2693: The Fastest Gains You’ll Ever See

Summary

Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth

Episode 2693: The Fastest Gains You’ll Ever See
Sal Di Stefano, Adam Schafer, Justin Andrews, Doug Egge
Date: September 26, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this episode, the Mind Pump crew dives deep into the power of isometric training, presenting it as the most effective and underutilized tool for rapid strength gains. Backed by historical context, scientific data, and personal anecdotes, the hosts break down why isometrics could be the “hidden gem” of resistance training. The episode also covers topics like the risks of being under-muscled versus overweight, how to get back from injury, navigating fitness business in a social media world, and practical guidance for optimizing everyday health and performance.

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Main Theme: Fastest Strength Gains with Isometrics

The conversation centers on the claim that overcoming isometrics (maximal contractions against immovable objects) deliver the quickest improvements in strength—faster than traditional reps or negatives—while being as effective for hypertrophy and much safer for joints and tendons. The hosts elaborate on why this method, popularized by old-school strongmen, deserves a comeback, and how modern lifters are missing out.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Why Isometrics? (03:00–08:20)

• Fastest Strength Gains:
  “The data shows that isometric training, in particular overcoming isometrics, produces the fastest gains in strength in a short period of time in comparison to any other form of strength training.” — Sal (04:07)
• Hypertrophy, Too: Isometrics aren’t just for strength. Muscle growth is comparable to traditional training, so you don’t trade mass for power.
• History Lessons: Old-time strongmen (Sandow, et al.) used isometrics as a foundation of their routines—this was before steroids or fancy equipment.

Why So Few Do Them (08:21–10:48)

• Lack of Visibility & Instant Gratification:
  “Isometrics is slow and boring... If you made a video, it looks like I’m doing nothing.” — Adam (08:38)
• Discipline & Patience Required: The benefits are “invisible” week-to-week, so few commit to a dedicated block.

The Science of Maximal Muscle Fiber Recruitment (10:48–13:16)

• Max Recruitment:
  “Nothing recruits more muscle fibers like a hard isometric against an object that you can’t move.” — Sal (10:50)
• Applicability: This effect works for both novices and veterans; it’s as close as you get to 100% recruitment regardless of training age.

Unique Benefits of Isometrics (13:16–20:41)

• High Benefit, Low Risk:
  “With isometrics, you have simultaneously an extremely effective movement that’s also very safe.” — Sal (13:17)
• Target Weak Points: Isos can be set up at sticking points to rapidly annihilate plateaus in lifts.
• Mobility & Pain Relief: Isometrics provide instant improvements in range of motion and pain, due to their neurological and analgesic effects.
• Bring Up Lagging Body Parts:
  “Nothing better than isometrics. Part of the reason why you have a lagging body part is you just can’t connect to it very well.” — Sal (17:27)

Application & Practical Advice (20:41–25:25)

• Carryover: Strength from isometrics translates directly to traditional lifts, especially if you train sticking points.
• Efficient Recovery: Less soreness and damage allows for frequent, high-intensity sessions.
• Beginner-Friendly:
  “I probably, as a trainer, would have really benefited from starting most my clients all in an isometric phase.” — Adam (20:42)

Tendon & Injury Prevention Benefits (25:25–27:10)

• Tendon Strength:
  “For tendon strength, it’s the best. Now why tendon strength? Why is that so important? It’s often the limiting factor. And if you have tendons that are like steel cables, you are strong.” — Sal (25:25)
• Pain Relief Mechanisms: Isometrics stimulate both tendon remodeling and genuine pain relief via nervous-system modulation.

Implementation Details (21:42–23:12)

• Simple setups: Chains, squat rack safety bars, concrete anchors—no fancy tools needed.
• Old gyms had dedicated setups:
  “You could bolt, put two anchors into the concrete, attach chains to it…” — Sal (22:50)

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On Isometrics’ Visibility:
  “Go walk into a commercial gym and point out how many people you see doing isometrics. You rarely ever see it. It’s going to be a novel stimulus for most people.” — Adam (20:42)
• Old School vs. Now:
  “Nobody does this ever. If I did a poll of all the millions of people that could potentially be watching this, I bet you less than 0.01% have ever done a training block of just isometric.” — Sal (08:18)
• On Strength Transfer:
  “Whenever you can’t do a lift, it’s almost never the whole rep. There’s like one part…you get stronger in that one part, the entire rep becomes much easier.” — Sal (19:17)

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Important Timestamps & Segments

• 03:00: Sal introduces isometrics as the “hidden gem” for fastest strength gains.
• 04:51: Doug and Sal discuss safety and muscle-fiber recruitment.
• 08:21: Adam reflects on lack of patience in today’s gym culture.
• 10:48: Sal and Doug explain maximal muscle recruitment with isometrics.
• 13:16: Discussion on how isometrics are both safe and effective.
• 17:35: Adam on correcting weak points with contracted position isometrics.
• 20:41: Adam, Doug, and Sal on why nobody does isometrics and the lack of feedback during training.
• 25:25: Sal on tendon health and rare levels of “hidden” strength.
• 31:46: Sal shifts to a study about BMI, being underweight vs. overweight mortality risk.
• 39:51: How GLP-1 drugs can lead to dangerous muscle loss if not paired with lifting.
• 42:19: Sal on guiding his daughter’s journey into lifting and balancing parental influence.
• 56:52: Q&A: Time-efficient muscle growth – more sets, less rest vs. fewer sets, more rest.
• 59:12: Q&A: Overcoming injuries (mental and physical recovery).
• 63:50: Q&A: Returning to training after surgery – go slow!
• 65:32: Q&A: Building a fitness business without social media – old-school, community-driven success.

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Additional Highlights

• Protein Snack Endorsement: The team reviews a new protein pretzel product – high protein, high fiber, gluten hydrolyzed (28:27–30:49).
• GLP-1s (weight loss drugs): Discussing the downside of fast weight loss without resistance training:
  “You may be trading one problem for another. You don’t have protective muscle.” — Sal (36:28)
• Injury Mental Blocks: Adam recounts returning from an Achilles tear and the importance of exposure therapy for mental and physical full recovery (59:12).
• Fitness Business Without Social Media:
  “You can build an incredible nutrition and fitness business, even online, without ever being on social media.” — Sal (65:32)
  “Hit the pavement. Go outside, talk to people— you’ll build your business faster.” — Sal (68:09)

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Recommendations from the Hosts

• Try an Isometric Block:
  “I think it’s better if people just do a whole block. I want people to really feel the power of this.” — Sal (19:14)
• If on GLP-1 Drugs: Always pair with a solid resistance training routine to preserve muscle.
• Recovering from Injury: Use graded exposure—don’t rush but don’t avoid the problem.
• Fitness Business: Start local, get involved in the real world and layer in online later.

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Summary

This episode is an impassioned manifesto for isometric strength training—praised for its unique ability to recruit all muscle fibers rapidly, address weak points, and build both muscle and resilient tendons, all while remaining unusually safe. The hosts deliver this message with their signature humor and practical wisdom, providing a blueprint for anyone seeking rapid, safe progress in the gym, recovery from setbacks, or building a fitness practice from scratch.

Bottom line: If you want the fastest strength gains you’ll ever see—stop chasing novelty and start leveraging the lost art of isometrics.

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Transcript

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[Adam Schaefer]

Like we live here.

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That's why governments, brands and recycling companies are all joining together to bring change.

[Adam Schaefer]

To make recycling better.

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As in trusting that your recyclables end.

[Adam Schaefer]

Up in the right places to be.

[Sal Destefano]

Made into new things and having brands help fund the cost of recycling. You can find the Latest [e-mail] Oregon. From Mount Hood to the bin under your desk. Together we can do this.

[Justin Andrews]

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go.

[Sal Destefano]

Mind Pump. Mind Pump. With your hosts Sal Destefano, Adam Schaefer.

[Justin Andrews]

And Justin Andrews, you just found the.

[Sal Destefano]

Most downloaded fitness, health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump. In today's episode we pick questions from our Instagram page Imepump Media to answer. But this was after our intro. Today's intro was 53 minutes long. In the intro we talk about building muscle, burning body fat, improving health and fitness. We also talk about family life. Again, if you want to post a question that we may pick, go to Instagram Impump Media. Now. This episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one, it's a brand new one, Crisp Power. These are protein pretzels, like 25 grams of protein, 10 grams of fiber per bag. And they're really delicious. These are some of the most delicious snacks we've tried. They're high in protein. Again, it's a great healthy snack. Go check them out. Go to crisppower.com that's C-R-I S P O W E R.com use the code mindpump10. Get 10% off. This episode is also brought to you by Organifi. Today we talked about their green juice. It has Ashwagandha in it. So if you want your body to adapt to stress better, you want to build more muscle and strength and also get lots of micronutrients from greens. Try it out. It's their green juice Organifi. It's Organifi.com mindpump use the code mindpump get 20% off. Also right now, flash sale maps performance is 50% off, half off. One of our most popular maps programs, head over to mapsperformance.com use the code athlete50. That's athlete50 for that discount. All right, real quick.

[Doug]

If you love us like we love you, why not show up by rocking one of our shirts, hats, mugs, or training gear [e-mail] I'm talking right now. Hit pause, Head over to mypumpstore.com.

[Adam Schaefer]

That'S it.

[Doug]

Enjoy the rest of the show.

[Sal Destefano]

All right, all of you that like to build muscle and strength and look awesome. I'm about to blow your mind. The data shows that there is a particular type of contraction, a particular type of lifting that produces the fastest gains. The fastest gains, and I guarantee 99.9% of you are not using. We're going to talk about it right now. 8 Ways. ISometrics will give you the fastest gains you've ever seen in your entire life.

[Adam Schaefer]

If you're. If you're tired of us talking about.

[Doug]

These anytime, we can bring it up.

[Adam Schaefer]

Hey, listen. Until we go into commercial gyms and see a, a small fraction of people doing them, then maybe. But it's like we're going to continue to, to beat this drum, to scream from the rooftops, like, how impactful and valuable isometrics are because you still don't see it. It reminds me, would you imagine 25 years ago being the person that's trying to convince everybody to squat?

[Sal Destefano]

Like, you got a squat.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's so valuable. It's so valuable.

[Doug]

So many benefits.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yes. Like, come on, 25 years ago, the squat racks were dusty and nobody was doing it. It's obvious now everybody gets that. But it's like, here's your other hidden gym. Isometrics.

[Sal Destefano]

It's not just a hidden gem. If you look at the data on isometrics training, in particular the overcoming isometrics, the type where you're pressing or pulling into an immovable object, they produce the fastest gains in strength in a short period of time in comparison to any other form of strength training. They're faster than reps that are positive, faster than negative, faster than explosive. Like, there is no form of strength training that compares. If you were to do this for like a five or six or maybe eight week period of time in terms of strength gains, this is the fastest way you could possibly gain strength. And what's beautiful about this is that nobody's doing them. Yeah. Nobody's taking advantage of them.

[Doug]

The most Amount of damage, the safest to apply. Uh, the, the easiest way for you to ramp up and you know, maximize your recruitment, muscle, recruitment process. So it's like, you know, to, to be able to have, you know, more force output. Like there really isn't another method that, that does that as effective?

[Sal Destefano]

No. And now the question people always ask is okay, cool. The data shows that it's the fastest gains in strength. But what about hypertrophy? Comparable. So what you'll get with isometrics is very, very quick ramp up in a short period of time of strength or force output. And the hypertrophy gains are similar to traditional reps. In other words, you're not going to lose gains by doing a five week block of isometrics. You're going to gain just like you normally do, except your strength is going to go through the roof. And then I don't think I need to make the case, but I'll just spell it out for you with those additional, with the, the new additional strength gains that you made in that five week period, let's say now you could go back to your traditional lifting and you blow the doors off of what you would have been doing before. Yeah, it's incredible. By the way, this is, this was a favorite way of training for old time lifters back at the, you know, during the Bronze era. You know, these are just like the turn of the century, right? Late 1800s, early 1900s. Sandow and all them, they were competitions. There were people, there were men mostly, there were some women that would go around and they would do these feats of strength and this is how they would make money. Some worked in circuses, but many of them would do these feats of strength on their own. And it was all about what you could do. Remember this is before steroids, this is before supplements. They just had weights, that's all they had. In fact, they didn't have benches, they had barbells and dumbbells and that was it. And they would go and do these incredible feats of strength. Eugene Sandow, I believe one arm bent, pressed over 250 pounds, something ridiculous at a body weight of like 180 pounds. They had incredible looking physiques, especially when you consider that they were as natural as natural could be. They also oftentimes had hard labor jobs. It wasn't their full time profession and they, this was a favorite way that they were trained because in those days if you wanted to be a successful, you know, presentation competitor, if you wanted to be a successful strongman in those days, you had to put up or shut up. And they would oftentimes challenge each other. So they would meet up and say, okay, let's see who could lift the most weight. So it was like, look, it's all about what you can do. And what they found was isometrics were super effective. They were so effective, in fact, and so popular that the, some of the first strength training books revolved around isometrics and that now they fell out of favor probably for a few different reasons, like modern equipment came into play, bodybuilding became popular. And, you know, and by the way, there's nothing wrong with full range of motion. If you had to compare all of them, that's the best, right? But what's happened, which is a total travesty, is that nobody does this. Nobody does this.

[Adam Schaefer]

We have no patience.

[Sal Destefano]

Not only does nobody do this, nobody does this ever. Nobody even plays with this. I don't. In fact, if I did a poll of all the millions of people that could potentially be watching this, I bet you less than 0.01% have ever done a training block.

[Adam Schaefer]

No.

[Sal Destefano]

Definitely of just isometric. Definitely. Almost never.

[Adam Schaefer]

We don't even sell, we don't even watch movies anymore. We watch TikTok reels. I mean, talk about a major hurdle for us to get people to try to do this in a time where instant gratification and faster, quicker, everything. Isometrics is slow and boring.

[Sal Destefano]

That's.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's just a fact. It just, it's not have that built.

[Doug]

In reward, like after.

[Sal Destefano]

Well, like, what are you doing? If you, if I made a video of it, it just looks like I'm doing nothing.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yes, you're just boring. You're sitting still, you're not moving, you're not. It's almost as if you're not doing anything. Although you are doing something, it looks like you're doing nothing. And the, the discipline, the patience required to, to actually run a full training block so you could actually reap the full benefits. I mean, I could see someone doing it one time in their workout, like, oh, let me try this. It's like. But to do a legit block. I mean, I remember when we were writing Symmetry and I remember Justin wanted to make the whole first phase three, four weeks. And I remember my pushback on it was like, I just don't see anybody committing a lot. In fact, I believe if we could just get them to do two weeks, they'll see enough benefits from it that they'll understand why we did it. But if we do a whole block of Four weeks. These people are.

[Sal Destefano]

They won't even follow it.

[Adam Schaefer]

They won't follow it.

[Sal Destefano]

No, no. Which is why we have to sell it. So let's, let's get into selling it. So, and this is all backed by data. If you don't believe me, look it up. So this isn't just our opinion, this is like, it's actually a well studied form of strength training. There's lots and lots of studies on it. So number one, it will recruit the most muscle fibers. So whenever you're doing a lift, there's a certain percentage of muscle fibers in the muscles that are being worked that get recruited. And as the exercise becomes more difficult, you recruit more and more muscle fibers. Training to failure tends to recruit more muscle fibers than training at 50%. Okay. Nothing recruits more muscle fibers like a hard isometric against an object that you can't move. Like, what does that look like? Well, it would be like me getting under a bar, you know, towards the bottom position of a squat and trying to squat it up. Except the bar is anchored to the ground. It's not going anywhere because you're putting maximal intensity. And because the muscles aren't actually moving, they're not going through a range of motion, they're just pushing. The body is recruits more and more muscle fibers because it thinks there's no limiter. It thinks you're trying to do something to protect yourself.

[Doug]

Weights are a natural limiter.

[Sal Destefano]

Yes.

[Doug]

You're only going to recruit and generate enough to overcome the load. And when you remove that part of the process, like really it's the limiter is just your own effort. And so to, to really squeeze, you know, that, that extra bit and, and you know, produce more effort. It's going to stretch your capacity now to recruit even more muscle fibers then. And so it's an interesting thing because I don't think people realize that is when you go back to actually lifting weights, you keep that ability. You keep it.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, I remember, I don't remember what we called it or, you know, who, like how it came to be, other than I was hanging out with these older bodybuilder guys and they used to take like this was back when I couldn't even bench two plates. They would take three plates, you know, and lift it over. And you said to hold it. Yeah, yeah, I said to hold it. And we, I wasn't, wasn't going anywhere, you know, I wasn't taking a negative thing like that. It was just like, just hold it, hold it there. And I remember being scared to death, like I can't even do two plates. What am I doing with three plates? Just trust me, you know, But I do remember the, how I felt afterwards. I mean, then two plates felt controllable and like, it was crazy how, how I. They did it to me in squats too. I felt like those two things really got me over a hurdle in those two big lifts in my early 20s, that I just couldn't imagine getting past that. And, you know, looking back, understanding now the science more is like, oh, now I understand what I was doing and why it benefited so much.

[Sal Destefano]

It's the closest you could ever get to 100% muscle fiber recruitment is with an isometric. And here's the beautiful kicker. This works for everybody. So the thing with muscle fiber recruitment is the more advanced you become, the easier it is for you to recruit more muscle fibers. So an advanced lifter, they've trained their body to be able to recruit more muscle fibers just through adaptation and practice than a beginner. But with a, an isometric, everybody gets pretty damn close. As long as the effort is there, everybody gets pretty darn close. So again, there is no type of muscle contraction that will induce this type of muscle fiber recruitment, regardless of how experienced or inexperienced you are. Which takes us to the next thing. Rarely, rarely, rarely, rarely do you see something that is super effective and super safe.

[Doug]

High benefit, low risk.

[Sal Destefano]

It's almost never that way. The most effective exercises typically have a high degree of skill, so that puts their risk factor quite high. Unless you perform the exercise really well. Like squats, barbell squats, like phenomenal lower body exercise. It's like one of the best, if not the best. It's also very technical. Like a leg press is way easier to do. Yeah. You know, this is true for almost every strength training exercise. Well, guess what? With isometrics, you have simultaneously extremely effective type of movement that's also very safe. Now, why is it safe? You're not moving. So long as you maintain your position and drive, you're not gonna hurt yourself. Or your. Or your odds of hurting yourself are very, very low in comparison to other forms of exercise. In fact, isometrics are how oftentimes how you rehab people with joint issues. And then again, you take someone who's advanced, who's never done these, and like, let's do these, and they get incredible gains. Like, rarely do you see that combination. But you do see this with isometrics.

[Adam Schaefer]

Great tool for trainers too. With clients with advanced age.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Or rehabbing. Right. So to your point, rehabbing or advanced age clients, you get massive benefits and super safe to do.

[Sal Destefano]

Yes. Now, here's one of my favorite things about it is it can target weak spots of a rep very easily. We all have these. Think of your favorite lift. There's probably a sticking point, right. Once you get it past that sticking point, then the weight moves up. So like in a bench press, it might be near the bottom. With a squat, it might be near the bottom. Maybe it's a lockout with your deadlift. Some people pause there, have a difficult time there. Maybe it's just coming off the floor. Well, guess what? You set up your isometric in your weak spot and you're going to blow past that weak spot. You will make that weak spot of strength within weeks. Within three or four weeks, your sticking spot with your squat or your deadlift or your overhead press or whatever, within three weeks will probably become a strength. Then you go back to do your.

[Doug]

Lift and suddenly train your central nervous system to respond. It's those, like, weak points. It's very doable.

[Sal Destefano]

That's right. And power lifters, by the way, have done this for years. They just pause. They do a form of isometrics where they pause and they'll pause at the bottom or the positive particular part, whatever. And then some of them do these, you know, where you're overcoming isometrics, which is the most powerful version. But yeah, if you look at your rep and you're like, man, I can't get my deadlift to go up. Really? It's not that you can't get your deadlift to go up. It's. It's more like, I can't get it to go up past this point. Once I get it past that point, I'm all good.

[Doug]

And you're talking mainly about performance too. Like, I mean, this is where like mobility really shines as well. Like, so if you have a range of motion that you can't achieve because you have a weak spot there or a pain, you know, signal to now, like, take that point of where you either lose connection or, you know, you're, you're just about to, to get that pain signal and you just stop and pause and apply an isometric hold and recruitment there. Watch you all of a sudden immediately get pain relief.

[Sal Destefano]

I didn't even.

[Doug]

Or immediately gain new access to range of motion.

[Sal Destefano]

I didn't even put that as a point. Justin. For pain relief, isometrics shine. I used to do this with my elderly clients all the time. Knee pain. I would put them in a position either fully move. Yeah. Either fully contracted or Even fully flexed, depending on the person, I'd have them drive while I pushed. So they just create resistance, no movement. Then they'd stand up, pain's gone. Look at the data on this. Isometrics have this incredible analgesic effect and strengthening effect for pain. This is. And Prime Pro is all about isometrics, by the way. You go through our really good program concept. Yeah, it's incredible. Here's a great selling point that I know people will love. You have a lagging body part. Nothing better than isometrics. Part of the reason why you have a lagging body part is you just can't connect to it too well, very well. Especially when doing compound lifts. You're doing a squat or a bench or whatever, and you. You. There's a, you know, target muscle that's just not doing the work. Get into that position, that hard position. Drive into something that's immovable, focus on the target muscle, and drive for 20 seconds. Try this for a few weeks. This is your chest workout. Let's say go back to your traditional way of training. Suddenly, lagging body part no longer is.

[Adam Schaefer]

A lagging part, especially in the contracted position. This is Ben Pakulski. I remember the first time I talked to him about this. He made an argument that he believed, especially if you actually train those muscle groups. Right. That if you had a lagging body part that was really weak, he said always that person was not very well connected in the contracted portion. And his experience, he's like, if you just focused on that, that you brought that body part up so much. And so if it's a lagging body part, think about doing isometrics in the contracted position on whatever muscle.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, it's so funny, too, because I think we knew this instinctively as trainers. You know, you'd get a client. It's like, I don't feel my butt when I do squats. Like, what would you do? You put them at a top of a hip bridge.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yep, hip bridge.

[Sal Destefano]

And hold it and just squeeze the hell out of your butt. And then suddenly, when doing squats, they can connect to that area next up. It translates very well to traditional reps. The strength gains you get in isometrics, when you go back to your traditional reps, there's the strength. It's not like you get stronger with force production in an isometric. And then you go lift weights and you don't see that translate. You will see strength gains across the board, especially if you target the parts of your.

[Adam Schaefer]

Why do you think that is? Because it kind of flies in the face of, like, the said principle, doesn't it? Because it's not. It's not specific to what you're doing. So why is it that we see that with isometrics and not really anything.

[Sal Destefano]

Else, if you focus in particular on the weak spot of your rep. So whenever you do an isometric, there's about a 20 degree both directions that you'll see it carry over. So let's say I'm at the bottom of a bench and I'm under a bar, and it's loaded with, you know, £600. So I can't lift it. So I just drive into it. I'm going to get strengthened. The position that I'm pushing in plus.

[Doug]

20 degrees above and below both ends.

[Sal Destefano]

So if you target the weak spot of your rep, you know what your weak spots of the reps are. Yeah. And you focus on this. Then you go to your traditional lift and that. Because whenever you can't do a lift, I'm going to say this again. Like, whenever you can't do a lift, it's almost never the whole rep. There's like one part, and if your buddy's spotting you, they help you out of that one part, and then suddenly you can lift the weight, you get stronger in that one part, the entire rep becomes much easier. Yep, that's it. 100%. Next. It doesn't require as much recovery, doesn't cause a lot of damage. You don't get very sore doing these. This allows the adaptation to really take place. Another plus with this, and I'm gonna say this, I think it's better if people just do a whole block. I want people to really feel the power of this. But you could, if you're not on the border of over training right now, if you're doing pretty. If you're pretty smart with your training, you could add some isometrics and you're not going to really tax yourself that much and just see some benefits. So you could add a couple of them, by the way, at the beginning of your workout would be the best place to do it. Not at the end. People tend to do them at the end. Do them at the beginning. Next. Everybody knows about this. When you try something novel, you just get great gains. Yep. I can't think if you. If I had to. If I thought of the entire fitness community, people who worked out consistently, and if you had to pick Sal, what's the most novel thing they could possibly do to build muscle? Be isometrics. That would apply to almost everybody.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, yeah, because for that.

[Sal Destefano]

Because nobody does it.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, yeah. The reason why I brought this all up, how we started this, is that, you know, go walk into a commercial gym and point out how many people you see doing isometrics. You rarely ever see it. And so it's going to be a novel stimulus. Stimulus for most people. The truth is, you know, and we wrote symmetry this way. So if you're inspired by this, symmetry is such a good program to. To follow. If you've never followed that. But knowing what I know now about isometrics and the value of it and seeing how we programmed in symmetry, I probably, as a trainer, would have really benefited from starting most my clients all in a isometric phase. The challenge of that is those clients who don't understand this, don't know, and there's like, wow, I'm paying this guy for me to just stand here. I squeeze and hold.

[Doug]

Conveying the benefit and really getting to buy into the concept.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yes.

[Sal Destefano]

Well, the problem, the big problem is this. Adam and I think Justin tried to solve this when he had created his tool is. Yeah. When you're driving into a bar that you can't move and you get stronger week over week, you can't tell because the bar doesn't.

[Doug]

You don't get feedback. You don't have, like, a tangible metric that you're sort of.

[Sal Destefano]

Nothing tells you. Oh, you produce 50% more force. The time you can tell is when you go back to your traditional lift.

[Adam Schaefer]

Only anybody created. Like.

[Doug]

Someday it'll be relevant.

[Sal Destefano]

Everybody will be like, oh, wow. Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Remember we talked about this in the pipes at one point, when I. They will come in. They will come into favor. Eventually the. The people will know, and then it'll become popular. Just like squats. We're just. You were 20 years ahead of your time.

[Doug]

I was way too early. And the thing is, too, like, you can apply this without anything. You don't need tech. You don't need, like. And so if you have. And what I love, too, if. If nobody's ever seen before, it's. It's just a chain that's bolted to a board. And so you could do this on like a. Like, let's say it's a deadlift platform. And like, you step on top of this board and you bolt the chain. Now you have a handle grip, and you can adjust the chain to whatever height. So let's now work. Let's say it's a deadlift, and I'm gonna. I need to work on, you know, the lowest part of the deadlift and. And and you know, you could set it up and, and really, you know, get so much out of that by, by applying like this torque and effort.

[Adam Schaefer]

Old school gyms used to have that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. My old school gym that I used to work, I used to have a setup like that.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. If you have a home gym even what you could do if it's like it's in your garage, is you could bolt. You could put two anchors into the concrete, attach chains to it, and then you could put your bench underneath it. You could stand there. And it depends, you know, you can.

[Adam Schaefer]

Make long safety bars on the squat rack.

[Sal Destefano]

You could also load it up real heavy and just.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You can use the safety bars on the squat rack and, and do the same. You can rest, raise those and to your point with the deadlift, you figure this is your sticking point this far off the ground. You put the safety bars there and you put the bar bar underneath it.

[Doug]

You know, it's funny because, I mean, I might have told you guys, like, I got to the point even with this invention where I presented in front of Apple, you know, and I'm in this big meeting and you know, they, they have all the tech and stuff with like the closing the loops and so they're all, you know, privy to try and like work on human behavior and like, how do we get them engaged and all this kind of stuff. So they were somewhat mildly interested in, but one of the guys was like, kind of compared it to Bosu ball. Like, here's the thing, nobody knew the value of like balance training. Like, that had to be something that you build and develop into, you know, the consciousness of society first. Like, they have to like, understand like, this is something that is really beneficial and is something that, like, people have seen it before and like, you know, so it's, it really has to be a cultural thing for people to, to really buy in to that type of train because it's just so like, well, why, that's right.

[Sal Destefano]

As soon as some people do it and then get blown away and post the results, then it's going to start to fly.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's 100%.

[Sal Destefano]

It will.

[Adam Schaefer]

I, I, I believe, I believe it will. I mean, 25 years ago, we all talking about squats, nobody, nobody's, nobody was questioning why nobody was doing in the gym. It was just kind of the norm. It was just like, oh yeah, nobody really does them. You know, we, we leg press instead, we hack squat instead. It's like there's stuff like, yet we now look at how many People tout the deadlift, the squat, and it's just like. So I don't know, I think there. I think there'll come a time when, you know, all it takes is the. The right famous person at the right time to share something like that. You know, imagine Phil Heath during his, you know, eight championship run or something like that, attributing it to his isometric training.

[Sal Destefano]

That would have blown up.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, would have blown up. I mean, then every magazine pick it up. Yeah, yeah. Just going to take that. And then when people go actually truly apply it, I mean, it's like what we see with symmetry. When the clients actually go through that phase, they're always blown away by, oh, my God, it was. I can't believe how well that worked. It's like, yeah, it's pretty powerful.

[Sal Destefano]

And last, the data shows this is. This is where isometrics really blow the doors off of things. For tendon strength. It's the best. Yeah, it's the best. Now why tendon strength? Why is that so important? Why? So I don't, I don't tear attendant or whatever.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

But let's talk about strength for a second. When you see an athlete or a strength athlete, and we've all seen them right where you look at them and you go, how is it on earth that that person can lift that much weight? They're not even that big. You know, that's like 160 pound guy. He's deadlifting 550 pounds. Or that. You know, how is it that some people just.

[Doug]

Yeah, we used to call it wiring.

[Sal Destefano]

Are so much stronger than they look. There's a few different reasons, but one of them is their tendons are incredibly strong. It's like steel cables. Oftentimes what limits your strength isn't your muscles, it's your tendons. Because if your body senses that the tendon cannot support, the muscle can be a governor. There's no strength. There's no strength there because you're going to injure yourself. Tendon strength, dare I say, is more important than muscle strength when it comes to performance. Oftentimes it's a limiting factor. And if you have tendons that are like steel cables, you are strong. You are very, very strong. So. And again, the data shows it's. It stiffens and strengthens tendons like nothing else.

[Adam Schaefer]

Do you think that also plays a role in the point that Justin made that you added, which was the. What it does for relieving pain, too? You think that has a factor there too?

[Sal Destefano]

The analgesic effect has more to do with literally releasing pain, relieving chemicals in an isometric. Also with how the central nervous system then starts to communicate with that joint.

[Doug]

It provides security around the joint. So that's the feedback it's getting. But, yeah, it does. Really? You release chemicals?

[Sal Destefano]

Yes, yes, yes. Pretty cool. All right, we got a new partner I'd like to talk about.

[Adam Schaefer]

I saw this and want to talk about this.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. Because pull them up so we can look at the macros.

[Adam Schaefer]

Okay. First of all, if for the audience that doesn't know this, we've shared probably maybe a handful of times in the past whenever we've had a new partner. So the process in which a new partner comes on here is. Is ran pretty much by Sal. Justin and I have just opted out of.

[Doug]

He's the gatekeeper for sure.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, he's the gatekeeper when it comes to the science. And does it align with our values and everything that we do. And so he normally approves. Then I go with Katrina. We negotiate contracts. That's kind of the. So we got this. These protein pretzels that came in, and I loved them. The staff loved them. Everybody was eating them.

[Doug]

Well, staff was gobbling them up.

[Adam Schaefer]

And Sal kind of poo pooed him at first, and I was like, oh, man. And I get it, because I know that they have gluten in them. And so. But I was so bummed because I really liked them. My son liked them. Like, we. We. They sent us cases over. We ate them all up. I saw the staff eating them, and then now I see them on there. So something has opened your mind a little bit to allowing them to be a partnership with us. And so I want to hear where. What was the change of heart? Did we just guilt you enough?

[Sal Destefano]

No, no. They offered a lot of money.

[Adam Schaefer]

I know it wasn' that either I'm the one to negotiate the contract. It wasn't. It wasn't even a big money deal.

[Sal Destefano]

No. We've turned down a lot of partners because it didn't work. So it. It does have gluten. And one of the main ingredients is wheat. And I'm sensitive to gluten. However, they source their wheat from Australia and they. They hydrolyze the gluten, which for many people allows it to be tolerated. Plus, not everybody's sensitive to gluten. Okay, so a good majority of people are actually not sensitive to gluten. There is a sizable minority that has to stay away. But a lot of people can eat gluten, especially if it's well sourced wheat.

[Adam Schaefer]

So that Was my argument on why I felt like, come on, we have to be open. I get that you can't and so understandable.

[Sal Destefano]

But I had a bag. I had a bag. I felt okay. It didn't feel like I ate a.

[Adam Schaefer]

Bag of bread or something.

[Sal Destefano]

No, I didn't feel like that. I felt okay. I didn't have more than one bag. They tasted really well. They were really delicious, you know, snack.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean like they're lower on the calorie for 26 to 28 grams of protein.

[Sal Destefano]

Okay, so what does that say, Doug? This is a bag of their protein pretzels and I haven't had those.

[Adam Schaefer]

The Flamin Crunch.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Looks good. Yes. So it's 200 calories for the bag and 26 grams of protein.

[Sal Destefano]

Of protein? Yeah, of protein. And how many grams of fiber?

[Justin Andrews]

Let's see here. 10 grams of fiber.

[Sal Destefano]

10 grams of fiber, yeah. So it's a high fiber, high protein snack. Now here's the thing with snacks like this. Like they taste good, hyper palatable, you know, could make you want to eat more. We've talked about that many times. But it's so high in protein, so high in fiber. I think it's a, if you're going to grab a bag of something, I mean even, it's a good choice.

[Adam Schaefer]

Even two bags, two bags is 400 calories. Now you're eating a 50 gram, 50 plus gram protein snack with 20 grams. Like, I mean that, that I love macro wise, taste wise. And so, so if you're not gluten intolerant, this is an incredible snack.

[Sal Destefano]

And even if you have a mild intolerance, I'd say try them because of the. So you've heard, you've heard people say this before, right? Like, oh, I go to Europe or I go overseas. I have the, the gluten and it doesn't bother me.

[Doug]

It's a little bit of a different.

[Sal Destefano]

I think there's difference. I definitely think there's a difference.

[Adam Schaefer]

So anyway, I'm just glad that you were open minded enough because I know originally it was like one of those.

[Sal Destefano]

Well, what sold me is I had the staff try it. I put the whole box out there. Yeah. And I'll try. I told all the trainers, hey, you guys try these. Let me know what you think.

[Doug]

They're big fans.

[Sal Destefano]

I came back the next day and they're like, it's delicious. It's really good.

[Adam Schaefer]

No, they're awesome. So I'm a fan, so I'm excited. I'm glad. We'll see how Our audience receives it. I hope it's something that they all like as much as I like. But I thought it was pretty cool. It was actually connected to somebody too, who we interviewed, I want to say, in the first 100 episodes.

[Doug]

Keto head or something.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, it used to be his handle. I don't think this is handle anymore.

[Sal Destefano]

Keto Head, Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

So do you remember?

[Sal Destefano]

Yes, yeah, I remember him.

[Doug]

It was at the Spartan Race.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yes, it was at the Spartan Race when we were doing all those interviews. I don't remember what year that was.

[Sal Destefano]

Early on, like seven years ago maybe?

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, at least that.

[Justin Andrews]

Probably 2017.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, wow. Even longer.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, yeah, yeah, it was early. Mind pump. It was well before this studio. It might have been at the last studio. So it was a long time ago when we did that first Spartan thing.

[Sal Destefano]

So I got a study. I'm a change direction. So I got to study that. And I'd love. I think you guys are going to know the direction I'm going with this. But I'll tell you guys about the study. This was a large analysis. There was a lot of people in this study. And what it found was that individuals in the underweight category were almost three times as likely to have died than individuals with the BMI towards the top of the healthy range. But here's the crazy part. Individuals with a BMI of 40. So now you're obese. Okay. People who are categorized as severely obese had a lower rate of death than people who are underweight.

[Adam Schaefer]

For what though?

[Sal Destefano]

And just in general overall, that. Overall. So overall mortality. So people who are underweight have a higher mortality rate. Slightly higher. Which you wouldn't expect. I wouldn't even expect it necessarily to be the same as people who are obese.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean. Okay, so these are all going to be. Are mostly predominantly advanced age people. Somebody who is carrying themselves, you know, underweight, malnourished, is at a higher risk than somebody who's carrying extra body fat because they have extra sources of fuel and energy. Yeah, I don't think it's that. That crazy. I mean, this is one of those situations where you can look at a study and you can get it kind of twisted on what you're really reading into. That's what I. How I'd read into it is that you've got, you know, let's just say for. Make it easy. A hundred people, 50 of them are. And they're all old, they're all 80 plus and you've got 50 of them are obese and 50 of them are Underweight, I, I'm more afraid for the underweight 80 year olds than I am the overweight.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, 80 year olds. Yeah. I mean, so this is what this points to for me. So when I see this, we're so. People are so aware of the dangers of being obese and rightly so. There are lots of health issues with being in that upper, upper category that I think we don't. Although naturally when you see someone that's underweight, it's like, oh man, you don't look very healthy. I think it can push some people in the wrong direction or at the worst, or at least I should say, they're just not aware of their own mortality risks because they're underweight. So it's like, oh, I'm not, I'm not obese, you know, but it's like, well, you're under, underweight.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, okay, so take that 100 people again too. You know what happens when an equal percentage of each of them get a cancer? The people that are underweight and malnourished are going, they're going to die so much faster than the person that has because cancer is going to eat away at the body. You have so much extra body for them to eat at. So you're going to sustain a little bit longer than that person.

[Sal Destefano]

Also this is all cause mortality, meaning they had heart rate, heart attacks. Right.

[Adam Schaefer]

They're all, it's all in there.

[Sal Destefano]

Right. So what we're looking at is under muscled. That's what we're looking at. What we're looking at are skinny, under muscled people. You're better off, by the way, the data is clear on this. You're better off being overweight and strong. Yeah. Than you are being underweight or lean now there. And weak.

[Adam Schaefer]

There is a, there's a bit of a very positive narrative from that though, which is even if you've, you've never mastered diet or got a hold of your habits with eating, if you just lift weights.

[Sal Destefano]

That's right.

[Adam Schaefer]

You, if you just lift weights two, three times a week and get strong, huge difference.

[Sal Destefano]

Huge difference.

[Adam Schaefer]

So to me it's actually really exciting. Good news is positive. It's that because the diet part is by far the hardest part.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Every client you've ever had that's ever been challenged with, with weight loss or getting in shape is always the adherence to diet. Figuring the macros out to being consistent with protein, all the things. But getting them to show up to my appointment that they paid for was never that difficult. In fact, most clients always showed up I rarely ever had people. No, show me. So if you just made an effort.

[Sal Destefano]

Whether you show up and lift.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. Show up to see your trainer and lift weights two times a week and greatly increase your chances.

[Sal Destefano]

That's it, 100%. But here's the part that it points to for me. We are entering into this dramatic culture shift with the power of GLP drugs. Right. The first generation, second generation, third generation. And what's happening, and there's people reporting this, they're going on them under eating because their appetite's destroyed. Right. It's crushed. That's part of what they do. And then they're coming back with sarcopenia or osteopenia. And I'm going to tell you right now, guys, preserving muscle. If you just lose a bunch of weight and you don't strength train, you may be trading one problem for another. Yep.

[Doug]

So.

[Sal Destefano]

And we in some cases glamorize being underweight because we're so aware of the negatives of being obese. But I got you go on these, if you go on these medications and they crush your appetite, which sometimes they will, especially if you go on a high dose, you gotta lift and you gotta not undereat to the point where you lose lots of muscle because yes, you're losing weight. And here's the other part of it. Your blood work may actually show you're healthier. This is the other thing. If you look at diabetes and heart disease, there's a substantial minority. I say substantial because it's a big percentage representing millions of people who seem to have good blood work, but then suddenly they get diabetes or they get heart disease and it's like, what's going on? I'm not overweight, I'm skinny. What's the big deal? You don't have protective muscle. You don't have protective muscle. And that's part of the problem. So it, I get strong and be active. That's like number one. That's number one.

[Adam Schaefer]

This is why we have so many trainers in the fitness space that are, you know, screaming from the rooftops about GLP1s to a detriment in my opinion. Like, I think that this is, this thing has a tool, is a tool and has value and the right person using it correctly, I think it can be life changing and super beneficial. But like anything else, when abused, when not used properly now becomes dangerous. I think if you use these, I still stand by. My original stance on this was if you go back far enough when we, when we first got introduced this and we were all Kind of talking about it and debating. Even when we knew very little I believed it would be a net positive. I think that, I think it will be. I still believe that, that there's more people that are suffering it now. What makes me worried about it is that if the, the thing that we talk about is that is so scary and dangerous, obesity is less about being obese and it's more about being under muscled, well, then that kind of flies in the face of my, my thought process and I might not be right. It might be, you know, net negative in this situation. Because if you're, if we are mostly under muscled and that's more of an issue than us being obese and, and a majority of these people. Because that's what will happen. A very, very rarely will the people do it correctly and, and do a majority of people will do it incorrectly, which means a greater percentage of them will abuse it, won't hit protein, won't lift weights, and they just lose a bunch of weight. Well, they just lost a bunch of muscle too. And so we'll be in a worse situation than what we were before.

[Sal Destefano]

That's right. Because what you have is you have doctors prescribing them, which I get it, it's a medical intervention, but doctors don't understand exercise. They're not training it. They're not supposed to. Right. They don't understand exercise, they don't understand nutrition, especially when it comes to building muscle. And you know, they take, I think a semester of nutrition.

[Doug]

I, it's just like a one size fits all still.

[Sal Destefano]

I think if you go on a GLP1, you need to work with a trainer, period. If you're somebody that I know.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

And you're like, hey, Sal, I'm going to go on a GLP1. I'm like, only do it if you hire a trainer. Yeah, yeah. Otherwise I don't think it's going to be a good idea for you. Yeah, you know.

[Adam Schaefer]

No, I agree with that. Yeah, no, I totally agree with that.

[Sal Destefano]

Anyway, I got, I'm going to give you guys a little update on my, my daughter's lifting. Remember how I had that debate with her?

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, yeah, yeah. What's the latest over my program? Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

She's like, this is not enough. How am I getting gains on this? Is that you're going to follow.

[Adam Schaefer]

Imagine that. Imagine that.

[Sal Destefano]

Debating. She's getting stronger every week.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, that's.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, dude.

[Adam Schaefer]

Is she like loving it or what?

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, yeah, dude, Turn into a believer. I'm calling her Mini Sal right now because She's. She's getting all into it. I mean, just last night we were at home and I took her phone away from her for a separate reason. So she didn't have her phone with her. And. But she doesn't miss her workout, dude. So she's like, I see her get her headphones, get everything, go back there. She's like, hey, can I at least listen to the music on my phone? I'm like, all right, you know, you can do that. She goes back there and she's lifting. And I'm like, are you tracking how much you're lifting and stuff? Are you getting stronger every time? She's like, yeah. And I could see it, too, on her. I could see that she's building some now.

[Adam Schaefer]

Is there, you know. Interesting. So cool. Interesting that you're getting a front row seat of that while you're simultaneously doing this series that you're doing on YouTube right now. Is there any part of you that is reluctant to her excitement around this?

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, she's gonna go. She has to go through the journey of developing a relationship with it that's proper. Thankfully, you know, I'm there to help guide her. And I gotta be real careful and smart or judicious with how I try to influence her. Because again, with teenage. With your kids in general, like, it's very hard to influence them because they're more influenced by their peers. Luckily, however, many of some of her friends listen to the show, and so they're the ones that are like, oh, your dad is. You know, and so that's helping her be like, oh, maybe I should listen. Okay. But she's seen the evidence now. But, yeah, Jessica and I talk about this and she's like, I think she might be. Is she gonna get obsessed? Is she gonna, like, she probably will. She probably will go too far, you know, get a little obsessive. I remember there was one point where she. This was weeks ago, she got sick, so she couldn't work out. Then she went back and her lifts went down and she was, like, so mad. I can't believe my. You know, she's, like, super pissed off about it. And so I was in there with her, talking her through it, talking about muscle memory, and this is normal and this is what happens. And you don't always go for, you know, progress, but she's going to go through that process, and I'm just going to try and be there for her when she's open to the conversations around it. But this is a journey, you guys know, you get into this you're going to go through the process of, like.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. I mean, that's why I was so curious of how you hand. Because obviously, when, you know the tendency that a parent can do sometimes when they have is to overcorrect. Right. You do that way. So then you go the other extreme with her. And so I feel like you have a level of awareness around that, that you won't do that. So I was just curious to, like, how you're navigating that of, like, about the balance of standing back, letting her have her own journey, but then also knowing, like, keeping a close eye, because it's like, I want to be able to insert myself or be there for that conversation when that does happen. Right. So that's got to be probably.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, it's cool, too, because we'll be hanging out, and then she'll, like. She'll look at me. She's like, but watch this. And she'll flex. My heart just swells like, oh, this is so great, dude. You know, I always had this dream that I'd have, like, these lift sessions, you know, with my kids one day. Yeah. I mean, so we're not there yet, but I'm sure at some point, you know, it'll be fun.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, I can only imagine that'd be like, Max coming out and wanting to shoot the ball around with me. I feel like that's, like. I still wait, and you try to.

[Sal Destefano]

Hold in the excitement.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

You don't want to overdo it.

[Adam Schaefer]

Totally. I could totally see how it's rad.

[Doug]

When it finally happened.

[Sal Destefano]

It's so fun.

[Doug]

Yeah, we. I just had ever. He just started his lacrosse this weekend, and so it's his first real, like, practice and just, like, learning the skill of it and everything. And I guess the one thing that stood out to me was just how inviting and friendly that community is, because I think it's. Because it's, like, not a thing here, really.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, so they're trying to make it popular.

[Doug]

Yeah. Like, it's like an east coast kind of sport, and such a dope sport. It wasn't around, like, I totally would have got into it when I was growing up, but it's just. It's so what he needs. Like, he. He puts on. He's like. He has all the pads and everything, and. And he's. He puts his helmet on. He's like, dad, I feel like a weapon. It's like, oh, no.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, no.

[Doug]

He's so my kid. And I see him out there, and it was great. Was the coaches like, it wasn't just like, you know, I thought, you know, they'll probably work on their handling, stick handling, and, like, you know, passing and, you know, some shots on goal, whatever. But they did that. But they're, like, teaching them defense, and they're bodying up against each other, and they're like.

[Adam Schaefer]

Already.

[Doug]

The physicality of it was like, oh, it's so great. Because it's hard to find that at this age range as well, and, like, for it to be, you know, something that he's, like, involved in. So I was, like, stoked just watching him, like, getting exhausted, you know, and just, like, physically, you know, smashing into everybody else.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's so cool, because at his age now, most places have converted over to flag football, right?

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

So, like, contact football at his age is not even.

[Doug]

It's not really a thing. Yeah, yeah. A lot of the. And I looked into it, like, Pop Warner and all that, and it's just. Yeah. It kind of died off in our area. I really didn't want to. I didn't get to do it. Like, I. I played football when I was a freshman. That's my first introduction. And so I was playing soccer up till then. Like. Like getting red cards and yellow cards.

[Sal Destefano]

I just want to hit someone.

[Doug]

Just. Yeah, it was just this weird drive. Like, you just. I don't know, like, it's a. It's a violent tendency, you know?

[Adam Schaefer]

I can't wait. I can't wait to hear how, you know, like, how he does it, if he's into it, like, because I think it's a cool sport.

[Doug]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It looked like he really enjoyed it.

[Sal Destefano]

Aren't the roots of lacrosse Native American? Wasn't it a Native American game?

[Doug]

Yeah, I believe so.

[Sal Destefano]

Is that right? I believe so, yeah. If I'm not mistaken, it was like, a Native American.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, it's like football meets hockey. I mean, it's super cool like that. I mean, I think that's.

[Sal Destefano]

I think that's harder than it looks, too, because my daughter played, of course, and she's like, here, try to run with it. I'm like, drop it.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

[Doug]

Cradle in it.

[Sal Destefano]

It's a fast game, too. It is. I mean, it's. It's. It's pretty exciting to watch, so I.

[Adam Schaefer]

Wish we had some content on it. We didn't have that in our. In our. Our neck of the woods.

[Sal Destefano]

No. And it's hard to find other schools that play. Yeah. North North American indigenous peoples. As early as 17. Was that 1100 A.D. known as what Stickball.

[Doug]

Yeah. And didn't they like Hialai was like from Mayans, right?

[Sal Destefano]

I don't know.

[Doug]

Something like that. Like, I know it's like, it's down in South America. It's a big sport, but that's like where they throw the ball. Like, like a crazy, like I don't know if it's like 150 something miles an hour.

[Sal Destefano]

What's that sport where they have that. It's like, it looks like a long scoop and you throw and they whip a ball. It's like the fast highlight. That's high lie. Yeah, yeah. How fast is that the ball goes?

[Adam Schaefer]

Yes.

[Doug]

I mean, I think it's like.

[Sal Destefano]

Is that what you're talking about?

[Doug]

Yeah, it's like crazy fast.

[Adam Schaefer]

Like hundreds of miles. It's more than 100 miles.

[Doug]

It goes fast, maybe faster.

[Sal Destefano]

I think it's the fastest ball sport. Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, that might be right.

[Sal Destefano]

It is. Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, they definitely throw faster than a pitcher throws a ball. So it's like.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, look at us.

[Adam Schaefer]

150 up to 190.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, see?

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

190 miles an hour.

[Doug]

Can you imagine getting hit with that?

[Sal Destefano]

No, that would kill you.

[Adam Schaefer]

Isn't. Is the ball too kind of like a lacrosse ball? Is that what they.

[Doug]

It looks like it. I don't know, with their whipping, like somewhat hard.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's an Olympic sport, isn't it?

[Sal Destefano]

I don't know. It feels like a, like a wealthy sport. I always feel like it's like a rich.

[Doug]

Yeah, it's like really up there with like polo.

[Adam Schaefer]

Really? It doesn't look like it to me.

[Doug]

Okay, well, tell me, where is it popular?

[Adam Schaefer]

In Brazil, but I mean, it's not like maybe Spain, like polo.

[Sal Destefano]

Polo.

[Adam Schaefer]

Is that. I mean, yeah, it's a club and horses and like. Okay, that totally does to me. You know what I'm saying? But. Or like, you know, fencing, you know, saying that's up there, but that I wouldn't have thought of that as like.

[Sal Destefano]

I think it's a wealthy sport. I think it's considered a sport that upper class whatever originated in Spain. How'd you know?

[Justin Andrews]

Doug, you know, it's a Basque region.

[Adam Schaefer]

So he knows things.

[Sal Destefano]

He's got the Google. I have the Googles here. I found a study that is getting popular on social media. So I can't wait to talk about it because there was a study in 1993 or four that came out about this. And of course, when I was a kid, if I saw anything that looked like it would build muscle, I'd Try it. Yeah. So what this. And this is. There's a new. There was a newer study, and so people are circulating. So taking 5 milligrams of melatonin before a workout will dramatically boost growth hormone production in the workout. Something like 150% higher. Okay.

[Doug]

Really?

[Sal Destefano]

Yes, because melatonin. Melatonin down regulates something.

[Adam Schaefer]

Is the body fighting against it?

[Sal Destefano]

No, there's something that. I can't remember what it was, but it lowers something that controls growth hormone. So when you work out, growth hormone spikes anyway. When you take melatonin, you get this much larger spike of growth hormone. So now as a kid, you know, in the 90s and anything that said hormone on it, because I'm like, ooh, it's going to make me jacked. It sucks. If you want to be sleepy.

[Adam Schaefer]

And I was going to say it.

[Sal Destefano]

Seems like that would be awful. What's crazy, too, in the study, they're like, it didn't affect performance. Baloney. I've tried this so many times, right? You take melatonin before you work out. Sucks. It made me so.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, it's the opposite of what we do, right? Like, you take caffeine to get jacked. Like, take some melatonin. That sounds like a terrible idea.

[Sal Destefano]

I don't know who could be stimulated.

[Doug]

It's like, trust me, I've tried the.

[Adam Schaefer]

Same People smoke weed before they lift weights.

[Sal Destefano]

No, it's worse than that, dude. Trust me. It's.

[Doug]

I've tried it for stretching.

[Sal Destefano]

I've tried it so many. I was stubborn about it at one point. So my growth hormone is going to make me huge. Sucks, dude.

[Adam Schaefer]

So what's the new study? Is there a new study?

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, the study came out, showed it raised growth hormone like 150.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, okay. So this is. You remember this back in the 90s?

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, so I saw this.

[Adam Schaefer]

So it's coming out. It's making its way.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, I saw people sharing it, like, oh my God, this is crazy. And I remember I'm like looking at.

[Doug]

Like, yeah, yeah, go apply it.

[Sal Destefano]

Try it, bro. See what you feel like.

[Adam Schaefer]

Take your melatonin pre workout and gummy bears afterwards and let me know how it works out.

[Doug]

Go right to bed.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, it totally sucks.

[Adam Schaefer]

Did you guys see? I saw some. Since you're talking about funny stuff. This. Okay, there's. I don't know if you saw this. We obviously we all kind of follow different stuff. This is in the car world. There has been a guy for four years now that has been documented driving an F1 car on regular highways. Yeah, it's like an Instagram phenomenon too that people have. Somebody who owns an F1 car actually has one of these, is driving on main roads and has been for like four years pulled over. Four years. He's gotten away for four years.

[Sal Destefano]

Catching him.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh yeah. And so they, you know, but. And it's been this kind of phenomenon that everyone catch everyone. She catches it post on Instagram and then sharing it. And so just recently he's been arrested and he was, he was. They finally caught up with him and. And I think they had like a big standoff where like a, you know, helicopter and like they cornered it. It was a big deal. Oh, there you go. Doug's pulling it over now. Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Phantom ferrari driver. Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

51 year old guy does it.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. Wow. Dude, have you guys ever.

[Adam Schaefer]

Too bad he got caught. Could you imagine like on the freeway on 101 over here and I was like an car pulls up right next to you.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. That's so dangerous and expensive. Aren't they like $10 million?

[Adam Schaefer]

They are really expensive. What, that much? Yeah. I don't know about 10 million, but they're. They.

[Sal Destefano]

Well, look up how much.

[Adam Schaefer]

No, he's probably right. 10 million is probably.

[Sal Destefano]

I think they're like. I know they're millions.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh yeah.

[Doug]

Oh yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh yeah. No, you're right. 10 million.

[Sal Destefano]

Maybe more.

[Adam Schaefer]

20 to 30. Actually.

[Sal Destefano]

The engineering that goes into those cars is like a fighter.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. Put up average price of an F1.

[Doug]

Yeah. I mean they look like 12 to 20 million.

[Sal Destefano]

12 to 20 million.

[Adam Schaefer]

What's even crazy. What's crazy is they've always got two of those on hand and they wreck them all the time. And so you're like repair. I mean, so you want to talk expensive sport.

[Doug]

Oh yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

God, that's the.

[Sal Destefano]

Have you guys ever.

[Adam Schaefer]

You know what, you know how speaking since we're talking about F1, like how unique that is too. There is. There is. Name another sport where there's only 20 total athletes in the world.

[Doug]

Oh yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's the only one. There is only 20F1.

[Sal Destefano]

How about the one where they jump with the squirrels? Oh yeah. That's probably.

[Doug]

They die.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. There's a lot of them, but they die. Those numbers. That's the highest. The highest desert. But There is only 20 F1 car.

[Sal Destefano]

Racers in the world. You know how skilled you have to be.

[Adam Schaefer]

You have to be the most skilled to even get there. Like you can't, you can't just go, oh, I want to drive F1 cars. You have to work your Way. All the way up. All the cars, all the different classes. Yeah, the classes are the classes.

[Sal Destefano]

Like, is it like F10, F9? Is that what the F1 is?

[Adam Schaefer]

No, it's different names. Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, it's different. It's different, but you have to work your way all the way up before you're even a possibility to make that. So it's literally. There's not a lot of sports to say if you're actually just playing in it. You're 20, you're top 20 in the world.

[Sal Destefano]

Have you guys ever been in a situation, either personally or seen it? You don't have to give yourself, you know, write yourself out where you saw someone literally outrun a highway patrol or police officer. You ever seen that?

[Adam Schaefer]

You know, it's hard to say is if I've seen it for real or I just watched so many clips of somebody.

[Sal Destefano]

I saw, I saw a guy in a Hayabusa.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, I think I seen.

[Sal Destefano]

And I saw the lights turn on and he was gone. Yeah, the car, the, the highway patrol turned his lights on. That guy was gone. Yeah, gone.

[Doug]

Those street bikes is going to be the, the easiest to elude.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, I bet you there's a, a pretty solid percentage. I bet if people run on those bikes, I bet a higher, higher percentage they probably want to admit and talk. Well, you know, like the bank robbing thing is like an undercover thing.

[Doug]

I always think about, like the bank.

[Adam Schaefer]

Robbing thing is something that you don't.

[Doug]

Want to ever put.

[Adam Schaefer]

You act. They act like it's so rare, but it's like, oh, percent of them get away with it. So they don't want to.

[Sal Destefano]

Is that the stat?

[Adam Schaefer]

Yes.

[Sal Destefano]

50 of bank robbers get away.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, but here, there's caveat to that. Listen, the average dollar amount is like chump change because they only keep so much in the register. So that's including. Everybody just does a quick stick up, give me what's in the cash, and then. And they run out. So that guy gets away, but he.

[Doug]

Gets away with the vault.

[Adam Schaefer]

He gets away with five grand. You know, it's something like, it's. It's crazy when you hear like what some of these bank robbers get away with. Like, you risked that for that? Like, that's crazy.

[Sal Destefano]

My half, my family works in banks and a couple of them have been in a bank that's gotten robbed.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's how frequent it is.

[Sal Destefano]

But it's never like the movies, like where they come in with the mask. No, it's never like, it's always like someone comes in, they hand them a letter.

[Doug]

It's really my commute twice. Like, there's been people at Rob bank here in San Jose and then drove up through to get to Santa Cruz and they've like taken all the side roads and they're like closing it off. This happened twice. I was like sitting on the side of the road, like, waiting.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, it happens. Caught them all the time. It happens a lot. And they, they just don'. Report them and they're not going to. They don't want people to know that 50 times they're getting away with it or else more people would do it.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. So I gotta, I gotta mention one of our partners again, because oftentimes we get people on the show who we're talking to who are on the borderline of like, too much stress and so their workouts aren't working. We're talking about them, about their sleep. We're trying to find a way to get them to apply the right amount of stress to induce adaptation, but not mitigate their stress. Right. And so oftentimes I'll recommend. Well, not often. Sometimes I'll recommend. Recommend a supplement that'll help with that. Ashwagandha is always at the top of the list. It's the most supported by the data. It does, I mean, literally does help your body adapt to stress. If you were to. If your total stress was at 100, using ashwagandha with the same amount of stress would lower its impact on your body. I'm going to use arbitrary numbers, but down to like 85 or something like that, it actually does make a big difference. It's why when they do studies on Ashwagandha, athletes will gain strength and muscle on them. Not necessarily because it's like this muscle builder, but rather their body can adapt better to the stress. And Organifi green juice has an efficacious dose of Ashwagandha. Yeah. Plus all the other micronutrients. And I don't know why I don't think of recommending that specifics. It's green juice. I forget it's got Ashwagandha in it. Yeah. But it's one of the best supplements of all of our partners. If you're like, like one of those people that's like, man, I keep feeling like I'm over training, I'm burnt out. Like, what can I take that'll help? The green juice.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, remember I told you guys just the other day, the last time we talked about organifi, I brought up the green juice because I took it as, you know, trying to be preventative before getting sick and I just forgot how good it feels to do that. Like I want to get in the habit of like making that like the first thing I drink in the morning. I've made a habit of drinking caffeine, coffee or Celsius or whatever. I like to see the difference if I make an effort to do that and see if I notice the benefits because I noticed it when I drank that day. I was like, oh my God, that.

[Sal Destefano]

Feels so much better. Yep, I'm implementing it again in my routine too. Probiotics have documented data backed benefits like they improve your gut health. Obviously they reduce inflammation. There's also some fat loss effects, helps your skin and mood. You probably know this already, so you're probably wondering which probiotic should I go with? With Seed, it's the world's best probiotic. Go to seed.com mindpump use the code 25mindpump get 25% off. Back to the show.

[Justin Andrews]

First question is from RLE 1987. When limited for time in the gym, should I prioritize more sets, less rest per exercise or fewer sets, more rest to maximize muscle growth?

[Sal Destefano]

You know, it depends on the person I'm talking to often, you know, oftentimes. So this is a general answer because it really does depend on the person, but oftentimes focus on the big lifts and leave out the other ones is what I would say. Generally speaking. Now that being said, none of the things that you asked are bad. Sometimes speeding up the workout is great. Sometimes doing just a lot of sets of one exercise is great because you don't have to switch movements. Other times you do less of the total exercises so you can maintain the rest periods. It really depends on the individual. But generally speaking, if you're the kind of person that's super, super, super consistent and pushing it all the time, then just focusing on the core lifts and cutting out the others probably.

[Adam Schaefer]

I'm glad you went this way because I totally agree. And the way I was going to word it was they're all tools and ideally try and use all of them. Now what we don't know is the rest of the story meaning. So let's say the same person asks this exact same question and depending on the context, I. E. What are, what are they currently doing in their life that may look different? Like for example, the under slept, you know, doesn't hit their like why do.

[Sal Destefano]

You have less time?

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, exactly. Right. So the underslept, overworked, high stress person. I'D say, oh, well, let's just do less exercises and focus on a couple of the big lifts and get out. Like that's all you need to do. That would be more appropriate. But let's just say it's just a random. This is a random day because. But you're. Your stress level is good, your sleep is good, you eat well. Hey, like sometimes there's a huge benefit in shortening the rest periods and doing a kind of faster paced workout. In fact, this is how I've always communicated this on the podcast. I've never intentionally did these like circuit type training, but I, I've definitely circuit trained. And when I do it is like when I'm limited on time, when I have those random days that, oh man, I gotta go to this appointment. Yeah. And so I only got a half hour to work today. Oh, you know what I'm gonna do today? Today I'm gonna, I'm gonna. No rest periods. I'm just gonna keep going through my workout out and. Because that's novel and I don't do it all the time. What a great idea. So it really depends on the context to give precise. But the truth is both are valuable.

[Sal Destefano]

Yep.

[Justin Andrews]

Next question is from Becca Fit. What's your advice for overcoming injuries? The mental and physical side. I recently tore my Achilles and had a great recovery. But the mental side was harder than the physical.

[Sal Destefano]

The mental side's always hard.

[Adam Schaefer]

You guys remember this when I shared this?

[Sal Destefano]

Yes.

[Adam Schaefer]

Remember how hard it was? Remember I told you that would.

[Sal Destefano]

It's like afraid to let it, like stress it or push it.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. And. And I didn't realize how difficult. This is actually what got me back into listening to music again. Also got me back into listening to audiobooks. What I had to do personally. So this may or may not work for you, but I definitely. And it was an Achilles tear that. That actually threw me for a loop like this. I had to find something else in my life that I could kind of focus on that I knew that I loved. I love reading audiobooks. I love music. To occupy that space and to make the books made me feel like I was progressing and growing and moving forward even though my body physically couldn't do it. The music was something that was a passion that I love to do that was entertain me and kept me in good spirits. And so I found attaching myself to two things like that that didn't require my body to like, I didn't need a healthy body to do either one of those things and made me feel good. I I. And I didn't realize that this was going to hit me the way it did, but it made. It took a toll on. Remember how powerful it was to find.

[Doug]

Yeah. Like, working on your relationships, like, work on other things going on in your life that you can kind of redirect your focus because. Yeah. I mean, it's. You'll feel like you're at least, like, being productive. I know that's the hardest part, is when you get down for the count, and it's like this injury is really limiting you from, like, feeling that you're moving forward, when, in fact, there's so many. I mean, there's so many aspects of. Of progress, you know, spiritually, physically, mentally, that you can address. I think that it'll open up a space for us. That's great advice.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. So a lot. A lot of people don't realize this until you go through it. It's like you have.

[Adam Schaefer]

I didn't. I didn't know until it hit me.

[Sal Destefano]

You have a major injury, and you. You. You heal, and you have a great recovery. So for all intents and purposes, like, wow, my knee is back to normal, or my Achilles is fully healed. But what we don't take into consideration is the. The fear, the mental trauma that it left. And I use the word trauma. People like, oh, it's not that. Yeah, it is. I mean, you blow out a joint, especially doing an exercise, and it's unexpected or doing something that you love doing, and it's unexpected. There's a memory there of what that was like. And so then you get fully healed, and then there's a fear there. And I've heard this so many times from clients, like, I'm scared to push it. I'm scared to go fast again. I don't know what's wrong with me. And that mental side is just as connected to the injury as the physical side is. So when you look at the data on overcoming these kinds of fears, or any fear in general, one of the most effective strategies is known as exposure therapy. And you'll see this with people like scared of spiders or scared of balloons or whatever. So this is what it looks like for an injury. So you tore your Achilles. Full recovery. For all intents and purposes, everything's back to normal. You slowly expose yourself to movements and exercises that challenge your Achilles. You expose yourself mentally to these movements and slowly rebuild confidence in the fact that you can go back and do what you did before, but it's frequent exposure. Okay. Because if you don't do that and you're expecting to just jump back in. That fear will hold you back. That fear will hold you back from really pushing yourself.

[Adam Schaefer]

Or worse.

[Sal Destefano]

The fear changes recruitment patterns actually makes an injury more likely. So it's very slow. So you tore your Achilles. Okay. Now it's fully recovered. You start with calf raises, then you start with heavier calf raises, then you start with jumping, then you start with light running or whatever. Right. To slowly move yourself towards the point where you can then exert yourself fully. But you have to rebuild that confidence. And again, the process is known as exposure therapy. And it does work and it does take time.

[Adam Schaefer]

There. There are people afraid of balloons.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, that's a real fear.

[Doug]

That's a real fear attached to clowns.

[Sal Destefano]

No, it's like there are people that. You'll put them terrified of balloons because they, for whatever reason, when they were a kid, it exploded in their face and they're just scared of.

[Doug]

I had a client that was allergic because of the latex, so she got crazy over that.

[Adam Schaefer]

But that's funny.

[Justin Andrews]

Next question is from TheMathew Holcomb. What's the best way to get back into working out after a surgery that put you down for two plus months?

[Sal Destefano]

Slowly.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yes. Kind of similar to the last one.

[Sal Destefano]

Very similar. Yeah. Slowly, you slowly ease yourself back into the routine. For the physical purpose is to rebuild muscle and stability and strength and then for the mental reason, to rebuild confidence. So it's just a slow process. There is no such thing as too slow. So take your time.

[Doug]

Technique.

[Sal Destefano]

That's it. Slowly working, completely slowly. Challenge yourself, and before you know it, you'll be totally fine. But the key word here is slowly. It's safe. And if you have muscle memory because you used to work out, muscle will come back very quickly.

[Adam Schaefer]

You know, the, the challenge is the, the same psychologically, but the opposite of what the last person that we're talking to is like. And I remember this is. This was when I had my knee injury. I was so, so ambitious and I was so, like, as soon as I felt better, I was like, each workout I was trying to progress, you know, and I was jump boxes by like two months later. My. And then I re injured myself. And it was so stupid because I was like, I, I got competitive with like how fast I was trying to come back. And that was such a terrible strategy. The, the better strategy, what you're saying. You can't go too slow. You know, if you are progressing. Yeah. If you're being consistent and you're slowly progressing, you're perfect. Like, this is the the like it trainers, this is common even some people with athletic backgrounds where they have the opposite problem, where they, they are healed and now they think they're going to go right back to where they were where they left off. And it's like, that's a recipe for an injury again.

[Justin Andrews]

Next question is from Real Life Wellness with Jess. How can I grow an online nutrition and fitness business if I hate doing social media?

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. You know what's funny is people forget, especially with fitness. Okay. You could build an incredible nutrition and fitness business, even online world. Yeah. Without ever being on social media.

[Doug]

Yeah, you can.

[Adam Schaefer]

I actually think this is going to.

[Sal Destefano]

Make a comeback doing it without social media.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, no, yeah, yeah, I agree. Yeah. I think that we've moved so much in this direction that it really opens the opportunity for the person that wants to do this old school, just go to your local community. So I, I suggested this. So we had, we have a new trainer who was coming on board with us, and she was talking about her hometown. She has a one. One street, one light, you know, hometown, like, you know, a couple thousand people in the whole town. And she was just like, you know, how do you build a fitness business there? And I'm like, you know, what I would do is I would start a walking group at 7am every Monday, whatever. Pick your day that you can do it it and do it for free. And walk downtown where there's only one street, where every car that goes through that, they got to go through there, that everybody in town and they start seeing this group. And maybe it starts with four or five ladies, and when you first get it going and then it's 10 and then it's 20, and then 30 people are walking with you. You get a movement going on, Right. And it's a free service, so it's easy to convince people to do it. And you're helping, you're doing a good thing. And it'll just create this buzz in the town. And then I'm gonna go work with the, the, you know, the hobby shop, the local hobby shop and the local grocery store and, you know, and start networking with your community and doing things that, I mean, and you could become the fitness guru of the town. And that's just. If you have a small town, you have a big town, you have lots of opportunity and lots of these things you can do. But I do think that there is more of an opportunity today than there was 20 years ago, because that was the only way you built a business back in the days. And now how Instagram and YouTube and Facebook is so is, is the way everyone tries now. It's like, dude, go.

[Doug]

It's funny you actually say that because like Gary V was asked like a similar kind of a question and it was mainly like he was, he was talking about the need for people with human connection again. And that what he like thought might actually be an opportunity was to create like a, just a walking business. Like, like I will walk with you for this amount of time. Like they'd pay for them just to like chat with somebody and walk through the city and whatever. And he's like. And it's already happening and it's just, it's interesting because like, like you can see how disconnected we've been and how, how you know, human connection. People are craving that right now. And so to, to add a bit of a fitness element to that I would feel would be an easy combo.

[Sal Destefano]

Look, if you, it's, it's created. Social media can be a powerful tool. So get me wrong, but it's created the illusion that that's the only way you could build your business or that's the best way to build your business even is a bit of an illusion. If you took two trainers, brand new that needed to build their business and one of them hit the pavement, one of them went outside and talked to people and the other one only stayed online. I would bet all my money that the one who hit the pavement will build their business faster. Much faster. Now that's not to say you shouldn't do all of it because if you're smart you want to use all of it, but you'll build a faster. I mean when we started Mind Pump, I remember Adam would get on me about starting a social media something because I had nothing. Yeah. In fact my business had a website that didn't even work and I built a six figure personal training business. Just being in my community, that's all I did. I would just go out and talk to people and do body fat test booths and you know, do stuff like that. And it was, it works and it works faster. In fact, when I talk to trainers now, I say start there. When you start building something there, then do the online stuff to support what you've already built. I mean it's actually a better strategy.

[Adam Schaefer]

Way better strategy is to go hit the pavement and document that process.

[Sal Destefano]

Y.

[Adam Schaefer]

But you don't have to. You're trying to. If you're trying to do this with no social media, you don't have to. You absolutely can go build this without social media. But the easy way to do both is focus on the pavement, document some of that process and when you meet people and you in real life and train that one. The only one client that you have, the things that you post about on social media is related to helping that one client and then it becomes two clients that you're helping. So the two things that you're posting about are to help those two clients. And so your content online is really to serve your handful of people that you met in real life and then you start attracting people virtually. That's the way I would build if I was building this thing all over again.

[Sal Destefano]

Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. We'll see you. It's at mindpump Media thank you for.

[Justin Andrews]

Listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body dramatically, improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB super [e-mail] the RGB Super Bundle includes Maps, Anabolic Maps, Performance and Maps Aesthetic nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs with detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos. The RV the RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee and you can get it now. Plus other valuable free [e-mail] if you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review on itunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends, friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is Mind Pump.