2682: Nine Fitness Coaches That Should Be Fired

Summary

Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth

Episode 2682: Nine Fitness Coaches That Should Be Fired

Release Date: September 11, 2025
Hosts: Sal Di Stefano, Adam Schafer, Justin Andrews, Doug Egge

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Episode Overview

This episode tackles a no-nonsense evaluation of the biggest red flags within the fitness coaching world. Sal, Adam, and Justin break down nine types of trainers who do more harm than good—urging listeners to fire these archetypes before they wreck progress, motivation, or even health. With their trademark blend of humor and hard-earned industry insight, the hosts illustrate how bad coaching can destroy a client’s relationship with fitness and provide listeners with the tools to identify quality coaching versus toxic approaches.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Why Bad Coaches Can Be Worse Than No Coach

• The hosts stress that while a good coach is "worth their weight in gold," a bad coach can not only stall progress but actively ruin a client’s long-term health and outlook on exercise.
• Bad coaching often leads clients to become discouraged and quit fitness altogether, sometimes for years.

"Bad coaches are worse for people than no coaches."
— Sal (04:03)

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Breakdown: Nine Coaches Who Deserve to be Fired

1. The Hype Machine (Motivation Junkie) — [05:00]

• Focuses solely on external motivation and hyped energy.
• Clients become reliant on a temporary high rather than building real discipline and behavioral change.
• These coaches burn out quickly themselves, and their clients just as fast.

"You can't hate yourself into better health, at least not in the long term. It just doesn't work that way."
— Sal (08:09)

• Notable analogy: Justin calls this coach a “drug dealer” of motivation, supplying a short-lived fix.
• This style attracts beginners, but ultimately fails at teaching autonomy.

2. The Shame Trainer — [09:32]

• Uses guilt and embarrassment as tools to keep clients "in line."
• Fosters secrecy and discourages honest communication.
• Clients eventually disappear, ghosting the coach out of discomfort.

"The first person you should want to talk to is your trainer, not the last person."
— Sal (11:45)

3. Intensity Over Technique Coach — [12:53]

• Prioritizes “going hard” at all costs, disregarding exercise form and safety.
• Increases risk of injury, decreases long-term results.
• This is recognizable in some group fitness classes and “bootcamp” environments ("Biggest Loser" style).

"Exercise is only as effective as the way that they're performed."
— Sal (12:13)

4. The Low Calorie Fixer (Diet Slasher) — [14:51]

• Solves every problem by dropping calories further.
• Ignores metabolic health and sustainability, resulting in weight regain and diminished wellbeing.
• “Jenny Craig coach” is their nickname for this avatar.

5. The Absent Coach — [16:55]

• Usually an online trainer who delivers generic, one-size-fits-all programs with zero personalization or ongoing support.
• Sparked by influencer trends and the explosion of virtual coaching.
• Managing huge client loads, they simply can't provide genuine coaching.

6. The ‘Everything But the Kitchen Sink, All At Once’ Coach — [18:59]

• Front-loads every possible change—workouts, diet, sleep, supplements, etc.—on a new client.
• Overwhelms and dooms clients to failure by not focusing on stepwise behavioral change.

"A good coach meets you where you're at...step by step, so you can develop these disciplines."
— Sal (20:27)

7. The Talker (Never Listens) — [20:54]

• Loves to lecture but never asks about the client’s lifestyle, preferences, or obstacles.

• Fails to personalize programs. Sometimes devolves into social hour without real progress.

• Adam describes a trainer who turned every session into a chat instead of a training opportunity.

• Good trainers ask questions; e.g., “Which kind of cardio do you enjoy?” or “What’s your schedule?”

8. The Know-It-All/Science Nerd — [23:57]

• Never admits “I don’t know;” gives advice beyond their expertise, sometimes even wrong.
• Can either be the “fake expert” or the technical “science nerd” who lacks real-world experience.
• Good coaches know when to refer out or learn more before answering.

"Most trainers and coaches know some stuff...but what they also know, or should know, is people who know things they don’t."
— Sal (24:05)

9. The ‘Treats Everyone Like a Competitor’ Coach — [25:54]

• Uses bodybuilding/competition prep methods on everyday clients.
• Pushes extreme regimens meant for elite athletes, damaging clients' metabolism and hormones.
• Common in trainers with competition backgrounds, particularly with the rise of Instagram "coach" culture.

"The last thing you should do is train like a competitor or eat like a competitor. That is not sustainable for competitors. Competitors don’t even do that all the time."
— Sal (26:18)

• Adam emphasizes the importance of assessing a client’s metabolism before crafting a diet or prep plan, and calls out coaches who put clients on extreme diets unsafely.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On quitting after bad coaching:

  "It’s easier to get somebody who's never worked with a trainer...than it is to get somebody who's hired three or four bad trainers, because they've had such bad experiences."
  — Sal (04:22)

• On intensity and form:

  "A good trainer would educate the client on what actually produces good results. Technique is everything."
  — Sal (13:45)

• On coaching as a relationship:

  "The first person you should want to talk to [after screwing up] is your trainer, not the last person."
  — Sal (11:45)

• On behavioral change:

  "A good coach meets you where you’re at, and they have to step by step this process so that you can develop these disciplines, you can develop these behaviors."
  — Sal (20:27)

• On knowledge boundaries:

  "A good coach or a trainer...should know people who know things that they don't, that they could refer to. That’s what a good coach is."
  — Sal (24:05)

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Timestamps of Key Segments

• Intro & Purpose of Episode — [01:08-03:44]
• How Bad Coaches Can Cause Harm — [03:44-05:00]
• #1: The Hype Machine — [05:00-09:32]
• #2: The Shame Trainer — [09:32-12:13]
• #3: Intensity Over Technique — [12:53-14:51]
• #4: The Low Calorie Fixer — [14:51-16:55]
• #5: The Absent Coach — [16:55-18:59]
• #6: Everything But the Kitchen Sink — [18:59-20:54]
• #7: The Talker (Never Listens) — [20:54-23:57]
• #8: The Know-It-All/Science Nerd — [23:57-25:54]
• #9: Treats Everyone Like a Competitor — [25:54-29:56]
• Closing Thoughts & Practical Tips — [29:56-end]

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Core Takeaways

• A good coach is invaluable, but a bad one can cause irreparable harm.
• Seek coaches who prioritize individualized, sustainable change, not hype, shame, short-term fixes, or copy-paste regimens.
• Communication, flexibility, humility, and a stepwise, personalized approach are the hallmarks of real coaching.
• Beware of online influencers or “celebrity” trainers who overload, under-support, or mimic contest prep for general clients.

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For more, find the Mind Pump team on Instagram @mindpumpmedia or visit mindpumppodcast.com for resources and training programs.

Transcript

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[Sal DeStefano]

Mind Pump Mind Pump with your host.

[Announcer]

Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer and Justin Andrews.

[Sal DeStefano]

You just found the most downloaded fitness, health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump. Today's episode. We talk about fitness coaches and trainers that should be fired if your trainer falls under one of these categories. It's time to give them their notice and find somebody else. Now this episode is brought to you by a sponsor. 8 Sleep this is the most advanced sleep system in the world. It goes over your bed and it controls the temperature of your bed while while it monitors your sleep and it adjusts on the fly using AI technology to maximize the quality of your sleep. Everybody listen. This is a huge, huge deal. Better sleep makes a big difference with fat loss and muscle gain. Anyway, go check them out. You can get up to $350 off. Go to 8sleep.com mind pump use the code Mind Pump to get that massive discount also this month. Look ladies. Go to musclemommymovement.com quiz see if you fall under one of these categories. The Comeback Queen, the Efficient Powerhouse, the Strength Novice or the Lifestyle Integrator. See which avatar you fall under, get some customized advice and more. It's totally free. MuscleMommyMovement.com quiz Here comes the show Fitness coaching both virtual and in person, like personal training has exploded. It's a growing field. There's more people interested today than there was just last year and the year before and the year before. But there's a problem. A good coach can have profound benefits on your fitness and health. A bad one, equally negative. Today we're going to talk about the nine fitness coaches that need to be fired. If you listen to this episode and your coach falls under one of these categories, kindly let them know you'll be finding someone else.

[Justin Andrews]

Stay away from these characters.

[Sal DeStefano]

Let's do it.

[Adam Schafer]

Actually, this is cool because we get a lot of questions around, how do I, you know, know I have a good coach or a bad coach or what to look for? So hopefully, as we go through your list, that you may. I think you got nine.

[Sal DeStefano]

Right.

[Adam Schafer]

That you go through here. We can go through, you know, all the, the bad qualities or traits of these nine coaches.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, 100. And you know what, what I said in the intro, you know, a good. There's nothing like a good personal trainer, good coach when it comes to health and fitness. Like, there is no better guarantee that you can get. If you want to lose weight or get healthy or fit or strong or build muscle and you want to be able to maintain it for the rest of your life, you want to figure this out for yourself so that you can always do it. You can do it forever. There is nothing that comes close to.

[Justin Andrews]

Investment, hands down, period.

[Sal DeStefano]

There's nothing, nothing comes close to having that guide that can really bring you on this journey and set you up for the rest of your life. But on the other side of this are bad coaches, and bad coaches ruin this for people. In fact, bad coaches are worse for people than no coaches. Bad coaches have this. What they tend to do with people is they tend to do things the wrong way. So wrong. Even if the person gets results, by the way, this is wrong. Doesn't mean they don't get results. Wrong can sometimes mean the person gets results and gets back out of shape because of how it was, how it was done in the first place. What they often do is get somebody to the point where they don't ever want to try again.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, I know.

[Sal DeStefano]

You know, trying to get somebody, you know, speak from personal experience. As a personal trainer, it's easier to get somebody who's never worked with a trainer to hire me than it is to get somebody who's hired three or four bad trainers to then hire me because they've had such bad experiences. And so, yeah, this is something we're very passionate about because this is our space. So good trainer, worth their weight in gold. Bad trainer, run as fast as you can.

[Adam Schafer]

I mean, I like you. You start right out the gates with one that I think is going to be a little bit of contro, a little bit of controversy because I think inherently I think people want a little bit of.

[Justin Andrews]

They're drawn to this guy.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, that's right.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right. It's the hype machine. This is the guy or girl where everything is about motivation, inspiration and excitement, which is great at first. The problem is the feeling of motivation is a feeling it will fade. It always does. It just doesn't. You can't be motivated all the time. Doesn't work that way. And so this trainer really does a terrible job because what they tend to do with people is through trying to keep them motivated and hyped, they try so many different things, they end up burning the person out. The person stops and never comes back. They're gone. Because they never help the client figure out how to do this when they're not motivated. Because here's a true statement. I've never had to convince a motivated client to exercise. I've never had a motivated client go off the rails with diet. It's when they're not motivated that it becomes a challenge. So now the answer isn't to hire somebody who motivates you all the time because that's impossible. It doesn't exist. And this hype machine person causes more injuries and problems than almost any other coach. And again, we see this in social media quite a bit. You see these trainers or these types that are all about like, make it happen. You can, you know, beast mode, you never stop, you know, and it's just push through it. A terrible message for long term success.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. I think this, of all the ones that you created will be the most difficult for people to understand or to see because I think that this is attractive. I think if you're a consumer and you are inspired to make change and you come across a very inspiring or motivational type of trainer that's attractive. Especially in that moment. Especially in that moment of I need to make change, I'm not happy where I'm at. That guy seems like he's awesome. I want, I mean he's full of energy and he says all the cool quotes and you know, like I, they're going to be drawn to this character. So this is probably, I think the most difficult of all the ones you're going to talk about on seeing through this. And I think what you're, what you're looking for is because it's like, oh, so what do you go for? The opposite of that? Someone who's not motivated or not like. So it's like. But what you're looking for is somebody who leans more on behavioral change and discipline over hype and motivation.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, I look at them a little bit too as more of like a drug dealer in a sense. Like they're.

[Sal DeStefano]

Because they're dealing out the drug.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, they're. The person coming in is like, you know, they're looking for this external motivation and this supplier of motivation. I can't generate this myself, myself. It's like a very passive role that they're playing in this, this.

[Adam Schafer]

That's why it's so attractive, right?

[Justin Andrews]

So attractive. It's like they can continuously feed me this motivation drug when I show up and it's just like, it doesn't, it just burns out and it doesn't continue to benefit.

[Sal DeStefano]

No. And by the way, most trainers start off as hype machines. Yeah. This is what you think you're supposed to be as a personal trainer. One of the. I'll paint a scenario, right? You have 30 pounds overweight, you see a picture of yourself, oh my God, that's it, I gotta do something about this. And so of course there's a self hate going on. I'm disgusted. Hate myself. That's it, I'm gonna do something. And you've got this like extreme negative rooted motivation, right. I hate myself, don't like the way I look now. I'm motivated. So you're looking for somebody to feed that. It doesn't last. It doesn't last for a couple different reasons. One, motivation, all motivation is a feeling and eventually it goes away. What do you do then? And two, if you've got that negative motivation and someone fuels that, well, you can't hate yourself into better health, at least not in the long term. It just doesn't work that way. Hating yourself leads to over training, injury over dieting, and then eventually rebelling in the opposite direction.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, it masks a lot of like natural signals. Your body's telling you that you need to adjust intensity, you need to adjust certain things and, and you know, maybe change course with your training, but like you're not going to be receptive to that if you're about like pushing through and hyping your way.

[Sal DeStefano]

By the way, you know who else burns out is the hype machine trainer themselves. Oh yeah. So when I would hire trainer like this and I'd see this in Them, I'd coach them out of it because I was like, I'd tell them, you're going to be burnt out. You can't keep trying to hype every client you train for long. You're going to last a year, two max. And after that, you're going to hate your job.

[Justin Andrews]

I just pictured this trainer, after he's done the work, going around the corner, smoking a cigarette, just like, oh, God, I don't know if I can do another day.

[Sal DeStefano]

Totally, 100%. Next up is the shame shame, shame guy or girl. This is the trainer that when you make a mistake, you miss a workout, you ate a meal or whatever, you went off your diet, that they shame you into trying to shame you back into shape. This is terrible. What this leads to eventually is you not wanting to really talk to your trainer and tell them what you're struggling with. If you have a trainer that you're afraid to tell that you messed up, or if you feel like, oh, man, I'm gonna tell my trainer I did this, and it's gonna just, oh, man, I'm not gonna like it. You'll start hiding things from them. Or what'll happen is maybe you like this because there's a little bit of a cathartic feeling when you're hating yourself, right? You hate yourself. So now my trainer tells me I'm a piece of crap and I'm lazy, too. And I like that at first. Eventually that gets old. And here's what happens to you. You just stop seeing them. And I've seen this before. I know the shame trainers. What happens is they'll get a clientele that sticks for a bit and then they just ghost them. They just disappear because they don't want to see them anymore because they themselves are like, I hate the shame spiral type.

[Adam Schafer]

This is like leaders that manage out of fear. It's kind of similar. It's like you get, like, you get a little bit of positive feedback that it works. Because initially, when you lead from fear, people are afraid to lose their job. And so they do what they tell you to. So you think, oh, that's a good approach. That's kind of how like, the shame game works in coaching is like, if I shame the client, there's a part of them that knows that, and then they'll. They'll try and be better because they don't want to fail me again. And so it gets you a little bit further, but it won't get you all the way there. And eventually this is exactly what will happen. That's the client or the trainer that uses the shame like that. The clients disappear. They don't call, they don't do. They just don't want to. They don't want to see you anymore. They don't know how to. They don't even know how to break up with you.

[Sal DeStefano]

You know, and we know what shame leads to, by the way, is eventually it leads to, you know, self medication with food, lack of activity. This is what often gets people in the cycle or spiral of weight gain, weight loss, weight gain, weight loss. It's the. It's the shame that's behind. I'll put it differently. If you screw up on your diet or you miss a week of workouts, the first person you should want to talk to is your trainer, not the last person. If you screw up on your diet and you're like, oh, man. Oh, I just ate.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, I'm gonna get berated for this.

[Sal DeStefano]

I just ate an entire box of Oreo cookies. I need to call my trainer. That's a good trainer versus, oh, my God, don't tell John what I just did. I'm not gonna let them know what happened because then I'm gonna. I'm gonna hear it. Next up is the trainer or coach that prioritizes intensity over technique. This is an easy one to spot, right? It's about just do the wraps, complete the wraps. They're not watching your technique and form, making sure it's perfect. Exercise is only as effective as the way that they're performed. Okay, so I'll repeat that. The better you can perform an exercise or the better the technique is, the more you're going to get out of it. Intensity is never better than technique. When you start to sacrifice technique for intensity, not only do you not get better results, you get worse results, but your risk of injury goes through the roof. And you just give yourself enough time and you'll see yourself. Eventually you'll get an injury. And you can pick these coaches and trainers out in the gym because you can watch what they're doing. And. And they're just like, five more, four more. Keep going, keep going. And there really is no, always four more. Focus on that, on the form.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, they a lot of times go hand in hand with the motivation person.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. And this is, again, there's a few of these characteristics or avatars that you've built that I think will feel. Yeah. Crossover or appeal, they'll be appealing to people. This is another one. A lot. I mean, how many clients do you guys remember having that thought they needed that or thought they wanted that. They wanted the punishment they wanted that wasn't hard enough. I mean, I can't remember how many clients I remember having to talk to, to where I. I catch them going and doing a workout after a workout because they think they needed more. And so a lot of times clients think that they need to be sweating and burning and they're walking out, limping out of the gym. And if they didn't, they didn't have a good workout. So this is another one that I think many times the consumer is drawn to thinking it's actually better. Some of these are like, oh, yeah, I don't want to coach like that. But some of these are like, oh, wait, I thought that's a good thing.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

And so this is another one.

[Sal DeStefano]

This is why it's your job, if you're a good coach, to educate your client on this. You know, like, why do you want to hire a trainer? Oh, I need somebody to kick my butt. That's what you hear.

[Adam Schafer]

I mean, I've even heard that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, yeah, that's a common one. And it's like, what do you mean by kick your butt? You really literally want me to kick your butt? Or do you want to have good results? And so a good trainer or coach would educate the client on what actually produces good results. And technique when it comes to exercise is everything superior. It's everything. By the way, you know what this looks like, this intensity over technique. If you ever watch a strength training group exercise class, that's a great example of intensity over technique. Body pump or whatever. Everybody's in the class and they're just. It's like, that doesn't matter what exercise you're doing, you're just moving, so you might as well just sit in the corner and do jumping jacks. And that's literally true, by the way. It's actually better because your risk of injury is lower than the people doing 15 exercises in a row with no form or technique whatsoever just to get the reps in. That's what that looks like.

[Justin Andrews]

It goes such hand in hand with that motivation.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

It's just like. Yeah. Because the only way you can get through a lot of these, like, reps is if somebody's, like, hounding you to get through it.

[Sal DeStefano]

And it's.

[Justin Andrews]

Again, yeah, it's attractive to most people. They don't know that it's. Yeah. Not beneficial.

[Sal DeStefano]

Biggest loser strength training. Look like this. Yeah, exactly. Exactly like that. Next up is the low calorie solves everything person. Oh, you're not losing enough weight. Drop your calories. Yeah. Oh, you plateaued. Drop your calories. And it starts getting really ridiculous. These are people that I would have to try to fix.

[Justin Andrews]

They have one button.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. They'd come to me and they'd be like, you know, I lost £20. I had 15 more to go. I plateaued, and I'm like, what were your calories at? Like, where you at? Oh, I'm at 1100 calories. Okay, we can't go any lower.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

We got to bring this up and figure something else out. Low calorie. You know, calorie deficit is how you lose weight, but a deficit just means a deficit. It doesn't mean your calories get so low that it's unsustainable. And now you're sacrificing things like energy and lifestyle to the point where it's just like, this isn't happening. I can create a deficit by speeding up your metabolism, building muscle building, making things more efficient. When your calories get so low to where it's like, this is just unbearable. Yeah, we got to figure this out.

[Adam Schafer]

We had a nickname for this coach. It was the Jenny Craig coach. And the. And I'm dating myself a little bit. But, you know, 20 years ago, that was so popular of a diet, and it's a point system. And it was. It's completely built around just eating less. And so the trainers that either one had gone through that and had success with weight loss themselves or had seen people have success with that. So that was like their go to move was just like, turned everything in. Even if they weren't using Jenny Craig's diet or thing, they would just. They make everything into just as low as possible, like a point system. And if I could just get these clients to eat as low, low calorie, they'll lose the weight. And so that was the. The go to strategy. And again, here's another one of these things where initially this kind of can work. I mean, you get somebody who eats terrible and you tell them, hey, you only get to eat 1500 calories or less, and they do that consistently, they will lose weight. Unfortunately, it's not sustainable. And what, 80, 90% of those people gain it all back. But it tends to be a go to move for the trainers that have had a lot of weight loss success through just calorie cutting.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right. Next up is the absent coach. So this is typically the virtual coach who sends you the workout. Here's the plan, the macros or whatever. And then you're not really getting any coaching. So this is like the ChatGPT coach. You might as well go with ChatGPT and get your nutrition and exercise advice. They're just absent. You're just not getting much coaching whatsoever. In which case I say, why did you hire them in the first place? Where's the value? And this, this, you know, the space started trending this way a little bit. I think it's moving out of this, out of this direction because people kind of saw like, this doesn't work. But there was a second there, it was a little while there where there was a lot of virtual coaching.

[Justin Andrews]

A lot of influencers kind of started this whole thing called out because it's like, this is a lot of times the consumer, it's really, it's their fault because they're the ones approaching this, this influencer. This person looks great. I want to look just like you. Then they take them on as a client, then they take everybody on as.

[Adam Schafer]

A client and then it's.

[Justin Andrews]

They try to kind of bring people in and figure it out, but you're not getting good service at all.

[Adam Schafer]

This wasn't an avatar until online coaching.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right.

[Adam Schafer]

This didn't exist. I mean, when you, back in the days when you trained someone, you couldn't be absent. You had to show up to their appointment.

[Sal DeStefano]

They'd be like, what are you doing? Yeah, yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

So that, so that didn't exist until then. And it is, I would say this is the most pop popular one now for the point that Justin's bringing up is that you get all this fame and attention online for your body and you've got a million people following you. And this, these trainers are, they have a hundred clients, 500 clients. I mean, it's wild what you hear. Some of these Internet trainers are. It's like, dude, I remember when my book. When you get around like 25 clients, that's a lot of people to manage. To manage.

[Sal DeStefano]

To offer them good value.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes. To really be able to help them individualize things. To be constantly tweaking. Managing 25 is a lot. Managing 50, 100. Some of these hundreds of people, they're.

[Sal DeStefano]

Just sending out emails.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, you're getting, you're getting a generic program, you know, a generic diet sent to you. And so yeah, this is that coach. And that coach didn't exist until, you know, online coaching really popped up.

[Sal DeStefano]

Next is the everything but the kitchen sink all at once coach. Like you hire them and it's like, boom. Diet program, sleep regimen, supplements, everything, all at Once. This is a surefire way to fail. This was me. You know, there's a couple of these that fit me as the early trainer. Yeah, this was me, man. I got a new client. I'm giving you all the answers.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh. Just follow all this stuff, and we're gonna fix this terrible way to coach because this is guaranteed way to make somebody fail.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. This one to me is, again, we have these ones where I feel like that will be attractive to the consumer. Then there's. These are the ones that, like, tend to you. Like, oh, my God. Right away, you'll be turned. Most people are like, this is too much. Unless you're maybe that person. Like, your engineers, like, tend to be like this. They want Strava. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. All the detail, all the things. There's a small percentage. Most people are like. They get all the things. And like, oh, my God, I didn't realize I'm gonna have to do all of these things. And so you'll. You'll feel like that from. From this trainer. Right.

[Sal DeStefano]

And if you. If you. The reason why this doesn't work is because that's just not how it works. That's not how you develop behavior.

[Adam Schafer]

Exactly.

[Sal DeStefano]

And not how you. You lead of doing this for the rest of your life. This is. This is all the answers to the test, but you never figured out how to do the work. And so now you go into the real world and you're like, oh, cool, you have a degree in this. And you're like, yeah, because I had all the answers. Like, cool. Go figure out this problem. I don't know how to figure out the problem. Give me the answer.

[Justin Andrews]

Never actually done it.

[Sal DeStefano]

It doesn't work this way. A good coach meets you where you're at. You have to be met where you're at. And they have to step by step, this process so that you can develop these disciplines, you can develop these behaviors, work through them, figure out what works, what doesn't work, and it's a process. And that's the only way. It's a real art. That's right.

[Justin Andrews]

You know, with good coaches to know what to present and what time to present it, and to give them just enough so it gives them the work so they can get wins along the way.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right. Next up is the trainer or coach that only talks and never listens. They love to tell you everything and what's going to happen, but they're not asking questions. You know, every time you ask a trainer or coach a question, it's a good Coach will typically ask you a question back because they needed more information. This is just a fact. Hey, what's the best exercise for glutes? Okay, well, what party glutes are looking to work on? What does your workout currently look like? Hey, what's the best form of cardio? Which one do you enjoy doing the most? When's the best time to work out during the day for fat loss? Well, let me know what your schedule looks like and let's talk about this a little bit. Like, what's the best food for this? What's the. A good coach is asking a lot of questions to get more information to really figure this out for you, the person that just talk, talk, talk, talk, talk. It's like going to a mechanic with your, with your car, and the mechanic doesn't even ask you what's wrong. Cool, we'll fix your car. We'll see you later. It's like, I got to know what to do.

[Adam Schafer]

This actually reminds me of a story of a trainer that worked for me. So we've talked about this before. The, like, when you get a sometimes man with, with clients, sometimes you might just go for a walk with them, right? Or maybe an hour session does end up being like a real deep, like personal therapy type of session like that. You get these when. And you, as a good coach and trainer, you'll know when it, when it happens and you'll feel it. And you know, you get, you get to a point where sometimes a workout could look like that, but they're rare, right? It's like, it's not a common thing. I remember I had a trainer who, like, and I remember giving them that of freedom that like, yeah, no, definitely you have a client that you can tell is going through something is stress, not sleeping, personal stuff like that, you beating them up in the gym is a disservice to them. You walking them and maybe, you know, hearing them out and talking to them and stuff like that may be something that's far more beneficial and healthy for them in that moment. And so, like, absolutely, as a, as a leader, I'm like, I'm not going to tell you not to do that. And then I remember that, that this trainer I'm thinking of right now. You know, it became like a, you know, almost every workout she was sitting in the back corner like, you know, Indian style with her client, and they're just like talking for the hour. I'm like, you can't possibly have that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Many clients too much that, yeah, it.

[Adam Schafer]

Turned into like, she figured out that oh my God. Like these people love, love to talk. And they would go in this back area and yo, dude. And it was just like a constant, like you're hanging out with your client.

[Sal DeStefano]

Too far. Yeah, you're exactly too far.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah. You actually have to get these people lift ways. They can't all be in that place, the same place where they, they don't need to work out. And so there is, there are those trainers that they end and I feel like this trainer, likable, personable trainer, you know, they enjoy talking and a lot of clients, you know, they're not going to tell you what the, what to move along the workout. So many times you have these trainers who are so unaware of the situation that they just end up sitting or they'll sit on one machine and they'll talk the whole hour on that, that one piece of equipment. Yeah, yeah. So it's kind of all the same. And it's all due to the spending more talking than they are listening and moving them through the workout.

[Sal DeStefano]

Then you have the know everything guy. This is a trainer that never says, I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. Let me figure that out for you.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

A good coach or a good trainer. Now you may be, you may find the one in a million trainer or coach who's got so much experience and knowledge that they just know a lot of things. But most trainers and coaches know some stuff. They're good at what they know. But what they also know or what they should know is they should know people who know things that they don't, that they could refer to. That's what a good coach is. So when you ask them a question about gut, health or sleep and they're like, you know what, let me find out for you. I know somebody who I think might have the answer that's a good coach or a trainer. The know it all person oftentimes will give advice that is wrong because it's out of their scope. They just don't want to admit it. They're insecure.

[Adam Schafer]

I would throw in this category because I think it's the same, same guy or girl as this. Which is the heavy science person. This is the person that every time they answer you, they reference a study or they, you know, talk in those terms versus maybe their experience of what they've seen or had, had done in the past. And where it does may not always align with a study. But the heavy science nerd or the fresh out of, you know, getting their master's degree kid is like, this is how they talk, they communicate as if their professor was talking to them. They talk to their clients that way. I would put that person in this, this category too. And that's, and that to me, if you're always communicating from that perspective, like that's a red flag that, okay, maybe this trainer knows a lot book smarts, but maybe they haven't had a lot of experience with a lot of people like me or trained people like me.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, yeah, initially the client that's going in might be wowed by your knowledge, your, the terminology and, and know that you have like a good educational background. But then like when you keep going, the, the relatability really drifts off and it's like you can't really connect based on like real life things that you're coming in with because you know you're just going to get talked at totally.

[Sal DeStefano]

And then lastly, the trainer that treats you like a competitor. These tend to be coaches and trainers that compete themselves. And so you hire them to lose weight. And this is a X bodybuilder, maybe a current bodybuilder or physique competitor, bikini competitor. And they're treating you like a competitor with macros and diet and cardio and strength training. And it's going to be this way. And look, I think they have value when they're training competitors who are competing for a specific, you know, goal. Like I have a competition coming up, but for the average person, the last thing you should do is train like a competitor or eat like a competitor. That is not, that's not sustainable for competitors. Competitors don't even do that all the time. They do it only when they compete. And so if their advice is coming from, look, my experience is training bikini competitors, bodybuilders and physique competitors. And you're Mrs. Johnson, you don't have any desire to do that. You just want to lose weight. Like, probably not the best trainer for you.

[Adam Schafer]

This is actually really common in the trainer competitor space. Space meaning if you are a trainer that's competed because you have seen it work at the highest level, therefore you apply it to all these clients. Like you and your clients come in sometimes with goals like that, like, hey, I want to be ripped or I want to look great in a bikini. Like, dude, I have the formula for it. Trust me, I've done it. You know, I've been on stage, I've done this or I've taken people. And so therefore they apply that, that way of training to everybody. So it's really common when you get, and this is this has gotten bigger today with Instagram and how many online coaches that we have, because it seems like anybody who took themselves through a competition and did at all remotely good is now a coach and coach formula. And so then they turn around and they basically do the same thing with all of the clients that they did with themselves. And, man, unless you're training a competitor, that's a failing strategy for most clients. Most clients, I mean, one of the most common things that I found being in that space was, boy, these. Maybe some of these people didn't understand diet that much. Maybe some of them were their programming good, but their discipline and their sacrifice was insane. And so it takes a very unique person to be able to compete and get on stage. And if you think that that's the average per avatar, you're crazy. Like, very few people are that regimen and discipline. And if you approach training your clients the same way you approach getting ready for a show or getting another client ready for a show, you're gonna have.

[Sal DeStefano]

These kind of coaches oftentimes destroy people's metabolism. They crash their bodies, they destroy people's hormones, because that's what competition does. Getting ready to be on stage is a very unhealthy way to diet and exercise. And you applies to the average. These are people we'd have to heal.

[Adam Schafer]

I'm so glad you're bringing this up, because one of the hallmarks of. Of a bad coach and I guess you would fit them in this category, is taking a client and putting them on an extreme diet when they're not in a good place metabolically.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right.

[Adam Schafer]

And so I don't even care. I had people that wanted to compete, and I could. Could get them ready for show that I would refuse just because I knew they weren't metabolically ready. We. I'd do an assessment of their diet, and I'd be like, you're eating 16, 1700 calories. You're at 25, 30 body fat. You want me to get you on.

[Justin Andrews]

Stage, where to go?

[Adam Schafer]

No way. And they would give me a date like, oh, I want to get ready for November, whatever show you. I'm like, in 12 weeks or 16 weeks, I'm like, yeah, no, not happening. I already know where you're at currently right now, that I can't just put you on a diet where some of these coaches or a lot of these coaches will take somebody from that position. So that in itself is a major.

[Sal DeStefano]

They get clients afterwards with hormone profiles that are. Get wrecked with health issues that they end up causing and Then you. We end up having, you know, we were. Sometimes they are callers, by the way. Sometimes we have callers that are calling in.

[Justin Andrews]

Yes.

[Sal DeStefano]

Happens a lot that came out of that. And they're like, yeah, I didn't get a period for a year or two years afterwards. I destroyed my metabolism. What do I do? We got to reverse them and help them out because they were treated like a competitor when they definitely shouldn't have.

[Adam Schafer]

You know, I'm so glad you. You're saying this right now, because I didn't even think about talking about this, that I. And I do think this is such an important time to bring this up, because there's a. There's a lot of people that think that signing up for a bikini contest or show is a good idea to get themselves in shape. And there's a lot of coaches that will take those people's money, even though they shouldn't. So one way to know, and I don't know if this falls in this. This coach or not, but if you've ever considered doing that and your coach doesn't do, like some sort of a metabolic test with you or get an idea of where your current calories are before they put you on a competitive diet, huge red flag right away because that was the first thing I would do when someone. Someone asked me that, hey, I want to do a show in X amount of time. I say, okay, well, check your food for the next two weeks. Let me see kind of where you're at. And when I would see these people at 1500, 1600 calories and a long way to go for the. From stage ready. There's no way I would do that. I just. It just. I. I would. My integrity wouldn't allow me to do that. I feel like a good coach would always do that first before they would just take that person's money.

[Sal DeStefano]

Right. Look, if you like Mind Pump, come find us on Instagram. We'll see you. It's at mindpump Media.

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