. The case I'm making is. And there's a variance on what's a good amount of carbohydrates for you, for this, for what I'm about to say. But I go ketogenic often, but I don't do it because it gives me the best bodybuilding results. I do it because I'm sharper and I do it when I'm on a lot of podcasts. But I definitely feel that I suffer in my workouts. The pumps suck. No carb pumps versus carb pumps is two different. It's completely different and not as strong. The data on this is clear. I hate it when people argue this. Yes, low, steady state endurance, you could do that fine in a ketogenic way. But when you're looking for Speed, power, strength. Carbohydrates. This is very well documented. Make a difference. And then. Your point, Adam, like, okay, carbohydrates can be delicious. They can be great ways to enjoy what you're eating. And if you just don't enjoy what you're doing when it comes to your food for a long time or for too long, that's probably a path to unsustainability.

[Doug]

Probably never getting a chance to have popcorn at the movie with my son or the birthday cake that I had two days ago. It's like, I don't know. This doesn't sound like a.

[Adam Schafer]

You have like a steak with a candle in it. Yeah. Happy birthday. Gross.

[Doug]

No, thanks.

[Adam Schafer]

Bad dad?

[Doug]

No, thanks.

[Adam Schafer]

All right, so we. We listed these, and what we're going to do is go through them and talk about the best ways to use them and why they're on this list. Now, at the top of the list is white rice. By the way, there's a reason why it's not brown rice. Back in the day, they would say brown rice is better because it's got a little bit more fiber. First off, it's not that much more fiber, but it's actually not as healthy for you. Brown rice doesn't digest as easily. And brown rice also contains what are known as anti nutrients. It actually reduces the absorption of certain nutrients. So that whole brown rice is healthier. You know, advice is actually a massive.

[Justin Andrews]

It's like that died out.

[Doug]

Yeah, for the most part, it has. But every once in a while, I catch somebody and I'm like, what are you eating brown rice for? Not to mention it tastes like crap.

[Adam Schafer]

It tastes like crap. And it's not healthier. It's actually slightly less healthy.

[Doug]

That's what I mean. It's like. Because most people that make that choice, they make it because they think they're making the healthier choice. And then once they find out it's not the healthier choice, like, what am I doing now?

[Adam Schafer]

Why is white rice at the top? In our experience as trainers, it's always easy to digest. It's almost all.

[Justin Andrews]

Unless you have a factor to that.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes. Unless you have really bad gut issues where you need to avoid all starches for a little while while you solve sibo or something like that. White rice is universally easy to digest, and you can add anything to it.

[Justin Andrews]

You literally can mix anything with white.

[Doug]

I mean, I have so many cases. I have so many cases for it being number one. It's one of probably the easiest to measure in. Way too super easy. Like Scoop of one cup of it.

[Adam Schafer]

And it's perfectly measured.

[Doug]

It's like perfectly perfectly measured. It stores well. It. You can keep in the refrigerator for long. And it doesn't lose. I mean, it's just goes with every. It goes for. With breakfast, lunch or dinner. Like it. It is such a great carbohydrate to mix with all of your proteins that you, that you choose. And it goes with everything.

[Adam Schafer]

And I never get sick of it because it tastes like the other stuff I add to it. So it's like I'm never sick of rice because in the morning I could have it with eggs, I could have it with chicken. I could have it with ground beef, steak, shrimp, salmon. I could add vegetables to it. I can make it sweet, I can make it savory. It's the best carbohydrate. And then it's again, it's super easy to digest. Like 70 grams of carbs from rice. It's like I eat nothing. Sometimes other carbohydrate sources feel like they weigh me down.

[Justin Andrews]

And there's not a lot of people that are intolerant to it.

[Adam Schafer]

That's right.

[Justin Andrews]

For the most part.

[Doug]

Very small percentage.

[Justin Andrews]

Very small percentage.

[Doug]

Obviously there's. So who's yelling at the radio right now or whatever. I can't have it. But it's like there's a very small percentage of people that white rice negatively affects.

[Adam Schafer]

That's right. Next up is sweet potato. Now you can include regular potatoes here as well. I said sweet potato because it's more nutrient dense, it's got more fiber. In my experience, it's easier to digest. Not just personal, but with clients as well.

[Doug]

Tastes better plain too. So.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes. And with regular potato, oftentimes you add a bunch of stuff like butter.

[Doug]

Yes. Yeah. Regular potatoes can get really dry all by themselves. Where sweet potatoes, I can throw them.

[Adam Schafer]

In oven or by itself.

[Doug]

By itself and just eat them.

[Adam Schafer]

Yep. So, and, and with digestion, I've. I've seen this with clients where if they eat too much regular potato, they start to get some. A little bit of bloat feeling. Whereas sweet potato seems to have this great effect on digestion. I think it has to do with the fiber and then also is a.

[Doug]

Little higher in certain nutrients, lower on the glycemic index.

[Adam Schafer]

It is because of the fiber. Yeah, yeah. And like you said, Adam, it tastes really good, but it's like one of my go to's for digestive health when I want a carbohydrate.

[Justin Andrews]

Next up, potato guy.

[Adam Schafer]

Next up is a carbohydrate that's less popular. Very popular in Eastern Europe. Buckwheat. Buckwheat is very easy to digest, gluten free, carbohydrate. And you can make, you know, breakfast cereals with it. You can add other things to it. You can get like buckwheat type, cream of wheat type of stuff.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, I was gonna say the only thing bought is cream of wheat.

[Doug]

They make buckwheat pancakes too. Oh, actually the only, like I was gonna say, this is. Of all the things on your list, this is the one I probably use the least.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Doug]

But I did, I did used to use a, a pancake mix called buckwheat pancakes that I liked. And they taste pretty good.

[Adam Schafer]

Super easy to digest, gluten free. You can buy like instant. It's not cereal, but it's like making cream of wheat in the morning. So it's like grits. It's like making grits, but it's buckwheat. And back when I was really experiencing gut issues, this was one that I could eat. This was one that didn't bother me. And I found this with clients as well. It's very versatile as well. Next up, I got this from Adam. Quinoa pasta. I obviously, I'm Italian, I love pasta. Regular pasta has gluten in it, so it can definitely have some bloating effects on me. And I noticed this with a lot of clients, by the way, cutting gluten out, everything else being equal, about 50% of them notice a reduction in inflammation and bloat. Quinoa pasta takes tastes the best or.

[Doug]

The closest to and boosted protein.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes.

[Doug]

So such a cool thing that you can add this is switch this out and normally is way easier digestible for people. Still goes well, just like any pasta does with all the other meats. And then you get a nice little 10 more grams of protein from your pasta, which I think is an. I mean, you get some protein from regular pasta, but you get even more with the quinoa pasta. So when you're trying to chase down, you know, 40, 50 grams of protein every meal, this is a total added bonus.

[Adam Schafer]

This is our go to. So like my mom makes this incredible pesto. She gets the, she. She makes it homemade and then she'll freeze it and she'll give it to us and it's like this incredible. It's so good. Like really good homemade pesto. So good. And we have quinoa penne pasta and we add that to that and it is absolutely delicious. And then you make A dish I see you eat all the time, Adam, It's. Is it bison and quinoa? Is that what it is?

[Doug]

I do a bison and quinoa Katrina makes.

[Adam Schafer]

It's like noodles with.

[Doug]

She makes this noodles and tomato sauce. It's like. And cheese. It's almost like a lasagna that we make, and we use ground beef. We've done ground turkey in it. But to your point, like, it goes with so many different types of meats. And, yeah, a little bit of red sauce is great with something like that. Almost like. Almost like a spaghetti, you know? So she makes, like, a casserole like that. Like, this is definitely a. Because I like. I love pasta, and it's not a huge leap to go from regular pasta over to quinoa pasta. I don't feel like it's, like, so different.

[Adam Schafer]

Exactly.

[Doug]

That it's like this miserable experience. Especially when you add things like pesto and red sauce and things like, in with the meats. It's like, yeah, you can really pass. I've. I've become so used to it that I almost forget what, like, regular pasta tastes like and don't really notice it until I have, like, oh, wow. Okay. This is a little bit of a difference. That it is. So.

[Adam Schafer]

And it doesn't bloat me at all.

[Doug]

No.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. And then next we have bananas. Bananas are the ultimate fruit for four smoothies.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

You add this to any smoothie, any.

[Doug]

Flavors, savory tart, doesn't matter. It's better.

[Adam Schafer]

And it's really. It's really carbohydrate dense. A banana has got a decent amount of carbohydrate. Probably one of the most carbohydrate dense fruits I could think of.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

If you need quick energy. It's a favorite among endurance athletes.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

For a reason. But I like it for smoothies. If I'm going to make a protein smoothie and I want to add some carbs to it, you can add a lot of different fruit, but a banana is like, it's gonna just make it.

[Justin Andrews]

So it blends well, and the texture and everything else with your shake improves when you add that in 100.

[Adam Schafer]

Next up, we have berries. Berries are. I hate the term superfood, but if you were to call anything a superfood, it's gonna be berries. They're so nutrient dense. They're dense with antioxidants, anti cancer compounds, lots of fiber, and they're super high.

[Doug]

In fiber and low calorie for that. And low calorie sweet. They make like bananas make a lot of things taste a lot better. So great way to sweeten something up, add flavor. Not a lot of calories. Getting some fiber in there. Like, it's.

[Adam Schafer]

Here's how I use berries with clients when they would eat small meals in between their larger meals. These were for clients that struggled with, like, I need to eat something, you know, often. And I'd have them have a protein, and I'd want. And they. And I'd include a carbohydrate that was low in carbohydrates.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

But was also easy and tasty. It was always berries. And then as a parent, berries. This is, like, the ultimate treat for your kids. Like blueberries, raspberries, blackberries.

[Justin Andrews]

Just leave them out.

[Adam Schafer]

Leave them out. Let them eat it. They're getting fiber. It's not a ton of sugar or calories in comparison to other fruits. Super nutrient dense. Great.

[Doug]

If just to touch on the kid thing, man, if you. You and I've seen this play out in other people's kids that have done a good job with this, like, letting your kid eat a lot of, like, raspberries, blueberries, strawberries, as, like, their. Their. Their treat, they will grow up thinking that that's like a dessert.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, that's candy for my kids.

[Doug]

Yeah, yeah. Max. Max thinks, you know, our. After dinner, like, dessert. Last thing he eats, Greek yogurt and fruit is like, this crazy treat. Like, it's like.

[Adam Schafer]

And it is good.

[Doug]

Yeah, it is good.

[Adam Schafer]

Next up is honey. This is nature's fast carbohydrate. This honey is great packed. It's great for. In fact, here's what's funny about honey. It is the one carbohydrate that the carb that the carnivore dieters will use to fuel the workouts. And I don't know why it's honey. I think it's because it's like, it's from an animal, and maybe it's easy to digest. I don't know. I think that it's, like, fits in their philosophy.

[Justin Andrews]

Right.

[Adam Schafer]

But you'll see, like, what's his name? The doc, the guy?

[Justin Andrews]

Saladino.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Saladino. Is that his name? Saladino. Paul Saldino.

[Sam]

Thank you.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

He now, he always super carnivore advocate, but now he has honey.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

To fuel his workouts. And honey's just easy. Like, you could walk. We could have a honey stick as an easy source of carbohydrates in the middle of a long, like, kind of strenuous workout. And it'll Give you the energy.

[Justin Andrews]

Similar to banana. Yeah. Kind of a immediate sort of fuel source.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes, yes. And then last, oats. Oatmeal. Here's why I like oatmeal. Easy for breakfast. Yeah, easy. Carbohydrates for breakfast. If you want a really fast bodybuilding hack for breakfast, it's literally oatmeal with some protein powder in it. Mix it up, boom, you've got high protein breakfast.

[Doug]

It's also part of my bulking strategy with shakes. Adding a banana, a half a cup of oats, and whatever else things that you want to put in there, like, is a great way to boost the calories up on like a gainer shake. And when you, you think, sounds crazy to put dry oats in a protein shake, but you grind up a half a cup. I've done as much as a cup in the shakes. When you get to a cup, you definitely the texture a little dry, but it doesn't bother me. Like, I just, I used to, you know, drink it, drink the oats down. Dry oats.

[Adam Schafer]

That's a mass gainer shake, right?

[Doug]

It is, yeah. Yeah. Great way to. I'm serious. I'd add a half a cup to a cup, depending on how much I'm pushing with what?

[Adam Schafer]

With a protein shake.

[Doug]

Oh, then I would. Then I would do the peanut butter banana, Nutella.

[Adam Schafer]

That's a 700 calories.

[Doug]

Oh, a thousand. Yeah, it's close to a thousand calorie. You put a, you put a cup of. A cup of oats, you put a banana, you put a tablespoon or two of Nutella and peanut butter.

[Adam Schafer]

That's delicious.

[Doug]

And then whey protein. Oh, yeah. And then whole milk if you really want to go, go after it. You got yourself 60 gram, almost thousand calorie gainer homemade gainer shake using all these, these great foods in here.

[Adam Schafer]

Now, because we talked about the best carbs, I didn't list these up here, but do you guys have like a worst carb for you? Like one that you eat? And it's like, I know I'm going to feel like garbage later. I have one bread.

[Doug]

Oh, yeah, bread.

[Adam Schafer]

But bread is the worst for me.

[Doug]

It is. Bread is just, you know, one of the best. It took me a long time to eliminate bread from my diet. And I even went through phases of like, oh, doing the Ezekiel bread and.

[Adam Schafer]

Like, which is better than traditional.

[Doug]

Right, right. Trying all these alternatives and stuff like that. And it's just like, do I really need bread? Like, is it that rewarding or great? And it's like Once I eliminated it and got rid of it, not only did I feel so much better than I also realized, like there's so many, like there's so many things I can have in replace of bit that are fine that it never bothered me.

[Adam Schafer]

Bread for me.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Means I'm not going to feel good digestively. And I'm gonna crash. If I eat like a lot of.

[Justin Andrews]

Bread, it's a compromise.

[Adam Schafer]

I'm gonna fall asleep afterwards.

[Justin Andrews]

Even sourdough. And I love sourdough, homemade sourdough, because my wife does that a lot. But like I have to do it very sparingly still because yeah, you'll get that crash. And it also too, like, there's a bit of gluten still that will affect you.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right. So since we're talking about, you know, foods and stuff like that, I read a study on protein shakes that I thought was awesome. I thought this was an awesome study. So I'm going to read it to you, which is pretty cool. So this was a study that they were looking for, for young, healthy. It was young, healthy men. Okay. And I'm going to assume that they had no gut health issues. Okay. Now the study was, does a 40 gram protein shake before bed improve or extend muscle protein synthesis in sleep? But also, here's the issue, will it negatively impact sleep? Because that's the thing, right? Not eating before bed. The main reason why we do that is so it doesn't disrupt our sleep. Because who cares if you get a spike in protein synthesis but you get crappy sleep, Right? Totally negates wash more. Not even a wash. It's worse.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, it's worse.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Well, here's what they did. They gave these young Healthy Men 40 gram protein shake before bed. It extended muscle protein synthesis for seven and a half hours, which sustained an anabolic response. And it did not disrupt sleep.

[Doug]

You know, I, you know, did not disrupt. I have a theory on that too. I have a theory on this. So, I mean, a young healthy male that is taking these shakes typically are active, trying to build muscle. And like, probably a lot of young men struggle to eat enough calories and protein to build. And therefore being in that means they're in a calorie deficit or maintenance most of the time. I bet if you gave that to sedentary like a sponge. I bet if you gave that to us. Exactly. And so your body's like starving for the extra calories. And I remember this, like just never being able to get enough calories. And so, yeah, eating at midnight didn't affect my sleep. Flip that on. Or, you know, fast forward 20 years later in my life where I actually am very sedentary compared to what I used to be. And if I go to bed or I eat something right before bed, I'm most likely already in a surplus. And so that, that affects the way my body digests it and breaks it down and utilizes it. And then is. Is tougher to go to sleep.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. I think the biggest considerations are gut health. Do you. Are you sensitive in the sense that, you know, little things can disrupt your sleep? Because if little things can disrupt your sleep, then you probably don't want to put like, mess with it. Right. Whereas some people, it's like, I'm a little more resilient. I have healthy gut. My gut is healthy. Remember, this was a shake. It wasn't food. I bet food would have disrupted because.

[Doug]

Yeah, it's true. A shake is prejudiced, super easy to digest.

[Adam Schafer]

It's easy to digest versus, you know, if I have a big meal right before I go to bed. But also, these are young men who are pretty healthy. I don't know about you guys, but I never had issues sleeping as a young man. Never. I never had insomnia or woke up in the middle night as a young guy. Yeah, that didn't start happening to me till I was, you know, maybe later 30s, 30s. And now it's like, you know, I got to pay attention to my sleep, otherwise I can have bad sleep. So I don't know if this is good advice for everybody, but if you're like, yeah, I sleep fine, got good gut health. You know, it's hard for you to get that extra protein in. And you're like, oh, should I take a shake? I gotta go to bed in 30 minutes. I mean, experiment with. Because they test, they looked at sleep quality, they didn't just look at waking up, but rather sleep quality. And it wasn't affected.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Which is pretty good.

[Doug]

I, I really think that the deficit surplus would make a huge difference.

[Adam Schafer]

I agree. Yeah, I think you're in a surplus. You're more likely to have poor gut health anyway.

[Doug]

Yeah. Right. So all the above ends up happening because of that. But the young man who's struggling to get enough protein, struggling to get enough calories, the, the easy digestible shake just goes, yeah, we need this, you know.

[Adam Schafer]

Now, that being said, I will say there's probably a better protein shake than others to have before bed. You're probably better off having a slower digesting. This is where it might actually make sense. For the casein, like casein or egg. Now, it's not because you want the protein to release slowly all night long. I don't think that makes a big difference. But I do know that whey, it absorbs so quickly that it actually causes a little bit of an insulin spike. You actually can find studies on this. Taking whey shake by itself with no fats, you'll see an insulin spike. You don't want to spike insulin before bed because that could interfere with growth hormone production. So you're probably better off with a slower digesting protein like casein or egg protein powder than you are with. With whey, because whey is so quick digesting, which is a benefit, maybe to replenish amino acids post workout. Yeah, you can make that case. But before bed, probably better to have the other stuff, you know what I mean? And then sleeping. Speaking of sleep, the one thing that we do that we have here that gets the better, the best responses or reviews from our listeners for sleep is the eight sleep system. Yeah, that just continues to blow people's minds. And I mean, it's obvious it's an AI controlled temperature on your bed that monitors your sleep. And then it adjusts itself. Yeah, it literally adjusts itself to give you better sleep.

[Justin Andrews]

I just introduced my friend, and it was funny. It got brought up because we were sort of reminiscing because I was. We were roommates in college, and a lot of my sleeping patterns, like, I started to blame on him because I have to have it, like, extremely cold. He was a big guy, and so it was like 30 below out. And a lot of times he'd open the window, he had to have constant air. He'd have a fan blowing on him, you know, all these things. But. And I'm like, have you ever had, like. Like this product where you put it on your bed and it actually cools and keeps your. Your temperature consistent throughout the night? And he's like, what the hell are you talking about? I'm like, oh, dude, I'm gonna blow your mind, you know? And so he. He went out to go research it, and I'm. I'm gonna have to get feedback from him. But, like, he didn't even know that existed. And I'm like, you don't have to have, like a monsoon of fans on you all night long and just to try and, like, keep things.

[Adam Schafer]

No, when the bed is cool, that's.

[Doug]

Like everything I was yesterday, I was talking to James Smith, you know, as you guys know, James Smith, and he was on his story and he said the two best investments he's ever made into his health and fitness journey. And he listed eight Sleep is one of them. And so ideally, I'm like, oh, man, you. Are you partners with them? He's like, no, I just love the product. And so I'm actually in the middle of introducing the two of them right now because I'm like, how are you not. If you're out there telling people we got a huge audience, massive following that eight Sleep is the most. One of the most impactful things you've ever invested in. They're not partnered with you. I'm like, let me make that connection for sure. And since we've been in the new house, man, it. I tell you what, I can now, I've been testing this and I've talked about this before and I keep letting it go up. I let my house get up to 76 degrees in the house and I. It does not bother me.

[Adam Schafer]

So it saves you hell of money, bro.

[Doug]

I. That, to me, that is the. If I'm. If I'm, you know, eight Sleeps marketing team, that is the angle that I'm using. Save you money. Because if you don't know, if you. If you've never tried something like that or you can't maybe even fathom, like, would that make that big of a difference for me? And then you're like, oh, let's cut. It's quite the investment. You know, people would see it and go like, oh, that's not. It's not cheap. It's not a cheap product. And so if you might look at it go like, oh, maybe not now, or that's kind of expensive right now. But if you realize how much less you have to run your AC at night to keep. To keep your core temperature down, like, I guarantee I don't know the time frame, like, what the math is on it, but you got to come up with like one of those calculators. You know how. Yeah. You know how PRX does the gym membership? That's such a. To me, that's such a brilliant way. Because someone's like, oh, man, home gym, that's thousands of dollars. I know, but it's like, well, if we let you make payments on it and your average gym membership is this much, then you finance over three months and it's like, oh, that makes sense. I think eight Sleep should do the same thing where it's like, look at you. If you can reduce your elect. You reduce running your AC for this many hours for this degrees, it translates to this Many dollars. And it's like, oh, within six months you've paid off your, your eight sleep just by that. And so I know it's, I mean I have the, I have my sheet and my heavy comfort duvet. Comforter down. Comforter covering you. Covering me. That's how, that's how cold it keeps me. Yeah, it is, it is wild how.

[Justin Andrews]

The only way I could keep that on top because normally I would push it all over the Courtney side.

[Doug]

So that's my challenge is I'm, you know, some people, I don't know if you guys are like this. Some people can just sleep with a sheet on them or nothing on them. I need, we, I don't know what that is. And you know, maybe it's something I need to look deeper into. Like childhood probably. You need a thunder vest for me. Whatever.

[Adam Schafer]

You gotta feel secure.

[Doug]

Yeah. Whatever it is.

[Adam Schafer]

You have Doug hug you at night.

[Doug]

Yeah, Yeah. I, I, I need weight on me to feel really comfortable. And that's just tough to do when it's, when it's super hot in the, in the room. But with the bed, I sleep with nothing.

[Adam Schafer]

I don't have no sheets on me.

[Doug]

You can do that. I mean it makes sense. Sitting up in the airplane in five minutes, like so that makes total sense.

[Adam Schafer]

I feel very secure when I'm sleeping. Yeah.

[Doug]

Which is do that. I can't. I have to be just the right position and the right amount of weight on me and stuff like that and temperature. So it's life changing.

[Adam Schafer]

I heard a quote from Jordan Peterson. I wanted to say, I wanted to recap, I want to hear what your guys opinion is on this. So what he said was hyper domesticated young men will find hyper aggressive men attractive as role models because they need that aggression. They need, they don't feel it in their lives and so they're attracted to. So I think of like the Andrew Tate.

[Doug]

We have indirectly, we have indirectly talked about this. We have been joking or poking at these alpha male camps.

[Adam Schafer]

These retreats.

[Doug]

Yeah, these retreats for the last, I don't know, four or five years since they've really blown up. And when I watch these videos, it just looks like, it looks like a guy or whoever runs it or owns it is just totally taking advantage of all these beta dudes that think they need this ultra alpha yell, scream, you.

[Adam Schafer]

Know.

[Doug]

This is borderline max masculine toxicity type of shit. It's abusive and type of behavior to counter their ultra beta life.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. So like what's ultra domesticated? Like what's an Ultra domesticated man. I think this is a guy that he's afraid to show any kind of assertiveness past. They're very passive. They. They're passive in the relationships which looks. Which can come out as manipulation.

[Justin Andrews]

Simps.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Can you, can you.

[Adam Schafer]

You know, they're constantly chat.

[Doug]

GBT that. I'd actually really like to see what it spits off because when you, when at first like. Okay, you're defining it. You, you're trying to define yourself. But I'd like to hear what they think. Yeah. What they think is the definition of hyper domesticated. Is that what you said? Hyper domesticated men like hyper domesticated or ultra hyper?

[Adam Schafer]

I don't care either. Ultra is the other one. Who cares.

[Doug]

Yeah, yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

I'm going to say before he finds it. I think it's, it's, it's a very passive, afraid to be assertive guy who. He's constantly catering to women because this is the only way that they will talk to him. And so he's always doing the like, oh, yeah, everything and you're good and whatever. And it's that guy. I know. I've known guys like this in a group of men. It's that guy that gossips behind other people's backs because they're afraid to say things directly.

[Doug]

The term ultra domesticated man isn't a familiar form. Yeah, we're gonna.

[Adam Schafer]

But likely is exceptionally skilled and willing to handle household tasks. No, that's not working.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, I don't think this is what.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, no, no, no, no, no, no. That's what we're talking about.

[Doug]

He said hyper is what he did.

[Adam Schafer]

But I know what he's referring to.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, I think. I'm not sure where he's pulling that terminology from. That's why. Yeah, he's.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, here it is. This is better.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Docile, submissive.

[Doug]

Yeah, there you go. That's what he, he said hyper. So that's what he. That's exactly.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. So it's so.

[Doug]

It's, it's so read it so everybody can hear it.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. General usage. Hyper domesticated man refers to someone who's perceived as excessively adaptable, docile or submissive. Yeah. So. And they're trying to draw parallels to the process of animal domestication. Yeah, it's. And you're going to be attracted to the ultra ridiculous fake masculine role models.

[Doug]

Because you think you need that.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, yeah, you know, because you're like, that's your biggest.

[Doug]

Well, it's the, the two ends of the spectrum.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Doug]

You know, both Toxic. Yeah, exactly. Both unhealthy and the. And the truth is, somewhere in the middle is probably the healthy balance. Right, for this person. But you're attracted to the opposite of the spectrum because you think you need that.

[Adam Schafer]

By the way, this is why young men that are. That grow up without a good male role model, like a strong, healthy male role model, why they tend to become more violent, why they tend to get attractive, they overcompensate because their ideal of masculinity is media. They didn't have a good role model that showed them how to treat women properly, didn't show them how to be assertive properly, didn't show them how to be aggressive when necessary, but also how to be, you know, calm most of the time. And so what they see is, you know, rap music, athletes, media, and they're like, oh, that's masculinity. So that's what I'm going to become. Because they didn't have that, you know, that role model.

[Doug]

You know, I know that as a.

[Adam Schafer]

Young man, you need that role model.

[Doug]

I know we talked about maybe making an episode of this, but I just feel like it's so top of mind that maybe now's the time to kind of bring it up or talk more about it, because we just got off the phone in a really cool question asked from an old friend of ours, Mike, who's reaching out to us about, you know, this stigma around, like, men asking for help.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Doug]

You know, and you know, what is it about that. That men don't ask for help and that it feels. It feels like. It feels less masculine to do that. And basically he was complimenting us because he's like, man, I just feel like you guys are not that you, you represent a very strong, masculine man, but yet you guys are so quick to ask for help. And he goes, where does that come from? And I felt like all of us were giving similar, but yet different answers around that, and so very similar. Have you thought about that before? Have you. Have you ever been complimented like that before and really unpacked, like, where that all comes from for you?

[Adam Schafer]

Well, I think there's personal. You can have individual reasons as to why. Maybe you feel like if you ask for help, you're a burden and maybe you grew up thinking you had to be useful in order to be lovable and, you know, that kind of stuff. But I. I also think generally, so I'm going to speak generally. If you look at the help market, like therapy, for example, it is not geared for men. It is not geared for how men typically get themselves out of things. It's geared more towards how women get themselves out of things. So I'll give you guys. I'll paint a scenario. Okay. Your wife comes to you, and she says to you, oh, my God, so and so at work is such a. Whatever. I'm stressed out. This is so difficult. You probably learned this as men now.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

That the last thing you should do is give her the answer.

[Doug]

Yeah. Try and solve it.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Which she. Probably what she's looking for.

[Doug]

Here's what you need to do. Empathy, Someone to confide in.

[Adam Schafer]

She wants.

[Doug]

Empathy, someone to listen.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. And then she'll figure it out. Right. But what she probably wants is.

[Doug]

Oh, man. Honey, that sucks.

[Adam Schafer]

Wow. That really sucks. That's really difficult. Right.

[Doug]

How are you feeling about it?

[Adam Schafer]

Now? Here's the deal. You guys come to me. One of you guys has a problem, you come to me.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

You're like, imagine this, Adam. You come to me, you're like, hey, Sal, man, I'm really stressed out and have a tough time. And I put my arm around you. It's okay. You're like, what the hell?

[Justin Andrews]

I like body slam.

[Doug]

Yeah. You just.

[Adam Schafer]

You feel like this. This is. I don't want to talk to you ever again.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Because what men need is a direction and a purpose. Yeah. And so I think that's the other reason. I think when men ask for help, we don't. Especially in a professional setting, we don't get direction and purpose. What we get is a lot of empathy, which kind of makes us feel, like, not helpful. Like, it's not helpful. It's maybe useless. And, oh, gosh, I guess I am terrible, you know, type of deal. Which is why here's the other point I'm gonna make around this. A good group of friends, male friends, helps because your buddies, what they'll do is they'll talk crap to you or they'll. And what I mean by good friends, you trust them and you love them. It can't be somebody you don't like, because this won't work. But if Justin comes up to me and he's like, bro, you're getting fat, dude. Like, you need to get, like, you need to get your shit together, man. You get healthy. I'm like, okay, I'm gonna. I'm gonna start. Yeah. Or if I come to him with a problem and just like, what you need to do is this thing over here, like, I'm gonna appreciate. Even if I disagree, I'm gonna appreciate that.

[Justin Andrews]

Here's what worked for me. And that's right. You convey, like, some answer that worked for you.

[Adam Schafer]

So I think that's a big part of it.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Doug]

I don't know. I just feel like, to me, it was, like, the speed at which we get to an answer. I mean, and it's so easy for me to unpack this right now, because I felt like there was a moment yesterday where this happened, where you have four men in a room. We were kind of, like, arguing and debating this. The first place my brain went was like, who's dealt with this problem more than me? And probably could. Could advise better than anybody than the four of us. And so I'm like, call Eddie. You know, call someone. Like, that's right away. I defer to that.

[Adam Schafer]

Versus it's 100.

[Justin Andrews]

My point, because we're all trying to find that solution.

[Adam Schafer]

That's right.

[Justin Andrews]

And we're not with. The frustrating part is when we. We start talking in circles and. And we're not getting anywhere, and. And it's about feelings, and it's in the emotions rise. It's like, get me out of here, dude. Give me the solution.

[Adam Schafer]

No, no. You're 100. You're literally backing up what I'm saying. Adam, imagine if you went to all these people and they came back to you like, oh, man, that's really tough. How stressed are you? Really stressed out.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

What the hell? And not only that, but the other part of it is, you have a direction or purpose. I need this. I need help. Here's the purpose. Can you give me a hand? And they reply and say, yes, do this.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

So you're out there looking for the answer because you have a purpose.

[Doug]

Yeah. But the challenge that Mike was saying that most men don't take that step.

[Adam Schafer]

That's right.

[Doug]

Right. Most men don't. Like, I. Like I said, like, get. Like. It's such a default, easy thing for me where there wasn't a time where I'm like, we should try and figure this out ourselves. Like, and we. Even though I know somebody who might know the answer, like, I. I want to prove I can figure out, like, I don't have that badge of honored.

[Justin Andrews]

Like.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, I get it.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

I just submit.

[Doug]

Well, you're more like that. Admittedly, I can be like, you've admitted that. You're like. You're more like.

[Adam Schafer]

That's more of a personal thing. Because I always felt like I had to be useful.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

So, like I said, there's individual.

[Doug]

There's probably a lot of men, though, that feel that way.

[Adam Schafer]

They can. I think so. I think that that can happen.

[Doug]

Feel the role of provider, have the answers.

[Adam Schafer]

But.

[Justin Andrews]

But again, it was always like being stoic and. And not being, like, emotionally weak. Yeah, well, so that was, you know, that was a part of it. But I had that, you know, in order to improve, I have to bring people in to really help.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. But I'm going to counter that again, you guys, you're right. And we have our own individual reasons. But is. Can dress. Can Justin take good direction from men he respects?

[Justin Andrews]

Yes, absolutely.

[Adam Schafer]

He's had coaches. Can I. Yeah, absolutely. I read a great post on X a while ago. You just reminded me of. It was a male psychologist that wrote this, actually. They reposted something and commented on it. And the post was, guy breaks guy. Guy's girlfriend leaves him, so he goes to the gym to try and get in shape, when what he really needs to do is talk about his feelings. He had all these people commenting. This male psychologist reposted it and said, actually, you would be surprised how many men come out in a much better place because they go try to work on, workout or go work on themselves. And it's totally true. It's the guys, like, I'm not talking about my feelings, but you know what I'm gonna go do? I'm gonna go get better. I'm gonna go get better. And that looks like whatever, working.

[Justin Andrews]

And you are working on improving.

[Adam Schafer]

That's right. That's right. So, yeah, it's just different. It's just different.

[Doug]

Not to come off or sound like I'm at all defending somebody like Andrew Tate, but if you listen to his content, talking to so many young men that come to him with depression and this and that, that's always his first piece of advice. It is go work out.

[Adam Schafer]

Some of what he says is true, which is that why I think he's.

[Doug]

So that's why. Exactly. That's why he's done as well as he's done as far as the popularity is because there are some. There are grains of truth.

[Adam Schafer]

That's right.

[Doug]

In the stuff that he says.

[Adam Schafer]

He's just the best.

[Doug]

I still think I agree with you. He's the. He's the other extreme of that example that we gave it in. Somewhere in the middle is probably the truth. But there. There are some very practical things that he advises some of these young men that. That do work. That's like, hey, you're. If you're a depressed guy, like, go try and be depressed with abs. See what happens. Like, seriously, like that simple like, like you, you're depressed. You can't figure your way out. Like I dare you to go do, go try and be depressed with abs. And it sounds such a vain sure way of saying it, but it's a journey. But yeah, but there's a lot to learn. Yeah, exactly. The pursuit and journey of, I mean, less people are, you know, have abs than are millionaires. That's a hard task.

[Adam Schafer]

That's right.

[Doug]

To solve. And let me tell you what a confidence builder it is to figure that out. And like you try being depressed and doing that.

[Adam Schafer]

You know who's a good example of a male role model that has the qualities like you might say with Andrew Tate was like, no.

[Doug]

John Deloney, Arthur Brooks, Joe Rogan.

[Adam Schafer]

I think Joe Rogan's a great example. He's humble. Yeah. He always asks for questions. Yeah. He's not the guy that says, I know everything, but he's also got that masculinity. He's also got that like, I'll go handle this. I'll go, I'll go work out. I'll try this thing to get better. I think he's a, that's. And, and so that's someone I would point to. Andrew Tate. He's got some truth, but he's also a womanizer, douchebag, ego, manipulator.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

You know, yeah.

[Doug]

But to your original point is that we have, we have these hyper domesticated males by the, by the droves and it's attracting somebody like that because that's why. And like maybe 20, 30 years ago, that guy doesn't get popular whatsoever. Nobody's seeking that as bad as they're seeking that where there's so many men that are seeking that right now.

[Justin Andrews]

Men have just been discarded, you know, in society. You know, it's just, it just seems that it, you know, all the, the positive traits have been really downplayed, by the way.

[Doug]

And someone like us, we're not clickbaity enough. We're not, we're not enough. Even though if you, you could argue, if you listen to the show for long enough, we get that compliment from a lot of young men. Right. As far as the, this, the stuff that we say and help them with. But because we're not extreme enough on the other side, we don't seem to get the same type of attention, attraction for those reasons.

[Adam Schafer]

By the way, you know who sounds the alarm the most on what you just said? Justin, Where a lot of young are getting discarded and just kind of told that they're worthless and masculine traits Are terrible. Do you know who the people are that are speaking out the most against that? Mothers of sons. Yeah, they're the ones that are really sounding the alarm because. And these are women, but they have sons and they see it and they're like, okay, this is a problem that needs to get solved. I can see what's happening to my kid in school. I can see how they're behaving. And they need to understand that, you know, masculinity, not only is it not bad, it is needed. Healthy masculinity is needed in society.

[Justin Andrews]

Are we turning purpose and drive really turning?

[Adam Schafer]

Yes, I think that. I think you are turning. I think we are turning for sure.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

I could also go wrong direction, But I think 100 enough people are talking about it now to where you're starting to see. And by the way, when you look at the data on, like, people who are adopting or moving towards, you know, religion, I think part of it's the discipline. It's Gen Z men. Gen Z young men are moving most. And I think they're the ones that are seeking. They're like, seeking the most.

[Doug]

Yeah, yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

You know, speaking of this, kind of along the lines of this topic, do you guys know what the oldest mention, historical mention of progressive resistance is? Yeah. So have you guys ever heard of the story?

[Justin Andrews]

Is it not Atlas or Milo?

[Doug]

Milo.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, Milo of Croton.

[Justin Andrews]

Where he's carrying the boulder up or. No, the bull. I'm sorry.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Doug, can you look it up and see when this was first, like, how old this is? It's the first example, written example of the understanding. How progressive.

[Justin Andrews]

On his back.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. How progressive.

[Doug]

Resistance every day, carrying the calf up the hill.

[Adam Schafer]

He was like a wrestler. He was incredible.

[Doug]

A true story. I thought that was.

[Adam Schafer]

No, it's a myth.

[Doug]

Okay. I just said that was a myth.

[Adam Schafer]

It's a myth, but what's cool about it is. And I'd love to see how long ago this story originated.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's like, yeah, 6th century BCE.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay, so this is old. Yeah, but it's a great example. So the story goes, Milo as a child, as a young man, picked up a calf on his back and would carry him. And he did this every day. And as the calf got bigger, eventually turning into a bull, Milo got stronger.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

And it was the first mention of progressive, progressive overload and, and, and resistance. Isn't that cool?

[Doug]

Now, the way it was presented, though, was not like that, though, was it?

[Adam Schafer]

No, that's what it was. Yeah. It's literally talked about how that is, how he got stronger.

[Justin Andrews]

That's how he got stronger.

[Adam Schafer]

That was his training.

[Justin Andrews]

As he grew, he, you know, the, the calf, the cow grew.

[Adam Schafer]

Yep. He lifted it and every day it got bigger and so he got stronger.

[Doug]

Oh, yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

I mean, they knew that.

[Doug]

I. I wish that.

[Adam Schafer]

I mean, it's kind of cool, like progressive overload.

[Sam]

Right.

[Doug]

Well, I mean, to that point, I, I wish as a young man that I kind of. I understood that on. At the level that I do today and thought, you know, I could have really approached my training much simpler, more methodical way of just like, you know, I'm just gonna. I'm gonna do the same thing, but just add half a pound every week or something like that. And when you think about a decade or decades, in my case later, like, Jesus, imagine how just strong and then also how healthy you would as safe. You would have done it that way. Like, it just would have been a far better approach.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, better than what I did, which was always. Just see how much I could lift every time.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

You know, and not jumping like, you know, 25, 50 pounds every set. You know, I always thought about that too, because there's those fractional weights.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh my God, I wish I had.

[Justin Andrews]

I wish I had the discipline.

[Doug]

That's what I mean.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. To really methodically just. And even like those little magnet weights.

[Doug]

Just add those on to where you don't even know. That's what I mean. Like, I'm gonna. Like, this would probably serve so many young kids that are lift. Getting into lifting. It's just like.

[Adam Schafer]

It's like every week add a 1 pound weight.

[Doug]

Yeah. And literally just follow the. A good solid basic routine and practice. Yeah. And just get good at the lifts and you know, you know, quietly add that half pound. You know, you're not paying attention and just keep going at that and watch how strong you get and fit along the way, you know?

[Adam Schafer]

So speaking of strong and fit, I'm going to mention this peptide stack again because it is. Every time I use it, it is amazing. The. What they call it the. Oh, yeah, it's BPC157 and thymosin beta. There is a synergistic effect from that, everybody, that now both of them are great for healing recovery. One is more for muscle, the other one's better for cartilage. Connective tissue. Both by themselves. Remarkable. When you combine them, there's a synergistic effect that changes the way my muscles look and actually makes me leaner. And I talked to Jay Campbell about this. I said, what do you think's going on here because he actually lists that stack as one of his favorite fat loss stacks.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

And I said, what do you think is going on? And he's like, the upregulation of the, the growth hormone receptor is, is happening. So your growth hormone becomes far more effective with both. So it's like taking growth hormone with just two peptides that have nothing to do with that. So that stack is like. Have you guys used both together?

[Doug]

Oh, multiple times together. Yes, multiple times. I mean I, I only take them together now. I won't just take one by itself as like, you may as well have the other one because they stack so well together. I mean, my theory is that this has been the athlete stack for decades now because we've, we've known about it for a long time. I think that between the hyperbaric chamber and that and red light and like, and that stack is what is getting these torn acl, MCL football players back on the field within months.

[Adam Schafer]

So fast.

[Doug]

Yeah, like, it's just the only thing that makes sense to me. Like, like how they're able to recover that quick and then get back and perform that way.

[Adam Schafer]

Have you, have you used that stack, Justin?

[Justin Andrews]

I've used it once and this was when I was, I think it was with, when I was having like back issues and like my, my Ql and everything else. Yeah, because every now and then I'll get a flare up of that and, and I wanted to see if it like really made a difference because I was taking the oral and I didn't really notice much difference. But then I started doing the injectables and I, that was the first time I actually used the, the thymus and beta in combination with it.

[Adam Schafer]

Dude.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, it was, it was a lot. Very effective. I definitely felt the difference.

[Adam Schafer]

I wish I had access to peptides as a trainer when I was a trainer. I wish. Could you imagine, can you imagine with your clients that. Good nutrition advice, good training. Here, let's throw this little turbocharger on.

[Justin Andrews]

You because, I mean. Yeah, because you already got all the different like mobility practices and a lot of the different, you know, in combination with that that like you could really like put them in a healing environment.

[Adam Schafer]

Plus I had, you know, towards the end of my career I had a re, I had a affluent client base. So they would not have, they wouldn't have spending money on Peptide. It would have done it. If I told them to do it, they would have done it and it would have been mind blowing.

[Doug]

I think very helpful. I think a Lot of fitness people are. Are integrating it in their regimen now. I mean just if you have the clientele that can afford to.

[Adam Schafer]

Bodybuilders. So I was talking to. I'm not going to say who. I don't want to give anybody away. But I was talking to a pro bodybuilder the other day and he told.

[Doug]

Me that all the pros now all peptides stacked out.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, they're using GLP1's pre contests, of course. And you know what they're saying?

[Doug]

We knew that was coming.

[Adam Schafer]

Do you know what they're saying? So pre.

[Justin Andrews]

First off, things diet easy.

[Adam Schafer]

You know, this is cheating for bodybuilders.

[Doug]

It is the hardest part.

[Adam Schafer]

What made bodybuilding bodybuilding was pre contest diet. Like everything else is easy, the training's easy. Everything else as hard as it is, piece of cake.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

You starve yourself to get down to 2% body fat.

[Doug]

So hard.

[Adam Schafer]

That is some discipline.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

And now they're using GL. They're using GLP1s. And what they're saying is like, bro, I only ate. You know, I ate 10 grams of carbs yesterday. I'm only at this many calories and I don't. I'm not even hungry. I don't care.

[Justin Andrews]

You cheater takes that out.

[Doug]

Yeah, yeah. No, you. What you're used to is dreaming of food. Like I would have midday dreams. Dude, midday. Never in my life.

[Adam Schafer]

When would that happen, by the way? What body fat percentage would it start to get really weird?

[Doug]

Oh, that's a really good question to ask in. Make me try and think back sub eight.

[Adam Schafer]

That's when he got seven.

[Doug]

Yeah, I was gonna say I could get just under. Like I started a single digits. I'm getting close. Once I start getting eight, seven, definitely six.

[Adam Schafer]

Then it's like that's all you think about.

[Doug]

Oh, that's. Once I became. Once I got under sub 6, I saw food move through my body. If that makes sense. Like I eat it in your veins. Yeah. Yes. I mean I. I mean I would eat or drink something and I felt like I could like watch it go to the places. It sounds crazy.

[Adam Schafer]

No, I know, exactly.

[Doug]

But when you were that your skin is paper thin like that, you're ultra sensitive to everything because you've been depleted for so long. The. The slight adjustment.

[Adam Schafer]

All you think about. So this was for me, I've only gotten. I've gotten below, below 7% maybe three times in my whole life. And like you like what you're saying? Exactly. Adam setting 8. 9%. I can do that. And it's not like taking over my life. When I've gotten below 7 and especially below 5. All I thought about was food. Oh, yeah, it was. It's the weirdest worst. Like you have to be so disciplined.

[Justin Andrews]

Sounds horrible.

[Doug]

It's all you think, well, this is where.

[Adam Schafer]

All day long.

[Doug]

This is. This is where the, the massive adoption of the cheat meal or day came from was because you. You knew you had to. Exactly. You knew you had to be. Be so perfect all week long that you're always thinking about Friday at 4pm though. I get all week, I get to have that thousand calorie meal. And I haven't had a meal over 450 calories, bro.

[Justin Andrews]

I was talking something positive.

[Doug]

Yes. So you just, you just think about, I can do it. Oh, I got, you know, seven more meals down to go till I'm there. You know, it's just like, oh, then I can. It totally was a psychological.

[Adam Schafer]

I was talking to this such a.

[Doug]

By the way, unhealthy relationship for 99% of the population.

[Adam Schafer]

I was talking to again, my buddy who's a pro, and he goes, bro. And I'm like, how's the pre contest going, dude? He goes, I was making my. He goes, I used to. He used to compete before he became a dad. And he goes, it sucks. I said, why does it suck? He goes, I'm giving my daughter oatmeal. And I'm just angry because I'm giving her oatmeal. And he's like, I want to take a bite out of her oatmeal so bad. He's like, I'm just pissed off the whole time.

[Justin Andrews]

It just never gets easier, huh?

[Adam Schafer]

It gets worse.

[Doug]

Yeah, it gets worse. It gets harder and harder.

[Adam Schafer]

You're fighting.

[Doug]

Well, think about it. Your. Your body. That's why 89. It's like, ah, it's not that bad of a deal because I still got plenty of reserve. But as you really tap in those.

[Adam Schafer]

Reserves, your body's doing everything.

[Doug]

The biological, the natural biological signals that you have. Your body is screaming at you like, yo, bro, we're getting real close to death here. Like, it's time to like. And so, yeah, I even think that's where the dreams start coming and everything like that. It's like, like this is becoming such a high priority that we're gonna make you think about it all the time.

[Adam Schafer]

You would rather. This is how it is.

[Doug]

We're incredible machines.

[Adam Schafer]

You would rather eat a rice cake with peanut butter on it than have amazing sex with Your wife. That's how much. I'm not even joking.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, no.

[Doug]

Well, especially that.

[Justin Andrews]

Because when you're that low calorie.

[Doug]

Yeah. Your libido dies. Yeah. Yeah. Your body's not even thinking about reproducing at that.

[Adam Schafer]

I wish people knew this when they looked at that and said, oh, I want to look like that. No, you don't. No, that's a torture.

[Doug]

No, it's not shitty. It's so overrated. And like. And there is a. Definitely a. There is a genetic anomalies of people that can just look that way and they're not as horrible. Most people will feel horrible. Will feel horrible going down to that. That level of body fat percentage. The only the, the educational piece was the most valuable thing I got from it. Yeah, that was the most. The most valuable.

[Adam Schafer]

You're that lean. Here's what happens when you're that lean. You can. If you gain a percent body fat, it's. You see it a lot because you're so lean. If you hold three pounds of water, you see it like everything you eat.

[Justin Andrews]

It affects you almost immediately.

[Adam Schafer]

You see it because you're so. Right away, it's like you're. It's like you're. You're translucent. You can see everything.

[Doug]

So that's what made me. I think it gave me the. The words for. Which is interesting for the average client, so much better because I experienced what up until that point, I never. I never connected the dots to my clients that would say things like, Adam, I'm. I'm doing all the things, but I know I'm getting fatter. I feel fatter. I look, I know it. I'm looking in the mirror and I'm like, no, you're not. It's all in your head. It's all in your head. And then I would. It would happen to me. I would be on this perfect diet, but then I would eat something that was just a little more inflammatory or I didn't get as good as sleep different, or I, you know, I ate a little extra carbs or did something, and all of a sudden, like, it looked like I screwed my programming up. Like, I look like, oh, my God, I put on a pound of fat yesterday. But I'm like, I can track everything. It's not even. It's not possible that I could have done that. But yet I'm looking at myself convinced I did something wrong with that way. And then. And then it would. That inflammation would pass. The water retention would go. And then 72 hours later, oh, I look Good. Again. I'm like, oh, shit. Now, this happens. Water to our people. Every day, you know, or not every day. But throughout their training program, this is happening to them. And it's just harder to tell because they don't have such a. They're not so dialed.

[Justin Andrews]

They just can't pinpoint it.

[Doug]

Yeah, yeah. And then. And then if you don't know any better, you course correct. And you think, oh, God, I'm cut your calories. I gotta cut more. I gotta do this other thing. And when in reality, you were actually perfectly. Your body would just hold a little extra water or you ate something that inflamed you a tiny bit or whatever the case may be, and that perception throws off what you were doing, which was perfect already.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. By the way, for people who are interested in that peptide stack, we have [e-mail] so you'd want to go there. They're doctors. These are actual pharmacy, you know, compound pharmacies. That'll make it for you. Anyway, I got to tell you guys about this new sport that I started checking out on social media. Okay. Have you guys seen Doug, can you type in Sanchi Quaddy? It's in the notes there.

[Doug]

Make sure you mute.

[Adam Schafer]

Make sure you hit mute on the tv. I want them to see. It's an Indian fighting sport. And it's typically, like, bigger, heavier dudes.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

And they're in a circle in the dirt. They're wearing. Just like.

[Doug]

They slap each other's chests.

[Adam Schafer]

What is that?

[Doug]

I don't. I don't know. I've seen it. Why do they do that before? And it's just, how do you win? How much do you take it? I think. Right.

[Adam Schafer]

I don't know. Read the rules.

[Doug]

You remember when we were kids, we played that. Like, was it shoulders?

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, yeah.

[Doug]

Where you sock each other's shoulders until the other guy just gives.

[Justin Andrews]

You know, get a dead arm.

[Doug]

Yeah. Like. All right, all right. Enough, enough, enough.

[Adam Schafer]

You know, so here's what it is. One player, the raider, slaps the defender on the chest. The defender tries to grab the Raider's wrist to restrict their movement. If the defender holds the wrist and limits the Raider's movement, the defender wins. If the raider escapes the grip, they win. Fouls are called if any part of the body other than the chest is struck or grabbed. So they're in a circular arena, often with a bamboo pole wrapped in red cloth placed on the ground. With the winter parades, it's a rural sport often performed during festivals or gathering, showcasing physical strength it's funny. It's. Look at these guys.

[Justin Andrews]

I've seen a guy like, run, jump, slap, like, so the goal is you.

[Adam Schafer]

Have to grab his wrist. But if you actually try to grab.

[Justin Andrews]

Trying to be elusive with it.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Then you lose. So you're not gonna try and grab it unless you grab it. So it's wrist grabbing.

[Doug]

This. This clip looks different than what I've seen. I've seen like. I've seen these like, in like dirt. Like just dirt.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, dude.

[Doug]

Like field things or whatever.

[Adam Schafer]

As soon as it plays, we'll be able to see what's. What's going on.

[Sal DeStefano]

Just a bunch of steel images. I'm trying to find some action here.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Okay.

[Adam Schafer]

This group. Group chest slapping. I never seen that one before, Doug. Yeah. And then.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, I've seen other videos.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. And they're like, they got that kid knocked out with a. With a chest slap.

[Doug]

Wow.

[Adam Schafer]

It looks fake to me. But now I get the rules, so that's probably why it does.

[Doug]

Yeah. That's interest. I had no idea the rules. I didn't know how. Again. You never know these days if it's just like some viral trend.

[Adam Schafer]

No, it's an old sport.

[Doug]

Yeah. I didn't know it was a sport. I thought it was just a viral trend that was going. I love.

[Adam Schafer]

I love finding obscure, quote unquote, combat sports. I mean, these are big ass Indian dudes. Look at that guy, bro.

[Justin Andrews]

I love these, like, these team combat ones where like, those are terrible. I know what they're doing right now.

[Doug]

Can he choose anyone to slap? Is that.

[Adam Schafer]

I've never seen group. I've never seen it in a group.

[Doug]

Oh, he's wrestling.

[Adam Schafer]

Wrestling.

[Doug]

He's wrestling.

[Adam Schafer]

Doug's. Doug's searching skills.

[Sal DeStefano]

I just. I typed in what you gave me.

[Adam Schafer]

Put Indian slap, the chest slap fighting sport. Do that. Yeah.

[Doug]

I love, like, this looks different than what I've seen. I know the one you're talking about. They're like in sometimes like dirt.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Two guys. They're normally wearing like a diaper looking thing. It almost looks like, like a sumo version. Indian sumo version, but not sumo, like. And then they're slapping. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh. If you guys don't see his screen, but there's a guy jumping super high.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, I love. I like. I said I love.

[Doug]

This one looks interesting too, though.

[Adam Schafer]

I love obscure fight sports because I think they're so interesting. Like, Senegale wrestling is awesome.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

There's a sport in Italy. It's cultural culture. I think it's called. It's like soccer, but it's any. Like you can fight each other.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, you get to look at this area.

[Justin Andrews]

I like the rites of passage one, too, with certain tribes. Like, have you ever seen that one where they have, like, vines that they tie up to this, like, tall tower?

[Adam Schafer]

Yes.

[Justin Andrews]

And they jump off like a bungee jump.

[Adam Schafer]

And it doesn't stretch, though.

[Justin Andrews]

It doesn't stretch, but. But it goes just on their head. Almost hits the ground.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

And it's like.

[Adam Schafer]

Love it.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, my God.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. See, they. This looks like a show, right?

[Doug]

Yeah. This is the one I've seen. They're in this dirt.

[Adam Schafer]

And then there's. There's this one sport. I want to say it's. It's Pakistan. I gotta find it out. But there's this one guy, he's like, the viral guy of the sport. And Justin, I think I sent you a video of this probably. It is a massive stone, like, smooth stone boulder that's on the ground. Okay. And this guy gets. He squats down. Hello. It's got the best mobility ever seen. And he pulls it up to his knees, and then he pops his hand underneath it and stands up with one hand, and it's on his. And the stone is like, 300 pounds, bro. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

And you see how low he squats.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Under it.

[Doug]

The technique.

[Adam Schafer]

The technique involved is ridiculous. And the guy is obviously very.

[Doug]

It's so funny to me that how much you like all these obscure sports and then you're not a sport guy. Like, you don't watch.

[Adam Schafer]

I did fight sports, remember? I did.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, he does the random stuff.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, I did. I did judo, jiu jitsu. I. You know, anything that involved combat. I love all sports. I was always. Yeah. Other sports was like. I wasn't. I just wasn't that interested. But, yeah, you. You let me watch any kind of a wrestling. Any kind of.

[Doug]

I feel like you have such a history. You have such an appreciation, though, for history, psychology, like, that. I feel like if. If someone. If you actually just cared enough to sit down and, like, learn all the things. Because that's how I always fall in love with sport. Like, I'll see a sport, like, until I learn the rules and the strategy, and then I go, oh, that's cool. Oh, I appreciate that.

[Adam Schafer]

I appreciate the hell out of them. Like, for example, football is one of my favorite sports to admire because it is as close as you can get to war.

[Doug]

Sure.

[Adam Schafer]

Because you literally have. You have your fighter jets, you have your.

[Doug]

The ultimate, ultimate strategy.

[Adam Schafer]

Every player looks different because they have A different role. Like you wouldn't war and then you have to do these plays and it's violent and it's like, it's. It's incredible.

[Doug]

There's a really good series you guys on.

[Adam Schafer]

That's the one that's the stone lifting challenges. Bro. These guys are. Are animals.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. That's crazy. I mean in Scotland too they do this. They have like specific stones forever that like are lifting stones.

[Adam Schafer]

Stones? Oh yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

You just go into somebody's backyard and.

[Adam Schafer]

Bro, that's a 366 pound stone. Look at this guy.

[Justin Andrews]

Wow.

[Adam Schafer]

He's just gonna pick it up. You know how hard that would be to lift off?

[Doug]

You see the guy who just set the record for the. Because it's the same thing. It's the shield, the heavy shield and strongman. He just set the record. How far he carried it was crazy.

[Adam Schafer]

You know what I like about these weird sports? Like these dudes in these rural areas that are lifting stones. Do you know how like badly this guy would kick most people's asses? Like how strong you have to be to lift the rock. Yeah. Off the ground.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

And just. Yeah, dude, look, he's a giant.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. It's insane.

[Doug]

There's a. There's a good series on prime that it's. It's all on Madden the video game.

[Adam Schafer]

Yo.

[Doug]

And the entire. It's a. I think it's like a seven part series. I think it's called Madden something.

[Adam Schafer]

Didn't Madden influence football big video games so much? Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

So that game. Yeah, it really opened up people's knowledge base.

[Doug]

So there's a great documentary that came out a few years ago right after Madden Pass. That was really good too. That I think was on Apple or something like that. Then this one is all on the game. The entire history of building the game. And it goes all the way from its inception to its release coming out this year. And like all the trials and tribulations of that game and the times when.

[Justin Andrews]

They almost lost the Madden Curse.

[Doug]

Every Madden curse is in there. Everything you think about with Madden is in there. But the realism of that and the to be so accurate to the game and then what it's done for kids, like learning from it to. Oh man. What you simulated strategy. Yeah, I mean I, I never. I only played football for a short stint when I was really, really little. And so I didn't understand the game until I got into high school. And the only reason why I really understood the game was because I played Madden, because I played the video game. And like, you learned so much from.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, it took me a long time because I, I was very, I would isolate, like my job and I was like, really good at my job and my specific position on the field. And then I had to learn everybody else and how they interacted with playing. Yeah, well, so then, then once you start learning what everybody else is doing as well, you can predict, more accurately predict, you know, how this is all going to sort of funnel the ball carrier or where, where the, the spots are going to be, where you're going to be most impactful. And then I got into college and we just would literally study, like, just play after play after play. And like, I mean, we, we had the big screen, we go into this theater room and we would just break down film for hours and hours and hours. And it just. My knowledge base of like, you know, predictability and like, how to, how to really put myself in a better position, like, was, was tenfold.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, well, you don't have to step as much.

[Doug]

The evo. The evolution of what you're talking about is what I just love. And I love hearing the breakdown from, you know, some like, like, like a Ray Lewis, for example. Right. And the, the level of understanding that he has that in the practice, like, to where his game knowledge, his, his ability to look at the quarterback's eyes and know like, oh, he's doing this, this and that and like where to position keys.

[Justin Andrews]

Like so for me, like, yeah, like reading guards and like, that was a huge. And so once I figured out too, like how much pressure they put on their hand.

[Doug]

Right.

[Justin Andrews]

See that as they lined up, like, I knew exactly where I was going.

[Doug]

Yeah. Yeah. So cool.

[Adam Schafer]

If you like grass fed meat, if you like high quality chicken and pork, wild caught fish, you got to go to Butcherbox. Butcherbox delivers it to your door. So it's great prices, but it's healthy protein. It's healthy protein. It's the best. It's the only meat company we've ever worked with. Go check them out. Go to butcherbox.com mindpump by the way, we have a Mind Pump favorite cuts box that you could sign up for. Also, if you sign [e-mail] mindpump, you get $20 off your first box, plus free chicken breast, ground beef or salmon included in your box for free for an entire year. Go check them out. Back to the show.

[Sal DeStefano]

Our first caller is Lisi from North Carolina.

[Adam Schafer]

Hi, Lisi.

[Doug]

How you doing? Lisi?

[Justin Andrews]

Hello.

[Adam Schafer]

Hello, how are you?

[Lisi]

Hi guys.

[Doug]

How are you?

[Lisi]

I'm good.

[Adam Schafer]

How Are you good?

[Doug]

Very good.

[Adam Schafer]

How can we help you?

[Lisi]

So I'm just gonna read my question. First of all, I want to let you guys know that you keep me company. I drive an hour and a half to and from work every day and you keep me company every day to and from work.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Lisi]

Love you guys.

[Doug]

Yeah, but.

[Lisi]

All right, I'm gonna read this because it's just easier. I'm a 49 year old female. I've been strength training for years. But about eight months ago, I started a program geared towards menopausal women to help build muscle and gain some weight. I'm not exactly happy with my results. I feel like I've mostly gained fat instead of muscle. My goal, to build muscle and get stronger. So I decided to try one of your programs about muscle. Mommy. My question is about sleep. I struggle with sleep since I was a teenager. Even with a sleep neurologist and a lot of medication, I rarely get more than five to six hours. I work 12 hour shifts and commute. So there simply aren't enough hours to get more than that. Is there any way I can still make progress off of that little bit of sleep?

[Adam Schafer]

Okay, now the reason why you can't get more sleep is because you have issues with sleep, not because you don't have enough time to sleep, right?

[Lisi]

Well, no, I don't have enough time. I don't get home till 8:30 at night. So by the time I shower, get in bed, 9:15, I got to get.

[Adam Schafer]

Back up at 3, 3am yeah. Yeah, you're okay. So beast. Yeah. The only way to get around this, your best second option would be to take naps. Yeah, that's it.

[Lisi]

Because I just don't. I, I don't nap. I don't have time during the day. I work 12 hour shifts. Yeah, my body does not. I don't nap even on weekends. My body just doesn't relax. I don't.

[Doug]

When are you actually getting the workouts in?

[Lisi]

On Saturdays. Mondays and Wednesdays. Saturdays I'm off. Mondays I work eight hours. Wednesdays I work 10 hours.

[Adam Schafer]

All right, we're gonna put you on maps 15 so you have more time.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

And you need to sleep. Five to six hours a night is absolutely detrimental. There's no way around it. There really isn't. Now, are you drinking caffeine?

[Lisi]

I drink by 10 o' clock in the morning and it's just because I'm tired. Like I take medication for daytime sleepiness.

[Adam Schafer]

What is it?

[Lisi]

Because if not, I fall asleep driving. So I'm on medication. For that, to keep me awake during the day. But I try to drink it before 10am yeah. But in order to get me through the day, it's like, that's why you can't sleep. Well, I. I have a lot. Like, I also have bipolar depression, anxiety, and ocd, so I take a lot of medication for that, too. So I don't know if that has anything to do with my sleep issues, because I do.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Lisi]

Like, I take a lot of medication for sleep. A lot.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, my. It definitely might, but the, The. The wakefulness stuff that. So I'm assuming you're taking something like Adderall during the day to keep you awake.

[Lisi]

No, Modafilin.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, okay. So Modafinil. Yeah. Yeah. So that plus caffeine will definitely make it hard for you to take a nap.

[Corey]

For sure.

[Adam Schafer]

For sure.

[Doug]

It'll be hard to go to sleep.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. So, you know, I would. I would talk to your doctor and say, look, I want to try to be able to take a nap during the day. I need to work with my medication in a way that allows me to do this. Because at this point, what you're doing is you're really burning. You're really burning things out. And it's very. It's not good. Just not for your body. It's also not good for your brain. So I would say, hey, look, here's the deal. I want, I need. By the way, I don't know if you know this or the data on this, but the effects of poor sleep on anxiety and OCD and depression are profound. So. Yeah, so it's like, I've been listening.

[Lisi]

To you and now I know.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Yeah. So I would talk to your doctor and say, look, I've seen the studies on poor sleep. I've seen what it does for depression and anxiety and ocd, all the things that I'm struggling with. I need to get more sleep. I would like a schedule or I'd like to work with my medications in a way to where I'm able to take a nap at least. Okay. And I want to see how that's going to work and. And do it slowly and do it slowly. So that's the. That would be my advice to talk to your doctor. As far as exercise is concerned, it's going to be massive.

[Doug]

Yeah. Mass 15 is the way to go low, for sure. Lisa, is this. Is this like a. Just a period of time in your life where you're going to do this job or this shift or this way? Or is this like.

[Lisi]

No, I've been doing this job for 30 years.

[Doug]

Shit.

[Adam Schafer]

Wow.

[Doug]

Wow.

[Lisi]

Yeah.

[Doug]

You're an animal.

[Justin Andrews]

That's rough.

[Doug]

I can't.

[Lisi]

This is my job. This is pretty. I don't know when I'm gonna leave this job. Like, I love my job. I love being there. Like, it's just. Yeah. So I don't know. And like, it's just. You've been like, there's no nap during the day. I work all day. There's no nap. I work in the operating room. I'm a surgical tech. There's no nap. And during the day.

[Doug]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Lisi]

I get that on my feet all day.

[Adam Schafer]

So.

[Lisi]

And then the maps 15. I bought it. But, like, on the days that I work 12 hours shifts, I can't do it, so I can't. I'd only be able to do it four days a week. Is that enough?

[Doug]

That's okay.

[Adam Schafer]

No, no, that's fine.

[Doug]

That's okay.

[Adam Schafer]

That's perfectly fine. You just stay on schedule. In other words, when you can work out. I do workout one. When I can work out, I work out. Two, Oh, I can't work out. Okay. I don't work out. Then the next one is workout three. So you just follow the schedule, and it's not going to look like a perfect week. Does that make sense? You just follow.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Lisi]

I listened to your podcast today where you were telling somebody that, yeah, do.

[Adam Schafer]

That, follow that, and then talk with your doctor. You work in the medical field, so find and sit down with them and say, look, here's the deal. I need to be able to get more sleep. I know its impact on some of my symptoms, but I want to do it in a way that I don't crash out. So I want to do it in a way that's slow and easy, and I want to give myself some time, but I need to be able to at least take. Because that nap during the day could very well be absolutely transformational, and it could lead to a lot of alleviation of your symptoms. It could. It definitely could. I'm not saying it will, but it could. But the data on, you know, five to six hours a night of sleep and its connection to all the things that you said are strong. It's very strong. In fact, you know, there's. There's a lot of data showing that getting more sleep solves those issues for most people. For many people, I should say, yeah.

[Lisi]

When I don't get. When I fall into that two to three hours, I go into manic episodes and things like that. But I'VE been on sleep meds for like 25 years now.

[Adam Schafer]

This may take two or three years of fiddling and going down this process, but you are really burning things out. It's going to make things so much difficult. So difficult for anything fitness or health related. Just very, very difficult.

[Doug]

I'm so impressed with how you sound. You sound so much better than somebody who's only getting that kind of stuff.

[Adam Schafer]

You're very resilient.

[Lisi]

My therapist does not. She's like, I've never seen anybody.

[Doug]

I was gonna say, you are, you are a savage. You are an absolute savage. I just, I can't believe that you sound as full of energy as you are. Considering the way you're burning the candle and for how long you've been doing it for. I'm assuming you live like. Are you like in the suburbs and you drive into the city? Is that.

[Lisi]

Yeah, I live in Regensboro and I drive to Charlotte.

[Doug]

Okay, yeah, yeah, okay.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. No, I get it. And like I said, if you work with them and do it, and the goal is to do it as slow as possible because obviously, because obviously with your work you can't, you know, you can't go into a situation where all of a sudden you can't work or all of a sudden you have, you know, it throws you into depression or, or manic episode. So. So a very slow.

[Lisi]

And I've been out of work for like three months at a time.

[Adam Schafer]

It happened. Yeah. So. So that's why I say work very closely with them and say I want to go as slow as possible. Right. And then, and then just try to nap so that what it might look like is this. By the way, there's, there's some benefit to laying down with your eyes closed and just trying to nap for 30 minutes. There's even benefit to that. So you might not fall asleep, but there is evidence that shows that that's even beneficial. And you just practice it and it's probably going to take a while before it works.

[Justin Andrews]

Have you ever tried like any guided meditation or like a Brain FM or anything to kind of listen to?

[Lisi]

No, I've been listening to you guys talk about the Brain FM in.

[Doug]

The.

[Lisi]

Program I'm on is Warrior Babe. And somebody the other day posted that on my page to try the Brain FM.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, they let you try it for 30 days for free.

[Doug]

I love that. I love. There's a guided meditation part too that like, to Sal's point, even if you can't fall asleep, if you just put like an eye mask on Put your feet up in a chair and just listen. Just listen to it for 20 minutes. Yeah. Like it is. Yeah. Something better than nothing, you know, and attempting that and then attempting to work with your doctor to slowly peel back on, maybe some of the medication would be the ideal.

[Adam Schafer]

And math 15 is as much as I'd have you do.

[Doug]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

You'll get better results on it. It's what's going to happen.

[Doug]

Yeah, yeah, Yep.

[Lisi]

No muscle, Mommy.

[Adam Schafer]

No, no, it's too much.

[Doug]

Yeah, it's too much for where you're at.

[Adam Schafer]

No, no, of course you do.

[Doug]

Of course you do.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Because you want to do more.

[Doug]

You're a glutton for punishment, you know?

[Adam Schafer]

No.

[Justin Andrews]

Matthews, get the 15 version eventually.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. No, you'll get stronger. You'll get stronger and get better results on Mass 15.

[Doug]

Yes. Yes, you will.

[Lisi]

So you think that's why my progress hasn't been great since I joined this program?

[Doug]

Yes. Yes, 100%. Yeah. Someone like you. Less. Fortunately, less is more for someone like you. Yep, for sure. For sure. In fact, it's an extreme environment, a very minimalist type of weight training program. Just because you're with that low of sleep, that much work, work, you are too much stress. You're already working out full time. You're already working out. That's work, you know, that's your body. It perceives that as stress, just like lifting weights. And so you're already. You're already maxing out all the time. The weight training program needs to be more conducive to your lifestyle. And so less is more for you.

[Lisi]

Oh.

[Adam Schafer]

So I'm sorry. Hey, listen, once you start seeing the results, it'll be motivated because you'll notice, oh, my God, I'm stronger.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay. I'm starting to feel better. That's what it's going to be like.

[Lisi]

Yeah, I feel a little stronger, But I gained 15 pounds in eight months since I started this program.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, no, I feel you.

[Doug]

That's a lot. Lisa, are you. Are you in our private forum yet?

[Lisi]

No, sir, I'm gonna have.

[Doug]

I'll have Doug put you in there. Yeah, that way you got direct contact to us. Okay, so as you go through this process, you talk to your doctor, you got questions, just reach out to us. Just message inside the forum. Let us help you and. Yeah, let us help you through this process. Because like said, if we go the direction we need to go, this is not going to be an overnight thing. It's going to be a slow process and a little bit of trial. And error and see what works best for you. But we definitely got to work towards trying to get you more sleep. And again, too important.

[Adam Schafer]

And even if it doesn't work, I think just trying to nap daily is going to give you some benefit because I have. I have a feeling you don't sit still.

[Lisi]

Never.

[Adam Schafer]

That's right.

[Lisi]

I didn't even sit to eat lunch. They make fun of me at work. They're like, do you ever sit?

[Doug]

Of course. Of course you do.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. So laying down with an eye mask on, listening to Brain fm, even if you don't fall asleep, that's going to benefit you?

[Lisi]

Okay.

[Doug]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Thank you so much.

[Lisi]

Will I see anything with this?

[Doug]

Max 15. You got you.

[Lisi]

You might be 50 next month. I was trying to do a little body transformation and nothing.

[Adam Schafer]

You'll get better results with Maps 15 than anything else.

[Doug]

Yes. That's the right program for you and Lisa, this is why I'm going to put you in the forum. You got us. Okay. So feel free to reach out. You got questions about what's going on or what you feel or what you notice, reach out to us and we' help guide you through it.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay.

[Doug]

All right.

[Lisi]

I love you guys. You're the best.

[Adam Schafer]

Thank you.

[Doug]

We love you, too. Go get some sleep.

[Lisi]

Thank you.

[Doug]

See you later. Bye.

[Lisi]

Bye.

[Adam Schafer]

You know, by the way, I'm not even going to pretend. I'm not even going to pretend to be able to, like, help or whatever. She's had doctors obviously work with her for. For decades. And so the fear may just be like. Like, if I were to talk to her doctors, if I were a trainer and I get on the phone, I. I could imagine them saying something like, yeah, it sounds nice, Sal, but anytime we change anything, it throws her into this episode.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

And so it's. It's.

[Justin Andrews]

You don't know the history.

[Adam Schafer]

Right. And so oftentimes what we do is we create this dichotomy of, like, this is good and this is bad, when in reality it's like they're both bad. This is just less bad.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

So that might be the situation. But. But there is. I mean, there's a lot of. There's data on this. Like just sitting there for 20 minutes.

[Doug]

With your eyes closed speaking to our profession and what we are good at. Less is more for this 100 that. That we can guarantee and speak to. What I can't guarantee that fits in here, the medical that if I was.

[Adam Schafer]

Her trainer, this is what it would look like. Like, if I was her trainer, she would come Train with me once a week. We would do two exercises and the rest would be stretching and mobility.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

It would be literally two exercises based stretch and stretch and mobility. Almost therapeutic. And I would trick her into relaxing in the workout. I've done this before. Yeah. Where I'm literally like, I'm training sessions, my massage that whole day.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Our next caller is Corey from Oklahoma.

[Adam Schafer]

What's up, dude?

[Justin Andrews]

What's happening?

[Corey]

Hey guys. Goosebumps right now. This is awesome.

[Doug]

Where are you at? Where are you at right now? You're in a kids club or something? Where are you at?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Corey]

Oh, I'm in a shared workspace.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay. I was kind of expecting like foam or something for kids to jump on.

[Doug]

Like the plastic balls go flying by.

[Adam Schafer]

So what's happening, dude? How can we help you? Yeah.

[Corey]

So first of all, thank you guys. You've made such a difference in not only my life, but. But in me passing along to my family, not only my kids and my wife, but also my parents. So from the bottom of my heart, thank you.

[Adam Schafer]

Thank you, man.

[Doug]

Thank you.

[Justin Andrews]

Love it.

[Corey]

So some stuff has changed since I submitted my question, but I'll just kind of run through my question and then update you guys on what I've done since.

[Doug]

So cool.

[Justin Andrews]

My.

[Corey]

My health journey started in March of 2023. I quit drinking heavily, but still wasn't feeling great. I was around 100 or around 280 pounds and I'm 5 9. I went to the doctor for TRT because I thought that was my issue and it was way low. It was like at 152. But I was also my A1C was in the diabetic range. So that's when I got serious and got a. Found a online coaching service that my doctor recommended. An online coaching service that just helped me create healthy, sustainable habits. And I started walking and intermittent fasting and dropped like 40 pounds doing that. And then I was still kind of like the same shape, just smaller. So that's when I got serious and I found another online coaching service that, that focused on building muscle and stuff like that and dropped another 40 pounds. Fell in love with lift. And I was following their programming at that time and all that, so. And then, yeah, my. My wife and kids started coming along with me and doing the same stuff. And I. I don't know. I haven't calculated how many pounds we lost in our family. I bet it's close to £200, so that's awesome. Anyway, so I kept cutting until August of 2024. Then it reversed and Gained about a half a pound. And I gained about a half pound a week until March of 25 since it had been in a slight cut but not really losing weight. I've followed maps since August 2024. I've done anabolic, strong power lift, and when I wrote in was doing symmetry, which is my favorite of any of your programs.

[Doug]

Love it. Awesome.

[Justin Andrews]

Nice.

[Corey]

So even after the reverse, I only got to about 2500 calories a day. I've installed eating 2, 000 calories a day, mostly whole foods, 180 grams to 200 grams of protein. And I was tracking with macro factor I've tracked since July of 2023. Part of me says even if I never get leaner, I'll keep going because everything else in my life has improved. But I'd still like to lose a fluff. I estimate my body fat at 25% and have broken past that. Is this what it looks like or is there a way to keep progressing? Is this a mental block metabolic thing? So since then, here's what I've done. I decided to take a break from tracking and transition to intuitive eating. I'm now averaging 2800 to 3000 calories a day, still focusing on protein, getting 180 to 200 grams daily and sticking to mostly whole foods except for some ice cream here and there. I put on a few pounds, but I feel amazing. My mindset freedom around, my mindset freedom around food and overall energy are all better without the constant focus on numbers. Also finished up Symmetry, which I absolutely loved. And I'm now I'm back in anabolic, restarting the cycle with fresh eyes. So what you got for me is this. I so chat. I put my photos into chat and it estimated my body fat at 20%. I'd like your input on that, but do I just keep staying the course or.

[Doug]

I would really love to hear. It'd be interesting because I. I think you made a great decision. Basically you kind of reverse dieted and you did it in an intuitive way and, and gave yourself some freedom. I would. That's what I would have said before you told us that's the direction you went. So I think that was a great decision. Be interesting to see where your body fat percentage went from those two. Like, like, did it. Did it decrease while also increasing calories? Because if it did, that was a home run situation. Like if you actually went from 2, 000 calories from like a small cut you were doing, went to intuitive eating, had a bunch of freedom around food, actually jumped Your calories up to 2800 and you didn't get fatter. That's a big. That's, that's a win. If you actually lost any even 1% of body fat, Huge win. So. And if that's the case, and you think you. You got. You improved during that time, that means you're. You're more likely heading in the right direction of what your body wants and needs right now.

[Adam Schafer]

Corey, let me ask you, how's your A1C now? How's your other blood markers? Everything improve A lot.

[Corey]

So I haven't tested my A1. I haven't tested my blood markers in six months. But, yeah, I mean, everything's in healthy levels. I tried to for a while.

[Justin Andrews]

You're looking great, man.

[Doug]

Your pictures are popping up right now.

[Adam Schafer]

For the first time. You're not 25, bro.

[Doug]

You're doing great.

[Adam Schafer]

All right, listen, listen. I'm gonna tell you this, which I usually don't. Which typically I don't say, don't change anything.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, you're on point.

[Adam Schafer]

No, no, you're on point. But I'll give you a little bit of advice, okay? Make health the priority, which is what you've been doing. Stay the course on that. Don't worry about the mirror. Don't worry about body fat percentage, because if you keep getting healthier, which is what you're doing, that mirror, that reflection will continue to change to look healthier. So don't even look at it, because the second you take your eye off health and you start to focus on the mirror, it's gonna throw. It's gonna. It's gonna put a big wrench in this whole machine.

[Doug]

Yeah, yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

So stay on health. Stay on health. Mobility, strength, how I feel energy, blood markers. Do I feel good? You did the right thing with your diet, by the way, because here's what you did. I'll paraphrase it. I was tracking. The tracking felt unhealthy, so I stopped tracking. So what you're doing is exactly what you need to keep doing. Just stay like that.

[Doug]

I actually think. I think you're probably right around, if not in the Goldilocks zone, where you are having this beautiful exchange of. You're building a little bit of muscle, you're losing a little bit body fat. And it. But the mental of that, because you're not seeing radical change from all the hard work you're doing that gets to clients. They go, I know I'm putting in the work in. I know I'm making good food choices, but I don't Feel like my body's moving fast enough. But the reality is you're actually in the most beautiful spot you can be. But psychologically, I get it. It's. It's. We've all been there, and it's the mind. But I'm telling you right now, from an outsider looking in, huge success. Huge success.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Your transformation is incredible. And you look great.

[Adam Schafer]

And you're gonna keep. You're gonna keep progressing.

[Doug]

Yeah, you're gonna keep.

[Adam Schafer]

So long as you keep health at the center. The second it becomes appearance focused, it's gonna. It's gonna be. It's gonna. It's gonna mess up the whole.

[Doug]

But it's coming. Dude, bro, you look great.

[Adam Schafer]

That's what I'm trying to say.

[Doug]

Yeah, you look great. You've made a radical change. And it's only. I mean, just keep having fun with the workouts, bro. Keep enjoying the maps program and getting strong and eating the way you're eating, like, you're in a really, really good place.

[Adam Schafer]

And if you just keep thinking to yourself, like, okay, am I being healthy? Do I feel better? Let that be the compass and follow that and you're. And then the mirror will follow. It's going to follow. The way you look is going to continue to improve. Move. Yeah, but keep. And you did. You're doing a great job. I love the fact that you. I love why you stopped tracking.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Like, tracking can be good or bad. But the. The reason you said why you stopped is exactly why somebody should stop is because you're trying to make yourself healthy.

[Doug]

And look how well it served you. It served you perfectly. I mean, this is. You're in. You're in a good spot.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Doug]

You're doing great. Calorie intake right now. The balance. It sounds like you got nutrition. Keep prioritizing that protein, keep lifting those weights and get. Trying to get strong. And you're absolutely on the right track, dude.

[Corey]

Awesome.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. You know, again, just to give you, like, just to put things in perspective, you were on a fast track to diabetes, you were on a fast track to heart disease. You were on a fast track towards a lot of things you have. You are on a completely different path now. Yeah, completely. So, yeah, don't change anything, man.

[Doug]

Maybe one thing a little bit advice that might be good for you just to. Just to help with the mental battle. I think it'd be worth actually going and getting one of those, like, body fat tests. And then don't check it for six months. Like, literally just get it done. Have go to. We can't even think of some of the names of the ones that they have that do the, like, underwater weighing. Well, yeah, that would be great. Or Dexa. Thank you. Yeah. Dex says, bipod, go get a good one. Done. And just so you have a baseline, and then just put it aside, keep doing what you're doing for six months, come back six months later, and just.

[Adam Schafer]

Just like some check.

[Doug]

Check up on yourself. Yeah.

[Corey]

You know, so I've done. I've had three DEXA scans done. Last one was in the first part of 24, and it pissed me off, so I quit doing it.

[Adam Schafer]

No, that's fine.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, you can refer to it later.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, that's fine. You know, here's the deal about body fat percentage, okay? It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if you're healthy and you feel good. And then also, also, even for how you look body, I'll talk about extreme aesthetic, focused sport bodybuilding. Bodybuilders mess this up. They get so caught up on the body fat percentage that they go on stage, they look like crap. And the guy with higher body fat, quote, unquote percentage, actually beats them. So it really. It doesn't matter. Unless it's way out of control. But you're fine.

[Doug]

No. And the reason why I suggest, or I like it, is because it gives somebody like me really, really good. Like, let's say you did that, and let's just say for. Let's play it out. Worst case scenario, it comes back and you're not happy with the results. You stayed the same body fat percentage, or maybe you even went up 1% and you did all this work. It will tell me a lot about a lot of the things that you were potentially doing that you thought were ideal for you, that I can adjust and do differently. What happens with a guy like you who's doing a lot of the right things and the DEXA scan doesn't come out. You were actually probably cutting too much. You were probably. That's exactly what happened. And so looking back, that's what I was 100. 100. I know that's what happened to you, because I could tell by the. What you're doing all the time. You were too low a calorie. And what you did was you lost weight, but you also lost muscle. And so then the DEXA scan gives you kind of a result because, you know, you did all this great work and all. But that's good information. It's not like a bad thing. It's just like, oh, wow, I don't need to restrict my calories this much. In fact, my body's trying to tell me that it will. I'll do better. And you did the right thing by pumping them up. And then I bet you money you'll see a more positive result. And. And so that's why I like. I like it for that reason. Sounds right. It doesn't mean whatever. But when you. When you're doing all the things you're doing and you're just kind of checking in every six months, it could really tell a coach like myself a lot about, oh, like, yeah, you did a lot of right things. But the thing that we could have done is we could have fed you a lot more than what we did. And that's why we saw what we saw. You know, that's exactly probably what happened. You know what?

[Corey]

I'm gonna book another one. It's time.

[Doug]

Yeah. And just listen. Approach it not as a. A. Like a competition with yourself. I. I need to be a certain. It's like, this is just data. I'm just collecting some data right now because let me tell you, been doing this for a long time, and I still get DEXA scans that I'm pissed where I'm like, what the. Okay, so that'll never end, bro. That'll. You'll. You'll. But that's. Every time you do it, it's. It's giving you more and more insight on the variables that you're changing, and you'll just sharpen. You'll get sharper and sharper about how you do that. So. Yeah. But treat it like one of the.

[Corey]

One of the things that I'm trying to do is. Is that recognize the small things. Like this morning, my wife and I went and took a walk, get back, take a shower, and I'm bending over to tie my shoes, and I just start laughing. I'm like, you know what? It is so cool to be able to bend over and tie my shoes. Conversation with you and keep breathing.

[Justin Andrews]

Like, recognize it. It's awesome.

[Doug]

Yeah, you're doing. Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. God bless.

[Doug]

Considering you don't have a coach who's taking you through this whole process, you. You're doing all the right, right things, bro. You're doing really good.

[Corey]

So I've had a coach up until about. About the time that I started doing intuitive eating, and it just. Bless their hearts. They don't have the same view of the world that you guys do. So I think I'm better off just listening to the podcast.

[Doug]

You. I mean, you are.

[Corey]

Maybe I'll do One of your coaching services at some point.

[Doug]

I was gonna say, if you ever consider doing that. We do have coaches underneath us now that. That all 100 are behind our philosophy. But you're doing great. You do. I don't think you need anything right now, but if you ever wanted to turn it up or take it to the next level, you absolutely could reach out. We'll take care of you. Yeah, I actually.

[Corey]

I've had a conversation with Kyle and he's like, well, do you want to do the. Do you want to build muscle or lose body fat? I'm like, I don't know. He's like, well, why are we talking? It was cool.

[Adam Schafer]

All right, man.

[Doug]

Good stuff, Corey. Right on, man.

[Corey]

Okay, thank you, guys.

[Adam Schafer]

Take it easy, brother. What a success story.

[Doug]

Yeah. What a great success story. So glad he had sent the pictures in.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, you know, it's also good for people to hear this because the whole second guessing thing, it just gets. Screws people up. It's like, I'm doing great, and then I'm gonna second guess, second guess, second guess. And I do think it's important on a regular basis to reflect, reflect, reflect.

[Justin Andrews]

Because you need outside eyes.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. And then you see, like. Oh, yeah, like he just said, that was a big, big deal. People don't realize that, like, bend over to tie your shoes. Yeah. You know, we take that for granted. And so it's a wonderful realization.

[Doug]

I want to point out something that happens to a majority of people, and there's so many people this happens to that get that DEXA scan and it comes back bad. Did that. He didn't move anybody. It didn't. Didn't do well at all after he had just done six months or a year of dieting and training. That will just take somebody and they're done. Like, why, why, why all this work?

[Adam Schafer]

Even though they had all this other improvement, all this.

[Doug]

And so, so, you know, kudos to him to still have the willpower, the discipline to keep moving forward after all the hard work and then seeing a negative result on the Dex camp. But I can't tell you how common this is. And. And I'm glad that he knew right away what it was. It was like, this happens a lot where people cut too hard, too fast, and they lose fat, they loot, the scale goes down. So they think they're doing such a great job, but what happened was, was they cut too hard and fast and they lost just as much muscle. And then that on the DEXA scan does not report back. Good news to you. And then all of a sudden, you just throw out everything because you're like, oh, it. But it's like, no, no, this is. This is good information.

[Adam Schafer]

In fact, he said it. Is it my metabolism. Your metabolism is good, bro. You're healthy.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Our next caller is Robert from Maryland.

[Adam Schafer]

What's up, Robert?

[Doug]

What's going on, Robert?

[Justin Andrews]

What's happening?

[Robert]

Hey, what's going on, guys?

[Adam Schafer]

How you doing?

[Doug]

Good, Good. How you doing? Good.

[Justin Andrews]

Good.

[Robert]

Got two questions for you.

[Doug]

All right, well, first of all, well.

[Robert]

Thank you for everything that you put out, all the content, all the free information that you put out.

[Doug]

It's.

[Robert]

It's been helpful to me. I've tried to pass it along to a lot of other people that I know. It's really provided a lot of more knowledge to me than I thought I've known, and I've been trading for 32 years, so thank you.

[Doug]

Love that. Right on, man.

[Robert]

My question is, when I do pull ups on an overhand or even a neutral grip, I've developed an issue on my left forearm, just about the elbow to halfway down the forearm to where when I do pull ups, it hurts. When I do pull downs, it does irritate. And even just recently, when I've done alternating dumbbell upright rows, it starts to irritate my left forearm. I've tried a couple different things to alleviate it. I stayed away from those exercises to have it not irritate. And my second question is my right shoulder starts to hurt when I do a bench press, incline bench, overhead press. I've moved away from barbell work, and I've gone to dumbbell work, which seems to help with any kind of those issues.

[Adam Schafer]

Where's the shoulder pain? Let's start there. Where's it hurt? In front of the shoulder.

[Robert]

On the lateral head.

[Adam Schafer]

On the lateral head. All right, so probably a rotate. Probably an issue with your. With your stabilizers. Infraspinatus supraspinatus. Maybe a little bit of an impingement issue. The forearm is the brachioradialis likely. So at the top of the forearm right here, which. Which does a little bit of pronating and supinating. Okay, so now that we know what the muscles are, why are they keep. Why are they hurting, and why do they keep hurting? Typically, it's because somebody's doing too much. So let's talk about your routine, your workout program. What does that look like?

[Robert]

Well, I've. I know that for pull ups, I was doing. I started doing pull ups late last year for the first time regularly. And I started out at one and I built up to seven, but then of course the, the problem developed, so I had to stop.

[Doug]

What about the team?

[Robert]

Right now just did two weeks of the Maps 15. So I jumped out of the aesthetic, two weeks of Maps 15, and now jumped back into phase three of aesthetic. But I've lowered the volume as far as sets.

[Adam Schafer]

How long have you been before aesthetic? What'd you do?

[Robert]

I did maps 15.

[Adam Schafer]

For how long? For the whole program. Okay. You're going to probably need to stay in something a little longer. And I would suggest to see a physical therapist. They're the best with correctional exercise. So I would suggest seeing them to get some correctional exercise and then giving yourself a longer period of time of deload. Okay. These sound like overuse type issues and you need to develop some stability in your shoulder to kind of get rid of that. But if you keep going back to high volume training, training is going to be very difficult.

[Doug]

Yeah, we, I do want to, I do want to give you Prime Pro because the movements, more like most likely your therapist is going to do with you are going to come from there. The most valuable thing that you're going to get from going to see a therapist, because I think you could actually we could get to the bottom of this by Prime Pro and Prime.

[Adam Schafer]

I mean, it's common.

[Doug]

What you're saying is very common. And I definitely think we could get to the bottom of this. But the value of the therapist is to have a professional next to you, watching you move with intent and queuing you live and going like, oh, no, see right there. Were you, were you sure to roll that shoulder around? I want you to depress that and like that way they can see you in real time. Cue your body and then, you know, okay, then you could take the knowledge that you're getting from the therapist and apply a lot of the stuff that we have in Prime Pro. So I think it's worth at least a visit to go at least figuring.

[Justin Andrews]

Out your range and, and where, you know, some of those, the deficits lie and how we can kind of like get to that point of stress and then we back off. So it really building up strength, support and stability around these joints is going to help quite simply.

[Adam Schafer]

So like for your shoulder, you know what I would do with you is we would. We before we do a set is I would really press down hard on the trap. You know, all the way up and down the trap. I put a lot of pressure there. It's going to hurt. Get it to release a Little bit. Then we'd go light with the shoulder press, but we'd focus on scapular depression because it's probably happening is there's a little. Little dysfunction with the scapula and the humerus. It's just causing some impingement.

[Doug]

Wall circles.

[Adam Schafer]

And then we would do some mobility stuff like. Wall circles.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

And then same thing. And then with the forearm, we would also do some myofascial release. And then we would also work on, you know, wrist and finger mobility fingers. If you want the best. Best. If you want the best correctional exercise. Are you in our forum?

[Robert]

I'm not.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay, I'm gonna put you in our forum. I want you to tag Dr. Justin Brink, and then I want you to work with him now. He's. I. I don't. Okay, I see where you're located. He's in. Where, Utah?

[Doug]

No, he's Idaho.

[Adam Schafer]

Idaho.

[Doug]

Sorry. Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

He can work with you virtually as well.

[Doug]

Yeah, he does remote.

[Adam Schafer]

He'll work with you virtually. He's the best correctional exercise specialist hands down.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Period. End of story. Yeah, Tag him once you get in the forum and set up some appointments with him, and he'll fix you like that. Guy's a genius when it comes to this kind of stuff.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Robert]

I'm on the wait list for my physical therapist now, and it's been about two weeks, and they said it might be about a month, but I am on the wait list for them, so.

[Adam Schafer]

Dr. Brink is gonna cost money, but he's the best. There's nobody. I've ever. I've never. I've worked with physical therapists, and by the way, physical therapists are amazing. I love them. I've never known anybody as good as Dr. Brink. Yeah, he's a. He's a. He's a wizard.

[Justin Andrews]

He's been special.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, like. Like one. One or two sessions virtually, and you'll get to the bottom.

[Doug]

I'm gonna have Doug send you over our prime pro, because there's stuff in there that you can practice and do yourself. That'd be good. And you're. You're gonna focus on all the. The wrist and shoulder stuff. That's the main thing you're going to focus on. And then get in. We'll put you in the private forum and then post. Basically post and tag Dr. Brink.

[Adam Schafer]

And so it's Justin Brink.

[Doug]

Yep. And he'll get on it right away.

[Adam Schafer]

Yep. Yep. He's the man with that kind of stuff.

[Doug]

And then whenever it's our people, too, he tends to put you to the front of the line.

[Adam Schafer]

And just so you know, the two things that you mentioned are super common.

[Justin Andrews]

Yep.

[Adam Schafer]

So I've worked with. I've had so many clients with those exact same issues. We fix, it never comes back. So it's not a big deal. Okay.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Yep.

[Doug]

We got this. We'll fix this for sure.

[Robert]

Well, thank you for your advice and everything you do. And don't worry about sending it to me.

[Adam Schafer]

I'll go on.

[Robert]

I support you guys. I'll go on up and I'll pick it up.

[Doug]

It's not a problem.

[Robert]

Give it somebody else that maybe has a more difficult time.

[Justin Andrews]

You've already got it.

[Doug]

We already sent it to you.

[Adam Schafer]

Don't worry. You're gonna have to spend money on Dr. Brink, so I just think you're. Yeah, yeah. But we'll send it to you anyway. Already sent it to you.

[Doug]

I already sent it to you, brother.

[Robert]

Oh, thank you.

[Doug]

Thank you.

[Robert]

I appreciate it.

[Adam Schafer]

You got it, my friend.

[Doug]

All right, man.

[Adam Schafer]

Common.

[Doug]

Yeah. Oh, very, very common. Very, very.

[Adam Schafer]

I mean. I mean, literally.

[Justin Andrews]

So the problem is, did he mention what he does for a living? I kept trying to think about that, too, in terms of overuse. Like, yeah, he's doing a lot of those patterns.

[Adam Schafer]

I mean, literally, what it look. What it would look like with a client, because that was common. Smash down. It would take me, like, 10 minutes. Then I'd have them with no weight, lift their arm up, but I depress the scapula while they're moving up. And right then I'd have them tilt their neck to stretch.

[Justin Andrews]

The pretty obvious compensations.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. And then you'd suddenly, like, no more pain, but then it would. Then you need to do correctional exercise afterwards.

[Doug]

Yep.

[Sal DeStefano]

Our next caller is Sam from France.

[Adam Schafer]

Hey, welcome back.

[Doug]

How you doing, Sam?

[Justin Andrews]

What's up, buddy?

[Sam]

Hi, guys. How are you?

[Doug]

Good, good, good.

[Adam Schafer]

How can we help you?

[Sam]

Yeah, can you hear me okay?

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, we got you.

[Justin Andrews]

Huh?

[Sam]

Okay, well, about three months ago, you. You gave me a challenge to stop tracking food and stuff. So I'm here for the update, I guess.

[Adam Schafer]

How'd it go?

[Sam]

I did it so I didn't stumble or revert back to what I was comfortable with. I have to say, it wasn't always easy in some sense, but if there's someone that was in my position that tracked for months or years on end, I want to tell him that or her that just. Even though I don't have the same influence as you guys have on me to take a break, and I, too, was reluctant because I didn't Want to lose performance or gains or get fat or lose muscle, but it's not that, that deep. And I understood that it was for the better. And since I was pretty much addicted to tracking and seeing my body change, I can tell you that I didn't lose anything and that I became much healthier. I guess that's the. Even though that's a bit. Yeah, that's not, that doesn't say as much. But I gained muscle actually and performance and it was as a byproduct to focus on being healthier and focusing on my sleep. And I'm not some genetic freak or some athlete child or something like that. I'm a normal guy that just likes to lift weights and that went from hating some part of my body to changing it and to wanting to take care of ourselves. So I can thank you for that. And as for the specifics, at the beginning, I cheated a little. So I just ate the same as I ate before, but predictable after a few weeks. Yeah, but I didn't binge or anything. I just like, yeah, it was like cheating in a sense because that's not real life.

[Doug]

You already knew the calories and.

[Sam]

But I have to say, before you gave me this challenge, what I did was I, I used to, when I had something on my plate, I had to finish it. You know, I heard a lot it, A lot of on the podcast, like this bad habit, like you have to finish your plate and everything. It's not from my parents or anything because they, they are not like that. But I had this, this, this thing in mind that I, I had to finish my plate and stuff like that. So now I don't have a problem to like talk about it for the next day or something like that. I experimented more with fasting and even though I still thought a lot about food and what I was going to eat next, even right after a meal, I tried to listen to my body more and I never slept better. I don't know if it's the change in programming or the less stress about food or stuff like that, but really sleep was always a weak point of mine. I always gave myself nine hours in bed, but I couldn't sleep more than seven and a half. And now I get more than eight, eight, eight and a half. So it's like really life changing in a sense. I tracked sleep, as I said, I tracked steps a little, but I was also less obsessive on steps beforehand. I had to like, I checked my Fitbit just like that, every, every few seconds. And now I just get My steps, I stay active and I try to move a little to just stay healthy and stuff. And I won't say it was always easy, as I said, because I'm reading off my notes right now because I had to write it to get a clear picture of what I had to go through. But I still have problems with the way I look at myself and my self esteem. That's like I related to my leanness, how my abs pop, how my. How do I have love and stuff like that. And even though objectively I'm not fat, it's always like a weak point of mine. But with the help I got, you're of course, you guys. I don't know if you realize that. I guess you do because of all the colors. But the influence you have on young men like me and young woman, that can't be understated. I think you, you. I don't know if you do realize how much of an influencer how better you make our lives feel. And from your thanks to your accountability and help from my family and friends, I realized that I wasn't my body and I deserve to be loved and to love myself and taking care of myself in a trust sense like trying to. To live what I preach because I want to become eventually someone that helps people to do the same stuff I am doing right now and help others with their physical body and their mental health and stuff like that. Just feel love and careful from myself first in the first place and then from others. That's really made an impact in my life. So I don't know if I can thank you enough.

[Adam Schafer]

Wow.

[Doug]

Wow. Thank you. Sam.

[Adam Schafer]

Sam, Good job, my friend. Yeah, good job, man. That's great. Most attractive thing about you is your confidence now. How do you feel mentally? You must feel so different.

[Sam]

Yeah, it was, it was. Actually, I don't know if I think it was because of your influence because it just dropped. I dropped the tracking. I did not open pat secret ever since I didn't look at the back of the labels. I just ate. Like at the beginning it was not intuitive because I was doing the same thing. But then in the last few weeks I just experimented with some other foods. I experimented with less, more fat, less carbs, stuff like that. I just listen to my body, what it told me and I'm trying to. Yeah to, you know, I'm listening to your most recent episodes and it's like so different from the, you know, I'm at the 300, 350 range right now, you know, of your episodes. It's like, so different, you guys. You're really different, but you're really much the same in a sense. You know, it's not easy to. Yeah. It was more about fasting and less protein at the time, and I'm very happy I got to witness all of that. And to go even more in the. Yeah. Because even in the 350 range, you were still, like, trying to censor a bit yourself to not to appear too harsh. And I heard that the really first ones were really, like. Yeah. Really bad. So I can't wait to listen to those ones.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Sam]

But really, it's interesting because I get to see your perspective from 10 years ago and now your perspective right now with faith, with religion, with relationship. Sorry. To your body and to food. So being confident and. Yeah. Knowing that it's, like, supposed to help and improve my life and not, like, take away from it. That's. Yeah. That if I didn't discover you, and I don't know how I discovered you guys, if I didn't, I think I would still be, like, going to failure seven days a week and not eating enough. And, you know, it would.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Sam]

Maybe eventually I would have found the truth, but maybe I would have burned out or enjoyed myself. So I. Yeah, you guys have, you know, in a true sense.

[Adam Schafer]

Thank you. That's very encouraging. It's a journey. It's a journey. Sam.

[Doug]

Doing great, bro.

[Adam Schafer]

It's a journey for all of us.

[Doug]

Doing so good.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. I appreciate you coming back on, man. That's gonna. That's gonna help a lot of people.

[Doug]

Yes.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, I love that story.

[Sam]

I hope so. Do you have a small. Yeah. A minute to.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes.

[Sam]

Another question. Yeah, so I'm. So, as I said, I want to become, like, a coach or a personal trainer, and I'm going to change degrees in a few months. And in this degree, it's like the French. I have to do, like two or three years to have the accreditation to become a personal trainer. And in this degree, I'm going to do about three to four hours of, like, endurance sports and stuff like that, and maybe a bit of explosive stuff. So I wanted to ask you if you would think I'd need to change my programming. I'm doing symmetry right now, and if I should do performance or performance 15, performance advanced or stuff like that. I don't know.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, let's. I'm going to send you all three because you're in school right now, and it's going to be good for you to learn from them. Them.

[Sam]

Yeah, it's really kind of You. But I already have them.

[Adam Schafer]

Ah, good man. Yes. I think they're all valuable, definitely. So start with, start with maps Performance and then go into Maps 15 Performance and then Maps 15. Advanced is going to teach you a lot about, you know, really training athletes.

[Sam]

Okay, so performance then performance 15 and then performance advance.

[Adam Schafer]

Yep.

[Doug]

When, when, when are you gonna, when are you. Because you said you're going to be starting to be doing. Are you going to be doing like endurance? What are you doing?

[Adam Schafer]

This is for his education.

[Doug]

No, he's actually going to be doing physical activity.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, I think it's for his education.

[Sam]

So in the curriculum we have two different courses. One is going to be in the first semester athleticism, so it's like 100 meter run and 1k. And the other is I think team sports. And then in the second semester I'm going to have strength training so that I already know about. And again, athletism. No, not athletes. I'm sorry, what do the, the guys with the rings do again? I don't remember.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, gymnastics.

[Sam]

Gymnastics, right. Yeah, that's right.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. No, that's great.

[Doug]

Yeah, you're good.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, you're good, dude.

[Doug]

Yep. Yep.

[Justin Andrews]

That's a cool course.

[Doug]

Yeah, very cool course. Keep, keep us updated, Sam. And then when the time comes, get you inside of our course to help you for becoming a personal trainer, maybe you'll become.

[Sam]

I'm already in it.

[Doug]

You're already in it.

[Adam Schafer]

We, we do, we need.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, representation.

[Adam Schafer]

I said we need international trainers. So when you're done, give us a call.

[Justin Andrews]

You'd be our mind pump France.

[Sam]

Oh man, I would so much like to do that.

[Doug]

Yeah, well, stay about that.

[Sam]

Do you have any resources that I could follow? Some Instagram accounts that I already follow, your friend Jordan Sayat and, and people like that, but I don't know if you have any more.

[Adam Schafer]

We have a trainer one.

[Sam]

Good.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Mind pump trainers.

[Adam Schafer]

Mind pump trainers.

[Doug]

Yeah. Mind pump trainers that I do follow. You're good, bro. Go enjoy your class, learn a lot, have fun. You're on the right track.

[Adam Schafer]

Good job, dude.

[Doug]

Yep. Stay, stay close to us. Keep us updated. All right. Appreciate that.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, man.

[Sam]

Thank you guys. Have a great day.

[Adam Schafer]

You got it.

[Justin Andrews]

Great job.

[Adam Schafer]

So, so that I didn't realize that. So it sounds like in France he said it's a two year degree to become a personal trainer like that and it sounds like they put you through like you actually have to go and compete.

[Doug]

It's awesome.

[Justin Andrews]

Cool little curriculum.

[Adam Schafer]

Very interesting. Awesome. Yeah, I'm very interested in seeing what that looks like what great feedback. Yeah, he's doing a great job. I love it. He feels free. You can tell. I remember him.

[Justin Andrews]

Give him more sleep too. As a result.

[Adam Schafer]

I remember that first call. You could tell he was like. He was pained, you know, and anxious over the whole time. Totally different. It's amazing. Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. Justin is mindpumpjustin I'm mindpump Distephano and Adam's mindpump.

[Sal DeStefano]

Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB super [e-mail] the RGB Super Bundle includes Maps, Anabolic Maps, Performance and Maps Aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos. The RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee and you can get it now. Plus other valuable free [e-mail] if you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review on itunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is Mind Pump.

[Adam Schafer]

Shopify helps you sell at every stage of your business.

[Doug]

Like that.

[Adam Schafer]

Let's put it online and and see what happens.

[Doug]

Stage and the site is live that.

[Adam Schafer]

We opened a store and need a fast checkout. Stage thanks. You're all set that count it up and ship it around the globe Stage.

[Doug]

This one's going to Thailand and that.

[Adam Schafer]

Wait did we just hit a million orders? Stage Whatever your stage businesses that grow grow with Shopify. Sign up for your $1 a month [e-mail] listen.