2673: Eight Bro-science Hacks that Actually Work & More (Listener Coaching)

Summary

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Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth

Episode 2673: Eight Bro-science Hacks that Actually Work & More (Listener Coaching)
Release Date: August 29, 2025
Hosts: Sal Di Stefano, Adam Schafer, Justin Andrews, Doug Egge

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Episode Overview

In this episode, the Mind Pump crew break down eight classic "bro-science" fitness hacks—traditionally passed around the gym with questionable reasoning—that actually work, just not for the reasons the bros claim. They apply their trademark frankness, deep experience, and humor to separate effective habits from the pseudo-science swirling around the fitness industry.

The hosts also field listener questions on training while sore, fasted training for women, preventing burnout as a trainer, and which of the Mind Pump hosts would survive an apocalypse (with plenty of ribbing along the way). The conversation ranges from practical advice to wild stories, memorable tangents, and moments of real-life wisdom.

Skip to [64:22] for Listener Questions

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introduction & Theme ([00:42] – [02:15])

• Main Theme: Exploring why certain "bro-science" gym habits, often dismissed as myths, genuinely work for many people—just not for the reasons originally claimed.
• Sal: “Bro. Science hacks that actually work. Listen. It’s not for the reasons that they say, but they do work. We’re going to break it down today.” ([01:16])
• Hosts share personal connections to bro-science—Adam recounts living out "meathead" approaches before deepening his knowledge.

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2. Eight Bro-Science Hacks That Actually Work

1. Eating Small Meals Throughout the Day ([04:16]–[08:32])

• Bro claim: Frequent small meals “stoke your metabolism.”
• Reality: No significant metabolic advantage over fewer, larger meals (thermogenic effect evens out).
• Why it WORKS:
  • Makes it easier to eat high protein
  • Aids with portion control and appetite management
  • Provides a psychological benefit: “I know I’m going to get another meal real soon here.” — Adam ([07:20])
  • Encourages food prepping, reducing unhealthy food choices
• Sal: “Typically you need four or five [meals to hit high protein]. I mean, if I took a regular average female and told her to eat 150 grams of protein a day…it's easier to do 25 or 30 in smaller meals throughout the day.” ([06:35])
• Adam: “It taught my clients really good portion control and made them realize how much they were underestimating what they were eating in the past.” ([07:58])

2. The Post-Workout Protein Shake ([08:47]–[11:32])

• Bro claim: You must eat protein immediately post-workout—the “anabolic window.”
• Reality: Little benefit for most outside of elite/2-a-day athletes.
• Why it WORKS:
  • It’s “habit stacking” extra protein intake, helping most people get enough daily protein.
  • Appetite suppression and muscle retention benefits come from hitting protein goals, not the shake timing.
  • Develops a ritual—working out + shake = consistency.
• Adam: “90% of the population don’t hit the optimal amount of protein…ritualizing that workout with a protein shake added an extra 40 grams to their day, which benefited.” ([11:18])

3. Carrying and Drinking a Gallon of Water ([11:32]–[14:49])

• Bro claim: Flushes the system, helps absorb protein, “kidney health.”
• Reality: No magical detox, but…
• Why it WORKS:
  • Improved hydration (most people vastly under-drink water)
  • Encourages replacing sodas/sweet drinks with water
  • Suppressed appetite and more movement (frequent bathroom breaks = more steps)
  • Raises awareness of all-day hydration
• Adam: “Every client that said they were drinking a lot of water wasn’t drinking nearly enough water…quarter gallon was the most.” ([13:13])
• Doug: “You get that brain fog and then realize like, if I’m drinking water, I could actually think more clearly...it follows you around and reminder, constant reminder to drink water.” ([12:44])

4. Fasted Cardio ([14:49]–[18:06])

• Bro claim: Doing cardio fasted (usually first thing in the morning) burns more fat.
• Reality: Fat oxidation may be higher during, but overall fat loss depends on calorie deficit; for most it’s a minute difference.
• Why it WORKS:
  • Creates extra activity if done as a morning discipline
  • Establishes a consistent workout habit (less likely to be interrupted)
  • People who do morning fasted cardio often are more active the rest of the day
• Adam: “When I would get up and start the day and break a little bit of a sweat… the rest of the day, I’m already moving.” ([17:17])
• Sal: “If I wake up early to do cardio and I’ve decided that’s what I’m going to do, I’ll almost never miss it.” ([17:39])

5. “Junk Volume” and Finisher Sets ([18:06]–[20:45])

• Bro claim: Isolation / pump work at the end of a session yields major gains.
• Reality: The key lifts create most gains, but…
• Why it WORKS:
  • Low-stress, low-impact “junk” volume enables extra work without wrecking recovery
  • Can help reach the last 5–10% of progress for advanced lifters
• Adam: “If they... switched the exercises out from these finisher type exercises and replace them with barbell bench press deadlifts, they'd be overtrained...But this type of training has tremendous benefits because it, what it does is it manages the intensity.” ([19:57])

6. Supplements Galore ([20:45]–[23:14])

• Bro claim: You need lots of exotic supplements to build muscle and burn fat.
• Reality: Most supplements move the needle little, but…
• Why it WORKS:
  • Structure and routine around supplementation helps reinforce other good habits (“I’m investing in my goals; I won’t waste it” effect)
  • Scheduled “pills” reinforce discipline and mindset
• Adam: "When I was a kid and I spent half my paycheck...You're not missing, I'm not missing my workout, I'm not missing my diet. I'm not going to be wasting this." ([22:15])

7. Cheat Meals and Cheat Days ([23:14]–[25:45])

• Bro claim: A cheat day resets leptin, "tricks" your metabolism, turbocharges results.
• Reality: "Metabolic boosting" is largely overstated.
• Why it WORKS:
  • Breaks up strict diet regimens, improving long-term consistency
  • Psychological relief and realism = better adherence
  • Undulating calorie intake has true physiological and performance benefits
• Adam: “One high calorie day is not going to put pounds of body fat on you. If anything, it'll give you energy and strength for your workout.” ([25:28])
• Caution: Can fuel restrict/binge cycles if misunderstood; better to reframe as “high-calorie days” than “cheat days.”

8. Flexing & Posing ([25:45]–[27:49])

• Bro claim: Flexing “sharpens” muscle definition.
• Reality: No direct fat-burning effects.
• Why it WORKS:
  • Sharpened mind-muscle connection (CNS “software” upgrades)
  • Enables better muscle activation during resistance training
  • Practical rehab benefits (e.g., for scapular winging)
• Sal: “No athlete on earth can activate a muscle like a bodybuilder...and part of this is because they flex.” ([25:45])
• Adam: “They've refined that neural network totally...The foundation of that is learning to flex that muscle.” ([26:26])

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3. Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Adam: “I was so pro [carrying a gallon water jug] that I had my 60-year-old lady engineer, skinny dude. I had them all carrying jugs of water around.” ([13:09])

Doug: “Supplements—it really are what immovable routine that they build and establish.” ([21:36])

Sal: “No athlete on earth can activate a muscle like a bodybuilder...it has to do with learning how to connect to these muscles.” ([26:09])

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4. Tangents, Stories, & Trivia

• Bill Pearl’s insane 1960s strength ([32:51]–[36:41])
• Extraordinary human feats (DIY C-section tale!) ([36:41]–[39:14])
• Genetics and athletic outliers ([39:14]–[44:49]): Pro athletes with wacky diets, heaviest people in history, leg length torso comparisons.
• Perspective on happiness, home size, and financial freedom ([57:46]–[63:53]):
  “One of the keys to happiness is learning to want less.” – Adam ([57:46])

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5. Listener Q&A ([64:22] – end)

Q1: Should You Train if You’re Sore? ([64:22])

• Summary: Adjust intensity based on level of soreness. Light movement supports recovery. Chronic soreness means you’re overtraining.
• Adam: “If I'm really sore...that’s what the workout looks like. The workout looks like mobility, real lightweight, if anything, and just kind of moving through.” ([64:45])
• Sal: “Some of my best gains were when I would have a light workout on a muscle that was sore and had maybe overdone it.” ([66:34])

Q2: Fasted Training for Women—What To Eat? ([66:46])

• Summary: Entirely individual; listen to the client’s body rather than apply studies uniformly. Light snacks or only water/electrolytes if needed.
• Adam: “If my client works out fasted and feels great, worked out fasted, I ain't changing the damn thing. But if they’re...complaining fatigue, dizzy, low energy...we need to make [a] change.” ([67:46])

Q3: Trainer Burnout—How To Prevent It? ([69:07])

• Strategies:
  • Find personal enrichment in client conversations
  • Schedule time off (and continuing education)
  • Charge more and reduce volume if demand is high
  • Split long work stretches with “sprint/cruise” cycles and mid-day workout resets
• Adam: “Especially if you’re on and you’re a chameleon and you really are giving it all to every client. That’s a massive energy suck for sure.” ([71:31])
• Sal: “Find ways to find your clients interesting and learn from them while you’re training them...then it almost feels like you’re getting the value out of the session.” ([69:04])

Q4: Who Would Survive the Apocalypse? ([74:42])

• Lighthearted banter
  • Sal: Would try to “sell” and build relationships
  • Adam: “Relationship builder”
  • Justin: “Shelter/hunter guy”—quickly goes full feral
  • Doug: Secret prepper, would probably survive longest

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Memorable Quotes & Timestamp Highlights

• On portion control:
  “You’d be surprised what a 500-calorie meal looks like. Most people, American portion sizes are so distorted.”
  — Adam ([07:57])

• On ritualizing protein:
  “They ritualized working out with getting that extra 40 grams of protein...that’s where the benefit came from.”
  — Adam ([11:18])

• On the power of cheat days:
  “It’s more about the benefits of undulating your calories...not labeling it a cheat day.”
  — Adam ([24:12])

• On happiness and owning less:
  “Have you ever looked at what percent of the...income goes to their living expenses? My dad used to tell me...how happy they were being together all the time.”
  — Adam & Sal ([60:38])

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Conclusion & Tone

The episode manages to debunk fitness myths, but with respect for the real psychological and logistical value behind “bro-science” hacks. The conversation is unscripted, humorous, and packed with practical real-world coaching experience. Listeners get actionable insights, stories, and frank coaching advice—with a reminder that the “why” behind habits matters more than the gym folklore behind them.

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For more, follow Mind Pump on Instagram @mindpumpmedia, or check out their programs at mapsfitnessproducts.com.

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Transcript

[Adam Schaefer]

Back to school is better with family.

[Sal DeStefano]

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[Justin Andrews]

To pump your body, your mind, there's only one place to go.

[Sal DeStefano]

Mind Pump Mind Pump with your hosts.

[Justin Andrews]

Sal Destefano, Adam Schaefer and Justin Andrews.

[Sal DeStefano]

You just found the most downloaded fitness, health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump, right? In today's episode we answered listeners questions. People went to Mind Pump Media on Instagram, wrote in questions. We picked four of them to answer. But this was after the intro. Today's intro was 62 minutes long. In the intro we talk about fat loss and muscle gain and fitness and current events in family life. That is a great time, by the way. Also, this episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Butcherbox. Today we talked about the Mind Pump box. So here's what Butcherbox does. They mail grass fed meat, heritage pork crate free chicken, wild caught fish, whatever you want to your door at great prices. Healthy protein, healthy meats at great prices. Go check them out. And go check out the Mind Pump box. Go to butcherbox.com mind pump. You'll get $20 off your first box with that deal. Plus free chicken breast, ground beef or salmon included for free for an entire year. This episode is also brought to you by Brain fm. This is curated music that's been engineered to induce different states of mind. This has been proven with FMRI studies. In other words, you listen to focus, your brain becomes more focused, you listen to sleep, you get good sleep and more. Check them out by the way. Try them out for 30 days for free. See for yourself. Go to Brain FM forward slash mindpump. We also have two days left for the sale this month. Maps 15 minutes half off. If you're interested, go to maps15minutes.com use the code muscle50 for the discount. Back to the show bro. Science hacks that actually work. Listen. It's not for the reasons that they say, but they do work. We're going to Break it down today.

[Adam Schaefer]

This is my type of episode. I like this.

[Sal DeStefano]

Let's go, bro. Yeah, I'm the expert today.

[Adam Schaefer]

Sit back, let me go over these real quick with you guys. You know, I, this is, I, I like this because one, obviously I, I fell in this category of the, the meathead guys that were lifting and bodybuilding and all those things like that. And I learned a lot. And this is, remember, this is later in my career. So I've actually, I've got a lot more knowledge at this point and I.

[Sal DeStefano]

You've trained people?

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, I've trained people. I understand. I have the education, I have the experience, I have a lot more knowledge. I, I kind of know, like, and, and I remember having these conversations with a lot of my bodybuilder buddies that would be giving me tips on the competing time and dieting and all the things that be like, that's not how the science works. But be going, yeah, okay, that makes kind of sense. Let me try that or do that. Like so. And it also not to go off on a tangent, it really is what helped me in the marijuana space because this is very, very similar. There's a lot of bro science in the marijuana space of just passed down knowledge that has made it from generation to generation. And I remember being in that space and hearing it was like, I'm going through both of them at similar times. And so the parallels were just fascinating to me because they're both science and the people are giving good advice for the plant or for bodybuilding. But the way they're describing the science understood that's not how. That doesn't make sense.

[Sal DeStefano]

No, I'm glad you said that. Because the reason why it's called bro science is because you have bros telling you why you should do a particular thing and then you say why? And then they give you the.

[Doug]

Their explanation is a little weird off.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's not actually correct. However, you want to ask yourself, why.

[Adam Schaefer]

Has it passed down?

[Sal DeStefano]

Why is it passed down from generation to generation? Why have bodybuilders done certain things for decades, like clockwork? Is it just because of the culture? Is it because the big ripped bodybuilder before said it? So therefore I'm gonna do it no matter what. And I used to think that's why. Later on I realized that's not why. Bodybuilding is just as competitive as any other sport and they want the competitive advantage. And when you get to know bodybuilders, what actually happens when you meet these people is they're actually the most willing to experiment they're so willing to, to their detriment, they're willing to experiment. The problem, of course, is when they break it down and they explain why it works and it's totally wrong. However, there is a reason why they do it and because it actually does work for some people for different reasons. We'll talk about the first one. Bodybuilders have been promoting or touting the value of eating small meals throughout the day for decades. Bodybuilders will say, look, eat five small meals a day or six small meals a day. And then what they'll say is this stokes your metabolism, ramps up your metabolism. There's a thermogenic effect that if you eat protein all day long, you'll build more muscle than if you would eat less frequently. This is what they would say. Now that's not true. It doesn't stoke fat burning because you eat small meals. The thermogenic effect is basically connected to the size of the meal. So three large meals, three large thermic effects, it's minimal. Six meals that are small, six small thermic effects, it all comes out to the same. And then protein wise, if you eat protein every five hours or so, there really is no additional benefit from eating more frequently. And even then the benefit's kind of small. So they were wrong on that. Yet small meals does benefit quite a bit of people and it helps, especially with fat loss. And here's why. You've probably heard us talk on the podcast, but. Well, definitely, if you've listened for more than five episodes on the value of eating high protein diet. High protein. Protein, first of all does burn more body fat when calories are controlled. It contributes to more muscle when you're in a calorie deficit. It preserves more muscle and it's appetite suppressing. It does lower your appetite, reduce cravings. If you're trying to eat the upper limits of the of the protein intake, that will give you these benefits. It's kind of hard to do. It's hard to do in two or three meals.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yes.

[Sal DeStefano]

Typically you need four or five. I mean, if I took a regular average female and told her to eat 150 grams of protein a day, that's 50 grams of protein for breakfast, lunch and dinner. That's a lot of protein. It's easier for her to do 25 or 30 in smaller meals throughout the day.

[Adam Schaefer]

I'll sell it even more. Since this was when I remember this was one of the myths that you were debunking when we started the podcast and I was in the thick of carrying my meals around. And, and so I remember having to defend this like, okay, here you guys on this podcast talking about how this doesn't matter yet. Here's Adam carrying around his six pack bags everywhere he goes. And let me tell you, the reason why that was, was because one, to the point about protein. Two, portion control. When you're dieting, man, there's no way around getting feeling hungry. If you're in a deficit, especially consistently, you're going to be hungry. And there was something about knowing that, oh, every two hours, I just knew I had psychological benefits. Yes, I knew that. Like, oh, I'm hungry right now, that's okay. In 45 more minutes I'm gonna eat again. You know what I'm saying? And then I'd eat and then before I know it, about an hour I'd be hungry. It's okay, one hour I'll be eating again. Like, so there's that psychological benefit and the, the fact that it's easier to control portion size that way. I think I found that very beneficial to a lot of my clients that, you know, you'd be surprised, you know what a 500 calorie meal looks like. And most people, American portion sizes are.

[Sal DeStefano]

So distorted, they're insane.

[Adam Schaefer]

And so I felt that it taught my, my clients really good portion control and made them realize how much they were underestimating what they were eating in the past. So I loved it for portion control. I loved it for hitting protein intake. I loved it for the psychological benefit of, I know I'm going to get another meal real soon here. I know I'm going to get another meal real soon here. And so even though it didn't science the way that we explained it back in the day as bros, with the thermogenic effect and stoking the fire and all these things, it did have massive benefits that I found worked well, not only personally, but with a lot of my clients.

[Sal DeStefano]

Now there's one more reason I'll add. If you are convinced of this and you are making yourself and you're getting five meals a day, you're probably prepping your food.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yes, that too.

[Sal DeStefano]

You're not going out to buy food five times a day. If you're eating five meals a day.

[Adam Schaefer]

You have to be prepped.

[Sal DeStefano]

You're prepping your meals and so you have prepping, you're hitting your protein targets. The psychological effect of, oh, I get to eat every couple hours. For a lot of people, this is quite effective. Now when you add this to a bodybuilder who's eating 200 plus grams of protein a day. Who's in these calorie deficits definitely going to prep anyway because they're bodybuilders now. It makes a lot of sense. So this is why it works for a lot of people. But it's not for the reasons that they said. Yeah. The next one is the value of the post workout shake. Now they're going to say what they've said in the past. And supplement companies took this around with anabolic window. Yeah. As they're like post workout you have this anabolic window where you activate these receptors, you become more insulin sensitive and you need to feed yourself right away so that the muscles get filled back up with glycogen, those amino acids get in there and you recover and build faster. In fact, they would sell this so hard that they would say your workout's almost wasted if you don't take a shake afterwards. Now there's some truth to what they're saying, but at the end of the day, does it make a difference? No, it really doesn't make a difference. It makes a difference for high performing athletes who are about to perform shortly after, especially if they have multiple workouts in a day. This helps the body replenish glycogen quicker. But most people don't work out. If they work out at all, it's once a day. It's not two or three times a day. So that science doesn't add up. But here's why this tends to help with people when they do this, they get extra protein. It's not lunch, it's not breakfast, it's not dinner, it's an extra 30 grams or 40 grams of protein a day. They get that higher protein intake, which we know on the data contributes to muscle, helps with muscle preservation and a calorie deficit and it has an appetite suppressing effect to an extent. So the post workout shake for a lot of people does work. But again, not for the reasons I.

[Adam Schaefer]

Found that post hard workout I could, I could slam a 40 gram, maybe 50 gram protein shake real quick. By the time I drove to my house and showered from the workout, I was ready to eat another meal again. And for chasing macros, which is what I found myself doing a lot when I was trying to hit my protein intake, it became, it became huge with trying to hit, hit the protein intake that I need to. So I found this very beneficial for clients that struggle with hitting protein intake, which is 90% of your clients have a hard time. So the post, the post workout immediate shake benefited Them for those reasons, not because they hit some sort of magical window that helped them build more muscle. It's that they became more. They ritualized. Okay, because we know the benefit. We know what the research says about habit stacking.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right.

[Adam Schaefer]

And they ritualized working out with getting that extra 40 grams of protein. And since 90% of the population don't hit the optimal amount of protein, ritualizing that workout with a protein shake added an extra 40 grams to their day, which benefited.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right. So like all my clients, that I would have them do this when I thought the benefit was for the wrong reasons. Early trainer, me. Right. They all got benefits. Why? Because they got extra protein. It wasn't, it wasn't anything magical about that post workout period. Next up is the drinking the gallon of water all day long. And we used to make fun of bodybuilders. They'd walk around with a big jug of water all day long and they'd say it's to flush out their system. It helps absorb protein. They need it to flush out their kidneys is what they would say. The truth is you don't need this much water. That being said, a gallon of water does seem to help people with appetite suppression water. You can have what you need and then there's optimal. And optimal water is more than what most people drink. So yes, if you feel, if you drink based off of thirst, you're not going to drink too little water, you're not going to, you're not going to have dehydration. That's what people say. You're going to be dehydrated, you're not going to be dehydrated. If you drink water when you're thirsty, you're not going to get dehydrated. However, what you need versus what's optimal is often different. And drinking more water, what I found with my clients is that typically ate less, they drink less other calories and they, they tend to feel a lot better, in particular their mobility. This is what I noticed with a lot of my clients.

[Doug]

Oh yeah. And cognitively, like you get that brain fog and then realize like, if I'm drinking water, I could actually think more clearly. I have a little bit more energy. And really it's just like a good reminder that if you're not consciously thinking about your day, where I need to like pursue water, it can get, you can get way behind. And so to just have that is kind of like this. It follows you around and reminder, constant reminder to drink water.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, I was so pro this, that I had my 60 year old lady engineer, skinny dude. I had them all carrying jugs of water around. And the reason why I did was because what I found was that every client that said they were drinking a lot of water wasn't drinking nearly enough water. And all my clients that thought they were drinking about a gallon of water weren't even close to quarter gallon was the most. And so what I. And it was always just an exercise for me. I didn't make my clients do this indefinitely. It was, hey, this was part of the teaching process when they, when they first hired me. It would be something that, hey, I just want to do this for the next month so we can kind of get an idea of where you at.

[Sal DeStefano]

See what the difference is.

[Adam Schaefer]

And what, what it did was it brought awareness to them. It brought awareness to how little they drank and how inconsistent they were that and how much they drank other fluids that were not so ideal for them. So what I found was it replaced the sodas, the juices, all the other things and it gave them water and it made them aware of how little and how much more they should be drinking this. And then there was also the side benefit of they had to pee a lot. And so I found they would be moving more often.

[Sal DeStefano]

By the way, we track this with.

[Doug]

Bodybugs burn more calories.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yes.

[Sal DeStefano]

They were more active an extra 500 steps.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean listen, anything that any. When you're dieting with people and to, to suppress a little bit of the appetite is beneficial to keep them active and moving is beneficial to keep their mouth busy, whether it's chewing gum or drinking water is beneficial. And so even though again we did the bodybuilders of the BROS did not explain the science behind this very well. Had tremendous value. And I figured that out as a advanced or a trainer that had been training for a long time and became a staple with all my clients.

[Sal DeStefano]

Next up is fasted cardio. So what the bros will say is if you wake up in the morning and do cardio before you eat, your glycogen is depleted and you're just going to burn body fat. And then you can see the science. There is more fat oxidation when you do cardio in a fasted state. Now at the end of the day it doesn't matter. The calorie deficit matters. Whether you do cardio fasted or cardio fed, whether you're oxidizing fat while you're doing cardio or not, does it matter at the end of the day, calories being equal, same fat Loss makes no difference. Except when people did fasted cardio, they did get leaner. What's going on here?

[Doug]

It's a discipline.

[Sal DeStefano]

It was extra activity. Yeah. That's all it was.

[Doug]

You're disciplining yourself to get up that extra hour early to do this activity which then you know, sets yourself up for success, better success throughout the day.

[Adam Schaefer]

Did you see the conversation I was having with Mike Dolce about this?

[Sal DeStefano]

No.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. So I guess he, you. There's a clip of us and you're talking about this exact point and we're talking about that. It's a, it's a splitting hair difference. It's not a big deal. And he makes the argument that there are a lot of the research on that is flawed and there is a slight difference in benefits still to doing it. So there is some science to prove that fasting carbon. Now the, the rebuttal I had to. That is like it's still splitting hair different so.

[Sal DeStefano]

Splitting hair.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. It is positive. There is some. There is.

[Sal DeStefano]

It makes sense to the bodybuilder who's trying to go from 3% to 2 and a half.

[Adam Schaefer]

Right. Body fat, the general pop, the biggest benefits. So I just want to make sure I make that clear. So yes, I'm aware of the research that supports it and says that it is. But you're talking about, if you're making that as an argument you're splitting hair difference on how much more beneficial it is. But when you add the other benefits to it to me, then it makes a lot of sense because from a habit perspective, which is what I found with this is why I was a huge fan of fasted cardio. And it was because I didn't get up at 6 o' clock in the morning ever unless I was doing fasted cardio. I mean my alarm is set at 7 or 7:15, depending on what I have going on that day. And I never get up at 6 in the morning. But when I was prepping for a show and I. And it was that time in my phase of leaning out and I was started fasting cardio, I would get up at 6 o' clock and just simply getting up in the morning and starting the morning with an hour of activity that I normally would be resting has tremendous benefit.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right.

[Adam Schaefer]

Not to mention how I also found I would be more active throughout the day. So there's another, there's a. And this is, and this is hard to measure in a study.

[Sal DeStefano]

It was behavior based.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's right. So what I found was if I just got up and mosey like I do right now. Get up. Alarm goes off at 7. Like, I slowly make it over to the coffee and drink it. And I move slow. And then it's not even until probably like noon here do I feel like we go for our walk and like, okay, now caffeine's in me now. Like, I just move at a different pace. When I would get up and start the day and break a little bit of a sweat doing like a fasted cardio the rest of the day, I'm, I'm, I'm already moving.

[Sal DeStefano]

It sets the stage. Yes, it does set the stage. And if something's going to get in the way of any kind of structured workout, cardio, strength training, whatever, it tends to not happen first thing in the morning. Now if I leave this for later in the day, especially after work, things get in the way. I'm a little later at work. I got some stuff going. I got to put out some fires. I got to go pick up the kids. If I wake up early to do cardio and I've decided that's what I'm going to do, I'll almost never miss it. So long as I wake up, I'm not going to miss it.

[Doug]

It's uninterrupted.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. And then again, it's extra activity. When people did fasted cardio versus cardio later in the day. Now, all things being equal, doesn't really make a difference, but it typically doesn't work out that way in the real world. The fasted cardio turned out to be extra activity. So this is why it works. Now if you don't want, if you need to get better sleep, more important, right? So don't wake up, don't. Don't get crappy sleep. So you do fasted cardio. It's not a good trade. But if you get good sleep, you go to bed early and you're doing fasted cardio, behavior wise, activity wise, it tends to be beneficial. Next up, the bros love what some people will label as junk, volume, or finisher sets. So when you watch a bodybuilder workout, what they'll tend to do is they'll tend to do like one or two, like, big, gross motor movement, effective exercises. Then they'll do like three other exercises. And the deeper they get in the workout, the more these exercises become kind of isolation, easy exercises. Pump blood. Yeah. And they'll say, I'm trying to squeeze as much blood into the muscle. Now here's why that can be beneficial. Again, now we're not talking about like, don't replace your big gross motor movement exercises. These can't replace that. But here's why this is beneficial for a lot of people. It adds extra volume and very little stress.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

And now, now when it comes to volume, there is a sweet spot of where you're gonna get like 85 to 90% of the results. But to get the extra 5, 10% is extra volume. But what happens here is you're trading recovery for volume. Now you're playing this dancing game. How do I squeeze out an extra 5 or 10% out of my workouts, but don't compromise my recovery so much that it screws everything over? Well, I know how well I'm doing my pecs today. I did the big exercises. I'm going to go do a single arm cable squeeze or sit sideways on this machine and squeeze this upper part of my chest or whatever. It gives you the extra volume and it doesn't cause much damage at all. And so you can squeeze out that extra 5 or 10% of results.

[Adam Schaefer]

In other words, if they were still, if they were in the gym for the same amount of time and they did the same amount of exercises, but they switched the exercises out from these finisher type exercises and replace them with barbell bench press deadlifts, overt, they'd be overtrained, they'd be burnt. And so if you're going to spend this much time in the gym, let's say you're the type of person who likes to train five, seven days a week, an hour to two hours in the gym. This is where this type of, this type of training has tremendous benefits because it, what it does is it manages the intensity totally. It does not over train you the same way that it would be if you were doing all these barbell lifts. And so here's another example of we didn't explain, explain it the best way, but somebody who's doing that high a volume of training needs to have exercises that don't do as much damage or else you will absolutely overtrain the body totally.

[Sal DeStefano]

All right, next up is supplements. Lots of supplements. Now, most supplements actually have very little value when it comes to building muscle and burning body fat. Some have some value, but not a lot. But yet bodybuilders just take a ton. Now, part of that is because bodybuilders take everything. They'll do anything that they think is gonna work. But here's what we find in the data. When people structure their supplements, it tends to contribute to better behaviors with diet and exercise and especially if the supplements are scheduled throughout the day, it tends to remind them that they're on this disciplined path of fitness. So it's like I got my am supplements, my afternoon supplements, my evening supplements. My evening supplements are for sleep. You know what tends to happen if I have supplements for sleep. Tend to go to bed on time, tend to think about it. My afternoon ones, you know, it's hard to eat a garbage meal after I took this supplement that it cost me $90 this month. So I'm going to take that. So it tends to contribute to behaviors.

[Doug]

That really are what immovable routine that they build and establish.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right.

[Doug]

Supplements are definitely a part of that.

[Adam Schaefer]

I actually think a large portion of the success that people report from supplements is due to these reasons. Totally is. We, we already see, we know what the research says about how much it actually moves the needles in the, in the pursuit of building mus or burning body fat. But where. And I remember, I know you guys remember this especially. It's a little bit different now in my life because everybody sends for free to me. So I have all, I have it all at my disposal. But when I was a kid and I went spent half of my paycheck, 150 bucks, you know, on.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's a lot of money.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. You're not missing, I'm not missing my workout, I'm not missing my diet. I'm not going to be wasting this. It really, it really kept me on track because especially when I got a new supplement that I was trying because I was, I was like, I got to see if this works and I spent $150. I better not just waste it.

[Doug]

By the male version, women would go.

[Sal DeStefano]

Get a trainer that's a way better.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, I think even for like, I mean switch it over to fat loss supplements for women or like sleep supplements. Like you're saying. I think it's just a placebo effect for both sexes that if you are spending this money on this thing, you're just more aware of it and you're more. And because you're more aware of it, it's going to create better habits for that reason. And this is why still to this day when I talk about supplements, people say, listen, if you have it in your budget, I'm all for it. I mean like spend the money. Yeah. Because it's it. Because even if it's only a 1 or 5% help towards the goal, what it does behaviorally for a lot of people, we know how much, how beneficial that is. So And I think that actually is probably a large portion of the results that come from.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right. Now here's another one, and this one. You know, I don't recommend even labeling at this, but I can see why there's some value with this. So these are the cheat meals or cheat days that they would have. Now, this is a psychological break. It's a break, and I don't mean it in a negative sense. I mean it gives them a break on the ultra discipline that they're on throughout the week and allows them to get back into the routine. So instead of eating super perfect all the time, oh, Saturday, Saturday I have a cheat meal. And I'm looking forward to that. And they move towards that, and they stay consistent because they know they're looking forward to that. Is there some physiological benefit? There is. There is a benefit to injecting higher calorie meals into your diet, especially if you're in a calorie deficit. It seems to help with performance. It seems to help with muscle preservation and some fat loss. Now, here's where I don't like it. This can definitely turn into a restrict binge behavior, where it's like, I restrict all the time, and then Saturday comes along or whatever, and then I just eat until I make myself sick.

[Adam Schaefer]

So I wanted to put this point in here because I wanted to talk about this, because what I find. And you kind of touched on it right there. And I think this is the main takeaway from this. Less about the cheat day or cheat meal, and it's more about the benefits of undulating your calories. We know what the research says about that and the benefits of doing that. And one of the things that people tend to do when they get on diets is they. They get to. They have a strict protocol and they follow it just consistently all the time. And it's one of the ways that they have success. It's just like, this is what I eat every single day. And I think there's a lot of value in interrupting that, in interrupting both psychologically and physiologically. So I think that part is the part of the quote, unquote, cheat day that has value. I don't like labeling it a cheat day because it's your diet. It's just part of your diet. I would. I wouldn't. I would teach clients, or I would insert these as, like, just high calorie days. I'd say, hey, Friday, we're gonna have a high calorie day. Add that extra meal or do that. You know, those.

[Doug]

You do that without the crazy, highly processed foods.

[Adam Schaefer]

Right.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's where it gets crazy.

[Adam Schaefer]

And that's why I don't like where I think the bro science of the bodybuilding community went wrong with it. Is labeling it a cheat. Cheating. Because just the connotation that comes with that is not healthy and good. You're better off just having some interruptions in any diet with a high calorie day. One high calorie day is not going to put pounds of body fat on you.

[Sal DeStefano]

No. If anything, it'll give you energy and strength for your workout.

[Adam Schaefer]

Exactly. And so I think there's lots of benefit to anybody who is dieting to briefly interrupting that every on every other week or every week with this meal or meal meals in a day where you have a high calorie day to interrupt that both psychologically and physiologically.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right. Last flexing. The bodybuilder will flex muscles all the time. Now here's the value of it. Now here's what they'll say. They'll say that flexing sharpens the muscles and causes increased definition or a harder look. Here's why that's probably true. I don't think it's necessarily. Unless they're flexing really hard. I don't think there's really a physiological benefit necessarily. Aside from the fact that no athlete on earth can activate a muscle like a bodybuilder, no athlete on earth can activate their right lat or their left rhomboid or the right rear delt or their quad or their inner thigh or the outer glute like a bodybuilder. And part of this is because they flex. They sit in the mirror and they flex.

[Adam Schaefer]

In fact, I think they've refined that neural network totally. And we talk so much about the. How often we talked about the benefits of the cns. And you are practicing that communication between the brain and that muscle. You can't tell me that's not beneficial.

[Sal DeStefano]

And tell me the carryover. Right. When you go do an exercise, I want this is a back exercise.

[Doug]

And I part of the muscle recruitment.

[Sal DeStefano]

Process in my back. And I can feel this in my chest versus my shoulders or my glutes versus my quads. That has to do with learning how to connect to these muscles. Because look, you take the average person who works out who doesn't flex, they probably can't even do a lat spread. You tell them to activate their lats without using a machine or weights and they can't do it. Bodybuilders, they can activate any you could point to a muscle, not even touch it, and they'll be able to activate it. And it's from flexing.

[Doug]

Well, when you take away the mirror, it's just isometric poses and it's very valuable.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean all resistance training is, is flexion of the muscles with some sort of resistance. That's all it is. So I mean I used to use that line and explain it to clients is like, listen, that's all we're doing is flexing the muscles with some sort of resistance, whether it be bands, weights, isomet, whatever, but that's what you're doing. And so the, the foundation of that is learning to flex that muscle. And if you can't do that very well, we know that too. Like the, the, you will not get as much of an exercise than the person who can actually flex that muscle. Somebody. You take two people doing the same exact exercise, same. All, all things equal. One of them knows how to flex that muscle, one of them doesn't know how to flex that muscle.

[Sal DeStefano]

You'll get better results.

[Adam Schaefer]

You'll get better results that way.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, I, I remember I had a client once, they weren't a bodybuilder, but they, they had issues with scapular winging, which is not a super common issue, but if you train people for five years, you'll run into it. And I taught, I taught them how to do a front lat spread because it taught them how to get the scapula to flatten out and to spread out. So we literally sat in front of the mirror and practiced this compulsory bodybuilding pose. But it helped with controlling their scapula when we were doing certain exercise. So they didn't get that, that winging, which was pretty cool. Anyway, are you guys, you guys are familiar with the customized the Mind Pump Butcher Box box?

[Doug]

Yeah, our box on the website.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's amazing. So if people aren't familiar, you could go to Butcher Box.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's all of our favorite stuff they put in there.

[Sal DeStefano]

We curated it. This is the best cuts that we, that we like the most. So if you go to Butcher Box and you go to the Mind Pump one, you'll see our box. It's got rib eyes, it's got bone in chicken thighs, steak tips, baby back ribs, the gluten free chicken nuggets and the flat iron steaks. That's like my, that's what we have all the time. Yeah. And ours, I like the gluten free chicken nuggets, by the way. I eat so many of those.

[Adam Schaefer]

The kids still eat them.

[Sal DeStefano]

A lot fight.

[Doug]

My youngest all the time.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, bro. It's my. My family members. Everybody's like, it's a bit of a.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's a bit of a cheat. I feel like, because it's such an easy go to. For Katrina and I for Max, like, all else fails. That's a. Throw them in there to take 12 minutes in the oven to heat them up like that.

[Sal DeStefano]

I love it.

[Adam Schaefer]

I. But I've got. Become addicted to them because they taste so good. It's for comparison. If you've never done it, somebody. You have to eat a McDonald's chicken nugget and eat that back to back. I tell you what, it'll ruin ever eating a chicken nugget from somewhere else after that because it tastes like a total different thing.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, totally. I got to tell you guys about. So I got some. Remember what I said on previous podcasts? I'm gonna try and stop cursing. Yes. And I challenge.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, I forgot to ask what I never saw what happened to the comment section?

[Sal DeStefano]

So people were. People are now like, like, paying attention. Like, if I said a bad word or whatever, and everybody's like, why don't they, you know, contribute or do the swear dryer? You guys don't want to do it. That's fine. Because that was my idea was.

[Doug]

Oh, they're trying to, like, peer pressure us.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Which is worse? I mean, listen, audience. If you listen to our show, the last way you'll get Adam, Justin, or Doug, especially Adam or Justin, and do anything is by pressuring them. They'll go in the opposite direction. I'm very similar. But anyway, I have a new. I have a new way of doing this. That's what I'm gonna do. So. And I'm gonna say it on air. If you guys want to edit this out, that's fine. But if I get caught saying a bad word ever on the podcast, comment underneath on YouTube, do a timestamp on it, and we'll give you whatever program you want for free. I'll send it to you. Okay.

[Doug]

Take it out for everybody.

[Justin Andrews]

For the first person.

[Sal DeStefano]

For the first person. First person. First person that calls it out. Get some free things. Doug. Doug's over there. Yeah. So if you hear me say a bad word, you just timestamp it. You're the first person in there. I'll send you free program.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's fun.

[Sal DeStefano]

Is that. Is that all right?

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, yeah, it's fine.

[Sal DeStefano]

All right.

[Adam Schaefer]

Have you.

[Doug]

I'm trying to think qualifies, like, because some people have. Trying to get programs Distorted perception of, like.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's got to be a real curse word, guys. Yeah. Can't be, like, damn or something.

[Doug]

Come on, guys.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's gonna be one you get in trouble with. Like, your mom would put soap in your mouth over.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, I would have gotten so. With that word.

[Sal DeStefano]

With damn.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

[Adam Schaefer]

Really?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Doug was Leave it to Beaver, dude.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, we. I had a really strict upbringing, too, but damn wasn't one of them. Damn.

[Doug]

What about another language, like Shizen?

[Sal DeStefano]

What does that mean? In what, German? Yeah. No, I don't think that counts. It has to be in English.

[Adam Schaefer]

I'm gonna press you on it. Since you said that, which was like a week ago, or what? Like that. I'm trying to think. Have you caught yourself or have you noticed?

[Sal DeStefano]

I. I think I have. I'm pretty sure I have. So this. This is a context.

[Adam Schaefer]

You've been. You've been actively trying to.

[Sal DeStefano]

Not really trying. You know, it's funny.

[Adam Schaefer]

You're really bad off air.

[Sal DeStefano]

I know. And I catch myself. I told my wife, gee, shoot. Yeah. So my wife is in on it with me, right? So I'm like, let's try. Let's try this together. And she's worse now, dude. She's like a sailor.

[Adam Schaefer]

Because you're aware of it.

[Sal DeStefano]

Because she's just. Yeah. Like, left and right in front of the kid. Like, what's going on, babe? She's like, you shouldn't have told me. Now I'm even worse. Anyway, I'm really.

[Adam Schaefer]

See, I'm really. I'm really good with Max, but I have. When I'm with the boys, which is what I feel like I am in this situation. I get it that we have all kinds of other people listening, but that's not how. This is the show. The show is built on a car getting to peer in on a conversation as if you weren't in the room.

[Doug]

Yeah, if I was, like, in the car with you on the way to school with your kids, totally. I'm not gonna.

[Adam Schaefer]

No, I'm not. Definitely not that guy, for sure.

[Sal DeStefano]

I feel like.

[Doug]

But I understand, like, yeah, if you want to put yourself there.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, but it's different.

[Doug]

We're in a conversation.

[Adam Schaefer]

Half of the dynamic of. Of this.

[Sal DeStefano]

You guys try to sell me. I'm.

[Adam Schaefer]

No, I'm not, man.

[Sal DeStefano]

You.

[Adam Schaefer]

I'm all justifying myself. Half of the dynamic of this was always like this. You're getting to peer into a real conversation with me and my buddies.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, I'm trying to do this unfiltered. I'M trying to do this off air too though. This isn't just for the show.

[Adam Schaefer]

I think that's. I think it's a good thing that you're trying. Yeah. That you're, you're trying to go. Go that route. Especially if you think you, you do.

[Sal DeStefano]

It quite a bit. Next level will be. I let you guys punch me in the arm if I said I'm not going to do that yet because you guys are going to wail on me. I know Justin will come out of nowhere. I can't wait. Blasphemy or whatever. Anyway, I looked up. Are you guys familiar with Bill Pearl? He was one of the. One of the strongest bodybuilders in the 60s, I want to say. Do you guys know who he is? Yeah. Okay. You know.

[Adam Schaefer]

You don't know who he is?

[Doug]

Yeah, I think I know the name. I'm just trying to think of. Picture him.

[Sal DeStefano]

So he was like. Arnold was like a huge fan of Bill Pearl and he was known back then for being one of the strongest bodybuilders ever. And this was in the 60s. Did they use steroids back then? Yes and no. Some did, some didn't. But the amount of steroids they used back then.

[Adam Schaefer]

So minimal.

[Sal DeStefano]

Wouldn't even be there. He is right there. I mean you can see just the physique that he built. And that's like early 60s, I want to say.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean he was, he was the Arnold before Arnold.

[Doug]

Natural.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean he like, he was the, like the first big guy like that, bro.

[Sal DeStefano]

The genetics achievable. Oh, it's insane. And again, if you want to talk about steroids, they didn't even use the steroids that these back then would even qualify as TRT today. Just so people understand. Yeah, like 5 milligrams of D ball was if they were taking a day to. If they did take anything at all. But I have some of his lifts which is, which is pretty, pretty insane. He benched 450 and I believe this was in 1962, which was insane. 460. He did a 605 pound squat. So you do reps with six, five and a 310 pound seated shoulder press behind the neck. Wow. Insane.

[Doug]

He's not doing finisher exercises.

[Sal DeStefano]

No, no. You want to know what his workout looks like?

[Adam Schaefer]

Tell me what his workout look like.

[Sal DeStefano]

Here's what his split look like. It's crazy.

[Adam Schaefer]

He had a body force.

[Sal DeStefano]

He did a split. But it's a. He was the first bodybuilder, one of the first bodybuilders to because back then, prior to the 60s, every. Every bodybuilder worked out full body. It was always full body. Full body, you know, three days a week, four days or whatever. Yeah. He was the first one to combine that with like a split. So what he would do on Monday would be full body, then Tuesday, chest and back, then Wednesday, full body, then Thursday, legs and shoulders, then Friday, full body body, then Saturday, arms and we'd rest on Sunday.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's a lot.

[Sal DeStefano]

Isn't that insane? He would do 18 to 20 sets per muscle, per body, per body part in each of those workouts. That's crazy.

[Adam Schaefer]

In each workout?

[Sal DeStefano]

In each workout.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, my God. That's a lot of volume.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, that's a lot of. It's crazy when you get like, you get people with those kinds of genetics, they just ramp up and for whatever reason that's probably their bodies can handle.

[Adam Schaefer]

You know, to that point. Sal, that's probably one of the, the. Probably one of the more challenging things for, for us to talk about is that there's such a wide range of what people can handle. And most of the good information, and I'm saying good information that's even out there came from these bodybuilders or people that were already anomalies.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Like it. And it just didn't work with your clients.

[Sal DeStefano]

No.

[Adam Schaefer]

Like, I don't know.

[Sal DeStefano]

I don't know very many that would crush me couldn't. Yeah.

[Doug]

None of my clients, I mean, just.

[Adam Schaefer]

To the audience do. I mean, this, this is how I knew before we all met and you sent me anabolic over how I knew how on point it was, because I had. I just really figured that out with my clients. Like, this is it like just handful of movements two, three days a week. And they.

[Sal DeStefano]

99% of people will do.

[Adam Schaefer]

Are going to argue. Yeah, they're going to do. And which when you look at it and remember when we used to. The critiques we saw is this is not enough.

[Sal DeStefano]

You know, we get people that thought it was.

[Adam Schaefer]

And then, I mean, this, this whole, this whole thing, this whole movement was built off of the results that we gave people from maps and a ball. It blew people's minds. It blew their minds on the results. And frankly, the, the fitness fanatics were just doing way too much.

[Sal DeStefano]

They were. And the genetics of some of these people, like Serge New Bray, he was in the Pumping Iron series. He's the. He was the French black bodybuilder with the. Everybody says like the best esthetics of all time. He was known for doing up to 70 sets per body part in training. Now was that excessive? Probably. But the fact that he recovered and he looked the way he did from that, it just points to how insanely different genetics can be at that level. Yeah, 77.

[Doug]

Tolerate that.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's crazy. You guys want to hear a crazy story that I just read? It's one of the craziest stories I've ever read really. And it's true. I don't know when this happened, but I read it today and it was just insane. So in rural Mexico, there was a woman, Inez Ramirez Perez. She was in labor, 12 hours of labor with no access to medical care, no means of transport. And she had lost a previous child to a complicated delivery. So she's in this remote area trying to give birth. She was in a one room shack in Ozaka Mountains. No electricity, running water, basic sanitation. She's 40 year old mother, she had six kids already. She's trying to give birth. The closest clinic was 50 miles away. So you know what she did? Because she was having this baby wasn't coming out. She had three glasses of strong liquor, she took a six inch kitchen knife and she gave herself a C section.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh my God, bro.

[Sal DeStefano]

And she relied on her knowledge from butchering livestock.

[Adam Schaefer]

Shut your face.

[Sal DeStefano]

So she made three vertical cuts.

[Doug]

She consciously was doing this on her own. On her own.

[Sal DeStefano]

She made three vertical cuts totaling 17 centimeters. And she squatted down. So and this actually would get the baby to kind of move in a position that was safer. And she used a faint light, lasted over an hour and she was able to get the baby out.

[Adam Schaefer]

She survived.

[Sal DeStefano]

How did she survive? Hours later. So she had, she, she. Her six year old son went to look for help for health.

[Adam Schaefer]

Six year old son.

[Sal DeStefano]

Six year old son went to go find help. Wow. Hours later, village health assistant Leon Cruz arrived, found the mother and baby alive with her conscious attending to the child. And so that he used a simple needle and cotton thread, stitched up her extensive wound. After an arduous eight hour trip to the nearest hospital, they were astonished to find no infection, minimal blood loss and a fully intact uterus.

[Adam Schaefer]

Wow.

[Sal DeStefano]

This was documented in the international Looking out for her. And this is documented International Journal of Gynecology. Gynecology. And that's amazing. What year, what year this. I don't know when this happened. We should find out. But could you imagine?

[Adam Schaefer]

Like how do you know? How do you not pass out? Like that's crazy.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's a miracle. This is miraculous. I mean she's got six kids. Like just think of the love you have for this child and for your other children, where you're like, I'm going to do this. I have to do this to survive. And the fact that she didn't hurt herself or the baby during this process.

[Adam Schaefer]

In the year 2000.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Wow.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's crazy.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. I was reading it, getting emotional just thinking about this poor woman by herself with no electricity. Just figuring it out.

[Adam Schaefer]

Talk about the brilliant. For her to be able to know how to even where to start to do that.

[Sal DeStefano]

I mean, I think it's miraculous, but. And now here's the other side of it. That kid can never act up. My mom brought up. She brings up what she delivered me. She had a hobby hospital.

[Doug]

You got no equity at all.

[Sal DeStefano]

This kid is. Yeah. Never nothing. You know what I did to get to get to bring you to this world, buddy? Yeah. You better die.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's in 2000s. The kids 20 something years. It'll be interesting to see where the kids.

[Doug]

The kid better be a millionaire.

[Adam Schaefer]

Something better somewhere. Yeah, I would love.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's true.

[Adam Schaefer]

He better be something, something. Dude, he's 25, 26 years old now. I'd love to know what he is. Or is it boy?

[Sal DeStefano]

Girl? I didn't say.

[Adam Schaefer]

Be interested to know about the kid. I would love to hear about the kid now.

[Sal DeStefano]

God, stories like that, man, when you read stuff like that, it's just.

[Doug]

That's intense.

[Adam Schaefer]

Makes you feel like a wolf.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh. Huge on yourself. I don't know if. I mean, I for sure couldn't do that. I found that to be so. Just so incredible.

[Adam Schaefer]

No. Anyway, you guys see the. The story on the golfer who overdosed on creatine? That's so silly.

[Doug]

Yeah, that's so silly.

[Adam Schaefer]

I. I saw Justin brought it up the other. Well, he didn't bring it up on the show, but he brought it up in his notes.

[Sal DeStefano]

He didn't talk about taking too much creatine on his loss.

[Adam Schaefer]

And I, I basically. But I got a bunch of text messages from my friends that of course, they're like, is this possible?

[Sal DeStefano]

No, no. You know what happens when you have too much creatine? Diarrhea.

[Doug]

Yeah, diarrhea.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's what happens. What happened was he was dehydrated.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. How? He choked. He choked his game.

[Doug]

He psychologically messed with himself.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yes. That's a hundred. The fat. I'm sure he's getting roasted. Roasted by it too. Because most people that know about creatine are going like, yeah, no, that doesn't. That doesn't happen.

[Sal DeStefano]

He was saying he was shaky and stuff. Probably from dehydration.

[Adam Schaefer]

I'm surprised you're in a dehydration golf tournament. I mean, that would probably be also possible.

[Doug]

You know, when two, like. I don't know, when you take a. A sip of something and it's like a clump and it's like, you know, and you're expecting it to be, like, liquid.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Doug]

And it kind of throws you off in your rhythms a little bit. Like, I've had that happen before, and it kind of throws you off a bit. But it's not like.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, even if I do. Okay. Even if all that was, like, true, that something like that happened. Do you.

[Sal DeStefano]

Do you bring that up? I know. Blames it on the crazy.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. What do you do? Like, you just take it on the chin. You're like, yeah. If I got beat today, I might tell my cat I was all in my head. Yeah. I might tell my caddy or my wife or someone close to me. Like, I had that creatine. It was sitting in my stomach and it gave me this. But I am not in an interview going, like, blaming it on.

[Sal DeStefano]

Meanwhile, half these, like, these pro leagues are, like, sponsored by Taco Bell. That'll miss it. Way worse than it. Too much crazy.

[Doug]

Or at least blame it on some. Some like, better drugs.

[Adam Schaefer]

You know, we were talking about genetics earlier, about bodybuilding genetics. I just find it so fascinating the. The pro athletes that can eat the.

[Sal DeStefano]

Way they eat and look the way they do.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, some of them.

[Sal DeStefano]

Who's that? Football player.

[Adam Schaefer]

Bought him up before Metcalf.

[Sal DeStefano]

He's candy all day long.

[Adam Schaefer]

So you know that. Okay, so all day.

[Doug]

Dude, this is.

[Adam Schaefer]

This is who popularized this sugar diet now, so that his thing was such a phenomenon. Like, I don't know how many years ago that interview went live. Maybe we can look up DJ Metcalf interview about sugar or candy. It was a couple years ago. That, that and that. So it's been this, like, everyone controversial. Like, no way. You really. He literally, like, eats a couple bags of candy a day. Like, that's his diet. And he's like. I mean, if you haven't seen him, you look at him, he's like a freak of nature.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

And supposedly it's been recorded, documented, and proved that that is exactly how he eats. Which, remember just recently, our boy over, Mark Bell, was doing the sugar diet. And now there's doctors coming out talking about the benefits of the sugar diet.

[Doug]

I never really looked into that, but I was like, yeah, because I was, like, curious like, why would you promote this?

[Adam Schaefer]

Here's what I know. I already. It doesn't. I don't even care what the science says of the potential benefits of it. I know the addictive properties of the sugar and stuff like that and what a trap that is.

[Sal DeStefano]

I have never in my life ever worked with a client where we dramatically increased their sugar and it made it things better. That's never happened.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, you have to eliminate everything else. You know, it's. It's like he's one.

[Sal DeStefano]

He eats one meal a day and three bags of candy a day.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's crazy.

[Adam Schaefer]

Isn't that wild? It's. It's the real. Look at this.

[Doug]

Especially if you're not, like, crazy cardiovascular.

[Adam Schaefer]

Show a picture of him, Doug.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, he's, like, ripped. It's. Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, I said, D.J.

[Sal DeStefano]

I told you guys.

[Adam Schaefer]

D.K. metcalf.

[Sal DeStefano]

I've told you guys. I've had. I had a guy that worked for me. He was.

[Adam Schaefer]

That picture of him.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, I know he looks crazy. I had a. A porter that worked for me, and he had the gnarliest looking arms on there for, like, huge triceps. Just looked jacked all the time. And I was interested. I was like, what does he. This guy do? And I asked him, I'm like, what do you do for, like, what do you eat? I mean, his workout was kind of normal, so it was nothing special there. I'm like, well, what do you eat all day long? And I remember he told me his diet, and I believed him because he didn't make much money. In fact, I know he didn't make much money because he was a porter. I know how much he made. And so he says, I can't afford much, but I have. It was a breakfast sandwich. In the morning, he'd have, like a pop Tart or something for lunch. And then for dinner, he might have, like, ramen. And this guy was crazy.

[Adam Schaefer]

Justin. And I work with a guy like that. Yeah, Justin. I were with a trainer like that. He literally skipped breakfast, had Taco Bell for lunch, and I forgot what his dinner was.

[Sal DeStefano]

McDonald's. Yeah.

[Doug]

It was trash because I would drive him home and I give him rides all the time, and he'd be like, like, pull over, McDonald's. I'm like, McDonald's?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Like, I don't know. He's just shredded.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. Strong jacked, you know, and he was older, too. Like a young cat. Was like, somebody in this strong dude. Yeah. He was in his 30s back then when we were. This is when we were in our 20s and just genetics, dude. Crazy.

[Sal DeStefano]

There are everything working for him. Speaking of which, like, I do think, you know, when you look at general obesity, people will say, oh, it's, you know, it's genetics. No, it's not. It's so common, and it happens so quickly. There's no, like, crazy change in our genetics. But when you look at extreme obesity, there is a genetic factor. There is a genetic factor. When you're looking at someone who weighs 500 pounds, 400 pounds, 600 pounds, there is something going on there that is different than the average person. Of course, I. You. If. If you offered me, if a billion dollars were to make it even harder.

[Adam Schaefer]

You couldn't even get to 350 if you try, right?

[Sal DeStefano]

Even worse, if you said everyone you love is going to die if you don't get up to £400. Yeah, I couldn't.

[Adam Schaefer]

You'd struggle.

[Sal DeStefano]

It just wouldn't work. My body wouldn't absorb all that food. It just wouldn't.

[Doug]

Epigenetic potential, right. Like, you could unlock.

[Sal DeStefano]

Their body just captures energy and stores it. And there's just like a. Just like the genetic freaks we're talking about who are shredded eating candy. There are those people that, for whatever reason, they just. And yes, they may eat a lot of food, but a lot of people can eat that much food. And they'd be overweight, they'd be obese, but they wouldn't be. 600.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

£700. I just found the heaviest man in history. You guys want to take a guess?

[Doug]

Like, up to date to current date.

[Sal DeStefano]

Or like, the heaviest?

[Adam Schaefer]

The record was over a thousand pounds.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Mills. Darden. Mills. Darn. Look him up.

[Doug]

Is that the one? They had to, like, literally chainsaw the walls and everything to remove them from his house?

[Sal DeStefano]

I don't know. You know how much he. He. He. They. When they weighed him, how much he weighed? What, 11, 19 pounds? That's great.

[Adam Schaefer]

How long he lived till?

[Sal DeStefano]

I don't know. That's a good question. Maybe you can find him, Doug.

[Adam Schaefer]

But what I want to know. Somebody that. That's. That overweight, how long they. What's the record? Someone who's live, who's over 500 pounds, lives.

[Sal DeStefano]

They typically don't make it past.

[Adam Schaefer]

Of course.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, he actually was born in 1799 and died in 1857.

[Sal DeStefano]

How long.

[Justin Andrews]

Wait, that's like 58 years.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's not bad. Not too bad at all. Do you know that sumo wrestlers. Doug, what birthday is it? They have a big celebration for sumo wrestlers because a lot of them live. Don't live very long. I don't know, is it 40?

[Adam Schaefer]

Like they celebrate like, it's like there's.

[Sal DeStefano]

Like an age that's like, they make a big deal about it. Now.

[Justin Andrews]

You got to understand, he was also 7 foot 6 inches tall.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Seven, six, yeah. What year could you imagine a 7 foot 6, 1000 pound human walk?

[Sal DeStefano]

You know, it's crazy.

[Justin Andrews]

It was this how back in the like 1800s.

[Doug]

How the hell do you eat that many calories?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, nobody ate that much food back then.

[Doug]

Where was he getting it from?

[Sal DeStefano]

That.

[Doug]

Who's feeding them like, that's crazy.

[Adam Schaefer]

Drinking oil.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's wild. There he is. Look at, look at the size of the guy. He was, he was a, I mean.

[Adam Schaefer]

A genuine giant standing up right next to Andre the Giant next to him.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, wow.

[Adam Schaefer]

They put a picture of Andre 7:6.

[Doug]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Because he was a. That's a big, He's a legit giant. That's a big dude. You know what's crazy about that especially.

[Adam Schaefer]

So he probably, he probably had giantism, right? He probably grew to that from that disease.

[Sal DeStefano]

Pituitary had to.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's what, that's what giant had. That like, to be that size you have to have like some sort of disorder, right?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, yeah. That's crazy. That's insane. What's crazy too is that he lived that long. Today you would still. It would be insane to see that today. But imagine what that looked like back then when the average man was 160, something pounds.

[Adam Schaefer]

I know, I mean we talk about this all the time.

[Doug]

Crazy.

[Adam Schaefer]

Unless you go to basketball games, you never see somebody over 7 foot tall. You've seen somebody 7 foot tall is wild.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, the tallest man in history was in the. Was it the early 1900s? I forgot his name. 8 foot 11. 8. 8 foot 11. No one's come close to that.

[Doug]

Doesn't seem possible.

[Sal DeStefano]

Foot tall, almost nine foot tall. Look, look up his name and let's.

[Adam Schaefer]

See how he's in the wax museum. I've seen him before.

[Sal DeStefano]

Right there. Yeah. Robert Wadlow.

[Doug]

Oh, yes.

[Adam Schaefer]

He's in the wax museum.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

He's ever been to the wax museum before down in la.

[Doug]

Yeah, they have them in London too.

[Sal DeStefano]

No, no. Insane, right? That's crazy.

[Adam Schaefer]

Anyway, I just saw, I saw a picture. Somebody had. There's a, there's a famous female swimmer, right? Not swimmer, Runner. And they had her next to a, a male swimmer.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, the leg difference.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yes. And her, she's on the ground like this with her legs up and her legs are almost the full length of his entire body. Yeah, yeah. It's wild, dude.

[Sal DeStefano]

Have you ever seen. Have you ever seen when they compare like Michael Phelps to like a world. I remember who it was. It was a runner. Yeah. World record marathon runner.

[Adam Schaefer]

The opposite, obviously. They were both all torso, same height, but then both tall.

[Sal DeStefano]

But Phelps, his legs. Because at that level, genetically you're gonna have short legs and a long torso. And then of course at the marathon level, you have long legs. Long legs. And it was such a wild disparity. Michael Phelps must look interesting in person, right? Because he's. How tall is Michael Phelps? How long are his legs, though? He must look interesting. Yeah, because. And I remember when I saw this picture, I was like, whoa, that looks. It looks weird.

[Adam Schaefer]

He's like six in the. Six foot, so six.

[Sal DeStefano]

I want to say he's the most winningest Olympian.

[Doug]

Oh, yeah. Most decorated.

[Adam Schaefer]

Six.

[Sal DeStefano]

Four. Six, four. How long are his legs? What was his inseam? It's like 30. Yeah, something like that.

[Adam Schaefer]

That would be funny if it was like.

[Doug]

It was kind of funny. I was, I was just watching this clip and it was a podcast talking about this one actor. And I'm sure you guys have, you know who it is, like, even like step brothers. He was the guy that was like the annoying brother.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, yeah.

[Doug]

You know, the kind of the severance.

[Adam Schaefer]

Singing in the rage. Yeah, yeah. He's also the severance.

[Doug]

He's the main guy. So I had no idea. He grew up in Santa Cruz.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, really?

[Doug]

Yeah. And so, and I looked into it. He actually went to my rival school, Harbor High. And it's just funny that he was like talking about all these, like, local stories and everything, but I was like, I wonder if I can, you know, somehow convince him to tell Wally to put this freaking video out.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, the one that you made? Yeah, yeah.

[Doug]

I'm gonna start hitting them up and.

[Sal DeStefano]

Be like, dude, I want to get. I want to pull his. Everybody needs to see that.

[Adam Schaefer]

Hey, it was a 30 inch.

[Sal DeStefano]

I'm gonna keep bringing it up 30 inches, bro. That's wild for a 6 foot 44, because average guy with a 30 inch inseam is what, 510? Is that. Is that.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, I'm a 34. And I'm 16.

[Sal DeStefano]

3 and I'm 32. What's yours, Doug?

[Justin Andrews]

Probably 30, I'm guessing. I mean, like, if you buy jeans, I get 30. 32s.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's so weird.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's Doug.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yep. It's youth. Yeah. I am young, actually.

[Adam Schaefer]

Hey, we save hell of money that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Way, though, you know, swimmers. Top. Top level swimmers are the only athletes at that level. So at the top level of athletics, athletes are generally good at most. They're generally good at just athletics. Like, you get an NFL player, he's gonna be better at basketball than most people. A top basketball player, he's gonna be better at sprinting.

[Doug]

Yeah, there's no. It doesn't translate to these other sports.

[Sal DeStefano]

Swimmers, terrible at everything.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, it's not gonna work.

[Sal DeStefano]

They typically are not.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, that makes sense because that big old long torso only works well in the water.

[Sal DeStefano]

Imagine Michael phelps running. He's 64 with a 30. He's slow.

[Adam Schaefer]

He would be slow. I mean, I would think he could throw a baseball this decently.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, I bet. Yeah. But he could throw your mind.

[Doug]

It would be like. You ever been to one of those baseball games where they have the mascots racing each other and they're like, really long?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Adam, I was gonna ask you. A long time ago, you had a very unique way of using Brain fm. Do you remember?

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, you have the sex.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Have you done it?

[Adam Schaefer]

I haven't in a long time, but we used to do that all the time. It was such a.

[Sal DeStefano]

What was it?

[Adam Schaefer]

Focus. Just locked in. Yes.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yes.

[Adam Schaefer]

Listen, you're not thinking about the business.

[Sal DeStefano]

We have.

[Adam Schaefer]

We have not talked about this for a lot. It. It make. Okay, so you know that when you play that to do work, right?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yes.

[Adam Schaefer]

And this is what. It makes you hyper present.

[Sal DeStefano]

For sure. It makes you hyper present.

[Adam Schaefer]

You don't get distracted. You know anything else part of intimacy is that, like, one of. The. One of the. I think, in my opinion. In my opinion, a massive marriage hack. I just. I mean, listen, if you start this first, put your phones down.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Like, I. I've already connected.

[Sal DeStefano]

Don't check your phone while having sex.

[Adam Schaefer]

No, even.

[Sal DeStefano]

Even.

[Adam Schaefer]

Not even right before that. Like. Like. Like a mistake I've learned I've made in the past is like. It's like a rule that I've. I've had to teach myself. Like, when we come into my bedroom, I just put my phone away from me because I've had times where, say, Katrina's showering, one of that. It's bedtime with that, and I'm, like, messing around my phone. It literally takes me away from her and us, of course, that it ruins the intimacy. And I really have to, like, get back in the moment to, like, even be aware of, like, what's in front of me. And so I think that it. It helps you Hack into that. So if I. I literally challenge anybody who wants to improve intimacy in their relationship. The brain FM hack of like focus in the background in the bedroom. Is it. Is this. I mean, start with get the phone out, right? Like that's the first thing is don't get on your social media when you're about to lay in bed with your wife or whatever. But focus while having sex.

[Sal DeStefano]

Was.

[Adam Schaefer]

Is.

[Doug]

Was badass a good boombox? Like, hey, babe.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, yeah. What does that sound? What's it doing to me?

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean there are a lot of people. I was never this person, but I know a lot of people like to have music on in the background when they have sex. Anyways. There's probably something.

[Doug]

Yeah. I wonder what the percent look at.

[Adam Schaefer]

The research on that.

[Sal DeStefano]

What's the worst person?

[Adam Schaefer]

How many people like, hey, who would.

[Sal DeStefano]

Be the worst person in this room would pick the worst music for sex? For sure. Justin, bro. For death metal. This gets me in the movie.

[Doug]

You guys have great taste.

[Sal DeStefano]

Dude. You got Enya playing and that's at least romantic sounding.

[Doug]

Country western.

[Sal DeStefano]

I don't think so. Death metal. I don't know, bro.

[Doug]

I would play death metal to. To get my. My wheelbarrow on, if you will.

[Sal DeStefano]

Whoa, whoa.

[Adam Schaefer]

What. What percentage of people. Like, that's a great. I bet that's a common question. Like sec or like music on during sex?

[Justin Andrews]

47%.

[Adam Schaefer]

So half. Half the people like that. And is there any.

[Doug]

It's like R and B, right?

[Adam Schaefer]

Found that 68% of those who do listen to music during sex say it helps reduce performance anxiety. Oh, that's interesting.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, that's what you have? Yeah. Performance anxiety. Oh, no. It helps you. No.

[Doug]

Do you guys have. I actually have a playlist. So you have one like specifically for. Just in case. Yeah, just in case, dude. Yeah, it's like. It's almost like stripper music. I mean, let's be honest.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, a lot of like saude.

[Doug]

You do saute?

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, a lot of saude type stuff.

[Sal DeStefano]

Really?

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. Yeah, that's like. That's like. That's total. I love making music.

[Sal DeStefano]

That we're making.

[Justin Andrews]

The sounds of silence.

[Adam Schaefer]

No, I. I was not. No. I've never been like a real.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, yeah.

[Doug]

I don't bust that out.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, that's not. It's not a. That's not a typical move of mine. But I remember when we were playing around with Brain FM back in the day and I was like, oh, this is like a kind of.

[Sal DeStefano]

I remember. You should talk about.

[Doug]

It's great.

[Adam Schaefer]

It Is it is a hack. I mean, I, I know this shouldn't go with the commercial, but you, you a little bit cannabis with that. It's like the ultimate, the ultimate blend.

[Sal DeStefano]

You know what I'm saying? I got an update for you guys on, you know, how I was doing that, like every other hour I would pause, think about, yeah, yeah, man, I had this such a great practice. I had a great experience the other morning. I woke up and my son wakes up early, so I can't do what I'm normally going to do. But because of that practice, you know, I pause and I pray and thank God for whatever blessings are happening. And I was just like, oh, man, I get to spend more time with my son. Then later in the morning, my daughter wants me to drop her off at school. And normally I would drop her off at this one stop that a bus picks her up. She's like, can you take me all the way to school? I said, is it the same amount of time? She's like, yes, it is. Well, it turned out to be hella traffic. And not. But while we're in there, I was getting annoyed for a second and then I did the thing where I paused and I'm like, oh, wait, I'm in the car with my daughter. We had this great conversation. It changes your outlook on things. I felt so blessed to spend extra time with my teenage daughter and the extra time with my son because I paused to pray about what I feel, what I'm grateful for, and I saw the blessing which I normally would have missed.

[Adam Schaefer]

I, I totally, I think, appreciate that tip or you sharing that, because I've actually applied it since we've talked about it quite a bit and have found the same thing.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's crazy.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. And what it really hacks into that, I think is different than the traditional way that you hear people talk about gratitude, where it's like this end of the night type of deal is that it interrupts the day and you become grateful for a lot of other very small things that you would miss totally. Had you not tried to practice it through the day. I'll add to that another thing that I've been trying to do, so forget. I think it was Arthur Brooks that was talking about it on our podcast or another podcast that I'm talking about. And one of the keys to happiness is learning to want less.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's not about getting more, it's about wanting less.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yes, exactly. That's the ultimate hat to. To happiness. And so another practice I've been trying to do is that and it could be as silly as this. I want a pair of new sneakers or there's this new car I like. It doesn't matter. When I find myself wanting a thing or a new whatever, I. In that moment, I try and go like, stop and then be grateful. The things that I, that I have. And just practicing that reminds you, just reminds me that. And it's just another kind of gratitude practice. And I think it's just a. Such an important thing that at some point you get to that level in your life when you start to appreciate what you have versus always reaching and what I'm wrestling with, because I was sharing this with some of my family members that we were talking about this and one of the things that I was telling them was just that, you know, have you ever looked at what percentage of the. Well, first of all, what the percent. I don't know what the average of this would be cool stat. Doug, what percentage are most people's gross income that goes to their living expenses. Their house. So.

[Sal DeStefano]

So you're just living expenses or just their home?

[Adam Schaefer]

Their home. Okay. So they say you should keep it around 30%. So that's like a good, good advice.

[Sal DeStefano]

Is to 30% of your gross income. More than that should not go to, to your cost.

[Adam Schaefer]

But I think the average is like, like 80. It's like something really, really high. And so a good, like Dave Ramsey type of advice would be 30% of your gross income should be allocated towards your living expense, I. E. The limit or whatever, rent or whatever. And so what does it say?

[Justin Andrews]

So this is on housing costs. You want something else besides that's what.

[Adam Schaefer]

I wanted was housing costs.

[Justin Andrews]

30%.

[Sal DeStefano]

It says this says on average that's what they spend is 30%.

[Adam Schaefer]

Wow. I would not think that the average. I don't think that's what the average person is.

[Sal DeStefano]

I think that's a lot, though, dude. That's a lot. 30% of income is a lot for a lot.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, think about what think of most families.

[Justin Andrews]

Is that on gross income or net income? That's a good question.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's on gross.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's the 30% rule it suggests.

[Adam Schaefer]

Okay, yes, that's a, That's a good rule to live by. That's not what I. I don't know if that's right. Right there. Average American spends around that, at least not in my circle. Almost every family or friend I know, their rent or their mortgage is more than half.

[Sal DeStefano]

I know that's that number. I think is. I think it's giving you what the Guideline is what the advice is.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Actually happens.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, so my point is, I was talking about this with my. My family of like, you know, how low of that. That percentage I've gotten down. In fact, the last two places I've moved, I've downsized my places and just. And I feel happier today than I did any other time. And if you would have asked me my twenties, the vision would have been this crazy, bigger, bigger, more and more and more. And I think as I've gotten older, I've gotten happier with less. And I think in return, I've been happier because of that. And it's a. It's not. It's not something that just happens overnight. It's a practice. Like, you have to actually make an effort to doing that. And it's.

[Sal DeStefano]

My dad used to tell me this all the time. And he grew up poor, you know, as poor Sicilian. And he talked about how happy they were being together all the time. And we didn't have these huge bedrooms to be in, and we would go outside and everybody would be together and the. You know, the neighborhood was together. And he would talk about how, you know, how unhappy people are with all this stuff, because he saw when he came here, it was like. Like, man, people have so much stuff, but why are people unhappy? I know. It's crazy. Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

See, Doug's pulling these now. I'm reading more stats. You're pulling up that are more.

[Justin Andrews]

This is for California.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, okay.

[Justin Andrews]

So it's definitely higher in California.

[Adam Schaefer]

Okay. Yeah. I was gonna say I was like, most of the people I know, they're. They're spending a good chunk, like half of their money that they. That they make is going towards their living. Living expenses, which of course, because our housing prices. But I mean, I've significantly reduced that and was explaining to my family member how low I have that way way below 30%. And it's like, I'm happier there than. And I said, I recognize too, the. The freedom that. That that causes. It allows. I mean, we've had challenges within the business and ups and downs. It's like when you keep that so low and you're so comfortable with that being so low, then those times don't become as stressful as I used to. I mean, that used to be something that when I. You're. When you need every paycheck to survive and get by like that.

[Sal DeStefano]

I know people that you have both husband and wife, they have kids, they're both working, and they're both have good jobs and they're Both gone all the time because they, they have to live in this expensive area with this particular house and they have to pay for daycare and it's like, man, that's most. And they're. And they're not doing well and they're stressed out. It's like it would be better off for you to find a place to. Who cares about this? You have this expensive house when you're not with your family and you're so stressed out anyway.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, you brought that stat up the other day that I was really fascinated by was just the size of the house that's on average today compared to.

[Sal DeStefano]

What it was more than double than what it used to be.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean people used to live and be just as happy as they were.

[Sal DeStefano]

1100 square foot house was the average in the 1960s. Yeah. And they had bigger families and.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, exactly. So it's like we had, we had. You have more kids, bigger families and you lived in a what? Half. I think it was half is what you. When you came up with the number, it was like half of what the size we are now. And it's just.

[Sal DeStefano]

And then if you look at the footprint of a house and where people actually spend their time, it's like a lot of heat map.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, that's what. So that's what. And I agreed when we went. When we came this way because again, going back to what I thought, you know, I thought was more bigger. All like I want all these rooms, all this stuff. And we, you know, we had a pretty good sized house the two houses ago that was at least the biggest house I ever lived in. And I mean, I'm talking about rooms that I mean nobody touched. Nobody touched. Dude, I'm like, what a waste. What an absolute waste. So when this place came around, it was like, hey, let's really think about how we use a house. And that's what we need. Let's. And let's do our best to make it the way we want it so we use it and nothing more than that. And let's see what happens. And that's how this place is right now. It's like we use every room of the house, every room of that house on a weekly. Even the guest. We have one guest room. But I've got family or someone over on a weekly basis that are. And even us, we still use that thing every once in a while. And so. And it's a significantly less footprint. There you go. 1500 to. What was it back.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's the median.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, that was back in 1960s.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. And now it's like over 2,000.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's over 2,200 square feet. Hey, real quick, we have another podcast hosted by our fitness manager for personal trainers only. If you're a trainer or a coach and you want to become the best personal trainer and learn from the best trainers, it's called the Elite Trainer podcast. Go check it out. The first episodes are with me or Adam or Justin or Doug, but there's more. Again, it's the Elite Trainer podcast. Go find it on Spotify or YouTube or iTunes. Go check it out.

[Justin Andrews]

First question is from Chloe Clo Lifts. Should you train even if you're sore? What are the benefits or disadvantages of training when you're sore versus when you're not?

[Sal DeStefano]

Depends how sore you are. Like, if you're really sore, you probably take the day off. But if you've got, like, normal soreness, the kind that lasts like a day, a really low intensity workout probably helps recover faster. Yeah.

[Doug]

Blood.

[Sal DeStefano]

Blood flow.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. I was actually going to say, no matter what you train, you modify the intensity based off of how sore the sources. Right. So even if I'm really sore.

[Sal DeStefano]

Stretch.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. Then it's like, that's what the workout looks like. The workout looks like mobility, real lightweight, if anything, and just kind of moving through, getting the other blood work, blood flow going and stuff like that to facilitate recovery. If I'm mildly sore, then it's like, okay, maybe I'll get a little like a machine workout, lower intensity. Like if. If it's even, even, even more. It's like. So I think that's a good way to do it. Is that, like, you work out, but you learn to modify the intensity off the level of the soreness. And if you're. If you're sore to the touch, hitting a heavy workout again is not beneficial.

[Sal DeStefano]

I remember when I was.

[Adam Schaefer]

I want to say that's the mistake I used to make.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yes, I would.

[Adam Schaefer]

I would.

[Sal DeStefano]

I can't touch.

[Adam Schaefer]

I would be like, sore the chest. And it's chest day again. It's like we're hitting heavy, hard chest again. It was like, that was no wonder. My.

[Sal DeStefano]

No, I remember I was 15 and I really overdid it like I typically did at that age. And my legs were so sore that I tried to stay home from school. And I remember my mom came into my room, we got in a big argument, and she's like, let me stretch your legs out. She wouldn't leave unless I let her do it. And then she did, and I stood up and it Was like way better just from moving. But yeah, I've this, you know, trigger sessions. The trigger sessions. MAP's anabolic. They facilitate recovery. They're low intensity, either band workouts or mini workouts, and they help speed up recovery. So now if you're like always sore, always stiff, this is like chronic. You're fatigued. You probably should take over training.

[Adam Schaefer]

You're over trained.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. Yeah. If you're, if this is chronically happening, then you, I mean, this is great conversation for that because again, I think this was me. Like, I think I was all, I was chasing soreness. So I mean that's how bad and over trained I was. Was that like I was upset that if I wasn't sore, the touch, which is such a backwards way to think of it, but I think a lot of people fall into this trap.

[Sal DeStefano]

Some of my best gains were when I would have a light workout on a muscle that was sore and had maybe overdone it, I would just get better results. But the workout was so light and so easy.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Next question is from good juju gains. I have clients who work out early in the morning. With all the studies being released on the negatives of women working out fasted, what would you recommend them eating beforehand?

[Sal DeStefano]

This is very individual. Everybody. Like if you have a client that gets lightheaded, they just don't feel good. They seem, they seem to need something before they work out. Something light and easy beforehand. I mean, I've had clients where they would eat a banana with peanut butter bananas before they work out. And then I had many clients that just felt good. They felt good because they worked out so early. They felt better working out fasted. I don't work out, I don't work. I don't eat before my workout. I work out typically 7am or so, and I don't eat until afterwards. And I feel great doing it this way. So it's super individual. So when it comes to these studies, you got to be careful because the individual variance is pretty wide. I think what you're seeing with these studies is chronic. Like women who are chronically fasting, it might be what you're seeing and probably.

[Adam Schaefer]

Ignoring all the signals their body's already trying to give them. I mean this, this is an example of like the studies mean nothing to me here. It's like this and so, so many people. So does the sex. Doesn't matter if she's a woman. Doesn't matter if this is a man. It's like I'm asking my client how they feel. And if my client works out facet and feels great, worked out fasted, I ain't changing the damn thing. But if they're, if we're working out and they're complaining fatigue, dizzy, low energy, like, yeah, like that. We need to, we need to make and what it might look, some clients it looks like scheduling a big dinner. Some clients it looks like a banana or a shake half hour on the way over there. Some clients, they get up like it, like every client, the strategy has been different, but it's purely off of feedback. It's 100 off of. Let's try this. How do you feel now?

[Sal DeStefano]

I've had also had some clients that will have exhibit what seem to be symptoms of needing to eat. And then what we did is we just had water with electrolytes and really that's what it was. They woke up and had no fluids, just dehydrated, nothing. Yeah, give them some water with electrolytes and then they were suddenly feeling great. So it's super wide. So don't be one of those trainers where you read a study and then suddenly you apply it across all your clients. It's going to be a big mistake.

[Justin Andrews]

Next question is from Megala Dodds. What are your suggestions for mitigating burnout as a trainer? What are some ways you've learned to refill your cup after pouring into others during the week?

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, wow, this is a good one.

[Adam Schaefer]

This is hard.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, this is a tough one. You know, there's two strategies I used to train a lot. I trained a lot of stage you're.

[Doug]

At too, as a trainer.

[Sal DeStefano]

I, I trained a lot of clients. I mean, for years I would train.

[Adam Schaefer]

This is what made me move up to management.

[Sal DeStefano]

50, you know, 50 sessions a week. And I did that for so long. And there were definitely times I would feel burnout. And there were two ways I, I would deal with this. One was just a mental shift. What did that look like? I, the conversations that I would have with my clients were ones that I found valuable to me. And in fact this is just a hack for trainers in general. Find your clients, find ways to find your clients interesting and find ways to learn from them while you're training them. And then it almost feels like you're getting the value out of the session. So I would train. Everybody's interesting if you ask them enough questions. That's just one thing I found as a trainer. But I have clients that were surgeons and doctors or executives or stay at home parents and I would just ask them questions and Ask them more questions. And my older clients, it was always questions about wisdom or what was it like when, you know, you were selling houses in the 1960s in this area? What did it look like? Or, you know, with the surgeon. Tell me about what happened yesterday. Did you have any crazy, you know, patients or procedures? And then it was, didn't feel. It felt like I was, I was interested, I was having a good time. That helped quite a bit. And then the second thing is you take some time off. Yeah. You get pushed hard time off. You got scheduled time off.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Doug]

And I think that's the part that we just, you know, we get kind of in that mode. I gotta just work and I gotta service all these people. But two, for me, I used to just schedule times where I could go to workshops and learn a new skill and learn something that I could bring back to my clients that would just spark a different conversation with them. But, you know, going further into this is why I asked about like the stage you're at, because maybe you're at the point now where you got to up the price point of your session.

[Sal DeStefano]

Good point.

[Doug]

And start and reduce the volume. Reducing volume, yeah. Which was huge for me because, like, opening up that extra bit of space, I had more time to work on outside my business and really enjoy the, the quality of these sessions with people that I enjoyed to train.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. A lot of thoughts here for me. Like one, this is what made me move out of personal training. Like, it was just a lot. It was like I fell out.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's a lot of energy training people.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's a ton. A ton. Especially if you, if you're on and you're a chameleon and you really are giving it all to every client. Like that's, that's a massive energy suck for sure. And so I, I enjoyed moving up, but I used to toggle sprint crews. Sprint crew, sprint, cruise. So like, I mean, it was very common in a pay period. I would service over 200 something sessions. So that's over 50 hours a week of clients. It's a lot. And so I would go through these, these sprints where I'd sprint really hard like that. And then I will cruise the next couple weeks. And during the times I was cruising, that's when I might be working on a certification, wakeboarding, doing something that's like more selfish. So I had more time for myself. And so I rarely ever just was full throttle for months at a time. I would do these, these kind of. And because you're a trainer and you can, you can control a lot of your schedule. Sometimes that looks like 14 days in a row of work. But then I would take four days off or I would take. You know, then that next week would be like, half the client load. So I would do things like that. I had to. Otherwise I would get.

[Sal DeStefano]

You know what else helped me a lot, too, is, you know, if I was training 10 clients in a day, nine or 10 clients in a day is my workout would be in the middle of the day. Because if I train.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

If I train.

[Doug]

Yeah, I always train.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's how I became a middle of the day.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Because five. About five clients in a row after that, I'm starting to get a little fried. And then if I worked out, I was ready to go totally. For another four or five clients.

[Adam Schaefer]

I actually think that's.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

I would guess most trainers train in the middle of the day like that. I mean, I. My whole career. That's why I became some people that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Train first thing in the morning, and then they go eight clients straight by the time you're at the end. Yeah. You have no energy.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. No. I found the midday workout was. It almost makes it feel like it's two too many days versus having one long day.

[Sal DeStefano]

You know what's crazy about this, too, because I know you guys are very similar. When I was going, going, going, going, sometimes one day off made me feel more burned out because I take that one day.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's why I like to go sprint and then cruise, because I'd rather go 14 days in a row and then have a week where it's really.

[Sal DeStefano]

Because one day off was like, okay, I'm just. And I got to get back into the grind.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Doug]

It takes you out of the rhythm, too.

[Sal DeStefano]

It was weird. It was almost better to just go straight. Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

And then I think Justin's point about where you're at charging right now is such a good point, because if you're training that many clients that you're getting.

[Sal DeStefano]

You can charge more.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, you can. Could probably charge more. And then. And then, yeah, inevitably, you're going to lose a couple clients. But you'll see.

[Sal DeStefano]

You know, my challenge with that was, is that. Because I coulda. And I should have done that from a business perspective, but I had clients that I just felt super loyal to, responsible and loyal to. It's hard that it was like, okay.

[Adam Schaefer]

You know what's funny? It's such a good. That's such a good conversation to have for the trainers that are listening right now. It is hard. And that is A common thing that you're going to feel. But you know what most people. People respect and understand, especially if you position it that way. Like, man, I. I hate to do this to you, but I got to do this. And I understand if you can or you don't want to, but I'm. I'm moving up my sessions and it is what. You know what I'm saying. And so most people are. And the ones that can't afford or can't do it will say they can't. And then the ones that understand will normally move up. But it is good book for that. Crucial conversations. There's. It's a tough conversation. It's hard to have. But if you're going to scale and build, you need to learn how to do it.

[Justin Andrews]

Next question is from Kevin Og. How do you think you'd hold up in a apocalyptic situation?

[Adam Schaefer]

Do we want each other be your first move? Do we get each other?

[Sal DeStefano]

Are we alone?

[Adam Schaefer]

Because if we're alone, we're.

[Sal DeStefano]

You know what it's funny is that as we were going, I saw this question and I thought, what? What? Because I have no apocalyptic skills.

[Adam Schaefer]

I disagree.

[Sal DeStefano]

I have one. I have one skill and what it's. It's sales skills. And I would. I think what I would do is I would somehow sell myself into. Okay, well I'm gonna help you guys do this.

[Adam Schaefer]

So I'm a relationship builder, so I'm gonna go build some relationships.

[Sal DeStefano]

So very similar. Yeah.

[Doug]

You'd like assume a whole cult, like ready to go.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, I guess you could put it.

[Adam Schaefer]

And then I would be your. I'd be your deal maker.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

I convinced the other tribes to join us and make the deal on what.

[Doug]

They get, create the structure and the.

[Sal DeStefano]

Meanwhile, Justin actually building shelter. Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. He would be the hunter shelter.

[Doug]

The problem is I won't be doing it for. For anybody else. Like, I'll be like gone.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Doug]

I'll be out in the wilderness, dude. I'll be like face painted and everything.

[Sal DeStefano]

Like, he's like, hey, you'd ever see those. Like, you know, if you take like a farm pig, but they go in the wilderness, they quickly go feral and they turn into a board. That's Justin. Yeah.

[Doug]

If the apocalypse are coming out.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Just. It would be a week before Justin would turn into a straight up caveman. Yeah. I would die. It'd be bad.

[Adam Schaefer]

No, we would not do. We would not or I wouldn't. I shouldn't speak. Speaks for myself. I would not do good what's whatsoever. I mean, I'm pretty resourceful and I would, I would probably, I would do my best to figure it. I wouldn't just definitely give up. But I am not, you know, Ben Greenfield been training myself to, to bow hunt and to do all these things, these important skills in case we were in that situation. But I, I, I think we would lean into our strengths. Our mouthpiece. I can make some deals. You know what I'm saying?

[Doug]

You could, you could wheel and deal your.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, I'm pretty, I'm pretty good at relationship building and know may maybe that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Would work, convince people to give you some food. Yeah, yeah. What would you do, Doug? What's your skill?

[Justin Andrews]

It's a good question. I honestly don't know.

[Sal DeStefano]

You're probably the most prepared. I bet you have like.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, I'm pretty prepared actually.

[Sal DeStefano]

He is.

[Justin Andrews]

Hopefully it doesn't happen.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, no. So that's upcoming your house.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's why he would survive because he has the things. He's got the guns, he's got the food, he's got the silver.

[Doug]

He's already been prepping this whole time.

[Sal DeStefano]

He's a prepper.

[Justin Andrews]

So I'm, I'm slightly a prepper. Yes, a little bit true.

[Adam Schaefer]

I believe that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Look, if you like the podcast, come find us on Instagram. We'll see you at Mind Pump Media. See you there.

[Justin Andrews]

Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB super [e-mail] the RGB Super Bundle includes maps, Anabolic maps, performance and Maps, aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by sao, Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, the RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at at mindpumpmedia.

[Adam Schaefer]

Com.

[Justin Andrews]

If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review on itunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is Mind Pump.