← Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth
Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth
2669: The 3-Step "SBC" Weight-Loss Framework That Works Every Time & More (Listener Live Coaching)
01:39:36
In this episode of Quah (Q & A), Sal, Adam & Justin coach four Pump Heads via Zoom. Mind Pump Fit Tip: The 3-Step "SBC" Weight-Loss Framework That Works Every Time. (1:48) Ways to safeguard yourself from developing dementia. (23:16) An...
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- [00:00]
Sal Destefano
Back to school is better with family.
- [00:02]
Adam Schafer
Freedom from T Mobile we'll pay off.
- [00:04]
Sal Destefano
Four phones up to $3200 and give you four free phones all on America's largest 5G network. Visit your local T Mobile location or learn more@t mobile.com FamilyFreedom up to $800.
- [00:18]
Adam Schafer
Per line via virtual prepaid card typically takes 15 days.
- [00:20]
Sal Destefano
Free phones via 24 monthly bill credits with finance agreement eg Apple iPhone 16128 gigabyte 8 $2009.99 Eligible trade in eg iPhone 11 Pro for well qualified credits end and balance due if you pay.
- [00:28]
Adam Schafer
Off early or cancel contact T Mobile.
- [00:31]
Sal Destefano
Lowe's Nose when you for reliability, the right brand makes all the difference. And now Lowes is the exclusive home improvement retailer for the Whirlpool water treatment line including their Wi Fi softener under sink filtration system and more. With Whirlpool's proven performance and our everyday low prices, better tasting, better quality water is within reach. Shop Pro Trusted brands like Whirlpool and more in store or online Lowes we help you save.
- [01:00]
Justin Andrews
If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go.
- [01:05]
Sal Destefano
Mind Pump Mind Pump with your hosts.
- [01:08]
Justin Andrews
Sal Destefano, Adam Schaefer and Justin Andrews.
- [01:13]
Sal Destefano
You just found the most downloaded fitness, health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump. In today's episode, callers called in. We got to coach them on air. We help them with their fitness, their health and their fat loss. It's a good time. But that was after the intro. Today's intro was 54 minutes long. In the intro, this is where we talk about fat loss, muscle gain, talk about fitness, current events, family life. It's a good time. By the way, if you want to be coached on air by us, email us your question@liveindpumpmedia.com now this episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Tro Scriptions. They make methylene blue. This is an incredible cognitive booster. It is a real nootropic by the way. You'll feel it right away. It's pharmaceutical grade methyl in blue troches. Try it out. You'll know right away that it works. Head over to troscriptions.com that's T R O S C R-I P-T-I O N S.com mindpump use the code mindpump get 10% off. This episode is also brought to you by Caldera Lab. They make skincare products that are natural and that have been Shown to improve the health of your skin and in studies with over 90% efficacy. Try them out. Go to caldera lab.com. that's C A L D E R a l a b dot com. Mindpump. Use the code mindpump20. Get 20% off maps. 15 minutes is 50% off. This is a 15 minute a day strength training program, if you're interested. It's half off. Go to maps15minutes.com then use the code Muscle50 for the 50% off discount. Here comes the show. All right, we're gonna teach you the three step SBC weight loss framework. That almost always works. In fact, it's always worked when I've applied it to my clients. This is what good trainers know that you should learn for yourself. We're gonna teach you right now, by the way. It's not intuitive. It's kind of opposite of what you think. Let's get into it. Yeah, this addresses this right here. If you do it right, the odds of success go through the roof. The problem is everybody does what we're about to say in the opposite direction. And so we're going to walk through the right order of how to approach weight loss so that by the end of your weight loss journey, your, your odds of success and maintenance are much higher.
- [03:32]
Doug
Because all about the setups.
- [03:34]
Sal Destefano
That's right. Because the challenge isn't weight loss. Weight loss is actually, if you look at the data, people successfully lose weight all the time. It's keeping it off that's the problem. Now, I know a lot of people think the reason why people can't keep it off is because they're not able to maintain discipline or structure. That's kind of part of it. But if you set yourself up to the point where maintaining is so difficult because your calories are so low, you're working out too much more than you can sustain. Well, yeah, of course you're going to fail. And so what we learned as trainers, this is what good coaches know, is that when we're getting people through weight loss, we're always thinking of the end result, the setup. How can we set them up for this to be successful long term? And what that starts with is something you don't think when it comes to weight loss, we start with strength. That's the S in the SBC weight loss framework.
- [04:28]
Adam Schafer
This is so important. I want to add too, because I know when we communicate this, one of the things that I get in, like messages is, well, what about somebody who's trying to lose like 50 or 100 pounds.
- [04:39]
Sal Destefano
This.
- [04:39]
Adam Schafer
This sounds like something like someone who just needs lose a few pounds that you do.
- [04:43]
Sal Destefano
And it's even more important.
- [04:45]
Adam Schafer
And this is why I think it's such such an important conversation, because I remember the shift with the way I focus like this on my clients versus early on. Early on, I fell in the trap of the calorie game. Right. Calories in versus calories out. Oh, I have this overweight client. Let's just cut their calories and get them moving more than they have ever moved in their life. And you see some movement on the scale in the right direction, they lose weight. Problem is, it's not long before their body adapts to that new caloric intake and that new amount of movement. And then now where do we go? Now, sometimes you're lucky that person was eating a crazy amount of calories. And so you can do this dropping game two or three times, but eventually what ends up happening is they're at a place where they're stalled out and they're eating so little calories and they're already working out five to seven times a week that they don't know where to go. And so even the client who needs to lose 50 to 100 pounds, I still start in this process.
- [05:44]
Sal Destefano
That's right. So calories in versus calories out is true. In other words, you have to burn more calories than you take in or take in less calories than you burn in order to cause weight loss. Now why is that? Right. So if you're burning 2000 calories a day and you're taking in 1500, your body has to make up that deficit. Because you're burning 2000, you're only taking in 1500. Where is it going to get the extra 500 from? Well, ideally, it takes it from body fat, takes it from stored energy. So that's true. But here's the problem. If we're starting here and then we immediately cut from there, what happens? The body adapts and starts to meet the new caloric intake. So then we plateau, and then we have to drop even more. So this might sound familiar to you. If you're somebody who's lost weight in the past, you've probably encountered this where initially you see some progress, but then you get to a point where you plateau, and then you have to reduce your calories even more or move even more, and then you get the weight, the scale to move again, then you plateau again, then you're in this place where you're like, oh, my God, I'm eating 1400 calories a day or less. I've had people do this at a thousand calories and they're like, I still have £20 to lose or £30 to lose. I can't, I don't want to eat less than this. Or maybe you are successful cutting, cutting, cutting, cutting. And then you're at this place where like, congratulations, you lost 30 pounds. But now I'm eating 1100 calories a day. What happens when I go up? What happens if I increase my calories up to a normal amount of food intake, something that I can manage just a little bit? Yeah.
- [07:12]
Doug
And you're going to feel the difference of that right away.
- [07:14]
Sal Destefano
You're going to gain. So the first step in this is to focus on building strength in the gym. Okay. Now why strength? Strength is the best objective metric that tells us that we're moving in the right metabolic direction. Okay. If you get stronger with strength training. So strength training is the best way to do this. You can build some strength with other forms of exercise, but it's a much more challenging task. You're not going to build nearly as much strength, you're not going to get there nearly as quickly and it's going to take way more work. So use strength training for this. If you use strength training and you build strength consistently. So let's say your goal is to lose £50 and you go in the gym and you're like, okay, I'm going to follow this, this framework. I'm going to follow the SBC weight loss framework and I'm going to focus on strength. So for the first three months, I'm not going to worry about weight loss. My goal is, can I get stronger at these core foundational exercises? Can I get stronger with my overhead press, my bench presses? Can I get stronger with my deadlifts and my rows? Can I do that over a three month period? By the way, if you're just getting started, you can get significantly stronger in a three month period. I mean, it's not unheard of for somebody to get started who struggles with, you know, 15 bodyweight squats to at the end of three months doing 15 bodyweight squats holding 20 or 30 pound dumbbells. I mean, that's 40 to 60 pounds of strength gain and strength correlates to muscle building. If we're moving forward in the direction with strength, we know that what's happening metabolically is positive. I'm setting myself up for a metabolism that is faster so that when I do the cut later on, which we'll get to by the Way the C in the SBC framework stands for cut. That's what we end with. When I'm finally ready to cut my calories, I'm not cutting from here, I'm cutting from here. And so what you end up with is you end up with far more Runway, far more room to cut your calories, and then you're at a place where you're like. And this, by the way, this would happen all the time when I would do this, right? And we were patient, I would have clients who, at the end of their weight loss journey, however long it took, let's say three months, six months, nine months, a year, they were eating as much or more at the end of the weight loss journey than they were at the beginning. Now imagine that. Imagine at the end of this, because you set this up right, you're actually eating more calories than you did when you first got started.
- [09:36]
Doug
It's a way more enjoyable experience, too. You got more energy. You actually look forward because you're actually getting stronger as well than the beginning when you take this approach, which actually, I mean, that's a big deterrent if you're miserable throughout this entire process.
- [09:49]
Sal Destefano
Process.
- [09:49]
Doug
And you're getting towards that end where you're getting close to your goal, but now even more miserable because you've reduced everything to the degree where you're moving a lot, you're eating barely any calories, and there's really no way that you can add at this point because you're going to gain weight. That's frustrating.
- [10:05]
Adam Schafer
Another important point to be made for the S part of this SBC in the strength part is how you approach the strength training. Many. The most common misconception for somebody who needs to lose weight or wants to lose weight is to strength train in a matter that looks like circuit training or low rest periods. They are still playing the chasing calorie burn game, where it's like, oh, if I do more or if I keep this moving or I break a sweat, it's going to be better for my weight loss journey. No, in fact, you want to train the opposite of what that looks like. In fact, it should be these long two to three minute rest periods, and your goal should be adding weight to the bar, not moving faster throughout the week.
- [10:46]
Sal Destefano
We are not chasing calorie burn, or should I say, to be more specific, we're not trying to manually burn calories. What we're chasing is strength adaptations because that results in eventually a body that burns more calories on its own, a body that has more insulin sensitivity. That uses carbohydrates and fats and proteins more effectively, that is less likely to store body fat. Here's the other part of this that is amazing. Okay? It's easier to try to build strength than it is to immediately try to cut calories and lose weight. This is a fact. If I had a client that was coming in, wants to lose £50, they're working out with me twice a week. They're going to get stronger if I train them properly, if we have proper exercises, the appropriate amount of intensity, this needs to be appropriate, right? We don't over apply intensity. It's appropriate for that person's fitness level. They're going to get stronger like clockwork for the next three months, unless there's something majorly wrong like terrible sleep or tons of stress or illness or something like that, they're going to get stronger. They're going to get stronger over 90 days pretty consistently. So it's actually an easier way to start as well. And then to just add to what Justin said, you feel good through this process. So although the scale at this point isn't moving down in a big way, what you do feel is you feel good. Building strength feels good not just because your ego feels good, because you're stronger in the gym, but you actually feel healthier because muscle is metabolically active, you're more mobile, you have more energy, you have more androgen receptors. Right. Every time you build muscle or you add strength, you add what are called or increase what's called androgen receptor density. This is the receptor that testosterone attaches to. This is important for both men and women. Okay, Women. Testosterone is a major hormone in women as well. They just have less of it. When you have more androgen receptors now, your testosterone is just more effective. What does that feel like? Energy, motivation, better libido, better sleep. So start with getting stronger. Your goal is weight loss. Initially, I'm not considered. I'm not even worried about the scale. I just want to get stronger. I'm going to get stronger at these traditional lifts and I'm going to train like somebody who's trying to get stronger, not like somebody who's just trying to sweat and burn a lot of calories. Now step two, the B. The B stands for build metabolic rate. Now, what does this look like while I'm trying to get stronger? What I'm going to do is I'm going to hit protein targets. Now, this is not what the RDA says you need for protein. That would be what, you know, that would kind of be the Bare minimum. What we're going to try and hit with protein is what the studies show to be the upper limit of effectiveness with protein intake. What that means is optimal. Optimal. What that means is I'm going to eat the amount of protein that studies show builds the most muscle and contributes the most to metabolic rate. What does that look like for most people? Well, about a pound, a gram of protein per pound of target body weight. Okay. So if your weight loss goal is to eventually get to a £150. Well, now what I'm going to do in this phase is I'm going to aim for 150 grams of protein a day. That looks like 50 grams of protein for breakfast, for lunch, and for dinner. I'm also going to slowly increase my calories. This is where it gets crazy. People are like, what are you talking about? I'm trying to lose weight. Why would I increase my calories? Because I'm trying to give my body the nutrients and building blocks it needs to add this metabolic tissue to build this muscle. Now, of course, we're going to be talking about good calories here. You want to eat whole natural foods. Stay away from heavily processed foods. Very easy to go crazy with overeating with processed foods. Those are engineered to make you overeat. So stick to whole natural foods, hit your protein targets, focus on strength. And now what we're doing is we are building our metabolic bank because this is going to set us up for the eventual cut at the end of this framework.
- [14:39]
Adam Schafer
So an important point to be made here is we are not trying to cut calories. We want to feed the body what it kind of wants. Especially when you're going through whole foods and you're hitting protein first, because you eating maintenance or even a little bit above maintenance is going to feed your strength gains and is going to feed your metabolic rate. So it's a positive thing. Even if you were. Because I get this question a lot like, well, Adam, I thought we want to keep our calories right here. What if I accidentally eat 200? I just had, we had a call with one of our, our weight loss group, right? We're, we're taking two groups together. We, we come in every Monday and we, we all meet. And so that, and this was a question where someone, someone was concerned. Like, you know, what about when I'm at a situation where I know I need to get more protein, but then my, I'm about at my calorie limit. I said, listen, if we are strength training and you are building muscle and where you've got good program, which I know you do because you're following ours. And you overeat 100, 200 calories because you're going after your protein target and you, in order to get that, you have to end up consuming maybe 100 or 200 more. Your goal. That is a good thing. Those additional calories will get partitioned over to building muscle, building good tissue, which will help the metabolic rate. And so don't get caught up in the game of trying to cut calories at this point yet. Right now I want to keep you maintained, satisfied, hitting macro targets, that's what's going to feed the metabolism, that's what's.
- [15:56]
Sal Destefano
Going to feed the strength right now. Step one, getting stronger, relatively easy. Go to the gym, strength train, follow a good program. Step two, build your metabolic rate. Hit your protein targets. Eat whole natural foods a little harder. This is a little harder. I know someone listening right now is like, oh, I got to lose weight, but you're telling me to eat more. That's going to be easy. Not when you're really trying to hit those protein targets. Actually quite difficult. Like a 50 gram. By the way, 150 pounds would be what a lot of women, I would say, average height, good fitness, would probably want to aim for around 150 or so. Maybe a little less, maybe a little more. 150 grams, that's a 50 gram of protein. Breakfast, lunch and dinner. Do you know what a 50 gram protein breakfast looks like? How many eggs does it take?
- [16:38]
Doug
It's more than you think.
- [16:40]
Sal Destefano
What is that? That's like eight. Eight whole eggs or something like that.
- [16:43]
Adam Schafer
Seven. Seven would be 49.
- [16:44]
Sal Destefano
Seven whole eggs. People do two. Most people will be like, oh, I have a high protein breakfast. I eat, you know, two scrambled eggs. Well, congratulations, that's 12 grams. Yeah. We have almost 40 grams of protein to go after. So it's actually not as easy as you think. And by the way, again, I'm going to address the whole fear around I'm going to eat so much food, this is going to make me gain tons of weight. If you're hitting those protein targets and you're eating it first and you're eating whole natural foods, the calories control themselves, okay? The calories do control themselves. It's harder than you think. It is not easy to really overeat when you're hitting those protein targets and you're eating whole natural foods. And there's two reasons for this. One, protein is incredibly satiating. It really does, especially in the first year of eating. Now after that, this maybe wears off a little bit. There's some data that suggests that I would still, I would still debate that, but. But for the first year at least, the data shows quite clearly it makes you eat less. It really does control your appetite. And that's a good thing for us later on. Number two, with the whole natural foods, this also helps control calories because heavily processed foods, foods that come in a wrapper or a box, because of the way they're engineered, they're engineered to be hyper palatable. You'll overeat them very easily. And the studies on these are the best, the best diet studies I've ever seen are ones where they compare processed food diets to whole natural foods diets. These are actually controlled studies which are very rare when it comes to nutrition. They'll take groups of people, put them in two rooms, they'll match the macros, proteins, fats, carbs, very similar in the foods in both rooms. And then they'll just tell them to eat until you're satisfied. And then they'll take those groups and switch rooms. So they'll actually take the same group that was here, move them in that room and vice versa and watch. And processed foods will make you eat about 600 more calories a day. 600 more calories a day with the same satiety. In other words, whole natural foods and high protein will actually help control the calories so we don't have to worry about it so much. What we're trying to do here though is build that muscle to set us up for the final piece of this, which is cut at this point, once you feel like your calories are up, you're hitting a protein. I'm a lot stronger in the gym. I feel really good now. I'm going to cut my calories. But now what's going to happen is I'm going to cut my calories from a higher place. Now, instead of cutting from 2,000 calories, which is where I was before or less, now I'm cutting from 2,500 calories, 2,800 calories. Well, now I can go down to a manageable number, a number that is something that I can maintain. And then guess what happens. Fat loss. Incredible fat loss. When you do it this way, the build part, oftentimes you'll hear referred to in the coaching space as a reverse diet because it's a slowly increasing calories. It's gotten very popular. This originated in the competing space, but now a lot of people are using it for everyday people because it's such a successful way of setting people up for long term success with fat loss. And again, the idea is this, don't think about how much weight can I lose? Because the weight loss part, again, you look at the data. That's actually not the hard part. It's how can I set this up so at the end of this, I'm at a place where I can maintain it. So if at the end of this I'm running on the treadmill six days a week and I'm eating 1200 calories, is that something you can maintain? Probably not. Not unless you absolutely love eating nothing and running all the time.
- [20:01]
Doug
Now was the original intent of the reverse diet was really to pull somebody back out of that situation where they were so low calories and so much activity that they had nowhere to go. And that's right to rebuild everything.
- [20:13]
Adam Schafer
So to.
- [20:14]
Doug
To almost do that process from the very beginning is what is ideally the way it is.
- [20:18]
Sal Destefano
100.
- [20:19]
Adam Schafer
So how do I know when it is time for me to transition to the cut? My favorite thing to tell a client is when the strength gains start to slow down and. Or I am at a place where I can't eat any more food, I want to keep increasing. My. My client, who needs to lose whatever said pounds, doesn't matter if it's five or a hundred. I want to keep slowly increasing calories and getting strong. So long as we are continuing to see strength gains come on strong and they still have room that can you eat 200 more calories? Could you eat 200 more calories? And they keep saying like, yeah, yeah, I could do that. Oh, yeah, yeah, I could do to. Eventually they go, adam, I'm having trouble hitting this. I'm having a real hard time hitting the 3, 800 calories. It's just so much food. I don't even. And they start telling me things like, it's too much. I don't like it. It's a lot stretching you now it's a great time. Okay, now let's bring you back down to 3200 and watch what happens. And now we're at a calorie intake that is significantly higher than anywhere you started at. And your body weight is just dropping. Is such a good place to be when you get there. And how great it feels to have reached your goal and be at a higher, higher calorie intake than when you started and you were overweight. That's how you sustain long term weight loss is because of that right there. And the reason why everybody fails and everyone puts the weight back on is because the way, even if they had success, the way they got there was just by the moving more, cutting more game, and they're at a place where they're seven days a week and eating hardly any food and it's impossible to sustain that long term.
- [21:49]
Sal Destefano
Yeah. Now, there's a common myth where when you compare what we're saying to the traditional, I'm going to just start eating way less and start moving a lot more method, what you'll often hear people say is, well, this one takes longer. Right. The right way to do it, the SBC weight loss framework, takes longer, but it's going to be more effective. The other way works faster, but it's less effective. That's actually not true. The truth is, one of them works and one of them doesn't. Okay. The quote unquote faster way that people will say is actually the one that doesn't work. It's the one that results in over 90% of the people who follow it gaining the weight back. So remember this, regardless of how much weight you lose, if you gain it back, you fail. It didn't work.
- [22:34]
Adam Schafer
You.
- [22:34]
Sal Destefano
It's a fail. So you can't go back to. Because maybe you've done this in the past. In fact, the odds are, if you're watching this and this is resonating, you have done this in the past. And the tendency is to look back and go, it worked last time. I'm just going to do what I did last time. It didn't work. It didn't work because you gained it back. So don't do it again. Losing it and gaining it back is a fail. This time the goal is, can I lose it? Can I keep it off? Can I feel good? Is this sustainable? Will I feel strong? Will I be in a place where it's like, this was very normal? You know, we would have clients follow this and they trusted us. Here's the thing, too. You have to trust this process because it does feel like, okay, I'm building strength, I feel good, scale's not going down. I'm kind of trusting the process. So as a good trainer, you would get your clients to really trust you through this process. Man. At the end of it, this is what they would say. They would always say this and say, this is really weird. I can't believe I'm losing weight, eating as much food as I'm eating. This doesn't make sense. I love that. I love hearing that. This doesn't make sense. This has never felt this way before. This Feels too easy. What's going on here? The truth is you're working with your body, not against it.
- [23:44]
Adam Schafer
And sometimes you actually see this process happen while they're in the process of adding calories and focus on strength, which is so fun and awesome to be able to do this. It doesn't always happen, but some clients, as they're adding food and they're going, oh, my God, this is more food than I'm used to eating. And they're strength training, they see weight loss. They see weight loss. I mean, and then. And normally what that is, is that they're just in that beautiful Goldilocks zone where they are slowly building muscle, but they're also burning body fat. And that's what we're looking for. And that's how you have long term success.
- [24:15]
Sal Destefano
Yeah, it's awesome. All right, so I got a cool study for you guys on dementia. This was a study done on women. And I'm gonna read this to you, which is. This is remarkable. So dementia, cognitive decline, Alzheimer's, you know, that whole category, like, that's a big consideration as people get older. I don't know what the exact numbers are, Doug. Maybe you can look up the percentage of people that will suffer from dementia, Alzheimer's and cognitive decline as they get older. It's a significant percentage.
- [24:44]
Doug
Has it increased over, like, the last decade?
- [24:46]
Sal Destefano
It's gotten worse. It's gotten. And it's really, it's really a terrible. A terrible chronic issue. Right. I would, I would much rather have something physical that it doesn't affect my mental capacity. Five or one in seven, it's, it's, it's pretty high. And I'd like to see those numbers from Doug. But anyway, it's. And it's getting worse. It's like a big deal, Alzheimer's in particular. But you could put, if you put just dementia and cognitive decline in there, it's like a pretty strong percentage. Well, anyway, a lot of people are like, well, what do I do to prevent this? Because I don't want to go through this. What are the ways to safeguard myself against this in the future? What does it say? 1. 1 in 3 in 3. Wow. Age? 85 or older. 1 in 3. So 33%. In fact, a significant lifetime risk of dementia after 55 is estimated to be around 42%, according to a twin.
- [25:34]
Adam Schafer
I didn't know it was that.
- [25:35]
Sal Destefano
So between 33 to 42%. So if you're blessed to live, you know, past the age of 75 or 80, the odds that you're going to have some real problems. Cognitively are pretty high and it's scary. This is scary for a lot of people. Right. Because then you really have to depend on people and the whole deal is.
- [25:55]
Adam Schafer
The number one way to counter this. Is it muscle?
- [26:00]
Sal Destefano
Well, it's exercise, but yes, exercise.
- [26:02]
Adam Schafer
I thought muscle actually played a massive role.
- [26:04]
Sal Destefano
Well, exercise preserves muscle and if you were to do a straight correlate, it would be strength. But check out the study. So there was a decade long Swedish study, so it's a 10 year study, revealed a powerful link between physical fitness and brain health in women. Those who were highly fit in midlife were 90% less likely to develop dementia later on. 90%. 5% of the fittest participants had a diagnosis of cognitive decline compared to 32% among less active peers. 5%, that's almost zero. So if you stay fit as you get older, your odds of cognitive decline are 5% according to that study. So that is almost zero.
- [26:46]
Adam Schafer
That is just saying fit. It would be really interesting for you to tease out that those 90% and see if there's an even better response from people that focus on strength training besides just cardio and staying lean or something.
- [26:58]
Sal Destefano
The organ. If you were to take organs or tissues in the body that were correlated to brain health from a cognitive perspective, it's muscle. So it's like it's all. And they test this with strength, they test this with grip strength tests which is just the core just showing overall strength. Right. It's nothing magical about the grip, grip strength. It's an easy way to test someone's overall strength. But it's, it's strength. You maintain good strength. The odds that you're going to have this kind of cognitive decline or dementia is it's, it's not just lower, it's significantly lower. 5% is almost nothing, especially when you compare it to 33%. Yeah. There was a study out of Australia that showed that strength training was one of the only forms of exercise to halt the progression of the beta amyloid plaques in the brain. We don't know, we don't think the beta amyloid plaques cause Alzheimer's.
- [27:51]
Doug
They changed kind of their opinion.
- [27:53]
Sal Destefano
Yeah, but we know that there's something there. Yeah, we know that there's something there. Because people with Alzheimer's have more of these plaques.
- [27:59]
Doug
Yeah, you see it.
- [28:00]
Sal Destefano
And so what they saw with this group was that the people who strength trained it stopped the progression and it actually started to trend going backwards, which is one of the first times we've ever seen that Going in opposite direction without some kind of crazy insulin resistant. Yes. Yeah.
- [28:16]
Doug
That had to be a big factor.
- [28:17]
Sal Destefano
Yeah, yeah. Your muscles are so insulin sensitive that when they're strong and healthy, you maintain good insulin sensitivity, which means your body utilizes energy very well. So people with dementia, you'll see a reduction in their cognitive decline symptoms if you switch them to like ketones. Because now their body doesn't have to use glucose or the brain doesn't have to use glucose. It's not a cure, it's just kind of a clue that it's. And a lot of researchers will call dementia type 3 diabetes. It's actually insulin resistance of the brain or the inability of the brain to utilize that energy. So stay fit. You stay fit. You know, fit body results in a fit simply.
- [29:00]
Doug
Yeah. That just gives you more motivation.
- [29:02]
Sal Destefano
Isn't that awesome?
- [29:03]
Doug
Fit as long as you can.
- [29:03]
Sal Destefano
Isn't that awesome?
- [29:05]
Adam Schafer
What about things. Because they've done stuff too, like on like crossword puzzles and brain type exercises. Like, I think obviously strength training does the most because I feel like very small. It is very small.
- [29:15]
Doug
Neurofeedback.
- [29:16]
Adam Schafer
Oh, I thought it was still pretty good.
- [29:18]
Sal Destefano
There's, there's definitely something. Right, Right. But it's not because you're exercising the brain, but you know what exercises the brain. More exercise. Yeah. Than crossword.
- [29:28]
Adam Schafer
I mean, that makes, it makes sense. It's like exercising, like doing crossword puzzles is great, but you get all those benefits and more by just strength training.
- [29:36]
Sal Destefano
Yeah.
- [29:36]
Adam Schafer
Because it lights up the brain twice.
- [29:39]
Sal Destefano
As much every time you contract a muscle. The brain has to, to control that. And then of course, the insulin sensitizing effects of having these strong muscles. And if you add up the other factors to consider as you get older, like mobility issues is a big deal, by the way, as you get older.
- [29:56]
Adam Schafer
And balance.
- [29:57]
Sal Destefano
Well, balance is a loss of strength. So mobility issues, you fall when you're older. That's a big deal. It causes lots of. Especially if you get hurt to the point where you have to hospitalize and then bone loss. Like all those things are directly combated with exercise strength training in particular. And the beauty of this is this is that you don't need to do a lot of strength training. One or two days a week are plenty for the average person. So you could be active every day. But when you're like, okay, what structured form of exercise should I do that's going to like, give me some really good longevity effects. Strength training. The funny thing about this is it was the, the whole stereotype of the dumb Jock, you know, like, you'd see this in movies. Like the, I know. You know, the muscular person is kind of dumb.
- [30:42]
Doug
Revenge of the Nerds. It's like, yeah, all the jocks were picking on everybody and dumb as rocks.
- [30:47]
Sal Destefano
No, it actually helps your brain, you know, quite a bit, which is.
- [30:50]
Adam Schafer
Speaking of dumb jocks, how's that nerd going right now?
- [30:53]
Sal Destefano
You're talking to me. I'm a dumb jock.
- [30:57]
Adam Schafer
They're going, okay, how's your series? How's your series going?
- [31:00]
Sal Destefano
Right? It's going good. I, I, I did the workout with Johnny, with Johnny Sebastian the other day. It was really fun working out with a pro bodybuilder. I'm gonna do, I don't know what I'm gonna do next. I am gonna meet with Dennis Roberts, who's a top level jiu jitsu fighter, MMA fighter. He struggled with fitness in a different way. So mine was like to, you know, feel capable, look a different certain way. His was like to perform.
- [31:25]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [31:25]
Sal Destefano
And he sacrificed his body like crazy, going through different surgeries and stuff. So I know he's had that struggle too. So I'm gonna talk with him. I'm gonna try meeting with John Deloney. I know he's also struggled with fitness and you know what that means for him.
- [31:36]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [31:37]
Sal Destefano
So I'm gonna talk with him. I think I'm gonna try and get Father Steve on. You guys remember Father Steve? Yeah, yeah. Because he's, he's got, obviously he's a, he's a priest, so he's got great faith, but he's also like a bodybuilder. So I want to ask him, like, how does he do this in the right way to where you don't get obsessed about how you look and stuff like that. So. Yeah, so, yeah, that'll be interesting.
- [31:57]
Adam Schafer
I believe when this goes live, when this is live, it'll be up. This series is up and started. Right?
- [32:01]
Sal Destefano
It should be, it should be. I think one of the next ones I'm going to film. There might be one in the field somewhere. Yeah, like some.
- [32:09]
Adam Schafer
Like a corn. Like a cornfield?
- [32:11]
Sal Destefano
No, like a grass.
- [32:14]
Doug
Are you gonna spin around and have.
- [32:16]
Sal Destefano
Like a drone, get dizzy? No, I'll, I'll do, I might do some. I might embarrass the heck out of myself. Justin, you're gonna appreciate this run.
- [32:24]
Doug
Can I be there maybe?
- [32:25]
Sal Destefano
Something like that.
- [32:26]
Adam Schafer
Oh, my goodness. Boy, you are really.
- [32:28]
Doug
Oh, my God.
- [32:29]
Sal Destefano
That's the idea, dude.
- [32:30]
Adam Schafer
I see that. I'm proud of you. Wow, that's like.
- [32:32]
Sal Destefano
Yeah, one of Them I'm gonna do. I think I'm gonna do a garage gym workout. I think I'll invite you, Dylan, to my house and work out my garage, which is, you know, this is just memories working out with my home gym equipment. I got my old Franco Colombo poster in there. Have you guys seen that?
- [32:46]
Adam Schafer
Yes.
- [32:47]
Doug
That poster that signed one time. Yes.
- [32:49]
Sal Destefano
I've had that poster for.
- [32:51]
Adam Schafer
I didn't realize it was 20 something years. I know it was signed.
- [32:53]
Sal Destefano
Yeah.
- [32:54]
Adam Schafer
Oh, I knew you had it, but I didn't realize it was signed.
- [32:55]
Sal Destefano
Yeah. Do you know how strong that guy was?
- [32:58]
Doug
So strong.
- [32:58]
Adam Schafer
His deadlift was crazy.
- [32:59]
Doug
I just remember watching him lift the car. It was like a VW Bug or something. And he just.
- [33:04]
Sal Destefano
No, it was literally. It was a Fiat, but it was a small Fiat. It was like a big Fiat. Yeah, it was like a four seater. Yeah. He was 180 pounds. 180 pounds when he was deadlifting over 700 pounds.
- [33:15]
Doug
Small guy, but like super jacked.
- [33:17]
Sal Destefano
Yeah. Yeah, dude. Yeah. I watched this interview with Arnold because that was his workout partner and Arnold was just like, what was he saying about him? He's like. He was a gorilla. It didn't make any sense. He's like. He would hang upside down from his toes. You ever seen what. He put his feet on the bar and he would hang upside down from just his toes.
- [33:31]
Adam Schafer
I mean, literally his only reason for not being as dominant as he was because he was small.
- [33:35]
Sal Destefano
He was a little guy.
- [33:36]
Adam Schafer
Yeah. But when you look at his symmetry and his muscle size, it's just that you put Arnold next to him and it's just not fair.
- [33:43]
Sal Destefano
That's the picture right there. That's the picture I have with the. What is that a Great Dane next to him? It must be a great D. Yeah.
- [33:49]
Adam Schafer
It looks like that.
- [33:49]
Sal Destefano
Yeah, just. Just doing just ungodly weight. That's awesome. I know. It's just so cool. He still has, in my opinion, in bodybuilding in terms of proportion and just, you know, like stand out. His lat spread to me, especially when you consider a size the most impressive you, you know, you ever seen these last bread.
- [34:05]
Adam Schafer
You know who I think the funny.
- [34:08]
Doug
The irony is like the golden era. That's the only time I ever pay.
- [34:11]
Sal Destefano
Attention to bodybuilding was Franco. Yeah.
- [34:13]
Doug
Him, Arnold, all those guys.
- [34:15]
Adam Schafer
I think, you know who I think? And they still look amazing. When's the last time you looked at Frank Zane?
- [34:19]
Sal Destefano
Oh, he looks great, bro.
- [34:20]
Adam Schafer
Frank, look up Frank Zane right now.
- [34:22]
Sal Destefano
Like, he's in his 80s, right?
- [34:24]
Adam Schafer
Yes. And he Looks incredible. Yeah, like, you know, of all the guys, he had the most natural, balanced, healthy looking physique to me, even back then. And he has maintained that look. Find a picture of him where he's at right now. Is that him right there?
- [34:38]
Sal Destefano
No, that's not now, but that's when he was in his 70s. That picture right there.
- [34:43]
Adam Schafer
Find a recent picture. I've seen videos of him recently and he still looks really good.
- [34:48]
Sal Destefano
You know what's funny about these old bodybuilders that still look and move amazing. They all trained in a similar way. They all trained very smart. They didn't go like crazy. I mean, we're talking about how strong Franco was, but Frank Zane was always very controlled. He was always very careful. Technique was very good. And that gives you longevity. You know, you got the guys that go nuts with, look, I'm 82. Yeah, look at that.
- [35:11]
Adam Schafer
Look at that, bro. Look at that. At 82.
- [35:13]
Sal Destefano
I know.
- [35:13]
Doug
Yeah. The guys that went nuts are like in wheelchairs now. It's kind of sad.
- [35:16]
Sal Destefano
Oh, torn muscles and slip disc and just.
- [35:19]
Adam Schafer
That's so impressive to me. I don't know if I've seen an 82 year old that looks that good.
- [35:23]
Sal Destefano
You know what, you know what? This, this reminds me. You know what I love about fitness is that it's one of the physical pursuits where the older you are, the more respect you get.
- [35:30]
Adam Schafer
Oh, yeah.
- [35:31]
Sal Destefano
Like if you're an old, you know.
- [35:32]
Doug
How much harder it is.
- [35:33]
Sal Destefano
You're an old person in the gym and you're like fit. Everybody in there is like you're the per. You're just respected. Yeah. In the gym.
- [35:41]
Adam Schafer
Well, just the level. Unless you live on consistency to have done that, you know, and the, and the discipline to just take care of yourself that way. Although I will say, and I've said it many times lately on the podcast, that when you've laid such a solid foundation like this, the, the amount of stimulus and effort to keep it is little. Is. Yeah. Is very, very little. I mean, so for the young lifter, I mean, that's the thing to look really forward to, in my opinion, is working hard when you're young and building a good, solid base.
- [36:09]
Sal Destefano
Yeah.
- [36:09]
Adam Schafer
Because then go hard early. Yeah. Then going forward, you know, the, the maintaining part of that is so much easier than, than what it was when you first started.
- [36:19]
Sal Destefano
It's. Yeah, I love it. I got some studies on methyl and blue for you guys. So, you know, people might know, not know. We're working with a company that sells a methyl and blue product. Which is. It's a really remarkable.
- [36:32]
Adam Schafer
What is it? A Troscriptions.
- [36:33]
Sal Destefano
Yes, Troscription is the name of the company. So you can either use them sublingually or you could just swallow them sublingually. You'll obviously hit you much faster.
- [36:41]
Adam Schafer
But then your mouth turns blue.
- [36:42]
Sal Destefano
Yeah. Then you got, you got a blue mouth. So. But. So check out the studies on this that I found. These are pretty interesting studies for cognitive effects. There was a review that summarized long term methylene blue use, noting sustained improvements in memory and cognitive processing with low dose administration. So it's not like a temporary benefit. There seems to be this long term cognitive sal.
- [37:09]
Adam Schafer
What's the origin? Like what were we using?
- [37:11]
Sal Destefano
That's an old. It's old.
- [37:12]
Adam Schafer
I know it's been around and I feel.
- [37:14]
Sal Destefano
I think it was a dye.
- [37:15]
Adam Schafer
And what is it? And why did it all of a sudden.
- [37:18]
Doug
Factory and a blue jean factory.
- [37:20]
Adam Schafer
We always, we always talk about the. How funny and kind of comical this is that a lot of this stuff has been around forever and then it gets popular again. Like why is it trending so hard this last, I don't know, three, four, three to five years and it's been around forever.
- [37:33]
Sal Destefano
People have discovered it for cognitive benefit, but it was a, it was a medicine for a long time.
- [37:37]
Adam Schafer
So maybe, Doug, you could look up 1876.
- [37:40]
Sal Destefano
It was first synthesized. What? Yeah. And it was used. It was a dye for a textile industry. Isn't that funny? Yeah, that didn't sound good. Sounds like you shouldn't take it.
- [37:49]
Doug
I mean, obviously it's for health, but.
- [37:51]
Sal Destefano
It'S been around for a long time. It was used anti malaria and an antibiotic.
- [37:58]
Adam Schafer
Oh, wow.
- [37:59]
Sal Destefano
Before chloroquine was developed. And in fact, Doug, you can look up, look up the medical uses for methyl and blue. I think they still use it for certain things right now. Like they'll give you IV of methyl and blue for certain.
- [38:12]
Adam Schafer
Really?
- [38:12]
Doug
Was it methylene blue in combination with red light therapy really enhanced the mitochondria further.
- [38:18]
Adam Schafer
Oh, really? Yeah.
- [38:19]
Doug
I'd heard the combo. That was powerful.
- [38:20]
Sal Destefano
Yeah. What does it use there, Doug, for. Oh, what's that term right there?
- [38:23]
Adam Schafer
FDA approved.
- [38:25]
Sal Destefano
Yeah.
- [38:25]
Justin Andrews
I don't know if I can pronounce it.
- [38:26]
Sal Destefano
Methyl met. What is that?
- [38:28]
Justin Andrews
Methylmoglobinemia.
- [38:30]
Sal Destefano
So for treat for. It's a condition where the iron in hemoglobin is oxidized. So they'll give you that for that and then some off label.
- [38:39]
Adam Schafer
Okay, wait a second. So it says right here, go back up. Reducing the Ability to carry oxygen. So do you feel like a performance and stamina boost when you're on it?
- [38:50]
Sal Destefano
Methyl and blue? Yeah.
- [38:51]
Doug
Yeah.
- [38:51]
Sal Destefano
I mean, how do you feel when you take it?
- [38:52]
Adam Schafer
Well, I mean, I feel the cognitive side of it, I feel it reminds me of like, can the nicotine thing. It gives me that kind of sharp cognitive, a little bit of energy. But I haven't really used it with the intent of going to train. I've used it for podcast when we were podcasting. Like, if it's near me and I have an option to take it, I'll take it like that. What I haven't done though, is that. And so can have you used it for performance in your lifting?
- [39:14]
Sal Destefano
I have not used it for lifting. I use it for podcasts. If I do use it, it's for podcasting.
- [39:18]
Adam Schafer
Be interesting to. To use it for that reason.
- [39:20]
Sal Destefano
Usually cognitive boosting. Nootropic type supplements are beneficial for. For strength.
- [39:27]
Adam Schafer
Well, it says it helps carry.
- [39:28]
Sal Destefano
I mean, at least to me, increase ATP.
- [39:30]
Adam Schafer
If it helps carry oxygen in the blood, I would think that it would improve pumps. Is that, Is that a fair.
- [39:35]
Sal Destefano
That's fair leap? I don't know. It's a good question. I do know that it'll light up certain tumors and so they'll use it sometimes to find tumors. Oh, yeah, yeah. They'll use it as an. As an antimicrobial, anti. Parasitic. It's been around for a long time. Very, very. And people have been using it for a very, very long.
- [39:53]
Adam Schafer
So maybe it's just because the whole, you know, cognitive supplements of that category totally has boosted. So now we're fine. Like, obviously nicotine's been around forever, but now it's being used that way.
- [40:02]
Doug
That market's growing.
- [40:03]
Adam Schafer
That's when blue has been around for a long time. But now it's being used that way. So what would you say, you know, top five, you know, cognitive supplements. Oh, boy. Would you put. Obviously, methylene blue and nicotine, you would put in there.
- [40:15]
Sal Destefano
Caffeine. Caffeine. Caffeine would be at the top. Then you would go, nicotine's up there. Methyl and blue's up there. Alpha gpc. It's a form of choline. If you need that, that would probably be up there.
- [40:27]
Adam Schafer
Ketone.
- [40:28]
Sal Destefano
Oh, ketones. Ketones are great.
- [40:30]
Doug
You talk about peptides in there.
- [40:31]
Sal Destefano
Peptides. Peptides are interesting. Yeah, peptides are great. You're gonna. Methylene blue will work for most people, though. Most people will take it and they'll notice.
- [40:39]
Adam Schafer
So you just did five, right? There you named. Probably what you thought you would say. That is probably top five those things.
- [40:44]
Sal Destefano
Yeah, for sure.
- [40:44]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [40:45]
Sal Destefano
I got a study for Justin and Doug that I think Adam and I can explain. We'll be able to break this down for you.
- [40:52]
Doug
This is a firstborn thing.
- [40:53]
Sal Destefano
No, no. Yeah, yeah, it must be. Good job.
- [40:55]
Doug
Let me mansplain this to you guys.
- [40:57]
Sal Destefano
No, no. Good job. Okay, so new study comes out that. Let me pull it up so I can read it to you.
- [41:03]
Adam Schafer
Firstborns are smarter, younger.
- [41:06]
Sal Destefano
So. Okay. Oh, is it really related to that fake news? Great college.
- [41:09]
Adam Schafer
Great college.
- [41:10]
Sal Destefano
So studies show that. That older siblings tend to have a higher iq. I've told you guys, that's not the one I'm gonna bring up.
- [41:16]
Adam Schafer
This is well established. Well established. Plenty of examples we have, but doesn't.
- [41:20]
Sal Destefano
Mean it's always true, you guys. There's exceptions. Generally speaking, I think my brother was.
- [41:25]
Doug
Smarter than me, but I could definitely get dominated.
- [41:28]
Sal Destefano
Well, here's what this other study shows. But again, I think Adam and I. I'm gonna. I'm gon. Because I know we'll be able to explain this. So I got one for you guys. Right? So older siblings smarter. Check this out. Younger siblings are two and a half times more likely to become elite athletes.
- [41:44]
Adam Schafer
Oh, wow. Because we beat the.
- [41:45]
Sal Destefano
Out of them.
- [41:47]
Justin Andrews
That is absolutely true.
- [41:49]
Sal Destefano
We put them in training.
- [41:50]
Doug
Training us.
- [41:51]
Adam Schafer
You owe your accolades to us.
- [41:52]
Sal Destefano
Yeah, dude. You get beat up by your older.
- [41:54]
Adam Schafer
Brother, now we get trial by fire.
- [41:56]
Doug
Yeah.
- [41:57]
Sal Destefano
You guys just. Just fit and strong.
- [41:59]
Adam Schafer
I mean, isn't it. I mean, you. I mean, you got. You got your. You all have. Or the two of you have multiple kids. So you've seen this firsthand. It's always the younger one just accelerates.
- [42:08]
Sal Destefano
Yeah.
- [42:09]
Adam Schafer
So much faster. Right.
- [42:10]
Doug
Just the tenacity.
- [42:11]
Sal Destefano
Yeah.
- [42:12]
Adam Schafer
Has it not. It had been that way. Right. For you, for your. All four of yours. You've seen that. I'm sure seeing you've seen it for your two boys.
- [42:16]
Sal Destefano
Well, you know what it is?
- [42:17]
Adam Schafer
I see it in my friend's kids. It's just like that. The. The. It doesn't matter if it's a baby girl, baby boy, doesn't matter. The. The baby is like doing stuff way early.
- [42:24]
Sal Destefano
In fact, you know what it is? They see that, you know, when you're oldest and you're going to go try new things that require kinesthetic ability, like, you know, going across the monkey bars, jumping, you know, climbing up the slide or going down backwards or whatever, it's scary. It's scary. You're the first one and you're kind of timid and you're like, okay. Now of course there's a variance between kids, but when you're the younger sibling, they have a tendency to follow the older sibling. So, you know, you have a two year old watching their four year old siblings do the monkey bars immediately I want to go try it. Whereas it might have taken my four year old till they were three and a half to even try it. So, so they developed those kinesthetic abilities earlier.
- [43:00]
Adam Schafer
It's so true. An example of watching this front row seat last weekend for me. So what I've had to learn this patience with my son and both Katrina and I, because, and we, and I think I've shared with you guys before. Like I, I remember this as a kid of like just, you know, on my terms. I could never get persuaded to do it. And so we've learned to just. We want him to try certain things and you know, again, it's us who wants to if he doesn't want to. We've learned to be like, okay, you know him, in time you will, or whatever example that is. My son is, you know, finally confident to swim around the pool in his water wings. But he's not, not interested in taking him off and learning how to swim right now. He's just, no, I'm cool dad, you know, to want to. And I haven't even got him to jump off the side of the pool. He just a fear of sinking down and like. And he'll get on the little step and he'll like kind like flopping, but he's not jumping off the side. Well, and I, and I've tried. Come on, come on, jump in. Daddy will catch you. You don't got to do all the things. Nah, I'm cool dad. Right. Doesn't want to do it, so. Okay, whatever. Well, this last weekend we had all the kids over and stuff like that at the house and we've got kids that are even younger than him and a couple of the younger girls and, and younger boys are like bombing into the pool, you know, full on, you know, sprinting, then fall and, and you see him just, just watching it.
- [44:19]
Sal Destefano
Yeah.
- [44:19]
Adam Schafer
And then gets up over.
- [44:20]
Sal Destefano
So you're watching this?
- [44:21]
Adam Schafer
Oh yeah. I'm not saying anything. I'm just kind of sitting in the pool doing my thing. I'm not going to say anything. And I just see him walk up, go over and the first one was just like he jumped. He jumps in on his own and then he gets back out and then he's daddy, and he's telling me, oh, he must have did it 50 times non stop. I had to watch him all day do this thing. It is, it's. And it's reassuring for Katrina and I because I know that was an area where we, like, we have to be patient, just be like, listen, he's. He doesn't have that kid in front of him all the time doing that. So it's him exploring everything on his own. It's not like he's way. But like, if he doesn't jump in the pool or swim under the water or do this thing by a certain age, he's gonna.
- [44:56]
Sal Destefano
Something's gonna go wrong.
- [44:56]
Adam Schafer
It's like, just let him do it. And this has continued to happen for us where, you know, he all sudden one day decides he wants to do that thing, and now he's doing it. And so it's funny that it's. I've had to learn that over and over. It really. I struggled with it when he was younger. Want. And I don't know if that's a parent thing. I don't know if just a me thing of that. You know, wanting your kid to hit certain milestones by certain, you know, ages. And if they don't, you start like.
- [45:25]
Sal Destefano
Oh, God, what's going on?
- [45:26]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, what's going on? And why is he not this. And then you go down the rabbit hole. Oh, man, is that gonna be. He's gonna be like this and this is gonna happen.
- [45:32]
Sal Destefano
You know what the challenge is, is because, you know, the capability. Yeah. And they don't.
- [45:36]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [45:37]
Sal Destefano
And so you just want to, like, get them to know, like, you can do it. Yeah. And the tendency for dads. I don't know about you guys, but my tendency is to, like, throw them in the. You're slim. Yeah. Like, let's go.
- [45:46]
Adam Schafer
So that's traumatizing that. Exactly. That's very old school way of doing it. I mean, that's how I was. I was throwing in the deep end. Like, I didn't want to. I was like, I don't remember. It was my uncle. I think it was my uncle.
- [45:56]
Sal Destefano
I think my uncle literally just grabbed.
- [45:57]
Adam Schafer
Me and like, threw me in the.
- [45:58]
Sal Destefano
Middle of the deep end.
- [45:59]
Adam Schafer
I remember screaming, crying.
- [46:01]
Sal Destefano
And then I learned a relationship with your uncle now. Oh, no.
- [46:04]
Adam Schafer
Right.
- [46:05]
Sal Destefano
It's all. It's all connected. It's all connected.
- [46:09]
Adam Schafer
No, totally.
- [46:10]
Sal Destefano
That's so. That's so funny.
- [46:12]
Adam Schafer
You know, did you guys. I. Today I have a day in the life. Did you. I don't know if you guys are watching it right now or not, but my. I started the morning off and I was. I was showing off the, the. The jolie shower head that we were just talking about the other day in my shower. But while I was doing that, I. I, you know, had my ray ban glasses on and I'm showing you I picked up on something and I. Did you guys, did you guys see the miss shower? And do you guys have.
- [46:35]
Sal Destefano
No.
- [46:35]
Adam Schafer
No.
- [46:35]
Sal Destefano
No.
- [46:35]
Adam Schafer
Okay, so I showed you our shower.
- [46:37]
Sal Destefano
Yeah.
- [46:38]
Adam Schafer
And in. There's literally we have this whole thing like a seat area in the shower. And then we have these two areas we can put shampoo and this whole seat area is full of, I don't know, 15 or 20 bottles and jugs. And I'm gonna guess. And then there's another one. And then on the second stuff, there. There's a caldera bar of soap.
- [46:59]
Sal Destefano
That's yours.
- [46:59]
Adam Schafer
That's the only thing, the only thing in the entire item. That's the only item. You have to watch the video. That's the only item in this y. 30 things or more in our shower of stuff. And I, I'm like, we've been together for 15 years now and I always at. I'm like, what could all of this be for like you. I mean, you can only have so many possible things marketed to a loss.
- [47:26]
Sal Destefano
They get marketed to a lot with just hair.
- [47:29]
Adam Schafer
But I mean, okay, I get shampoo, I get conditioner.
- [47:32]
Sal Destefano
There's two things.
- [47:33]
Adam Schafer
I get, you know, yaya stuff. You know what I'm saying? I get, you know, you know, summer's eve. Yeah, yeah.
- [47:39]
Sal Destefano
Ok.
- [47:41]
Adam Schafer
I get, I get, I get. What's the other one that's in there? That, that I. I get. That's like. Okay, so there's the, you know, private part stuff. I get the condition private part stuff. This. Oh, yeah, yeah.
- [47:55]
Sal Destefano
I don't know.
- [47:57]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, I know. Well, our stuff's all.
- [47:58]
Doug
I just use my wife.
- [48:00]
Adam Schafer
You have some internal. They have some internal stuff. So they get marketed to a more protective. So dope. That's for that. Okay, so. But then what are the other 27 bottles for?
- [48:12]
Sal Destefano
I don't know. I know my wife steals my Caldera lab serum. She loves it. She takes it. I have to bring home two because otherwise mine's gone. She loves it so much. I looked at the men's skin care market, by the way, the growth of it. You guys want to guess how much it's grown from 2018 to what it's going to project to be at in 20, 27. Ooh.
- [48:29]
Adam Schafer
I'll take a guess. Has it doubled?
- [48:31]
Sal Destefano
Doubled?
- [48:32]
Adam Schafer
Wow. Yeah, it feels like it double. If. I mean, we're perfect examples that you. I would have never.
- [48:38]
Sal Destefano
I didn't use nothing.
- [48:39]
Adam Schafer
Never guessed in my life that I would have skin, bro.
- [48:42]
Sal Destefano
I washed my face with dish soap if I ever washed it. Yeah. I didn't ever use nothing.
- [48:46]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, nothing, you know, for me, aside from how every day. Aside from how good it feels. Aside from what I like with my psoriasis. Aside from that. The. The true probably thing is that. That you've probably. And I have received compliments for it.
- [49:01]
Sal Destefano
Yeah.
- [49:02]
Adam Schafer
And that's all it took for me was, like, applying it a couple.
- [49:05]
Sal Destefano
I just see a difference.
- [49:07]
Adam Schafer
You see it, and then you hear someone else go, man, your skin looks really good or really healthy. You're like, oh, damn, this stuff does work. I guess I'm gonna do.
- [49:15]
Doug
I use it for, like, all these unconventional things, though. Like, because. Because I get so dry skin, it's not usually my face. It's like my heels and my feet or whatever. I'm just, like, putting.
- [49:25]
Adam Schafer
I do.
- [49:27]
Sal Destefano
Really?
- [49:27]
Doug
Yeah, bro.
- [49:28]
Adam Schafer
I use it on all my psorias, spots on my shins, on my head.
- [49:31]
Doug
Way better than all these lotion.
- [49:33]
Adam Schafer
It feels so much better than that. It keeps the itching down.
- [49:36]
Sal Destefano
Yeah.
- [49:36]
Adam Schafer
It keeps it where it's all oiled up and so it doesn't dry out. It's a. It's. I don't.
- [49:40]
Doug
Just deal with it.
- [49:41]
Adam Schafer
I don't know why they don't actually market it to, like, people that have eczema and psoriasis.
- [49:46]
Sal Destefano
That's a medical condition, so you can't market unless you have. Unless it's approved to treat medical conditions, you can't say.
- [49:55]
Adam Schafer
So dumb.
- [49:56]
Sal Destefano
Yeah, well, that's just regulation. I mean, that's not a bad thing, dude. Trust me. If. If you could.
- [50:00]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, but you don't.
- [50:01]
Sal Destefano
You can sell anything.
- [50:02]
Adam Schafer
You don't need to market it as it cures it and say something like that. Like, why couldn't you market it? Is like that. It helps keep dry, you know? Like, I feel like you can say.
- [50:10]
Sal Destefano
That, but once you start talking about what's classified as a mark as a medical condition, you can get yourself into trouble, which I understand. Could you guys imagine what that would be like?
- [50:20]
Adam Schafer
You know what's lame about that is that that I've done all the. The medical stuff that's been prescribed to me that are steroids and these creams that have a steroid in it that's supposed to tamp down and so they can prove that in their studies and it's been approved medically, but the caldera has been better for me.
- [50:37]
Sal Destefano
I know.
- [50:37]
Adam Schafer
So it's like so lame that.
- [50:39]
Sal Destefano
Well, they had a study that showed caldera lab showed it reduced acne. It's an oil. When's the last time you thought of putting an oil?
- [50:47]
Doug
Nobody would think that.
- [50:48]
Adam Schafer
No.
- [50:49]
Sal Destefano
And they actually showed a reduction in acne from it because it balances out the microbiome of the face.
- [50:54]
Adam Schafer
Doug just pulled that up. It's actually a 68% increase in male skin two year period.
- [50:59]
Sal Destefano
And that's in two years. I did 2018, I think I said to 2027. Projector guys just didn't give up well for a long time.
- [51:10]
Doug
And all of a sudden it's like, oh, some.
- [51:13]
Adam Schafer
Some things we've adopted are good, you know, Some.
- [51:15]
Sal Destefano
Some guys remember the shampoo? What was that? Shampoo? It was.
- [51:20]
Adam Schafer
Plus all of it in one shampoo.
- [51:22]
Sal Destefano
And hair and conditioner in one. Yeah, yeah.
- [51:25]
Doug
Oh yeah.
- [51:25]
Sal Destefano
Combine everything. Of course.
- [51:28]
Adam Schafer
Right there.
- [51:28]
Sal Destefano
Did you ever use conditioner when you used to have hair? Did you have long hair at some point?
- [51:31]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, yeah, I had long hair. I have used conditioner, but I never did it consistently. Yeah, yeah.
- [51:36]
Sal Destefano
Is your hair curly?
- [51:37]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [51:37]
Sal Destefano
Oh, it's like mine.
- [51:38]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, yeah.
- [51:38]
Sal Destefano
Like wavy or curly.
- [51:39]
Adam Schafer
Very curly. Oh, oh yeah. When I was.
- [51:41]
Sal Destefano
When I was long, luxurious.
- [51:42]
Adam Schafer
Yeah. I have. I have some locks. I'll pull some old. I guess you guys have never seen. Justin's probably seen.
- [51:46]
Sal Destefano
I seen you.
- [51:47]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, yeah. He seen me with long curly hair.
- [51:48]
Doug
Before I had it.
- [51:49]
Adam Schafer
I had it grown out all the way.
- [51:50]
Sal Destefano
I had mine down here at one point. Wavy. There's this picture. My family loves to circulate it, I should say my cousins whenever we're teasing each other and I was. I don't remember where I was. I was at some wedding. This was also in the middle of. I used to do these aggressive bulks back in the day where I'd get my body weight up to like £235. And it was aggressive. It wasn't like. Like you could see I was 235.
- [52:11]
Doug
Yeah, you can see it in your face.
- [52:12]
Sal Destefano
Oh yeah. Oh yeah. And so I had long. My long curly. You know, I don't have enough hair to do this anymore, but long curly Italian hair, 230. I just look. I look like I should be on a romance novel for. Not for women, though.
- [52:26]
Adam Schafer
That's how I look.
- [52:28]
Sal Destefano
They love sending that to me and teasing me about that. So. I know it's pretty. It's pretty funny. Anyway, Justin, I want to hear about the. The Cal Trans party. Oh, I don't want to say all of it together.
- [52:43]
Adam Schafer
It's a misleading title. The guys that fix our roads.
- [52:46]
Sal Destefano
Yeah. Yeah. So it's. It was a stripper party. Yeah. What happened here?
- [52:49]
Doug
This is it.
- [52:50]
Sal Destefano
Yeah. This is local news.
- [52:53]
Doug
I guess they threw some party for. I don't know if it was for. For somebody's birthday or if this was like a company party, but they decided to bring strippers to the party, which it was like. I GUESS There was six out of 10 people that they get. They fired immediately for this.
- [53:10]
Adam Schafer
Who thinks that's a good ide.
- [53:11]
Sal Destefano
I don't. Every young man. Young stupid. Are you.
- [53:15]
Doug
You don't think you have an HR department? It reminds me of, you know, during COVID We're at the.
- [53:21]
Sal Destefano
At the.
- [53:22]
Doug
The Cats bar where they. They had stripper. They had a whole like a bunch of executives from Silicon Valley would all go in there and then they all kind of pulled in and had a whole little strip club thing set up like it was a speakeasy right there.
- [53:37]
Sal Destefano
On my commute home. And I had no idea.
- [53:39]
Adam Schafer
Yeah. And that they get busted for it.
- [53:41]
Sal Destefano
Yeah. That place had a good barbecue. They did.
- [53:43]
Adam Schafer
They still do.
- [53:44]
Sal Destefano
Actually.
- [53:44]
Adam Schafer
I think they have new ownership that's actually got it going again. Have you been there in a while?
- [53:47]
Doug
I haven't been there.
- [53:48]
Adam Schafer
We ate there. Not that long. It's been a while now, but it wasn't that long ago with new ownership.
- [53:52]
Sal Destefano
Who was it in here that got the old. Like the. Like the 70 something. Was that you for your birthday? Yeah.
- [53:57]
Adam Schafer
That was a baby.
- [53:58]
Doug
I was there for that dude.
- [53:59]
Adam Schafer
You were there when I died? Yes. Never forget that.
- [54:02]
Sal Destefano
How old were you?
- [54:03]
Adam Schafer
I was 25.
- [54:07]
Sal Destefano
And he hired a 70 something year old.
- [54:09]
Adam Schafer
He. Hi he now.
- [54:10]
Doug
So he claimed she didn't even have a.
- [54:12]
Adam Schafer
So he. I don't know if I ever told. I don't know if I ever told this part of the story on the podcast, but he tells the story that he actually didn't do it that way intentionally. So he actually just. He just like looked up on like the yellow pages or whatever back then.
- [54:28]
Sal Destefano
So you just clicked and he was.
- [54:29]
Adam Schafer
And he actually thought like a legit stripper was gonna like he was trying to just embarrass me at work, like have a stripper come.
- [54:34]
Sal Destefano
You got the best value one. Oh, this, this. Well, you got 50% off deal on this one.
- [54:39]
Adam Schafer
He. He literally This. I mean, he swears. He goes, bro, I didn't. I had it may. Of course it makes. He goes, it's a hundred times better than that. You got what you got. But I did not do that intentionally. I literally just was going to have embarrass you, have a stripper show up to work and then dance in your lap. And so she. I'll never forget, she pulls up in this, like, beat up, like 1980s Mishi Bishi, like, little pickup truck. I mean, dense. Oh, bro, this is.
- [55:03]
Sal Destefano
I swear to God.
- [55:05]
Doug
Remembering.
- [55:05]
Adam Schafer
There's no exaggeration. I was. I saw her coming in. I saw what she. Because she stood out. Like, she had like a sparkly dress. She gets out of the truck, she's smoking, and she.
- [55:16]
Sal Destefano
Wow.
- [55:17]
Adam Schafer
Throws a cigarette down, smashes the cigarette, grabs her a little boom box and comes and, you know, fixes her. Her dress and starts high heel, walking towards it. And we're. I'm like looking like, what in the hell is coming? I had no idea. She comes right to the front desk. I'm like, sitting over at my desk, like, who is this?
- [55:35]
Doug
From some river?
- [55:36]
Adam Schafer
Adam Schaefer. Adam. Adam to the front desk. Do you have a guest here? And I'm like, like, me? No way. Come walking up and she's just like, are you at. I'm like, yeah. She's like, come, can you sit down? And then she has me sit down. She puts a little boom box on my desk, hits play. Happy birthday.
- [55:53]
Sal Destefano
Cigarette voice.
- [55:55]
Adam Schafer
So cigarette. Super cigarette. Deep voice.
- [55:59]
Sal Destefano
Dude.
- [56:00]
Adam Schafer
Oh, my God.
- [56:02]
Sal Destefano
Awesome.
- [56:02]
Adam Schafer
So embarrassing. Call my buddy cussed him out. And then I told him and he's like, no way.
- [56:08]
Sal Destefano
He's like, no way.
- [56:08]
Adam Schafer
She was. I said, swear to God, bro, she must have been 70.
- [56:11]
Sal Destefano
He looked at her ad and it was probably like, you know, winner of this many award, but he forgot to see when she won those awards. Yeah. 1925.
- [56:17]
Adam Schafer
He sent me a picture of the ad. And the ad doesn't say anything describe her at all. It just says, like, stripper gram. You know, hire stripper gram for a birthday. And so.
- [56:27]
Sal Destefano
But that's so much better.
- [56:28]
Adam Schafer
Yeah. He's like, oh, my God, I could not have. I couldn't have planned that to be better. And so super embarrassing.
- [56:33]
Sal Destefano
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- [57:01]
Justin Andrews
Our first caller is Haley from Nebraska.
- [57:04]
Sal Destefano
Hi, Haley.
- [57:05]
Haley
Hi.
- [57:05]
Adam Schafer
How are you?
- [57:06]
Haley
How are you guys?
- [57:07]
Sal Destefano
Good. How can we help you? Good.
- [57:08]
Adam Schafer
Okay.
- [57:09]
Haley
I think I'm just going to start with my email and then I might add a little more context that I think might be helpful.
- [57:15]
Sal Destefano
Okay.
- [57:17]
Haley
So I've been working out my whole life. I was an athlete growing up. I had my youngest son about two years ago and after I had him, I decided I wanted to get more into lifting heavy. I did an in body scan in January and that showed my body fat at 21%. I eat about 130 grams of protein a day. I walk a ton, usually around 10 to 12,000 steps, sometimes more. I've done Muscle Mommy and I'm almost done with anabolic. And so actually just this past weekend, out of curiosity, I went back and did another in body scan and it showed my body fat at 27% from 21. Which 27%?
- [58:04]
Sal Destefano
It was at 21?
- [58:05]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, 21 to 27. And how short of a time that.
- [58:09]
Haley
So the first one was in January?
- [58:10]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [58:11]
Haley
This one was just this past weekend.
- [58:13]
Adam Schafer
Okay. Okay.
- [58:16]
Haley
I don't really have a certain number in mind, but I guess I was just shocked to see it go up 6%. Just a little more context, I guess. I don't really know how much this matters, but I'm 32, about 5 4. At the time of my first scan, I was 139 pounds. This last time I was 143. At the time of my first scan, I was doing more of like a push, pull, lower split and quite a bit more cardio than I'm doing now. I was running about two days a week. Now the only cardio I really do is walking either outside or on my treadmill at an incline.
- [58:58]
Sal Destefano
Okay.
- [58:58]
Haley
So I'm just kind of at a loss. I don't really know where to go from here, I guess.
- [59:03]
Adam Schafer
Do you feel like you went from 21 to 27? Just curious. Do you feel like that?
- [59:07]
Haley
No, I don't. I feel about the same.
- [59:09]
Adam Schafer
Okay.
- [59:10]
Sal Destefano
Yeah. Well, how's your. So your body went up on £4? Yeah. How do your clothes fit?
- [59:16]
Haley
About the same.
- [59:16]
Sal Destefano
Yeah. Yeah. You didn't go up 6%, but are you stronger? That's the other question I ask you. Because you went up in protein, you're walking a lot. You're still strength trained. Do you see any strength Gains in that period of time.
- [59:28]
Haley
I do, but not as much as I had hoped for.
- [59:31]
Sal Destefano
But it didn't definitely go. Excuse me. It definitely didn't go backwards.
- [59:34]
Haley
No, no, not at all.
- [59:36]
Sal Destefano
For you to go from 139 to 143 and to go up 6% body fat, you would have had to have lost muscle also, though, for those numbers to be accurate. Okay. The fact that you got stronger tells me you didn't lose muscle.
- [59:51]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [59:52]
Sal Destefano
So I wouldn't trust the scan, especially if you feel good, if you feel like you look good or you look better, if you feel better. This is the problem I have with scans is. And I know they advertise the accuracy or whatever, they can really mess with the person's head because. Okay, four pounds up. Even if it was a four pound gain of pure body fat with no muscle gain, you wouldn't have gone up 6%.
- [60:17]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [60:18]
Sal Destefano
Body fat, you would have had to lost muscle also. Which. Which makes no sense if your strength stayed the same or went up.
- [60:26]
Adam Schafer
Just out of curiosity too, did you. Did you, like, really pay attention to all the things you could control going into the skin? As far as the time, like, how much carbohydrates you had the day before and how much water you were drinking and this time of day you went. Was it all the same?
- [60:39]
Haley
Do you know, as far as, like, eating and water probably wasn't exactly the same, but both times I did go, like, first thing in the morning.
- [60:47]
Adam Schafer
Okay.
- [60:47]
Sal Destefano
Yeah. Do you have a before and after picture for yourself?
- [60:50]
Haley
Not really. I was actually going through my camera roll trying to see what I could find. I don't really have any that you can see.
- [60:57]
Sal Destefano
Yeah, yeah. This. Yeah. I wouldn't live and die by this scan. If I see an increase in improvement in strength. If I see. Yeah, you're doing things good, you feel good. You're like. You look in the mirror, you're like, what? That doesn't make any sense then. It doesn't, because it's not. It wouldn't be accurate now if your strength went down considerably. If you're like, yeah, my squat went down £50, I'd be like, okay, you might have lost. You might have gained 4 pounds of body fat and lost. Or. Or, sorry, you might have gained four pounds on the scale but also lost five pounds of muscle. So you gained nine pounds total. I mean, I could go and try to figure the math out, but I'm almost positive there would have had to have been a simultaneous loss of muscle to cause a 6% increase.
- [61:39]
Adam Schafer
Yeah. I mean, the reason why I interrupted you when you first go, because it. Right away it jumped out at me is that that's probably not accurate. Even without you finishing your story. I mean, to go up 6% in that short a period of time doing the things you were doing, you would. Boy, you would really have to. You'd really have to have messed things up. And I don't think you did. I think you did a good job job. And, and most importantly, like, you don't feel that way. Like, it's. This is what. This is where I don't like the scans at all. I. Of all of us, I probably, yeah. Use this tool the most and, and like it for feedback. But this is an area where. This is where I would.
- [62:10]
Sal Destefano
I just, I just did the math. What. So the math is this. In order for that body fat percentage to be accurate, where you gained 6% body fat, you would have had to have lost roughly five pounds of lean body mass. So you. Four pounds up on the scale, but also four pounds of muscle loss. That's the only way that that would be accurate. Now the only way that that would be accurate is if I see you. If you lose five pounds of lean.
- [62:35]
Adam Schafer
Muscle, she would be not eating her protein. She'd be running on a treadmill like.
- [62:38]
Sal Destefano
Crazy, and you would not be stronger. Yeah, you, you, you, you also wouldn't even keep the same strength. You would have gone backwards. So it's fault. So. I don't believe it.
- [62:46]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [62:46]
Sal Destefano
Yeah. So, yeah. Don't let it get in your head.
- [62:49]
Haley
Okay.
- [62:49]
Sal Destefano
Yeah, they could totally do that.
- [62:50]
Adam Schafer
This is where I like, remind me where. I don't know if you said it or I didn't pick up on it. Did you say where your calories were at back in January and where your calories at today?
- [63:00]
Haley
I don't really. I wasn't really tracking calories back in January. I have lately just to kind of see where I'm at. And it's usually 1800 to 2000.
- [63:09]
Adam Schafer
Okay.
- [63:09]
Sal Destefano
Okay.
- [63:10]
Adam Schafer
Yeah. I mean, I would keep reverse dieting. I keep going that direction. I think you have more, more room to go that way. What are you following maps anabolic right now?
- [63:19]
Haley
Yeah, I'm almost done. I have like two weeks left.
- [63:21]
Adam Schafer
That's a good program for you.
- [63:22]
Sal Destefano
Let's follow that up with symmetry. Do you have symmetry?
- [63:24]
Haley
I do.
- [63:25]
Sal Destefano
Oh, good. I like that. I like that for you. But yeah, this is. So whenever we're looking at measures of progress, it's a combined picture that we tend to look at now when I'M a, when I'm training a client, I have a pretty good eye on what's going on and I'll use these measures to assist me. But if I'm training you and I'm watching you in the gym and I'm like, oh, wow, we added two reps or we went up 10 pounds on this lift and then you come back, you're like, I went up 6% body fat. I'm like, no, no, no, that's, that's impossible. You would have a lost muscle. I like strength because it's, it's about as objective as it gets and it's also so tightly correlated to muscle. Now it's not 100, so you could get stronger and not gain muscle. You could also lose a little bit of muscle and stay the same strength by improving technique and stuff like that. But you wouldn't see on somebody with 109 pounds of lean body mass a five pound loss in lean body mass with maintenance of strength or even an increase. That, that's not going to happen. So don't worry about it. Keep going, Keep going the direction you're going and if you feel good, you're moving the right direction.
- [64:31]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, I mean, I'm guessing if you're around the 21 range or even 22 to 23 range, you're, you're, you're doing great. You're doing great right now. You're in a good place.
- [64:39]
Haley
What made me want to do this scan the second time was I just feel like I'm not seeing really any physical changes. Like, I feel like I kind of look the same as I did when I first started. But I don't know, maybe that's just all in my head.
- [64:54]
Sal Destefano
It might be. And you know, look at performance. Here's the deal. If you're getting stronger and you're feeling good, the, the look will follow that. But if you focus too much on the look, what we tend to do is we tend to sacrifice performance and strength and how we feel and then we get neither. Okay. Now as an athlete, I think that's a good message for you because you understand that as an athlete, you know, when you're, when you're, what sport was it that you were involved in?
- [65:22]
Haley
Softball.
- [65:22]
Sal Destefano
Yeah. So when you're playing softball, like nobody cares. All you care about is like, am I doing better on the, on the, on the field. So look at performance and the way you're training is great. Especially with an athletic background. Sometimes athletes have a tendency to overdo things, but I think you're Doing things the right way. And you said Your youngest is 2 now? Yeah.
- [65:43]
Haley
Yep.
- [65:44]
Sal Destefano
In my experience, training lots of women. I know you look on social media and you see all these mixed messages. I've trained a lot of women who had babies, a lot of ex athletes that had babies. And it's around year two, like, when the baby's two years old, when they start to really feel like themselves. I mean, it's a slow progress, but it's right around when the kids two where they're like, oh, yeah, I'm back. And I know we see on social media women like, oh, you know, four months later, five months later. Baloney. It's like, it's about two years that women tend to be like, oh, yeah, I'm 100%.
- [66:12]
Adam Schafer
Haley, are you. Are you in our private forum yet?
- [66:14]
Haley
I'm not. Nope.
- [66:15]
Adam Schafer
Okay, I'm gonna have Doug put you in there, too. That way, too. As you're going through this, and if you want. I don't know if. If tracking calories gets you obsessive or you just. You're avoiding it for a reason, but if you're open to it. But we can start doing that, and we can get a even closer look at what's going on. So if we knew, like, where you were, January, where you are now, that would help tell a little bit more of the story. And so if you want to get a little more granular, that would be. The next thing I'd ask you to do is like, hey, just stay the course, but just keep tracking like you are. So we can kind of keep a look at, you know, say, 30 days from now. And. And I think you can absolutely keep reverse dieting. I'd keep adding some calories. Just 100, 200 calories a day, and that range, you know, and try and get stronger. That would be the main focus.
- [66:57]
Sal Destefano
Okay.
- [66:58]
Haley
Okay. I can do that.
- [66:59]
Adam Schafer
All right, Haley.
- [67:00]
Sal Destefano
Thank you.
- [67:00]
Haley
Okay.
- [67:01]
Thank you, guys.
- [67:02]
Sal Destefano
You got it. Yeah. That's something.
- [67:04]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, that's.
- [67:04]
Sal Destefano
Obviously, I had to do the math, because I'm like, yeah, I had to do the math.
- [67:08]
Adam Schafer
I mean, when I interrupted her, because I jumped out at me, I was just like, when was this test taken? Like, a year ago or. No. January. No way. She didn't. She didn't. And, you know, here's the thing, too. So 21 is. Is pretty lean for a girl.
- [67:20]
Sal Destefano
It is.
- [67:20]
Adam Schafer
Okay. So one of the things with these things are already could be very inaccurate. The leaner you get, the more inaccurate they become. It's really easy to. I remember when I was down in the really single digit range and I was tracking. Oh. And I was tracking every week. I was just obsessing about this, you know, I was. And I was like, oh my God. I had to stop tracking that much because how much I was fluctuating on the, on the body scan. And I was like, there's no way I'm gaining and losing that much muscle and fat in that short period of time. But it's because you're so lean that you can really manipulate that with water and carbs and everything. So, yeah, I think she's probably doing really good. She probably looks really good too. Yeah, I'm guessing she's he's especially ex athlete. Probably has good muscle and softball as.
- [68:01]
Sal Destefano
Those girls tend to have good muscle.
- [68:03]
Adam Schafer
Yeah. Yeah.
- [68:04]
Justin Andrews
Our next caller is Victor from North Carolina.
- [68:06]
Sal Destefano
What's up, Victor?
- [68:07]
Adam Schafer
How you doing, Victor?
- [68:08]
Victor
How y' all doing?
- [68:09]
Sal Destefano
Good, man. How are you?
- [68:11]
Adam Schafer
I'm good. A little nervous.
- [68:12]
Victor
Just like some mellow to help me calm down.
- [68:14]
Sal Destefano
So hopefully that'll work. How can we help you?
- [68:17]
Victor
Yeah, before I get to my question, can I give a quick shout out?
- [68:20]
Sal Destefano
Yeah, of course. Yeah.
- [68:22]
Victor
Shout out to my wife. She's been awesome with doing these math programs with me. And a quick shout out to my small group. My church has these small groups that meet throughout week. And a special shout out to Craig, Julio, Jason and Justin who've been doing match programs for the last few years as well.
- [68:37]
Adam Schafer
All right, man, that's awesome.
- [68:40]
Victor
All right, so question here. I was on the show last year asking about how we know when you're ready to move to a higher volume program. At the time, I had just started Matt's power lift and by the end of it I had some solid PRs. The one I was most proud of was pulling 405 on the deadlift.
- [68:54]
Sal Destefano
Nice.
- [68:54]
Victor
Before that, my heaviest deadlift was at 350, but that was with straps, sleeves, poor mobility and had a body weight that was 50 pounds heavier.
- [69:01]
Sal Destefano
Wow.
- [69:01]
Adam Schafer
Wow.
- [69:02]
Victor
This time around, I was 50 pounds lighter. Started incorporating Matt's prime into my warm ups. Followed the blueprints to a T and didn't use any accessories. So no straps, no belts, no anything.
- [69:13]
Adam Schafer
Wow.
- [69:14]
Victor
The deadlift is my favorite lift and I've set a goal to hit 500 pounds by the time I turn 40 next August. That gives me about a year to make progress. So my question is, do you think that's a realistic goal? Is it reasonable to expect a 100 pound jump on my deadlift in a year? On top of that, I'M also aiming to drop another 30 to 40 pounds and maintain around 18 body fat. I grabbed a bunch of programs during the Black Friday sale and came up with a plan for the ones I haven't run yet. Here's what I'm thinking. I'm currently running Maps Transform, then plan to go into Maps Maps Split followed by Maps Cardio, the Map Strong, and finally Maps Old Time. If everything goes smoothly, I'd wrap up all time just a few weeks before my 40th birthday. Does that order make sense for someone chasing a 500 pound deadlift while also cutting fat? Would you recommend changing anything? Also, if I'm priming before each workout, would I still need to run performance of symmetry to address imbalances? I saw that all the time includes some unilateral work. Would that be enough to help correct those issues? And one more fun question, just for fun. If 500 is realistic, is 600 completely out of the question?
- [70:19]
Adam Schafer
Okay, so real quick, I, I, I, I love the programs you're choosing, but if the main goal is to get my deadlift. Yeah. Then, then it would look very different. It would look like you're living mostly in power lift with just some interruptions with something like symmetry or old time. Because that's what's going to get you to the deadlift the fastest, if that's the main goal. But for overall, the program choices I think are great that you would be doing.
- [70:44]
Sal Destefano
What's your body weight?
- [70:45]
Doug
Great and balanced.
- [70:46]
Sal Destefano
But what's your body weight at?
- [70:48]
Victor
Yeah, body weight currently at 268.
- [70:51]
Sal Destefano
Oh, you're a big dude. How tall are you?
- [70:53]
Victor
Six one.
- [70:54]
Sal Destefano
Yeah, a 500 pound deadlift is realistic. Trying to get to a 500 pound deadlift while also getting lean, not so realistic. Yeah, it's one or the other. So you know, if you're trying to get stronger while losing weight real hard, that's risk of injury city. You're just, you're really increasing your risk of injury. So be very careful with that. It's either one or the other. And you can alternate, right? You can go cut, try to maintain, then go into a bulk, try to gain and get stronger. It's during those sprints, during those bulks that you can chase the deadlift.
- [71:29]
Doug
Specificity wins always as much as, you know, all full body strength and really building that foundation. I think you probably have a pretty good foundation now. We have to get a little more specific in your focus towards that goal.
- [71:43]
Sal Destefano
So how long have you been deadlifting consistently?
- [71:46]
Victor
Oh, they're about all your Programs for about two to three years now.
- [71:50]
Sal Destefano
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You could get to 500. Yeah. But you got to be patient and what you don't want to do is, is push too hard too fast. So, so whenever you get a jump in your deadlift your, the tendency, the desire, the temptation is going to be to keep jumping. That's when you back off. Oh, okay, I just hit a new pr. I'm going to back off for a couple weeks before I start to scale back up. Otherwise you'll give yourself, you'll slow yourself down.
- [72:19]
Adam Schafer
I think probably a good strategy for what you're trying to do would be something like this would be I would run maps Power lift in a bulk and run maps old timey or map symmetry in a cut. Yeah. So and I would just toggle between those two programs for the next year. Like that will address so any sort of maybe imbalances moving in different planes, unilateral work, you know, interrupting that and then right back to power lift. And, and when you're in power lift you're in a calorie surplus and you're trying to gain and trying to chase numbers. When you're in the symmetry or old timing it's about the movement and you're cutting. So that's, that's probably what I really.
- [72:55]
Doug
Like, old time strength, especially for grip strength in you know, unilateral deadlifts. Like you're not going to do that in any other program. So it's going to fill a lot of gaps coming back to your byline.
- [73:07]
Adam Schafer
So that would you toggle that like I was saying? Yeah, I think so too. I like that a lot. And doing a cut so that you, you know, keep body fat percentage low and you don't put. But then when you're trying to chase the numbers and get increase the deadlift you then you're going to want to increase your sales point.
- [73:21]
Sal Destefano
Here's another tip too for because now you're starting to get into like some big numbers is don't chase a bunch of lifts at the same time. That's going to be a tendency in a bulk. Say oh, I'm going to max my bench out. I'm going to get this overhead.
- [73:33]
Adam Schafer
Great point.
- [73:34]
Sal Destefano
Focus just on the deadlift and when you back off on the deadlift then you can focus on the squat because the squat has a lot of carryover to the deadlift. Okay, so you're going to back off on your deadlift for a while. Oh, I just hit an EPR for the next three weeks I'm going to back off a little bit. And on that during those three weeks I can kind of push my squat a little bit.
- [73:51]
Adam Schafer
Okay.
- [73:52]
Sal Destefano
There's a lot of carryover you could even do.
- [73:53]
Adam Schafer
I love that advice. In fact, fact, I would take that to the next level and go like this. When you're running Power lift on the first time it's deadlift focused and just kind of cruise through the other ones in a sense. And then you go to the old timing, then when you come back to deadlift or when you come back to power again, go to squat and then on the third time you come back go on deadlift again. And by that third time you're hitting power lift and you're focused on deadlift. That deadlift's gonna come up. How much? A hundred is a big goal, but I definitely think it'll go up, it'll go up from that kind of programming focus. And that's a, that's a great point. Great, great. I'm glad Sal said that because that's a mistake that I think a lot of guys will make. That's what I did is in powerlift trying to make PRs in all of them. It's like if you really want to see deadlift, put that energy and stress into that and then kind of. And by cruise I don't mean like go super light but just don't be trying to hit PRs on the other lifts.
- [74:45]
Sal Destefano
Okay.
- [74:46]
Victor
Yeah, sounds good.
- [74:46]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [74:47]
Victor
My, my long term life goal is to be able to drop the body weight, get a body fat percentage.
- [74:52]
Adam Schafer
So.
- [74:52]
Victor
But definitely wasn't trying to cut too aggressive while trying to get to the deadlift. The deadlift is kind the gulf by the. My birthday, it's next August so I was hoping like running the different programs, changing modality might encourage, might be beneficial and kind of going up and down and with the bulk and cuts it.
- [75:08]
Adam Schafer
Is, it's a, it's a good idea what you're doing. It's just if you just don't want.
- [75:11]
Sal Destefano
To try to get aggressive cut while trying to get a PR and you.
- [75:14]
Adam Schafer
And you are also going to get more benefit from running power lift more often and frequently. If the goal is to get the deadlift up. If, if we had a five year time horizon then following it the way you're doing it will probably lead to that over the course of a couple years. If we have like hey could I realistically buy 40 hit 500 well then we're going to focus a little more on power lift, like just power Lift with just the. And we're only interrupting it with old time to address like what Justin was talking about. That's. And that, that's. That would get you the. To the path the fastest. But your idea is a great overall long term game plan to still increase deadlift. It just might take longer because of that. Makes sense.
- [75:54]
Victor
£600 unrealistic.
- [75:56]
Sal Destefano
£600 is next level. So now you're at, you're talking elite.
- [76:00]
Doug
Which 500 first?
- [76:01]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, bro, 500. 500 is a legit goal. That's a. And 100 pound jump. That's a legit. But it's doable.
- [76:08]
Sal Destefano
Few people could deadlift 500. Very few people could deadlift 600. So yeah.
- [76:13]
Victor
So yeah, I'm gonna bend just a few people.
- [76:18]
Sal Destefano
Yeah.
- [76:18]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, that's good.
- [76:20]
Victor
I want to be the strongest dude in church.
- [76:21]
Sal Destefano
That's all good. Yeah. Awesome. Love. Awesome.
- [76:25]
Doug
Get after it, man.
- [76:26]
Sal Destefano
All right.
- [76:26]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, you have, you already have everything that we talked about program wise that you need. Right? You've already got old time. Okay, cool.
- [76:32]
Sal Destefano
You got power left symmetry.
- [76:34]
Adam Schafer
Okay. Okay. You're good to go there, bro.
- [76:35]
Sal Destefano
All right, man.
- [76:36]
Victor
I loaded up on Black Friday.
- [76:37]
Adam Schafer
Yeah. Hey, keep us posted. I'd love to hear how, how this goes, man.
- [76:41]
Victor
All right, sounds good. Thank you for the time, guys.
- [76:43]
Adam Schafer
All right.
- [76:43]
Sal Destefano
You got it, bro. Yeah, that, that was.
- [76:46]
Adam Schafer
I got fun question.
- [76:48]
Sal Destefano
I got up to 5, 535, 40. And it was so hard to keep to go up from there. Oh, yeah. And then what I did is I started to back off and then I'd focus on squatting and then that would contribute to my deadlift. And that's also when I started incorporating bands and chains. So when I would back off on my deadlift, what it looked like was I'm not pulling the 535. I'm pulling more like 450. But I have chains on it or I have bands to give me that kind of progressive resistance. Yeah. And then things went. Then things really took off. That's when I was able to get to 600.
- [77:19]
Adam Schafer
I got to 555 and I just, I stayed there for a long.
- [77:22]
Sal Destefano
I couldn't.
- [77:22]
Adam Schafer
It was tough for me to get beyond that.
- [77:24]
Sal Destefano
Well, it's a big number, dude.
- [77:25]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, that was, that was. But he's a big dude though. So he does have.
- [77:28]
Sal Destefano
And he's tall. He's got long arms.
- [77:29]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, yeah, so he's got that working for him.
- [77:31]
Justin Andrews
Next caller is Katrina from California.
- [77:33]
Sal Destefano
Hi, Katrina.
- [77:33]
Adam Schafer
How you doing, Katrina?
- [77:34]
Doug
Morning.
- [77:35]
Katrina
Hi, good morning. Well, first off, I Just want to say that you guys got me into this industry. I started listening four years ago. I was a flight attendant through the pandemic and just realized that that was not going to be for me. And so I got into the fitness industry and just started to listen to you guys and got deeper into it. So I really appreciate you guys for just kind of being that in my ear and telling me, like, you know, how to be the best person I can be for my clients.
- [78:03]
Adam Schafer
Awesome.
- [78:04]
Sal Destefano
Right on. All right, man. How can we help you?
- [78:07]
Katrina
So I'll just read off my question. I've been a personal trainer at a Big Box gym for about four years, and so I've been transitioning and becoming a mobile trainer and stretch practitioner. Most of my clients kind of have a home gym setup, but I also have, like, equipment with me, and I just wanted to know, like, what are some equipment that I should definitely make sure that I have or if my clients are able to get. What am I not thinking about and, like, any versatile tools and things like that that I should be considering?
- [78:45]
Sal Destefano
Yeah, good question. Okay, so what's making you want to switch from being in a gym to just training people in their homes?
- [78:55]
Katrina
I like how personal it is to be in their homes. Most of my people are kind of more like they're very busy. Most of the time, they're busy moms, and it's hard for them to even get in and be consistent. So the easiest thing is, like, I go to them and it seems like it's turning into kind of like a luxury service, and I kind of enjoy it. I kind of like running around and not being at the gym and like, oh, my God, I only have five minutes. I gotta go eat or use the restroom or something like that. So.
- [79:27]
Sal Destefano
Good answer. That's the right answer. Because if you said it's because I want a better business or something like that, more money. Yeah, no, that's the right answer. That's for the right reasons. And you said you're training a lot of, like, busy moms.
- [79:41]
Katrina
Most of the time they're busy moms, but I have a little bit of everybody.
- [79:44]
Sal Destefano
Are they alone with you when you're training them or the kids there, too?
- [79:48]
Katrina
They're. Most of the time, they're alone.
- [79:49]
Sal Destefano
Okay. The reason why I'm asking you is because if their kids are there too, then some of the stuff I would have you bring would be for the kids, right?
- [79:57]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [79:57]
Haley
No.
- [79:57]
Katrina
No kids.
- [79:58]
Sal Destefano
Okay. That's tremendously valuable to some clients, but. Okay. It's just you and them Them, they have, they have basic to moderately equipped home gyms. What is, do they have at home? Yeah.
- [80:07]
Doug
Do they have dumbbells already?
- [80:09]
Katrina
Yeah, it depends. So like I have adjustable weights, I have a trx, I have sandbags, I have all the types of bands and so I bring that with me. And then some people, they might not even have a bench and I'm realizing we should probably at least have one of those. But they'll have like a Bosu or like a Swiss ball and just kind of depends. Some people have the means for it and they can get like a rack if they want to. But I also want to suggest the correct things.
- [80:37]
Sal Destefano
You don't.
- [80:38]
Doug
Do you have a pull up bar that goes over the door?
- [80:40]
Katrina
No, I guess I should get one of those. But then it's just like all these things in my car.
- [80:45]
Doug
Hey, I know that was always the hardest one to get for in home was to really get the last.
- [80:49]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [80:49]
Katrina
Like any of the pull down stuff is like.
- [80:51]
Sal Destefano
Yeah.
- [80:51]
Doug
Then you can hang your, yeah, your, your TRX off of it as well.
- [80:55]
Adam Schafer
And you can use, and you can use that. I think that's a good call because then you can also use the bands to support people that can't do a full body. Like a pull up bar is a, is a good move.
- [81:03]
Sal Destefano
Yeah. But you know, honestly, I mean, I'll give you this, the like straight up answer. You don't need to bring anything. Yeah, you really don't need anything because they have a few things and you can even just do this with body weight. In my experience, the mobile trainers that bring the most value tend to bring things that are unique to the trainer. So what do I mean by that? I had this one trainer that did both, both in studio, but also mobile. But she also understood bodywork. So the one thing she would bring with her was a massage table. Yeah, that was really valuable. Like the clients love the last 20 minutes of the workout where she would do. Yeah. So that's super, super valuable. You already have the trx. You do stretch. So I would say yoga block. If you don't have one. You know, things that, you know, straps that could assist with the stretching part because I'm assuming you're doing it with them or walking them through.
- [81:57]
Katrina
I normally just do assisted stretching, so I stretch them.
- [82:00]
Sal Destefano
Yeah. And that would be it. Really, I mean, you don't really need to invest. I mean it depends on how long.
- [82:05]
Doug
You'Re doing it for because you know that can get pretty monotonous and it's really hard to progress so, you know, one thing I did, because I did this for a long time and I had to, you know, kind of convince them to upgrade their, their situation. So this is where we have like PRX racks and we have things like. So we could designate an area like in the garage or in the backyard where we can, you know, kind of outfit that a little bit more with like a barbell and be able to actually get a little more effective workout out of it.
- [82:35]
Sal Destefano
Yeah. Right.
- [82:36]
Katrina
Okay.
- [82:36]
Sal Destefano
How many clients do you have? Mobile?
- [82:39]
Katrina
Say that again?
- [82:39]
Sal Destefano
How many clients do you have that are mobile?
- [82:41]
Katrina
Um, I probably have about 12 clients right now. I just did Excel spreadsheet and I should probably know that answer.
- [82:49]
Sal Destefano
That's great. That's really, really good.
- [82:50]
Adam Schafer
That is good. That's a good place to start, for sure. Trainer course is where I'd put you. So the. Because now you're at the business side, it sounds like you're equipped as the training part and the education and the stuff you're doing and you know, your clientele. The next part would be marketing yourself and how to scale your business.
- [83:06]
Sal Destefano
I was just going to say the hardest part about being a mobile trainer is not the equipment or the training, it's building your business. That's right. That is of all the ways you could train people, Studio, big box, gym, mobile. Mobile is the hardest. To grow your business, you do have.
- [83:24]
Doug
A big advantage, right. You're. You're solving their pain points. You just have to really like, speak to them.
- [83:29]
Sal Destefano
That.
- [83:29]
Katrina
Yeah. So to solve that problem, what I've done is like, I'm not sure if you're familiar, but I'm in like Carlsbad, Encinitas area.
- [83:36]
Sal Destefano
Yeah, we know it very well. I know it very well.
- [83:38]
Katrina
Okay. Yeah. So I'll set up right on the beach of Carlsbad. There's like a walkway that like all the. It's basically moms walking during the day. And I just set up my table and I say, hey, I can give you a free demo stretch.
- [83:52]
Sal Destefano
That is awesome.
- [83:52]
Adam Schafer
Great.
- [83:53]
Sal Destefano
Yeah, that's a great place. And you're reaching a really, really a market that really needs good trainers.
- [84:00]
Adam Schafer
Any, Any desire to do virtual training too, to complement the business?
- [84:06]
Katrina
Totally. Yeah, it would be nice because sometimes, you know, filling up my schedule is really great and then you're just running around like a crazy person.
- [84:13]
Adam Schafer
Did you, did you apply to be one of our trainers? No, we just opened up for virtual coaches.
- [84:19]
Katrina
Oh, okay, cool.
- [84:21]
Adam Schafer
Where we actually sent. We actually send the leads your way.
- [84:23]
Sal Destefano
Way.
- [84:24]
Katrina
Oh, that sounds amazing. I'll look into that.
- [84:27]
Adam Schafer
Yep. What's the. Where's. What's Kyle's website? He's got it@mindpump. Trainer.com is that boy. Let me, Let me. I'll have Doug look it up and email to you the landing page for where you apply and. Apply. Apply. You'll end up talking to Kyle and Katrina probably. What is it? Yeah, mindpump jobs.com.
- [84:48]
Sal Destefano
Okay.
- [84:48]
Haley
Thank you so much.
- [84:49]
Sal Destefano
You guys apply there. Hey, I talk to guys and they said I should apply that.
- [84:53]
Adam Schafer
And then. And then probably have Ann talk to you about the trainer course and the things that we're doing for the trainers to help scale their business. So those two things is probably the direction I'd point you, but you got.
- [85:01]
Katrina
Something I want to jump into. I'm just, like, traveling until September, and then I'm going to put everything on hold and just like, really hone in as hard as I can.
- [85:09]
Adam Schafer
Awesome.
- [85:09]
Sal Destefano
Good for you.
- [85:10]
Adam Schafer
Awesome.
- [85:11]
Sal Destefano
Yeah. Great job so far. 12 mobile clients. A big deal. That's really good.
- [85:14]
Katrina
Yeah, I love it. It's great, Great, great.
- [85:17]
Sal Destefano
Well, I look forward to hearing from you.
- [85:18]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, we'll stay in touch for sure.
- [85:19]
Katrina
Thank you. I appreciate you guys.
- [85:23]
Sal Destefano
That's the hardest way to build your business. I know.
- [85:26]
Adam Schafer
That is discourager. I hated. I hated that, dude.
- [85:29]
Sal Destefano
You don't like doing that.
- [85:29]
Adam Schafer
I did not. And for a lot of. Actually, what we're talking about, charge the grip for it.
- [85:33]
Sal Destefano
I mean, you have to because you got to drive there.
- [85:37]
Doug
But yeah, it's a total pain to organize your entire day around all that.
- [85:40]
Sal Destefano
What worked for me with mobile training was that if I did a good job, I ended up training the family. So then my extra. The next client was the husband.
- [85:48]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, yeah. You know, you, You. What she's doing, though, is great, though. I think if she has a niche market she's really good at and she's doing, like, pelvic floor stuff and she's doing a lot of stretching and body work in addition to, like, a handful of exercises that she helps these clients with. I think that could be really cool. I think that for me, it was really. It was. I was bored to death in living rooms.
- [86:11]
Doug
It's very limited.
- [86:12]
Sal Destefano
Yeah. Yeah. But I tell you what. If for. Especially if you're a female trainer, this is an incredible market.
- [86:18]
Adam Schafer
I actually think it's better for a female trainer. It's less intimidating to invite. I think that was also another challenge that I had a. A man, like, not a lot of husbands. The husband watching from the living room, bro. I can't tell you how many times. First. First couple sessions. Husbands were home from work those days.
- [86:34]
Sal Destefano
Handsome ass. Super handsome. Adam walks up to the room here to train your wife. Oh, you are?
- [86:40]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, it just, it felt. Felt awkward because of that. But that's so for her, it's probably a lot different than what it was for me, so. But I mean, to have that many clients already, that's a, that's a great start. Totally.
- [86:50]
Sal Destefano
Totally.
- [86:51]
Justin Andrews
Our next caller is Jennifer from Louisiana.
- [86:54]
Sal Destefano
Hi, Jennifer.
- [86:54]
Adam Schafer
Jen. Hello.
- [86:55]
Haley
Hey guys.
- [86:56]
Adam Schafer
How you doing?
- [86:56]
Sal Destefano
How come? Good.
- [87:00]
Haley
Well, I'll just read through my email really quickly to kind of give you the background and then hop to my questions, if that's okay.
- [87:06]
Sal Destefano
Yeah.
- [87:08]
Haley
Okay. Well, first of all, thank you all so much for having me. I found your podcast sometime in 2022. It's been a game changer for me. You've helped reshape not only how I approach fitness, but how I think about food and exercise and long health. I wanted to write in for a while and now felt like the right time. I'm a 38 year old mom who gained significant weight during both of my pregnancies. Like many women, I was already dealing with the yo yo weight struggle prior to adding any extra baby weight after having kids, it felt like I would never bounce back. I lost myself in the process trying to do that. Over the years, I've tried every kind of fat diet, keto, low carb, tracking calories and macros, diet pills, everything, you name it. Some work short term. I managed to lose around 70 pounds between 2020 and 2024. But I always end up back in the same place, burnout, disappointed and battling binge eating cycles that I couldn't break. Before starting a GLP1 in June of 2024, I was working hard in the gym. Thanks to your podcast, I had broken up with the high intensity cardio focused workouts and have fallen in love with lifting heavy. I was beginning to see real results and I felt strong and capable. Food still had a grip on me mentally and my weight loss would stall once again. After starting a GLP1, my training intensity decreased some as I didn't always feel fuel to lift heavy, but I did my best to stay consistent. You know, two to three workouts a week and trying to walk daily. I never gave up, just adapted. I also have lower chronic lower back pain that I've been working with a chiropractor and recently a pain specialist to stay proactive and keep moving. One year on my GOP one changed everything. I lost an additional 42 pounds. I broke free from binge eating for the first time. I finally felt at peace with the food. I stuck with workouts and walks even when the motivation was low and I focused more on health and consistency. After a year, I took a two month break from medication to kind of see where I stood, quickly realizing that it was easy for emotional eating habits to come back in again. That break was powerful because it confirmed that the medication isn't a crutch, it's a tool. And now I'm choosing to use it again, this time with more clarity and long term vision. Now I'm not just chasing fat loss. I'm focused on building lean muscles, strength and a resilient body that I can rely on. I've learned so much from your podcast and I've also invested in some of your programs such as aesthetic anywhere and Maps 15. Over the past year, I haven't maintained a consistent routine, just choosing a few foundational exercising and alternating between upper and lower body. My priority was simply moving the weight where I could focus on my therapy exercises to address my lower back pain. So my questions are, I mean, I'd obviously love your insight on this phase of my journey. What's the best way to support muscle growth and prevent muscle loss while on the medication? How should I approach fueling and recovery when hunger cues are low but training is still a priority? And what kind of mental shifts do you recommend when transitioning from years of dieting into a performance and strength driven mindset?
- [90:29]
Adam Schafer
Great question, man. Great place too.
- [90:31]
Sal Destefano
You begin.
- [90:32]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, incredible.
- [90:33]
Sal Destefano
I appreciate your vulnerability and your honesty. You really helped a lot of people right now by talking about. So here's the approach. I would go with the GLP one. Is your doctor, the one that's prescribing it, are they open to adjusting the dosage? Dosage?
- [90:48]
Adam Schafer
Are you on preloaded pills?
- [90:50]
Haley
Well, I just started back on it, so I'm on the lowest dose. I just started a week ago. I'm at a new clinic. We did a bunch of blood work and things. So we've, you know, there's some other things that I've actually looked into as well within hormone therapy and things like that. So right now I'm a lowest dose.
- [91:06]
Sal Destefano
Okay, so what you want to do with the GLP one is if you're, if you're looking to really change those behaviors and habits, habits in the long term so that eventually the promise is I can come off and not rebound. Okay. What it looks like is you're gonna use the minimum effective dose of the GLP1. Now what does that mean? What that means is you're gonna use enough of it to where you could still battle and struggle, but you don't feel like you're losing. What you don't wanna do is use so much of the GLP1 that now you're under eating and it's like crushes. Yeah, I'm not even hungry.
- [91:38]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [91:39]
Sal Destefano
So you wanna.
- [91:39]
Haley
Yeah, it got to that point, which is why I kind of got off of bit. I got to the point where I was kind of sick of food. I didn't like that feeling.
- [91:47]
Sal Destefano
Right.
- [91:47]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [91:47]
Haley
Maybe you know, coming down, you know, exactly.
- [91:50]
Sal Destefano
Because, because, yeah, you'll lose weight doing that, but it's because you just don't want to eat. And then when you come off the, the, the cues come back and then you're, you're left, you're left unequipped. Right. So think of it like training wheels and what you're going to slowly loosen those wheels to the point where you finally take them off. So use the glp. Just use enough and you're gonna have to play with your dose and work with your doctor so that it's enough for you to eat enough and also kind of like work through some of those challenges but not so little to where you're like, oh my gosh, I can't deal with this.
- [92:22]
Haley
Right.
- [92:22]
Sal Destefano
And it's going to be a slow process is what it looks like.
- [92:25]
Adam Schafer
Are they the preloaded pens or are you actually drawing it the first round?
- [92:30]
Haley
The first year they were the preloaded. I would just go to the clinic and they would give me the pre filled vials. But now it's going to be, you know, I'll load them myself.
- [92:38]
Adam Schafer
Awesome.
- [92:39]
Sal Destefano
So she can play with the pen.
- [92:40]
Adam Schafer
Okay. Awesome. And so, so s. The, the, the traditional way is they'll have what they call their lowest dose, but there's nothing that says you can't go even lower than that. So to Sal's point, like so. And I don't know how much of my journey you listened to when I went through the whole process of taking.
- [92:56]
Haley
I've heard a little bit. Yeah. Of yours.
- [92:58]
Adam Schafer
Yeah. And, and I, I, I ended up playing a lot with the dose and I eventually got to a place where I was, I was lower than what they would consider the low dose dose, but still enough to cancel out the food noise, but enough that I was like, okay, I could eat, I could eat like 2500 calories and be okay. Beyond that, it was hard, but it, so it kept me at A place where I could eat a healthy amount of protein so my body could sustain the muscle, but I didn't have any of the binge things going on at all. So you can do that. You can work with your doctor and see if it's okay to go a little bit even lower than what the low dose is so that you can kick that appetite up just a little bit, but help you with the food noise.
- [93:36]
Sal Destefano
Think of it like strength training. Generally Jennifer, you're going to, if I'm training you with weights, I'm going to give you an appropriate weight. What does that mean? You're going to struggle enough to cause adaptation, but not so much that your form goes off or you hurt yourself or you overtrain. If I go too easy, nothing happens. If I go too hard, we go backwards. So that's how you want to do with this with your GLP one like, okay, what's enough to where I can win this battle? But I still have a little bit of a battle. I still have to develop these behaviors years. I still have to work on some of these challenges, but it's giving me enough help to where I'm not failing all the time. That's where you want to be and you're going to play with that a little bit over time.
- [94:13]
Adam Schafer
And the reason why is because we, we have to hit enough calories and protein so that you can hold or build muscle if we are. So if you're eating 1300 calories or whatever, I don't know what the number is right now, but if you're eating something that low, we're just not going to build muscle that way and we're going to continue to lose muscle at that rate. So we want to find, find a more happy medium calorie wise. Are you tracking to see kind of where the calories are landing by chance?
- [94:38]
Haley
I have not been because that's also been a toxic cycle in my history.
- [94:43]
Adam Schafer
I get it.
- [94:43]
Haley
I'm willing to kind of do it again. But my husband and I had the carnivore kick earlier last year and so since then I've kind of just everything. I try to focus on protein every meal. Protein is the priority before anything else.
- [94:58]
Adam Schafer
That's, that's a good strategy. Then I would just so you know, because you said that I would if you, I was coaching you, I'd ease you into it. I don't know if I'd jump you right to tracking because you, you, you just told me that so I could easily just look at your protein and make sure that we're, we're hitting adequate protein, but we definitely need to be hitting adequate protein. And more likely, if you're doing that and then having a balanced meal, you're probably landing in a healthy enough calorie range.
- [95:20]
Sal Destefano
Yeah. But again, think about it this way. Think of it as a step by step process, process. So you're. Right now you're crawling. You got to learn how to walk before you can run, and then you can learn how to. And once you can walk well, then you can run. So it's a step by step process with your dose and your behaviors and how you feel. And so you're gonna, again, it's like, okay, I, I can see that this is helping with my appetite, this is helping with the strong cravings, but I also am having to work on this a little bit, having to figure out how to deal with whatever it is that triggers you to overeat or to binge. Right. Whether it's stress or anxiety or boredom, whatever. And you, little by little, and you, little by little by little, you work on developing a better relationship with food. And then the biggest thing I'm going to tell you this, Jennifer, is give yourself grace. Give yourself grace. This is not a short process. This is something that you've probably. Well, you said in your email you've been dealing with for a long time, this relationship. And these behaviors were developed over years and years and years and years. Years. They're not going to get erased overnight and you are going to mess up. So expect that you're going to take some steps back and when you do, you got to give yourself grace. Because if you get stuck in that shame spiral, forget about it. Then you're going. Then, then you're. You lost the battle. So it's like, okay, I messed up a little bit. I know I was going to. Let's start over. Let's do the. Okay, you're okay. This is good. This is part of the process. And it's. Sometimes it's going to look like five steps back, sometimes you're going to mess up and then you come and you mess up again and you come back and you mess up again. Again. But give yourself grace. I promise you, over time you'll, you will progress in the right direction.
- [96:54]
Adam Schafer
Jen, have you, have you considered having a coach take you through this process?
- [97:01]
Haley
Not necessarily specific to, you know, the GLP1 journey or anything like that. I've just been, I mean, I, I just work out at home as far as exercises and just try to, you know, you're the only Health and fitness podcast I listen to. So really, you know, any kind of advice you can give is what I, what I get from, you know, for myself.
- [97:18]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, you're doing great. I just, I, I just know how challenging this can be even on a week to week basis. I'd love for, have, have one of my coaches call you and just kind of meet with you and see if that's something that would work as far as helping you out through that process. Yeah. Okay. So if you're open to that, when we, when we hang up, I'll have, I'll have somebody contact you and then talk you a little bit further through some of the things that we would do with someone like you as you're going through this process. All in all, you've done a great job, but you are, you are at a place, place that eventually after you've had a lot of success with GLP1s, this is the place where I think a lot of clients, they're like, okay, I don't want to be on this medication for the rest of my life. I know that it's helped me so much, but I do. And, and you're at that place and so helping you ease out of that and find the balance calories and that relationship with food and everything like that, this is, this is a crucial time for long term success. So if I'll have someone call you and we'll help you through this.
- [98:08]
Haley
Awesome. Thank you.
- [98:09]
Adam Schafer
All right.
- [98:10]
Sal Destefano
Thank you so much for calling in.
- [98:11]
Adam Schafer
Thank you.
- [98:11]
Haley
You, thank you so much for having me.
- [98:13]
Sal Destefano
You got it. Yeah. That's the thing is, you know, the back half of my career training clients, what I really, what I got good at. You know, you meet your clients where they're at. Really the main thing I got good at was giving them grace.
- [98:26]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [98:27]
Sal Destefano
And then they felt that and they were able to screw up and they were okay and they were able to be vulnerable about it and then they were able to get back on and move forward and then it just over.
- [98:37]
Adam Schafer
Time, that's what works 100% why I asked for her to do a coach because this, that's what she, she just needs someone to tell her, hey, it's ok. Yeah, perfect, we're fine. Now do this this week, you know what I'm saying? And just remind her of what a great job she is doing and how far we've come already.
- [98:50]
Sal Destefano
And it's hard.
- [98:51]
Adam Schafer
And it is. And it's hard. And this is a, this is to me, this is the, the greatest challenge of the GLP1 right here is the people once they, they get to their kind of goal where they want to be weight loss wise and now they go, okay, I want to get off of this.
- [99:05]
Sal Destefano
Where do I go from here?
- [99:06]
Adam Schafer
But I know how much it has helped me with the noise ways and I don't. And I know and like she did, she came off, she noticed it right away. And so, so it's like how do I transition that? So a crucial time. And I do agree that a lot of that has to do with the proper grace to give herself. And it's hard to do it to yourself, you know.
- [99:22]
Sal Destefano
100 look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram mindpump Media. We'll see you there.
- [99:27]
Justin Andrews
Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB super bundle@mindpumpmedia.com the RGB Super Bundle includes Maps Anabolic Maps, Performance and Maps Aesthetic nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs with detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos. The RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee and you can get it now. Plus other valuable free resources@mindpumpmedia.com if you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review on itunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is Mind Pump.