2706: The Best 3-Day a Week Back Routine

Summary

Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth

Episode 2706: The Best 3-Day a Week Back Routine

Release Date: October 15, 2025
Hosts: Sal Di Stefano, Adam Schafer, Justin Andrews, Doug Egge

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Overview

In this episode, the Mind Pump crew delivers a deep dive into constructing the ultimate 3-day-per-week back training routine. The conversation explores why back training is foundational for both aesthetics and function, breaking common gym myths, providing nuanced programming recommendations, and sharing personal stories about back development. The team also tackles several listener questions, offering real-world, actionable coaching on programming, nutrition, and goal setting. Infused throughout are candid discussions on family, technology, social trends, and the realities of fitness progression.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Back Training Fundamentals

[05:19]

• The team defines the “back” as a collection of major muscles: erector spinae, lats, rhomboids, traps, teres major/minor, etc.
• Sal: “It's a huge area, huge body part. We're going to talk about training your back, one of the most aesthetic body parts, also one of the most functional.”
• Citing both aesthetic and functional necessity, they emphasize the back’s importance for overall strength, injury resistance, posture, and physique.

2. Early Experiences & Compound Lifts

[05:47–08:10]

• Adam and Justin recall their first exposures to serious back training.
• Sal’s early mentors instilled a love for compound lifts like deadlifts and squats in his teens—contrasted with many who focus on frontside muscle groups.
• Deadlifts and heavy compound movements are highlighted as critical for full back development.

3. Deadlifts: The Foundational Movement

[09:30–15:17]

• Sal dispels the myth that deadlifts “aren’t a back exercise”: “Anybody who has experience with deadlifting will tell you deadlift develops a well developed back. Not just a strong back, but a very, very well [developed one].”
• Adam shares his own progress: after dropping basic rowing movements in favor of deadlifts for months, his back thickness and row strength increased substantially.
  • Quote [14:07] Adam: “The thickness of my back changed, completely changed. And just my overall strength was wild to see that.”
• The deadlift is not just about maximal strength; its isometric demands on the posterior chain are uniquely high.

4. Back Training: Health, Quality of Life, and Aesthetics

[15:17–17:41]

• Coaches prioritize back development for new clients due to its corrective, functional benefits and its influence on quality of life.
• Adam: “It directly combats all the things you do all day long. We're so anteriorly driven...the back is so neglected, humans in general kind of have this rounded...look.”

5. Complexity in Programming for the Back

[17:38–21:18]

• The team discusses why the back cannot be trained as simply as, e.g., the legs, due to its many muscle groups and functions.
• Sal: “Back training...it's not complete unless you involve two or three movements. For lower body, you could do deep squats...Back training, I can't pick just one exercise.”

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The Ultimate 3-Day-Per-Week Back Routine

[18:00–22:11]

Sal presents his ideal back-focused routine for someone looking to maximize back development over three weekly sessions:

Day 1

• Deadlifts: 4 sets x 3 reps (heavy, low-rep, picking a weight you could do for 5–6)
• Close-Grip Pulldowns: 10–12 reps for targeted lat development

Day 2

• Seated Rows: 3 sets x 15 reps (higher volume, less lower back fatigue than barbell rows)
• Pullovers: 3 sets x 15 reps (lat focus, some isolation)

Day 3

• One-Arm Dumbbell Rows: 3 sets x 8 reps

• Wide-Grip Pulldowns or Wide-Grip Pull-Ups: 3 sets x 8 reps (scapular mobility, upper lat focus)

• Justin recommends adding rotation into one-arm rows for extra functional benefits; Adam recognizes both strict (anti-rotation) and rotational forms as valuable.

Memorable Moment:
Adam: “The single best pump I've ever had in my life on my back was doing heavy deadlifts followed by a lat pulldown. It just feels like someone took a bicycle tire pump and just...The most full I've ever felt.” ([21:18])

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Listener Calls & Coaching Segments

1. Optimizing Workout Schedule with a Busy Life

[56:43–65:12]

• Kevin, 41, struggles to maintain intensity during short weekday workouts and asks if a hybrid schedule (short weekday sessions, longer weekend lift) makes sense.
• Advice:
  • Flexibility is key: don't be slave to the 7-day week. Take days off when needed, pick up where you left off.
  • Adam: “For the workouts, get accomplished which is still only a...50 minute workout or less. So Saturday and Sunday, you take two of the days and combine them...”
  • Focus on consistency over strict adherence to calendar routines.

2. Fat Loss Plateau/Muscle Gain for Women

[65:23–72:52]

• Alicia lost 26 pounds, strength-trained for months, but is discouraged by scale stagnation despite visible body comp improvements.
  • Advice:
    • Consider reducing frequency and intensity: switch to a 3-day per week full-body program (Sal: “That's more than you need. But if you're enjoying it...modifying intensity and getting stronger...”)
    • Focus on gradual calorie increase (reverse dieting)
    • Don’t get trapped by the scale—performance & visual progress matter more.

3. Bodybuilding Competition Readiness & Mental Health

[72:52–84:11]

• Angelica wants to compete, but eats too little and is concerned about health issues and relationship with food.
  • Advice:
    • Both Adam and Sal urge her to resolve food/body image issues before considering a show.
    • Focus on health, robust metabolism (get to 3,000 calories/day at 18% body fat).
    • Suggestion: Switch to a strength/Powerlifting program—build experience, enjoy the process, and revisit competitive ambitions in the future.
  • Quote [80:16] Sal: “If you have any body dysmorphia or food relationship issues, [competitive bodybuilding] is the last thing you should do. It will throw you right into dysfunction.”

4. Lean Bulking Struggles with Hunger & Equipment Limits

[86:08–93:07]

• Aaron lost 50lbs, is now lean and wants to bulk, but feels too full eating whole foods and is limited to dumbbells/bench at home.
  • Advice:
    • Don’t force-feed if full; muscle building is slow.
    • If wanting more mass, consider a gym membership or build out home gym (add barbells/racks).
    • Adam: “The next level...is investing in more robust home gym or gym membership where you can start to hit those lifts.”

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Deadlifts:
  “[Deadlift is] the heaviest lift you'll ever do in your entire life when you do consistent strength training...So it's like, why would you not do this one exercise that's going to allow you to lift the most amount of weight? And does that have value? Absolutely.”
  — Sal [10:55]

• On Back Training and Aging:
  “That’s why when you look at somebody 80 years old that hasn’t exercised, they have that closed in shrimp, walker type of [posture]...That’s 70 years of not training the posterior side.”
  — Adam [16:38]

• On Routine Structure:
  “We always look at everything in this seven day snapshot as if that's how our body works. It's okay...Even if it turns into a nine-day week...if you're more consistent than you're not, you're going to be winning.”
  — Adam [64:56]

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Miscellaneous Segments

• [27:00–39:54] Off-topic conversation on the adverse effects of dating apps—which has led to a “winner-take-all” dynamic in online dating, reducing happiness for both sexes.

  • Sal references: “Online all those buffers are gone. Apps give women a real-time global leaderboard of male attractiveness status… the 1% and perceived value…”

• [53:45–55:50]
  Introduction of Fatty15 (C15) supplement, likening its novel anti-inflammatory impact to Omega-3’s, predicting mainstream adoption soon.

• [49:50–51:38]
  Halloween talk (haunted houses, kids’ reactions, Tesla “ghosts” on car sensors)—lighthearted, showing hosts’ personalities and rapport.

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Timestamps of Key Segments

• Intro to Back Training: [05:19–10:04]
• Deadlifts: Function & Aesthetics: [10:04–15:17]
• Back Health, Quality of Life, and Coaching: [15:17–18:00]
• 3-Day a Week Back Routine Outline: [18:00–22:11]
• Listener Call #1 (Scheduling Workouts): [56:43–65:12]
• Listener Call #2 (Fat Loss Breakthrough): [65:23–72:52]
• Listener Call #3 (Comp Prep & Food Relationship): [72:52–84:11]
• Listener Call #4 (Lean Bulk & Equipment): [86:08–93:07]

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Takeaways

• The back requires diverse, compound, and sometimes isolating movements for full development. A deadlift-focused routine, paired with vertical/horizontal pulls and some isolation, offers maximum results for both looks and function.
• Proper fitness programming must adapt to lifestyle—not the other way around.
• Chasing aesthetics at the cost of health or sound nutrition is a dead end; focus on robust habits for sustainable transformation.
• The Mind Pump team continues their ethos of practical, no-nonsense coaching buttressed by decades of collective experience and a true passion for helping listeners thrive.

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Stay fit, expand your mind, and follow Mind Pump for raw fitness truth.

Transcript

[Sal Destefano]

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[Adam Schafer]

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[Sal Destefano]

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[Sal Destefano]

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[Adam Schafer]

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[Sal Destefano]

You want to Pump your body and expand your mind. There's only one place to go. Mind Pump. Mind Pump.

[Adam Schafer]

With your hosts Sal Destefano, Adam Schaefer.

[Doug]

And Justin Andrews, you just found the.

[Sal Destefano]

Most downloaded fitness, health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump. Today's episode we had live callers call in and we got to coach them on Air Force for their fitness and health. So people call in, we have a good time with them. But this was after the intro. Today's intro was 50 minutes long. In the intro, we talk about fitness, we talk about family life, current events. It's always a good time. By the way, if you want to be coached by us live on our podcast, send us your question. Send it to live mindpumpmedia.com now this episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Crisp Power. These are delicious pretzels that are very high in protein. A single bag, 200 calories, 26 grams of protein. They have lots of amazing flavors like cheddar, cinnamon. They have flaming flavor, lots of different flavors, very delicious, high in protein. Go check them out. Go to crispower.com, use the code mindpump10. Get 10% off. This episode is also brought to you by fatty15. This is a fatty acid that has been shown to lower inflammation, improve insulin sensitivity, essentially make you more healthy. It's not an omega 3 fatty acid either. It's actually a saturated fat with health benefits. So if you want to lower inflammation, potentially improve your body's ability to utilize glucose as energy through improved insulin sensitivity, go check them out. Go to fatty15.com, that's fatty15.com mindpump on that link. If you go mind pump as a code, you can get 15% off their 90 day subscription starter kit. Also this month, Maps GLP1 is half off. This is a workout program that includes of course, a workout, diet advice, supplement advice, lifestyle advice for people who are using a GLP1. So if you're using Ozempic, Wegovy, Tirzepatide, Semaglutide, if you're using those want to maximize fat loss, you want to keep your muscle. You don't want to lose muscle. You don't want your metabolism slow down. This is the program for you. It's specifically designed for you. Go check it out. Go to mapsglp1.com use the code GLP50 for the 50% off discount. All right, real quick.

[Justin Andrews]

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[Adam Schafer]

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[Doug]

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[Adam Schafer]

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[Doug]

Six winners this week. Three for Apple podcasts, three for Facebook. The Apple podcast winners are Jade need nickname, Xbox360 fun and jefe of the Hill. And for Facebook, we have Robert Klein, Bo Shakespeare, and Juan Soto. All six of you are winners. Send the name I just read to itunesindpumpmedia.com include your shirt size and your shipping address and we'll get that shirt right out to you.

[Sal Destefano]

All right, let's talk about back training. When we refer to the back, we're talking about a lot of different muscles. The erector spinae, the latissimus dorsi, the rhomboids, the trapezius teres major minor, just to name some. It's a huge area, huge body part. We're going to talk about training your back, one of the most aesthetic body parts, also one of the most functional. You need a strong back if you want to be amazing strong and functional. Let's get into it.

[Adam Schafer]

Do you remember how old you were when you. You really started doing the big gross motor movements for your back? Or were you. Because I know I was like, very much so. Machine seated row, kid lat pull down for a long time before I got into, like barbell rows and deadlifting and T bar row and like these big motor movements. Do you remember how old or did you get? I know you got into like some of those big lifts early. Were you pretty early?

[Sal Destefano]

I was young, man. I was young. So I. Because I got so infatuated early on, and I got into strength training in the mid-90s when I was 14. So this was like during the reign of Dorian Yates and before him was Lee Haney. But I got right when I was, like, really getting into it was Dorian Yates and he was known for having this massive back. So I'm in the. I'm into it. I'm reading about how important the back is. And then I encountered some older power lifters early in my career that convinced me to squat and to deadlift. And the deadlift was a natural lift for me right out the gates. So I was really blessed, Adam, to just right out the gates. Value compound lifts and value these, these big gross motor movements. But I know a lot of people don't early on, and I Know the back is, it's behind you, you don't see it.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, you guys were more snatch in the friend.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, we didn't emphasize it as much. And again my exposure was through sports and training together as a team. And so it was very bench heavy, overhead press heavy and. And then we would do power cleans and so you'd still have to deadlifted off of the ground into like a squatted clean. So I used, I did some decent weight with that. But like we did, we did dumbbell rows and that was about it. Honestly, that's like my full exposure between that and pull ups. So it took a while for me to really build and develop grip and back.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, it's one of those, it's an interesting. So it's funny because in strength training we refer to body parts as if it's one muscle. It's like legs, you know, back is a lot of muscles. Yeah, there's a lot together. Yeah, it's like one of those, one of those areas. You know, you talk about bodybuilding talks about hitting the body or body parts from different angles. That's got to be the body part that, that's most true for. Right. Because you have. I named them all in the beginning and more. Right. It's. There's so many muscles back there. And also I mentioned how functional is like a strong back connects to strong hips. That's very important for athletics. Strong hips and back. I can't think of a sport that, that doesn't benefit and in bodybuilding or kind of physique presentation sports, remember they value what once meant. You were athletic and functional. So it's become distorted over the years because they don't ask bodybuilders or physique presentation athletes to do anything. But the original kind of were the roots of what they consider to be aesthetic. Right. A strong back, I mean that comes from truth, which is like if you have a weak back, I mean, look, here's your evidence. The most often injured area of the body is the back, in particular the lower back. This is the place most people get hurt or have pain. So it's an incredibly important area to train. And then aesthetically speaking, all physique presentation sports will tell you that the competition is won when the competitors turn around. Yeah, this is true for men and women. So you'll see this in even bikini. And yes, the glutes are important, but the back is almost, if not equally important for also for women. It makes you look fit or makes you not look fit. It can make you for Men look powerful or not look so powerful. So it's a very important area. And there's a lot of confusion sometimes around back training, like, what's important, what's not important. There's a lot of confusion in particular on the. An exercise like a deadlift. You'll hear sometimes people, and this really annoys me, people say, well, it's not really a back exercise, it's a hip movement. It doesn't really target the lats. And you know, everything's kind of isometric and when you're holding the weight up or whatever. But anybody who has experience with deadlifting will tell you deadlift develops a well developed back. Not just a strong back, but a very, very well.

[Adam Schafer]

You've set the table, I think, or we've set the table on this podcast for quite some time now promoting isometrics and all the incredible studies that surround the benefits of that. And you will not find a movement that is a greater isometric for the back. Like you just.

[Sal Destefano]

The amount is so high.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, you're not, even if you're a really strong barbell rower, seated rower, lap pull down dumbbell rower, you're not doing no £500.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Know what I'm saying? Unless you're someone very, very rare. But most people aren't doing more than £200. And yet a lot of, a lot of guys can deadlift 3, 4, 500 pounds. And so, yeah, think of that. That isometric contraction in, in a. With £500 is just the response to that is insane.

[Sal Destefano]

Well, for most people, this isn't true for everybody. But generally speaking, because there are people who could squat more than they deadlift. But generally speaking, the, the heaviest lift you'll ever do in your entire life when you do consistent strength training, if you practice all the big lifts, is the deadlift. So if you were to take 10 people or a hundred people and you had them strength trained for 10 years and with good programming, traditional strength training, and they had to lift the most possible weight they could with any lift, probably 8 or 9 out of 10 of them would be the deadlift. So it's like, why would you not do this one exercise that's going to allow you to lift the most amount of weight? And does that have value? Absolutely. Just being able to hold that much weight has tremendous value. So deadlifts are. And what's cool about this is that deadlifts are now popular, but there was a while there where nobody was deadlifting, which was just absolutely wild to me because it's also super functional. You get really strong at a deadlift and you can really bulletproof your low back. And then the carryover. This is the wild part for me. My favorite example of this is a personal example with Adam. This is my favorite, favorite example. I've seen this. I knew this would happen. Like, if you asked me, what do you predict is going to happen out of this, I would have probably guessed properly. But literally on the show, if you go back far enough in mind pumps episodes. We've been on air for 10 years, so this was probably eight years ago. I would say maybe nine years ago.

[Adam Schafer]

Nine years at the very beginning.

[Sal Destefano]

The very beginning. Right, Adam, and I'll tell your story, but I'd love you for you to add for it. Physique competitor jacked, became a pro. Rarely ever deadlifted, but did all the other great lifts, had a great physique, didn't have a weak back. It's like you beat your back, was your weak body part, decided to just get strong at deadlifts. You essentially eliminated most of the back exercises, went back to those other back exercises months later and were stronger at all.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, significantly stronger. It was the wildest thing I'd ever seen to. Because, because law specificity is so important in lifting weights. Yes. Understanding that meaning, like if you practice a certain lift, that's the best way to get strongest at that list.

[Sal Destefano]

Yes.

[Adam Schafer]

And that really applies to most all lifts. The difference here was, okay, so, so based off of that, knowing that I had 10 years, over 10 years of doing an exercise like, and I love seated row. I used to love to do seated row was one of my favorite lifts. I used to start, I used to start all back exercises or back days with a seated row. And I could, I could pull a lot of weight doing that to eliminate that out of my routine for six, eight months. It was, it was quite, sometimes almost a year to just focus on the deadlift. I expected to come back and see.

[Sal Destefano]

Which would be reasonable.

[Adam Schafer]

Right. See somewhat of a, of a decline. Right. And to hit a PR the first time I grabbed that cedar row after night, it blew my mind. But now granted, I went from a guy who started just learning how to deadlift at 200 something pounds and worked my way all the way to 550 pound deadlift. And so I definitely got strong and my back looked different. It looked like a different back completely. I've always had a narrow waist, wide shoulders. And so to your point, I don't think I was ever told, oh, you have a smaller.

[Sal Destefano]

I think it was one of Your better body parts.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, it was. Aesthetically, it looked good for showing as far as what they look for that V taper. But the thickness of my back changed, completely changed. And just my overall strength was wild to see that. And I have some pictures I wish I kept a lot.

[Sal Destefano]

You had a before and after.

[Adam Schafer]

I did have a good before and after. If you go deep enough back, I think on my Instagram page, maybe even that old Top podcast. But I didn't go into it. I didn't go into it with that intention. I just wanted to get stronger. In fact, it was more of a fun, competitive thing with you. I remember we always talk trash back.

[Sal Destefano]

And forth when we first get ahead on you.

[Adam Schafer]

And you were, you were so strong on the deadlift. And I was like, you know, and you're always making the case for what an important movement was. And being honest, I had neglected that lift for a very long time. I admittedly have always been the guy who. I don't really care how much I squat deadlift with that. I just, I cared about what I look like. And you really convinced me to. To put effort into building my strength. There's. And so I just went on a kick and really just try to compete with the numbers, like, how strong can I get doing this? And the outcome of that was the aesthetics that I got from it was incredible.

[Sal Destefano]

You know what's cool about this too is this is a body part or area that is very important for trainers and everyday clients.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

This is at near the top, if not at the top of the priority list when you get a brand new client. So you get somebody who's deconditioned. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

It's very correctional.

[Sal Destefano]

And you. Yes, you are like, for sure. We're going to strengthen your back. We're going to help you with scapular retraction and stability. I'm going to help you with lumbar stability. I'm going to make your back strong because even though you don't care about looking jacked or whatever, you just want to be more fit and healthy. If I get your back strong, you are stronger. If I get your back strong, the. Your quality of life improves dramatically. So it's interesting because it's not only like this important aesthetic body part, but it was also like, shoulders are an important.

[Adam Schafer]

Better.

[Justin Andrews]

You move better.

[Adam Schafer]

You guys have to explain, though, why. Why that is because of it. It directly combats all the things that you do all day long.

[Sal Destefano]

That's right.

[Adam Schafer]

Right. So like, we are so anteriorly. Yeah, we're so anteriorly driven. So just going about your day in your life, you're going to get some shoulder pack, you know, quad. You're going to get a lot of the muscles on the front of your body working because we do everything in front of us. And so because the back is so neglected, humans in general kind of have this.

[Sal Destefano]

That's right.

[Adam Schafer]

Rounded, you know, which is why when you look at somebody 80 years old that hasn't exercised, they have that closed in shrimp look, Walker type of. They didn't just get that way overnight. That's 70 years of not training the posterior side. So to your point, the reason why it's, it's so. So unbelievable and a staple for people who don't even care about the aesthetics, but just want to feel good, move good. It became the staple of my training. It was like everybody trained back. Like, I didn't care what your goal was. And a lot of my programming was really centered around that because I real, I recognize, like, you know, my most, my clients, everybody wanted to lose some body fat. Everyone cared about looking a little bit, but that wasn't their. Most people. Most clients that I got were, I just want to feel better. I want to, I want, I want to get rid of this chronic pain. And because of that, and you see how much training the back, the posterior chain does for that. You quickly, as a trainer, if you've trained enough people, you quickly realize, oh, wow, this needs to be a cornerstone in my training.

[Sal Destefano]

What's wild is neck, shoulder pain, low back pain, upper back tension. Like you go to the, you go get a massage. Where do they press on that? You get relief. It's almost always traps or back, you know. Oh, yeah, really work on my back. I'm real. These are people who are sedentary. Okay. Why is that? There's a lot of dysfunction back there. Shoulder pain oftentimes comes from scapular dysfunction or back weakness. Okay, neck pain, back, that's a back issue. Horse low back. We know that knee pain sometimes comes from a week back. So it's a very important area. And then esthetically speaking, if you want to look more fit, one of the fastest ways to do that is to develop your back. If you want to look leaner, one of the best places to start is to develop your back. It has this profound effect on your aesthetics. It's one of the most important areas that you train. And so workout programming is always important. It's important for the whole body. But because the back is so complex, because there's so many different moving parts Programming can be more complex with the back than it can be with other areas. I would say the hips are kind of up there as well, you know, posterior chain in general. But when you think of like back training, it's, it's not complete unless you involve two or three movements. For lower body, you could do deep squats. Good technique and you're probably not going to develop any major imbalances. Now I'm not saying that's perfect, but you're going to get some good hamstring development. Quad, you know, you're going to get all that, you know, glutes in there. Back training. I can't pick just one exercise. There's typically three at least that are needed to complete the workout program because of the complexity of the back. And so what I want to do, and you guys don't even know what I wrote up, you're seeing it right now. This would be for me a good general three day a week routine for back for somebody. So somebody who's like, look, this is a priority for me. I want to develop my back. I want to get a really strong, well developed back muscles, lats, rhomboids, low back, the whole deal. Here's what a routine would look like, generally speaking for this person and I'll kind of go through and talk about my rationale. So it's three days a week. Day one is deadlifts and close grip pull down. So deadlifts, you're doing low reps. Deadlifts are one of those exercises. You can do high reps with deadlifts, but they really lend themselves well to low reps. They just do, it's better. So you're doing four sets of three reps and you're picking a weight you could probably do five or six with. That's what you're doing three with. So you're not going, you're not maxing out. And then close grip pull downs are really good at targeting the lats. You get a good stretch at the top. And so with something like that, 10 to 12 reps, then you skip a day or two, you go to your second workout. Now you're doing seated rows. I like seated rows. You could also do barbell rows. Why did I put barbell rows on day two? Because you deadlifted on day one. So I'm just kind of giving you a little bit of a peek into programming. If you did deadlifts two days later. Supporting a barbell for barbell rows might not be a good idea for some people just because the lumbar spine, the lumbar muscles might be a little fatigued. So seated row we're gonna do three sets, 15 reps. Now we're doing higher reps and then we're gonna do pullovers. I love pullovers. This is more of a lat isolescent isolation exercise. You're doing three sets of 15 reps. Day three would be one arm dumbbell rows. Three sets of eight reps and then wide grip pull down. So another pull down movement, a little wider grip just because it involves a scapula a little differently, a little bit of different shoulder function. Three sets of eight reps. So that, that's kind of good general routine. What do you guys think about that? Do you guys have anything you want to add?

[Adam Schafer]

I have a comment on how much I love day one. The, the single.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, it's great.

[Adam Schafer]

Best pump I've ever had in my life on my back was doing heavy deadlifts like that. So working in the 3 to 5 rep range followed by a lat pull down. And it's the most full I've ever felt my entire back. Like I just up until that point before I had deadlifted, I had never felt a full back pump at one time until I did that back to back right there. Until I did a heavy, heavy four or five sets of deadlifts followed by lat pull downs. And it just feels like it, you. It's the most incredible.

[Sal Destefano]

It's like someone took a bicycle tire pump and just.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, it's just the most. If you've, if you're listening to this and you've never done done those in combination like that. Heavy deadlifts like that followed by lap pull down. It is the most ultimate feeling.

[Justin Andrews]

I like it. I think the, the day three. I like the wide grip pull down. Sometimes I might do a pull up, you know, with the wide grab for that to replace. But it's pretty much the same actions now.

[Sal Destefano]

Now you would probably. I'm sure Justin involves some kind of rotation in this for the functional component. Yes.

[Justin Andrews]

Usually in the one arm rows with the dumbbells. I try to add a bit of rotation with those.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Just to get that kind of function.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, I like that. I like what you're saying. Less bodybuilding, more functional. Although not, I mean, look, I mean.

[Justin Andrews]

I'm not, I'm not above this.

[Adam Schafer]

So.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, that's a fun work.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, you're still getting at least with the one arm dumbbell row some rotation. You're getting some anti rotation and at least controlling and stabilizing those muscles that are so important to that component. And you could totally do that. I could. Like, I used to do that where some weeks I would be very strict and I would be more anti rotation. Other weeks I would. Yeah, I would actually intentionally rotate in the row. Yeah, I think there's a lot of benefits. You know, that's actually a great topic. We haven't talked about that in a long time. There's a. I remember I used to see the controversy online a lot about that of, like, people critiquing dumbbell rows as if one was right, one was wrong. And it's like, no, they both are incredible exercises. And depending on your desired outcome, you do that. So if you want a very. If you want to emphasize anti rotation or the ability to keep your body from rotating and the muscles required to stabilize like that, you keep yourself in a very fixed, solid, flat position in that back. And if you want to incorporate some of those rotating muscles, then you actually intentionally kind of saw and row through the movement. And when one's not right or wrong or better than the other, they both are incredible exercises. And so that's a way you can.

[Sal Destefano]

Get strong at those. You start the lawnmower with one pull. That's right. Do people even have that anymore? Is that even a lawnmower?

[Justin Andrews]

I mean, I have one for a weed whacker. And it does take, you know, a lot of that. That tension.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. Remember that meme?

[Justin Andrews]

It still exists if you get gas powered.

[Sal Destefano]

What was that meme? It said something like. Like some guys, like, I started my neighbor's lawnmower with one pole. I totally flexed on it.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, that's. That is a flex. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Like chopping wood with one swing.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, that's a good one. So, hey, this. So one of our partners, the protein pretzel, by the way, these last three seconds in the studio. Yeah. We just got into the box of these new flavors.

[Justin Andrews]

I like the cinnamon flavor flavors.

[Sal Destefano]

So this is cinnamon crunch Doug has over there. What is that one?

[Doug]

Flaming hot Flamin Crunch.

[Sal Destefano]

Flamin Crunch.

[Doug]

And cheddar.

[Sal Destefano]

And cheddar, which is another one Justin loves. And they're all plant based. If you can't do dairy, whatever. Here's the macros on this bag. So this is, like, crazy that they're making snacks like this that are just. The macros are ridiculous. 200 calories. So this bag's 200 calories. 7 grams of fat, 15 grams of carbs, 26 grams of protein. This has 26 grams of protein in this bag.

[Adam Schafer]

I mean, I'm here, I'm here for this type of stuff because we talk.

[Sal Destefano]

A lot, they taste, we talk a.

[Adam Schafer]

Lot about how, how difficult it is for people to consistently hit their protein intake. And we're now at a place with the market has spoken up and you see a lot of these products now popping up that they've got 20, 30 grams of protein. And if you just have a cupboard that has all these types of things, then the excuse of. Because snacking used to kill my clients. In fact, I've came out and said on this podcast a long time ago that, you know, I used to tell clients that snacking is a made up word. It's something that it's what we call an incomplete meal.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

And it's true. It's like you eat one, you eat a snack many times and it's just all carb or it's all fat. It's like, it's, it's hard to find a snack that is complete. And these snacks now or these companies are creating this, it's like, man, if I just have a bunch of this stuff in my cupboard, then even when I'm in a not the mood to make a meal and I grab a snack like that, I can still stay on pace for hitting my daily protein.

[Sal Destefano]

Well, here's what's cool about that. You hit your protein targets and yes, it's still considered a processed food. And yes, those are still, they're still engineered to be really tasty. That's what they're all like. These also are engineered to taste really tasty. Here's the thing about protein though. Even though it comes in a pretzel and it's cinnamon flavored or flaming, you know, and cheddar, you'll still find this will, this will hit satiety much faster.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Because the protein you.

[Sal Destefano]

Yes.

[Adam Schafer]

You talked about this the other day about beef jerky. It's like, you're not going to overeat beef jerky. Like you can eat one of those.

[Sal Destefano]

Little bags and you're like, you eat one of these. So if I. One bag of chips that was this big, for sure I'd want two more. Yeah, for sure. You eat one bag of that with 26 grams of protein, you're pretty good.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

It satiates you.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Which is, which I like. Which is probably one of the reasons why they don't typically put a lot of protein in snacks. Because they're like, we're not, they're not eating a ton of them.

[Adam Schafer]

Counterproductive. It's Expensive. And then it's also.

[Sal Destefano]

That's right.

[Adam Schafer]

Counter to people eating. That's such a good point.

[Sal Destefano]

I got to read you guys a post that I saw on X about dating apps, and I thought it was app. I saved it and I. I thought it was.

[Justin Andrews]

So I've heard some again, like, I'm pretty clueless because I haven't been on any of those things, but I've heard some. I think Vicki was telling me this morning about there's some app that, like, where women can just bash on, like, dates they've had about men. And I was just like, that one got toxic at all.

[Sal Destefano]

Did you hear that? It got hacked.

[Justin Andrews]

No.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, dude. So women were going on. They're like, don't date this guy. He's bad and bad.

[Justin Andrews]

Right, right.

[Sal Destefano]

Somebody hacked it and released these, like, who these women were or whatever, which is like. That's messed up too. Yeah. But. Oh, my God.

[Adam Schafer]

So there's another. There's another. I didn't know you guys were going to talk. I wish I would have known because Katrina. Katrina's brother had some stuff on. On. There's an app, and I forget what it's called, but it's designed where girls can go on there and talk about, like, these guys. There's a name. There's a name for that. You don't know what it is. Oh, yeah, still the T. Yes.

[Justin Andrews]

Yes.

[Sal Destefano]

That's.

[Adam Schafer]

That's.

[Justin Andrews]

That's what.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes.

[Justin Andrews]

He told me.

[Sal Destefano]

These apps are terrible. So I. I remember when dating, you know, you hear something crazy. Back in 1997, remember the Internet was, you know, dial up and all that stuff. The assistant manager at the gym that I worked at, I'm not gonna say his name because he listens to the show, but he wanted to go into business to start a dating app to a dating website. Back then, there were no apps, and he's talking about, this is the future of dating, and it's gonna make it so much better, and you're gonna have more opportunities and people are gonna meet, you know, be able to meet their partner. I remember hearing him. I had no interest in investing in this company or whatever, but I remember listening to him going, like, well, that makes sense. Now you have the opportunity to meet more people, to talk to more people. Dude, check. So now we have data on what data data apps have started, and this guy wrote one of the best posts on it. So I'm gonna. I'm gonna read. Read you what he wrote. He says this image is a snapshot of a civilizational algorithm at work, it's showing you how when you digitize and scale a human selection process, you don't just reveal biology, you amplify it into a self organizing system. What you're looking at is the shape of sexual selection under near perfect information. Offline. This is brilliant. Women's selectivity is tempered by friction. Limited pools, community oversight, reputational cost, time restraint, restraints. Men and women meet through networks. So even average men, quote unquote average men, meaning most men can still find partners because they bring other non quantifiable assets to the table. Status within a small group. Familiarity, trust. Like all my friends know you, they know you're a nice guy. That kind of.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Online all those buffers are gone. Apps give women a real time global leaderboard of male attractiveness status. So the 1% and perceived value, their evolved trip off this. Their evolved filter which is supposed to protect them from pregnancy and resource risk, suddenly has a fire hose of data. It goes into hyper mode, collapses subtle distinctions and produces the kind of distribution you're seeing because he posts this chart that shows exactly what you're saying.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes.

[Sal Destefano]

That 1% of the men get 90% of the attention and the rest of the men are totally invisible.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes.

[Sal Destefano]

So here's what it shows. Hypergamy. So hypergamy. Hypergamy gone systemic. A small fraction of men capture almost all the attention. Everyone else becomes invisible. Winner take all dynamics. Dating markets behave like TikTok in capital markets. Now if you go viral, the rest flat line collapse of the middle. The average male disappears from sexual market the way the middle class disappears from the economy under globalization. A little controversial there, but whatever Feedback loop. The more this dynamic accelerates, the more each side's strategy hardens. You ready for this? Men get more desperate or check out. Women get more selective but less satisfied. It's a negative sum equilibrium. If you strip away morality, what you're seeing is nature's base code exposed and scaled. It isn't women being unfair or men being victims. It's an emergent system where old evolutionary heuristics collide with new technological conditions. It produces exactly this distribution. So it's a chart that shows the distribution of how women are picking men. And then what men do is they're just going like do what I can. And then the men at the top. Here's what's crazy about this. The men who are getting all the attention are becoming less and less likely to become monogamous. Of course, because they're getting all this attention. So it literally destroys, it's destroying Dating, it's destroying relationships because technology is. It's amplifying what women do, and it's amplifying what men tend to do when they have that kind of selection.

[Caller or Guest]

Wow.

[Sal Destefano]

How crazy is that?

[Adam Schafer]

It's crazy. It's funny because you get a lot of people that praise it because they met their spouse or significant other on. On a dating app and it worked for them. I know my mom. That's how my mom met her husband. And, like. But I kind of wondered what this would look like when you played it out 5, 10, 15 years. And what's happened is, like, you're right. Like, the. The 1% has rose to the top, and they have all the selection in the world, and then everybody else just got gobbled up.

[Sal Destefano]

I know guys who are six foot tall make, you know, well over six figures. You know, they're in their now early 40s, and they just have. They just pick whoever they want. They don't care.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, I have a buddy.

[Justin Andrews]

I have a big one. Right. They write, like, they make sure they let other women know, like, no, he's not really, like, six foot. Give a heads up.

[Adam Schafer]

And it's like, no, my. I have a buddy who's doesn't really make. Who's our age. Yeah. And you know, he'll have five dates a week.

[Sal Destefano]

Yep.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Just lined up because he's got those. Those.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. But I'm happy and lonely.

[Sal Destefano]

That's the part. Everybody's unhappy and lonely. That's the part that's crazy about it.

[Adam Schafer]

But yet who. I mean, what. At least not in, like, I don't remember anybody when we were growing up that could say they dated five different girls in the same week before something like this happened.

[Sal Destefano]

No, you had to be in, like, you had to be a celebrity.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or you had to be, like, in the nightclubs every night, you know, for something like that to even possibly happen. And so, you know, naturally, that would never happen. But now it's so easy that he just picks his phone up and he can literally book.

[Sal Destefano]

Watch this.

[Adam Schafer]

Five dates.

[Sal Destefano]

Watch this, Doug. If you can use AI or the search, say, what are the. Say what percentage of men in America are over 6ft tall, make over $150,000 a year, and don't have children and are in their late 20s. And let's see what that comes up. It's a very small percentage. Yeah. And so. And then. So what's happening is women who are naturally selective, they're supposed to be.

[Adam Schafer]

Which, by the way, tends to be like, the the top three things that most women.

[Sal Destefano]

That's right.

[Adam Schafer]

So you are looking for.

[Sal Destefano]

That's right.

[Adam Schafer]

For someone. Those heights, you know, you're looking for someone that makes decent. Decent amount of income and maybe not have kids yet.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

It's like.

[Sal Destefano]

Yes. And watch what happens when he. When he.

[Adam Schafer]

Now you didn't throw six pack abs or fit.

[Sal Destefano]

No, you put in there. You put your 0.2%. I remember I did that to my wife once to make her feel. I was like, hey, babe, look how rare I am.

[Justin Andrews]

You're really killing it.

[Sal Destefano]

It backfired. Oh, yeah. She was so mad at me. What do you think you are, dude? Oh, no. What does that say, Doug? Did you pull it up?

[Doug]

Yeah, it's less than 2%.

[Sal Destefano]

Less than 2%.

[Doug]

Well, 2.3%.

[Sal Destefano]

2.3%.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. And that's not even throwing in the fit part.

[Sal Destefano]

No.

[Adam Schafer]

You're including guys that are not fit.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. Throwing their fit.

[Adam Schafer]

Under 15. Under 15% body fat. You don't have to put ripped, just put under 15% body fat. That cuts that big time.

[Sal Destefano]

So. And the reason why this happens is women are supposed to be selective. This is not a bad thing that they're selective. They make men kind of present themselves and shape up or whatever. But when they have this, like the guy said fire hose of. Of access. Now you have. Well, this is. This is now the dude that can date 15 women and then other really good guys who would. He would probably be very happy getting with and marrying and whatever. Having kids with. Doesn't even get your attention.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, you have a celebrity example of this. We've talked about this kind of off air about. We're watching in real time happen to Dan Bilzerian.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

I mean, you like, he. Now he's talking monogamy and stuff like that. But it's like the guys had so much access to all the like the 1% supermodel girls that imagine trying to settle down after that. It's just unbelievably difficult. Even though I think he believes that that's the right thing to do and that's where he wants to be stuck. I think he. Didn't he get married? Did he? Actually, I think he did get married.

[Sal Destefano]

Did he?

[Adam Schafer]

I think.

[Sal Destefano]

No way.

[Adam Schafer]

I think so. I mean, I don't follow him closely enough. I just remember when that, that came out where he started talking about monogamy. No, he's not married. Okay, so he isn't. Maybe he was just talking about it. Yeah, yeah, but that. I mean, imagine how difficult that Is so it's like in a sense both people are losing out. Which is weird though because don't you guys feel like I don't hear that from people and maybe it's just because I'm talking to the people that it worked for, you know, like, like do you hear. I don't hear a lot of like, you know, even my. But who. Even my buddy who were I'm describing and so that he's not complaining about the app.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

He's not complaining about. I see it from the outside looking.

[Sal Destefano]

In going like, you know what too. I know who you're talking about. Love him. He's a great guy. Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, yeah, he fits. He's like six foot, good looking.

[Sal Destefano]

Poor guy though.

[Adam Schafer]

Poor guy.

[Sal Destefano]

Because as time goes on, you know he's gonna look back and be like, oh man, what did I do?

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

You know?

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Oh, so I mean, so what's the answer though? Right?

[Sal Destefano]

So meet people around you. Meet people through friends, meet people through community. Go outside, talk to people.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

You know, that's the way to do it.

[Adam Schafer]

I think all this is more just pointing more towards what I believe what I think is the pendulum is going to swing back. I think you're right. You know Community. Yeah. Did you guys hear about the. That new app that are service. You know, like dog walking has been a thing for a long time. Right. Like you could like you can get online and find some people to walk your dog with that like human walking is a, is a, is a service now. Like. But that just show that. But that highlights so how much we're thirsty.

[Sal Destefano]

You're not talking about the weird kind in San Francisco. No, no, no, no.

[Adam Schafer]

Not that kind of like I've seen that. Literally that's how much. How thirsty we are for connection with other people.

[Sal Destefano]

They sign up to walk together.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. That people want to do that. Which by the way I've told this to our in house trainers and our trainers that we, we coach and mentor and Stu, if you're a trainer, I think this is such the move right now.

[Justin Andrews]

Walking groups.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes. Is starting a walking group for free where you just meet with people once a week or a couple times a week at 7am or 8, whatever time works and offer the service at free and turn it into a big community thing. And if you do it for free, watch how many people you can get to do it. And then once you got that many people for free, watch how many people convert into clients.

[Sal Destefano]

You know, change subject. Because I see a note up here and reminded me of something. I think you wrote this up there, Justin. So I want to know what you. What you have to say. But. Yeah, I took my daughter to a football game on Saturday. And we pull into the parking lot. It was at one of the colleges here.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

And she's like football, she's hanging out with friends, right. But we pull in the parking lot and I'm waiting for her friends to show up. So while we're in the parking lot, I see these kids organizing something. And what it was is they were organizing this boy to ask this girl to homecoming. So her friends kind of brought her over there and he comes out with this big sign of dudes dressed up in this costume. And they'd big. This big. They do this big elaborate thing, you know, Which I don't. We didn't really do that when we were kids.

[Adam Schafer]

Right.

[Sal Destefano]

We just asked. Yeah, did you guys, did you guys do that?

[Adam Schafer]

High school people?

[Justin Andrews]

But you know. Yeah, it wasn't really like a huge thing like it is now. It's just like everything else. Like there's the push present, there's this present, there's that present.

[Sal Destefano]

I don't know.

[Justin Andrews]

I feel like things get so invented.

[Adam Schafer]

When we were, when we were kids. Sadie Hawkins was a big event like that because the girls were creative like that. So girls would always make like. I remember my girlfriend made like this, this elaborate candy. Candy bar, like poem asking me things like this big cardboard thing. And like all the, all the, all the candy bars were part of the, the, the. The poem or whatever like that to ask me to the dance, you know, so girls used to do that at least when we were in high school when the girls asked the guys.

[Sal Destefano]

So much more thoughtful.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, well, yeah. No, really. I'm sure as time has gone on the, the new generation of, you know.

[Sal Destefano]

Because they film them, they were actually filming it. So I know they're gonna, they're gonna post that. I saw these kids filming it.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, yeah, and it's funny because my son went. And I was bringing it up because he went stag and his other friends did too. And they were just like over it because of a lot of this stuff, like with women's expectations, like these girls like it. Again, this is really unappealing to young men.

[Sal Destefano]

You know what's crazy about.

[Justin Andrews]

You're talking about go hang out.

[Sal Destefano]

You're talking about Ethan, right? Yeah, He's a good looking, jacked tall kid. Yeah, he's actually a very good looking tall. I mean he, he's a gymnast, top level. So he and you're telling me he's sick of.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh my God.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, and I mean, he, he had a girlfriend early on, like when he went to school at this new school. And then, you know, they parted ways amicably. But it, it, it's still like, I guess there's like chatter and all this. So he's dealing with like, you know, once one girl says something, then all the girls they think of, you know, he's a certain way or whatever and he's just like over the drama of it all. And it's like, I'm like, yeah, you don't have to do that. I was like, your best solution right now, just focus on getting jacked.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Pay attention to that always. They could say whatever they want, but when you're jacked, they will find you. And he's like, okay, dad, they rebranded Hoko too.

[Sal Destefano]

I was like, what?

[Adam Schafer]

Why?

[Justin Andrews]

They always gotta rebrand everything. So homecoming they call Hoko.

[Sal Destefano]

Why?

[Justin Andrews]

I have no idea. But that's just what they do.

[Sal Destefano]

Sure.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Shorter, you know, it's. I guess, you know, I had such.

[Sal Destefano]

Good advice for a young man too because like actually working out, the discipline involved, the structure, you're taking your focus off of like all the whatever.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

You know, because you're young, you're only 16. Like, you know, probably better off focusing on that anyway.

[Justin Andrews]

And I think girls don't really realize that till later to kind of chill out with all that stuff. Like. And so I think it's good for, for him to just like be focused, like work on your sport, do good in school, get jacked. Like they'll, they'll find a good one will find you.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Do you not the one that's like trying to do your homework, work out, get a job as a young teenage boy. Like, you're cool.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. Stay focused.

[Justin Andrews]

He's going to be on the, on the, on the path.

[Sal Destefano]

That's so great, dude. I got a funny. I told Adam this morning, I got to tell you, Justin, the funniest thing happened yesterday. So my niece, Jessica's niece now lives with us, Right. She's gonna be going to college down here. 18 year old kid, lover, love her to death. And so she was going to go to school down here. We're like, hey, you can come stay with us. We have an extra room. So she just moved in and her parents brought her down and then left. So yesterday was her full, first full day with us without her parents. Right. So anyway, her family and her niece are totally secular. There's no, no religion no faith, no, nothing whatsoever. Obviously. Our house is very, you know, we're very faith filled home. And so Jessica had this conversation. We're like, look like we, we live the way we do, but let's not press it on her because she's a teenage kid. Like, let's just. We'll love on her like we do. And let's just not try to talk to her about. If she asks questions, that's fine. But I don't want to push her away and I don't want to feel like she's, you know, you know, out of place or something like that. Right. So we had this big conversation. So yesterday was the first day her parents were gone. So we're all sitting around the coffee table and we're making party favors because we're getting ready for my son's. My 4 year old's gonna turn 5 for his birthday, so we're making them. And again, we just literally had this conversation. So she's sitting there making party favors. My son Aurelius walks up to her, he puts his hands on his hips. Her name, her name is Liberty. And he goes, so Liberty, do you know Jesus? I'm like, oh my God, what's happening right now? He starts evangelizing her. And I'm looking at. I'm like, what is happening right now?

[Adam Schafer]

The biblical stories that he knew were.

[Sal Destefano]

Like, I filmed half of it because couldn't believe what he was saying. I couldn't. He's like, did you know Samson? He killed four, like all these philistines with the jawbone of a dog. He's. I'm like, I didn't even know he knew this stuff. But he's like, totally evangelizing.

[Adam Schafer]

I'm like, sponge.

[Sal Destefano]

He's just a.

[Adam Schafer]

He reminds me a lot of my godson and of my buddy. So you have to tell me, is he. Is he just talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, or can he sit in the car and like be silent?

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, he loves to ask questions and talk.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. So he loves non stop talking. Yeah, that's how my gods were.

[Sal Destefano]

You guys up there? You guys weren't at Disneyland with them?

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, we went with them. Yeah. So, okay, so it was so funny the day before. I didn't even know my best friend wasn't coming. I assumed he was. I just assumed his kids were there, his wife's there. I just thought we. We've all been so busy and I thought like, I would see him. Then the night before, Katrina's like, oh, yeah, you know, Justin's not Coming. I'm like, what? What do you mean Justin's not coming? She's like, yeah. And I'm like, what? I text him, he's like, I thought you knew. I'm like, no, I had no idea. So he stayed home and worked his wife and mother in law and their two kids. So. My God.

[Sal Destefano]

So it was you and your family and them.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. And then just me, Katrina and Max and we just, we just, we didn't go with them. We met them and saw them there and we did the whole, the Halloween bash thing that Disneyland does is really cool. We did that. Remember when we were in Disney World last year? All of us, we were in Florida. I went and took Max to that. And he's really into Halloween. I mean, you guys know, he's like the villains and the characters and like he's, he must have been. Yeah, he just loves that. And so I've justified because I, I remember before Max got this age, I told Katrina I didn't want to take him to any of these places until he was old. You don't even remember half the stuff you do before five.

[Sal Destefano]

That's true.

[Adam Schafer]

And so I was like, hey, how about we wait more for you? It is exactly. I'm like, let's, let's wait till he's like 7, 8, 9. Or when he's like really asking to go. And so I lost that argument. So we, we went last year, we went again this year. But I do, I do enjoy seeing him do the Halloween thing because he really gets into it. I mean, we get all dressed up, he was dressed up, we did the whole thing. And that Disneyland does do a really cool Halloween bash. He still is not ready for the ride. So he just. And you know, I'm, again, I'm the, I'm more like, I get all frustrated that we're even toting him around, make him do this, spend all this money to go to Disneyland and we don't do any rides.

[Sal Destefano]

So expensive.

[Adam Schafer]

And Katrina's on the opposite side. She's just like all encouraging. So good. He did like four this time. And he at least got on there. There was no crying. And I'm like, yeah. But he like literally closed his eyes, looked at the ground, wouldn't watch anything that he was doing. Like you could tell the poor kid doesn't want to be on the ride, but he's like mustering it up to go, go through the whole process. But he's just so scared. I did get a little bit. I did feel better on the second morning I'm getting up to go get an energy drink down in the little Disney store below, and I see a boy probably my son's age, maybe even a year older, waiting in line. And the lady's just like, oh, are you excited for the rides today? And the kid was just, like, kind of staring. Just like stone face didn't really respond to her. They walked away, and she kind of chuckled. She goes, oh, the boys. The boys are always the last ones to enjoy the rides like that. I go, oh, really? Is that pretty? She's like, oh, yeah. She's like, very common. The girls always are.

[Caller or Guest]

Are more.

[Adam Schafer]

Seek adventure, know more about it. The boys are always true. I know. I didn't realize because my daughter. Definitely true with my son. It's definitely true with my son.

[Sal Destefano]

Look that up, Doug. See if that's true, because my daughter my.

[Justin Andrews]

With Everett. Yeah, for sure.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, man.

[Justin Andrews]

A long time to. To come around.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Max is just.

[Justin Andrews]

He is.

[Adam Schafer]

I mean, he. Again, we did a couple of them, but he. You could tell, is not.

[Sal Destefano]

That's wild about Everett. I would never imagine, because he's so, like, he'll jump off of something that he shouldn't.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

And he'll do the scariest things.

[Justin Andrews]

But I showed you the. Did I show you the picture of.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. Oh, yeah. He's at school.

[Justin Andrews]

He's playing tackle football. They're not allowed to play tackle football. He just does it anyway. And he was, like, going for a pass, trips, falls right on the curb on his face. Oh, and has this huge raspberry, like, on his face.

[Sal Destefano]

He sent me the picture. Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

But, yeah, so that I think. And then I told you a story when I was, like, pressing him to go on this ride, and he was just like, dad, no, no, no. And I got so mad. And then I just went up on my own. And anyway, I was glad that he didn't go on it because it would have literally, like, traumatized him. So I was like, oh, good. But, yeah, it took him a while to come around. Now he's like, all about it.

[Sal Destefano]

What does it say, Doug?

[Doug]

So it doesn't seem to be any hard evidence that girls are faster than boys. However, I found this interesting. Women tend to enjoy amusement parks more than men in the U.S. oh, yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

That makes sense.

[Adam Schafer]

I didn't know I had, like.

[Sal Destefano]

I wouldn't go with just.

[Adam Schafer]

I had never thought about it. But when I look at. When I look at my. My goddaughter and his son, it was. It's that way to hear that lady who works at Disneyland say, that was like, okay. That's reassuring, that. Knowing that, like, it's not my. Just my son who's Terry.

[Sal Destefano]

So my. My boy won't. He's not. He won't. He won't go on stuff. That's a little scary. Dahlia, she's so young. She's not even three yet. She'll be. For sure. She'll be the one to jump on stuff. For sure.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Did you guys ever do. Because since it's. It's. We're getting close to Halloween. Did you guys ever do, like, legit haunted houses when you were a teenager?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, dude.

[Sal Destefano]

You did.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, yeah. The chainsaws, like, gnarly running after you.

[Adam Schafer]

We. Over here with the bay has a couple of them.

[Justin Andrews]

Gnarly.

[Adam Schafer]

They shut malls down and turn them all.

[Sal Destefano]

And you did them. Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

That stuff is so in person, I guess, doing something like that. Although I wouldn't say, like, I loved them. I did them. I did them.

[Justin Andrews]

You're probably pressured.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, it's more like being in high school and everyone's going. It's like, I'm not that much of a whisper. I'm like, I'm not gonna go, you know?

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

But. Yeah, so I don't. I don't recall loving them, but I also did a few of them, like. And we have. The Bay Area has some pretty cool ones over here.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, you always get mad because there'd be, like, one clown that just wouldn't leave you alone. You're just like, okay, you're trying to pick on me because I'm the guy in the group or whatever. Like, this guy was just like.

[Sal Destefano]

What.

[Adam Schafer]

Are you gonna do?

[Justin Andrews]

You're. You're a prop.

[Sal Destefano]

I did. I did one when I was 15 with my cousin. This is right around with. You think you're, like, kind of like a badass or whatever. And we went with some. I think there were some girls and we were trying to be cool. And so my cousin, like, yeah, we're.

[Justin Andrews]

Not screaming like a girl.

[Sal Destefano]

And you're going around corners, and there's, like, little scenes that are all bloody, and I. And they come chase you and all stuff. And so we were doing well, like nobody was scaring us. But then we go around this corner, and I did not know there was a guy on the ceiling.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, God. Jump down.

[Sal Destefano]

He was dressed up and as Alien. You know the movie Alien? And so when we're walking, it's pitch black. A strobe light comes on, and he comes off the ceiling, and Reaches after you.

[Justin Andrews]

That's legit.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, we squealed for sure. I'll never forget that. It's like burned in my memory.

[Justin Andrews]

It's fun. Yeah, I definitely. Scares the. The hell out of me.

[Adam Schafer]

Did you guys decorate yet?

[Sal Destefano]

Are you.

[Adam Schafer]

Are you.

[Sal Destefano]

We only. We carved a couple pumpkins. I know it's early because we'll carve some more, but that's all we did so far. Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, we're all. We're all decorative, so we did all that.

[Sal Destefano]

I saw.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Your pictures.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. This weekend.

[Sal Destefano]

So.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, he loves all that stuff. Yeah, he's all about. He's about all that. Like, he loves the skeletons and all the things, but he is still, like, he still. He. It has to be something that is, like, still playful and like, I don't know, like something too scary. I don't know if you remember, I bought one. I gave it away to. Who has it in my family. Oh, my other sister in law. She has it. Yeah. I bought one of those crazy huge animated ones.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

And it has like a. Like a dead. It has a head that.

[Sal Destefano]

It's.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay, bro.

[Sal Destefano]

That's way too much.

[Adam Schafer]

It said something like crazy.

[Sal Destefano]

And he Severed head.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, bro. He's like. And I thought. I thought because he's so into Halloween, I'm like, oh, he's gonna love this. And he's like, nah. And he won't. He won't go to. Gee, I wonder why he won't go to the Halloween spirit store. It's too much.

[Sal Destefano]

Well, because that stuff jumps out.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Because it's all over there. So he, like, he won't even walk in the store. So he's as much as he likes all those things, he's still timid about certain ones. It's like, it has to be kind of playful, fun, cartoonish. Like, it's fun.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. Yeah, it's fun.

[Justin Andrews]

See, we. We'd even take that when I was in college, like, to the next level. Like, we would just try really hard to freak everybody out.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

And then we would go drive like long distance because we'd hear of like some story of this, like, abandoned church that was haunted. And like, we would take guys and we would go there and like, who's gonna, like, touch the handle first?

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, come on. Who's gonna.

[Justin Andrews]

You know.

[Sal Destefano]

And then somebody would mess.

[Caller or Guest]

Dude.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

There was a period where it was like. That was a big thing was to scare the.

[Sal Destefano]

I saw there was a video. Maybe you brought it up. Where people were driving their Teslas. Yes. Through cemeteries.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes. That's real.

[Sal Destefano]

And Tesla's show, you know, they'll show you in the digital part of the Tesla where you're looking at the screen.

[Justin Andrews]

It'll show you people walking real time.

[Sal Destefano]

And people are going, oh, you can.

[Adam Schafer]

Watch all kinds of YouTube videos on it.

[Justin Andrews]

That's crazy.

[Adam Schafer]

There's all kinds. We had this conversation with my family a couple weekends ago, and they didn't believe me. And I'm like, oh, look it up. And so they start. They're like, oh, my God, this is real, dude. Oh, look at all these videos. You can see it happening. It is wild. And I've. I've yet to hear a good explanation of why. And it's not like, so what you. What someone thought? They're like, oh, I bet when you pull in, it reads the tombstones as people. I'm like, oh, no, they're.

[Sal Destefano]

They're walking.

[Adam Schafer]

They're walking around the car and moving. And you're in a. In a cemetery, dude. It is literally nobody out there whatsoever. And all of a sudden they start walking all around the car. That is weird.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Probably some Tesla engineers having a good.

[Adam Schafer]

Time so that, that they look that up. It's not. It's not either. They, they. I think we try to disprove it and figure it out. And we, we went down this rabbit hole one night at the dinner with all my family.

[Sal Destefano]

Scary, dude.

[Adam Schafer]

They were tripping out.

[Sal Destefano]

I'm cool.

[Adam Schafer]

You see, I speak of Tesla. You see their getting ready to drop their new phone. See, when they said that I want.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, I want to know the specs.

[Adam Schafer]

So. Okay, if I understand this correctly, it is going to be directly linked to StarLink and the Wi Fi will be part of the service.

[Sal Destefano]

What do you mean?

[Adam Schafer]

So, like, you won't have to pay. You'll be able to go.

[Sal Destefano]

You just buy the phone, you get it.

[Caller or Guest]

Yes.

[Adam Schafer]

And it automatically links.

[Sal Destefano]

So you get WI fi for free.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes. Anywhere in the world.

[Sal Destefano]

Well, that's.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Disrupting fact. Check me, Doug, to make sure is.

[Sal Destefano]

That the Tesla phone.

[Justin Andrews]

Apple's gonna feel this.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, dude, are you kidding? It's gonna really hurt. Especially considering the. The knock on Apple ever since Jobs has been gone is that they really haven't really innovated anything. It's been like the same kind of recycle, recycle. And there's been a lot of critiques of that business already.

[Sal Destefano]

What does it say there, Doug?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, any innovation, they stopped. Like, even the Apple. And like they, they went a couple different directions, but they just cut funding and Focus on the phone and that.

[Adam Schafer]

And that's a big part of Apple's revenue. So you want to talk about shorting a stock right now, dude, all their cash.

[Sal Destefano]

You can go on and buy them now.

[Doug]

I don't know.

[Sal Destefano]

Okay, hold on.

[Doug]

It says Tesla phones. They do have them up. I can't say that you can buy them yet.

[Sal Destefano]

Okay, well, their stock's gonna go through the road.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, that's.

[Sal Destefano]

You get free WI fi.

[Adam Schafer]

Just. What a.

[Justin Andrews]

What a pretty sick.

[Adam Schafer]

What a freaking.

[Sal Destefano]

And Starlink. I've never used it.

[Adam Schafer]

Supposedly. It's amazing.

[Sal Destefano]

Amazing.

[Adam Schafer]

Beyond the ocean, you could be anywhere. That's right. That's. That's what.

[Sal Destefano]

Free WI Fi. Why would you need cell service?

[Doug]

You wouldn't.

[Adam Schafer]

You wouldn't.

[Sal Destefano]

You don't need nothing.

[Doug]

Is this like satellite? So you probably have to be outside though. Satellite doesn't typically work.

[Justin Andrews]

Is that like WhatsApp where you nobody through that or.

[Sal Destefano]

No, because when you're inside, Doug, you use your normal WI fi, you know what I'm saying?

[Doug]

As long as you have it.

[Sal Destefano]

There is no official Tesla phone. Okay, well, I know they've talked about wanting to do it. That's interesting.

[Doug]

Yeah, I don't know.

[Sal Destefano]

All right, I'm gonna. I'm gonna change directions and talk about a. A fatty acid that we work with a partner called Fatty 15. So that sounds funny. It's funny name. I was teasing Justin about that. I'm like, Justin. I named it.

[Justin Andrews]

You guys knew that was gonna fall.

[Sal Destefano]

On me somehow, so I looked up studies. It's called C15 or C17. Let me look it up just to make sure. C15. So this is a fatty acid that's found in dairy. And a lot of us don't get enough of it. And I think that this is the. This is the fat. This fatty acid is going to be like omega 3 fatty acids in terms of supplementing. They show in studies that it reduces inflammation, it is connected to lower risk of heart disease, it's anti inflammatory, it's got insulin sensitizing effects. It seems to inhibit cancer cell growth in certain models. So this is a fatty acid that, that supplementing with. You should see. And the data on this is pretty remarkable. That's why we're working with it.

[Adam Schafer]

What's your thoughts on like why, like if and when do you think we'll start having like doctors recommend it like they do omegas. I think omega tends to be like a staple supplement that most doctors remember.

[Sal Destefano]

This a fish oil and omega 3 fatty acids were recommended by the wellness industry way before it was recommended mainstream. It wasn't until not that long ago that the studies continued to pile up, pile up, pile up. And they said, hey, this is actually beneficial.

[Adam Schafer]

So is that your prediction on this too? Because I didn't hear about this until this company. You're the one that made us privy to this.

[Sal Destefano]

Yep.

[Adam Schafer]

That this is going to become one of those things that will here in the wellness space for probably a few years, maybe even a decade. Who knows how long it'll take before doctors start adopting it, but it's that impactful.

[Sal Destefano]

Yes. And so what's interesting about this is so there's a little bit of it in beef and lamb, but it's mostly in full fat dairy. And a lot of people, we still eat a lot of dairy. People consume a lot of, not a lot of people consume a lot of full fat dairy. And so we're missing out on some of these benefits of this particular fatty acid. So I think this is especially beneficial.

[Adam Schafer]

Out of our diets.

[Sal Destefano]

That's right.

[Adam Schafer]

Another case for raw milk, huh?

[Sal Destefano]

Well, I mean, if you look at the raw milk is great, but if you look at like, if you like someone like me, like I don't have dairy in my diet because it doesn't do well with me, but I can have dairy fat, I can't have dairy proteins. So this is a fatty acid that I supplement with for some of these benefits. And I think it will be along the lines of what we see with fish oil moving forward. So you're not what you eat, you are what you digest. Look, digestive enzymes can help you break down proteins, fats and carbohydrates to maximize what you eat. Get those nutrients to the areas you want, like muscle and recovery help with digestion. Go check out the best company that offers these MassZymes. Go to MassZymes.com that's M A S S Z Y M E S. Use the code mindpump10 get 10% off any order. Here comes the show.

[Doug]

Our first caller is Kevin from South Carolina.

[Sal Destefano]

Hey, Kevin.

[Adam Schafer]

How you doing, Kevin?

[Kevin]

Hey, guys, how's it going?

[Sal Destefano]

Good. How can we help you?

[Kevin]

So I'm Kevin. I'm 41 years old, husband, father of three. I have to give you guys the obligatory flowers that people always do. Found you guys maybe a year, year and a half ago. She's looking for a podcast to listen to, to prove myself, you know, physically, mentally. Clicked on the first one. It ended up being something about muscle mommies build your butt. I didn't really, I was Pot committed. I listened to it anyway. I didn't get a ton out of it, but you guys dove into some parenthood topics and fatherhood topics and you know, kind of what it was to be the example for your sons and to be the measuring stick for your daughters when they start dating. And that really resonated with me. So I, I'm glad I stuck around and list. Since taking your advice, I've definitely improved my diet, prioritize protein and whole foods. And I've lost some weight, put on some muscle. Virtually every aspect of my life has gotten easier, better. Getting out of bed in the morning, you know, sitting up, sitting up from a chair and picking things up, putting things down, just, you name it. Life in general has just become easier since I've been listening to you guys and taking your advice. So cheers to you very, very much. Appreciate the advice.

[Sal Destefano]

Thank you.

[Adam Schafer]

Appreciate that, Kevin.

[Justin Andrews]

Great.

[Adam Schafer]

Thank you, man.

[Kevin]

So to my question, I. I work a pretty time, demanding job. I'm punching in usually around 6:30 in the morning and I leave at 4:30 in the afternoon. Got a little bit of a commute home. By the time I get home and get myself together, get, you know, dinner, get the kids homework, get everybody situated and have a little family time, there's not a lot left, you know, in terms of time of day and just in general energy in the tank to do too much. So I'm resigned to work out in the mornings. I get up usually 3:30 or 4:00', clock, go to the gym by work, you know, give it 45 minutes or an hour and head straight to work from there. I've been doing maps 15 for a while. It seems like that's probably what, what have made the most sense. I've had some pretty good success with it. I don't, I don't have any complaints really about the program. My issue is that by the time I get to the end of the week, you know, Thursday, Friday and even sometimes Wednesday, as silly as it sounds, even with the short workouts, I, I can't really attack them with the same, you know, vigor that I do on the Monday and Tuesday workouts. And I don't know that I get as much out of them as I should be. And my question is, is there a way to maybe hybridize some programs to where I could do like a longer full body workout on a Saturday? Just kind of have a little more time, a little more energy, just, you know, really send it on a Saturday and then do, you know, two or three shorter workouts during the week to get the other lifts in and what something like that would look like, you know, would be best to stack up the maps 15 days and do four or five of those on a Saturday and just kind of take my time. Or, or would it be better to, you know, maybe look into a different program and break the full days up into shorter days or you know, some kind of mashup of the two. I just was looking for some guidance from you guys.

[Sal Destefano]

Good question, Kevin. And there's. That's one way to do it. I think a better way to do it, you know, when we write the programs, we write them with the typical calendar, you know, seven day. We, you know, seven days in a week, four weeks in a month. But you don't have to follow it that way. So I think there's a better option for you, Kevin. I think what you do, what you should do is when you feel good, you do that maps 15 workout and when you miss a couple days, you miss and then you get right back on to the next workout. So it doesn't have to be like that, you know, where it's, you know, six days in that week, you're following the math, 15 workout, then you have your day off or whatever. It can literally be like workout, workout, day off, day off, another workout, day off, work out. So whenever you feel good, you just pick up right where you left off and it's totally fine. In fact, I think that would be more appropriate for a guy like you when you're finding yourself. I mean, waking up at 3:30 and four is brutal. You got kids, you got to put them to bed. You probably want to spend some time with your wife. So it's not like you're going to bed at 8pm because it's probably when the kids go down, you want to stay up and hang out with your wife a little bit. So. And I don't, I mean you can do two or three workouts on a Saturday, but you also might want to do something with your family on a Saturday or maybe get more rest. So I think the best option is just do what I said. Like the mornings you wake up, you feel good, do a workout and then take a couple days off and jump.

[Adam Schafer]

I like, I like what he suggested to one of the suggestions that he did. I don't know if you picked up on it because, because he feels so good on Monday, Tuesday, why not run Monday Tuesday Mass 15, just a 15 minute version and then Saturday and Sunday combined. Yeah, so you could do that. So for the workouts, get accomplished which is still only a. It's going to be a 50 minute workout or less.

[Sal Destefano]

Sure.

[Adam Schafer]

So Saturday and Sunday, you, you take two of the days and combine them on Saturday and Sunday and then you only lift during the week, Monday, Tuesday, and you just do the 15 minutes before work based off of what you told me, like, you have good energy on the beginning of the week. So I would, I would do it Monday, Tuesday, and then on Saturday and Sunday do the combined to those. That way you're not bouncing in, in a different programs. You're still following the structure the way it is. I like that option too. And maybe try them both and see which one feels better for you.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. The reason why I said what I said is because I know, I'm sure weekends for you sometimes are going to be, you know, family stuff. Yeah. So, you know, structure is good, but if you're consistent and you're, you're, you're good with your consistency around not being super structured, then I think that's the better option. In other words, some people need that like Monday, Tuesday, Saturday, Sunday, I work out. Other people are like, no, I'm pretty good about working out when I feel good and okay with, you know, taking a couple days off. You know, some people turn that into like a week off when then they're like, oh, I need more structure. But I think if you get up, you feel good, do your workout and taking a couple days off is totally fine and then pick up right where you left off and you know, you could have a weekend where you add more, you know, more of the workouts together. It's all the programming works either way with the way that Mass 15 is laid out.

[Kevin]

Okay, cool. So it's more flexible maybe than what I was thinking?

[Sal Destefano]

Totally. Absolutely.

[Adam Schafer]

Yep.

[Kevin]

Okay, deal. Okay, so send it a little more on Saturdays and Sundays and then try Monday, Tuesday and relax a little bit more during the week.

[Sal Destefano]

That's right. That's right. And then you have 15 performance.

[Kevin]

Yeah, I got the bundle where it has performance and the regular, so.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, you're set, dude. You're totally set.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Kevin]

Okay, well, good deal. That's, that's all I needed. Like I said, I appreciate you guys. Definitely very like noticeable life changes, you know, listening to you guys. So really, really appreciate that and appreciate the guidance here too.

[Adam Schafer]

Keep it up, Kevin.

[Sal Destefano]

You got it, man.

[Adam Schafer]

Yep.

[Kevin]

Thanks guys.

[Sal Destefano]

Thank you.

[Adam Schafer]

Take it easy.

[Sal Destefano]

You know, I don't want to underestimate, so I used to underestimate this as a trainer because why, Because I was a kid, didn't have kids in a family. Like a lot of people have this kind of schedule where it's like, it is hard.

[Justin Andrews]

A lot of people don't consider it.

[Sal Destefano]

No, man, it is hard. It's a lot of stress. Your sleep isn't great. You got bills, you work, you got to wake up at three or four or five just to get. And so you want to make it work around that. If, if your workout starts decreasing your quality of life because you're now you're too exhausted to be with your kids or.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. You want it to compliment you.

[Sal Destefano]

That's right. That's right.

[Angelica]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

I mean, I like kind of what he, what he was going to do though. I like the idea of the first two days of the week. Week because then also he's only doing 15 minutes so he should be able to sleep in a little bit more than 3:30.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

So you get a little bit more sleep. Just get the 15 minutes in on those two days and then the rest of the week focus on work. Your point is valid though. I mean that's probably when he also does things with the family and go, they might travel, they might do that stuff. But then if I know that's coming up, then maybe that's how I change it for that week. I might get my workouts. In the neat part about like what you got, I think that most people need to be able to look. We always, we do. We always look at everything in this like seven day snapshot as if that's how our body works.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Like it's on some seven day cycle or whatever. It's like, no, you know, sometimes you get two days in a row working out and then all of a sudden you miss a day. Or sometimes you get three days in a row and then you miss two days and it's like, it's okay. You just follow the way the program's laid out. Even if it turns into a nine day week or.

[Sal Destefano]

That's right.

[Adam Schafer]

It doesn't matter. Just keep following it in that order. And if, if you're more consistent than you're not, you're, you're going to be winning for the most part.

[Doug]

Our next caller is Alicia from Colorado.

[Sal Destefano]

Hi, Alicia.

[Adam Schafer]

Hello.

[I]

Hi guys.

[Adam Schafer]

How you doing?

[I]

Good, man. I just want to say thank you guys and I appreciate everything that you guys do and I love you guys.

[Sal Destefano]

Thank you. Thank you. How can we help you?

[I]

So, a little backstory. I started my journey back in 2024. I lost probably about 26 pounds with just eating healthy. This January is when I Kind of started incorporating weightlifting five times a week. I hired a coach. She started me doing, like, a reverse diet because I was eating only at the time, 1200 calories. So we did that. I reached maintenance probably in May, and then in June, we started cutting. So I guess my question is.

[Angelica]

I've.

[I]

Been struggling because I feel like I'm not making progress, and I know I am, even though the scale is not moving. So this whole time, the scale has stayed at 155, but my body has dramatically changed from what it used to be. So I know I'm making progress. Now that I'm cutting, I don't know if I need to go back to maintenance to continue building more muscle and to get more of the sculpting that I truly want.

[Sal Destefano]

Good question. Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

A couple questions further, though. What did you get up to when you say you got up to maintenance before your cut? So what were your calories at? And then where are you currently at right now when you cut?

[I]

So when I got to maintenance, there were 2,000.

[Sal Destefano]

Okay.

[I]

Now that I'm cutting, I'm at 5,000, 552.

[Sal Destefano]

Okay.

[Adam Schafer]

1552. Right?

[I]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay.

[Sal Destefano]

By the way, I see your before and after.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, you're definitely making great job. Making great progress.

[Sal Destefano]

You're doing great.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. So. So let's talk about your workout first. So you started weightlifting or strength training five days a week.

[I]

Five days a week at 4 in the morning? Me and my husband.

[Sal Destefano]

Okay. Why five days a week? That's a lot.

[I]

Because at the time, I struggled two years to get my eating under control. So I was the type of person before I didn't want to work out. I refused to work out. I thought doing fab diets was the thing. It's not. So when I started in January, I knew I needed to go straight in. I needed to just do it. So I wanted to build the consistency. And, yeah, now I love it.

[Sal Destefano]

Who is. Who's. Is your husband putting the workout together? Are you following his lead with it, or are you guys both kind of doing it?

[I]

So I started first. We hired or I hired a trainer. So they got us going until about June. And then in June, I decided to let go of my trainer. And then now we're just doing it ourselves.

[Sal Destefano]

Okay. And are you guys enjoying doing it together?

[I]

Uh, we do, but we. I mean, we go to the gym together, but we do. We're not working side by side. He has his program and I have mine because we both have different goals.

[Sal Destefano]

All right. I don't want to dissuade you. So that's more than you need. But if you're enjoying it and you're going and you're modifying intensity and getting stronger.

[Adam Schafer]

I mean, I love her going. I. I love for going five. Just let me convince you to do it this way. Go the five. Follow maps, anabolic three days a week, walk for an hour on the treadmill the other two days, and keep going to the gym five days a week. Because I totally respect and get that I'm like that where I do better with just every morning at this time, I get up and I go, here. It doesn't matter like. But you'd be far better off following a full body program like map Santabolic. Monday, Wednesday, Friday and Tuesday, Thursdays, you just walk on the treadmill for the hour. So you still go to the gym same time, same everything. But the hour that you're spending in the gym for those two days is walking on a treadmill just a normal walk. Just a normal nice walk or elliptical or body. You can do other things, nothing crazy. Yep, that's that.

[Sal Destefano]

And that'd be a more effective strength training routine.

[Adam Schafer]

And then I also want to bump your calories up, a couple hundred calories. So I want to take you back from your 15 so or so to probably 17 or 1800 calories to start. And then following maps, anabolic, and the walking, like tongue, and start to reverse diet you again. And then you're gonna start to build muscle again.

[I]

I agree. I mean, because I do. Like, I felt a lot better at maintenance. The only reason why we decided putting was because I felt bulkier and heavy. But I did notice, like, my glutes were getting bigger, My thighs have got bigger, which is good, but I just didn't like feeling heavy.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

I mean, we can see your. We saw your before and afters, and for you to kind of maintain the same weight. You says that you were probably in that swee spot where you were losing body fat but building muscle, losing by. And that's like a.

[Sal Destefano]

It's a.

[Adam Schafer]

Psychologically, it's a hard place to be. I'm sure you've heard us talk about all the time. It's a hard place when you're in the. What we call the goldilocks zone, because you don't see the swings on the scale like people want. But technically, you were in a really good place. And so I think getting you back up to that 1800-2000 calories and then following a program that we give you, I think you're Gonna see incredible results.

[I]

Okay, so do you think I kinda hindered myself dropping dramatically?

[Adam Schafer]

No, No, I don'ti don't think you hurt yourself or hindered anything. I think youyou're fine. I don't think you did anything detrimental or overdid it for too long. And so we're okay. It was maybe a good break on eating that many calories and that now you'll wanna eat more again. I think it's okay. It's totally fine. It's not a bad thing. Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Have you seen our muscle mommy group, by the way? Because that might be a great kind of love. It's. It's group coaching. So you'll get some guidance because I know you worked with a coach before and it'll give you some guidance. You're kind of not by yourself.

[Adam Schafer]

You meet with our trainers, bounce ideas once a week. Our, our girls get in there and meet. Our female trainers are meeting with all these ladies and helping them through.

[I]

Oh, yeah, I would love that.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

All right, we'll send you a link to that.

[Adam Schafer]

Yep. And then. And then follow that advice.

[Sal Destefano]

Do you have maps? Anabolic? Can we send that to you?

[I]

Yeah, I don't have it. I don't have any of your guys programs.

[Sal Destefano]

We'll send it to you.

[Adam Schafer]

We're gonna change that. We're gonna change that. We got you.

[I]

Okay, thanks.

[Adam Schafer]

Yep. So we're gonna send that over to you. And then when you get in the community, any questions that you have about the program, just pop them in there and then the trainers will help you out.

[I]

Okay, Excellent.

[Adam Schafer]

Awesome.

[I]

All right, thanks, guys.

[Sal Destefano]

You got it. I love that she sent her before and after.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Oh, huge difference.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, yeah, huge.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

It's a progress.

[Adam Schafer]

So hard, though, psychologically, of course, to stay the same weight, you know?

[Sal Destefano]

Of course. But it sets you up. It sets you up for long term success the other way where you're just fighting with the scale.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Not only is it a nightmare, but it sets you up for failure. 90 over 90 of time.

[Adam Schafer]

Really good sign, though, that she, she saw it and felt it.

[Sal Destefano]

That's right.

[Adam Schafer]

So there's totally nothing wrong. And in fact, sometimes I would do this with clients to kind of show them, like, oh, here we go, we can cut some calories and maybe the scale goes down a couple pounds real quick. But did you feel better? Did you look better? Like, man. And she knows it. She felt better. She felt more fed. She felt like her muscle was fuller. Like definitely get back up to those calories. And then I think when she follows Maps Anabolic. Yeah, I think she's trigger sessions. Huge, huge difference. So look forward to seeing her in the community too.

[Doug]

Her next caller is Angelica from New York.

[Sal Destefano]

Hi Angelica.

[I]

Hi.

[Sal Destefano]

How can we.

[Angelica]

So I reached out because I am a little confused, so I'm just gonna read it. It says first of all, thank you for sharing your knowledge with all of us listeners. It's been incredibly helpful and motivating. I'm reaching out. I'm in a bit of a tough spot and could use some guidance. I'm 42, mom of two, white Dobie mom, and I've been a brother since 2021. It helped me overcome postpartum depression after having my daughter. Earlier this year I fractured my foot which shifted my focus into strength training. Since then I've discovered bodybuilding and now want to work towards getting stage ready. My husband currently has Maps, antibiotics, an athletic program, and I recently purchased the Split since it geared more towards bodybuilding. I haven't started yet because I'm unsure which program is best fit for me. I'm currently training five days a week, three lower and two upper body. I'm very disciplined with both lifting and running. Once I'm cleared to get back into running, I should also mention I'm very compartmentalized person. I like upper body days and lower body days. Doing full body makes me anxious which is probably why I haven't started the other programs. I normally like to put together what I can dumbbells, barbells, etc. Nutrition is where I feel most lost. I've cut a lot from my diet due to my health issues in the past year. I know I need more structure. Eggs makes me nauseous, beef doesn't sit well with me, I've limited oil eating out and gluten. I'm not sure how much I should be eating or how to build a plan that supports both muscle growth and stage gravity. I'm currently 121 pounds. I'm down from 175 pounds and while I've seen progress in strength and muscle growth since May, I don't know how to take control of this next phase. I love some advice on which program to begin with, how to approach nutrition, specifically how much I should be eating to fuel my training, which division, bikini figure or etc might be the best starting point for me. I do work in healthcare so most of my days is best bound after training and my evenings are filled with cooking and family routines and my day goes by very quickly. I'm grateful for any guidance that you guys can share with me.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, man. Okay.

[Adam Schafer]

You're not gonna like what I'm gonna tell you. I don't think you should do. I don't think you should compete meat. Just my opinion.

[Sal Destefano]

Okay.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, I, I think, I think one for sure. Figuring out the food intolerances, gut stuff, anything you have going on, I think is far more important to figure that out. The getting ready for a show. So one of the biggest mistakes that people make is deciding I want to get ready for a show. And they look at their calendar and they're like, okay, it looks like January of next year is a good time for my schedule. And then they book the, the, the show and then they begin to diet for that show. The real work is done before you get ready for the prep for a show. Meaning making sure you're all healthy gut wise, ramping your metabolism up, building a solid muscular physique. Because really the diet to get on stage is literally just revealing all that work. The physique is built in the off season, the metabolism is built in the off season. So making sure that gut health is on point. We are eating a good amount of calories, meaning someone your size, I'd want you north of 2,700 calories or more. And then we talk about, okay, now that we're there, you feel healthy, you feel strong. Our metabolism is ramped up. We're eating 2700 plus calories. Now let's talk about where your body fat percentage is and when a show should be based off of that much better strategy. If you want to do a show, that's how I'd get you ready for it.

[Sal Destefano]

Any health issues that you have will get exacerbated by pre contest prep. It'll, they'll just make them a lot worse. So what it would look like if I were to give you some numbers, someone like you, your height, your size, you'd want to be able to maintain 20% body fat, 18% body fat at like 3,000 calories. So you're eating 3,000 calories a day and you're 18% body fat and you feel good, you feel healthy. Then you might be in a position to go on a, you know, 14 weeks pre contest diet. And you probably start with bikini because figure and all that is even more advanced. But that would be the starting place and that would also. That still is a difficult road. Okay, now if you're not at that starting place, if you're like 2200 calories, you're maintaining 23 body fat. Like where are you gonna end up before going on a show. You know, 800 calories, you'll crash your hormones, destroy your metabolism and place yourself in a position where you're like, man, I regret even trying because I just, I just feel terrible now. It's going to take me six months to get healthy again. Or what happens to a lot of women is they regain and then, and then some gain body weight. So it's not the best, you know, it's not the best target or goal to aim for. But if it's what you want to do, then we'd want to end up where I said, about 3,000 calories. 18% body fat is what you're able to maintain at that many calories. And then we have some room, we have some Runway with the diet.

[Adam Schafer]

Any idea where we are calorie wise and body fat percentage wise right now?

[Angelica]

Don't yell.

[Adam Schafer]

Wait, what'd you say?

[Sal Destefano]

I said don't yell.

[Angelica]

I've been tracking it, but don't yell.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay, I won't yell, I promise.

[Angelica]

What I've been tracking for the past, I would say month and a half is I am ending up at 13, 1600.

[Adam Schafer]

1300. Okay. I'm not yelling. I'm just, I'm talking.

[Caller or Guest]

I know.

[Adam Schafer]

I'm talking faster. 1300 calories is where you're at right now.

[Angelica]

Yeah.

[Dr. India Woods]

Because.

[Angelica]

Okay.

[Adam Schafer]

If you try, if you try and do a show right now, I will call your husband. Okay. When we hang up and make sure he doesn't allow you to do that. Absolutely.

[Angelica]

Well, no.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay.

[Angelica]

No, no. So I don't want it to be like I, I either want, I want this to be like a two year.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay, go. Okay, good goal, good goal. Yeah, I like reasonable.

[Angelica]

Right. So backstory is that I, I haven't had the best relationships with you because growing up, I, I was big. And then my mom always informed me of that. And even after having my daughter, she's two months after, she was like, guess what, you're still fat. So I'm like, yeah, I just had a whole human. So I've been trying to, like, erase the voice and, you know, hang on to God's word. Like, it's been, it's been a difficult journey. So I. Getting into this bodybuilding, I know that I'm not gonna be stage ready this year or even next year.

[Sal Destefano]

Angelica.

[Angelica]

Because I have to build that relationship with you.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. Angelica, the last thing you should do is get on stage and get judged by the way you look.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Especially coming from there.

[Sal Destefano]

If you have that challenge that you're Just gonna, it's like, it's okay. You have a recovering alcoholic, let's say, who's been sober for four months and they wanna get a job as a bartender. Terrible idea.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

You're placing yourself right in the, in the clutches of the enemy. And so what you're going to do is you're doing that with that kind of competition if you want to compete. Look, if you have a competitive mindset and you like it, you're like, I want to do something. I have a better option for you. Let me send you Maps Power Lift. Follow Maps Power Lift. Bump your calories up to 1600 calories to start with. Slowly work your way above 2000 calories on maps Power Lift. And just try to get strong. Don't weigh yourself. Don't focus on the mirror when you get dressed. Just get dressed. Don't study your body. Just get strong at Mass Power Lift. By the way, the side effect of it is going to be you're going to get leaner. You will get leaner doing that. But don't focus on how you look. Focus on getting stronger in Maps Power Lift and reverse diet.

[Adam Schafer]

And Jelka, have you looked at the musclemommymove it.com that we started?

[Angelica]

I did. I did take the test. I think I was.

[Adam Schafer]

It's not, it's not important.

[Sal Destefano]

It doesn't matter.

[Adam Schafer]

It doesn't matter. The main thing is that.

[Sal Destefano]

Did you have a, we have a group there.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Did you get in the, in the group, in the private group with us?

[Angelica]

No.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay, you got to get in there.

[Sal Destefano]

This will help.

[Adam Schafer]

We have doctors that are hormone specialists that are coming on, talking about female hormones. It's all women trying to build muscle. They're all following different programs. A lot of them have passed food, relationship issues that are being discussed. I mean, this is the conversations that we are having as a community with, with all women. And our two female trainers are running it. They're meeting weekly with everybody. We're having doctors come in there. Just an incredibly valuable group for you to be a part of, considering what you're talking about right now. And I love the idea of setting this as a long term goal. I'm totally okay with that. But we definitely got to get through all the other stuff. Get yourself in a health, healthy place before we even consider show prepping. So right now, let's, let's get that all under control and if you will allow us, allow us to help you through that process.

[Angelica]

Yeah, that sounds awesome. My husband actually is the one that has been pushing me into like lifting heavy. And then I had a PR past weekend with Zedvis of 215.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, that's awesome. That's awesome.

[Sal Destefano]

Angelica, you're strong. You're gonna like mass power lift lift.

[Angelica]

Yeah. So I like lifting heavy. I didn't know well. So I'm like, being a runner is like, my best workouts are doing the speed and the hill workouts because I just like that challenge. I like to feel like I'm at the brink of, like, I can't do it and then push past that. And with lifting, he. He always lies to me and adds more weight. And here I thought I was like, oh, I'm gonna do 195. And when I pulled it and he was like, yeah, that was 215.

[Adam Schafer]

That's awesome. All right. That's awesome.

[Sal Destefano]

Follow Mass Power lift Reverse diet. You'll be so much happier.

[Adam Schafer]

We're gonna send you power lift. I'll have Doug also send the link to you to get back muscle mommymovement.com.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, I'll send that link to you.

[Adam Schafer]

And then get inside the group and then you'll. And then we'll help you from that process from then on out. And then we'll talk later about show stuff. Okay?

[Angelica]

Okay.

[Adam Schafer]

All right, Angela.

[Sal Destefano]

All right.

[Caller or Guest]

All right.

[Angelica]

I look forward.

[Adam Schafer]

Look forward to seeing you in there.

[Angelica]

Yes.

[Sal Destefano]

All right. The. The last thing you should do.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

If you have any body dysmorphia or food relationship issues is a stage presentation sport. Yeah. It's the last. It will throw you right into dysfunction.

[Adam Schafer]

I even. I even think your analogy isn't even.

[Sal Destefano]

Is.

[Adam Schafer]

Is still better. So the. The bartender who, you know, the. The guy who gets recovered alcoholic. Right. And recovers for four months and goes to be a bartender, I think is an easier process than the person who has a poor relationship with food being forced to measure, track, and do food stuff and then be judged on their body. It would be more like you're drinking. Like, you're right.

[Justin Andrews]

It would be more like a small amount.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes.

[Justin Andrews]

More like take a shot.

[Sal Destefano]

Yes. It's more like a sober, like. Like a recovering alcoholic, you know, becoming a wine tester or.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Like, it is crazy to think about.

[Adam Schafer]

It is. It's even more difficult and worse than that. So. And I know the point of the analogy, like, but let me make it crazier. It's worse than that of what you're doing to a person who has struck with any sort of body dysmorphia or food relationship issue.

[Sal Destefano]

It's A body dysmorphia sport.

[Adam Schafer]

Exactly. It's so and so go. Doing that at the competitive level is the. The last and worst thing you could do. And then again, I just want to reiterate what I said to her that I try and because I have this conversation so much with people that want to compete. The work for getting on stage is not done in the prep. It's done off season. It's done getting your metabolism ready, getting your relationship with food ready, getting your. Your foundation of your muscle ready. When you go and you cut for a show, all you're doing is trimming off the body fat and revealing all the hard work you've done, revealing the incredible strong metabolism that you built so that you're able to still eat amount of calories, revealing all the muscle you built over years of strength training. Consistently, like that's all the the prep is, is that you're not doing anything other than that. And so focusing on the off season, building a healthy metallic metabolism, building a strong physique, building a good relationship with food and diet, that's so more important than the actual prep for the thing.

[Doug]

Our next caller is Aaron from Texas.

[Sal Destefano]

Hey, Aaron.

[Adam Schafer]

What's going on? Aaron?

[Caller or Guest]

Hey, how are you guys?

[Sal Destefano]

Good, man, good man. How can we help you?

[Caller or Guest]

All right, let me get straight into my question. So I'm 36 years old. I'm a husband and a father to two girls. Now, about seven years or seven months ago, I decided I need to start making a change. So I started out weighing about 218 pounds, and I decided to cut out sodas, most fast, most processed foods, and a lot, all the fast food and as well as a good decent amount of alcohol. Once I did that, I started tracking my calories, weighing all my food. That way I could get a better idea of what I was eating and consuming. In the first two months, I ended up losing £20 and I decided I need to incorporate strength training. So I ended up buying dumbbells and a bench and started lifting weights at the house. I do three times a week, full body. I only eat basically whole foods, limited processed foods, and I'm currently now at £168. I did measurements for my body fat. I'm roughly around 11 body fat somewhere in there. And I know now that I need to try to lean bulk and gain some muscle mass. But the problem is I'm eating a lot of food, a lot of whole foods, and I'm getting full fairly quick. So I'm just, I guess, wondering. I guess my question is what's the best way to try and put on more mass if I'm getting full constantly? Because I am, like, at the end of the night, I'm eating Greek yogurts and protein shakes, trying to get extra protein in, which that's always my number one priority, is extra protein. I just. The whole foods is where I want to stay at. I'm happy not eating any more fast food or anything like that. Just I. Trying to figure out how to build that lean mass now. I guess.

[Sal Destefano]

You're killing it, dude. Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

You're doing great, bro. You are. You're doing really good. And building muscle is a slow process. And you look great. You look good. I see your picture there. Yeah, yeah. Building muscle is a slow process. If you're eating whole foods, you're hitting your protein targets. You're eating till you're satisfied. In fact, you're telling us right now, like, I don't know if I could eat anymore. I don't think you need to focus on stuff in your face at this point. It's programming, okay? The focus is workout programming that'll stimulate your appetite. So focus on getting stronger. Are you limited by equipment? Is it just dumbbells and an adjustable bench?

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah, so that. That is. I feel like that might be part of it, but my job, I'm at work 14 hours out of the day. So when I get home in the evenings, I try to squeeze in about an hour to an hour and a half workout. And I have dumbbells only and a bench. And the dumbbells even are kind of limited. I try to put. To buy dumbbells when I need them or like when I need to move up in weight.

[Sal Destefano]

You're at the point where you need more weight.

[Adam Schafer]

I mean, here's the deal. You are incredibly healthy, incredibly fit. You got good muscle, you got a good diet. You don't need to really change anything. But if you want more, you're kind of at that level where the investment. And maybe like a PRX squat rack, some extra weights like this will. Let's. Gym membership or gym membership, whatever's easier.

[Sal Destefano]

That'll take you to the next level.

[Adam Schafer]

That. That will take you the. And it will. It will fuel the appetite issue. Like Sal saying, if we put you on Maps Anabolic right now, just following that, your. Your appetite will kick up. And if you keep following these rules of eat protein and eat whole foods, it'll come right with it, bro. You'll. You'll. You'll go right up with it. You really will, because you're in a really good place and. But you're also at a place where you could, you could keep doing what.

[Sal Destefano]

You do this and you'll keep progressing slowly.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. You're healthy, you're strong, you're fit. But, but the next level of, like, putting on more mass at a little bit faster rate is it's time to invest in either a more robust home gym or get a gym membership where you can, you can really start to detect some of those.

[Sal Destefano]

Start getting those, those barbell lifts. Yeah. Squats, those deadlifts, those bench presses. You'll gain Maps Anabolic. Following what you're doing with your diet now, you'll probably put on a good six, seven pounds of lean body mass. On maps Anabolic.

[Justin Andrews]

Yep.

[Caller or Guest]

Okay.

[Sal Destefano]

There.

[Caller or Guest]

Well, yeah, I guess that's what I was looking for. Just maybe a little bit of validation that I am on the right track. And I think part of it is probably just getting slightly impatient, but I've been just trying to stick to the plan and.

[Adam Schafer]

Dude, you've done great, bro.

[Sal Destefano]

You went from 218 to 11 body fat with abs.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

And you look muscular.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah, I've never been able to see my abs before, so saying that at 36 years old is pretty crazy.

[Sal Destefano]

Dude, you're killing it. You're doing great, bro.

[Adam Schafer]

So you're doing a great job.

[Sal Destefano]

But yeah, you start you throwing some barbell water, work in there, Follow like Maps Anabolic. You'll probably, you know, I. I'm pretty confident saying someone like you probably put on about seven pounds of lean body mass.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, at least that, actually. I think because he's. He's kind of a novice, so I think that he's gonna. He'll pack on.

[Sal Destefano]

You'll see how strong you get.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah. Aaron, I'd love to put you. I don't know if you're on Facebook at all, but if you are, I'd love to put you in our private forum. So we just keep. Yeah, yeah. I'll have Doug set you up, put you in there for free, and then just stay in touch with us as you go through this process. I'd love to hear if you end up getting a. A gym membership or, or if you end up working at home. I'll have Doug send you map Santa Bolog with that too. And then you follow that. I think the rest will. Will follow. Keep doing what you're doing. I think the, the rules that you've set for yourself, the way you're eating, all the things. Just perfect.

[Caller or Guest]

Awesome, man. I. I really appreciate you guys, I listen to you guys all the time. And I will say, I think listening to what you guys have to say is also made a huge impact and difference on how I've approached things. So I really appreciate y'. All.

[Sal Destefano]

That's great, man. Love to hear that.

[Adam Schafer]

Aaron.

[Sal Destefano]

Thank you.

[Caller or Guest]

Thank you.

[Sal Destefano]

It's doing great.

[Adam Schafer]

Hey, it's great.

[Sal Destefano]

You know, this is, by the way, Russian. I want people to hear this. Where he got. If you, if you're watching this and you see his picture, which most men would want to look like that. Yeah, yeah, you. He got there with just dumbbells and some bands eating whole natural foods. You know, eating till he was full, not overdoing it, like that's where you can.

[Justin Andrews]

That should encourage a lot of people.

[Sal Destefano]

And most people are happy with that.

[Adam Schafer]

Now.

[Sal Destefano]

Next level, he's limited by his equipment, which is a great problem by the way. You start getting limited that. Yeah, you get limited by your equipment.

[Adam Schafer]

He could literally just keep doing what he's doing though. He'll still progress and he will, he will continue to look good and man, I Love it too. Maintain 11 body fat and he's not weighing and measuring and tracking food. You're not crushing the gym. Our gym workouts, you know, with all kinds, like, it's literally that simple. If you follow those steps and focus on those things and he don't even need to change. But if he wants more, this is where the maps, Anabolics, deadlifting, squatting, overhead pressing. This is where this starts to really make a difference.

[Sal Destefano]

Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. We'll see you at Mind Pump Media.

[Doug]

Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Super Bundle at Mind Pump Media. The RGB Super Bundle includes Maps, Anabolic Maps, Performance and Maps aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, the RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee and you can get it now. Plus other valuable free [e-mail] if you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review on itunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is Mind Pump.