2653: Ten Ways to Dramatically Improve Workout Consistency & More (Listener Coaching)

Summary

Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - Episode 2653 Summary

Release Date: August 1, 2025

In Episode 2653 of Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth, hosts Sal Di Stefano, Adam Schafer, Justin Andrews, and Doug Egge delve deep into strategies for enhancing workout consistency—a common hurdle many face in their fitness journeys. The episode not only outlines ten evidence-based methods to maintain regular exercise routines but also addresses listener questions, providing personalized coaching insights. Below is a comprehensive overview of the key discussions, insights, and conclusions from the episode.

---

1. The Challenge of Consistency

Sal DeStefano kicks off the conversation by highlighting that consistency often trumps the quality of workouts. He emphasizes:

"A subpar workout done consistently will outperform an amazing workout done inconsistently. Consistency is the biggest challenge people face when it comes to their fitness."
[02:24]

Justin Andrews concurs, noting the dual challenges of maintaining consistency and ensuring workout quality:

"If you could just get anybody consistent, anything is going to work better than the best thing done inconsistently."
[02:25]

2. Ten Strategies to Improve Workout Consistency

The hosts outline ten actionable strategies, each backed by data and their extensive industry experience:

a. Habit Stacking

Sal introduces the concept of habit stacking—pairing a new habit with an existing one to enhance adherence.

"Habit stacking is when you combine a new habit with an old habit that you've already done on a regular basis."
[03:15]

Example: Integrating a 5-10 minute walk after meals can increase overall activity and improve insulin sensitivity.

b. Start Small

Justin shares his evolution from pushing clients to commit to three workouts a week to encouraging smaller, manageable goals.

"I had so much more success... committing to something smaller and stacking those wins and then building on it."
[05:03]

This approach reduces the psychological barrier of daunting workout schedules, fostering long-term consistency.

c. Positive Reinforcement

Sal emphasizes rewarding oneself to encourage consistent behavior.

"If I make every workout this week, then on Saturday I'm going to get my nails done... that's positive reinforcement."
[13:22]

Justin adds that positive reinforcement is more sustainable than negative reinforcement, which can lead to resentment over time.

d. Design a Friction-Free Environment

Justin recounts nearly skipping a workout due to missing gear, illustrating how minimal friction can sustain consistency.

"I packed my gym bag with my headphones... it's crazy how powerful a little tip like that can be."
[16:32]

Setting up workout essentials in advance removes excuses and barriers to exercise.

e. Track Your Progress Visually

Sal suggests using calendars or journals to mark workout days, providing a visual representation of consistency.

"Every day, you can look at it and see all the workouts stacking up... visual progress trackers make a difference."
[17:52]

Justin echoes this, highlighting how simple logs can motivate through visual achievements.

f. Leverage Social Accountability

Sal's wife exemplifies social accountability by creating a text thread with friends to encourage each other's fitness goals.

"Social accountability... makes the biggest differences for people moving from inconsistent to consistent."
[19:34]

Justin relates this to personal integrity, where commitment to others reinforces personal discipline.

g. Reframe Your Mindset

Sal advocates for a positive mindset shift—from seeing workouts as punishment to viewing them as self-care.

"No, I don't want that pizza" versus "No, thanks, I don't want that pizza."
[22:53]

Justin adds that this reframing prevents rebellion against self-imposed restrictions, fostering a healthier relationship with fitness.

h. Plan for Obstacles

Justin shares personal strategies for handling days with low motivation, such as committing to minimal workouts.

"Just go do three sets of squats... at least I did something instead of nothing."
[25:09]

Having contingency plans ensures workouts continue despite unforeseen challenges.

i. Change Your Identity

Sal and Justin discuss adopting a fitness-centric identity, which inherently prioritizes and sustains consistent behavior.

"I am someone who prioritizes fitness."
[26:50]

This self-identification aligns daily actions with long-term fitness goals.

j. Incorporate Mindfulness During Workouts

In addressing listener questions, the hosts explore how to utilize rest periods effectively without distractions like smartphones.

"Listen to music, visualize the next set, or simply be present."
[61:25]

Justin encourages treating rest periods as opportunities for mental relaxation and creative thinking, akin to meditation.

3. Listener Coaching and Q&A

The latter part of the episode features listener questions, with the hosts providing expert advice:

a. Arnold Presses Debate

Listener Question: Are Arnold presses a terrible movement?

Sal defends the exercise, explaining its benefits:

"The rotational movement allows for a deeper range of motion, contributing to better muscle growth and shoulder stability."
[56:58]

Justin reinforces this stance, dismissing negative opinions as uninformed:

"If you can do it with good technique, it's going to contribute to healthier shoulders."
[58:50]

b. Ideal Mindset for Beginners

Listener Question: What is the ideal mindset for those starting their health and fitness journey?

Sal advocates for a growth mindset centered on self-care rather than self-punishment.

"Exercise is a form of self-care, and diet is nourishment for the body you live in."
[59:54]

Justin emphasizes process-oriented goals over outcome-focused ones, aligning daily actions with long-term health benefits.

c. Activities During Long Rest Periods

Listener Question: What can one do during long rest periods to avoid phone usage?

Sal and Justin suggest engaging in activities like reading, writing, or visualizing the next set, turning rest times into productive or contemplative moments.

"A good workout includes mental preparation during rest periods."
[63:29]

4. Additional Insights and Discussions

Beyond the primary focus on consistency, the hosts touch upon various relevant topics:

• Diet and Protein Intake: Sal shares insights on switching to grass-fed or pasture-raised meats to increase protein intake while reducing calories, enhancing muscle growth without additional effort.

  "Grass-fed meat is leaner and higher in protein. Pasture-raised chicken has 21% less fat."
  [28:55]

• Exercise and Mental Health: The hosts discuss studies linking even minimal daily exercise to significant reductions in depression, underscoring the mental health benefits of staying active.

  "As little as five to ten minutes of exercise a day showed a measurable reduction in depression."
  [42:50]

• Identity and Self-Perception: Personal anecdotes about reflecting on past self-images reveal the deep-seated nature of body perception and its impact on fitness motivation.

5. Conclusion

Episode 2653 of Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth serves as a comprehensive guide for individuals seeking to enhance their workout consistency. By blending scientific data with practical advice and personal experiences, the hosts provide actionable strategies that cater to various challenges faced in maintaining a regular fitness routine. Whether it's through habit stacking, positive reinforcement, or redefining one's identity, the episode equips listeners with the tools needed to foster sustainable and meaningful engagement with their health and fitness goals.

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Notable Quotes:

• "A subpar workout done consistently will outperform an amazing workout done inconsistently." — Sal DeStefano [02:24]
• "Habit stacking is when you combine a new habit with an old habit that you've already done on a regular basis." — Sal DeStefano [03:15]
• "If I make every workout this week, then on Saturday I'm going to get my nails done... that's positive reinforcement." — Sal DeStefano [13:22]
• "I am someone who prioritizes fitness." — Sal DeStefano [26:50]
• "As little as five to ten minutes of exercise a day showed a measurable reduction in depression." — Sal DeStefano [42:50]

This episode is a must-listen for anyone struggling with maintaining a consistent workout regimen, offering both motivation and practical solutions to overcome common obstacles.

Transcript

[Sal DeStefano]

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[Adam Schaefer]

If you want to pump your body and expand, there's only one place to go.

[Sal DeStefano]

Mind Pump Mind Pump with your hosts.

[Adam Schaefer]

Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer and Justin Andrews.

[Sal DeStefano]

You just found the most downloaded fitness, health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump, right? In today's episode we answered listeners questions. People wrote in @mindpump media on Instagram and we picked some questions. But this was after the intro. Today's intro was 53 minutes long. In the intro we talk about fitness, science, fat loss, muscle gain, current events and family life. It's a good time. By the way, this episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Butcherbox. They deliver grass fed meat, pasture raised chicken, pork, wild caught fish, all the good stuff to your door for great prices. Go check them out. Go to butcherbox.com mindpump on that link. You'll get $20 off your first box plus free chicken breast, ground beef or salmon included in every box for free for an entire year. This episode is also brought to you by Organifi. Today we talked about their green juice. You gotta go check it out. Head over to Organifi.com that's O R G A N-I F I.com mindpump use the code mindpump get 20% off. These are also the final hours for our July special. Maps split is half off and the Anabolic Metabolism bundle of workout programs also half off. Head over to mapsfitnessproducts.com and then use the code July50 for the discount back to the show. A subpar workout done consistently will outperform an amazing workout done inconsistently. Consistency is the biggest challenge people face when it comes to their fitness. It's a good thing. We've been training people for decades. We know how to fix this. Today we're going to talk about 10 behavior, habits, things you can do that have been shown in the data and in our experience to dramatically improve your consistency. Let's do it.

[Justin Andrews]

This is a good list.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yes, we good. Because I would say this is the number one challenge by far.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

For people.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, this is why this presents two different challenges. Like thinking back to the clientele is one to your point. If you could just get anybody consistent, anything is, is, is going to work better than, than the best thing done inconsistently.

[Sal DeStefano]

Right.

[Justin Andrews]

So then the other challenge this presents is when you actually do have somebody who does something really consistent, but it's like such a subpar program and you, you're. I'm so afraid of getting them to, to stop doing that and do something better.

[Sal DeStefano]

You want to mess up the kids?

[Justin Andrews]

I don't want to. Yeah. You don't want to mess low.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

And that, and that's kind of where you get people who fall in love with a modality of training and they don't want to let it go because they've, I mean, because if you do it really consistently, even the worst programming, you'll see some good results.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right.

[Justin Andrews]

Right.

[Sal DeStefano]

So long as you don't hurt yourself. Right. But when you look at the data, the vast majority of Americans have started or tried a workout program. Also, majority of Americans don't consistently work out. So the consistency is the big problem. If we can fix that, we could probably solve most people's fitness issues and health issues. So let's start with the first one again. These are all backed by data habit stacking. Habit stacking is when you combine a new habit with an old habit that you've already done on a regular basis. So what this might look like, we talk about this for example on the podcast all the time would be, let's say you're not exercising at all now and you want to improve your activity or increase your activity. You already eat breakfast, lunch and dinner. Why don't you combine a five or ten minute walk after breakfast, lunch and dinner? For many people, this dramatically increases activity. Placing it post meal also improves insulin sensitivity. It's actually more valuable when it's done post meal. But also you eat breakfast, lunch and dinner. So when you combine it with a habit that you're already doing, the data shows you're more likely to be consistent with it on a regular basis.

[Justin Andrews]

I mean, I like this even. And not to get ahead of ourselves with the second one because they kind of go hand in hand is like even starting off with like very small fitness goals of 10 push ups or you know, 20 body weight squats and pairing it with something you already Do I had a lot of success when I had clients that were really inconsistent, hadn't done anything like, you know, when you brush your teeth in the morning, do 20, 20 body weight squats. You know, every time you go by the refrigerator, do 10 push ups. Like in fact we used to do this thing where we would put stickers all over and just every time they walk by or see it. And so you do this. Yeah. So you make it really, really simple. It's you know, to be able to build consistency around it and then you, you build up from there, you know.

[Doug]

Yeah, I had people doing that in the shower, doing mobility drills and things. And really it's like I used to call it just ritualizing a lot of these things and then again. Yeah, it's just finding those things that you do consistently every single day already and then adding those with it. It's perfect.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. One thing I used to do is I would tell my clients before you watch tv, do you know, X exercise, not a hard workout, but just before you watch tv. Now nowadays with smartphones, it might look like something like this. Like hey, before you get on your phone to check social media, do 10 body weight squats. Yeah. And you'll find yourself throughout the day dramatically increasing your activity. And it's again the data shows is this helps with consistency. Next up, Adam mentioned this is just start small, very small and do it daily. Small doses daily are more likely to turn into a consistent habit than large infrequent doses. For example, give an example. You could do two 45 minute workouts a week or you could do 15 minutes a day. Right. You could do one 60 minute workout a week. Or you could do 10 minutes six days a week. The 10 minutes, six days a week routine, even though it's the same total volume. Right. Could be the same amount of exercises, reps, whatever. Because it's done a little bit every single day, it's more likely to be.

[Doug]

Done way more achievable that way it's.

[Sal DeStefano]

Way more achievable and it tends to turn into a habit that a lot.

[Doug]

Of this is like psychological games too. You can make excuses. Even if it's just an extended amount of time, more, another five minutes, it just seems too daunting to fit it in and so to.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Doug]

To shorten it.

[Justin Andrews]

This may have been the greatest mistake I made as an early trainer. I remember almost shaming people into working out at least three times a week.

[Sal DeStefano]

Right. Like a scheduled workout.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, like it need, like I, I was hell bent that you needed at Least three hours of working out. And even though that might be optimal. Yeah, it's not necessarily optimal or ideal for every person where they're currently at in their journey. And I didn't learn that till much later. And, you know, I found myself the first half of my career trying to convince people to do a minimum of three days a week or more. In the back half of my career, I would always talk people out of what they were saying they were already committed to. Meaning if someone said like, oh yeah, I can do three days a week, like, are you sure? You know, have you ever done three days a week consistently? Have you ever done one day a week or two days a week? And then I would, you know, commit to them, something smaller and tell them that we could always ramp up and build on that. I had so much more success doing that than I did when someone would say, I'm super motivated, I want to do six days a week, let's do it. And then we try doing it. And then the inevitable happens. They fall off. Off of that versus the other way. Committing them small and stacking those wins and then building on it.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's the one right there. That's what you just said it. So this is all behavior based. Right. So if you come out the G with this commitment that is large compared to what you're currently doing, you're not doing anything. So you're like, I'm going four days a week. Right. And you miss a workout or two, it feels like you failed. Even though you made it two days that week, you're like, oh my God, I'm already falling off versus I'm going to start one day a week. And you know, you'll be consistent. And then when you feel good about it, you add an extra day. It feels like a win. Yeah. And it's. It's that kind of reinforcement that those small wins that lead to consistency. When you start to feel like you fail, this is all the. Again, all the behavior data on this is very clear. When you have a lot of failures in front of you, you're more likely to quit versus feeling like you're winning.

[Doug]

We take on too big of goals. And a lot of times, even if you're successful initially with that and you're pushing all these things aside. And so now. So now I'm compromising what I would normally do during the day to try and really fit this in and make this happen. It inevitably you kind of build up this internal resentment. It's like, well, I can't do this. And now you know, I'm punishing myself by, by doing this, when in fact you could just, you know, do shortened mounts and you could still fit it all.

[Justin Andrews]

I also think there's a little bit of magic that happens here. That again, another thing I didn't see until afterwards, which is after training so many people for so long, you realize that one of the common mistakes that people make is they, they get when they're in that motivated state. Not only do they over commit on how much of something they're going to do, but then they also restrict and cut calories like dramatically. They go from, they do everything. Yeah. They go from eating terrible to all of a sudden limiting themselves to minimal calories, perfect, clean, and then also training the most amount of days they can. And ab, their body doesn't need that. In fact, I'd much rather them eat a little bit more. They don't need to push that hard. Them sending any signal that their body needs to build muscle is better than nothing. And so I think it works better metabolically for them to only train one or two days a week to start off too, because sometimes they dramatically cut too much. Yeah. So I have found it works for you better for you for that reason. Not just the consistency, because I think there's an argument to be made there too. But even metabolically, I think it tends to be more advantageous for someone to start.

[Sal DeStefano]

Your body can only, only adapt to so much stress. And what determines that is there's a lot of things, but one of them is your current level of fitness. So think of like going out in the sun to getting a tan. If you haven't been outside in a long time and you're really pale, if you spend too much time in the sun, you won't tan, you'll burn. This is what happens to your body with exercise. If you're doing nothing, the right dose is perfect. And it might be very little because you're currently doing nothing. So it's important you do the right dose. And more than the right dose is the wrong dose and actually produces worse results.

[Doug]

You get a bunch of freckles.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right. Next. By the way. You know, you mentioned something, Adam, with motivation we have a tendency. This is again human psychology. When we're in a motivated state of mind, we imagine ourselves to be in that motivated state of mind in the future. So when I'm motivated, it's hard for me to imagine myself being unmotivated a week or two from now or a year from now, which is inevitable. This is how I Feel. I feel right. This is how I'm going to feel. So I'm ready to do this.

[Doug]

It blinds you a bit.

[Sal DeStefano]

Right. But the challenge isn't being consistent when you're motivated. That's easy. The challenge is being consistent when you're unmotivated. So when you're motivated, try to place yourself in what it feels like to be unmotivated and then make your commitments based on that. How, what is a good commitment based off of? When I feel like I don't want to work out, not how I feel right now because this is going to eventually go away. Next up is to set process orientated goals, not result orientated. What does that mean? Result orientated is I'm going to lose 30 pounds. Process orientated is I'm going to have 10 workouts this month.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Or I'm going to have 10,000 steps a day or I'm going to hit 150 grams of protein a day. Now why is that important? Well, you could pressure the result and mess up the entire process and not get the good result. But if you pressure the process and the process is right, the result is inevitable. So pressuring the process is what gets the result. Don't be so focused on the results. Focus on the process that leads to the results and that's going to get you where you want.

[Justin Andrews]

This is such a powerful point because so many people don't understand how to read the data too that they're getting. They're getting meaning there's a lot of times when a client is so focused on the result and they wanted to see the scale go down, let's say and the scale didn't go down. But what they did was as a trainer, exactly what I wanted. They lost a pound of fat and they built a pound of muscle which they are in the, what we call the goldilocks zone. But they're disappointed because they didn't lose a pound on the scale. And so then they course correct, they abandon the process. And that, that happens a lot. So especially when you're, when you are so focused on the result and you don't even know how to read whether your results are good or bad. And then you're misguided and I can't tell you how often I've seen this with client. How many calls do we take that are like this?

[Doug]

So many.

[Justin Andrews]

How many times do we have to. We listen to somebody tell us what they've been doing and they go and so what am I doing wrong? You're not doing anything wrong.

[Sal DeStefano]

Everything is Great.

[Justin Andrews]

It's perfect. You're eating 500 more calories. You're doing less work, Your body's tightening up, you've gotten stronger. Like, what are you talking about? Well, because the scale hasn't gone down. Like, oh, that's what happens when you're so focused on the goal versus the process of what you're doing. And it's such a good point.

[Sal DeStefano]

The process leads to the results. So pressure that. Focus on that. Next up, positive reinforcement. So what does this look like? Looks like rewarding yourself. So I'll give you an example of how I would do this with some clients. So back in the day, I used to own a wellness studio which offered personal training, acupuncture. We had some skin care, hormone stuff, and massage therapy. And I had a few clients that said, if I am consistent this week or every week, I'm consistent. If I make it here two days a week and I walk every single day, I'm going to reward myself with a massage at the end of every week. Like, that's a good example. Now, you could reward yourself in a way that I don't think is beneficial. Like, if I work out every, you know, consistently this week, I'm going to have a box of donuts. But literally, you could. You could say this to yourself. Like, if I make every workout this week, then on Saturday I'm going to go out to dinner with my husband, or on Saturday, I'm going to get my nails done, or I'm going to do that thing that I really want to do. And this is called positive reinforcement. This is more effective than negative reinforcement. Negative reinforcement is effective, but only for a short period of time. After. After a while. Nobody likes to be reinforced negatively. Imagine working for a boss that only ever talked about all the things you were doing wrong initially. It makes you. Do you want to work harder? But eventually, like, I hate that person. I want to get out of it.

[Justin Andrews]

It's great that you went that direction, because the point I was going to say is that this reminds me of leading a team.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

And it took me a while to figure this out in leadership. Like, the. That positive affirmation and reinforcing good behaviors is. Is so much more powerful than pointing out bad behaviors or things they do wrong. And this is what this game is. You're leading yourself. You're trying to lead yourself through this journey. And one of the hacks is to reward yourself or have positive reinforcement to look at the things that are going well for you, not to focus on the things that maybe aren't going that great for you or that you're not even sure if it is or good or bad. So really focus on the wins and that positive reinforcement helps you keep going and stacking those wins.

[Sal DeStefano]

Totally. Next up is to design a friction free environment. All right, what does that look like? Well, set out your workout clothes the day before. Get your gym bag ready. Pick a time that is unlikely to get interrupted. Maybe you want to work out at noon, but you know that at noon, sometimes meetings go long, sometimes you get emails. And the only time you know, if I go to, if I go to the gym at 7am Nobody disturbs me because work doesn't start till 9amlike, that might be ideal for you because you're getting rid of friction. So oftentimes when you talk to people about their workouts and why it's not a diddy party, what gets in the way of their consistency is friction. It's, oh God, it took too long and I missed the time. I got a call from work, my kids, I picked him up for school and my son, he got sick or whatever. So you want to set your environment up in a way that's so friction free that it's not a problem, that those issues don't get in the way.

[Justin Andrews]

So this is a funny tip because right now, before we got on, I was telling you guys, I'm kicking back up my consistency. And yesterday I went to work out and realized that I didn't have my headphones with me. I didn't bring in different pair of sneakers. And I was, man, I can't tell you, I don't know if Doug saw me. I came in here probably 10. I was this close to talking myself out of the workout. I was.

[Sal DeStefano]

And just a little bit of friction.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, just because there's a little bit of friction. And. And I told myself, I do it now to make sure that didn't happen to me. Day last night, I packed my gym bag with my headphones and it was already set. And so like, it's crazy that how powerful a little tip like that can be, even for somebody who's been doing this as long as I have. It is because it's like, okay, I have no excuse the sneak the other pair of sneakers, my change of shirts in there, my headphones are in there. No friction. It's like, literally when I get done, it doesn't matter if there's people out there on phone calls. I can still put my head because that's what happened. The team is, we have our own obviously stereo system in here. But a lot of times our trainers are on calls, and I don't want to disrupt them. And so I got to remember to bring my headphones now. And so I almost didn't work out yesterday because of that.

[Doug]

And then today, old man advice, like, I just can't myself, dude. But I was having this conversation with my son because there's so much resistance in the morning, and he's like, so combative. And I'm like, you got to set yourself up. We got to get your clothes here. We got to have all these night before in place the night before. I've learned to do that. Of course, I learned way later on. And then trying to convey that it's difficult, but I wish I would have learned that earlier because, dude, it makes everything so much easier, more effective.

[Sal DeStefano]

It does. Next up. Again, this is backed by data. Some of this sounds silly, but the studies show it works. Track your progress visually. Now, this doesn't mean you take, you know, pictures of yourself to track progress. This literally means, and I'll give you an example, if you have a calendar at home and you X off the days that you work out and so you. Every day, you can look at it and you can see all the workouts stacking up for the week. Something like that, or a workout journal or something you can look at and see, oh, my God, I've gone seven weeks without missing a workout. Or I've hit 10,000 steps every day for 30 days in a row. It's also great when you miss one because you could start over and try and beat your. Your previous best. These visual progress trackers, and they have them on your phones now, there's a lot of them that you can. You can do on your phone. They actually make a difference.

[Justin Andrews]

The data shows, yeah, the best results I ever got is when I. When I logged my workouts. And I didn't overcomplicate it. I literally just logged them in my. In my notes, my Apple notes. I just log what I did. Now, where that really served me. Not only did you have that, like, thing I could refer back, like, oh, wow, that's. I've done 12 days in a row or done this. I actually could kind of peek back and see my volume. I'm like, okay, I see where I'm at, what I've been doing. Now is an appropriate time for me to add more. Or I go, I could go back in a week and go, oh, wow, I did a lot more this week than the previous week. Maybe that's why I'm feeling this way or not recovering the way. And so I. This is such a great one for consistency is to just log it and you don't have to overcompy it. It doesn't need to be like perfect.

[Sal DeStefano]

No, just something visual.

[Justin Andrews]

Yes. Something visuals that you can look back on it and it's, it's a, another thing, just pop. It's kind of like positive reinforcement too, because I'm going back. I'm like, oh, hell yeah. I've gotten 12 workouts in a row. We're doing good right now.

[Doug]

You're not always going to have somebody in your corner, you know, so to be able to refer. That's helpful.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Next up is to leverage social accountability. So I'll give you guys a simple example of this. Right. My wife right now is getting really consistent with her workouts. She works out alone, but she wanted some social accountability. So what she did is she created a text thread with a cousin and a friend. And in the text thread, all three of the women agreed to help each other be accountable. And it's a fitness thread. And it sounds silly, but this, by the way, makes one of the biggest differences. In fact, when you look at people who went from inconsistent to consistent, you ask them what was the thing that made the difference. Oftentimes it's that social accountability. It's the people at the gym that recognize me. It's the group that I belong to. Here's the most powerful. Hiring a trainer. Oftentimes the value of a trainer. Yes. They know what they're doing. They could train you properly, they can motivate you, they know how to talk you off the ledge when things don't go right, all that kind of stuff. But one of the values is that they're there waiting for you, you have an appointment and that social accountability makes a big difference for.

[Justin Andrews]

Do you think there's a type of person that this really lends itself? Well, because I think, right, because this was huge for me and I, and I've tried to unpack it before, like, man, why does that work so well for me? And I think it's because if, if you consider yourself a high integrity person where if I say I'm gonna do something.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, you let people down.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, I like that. Like some, some people, maybe that's not the, the most valuable thing or it's. Maybe it's not a high priority. It's a very high priority for me. Like I always want to be known as somebody who I say, I do what I say, I'm going to Do. I don't embellish. I don't. I tell the truth. Like, and so, because I care so much about that, me putting it out on social and saying I'm gonna. Which is why I've always been so hesitant to say what I'm gonna do on the podcasting with it. Because I know once I say that you gotta do it, I've gotta execute. Because to me, that's every. My word is everything. And if I say I'm gonna do something, I don't want to be known as a guy. Oh, yeah. He always, he talks a big talk. He always says he's gonna do those things. Like, no, no, no. I want to. I'd rather under. Under promise and then over deliver on what I'm gonna say. And so I think this works really well for people that might be like, nodding their head going like, oh, yeah, that's me. If you're that person, do it. This works really, really well. It served me when we, before we started this, and I knew I was going to go after a big goal with getting in the best shape of my life when we. When I documented on Instagram, I came out and said it social. I'm like, okay, I put it on the Internet. Now I have to do it. That was a massive accountability piece.

[Doug]

Surround yourself with friends that can tell you look fat in those jeans.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, that's what I do, kind of. Next up is to reframe your mindset. So I'll give you a couple examples of a, of a reframe, right? One mindset says, oh, no, sorry, I can't have that pizza. Different mindset says, no, thanks, I don't want that pizza. One mindset says, oh, I have to work out today. A different mindset says, I get to work out today. I deserve to be healthy like that. This reframing of a mindset makes a huge, huge difference. It's so empowering. The one I mentioned first is a big one, like saying, no, I can't versus no, I don't want. Sounds silly. Try it, Try it and see how it feels when I feel like I can't. I feel tyrannized when I feel like I don't want. That's me making the choice. And I feel empowered. Very, very different.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, going back to, like, I think these, these last two tips really serve a very particular person. The, the person that this is so powerful to is if you treat your workouts as a punishment. And there's a lot of people. I'd say a vast majority of the people That I trained came from this place. They came from. I don't like who I am. I don't like the way I look. And workouts were these forms of punishment. And so this becomes really powerful to learn to reframe that as I'm taking care of myself. I love myself. I deserve to be healthier. I deserve to be fit like this. Versus I'm so bad, I'm so ugly, I'm so fat. Therefore I do it. You have to get to this place.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yes.

[Justin Andrews]

Because even if you have used that way, the old way as a temporary motivation, eventually that, that you lose that and you. And you won't win.

[Sal DeStefano]

You rebel from it.

[Justin Andrews]

Exactly. And so if you are the type of person that approaches your workouts and you know that you, you look at yourself and you say negative things, then you, you, you use that to motivate yourself. You've got to get to this place. You've got to get to a place at some point in your journey or you'll keep falling off the wagon. That you don't do it because you hate yourself. You do it because you love yourself. You have to. You absolutely have to.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. When you hate yourself. Well, nobody likes to hate themselves for too long. Eventually. It doesn't look like a missed workout. It looks like you stop working out. It doesn't look like, you know, I ate a couple cookies. It looks like I ate the whole box. Because you are rebelling from the self tyranny that you've put on yourself. Next up is to plan for obstacles. All right, what does that look like? Well, I have a home workout and I know what to do if I can't make it to the gym or here's an obstacle. Sometimes I'm going to drive to the gym and I'm not going to want to work out. So I have a plan. What does it look like? I do one exercise.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

So I'm going to walk in, I'm going to do. Or I'm just going to walk on the treadmill. You have plan B for when obstacles get in the way or oh no, the babysitter didn't show up. It's okay. I have this workout I can do with my kids. They'll play over in the corner and I'll use this one kettlebell or these bands or whatever. When you have that, then you're okay.

[Justin Andrews]

This one, this one damn near took me 40 years to get to. It took me a long time to get out of the all or nothing mindset and that there's going to be Times when I just do not want to work out or I can't muster the energy to go all out and giving myself the permission of those days are going to come. It's inevitable when the workout becomes no longer the priority. I've got a bunch of family stuff going. So giving myself that permission that if I really feel like that, hey, go in and just. Just go do three sets of squats. Take it. Take you 10, 15 minutes. Just go do that. And I tell you, just having that plan for when those days arrive and come, because they're inevitable. I think they're inevitable for everybody's journey. I can't tell you how many times that I kept me still going to the workout, and then many times I just do that, and then I end.

[Sal DeStefano]

Up wanting to do more, finishing the.

[Justin Andrews]

Workout, and I end up finishing, having one of the best workouts, or sometimes I just get that three and I leave. But then I feel like, you know, at least I. I tried. I feel good that at least I did something in the gym and I didn't just not do anything or go the total opposite direction.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, well, I had some clients that really struggled sometimes with work. They would get real stressed out. Or I trained surgeons who would be on call. And so. And I got them to be consistent. Part of the reason why I got them to be consistent is they knew if they showed up exhausted that we would do stretching and we would go for a walk and we'd do mobility. They knew that if they showed up, the workout changed. They didn't have to skip. They didn't have to skip. Finally, you change your identity. This sounds silly, but I think Jamie Seltzer, I think said this on our podcast. You identify as someone who prioritizes fitness. Yeah, this kind of self talk.

[Justin Andrews]

He said that really?

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, he did. This kind of self talk makes a big difference. So I'm, you know, you. Right now, you may be someone who hates working out, but now I am someone who prioritizes fitness. What does a person who prioritizes fitness do in this particular situation? Sounds silly, I know this, but you have to understand is the behaviors lead to the process being consistent, which leads to the results. So it's. The behavior is at the root, and at the root of behavior is your identity. And if you identify as someone who prioritizes fitness, then you're gonna prioritize fitness.

[Justin Andrews]

And sometimes you have to say it even before you believe it. And then you say it enough times, and then you begin to believe it, and then it becomes your identity.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's Right.

[Justin Andrews]

And so I think self talk is so important. And I think if you don't practice saying that, no, I'm a person who just works out. I work out two, three times a week, whatever the number is. And again, commit to whatever you know, you can pin to. And then you can build on that. You can always become, you can always start off as a person. I never miss. I always get at least one workout a week. And then you become a person who. Oh, you know what? I'm always a person who works out two times a week. You can always build on that idea.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, and imagine if you combine all these, right? You've got the, the visual, you know, check marks on the calendar. You're doing a little bit of workouts every single day. You got your friction free environment. You're saying, I'm someone who prioritizes fitness. Then you look up at the calendar and wow, I haven't missed the workout in 45 days. I am someone who prioritizes fitness. That's where the power comes from. All right, I. I got it. I did not. I don't know why I didn't think of this. Josh, one of our editors sent me some data on pasture raised chicken. And I just. This is such a incredible epiphany. And I didn't. I never understood this as a. When I was training clients, but I wish I did because this has to be one of the easiest ways to bump protein and cut calories that I've ever thought of. So if you eat, we know this with grass fed meat, right? You already eat meat, switch to grass fed meat. Why? Grass fed meat is leaner and higher in protein. So you can eat the same amount, your calories drop, your protein goes up. Same thing is true for pasture raised chicken. 21% less fat.

[Justin Andrews]

Wow.

[Sal DeStefano]

Wow. 21% less fat in pasture raised chicken. So if you eat chicken, I know that. Yeah. If you eat chicken and beef on a semi regular basis and you want to cut your calories, but you want to feel like you're not cutting your calories because you're eating the same amount and you want to raise your protein, just switch from regular meat to grass fed and then switch from regular chicken to pasture chicken.

[Justin Andrews]

No kidding.

[Sal DeStefano]

And everything's less calories and higher protein. You don't have to do anything. You're eating the same amount.

[Justin Andrews]

I didn't know that about chicken.

[Sal DeStefano]

You know what's crazy about it is.

[Doug]

Well, of course. I mean, it makes perfect sense.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's so funny. When you have animals that are healthy they're also leaner.

[Doug]

Just like, better muscle.

[Sal DeStefano]

Like.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, well, especially considering that when commercial farming, it's in their best interest to. To bulk their weight up at any means possible. I don't care if the bird is sick or not. I want it to be as abnormally huge because I get paid off of the weight of the. Of the bird. And so your margins get versus pasturages of grains.

[Doug]

And yeah, they're not even eating, like, insects. And that was the best part too. Even in its. Not what you mentioned, but, like, the quality of the eggs and like the egg yolk when they're actually going around and like eating like, diverse food, it makes a huge difference.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, God, look. Crack. Two eggs, one pasture raised and one conventional. The conventional eggs now look sick to me. Yeah, there's like this pale yellow versus this, like, really vibrant.

[Justin Andrews]

Now. I'm gonna tell you, I mean, we've been getting our chicken from butcherbox for a long time. That's always been a part of my box. I know we've all talked about our own personal box boxes, but we've. We've been getting the chicken thighs from there.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's what we get forever.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, but I. I never even thought to compare the macros.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's crazy. It's. Dude, bro, you're weighing the same amount of chicken. You don't even realize you're eating less calories.

[Justin Andrews]

I did not know that.

[Sal DeStefano]

And more protein.

[Justin Andrews]

I did not.

[Sal DeStefano]

And you know what's cool? You know, speaking of butcher box, like, talk about an easy way to lower your calories. Bump your protein. Eat meat that is a little higher in nutrients, better fat. You know, fat fatty acid profile. Right. More omega threes, less omega sixes. And you save money because you pay for the box. Well, it shows up. There's all.

[Justin Andrews]

You mean. It also goes back to the other thing you said earlier too, about remove friction.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

You know, it's like, it's one. Like, how many times have you been prepping? Yeah, like, how many times were you gonna get something for dinner that night? It's like, oh, you don't have anything, therefore you go order out or do something where this thing gets shipped to your house. And I mean, I. We have a deep freezer at our place. And I mean, that box comes in consistently. And I just. I have. I always have good meat in my freezer. There's never a time where that freezer gets completely empty. I always have overflow of that. So there's never an excuse that I don't have something that I Could cook. That's a healthy choice.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. You know, we were talking about mindset earlier, and I had this. This wonderful moment yesterday when I got home from work. So I get home from work and it's like 5:30 and you know, you know, I'm tired. We sit in the studio with these lights or whatever, so it kind of fries you a little bit. I get home and my kids are happy to see me. And immediately I go and I start playing with the kids. And my little ones want to play. They play this game called magic Statue. It's pretty funny. I think they saw it on what's that Bluey?

[Justin Andrews]

I think it's the cartoon magic statue.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. It's actually a fun game, dude. They act like they're statues, and I put them in a part of the room and then I turn around and then they run and move somewhere else. And I turn around and act like I'm surprised. Like, I thought I put you over there. They think it's the funniest thing, but it's an active ass game. So I'm tired and I'm picking them up and moving them around. Yeah. And we play for like 45 minutes straight.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, my God.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Yeah. So as I'm doing this, I remember there was a. There was a moment where I felt, like, kind of tired and like I wanted to do something else. And then I had this, like, automatic. It was weird. I wasn't even trying to have this mindset shift. And I'm like, this isn't about me. It's about my kids. I'm a. I'm a parent. A lot of my life now is about them. And I immediately. It was so cool. I immediately felt so. So much gratitude. And I just realized, you know, you think about how often parents struggle when they have kids because they struggle making that switch of it's all about me versus now, it's not about me anymore. And so they talk about it as a sacrifice. You have to sacrifice your wants for your kids, which I get that. But I think if with the mindset, if you go into it knowing, like, it's no longer about me, it's about them.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

It doesn't feel like a sacrifice. It actually feels like a blessing.

[Justin Andrews]

I think a lot of that has to. I mean, I believe a lot of that has to do with age. I just. I really do. I think that when you're. When you're 20 something years old, it's really hard to frame it like that.

[Sal DeStefano]

You.

[Justin Andrews]

Because you still, for the most part, are in a very Selfish stage of your life. You're still building your security, especially early 20s. Right.

[Sal DeStefano]

Your brain isn't fully developed.

[Justin Andrews]

Your brain isn't fully developed. You're still building that foundation for your family or potential family. You're still growing a lot as a man, trying to figure your own way out and learn and become mature and wise. You know, you get to your 40, mid-40s and you're just at a whole different already. So that, that's so much easier for you or I or us to do that than I feel like the 25 year old dad who's in it, like that's a tough.

[Sal DeStefano]

I agree. I do think though, it's helpful to hear it.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, you know, you know what I mean? No, no, I think I'm so glad you share it and we talk about it because I never had a place to listen in my 20s. I didn't hear men in their 40s talking about, especially men.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, yeah. You don't hear that too often from men. In fact, even for mom, sometimes you hear about like, you know, I don't get to do this or I don't get to do that anymore or I want whatever. And I get that. Like, I totally get it. It is a law for other people. But if you really understand the mindset of it's not about me, it's about them, then you're in it and you're like, you accept. You not only just accept it, then you start to see and feel the blessing of it all. And I know people hear this and it's like, whatever, but I promise you, it's a season. At some point you'll look back and you'll be like, I missed that again.

[Justin Andrews]

Another, another part of being 45 is you've already seen four and a half decades go by. You know how fast a decade goes. So it's very easy for me to my son and go like, dude, I'm going to blink. And this time where he wants me to tuck him in bed every night will go, I have no problem going to his room every night and laying down next to him for 10, 15 minutes while he lays there and we look at the ceiling or whatever. Like that. That does not. I do not feel like I'm sacrificing to do that. I feel like it's a privilege that I'm not going to get in five more years. So it's a total reframe. Put me at 25 when I probably couldn't wait to get on video games with my buddy or, you know, had Some book I was trying to finish or worried about numbers and work. Like my mind would be somewhere totally different and so hard to do that I feel like at that age. So like. Yeah, no, I cherish those moments. Even when I'm exhausted and have moment. Doesn't mean I don't have moments of selfishness that creep in. But it's real easy for me to switch that the other way and go like, changes everything.

[Doug]

Yeah, I've learned. Yeah. I have had to do the same thing and really just start it by going outside and shooting hoops and you know, doing things outside actively and, and you know, then they, well, where's dad? What's dad doing? And then they, they come find me and then it's like, it's an invitation. It's like, here, I'm doing this.

[Sal DeStefano]

Let's, let's.

[Doug]

Instead of me coming in hammering, I just get so sick of like coming in, throwing everybody out, having to be the hammer all the time. It's like, come join me, dude. Let's have fun.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. And you know too, because as your kids get older, like thinking about like when they were little, I bet you if you could go back and visit that you totally would.

[Doug]

Totally.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. You talk to any parent as their kids get older, like, oh God, yeah. Grandparents say this all the time. Soak it up. They grow up real fast. So hard to heal here when you're in the middle of all of it. Yeah, but it's so true.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, I mean that's the other thing that we brought up. We talked about this off air about like you being at the age you're at. You're, you're not quite grandpa age, but you could almost be.

[Sal DeStefano]

I mean if you. Are you kidding me? My dad was a grandpa my age.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. So, so think about that. So. And think about how grand grandpas are with their, with their grandkids. They just, they. I feel like as a 45 year old dad, you act a little bit more like a grandpa who's just so appreciative. You're calmer, you're chill. You know what I'm saying? Like it's a, it's a different vibe. This is why, I mean I talked to all I know, we have our young staff. I talked to like a lot of my, my nephews and cousins that are much younger than me and they're always asking about, you know, being an older dad. Oh, don't you wish that you were this? And I'm like, no, no, no, I'm, I'm so grateful that it played out the way it did because I know that I'm. I know that I'm a. I know for me, okay, I'm a better dad in my 40s than I, I, I would have been in my 20s even. Even as much as I would have tried to be one then. I think the, the head space that you're at when you're, when you're older to appreciate all that little stuff.

[Sal DeStefano]

Totally. Okay. Do you guys ever read the book 1984, George Orwell's book nineteen four. So this I have.

[Justin Andrews]

Not.

[Doug]

Prophetic.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's a famous novel about propaganda. So the irony of this is hilarious. George Orwell's estate approves the retelling of 1984 from a woman's point of view. So, like, let's just appreciate the fact that the most famous novel on propaganda will be rewritten to conform to modern propaganda. Is that real? Yeah, dude. They're gonna, they've approved the rewrite writing of it for it. So it's like, it's almost ironic from a woman's perspective. Yeah, it's almost ironic that they're like, oh, yeah, we'll change the story to meet this new. Yeah. You know, or whatever.

[Doug]

Little adjustment.

[Sal DeStefano]

I know.

[Justin Andrews]

I wonder if they'll probably do well. I mean, right? It'll probably do well.

[Sal DeStefano]

Maybe.

[Justin Andrews]

Yes.

[Sal DeStefano]

What are they going to add to it and change?

[Justin Andrews]

I have no idea. I didn't read it, so I wouldn't know what, what they would change from a surveillance state. I mean, that's just. Bro, that sounds like it might be. Just be a marketing strategy too. What a brilliant. What a brilliant marketing strategy. Right? You get a whole, whole whole new.

[Sal DeStefano]

When was that book written? That's an old book, bro. It's wild. If you.

[Adam Schaefer]

In the 50s.

[Doug]

No, no, no, Future.

[Sal DeStefano]

Future.

[Doug]

Oh, that was the future of like how. Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Everything was going to be surveillance state. And so when you, if you ever read it, bro, it will trip you out.

[Doug]

It's too. How accurate it is parallel.

[Sal DeStefano]

You're talking about a.77.

[Adam Schaefer]

1948.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay. So how many years have gone by now since what? 70 years? 60 something. 70 years. 70. Yeah, that, that book. If you read it now, it's eerie. The predictions that he wrote in that are like, oh my God, half of the stuff came true, dude. It's so. It's.

[Justin Andrews]

Was it a good book? Was it good or. I don't.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, it's. I mean, it's required reading in a lot of high schools and colleges.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, really?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, that one animal.

[Doug]

Those shirts. You've seen like make Orwell fiction again.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Like, because it's, it's way too accurate.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Anyway, I gotta talk, I gotta tell you guys about. So you know the, we did the episode, an episod episode recently, maybe a couple weeks ago, a week ago where we talked about like the best carbs for bodybuilding.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

For building muscle. Yeah. People are so funny about diet. It's like, it's like religion for a lot of people.

[Justin Andrews]

Why did we get pushback on that Zealots, bro.

[Sal DeStefano]

The low carb fanatics. Like, it's not like we, I don't know what we said on there that would make some of them mad. I think we said that dairy promote carbs. Yeah. Like you're, it's easier to build muscle. You're going to be stronger if you eat carbs. Herbs, this, that and the other. And people are just this.

[Justin Andrews]

You know why? Because that group of people are angry because they don't get cake or cookies every day. I would be bitter and angry too.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's just, it's just they're limited.

[Justin Andrews]

Is angry.

[Sal DeStefano]

I read some of the comments on there and they're just people like, you don't know what you're talking about. I've been low carb. It's been life changing. Well, okay, good for you, dude. I don't know why it's so offensive to you that you can eat.

[Justin Andrews]

What do you think it is, what is it about diet that has so many parallels to religion? What is, what is that?

[Sal DeStefano]

I think it's because, because you're life changing.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, you're, you're, you're deciding to live your life according to a certain way of parameters and you've chosen that way.

[Sal DeStefano]

The people who are like that found a diet or a method that in the moment, for whatever, however, period of.

[Doug]

Time, following guidelines, just like you had.

[Sal DeStefano]

A religion, well, it changed their life, so.

[Justin Andrews]

And also like a religion.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, yeah, but, but obviously false God. But, but you. They changed their diet, it changed their life. And now they want to preach to everybody and then they have people telling them, why carbs. I feel okay. No, you don't understand. No, you can't eat carbs or no, you don't understand. Like all plants do long enough. Yeah. And it becomes this like weird conversation. It's really weird.

[Justin Andrews]

I think it comes. I, I mean for most people, obviously there's, there's always exceptions to rule, but I think for most people it probably comes from a good place because it was just like, I think a lot of religious Zealots. I don't think they mean to come off the way they do sometimes. I think it's that it so life changing for them that they. They want other people to feel it, experience it and share it. You know and so it's probably coming.

[Sal DeStefano]

From that place becomes a part of their identity.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Is what it is.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. But to get angry at. I mean I. I don't. It's so weird because we're. We're so do whatever you want.

[Doug]

People have issues with control.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, I mean I think so.

[Doug]

Let's be honest.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. I. There's a study that came out.

[Doug]

They're the same people that want you to wear a mask.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh no, I don't think the same people. Probably some. There's probably some crossover because I don't think to the ones that. I don't think mask wearers were the carnivore eaters. Yeah. I think they might have been the vegan. Sorry.

[Justin Andrews]

Different religion.

[Sal DeStefano]

Do a study on it.

[Justin Andrews]

Different religion. Justice.

[Doug]

I just, just tried to melt.

[Sal DeStefano]

Just cross polish opposing religions. I would love to see a study on that. Who is more likely to. To wear a mask in the car alone? Vegans or like you know, carnivore eaters?

[Doug]

Well, we know the answer.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, that's obvious. I'd put somebody on it but we got to do a study though to know for sure.

[Doug]

Okay.

[Sal DeStefano]

Anyway, speaking of studies, there was a study that looked at exercise and depression. And this study was. It's pretty interesting. As little as five to 10 minutes of exercise a day showed a measurable reduction in depression.

[Justin Andrews]

You know, five to ten minutes a day. You know, these studies that you bring, I can't help but go like all this is pointing out it's just how terrible we are.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

I mean this is like pretty soon. Yeah. It's like all you have to do is think about working out once you realize it.

[Sal DeStefano]

And you're gonna gain muscle if you stand up.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, yeah. I mean that's. It's going that it's getting. We're getting so sedentary and so out of shape that I mean any sort of attempt towards exercise has. Is showing in studies positive change. I mean that's when I hear that that's what comes about.

[Sal DeStefano]

You're 100.

[Justin Andrews]

Not like it's that life change. It's just that that's how bad we are. No, no.

[Sal DeStefano]

To put it, to put it differently, a significant percentage of people's low to moderate consistent depression is a result of inactivity. It is not chemical imbalance. It's not genetic. The reason why you are depressed might just be because you don't move all day long. That's what this is showing. And getting up and moving for 10 minutes gets rid of a measurable amount of depression.

[Doug]

Wasn't there a shift in psychology where they started to implement that in education, where they're starting to feel, you know, really try and work in physical activity?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yes, because of the data on exercise and depression, it felt hard.

[Doug]

It always seemed obvious, but it's like, you know, it. It takes a while.

[Justin Andrews]

The hardest part for that person is that it. They. They have dug such a deep hole, it seems. It seems so impossible to climb out.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, that's why it's so good to hear, right? Five to 10 minutes, right?

[Justin Andrews]

Just a little bit, yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Walk around the block or walk down the street and come back. Just do that.

[Justin Andrews]

And that's probably the mistake that that person who is in crippling depression is thinking, okay, that's great. I hear this exercise I need to.

[Sal DeStefano]

Do, but I don't want to go to the gym.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, I don't go to the gym.

[Sal DeStefano]

I don't want to get out of my pajamas.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, exactly.

[Doug]

Well, even the medications you'd hope would help usher their ability and willingness more to move, you know, to get up and do things.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, that's. So I used to train this. I trained this. She was a psychology professor, and we talked about antidepressants, enzyolytics, and we had this wonderful discussion. And she said, sal, one of the best ways to use those for people is just to get them to the point where they can do the things that help them. So sometimes people are so. Feel so down and out that getting off the couch feels like this insurmountable obstacle. So sometimes the medications give the person just enough to get off the couch to walk around the block, and then the movement itself starts to contribute to them feeling better, and it starts to make them feel better, which makes them want to move more, which then contributes to.

[Justin Andrews]

Do you guys think that you have ever personally suffered from depression or have you ever had someone who's really close to you that's been in deep depression? Have you ever felt that, you think?

[Sal DeStefano]

I've never felt. I mean, I've been depressed, but I've never felt the kind of depressed that makes me not want to get out of bed.

[Doug]

Yeah, you know, I. Yeah, I. I think back. I actually think I did at one point when I was out in Chicago, and I really isolated myself, you know, from all my friends here. My Family and everything. And I was still, you know, on this quest to build up relationships and friendships. And I just got to a point where I just kind of gave up. And it was like really cold. It was really dark. It was like the winter. And I used as an excuse to just hide in my room. I did that for months.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Doug]

And it was until my friends were starting to kind of pull me out, but I didn't realize that was. I didn't realize I was going through that.

[Justin Andrews]

Do you think there was a. Like a. An event or a thing that happened that kind of tipped it to that point? Obviously all the things you just listed probably compounded it or made it worse.

[Doug]

Yeah, it was just. Yeah, it was.

[Justin Andrews]

But did you think there was like a. Like a. An event that happened like that kicked it off and set it down that path?

[Doug]

I mean, I think it was. It was more my separation from my old self and really just trying to recreate myself. And obviously, like, I. I had just broken up my girlfriend of like four years and like it was just kind of a combination of a whole lot of life changing events at once.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Doug]

And then use the excuse of like, oh my God, this, you know, it's so cold.

[Sal DeStefano]

And.

[Doug]

Yeah, I don't know if I can handle this place. And, you know, it was the woe is me thing for a little bit and it got. It got pretty heavy.

[Justin Andrews]

How long did it last, you think?

[Doug]

I think it was like a good two months, probably.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, that's rough. Yeah. Yeah, that's rough too. Yeah, I. I experienced depression a couple times when I lost someone close to me with cancer and then getting divorced. But the way that I tend to handle it, which I don't know if it's any better, is I just don't let myself sit still because I don't want to sit still with how I feel. So I tend to do more.

[Justin Andrews]

I mean, that's probably.

[Sal DeStefano]

Move more.

[Justin Andrews]

I mean, that's probably good advice.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. I don't know. I don't know if it's good advice. If. Maybe it would probably have been better if I sat and felt what I needed to so it didn't come out in other ways? I don't know.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. I don't know.

[Justin Andrews]

So.

[Sal DeStefano]

But what about for you, Adam?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, there's a.

[Sal DeStefano]

Was it when you short soldier?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. Yeah. And what I. That's why I asked Justin if there was like a thing or a moment and you said something that I think I totally relate to was so I would. The way I would articulate it was that for the first time something like shook my identity. Like I thought of myself as a thing and for the first time something in my life, like just totally like that you're not that. And that for me was like this. I had this crippling anxiety of. That I didn't realize that I had. Of not wanting to be anything like my parents financially. And I had prided myself for so long for being so financially responsible and, and proud of myself for that, you know, all the way to my mid-20s and so to short sell my house, even though all the reasoning made sense and it was even a smart. Didn't matter. Uh, it was the fact that, you know, I'm losing my house and people on the outside looking in now, oh, he's like his. Like. And again, no one said, no one thought that. Nobody thought this, but, but that, that's. But it caused this like crippling feeling of depression, of I'm not it. So it like shook my world because I identified as this thing so much and then that got kind of blown up and disrupted and I am not that, you know, whatever. And so it took a while to. It was a few months before and I didn't want to do anything. I remember I didn't, I wasn't. I was unmotivated and so many things that I would be motivated to do and I love to do. And it took a while to kind of shake that and be like, I'm not this thing, you know, I'm not a credit score.

[Sal DeStefano]

You know, it's so crazy. It's so crazy how you, you can play these games with yourself. I. Yesterday my wife pulled out some old pictures and there was an old picture of me. My cousin and I had just finished working out in his backyard. We're 15 years old, so I'm a 15 year old boy and we're flexing. Okay. Now I'm 40. Now I'm in my mid-40s. I look at the picture and I remember that I'm 15. I look at myself and I go, man, I thought I was so skinny. Yeah, I'm actually a jacked 15 year old. I can actually say that now. I looked at it and I go for a 15. If I saw a 15 year old walking around like that, I think that kid works out. I thought I was so skinny. I thought I was so. My God, my body image was so terrible. I was. I believed it. And you couldn't have convinced me otherwise. It was so. It's so weird.

[Justin Andrews]

I've had wild. I've Said that I've had that same experience where I've looked back in a really old picture and I'm like, man, I look pretty damn good. But I remember thinking what that kid felt like. That kid did not felt. I mean, I used to wear three T shirts, so I looked thicker and bigger and just like, so crazy, massively insecure about that stuff. And then I look back and I'm like, dude, that's so wild, the perception that you have of yourself. But I mean, that all. I mean, I. I love that I. That you. We all have dealt with that, felt that, know that. Because I also think that that understanding is what helps you with so many clients. Like, clients.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yes.

[Justin Andrews]

So many of your clients struggle with the same thing. Whether now, most of them, it's the other side. Right. It's not the I'm so skinny. It's normally the I'm so fat.

[Sal DeStefano]

You get it.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. But you get that feeling of like, your perception is. And look at how many. Every day we do live callers, at least one, if not all of the live callers have some sort of this. Where they're like.

[Sal DeStefano]

And then they send a picture.

[Justin Andrews]

You're like, yeah. You know, you look. You look great. And it's so easy, right, for us to. To look and say that to them. But for them, I. I always wonder too, like, when they get off with us, do they. Do they really go like, oh, I need to hear that? Or they're like, yeah. Or do they. Or do they go like, they're stupid, full of crap. Yeah. They're just being nice to me. Like, I bet a lot of people don't even.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, you know what my big realization was with that picture? It was that, like, oh, I thought I was so skinny. The other one was realizing that there's probably things now that I believe that are not true. There's probably things now, and I. Yeah.

[Doug]

Like what are those things?

[Sal DeStefano]

Right.

[Doug]

Think about that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Right. Because we're not going to know till later. Right. Until we get wiser.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. So you need to work out.

[Sal DeStefano]

But that's a good. Say what?

[Justin Andrews]

That you need to work out six days a week.

[Sal DeStefano]

I only work out a few days a week, but it's serious. That's a good realization. To know is to know there's probably things I believe that are not true. And maybe a good idea to believe the people around me that I trust.

[Doug]

Cheese isn't affecting me.

[Sal DeStefano]

You'll never get benefited.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, I mean, I think that no matter. Even though we can admit that we're Aware of that. And we shook that for the most part, because it's such a deeply rooted insecurity. There's an undercurrent of it, no matter what, of course. So there's how you measure. Like, even your perception now of yourself with your majority awareness is still skewed.

[Sal DeStefano]

Sure.

[Justin Andrews]

Because that's an underlying.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's the understanding. It's like. I know.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, I mean, that's. And that's step one. Right. Is @ least being aware that, okay, my. My own perception is skewed on this. I bet 90 of the people that would see me would probably think, oh, you're really fit, you know?

[Sal DeStefano]

All right, I got to bring up another cool study on depression. Lutein and Zia xanthin are shown to improve mental health when people have high amounts of them. Both of those are found in high amounts in, like, leafy greens or greens in particular. And in the study, it talked about bioavailability. Breaking down or cooking them increases bioavailability. So I immediately thought about. Thought about the green juice from organic immediately. It's such a concentrated amount of those nutrients that you would normally need to eat a lot of vegetables to get that. It's more and more. As I start to read more of these studies, I've been looking up more and more studies on phytonutrients and nutrients that are in these things, not necessarily essential. Like, it's not a vitamin or mineral, but still beneficial. So it just keeps making the case for value. Value and having a dream.

[Justin Andrews]

The case to me, because we. There's not like this smoking gun or one ingredient in that green juice that's like, oh, yeah, the studies show this is, whatever. So amazing. It's just like all of it is so good. And there's a reason why every time I drink one of those, I just feel good.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right. I can't put my finger on it.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Doug]

I was deficient before.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. And I think what. I think that you're pointing out and what. Or what it's saying to me is just like, there's. There's so many good things in it that it's probably affecting all of it a little bit.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right.

[Justin Andrews]

And that combination of all those things feeling a little bit better just makes you feel better when you drink that thing. I. Katrina is the better one of the two of us.

[Sal DeStefano]

She carries.

[Justin Andrews]

She carries those around in her purse. Like, she carries the. She carries.

[Sal DeStefano]

She Noticing skin.

[Justin Andrews]

No, she just, like, feels good every time. Her digestion feels good. Her Mood, her energy, all the above. And so it's like one of those things that she just is really good about. If hours have gone by, maybe she hasn't eaten or haven't done anything. We're flying. Like she'll shake that up, she'll add it into a water bottle real quick, shake it up and drink it. And it's like you know what? I could be, I could be better about doing that because I experienced the same experience. I just haven't disciplined myself to be as consistent with carrying it. And everywhere we go she's really good about it.

[Sal DeStefano]

Element is an electrolyte powder you add to your water with no sugar or artificial sweeteners. Has the right amount of sodium, you get better pumps, more energy. It tastes amazing. It's especially valuable for low carb dieters or those of you that eat a whole food diet. You probably or you might need more sodium especially if you work out all the time. Elements the best. Go check them out. Go to drinklement.com forward/mindpump on that link. You'll get a free sample pack of their most popular drink, mixed flavors with any purchase. Back to the show.

[Adam Schaefer]

First question is from simple, not easy. I love your guys programs. I do see people comment about how Arnold presses are a terrible movement. I do see you guys have them in your programming. How do you feel about the negative comments towards that?

[Justin Andrews]

I've never we ignored dumb people.

[Sal DeStefano]

I've never seen anybody have a negative comment. I, I picked that question because I'll address it. Although I've never seen what are the comments?

[Justin Andrews]

You've never seen negative comments about an Arnold press? Well have you? You I mean you have to be. I think they're probably assuming this is somewhere on Reddit.

[Sal DeStefano]

Maybe so. So here's why Arnold here's what makes Arnold presses valuable. A traditional shoulder press will come down here and Arnold press with the supination what it does allows for a deeper range of motion. That's all the supinating hand with the dumbbell just allows for a deeper range of motion. And the data on range of motion and muscle building and strength and stability is clear. Clear, clear. A greater range of motion contributes better to muscle growth. It contributes better to stability and health. And when it comes to the shoulder joint the shoulder joint is a complex joint.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

And you want to train it through its full ranges of motion.

[Doug]

Spiraling diagonal movement is capable of and to be honest it's I think it like stopping here you know in this rigid position adds a lot more unnecessary force on the joint.

[Sal DeStefano]

So here, this is, this is annoying. I ate A1 Fitness. I don't know why I call them experts, but fitness people, we'll make, we'll say a comment.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, hey, this is, this is a good thing to talk about because this is what AI is kicking off.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, so it says. The Arnold press, while popular, has received negative reviews due to potential shoulder injury risks and questionable effectiveness compared to standard shoulder presses. Some fitness experts argue that the rotational movement can strain the shoulder joint, especially for those with existing shoulder issues or those attempting to lift heavy. So this is what's silly. You strengthen.

[Doug]

Caveat of pre existing conditions too.

[Sal DeStefano]

You strengthen what you train. First off, if you can't perform an exercise with good stability and control, then you need to don't do it and figure out a way to be able to do it or get yourself to be able to do it because something's holding you back. But if you could do it with good technique, good stability, it's going to contribute to healthier shoulders. In fact, cutting your reps short and building strength in a short range. Dysfunction, way more dysfunction, especially in the shoulder.

[Doug]

Where else are you going to get that kind of loaded rotation? I'll ask. Because if you're not training that and you're not training the strength capability of your shoulder to be able to go through that normal function, you know, you're limiting yourself to the point where you're not going to have that kind of recruitment to, to be able to stabilize and, and maintain strength in your joints.

[Justin Andrews]

I mean, we, we've, I, I don't know how many tens of thousands of programs we've sold. And we do have Arnold presses in a lot of our stuff. Almost all of them, I don't think. And we have a customer service team that helps people customize the programs if they have problems or issues. And we handle those nerd complaints. I've never heard somebody complain about that. I mean, and, and the only person that if I, if I had a client who had a recent shoulder injury, then maybe we're not doing something like that. But if you can do this, you, you absolutely should do this. It's a natural movement. It's good. And the idiots that are saying otherwise are just that, they're idiots.

[Adam Schaefer]

Next question is from coach Maria Kelly. What is the ideal mindset to have for people starting their health and fitness journey?

[Sal DeStefano]

The best mindset, growth mindset. So that's general. What does that mean? That means, you know you're going to stumble, you know you're going to hit some Roadblocks. You're going to take a few steps back, but that's okay because you're going to learn from them. But generally speaking, you want the mindset with fitness that you are someone who deserves to be healthy. You are someone worthy of being cared for. Exercise workouts is a form of self care. Diet is nourishment for this body that you live in. That mindset will lead you in the right direction. Now the, the, the wrong mindset is I hate myself. I don't like myself. I'm going to go to the gym, I'm going to punish myself. And food is about restriction because I don't deserve to eat that or I shouldn't eat that. That leads to absolute failure.

[Justin Andrews]

I, I also like what you said earlier. I think is a powerful one, which is process focus and not outcome focus.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

So having a mindset that is focused on the process versus thinking about the desired outcome. Right. Oh, I want to be 30 pounds lighter or I want to like, that's focused on the outcome versus, like, hey, I want to be somebody who trains three days a week consistently for a long time.

[Sal DeStefano]

What does that lead to?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, and what that will lead to is ultimately those goals, but focusing more on the process of getting there and not worrying so much on the outcome. I think that is a very powerful mindset. It's kind of like similar to what you, you, you preach and we made shirts about years ago, which is the, you know, chase health and aesthetics follow. You know, try to become, have a mindset to become a healthy person. And a byproduct of becoming a healthy person is somebody with a lower body fat, with strong muscles that are mobile and capable. And so a mindset that is focused on health versus this, like body fat percentage or looking a certain way, you. It'll better, it'll better serve you to go to be health focused.

[Sal DeStefano]

Ghost.

[Adam Schaefer]

Next question is from chef Kyle Bowett. What is something I can do during long rest periods? I want to avoid phones as much as I can. Only tracking sets.

[Sal DeStefano]

This has always been interesting to me. I had clients like this.

[Doug]

Stare at your eyelids.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. I had lots of clients like this where they were like, what do we do? What do we.

[Justin Andrews]

Nothing.

[Sal DeStefano]

We're just going to rest. But I get it. Like, what do I do during long rest period? So a couple things you could do. You could either visualize, you could read, you could write. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

But you don't. You guys don't do that. You have music you read.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Really?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Yeah, that's when I read studies or scripture. I contemplate or I think about.

[Justin Andrews]

I listen. Exactly. I am listening to music. My head is down and I'm thinking about. I'm visualizing the next set. Yeah, that's. That's it. And, and I'm, and I'm actually enjoying and saying this is good time for me to be away from my phone and not look at that screen that I already look at all day long.

[Doug]

In it and be there, be present as opposed to somewhere else. That's the only time you can really like, be that focused and listen.

[Justin Andrews]

And I think this is, this is kind of an important topic right now because we live in this time where we, we. We don't know how to be still and we don't know how to.

[Sal DeStefano]

We.

[Justin Andrews]

We need to be distracted at every moment to the point where we have questions like this, where, what do I do with the two minute rest in between? Like, maybe this is a good time for you to practice. You don't need to do anything.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yep.

[Justin Andrews]

And, and be still and be quiet. And I mean, and I mean it's. There can be a form of meditation within lifting too. Like I, I love to lift where I'm not actually pushing that hard and I don't need to be even that focused necessarily on the lift. And maybe I'm just being at peace and being in my body and being grateful and of where I'm at in my life and what I'm currently getting to do in that moment. Like, I don't know.

[Sal DeStefano]

I, I tell you what, like, for me, my workouts, the in between sets, the rest periods are where I come up with 90 of the content that you hear on the podcast. I come up with in between sets. I have the most creative thoughts. So I like to read, I like to write, I like to pray, and I like to read scripture. And I just, because of the movement, because of the workouts, I just have this really. I just feel like I can think really clearly and well. So the reason why I'm communicating that is for people who are like professionals who like to be efficient and if your phone is a distraction, bring a notepad with you and in between sets, write ideas down and watch what happens 10 minutes into your workout.

[Justin Andrews]

The reason why I, I'm okay with you doing that, and I think that's a good exercise for you is because it reminds me of Paul Check, who would do art.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Doug]

He paint.

[Justin Andrews]

Any paint and that. And that like what you just. This is your art.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Your, your Mona Lisa is this podcast and the content that you bring to this and you have a passion and for that art, I mean you're great at it. It's what you bring to the table. You enjoy it. You've said out of everybody, like, I never want to stop doing, doing this podcast. The money doesn't matter. Nothing matters but you and you thoroughly enjoy it. So a part of you reading for it and prepping for it is a part of your art form and a part of relaxation for you know what I'm saying? So that makes a lot of sense that you have found that as something you do in rest periods. And so I, I, I would encourage if this person has some sort of form of art that they enjoy and they think about that too. While I think that's okay, but I do think that this, this last board.

[Doug]

Is a good thing.

[Sal DeStefano]

Some people just need to see.

[Justin Andrews]

I think that's an important skill to learn to be, be at peace with yourself lost skill.

[Doug]

And I, I want a study that, that you know, proves the value of boredom and like what your brain actually is able to filter through and what kind of connections you can make totally just by allowing that space for your brain to actually, you know, be at rest and, and figure things out.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, I don't like this is a trait I don't like about myself that I've, I've noticed in the last decade and a half of I have become addicted to being distracted in waiting in lines, going to the bathroom, doing so that because of the phone. And so sometimes I will intentionally not do it and just, and like, because I'm like, I don't want to lose that I can't like, I can't be at peace with myself for four minutes. Like that's not, I don't think that's healthy. And so I also would.

[Sal DeStefano]

We hate it by the way way I brought up that study. Humans hate it. They've done studies. They have people sit in chairs uncomfortable and they give them the option to shock themselves or sit there. And people will shock themselves. They'd rather shock themselves. Feel something.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, you got to be. There's something to be said about like, I mean I know, I know Buddhism practices this and like in monks, right? They just sit there learning to be completely at peace like that there's something about that as an art form in itself and learning.

[Doug]

You always stare at weird people.

[Sal DeStefano]

Do you guys think that a gym that today that this might actually become valuable? If a gym said no phones, you're not allowed to have a phone.

[Justin Andrews]

I'm sure there's actually one that's already doing.

[Sal DeStefano]

I. I'm wondering if that would be, like, if people would actually value.

[Doug]

The only reason I'd want is look it up.

[Sal DeStefano]

Doug.

[Justin Andrews]

I bet you they're already in the gym. That's doing.

[Sal DeStefano]

You're right. Music would be the only thing.

[Doug]

Yeah, but I mean, if you could have, you know those headphones where everybody kind of tunes into their own station? You ever seen those rays where people have their own.

[Sal DeStefano]

So stupid. People are dancing, like, oh, you're gonna see what I'm supposed to do. Yeah.

[Doug]

I'll have a gym.

[Sal DeStefano]

Like, I think. I think it's almost. It's so funny. I bet you if you did in, like a kind of a hardcore gym where you can't. You can't be on your phone. No head. No. No headphones either. You listen to the music, and we're in here working out, and that's it. I bet you there's. Because I would sign up for that. I actually would love that.

[Justin Andrews]

I'd be like, yeah, well, I would think CrossFit's kind of like that.

[Sal DeStefano]

You're right.

[Justin Andrews]

CrossFit's very community driven. I don't see. At least it's been a while since I've been across the gym. But the last nobody had the amount.

[Sal DeStefano]

Of people I see in gyms filming themselves while they're working out, and none of them make a living out of this. These are just regular people, like, filming and, like, posing.

[Justin Andrews]

I mean, they're trying to, though, so.

[Sal DeStefano]

I'm like, They're trying to machine these.

[Doug]

People back to normal. It's like, far gone.

[Sal DeStefano]

Knock their phone down.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Kick their stand over.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. Prick.

[Sal DeStefano]

We need more bullies. All right, Doug.

[Doug]

We do.

[Adam Schaefer]

Next question is from Briar Bennett. I'm becoming a personal trainer, mostly because of you guys, and just landed my first client. What steps should I take from here?

[Justin Andrews]

We couldn't talk you out of it, huh?

[Doug]

So many episodes talking trash.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, here's what you do from here. Just remember this. The most important thing that you can do from. For a client is help them develop a relationship with fitness, where they want to do this for the rest of their life. So that's the most important thing.

[Justin Andrews]

You don't want to plug our course, huh?

[Sal DeStefano]

Huh? Well, I think Sal doesn't like money at all.

[Justin Andrews]

Forget that we made an entire course around this exact question, which applies.

[Sal DeStefano]

I'm assuming they have our course because they said mostly because of us.

[Justin Andrews]

Doug can. Doug can look it up. You better do check, Doug, because I'm going to shame this person if they don't.

[Sal DeStefano]

So. But, but I, but I, I think if they.

[Justin Andrews]

Do you think they're as they this question if they don't have the course? Because I feel like if you have the course, you would know a lot of things for you to be focusing on because we cover all that stuff.

[Sal DeStefano]

Maybe, yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Doug's about to find out for me right now.

[Sal DeStefano]

You might be right. But you know, it's true, like, their relationship with fitness is the most important thing that you can develop with them. So what does that look like with the first steps? Well, the workout's enjoyable. They feel like you're happy to see them. They don't leave the workout like they got beat up. They leave feeling good, their joints feel good. They want to come back for more. That's the most important thing you can do. And it's the most important thing you can always do with your clients. If you can get somebody to want to work out for the rest of their life because they've just had this incredible experience for the last year with their trainer. Like, you totally win.

[Justin Andrews]

I won't be a complete dick and just shame you if you don't have the program. I will give you advice here. And one of the, one of the luxuries about only having a client or two is they become your whole world because they are your whole world at this time, business wise. And so man find every way to over deliver on service and value. And you know, I was just meeting with all of our trainers and you know, obviously they've learned from us. They have all, they have gone through our courses, We've taught all the things. But then I'm even challenging each of them. I'm like, you look at each other and pick up what others are doing really well that you might not be doing. And then ask yourself, what can I do different to separate myself? And I remember great examples of trainers had some trainers that heated up towels. And so when your client came there for work, they had this nice warm towel when they first walked. Really? Oh, yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

No, they microwave the towel.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, he had like a. One of those little microwave oven things that were like massage therapists have. And he did that. And it was inspired from that, that talk that we had where I was just like, you are trying to, especially in a company that, you know, you have, everyone follows the same protocol. And so it's like, how do you separate yourself from that? If we all follow the same meal plan, Apex, we all follow the same kind of program. It's like, how do you then separate. Well, you have to learn to go above and beyond. I'm like in this, this day and age with AI and all the tools we have, like what separates you? I don't know, maybe you. Every other day you send your client a healthy recipe. I can generate it for you for less than two minutes. You just prompt it and then you and it's like, here's a healthy recipe for chicken. Like, I mean do little things like that that this person gets to this wow factor of like wow. This is. I know I pay this guy to write my diet and train me and motivate me, but I didn't know I was going to get recipes. I didn't know I was going to get a warm towel. I didn't know I would get a happy birthday or like he did. I didn't know he was going to know my husband's thing was coming up. Like you just think like that and right now you have that time to be thinking of all the ways to over deliver and, and then you know you need to buy our course bro, because you don't have it.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, Justin did shoulder rubs. I think I did. Anyway, that's why you're the best resizer people sign up. Yeah. Look, if you like our show, come find us on Instagram. You can find us at mindpump.

[Adam Schaefer]

Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB super [e-mail] the RGB Super Bundle includes Maps, Anabolic Maps, performance and Maps, aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, the RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee and you can get it now plus other valuable free [e-mail] if you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review on itunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is Mind Pump.