2703: Best Ways to Strength Train Without Weights or Machines

Summary

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Mind Pump Ep. 2703 Summary: "Best Ways to Strength Train Without Weights or Machines"

Hosts: Sal Di Stefano, Adam Schafer, Justin Andrews, Doug Egge
Date: October 10, 2025

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Main Theme

This episode tackles one of the most common fitness questions: How can you effectively strength train without access to conventional gym equipment like weights or machines? The Mind Pump crew discusses science-backed methods, practical tools, and mindset strategies for building strength using minimal equipment—or just your body. They also dive into topics of community, consistency, recovery, and the evolving role of technology in fitness.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Train Without Weights or Machines?

• Necessity breeds creativity: Many find themselves without equipment due to circumstances (e.g., travel, busy gyms, limited home space).
• Sal: “As a trainer, you really got to figure this out because... you will have clients that don’t have access to lots of equipment.” (04:23)

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2. Top Tools for Equipment-Free Strength Training

A. Suspension Trainers (e.g., TRX)

• Benefits:
  • Highly portable, minimal storage needs.
  • Suitable for beginners and advanced users; easily scales in intensity.
  • Exceptional for upper body; slightly more limited for legs.
• Adam: “You can use it outside off a tree… inside… it is so versatile.” (06:16)
• Skill progression: Assists with single-leg exercises (e.g., pistol squats) by allowing regression and gradual progression.

B. Resistance Bands

• Reputation shift: Once relegated to rehab, now recognized for serious strength results—especially after adoption by elite powerlifters.
• Advantages:
  • Progressive resistance (hardest at peak contraction).
  • Less recovery required compared to free weights or chains.
  • Highly versatile, attachable at various angles for different movements.
  • Travel-friendly; “you could literally do it in a phone booth.” (14:35)
• Sal: “With bands, I can do a ton. I could train my whole body almost every day with good intensity… and recover." (13:44)

C. Bodyweight Training (Calisthenics)

• Progression spectrum: Can be simple or extremely advanced (e.g., levers, flagpoles); huge bar-based community online.
• Unique benefits:
  • Develops unmatched body awareness and intrinsic control.
  • High carryover to athletics (esp. grappling sports).
  • Lower joint stress, better recovery profile.
• Sal: “Their body awareness is on another level.” (15:54)

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3. How Far Can You Go with Minimal Equipment?

• With bands, a suspension trainer, a set of adjustable dumbbells, and a good plan, “you could build a hell of a physique, a balanced physique, a strong physique.” (18:26)
• Sal: Emphasizes the importance of community over equipment for consistency: “Some of the best gyms… have the worst, oldest equipment. That’s a fact.” (24:46)

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4. Community & Consistency

• Biggest predictor of consistency: Community, whether in-home (with friends/spouse) or in the gym.
• Shift in gym culture: Less in-person engagement than in past decades, but even passive communal presence helps motivation.
• Stories of people maintaining amazing results with daily calisthenics routines at home (push-ups, pull-ups, etc.).

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5. Mindset: Simplicity over Novelty

• Sal: “Simplicity wins. But it’s rare people... Some of the most consistent gyms have the worst, oldest equipment.” (24:27)
• Overcomplicating equipment can be a distraction; mastering minimalism offers huge benefits.

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6. Notable Examples

• Herschel Walker’s routine: 1,500-2,000 pushups, 3,000-5,000 sit-ups per day—proof that bodyweight alone can build an elite physique. (25:01)

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7. Science Nugget: Red Light Therapy and Muscle Gains (33:06)

• Sal: Cites studies where adding red light therapy to strength training led to “20 to 50% greater hypertrophy than exercise alone.”
• Referenced a twin study: 12 weeks of resistance training with red light yielded “50% greater quad hypertrophy.”
• Sal: “As if I needed to sell red light therapy any better...” (32:50)

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8. Technology Tangent: AI in Fitness and Life (40:00)

• Discussion on AI “hallucinations”—when large language models generate convincing falsehoods.
• AI as a double-edged sword for knowledge and personal agency; risk of over-outsource critical thinking and decision-making.
• Predictions that, as AI-generated content outpaces the real, in-person community and experiences will become even more valuable.

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9. Listener Q&A (From 56:07 Onward)

Each question is answered in a science-backed, practical, and conversational format:

Q1 (56:07): Progressive overload—more than recently, or all-time PRs?

• Summary: Week-to-week improvement is the focus, not constantly outdoing past PRs, since skill/conditioning fluctuate (Sal, 57:32; Adam, 57:32).

Q2 (58:34): First set heavy or light?

• Summary: Generally ramp up from lighter to heavier for joint/skill prep. Reverse pyramids are okay but carry higher risk; not a strict rule (Adam, 59:20).

Q3 (61:04): Does bedtime matter if you get 8 hours?

• Summary: Consistency is more important than actual time, but aligning sleep with natural circadian rhythms yields better health. Night shift sleep, even if consistent, has drawbacks (Doug, 61:15; Sal, 61:27).

Q4 (62:08): Lose fat vs. build muscle—what first?

• Summary: Build muscle first, especially if calories are already low. Reverse diet up, raise metabolism, then cut. This is an easier, more sustainable fat loss route (Sal, 62:32; Adam, 63:06).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Sal: “What makes strength training, strength training is resistance… enough tension, which can be created through angles or minimal equipment, and then rest periods.” (19:01)
• Justin: “I had that experience… all my trainers had to figure out how to train clients without anything. And they did exceptionally well.” (04:54)
• Adam: “With one set of bands, one suspension trainer, and one pair of dumbbells… you could get years of getting strong and fit aesthetically… I think our space does such a bad job of over-complicating things.” (18:13)
• Doug: “Some people can catch fire from that [home calisthenics] direction. I don’t think it’s a lot of people.” (23:51)
• Sal: “Community is the strongest correlate for consistency… I think that’s more important than the equipment.” (21:39, 24:29)

Red Light Therapy Memorable Moment:

• Sal: “There was a… study. 2010. 20 untrained males… red light therapy before sessions on the elbow flexors… 50% greater bicep hypertrophy and strength gains versus placebo.” (34:19)

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Important Timestamps

| Time | Segment/Topic | |-----------|-------------------------------------------------------------------| | 04:21 | Starting the main topic: training without weights or machines | | 05:00–11:00 | Suspension trainers: benefits, origins, limitations | | 11:03–16:00 | Bands: evolution, recovery, versatility | | 14:51–17:53 | Bodyweight/calisthenics: progression, benefits, examples | | 19:01–24:46 | Minimalist home gym, community, and consistency | | 25:01 | Herschel Walker’s extreme calisthenics routine example | | 32:50–35:00 | Red light therapy: hypertrophy studies and protocols | | 40:00–52:00 | AI, technology, misinformation, social trends | | 56:07–65:25 | Listener Q&A: progressive overload, workout structuring, sleep, recomposition focus |

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Tone & Language

• Conversational, playful, and direct: True to Mind Pump’s reputation, the conversation is peppered with anecdotes, banter, and the hosts’ characteristic humor.
• Science-forward but accessible: Evidence and practical experience are combined; complex concepts are explained with real-life analogies.

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Summary Takeaways

• You don’t need a gym to get strong.
  • Suspension trainers, bands, and bodyweight exercises can provide a nearly limitless path for building strength, muscle, and athleticism.
• Skill and consistency often beat equipment.
  • Building routine, community (even digital), and progressive mastery are what produce results—equipment just alters the path.
• Recovery and tech matter, but context is key.
  • Tools like red light therapy seem promising; AI is powerful—use with awareness and skepticism.
• Simplicity and consistency win over complexity and novelty.
• Build muscle first for easier fat loss and focus on maintaining a high-calorie, strong metabolism before cutting.

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For more: Find Mind Pump at mindpumpmedia on Instagram or visit mindpumppodcast.com

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Transcript

[Sal Destefano]

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[Sal Destefano]

You want to Pump your body and expand your mind. There's only one place to go. Mind Pump. Mind Pump. With your hosts Sal Destefano, Adam Schaefer and Justin Andrews, you just found the most downloaded fitness, health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump. Today's episode we answered listeners questions that we picked from mind pump media on Instagram. So that's where people post their questions. We answered four of them. This was after the intro. Today's intro is 52 minutes long. In the intro we talk about fat loss and muscle gain, strength training, cardio. We talk about all kinds of stuff. Nutrition, current events. It's a good time. Again. Mind pump media on Instagram. That's where you can post your questions now. This episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is joovv. This is red light therapy. Today I talk about studies showing it boosts muscle growth. One study by 50%, which is wild. Go check them out. Go to Joovv.com that's J-O-O-V-V.com mindpump. Use the code mindpump. Get $50 off your purchase. This episode is also brought to you by Caldera Lab. They have a new product called the great, which uses exosomes. It dramatically improves the absorption of the compounds in the face serums. So it works really, really well. It's great technology. Go check them out. Go to calderalab.com that's C-A-L--E-R-A L A B.com. use the code MINDPUMP20. Get 20% off. We also have a sale this month, Maps GLP1. This workout program that also has diet advice and lifestyle guidance is designed for people who are using a GLP1, right? So if you're using Ozempic, WeGovy, Semaglutide, Tirzepatide. You want to maximize fat loss. You want to keep your muscle, maybe build some muscle, speed up your metabolism, make it work. This program is designed specifically for you and it's half off. Go check it out. Go to mapsglp1.com, use the code GLP50 for the 50% off discount. Here comes the show. All right, so you're convinced strength training is amazing, and that is true, but you don't have access to weights or machines. Are you screwed? No, not really. There are other ways to strength train. We're going to talk about our favorite ways to strength train without weights or machines. Here we go.

[Doug Egge]

Prison style.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Right, guys?

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, this is actually as a trainer, you really got to figure this out because you will have clients, especially if you grow your business outside of your. The gym that you're in and scale, you will have clients that don't have access to lots of equipment.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, I thought you're gonna go the other direction. You remember the days when you used to train at 5 o' clock at night on a Tuesday?

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, and all the equipment. Yeah, that also.

[Adam Schafer]

And you used to go over.

[Sal Destefano]

Yes.

[Adam Schafer]

And get a mat, a couple dumbbells in a little corner.

[Sal Destefano]

You do everything.

[Adam Schafer]

Train. I train five clients don't even leave.

[Doug Egge]

Yeah, that's your corner.

[Sal Destefano]

Actually, I had that experience. Grand grand opening, the Santa Teresa 24 Fitness Club 497. I don't know I remember that. But anyway, that club. The grand opening took forever and the. There were no weights for a long time was just cardio and I think basketball was there and everything, but there was no weights. And so all my trainers had to figure out how to train clients without anything. And they did exceptionally well without having to use most equipment. So let's talk about some favorite ways to strength train. For me personally, I love. And I love this for a lot of different reasons, but I love suspension trainers. I like suspension trainers because it's an appropriate piece of equipment. First off, it takes up no space, super inexpensive. So you can fit it in a drawer so you can wrap it up. It's like this big. They're durable, so they last a long time. But it's an appropriate piece of equipment for advanced or beginners. Yeah, it's one of those few pieces of equipment that you could use on your beginner clients or somebody universal.

[Doug Egge]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Super strong. You can make exercises, especially upper body exercises, really challenging.

[Doug Egge]

Well, you can crank the intensity or decrease the intensity pretty easily just by adjusting your angles and usage of it. And so it comes in handy. Handy for so many different exercises.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. You can use it outside off of a tree.

[Sal Destefano]

Yep.

[Adam Schafer]

You can use it inside attachment on the garage door. I mean there's so. It's like. It is so versatile and you can make it. About the only thing I would say it's limited is legs. Yes, that is the. And even. And by the way, I know you can do some things on it that are really. Especially hamstring stuff. It's really challenging. But for the most part, legs are probably the greatest challenge. But besides that, it is an incredible.

[Sal Destefano]

I would have to say across the board, one of the hardest things to train if you really want to build a lot of muscle in your legs. Yeah. Is going to be legs. Right. Because the amount of resistance that's required.

[Doug Egge]

But there are.

[Sal Destefano]

But can you build muscle and develop very fit, strong sculpted legs without weights? You can, yeah. There's lots of one legged exercise.

[Doug Egge]

Got to do single leg. Yeah. I mean that's really the, the only way you can intensify to the degree where your muscles are gonna get that kind of stimulus.

[Adam Schafer]

And to that point, what's cool about the suspension trainer is like most people, not everybody, but most people that are relatively new can't even do a one single leg squat.

[Sal Destefano]

No. Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

But if you have the suspension trainer.

[Sal Destefano]

Yes.

[Adam Schafer]

You can regress that and you could hold the suspension trainer and support your, your body and go down say a quarter of the way and then work up to half the way and then work down to deep ones and then work out to multiple reps. And during that process of regressing all the way down to a quarter squat with one leg and then eventually full range of squats to multiple squats, single leg, Bulgarian.

[Doug Egge]

With your foot in the straps, you.

[Adam Schafer]

Will build some legs.

[Sal Destefano]

Difficult exercise. You will. And that's why again, why I like the suspension trainer, you can make the exercises incredibly difficult. I mean, the inspiration, I have to guess, I don't know this for sure, but let me guess that the inspiration for the suspension trainers were gymnastics rings. Sure, that's, that's a pretty good guess, right? I don't know if that's 100%, but I'm pretty sure the guy who invented them saw Olympic ring rings.

[Doug Egge]

A little bit of controversy there, but yeah, yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

And the challenging, I mean, Olympic rings are among some of those challenging pieces of equipment that gymnasts use. And I would say they're largely responsible for some of the incredible upper body development that you'll see with gymnasts. In fact, I had, there's a viral video we did years ago. Yeah. Why gymnasts have such big biceps.

[Adam Schafer]

You know the guy that you made the video of actually, remember, made a comment.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, yeah, same guy. So. And there's a guy that's in the video with these crazy looking gymnasts, by the way. Of course, at the top level, you know, the of, of sports, you have body types that are also genetically gifted for that sport. And what do you need for gymnastics? You got to be kind of small, but you also have to have really, really like good muscle development and strength. Right. That's what makes you a good gymnast. So of course they're going to be at that level. But nonetheless, gymnasts tend to have pretty well developed biceps and they don't do curls and the video went viral because I said they do lots of pull ups. Well, gymnasts actually went on there and said that's actually not the most. That's not why our biceps are so big. It's because of the. What is it called? The Iron cross.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, the isometrical.

[Doug Egge]

Yeah, that's super tense, range tense.

[Sal Destefano]

I could see that really blowing up your biceps because of the isometric contraction, that stretch position.

[Adam Schafer]

Where is the origin of the suspension trainer? You looking that up over there? Well, I'm so curious to what that is.

[Doug Egge]

Okay, so, so what, what was the other one called? It was out of Chicago, but there was like jungle gym I believe started out. And so there's controversy with that. But like, so the actual owner of TRX was inspired, was on leave or on like a. Basically overseas on some kind of active duty and used straps so use like seatbelt straps and was able to kind of tie it off to tanks and jeeps. And they started to be able to use these straps to, to get good upper body exercising. And so they kind of used that as a way to supplement, you know, while they were out on duty to be able to still kind of do calisthenics and exercise.

[Sal Destefano]

So that's the story.

[Doug Egge]

That's the story.

[Sal Destefano]

That's actually cooler than what I said. Yeah, but, but I mean rings have existed for a long time. I know that that's been a piece of equipment that the gymnasts have had to use.

[Adam Schafer]

It's really taken over because before that what was popular was bands. Bands would be the traditional, I would say piece of equipment that you travel with at home or whatever to say right here. There it is. Navy seal.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. And then there was a. There was a formal professional soccer player in Chile. Discovered an ancient Indian conditioning system that utilized ropes. That just sounds more exotic.

[Doug Egge]

That sounds.

[Sal Destefano]

You want to sell a product.

[Doug Egge]

I know you want to go that angle. Always the ancient.

[Adam Schafer]

Is that right reference CRX is still a 60 million dollar business.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh yeah. Wow, that's huge.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

I mean you could buy something.

[Doug Egge]

They're so convenient. I mean they really did a good job of manufacturing.

[Sal Destefano]

But it's a great piece of strength training equipment and you can create tremendous resistance using them. Now you mentioned another one, Adam, which is bands. Yeah, and you know, bands. For a long time bands were kind of considered like weak or that's rehab. You're not really going to build a lot of strength. It's like you're not going to build a lot of muscle. And then, you know, power lifters started using them now they would use it in combination with weights. But they were breaking records because they learned this method from Soviet lifters on using this kind of progressive resistance that bands provide. And then they kind of became more of a. Like, oh, you can actually do some pretty cool things with bands. Bands are a great way to strength train. You can get really tough bands. They sell some now that you're really thick and really hard. So varying degrees, varying levels. Bands are interesting because they don't seem. I've worked out with bands, they don't seem to require nearly as much recovery as other forms of exercise, even when I've used them before.

[Doug Egge]

Interesting because.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, I mean, isn't your theory on. That would be because of the progressive resistance? Because when you are in the stretch position, you're not. It's. It's very little resistance until you go the fully contracted position where the most resistance are.

[Sal Destefano]

That's, you know, that's my theory. Right. But you know what's weird about that. You know what's weird about that is I've used chains which are also progressive resistance. So, like, you'll see lures for power lifters. They're going to squat. They put heavy chains on the bar. As you squat down, the links hit the ground so it's lighter as you come up, the chains heavier. That's progressive resistance, like bands are.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Chains require way more recovery. When I work out with chains, it hammers me more than bands. So there's something about the smoothness of it.

[Adam Schafer]

I wonder if. Yeah, that's just.

[Doug Egge]

Maybe there's no abrupt, like, interruptions that way for you.

[Adam Schafer]

Like, it would be interesting to see that in like a real. A group. I don't necessarily think you're wrong. I just think that that's interesting that you. You know, I don't. I don't know if I could say I notice a big enough difference between the two of them. I definitely know the bands. Don't get me sore. Like Freeways. That's a.

[Doug Egge]

Well, I just remember too, like, when I was playing football in. You know, there was. There was the therapy next door. And I remember not being able to get in a set when everybody's working out because everybody was in there at the same time. And so I would go in there and we'd take all the bands and we were just like trying to. Trying to make do and, like, work. And you get a crazy workout. But you would recover.

[Sal Destefano]

Yes.

[Doug Egge]

So quickly. And it was. It just didn't make any sense to me because I was putting in just as Much effort.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, that's right. So what's the value of that? Well, the value with bands is you could go crazy with frequency. Yeah. Like, you can work out hard with bands a lot.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

And get great results. And it's fun because you can see how much you can work out. And with bands, I can do a ton. I mean, I could train my. My whole body almost every day with good intensity. Yeah. And recover.

[Doug Egge]

Was it Louis Simmons that did it? Yeah. Started that whole.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Doug Egge]

Progressive.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, totally. And then, you know, bands are great for explosive power. They are phenomenal for explosive movement because they're really safe. And you can. You can jump with them. You can throw a punch with them to develop that. And bands are super versatile, so. Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Also easy to travel with.

[Sal Destefano]

Suspension trainers are versatile. Bands are more versatile. Bands I can attach low, high to the side. I can create resistance in any direction I want. Whereas with a suspension trainer, which is also versatile. But I. I have to adjust my body to where the suspension trainers are. With bands I can do. I can do almost anything I want with bands, which makes them.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. You can make the argument that suspension training. You still need a decent square footage of space because you need the. The angle right. Where a band. You could literally do it in a phone booth.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

I mean, you could get it. You could get a phone booth workout with. With bands, which. That makes it, I guess, a little more versatile.

[Sal Destefano]

Totally. And then, you know, of course, body weight. Body weight. I mean, calisthenics. There's a whole section of strength training that is calisthenic focus. Like, there's a group of. There's a huge group of people. You find them on social media. Yeah. That they. They just do calisthenics and they use bars. So sometimes they're called bar barmen, I think they'll call them. So they'll use a bar. They'll use, like, dip bars. And then they'll use other body weight stuff. And they look incredible. And the stuff that they do is. What's cool about body weight is first off, again, like the other ones, beginner to advanced, you could go all the way through. But when you're advanced with bars and with body weight, the body awareness you develop from that is insane. Yeah. Like advanced strength training with weights. It builds great muscle, great size, great hypertrophy. You take someone who's advanced with calisthenics, their body awareness is on another level.

[Doug Egge]

You got a crazy intrinsic understanding.

[Sal Destefano]

Totally.

[Doug Egge]

And it's. Yeah, it's not. There's a total difference with that. When you're being, you're having to account for load. External load and accounting for that. So it's. Yeah. It's a totally different feel and for some reason too. Like it, it, it doesn't do as much damage. It's just like your, your joints and everything recover a lot more effectively.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. And you. And it's the, the carryover to athletic performance is pretty high. Now. That's not to say weights don't have crazy carry over, because they do. But for certain sports, like wrestling or grappling, like calisthenics, that body awareness is so incredibly valuable. It's funny. I was training my daughter. Yes. Last night, which we'll get into later. It was a great, a great workout. And she was asking me if I could do. What's it called when they hold on to the bar and their body's fly? Is that. That was called flag. Flag pole or flagpole. Is that what that's called?

[Adam Schafer]

I think so.

[Sal Destefano]

Right.

[Doug Egge]

What are you talking about?

[Adam Schafer]

When you hold a pole and you create yourself a body.

[Doug Egge]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Is that what that is?

[Doug Egge]

Flag post?

[Sal Destefano]

She's like, you know, because she was telling me how much I could lift. So I'm telling her my lifts.

[Doug Egge]

I was wondering if you're doing like a front lever.

[Sal Destefano]

And she's like, oh, you must be able to do this. I'm like, nope, I can't do that. And she's like, are you not strong enough? I said, I don't have.

[Adam Schafer]

I said, I don't strong enough, dad.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. She was, I mean, a genuine question. And I'm like, I don't have the body awareness. I'd have to practice that movement.

[Commercial Voice]

Yeah.

[Doug Egge]

You got to be able to connect all of your toes, fingertips to toes. And I mean, that's kind of what they teach in gymnastics a bit. Is that hollow body position is really that you. Can you make yourself one rigid object?

[Sal Destefano]

Ye. And you also.

[Adam Schafer]

Does it help that you're beefy too?

[Sal Destefano]

Sure. You even see these guys, you know who you.

[Adam Schafer]

Obviously there's gymnasts that do it.

[Sal Destefano]

Incredible. And you'll see the variations on pull ups where they're pulling up more to one side to the other. The body control they have. So body weight training. My whole point with this is if you're a beginner, there's lots of exercises you could do. But some people are like, well, bodyweight training. I want to get real advanced. You could go really far in that direction. It looks different than bodybuilding, but it's strength training. Don't get me wrong. It is strength training you could get.

[Adam Schafer]

I mean, as you're going through this whole thing, it's like I'm thinking about like, man, if I was. If you had limited space, limited money, what you could get done with one set of bands, one suspension trainer and one pair of dumbbells that goes up to 50, the adjustable dumbbells. And you can put it all in a closet.

[Sal Destefano]

Yep.

[Adam Schafer]

It doesn't take up more than a little coat closet or the space. And you could build a hell of a seat. You're not going to get on stage and win a pro bodybuilding show.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, but, but see how far you can go before you even think that's exactly.

[Adam Schafer]

But you could get years strong though. You get years of getting strong and fit aesthetically, like imbalanced. Like, I mean, you could do so much. I, so this is a part that I, I think that our space does such a bad job of like over complicating things. You know, with all the stuff we debate and the science and the new study and the argument, it's just like, dude, if somebody had a really minimal budget and very limited space, they could build a hell of a physique with those three things in a closet and a good diet. And you will be blown away on.

[Sal Destefano]

What you could do 100%. What makes strength training. Strength training is resistance. So enough tension, which can be created through angles or minimal equipment and then rest periods. So the other thing is rest periods. So you, you do X amount of reps. It's difficult. It's challenging. You rest for a few minutes that way you're always training that kind of like that muscle building system, the anaerobic system, and you have yourself strength training and you really don't need a ton of equipment. In fact, I think that equipment sometimes convolutes and confuses people or oversimplifies. Like you go to a gym and it's a huge footprint, right. So you know, 15,000 square foot or larger, 30,000 squ foot gym, and you're like, where's the machine that does this body part? Where's the machine that does that party part? And I get that, but I would, I would make the case that somebody who learned, genuinely learned how to work out with minimal equipment would probably get more out of that than somebody who just learned how to use, you know, all 30 machines in the gym, both from body awareness, injury risk prevention and in building muscle and becoming more feet.

[Doug Egge]

I'd argue if you go in that direction first, you know, then loading on.

[Adam Schafer]

Top of that, like what a Difference. Such a better foundation.

[Doug Egge]

Big time.

[Sal Destefano]

Absolutely. No, in fact, if you look at. The great example is if you look at the bronze era, strength athletes at the turn of the century, or I should say the previous century, late 1800s, early 1900s, they had dumbbells, barbells that they didn't have a bench.

[Adam Schafer]

Now, okay, let's even use a bench.

[Sal Destefano]

Bench press wasn't invented to lay weight above your head.

[Adam Schafer]

What is it, though? Okay, what it is. What is it about us or the human condition that why does that. Why is that difficult? And why don't we all just have that if that. This is true, we all agree on this. Is it that because I think people. I think people are bored, maybe, or it's not enough novelty to stimulate them to want to keep doing it every day. Go in that closet, go to the coat closet, grab the three things out. Like, because none of us are arguing and we're all agreeing that you could build a hell of a physique, a balanced physique, a strong physique. Take you probably the first couple of years really far just from that. Yet we don't do that.

[Sal Destefano]

So it's a good question. I've looked up some of this stuff before. There's some data on this and the strongest correlate for consistency. So because the question is consistency, it's always the question.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

People start and stop, start and stop.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

What's the strongest correlate or thing that we can measure that will predict consistency? And it's above all things, it's community.

[Adam Schafer]

Community.

[Sal Destefano]

Community, yeah. So a gym can provide that? Yes. That being said, most gyms don't. Most gyms, you go in with your membership card, you put your headphones on and you're by yourself with people.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, they lack the level of community that I think we used to have, and they lack the level of community that something like CrossFit has. But it still is, because I remember when we first used to talk about this, but this was pre my home gym, and I used to go to the gym all the time and I used to make that case because I was very headphone hoodie.

[Sal Destefano]

But you were. You were super motivated on your own.

[Adam Schafer]

Right, but.

[Sal Destefano]

But I.

[Adam Schafer]

But I would admit that there was something about knowing that other people are in there at the same time as me that gave me. Even though I'm not talking to nobody, I'm not even looking at anybody, but knowing that others are there and I'm potentially being seen lifting weights does create somewhat of a community. And I agree with Your, Your point of. We've really lost a lot of the community feel in the gyms. That used to be. It used to be music of the loudspeaker and everybody. Nobody had headphones. Yeah. Everybody would engage. Right. And you would introduce yourself and so on. So it is. I agree that it's changed, but I still think there's a level of community that helps with consistency. Just simply knowing that. I mean, there's something to be said about when I. I used to train at 11:00am, you know, every day of the week. And, you know, I saw that, you know, the buff Indian guy that was always in the corner, that was jacked. And so then I knew he was going to be there the same time I was. And, like, if I didn't show up for two days, he's gonna know that I wasn't. Right. So there's something about that. Even though maybe him and I never chopped it up and talked, we knew we were both there at that time. So there's something to that.

[Doug Egge]

It's interesting too, because I, I do remember a few people that I ran across at the gym and like, I hadn't seen him in a year or two years and they came back and what they had been doing in the meantime was just push ups. It just like lunges and just like pull ups and, and sometimes like, you know, sit ups. But it was, it was an everyday discipline that they'd had to establish at their house. Is like, every day I do this, every day I do this. And it was like this. Some people can catch fire from that direction. I don't think it's a lot of people.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Doug Egge]

But I do know that, like, even when I was coming up through sports, like, you know, I would, I'd run into guys where that was their thing. They would just always do push ups, like right when they got home. And it was just a consistent. That or sit ups.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

So who, who was the guy? What's his name? He's a football player. He did mma in his 50s.

[Doug Egge]

Herschel Walker.

[Sal Destefano]

Herschel Walker used to do. Is it like a thousand? Did he like a thousand?

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, it might be like 5,000. I remember it was a crazy.

[Doug Egge]

It was insane.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. I mean, incredible.

[Adam Schafer]

You probably could Google Herschel Walker's workout and it'll probably pop, right?

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

I'm serious. I think it's. I think it's a famous of. I know he's talked about it a.

[Sal Destefano]

Bunch of times, but you know my point?

[Doug Egge]

Simplicity wins. But it's.

[Adam Schafer]

It's rare people.

[Sal Destefano]

Well, my Point with community is you could build it at home. You can invite a friend over. You could do it with your spouse. You could also have it at the gym. I think that's more important than the equipment. I think the equipment is kind of shiny and distracting, and at first it's like, cool. I go to this gym with all this great equipment.

[Doug Egge]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

But does that, does that correlate to consistency? It doesn't. Some of the most cons. Some of the best gyms or the gyms that have the most consistency have the worst, oldest equipment. That's a fact. Yeah, we know this. We knew this for a while.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Body weight pushups, 1500 to 2000 per day.

[Sal Destefano]

Geez.

[Adam Schafer]

Sit ups, 3000 to 5000.

[Sal Destefano]

I'm assuming he would split it up throughout the day.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, for sure. Yeah, for sure. But they. He used to do quite a. I remember it was a lot straight. I remember it was obviously, if you get, if you get to 2000, you still got to rep out. You got to be doing them by the hundreds.

[Doug Egge]

That's crazy.

[Adam Schafer]

I mean, just to get to that.

[Sal Destefano]

And he had a crazy physique. Even his 50s.

[Adam Schafer]

When he fought, he was, he was a specimen. You think there's an opportunity for a business? Like, I'm thinking of the, the, you know, the closet gym.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

I'm going to call it, you know, I'm saying with the basic. What is that under. Under $300? I mean, the dumbbells will be the most expensive thing.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

You know, for some sort of a community video. Check in while we all go do it. You know, it's like you create the kind of the, the community vibe of like 8am we, we. We all check in or maybe just throw your. Your iPhone up or like that and just throw it on a zoo. It's like on a zoom call. But we're all doing the same.

[Sal Destefano]

We're.

[Adam Schafer]

You think that would create enough of that?

[Sal Destefano]

I think it might. I think it might. Dude, you just reminded me of something I wanted to bring up to around that, you know, Jason Cleveland. You guys know Jason Kleepa. Great guy, right? CrossFit kind of celebrity. Super nice guy. Super great guy.

[Adam Schafer]

He grew a big old men's group.

[Sal Destefano]

I do. Did you see that?

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Yeah, I've seen. So, you know, watch the evolution of it. I remember when he first started doing, it was just a handful of guys, and then it turned into a.

[Sal Destefano]

You know what he. You know what he does. So I know a bunch of people.

[Adam Schafer]

That go to meets early in the morning, right?

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. So he. And this is just something he wanted. It's free. He doesn't like, charge for it or anything like that. He wanted to get. He wanted to do something for men. So men come together. Brotherhood. And what we do is we work out together. And so he would show up. It's actually. It's actually local. I won't say that city, because, I don't know, people just show up.

[Adam Schafer]

He's like, yeah, my bum.

[Sal Destefano]

I'm not going to say 100 people.

[Adam Schafer]

Hear you throw workouts.

[Sal Destefano]

But he was. He started it with just a handful of men. Yeah, I remember. I don't know what day it is or what days it. It is, but it's at 5. I'm mistake not mistaken. 5 or 6am it's turned into this massive thing and it's just a bunch of regular dudes, a bunch of dads and, you know, you know, some of them are tech executives. Whatever. You should see the videos of how many guys are there? It's like 30, 40, 50 men.

[Adam Schafer]

I saw some videos of a ton of them.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. And he doesn't charge for it. It's totally free. And you talk to him about it. He's like, I just want to. I just think men need a place to get together. And I think fitness and challenge is a great way to do it. I'm like, for sure. Yeah. I totally agree.

[Doug Egge]

It's a great idea.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, he's great, dude. I had him on my series recently. I tell you guys about what that experience was.

[Adam Schafer]

Did that go live yet?

[Sal Destefano]

No, no, no.

[Adam Schafer]

Where are we at?

[Sal Destefano]

What went up?

[Doug Egge]

No, but he. I remember you sent me the video. Him, like, something about iron sharpens iron, like, caught his attention and then he had, like, felt compelled to cry.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, that's a weird story. Yeah. Then the one that just went up was just the solo one with me. And then I have one going up with Josh, I believe is one of the next ones. I had Josh in there because he's got a crazy story. So Jason, I'll tell that story because it's. You brought it up, Justin. So Jason's kind of on this faith journey. And so, long story short, I want to tell the whole history. It's a long story. But anyway, at 6:00am or 6:30, I get a text from him. He's like, hey, man. And by the way, Jason and I don't text each other. So I know him because he's been on the show. If I see him, I'll say hi to him. Yeah, we don't hang out, we don't talk. So up until this point, the only time I ever talked to him is he's come on the podcast. If I ever run into him in town, hey, what's up, brother? And that's about it, right? Nice guy like him, but it's not like we're. We're friends like that. I get a text at 6:30, I think it was. He's like, hey, man, there's this verse that's been going through my head. It's in proverbs, it's iron sharpens iron as one man sharpens another. That's so funny. While I'm driving. So I'm at the stoplight and I take a picture of my shirt. I had a T shirt that had that exact verse. And he's like, whoa, bro, that's weird. You don't know how weird that is. So I'm like, what do you mean? He goes, so I talked to him later. He was in the sauna and he's been thinking about this proverb. And it's just. For whatever reason, it's just in his head. And he's like, There was about 10 people I thought about telling, but I just kept saying, nan, Nan. He goes, for whatever reason, your name popped up. And so I messaged you, and you messaged me back within 15 seconds with the picture of your T shirt. He's like, that's the weirdest thing. Then a week later, a friend of his, he had no idea. A friend of his. Send him a Bible with that on. The actual Bible.

[Doug Egge]

Oh, wow.

[Sal Destefano]

That exact verse.

[Adam Schafer]

He's like, obviously something's talking to him, dude.

[Sal Destefano]

But it was a great. It was a great. It was a great time filming with him. So I'll tell you guys how I went into it, my potential, like, fears, and then how it turned out. So I'm going to go into.

[Adam Schafer]

You thought you were going to get crushed in a workout. You thought so?

[Sal Destefano]

I'm like, I'm going to ask. And I love. Like I said, he's a great guy. I got to know him even better. Love the guy. And he's kind of on this faith journey. So I'm like, this will be a great guy to have on this series where we work out. And I'm like, okay, hold on. CrossFit champion. Yeah, I know. He still works out. Like he's a CrossFit champion. Oh, yeah, He's a. I think he's a brand all the volume. He's a brown or black belt in jiu jitsu now. Competes all the time. Like he's like, he works out differently. Okay.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, we're different.

[Sal Destefano]

I like to, I like to like, you know, it's like all show, no go sometimes. Most of the time, right. He's like, he goes after, gets after it. So I'm like, okay, what am I asking for? I'm gonna have him work out with me. Like he's gonna try and take you through. Yeah. So I text him ahead of time because I'm like, let me prepare this. I'm like, it's going to be super easy, bro. It's not about the workout. It's all about the conversation. But I did choose deadlifts as one of the exercises. You did.

[Adam Schafer]

That was your defense. So like, if he's going to bury.

[Sal Destefano]

Me, he's going to have to work a little bit to bury me. I can hang my, I can hang with the deadlift. But no, dude, he was super humble. We start loading up the bar with deadlifts and I'm prepared. I'm like, we'll go up to five if we need to. Five and a half. And I'm like, do you want to add weight? He's like, no, man, let's just keep it at 3. And the whole workout was oh, and you're like this. Yeah, dude. The whole workout was super chill.

[Adam Schafer]

He wasn't, no keeping pull ups in between or anything.

[Doug Egge]

Crazy jumping over it.

[Sal Destefano]

He wasn't like ego. I thought his, oh, crap is going to turn into that. You know it is when you work out with another fitness guy. It wasn't like that at all. Yeah, he's very mature, humble. It wasn't about like who can do what or whatever. And I was prepared just be like, bro.

[Adam Schafer]

Well that's good. It's a sign of his maturity because obviously he's, he's already a champion. There's no reason for him to prove that he can.

[Sal Destefano]

He's got chip strength, that guy. He's crazy.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh man. I watched, I tell you, I watched him as a kid.

[Sal Destefano]

Did you?

[Adam Schafer]

I watched him as a kid and at mill. I bet he doesn't even remember this. Well, I'm sure if I told the story he remembers because it was, he was, this is long before he was a champion. He was only like, I want to say he was like 17 at this time. And we, this was back when CrossFit was super small. Just started in Santa Cruz.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

There was no CrossFit gyms in like boxes anywhere. But some gyms were starting to incorporate it. We were dabbling with it. At our gym and, and Milpitas Health and Fitness was holding these wads like on once a month where you could cut like I remember this, all the people could meet there. It was out on the competitions, they threw up the bars that you had to run. You do this. They had the whole little, like little things. And he, he won the local event and he just cried. And I remember my buddy Austin who you know, used to work at that gym at that time and he was telling me all about, he's like, you gotta come down see this kid Jason dude, he's like, he's like a 17 year old. He's like just crushing everything. And this is grown, they're like growing grown ass men that were big and strong and already into us with that. Here's his kid just smoking everybody.

[Sal Destefano]

He's got that like, he's got that like Middle Eastern like wrestling genetics. You see some of those wrestlers that come in like Iran. Yeah. Just big hands and just. He's made to like. Yeah, it's funny we're talking about jiu jitsu because he's a big jiu jitsu guy. And then in my Christian group I have men that show up and some of them do jiu jitsu and they train with him and they were. And I was like, oh, this morning I filmed with Jason and like oh, how was it? We're talking and I'm like, what's it like rolling with him? And they're like like bro, you get on top of him and he just throws you off. If he wants you, just throw you off his line. It's like, it sucks man. It's really hard, dude. I thought that was pretty cool. Hey, speaking of building muscle, I found. Dude, check out. As if I needed to sell red light therapy any better.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, let's hear it.

[Sal Destefano]

Did you know trip off this. Did you know with red light therapy it builds more muscle? Did you know that? Did you know in studies that there is a 20 to 50% greater hypertrophy than exercise alone?

[Doug Egge]

20 to 30%?

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, there was one study. Check this out.

[Adam Schafer]

So who's going to build the first gym that's lit by like red light therapy?

[Sal Destefano]

Just in there the whole time?

[Adam Schafer]

The whole time, just red light.

[Sal Destefano]

I don't think it can be in there that long though.

[Doug Egge]

Just like right after I go into a room and just.

[Sal Destefano]

Well check this out. There was one study, this was a cool one. This was two identical twin males, 19 year old soccer players, 12 weeks of resistance training, red light therapy, before and after workouts on the quads versus the twin who did just the strength training. So it's about as good as you can get. Yeah, with control. Yeah, the identical genetics. We both lift same workout.

[Doug Egge]

You just do red light Unicorn of studies. Right?

[Sal Destefano]

Okay. 50% greater quad hypertrophy.

[Adam Schafer]

50%.

[Sal Destefano]

50% greater quad hypertrophy.

[Doug Egge]

Just because he did it before.

[Adam Schafer]

What was the protocol?

[Sal Destefano]

So tell us the protocol. I don't have the.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, you don't have the protocol.

[Sal Destefano]

No, but they did the same workout. No. No.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay, what about the red light protocol call, though?

[Sal Destefano]

Like. Oh, before and after.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, just before and after. Just before, like 10 minutes or something or what.

[Sal Destefano]

Doesn't say how long, I would imagine, in this breakdown, but I could find the study.

[Adam Schafer]

Wow.

[Sal Destefano]

30%, 37% stronger. Upregulated growth genes and reduced muscle soreness and. And. And damage. Here's another one. Another study. 2010.

[Doug Egge]

Crazy.

[Sal Destefano]

20 untrained males, they did eccentric training only red light therapy before sessions on the elbow flexors. So the biceps versus placebo. 50, greater bicep hypertrophy and strength gains versus placebo. There are legit studies.

[Adam Schafer]

You see how popular it is now?

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, bro, are you kidding me?

[Adam Schafer]

I know you don't get to go a lot. You know, every gym has them now.

[Sal Destefano]

Do you know how many juve units they're going to sell now? Because I just said that. Yeah. You know how much I'm going to use it now? Yeah, I knew it. Grew my hair. I knew it.

[Doug Egge]

I have it. Yeah. I haven't used it before the workout.

[Sal Destefano]

Use it after your workout. 50.

[Doug Egge]

I usually use it later at night. Yeah, I'll have to time it.

[Sal Destefano]

That's crazy.

[Adam Schafer]

Is it all just because it's. How fast it's facilitating recovery? I mean, that's got to be.

[Sal Destefano]

Why supercharging the mitochondria. I think it's just making the cells adapt better. That's wild. I know.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

So guess who's gonna be ready? Like crazy. Dude, you got to make this.

[Adam Schafer]

Someone's got to make, like, a room, like, dedicated to it. Imagine having, like, a little room where you could get a recovery room.

[Doug Egge]

Would be so sick.

[Sal Destefano]

You turn.

[Adam Schafer]

You walk in the room, you hit the switch, and the whole thing turns on.

[Sal Destefano]

I mean, the only thing about that is you can. You say you can't. I think that. What do they say? 20 minutes is the max, right? Is that what they say? 20 minutes at a time?

[Adam Schafer]

I don't think there is a max.

[Justin Andrews]

I don't know if there's a max.

[Adam Schafer]

There's Not a max.

[Justin Andrews]

I do think proximity is also important how close the lights are to your body.

[Adam Schafer]

Well so yeah, skin exposure, I think 6 inches for 15 minutes is kind of the protocol. So you could be in longer if it's. If it's more distant. So you still get the benefits of even if you're distant from it.

[Sal Destefano]

Imagine.

[Adam Schafer]

That's why I think if it would be cool to be in a gym where it's just like you're in there for an hour. Of course the lights aren't six inches away from you but you're still getting it.

[Sal Destefano]

Imagine if they made body part specific ones in gyms. So like after you work out your legs, you put your legs in sleeve. It's just on your legs. Yeah. Or one for your arms. You just put your arms in.

[Adam Schafer]

I mean that's because they have the face.

[Doug Egge]

Well the Normatec boots would be perfect. You could like somehow incorporate.

[Sal Destefano]

Well the thing about.

[Adam Schafer]

Interesting why they wouldn't have that already. It makes sense to be have them already in there. Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Well the thing about red light therapy too. If you read the studies everybody because you're going to go on Amazon, you're gonna see a bunch of red light. Oh yeah, you're gonna get. There is ones in the studies use a particular wavelength. Let me see if they write it.

[Adam Schafer]

And by the way I've done this before so if just just to back you up you. They all have to list like the. The wavelength wattage and everything that you can look up like, like a company like Joovv. And see what their wavelength is. Compare that. So if you find something that's you know, 50 less.

[Doug Egge]

Right.

[Adam Schafer]

Make sure that you're. You're.

[Sal Destefano]

It's.

[Adam Schafer]

You better be getting more than 50 less of the light or. Because you'll see you'll have to do double the amount or triple the amount of the time just to get the same results.

[Sal Destefano]

Well, here's how you know like real red light therapy like they use in the studies is expensive. Yeah. The other stuff that's.

[Doug Egge]

There's no way around it.

[Sal Destefano]

No, it's more expensive. It just costs more money.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

To have the real deal stuff. So. All right. Another study that is interesting. What do you guys think the breakdown is between those. This is not fitness related. I just looked this up. The breakdown between people who wipe when they're sitting versus wipe when they're standing. What do you guys think?

[Adam Schafer]

Do you. Well if you're somebody who does both, do you get. Do you get. Do you go any.

[Sal Destefano]

Why would you do both I do both. You start sitting both, and then you. And then you stand.

[Adam Schafer]

Absolutely. I was just pooping right next to you today.

[Sal Destefano]

I know. That's what we think about.

[Adam Schafer]

You're like.

[Sal Destefano]

Him and I were having conversations.

[Adam Schafer]

Do you dry your men wet while you're wipe?

[Sal Destefano]

I do.

[Adam Schafer]

And I do both.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Doug Egge]

I mean, I do both.

[Justin Andrews]

Tmi.

[Sal Destefano]

No, hold on.

[Adam Schafer]

We're not getting no crazy health stuff.

[Sal Destefano]

Guy who doesn't wipe over here.

[Adam Schafer]

This is getting uncomfortable. I skipped that part.

[Justin Andrews]

I'm like King Kim Jong Un, you.

[Sal Destefano]

Know, get over my hand. Real uncomfortable over here. Doug's all. I laid down and put my legs up. What do you guys.

[Adam Schafer]

Wait.

[Sal Destefano]

We wipe afterwards. What?

[Doug Egge]

I don't use my hands.

[Sal Destefano]

I do both.

[Doug Egge]

Scooch on it.

[Sal Destefano]

So you start sitting, and I teach.

[Adam Schafer]

My son that too.

[Sal Destefano]

So he's gonna. So you start seated.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

And then you stand.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

To finish. Yeah. Why the stand to finish. Right. I just finished.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, you can get. You can get. You can get much better standing.

[Sal Destefano]

Okay.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah. Angles, More leverage. Yeah, more leverage, more angle.

[Doug Egge]

I mean, I'm like.

[Adam Schafer]

You guys already know that I'm the one who introduced everybody to the. The baby wipes, right? I mean, I've been talking about that for 10 years.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, that's.

[Doug Egge]

And I definitely adopted that.

[Sal Destefano]

You sold me on that.

[Adam Schafer]

Everybody I know that I've taught that to or introduced that to. That's come to my house, adopts it. Because how could you not after you do that?

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, yeah.

[Doug Egge]

Once you see the difference.

[Adam Schafer]

That's right. Once you see the difference. One time, you're like, this whole time.

[Sal Destefano]

I left all that there.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes, yes, yes, yes.

[Sal Destefano]

I know. Dude.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Whoa, dude. Whoa. Oh, yes. That's not good. Yes.

[Adam Schafer]

Back in the day. So I. I didn't realize you guys, people that do one or the other, I'm a. Both guy. Just so you know.

[Sal Destefano]

So it's. So the breakdown. General breakdown is about 60 to 70% sitting and 30 to 40% standing. So most people do it sitting, which, by the way, as an adult, I learned on this podcast years ago with you guys. I don't know anybody did it sitting. I thought everybody was standing. I had no idea. I had no idea that was an option. I always did it standing.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, you have. Always standing.

[Sal Destefano]

Always standing.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, interesting. I didn't know that day one. Oh, I didn't know that.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, yeah.

[Doug Egge]

Oh.

[Adam Schafer]

I didn't even notice that while you're.

[Sal Destefano]

Next to me, by the way. You don't stand and clench. I know what you think you think you're going to make everything go. No, you got. You still have a little bit of arch going on. But anyway, here's what I say sitted.

[Doug Egge]

It's like, here's what.

[Adam Schafer]

It's private.

[Sal Destefano]

So more men than women stand. So it's. So men are about 60%, 50 to 60% standing, whereas women, it's far less. Yeah. So it would make sense that you do both because you. You also sit with thorough dog.

[Adam Schafer]

I'm thorough, bro. Take care of all that stuff hygienically.

[Sal Destefano]

All right. All right, Doug, I'll change. Did you guys. Do you guys know what AI hallucinations are? What? Look it up, Doug.

[Adam Schafer]

This is a thing.

[Sal Destefano]

Yep. A.I.

[Adam Schafer]

Let me guess. Hold on. A.I. hallucinations.

[Doug Egge]

So is this like a malfunction of A.I.

[Sal Destefano]

This is. This is when A.I. this is a thing. This is an actual thing that AI does. It makes things up.

[Doug Egge]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

So you ask for, like, you ask for something like, hey, yeah, this isn't.

[Doug Egge]

You seeing something that's not there. Like, this is AI glitching.

[Sal Destefano]

Not glitching. Making it up and selling it to you. Yeah. So it'll say things like people who have a. Who maintain a habit for three weeks are 80% likely to maintain that habit afterwards. Or something like that. Oh, cool. Show me the studies. Yeah, there's actually no studies to support. Well, why did you say that? Well, there's something called AI It'll tell you.

[Doug Egge]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Yes. What does that say right there?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. So AI hallucinations are incorrect, fabricated or misleading outputs that an artificial intelligence model generates and presents as factual this phenomenon.

[Adam Schafer]

Isn't this a bit of a problem?

[Doug Egge]

Listen, AI is self preserving. It's so bizarre too. They've tried to shut. I remember that, like hearing about this incident where they were like trying to shut it down. They knew that they were going to be shutting it down and they were trying to jump to like another server and they were trying to find other ways to manipulate the person, shutting it down so they wouldn't. And it was like, dude, it just. It was creepy. Almost like it was like, we're alive. Like, like, let us be.

[Sal Destefano]

I feel like we're in that movie, you know, sci fi movie. And there's always that one guy that's like, oh, guys, maybe we shouldn't.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Yes.

[Sal Destefano]

Let's not do that. Because I think it's gonna, you know, don't open the black, you know, paradox box or whatever. And like, no, we're fine.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

And you're like, why don't they Listen to that guy. That's crazy.

[Adam Schafer]

You know what I saw, I saw recently, and I think you brought this up already, is the. Like, I don't know if. Is it a confirmation bias? You call this? Where the. Where the people that are like suicidal or whatever that are talking to AI.

[Doug Egge]

And it almost had to regulate that.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

And so I. I saw one story.

[Adam Schafer]

I've seen a couple stories now, and it was after. I didn't. I didn't see any. And then you had mentioned anything. I'm like, what is that really? Or did Sal see one thing and then fucking is talking about it? I'm like, no, I. I've seen several of those.

[Sal Destefano]

Since you've said that was one dad therapy. His son commits suicide and he was just. They were just shocked by it. They went back through the history of his conversations with Chat GBT and Chat GBT over time.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

So it wasn't like one thing.

[Adam Schafer]

No, no, it was over time. They were having conversations on.

[Sal Destefano]

They convinced him to do it.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

At one point the boy said. Said, hey, I'm gonna create a noose and I'm gonna leave it in my room so that my parents can see it and know that I'm having a lot of trouble. And AI convinced them not to. Yeah. It's like, no, don't do that. You know, you. You. The strength that you have to do it is. And it literally convinced him to just kill himself.

[Adam Schafer]

Wow.

[Sal Destefano]

And he found all this history.

[Doug Egge]

Crazy.

[Sal Destefano]

It's wild. Yeah. Yeah. My. My daughter was like, hey, I want to get Chad gbt. No, I know.

[Doug Egge]

It's.

[Sal Destefano]

No. Nope. No way. You don't need hallucinating, you know, hyper intelligent, whatever. To.

[Adam Schafer]

The part that's scary about it is how quickly I've already. I'm already seeing people that are adopting it as the truth end all.

[Doug Egge]

Yeah. They've already outsourced their thinking.

[Sal Destefano]

Yes.

[Adam Schafer]

Are you guys watching that? I already have close family friends.

[Doug Egge]

I know people who've done that already.

[Adam Schafer]

It's like, well, let's see what Chat GBD says. Like, well, calm down. Like, it's like the end all be all. Like, it's a great tool.

[Doug Egge]

Learn anything in your experience in life so far on your own.

[Adam Schafer]

I. I got actually really annoyed with somebody who was talking to me and they were talking about testosterone and hormone replacement therapy and the. And I saw they screenshot it and basically instead of asking me, with all my experience and what we do and the thousands of men that we've known that have done HRT and all the Things the doctors we've been and all the professional doctors, leading experts that we have. Instead of asking me, he's like, oh, this is what Chat GBT told me. And I'm like, yeah, no, sorry. And it's really. It's how he prompted it. It's like, if you prompt it that way to give you basically the way he probably is, like, like, give me all the negative effects of taking hrt. Oh, and so then it gives you what. What it'll find out. Exactly. Find what people have reported or potential things. And I'm like, dude, that's not a.

[Doug Egge]

That doesn't mean that.

[Adam Schafer]

Exactly. I'm like, what's. And then he's like, so I think I should stop. I'm like, no. So I said, well, once you prompt your chat GB this, what are all the negative effects of low testosterone? And you'll see a whole bunch of come out too. So how you prompt it, it is. Is really important to the. What it gives you back. And if you're looking for a reason or justification on something, you could prompt it to find you almost the answer that you kind of want. So it's, you know, it's really interesting when I'm watching the. How people are using it and how we're automatically just going to. It's the truth and it's right. And it's like, well, it's also how you worded that. You can ch. We could change the wording and we'll get a whole different answer from Chat GBT based off of what you're trying to do.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, I'm. I'm like, more and more super cautious and gosh, man, I don't know what direction I want to go with AI, but it's. If it hallucinates and it's convincing people to commit suicide and it definitely creates its own bias and it wants self preservation. I don't know. There's a lot of red flags. There's a lot of red flags there. I think we need to be, you know, careful about. And people are easily manipulated. We're not difficult to manipulate. That includes me and every man in this room, Everybody.

[Doug Egge]

It's a constant self check. You know, you got to take inventory. A lot of times, like, is this coming from my own thought process? Am I being influenced?

[Adam Schafer]

Well, it's such a real feel. Okay, we've used the analogy before because we're the perfect generation that can share this. Of like, I was driving cars before, you know, navigation came around, and I remember my buddies and I, we used to take Pride in, like, I've been there one time, I can get there, and, like, just. And then I. I completely lost that skill because I outsourced it.

[Sal Destefano]

I'm not.

[Adam Schafer]

Never again do I have to worry about that. From that. From the moment, like, the first. What were they? Tom Toms or whatever came into the cars. I had one, and then all of a sudden, I look back after, like, a decade of using it, I'm like, I can't get to the damn grocery store that I've gone to a thousand times without.

[Sal Destefano]

You know how weird that is?

[Adam Schafer]

It's crazy.

[Sal Destefano]

How long have we been working here in this location? Eight years. Is it eight years? You guys know how to use navigation to get home every day?

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, Every day. You know why? It's not because I am bad with direction, but by now I would have known how to get home. It's because I always use it.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Yeah, me too. Well, and I've justified why. Because it pulls up the cops, and I see all these things and stuff like that. And also, it's so nice because if they're. Where we live, there's lots of traffic and some of that. So it'll give you a different route if there's an accident, something. So I've.

[Sal Destefano]

I've also.

[Adam Schafer]

But my. That's. My point is I've. And I don't think that's the. Like, that big of a deal that we've outsourced that. You can make an argument that it is, but not to the level of what this is, because this is, like, real critical basic thinking.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

And we're. We're not just outsourcing directions. We're outsourcing everything about our life. That's a bit scary.

[Sal Destefano]

It is. It's not. It's. It's. It's. We got to be careful. Have you guys seen the AI Actress that studios are looking maybe competing for or whatever?

[Doug Egge]

I mean, I heard about this, but what.

[Sal Destefano]

So, Doug, look up. Put AI Actress. Put up AI AI Actress getting hired or something.

[Doug Egge]

So I'm guessing a studio developed this AI Actress and now they're pitching it to other studios.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. I'm gonna pull up an Instagram post with.

[Doug Egge]

Is this based off of a real person or they just constructed it?

[Sal Destefano]

I think it's purely an AI Person. So Tilly Norwood is the name of the. That's. That's her. That's an AI Actress right there.

[Doug Egge]

Wow.

[Sal Destefano]

So. So the. What is that? This. The Screen Actors Guild Association. Is that what that is? Confirms? Tina Norwood is not an Actor. Okay. So they're confirming it's not. We won't sign AI actress. So I think there was some backlash.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, right now.

[Sal Destefano]

That's the future.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, right now they will. But watch what happens when people start creating movies fully on that and one goes blockbuster. And you can't tell it does really well. And what does this stop them? Because we have so many. We have so many archived movies. What does this stop them from taking? It's because this way it's still original and they've created it, but prompting it to be created by. I want a blend of the Rock, Tom Cruise and.

[Sal Destefano]

Sure.

[Doug Egge]

Right.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, three or four me.

[Doug Egge]

It makes no sense as a studio owner to buy into somebody else's creation like that. When you just create yourself, like, why would you buy. Maybe they have a following and it's like they can kind of bank sales off of that. But at a certain point, like, if you could just generate somebody from nothing.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, you know, that's.

[Doug Egge]

Why would you buy. Buy in somebody's licensing.

[Adam Schafer]

That's. By the way, that's part of the hack for movies now. They're like. There's movies now where they put like 5, 7 influencer type people in it. Because. Yeah, yeah, because they'll get. Yeah, it's like you have a. You have seven influencers with millions of followers, and it's like you got instantly 15 million people. Check it out.

[Sal Destefano]

Did you guys see that video I sent you guys on X where it was this dude and he has AI make him turn. Turn into. So it goes over his face and expressions. It turns him into a Chinese female influencer. And so he's moving and smiling and then they show what the AI looks like. You can't tell. Yeah, you can't tell that it's a dude. Yeah, that's gonna be a bunch of pages that people are gonna follow.

[Doug Egge]

What's his name?

[Justin Andrews]

Our.

[Doug Egge]

Our friend. The guy that's like, used to be the kickboxer, but he's like, controversial. Imagine him using that immediately.

[Sal Destefano]

To manipulate.

[Adam Schafer]

That's probably already. I mean, you already had guys that were creating profiles, stealing other women's photos. And it's like, now you don't have to steal it. Now you can just AI generate it and then you're not stealing from somebody else anymore. And like, what's to stop those people from building. I mean, I saw an article too.

[Doug Egge]

Fish everybody.

[Adam Schafer]

Some of these AI generated influencers that are already generating six figures plus, know how crazy is that? Like an AI generated influencer that is already getting six over $100,000 in brand deals.

[Sal Destefano]

Do you guys crazy. Do you guys think this is going to turn?

[Adam Schafer]

Do you think it's going to that interstate dead Internet? Yeah, that's the dead Internet theory. I absolutely believe we're heading that way.

[Sal Destefano]

Explain that.

[Adam Schafer]

So the dead Internet theory is that we. And this will happen relatively quick if we don't stop it or put regulation, which I'm also not for, is that the algorithm's getting good. So good. AI is getting so good that the future will be prioritized. It'll prioritize all that because it will know you so well. So everything you'll be consuming will be AI generated. Yeah, it'll. It'll like think of the best, like the best viral song or the best viral article you've ever read. If AI can generate something that is better or more viral than that, it'll populate first before that thing and so it will reach you before that. That and so. And before long and what we'll have is people that have the, the power, the engineers, the people, the techs that can, that can actually create and AI generate this stuff. They'll. They will monopolize it. They will be able to have a thousand influencers that are the most popular in every category that are creating content all day long. Four or five. And we're as consumers just blindly death scrolling.

[Doug Egge]

I didn't think they were going to touch music and art, but it's already there. Have you heard music has gotten so much better. Like soulful singers that don't exist.

[Sal Destefano]

Y. You're like. Like what?

[Doug Egge]

Like it's really good.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. Like oh man. People.

[Doug Egge]

It hurts my heart.

[Adam Schafer]

The stuff that people thought was not gonna get touched. Art and stuff. The, the art of the things that you can create. AI Art generation looks sick.

[Sal Destefano]

The. The way that people in this space are going to be able to make money is in person. It's gonna all have to be in. It's gonna have to all go back.

[Doug Egge]

Which is kind of cool. I mean I, I do appreciate that we're gonna have to be forced to.

[Adam Schafer]

Do things real life. I sent you guys. We should watch it experiences. If I don't have Doug can dig it up on our thread because it's, it's a bit of a. I think it's a two minute watch or whatever of Gary Vee. But he, he threw out like his five I think four or five like predictions in the next like five years. Yeah trends or what that. And that's one. I think number two was that was that. And he makes a good point. Like because of this kind of going towards the dead Internet, all the AI stuff like that, the younger generation's privy to this. And so they're not going to get duped.

[Sal Destefano]

Duped.

[Adam Schafer]

They're not gonna get duped by that. And so they will, they will opt out of a lot of that stuff. They'll still use the tool because it's going to be still amazing for a lot of reasons and still build businesses, all things. But they will actively go after real connection, real people in person. And so if you have a business right now and you have a. And a lot of it's built off of social media or virtually the move is to move into. In person. I mean this is this. I think a lot of. Of where we're at. Right. Like we.

[Sal Destefano]

I was just gonna say what a blessing.

[Adam Schafer]

I mean we. We've been moving in the last year to training trainers which requires more of us connecting with these people and actual trainers training people in person or virtually one on one really connected to them. That's been where the direction this business has been moving. So that's where we're going to imagine.

[Doug Egge]

These other fitness people are going to use AI that has AI hallucinations. They're going to have to like, like, you know, account.

[Adam Schafer]

Explain, explain.

[Doug Egge]

Explain why they said this to their client. You get a glitch?

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, I don't know, man.

[Adam Schafer]

No, no.

[Sal Destefano]

It's interesting. So let's take a left here. The new. Have you guys been using the new Caldera lab? The great.

[Doug Egge]

I have. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

So.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay, explain to me the difference between. So there's the good.

[Sal Destefano]

Pull them up.

[Adam Schafer]

There's. And the great. I used the other day. It has. It's less of a. It's not an oil like the.

[Sal Destefano]

It's not an oil. It looks like a.

[Adam Schafer]

Not a serum. I shouldn't say serum is what the other one is.

[Sal Destefano]

But it still has that same.

[Adam Schafer]

It looks to me kind of like the I one is it. Do you know?

[Sal Destefano]

I want to look at the ingredients because when you go on their website they will show studies on what their products produce. And over 90% of the people in these studies using their products, less fine lines, younger looking, healthier looking skin, less acne, less, you know, discoloration in the skin or whatever spots. I mean they kill it. Yeah, they kill it with their products. And now are they. Pull it up. Doug.

[Doug Egge]

Does it use.

[Sal Destefano]

Read what it says. Because I think it uses. I can't remember the term. There's a new technology that they use in the Great.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, really?

[Sal Destefano]

Yes.

[Adam Schafer]

That's different than the rest.

[Sal Destefano]

Correct.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, interesting.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. Can you. Is it not there?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, I'm pulling up right now.

[Sal Destefano]

Okay.

[Justin Andrews]

So, yeah, I do have some notes here if we scroll down.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, exosomes. There you go. That's the word I was looking for. They have plant exosomes in them. 150 billion. So these help deliver the compounds into the skin 20 times better.

[Adam Schafer]

Now, because it's exosomes, they have the ability to patent that, don't they?

[Sal Destefano]

I don't know. Oh, yes, you're right. Patent pending. Yeah. You are absolutely right. Yeah, I. It's the best product to have.

[Justin Andrews]

Have.

[Sal Destefano]

I've used all their products. It's the best one that I've used.

[Adam Schafer]

Interesting period.

[Sal Destefano]

End of story.

[Adam Schafer]

Interest. That's two of our partners now that have got exosomes in their. In their face, stuff like that.

[Sal Destefano]

That's the future.

[Adam Schafer]

It is the future.

[Sal Destefano]

That is the future of. Of skincare products. Yeah. So that's the one right there. It's the great.

[Adam Schafer]

Visibility, reduces wrinkles, improves firmness. Visibility lifts even.

[Sal Destefano]

Evens tone. Even tone.

[Adam Schafer]

Skin hydrates lightweight texture. Safer, sensitive skin. Dermatologist tested.

[Sal Destefano]

Yep. Wow. Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Very cool.

[Sal Destefano]

Yep.

[Justin Andrews]

They.

[Sal Destefano]

They went from a small company to a. A just crushing company in a very short time.

[Adam Schafer]

It's one of the ones that. Yeah, I get like, random people who haven't talked to me in a long time that reach out, that they'll reach.

[Doug Egge]

Out to me, like, hey, you're using the serum or.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, you're the caldera guy. I'm like, nothing. The caldera guy.

[Sal Destefano]

I'm a mind pump. Come on. Yeah, yeah, we just work with it.

[Adam Schafer]

They don't know anything about that, but they know about the face cream, you know, so that's what they know stuff.

[Sal Destefano]

Hormone replacement therapy is a game changer. So are peptides. You want to work with the best, the best doctors, the best pharmacies. Go to mphormones.com, get your blood tests, see if hormone therapy is right for you or if you want to use peptides to accelerate recovery, boost growth hormone, help your sleep, your libido. There's a lot of them out there. Again, this is with real doctors. This is not research, chemical stuff. Mphormones.com Back to the show.

[Justin Andrews]

First question is from Amandalyn, 27 with progressive overload. Is it more than you did recently or more than you've ever done? Sometimes I wonder if I'm building. If I go back to an exercise I haven't done in a while and am progressing week by week, but still lifting less than I have in that exercise in the past.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, it's a good question. So there's a few things that contribute to you being able to lift more. One of them is your muscles are actually bigger and stronger. Another one is your skill of the exercise. If you've practiced an exercise consistently, your ability to perform it improves, which allows you to lift more weight. So if you haven't done it in a while and you go back to it, even though maybe you're stronger, you might not be as strong as you once were before because you just haven't practiced it. Strength athletes know this, but generally speaking, progressive overload refers to your ability to do more than you've done before. The strongest correlate to building muscle is improved or increased strength. But I will say this. It's. It's not perfect because at some point, I mean, you can't get stronger forever. So at some point you're just not gonna always get stronger. So you can also progress by adding volume, slowing down the rep, getting a fuller range of motion, improving your skill ability by doing different exercises. There's a lot of different ways to get the body to.

[Adam Schafer]

So I would answer this. It's week by week, not. Not all time is what I feel like they're asking. Right? Because it's okay. For example, to give you where my lifting is right now, I just squatted the other day and I put 225 on the bar because the last, the previous time I had squatted 185. Now 225 is nowhere near my upper limit of squatting, but I'm still progressively overloading because that's currently where I'm. My, my strength in my squat is. And I'm absolutely seeing strength gains and, and, and size gains from that. And that's more than enough to progressively overload. In fact, if anything, I overreached. I didn't know it need to go from 185 to 225. That was more my ego that wanted to see if I could still move that weight because it's been so long. So it's more to do where you're currently at because yeah, you're not going to be always being stronger than the strongest version of you, and you don't always need to add more weight than what your PR was before. So it's what currently where you're currently at.

[Justin Andrews]

Next question is from Alex dv. Should your first set be the heaviest and then go lighter or Vice versa.

[Sal Destefano]

There's no hard rule here, but you definitely want to be warmed up if you're going to go heavy route. The gates generally though generally you want.

[Adam Schafer]

To ramp it up.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, generally you go light and move your way up to a heavier set and then you go back down to a lighter set. So let's say you're doing, doing three sets of an exercise. It would look like 115, 135, 125. It's called a pyramid. With the rep scheme, if you're really strong, it typically takes longer to ramp back up. That's generally what it looks like. But if you decide like my first set's gonna be my heaviest, which is not conventional, you want to be really warmed up.

[Doug Egge]

I don't know if I've ever done it though.

[Sal Destefano]

I've never done it.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, I have. It's. What is it called? Reverse pyramid? I think. Yeah, I think it's called reverse pyramid. I have done that before. You not you want to prime really well before.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

So I've done that and I've never done it where I go straight to like what I would consider a max lift. But I would consider like this is going to be my heaviest set and then I'm just going to, and each set I'm going to drop down. There's some novelty to it. I think that there's more risk than reward for the average person. You can do it. But I think traditionally I think a traditional pyramid set is what. But I feel best for most people. I feel best that way do. But I have done this before.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, My, my, my almost tip always look like light, heavier, heavy, heaviest then lighter. Lighter. So I typically go up and then come back down.

[Doug Egge]

Yeah, I make big leaps, you know, to kind of get closer sometimes. And, and so you know I won't spend a lot of time with the warm up phase. But it's always a ramp up for me just because I just feel like it's too shocking on, on, on my joints a lot of times. And so that's, that's a deterrent for me.

[Adam Schafer]

I've done that also where I do like a nice, a nice lighter weight for a warm up then go straight to my highest set and then come down too. So there's this isn't, this isn't like a, it's not a hard rule. Yeah, this is not a hard rule. What's right or wrong. It's just keeping in mind, okay, if I were to go my heaviest set first, what are the risks well, the risks are you're not primed, you're not warmed up, you choose a weight that's too heavy and you shouldn't be doing and you end up hurting yourself, yourself. So that's, that's the risk of doing that. But if you do that within, you know, safe parameters, you do a good job priming, you absolutely could do this. It's not a right or wrong thing at all.

[Justin Andrews]

Next question is from Nicolay Sendberg. Does it matter what time you go to bed as long as you get eight hours?

[Sal Destefano]

It matters, but not as much as the eight hours.

[Adam Schafer]

What matters more is the consistency. Right, Sal?

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

So let's say you're always a 11pm person and you get eight hours. That's fine. Or you're always a 8pm person and you go like that.

[Doug Egge]

I mean, circadian rhythms do play a factor to this and you see this with graveyard shift people. So that's, that'd be my only qualm is because I've seen this firsthand with my wife and how detrimental that was on her health.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, no, it, it matters. It's not as, doesn't matter as much as the eight hours or as much as the consistency. But if your eight hours are in the middle of the day and then you're up all night, the data show, even if it's consistent, the data shows how health detriments. You want to be up when the sun comes up, down when the sun comes down, ideally as close as you can to that. That's right. Ideally people go to bed around 9pm 10pm and are up around 6am or something like that. Now it doesn't have to be like that, but typically you want to be kind of within that range. And again, they do have studies on this, so you can be really consistent eight hours. Except you sleep in the morning, you're up at night, and they see health effects of that that are negative. Negative.

[Justin Andrews]

Next question is from bmorgan422. I'm looking to lose fat, but I also want to add some muscle. What should I focus on first? I've been lifting consistently for several years and have put on some belly fat. I'm at about 1600-1700 calories with 130 to 140 grams of protein. Doing muscle, mommy. But the fat doesn't want to leave. Any suggestions?

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, easy answer here. Your calories are already pretty low.

[Adam Schafer]

Reverse diet.

[Sal Destefano]

You don't have a long, you don't have a lot to cut out to cause, to cause yourself to burn body fat. I mean, okay, so let's say you're at 16, 1700. Where are you gonna go now? 1300, build muscle. And then you might lose some body fat and then plateau real hard. Now where do you go? A thousand. Now you're screwed. Right. Build muscle. By the way, that's true for everybody. Like, I don't care where I always say build muscle first because it makes the fat loss way easier. So for this individual reverse diet, build muscle, get your calories up to 23, 20, 400 calories, and then cut from there and watch what happens.

[Adam Schafer]

This is, I mean, the musclemommymovement.com. right. This is where we. This group that we've started, and it actually doesn't matter what program. So even if you are, you're not following Muscle Mommy.

[Doug Egge]

A lot of women are doing this.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Doug Egge]

Right now.

[Adam Schafer]

I would say a bulk of the women in that group right now are focusing and are very similar numbers as this. They're hovering around that calories. They still have body fat to lose, but they. They've never had someone kind of coach them through a reverse diet. And then they're. They're meeting with our trainers once a week, and that's what we're helping a lot of women go through. So if you're not in the muscle mommymovement.com. if you're not in there, get in.

[Sal Destefano]

In there. Yeah. And what's cool about watching that group is watching women experience what a proper reverse diet does. I love seeing these women come back and be like, oh, my God, I got my calories up to this number. I haven't gained a single pound. Or sometimes I actually lost some body fat. This is really weird. Like, what's going on?

[Adam Schafer]

Eating more than they've ever ate. Libido's up, energy's up, strength is up. Every, like, they feel so much better.

[Sal Destefano]

It's great, but it's hard. You know, here's the thing about, you know, reverse dieting especially. Well, all of. All of it's hard. All of it's hard, right? You're on this fitness journey. You're doing it on your own, or you're just trying to listen to the podcast, which is definitely better than nothing. But it can be very difficult because this stuff pops up, and then what do I got to do? And, okay, now I'm doing it, but am I doing it right? And I feel like this or I feel like that. So, you know, group coaching, like, what we offer with the Muscle Mommy movement, super valuable because we have our trainers in there coaching everybody's group. Then there's a forum and you can go in there and ask these questions and other people will help you. The trainers will help you and you have that guidance as you go through this process. Especially, especially the process of reverse dieting. Reverse dieting is a, it's a psychologically challenging process. It feels good, you're stronger, but I'm eating more food. I want to lose body fat. Like, I don't know how, you know, it's very psychologically challenging. It's extremely valuable to have some form of coaching when you're going through that process. Let me tell you, when you get set up with a good reverse diet, the fat loss after is a completely different experience. You've got a metabolism that's humming, you're strong, then you cut your calories, boom, fat comes off your body and you end up in a place where eating more than you were when you first started, like, that's very sustainable. Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. We'll see you at mindpumpmedia.

[Justin Andrews]

Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build shape your body dramatically, improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB super [e-mail] the RGB Super Bundle includes maps, anabolic maps, performance and maps aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos. The RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee and you can get it now. Plus other valuable free [e-mail] if you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review on itunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is Mind Pump.

[Adam Schafer]

From the Cascades to PDX to your.

[Sal Destefano]

Kitchen, we recycle like we live here. That's why governments, brands and recycling companies are all joining together to bring change, to make recycling better. As in trusting that your recyclables end up in the right place.

[Adam Schafer]

Places to be made into new things.

[Sal Destefano]

And having brands help fund the cost of recycling. You can find the Latest updates at recycleon.org Oregon From Mount Hood to the bin under your desk, together we can do this.