2708: The Right Cardio for You

Summary

Mind Pump Episode 2708 Summary: "The Right Cardio for You"

Podcast date: October 17, 2025
Hosts: Sal Di Stefano, Adam Schafer, Justin Andrews, Doug Egge

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Episode Overview

In this episode, the Mind Pump crew takes a deep dive into the world of cardio: the role it plays in achieving different fitness goals, how form and modality matter, and common cardio myths—especially around fat loss. The hosts break down how to select the right kind of cardio based on whether you’re seeking endurance, athleticism, fat loss, muscle gain, or longevity. Their candid, experience-driven discussion is full of practical wisdom, backed by decades of coaching and personal experimentation.

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Key Discussion Points

1. Why People Think Mind Pump is “Anti-Cardio”

• The perception that Mind Pump is anti-cardio comes from their audience often being focused on fat loss, for which cardio is a poor primary tool. Cardio is not bad—in fact, it's great for health and endurance, but context and goals matter.
  • Quote [04:22, Adam]:
    "90 percent of the people that ask for our help... are looking for fat loss. And cardio is a terrible tool for fat loss… It is not a great, especially in the context of, Adam, I want to lose body fat."

2. Cardio for Endurance: Form Matters

• Steady-state cardio (like elliptical or treadmill at moderate intensity) shines for boosting general endurance.
• However, technical forms like running involve significant skill and risk for repeated poor form and chronic overuse injuries.
  • Quote [07:59, Adam]:
    “Most people don’t realize how much they suck at running.”
  • The importance of learning correct biomechanics before using running as a form of exercise is emphasized (coaching for 6 months to a year recommended!).

3. Practical Cardio Equipment Choices

• Elliptical and stationary bike are typically safer and more accessible, lower technical skill, and less injury risk than running.
• If opting for running, practice on hills or turf and focus on mechanics.
• Justin: prefers hills/turf to pavement.
• Adam: elliptical or incline treadmill walk for low-impact.
  • Quote [23:40, Adam]:
    "The reason why I like elliptical so much is just because of the zero impact ... entry level for anybody."

4. Cardio for Athleticism

• Nothing beats sport-specific practice for stamina in a particular sport.

  • Sal [13:13]:
    "Nothing will build stamina for athleticism like practicing the sport you want increased stamina for... If you want to get better at soccer, if you want more endurance for jiu jitsu... practice more of that sport."

• Dramatic illustration: Endurance in one modality (like swimming) doesn't carry much to another (like running).

  • Personal anecdote: Sal shares being “gassed” boxing despite high jiu jitsu endurance [14:51].

5. Cardio and Fat Loss: Myths and Best Use

• Cardio is NOT the best tool for fat loss; strength training with added activity/walking is superior for body composition.
  • Cardio-focused fat loss often results in more muscle loss. Slow, steady activity is metabolically sparing and supports fat loss.
  • Quote [16:09, Adam]:
    "The person who only lost body fat because they chose just to increase activity in order to create the calorie deficit ... will have kept the muscle..."

6. Cardio for Muscle Gain

• For muscle-building, high-rep strength work builds “strength-stamina,” e.g., 20-rep squats.
  • Real-world stamina is built here, but it won’t make you a top endurance runner.
  • Quote [19:48, Sal]:
    "You do high reps... strength, stamina, and you're also building some muscle."

7. Cardio for Longevity

• Walking wins for health, recovery, technique safety, and consistency as the best form for longevity, especially combined with strength and mobility work.

8. Host Cardio Preferences

• Adam: Elliptical, incline treadmill walk, rowing as a challenge.
• Sal: Liked the VersaClimber (brutal but effective).
• Justin: Hills/turf, athletic modalities.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• [07:16, Doug]: "The goal is efficiency at that point of being able to manage your energy for an extended amount of time. So that requires you to have really good mechanics so you're not ... put[ting] forth more excess amount of effort just to sustain it."
• [09:23, Sal]: “This is a very common form of exercise. It is rare that I see somebody with mechanics. In fact, it’s so rare that when I see it, I watch them.”
• [14:55, Adam]: “It’s different two rounds in [boxing]. Four minutes and you’re done.”
• [15:48, Sal]: “Walking. Yeah, walking is a phenomenal form of exercise to complement strength training.”
• [32:25, Sal]: On adjusting protein timing and how aging changed their perceptions of what “works” for recovery and sleep.
• [35:11, Adam]: On whether you should trust young fitness influencers: "You could have all the book smarts in the world at 25 ... but until you’ve reached an age where a lot of these things start ... you really understand."

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [03:15] – Cardio intro & picking the right cardio for your goals
• [04:22] – Why Mind Pump is not “anti-cardio”; Cardio myths for fat loss
• [05:10] – Steady-state cardio, mechanics, and equipment choices
• [09:23] – Observing bad running form and why humans lose it
• [12:07] – Safer endurance options: elliptical, stationary bike
• [13:13] – Cardio for athleticism; importance of sport-specific stamina
• [14:51] – Personal stamina story (Sal’s jiu jitsu to boxing conversion)
• [15:48] – Walking as the best fat loss cardio, body composition vs. just weight loss
• [19:48] – High reps for muscle-building endurance
• [22:12] – Strongman/Strength endurance example (programming high-rep work)
• [23:39] – Hosts’ favorite cardio equipment
• [44:08] – Honey, allergies, and health: “Milk and honey” segment
• [61:05] – Q&A: Reclaiming strength, independence, and health at 58
• [63:32] – Q&A: Making aesthetic progress at maintenance calories
• [66:24] – Q&A: Preventing injury with age
• [69:45] – Q&A: Programming for mobility without sacrificing strength

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Memorable Moments

• Running Mechanics Rant: Adam and Sal break down why running is so injury-producing for the average person, emphasizing that watching a “good” runner is like watching “a beautiful thing” [09:53].
• Dad Energy Hack Stories: The crew shares strategies for “conserving” energy while playing with their kids, from cutting off angles in tag to resting during games [24:44–26:43].
• Supplements, Honey, and Sleep: Adam notes sleep improvements from probiotics (Seed), and the group explores the anti-inflammatory benefits of manuka honey [28:35–46:43].
• Personal Training Lessons: Discussion on why experience is essential for coaches, and on which client types they found most challenging or rewarding (e.g., menopausal women, type-A executives) [35:11–42:31].

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Listener Questions Roundup

1. [61:05] Rebuilding health at 58:
   YES—progress is possible at any age; start slowly, prioritize movement quality, and use a simple approach (strength training 1–2x/week, walking).
2. [63:32] Aesthetic progress at maintenance:
   “Maintenance” is an average; slow progress happens, but scale movement is less dramatic—this is healthier and more sustainable for many.
3. [66:24] Preventing lifting injuries with age:
   Form first, prioritize balanced movement, mix up movement types, and dedicate at least 1/4 of the year to joint health and mobility.
4. [69:45] Mobility + Strength Training:
   Balance sessions: 1–2 full-body strength days, frequent mobility work; focus workouts around maximizing range and connection rather than weight.

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Closing Thoughts

The Mind Pump team makes a clear, evidence-based case that cardio is not one-size-fits-all: choose the form and dose that matches your skill, health history, and—most importantly—your goal. Avoid common cultural myths, especially around cardio for fat loss, and understand the value of walking and strength-training as mainstays. Above all, start slow, learn correct mechanics, and keep an open, individualized approach to movement as your needs and life change.

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Transcript

[A]

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Your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind Pump Mind Pump.

[B]

With your hosts Sal Destefano, Adam Schaefer.

[C]

And Justin Andrews, you just found the.

[A]

Most downloaded fitness, health and entertainment podcast in the history of the entire universe. It's true. This is Mind Pump, right? In today's episode we pick questions off of Instagram Indpump Media to answer at the end of the show. The beginning is the intro. 55 minute long intro. We talk about fitness, fat loss, muscle gain, current events, family life. Again, if you want to post a question that we can pick for an episode like this, go to Instagram mindpumpmedia. This episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Seed. This is the world's best hands down probiotic. Of course probiotics help with gut health but they also help with skin, mental health, anxiety. They can help with athletic performance, fat loss, muscle gain. It's all backed by data and science. Go check them out. Go to seed.com mindpump use the code 25mindpump get 25% off. This episode is also brought to you by Manukora. This is Manuka Honey that's super high in mgo. This is great for gut health. Anti inflammatory antimicrobial makes a great post workout carbohydrate source especially for muscle recovery. Go check them out. Go to manukora.com that's M A N UK O R A dot com mindpump the code mindpump gets you 31% plus $25 worth of free gifts with their starter kit. Go do it. Also this month, Maps GLP1 is 50% off. This is a workout program with diet advice, supplement advice and lifestyle guidance for people who are using a GLP1 like ozempic, wegovy, semaglutide, tirzepatide. Maximize fat loss. Keep the muscle on your body. Don't slow your metabolism down. Do it the right way. Go to maps glp1.com use the code GLP50 for that half off discount. All right, real quick.

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Head on over to my pumpstore.com that's it.

[B]

Enjoy the rest of the show.

[A]

Cardio training. It's a form of exercise with many benefits. But the question is which form of cardio and how to do it for what goal? We're going to talk about that today. You want endurance, athleticism, fat loss, muscle gain, longevity. What are the different types of cardio? How should you do it? How should you implement it for your specific goal? Let's get into it.

[B]

You see that qualified for this.

[D]

You care about cardio?

[A]

No, it's good. I'm so glad you said that. Sometimes people get the. Often I should say people get the. The idea that we're like anti cardio. But that's not true. It's because often times the people that we help on the podcast, callers that call in have a specific type of goal and if their calories are super low, they've been dieting like crazy. They want fat loss. They only can work out a couple days a week. Well, we give them the best, you know, approach to that. But nonetheless, like cardio is a form of exercise and different forms of exercise think of them as different tools in your toolbo. And some tools are great for certain jobs and not so great for other jobs. So I'd like to talk about how to implement it if one of your goals or one.

[B]

Well, let's just. I mean, the simpler way to say this is that 90 of the people that ask for our help primarily are looking for fat loss. And cardio is a terrible tool for fat loss, right? Yeah, and I don't. But that's not widely accepted. In fact, it's more widely accepted, counter cultural. The cardio. Cardio is the best method for fat loss, when in fact it's a terrible method that way.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And so that's why I think that message comes out or sounds like we're anti card. Anti cardio. Cardio is incredible for you. It's a healthy stamp build, stamina, exercise for the heart. Very good for you. But in the context of Adam, I want to lose body fat. Adam, I want to lose fat. It is not a great, especially in.

[A]

The context of, you know, to paint that picture further, you know, lots of stress, have under eight in the past, not very strong. You add that all up. You know, as coaches, that's what you do, right? You look at the person, look at the situation, figure out what their goal is trying to find and then try to find the best approach which will give them the best results, most sustainable, the one that they're most likely to maintain based off the information that you get. But let's, let's start with endurance. Okay. I think everybody knows that cardio training is the best way to improve endurance. It's a great tool for endurance. But we do need to break up endurance into kind of subcategories. There's kind of steady state endurance. This is the kind of endurance that you're not like maxing out with your intensity, but you're sustaining a relatively high level of energy, energy expenditure for prolonged periods of time. Like, I just want overall endurance. I, I want to be able to do things for long periods of time. This is where the traditional form of cardio really does shine. This is your, what we refer to as steady state cardio. Getting on an elliptical or a bike or a treadmill, or running outside at a decent pace, but not sprinting, not even close to sprinting, but maintaining it for long periods of time. That's how you build this kind of endurance, the best form of exercise for that kind of endurance.

[B]

Now, do you think different pieces of equipment lend themselves better?

[A]

I think such a great question, yes. I think some pieces of equipment are more difficult than others, so you're going to get more of a challenge. But I think the number one thing that people should consider is their ability to perform this repetitive motion with good technique. That's the most important thing to consider because running in terms of, you know, energy expenditure, oxygen utilization, like, it's a great form of exercise for endurance. It really is. The problem with running is it's technical and most people can't run to fatigue without form breaking down and dramatically increasing risk of injury. So that for most people, I don't say, I say to them, don't run unless you, unless you plan on learning how to run for a while before you actually use it for exercise.

[D]

The goal really is efficiency at that point of being able to manage your energy for an extended amount of time. So that requires you to have really good mechanics. So that way you're not having to put forth more excess amount of effort just to sustain it. So, and again, this. It comes with practice and it comes with, you know, a lot of repetition, but, you know, that's something to factor in.

[A]

It's.

[D]

You want to get to a. A point where it, it pretty much feels seamless.

[B]

I. There's a bit of a challenge, though, with this, this statement or this conversation that we're having right now, and I think that's because most people don't realize how much they suck at running.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I'm serious.

[A]

I know.

[B]

So you, you make the point. Right. I'm listening to you, and you're like, you know, talking about how it can lead to injury. So people think in their head, like, oh, I run all the time, and I've never, like, fallen and got hurt or tore or.

[A]

It doesn't hurt yet.

[B]

Yeah. But the, the injury you're talking about is more like chronic and overuse injury and running a lot. When you run with poor form repetitively, it's not the, the injury I'm worried about, per se, of you falling and breaking your kneecap or tearing your Achilles when you're doing. It's the repetitive, poor patterns that you're. And then it creates dysfunction in the rest of the body, which then relates to chronic pain.

[A]

Yeah. Like knee pain.

[B]

So it's a sneaky pain.

[A]

Totally.

[B]

That happens from running. And most people think because they can run and they can go out and do it and endure it, that they're pretty good at it. And in fact, most people actually suck at it and should probably choose a form like elliptical.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Or sitting on a recumbent bike for that type of endurance training. It'd be far safer for them. And it would create less bad patterns than running out on the.

[A]

Because the skill, the skill required is so much lower.

[D]

Shock absorption is a big part of that whole process with the mechanics. And so if you haven't figured out, figured that out, or been taught, you know, the true mechanics of that, like going out and running on the pavement is probably, you know, horrible idea.

[A]

Yes, 100%, I'll say this is true. Like anybody who understands mechanics. Okay, so Coaches. Trainers. Especially running coaches. When you go outside and see people. We live in California, so I. People run every day. I see somebody running every single day at least once. Typically more than once. Especially when it's sunny outside. This is a very common form of exercise. It is rare that I see somebody with mechanics. In fact, it's so rare that when I see it, I watch them. Yeah. Like, wow, that's what it looks like.

[B]

That's a good runner.

[D]

It's like a beautiful thing.

[A]

Wow. It is absolutely mechanics. Now why do we suck at it? Is it because we're not supposed to run? No, humans are actually built to run. We actually have, we have these big knee joints, we have these big glutes, we're upright. We have a foot that's muscular and a shock absorbing Achilles tendon. Our bodies actually are. This is one of the reasons why humans were apex predators, among other reasons is we could actually outrun most animals. The thing is we just stop running when we're kids. Nobody runs anymore until you're like after, in fifth grade or so. It's like you stop running even now, kids don't even run.

[B]

And we. Shoes, I was going to say we put casts on our kids feet before they can even walk.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

And so even before, I mean it's crazy when you. I was just talking to somebody who just had a kid and they were asking me like tips and things I went through and I said, man, I tell you what, one of the things I'm so proud that we did that was such a fight with my family was making Max not wear shoes. I'm like he. And I said, I look at his movement patterns now and like the way he squats and moves and he's got such great stability and balance. And then I see his peers and I see how. And you can just tell which kids had shoes on their feet right away. Their knees are already caved in or they have excessive external rotation already or they're not super flat footed. Yes. And, and you people don't, I mean you have what, over 7,000 nerves in the end of your foot. I mean it's more than. They're concentrated there than anywhere else. And so imagine. And anyone who's ever had a cast on their arm or their leg or anything knows what happens. I mean completely atrophies. I mean when you, when you cast it up. And we're typically doing that or pretty much doing that with our kids with their shoes and they never, they never get connected.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so the likelihood that they're going to create good running patterns even at a young age. As a kid is not even good.

[A]

But even then, so much better. Right. Because we stop running when we're kids. Then we decide some usually in our 20s, more likely in our 30s, hey, I'm going to get in shape. Let me start running again. And you just don't do it well. So if you want to run for endurance, the best thing you could do is hire a coach and actually practice and learn biomechanics. And it'll probably take you anywhere between six months to a year. No joke.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

And then at that point, you can run to fatigue and you're gonna do well otherwise. Elliptical is a great choice. Stationary bike is a great choice for that kind of endurance.

[D]

Now prefer hills and turf to. To, you know, just hit the pavement.

[A]

Yes, yes. I think hills for many people is probably more appropriate and kind of a harder walk. Yeah. To build that kind of more on your forefoot. That's right. Now, let's talk about athleticism. Right. What about the kind of endurance you need for athleticism? Nothing will build stamina for athleticism like practicing the sport you want to get increased stamina for. Yeah. Okay. So you can build lots of stamina outside of your sport, and there's going to be a large carryover to your sport. But because athletics and sports require so much skill and technique, there's gonna be a loss of efficiency in your movement that's going to reduce some of the carryover. So if you want to get better at soccer, if you want more endurance for jiu jitsu or boxing or whatever sport, practice more of that sport. Nothing will do it better than the practice of that sport. You'll build the athleticism that you're looking for because the carryover is already there because you're playing that exact thing. Yeah.

[D]

Just keep drilling and pay attention to your rest periods and you can kind of manipulate those rest periods, but doing that specific skill training for a little bit longer period of time and building off of that.

[B]

This is so dramatic. Could you paint the picture on, like, how little of practicing this. The actual sport may has carryover versus just having stamina. In other words, I'm going to compete with somebody in an endurance foot race, running. Okay. And I'm starting from nothing. I don't do anything really at all cardiovascular wise. But in a month, I'm going to race this guy who's a swimmer who swims for endurance every single day. And he's in incredible shape, swims for hours every day. And so he's not even going to practice running. He's like, I already have incredible endurance. I think I could smoke out.

[A]

Great choice, too. Terrible character.

[B]

How, how little of running you think I have to do a week to compete or beat that. That person?

[A]

I mean, if you got decent at running, in a month, you're going to be pretty competitive so long as you have some athleticism there. You know? Another example, I remember experiencing this myself. I'll tell a personal example. At one point, I was doing jiu jitsu, Brazilian jiu jitsu, four days a week, plus some additional exercise outside with strength training. And at my peak, I mean, I could go match after match after match, probably five or six in a row and just be able to hang. Like, I had crazy stamina. Then I had a friend of mine who was a boxer and he's like, hey, Sal, would you like to learn boxing? I'm like, of course I'm doing jiu jitsu. Let me learn some, some, some striking. And I did boxing drills with us. Gassed?

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I was so gassed, I'm like, I can't.

[B]

And he's like, it's different two rounds in too.

[A]

Yeah, he's like, it's crazy.

[B]

Totally for like four minutes. Four minutes in and you're done.

[A]

Yeah. So, so inefficient with my movement in box. Every punch I threw, every movement I did was like wasting twice as much energy as I should. So, yeah, you want to get good with stamina at your sport. I hear athletes will say this all the time. How do I get more endurance for this sport? Practice that sport. Nothing will beat that. Then we get to fat loss. And Adam made a very strong statement in the beginning that cardio is a terrible way to burn body fat. That's true. So how would you do cardio then, to assist in fat loss? Well, here's what you do. Strength training is a great form of exercise for fat loss because of its muscle building effect and hormone effect and metabolism boosting effect. All the stuff we talk about on the show many times. What kind of cardio can I add to that to assist the kind of cardio that simply improves your health? Walking. Yeah, walking is a phenomenal form of exercise to complement strength training.

[B]

More activity.

[A]

It doesn't take away from your body's ability to adapt to the strength training. It's actually recuperative, really doesn't break things down. Pretty easy to do. It's healthy. It improves your health overall. And if you're healthier, the strength training is more effective. This Is the form of exercise that we recommend cardio wise to most people, when they call in and they're like, hey, I'm interested in fat loss and.

[B]

People have to understand how, why and how that, how that makes sense, right? So let's say somebody decides they're just going to walk more and the other person goes, oh, I'm going to, I'm going to start doing cardio one hour a day, every day. And the person who is walking only loses two pounds after two weeks. But the person who decided to run every single day lost six pounds. But at the end of the, at the person who lost six pounds more, more than likely are going to have lost three of muscle, three of fat, and the person who lost two lost all body fat, right? And then over time, so who's in a better situation, right? So that person who only lost body fat because they chose just to increase activity in order to create the calorie deficit and didn't push and do cardio, hopefully will or most likely will have kept the muscle so long as everything else is good, diet wise, everything like everything else, training regimens, balance, they'll have lost just body fat. The person who lost lost four more pounds. The other person also sacrificed muscle. So even if they lost one more pound of fat in that scenario that I just painted, they're in a worse situation than the person who kept all their muscle that I don't think people know how to wrap their brain around around. That's what's happening in that situation. And just take that scenario out, double the time and make it now £12 versus £4. Make it, just keep doubling it. And that's the path of the person who is going. The route of using cardio as a fat loss tool is more than likely. They're also going to end up sacrificing some of their muscle. And the person who just goes about more activity but still stays with strength training is more likely just going to lose body fat.

[A]

And that's because when you're challenging that kind of endurance with cardio, you're sending a competing signal to the body because a muscle that is big is not a cardiovascularly efficient muscle. Okay? So if you want more muscle, less body fat, you want body composition, change strength, train good diet, and then you can add walking for the health benefits. It's funny, I had this conversation with my daughter, my daughter, super into strength training. Now she's only 15 and she wants to build muscle to my delight, right? So she tells me this all the time. I want to get jacked and a tear comes down, right? But she's lifting weights, and then now she's about to get ready to. To start soccer season. She wants to try out for the soccer team she played last year, wants to play again. And so I'm like, okay, we got to start conditioning. Like, you got to build endurance. Like, if you got all the strength now that you've built through strength training, but you're gonna get your butt kicked on the field because you need some endurance and stamina. So she's like, cool, give me some conditioning, you know, stuff to do. So I'm having to do drills and some, you know, hit cardio and stuff like that. And then, of course, she comes back and she goes, am I going to lose gains, or am I going to be able to build as much muscle? I'm like, no. Well, how do I do both? You can't. That's not how it works. I said, if you want the muscle and you want that sculpted look, then you strength train and you walk. But if you want endurance with this, it's a combination now. And so I painted. I used the example that I've used before, the analogy I've used on the show where I said, you know. You know, when you play video games and you have 100 points that you could build up your character with, and you have endurance, speed, flexibility, strength, like, you have to allocate the points, and if you put all your points on one, then the others don't have any. That's how it works with performance. But, yeah, when it comes to fat loss, if it's just pure fat loss, okay, which, by the way, a lot of people are just, I just want pure fat loss. I don't care about endurance and stamina. Fine. But there are health benefits to endurance and stamina as well. So consider that nonetheless, you just want fat loss, performance benefits. Yeah, that's right. If you just want fat loss, then just. Just walk, do the strength training, focus on diet. That'll make that happen. Next up is muscle gain. Cardio for muscle gain. What are you guys talking about? I thought you just said, here's what you do when you want that kind of stamina that contributes to muscle gain. You do high reps. Yeah. You do higher reps. That's awesome.

[D]

Novel stimulus.

[A]

That's right. Go do a set of 20 reps in the squat. There's. Now you're getting some strength, stamina, and you're also building some muscle.

[B]

And, dude, to be honest, that the stamina that. That's derived from high rep Squats and deadlifting and movements like that.

[D]

It's crazy how much it translates.

[B]

It definitely very real world. Yes.

[D]

But you wouldn't think that, you know, when you go to run, you feel it.

[B]

Oh, yeah. No, you're, you're. And anyone who's ever done 20 rep squats will tell you it's brutal. It is brutal. But you do it enough times and you'll get adapted and you'll, you'll build some endurance. And that endurance carries over real world for most things that you'll ever even need endurance right now, it won't make you the best 10 mile runner, you.

[A]

Know what I'm saying?

[B]

If you run 10 mile. But if you need to go sprint for a mile with that and you do 20, you'd be surprised how far that'll get you.

[A]

Or you got to go move some furniture. You got to do some, you know, work that requires some stamina. Like that strength. Stamina is what we're talking about.

[D]

Well, especially like explosive sports. And again, you want to kind of mirror what your sport like, the demands of it in terms of intensity. And I also think of like work capacity in this regard.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

So, you know, you being able to sustain a type of tension or you know, hold weight for a certain amount of time, like you need that skill. That's a skill that you need that it'll actually like benefit just your regular workouts when you're not quite as focused on endurance. It's going to improve your overall performance.

[A]

You know, it's a good program that, that we have that has this map strong.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Map strong. The work sessions in there, it's strength endurance.

[B]

And it opens up with. The first phase is high rep.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Is 20 rep stuff. So no. Incredible for this.

[A]

Yeah. And you know, old school bodybuilders had a lot of strength stamina. They're doing, you know, workouts with 40 sets and they're resting short, you know.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

Well, if you guys remember, I mean, this was gnarly. This was one of my favorite programs to create because I felt like we, we all kind of learned something from working with Robert Obers because he was the one that told us how important the endurance training was to Strongman. I mean, initially when we went into that program, we had ideas of, we knew what the lifts we have we could program for get someone strong that. And he was the one that really was just like, oh no, we, you need a way more endurance than you would think. And it's like, oh my God. Like, okay, so that's. It flipped the programming on its head a little bit with how we went about it, which is why that program is so unique. When you look at the work sessions and you look at the first phase where it's 20 reps. Yeah, I know.

[A]

If you look at like a strong, like a good example is like Atlas stones when they're lifting stone after stone after stone after stone, no breaks in between, you need to be strong, obviously one of those stones most people couldn't even roll. But you also need to have strength, endurance to be able to repeat that over and over again. Lastly, longevity. What kind of cardio is going to give me the best longevity? Walking. Yeah, walking and if you threw in the occasional, you know, challenging form of cardio would be great. But walking overall, because people can still walk with good technique, it's not going to cause injury. It's recuperative, it's good activity, doesn't require equipment. When I, when I factor in the consistency that is gets baked in with walking because of all those factors, it's the best, it's the best form of exercise or should I say cardio for longevity in combination with some strength training, mobility and you've got yourself a really, really good, you know, program. What about, do you guys have any favorite cardio machines for yourselves that you guys have used?

[B]

Elliptical. Yeah, I'm, I mean elliptical.

[D]

I like those bike.

[B]

It's gonna.

[A]

Well, he's an athlete bro, of course.

[D]

Like terrible jump rope, bottom of the list.

[B]

I, I mean I, I got into rowing for a bit. I'm in, I got a kick out of, out of rowing and that I guess that's kind of in the same world as the salt bike and I, I get there's been, I'm not saying there's not benefits to that at all. That's just, that's a tough.

[A]

You want to build.

[B]

Like the reason why I like elliptical so much is just because of the, the zero impact. I mean there's no impact and I, and I could still, I could do hit style on it where I could pick it up really fast and spike my heart rate. It's real easy for me to do it like lists cardio, just real steady state cruising on it entry level for anybody. So if I could have a client that has issues, chronic pain and, and I can put them on that and I'm not concerned about doing any more damage or hurting them more. So the elliptical was always a go to machine for me and, and myself. I mean I do a lot of incline walk so incline walking is you know, to Justin's point about hill stuff. Like, I love. I love hill. And that feels really good on the joints to be at an incline than it does to be on flat ground. So if you catch me at the gym doing cardio, which I do occasionally, you'll see me on the elliptical or doing an incline walk almost always.

[A]

I like the versa climber at one point. Remember that bad boy.

[B]

Those are brutal.

[A]

Brutal.

[B]

Good, though.

[A]

10 minutes.

[B]

Yeah, those are 10 minutes. Those are good, too.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, really good. Speaking of running, I got to tell you guys about. So funny. We were at the we after church. They have a playground at our church, and we took the kids there, and you see parents with their kids and stuff. And there was a younger dad there with his kids friend of mine, and he was laughing at how I was playing with my son. And so I just. I was like, listen, I said, you're a young dad. You're going to figure this out. There are hacks, in fact, on our walk here today, Adam, you brought this up. Yeah, there are dad hacks to playing with your kids that will minimize the amount of energy expenditure you have to put. Because kids. It's wild to me sometimes seeing my kids run and play.

[D]

It's endless.

[A]

How.

[B]

And talk. How.

[A]

Well, yeah, just. Why aren't you tired right now? We've been running for an hour and a half. You're not even tired. Yeah, but when we play, we're at the playground. And what he does. My son's like, chase me. So I'm like, all right, I'll chase you. I don't chase him. I just cut him off.

[B]

Cut off angles.

[A]

That's all I do. Yeah, I walk. I walk and cut him off and he sprints. That's all I do.

[B]

I brought that up. We were talking about my sister. My sister is very close to my son, and they. And they get to spend time with each other probably once a month or so. They see each other. And part of why he loves her is because she is 100% all in on him. What he wants to do, does all the voices, plays whatever game he wants to play and doesn't stop. She just. She literally. And that's why he just loves being with her, because he gets to do what he wants to do nonstop. But, boy, I see her after a day with him, and she is just spent to the point where a lot of times she'll tell me like, hey, hey, brother, I need to. I just need a break for a little bit. I'm like, I got you. But you know, that's the difference between her and me because I spent a ton of time with my son too. But it's just like I've learned strategies around, like what games we play to give dad a break for a little bit.

[D]

Yes.

[B]

It's like, oh, it's a. It's time for guess who for a while.

[A]

Yeah, I have some fun ones.

[D]

I just get them in a arm lock and then we start wrestling and then I just pin him on the ground. Yeah. Because then use your body mask to kind of like wear them out.

[A]

Oh, I have, I have a game where I lay on the couch and then I go. And they pretend to wake me up. So that's all I'm doing. And then they wake me up and I go, ah, it's a good, It's a good 30, 40 minute just. And I pretend to snore. But really I'm just like, I just want to lay down. My wife got me a shirt once as a joke and it had like roads on it. So you can lay on the floor and your kid could play the car.

[B]

Oh my God. Is that really what it's supposed to be for?

[A]

It was a joke.

[B]

Oh, that's hilarious.

[A]

Yeah, there's videos like that online where it's like, it's like dad hack videos where like there was a dad drinking a beer and he had a long rope attached to a swing and he would just pull it and let his kids swing back and forth while he's drinking.

[B]

The baseball one was one of my favorites. The dad who had the. Who put the T ball on a fishing pole line.

[D]

Yeah, fishing.

[B]

He had a fishing. He had a fishing pole line. Oh, yeah. And the kid would whack, you know, then he just reel it all the way back instead. I mean, anybody's a dad knows like you've got, you come. You have to come up with some stuff like that. I don't care how fit and athletic you are, you. You ain't keeping up.

[A]

No.

[B]

You come home from work keeping up with a 3 year old. I don't care. Come on now. You best. You'd be the best shape of your life. And a three year old still will bury you.

[D]

They'll bury you all time quarterback. Now that would never happen.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Go long, go long.

[A]

No, further, further.

[D]

Run this round again.

[A]

There was, there was one where this dad was laying down and his kids were all competing to see who could the best while he was taking a nap. These are all great. These are my favorite ones to learn about cardio advice. Yeah, dude. Anyway, I gotta tell. Hey, I gotta tell you guys, dude. So you know, I've been pulling up studies on fat loss, muscle gain, performance as it's connected on, based on studies, like new studies to probiotic use. Yeah, okay.

[D]

Yeah, that's trip, trip wild.

[A]

There's all these studies now that are showing that probiotics assist in fat loss. Assistant muscle.

[B]

I was gonna say. Do you think it's going to make it into more of the sports performance category?

[A]

Yep, I think it's gonna be a. I think it's gonna be.

[B]

Because I mean, historically it's a wellness supplement. Yeah, it would use. And it was gut health. Yeah. And I mean, I would almost argue 10 years ago we put it in the hippie dippy side. Not a lot of muscle building fat loss people were talking about probiotics at all?

[A]

Nope.

[B]

But you think it's going to make its way into that?

[A]

Yes, because fat loss is a much bigger market. So if a probiotic can, can promote the fat loss effects, they're going to sell way more. But it's backed by data and study. So anyway, where I'm going with this is we partner with seed and just for people that know they're literally the best probiotic, they have, the best scientists, best data, the best.

[B]

You remember how long it's been best scientists? Six, Six years.

[A]

They're, they're good. They're the best. Like they're in a different category when it comes to probiotics. Anyway, I've been using them for a while and I ran out for a while. Okay. So I hadn't used them for a while. So for whatever reason, they hadn't sent any. I told Jerry, our assistant, hey, get me some more, started using them again. This time I'm like, let me pay attention to see if I notice any performance benefits or any other effects that maybe I didn't notice before. Because all I ever pay attention to with, with probiotics is your gut was gut health digestion. You know, how, how, how good I feel after meals or when I use the restroom. That kind of stuff, which I always noticed. Here's what I noticed. Two things were out the gates. More stamina and better sleep. Better sleep. So taking them at night, better sleep's.

[B]

A huge selling point.

[A]

Yes, dude. Because you take seed recommends you take it before bed. So that's what I've been, that's what I've been doing. And my sleep.

[B]

What is it?

[D]

Just for bed.

[B]

What is it? Because it's improving that digestive system. What, I mean, what is it?

[A]

Neurotransmitter production, reduced inflammation, gut health. It's got to be all of those things.

[B]

Just because you're going to bed feeling way better, probably.

[A]

I wake up less in the middle of the night from taking it. It's pretty cool, right? Yeah.

[B]

Do you guys have a time? Like, have you. I've. I've wanted to get it down to the hour and figure this out. I just know there's a difference because I. I have a habit of eating late. Right. Of, you know, eating something after dinner, 10 o' clock at night, ice cream. Sometimes it is that. And so, I mean, other times I make good choices and I still use things like magic spoon a lot. My. And this is also when I do Greek yogurt and stuff like that. But nonetheless, like, I definitely have a habit of eating later. I do know when I stick to a meal, my last dinner just being dinner, I do tend to sleep.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Better. What I haven't done is actually, like, been real consistent with different hour marks to figure out, like, oh, there it is. When I go four hours before, two hours or one hour before bedtime. Have you. Have you guys?

[D]

Oh, yeah. If I cross eight, I'm.

[B]

Yeah. As I say, you. You're more sensitive to that.

[D]

So for bed, I'll usually 11.

[A]

Okay. So you're like four hour. Three, you know, four hours, basically.

[B]

So, you know, you know that, like, definitive.

[D]

Yeah, it's like. And I test of it.

[B]

Yeah. I say you're more. I know that's been something that you've dealt with a lot. And so, you know, like eight o', clock, you shut it down no matter what.

[A]

Three, four hours.

[B]

That's good.

[D]

Kids know it now, too, which is, it's, it's annoying. It's like they're trying to be helpful, but like, yeah, Courtney will make something and then it's taking a bit longer and it's cooking, you know, for. For everybody to have a treat. And then it's just like, it's past that. That point. And I'm like, I can't.

[B]

Oh, so you brought that up. I heard you say that the other day. Is that the reason why you chose not to eat? What? Because you. I thought you made a comment the other day about she was making some new.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it ended up being later when I get done. And you'll opt out tonight, I just won't eat.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Wow.

[D]

I've had to do that. And I, I, you know, it's. It's one of those give and take things because it's like she's making a meal or like, you know, I want to make sure that I. Yeah, like, I respect that and honor that, but it's like I.

[B]

She knows.

[D]

She knows now too. Like, she seen me get up in the middle of the night and, you know, and I'll like throw up. It's so bad. Like, I have such bad heartburn and everything else. And so it's just like it's not even worth it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Yeah. So you've nailed it down to that.

[A]

Yeah. If for me, I can have a protein shake right before bed if it's like 20, 25 grams and I'm okay. Otherwise if I. Because I go to bed usually 9:30, it's typically 6, 6:30 that I feel best.

[B]

Yeah. I also noticed for me, again, I haven't got down to the hour and the time, but I also notice a difference on trained days versus untrained days too. It's like my body wants way less calories on a untrained day. And if I over consume and late on day, oh, I'm up.

[A]

Then you're screwed.

[B]

Yeah, I'm screwed. Whereas if I had like a really good training session that day, it seems that I can still get away with that Greek yogurt late at night and still feel pretty good and be fine.

[A]

I hate God. I reminisce on the days when it didn't matter.

[B]

You know what though? Okay, We've speculated on this. Did it not matter or were you just so.

[D]

Was I taking more Tums?

[B]

Were you just. Just so naive?

[A]

No, dude, for sleep, it definitely didn't matter. I could eat a pizza, go to bed.

[B]

I know, it was fun. I think I'm convinced that I was just so naive to it that I didn't know.

[A]

You're getting old, bro.

[B]

Because I also. I also used to think that just like unnatural stools were normal. That everybody, you know, saying, like, it wasn't until I got older that I really like, like, I'm so in tune with that now that it's just like, oh, that's awful. Little bit. I'm like, oh, I'm paying. Where. When I was younger, that happened all the time, all over the place. Yeah. There was no consistency with those. And I just thought everybody was like that. I just thought that, you know, you just. It's a roll of dice.

[A]

Unless it was really bad. You're right, because it was really bad.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. I'm not talking about like that, but I'm just. Just off. Where I'm very aware. I mean, is that, like an old man thing too, that you become aware of.

[D]

I think I just could recover better, you know, like it's so you would just think it didn't cause that big of a.

[B]

It's just more resilient when you're 20. Yeah, it's more like that stuff you bounce back. So I think it's more of that style. I think we were probably just as impacted and maybe there's a little bit of the, obviously the compounding of decades of continuing that way that you are a little worse. But I bet we weren't good back then too.

[A]

Dude. I don't know, man. I used to, I used to, I used to work in the gym. I mean, I was a kid, so this is like, I was like early 20s, you know, 19, 20, 21, I'd finish work at. So I'd be there all day. I'd come home by 10, I'd hang out till 11:30 midnight. I'd wake up at 6 every day, every single day. And I was fine, I felt fine the whole time. So I don't know. I can't do that now. If I do that now.

[B]

Do you. Because of all your age and your experience and, you know, you were really, you were a really smart kid too. Do you think that there is, do you think that the average consumer should really pay attention to the age of the person that you're getting advice from?

[A]

I definitely think experience makes a difference. Of course it does. Yeah, of course it does.

[B]

Because you could have, you could have all the book smarts in the world at 30 years old or 25 years old and, and really understand anatomy, physiology and training, programming and all those things like that. But until you've reached an age of like when a lot of these things.

[D]

Start personally and how many people have you actually trained.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

And coached through that process.

[A]

I wasn't a good look. I started, I've been training people since I was 18. I probably wasn't good until I was in my early 30s. Until I was in my early 30s.

[B]

I felt really good. I feel that too. I don't think I, I didn't, at least I didn't think of myself as that good until. Yeah, yeah. In my twenties. That I was good with people.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And I knew, I knew, I knew I was good with people. I cared, I was passionate about it. Did the courses, I, I, I was thirsty for knowledge. So I was always learning, growing and so, so to a lot of my clients, they probably thought I was good, but I don't think I really thought I was good.

[A]

No. One of the biggest mistakes I would make back then, because that can be very convincing. Right. I could be. I could. I can motivate people and inspire people. And this is what I leaned on when I was a kid.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I'd get a client that's like, oh, I don't know if I'm gonna do that. And I would just motivate and inspire them to do all these big changes. And then, you know, of course, they couldn't stay consistent because I was setting them up for failure. That took me 10 years to figure.

[B]

I remember I was 28 when I started to shift the client that I took. So I would. Most of my career remember, I was managing. So I had a small group of people I was training. I wasn't training, like, a training volume like Justin was. Justin trained a lot more clients later in his life.

[A]

So.

[B]

And I used to early on take just my five favorite five or 10 clients that I'd be helping. And that's how towards the end of my career when that confidence was built, I used to ask for the hardest client. Right. Like, I would tell my staff, my trainers, or the. Or the kids that were sales, like, when you get that person who has got dysfunction, has struggled their whole life, was that, I'll take that now. And that wasn't until then did I have that confidence of like, okay, the.

[A]

Hardest clients taught me the most. Yeah, they taught me the most about being a good trainer. The ones that challenged my preconceived notions what I thought was right. You know, I had a client once that just did better not eating most meat, which most people are not like that. Most people are like, that totally shook my paradigm apart. And we broke everything down. I'm like, oh, my God, he does feel better. I guess there is a big individual variance. I remember that distinctly when I argued with him for months.

[B]

When I say to you guys, hardest client to challenge, what pops in your mind? Like when I say hardest person for you to help, what pops in your mind first?

[A]

You mean generally or specifically?

[B]

Generally? Generally, yeah. Oh, like a type of. A type of client.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

Which we've trained all types. That comes to mind right away when.

[A]

I say high, high level, competitive, ex. Athlete.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay, interesting.

[D]

And also very knowledgeable. Yeah, well, mainly because they come in with all this preconceived ideas of how it's all supposed to be, and, like, they're coming in with, like, a lot of demands, and I'd have to, like, you know, work with that and, like, really, like, Dissect it and steer it better.

[B]

I would say menopausal women.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I had such a. I did well.

[A]

With them, but that's because I was. I. I don't know how to navigate.

[B]

I. I struggled so much with that early on in my career. I just did not.

[A]

Totally different hormone profile.

[B]

Yeah. I didn't have the. I didn't have the knowledge and understanding around hormones and how much of an impact they made. And even if they went and got their blood work and came back and told me this, this is down all the things like that, I would be like, what do I do?

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

And it felt like nothing worked, you know, and they. Those clients, a lot of times seem like they were the clients that would adhere to what I was saying within the. The scale or the thing wouldn't move in any direction. And so when I think of hard client, that was like the hardest. Yeah.

[D]

When hormones are really off and you don't really know, that's the issue.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

Yeah, good point.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's before I figured that out, because.

[A]

Remember, I figured that out later. And then I would work with hormone specialists.

[B]

Yes. Because when we. When in our first decade of training. So I'm thinking from 20 to 30 years old.

[A]

Nothing about.

[B]

They're very. Yeah, we weren't really. You weren't. That wasn't a major conversation. It wasn't talked about.

[A]

I don't know.

[D]

The science certifications didn't even cover any of that.

[B]

So I would. It was like I felt like I always. I would fail that client all the time because I didn't even know where to refer them. I didn't have the answers to them. So that was my. I'd say those were my clients that you.

[A]

You did generally best with or the ones that you really. Yeah, the ones you really had the most success with with. Yeah. Besides the easy one, of course.

[B]

Oh, I'll type A to the type A CEO Y. I got a theory right now.

[A]

Let's. Let's go all the way around.

[B]

Okay. I have a theory, too, around why that is. I think it's the people that you identify.

[A]

Yeah, I was going to say that.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah, I do. I think. I think if you identify with them, you. You see the pitfalls better, you know what I'm saying? And speak to them too. Yeah. And exactly. You can relate, which. That's such a big part of training is the ability to relate to all clients. It's obviously easier to relate to somebody who you go, oh, yeah, I operate like that.

[A]

So.

[B]

And let me tell You. I've learned this doesn't work. And I bet you think that's a good idea. It's not a good idea. And so you do better.

[A]

So.

[B]

Yeah, no, I. I tend to. To gravitate. Gravitate to the type A or cortisol junkie. Like highly motivated entrepreneur, business executive.

[D]

Yeah. Somebody in that kind of, like, life demanding, like always on the go, always having to answer phone calls.

[A]

Was that you also? Oh, wow.

[D]

Yeah, that was my main demographic that I got.

[A]

That's true, huh. For a while, for me, I did really well with doctors. Well, old people. Because that's. Because. Personally. No, just because you looked old. Yeah, that's right. No, I love. At some point, I hope that washes out. You know what I mean? I keep looking older than my age. I thought that was going to change at some point. I like doctors, science, you know, like psychologists, psychiatrists, doctors, surgeons. I always did really well with them because I could communicate with them in a way that I guess I did.

[B]

I did, too, but not for the same reasons you did. I. This was actually what taught me, I think a really good lesson I was trying to teach to our trainers. I knew I was dumber than you, and I would not even try and pretend like I wasn't. You know what I'm saying? Like, you want it. You want to fail with a doctor client or a brilliant client is try and act smarter than. You really are gonna be wrong. Yes. So, yeah, I mean, I. In those. Those types of clients, you know, feeding into the ego and tell. Oh, man, I'm so excited to train. I can't wait to learn. You know what I'm saying? Approaching it that way versus trying to act like I'm a super smart trainer. I know what. I know all these things because you slip and I. Because I made that mistake. I made the mistake of pretending to be smarter than I am with someone like that. And they expose that, and then you lost all credibility and trust with that.

[A]

Yeah. So for me, it was the reverse because they would assume that you weren't that smart.

[B]

And then you were training. You surprised them.

[A]

And I would surprise them with something and then they'd say, how did you. Oh, that's interesting. And then right away there would be some.

[B]

That's really cool because we both had the success with those types of clients, but for different reasons.

[A]

Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Well, this is. This is. Listen, this speaks to coach.

[B]

They're like you. They look at me, they go like, you're probably a dumb trainer. Like you're right. You know a lot more of me. And you were like, assessment. You were like, okay, let them think that. And then, and then they're like, whoa. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Mitochondria. Yeah.

[D]

I just put them right back to work.

[A]

Keep moving like. Yeah, that's interesting. That's nice. Two more sets. Do more reps. You're good, dude. No, that's great. Anyway, I want to talk about one of our partners, Monicora, that if I've been looking into the. The data on the compounds in that type of honey, it's interesting. The anti inflammatory effects and the antimicrobial effects of that is pretty remarkable. So I'm gonna. I've been using it as a post workout and I, I'm gonna kind of let you guys know what I notice that I'm getting from it. But it's really fascinating to see, you know that they, they've used that to clean wounds, to heal skin because of some of it's a, you know, natural antimicrobial, anti inflammatory effects.

[D]

That's crazy.

[A]

It's pretty wild.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Honey is a bit. Okay, so salt. At one point there was wars. Did we ever. I mean, I would think honey would be something like that.

[A]

Oh yeah. Because milk and honey. Why do you think they say that?

[B]

Oh, I don't know that.

[A]

What is that? Well, milk. Is that me? That means a land that is. Is beautiful.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

That is fertile like honey was. I mean, that's. That's the nature's candy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you have to get through bees in order to get it.

[B]

So it's calorie dense. You don't have. People don't have any side effects from it. It's like gives you fuel and energy, tastes amazing, doesn't go bad. So it's like. To me, I would think it's something that would have been fought over.

[A]

Isn't that wild? You could leave honey out, Doug. Fact check me on that. But I'm pretty sure honey, you could just leave it out forever.

[D]

I feel like they found some from the Jurassic period or something.

[A]

It just crystallizes.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

But it doesn't go bad. It doesn't grow bacteria or anything like that because of its antimicrobial.

[B]

So explain to me it's Manukora. Manu Akora.

[A]

Manukora is the one that we're working with. Manuka. Honey is Manuka.

[B]

Describe to me what is unique about that honey versus your typical. My neighbor who has beehives and I get my honey from him.

[A]

Yeah. Doug, look up the. Look up our Brand. Because I want to get the numbers correct.

[B]

Yeah. You can leave honey out forever.

[A]

Yeah. Wow. Wow. Yeah. It doesn't grow bacteria. Isn't that wild? All right, Doug, look up our. Our com. The company we work with, Monacora, because they. They have. Oh, here it comes. Okay. What is the compound in there? I don't want to get it wrong that it's high in that other. So much so mgo. Okay. So MGO is. You find higher amounts of manuka honey. Manukora is twice or three times higher than other.

[B]

Now, is this because of where the bees are as far as. What's the landscape? Flowers and stuff that it's around a.

[C]

Plant that is it.

[B]

That it's getting.

[C]

It gets the.

[B]

So that's why it does. So this. It matters where the. The these bees are from. So it's less about like. It's not like a type of a bee that's producing something unique. It's that they are going and they're. They're feeding on all the different flowers.

[A]

Honey is very interesting. You know, it helps. We've talked about this before too. Honey that is local helps with allergies.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because you start to consume some of the pollen and stuff that's in the area in. In a form that typically won't bother you and body builds up. Yeah. Or reduces its immune response. Didn't you say you were doing that for a while?

[B]

Yes. It's huge difference. So I have lived obviously in a bunch of different spot houses and I've had allergies my entire life. And I've had allergy seasons where I have to take an allergy pill during the season every single day. And then I've had other seasons, like this season, where I think I literally took one, maybe two allergy pills all this year. And I attribute it to things like honey.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Right now I have a neighbor who lives next door to me that has beehives that is literally his bees are.

[A]

How much honey do you have then on a daily basis you just like a little teaspoon.

[B]

A little teaspoon. I put in tea. A lot of times we drink a lot of tea at my house. And so a lot of times I'll put it in the tea at night. Sometimes I'll just take it straight. But yeah, I normally just mix it in tea. And I wouldn't even say it's every. Every day. Even in. It's just, you know, I just make it a point to do it where it's not like something that would organically pop up in My diet every day. I also love to drizzle it over the Greek yogurt thing that I do.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

So I go Greek yogurt, the blueberries, granola, and then drizzle that honey over it and it's like. And so I do that dish quite a bit.

[A]

Doug, I want you to type something in and look it up for me, because I want to. This. This is. It's a really interesting phenomenon. I'm. I bet Justin knows about it. If he doesn't, I'd be surprised. Have you guys heard of third man syndrome? Him before? Have you heard of this?

[D]

I feel like I have.

[A]

So type this in. This is a real thing.

[B]

Third man.

[A]

This is a real thing that happens. And they try to explain the. Like when you're the.

[B]

When you're the other guy that's like me. Is that why he thinks Justin, third wheel?

[D]

Usually there's two guys on a podcast.

[B]

Third guy syndrome. Oh, man.

[A]

I'm a syndrome.

[C]

New nickname syndrome.

[A]

So this is the phenomena of sensing an unseen, often comforting presence during a period of extreme stress or in near death experiences. Interesting. So this is like hikers or climbers on, like, Mount Cyrus.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And they're up there and there's. Oh, my God, I'm sorry. Suddenly there's a third person there that's comforting them, talking to them, encouraging them, and it's a real phenomenon.

[B]

Off. Okay. Oh. So they. They believe they sense themselves.

[A]

They sense a presence sometimes. Talk to them. Sometimes it gives them advice that actually turns out to be true and helps them, like, go.

[D]

This one. Guardian. Guardian angel.

[A]

I mean, that's what I'm thinking.

[B]

Like, you know, I didn't know that was a thing. Although I. I've always thought there's something very unique and special to the guy who can climb up Half Dome, put two little screws in the rock and sleep through the night. Oh, what's he doing? I mean, that just.

[C]

Just.

[B]

I. I can't. What are you doing? I can't even wrap my brain around.

[A]

I'm getting sweaty things.

[B]

Yeah. The ability to do that and to be calm is just that you. You have to have.

[A]

Bro, I went to Yosemite and I slept.

[B]

What are those?

[A]

They're not like tents. They're like permanent tents. What are they called where they're like. Are they yurts? Is that what they're called?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. They have yurts there, right? I couldn't sleep all night because I'm like, a bear could easily come inside this all night. I couldn't Imagine sleeping on a cliff.

[D]

No, that's the bottom of the cliff. Because I'm like, like tossing, turning. Dude, I'm. I'm off.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

Having a bad dream now.

[B]

I know there is, there is. I do know there's a factor that, that's played in there and I believe they, I think they talked about this in that, that movie or that documentary solo where something to do with the frontal lobe that their perception of, of.

[A]

Like they basically are numb all the time.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. They're basically. They have to do things that are literally, you know, flirting with death for.

[D]

Them to feel alive.

[B]

So what. Yeah. What you, what you and I might feel like from the, the light, like driving fast, you get an adrenaline rush that person needs to be near death to feel even remotely close to the adrenaline rush that you get from driving.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Which that's, that's has to be right.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I would think that everybody who can do that has to have some form of that.

[A]

I bet you. I wonder if super high performing fighter jet pilots, astronauts, like, they have something like that, right. Because they have to be able. They get calmer during these extremely stressful situations. Yeah. Like these people who are signing up. Have you seen these people signing up to go to Mars?

[D]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

They're not coming back. They know they're not coming back. Yeah, I'll go to Mars. I'll leave.

[D]

They just selected some lady, I think. Dude, what are you doing?

[A]

Lady? You're gonna be the only lady on Mars with dudes.

[D]

A more hostile environment than actually like the depths of our oceans.

[A]

Yeah. And you're gonna go live there forever. Like, what do you think? Like, that's not safe.

[B]

Is it considered more hostile than the depths of our oceans? Is that true?

[D]

I would, I would assume so.

[A]

Did you just make that statement up, Justin?

[B]

Because he said it so confidently.

[D]

They've said that before because it's like getting there. If you factor in all the, the opposing forces, then yes. I mean, yeah, you do have like crazy pressure that will, you know, you'll implode in our depths of the ocean.

[A]

So Alyssa Carson has expressed interest, but nobody's officially.

[B]

You know this, don't you? What, what percentage of the ocean have we like, still explored?

[D]

Yeah, very little.

[A]

Yeah, we know more about them.

[B]

Is it, Is it like, is it literally more than half that we, we haven't.

[A]

Oh, that we have Mariana Trench.

[D]

They finally.

[B]

Way more than half that we have explored.

[A]

Oh, yeah, bro. The ocean's so vast. It's, it's. You can look that up, Doug. What percentage?

[D]

Yeah, let's look that up.

[A]

More than 80%. Oh, that says 99.99 of the ocean floor. That's a YouTube video, though. Let's see what the. What's the actual number? Let me see. 80% remains.

[B]

Wow.

[C]

AI mode. Let's see what that says.

[B]

That is crazy when you think about it.

[A]

Yeah, it is.

[C]

That's over 80%.

[B]

Yeah. Wow. We've literally only discovered 20% of what's underneath us.

[A]

So hard to get down there. Well, that.

[D]

I guess that's the point of it. It's like there's so much to discover here still. And we're, like, deciding to go, you know, years away and discover a new planet.

[A]

How long does it take to get to Mars? Do you know that?

[B]

Is it three years?

[D]

A couple years.

[B]

I thought it was three.

[D]

Yeah, sounds about you.

[A]

Imagine that floating in space for two years. No, and then you're.

[B]

So it's like in a tin can.

[A]

No. And then you get there and that's where you're at.

[C]

Six to nine months.

[A]

Oh, okay.

[D]

Way off.

[B]

Maybe it was. Maybe it was. Maybe if you did a round trip, it was supposed to be three years, like, in total. Is that right? Because you do lose time, don't you? Don't you lose time?

[D]

Six to nine months.

[A]

Why? Because. No, I don't think it's like. What's that movie?

[C]

So there's an ideal launch window that happens every 26 months. So maybe once you get up there.

[B]

Oh, so that's why you have to wait. So that's why a couple years. Yeah. Because you can't just go at any time.

[D]

Time.

[A]

Oh, yeah. Nope. Last thing I would ever do is fly away from Earth for that long. Yeah.

[B]

Do something that has nothing that. The radiation building in and out or anything. There's nothing there that you can go to. What are you gonna do?

[D]

Well, and two, that they're gonna have to. I heard. I heard, like, a speculation of why Elon Musk is, like, he has all the businesses that he has. Right. He's got the boring business, he's got the robots and he's got, you know, the. The AI and all the signal. So it can all. He can send them all, you know, early to Mars so that way you can drill. Because a lot of it has to be underground, you know, for, you know, building the. The actual community and. And a lot of the buildings and things to live there and, like, farm and do all the agriculture.

[A]

Eventually. Eventually.

[B]

I don't understand because to your point, there's so Much land that we haven't. I mean there's, there's deserts for long for, you know, hundreds of miles and there's, there's places that we could go build or dig here.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Why go all the way there in a place that is more dangerous, has less. I don't, I don't understand.

[A]

I don't understand. What's the commercial value of it? I don't think there is any. I think it's just a explorer. Yeah.

[D]

I think this is the adventure part of it. You know, that's just like something to drive towards it. Like I think it's a society thing. Everybody wants to kind of get behind something and they work towards something.

[A]

Do you guys think in the future. So there is abundant.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But with the cost of bringing it back and stuff doesn't make it. Do you guys think at some point that we started calling you Mars? How long do you think before they decide to rebel against us and create their own? That's what we go to war. Every colony I know, that's the US did that to the, to the Great Britain.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

So at some point they're gonna be over there and be like, you know what? We're not gonna listen to Earth anymore. Here's our flag.

[D]

I heard that like India and China now have gone to the moon and before there's this agreement that they wouldn't like film a lot of like certain sides of the moon and, and they're, they're not going to abide by this agreement and so they're going to like live stream once they're there. That was the. The what I heard that they're speculating.

[A]

Well the, the agreement is no one can build a base on the moon because that would put you at a military, massive military advantage. Advantage, I think.

[D]

But they've actually been able to hit like so they were able to shoot past and go to the, to the back side of the moon. India.

[A]

So here's the two. Here are the two. Scroll up a little bit. Here are the two rockets that went up there. Tell me which one you think is Indian and which one's from China. Stupid Chandrayan and the chain.

[B]

Which one?

[A]

Sorry, One guess.

[B]

Only one?

[D]

I have no idea.

[A]

Wow. Sorry about that everybody. Hey, speaking of scary stuff, just. I want to hear about the rattlesnake you guys found.

[B]

Yeah, I know.

[D]

I sent you guys that picture and I was at my in laws. We were there and the kids were outside playing and we were there for like a birthday party I think. And all of a sudden they Come running. Hey, there's a, there's a Ralph. I'm like, no way. Like I thought it was maybe something rustled that they had uncovered and you know, I didn't really believe them. And then I went outside and there was like a really like good sized rattlesnake that was just underneath these two two by fours that had just wedged itself in there. And like of course Everett's the one that found it almost bit him.

[B]

Like, oh God. And I was like, you didn't have.

[D]

To tell me that part. But yeah, I was sweet. I was like, do I go get the shovel? Do I kill this thing? And like so my sister in law actually knows somebody that, that like actually collects snakes and, and read I guess distributes them, takes them to sanctuary, relocates them. So she, she's like, I'll give them a call. And so had them do that. But I was like, you can't have this just like chilling near the hot tub.

[A]

No, no.

[B]

Yeah, no, not, not a good idea where. Whose house was that?

[D]

It was at my in laws.

[B]

Oh, it's your in law's house. Yeah, it was a good sized rattler. So did someone come catch it and get it?

[D]

Yeah, so somebody came by later and grabbed it.

[B]

Were you there to watch him catch it or. No, no. Okay.

[D]

No, I left.

[A]

How long would it take you to die from a rattlesnake bite? I want to know.

[B]

It's actually less likely you would die from a.

[D]

And would you suck out the poison for me?

[B]

Yeah. If you get to a hospital it's very unlikely you would die. Especially we're in now, modern times. How fast you're still going to get.

[A]

It'S going to mess you up. You're still going to get.

[B]

Yeah. I mean you could have a bad reaction depending on the person, but a full grown rattlesnake would most likely not kill.

[A]

I'll work for a couple of days.

[C]

Days.

[D]

Oh, isn't it. So the, the younger snakes. Yeah, they just, they don't have as much of a.

[B]

No, the younger ones don't. They put all of their venom. Yeah, they were too much out. An adult will hit you with enough to tell you like basically get out of here. Where the young one will. It will put all its venom in you, my son. And that's more deadly, my son.

[A]

Yesterday, I think it was yesterday told me that it's called a blue ringed octopus. I think it's one of the most.

[D]

Oh yeah.

[A]

Poisonous animals out there. Yeah.

[B]

Blue ring octopus.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I want to see what that looks like.

[A]

How long does it take to die from a blue ringed octopus?

[C]

So fact check though on the venom. So the younger rattlesnakes are not as dangerous.

[A]

Oh, sorry, Adam. Yeah, I'm sorry.

[B]

Whoa, hold on. Before we just take your AI answer here. That's. It's a common. Okay, we got our Adam. Adult rattlesnakes are more dangerous because significantly larger volume venom. While young snakes are smaller amount of venom, they still can deliver a medically significant bite and requires immune treatment.

[D]

Anyway, blue ring sounds like it's another AI hallucination. Yeah, that's what it sounds like to me.

[A]

You gotta love getting fact checked right out the gates. Oh yeah. I don'.

[B]

I don't still know, bro. I'm not sold on any of this stuff.

[D]

I've told you what's happened recently with either man.

[B]

Well, these AI things depending on how. I mean, how did Doug just prompt that? Is this. Is this not true? Like that like you. If you prompted a certain.

[C]

Yeah, I know.

[B]

If you look at.

[D]

I heard Wikipedia is horrendous these days. Like it's way inaccurate.

[A]

Have you guys seen what Wikipedia said about a friend, Max Lugaver? No. No. Oh, I don't know if it's still there, but it was terrible. Is essentially calling him like a sham and a what conspiracy theorist about. Yeah.

[D]

Stuff.

[B]

This is. This is going to be interesting because we're coming in a time where this new generation is. Is being taught that this is the end all be all.

[A]

Look how crazy deadly the blue ring octopus is. It has enough venom to kill 26 adults within minutes.

[D]

What?

[C]

And they're the size of a golf ball?

[A]

Yep, that's the one that. Whoa.

[B]

They're that tiny.

[A]

That's a tiny little octopus the size of a golf.

[D]

In the depths of the like how deep do they. Because I don't want to just step on one of those little guys.

[A]

Yeah, well, I mean, what parts of the world. I'm learning so much from my son right now. He's bringing up. Yeah.

[D]

He decided jellyfish or bad too.

[A]

I don't know what he was reading.

[B]

Yeah, like, where did you find that?

[A]

It's so funny too, because I asked him like, where did you learn that?

[D]

We went down that rabble. I think I was. I was doing a YouTube search with. With Everett and we. We came across.

[B]

When you ask him, what does he say? So when I asked Mask where he like, he says funny things. Things he says like. Yeah, he says like my brain came up with it.

[A]

Does he. Yeah, my son says Oh, I just know.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. See, that's why they always have funny answers whenever I ask him, like, hey, where did you learn that? I don't know, my brain just came up with it like, no, dude, that did not happen.

[A]

What are you looking at?

[C]

Down to depths of 50 meters. But it does sound like some of them prefer shallower depths. Some see.

[A]

So I don't go in the water.

[D]

Beware, beware.

[A]

That's why I stand swimming.

[B]

Interesting. I never knew that was a thing. That's cool. That's really cool.

[C]

Yeah, it sounds like they are 20 meters or 66ft below at least. So unlikely you'll be down there safe.

[D]

I guess Mars is sounding better after all.

[A]

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[C]

All right, our first question is from Lee. Is it possible for someone who has not prioritized fitness and nutrition for a number of years to make changes so that the rest of their years can be lived as a strong and independent individual? How best for a 58 year old to do this?

[B]

Great question.

[D]

Hell yes. Yeah.

[A]

The beauty of doing this is it doesn't matter when you start. Your body will, if you apply it properly, it will progress. You will build strength and endurance and mobility and your health will improve. Your body always has an ability to adapt to exercise again, so long as it's applied appropriately. How best to start slowly. You start slowly. So if you're just getting into it, you know a good program of ours that would be good for you would.

[B]

Be like starter, starter or over 40. Yeah, I think over 40 would be great for this person.

[A]

Total beginner. Yeah, I would say starter just because it's probably appropriate for starter.

[B]

Right into over 40, right after that. 40 plus that program and that setup is perfect. You're right. If you're, if you're really deconditioned, you haven't done anything weightlifting, activity, stuff like that, then starters by the way, like.

[A]

58 year old who hasn't exercised or done anything like that. For a long time was a lot of the clients that I had, a lot of the clients I had hired me just like this.

[B]

I would say that was.

[A]

And we made phenomenal progress. But you got to start and train appropriately. You have to start slow. Whatever you're doing is probably more than you're doing now, which is probably enough to get your body to move in the right direction. Just think of it that that way. And you should feel more energy at the end of the workout than you did in the beginning. So if you do a workout and you're like, man, I am hurting or I'm exhausted or I can't walk for two days, you overdid. Regardless of what you did, you overdid it.

[B]

One of the exciting things about being in this position or place at this point is everything is not. And so you've got a long, long road ahead of newbie gains, which is a positive thing. It's that you get to do different. I mean, you could literally run, like we said, the map starter. Then, you know, maps 40 and then another and just see gains and gains. I mean, just after each program walk away going like, oh, my God, I feel so much better. I look so much better. You know, every. All. All the markers improving for quite some time. So it's a very exciting time.

[A]

Yeah. So strength training, this would look like probably a day or two a week. Walk a couple times a day. Aim for about 8,000 steps a day. And that's a great way to start. Ideally perfect. Like if I were meeting with you and talking with you, work with a coach, a trainer would be the best way to go. Second best. Again, map starter. Great program.

[C]

Next question is from We Griff 51. Can I make aesthetic progress at maintenance calories, or do I need to continuously cycle between bulks and cuts?

[A]

The. Technically speaking, it's a myth that you're going to eat or that anybody eats at maintenance.

[B]

It's impossible.

[A]

Yeah. So the idea of maintenance is I'm eating the amount of calories. Calories that I'm burning every day. Do you know how hard and impossible it would be to eat the exact amount of calories you burned every day?

[B]

No, it's impossible. You literally just have moments in the day. So really what maintenance is, is you're as close as you could be to half the time being in a surplus, half the time being. That's really what it is.

[D]

It averages out.

[A]

That's right. And so what this looks like, if you do this right, if you're eating maintenance calories, you're following a good, good strength training routine maintenance again being sometimes more, sometimes less because that's just how it works. What this will look like is slow continual progress where you're building muscle and burning fat throughout this entire period of time so you'll slowly move towards this kind of balanced result that you get. So not a bad place to be. Now the reason why our people are more aggressive with bulks and cuts is because their goals are a little bit more more specific. And if your maintenance quote unquote maintenance was really low calorie, I would have you eat more because we need more to build the muscle we're trying to build.

[B]

I would make the argument this is actually the ideal place to be. But psychologically it's difficult. That's the part is when someone decides they're going to go on a bulk. They hear bulk and they expect to see some movement on the scale upwards and weight gain and muscle hopeful gain gain. And so and if you're eating in a, in an extra surplus you're gonna get that right and you're just, you're, you're ideal. I'm hoping most of it's muscle, very little fat. But even though I get a little bit of fat, it's okay, I'm on the bulk. That's the goal. And then the reverse is true. When someone's on the cut, they're just gonna cut calories. Hopefully we lose very little muscle but that could also happen along the way. And you're in this kind of a big cut, 500 to a thousand calories. But the better place to be is kind of hovering around the maintenance where you're having this beautiful exchange and of sometimes you build a little bit of muscle, sometimes you burn a little bit of body fat sometimes and you and you. But why it's psychologically difficult is the scale doesn't tend to move very much and so people don't feel like they're changing or moving enough. And so it's difficult but it really is the sweet spot to be if because it'll be the, the easiest to balance eating too. Like you're not ever force feeding yourself. You're not ever restricting hella hard. You're kind of eating in this place where you feel satisfied and you never feel really really hungry and you never really feel overstuffed. But psychologically not seeing the scale or change fast tends to mess with people in their head.

[C]

Next question is from ERNIE MAYER. I'm 31 and have been lifting weights for years with few injuries. What strategies can I use now to prevent injuries as I continue lifting as I get older.

[A]

Well, number one is to place technique inform at the top of the list the priorities with your strength training. So don't sacrifice your technique with your lifting for anything else. And this can be, this sounds, everybody's like, yeah, that makes sense. It's actually hard to do, especially as you get stronger and you want to challenge yourself. You know, I was a trainer for years, I'm an expert, I would say, in fitness and yet I have some areas of, of chronic injury because I sacrificed my squat form by a tiny bit over years of trying to push the weight.

[D]

You stayed too long in that specific goal.

[A]

That's right. So if I were, if I had gone back and really, really prioritized technique above and beyond the weight I could lift, I wouldn't now have some of the issues that I, you know, now starting to develop like some hip pain and stuff like that. So that's number one. Number two is to have a very balanced approach to your strength training. What I mean by that is you want to make sure you do strength training that it focuses on your traditional stuff, your squat, your deadlift, your presses, but also things that strengthen you moving laterally. Yeah, things that strengthen you moving in rotation, things that move you through full ranges of motion. You want to challenge yourself with new exercises. You want to have a balanced approach. So technique and a balanced approach is like such. In fact, this will reduce your risk of injury.

[D]

Yeah, I think too, it's like know yourself, know yourself completely in terms of what you're drawn to in your style of training and where there may be some deficiencies, one, some things that you might tend to neglect sometimes types of movements and really build up non negotiable movement patterns that you incorporate. And for me it's, it's always external rotation of the shoulder and it's internal rotation for the hip. And I have to cover those because those get overlooked and I feel the effect of that. And it can lead in a, in a situation where that's going to lead to stress and pain. And so, you know, there's just certain things that you know, in my body specifically I tend to overlook. And so I have to just constantly address these things.

[B]

So some real general advice yet very specific is once a year run either map symmetry or maps performance, that takes care of it. And that's kind of the advice I've given to anybody that falls in this category or this speaks to especially three.

[A]

Months out of the year.

[B]

That's right. One quarter of the year you are running a program that is addressing unilateral multi plane. You're bulletproofing the joints. You're doing all the things that Justin's talking about like you and you. You. If you spend 1/4 of your year, every year running a program like that, it is going to take care of that stuff and you will be in a, in, in a great position and you' to build muscle and all the things like so whatever your main goal is. But that will help bulletproof that. I think that's some of the most generic yet good advice I can give to anybody that wants this next question.

[C]

Is from Michelle Mueller, 87. When Adam was the mobility guy, what did that look like without sacrificing strength? I have a lot of upper back, shoulder trap neck pain and I want to work on mobility and stability, but I don't have the time to dedicate to that. And strength training three times a week.

[B]

Yeah, I wasn't strength training three times a week. One to two times a week. One to two times a week, full body type of traditional lifting. Then all the rest was mobility. And I was trying to do it every day that I could. Now there's plenty of weeks where I couldn't get four or five days of mobility work in there, but it became all around mobile. Either actual like direct mobility work or mobility type challenges. So strength, trust me, producing strength training exercises that challenged my mobility. But literally the focus was all around that and I only had to do one day a week of, of like traditional lifting to maintain still really good muscle.

[D]

Well, also it was like yeah. Full range of motion was a big.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

Thing with your squat too.

[B]

That's what I mean. Like so all the movements I was doing was mobility focus. Right. So I didn't go into like let's say to your point, a squat session and run it like a map synabolic. I went, today I'm going to work on my focus. Yeah, I'm just going to work on depth. Don't care about the weight, don't even really care that much about the reps right now it's just like I'm gonna, I'm gonna get down, do 9090 work, then I'm gonna go back to the squat and really pause at the bottom, then get back down and do some ankle mobility and get back to like. So it was like literally all focused on getting better connection, better range of motion on the squat. The weight didn't matter to me like this like really. The sets and reps didn't even matter that much. It Was like, hey, I got an hour at the gym today. I'm gonna work on mobility. So every day looked like that, that, except for maybe one day a week, I would do like a traditional.

[D]

I think it's a better way to handle it is like you just got to shift the intention of your workouts. And so you have that in mind with, you know, achieving in range strength and, and strength and certain range of motions that you don't, you know, currently have and acquire. And how can you do that? Sometimes it's through mobility drills, but also it's adjusting those exercises. So you do emphasize those end ranges a little bit more.

[A]

Yeah, there's just, there's this terrible myth that I think a lot of people kind of fall into, by the way, with lots of different things, but especially with exercise where they can, they can have it all. Like, I want all of it, but that's just not how the body adapts. It doesn't work that way. So can I still maximize my strength training and muscle building while maximizing my mobility or my endurance or my whatever? No. It all comes. You have to trade. You can't just do. You can't get everything. It's like saying, I want to be a billionaire, but I also want to be the most present father and never miss a game and be there all the time. Pick one. You can't do both. It's just not going to happen. It's impossible.

[B]

At the same time, another myth is that you are going to lose all of this muscle you built just because you go focus on mobility. Though. Like, I'm going through, I'm trying to scroll back through my Instagram right now because I know I used to do some, some posts and I'll have Dylan share it with the team. But like, I'm, I'm doing single leg deadlifts with like 90 pound dumbbells, barefoot. Like, I was still strong, had good muscle. I just, I wasn't all about. Yeah, exactly, I did. So it's not like I, I lost a ton of muscle during that process.

[A]

You're not chasing it.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. I wasn't. That wasn't the goal, wasn't the focus. But, but still, doing exercises that stimulate the muscles will maintain what you've built. So I, I think there is this fear of that, oh, I'm gonna go all focus. Which I understand because I had the same fear. I was just like. But I just, I committed to it. I accepted, who cares if I lose the muscle muscle. But what I, when I look back and I go like, Damn. I was actually hella strong. I was still. I was still really strong doing a lot of cool stuff when I was just focused on mobility. So you won't just lose it all, but your intentions. You need to commit as if. Who cares if you did and you'll be fine.

[A]

All right, come find us on Instagram. You'll see us at mindpumpmedia.

[C]

Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically, improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB super [e-mail] the RGB Super Bundle includes Maps, Anabolic Maps, Performance and Maps Aesthetic nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs with detailed workout blueprints and open over 200 videos. The RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee and you can get it now. Plus other valuable free [e-mail] if you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review on itunes and by entering Introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is Mind Pumpkin.