2694: Why Focusing on Performance Transforms Your Body

Summary

Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth

Episode 2694: Why Focusing on Performance Transforms Your Body
September 27, 2025
Hosts: Sal Di Stefano, Adam Schafer, Justin Andrews, Producer Doug Egge

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Episode Overview

In this episode, the Mind Pump team zeroes in on the transformative power of focusing on performance rather than aesthetics in fitness. Drawing from decades of coaching experience and interacting with live callers, Sal, Adam, and Justin unpack why tracking strength, mobility, and endurance—not just the mirror or scale—results in better long-term health, more sustainable fat loss, and ultimately, a physique that's as functional as it is appealing. They also tackle related cultural issues, like body image, the psychological pitfalls of fitness tracking, and the influence of social media.

Much of the episode involves in-depth discussion, practical advice, and live Q&A with listeners struggling with specific health or mindset challenges. The hosts emphasize a balanced, holistic approach to performance and health, debunking pervasive industry myths along the way.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Aesthetics vs. Performance: Rethinking Fitness Goals

(03:12–10:29)

• Sal: Most people begin working out for “aesthetic reasons” (03:12), but focusing on how you look—via mirrors, scales, or even body fat percentage—can often be misleading and discouraging.
• Adam & Justin: Performance tracking (strength, stamina, mobility) is not only more objective but actually leads to the changes people want: “Better performance almost always leads to a better look.” (07:35, Sal)
• Quote:
  “Chasing a look doesn’t lead to… athletic performance… Better performance almost always leads… to a better look.”
  — Sal (07:16)

2. The Pitfalls of Chasing One-Dimensional Goals

(10:29–13:42)

• The team warns against becoming fixated on narrow performance metrics (like PRs only) or endlessly chasing “the look.”
• Adam: The rise of “PR chasing” brought its own risks, especially when people ignored pain or dysfunction for the sake of numbers.

3. True Performance is Holistic

(13:42–16:19)

• “Performance” isn’t just about strength:
  • It’s agility, mobility, moving in all planes, deceleration, joint stability, power, and endurance.
• Quote:
  “Performance encompasses a whole lot more than just PR.”
  — Adam (13:35)

4. Performance as the "North Star" for Health & Aesthetics

(16:01–18:38)

• Focusing on getting stronger, more mobile, or resilient naturally leads you to make better food choices and avoid under-eating or damaging cycles.
• Sal: “If you’re looking at performance holistically and chasing that, the diet starts to follow.” (16:19)
• Adam: “If that's your North Star… naturally nutrition kind of has to come up with that.” (16:03)

5. Redefining Aesthetics: The Beauty of Movement

(17:36–21:30)

• The hosts call for a cultural shift: aesthetics should be about movement quality and holistic balance, not just how lean or muscular you appear.
• Justin:
  “There's a beautiful way to move, too… Your body looks better when you have ability to move in a way that exemplifies, like, very seamless and flowing and natural movement.” (17:48)

6. The Limits of Social Media and Body Image

(28:15–41:12, revisited in 94:06–95:12 with Nora)

• The modern, “constant news cycle” and filtered fitness portrayals deeply distort perceptions of what’s normal or healthy.

• Host advice:

  • Unplug from negative feeds.
  • Schedule intentional social media usage.
  • Train your brain to focus on everyday positives.

• Sal:
  “Our minds are not… able to comprehend what's happening everywhere, all the time. It's just too much… Get in nature, your friends, your family, your neighborhood.” (29:50–30:44)

7. Caller Q&A Highlights

a. [Bill from Texas, 57:03–68:41]

Older adult with chronic lung disease, sarcopenia, and past strokes seeking exercise adaptations.

• Approach: Extremely individualized, anaerobic, rest-heavy strength training—one heavy rep, rest 20-30 seconds, repeat (62:49).
• Sal:
  “You would pick a weight… do one arm or one leg at a time. If the set calls for eight repetitions, grab a heavier weight but do one rep, place the weight down, wait until you catch your breath, then do it again...”
• Diet: Prioritize protein (1g/lb), fiber, well-cooked vegetables, include some carbs (not strict keto).

b. [Ben from Texas, 70:47–79:57]

Young man struggling with body image, wedding pressure, and info overload.

• Advice:
  • Focus on two full-body strength sessions per week, keep walking, do not scale obsess or “go hard” (no 75 Hard).
  • Take eyes off body; prioritize relationships, joy, and broader life.
• Sal:
  “Fitness and good health should not feel stressful… If it is, it's not healthy—this is no longer a healthy thing.” (72:51)
• Adam:
  “Eat your protein first…stick to whole foods… It’ll take care of the rest.” (75:39)

c. [Daniel from Iowa, 81:01–85:56]

Fit individual suddenly experiencing severe post-workout cramps.

• Action: See a neurologist; ensure no underlying kidney, liver, or neurological issue.
• Typical interventions (hydration, sodium, magnesium) already tried without relief.

d. [Nora from Minnesota, 87:02–94:06]

Fit woman, 45, perimenopausal, worried about shifting midsection fat and social media messaging.

• Reality: Hormone changes affect fat distribution, but hormone therapy and especially strength training can “beat the odds.”
• Best strategy: Enter a modest calorie surplus, chase strength, build muscle—the ultimate buffer against aging-induced fat changes.
• Justin:
  “Building muscle is like the magic formula for almost everything, but you gotta feed it.” (91:32)
• Adam: Encourages joining the new “Muscle Mommy Movement” community for women.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On why chasing the look fails:
  “We take the side effect and make that the main effect… and we start to distort the hell out of it.” — Sal (20:55)
• True transformation recipe:
  “Just get healthy and fit and you’ll look healthy and fit.” — Sal (22:21)
• On the temptation of tracking:
  “Get rid of the scale, get rid of the mirror, track your performance.” — Adam (04:55)
• The danger of fitness obsession:
  “It turns into a hardcore strict resist and then it goes to binge—nothing good comes out of that.” — Adam (80:36)

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Key Segment Timestamps

• Main Discussion: Performance vs. Aesthetics — 03:12–28:06
  • Performance as a holistic goal: 13:42–16:19
  • How performance shapes nutrition: 16:01–18:38
• Social Media & Mental Health PSA — 28:15–41:12
• Caller: Bill (Pulmonary fibrosis, sarcopenia) — 57:03–68:41
• Caller: Ben (Body image, pre-wedding stress) — 70:47–79:57
• Caller: Daniel (Severe cramping) — 81:01–85:56
• Caller: Nora (Perimenopause, body image) — 87:02–94:06
• Closing remarks on women, muscle, and bulking — 94:06–95:12

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Tone & Takeaways

• Tone: Supportive, direct, “tough love,” myth-busting, sometimes irreverent but always empathetic.
• Takeaways:
  • Chasing a balanced, multidisciplinary version of performance is the surest path to both health and aesthetics.
  • The more you obsess over body image or scale, the less likely you are to achieve long-term results: let performance guide your journey.
  • Social media, constant news, and externally imposed fitness standards are major sources of distress—intentionally disengage.
  • Sustainable nutrition is about fueling health and performance—not restriction or trends.
  • Community and accountability help anchor healthy behaviors and mindset resets in turbulent times.

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Resources Mentioned

• MAPS Performance Program (for well-rounded, indefinite training)
• Muscle Mommy Movement (community for women in strength)
• [Eight Sleep, Caldera Lab sponsors]
• Strength training templates, reverse dieting, hormone therapy resources

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For listeners seeking clarity, health, and lasting transformation, this episode offers a much-needed antidote to modern fitness anxiety—with actionable steps, real-life stories, and an invitation to shift your focus from the mirror to what your body can DO.

Transcript

[Sal DeStefano]

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[Podcast Announcer]

You want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go.

[Sal DeStefano]

Mind Pump Mind Pump with your hosts.

[Podcast Announcer]

Sal DeStefano, Adam Schafer and Justin Andrews.

[Sal DeStefano]

You just found the most downloaded fitness, health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pumper. In today's episode, we talked to live callers. We coached them on air in this podcast. But that was after the intro. Today's intro is 53 minutes long. In the intro we talk about fitness and fat loss and muscle gain, family life, health. It's a great time. By the way, if you want to be on an episode like this one and you want to call in, send us your question. Send it to [e-mail] now. This episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is eight Sleep, the most advanced sleep system you'll find anywhere. It's AI technology that warms and cools your bed and adjusts on the fly to improve your sleep. Your individual sleep. It's amazing. It's groundbreaking. Go check them out. Get yourself $350 off. Go to 8sleep.com mindpump use the code mindpump for that massive discount. This episode is also brought to you by Caldera Lab, skin care products that improve the health and appearance of your skin. Studies show over 91% of participants saw dramatic improvements. Go check them out. Go to calderalab.com mindpump that's C-A-L--E-R-A-L-A-B.com mindpump the code is mindpump20 for 20% off. Also, we have a sale right now. Flash sale. You Ready? Maps performance, 50% off. This is the one maps program you can run indefinitely. It'll build your entire body holistically. Speed, power, agility, mobility, strength, muscle, fat loss, symmetry, balance. It's in this program. 50% off right now. Go to mapsperformance.com, use the code athlete50 for the discount. All right, real quick.

[Justin Andrews]

If you love us like we love you, why not show it by rocking one of our shirts, hats, mugs, or training gear [e-mail] I'm talking right now. Hit pause, head on over to my pumpstore.com. that's it.

[Adam Schafer]

Enjoy the rest of the show.

[Sal DeStefano]

When people start a fitness journey, the majority of them, the vast majority of them are doing it for aesthetic reasons. They want to look different. This is not new news. I don't think I'm shocking everybody. So it makes sense then to track that, Right. You want to look better. Well, then pay attention to how you look through your workout. Or does it? There may be better ways to track how you're performing or how are you doing or how you're progressing that will lead to better results with how you look. Let's talk about that. So I'm going to ask you guys a question. I know the answer, but I'll pose it as a question. What is. What is going to accomplish better overall results? All results for somebody. All the results somebody could want from a fitness journey. Okay. Tracking their appearance or tracking their performance.

[Adam Schafer]

Would you include body fat tracking in that? Where would you categorize that? Because it's definitely not. That's not a performance thing.

[Sal DeStefano]

No.

[Adam Schafer]

And it's arguably an aesthetic thing. But it's not the mirror. It's not the scale. It's a little more.

[Sal DeStefano]

I think it's objective. It's more. That's more towards the looks than it is towards the performance. It is, it is, yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

So the reason why I bring it.

[Sal DeStefano]

Up, and I'm making it a black and white, so. So, you know, if you have to pick one, let's do. Let's do that. Right?

[Justin Andrews]

Strength, performance. Yeah. All day.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, the reason why I threw that in there is because obviously I know that's the direction you're Going, yeah, but I actually still think it is the. I still think it's the better answer regardless. Even the body fat percentage, which I think is a really good objective number that coaches and trainers use, and people go like, okay, we're, we're building more muscle.

[Sal DeStefano]

I agree.

[Adam Schafer]

But I still think the. For that. And that's why I brought it up, obviously. I knew if we talk performance in the mirror, anybody who's listened to this podcast longer than two weeks has heard us communicate that. I mean, that most of our live callers call in and we know that one of the things they struggle with is they're always looking at the mirror or the scale and it's so deceiving and it sends them down the wrong path. And so one of the number one pieces of advice I think that we give consistently is get rid of the scale, get rid of the mirror, track your performance, focus on getting stronger, get better at the movements. And so we, we preach this. And so it's not a surprise that you're going to say that, but I do think that someone would try to make the argument for, well, what about body fat percentage? It shows you. But even that can be very, not only misleading, but discouraging because there's been times in my journey somebody who has tracked body fat percentage more than the average person, I would say probably fluctuates, I think. I don't know. I don't know too many people that have tracked that data more than I have because I did it for a sport. And when, when I would do that, I could get really discouraged sometimes when I was dialed and I went the wrong direction on the body fat scale, you know, and anybody who watched my journey on YouTube experienced a little bit of this where. And if, and if I was hung up on just that and I didn't have the experience and knowledge that I had, I easily could have thrown my arms up and been like, what am I doing? I've made all these great sacrifices nutritionally as far as desserts, and I'm eating the way I'm supposed to and I'm training hard. And then this result didn't go the way I wanted to. Easily could throw my hands.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, even if you're just pay attention to body fat, it could mislead you and convince you that, you know, you need to aggressively, let's say do cardio or do something or restrict over. Yeah, just, just, just sort of change your entire approach and protocol in a negative direction just to manipulate that one factor versus, you know, performance itself. Is, is the Pursuit of it takes care of a lot of aesthetic and a lot of body fat and a lot of like muscle building attributes that will carry you so much further.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, I agree. I mean that's, that's one of the points I make is that one of them leads to improvements in the other, the other one doesn't. Yeah. So chasing a look doesn't lead to, it's not like a guaranteed, not guaranteed.

[Adam Schafer]

Could, but it doesn't mean it could.

[Sal DeStefano]

But it often doesn't.

[Adam Schafer]

Right.

[Sal DeStefano]

Lead to improvements in, let's say athletic performance. Right. Which looks like strength, stamina, mobility, just being able to move better in your body with better fitness. It doesn't always lead in that direction. Better performance almost always leads, almost always leads to a better look. So that's one reason why it's better. The other thing too is neither one of these is perfect because you could chase performance and go above and beyond. Right.

[Justin Andrews]

Especially PRs or something.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yes.

[Justin Andrews]

It really take you.

[Sal DeStefano]

Right. You could sacrifice life, quality and health in the pursuit of either one of these. But one of these almost immediately leads to the sacrifice of health and looks. If somebody's starting a fitness journey right now and they're just looking at the mirror and the scale, they almost immediately sacrifice health, performance, fitness. Because to them, first off, it's subjective in the mirror, which is already distorted. You know, people are like that with themselves. We know this personally and with, with clients and they stop paying attention to the other metrics. Whereas when you're as a trainer, I'll just say this right now, as a trainer, I, you know, looking how my client looked, I mean that was important. I could see that they're getting more fit and getting leaner, like that was important. But the objective performance measures in the gym were always a better gauge. They were always a better gauge. This is even true for like the studies on muscle and how healthy muscle is for you, what muscle does for your body with insulin sensitivity, with longevity, really the metric they use is strength, it's not muscle. So it's grip strength test or getting up off the floor. That's a better correlate to better health than just how much muscle you have on your body. Yeah. And this is going to be made even more true in the future with these drugs that they're trying to create to counteract some of the effects of GLP1s. Right. These myostatin blocking drugs or whatever. We had doctor seeds on explained it very well. He's like, you're going to have a bunch of people with more muscle who are more like they're obese than they are muscular in terms of their health. So performance. If somebody goes and starts on a fitness journey and dramatically improves the performance over two years, they're stronger, more stamina, better mobility. The great odds are they're also leaner, look better, more sculpted. Like you're gonna be able to tell. If that same person for two years just focused on the mirror and the scale, then the odds are they're gonna go oftentimes in the wrong direction. And we see this all the time. So that's why I think it's a. It's a good discussion. And it's especially good because what people sign up to do is change how they look. Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

And then this 90% of the time.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. And then the, the other stuff is like, yeah, it'll be good to get stronger. Yeah, it'll be good to move better. Like, that'll be good too. But I really just want to get rid of this belly. I really just want to.

[Adam Schafer]

What do you think about what even Justin said? Because. Because you could make the case an argument too, that that performance could lead into the unhealthy place also. And I think we have seen this in with the adoption of pr. You know, when I started training.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Even as when I started as a personal trainer, I didn't. Did you know, I didn't know what a PR was. I remember when people first started using that term, I didn't know what pr. What was a pr. Like, that wasn't like a. It's not like a staple fitness.

[Sal DeStefano]

It wasn't common terminology.

[Adam Schafer]

No. It became a thing that we started to chase after and, and I saw how unhealthy that could be. So to his point about even that, is there even a better way than saying chasing performance? What about chasing movement and like just getting great at movement? And part of getting great at movement is the ability to get stronger through the movement.

[Sal DeStefano]

Here's what's great with performance. First off, you have to chase it for a while before it becomes bad. So you take a beginner and they're like, I'm just gonna get stronger. There's a good three year period that's gonna benefit them. Now after that, you start getting extreme. Now you're starting to sacrifice or increase risk of injuries. The other thing too is overall performance has checks and balances. Yeah. Right. So can you chase strength too far? Yes. But what if you're also concerned with stamina, endurance, and mobility? Well, there's checks and balances.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

And I think in that Regard, because then you start getting into like training aids and like belts and you know, like certain types of compression gear and all these things to kind of help you pursue like a greater output. However, you're masking the signal of pain and you're masking the signal of dysfunction. And so, and I guess this the purist in me of if I'm just like focused on real performance, you have to listen to those body signals as you go through the process. So there's an area of need to stabilize and reinforce around the joint to build up your overall strength and to actually get more out of it. But if, if we're just pursuing it in terms of one specific lift or one thing that like, you know, I, I'm just going to ignore all my body signals and signs and, and, and pursue this goal exclusively. It can be problematic.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, what you guys are saying I think is so important to really unpack or to elaborate on, which is like defining performance.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right.

[Adam Schafer]

Because it isn't just a pr.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Kind of to the, the, the concern you raised, which I think is good for us to, to have dialogue around. Because the average person, when you think about lifting weights and you say you want to focus on performance, they do interpret that as, oh, just get stronger.

[Sal DeStefano]

Right.

[Adam Schafer]

And we do sometimes simplify that and say that to people. Just get stronger focus.

[Sal DeStefano]

Especially for the first few years.

[Adam Schafer]

Right, right. A lot of times we say that. But yeah, to your point, you're making it. Performance is so much more than that. It's, you know, it's the ability to move in different planes. It's stability around, it's stability around the joint. It's the ability to move your body quickly, to decelerate. It's, it is strength. It is a little bit of endurance or stamina. So performance encompasses a whole lot more than just pr.

[Justin Andrews]

Right.

[Adam Schafer]

And, and if you look at it holistically, performance that is, then it does have its natural checks and balances.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's 100. If you chase one dimensional performance and go extreme with it, that's problem. Yeah, yeah, you're right. Yeah. If you chase extreme endurance, you're, you're going to have problems. I mean, they do this, they've done autopsies on extreme endurance athletes and found heart damage because of that. Right. Extreme strength. I don't think I need to make the argument power lift. There's like lots of joint injuries and issues and mobility issues, even sacrificing health for it. Extreme mobility. You want to become like Gumby. You're going to Lose stability and you'll cause injuries there as well. So. But overall performance has natural checks and balances. And if you have that, holistic is a great word, focus on performance. Those checks and balances handle everything. And if you continue to progress in a, you know, and I hate to use this word because it gets bastardized but balanced way, what follows that is the way you look. Yeah. Like if over the next three years you embark on a fitness journey and your only goal, this is all it is. You're not even thinking about how you look. Your only goal is, I want to become way more fit. I want to have better athletic or fitness performance in a balanced way. I want to have strength, I want to have some endurance, I want to have good mobility, I want to be able to twist and move laterally, I want to be able to do all those things. At the end of that three year journey, what you will see in front of you is a physical, aesthetic, visual transformation, an incredible transformation. Which by the way, here's the other side of it. Chasing performance in this way. You know what else follows along with it if you're genuinely pursuing it? Diet. Nutrition starts to follow it and fueling your body. Because one of the biggest problems with people when they're chasing or one of the biggest challenges, I should say, with chasing the look is that people start to use their diet in inappropriate ways. Under eating is really common. More common with women, especially when they're just trying to lose weight. And oftentimes we get them on the show and we're like, you got to eat more. Yeah. The reason why you're not getting results or we feel like crap is you need to feed yourself. You know what, you know what showed up a long time ago for them? Drops in performance, loss of strength, loss of energy, loss of stamina. And so if you're looking at performance holistically and chasing that, the diet starts to follow. It really does start to follow.

[Adam Schafer]

That's your, if that's your North Star.

[Sal DeStefano]

That'S the North Star.

[Adam Schafer]

Like, I want to have better endurance, I want to have better strength, I want a better movement. Like if you, if you starve yourself or deprive yourself of nutrients for long.

[Sal DeStefano]

Enough, performance is gone.

[Adam Schafer]

All those things go down. So if that's your main driver is focused on that, then naturally the nutrition kind of has to come up with that.

[Sal DeStefano]

And here's where body fat percentage even goes wrong. How many times have you seen men and women chase a, a body fat percentage and just destroy their hormone profile? Oh yeah. Oh, yeah. Or Destroy their health.

[Adam Schafer]

I mean, that's like. That's one of the number one problems.

[Sal DeStefano]

With women's bikini I've had. Oh, yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

It's like the most prevalent issue.

[Sal DeStefano]

I've had female clients who were quote unquote, fitness fanatics who couldn't conceive. And they hired me as a trainer. I'm not a fertility expert, but I became their trainer. And, well, you're 16% body fat. Let's put you on a reverse diet. Let's increase your calories. Oh, no. Am I going to gain body fat? Yeah, you probably need to. And the goal wasn't to help them conceive, by the way. This is just. I, this, I find out afterwards this happened to me three times. And then the client came to me and goes, you're not going to believe this, Sal. What My husband and I have been struggling to. We've been looking, going to fertility doctors, and I'm pregnant. I don't know what happened. And then I'm like, I think it's because you were too lean before and now your body fan. You're fed yourself. So. And men, I've had men like this where they're so extreme with their wanting to look shredded. Low testosterone. It's like we got their body fat to go up a little bit and eat more, and of course they get stronger and then next, you know, testosterone goes up.

[Justin Andrews]

I think, too, we need to do a better job culturally of really, like, redefining aesthetics. Like, aesthetics. There's a beautiful way to move, too.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yes.

[Justin Andrews]

Which your body looks better when you have ability to move in a way that exemplifies, like, very seamless and flowing and natural movement. You notice it right away when somebody's dysfunctional but might have, like, an aesthetically good body.

[Sal DeStefano]

Right.

[Justin Andrews]

And they're very rigid and they're very incapable of, like, certain things. It's not attractive. And it's interesting to me that, like, a lot of these. And this is kind of where I guess the disconnect is always been for. For me with, like, bodybuilding and bikini pageants. It's the lack of, like, the display of the movement aspect of it. Like, so I know this was kind of incorporated maybe in the beginning where they actually did, like.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Movements and incorporated bodybuilding shows.

[Sal DeStefano]

Did. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

And I think they should bring that back. It's just like, it, it's such a disconnect. I. I feel. Because now we just get into, like, screams and we just get into, like, the things that will help to kind of create this illusion of What a natural body could be capable of, but you're not capable.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, I'm bringing up a really, really cool, interesting point that would be a fun study to do. Like imagine taking, you know, 20 of the opposite sex and having them move in a way that is rigid and stiff, you know, and they're shred, they're. They're the lowest body fat percentage. Then give them 3% higher, you know, put on body fat to them and then moving well. And would the opposite sex be a more attracted to that? I mean, I think so. I, I mean, I, I've openly talked about on the podcast many times how much I am like, seeing a beautiful squat is such an attractive, attractive thing for me. So if you see beautiful movement, I think it has, I think we are naturally kind of, We've talked about how the, the eye is naturally drawn to symmetry, so that obviously plays a role. So I don't think you could take that same person and put 30 body fat on them and that you would feel the same way. But I bet, I bet there is a range, which is interesting because we, we can. We get so focused on this number that we want to get down to, or we think we need to be this shredded or what that. And we've seen enough stuff where even women don't want the man to be as shredded as us men think we, that we need to be. And so if you added the other element of movement in there, and I wonder how much you could get away with increased body fat if you actually just move better to attract the opposite sex.

[Sal DeStefano]

The reason, the reason why we, we universally consider some things attractive and they've done studies on this. Okay. So depending on the region of the world, body fat is higher or lower. But there are general truths in terms of what humans consider attractive. There's a shoulder to waist ratio in men, there's a hip to waist ratio in women. There's muscle, there's development that is considered attractive regardless of where you come from in the world. Why? Because it displays health and function. Okay. But what we've done is we've taken the side effect that made that the main effect.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

So we've taken the side effect of good health. And it's like, oh, I like it when, you know, when a man has nice developed shoulders and doesn't have a big belly and has, well developed, you know, lower body, which is a sign of, I can function, I can move, I can protect you, I can provide, I probably have good testosterone, blah, blah, blah, blah. And we're like, let's just focus on that. Let's just make this. Just look at the look. And the same thing with women. And then what's happened, because it's just the look. And this is what happens when you focus on the side effect and not the main effect. We start to distort the hell out of it. Yeah, we start to distort it and force it. And media really pushes this even more as we share pictures and whatever and things go viral and then we move away from what is actually considered healthy. In fact, the extremes, although on media may be sold to us as attractive, in the real world, extremes are not. Everybody knows this like, you know, a super shredded super Jack dude that's above and beyond what you could accomplish naturally. We may celebrate in social media, but for the average woman, it's not too far. Right. Same thing for the other direction. But my whole point with this is, the whole point with this is if you're on a fitness journey and you want a look, you want to look healthy and fit, just get healthy and fit and you'll look healthy and fit.

[Justin Andrews]

It'll happen.

[Sal DeStefano]

It will. And you brought up symmetry. Symmetry is a great, like symmetry and balance show health. So balance is your upper body and lower body, they match. Right. You know, you don't have like this big muscular upper body with these tiny skinny little legs or vice versa. That's balanced. Symmetry is right to left. Right. Your, your, your right side matches your left side. And we, we score this highly in bodybuilding and all that stuff. You know what develops balance and symmetry? Moving in different planes of movement. Yeah. Having overall good fitness. Overall meaning the whole body.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, a lot more variety of movement.

[Sal DeStefano]

If you have overall good performance and you can move in different planes of motion and you can rotate, you're going to be balanced and symmetrical. And the irony of this again is that we chase the thing that often doesn't even lead to the thing that we're chasing and we sacrifice all this stuff when. If you just went after these and they're objective, what's great about performance is it's objective, it's not subjective. So I can see on the bar, I've added weight. I can see that I'm doing more reps. I can see that my stamina has improved. I can see that I have better mobility. My God, I couldn't squat fully before. Now I can squat fully without pain. I couldn't do a lateral squat, I couldn't do a windmill. Now I can like. Very objective. Then it results in the subjective things that we're Looking for.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, what are we. Where are we at, Justin? 23, 25 programs. We've written something like that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, 25.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, 25. There's only one that we tell people they can run indefinitely, forever, over and.

[Sal DeStefano]

Over and over again.

[Adam Schafer]

It's. There's only the maps. Performance literally encompasses everything that we're talking about right now. And it's for that reason, like, so no matter the goal, we tell people, like, it's the one program that kind of will take care of.

[Sal DeStefano]

There's no weaknesses in it because it has the holistic performance baked into the programming. So strength, stamina, mobility, multiplanar movements, which include things like rotation and lateral movement. I mean, it's all in unilateral stuff. Unilateral endurance.

[Adam Schafer]

Inside there, it's got everything.

[Sal DeStefano]

Power. You have power in there.

[Adam Schafer]

Mobility days. I mean, it's literally. It really is every. It covers the basis every other one of our programs. Great for what?

[Sal DeStefano]

For narrow in scope.

[Adam Schafer]

Exactly. Is really amazing. But then I can tell you, like, okay, well, you. If you've been running that for, say, a year, you're probably going to want to move to this one because you're. You're lacking X, Y and Z. Like, there's. There's a way to pick apart every other single one for that reason. But performance has always been. Which is ironic because you would think that that would be the most popular program that we've ever sold. And it is one of the popular ones. But it's not the most popular when it technically should be.

[Sal DeStefano]

No, because it's.

[Justin Andrews]

People are unfamiliar with a lot of the movements in it, and there's always a reserve, I think, with that because it's. It's challenging. You get in the comfort of the expectation is like, I'm gonna. I'm gonna have this type of an experience as I work out, and then I'm. I'm really just focused on. It's like, you don't want to learn too many things. Like, you just want to kind of stick with what's going to build the muscle and give you the look.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, I. I was going to say, I think that Sal's whole point of this is. Is why that people don't. Is that I think most people decide when they. When they turn on the podcast for the first time and go, I'm going to listen to good fitness content or I'm going to go to the gym. I want to look better is the first thing. And to the average person, mass performance says performance. Oh, I don't I just want to look good.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, that's right.

[Justin Andrews]

It's the perception.

[Adam Schafer]

But what you're saying right now is just that that pursuit will give you that thing. And I think that if more people understood that had a holistic approach to performance, they would get that byproduct that they, they absolutely want.

[Sal DeStefano]

Which single. And you already answered this, but I'll ask it differently. Right. Which single program could we take a group of people on, have them run it for four years and result in the best look? Yeah. Performance.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Which single program could somebody run and run and run and would nudge them in the right direction with diet more than any other program. Yeah. Performance. So it's interesting. And again, I got to stress this. If you're, if your performance goal is super narrow in scope, this can definitely go haywire. But when you have, when you're looking at performance holistically, checks and balances and symmetry and balance and, you know, aches and pains and injury, it's like all taken care of just because you're doing, you know, because you're moving in, in that direction. Which is cool. It's a good discussion to have. Because as a trainer, when I, when, when you train clients, if you want to do a good job, you stop, you stop focusing. You take their body fat percentage and aesthetics and you place it down the list. And at the top of the list is, I'm gonna see if I, I'm gonna get this person to improve their fitness and health. Because you always know what's gonna happen. And by the way, it takes a while to figure this out as a trainer. Because when you're a trainer, early on, someone says, I wanna lose 30 pounds. You're like, we're gonna lose 30 pounds. That's what I'm gonna focus on. But then later on you're like, that'll happen. Yeah, we're gonna get you stronger endurance. We're gonna get you moving.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, even when the, like, I had clients that were like very aesthetic driven, point where they're gonna then take that and then go to a point where they can get on stage. It's like, I'm sprinkling in like rotation. I'm sprinkling in like a multi planar type exercises because, you know, I want them to keep pursuing their goal long term, you know, and you can't just, you're gonna hit a wall and it's going to be pain and it's going to be some kind of dysfunction you're going to have to contend with. So whether you like it or not. Like it's, it's, it's coming for you.

[Sal DeStefano]

Totally. All right. I want to do a little not announcement, but like, what do they call them? Public service announcements. I think it's important to talk about.

[Justin Andrews]

We should get these after Saturday morning cartoons.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, it's. I think right now is important to talk about and that's that our brains, our minds, however you believe, were not designed or didn't evolve to handle constant news cycles. Oh my God. Yeah, it just. You guys too much. I don't care who you are. But you get caught in the constant news cycle, it will decrease your quality of life and make you more anxious. Yeah. It will make you more angry. It is not healthy for you. And under the arguments like, I need to know what's happening. No, you don't. No, you don't. You don't. You know what's happening all the time. It's, it got crazy the first time. I remember this really being a thing. You guys want to know. And by the way, they could, they tracked this like when this started becoming a thing where we started to see like these like disorders resulting from just constant exposure to news. It was after the first Gulf War, so when CNN was like the first 24 hour news network. The war is on. Suddenly people are tuning in all day long every single day. Right. And that led to all these other news networks that were 24, 7 and now we have social media now you can throw in, you have people's opinions.

[Justin Andrews]

About the things that happen, which, you know, that was a whole nother mess. Like I remember the news was like at like 8 o' clock or something. Or like 5 or 8 o'. Clock. Yeah. Like two options through, through the day or even just one day a week. And then it just, you know, started to, to really accelerate from there.

[Sal DeStefano]

Our minds are not, they're, they're not like prepared or able to comprehend what's happening everywhere, all the time. It's just too much. It's too much. It's too scary. It puts us in this really bad state. I had a friend of mine call me the other day because obviously right now we're stuck in this like this big. The last time it was like this, although it was for a prolonged period of time was during COVID It was like, oh my God, this got everybody. Yeah, but this person called me and is like, what's happening? I'm freaking out. I can't believe that this is happening, that they're doing this and that. And I'm like, listen, turn everything off. For three days and just focus on what's in front of you. Get in nature, like, your friends, your family, your neighborhood. Has anything changed in those places? And they're like, no, just do that for three days. Three days later, I checked in. They're like, oh, my God, what a difference. I did not know. I was so caught in that.

[Adam Schafer]

I wonder what type of person is more susceptible to something like that. I mean, I'm. I'm always trying to be like, I, I. Katrina is like, the complete opposite. Like, in fact, I was watching.

[Sal DeStefano]

She did a good job of just.

[Adam Schafer]

I don't even know if it's a good job. I'm like. She's like. I'm like, I have to, like, watch some stuff. So I'm like, just so she understands where. What's going on. In fact, she was. She was saying something to me. She's like, what are you. What are you into? And I'm. I just have to watch this right now. There's a lot of stuff going on. I just want to. I want to get somewhat understanding of what's happening. So I'm just. My hands. My head's not completely in the sand. Why do you even watch that? Why do you. I'm just like, well, I. Trust me, honey, I don't want to just be. Completely ignore everything in the world that's going on. So I want to know a little bit so I can inform you, because you definitely don't know anything about what's going on. So, I mean, I. I'm fascinated, and I think I'm very little. Like, I do not go down that. That rabbit hole of stuff. Really. And. And you guys send me stuff a lot. And I'm like, I just can't watch it. I just.

[Sal DeStefano]

You.

[Adam Schafer]

It puts me in a bad mood. It. It. It. It's like pulling a thread. You pull one thread, and then it leads you down another deeper rabbit hole. And it's like.

[Sal DeStefano]

And now speculation. Like, so many people speculate, and there's just so much.

[Adam Schafer]

And it's. And.

[Sal DeStefano]

And the more outrageous it is, the more viral.

[Adam Schafer]

That's right. And. And it's. None of it is positive or good. It's all negative and unhealthy. And so it's really tough. And. And I'm speaking from somebody who I think doesn't really do it. I know how tough it is for me. Like, if I just give a little bit of a hold of it, I can see where it's just like, okay, well, hold on. I have to finish this.

[Sal DeStefano]

Our brains are so wired for negative scary stuff. It's not even funny. Like if you go on a Yelp review of a restaurant and you see 74 and five star reviews and then one one star review and it has this like terrible story that weighs a lot.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, you only read those. I actually, when I go, isn't that funny? When I go to look for a review on something, I don't read any of the positive ones. I read the five worst and I. And then I make peace with what they say. In other words, if I'm looking to buy, we just. What did we just buy recently? We always bought something different for the first time. And. And we were reading the reviews and it's like, well, read the five bad ones out to me, out loud to me. And so if I hear, I'm like, oh, that's not that bad. Or oh, that, yeah, that's okay.

[Sal DeStefano]

Or.

[Adam Schafer]

Or I go, oh, oh, that's a problem. Is there more that say that? You know, it's like that's all you read. I don't read the. I don't take the time to read all the positive ones. You read the handful of negative ones, which is crazy to think that we are wired to do.

[Justin Andrews]

That's your filter.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, we're so wired. I've talked about this many episodes. I made a conscious eff other hour to think about the blessings of the. Just the previous couple hours because I was doing it just at the end of the day and I was realizing that I was getting repetitive. And when I started doing it every other hour, I'm like, oh my God. There's all these things that I miss that are wonderful blessings. Like the conversation I had with so and so and the guy that said hi to me, you know, on the road. And you know, I went and you know, had a, you know, you know, Justin told a funny joke and you just forget about it. Because our brains are so wired.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

To hyper focus and concentrate on scary stuff. So it's like, we gotta unplug. Do you guys remember? I remember this. This actually happened. And it's funny too, because I think it's so traumatic that when you bring it up sometimes to people, they'll be like, oh, I forgot about that. Do you guys remember during COVID news channels had a running death total on the bottom.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh my God.

[Sal DeStefano]

Do you guys remember that? It would actually have.

[Justin Andrews]

It's literally just like blocked.

[Sal DeStefano]

You forgot my head. Yeah, like a ticker. Yeah. Like I'm turning on the news, which, you know, we're in our Houses. We got nothing else to do. It's even more alluring to scare the crap out of ourselves. And on the bottom is a running ticker of death, which is so crazy.

[Adam Schafer]

It's wild because that. That's happening right now, right?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Like, what is. What is the. What is the. The. So how many people are dying by the second? There's always people dying.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

So it's like you take something that has always happened for as long as we've been around, that's at a high rate when you think of it as. As a whole population. And so you focus it on one thing like this, and then it just exacerbates it. Like, oh, my God, this is so crazy.

[Sal DeStefano]

My favorite, my. One of my favorites is I remember having this conversation. This was. It was like 10 years ago. I don't remember who I was talking to, but they're like, you got to be careful because, you know, kidnappers and this and that. And I'm like, I feel like it's worse. Is it worse? Are kids getting more, like abducted? Like, what's going on? We looked up the stats. I'm like, oh, my God. It's all time better. Yeah, it's. It's all time lows. I thought it was worse.

[Justin Andrews]

See it now, though, like, constantly.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yes, I know. Yeah, dude. It's just. We're not wired for it, so. Because some people are like, well, I can watch it and I'm okay. You're not wired for it, dude. You're fighting your biology. Like, you need to unplug completely. I think once a week at least. You need to not go on any of that stuff.

[Justin Andrews]

I mean, I saw this firsthand when. Because my wife used to work in pediatrics. And it was like, you know, these kids that come to are hurt and are really, really sick.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

And it's like, so her perspective in her lens is like, you know, well, they didn't wear a helmet. And so, like, this happened. And so it's like, you know, just our kids learning how to ride a bike. She's just like, ah. And I'm like, it's going to be all right. You know, like, that's it. It's just because it's. She was so inundated with like, all the worst case scenarios constantly. And so it was like how her brain was, like, proceeding.

[Adam Schafer]

I remember in my. In my mid-20s, I dated an ER nurse. And I remember at one point, this is before social media was so out of control. This is early on, right. And so we were all being inundated or plugged to our phones the way we are today. And I remember, like, having to tell her, like, I don't want to hear any more stories. Like, yeah, like, literally everyone, every night was a crazy story. Like, she had multiple. It wasn't like, I mean, you're an ER nurs and late night crazy overnight. Like, you're getting all the drunk, crazy, meth heads, everybody, that's gunshot wounds. Everything's bad. There's no, like, positive story. It's always nuts. And so, like, you hear that all the time. Like, oh, my God. I don't. It just puts me in a awful mood hearing that all the time. And so we've now all put, you know, ER nurse filters on.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Every day. And so we think that everything is so tragic, so bad happening all the time, so evil. It's like there's all. There's. There has been evil and death and murder and all those things for the. Since the beginning time and arguably a fraction of what it is today, but you get to see a thousand times more than what you saw just 20, 30 years ago. So it's like you think it's happening way, way more.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, my, my. I don't remember one of my family members is like, oh, if something really bad happens, you'll find out. You need to go looking for it. You know, some. You'll find out. Right? Don't worry about it. I think a good way to do this would be to schedule it for yourself and be like, okay, this day, this time I'll go and check and see what's going on. And then I'm gonna turn it.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, the other thing is this too, Sal. I mean, you. We've talked about this before. I. And so what I've actually done in the last couple weeks, ever since all this happened, is I have, you know, I have a handful of Instagram pages between my sons, the business page, my personal page, and then I have my car page. I go to my car page because there, I literally don't follow anybody on there. And it's only cars.

[Justin Andrews]

The rhythm isn't killing you.

[Adam Schafer]

So literally, like, I been just looking at cars.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's all.

[Adam Schafer]

You know what I'm saying? Like, and so you can start to. And I even started doing more of that on my personal page so I could get. Start to get fed that. Because on my personal page, I follow thousands of people, and a lot of those are talking heads. And like, and so when the. The whole Charlie Kirk thing happened, like, my whole feed on that was nothing. But that And I'm like, oh, I got to get off of this. And just switching to the other Instagram, same platform. Nothing. Got none of that news. So it's like you control a lot of what's being fed to you by the things that you like and that you watch. And so one of the ways that you can do that is to really start to curate that better.

[Sal DeStefano]

There's some interesting studies on how like on people's happiness in connection to their own wealth or their possessions. And it's, there's a stronger correlate to how well you're doing in relation to other people versus how well you're doing. In other words, if you're doing so well.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

But you see that everybody else is doing a lot better than you. Ooh, happiness goes down.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, sure.

[Sal DeStefano]

And it doesn't matter how well or how bad you're doing. That has a stronger correlate to how you feel about yourself than how you're actually doing.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

And this is true for fitness. The impact that social media has on girls, for example, and body image is profound. It's absolutely. Because you go on there and it's, you know, the algorithm is narrating to you a story that's actually not true. You know, you would think if you're into fitness because then you'll get fitness stuff right in your algorithm if that's what you're looking at. For four hours or five hours of the day, your brain is perceiving that you're around those kind of people that much every single day. And I got news to tell everybody. I manage gyms for a living.

[Adam Schafer]

They don't look like that.

[Sal DeStefano]

No. And that's a self selection bias of people that work out. Yeah. You don't see RIP people a ripped person in the gym is rare, let alone in, in public.

[Adam Schafer]

So it's like, it's wild how that, you know, that whole perception drift works too and how that, how that. It's like it's, it happens over time. It's not like an overnight thing. Like the first time you look at. I had a moment like that I was recently even down on myself of like, man, I've just been so inconsistent and this and that and like about my working out at my training was, was touring this house the other day and walk in and meet this realtor. First words as mouths like, man, you don't look like you've missed a day, a day of working out. And I'm like so ironic you just said that to me because I literally, I literally, I know, it's like, I don't know if that's good, right? And it's just like, oh, I'm good. But, but it's, it's interesting how much your, your perception drifts because I am around that all the time. And I have fit friends that I'm talking and we talk fitness all day and we're looking at bodies. And so even myself, even with my level of awareness of running gyms like you guys have, and I know that, I know I used to do that, to be able to stand them up and be like, find me five bodies that you even want to look like in here. Like, they don't, they're not there. There's very few people are walking around single digit body fat. But you get, you, you, you look at it enough, you talk to enough people like that, you get in your own little bubble. And then even Mike perception, it's so crazy that.

[Sal DeStefano]

And you'll see this, you see this often in female clients. They'll have all these signs that their health is declining because they want to get leaner. Like, they start to lose their period. They start to have these hormone issues. Hair, skin, nails starting to show that there may be a nutrient deficiency. But they're like, yeah, no, I, like, I want to be in the teens body fat percentage. And then, you know, as a trainer, you start to point this out and then you can see the light bulb turn on and go, oh, wait a minute, maybe this is not doing me any good. Yeah, you know, it's pretty crazy. Doug, I want, I want to hear you brought up earlier some crazy investment news or research.

[Adam Schafer]

I'm glad you brought it up. Yeah, no, I just came across. Doug, pull it up. There's an article on 8.

[Sal DeStefano]

I saw it up there earlier.

[Adam Schafer]

So one of our partners just took on 100 million.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, wow.

[Adam Schafer]

And really, I think it sounds like it's going to get prescribed for like sleep apnea and stuff like that. Is that, is that correct? Would you correct me if I'm wrong?

[Podcast Announcer]

So, yeah, they're looking for FDA clearance for medical use of the eight sleep for sleep apnea, menopause, et cetera.

[Sal DeStefano]

Menopause? Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Wow, bro, think about this. I mean, every client that I've ever had that was menopausal, one of the things they complain about the most is the temperature at night, how much and just poor sleep period, how much it fluctuates and throws them off. They can't be too, they're. It's either too hot, it's too cold, you can't like. And the fact that this thing adjusts on the fly, on the fly to your body temperature is rad.

[Sal DeStefano]

Makes sense what it does. So it says for AI medical tech. So eight sleep has this really interesting AI in there that monitors your sleep while you're sleeping and then adjusts itself on the fly to improve your sleep. So if your sleep starts to go, you start to move out of those, you know, those phases of sleep and, oh, you know, he's coming out of it, let's adjust to bring him back down. And then it learns what works for you.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Which is wild. Of course they got a huge. That's like, that's like groundbreaking.

[Adam Schafer]

I'm pretty sure I've personally just talking to people on the street, like sold hundreds of these by myself because I think they're so. I mean anybody who has ever got uncomfortable and maybe, maybe this is just, this is my experience, but temperature at night matters so much to me. It makes such a difference. It's the reason why we tease me about it when we go right to a Airbnb or hotel the very first. I've trained myself that the first thing I do is go straight to that throne, drop it as low as I can. Because I know if I don't, if, and if I even wait till it's bedtime to go do that, the time that it takes to cool that house off is going to disrupt the first two to three hours of my sleep. That's how much of a difference, like temperature matters for me. Like having. It's very clearly wild.

[Sal DeStefano]

And because your body temperature changes as you sleep, it makes sense to something for something to adjust. I mean, how many times have you felt cold and then I'm hot and I'm cold and it's your body temperature.

[Adam Schafer]

I also, and I know this stuff like, you know the whole thunder vest thing of like to help dogs calm down and do things like that. I know that I've never been able to because I know some people are like, you know, oh, just sleep with a sheet or no sheets. Like, I can't sleep without weight. I have to have weight. I don't know, attached to my trauma or some bullshit whatever, tease me that I need a thunder vest to sleep or whatever that. But I need weight. And so I love that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Is this why when you share a room with Justin, you have him just.

[Adam Schafer]

Lay on top of the sleep. But that I can in the middle of summer? We're in summer right now. We have a 90 something degree day today. And I think yesterday was 90 something. And I've got my sheet, my middle blanket and my comforter on top of me.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

But it cool. It cools underneath so.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, it's because the monsters can't. When the sheets on you, the blankets on you. Yeah. When I was younger, I'm mad that.

[Adam Schafer]

I wasn't an early investor or not. I feel like that's like.

[Sal DeStefano]

Do you know, for the longest time, it's not like this anymore, but for up until it, like, like well into my adulthood, I had to have socks on. I couldn't have sleep. I couldn't have my feet uncovered. And I don't know what it was. It maybe a security thing or something.

[Justin Andrews]

I can't have it tucked in.

[Adam Schafer]

Dude, socks up when you had sex.

[Sal DeStefano]

No, no. Unless. Unless you want to be fast and the kids are out in the. You know, then just take off what's necessary. You sleep.

[Adam Schafer]

You sleep with your socks on, but you have. They take them off for sex.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Well, no, I don't sleep with my socks on anymore. But for the longest time.

[Justin Andrews]

You did one for six.

[Sal DeStefano]

I haven't. Let's be honest. You get the grippy socks, you don't slide. Hey, that's. Hey, that's. Talk about a brilliant invention. My kids, you know, because we don't wear shoes in the house. The grippy socks that little kids wear. Yeah, those are brilliant, dude. Absolutely brilliant.

[Adam Schafer]

You ever see kids fail because their.

[Sal DeStefano]

Socks are so slippery? They found us. Anyway, I got a cool study for you guys. Another awesome thing about walking. This is a big study. This study involved 11,000 people. And here's what it found. Walking. People who walk more than 100 minutes every day have a 23% lower chance of lower back pain. That's it. That's it. 100 minutes a week, which is not. What is that per day? That's not much at all. Right.

[Justin Andrews]

100 minutes.

[Adam Schafer]

Less than 10 minutes a day.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Less.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Less than 10. Eight minutes a day.

[Sal DeStefano]

To drop your. To drop the.

[Podcast Announcer]

No, there's seven days in a week.

[Adam Schafer]

So 10. 10 would be. You said how long?

[Sal DeStefano]

100 minutes.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay, so a little more than 10 minutes. So for a 15 minute walk.

[Sal DeStefano]

15 minute walk a day would lower your odds of back pain by a fourth. Just. That's not even much, bro. That's.

[Adam Schafer]

So let's talk about all the things that. Why that has to do. 100. The. The hip movement. Right. Getting the hips to move has to be a big factor.

[Sal DeStefano]

I think it's.

[Adam Schafer]

I think it's circulation.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yep. I think it's. More like sitting all day hurts your back. Well, that's what I think.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, yeah, no, that's what I mean, I think, I think sitting in a seated contracted position for the hips, we.

[Justin Andrews]

Need that extension too. Yeah, Upright.

[Adam Schafer]

And so just standing up gets that full extension like that mobilizes the hips, increases circulation. And even as you know, whenever you do these studies, though, I can't help but go like, duh. Well, not just duh, but 80 years ago. This study doesn't. Doesn't work. It only works because how terrible.

[Sal DeStefano]

We are so sedentary.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes. Like, that's this study. I guarantee you did a study and it would, it would be a moot point. Like we did a study on to that people who walk 12 minutes a day, we didn't notice anything because everybody.

[Sal DeStefano]

Moved, everybody moved that much.

[Adam Schafer]

But we do so many people don't move that we've gotten to a point where it's like, hey, just try and move for 12 minutes a day and it'll, it'll impact your life.

[Sal DeStefano]

I mean, it's both, it's both kind of crazy news, but good news, right? You don't need to do much.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, I mean, it's good to. It's good news for the person who's trying to get started moving in the right direction and knowing you don't need.

[Sal DeStefano]

Much to make a big difference.

[Adam Schafer]

Exactly. But that doing as little as that, if it's outside of what you are doing, is a really good thing already. And you're already moving in the right direction. So for that point, it is also very.

[Sal DeStefano]

The other thing that's understated with walking is it's, it's positive impact effect on digestion. First off, it dramatically lowers blood sugar just to walk after you eat, improves insulin sensitivity. We've hammered that to death on this podcast. But also, if you look at the digestive system, first of all, gravity is meant to. Is part of the digestive system. One of the issues that astronauts have when they're on the space station is their digestion goes haywire because they don't have gravity. They get constipated, they constipation, Lots of digestive issues. Right.

[Justin Andrews]

Because there's no movement, there's no pressure.

[Sal DeStefano]

There'S no gravity pushing down. Also, if you look at the digestive system and the muscles that surround and move through it, walking actually allows or helps with the digestive process. So eating while sitting and staying or laying down, not good.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, a lot of the stabilizing muscles too. Put that compressive.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. Force on, you know, your intestines.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right.

[Justin Andrews]

Stomach.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right. 100%. All right. We were talking about health earlier and how getting healthier, improving performance will give you what you want in terms of aesthetics. I think this is true for a lot of different things. One of our partners, Caldera Lab, and their skin care products, their skincare products. Now in the studies.

[Adam Schafer]

Great connection there, right?

[Sal DeStefano]

In the studies have shown over 90% of participants notice all these reducing fine lines and wrinkles, healthier skin looks younger, all that stuff. But really, if you look at Caldera lab and you look at the focus of their products about improving skin health, it's not about making you look better. It's like through improved skin health.

[Justin Andrews]

It's not like hiding anything.

[Sal DeStefano]

No. And like their serum, it has natural botanicals that encourage a healthy microbiome on the face, which you have to have if you don't want blemishes.

[Adam Schafer]

Do you think there's a clear divide in our society of people that are, you know, alternative route or a holistic route like that? That, like, this is how I'm going to keep beauty. This is how I'm going to look young. This is how I'm going to avoid wrinkles. And then there's the other half that are like, botox face surgery. Do whatever it takes to do that. You think it's a pretty clear divide?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, I think most people know that good health leads to how you look, but we're so focused on the visual signs of health that that's what we end up with.

[Adam Schafer]

I would love to see a comparison of those to see if one's growing and one shrinking and what, like, right, like if that's true. Like, because I feel like.

[Sal DeStefano]

Here, I'll give you a good example, bro. This is one of my favorite examples that people get pissed off when I bring it up, but whatever. Look at the shoes that people wear, especially women wear, and how bad they are for health. Look at how bad. It's so crazy. I'll go somewhere with my wife and she'll put some shoes on. They look nice. I like the way they look too. They look great. And halfway through the night, she's like, I gotta get out of the. I'm like, why are you wearing those shoes?

[Caller]

They're like this.

[Justin Andrews]

Squeeze it.

[Adam Schafer]

Elevated and smashed again.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, dude. And then. And then she'll talk to me.

[Justin Andrews]

One toes, like, popping out.

[Sal DeStefano]

And she'll make jokes like, you wouldn't last five minutes in these. And I'm like, I Probably wouldn't. She's like, you know, women have been trained to just deal with it since we were, you know, teenagers, to just deal with this terrible, whatever, pain in my foot, my back, or whatever.

[Adam Schafer]

So. Okay, so make that connection to the face thing or the.

[Sal DeStefano]

Just. It's because it's about the. It's an extreme example of, like, looking a person particular way and you sacrifice.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay, I got you. Yeah. Because, I mean, obviously the 90s kicked off the popularity of things like, you know, plastic surgery and Botox and things like that. And so I'm. I'm assure.

[Sal DeStefano]

I'm sure botox in the 90s, it was. Right.

[Adam Schafer]

I know plastic surgery was.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, yeah. That's been around since the 70s.

[Adam Schafer]

Right. So, I mean. I mean, I really feel like the 90s, I even remember in the early 2000s, there was movies and shows that were starting to come about.

[Sal DeStefano]

There was like.

[Adam Schafer]

So I really feel like that was. That was like. And then Botox became a thing where you are having. And they still have these groups that, you know, like candle parties that are Botox parties. Right. Instead, what do they do? You know, like, candle parties were always popular. Like, they do, like, show up and.

[Sal DeStefano]

They give you, like, Botox. There's a nurse there that hooks you.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. You didn't know that was a thing. I think that's a really popular thing.

[Sal DeStefano]

Wow. Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

So, I mean, so I know that that's continued to grow. So what I'd be interested to see is, like, popular. Are we simultaneously growing this, this, this. You know, I don't counterculture or opposite that are. People are going, like, you know what? I want to look young, too, and I don't want wrinkles. And I. But I'm gonna go this holistic approach and so approach. So I'm trying to do essential oil stuff. I'm trying to do, like, the. You know what therapy I'm trying to do.

[Justin Andrews]

No, because, like, yeah, I know my wife got really, like, into this once. She started to look into a lot of the beauty products, look at the chemicals that they've had, and also, too just, like, stuff they've found that they've had to recall so much. And it's like, you know, being all ingrained in the garden, all this. It's like there's a lot of, like, natural herbs, and there's natural things that we just discard because it's like, oh, that sounds like crunchy hippie stuff. But she started to put all these, like, oils and things in her hair, and it's like. Because she was getting, like, hair was, like, falling out, you know, from some of these products and things. And it's like, you realize that's what's causing it. And it's like. And they're promoting it. And it's completely different how they're promoting it.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

But then, like, now, too, it's getting fuller and, like, her hair looks different. So it's like, it's interesting. And once people kind of really understand, like, well, maybe it's not really what they're promoting.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's not.

[Justin Andrews]

Those chemicals aren't, like, benefiting you like they should.

[Sal DeStefano]

There's a lot of things like that in the world where we. We chase this one thing because we think that that's what's going to produce what we're looking for. In fact, we're moving away from it. One of my. My other favorite studies, I just talked about this. Who's I talking to? My cousins. Because they were. I have a bunch of cousins and my brother, and we're all in this, like, group thread. And everybody's really successful in there. Like, one of my cousins has a startup company. I am betting money the guy's gonna be a billionaire one day with his company, a bunch of investment bakers. Everybody does really well. And so. And they're all very driven. But the conversations go to like, oh, I'm going to buy this car. I'm going to do this thing, or whatever. And so I'm in there with them and I'm like, you know, I said, what are you guys after when you're doing these things? And so then they're like, well, I like it this and that, but all. It all boils down to, like, happiness. Like, I'm doing this thing because it makes me happy, or I'm buying this thing that makes me happy. And so I'm like, do you guys want to know what the data shows on the. If you're looking for happiness with money, what's going to give you the most roi? And nobody was familiar with it, and I wasn't either until I saw that study where it shows there's. If you buy something that makes you, quote, unquote, happy, your happiness does spike, but then it drops pretty. It drops pretty quickly. And if you buy that same thing again, you're no longer going to get that effect. In other words, you're like, I really want that. Whatever. I really want that car. And you get that car and you're happy. You're not going to buy the same car again. Exactly. Because the effect's gone. It's not going to give it to you. Right. So that's like the bottom. Then it goes to experiences, especially things that help you grow as a person, that gives you a longer happiness curve. So I'm going to go learn something, maybe go on this trip and, you know, change my outlook on things. But at the top of it, when you look at the studies, if you use your has to be voluntary, if you use your money to help someone else, like a person or a charity that you really believe in, you voluntarily do it. Not only does your happiness go up, it stays up. And then for the rest of your life, for as long as they've studied.

[Adam Schafer]

This, every time you think about it, it taps into that.

[Sal DeStefano]

It goes back up.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Actually, you're just as happy as you were the first time you did it.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

So if your ultimate goal with your money is to be more happy from having it, because there's a lot of things to do with money, security and, you know, all that stuff. But if you're like, okay, I got this extra money, I want to get happier. The data shows helping other people with it will give you the most roi, which nobody knows. Nobody knows.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, I mean, I think. I don't know, there's a lot of, you know, these sent to millionaires and stuff like that that ended up doing a lot of philanthropy as they go, you know, later. I think whether they knew that going into it or they realized it after they bought everything, they're no longer happy. It probably happens like that. To be honest, you probably were massively driven to have. And then you got. And then you got it all. And you got it all multiple times. You're like, that's not even fun to buy that anymore. Like, maybe I'll try giving it, see what happens. And you go, oh, whoa. That actually felt really good. Every time I think about it, it still feels good. Like, I'm sure that's a.

[Sal DeStefano]

A hack.

[Adam Schafer]

They figure out eventually.

[Sal DeStefano]

I know, but it's cool. I wish, I wish people more give.

[Adam Schafer]

Serve, serve and teach, you know, is the secret for sure.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's so funny. It's so funny. But we chase the stuff that doesn't provide that. So it's just, you know, you're not what you eat, you're what you digest. Did you know, as you get older, you produce less digestive enzymes, resulting in worse assimilation. Digestive issues. Well, check this out. You gotta go see this product called MassZymes. These are digestive enzymes for people who like to be fit. Take them when you eat, get Better digestion, better recovery, better assimilation. Go to MassZymes.com that's M A S S Z Y M E S dot com. MindPump. Use the code MindPump10. Get 10% off. Back to the show.

[Podcast Announcer]

Our first caller is Bill from Texas.

[Sal DeStefano]

Bill.

[Adam Schafer]

Hey, Bill, how you doing?

[Caller]

Yeah, how you doing, guys?

[Adam Schafer]

How's it going? How's it going, Bill?

[Caller]

I've listened to you so many times. I truly think I know you. Each one of you all right?

[Adam Schafer]

Hell yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

How can we help you, sir?

[Caller]

Well, I've got a unique situation, but not really that unique over the last few years. About 15 years ago, I was diagnosed with a chronic disease and told I live about two years. That disease is called pulmonary fibrosis. Your lungs become hard and stiff and eventually don't transfer oxygen. So I still have affects how we exercise because if I do a routine, I have to gather my breath again. It takes about 30 seconds, give or take. And I'm on oxygen when I do that. So I am taking oxygen, but it still takes time to recover. That's a problem I don't know how to address. And then in addition to that, I've got three things going on. I've had sarcopenia, which is when you get older, many people lose muscle mass, and I've lost that. So my strength on my left side is probably 80% of what it was. But on my right, complicated by the stroke, it's about 20%. So I've got to work out some way to balance that. It's. It's a problem. My voice bothers me in it. It's not going to change. So that's life. But I also have four strokes and I've also got IPF or idiopathic pulmonary fibrosis. But I'm feeling good. As I sit here and look at you guys, I feel as good as anybody I'm looking at or might be looking at me.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's great. Okay, so you want some advice on how to approach exercise considering all the things that you've just told us?

[Caller]

Correct, I do. My routine has to be a little different. I was a triathlete, a senior triathlete. I had to stop when I got diagnosed. So I'm conversing with good exercise as well as swimming and running, which I did as a triathlete. You guys probably know that triathletes make a life study of diet and exercise to win events. I did okay. But now I have to get people like you, experts to help guide me in the right direction.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay, so Bill first off, I love that you listen to the show, and I appreciate it.

[Justin Andrews]

You through a lot, Bill.

[Adam Schafer]

So impressed, dude.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. So we can address the sarcopen through strength training, but the approach is going to be different. And also considering the difference in strength between your right and left. And so what it would look like. And I have some experience. I have minimal, but I do have some experience working with people who've had pulmonary fibrosis. And the way that the workout looked for us was we would do one rep, we'd put the weight down, we'd wait 20 or 30 seconds, and then we would do another rep. So it was not a complete. The set didn't look like 1, 2, 3. It was like 1. Put it down. We'd wait till we caught our breath, then we do it again. And so the set would get extended. It'd be a long set.

[Caller]

What I'm doing now, the work that I have, I wear five days a week. One day is lower, one day is upper. I run every day, five days a week. I work out with both the kettlebells and dumbbells, either upper or lower money. Through Thursday. Friday's my wife's day. I call it Patty day, and we do something. So I want to work on my schedule. I have of a Sunday through Thursday, and alternating days up or lower. I'm right now doing between 12 and 20 reps, two to three sets.

[Sal DeStefano]

That. That's a great approach. But how long you been married, by the way?

[Caller]

62 years.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, that's phenomenal. That's amazing.

[Adam Schafer]

Champion.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. So what you would do, Bill, is you would pick maybe a couple, you know, three, maybe four exercises for each of those days. You would pick a weight that felt, you know, like you could, like, would challenge you a little bit, and you would do one arm. One arm, you know, one arm or one legged type exercises. So because of the discrepancy between right and left, a lot of the stuff that you should be doing is unilateral. Meaning instead of lifting with both arms, I'm doing one arm at a time. And if the set calls for, let's say, eight repetitions, what I may do is grab a little bit of a heavier weight. But I'm going to do one rep, place the weight down. I'm going to wait until I catch my breath and then do it again. Because if you go and start to lose oxygen, which will happen quickly with pulmonary fibrosis. Now you're working on stamina, which is okay, if that's what you want from the strength training. But I think what you want from the strength training is the muscle building, the reversal of sarcopenia. Plus you also run, which is giving you the endurance aspect. So the set's gonna look very different, Bill. It's gonna be one rep. You put it down, you wait, catch your breath, and then do it again. And so a set of 8 reps is going to be a lot longer than a traditional set because you're resting for a good 20, 30 seconds in between every rep.

[Adam Schafer]

I love that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Does that make sense?

[Caller]

And so I probably want a heavier weight than I'm doing for my 20 rep.

[Sal DeStefano]

So to give you an example, if I were, and I'm using arbitrary numbers because I don't know what you train with. But let's say I use a 20 pound dumbbell and I'm doing a shoulder press for eight reps. And let's say the eighth rep feels pretty challenging. What I would do is I would maybe go up to 25. But the. But I would do. I would put the. I would lift the weight, put it down, and I'd wait literally with the weight down, so not holding it, but placing it down and then waiting about 20 or 30 seconds and then doing another rep and you continue that set until you hit the target number of reps. Does that make sense?

[Caller]

Absolutely. The same thing on legs, squats and lunges.

[Sal DeStefano]

Correct.

[Caller]

So I can do. I can't do the squats with one leg. I try to find some other exercise like a squat. Why do one leg lunge?

[Adam Schafer]

A lunge or a step up would be great.

[Justin Andrews]

What kind of gym do you go to? Like, can you describe some of the equipment and all that?

[Caller]

It's my back bedroom.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, okay.

[Sal DeStefano]

All right. On. There's. There's nothing wrong with squats, Bill. I don't. I like squats and here's why. I like the unilateral work. So I think most of the work should be unilateral. But because you're. We are walking and running and both legs need to work together. Even though there's a strength discrepancy, it's still okay to do bilateral work with the lower body for some of your exercises. So don't get rid of squats. But the rest of the exercises I would like kind of like the split stance stuff like a lunge or a step up, or you get a low step and you step up and come down. You could hold dumbbells with that. If you need more weight since you're going to be resting, you know, 20, 30 seconds in between Each rep. So you come up, hold yourself, come back down, put the dumbbells down. Yeah. Catch your breath, and then do it again.

[Caller]

Well, what I'm doing today is I do four workouts a day. In the morning, making coffee. I'll stretch my back. I have lumbar stenosis, which most people my age have. So I do back exercises, have a cup of coffee with Patty, and after we're done coffee, we both come out and do qigong, which is kind of like tai chi.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, I know that.

[Caller]

Based on martial arts.

[Sal DeStefano]

Cool.

[Caller]

So I spent a lot of time in kung fu and karate. So after I've done that, then during the day I'll do my workout and I'll do my walk, run. I got a treadmill for that. And I've got right now two dumbbells. But what Harry is saying I should buy a third.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right. Yeah. You probably want to go a little heavier and just be conservative because you're now going to be going, you know, resting 20 to 30 seconds in between each rep.

[Caller]

As far as diet, what's your recommendations?

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay, so before I give you some recommendations, are there any. Anything I need to know about that would be contraindicated, like, are you on any special dietary restrictions from a doctor or anything like that?

[Caller]

I've lost. I hate to say this publicly, I've kind of lost faith in the medical community. The three things I have, they can't be cured or fixed. You live with them. Stroke, PF and sarcopenia. I wish there was a cure out there. So I. I run an exercise for my sarcopenia. I think I'm holding at bay. I can't do breathing exercises because I can't control that. But I've been lucky. I've been blessed because I haven't had significant changes in my lungs, even though it's been 15 years. The stroke is my big problem. You lose balance, you lose coordination, and I have muscle difference, disparity differences and my strength. So what you're saying is wise. It's wisdom. And good wisdom. I don't think, exercise wise, I'll do exactly what you say.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay, great. With diet, protein. The data shows that a high protein diet is even more beneficial as we get older.

[Caller]

So I strike that 1 gram per pound of body.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's excellent.

[Caller]

Yeah, I think I hit that.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's excellent. Make sure your diet's also got a decent amount of fiber. Well cooked vegetables, berries are great with that. Yep. I think you're. I think if you're already doing that, you're doing great.

[Caller]

Well, I. I tried keto, and I've been on paleo, so I'm maintaining it. A little more conservative, perhaps, but it's doable.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay. Did you go keto for any blood sugar reasons, or was it just because you wanted to lose weight?

[Caller]

I thought it'd be a faster way to gain muscle mass.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, no. Eat some carbohydrates.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Sweet potato rice. Some easily digestible starches will actually help you build muscle and strength and will give you some strength through your workouts. Yeah.

[Caller]

Well, this has been incredibly invaluable. I never thought about the do one rest, do another, and rest. That's a great strategy. I'll start to do that. Today is a test, and I get some heavier weights to challenge myself a little bit more.

[Sal DeStefano]

Bill, would you mind if we had you back on and, like.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, I'd love to. I'd love to check up on you, man.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, I'd love to have you back on the show in about 60 days just to see what's going on.

[Caller]

I'd like to do that. I like. It's always good to have a mentor looking over your shoulder and give you a little kick of the eye and then to keep it going.

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

You don't seem like. Like somebody I would need to kick in the butt. No, you seem like you're pretty. Pretty motivated. Yeah. Yeah. No, I appreciate you. I appreciate you calling in, too.

[Caller]

Well, my pleasure. And you guys doing a great job. My daughter, who's a super crossfit, all that stuff, and her boyfriend, the same. And I'm listening now to your show. So when will this be? I assume it's been next week, some point. Next week.

[Justin Andrews]

Tell you the date?

[Podcast Announcer]

Yeah, September 26th.

[Caller]

Okay, good.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Well, I've. I've got about 800 friends. They have strokes and about 200. 800,000, I should say, and about 250,000 that suffer with PF. I'll make sure most of them know about it.

[Sal DeStefano]

Right on. Wow.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, Bill, we'll stay. We're gonna stay in touch with you, man.

[Sal DeStefano]

Appreciate it. Thank you.

[Caller]

All right, guys. Thank you.

[Adam Schafer]

Great talking to you.

[Caller]

All right. Bye. Bye.

[Sal DeStefano]

You got it.

[Adam Schafer]

My dude, he's doing really good.

[Sal DeStefano]

My favorite. Yeah, you know, I didn't.

[Adam Schafer]

What. We didn't need to add any more to that because I think the advice you gave was already perfect. But I like the idea, though. The heavier weight with just, like, one rep. That's right. I'd even probably have him try and do, like, a hold for three to Five seconds at the end of that rep, like it would be a. Press the key, hold it for a couple seconds, set it down, rest.

[Sal DeStefano]

The key with that is just. Okay, this is true for any more true anaerobic. That's right. This is true for anybody who's strength training. You want to keep them anaerobic. That's what builds muscle. Now, the challenge with someone who has oxygen delivery issues is by rep3, he's.

[Adam Schafer]

Probably already getting a rope.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, that's the. The oxygen's not getting there, and it become something completely different. You don't feel good or whatever. So you're doing one rep, you're waiting, and you're doing another rep and you're waiting. Even long hold sometimes can cause that to happen.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, that's why it wouldn't be very long. Like three, five seconds at most.

[Sal DeStefano]

Stability.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

100. So I had some success with. With working out that way, and we saw great strength gains, whereas before it was like, what stopped us was the lack of oxygen. Yeah. And, you know, when you've got scarring in your lungs, it's like, you know, you can improve VO2 max through other methods, but because the lungs themselves are not very limited, especially if it's progressing over time, it's. It's very difficult.

[Justin Andrews]

I mean, respect to him for using free weight still. Like, that's great. That was impressive.

[Adam Schafer]

Super awesome, man.

[Podcast Announcer]

Our next caller is Benjamin from Texas.

[Sal DeStefano]

What's up, dude?

[Adam Schafer]

How you doing, Ben?

[Caller]

Hey, how you doing?

[Adam Schafer]

Good, good.

[Sal DeStefano]

How can we help you?

[Caller]

Yeah, so I shot an email a few weeks ago.

[Sal DeStefano]

I'll.

[Caller]

I'll break it down because it was kind of long winded, but I'm getting married in October, and I've just been having a really difficult time, I guess, just in general with health and fitness. Right now I'm 26, 6ft tall, about 180. I grew up, you know, doing sports and being pretty athletic and active all the time. And since graduating college a few years ago, I've sort of put on a little bit of weight that I'm just not used to, and it's been really hard to. To keep it off, especially going into my wedding. And so I've, you know, really what I feel like is dialed into health and fitness with watching what I eat, eating healthy. Me and my fiance go on a lot of long walks. I go to the gym when I can, and I'm just still not able to lose the weight, especially around my midsection. And I think in the last year especially, I've just kind of developed a unhealthy relationship with food. And, you know, that's kind of tied into a little bit of body dysmorphia. And then on top of all that, just getting inundated with, like, a. An overabundance of information online about what works and what doesn't in terms of health and fitness and what I need to be doing. You know, some saying working out five, six, seven days a week, others saying you only need to do a couple. Others doing, like, keto, others doing just whole foods and stuff. So it's just kind of a lot to parse through, and I was just hoping for a little bit of guidance on what. What's most important and how I can also tackle the mental challenge of not being too hard on myself and. And seeing myself, I think, as others see me.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, dude, I'm glad you mentioned the last part about the kind of the. The relationship feeling a bit dysfunctional. I could hear it right out the gates as you started talking. I mean, you're 6, 100. You're 6 foot, 180 pounds. You're. You're fine. Most people would say you're fit, but. Yeah, but this. This is not about what you're doing that's wrong or even what's right. This is about letting go. You're gonna have to let go of all that stuff. Now if your fear is, if you let go, that you're gonna somehow go in this crazy opposite direction, I mean, that. That may happen. It's unlikely. It's unlikely. What's more likely to happen is you'll. You'll feel more at peace. So fitness and good health should not feel stressful. It should not cause anxiety. It should not be an obsession. If it is, it's not healthy. This is no longer a healthy thing. This is an unhealthy thing. So what does this look like? What does this look like? Moving forward? You would strength train two days a week, full body. You would continue walking. You wouldn't weigh yourself. You would stop studying yourself in the mirror, and you would try focusing on things that are higher and bigger than the workouts and the diet. And so you would just not focus on those things. Don't count macros. Don't, you know, eat when you're hungry, Try to, you know, eat things that are all natural and then. And then take your focus off of it because you're, You're. You're in the midst of it right now. I can tell. And definitely the wedding date is adding this other kind of pressure, which is undue. And I'm gonna tell you this right now. You're gonna get married. You're gonna be a husband. You'll probably have some kids. And. And those things are far, far, far more important than, you know, 5 or 10 pounds of body fat that you. You might.

[Caller]

Right.

[Sal DeStefano]

Think you have or. Which you probably. You're probably good, dude. So you got to let go of those things. And, yeah, really commit to, like, two days a week of strength training and then just stay active and then take your eyes off.

[Caller]

That's all.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's it, dude. Take your eyes off of this.

[Adam Schafer]

Eat. Eat your protein first. So when you sit down at a meal, eat the protein first. Stick to whole foods. I saw in your email, too. Absolutely. Do not do 75 hard. No, that's the opposite direction. Okay. Opposite. It's not. The last thing you need to do is a thing that's like super hard and regimen and tons of stuff every single day. It doesn't take very much, okay. To send a signal for your body to build muscle. If you strength train two full body a week, maybe three max, and you walk and you eat your protein first and you eat whole foods, it'll take care of the rest. It literally will. Yeah, that's it. You don't need to obsess over this. You don't need to get crazy and do a ton extra stuff. Just focus on those three things that we're talking about and it'll do. It'll do the rest.

[Sal DeStefano]

And honestly, just take your eyes off this dude. Like, yeah, you go to the gym a couple days a week, full body, compound lifts. And then don't think about it and just take your eyes off of it because you're going down a path that's going to be. It's going to get worse. So we have to do is disconnect. So just take your eyes off of it and focus on things that are bigger. Focus on your future wife, you know, maybe whatever you're doing for work and career, what it's gonna look like when we have kids. You know, if you have a spiritual practice, focus on that. Cause that's bigger than you. And just take your eyes off of this right now. Because this has become a tyrannical, you know, for lack of a better term. God, that is just. Yeah. It's beating you down. I can tell. I could tell right when you started talking.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. I'd love to have Doug put you in our private for. So we can help you through this process that way as you're going through it. And then do you have any of the programs yet?

[Caller]

I don't. I. I actually just had chat GPT do like a full body thing.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay, we'll send you maps.

[Sal DeStefano]

Anabolic.

[Adam Schafer]

We'll send you maps.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, just do the, do the two day a week version. That's your workout. Yeah, that's what you're going to do in the gym and you'll get stronger. You're going to get stronger with that program and the rest of the time just stay active but make the activity non workout activity. In other words, if your wife or, sorry if your fiance likes to hike or walk or bike, that's your activity. So make it relational, make it pro relational activity for your exercise. That way it's not all focused on the workout. It's more like, oh man, I'm enjoying.

[Justin Andrews]

This thing with, let's just get up and move around.

[Sal DeStefano]

Do something fun.

[Adam Schafer]

I like to have some accountability with you too. So I'd like to hear from you in the forum at least every other week. Just check in with us. And the things I care about is energy, strength, how you're feeling. I don't care how you look, I don't care about your weight. I want to know if you're getting stronger in the gym and, and how you feel and just check in with us.

[Sal DeStefano]

How's your fiance with fitness and all this stuff?

[Caller]

She's, she's super into it. She, she works out a lot. She goes to Solidcore and loves that. Like I said, we go on a lot of long walks. We've just moved back from Los Angeles so we were able to go on a little bit longer walks when it wasn't 110 degrees. But yeah, we still love going on walks. I think we're both just full gear like stress from the wedding. Like I said, we just. So we just moved back from LA to Texas to be back with our family. But along with that came new jobs. The wedding's in a month so it's just like a lot, a lot of change all at once. And I think we're both just kind of in the thick of it right now. But not to sound like corny, it's like couldn't imagine doing it without her and I feel, I would say that she does feel the same. So I think like you guys said, just kind of taking a step back and leaning in to that and like focusing on the fact that maybe if I'm not eating perfect every day it's because I'm going to my in laws house and we're having a big Dinner together.

[Sal DeStefano]

Dude.

[Adam Schafer]

That's right.

[Caller]

Getting this from my friends that I haven't seen in years.

[Adam Schafer]

That's right.

[Justin Andrews]

Important.

[Adam Schafer]

Far more important.

[Caller]

So we've been trying to.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Take a deep breath.

[Caller]

Yeah, go ahead.

[Sal DeStefano]

You're about to marry. You're about to marry the woman you're going to spend the rest of your life with and have kids with and do life with. It's an amazing, amazing step. And this. Take your eyes off of this. You go to the gym, and then when you're done with the gym, you don't think about it anymore and just focus on the relationships around you. Those are the things that are going to last the longest. You're getting married in October. You guys want a honeymoon?

[Caller]

We are. We're pushing our honeymoon back to March just so we can save up for a little bit more.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay.

[Caller]

But we're very excited. We're actually going to Tahiti.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, good for you.

[Caller]

The only time either of us are maybe ever gonna go there.

[Sal DeStefano]

But we're.

[Caller]

We're going. Going bigger. Going home for the honeymoon, which we're excited for.

[Sal DeStefano]

Good for you, Ben. Can we have you both on the show after you get married? I'd love to talk to you guys in October after you guys get married. Have you guys.

[Caller]

Absolutely. I'd love that.

[Sal DeStefano]

All right, dude. Yeah, let's do that. I'll have my assistant reach out. We'll have you and your fiance on at the time. She'll be your. Your. Why, Your bride. Your bride. Your. Your wife at that time. So.

[Caller]

Yes, sir.

[Sal DeStefano]

Let's talk.

[Caller]

Appreciate it.

[Adam Schafer]

Check it. Check in with us in the Forum. Doug's sending you maps in A block, and we're sending you access to the Forum. So check in with us. Just let us know you're doing it every couple weeks, okay?

[Caller]

Absolutely. I appreciate you guys.

[Sal DeStefano]

All right.

[Caller]

And I know. I know you guys are men of faith, so I don't know if you wouldn't mind me asking, if you could just keep me and my fiance in your prayers or a prayer or anything like that, I would. I would really appreciate it.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, done deal. What's her name?

[Caller]

Her name's Hannah.

[Sal DeStefano]

All right, man, no problem.

[Caller]

Thanks, guys. I really appreciate it.

[Adam Schafer]

You got it, man.

[Sal DeStefano]

Thanks, man.

[Justin Andrews]

Take care, dude.

[Sal DeStefano]

I could hear it right as you start talking. Yeah, yeah, he's six one. He's six foot, 180 pounds, and he's like, I got this fat I can't get rid of. Like, oh, yeah, no, I hear. I know exactly what that feels like. Yeah. And it's yeah, it's a nasty. But you know, but you got. You take your eyes off of it, you do it, but then don't think about it.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

And then it starts to lose its.

[Adam Schafer]

Otherwise it. It turns into a hardcore strict resist and then it goes to bench, hardcore restrict and resist and then binge. It's like in with all the other things.

[Sal DeStefano]

Nothing good comes out of it.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Yeah. Nothing good comes out of that. So I hope he checks in every couple weeks on the forum and then. And stays with us with that. But I. You can tell he's guys carrying the weight of the world on his shoulders, man.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yep.

[Podcast Announcer]

Our next color is Daniel from Iowa.

[Sal DeStefano]

How's it going, Daniel?

[Adam Schafer]

How you doing, Daniel?

[Justin Andrews]

What's up, man?

[Caller]

Awesome. It's great to get to talk to you guys. Hopefully you guys can help me out.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. How can we help you? Sure.

[Caller]

Well, I've been working out pretty consistently kind of my, my entire life, but I'd say over the past nine, ten months after, after a workout, whatever muscle part I'm focused on for the day, about 30 or 40 minutes after I'm done exercising, I, I just experienced like pretty severe cramps in that area. And it can like this simplest movement. Like I was driving home from work and I had my left hand on the steering wheel. I switched to my right hand. My pec just freezes up. I had to pull over to the side of the road it like two minutes just to get it to where I could like use my muscle again. And then I have to be pretty conscious about it for the rest of the night, like all the way until the next day. I wake up, sudden movements will just freeze my muscles up. And I've tried a few different things and I just, nothing seems to help at all. So it just keeps happening.

[Sal DeStefano]

And this just like. When did this start happening?

[Caller]

It's about, about 10 months. It's been going on about 10 months.

[Sal DeStefano]

And before that you didn't have this issue?

[Caller]

Not to this extent. Like a lot. When I was younger, I do pull ups and for some reason I get cramps in the bottom of my foot. But like, I could just eat a banana and good to go. I was, I would be fine. But yeah, about 10 months and it's gotten pretty.

[Sal DeStefano]

You've tried sodium, magnesium, water? You've tried all that?

[Caller]

Yes.

Yep.

[Sal DeStefano]

Have you had blood work done to look at things like kidney function, liver function?

[Caller]

I, I have had my blood work done. They did notice that maybe the. There was something going on with the kidneys. I'm not really sure. And potential for the liver. I went back in and got it redone after that, and they said it all looked pretty good, but it's, it's still a problem.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, it's. I would, I would keep, I would go back to the doctor and just get, make sure that everything's going on, is okay with how electrolyte system is working, how the cells are communicating. Typically, with a client that would experience cramping, we would have sodium, you know, a little bit of potassium, but mostly sodium before, during, and after workout. And we would finish a workout with 15 minutes of static stretching of the muscle, where you're slow breathing, holding that stretch post workout. That's. That would be the typical thing that I would do with a client that has somebody's cramping. This will happen sometimes to somebody who's deconditioned, and then they start training a body part again and they'll get cramping. But the fact that you've been working out this whole time and it kind of suddenly started happening, I would go, I would go see another medical professional just to make sure that there's nothing that is underlying that we haven't identified.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Yeah. I wish I could give you, you know, better advice.

[Adam Schafer]

Is there anything. The only other thing I can think of is just, like, really severely over training right now, like, doing anything out of the normal as far as, like, routine training work. What. What's going on?

[Caller]

I don't think so.

I'm, I probably even lowered it a little bit. I, when I, when I do exercise, body parts typically, like two exercises.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay. Yeah.

[Caller]

Same day, I do two chest exercises, two back exercises. I'm in there for just under an hour. So I, I don't think I'm really overdoing it.

[Adam Schafer]

No, not too much.

[Caller]

I, I, I don't want to waste my time while I'm in the gym. So I do tend to try and go as heavy as possible. I think I'm in there, like, too much.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, yeah. And you don't get cramps in the muscles? You don't train?

[Caller]

Not generally, no.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay. No.

[Caller]

That's about a day. And then, you know, the next morning it'll be all right. But if I am not conscious with that muscle, they'll just, like, seize up. My bicep will just seize up, and I can't use it for three or four minutes, and then just, I have to pay attention to it. So I use it in the smallest fashion, and it'll just go right back.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, the, the first, the Person I would go. I would get general blood work, which it sounds like you did. And then the person I would go to first would be a neurologist. Yeah. And just. Just. I would start there just to see if they can find anything. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

We gotta figure this out.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I wish I could give you more.

[Adam Schafer]

I'd love to hear back after you do that. Daniel, anytime we have somebody who we can't give the. For sure answer right away. I'm always so curious if we get to the bottom of this.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Yeah, I can do that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

I appreciate that. And then we'll have you back on. We can talk about it so we can help anybody else that potentially is going through the same thing.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay. All right.

[Caller]

Yeah, I appreciate it. Thanks a lot.

[Sal DeStefano]

Thank you. Yeah. Interesting.

[Justin Andrews]

How's the conundrum?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, that's. It's a. You just want to make sure there's nothing neurologically going on. Exactly.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. He's. If he's. If he's hydrating, he's taking the sodium. He's not over training.

[Justin Andrews]

I didn't ask if he's sweating normal. Like, I don't know if that's, you know, much of a factor.

[Sal DeStefano]

Some medications, something. Sometimes medication. So I shouldn't ask him if he started any new medication. Sometimes that can cause. Could also be nerve impingement or some kind of a neurological.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. But most likely, if it's. That it would be on the same side consistently or whatever. Like that.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's muscle. That's being. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Muscle that's being worked.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Yeah. And they're. And they're called, you know, calcium, magnesium, sodium, potassium. Like, these are the nutrients or some neurological. Or too much. Sometimes too much can cause stuff like this. So if his body's not getting rid of calcium, you know, enough. But, you know, I would go neurologist because they would see that typically in a general blood test. Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

I hope we hear back. Whenever we have somebody that I feel like we. We can't figure it out, I want to know.

[Justin Andrews]

It's not that often frustrating.

[Podcast Announcer]

Our next caller is Nora from Minnesota.

[Sal DeStefano]

Hi, Nora.

[Justin Andrews]

Hi, Nora.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, it's fun. How can we help you?

[Caller]

Okay, perfect. Well, longtime listener here, thank you for the years of solid, no BS Advice that's kept me grounded through my fitness journey and phases, including my pregnancy. At 41, I gained only what was needed was back in my jeans a week postpartum. And my doctor even skipped routine geriatric testing because my baby and I were so healthful or so healthy that mindset Came largely from what I learned from you guys. So thank you. Now at 45, I'm in perimenopause. I am on HRT. It's going great. I love testosterone. I love progesterone, and I'm still fully committed to lifting. I've made the shift from grinding away on my pillow, Pelton tread and bike to heavy lifting with a squat rack purchased a few years ago. So thanks for your influence, and I haven't looked back since. That said, I'm in uncharted territory. So social media is flooding me with messages that midsection weight is basically unavoidable for women in the stage of life. And honestly, it's chipping away at my motivation. I'm seeing changes only around my waist, and it's got me wondering, is this just what happens now, or are there things that I can actually control? So I'd love to hear your take on what's actually going on with fat distribution during perimenopause. What can I realistically do to continue feeling strong and confident in my body? And how do I shut down the narrative that change and progress are just out of reach right now? Thanks for everything you guys have helped me with so far. I truly trust your approach and would love some guidance in this next chapter.

[Sal DeStefano]

Thank you. Thank you. I love your question. Okay, so before I answer your question, I'll ask you a question. Is that okay? Okay. Okay. What are you gonna tell your kid about social media?

[Caller]

Right. Yeah. Well, hopefully she never sees it.

[Sal DeStefano]

All right, so. Yeah, turn it off. Don't let it affect you in that way. It's just. It's full of crap. Like, so much of the information on there, especially to women, especially to women, is so terrible and so damaging and make somebody like you who's fit and healthy. You don't look 45. You look exceptional. I can tell you're lean. You're probably, and I would bet money, being very over critical of yourself. And so that's just not. It's just not. It's not true. It's not true. Now, does body fat distribution change as we go get older? It does, but we get older. What can affect that? Hormones. Now you're on hormone replacement therapy, so that will. That will have an impact on body fat distribution. Okay. Okay. So how long have you been on it?

[Caller]

For better or for worse?

[Sal DeStefano]

For better. How long have you been on it?

[Caller]

For about nine months now.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. So you'll start to notice changes probably soon. A year. Two inch? Yeah. So testosterone, progesterone. You could take a Peptide for growth hormone release, like Tessa, Marilyn. That can also make a difference. And so that'll help with body fat distribution. Because the changes in hormone profile is why you see this sudden change in body fat distribution in women where it's like less on the hips and thighs and then more suddenly around the midsection. Yeah.

[Caller]

Right.

[Sal DeStefano]

Now, aside from that, because you're doing the hormone replacement therapy, so you've got that covered. Aside from that, the goal is like what we talk about on the show. Get strong, build strength, build muscle. When's the last time you went on a calorie surplus for yourself?

[Caller]

It's a good question. You know, I've got obviously a young kid around, so I feel like I am on a calorie surplus, like eating, you know, all these additional toddler snacks that have been around, although I've been slowly eliminating them out of the household and that whatnot. But probably one where it's actually been like focused and dedicated. I don't know that I've ever done that.

[Sal DeStefano]

I knew that. I asked you that question. The answer, yes, I knew the answer to that. Let's put you on a calorie surplus. Let's reverse diet you and build some muscle. By the way, that helps with fat loss.

[Adam Schafer]

Got to get you in our muscle mommy group if you're not in there or not. Have you, have you joined?

[Caller]

Okay, I am not.

[Adam Schafer]

You've got to get in there. We're on there every day right now for this seven day kind of kickoff for it. And so, well, the link is musclemommymovement.com Just go, go in there, take the quiz. And it doesn't matter what program of ours you're following. It's literally just for women that are trying to build muscle and be healthy and fit.

[Sal DeStefano]

And so if you went in a calorie surplus, a nice controlled one, you know, like 300 calories above maintenance, hitting your protein targets, not going zero carb. Right. Having some carbs with it because you need that energy and that fuel eating adequate fats. What you're going to see is great changes in the body, especially on testosterone. You're going to build muscle through that process. You'll get probably leaner, the shape will change. Building muscle is like the magic formula for almost everything, but you got to feed it. Do you have any idea how many calories you eat regularly Now?

[Caller]

I am probably in that like 2000-20, 200 calorie range.

[Sal DeStefano]

So I would track. Now don't get carried away with tracking. I get the impression that if I had you track all the time. That would also.

[Caller]

Cause I. I used to. I used to. A few years ago, pre. Baby, I used to track.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay.

[Caller]

Significantly.

[Sal DeStefano]

Get an idea of what you're averaging right now. Okay. And then go 300 calories above that, and then hit your protein first and aim for that target. Don't get carried away, though, with the tracking. Okay? So once you get a general idea of what that looks like, then let go of it and just kind of eat around that. And then monitor your strength. If you're getting strong in the gym, you're doing great. You're crushing. By the way, the other thing that affects body fat distribution is insulin sensitivity or insulin resistance. Okay. Hormone replacement therapy helps with that. But something that helps the most with that is building muscle. Okay? Building muscle makes us so sensitive to insulin. And so that also helps a lot with body fat distribution. In fact, when you look at women who've strength trained properly and fed themselves and built muscle, like, I'm talking about, like, women who really chase strength, then went through perimenopause and menopause, they often don't run into body fat distribution challenges. They might have a little bit, but not like the average woman. And they don't. And many of them don't go on hormone replacement therapy. It's the muscle.

[Caller]

Oh, interesting.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's the muscle that makes a big difference. So I would go surplus, get stronger, and turn off social media. Nora, you're doing great. Yeah. You're doing really good.

[Adam Schafer]

Do you have one of our maps programs yet?

[Caller]

I do, yes. I've got. I'm trying to think here. Whatever the basic one is.

[Adam Schafer]

Anabolic.

[Caller]

Yes, exactly. Yes, I have that one.

[Sal DeStefano]

Do you have maps? Muscle Mommy.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, she'll get it. She'll get it when she goes in the group.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, get in the group, and you'll have the group.

[Adam Schafer]

And it has. It has it in there. So you have it.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay.

[Caller]

Perfect.

[Adam Schafer]

Awesome.

[Caller]

Yes. All right, I'll do.

[Adam Schafer]

We'll be looking for you tonight. Yeah, we're gonna be. We'll be on there. So I'll be looking for you.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay, fair enough. All right. Thanks for calling in.

[Adam Schafer]

All right, Nora.

[Caller]

Thanks, guys. Very helpful.

[Sal DeStefano]

You got it. Social media sucks, man.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, I know.

[Sal DeStefano]

It makes me so mad.

[Justin Andrews]

So exhausting.

[Sal DeStefano]

I mean, she's obviously fit.

[Adam Schafer]

You can tell she's fit.

[Sal DeStefano]

She looks great, right? She's got a kid. And it's like. It's like, I'm getting flooded. You can hear the verbiage, right? I'm getting flooded with all this stuff on social media and I'm getting so worried. It's like, oh my God. It really distorts our perception.

[Adam Schafer]

I mean, how, how common is that though for our female clients that feel like they have a little bit, you know, 5 to 10 or 15 pounds they want to lose and so they're right on. But they're relatively fittingly. But they've stayed relatively fit because they've kept their calories low for so long and they've never really gone on a bulk because they think in their head, well, I need to lose just five to 15 pounds, why would I go on a bulk? And I'm just struggling to get this. And like, this is what will help someone like this so much is to go. And by the way, everybody, I wouldn't say everybody, but a large portion of the women we have, we have over 400 women in there right now. This is what they're kind of going through because many of them have never done like a proper reverse diet and they need to build muscle even though their goal is to lose body fat, that many of them need to reverse diet first. And so she'll fit right in with a lot of what's going on. Totally.

[Sal DeStefano]

Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram @mindpump media. I'll see you there.

[Podcast Announcer]

Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB super [e-mail] the RGB Super Bundle includes maps and above maps, performance and maps aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, the RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price.

[Justin Andrews]

The RGB.

[Podcast Announcer]

The RGB super bundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee and you can get it now. Plus other valuable free [e-mail] if you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review on itunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is Mind Pump.