2714: The Best Exercise Combos for Each Body Part

Summary

Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth

Episode 2714 — The Best Exercise Combos for Each Body Part
Hosts: Sal Di Stefano, Adam Schafer, Justin Andrews, Doug Egge
Date: October 25, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode centers around a practical, science-backed discussion of the best exercise combinations for each major muscle group — legs, back, chest, shoulders, arms, and more — with a strong emphasis on programming, variation, and functional training. The hosts break down how and why to pair exercises, adjust programming for goals like hypertrophy, strength, or function, and share coaching calls addressing real listener questions. The mood remains high-energy, playful, and direct, blending deep expertise with relatable anecdotes.

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Key Discussion Points

1. What Makes a Good Workout Program? (03:03)

• Sal: “It’s not how sore you get, not how much you sweat. The programming itself — exercise order, sets, reps — makes a huge difference.”
• They clarify that the focus is how to combine exercises for a single workout (not just their top two favorite moves per muscle group).
• Emphasis on the adaptability of combos based on individual goals, skills, and injuries.

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2. Exercise Combos by Body Part

Legs (03:39)

• Sal’s Go-To Combo:
  • Barbell Squats → Romanian Deadlifts → Hip Thrusts
  • If glute focus: Start with Hip Thrusts.
• Adam: Swap exercises occasionally (e.g., Bulgarians for squats, or hyperextensions/leg curls for RDLs) to “keep it novel and adapt to what your body needs.”
• Justin: Emphasizes lunges for their stability and functional benefits.
• Front squat as an underrated alternative; “Nobody front squats anymore, but it’s gold.” (06:08)

Back (08:20)

• Adam’s Combo: Deadlift → Lat Pulldown → Dumbbell Row (single-arm, over bench for anti-rotation)
• Sal: Prefers adding a chest-supported row after deadlifts for less lumbar fatigue.
• Justin: Cables for seated rows or more support, especially after deadlifts.
• “Don’t do heavy barbell row and deadlift in the same workout.” (09:59)

Chest (10:25)

• Sal: Incline Barbell Press → Flat Dumbbell Press → Incline Fly.
• Adam: Swaps in cables or pec deck for better constant tension (“squeeze on the chest”).
• Justin: Incline dumbbell fly for greater stretch; sometimes follows bench with dips for “that deep grind.”
• Sal: Highlights the value of loading the muscle in a stretched position for hypertrophy.
• “Loaded dips and barbell presses are king movements — pick the main lift, let others be the ‘bonus’.” (13:25)

Shoulders (13:49)

• Sal: Press (usually barbell) → Rear Lateral Raise → Side Lateral Raise.
  Alternate: Upright Row → Rear Lateral → Side Lateral.
• Adam: Seated heavy dumbbell press, cable reverse fly, upright row.
• Justin: Functional take: Barbell/Overhead Press, rear lateral, alternating rotational kettlebell press.
• They all stress the importance of rear delt work — “Rear delts make your shoulders look round; they’re too often neglected.” (15:33)
• Adam: “I treat laterals like the redheaded stepchild — heavy press and rear work touch the side delts already.”

Biceps (16:59)

• Common themes: Variety of grip and angles.
• Sal: Standing Dumbbell Curl (alternating, supinating) → Incline Curl (stretch) → Concentration or Spider Curl.
• Adam: Alternating dumbbell curls (seated), preacher curl, spider curl.
• Justin: Hammer curl, plus biceps-focused chin-ups (“Brutal — rarely done right, but so effective.”)
• Sal: “Nobody does supinating curls anymore — it’s literally the biceps’ function!” (18:03)

Triceps (18:54)

• Sal’s Blow-Up Combo: Close-Grip Bench Press → Overhead Triceps Extension → Triceps Pressdown.
• Adam: Loaded dips as a strong alternative; agrees with overhead + pressdown.
• Justin: Weighted dips, perhaps on rings, as a variation. “Overhead extension for the stretch, pressdowns to finish.”

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3. How to Rotate and Progress Combos (20:03)

• Adam: “Every 4 weeks, pull out a movement and swap with something new to challenge stability and different planes of motion.”
• Justin: Lateral and cossack squats, lateral lunges for legs; recommends adding functional or unilateral moves to address gaps, especially as you advance.
• Sal: For advanced lifters, “the hardest things that suck the most have the highest value.”

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4. Strength vs. Hypertrophy vs. Longevity (21:00)

• Hosts reflect on their changing training styles as they age — moving from maximal strength to more bodybuilding/hypertrophy or functional work to protect joints and avoid injury.
• “You get diminishing returns the stronger you get—risk starts to outweigh reward beyond a point.” (24:00)
• The importance of rotating phases for resilience, longevity, and motivation.

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5. Memorable Quotes and Moments

On Front Squats:

"Nobody does front squats anymore…but it’s gold." — Sal, 06:06

The Value of Hard Workouts:

"The things that are the hardest and suck the most, that’s where the gold is in programming." — Adam, 07:38

Program Variety:

“Doing two or three movements per muscle group in one workout? Pick the king exercise, then add two supporting ones.” — Adam, 13:25

On Rear Delts:

“Rear delts make your shoulder look round…Most people treat them like an afterthought.” — Adam, 15:30–16:00

On Biceps Work:

"Nobody does supinating dumbbell curls anymore…it’s part of biceps function!" — Sal, 18:03

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6. Live Coaching Calls (71:37 onwards)

Lorena — Strength Progression & Reps Confusion (71:37)

• Asks about adjusting weight as rep schemes change (12 to 15 reps).
• Sal: “When the rep range goes up, drop weight. Choose weight that allows you to hit the reps with good intensity.”
• On Upper vs. Lower Body Strength in Women: “Lower body gains will typically outpace upper body for women — hypertrophy and strength genetics differ.”
• Advice: Track strength over time, and consider joining the Muscle Mommy community for women (with live coaching, support).

Brian — Inconsistent Gym Performance (83:24)

• Tracks sleep, nutrition, and feels workouts usually match energy, but ~20% of sessions feel “off.”
• Sal: “Don’t worship the feeling of the workout…There’s always a bit of mystery, even with great prep.”
• Adam: Advises rotating in MAPS Symmetry or Performance programs yearly to avoid imbalances and stagnation: “Get some functional and unilateral work, especially as you age or play sports like golf.”

Marnie — Peri-Menopause & Body Fat Fears (90:52)

• In her 50s, lifelong athlete, struggling with body fat percentage (very lean, DEXA scan at 16%).
• Sal: “You need to gain body fat — even just a few percent will improve health, energy, and performance.”
• Importance of reversing diet culture, especially for women with athletic backgrounds and resilient genetics.
• Discussed the Mind Pump Muscle Mommy movement and coaching.

Derek — After TRT & Anabolic Programs (102:52)

• Reverse diet success, wants to cut fat without losing muscle post-TRT.
• Adam: Introduces "mini cut/mini bulk" cycling: 3 weeks at 2500 cal (cut), 1 week at maintenance (3200 cal) — repeat for sustainable fat loss.
• Advice to measure waistline for progress, avoid cheat weeks.
• Suggests moving to MAPS Symmetry next, then returning to Anabolic.

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Notable Tangents & Fun Moments

• The hosts riff on Megalodon teeth, orca attacks, and misunderstood words (“hypocrite” and “fetus”) — playful, mildly irreverent.
• Commentary on changes in commercial gyms — Planet Fitness now adding barbells, showing the impact of strength training’s popularity (43:08).
• “Dad moments”: Emotional stories about the impact of fatherhood, changing values, and seeing children succeed (57:37–66:00).
• Discussion of sleep strategies for those who fall asleep but wake up too early (48:20).

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Segment Timestamps

• Exercise Combos by Body Part: 03:39–19:54
• Programming & Phase Rotation: 20:03–21:00
• Strength/Hypertrophy/Longevity Reflection: 21:00–27:40
• Memorable Quotes & Methods: Throughout — see bullets above for direct citing
• Coaching Call: Lorena (Strength & Rep Scheme): 71:37–81:30
• Coaching Call: Brian (Inconsistent Performance): 83:24–89:20
• Coaching Call: Marnie (Body Fat & Perimenopause): 90:52–101:10
• Coaching Call: Derek (TRT, Reverse Diet, Fat Loss): 102:52–110:20

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Tone Summary

• Direct: Hosts are upfront with both praise and critique; quick to debunk myths.
• Caring: Especially in listener Q&As, with empathetic responses.
• Playful/Irreverent: Banter, fitness jokes, and segues into animals and odd factoids.
• Practical/Actionable: Advice always comes grounded in experience and science.

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Conclusion

This episode is a masterclass in intelligent programming for both casual and advanced trainees. The Mind Pump crew makes complex programming approachable, sharing both why and how to pair exercises for maximum gains and well-being. Listener Q&As reinforce that fitness journeys are personal — and that sometimes the “raw truth” is as much about psychology and support as sets and reps.

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Best Takeaway Quote:

“The things that are the hardest and suck the most — that’s where the gold is in programming. But don’t worship the feeling. Consistency and smart rotation get you the results.” — Adam, 07:38 & 85:09

Transcript

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[Sal DeStefano]

Mind Pump Mind Pump with your hosts.

[Adam Schaefer]

Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer and Justin Andrews.

[Sal DeStefano]

You just found the most downloaded fitness, health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump. In today's episode, callers called in and we got to coach them live on air. But this was after the intro. Today's intro is 68 minutes long. In the intro, we talk about fat loss and muscle gain. The best workouts for every body part, family life. It's a good time. By the way, if you want to be on an episode like this where we can help you on air, send us your question. Send it to live mindpumpmedia.com now. This episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Brain fm. These are sounds and music that have been proven to induce different states of mind. How do they prove it? Through brain imaging. In other words, you listen to meditation. Your brain's brain waves turn into those that reflect meditation. They also have sleep music that'll put you to sleep and keep you to sleep. Don't believe me? Try it out for 30 days for free. Go to Brain FM mindpump this episode is also brought to you by Crisp Power. These are protein pretzels, 26 to 28 grams of protein per small bag. So throw away your potato chips. Get your protein. They're delicious. Lots of different flavors. Go check them out. Go to crisp power.com use the code mindpump10 get 10% off. We also have a sale on Maps GLP1 this month. This is a workout program with diet advice, supplement advice, and lifestyle advice for people who are using Ozempic or Wegovy. Right? Semaglutide, Tirzepatide. If you're using a GLP1 and you want to maximize the fat loss, you want to keep your muscle, you don't want to lose your muscle, this is the program for you. It's half off. Go to maps glp1.com, use the code GLP50. Get the half off discount. All right, real quick.

[Justin Andrews]

If you love us like we love you, why not show up by rocking one of our shirts, hats, mugs, or training gear? [e-mail] I'm talking right now. Hit, pause, head on over to my pumpstore.com. that's it. Enjoy the rest of the show.

[Sal DeStefano]

The difference between a good workout program and a bad workout program is vast. One gives you incredible results. One gives you nothing. But what makes a good workout program a good program? Is it how sore you get? Is it how much you sweat? No, it's the programming itself. The exercises, the order, the sets, the reps, how it's programmed makes a huge difference. Here's what we're gonna do right now. We're gonna talk about the best exercise combos for each body part you wanna train. Your legs, your back, your chest, your shoulders, your arms. What do we think are the best exercises for those body parts, and in what order? How do we combine them for good workout programming?

[Justin Andrews]

Let's go left, right, cross, upper.

[Adam Schaefer]

Now, okay, I want to be clear because are we talking about in a single workout or.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay, we get into the whole programming thing this episode.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, also, why this matters, because another way this could have been said is, like, these are the top two exercises per muscle group. But it's not that. It's like in a workout.

[Sal DeStefano]

In a workout.

[Adam Schaefer]

Which makes a difference because you're not going to do something like a barbell back squat and a deadlift in that same workout.

[Sal DeStefano]

Right, Right.

[Adam Schaefer]

So I think that's a good point. Important to note because someone's gonna be like, what? That's not. That's not the best through legs. And say, well, no, you're doing one of the best exercises and then another one that goes really good.

[Sal DeStefano]

Totally, totally. All right, I'll start with legs, and I'll give you. Of course. Yeah, of course the exercises will change depending on the individual goals, prior injury, all that stuff. But I'll give you generally just a good exercise combo for a workout program for legs. Okay. And it can look like. It'll look like this. It'll be. Barbell squats will be the first exercise. So you're going to warm up, obviously, get into it. You're going to do your working sets of barbell squats, then you're going to do your Romanian deadlifts, and then you're going to do your hip thrusts. Now, I can change the order if the person wants to focus on glutes. If they want to focus on glutes and they have a tough time developing glutes, I'll do the hip thrust first, and then I'll go squats and Romanian deadlifts. But those three in combination, phenomenal combination. In one workout, I found not only.

[Adam Schaefer]

That, but you could use that as your base. And then just every once in a while, flip, take one out and switch with something else. For example, like, maybe I've been barbell back squatting consistently for a couple months. It's like, I'm gonna get rid of barbell back squats for a period, and I'm gonna go, bulgarians, great point. So it's like. And. But still keep the other two the same. Or then I'm gonna go, I'm gonna keep my barbell back squat. But, you know, maybe instead of, like, Romanian deadlifts, I do something like, oh, what's our hyperextension?

[Sal DeStefano]

Or leg curls.

[Adam Schaefer]

Or leg curls or something like that. And so just swap out the barbell.

[Justin Andrews]

Backs for front squat if I want to more.

[Sal DeStefano]

You know, I'm so glad you said that, Justin. I would love your. Because I just gave it kind of a general hypertrophy muscle.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, I don't disagree with that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay.

[Adam Schaefer]

He would probably put something functional. Yeah, like, a lot. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

I prefer lunges mainly for the functional aspect of them, too. Plus, it's. It's addressing a lot of instability that I think that people need to. To really account for, which leads to. To further, like, dysfunction.

[Sal DeStefano]

By the way, with this combo, a front squat would be just fine. It is more anterior, meaning it is more quad than a back squat.

[Adam Schaefer]

But because you have the Romanian dressing the backside, you are.

[Sal DeStefano]

And so you could actually, you know, do a cycle of back squats. The reason why I say that is nobody does front squats anymore. And it's such a good exercise. Yeah, I almost never.

[Justin Andrews]

I see everybody always bring it up because I always forget, even myself.

[Sal DeStefano]

Nobody. I see everybody back squatting now, which is great. It wasn't like that not that long ago. So that's phenomenal.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's actually crazy when I. I still.

[Sal DeStefano]

See, no front squats, though. Nobody front squats.

[Justin Andrews]

They're hard and it's.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's hard.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's different and it keeps you upright and it really does have a different.

[Adam Schaefer]

You know what's so funny about that? Isn't this a trip when you. I would say I probably front squatted or goblets. Caught it with more clients than I did barbell.

[Sal DeStefano]

Back squat, of course.

[Adam Schaefer]

So it's a bit ironic, right, that we say that as part of my.

[Justin Andrews]

My clients had them go through that because it's.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's easier, it's a better position. They are hard, but it helps keep some more upright. It's. Back squatting requires a little bit more. A lot more core involvement.

[Adam Schaefer]

So you're kind of targeting that thoracic.

[Sal DeStefano]

Mobility, shoulder mobility, all that stuff. Yeah, no, front squat is actually the first type of squat. And I would do with a broomstick.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

So interesting that, you know, okay. We made huge headway in seeing people barbell back sweating in the gym, which is awesome. And I would never want to shame somebody or tell somebody not to do that, which is amazing. But it's a bit ironic when you think about. When we. When you think about the programming that we did for clients or during our training career, I would say I did way more front squats. And you never see that. So there is still an opportunity there for the listener and people is like to get really good at that movement. And to your guys's point, it's like. It's hard. It sucks.

[Sal DeStefano]

But those.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's. I. I mean, that's where the gold is. Right. Is. Is. Is the things that are the hardest and suck the most typically is where the gold lies in program. Especially when you've been training for a while. Different story. When you're brand new, it's like you don't need to. You don't have to do the hardest thing in the gym.

[Sal DeStefano]

You probably don't. It's not even appropriate for you.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oftentimes.

[Adam Schaefer]

And so, you know, you can get a ton of results from a lot of exercises that are not as good, which is great. You may as well take advantage of that. But for the lifter who's been lifting for a couple years, if you haven't ran through a cycle of. I'm going to get really good at front squats. Huge opportunity there to see tremendous gains in your physique and strength, stability, your core, all things totally.

[Sal DeStefano]

All right, let's get to back. So one of my favorite back workouts.

[Adam Schaefer]

I'm going To put deadlift in there for back.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's going to be deadlift then to either pull ups or pull downs, depending on your strength level. So deadlift pull up, pull downs and then some kind of a machine row or a chest support supported row where you could get them in the back. That combination is phenomenal.

[Adam Schaefer]

So I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go deadlift. I'm gonna go lap pull down and I'm gonna do dumbbell row.

[Sal DeStefano]

There you go.

[Adam Schaefer]

I get a little bit of functional stuff with the rotation and their anti rotation in the dumbbell row. I love after a heavy deadlift like.

[Sal DeStefano]

One arm over a bench.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, yeah. So then I, and I loved after a heavy deadlift, I don't want to do pull ups.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

I'm just not gonna be able to get very many. That's what I'm saying. And so I like after a really heavy compound deadlift like that to just focus on the lats by doing a lap pull down. So I love deadlift, lap pull down. Dumbbell row.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. So I said chest supported row. Very similar. Great combination. Great pump. You get the whole back. Exceptional workout.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. Deadlift obviously. For sure. I like the, the chest supported row at the end too. So yeah, I, I would. And I mean I do like cables like seated rows.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's great.

[Justin Andrews]

And that's just one of those that because of the demands of like a deadlift.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's why so much.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, I mean deadlift is such a huge movement and garners so much effort that the, the following exercise or two that you do for back is.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, that's why I said chest supported. I'm glad you said that, Justin, because someone may be wondering why chest supported or why hand on the bench, dumbbell rows. You just did deadlifts and deadlifts really work the posterior chain.

[Adam Schaefer]

You wouldn't do barbell row in the same day you do the deadlift.

[Sal DeStefano]

Exactly.

[Adam Schaefer]

If you did too much on the lumber. So like remember, go back to what I just said in the last series is this is great. That's a great foundational. Three movements and then just pulling one out here and there. Well, if you were to pull out the deadlift, that now gives you the opportunity to put in a barbell row inside, inside there as the, as the compound lift. And that's what I would do.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

So yeah, I guess I forgot lat pull downs. I guess I'd probably agree with that because it's a little less demanding.

[Sal DeStefano]

Awesome. All chest. Here's a great combination. I Love a barbell incline press, a flat bench dumbbell press, and then an incline fly. I love that combination. I think it hits the chest fully. I like to focus on the upper chest, aesthetically speaking, but also from a functional perspective. I think it's great. Now you can swap out the dumbbells for barbells on either exercise. But I do like the. The flat bench dumbbell chest press for the full range of motion.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, I'm changing the dumbbell fly for. For a pec decker cable fly O all the fully contracted position. You are you about three movements there where I'm not getting that. And I just think that end range motion squeeze on the chest is for. I'm also coming from a development.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yep.

[Adam Schaefer]

Aesthetic.

[Sal DeStefano]

No, I get it.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's not the most functional necessarily.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, I like. Yeah, I like dumbbell flies with that. I would even probably do dumbbell flies on an incline bench as well, just because functionally, it just feels like I can open my chest.

[Sal DeStefano]

You know the value of a dumbbell fly? Because I hear what you're saying. Right. So. So here's what Adam's saying. And this is true. When you're pulling with the machine or cables, the weight is the same all the way through. So there is no change in the resistance. Now when you're using dumbbells. Well, now dumbbells are up here towards the top. There's really no resistance. On my pecs, the resistance only happens as I bring my arms out. Now, that being said, loading a pec or a muscle in stretch position produces a lot of hypertrophy, functionally speaking speaking, which is kind of funny. There's probably advantages to the cables because I'm developing all the way through.

[Adam Schaefer]

Right, right.

[Sal DeStefano]

From a hypertrophy perspective, I've actually found dumbbells that might be a little bit better because of the stretch. But this is my own observation.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, functionally, the instability of the two also has. Also with shoulder stability and stuff like that.

[Sal DeStefano]

But are we, like. Are we, like, splitting hairs here? Yeah, yeah.

[Doug]

I mean, I.

[Justin Andrews]

Sometimes I follow up like a bench press with like a chest focus dip mainly just too so I can get that deep grinding.

[Sal DeStefano]

You can totally strength that way. Yes.

[Adam Schaefer]

I wonder if I would. That's an interesting thought, because I would probably start with that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Really?

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, I think I would start with the four bench.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, I like the. I like the dips after the incline.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, after incline.

[Sal DeStefano]

I love that stretch you get at the bottom. At the. At the bottom.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. I'm roasted after that. Like, if I do loaded Dips.

[Sal DeStefano]

I, I. Strong enough.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. I mean load. So barbell, an incline, barbell press and loaded dips to me are in like very equal categories. And so I think of it the same for the upper, for the, like we talked about deadlifting and squatting for the upper body. I, I rank it at that high. So it's like it for doing them the same workout. Yeah, doing the same workout. It's not, not possible. Absolutely could do it. Absolutely have done it. But it, it can, it has that much value. It can carry the top exercise of the, of the work. And that's kind of how you look or at least how I look at it when I look at. I'm doing two or three movements for a single muscle group. Because that's what we're talking about right now. We're not talking about like a full body routine right now. We're talking about doing two or three movements in the same workout. If I'm doing that, it's like I'm looking. I'm always thinking of, like, what's the.

[Justin Andrews]

It could be pre tax.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. What's the king movement that I want to focus on? And that's going to be. And I would consider the loaded dip, the barbell bench press, the barbell dumbbell press, all your presses. Barbell or dumbbell. Or a, or probably a weighted dip in the category of king of movements there. And so that's the one. And then the other two are.

[Sal DeStefano]

I totally agree.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. Sort of how I would look.

[Sal DeStefano]

All right, let's get to shoulders. I have two absolute favorite shoulder workouts. There's two of them and they look just like this. So we have either an overhead press. Typically it's a barbell. Then go to rear lateral, then go to side lateral. That's my three exercise combo there. Or an upright row to rear lateral to side lateral. That's my other three. Three exercise combo. Those are my two favorites. And I've used them for myself. I've used them for clients, for hypertrophy, for making big round shoulders. They're just, it's amazing.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, this will be where we're all kind of very different, I bet, because Justin's going to go very rotational involved. I'm going to sit, I'm going to sit my ass down and I'm going to be, I'm going to do, I'm going to do heavy dumbbell presses to start off with. I'm definitely going to do the, like a cable reverse fly for me is just one of my favorites for the, for the rear Delts and then maybe like an upright row. Those are like the.

[Sal DeStefano]

So instead of lateral upright row.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, yeah. So I'm going to go up. I'm going to go upright row. I'm going to go seated dumbbell press, and I'm going to go my. My cable bent when I bend over and I pull through that full range on the rear delt. Just. That's, like, one of my favorite workouts.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. I definitely do, like, obviously a barbell press first. Like overhead press.

[Adam Schaefer]

Standing. Also standing. Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

And.

[Justin Andrews]

And then probably do more of a rear lateral. And then lastly. Yeah, I'll probably do like a. Either like a one arm or like an alternating rotational kettlebell press.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Shoulder.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's great. You know, it looks so different, right? You have this very functional perspective with shoulders with Adam and I. There's a little bit of a. Kind of a commonality which looks like. Press rear side. Yeah, Press rear side. Now, why. Why rear before the side? Why rear so soon in the workout?

[Adam Schaefer]

It's technically focused.

[Sal DeStefano]

It makes the bigger.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's a bigger part of the shoulder. It does. Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

You develop the rear delt. Your shoulder looks round.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Everybody thinks it's the side delt. It's the rear delt.

[Adam Schaefer]

I. In fact, I will sometimes start with that.

[Justin Andrews]

It's important, too.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

To really keep, you know, tracking properly.

[Adam Schaefer]

And I think it's. I. To me, that's one of my favorite things to talk about with the shoulders, because I think it's neglected and overlooked for most people. I think it's an afterthought. I think a lot of people treat rear delts like lateral raises.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yes.

[Adam Schaefer]

You know, it's just like, can you throw in the lateral raises? Whatever light just touch them. It's like no man rear delts you can develop. And so sometimes they will lead my workout.

[Sal DeStefano]

It makes your shoulders look crazy.

[Brian]

Oh.

[Adam Schaefer]

And it. And it just. It brings the shoulders all together. I tend to treat the laterals as kind of like the. The redheaded stepchild. It's the last because if you do a really good press that's heavy loaded, so that. And you got a really good rear delt movement in there. Yeah. You're getting. Your laterals are getting touched in there. Or you do like an upright row, which kind of get. Encompasses both. Like, you. You get a lot of that. And so. Which is different from when I started as a kid. As a kid, laterals was like, I did a lot of lateral. Lateral raises. I had this attitude of, well, my. When I bench and stuff, I get a Lot of anterior shoulder stuff anyways. And when I row with back stuff, I'm getting reared anyway.

[Sal DeStefano]

So it's just the row.

[Adam Schaefer]

So it's just when I shoulders used to look, that's when I. When I got the comment of weak shoulders.

[Sal DeStefano]

So don't.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, so don't do that, kids. Don't just.

[Sal DeStefano]

By the way, side note, shaming people has benefits. Adam's shoulders got amazing after he got shamed. Yeah, we need to start bullying each other sometimes.

[Justin Andrews]

It's motivation.

[Sal DeStefano]

All right, let's get to biceps. So I have a couple combination that I really love for biceps. Standing, dumbbell curls, alternating supinating. I like the supinating action of that. Then I like an incline curl where I'm laying back and get a stretch on my bicep and then finish with the concentration. Or a spider curl to get the squeeze at the top. The other option I have is a barbell curl, hammer curl, preacher curl, which is the other one. And that one, to me, made my arms feel the strong. I was going, yeah. Oh, really? Yeah, yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Hammer curl. And then like, what's the one called?

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, I love that. Yeah, I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm starting with supinated, alternating dumbbell curls, seated because I'm lazy. And then I'm going over to preacher curls, and then maybe like spider curls. Those three together.

[Sal DeStefano]

I love that. All different elbow position. You got the supination in there, by the way. It's another by. It's funny, we're all talking this. How often do you guys see anyone doing supinating dumbbell curls? They're not that common anymore.

[Adam Schaefer]

Not anymore. It's kind of weird that you don't. Because I guess when I was. When I was doing arms all the time back in the days, I felt like that was a very staple because.

[Sal DeStefano]

That'S what bodybuilders did back then.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

But now I don't see anybody doing any. Anything supinating. That's part of the action of the biceps, everybody. Like the. The turning of the hand. If the bicep is what does that? So that's part of the actual biceps. So involving a supinating exercise, I've also.

[Adam Schaefer]

Been such a. I've always been a fan. Unless I'm pressed for time, I like to alternate because the little bit of lag of time between I can load more and so I can curl more.

[Justin Andrews]

I also like bicep focused chin ups.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, God.

[Justin Andrews]

Brutalist. So that would be like, yeah, you're taxing one. Oh, yeah, that's brutal.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's a great one.

[Sal DeStefano]

Leaning forward, shoulders hunched, squeeze biceps.

[Adam Schaefer]

That'll make your arms underrated for sure. Not done. Rarely ever see somebody do a movement like that. Always I'm excited. If I see someone, I'm like, oh, my God. Okay, this dude, this dude knows what he's doing. Like, you never see a movement like that. Everybody thinks that's a back exercise, but when done properly, it's a bicep exercise. Absolutely. Could be a bicep.

[Sal DeStefano]

All right, triceps. I have a three exercise combo that will blow up anybody's triceps.

[Adam Schaefer]

It just does.

[Sal DeStefano]

All right, close grip, bench press, overhead tricep extension, either with dumbbell or a K or easy curl bar. So you get in the stretch, tricep press, down with the squeeze. That combination right there will light up.

[Adam Schaefer]

No qualms for me. Yeah, yeah, that's definitely the close grip. Bench press was life changing for me when that was introduced to me. Like, I just, I never seen my, my arms blow up like that before. And I felt like I did a lot of the other stuff before that. And so that was. Dips would be the, the easy switch out there.

[Justin Andrews]

Weighted dips. If I'm going to go like, real taxi.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. Or on the rings, either one of those, can I. I go. I could go back and forth as the, as the king exercise for the, for the tricep. And then I agree, like an. Whether you do cable dumbbell, an overhead extension in that stretch. Stretch position, and then to kind of finish it off like a tricep push down or any variant of that is. Yeah, great, great exercise combo.

[Justin Andrews]

There you go.

[Sal DeStefano]

So everybody's got just the major body parts that you could train. Some good exercise combos.

[Adam Schaefer]

Try them out and you could really run. I said just every four weeks or so.

[Sal DeStefano]

Pull.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, pull one movement out and alternate with something. And you know, if you were, if you're being really good, you're. You're thinking like, Justin, you know, at least every other time and one of us every time. In other words, like, I'm one day. Or if I'm always back barbell, back squatting, I'm gonna go, okay. I'm not doing anything that addresses any rotation or, or stability. So I'm going to do something that's unilateral or moving.

[Justin Andrews]

If you're going to think laterally too, with legs especially, do like caustic squat or lateral lunge, throw that in there to replace.

[Adam Schaefer]

So. Yeah. Well, rotate one of those out and give yourself a movement that challenges stability or a different plane of motion to really stay balanced functionally. Because I think the mistake like that we. You could do in what I did for sure as a younger kid, lifting is so bodybuilder focused that that's all. And because you're going to get great, and even if you are aesthetically driven, you're still going to get the aesthetics from those movements. And then because of the novelty of it, and you're also addressing the stability in different planes, and that'll keep you going longer.

[Sal DeStefano]

Speaking of which, I've had to switch my workout focus to more kind hypertrophy bodybuilding again, because I was going heavier for a little while. I was having fun with that. I started deadlifting again. But then my joints start to talk to me and it just. It happens sooner now, you guys. It now happens sooner in my training where I have to kind of back out. And I can do it for about three weeks until I start to feel my elbows, my wrist a little bit, my knee or my hip. So now for the past, you know, few workouts, I wish.

[Adam Schaefer]

I wish it was just chronic pain that kept me from that. What it is for. I get injured. I've been getting so. I got injured so much in the last couple years that I've just. I've totally bailed on really, really going super heavy on it.

[Sal DeStefano]

Maybe just be consistent for a while with just straight body.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. And that's just. It is. I. I haven't. I haven't. What hap. What has happened is ramping up too fast to that really totally heavy stuff. And then injuries happen. So it's like, I. Now I've just told myself, like, there's no reason for me to be doing that. It's all ego for me to do that. It's like, so. Which is why I don't even like lifting when there's anybody in here, because that's when I have a tendency.

[Justin Andrews]

I was talking to Adam the other day, like, it was just laughing because it did the lamest workout I've done in a long time.

[Adam Schaefer]

Hip thrust, right? Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

I was like, sal be so.

[Adam Schaefer]

I wish I had a video on.

[Justin Andrews]

Hip thrust all the time. And I was like, you know what? I. Because of. I've just been dealing with this chronic pain, like occasionally, and I'll wake up. And I'm like, I gotta really just focus on this. And also to include other things too, to address this instability. So bringing back Bulgarian split squats, doing a lot more like caustic squats and kind of going through Like a lot of these, like, you know what? Not, not big gross motor movement type exercises. But yeah, it was just funny doing lateral bandwagon. Lateral bandwagon? Yeah, and all that stuff. Trying to build it back, dude. Jump roping and like getting, you know, more acceleration training back. It Bose is all these keys.

[Sal DeStefano]

You're also a dude that's jump roping. You're not like 160 pound guy, bro.

[Justin Andrews]

You're a moose.

[Adam Schaefer]

Nothing. Petite bow. It's all flopping.

[Sal DeStefano]

You know. Hey, hey, you know what it is? Part of it is because people are like, oh, you guys are fitness guys. How can this happen? Well, part of it is that we have all this built up muscle memory and strength that when we go back to training heavy, the risk versus reward ratio gets thrown off very quickly. So I start. I haven't deadly. I haven't deadlifted in a long time. Months because I'd torn my hamstring. It was my first major injury actually in my entire life. And so I was like, I'm just gonna take it easy, actually, I'm gonna skip this exercise. Didn't deadlift. Didn't deadlift. Started easing my way back into it. And I'm getting filmed for my series and part of me was like, I'm not going to deadlift on my series because this is an exercise I'll get carried away with anyway, especially if I'm on camera. At least that's what I thought. And as we're going, I'm like, you know what? I'm going to start deadlifting. And actually what happened was the camera actually kept me in check because.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, that's why I told you guys about my series.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

When my, when I was, when I was doing my series, I felt like it was a really good accountability for me to stick to what I said I was going to do and know what's best versus like what my ego would want to create.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, I thought it would do the opposite. I thought because I'm on camera, I'm going to want to push the weight. But the reality was getting hurt on camera was a way bigger fear. I'm not going to get hurt on camera.

[Adam Schaefer]

So I watched Adam do that enough times.

[Sal DeStefano]

So, you know, we did first.

[Adam Schaefer]

Like three times.

[Sal DeStefano]

Dude. Most viewed videos. No. So we were pulling and I'm like, you know what? I went, I don't remember what I did. I went up to. Actually I did three plates and then I went up to four and then I went to four and I like really EAS my way up in the way. And even this week I took off from. I'm going to take deadlifting off completely. So. But, but again when you, when you start to get really strong, the, the risk versus reward ratio starts to get thrown off and it doesn't make a lot of sense to continue to push strength past a certain point. Like I'm not going to get a lot of benefit from going up to a 600 pound deadlift.

[Justin Andrews]

I'm trying to fill in all the gaps.

[Adam Schaefer]

I'm not even close. I'm not even close to that. Maybe would work up to three plates. I'm not even like, not even messing with anything beyond that because that's to me that's when any sort of injuries happen is beyond that, anything below that. And that's so you know, we, we forget like it's still good. That's such a good load to like for if we're talking longevity, just overall strength. Yeah. I am not impressing anybody.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

With those numbers. But let's be honest, like that is. I'm not. You don't need any more horsepower than that and anything you're ever gonna do. And I am.

[Sal DeStefano]

I gotta say though, bro, that's like. I love bodybuilding workouts. I love having a good pumpkin pump. Love it. But I love being strong. I love lifting really heavy more. It's just of course I could care less about the pump when that happens.

[Justin Andrews]

I mean that's always been my driver.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, dude. Like if I'm lifting heavy and I'm just like my got chalk on my hands and I'm just seeing what I'm.

[Justin Andrews]

Moving and it's crushing me.

[Sal DeStefano]

I just. Yeah. And I just feel. I just feel good.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean I get it. You guys were the ones that really kind of pushed me into that direction and it was very addicting. It was super addicting. But I, I really have to blame you guys for all the injuries. I didn't have no injuries before that, dude. Nothing.

[Sal DeStefano]

You know what I'm saying?

[Adam Schaefer]

They never had. But honestly it's, it's. You were injuries free forever. Injury free dude injury. Other than like a real.

[Justin Andrews]

I blame you for my tumors.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Seriously though. And it's. Hey, it says a lot about Dexter Jackson is one who's famous for being just like.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yes.

[Adam Schaefer]

For and. And you know, chasing the pump, not lifting PR heavy like that. You can build a hello physique through just good intensity volume training. And it does not.

[Sal DeStefano]

You push anything to. To you know, to a point and you keep pushing it. You're. You're definitely sacrificing longevity. Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

I think what also. What what probably, I mean, it, there's nothing like, I mean, there is this adrenaline rush you get when you pick something up really heavy that somebody else can't lift. You know, there's something about that feels good on the ego. You also. I think what also was addicting for me when I went that direction was the gains did come on faster than probably any time anything I'd ever seen. So that's also probably really addicting is like, like when you're really pushing strength, you feel solid. It does, yeah. You do feel like, I mean, it's a very loud signal that the body's going, we need way more muscle than we have.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

And you tend to. Versus I, I really believe this, and it'd be interesting if there's studies to support this theory is that, I mean, volume training will definitely like tell the body it needs muscle, but it doesn't seem to be as loud of a signal as the you're going to lift something grinding, super heavy. That almost seems like it's this super loud signal. It's like, oh, we need a lot more.

[Sal DeStefano]

And the other part of it too is, is for the aver. The first few years of training, that's the most important thing you do is you get stronger.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's just after that, once you get to a certain level of strength, then it. You get diminishing returns. You know, to go from I can only pick up £100 off the floor to picking up £250 exceptional. To go from 250 to 300. Now the results start to wane a little bit. And as the higher the weights go, the more diminishing the results happen from it and the higher the risk of injury. Injury, because you're off by a half a percent of your technique with a. With, you know, £500 on your back. Like that could. That could cause severe injury, you know.

[Justin Andrews]

Because you guys kind of like have two directions that you'll kind of navigate with that. It'll be like heavier. That'll go back to like bodybuilding and squeeze.

[Sal DeStefano]

And you only have one direction. No.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, I realized I have two. But like it's.

[Sal DeStefano]

What are they?

[Justin Andrews]

So the other one is smashing things. So it's like.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's the same direction, Justin.

[Justin Andrews]

Heavy crushing weight or smashing, dude. Like punching something really hard, kicking something really hard, jumping really high.

[Adam Schaefer]

One's crushing your spine. The other one's crushing a tire, bro. Both of it's crushing.

[Sal DeStefano]

I have two speeds, guys. Hard and hard, harder. So what are you doing? Are you hitting a bag?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Start.

[Justin Andrews]

Start the punch and, and get some Muay Thai back. But like, I think it's. I think really it's just like the physical contact portion of it because I've. Dude, I don't think you guys really. How long I would drill, like just constantly like hitting and, and, and working on my tackling technique and, and working on just like smashing my entire body into things. So it's like you become like that just gets ingrained in you. Like that's just like your operating system.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's so funny because that's your personality, how you text.

[Adam Schaefer]

We were talking about this yesterday. It's all making sense.

[Sal DeStefano]

We talked about Justin having sex.

[Adam Schaefer]

Surprisingly gentle and hard when I want to be.

[Sal DeStefano]

Sorry, Doug. Sorry, Doug.

[Justin Andrews]

You guys brought it up.

[Sal DeStefano]

How do you do anything?

[Justin Andrews]

I get no complaints.

[Sal DeStefano]

You know what I would love to do? I've never. Have you guys ever gotten a bone density test?

[Adam Schaefer]

Does it come on the DEXA scans? Is it not on there?

[Sal DeStefano]

I don't think so.

[Justin Andrews]

You've got. That's so random. What made you think.

[Sal DeStefano]

Because here's why.

[Adam Schaefer]

Because you think you osteoporosis. You feel a little wavy. I think you're all right, dog.

[Sal DeStefano]

No, because. Who was it? Somebody. One of our friends in the fitness space talked about how their bone density came. Oh, no, it was Dennis. Dennis Roberts. Yeah, our buddy, the jiu jitsu guy. He got a bone density test and he said that it came back and it was like his bones are twice as strong as the average humans. I believe. It got me curious. Yeah. Because we. I've been strength trained since I was 14.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, but he's also taking interesting. Taking hits, bro.

[Sal DeStefano]

Nothing builds bone like.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, yeah, yeah. But he's doing both though. Don't you think that's gonna.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, of course.

[Adam Schaefer]

All that contact.

[Sal DeStefano]

And he's also genetically a monster. He's a genetic freak. I'm not saying I want to compare them. I just am curious to see where my bone density is.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, it would be interesting. It would be interesting to see how you would. How you would compare to somebody like that who's not only strength training but also taking. Taking.

[Sal DeStefano]

I just want to see how I am. Like, where's my bone density? I'd be fascinating to see like in compared to the average person.

[Adam Schaefer]

So what I always felt like, do we have any studies to compare? You know, because I mean, old school techniques is like, you know, kicking a tree or hard things like that to Build up that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

You know, how. How much of that compared to somebody who just squats really heavy, would you say?

[Sal DeStefano]

So the difference is this. When you look at. When they do. When they do scans of, like, old karate. So karate is a good example, because classics. Yeah. Classic Japanese karate, they. They condition the hands, and they would hit boards, and you'd see these old guys. Nobody really does this anymore. Maybe there are people that. You're not gonna find a karate school like this in most cities, but the old school ones, you'd see these. These instructors, and their knuckles would be, like, distorted and huge. And essentially, what you're doing by hitting things is you're causing micro fractures. So if you look at a bone under a microscope, it's kind of like a honeycomb shape on the inside with little pockets of air. And what happens is those little honeycombs, the bone in between starts to fracture, and the little pockets of air fill in, and the bone gets more and more dense.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

And so this is what you'll see in a scan of, like, a tie fighter. Shins or femur or.

[Justin Andrews]

It's almost like, they say, like, deadening the nerves, which. But you just don't really feel that impact as much.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

So. But strength training strengthens bones as well in a different way. I would just be fascinated to see. That would be. Yeah, because. I don't know. I don't swim very well. That's what my excuse is. I have dense bones.

[Justin Andrews]

I'm gonna use that excuse. Yeah. I'm a terrible swimmer. I just feel like my body's not, like, made for that.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's not. I don't feel buoyant. Adam.

[Justin Andrews]

Adam's like a boat dude.

[Sal DeStefano]

Hollow bones, speedboat.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's all that body fat.

[Sal DeStefano]

No, it's. But I would be curious. I would be very curious. Anyway. Anyway. Hey, I. I read something the other day. Sometimes I like to see what, like, the root definition of a word is, because I think it's very telling of what that word means, you know, necessarily, because I think.

[Adam Schaefer]

Give an example.

[Sal DeStefano]

So I'll give you an example. So. So I was reading the Bible, and in there, Jesus will refer to, like, the Pharisees, you hypocrites. He uses that word quite a bit. Hypocrites. That word came from the Greek word. And I wrote down. And it's. I'm gonna. I'm gonna read what that word is and what the definition is. The word is Hippocrates, which means an actor or a stage player. So hypocrites.

[Adam Schaefer]

Pretending to be Something you're not.

[Sal DeStefano]

You're an actor.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. Pretending to be something you're not.

[Sal DeStefano]

So whenever actors try to tell you what to think, just know who you're listening to. These are all so.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Interesting.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, that is interesting. But I mean, it's. I think it. That's how we would call. I mean, that's really what you're saying about somebody who is a hypocrite.

[Sal DeStefano]

Right. If they pretend to be.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, yeah. They pretend to be one thing and they're really something else. Would be. Would be how you would define that.

[Sal DeStefano]

So.

[Adam Schaefer]

Because I'm always interested in when we. The. The root of something is different than how people tend to. Like, it's like it's morphed over time. Like it would. The origin was something like that, but it's like, oh, that's interesting. We really don't use it appropriately. People tend to use it this way. But it really means some of this. And I have an example, because I can't remember.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, did you know. Do you guys know that the word. You know how people refer to a baby in utero as a fetus? Fetus literally in Latin means baby. So it just means baby. It's the same definition.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, interesting. See, that's a great example. Yeah. There's an example of something that we.

[Justin Andrews]

Turned it into just like organism.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. We define it like it's a clump of cell. People use it like it's a clump of cells where the origin of the.

[Sal DeStefano]

Word fetus literally means baby. Oh, wow. Yeah. It's just. We've used it in a way that kind of takes it away from that word or whatever.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. I find that more interesting. I find when there is a word that it's. It's very clear what the origin was, and over time, we've bastardized it or changed it or we use it for something else, and then we all just.

[Sal DeStefano]

You know what I heard Yesterday? We had Dr. Benson. We interviewed him. Yeah. Do you know what he said is politically incorrect to say now? Homeless.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, yeah, that's.

[Sal DeStefano]

You can't say someone.

[Adam Schaefer]

You say bomb again. Huh? We say bomb again.

[Justin Andrews]

You say hobo.

[Adam Schaefer]

No, I say bomb. It's bum. Corrects me.

[Sal DeStefano]

You can't say bum. No, because he was. When you're doing. When, you know, he works in the er. Worked emergency. And if you were. If you can't say, oh, this person's a home.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. Like, he had to be real careful.

[Adam Schaefer]

Without home.

[Sal DeStefano]

No, I think. What. What did. What did you say? Dylan. Dylan came up with Soften that.

[Doug]

That unhoused and houseless.

[Adam Schaefer]

Unhoused.

[Justin Andrews]

Why difference.

[Sal DeStefano]

What's the why? Why do we do this? Homeless and unhoused.

[Adam Schaefer]

We are so, so concerned about everybody's feelings.

[Sal DeStefano]

No, we creating situations that don't. That don't exist. I don't think a homeless person. I don't think if you're a.

[Justin Andrews]

It's certain people projecting weird ideas.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, I'm unhoused. Like nobody cares. This is. These are people who have homes who have nothing better to do but try to make people feel bad for using a word. That's normal. It's just crazy weird.

[Adam Schaefer]

Is there. There's probably. There had have been something that happened pivotal that caused that to happen.

[Lorena]

Right.

[Adam Schaefer]

It doesn't just happen overnight. So something happened. Right.

[Sal DeStefano]

I almost feel like with a political.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, yes, always.

[Justin Andrews]

That's always the case.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. You got a theory, Doug? You look at my words.

[Doug]

I kind of do. So you have a word that starts to have negative connections to it. So over time they just create a new word. So I'm trying to think of a good example of that. But you know, there are some words that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Inflation.

[Doug]

Yeah, inflation.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Doug]

How can you improve that?

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Money grew.

[Doug]

Yeah, exactly.

[Adam Schaefer]

Abundance.

[Sal DeStefano]

Anyway, did you guys bring the. The Megalon Megalodon tooth home?

[Adam Schaefer]

Not yet. I have mine here.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh my God.

[Adam Schaefer]

I got it. I gotta bring it home.

[Sal DeStefano]

So who was.

[Justin Andrews]

My kids were so excited.

[Sal DeStefano]

So it was like a fan, right? Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

It was Tyler client, I believe.

[Sal DeStefano]

Right. And he goes diving deep and he finds these. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Off the curve.

[Adam Schaefer]

I had no idea. Their comparison of the great white, bro, that's a huge.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's as big as my head.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's.

[Justin Andrews]

It's like if you just like think about the size, the pure size, because that tooth just dwarfs like a regular like white. Great white.

[Sal DeStefano]

Doug's holding one.

[Justin Andrews]

Look at this.

[Adam Schaefer]

So. So you. You looked up Doug and you remember what the number was. How many of those are in. In the Megalodon shark's mouth?

[Sal DeStefano]

Mouth. Yeah. Two hundred and something.

[Adam Schaefer]

So two hundred and something of those. And that thing weighs at least two pounds.

[Justin Andrews]

Everett. Everett told me there's like five rows.

[Adam Schaefer]

The one I have.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yours is bigger though.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. Yeah. So. Yeah, that's right, Doug. So it's. Mine's like. Mine's bigger and weighs up. So I bet just. I mean, let's just say. I mean, you could say it's one, one and a half, whatever. But 200 and some of those in a. In a 400 pound mouth. Imagine the power of that. Crushing down on something is. That's.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, first of all, it wasn't a Megalodon the size of a school bus.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I didn't know.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's not even gonna bite you.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's just gonna swallow biting him. I didn't. I didn't even know that it was that. That big of a size.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Whale like that's probably what they eat.

[Adam Schaefer]

I. I actually thought great white was one of the bigger sharks. I didn't realize that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, Megalodon doesn't exist anymore, so.

[Adam Schaefer]

Okay. That's.

[Sal DeStefano]

Why did you think Omega.

[Adam Schaefer]

I don't. I would never go in the. Bro, we just covered the other day we just covered the other day that there's more undiscovered parts of the ocean than anywhere. Anywhere else. It's like no And a guy's div of these fossils.

[Sal DeStefano]

Amazing. You thought for. Thank God we cleared this up. You thought Megalodons were still swimming.

[Adam Schaefer]

To this point. I didn't know that there was one that existed that was.

[Sal DeStefano]

That was bigger than a great white. I mean, I just assumed.

[Justin Andrews]

They have found giant squid though. And that was supposedly myth.

[Sal DeStefano]

Bro. Were you like about to like, we're not going in the ocean ever again.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, I don't know if I'm any more or less scared of a great white versus you know what I'm saying? I think I'd be equally at least terrified.

[Sal DeStefano]

You know, T. Rex is not exist.

[Adam Schaefer]

I had no idea that's an extinct man.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. That would be terrifying.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean I had. I had no idea. Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Have you seen there's giant squid that are. That still exist that are massive. Yeah, massive, bro.

[Adam Schaefer]

How big. How big are we talking?

[Justin Andrews]

Like I don't know if it was Japan was off the coast of Asia where they've actually found and like, like pulled in.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yes. Like sperm whale will have attack marks on them. Sperm whales are huge. Yeah. And they'll have suction mark attacks on them and they'll measure the size of it. And Doug, look up how big these giant squids are. Yeah.

[Doug]

They can go up to 43ft. 600 pounds.

[Sal DeStefano]

600 pounds?

[Adam Schaefer]

Bro, I want you that Megalodon is crazy. Well, but these exist actually now.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, I mean.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, they did at one point, right?

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, they did.

[Adam Schaefer]

Who knows creatures around the part of the ocean you guys don't know about too. Be careful how much you talk right now.

[Justin Andrews]

Look at. If you could look up a report. It's in Australia, like off the coast. They had found like, I think it was a Great white that got like a huge bite out of it. And it was like they couldn't explain like what kind of creature could produce this huge.

[Sal DeStefano]

They don't think it was a killer whale?

[Justin Andrews]

No, they didn't think it was a kid. It was bigger than that.

[Adam Schaefer]

So maybe a Megalodon is swimming around somewhere.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, there's been a couple reports like that that there's like off the coast.

[Adam Schaefer]

He's gonna keep. I know.

[Sal DeStefano]

How did they throw you a bone?

[Justin Andrews]

But like I did read something about.

[Adam Schaefer]

That and so what was. Give me, give me. What, what?

[Justin Andrews]

So more of the story. There was like a, one of the tracks. So they had like a, you know, one of those trackers that they, they put on for scientific research and it swallowed it like, because the thing is like something swallowed it and brought it down to the depths of the deep ocean and they don't know what it was.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, really? Yeah, really. Something giant swallowed it and took it to the bottoms. And we have a tracker. I read about that.

[Sal DeStefano]

I know, right?

[Justin Andrews]

Just like these dinosaurs don'.

[Sal DeStefano]

Wait a minute. Maybe this too.

[Adam Schaefer]

So according to our, according to our carbon dating, how old are these Megalodons and what, how, how, how big? I'm curious. I know with school bus size, but what would that weight wise be? I mean, that thing had to be tons.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh yeah, bro.

[Adam Schaefer]

Multiple tons.

[Sal DeStefano]

Have you seen the movie Meg? That, that's, that's, that's showing a Megalodon.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, is that what that's supposed to be about?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, there was, there's one alive and it was attacking.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, oh, interesting. Well, we know how much stuff comes true about movies. Yeah, they know something we don't know.

[Doug]

So between up to 94 tons.

[Adam Schaefer]

94 tons?

[Doug]

Yes, bro.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, I know.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, a ton is 2, 000 pounds. That's insane.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, that's huge.

[Adam Schaefer]

Holy.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's a big old shark, bro.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's so, that's so big. If it bumped into something, it would like.

[Sal DeStefano]

You know what sucks about destroy if you're on a yacht and eat buildings. If you're on a boat, you're dead, bro.

[Adam Schaefer]

You're on a carrier. It puts a hole in that thing. I'm serious. Maybe like, I mean, think about that for a second. 94 tons runs into a carrier that probably putting a hole in that little.

[Sal DeStefano]

Bit of a bump maybe. I don't know.

[Doug]

Yeah, I don't know.

[Sal DeStefano]

Steel, right? That's true. Yeah, I, yeah, I crazy the way killer whales. You guys know how killer whales, what they do to great whites, right?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

They go for the liver, they flip them upside down. So they, they organize. They flip a great white upside down, which kind of makes him paralyzed, and they, they like surgically remove the liver and leave the rest of the shark. They eat the liver? Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Crazy.

[Sal DeStefano]

They eat the liver and leave the rest of the shark the nutrient dense liver over.

[Adam Schaefer]

Let's leave all the rest.

[Sal DeStefano]

They leave the rest.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's interesting.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's crazy, right?

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, it has to be so nutrient dense to be worth attacking something like that and then leaving all the rest.

[Sal DeStefano]

It is.

[Adam Schaefer]

Wow.

[Sal DeStefano]

I know.

[Adam Schaefer]

I didn't know I saw one.

[Sal DeStefano]

I know, I know.

[Justin Andrews]

This smart.

[Sal DeStefano]

My son was asking me, so I'm like, let's watch some videos.

[Adam Schaefer]

I know. I've seen, I've seen those videos of where they're like getting seals and things like that. They work together.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. The ice or the water.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. And they all knock it, like certain ways to then flip.

[Sal DeStefano]

Flip the seal. That's crazy. That's funny too, because we think of killer whales as being like, cute.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

But they're way.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, they don't typically attack humans.

[Adam Schaefer]

You put them in captivity and you.

[Justin Andrews]

You dance them off.

[Sal DeStefano]

Doug, do orcas attack humans in the wild?

[Adam Schaefer]

Not in the wild. That's why I haven't really heard of it. No, they don't. That's why it was such a big deal when whatchamacallit happened when they did attack blackfish.

[Sal DeStefano]

Is that the documentary?

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Right.

[Justin Andrews]

I mean, Kevin in captivity.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, that's what I mean. That's why it was such a, was such a big deal is because, like, everyone' like they're not supposed to attack humans. But, you know, that also is different when you put them in captivity and do stuff like that with them.

[Sal DeStefano]

Interesting, interesting. You know, we had a caller earlier, I got a comment on something and I looked this up off air, so I wanted to bring it up on the show. She said that her Planet Fitness has barbells and a squat rack. Yeah. And you made a comment, Adam. And I was going to say more, but I'm like, hold it for the show. You were like, market. They're listening to the market.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

So I went online and I looked up does Planet Fitness gyms use barbells? And a lot of locations do.

[Adam Schaefer]

Wow. Interesting.

[Sal DeStefano]

A lot of. And I think it depends on the location. And I think you're right, bro. I think their little experiment of not putting barbells in because we don't want people deadlifting and stuff like that. And now the popularity of strength training is growing so much that the average person is now wanting to deadlift that volume.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's Pink's volumes. It's also brilliant. I mean, you gotta give them the. I mean, even though we kind of shit on the company a lot because of like the way that, the way they marketed. I mean, literally. And the reason why, if you haven't heard us talk about before, it's like you, when you, when your desired outcome is, is to help people get people fit in shape, I think that's a good place to be if you're a gym or you're a trainer or things like that. But when your desired outcome is to organize a business that you don't want your customers to use the gym but still pay you because you, you can't.

[Sal DeStefano]

Profit if they all use.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's right. So you have to under. People have to understand that, that like, like that model. If ever. If, if you're me, if you're. If 50% of your members were successful and showed up, it doesn't work. It works because they put the price so low they are banking on you not coming, but still paying the membership. That's a bit, you know, like, that's not. To me, that's a, that's a, that's a. I don't know.

[Sal DeStefano]

I don't like the.

[Justin Andrews]

Very misleading.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, yeah. That would be like us selling something intentionally wanting our. The thing that we sell to people for them to fail. Like, like, like, right. We do. We help trainers. Right, right. If we were putting something out that is almost like sabotaging their business and, and the, and then our whole business is about pumping more of them through it just so we can make money. But then really the information we're giving them is hopefully going to make their business fail. That's not a.

[Sal DeStefano]

The irony is the more this is literally how it works, the more members they get that don't use the gym, the lower the prices can go.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yep.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's literally how it works.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yes.

[Sal DeStefano]

And this, this has been the gym model, generally speaking, for big box gyms for a while. Planet Fitness just took it to a whole new level to the point where they, this is what they did. Here's what I want people to understand. Because people thought, oh, that's funny. No, no, they were strategic. They did commercials. You could find them. You can find them on YouTube where they would paint the stereotype of a bodybuilder, where they're in there with their tank tops and their clanging weights and then they set off a lunk Alarm. Which Planet Fitness some of them still have in there and they're like, you know, you got to get out of the gym. We don't want you in here. Now here's the strategy with that A. There is some fear about working out around bodybuilders, but it's not that big of a fear, you guys. It's not like this thing that's keeping people away from the gy. Not really what it is. What it is is they're trying to talk people into using the gym who aren't going to use it and talk people who are going to use it a lot into not going to their gym. That's right, yeah. So it's like we don't want people who work out a lot and then.

[Adam Schaefer]

They, then they throw in the once a month free pizza thing for you to go like, well, if I just eat pizza. Yep, $9 that make. I mean, it's a wash. That's right. And so it becomes a. Oh, okay. Well, it's a payment no matter what, regardless, I'm using it. And so that was the. So anyways, that was the whole point of me sharing that was that that's why we trashed him so much earlier on. But really cool to see that the market has spoken and that enough people that even go to their gyms are saying, hey, we need, we need barbells.

[Justin Andrews]

That's the only option in that area. You know, and it's, it's been frustrating because it's like, you know, they only have, it's like Smith machines the closest. And it's like it's not the same.

[Adam Schaefer]

Thing, but so the prediction, so the prediction for me is that they. Yeah, they used that strategy, the original one that we were talking about pizza not. Or not wanting the bodybuilder on there, there to grow and build and to separate themselves in the market, which was probably very brilliant. Now I think you will actually see them totally build and structure towards what everybody wants, which I mean, look for functional fields in their necks. Look for things that attract the crossfitter or attract other people that go. Because now they have a big enough piece of the pie that they can start to shift and steer the market a bit. And so I think that that's where they'll go.

[Justin Andrews]

Doug, just look up.

[Sal DeStefano]

They discontinued the free pizza back in 2020.

[Justin Andrews]

There you go.

[Sal DeStefano]

Wow, interesting.

[Adam Schaefer]

So they're totally, they're pivoting.

[Sal DeStefano]

That was a lot of heat for that. That's why it just makes no sense. No say, hey, you know, come to our Alcohol anonymous club, Free drinks on. What's going on here, dude? What are you guys doing?

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, I didn't realize they stopped that in 2020. I thought they were still. They were still doing that. But I mean that again, more of the. Listening to the market. They probably got a lot of heat for that.

[Sal DeStefano]

And.

[Adam Schaefer]

And they.

[Sal DeStefano]

I want to talk about something. I want to change directions here because we had a caller talk about this, and we often. We often talk to people who have trouble sleeping, and we typically talk to people who have trouble falling asleep. But another very common phenomena is people who can fall asleep just fine, but wake up at 3am and they can't go back to sleep and they feel restless. So what this feels like for you, if this is you, this is what it looks like. You go to sleep just fine because you're exhausted, and then you wake up three, four hours later, and then it's a bunch of back to sleep, wake up, back to sleep, wake up, look.

[Justin Andrews]

At the clock, go back and sleep. Look at the clock.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. And it's all night long until the alarm goes off, and then you feel exhausted. And this is a problem that I don't think is often addressed. And there are a couple potential solutions. So, one, I saw the sleep expert talk about this and I thought it was brilliant because it made sense. I haven't tried it yet, but you have nothing to lose. If this is you and you've tried everything, you got nothing to lose. Give this a shot. So what he said was, is he said typically what people will do when they wake up at, you know, 2:00am, 3:00am, whatever is, they'll wake up, look at the alarm clock, close their eyes, and try to go back to sleep. And then they end up doing this game of, I have three hours left before I have to wake up. I have two hours. Why can't I go back to sleep? And they're just trying. He said, listen, you're awake. You can't go back to sleep. Get up. He said, get up. Keep the lights really low. Don't turn on bright lights, and do something very counterintuitive. He said, do something relaxing like read. Like read a paper book in bed. And he said, and then when you feel sleepy, go back to sleep. And this particular expert said he had way more success with that than having people just try to stay.

[Adam Schaefer]

I'm super curious to hear. I mean, because you also gave her the advice to try Brain fm, which I think is a great piece of advice.

[Sal DeStefano]

I did that because Brain FM's data shows that it doesn't just help people fall asleep, it helps them stay asleep. And so if you play this in the background, either in headphones or. I know they say that, you know, they don't. They don't say do this, but it works is you play it in the background.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Throughout the night. And it helps. It helps people stay asleep. Yeah. Wake up. Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

So it'll be interesting to see if she goes and applies those two things and if one helps her more than other.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, she hadn't tried Brain fm, so, I mean, she had done a lot of the other traditional things. So I'm actually really excited to see Brim, because I don't know every family member friend works. I've introduced that too. I've never met somebody who says, oh, it was negligible or I didn't notice a difference. Everybody knows difference. It's literally how much of an impact it's made. And it's. Some people, it's. It's dramatic.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's my. That's what I use on planes every time. Every single time I use on a plane. And it's like. Makes a big difference. So. Yeah. Anyway, I read a crazy story about Al Capone. This is totally, you know, out of left field, but it was an interesting story. I looked it up to make sure it was true.

[Adam Schaefer]

I love old gangsters stories.

[Sal DeStefano]

Dude, this is a trip. So trip off this, right? There's a. A musician, famous jazz pianist, Fats. Walt Waller. So Fats Waller was a.

[Doug]

He.

[Sal DeStefano]

He was. He's famous. People are into jazz. Know he is.

[Justin Andrews]

There's always like a Fats.

[Sal DeStefano]

I know, I know. Isn't that funny? Back then they would. Your name would be something rude. Pirate John.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Anyway, his name was Fats Waller. Famous jazz player, right? He was kidnapped. He was kidnapped by Al Capone's mobsters. So they literally kidnapped him to surprise Al capone for his 28th birthday. And then when he got there, when he got there, they're like, we want you to play for him. And so then the rest of the night he played music and got super drunk. And apparently they all started treating him well. And then they dropped him off hammered and with thousands of dollars worth of tips. And he never pressed charges. Probably because he was afraid, bro. They literally kidnapped him. His birthday. Happy birthday. You know. Take off the blindfold. You're gonna play right now. Play song.

[Justin Andrews]

Play.

[Sal DeStefano]

Isn't that crazy?

[Justin Andrews]

Tommy Guns.

[Sal DeStefano]

Isn't that wild? But he earned thousands of. So they, of course, they tipped the hell out of him. Just paid him A lot of money and I guess he got into it. And his story is that he had a good time.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Could also be scared. But who.

[Adam Schaefer]

That is a random. What do you. What are you following or paying attention to? Where something like that comes up in your feed?

[Sal DeStefano]

I don't know.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's a really.

[Sal DeStefano]

I think I just click on this stuff and more of it pops up. Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

So I have no idea.

[Justin Andrews]

I went to a couple of those speakeasies when I was in Chicago.

[Sal DeStefano]

The real one.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

I w. We had stuff like that here. It's so lame though. We have a city and we're not. We don't have stuff like that. I think San Francisco has one or two.

[Sal DeStefano]

They have. They have different kind of sp.

[Justin Andrews]

I love that kind of history.

[Adam Schaefer]

Careful where you go. No, I'm. You're right, dude. It's not like. Like what Justin's talking about. We need more of those. Where were we all together?

[Sal DeStefano]

Where.

[Adam Schaefer]

We went to one that I. Austin. Oh, was it Austin?

[Sal DeStefano]

It was Austin Austin. And they organized it like.

[Justin Andrews]

I remember that one Deloney told us about that place.

[Adam Schaefer]

Was that him?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it was like this. It had had a. No signs or anything and you could go in there and it was. They played like jazz and stuff.

[Sal DeStefano]

I love that lounge. I mean, kind of similar. I love that. That lounge feel of a. Not like a bar.

[Justin Andrews]

That's my ideal kind of bar where it's more of like a cocktail bar.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. And you're sitting that place that I've. We went together. Doug Vesper. That's in.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, what's great about it is that it really. I don't know, induces the conversation because. And this is. I mean, I've even found this from my own house. That's why I love playing jazz at my house. House when I have company. Because I like music. I love me. We all love music. But even my favorite music I like to listen personally listen to is not conducive for conversation.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Where. Where instrumental stuff powers everything. Yes. Low level instrumental stuff in the background. That's easy listening. It just. It. I don't know. It like. It creates that environment of good conversation and talking versus, you know, listening to words in a song. And so I've completely. When I have parties or have people at my house, it's.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh yeah. It's easy to love Chicago. There's so many jazz and BL Clubs like that that were really like unique and, you know, you obviously had to know somebody who knows how to get in there. And I Remember seeing like, like BB King's daughter and like they'd just be random really cool artists that would come through.

[Adam Schaefer]

I like, you know I would, you know I would love to have something like that. Like that's like a, that's like a dream or a, or to own. Yeah, I would love it. Doesn't need to make money. Literally just needs to just pay for itself.

[Sal DeStefano]

We have a gym for first.

[Adam Schaefer]

I see. I would rather have the speakeasy.

[Sal DeStefano]

Gyms.

[Adam Schaefer]

All around us and plus the gym is work for me. Dude. That's that being in there will remind.

[Justin Andrews]

Me of what I need a second.

[Adam Schaefer]

I'm not saying I wouldn't like a really cool custom gym too because I.

[Sal DeStefano]

I, that's, I just had one just dream just I want either a supplement company or, or a gym.

[Adam Schaefer]

You dream about doing more, building more work around your work. That's like, that's not the dream though. I just want to having having like a private, private like elite club that you have to knock on a door, be invited by somebody that you know that you have special to hang special artists because you've got connections and relationships with people that like that, that come in and play for a small intimate group of 50, 60 people. Like oh yeah. Good food and stuff. I would love to do something like that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Kind of cool. Dude.

[Justin Andrews]

Did you guys hear about like what they're doing for Stranger Things?

[Brian]

No.

[Justin Andrews]

This last season.

[Adam Schaefer]

No.

[Justin Andrews]

I got so excited.

[Adam Schaefer]

Dude. What.

[Justin Andrews]

So each episode is going to be anywhere from like, like 90 to 120 minutes so longer. So they're and they're treating them like each is a blockbuster movie. Eight blockbuster movies back to back.

[Sal DeStefano]

Now they all connected or they all separate.

[Justin Andrews]

They're all connected and it's all following the same like storyline like that they're trying to go out with a huge bang.

[Adam Schaefer]

So this is. Okay, so this is interesting because this is something that I think I, I actually think podcasting is really what but has sent media and stuff in this direction that we historically have had these like sitcom short attention span things and we're proving that we can, we enjoy these longer form story lines.

[Justin Andrews]

Longer, more complex story lines that you can really follow. Because yeah when it stops it's like oh that sucks.

[Sal DeStefano]

I cancel my Netflix.

[Justin Andrews]

Well yeah, maybe just for that.

[Adam Schaefer]

I know I, I, I, I watched one or two of those seasons but it's, it's not my, that's not my jam.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Did you get into it, Doug? I didn't get into it.

[Doug]

I did, I think I watched, watched Season one and two.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, I watched part two. I was like. It was kind of like it lost me after a while. It wasn't. I mean, I get it if that's the stuff. You guys are into that type of stuff. Yeah, I'm not.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, totally. I won't keep it.

[Adam Schaefer]

Whatever.

[Sal DeStefano]

I gotta talk about you. Have you guys noticed this?

[Justin Andrews]

Well, I'm into it, so. You guys always.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, I really don't care if you don't like my stuff. Listen, you got a lot of people behind you. I'm not gonna talk. You know what I'm saying?

[Sal DeStefano]

Most popular series.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, it is. It's for sure.

[Sal DeStefano]

Have you guys. Have you guys noticed how quickly we just got a huge shipment of the. The crisp power protein gone.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, I went yesterday to get some for myself. I can't. I do not like our staff. Jerry, when you listen to this, this is like part of the deal. I thought we'd talk. You know, you're supposed to. She's supposed to carve off stuff for the founders and then. Because with the staff we have now something good hits the. Hits our place, they're gone. And we don't police it. So it's just like.

[Justin Andrews]

What's your guys favorite flavor?

[Adam Schaefer]

Flaming hot.

[Sal DeStefano]

And the cheddar. Yeah, yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

She thinks cheddar.

[Sal DeStefano]

They're really.

[Justin Andrews]

They're.

[Adam Schaefer]

I heard Doug say when we were looking up that. That today about them, that their cinnamon.

[Sal DeStefano]

One is a real popular one.

[Adam Schaefer]

It was good, but it wasn't the. I didn't think it was the best.

[Doug]

No, I think it was the most requested one, meaning that they didn't have it.

[Adam Schaefer]

And people were asking. Someone said, make a cinnamon one. I think, you know, when I ate it, I couldn't help but think pouring milk in it, like making a cereal out of it. I. That's what I felt like when I was eating.

[Sal DeStefano]

You know what I would do is I would dip it in peanut butter.

[Adam Schaefer]

Or something like that. Yeah, cinnamon and peanut butter. It might be all right. He's all cheddar, dude. I sent him over this cheddar, this cheese macaroni cheese recipe with like, like cheez its crunch. It was like disgustingly like good though. There's a part. Yeah, I kind of want to try that.

[Sal DeStefano]

You know, Taco Bell's the king of that. They'll combine things.

[Adam Schaefer]

What are you doing, dude?

[Justin Andrews]

I had ears.

[Adam Schaefer]

I. I was gonna share with you guys a dad thing. I did share a little bit yesterday with you. You know, when these, these. I'm obviously, I'm behind Everybody, right? So I'm. I'm the last dad. So as I shared recently the. How cool it was that my. My son can beat me at something. Like, like, it's so. It's funny as these dad moments happen to me, that just never crossed my mind that that would be something that, like, gives me so much.

[Sal DeStefano]

You didn't let him win. He actually.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, no, that's. And there's a huge difference. Like, obviously he's six. I've been playing games with him since he was a little kid. But come on. I mean, let's, you know, I'm. I'm doing everything I can to let him win. So he has fun and enjoys it. But, like, we're now I'm like, really trying to win and I'm getting beat. And so I actually, like, look forward to coming home. Like, you want to play your new. Let's go. You know, saying like, I want to play. You know what I'm saying? It's like, exciting. So that's a really cool thing for me. Thing I was bringing up though, it's. Which is also interesting. I shared way back when when how watching certain shows on TV changed for me because if I saw like a kid, kid, you know, a child get taken, I was watching like, remember I told you guys almost cried. I was watching a medieval show where.

[Sal DeStefano]

They took the firstborn son. I can't do that.

[Adam Schaefer]

And it's like, how weird.

[Justin Andrews]

It's totally different now.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's weird how something like, I mean, I'm 40 something years old, so I'm pretty aware of my personality. Things I like, things that affect me emotionally. So when. When new things that I would have never thought of driving home yesterday and like, fighting back tears, listening to Katrina talking to me as she's reporting back the. She was on. She. I didn't make the. The zoom call, but our school does, you know, zoom call, like parent conference stuff to go over your son. And she's like, literally repeating back to me, like, everything the teacher said. And like hearing a teacher talk about your son is like their favorite student in the class. And for all the reasons. And then also to commend her parenting because it's just like, oh, man.

[Sal DeStefano]

Just.

[Adam Schaefer]

It took everything for me not to cry, like, listening to that because I think, you know, as a parent, you're. You're always thinking of like, you. There's part of you, at least I think everybody is like, you know, you know, you're going to screw something up. What are you not going to. What are you going to miss what are you not going to do enough of what are you going to overreach on like as a. And you're just hoping you get it right that he. The kid's not a up or he's not this bad kid or he's not like. I mean, listen, I hear there's other kids in the class that I know that you know, like it has a reputation like, oh, that kid's always bad for parents. I do, I do.

[Sal DeStefano]

I.

[Adam Schaefer]

And so there's a part of me, I'm like, oh man, if that was me, like, I have a. I have a close friend and some kids are.

[Sal DeStefano]

Just bro, it tore me a bunch.

[Adam Schaefer]

Or this I couldn't like, she. She talks about. She's like, it's so cool that we. Because again, another thing that the school does I really like they do all these things to incr. Not just the education part, but the life skills things that they. They include. And I feel like every teacher parent conference I. I learned something new. And this teacher that this new class he's in, she intentionally rotates their seats all the time purely out of the to. To put them in uncomfortable situations and have to meet a new kid and be friends. And she just talks about how every time, you know, that she's like, he's. He. Everybody likes him. Everybody wants to be friends with him. And then Katrina's like, well, you know, that's all great. She goes, but our concern. We don't want our son to be a pushover. She's. Oh no, no, he's. He. He'll tell you if he doesn't want to do something. And he's. She says that's one of the things that we love about. He's so self aware. Like he will communicate to another kid, like, yeah, I don't want to play with you.

[Sal DeStefano]

You know, like. Or you're too.

[Adam Schaefer]

You're too rough or. And she's like. And he's so sweet and nice about it. But then he's also so assert assure of himself and oh man, just melt me inside. And I know like, my heart breaks for when you hear the stories of these kids that, that the parents have that hard time with or I have a friend who the. They. They got their report from their. From their teacher and they said like, yeah, sometimes she sits all by herself and nobody. Oh God. And I thought. And I told Katrina, I'm like, I don't know what I would do if they reported back to me that my kids that is sitting at recess lonely, like, I don't I think I would be, I would want to pull him out. I almost feel like I'm like.

[Sal DeStefano]

And I don't even know if that's.

[Adam Schaefer]

The right thing to do. I'm like, if I heard that nobody wanted to play with my kid and he was all by himself and to think that I'm. I'm putting him in there for six hours a day or whatever and he's sitting alone, like, man, I would, I don't know what I would do. I feel like I would figure a way to homeschool if I had to, to hear something like that.

[Sal DeStefano]

The other night I was praying with my 3 year old before bed, bed. And she's so cute. She puts her hands together and clinches her, clinches her little face and does this thing. And as I'm praying and I'm almost done and she goes, and thank you for my brother and my papa. Amen. And I'm like, oh, thank you. So cute. I love it.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, it's a trip. I mean, I mean I was definitely not the guy who thought I was going to be, you know, kids and that thing. I mean, I knew at one point I probably would, but to see all the things that change about you as an individual, this is why I think everybody who has them, when you don't tell you. Oh, you'll see, you'll see. You can't describe it, you can't explain it.

[Sal DeStefano]

We were talking about this yesterday how, we were talking about how some people just have this incredible tolerance for chaos and sacrificing their own needs. And these people have all these kids and it's like, how do they do this? We know people friends of ours with like seven children. Yeah, they raised seven kids themselves, but now they're older and the kids are always over with their kids and they have this full.

[Adam Schaefer]

I got to think that that's.

[Sal DeStefano]

And I'm like, that's such a wonderful payback I got.

[Adam Schaefer]

I going to say, I got to believe that that's the ultimate delay gratification of parenting. Because there's nothing about parenting that's easy, right? It's hard. It's hard. It's a lot of work.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's very sacrificial.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's what makes it rewarding is that. And part of that, that rewarding process is the outcome is like, I get it now. It's. It's those mo. Like that. All those stuff that led up to, to putting the work into Max, to being the kid he is. To hear that from a teacher is that's what that's it. That like that amount, that feeling that I got is so powerful that I can draw back on it and it makes me emotional on how much it. And I imagine it'll still be that way a year, two years from now, which that makes all the stuff before worth it. And so, so I can only imagine having seven and going through so much and then to get them to come back and to be all you have.

[Sal DeStefano]

To talk to these people like, how did you do it? Like, how do you go, how did you handle that? Like, well, it's chaos and you just, just do it, you know. But it's so wonderful.

[Adam Schaefer]

I feel like it's just, it's not.

[Sal DeStefano]

But that's a lot.

[Adam Schaefer]

We grew up in a. The 80s and 90s and even today is, it's an interesting time. I think with like fatherhood, I, I don't think it's, I don't think it's celebrated or shared.

[Sal DeStefano]

This be a sense of pride.

[Adam Schaefer]

It should be.

[Sal DeStefano]

Men would talk to each other, how many children do you have? It was like a sense of pride, like you could support that many kids, you could father that many children. And somehow society has convinced us that it's this, oh, you have four kids, you got no life. Oh, you must not be able. Boy, life must be tough for you. You know, type of deal, which is. It's kind of wild. It's wild how it's so, it's been sold that way.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's so wrong because all of the other things, and admittedly that in my 20s that I think I cherished, chased after are so short term and unfulfilling even. I mean I've done a lot of cool.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

And, and, and in the moment those things, I still will go, oh, that was a blast. Or that was fun. But nothing in comparison to a moment like yesterday like that there's, it pales in comparison. And so yet we, we. Everything in the movies, everything we talk about a lot of the stuff that we drive to, the people that we follow and admire are, you know, are, are always talking, sharing or showing off all the, all these materialistic things that we, we, we tend to celebrate so much when it's like, oh man, if you only knew. The, the fatherhood thing is a million times, a million times better than the coolest thing that you could think of.

[Sal DeStefano]

Now when I meet another dad and I hear that they have kids and I, if I, especially if I see them being involved with their children, like immediate respect, I don't care about anything else. Like, immediately I'm like, respect.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, it's fun to see, especially with like a group of friends where, you know, they've been single for so long and all of a sudden they're having a kid and then they have a kid, and it's like just to watch the transformation, not just of them having a kid, but their own personal, their depth, their growth. Through that whole process, they change. And it's like usually and pretty much always for the better. And it's just like, you just see that, that experience and. And then, yeah, you reflect on what it's done to you as an individual. You've changed and you know your place in this world.

[Adam Schaefer]

What do you guys think? What do you guys think? Is it a, the, the parents that it doesn't do that too? Obviously we're like, there's obviously shitty parents.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Right. There's obviously that situation. So if, if it was so impactful for all of us, for all of you. Right. And, and you know what? That feeling like, it was. I think what, what, what is missing.

[Sal DeStefano]

For the person besides the extreme stuff?

[Adam Schaefer]

Doesn't speak that way.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, besides the extreme stuff, like drug abuse and, you know, severe trauma. I think, I think it's, it's having a tough time accepting that it's not about you because having kids is not about you. You sacrifice. And sacrifice is a word. If I use sacrifice, people think it means you're trading something better for something worse. Like, oh, you got to sacrifice. No, it's a worthwhile sacrifice, but you.

[Adam Schaefer]

Have to accept it's a trade and it's a way better trade.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, you accept, like, you have children now. It's not about.

[Justin Andrews]

They're resisting the change. They're trying to maintain this self identity that they had going into it.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. And you think that, you think that has more to do with the individual maturity or both? What do you think?

[Sal DeStefano]

I think it's mature, individual. I think it has to do with family. That helps. And I think it has to do with how society has painted it. Because when you have encouragement from the people around you and society, I think that would help because I do, I.

[Adam Schaefer]

Do, I do question this. Had I not live my 20s and 30s to the, to what I thought was the fullest and all doing all those things, I wouldn't be able to draw back on that comparison. And so is it maybe you. You stepped into fatherhood sooner before you had that, and maybe there's not enough people telling you that.

[Sal DeStefano]

I don't know. I think you're pointing to God's Grace Adam, because I think if you had a child early, you would have been a great dad, too. I don't think you would be as wise or have as much money, but it would have been just as transformational.

[Justin Andrews]

Just like anything else, you would have.

[Sal DeStefano]

Been just as transformational. You would have loved your kid just as much. So this whole myth of, like, you got to be ready and there's an element of truth to that, don't get me wrong, but. Except that it's a. It's going to be a long season of. It's not about you. And so you can't do the stuff that you did before, but it's worth it.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. But do you. I mean, to Justin's point, like, do you think that. Let's not use me as an example, because I agree with you. I think this. What I not having. My dad probably laid the roadmap for how I was going to be a dad probably early on. Right. But if you. If I didn't have a lot of experience or somebody else like me. Me didn't have a lot of those experience before, could. Would they wrestle a lot with the. Oh, man. But to get to do the Vegas trip, and I always want to, and I'm not going to do that. Oh, my. My boys are all flying, doing this, and they're constantly wrestling with that. I'm missing, you know, FOMO of my young buddies that aren't married that are all doing those things, and I'm married with kids, and I'm.

[Sal DeStefano]

I'm missing out again. I think it's your perspective. I really do. And I think if we had more societal support, community around. Yeah. Like. Like if you're a dude in your mid-30s and your buddies are going out to Vegas and you're at home with. And you got, you know, two or three kids. I think it would speak volumes if society was like, dude, your buddies need to grow up and good for you.

[Adam Schaefer]

Right. Or they're missing out on what you get.

[Sal DeStefano]

Versus media is constantly telling you you're missing out. You don't get to hang out with all these chicks. You don't get to go, you know, look at all your money is tied up in these kids. And oh, my God, it's so hard. And then you're at home and you're thinking, like, yeah, that's true. Like, this all sucks because you're just thinking about it.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's what I think it is. I think it is. And I do. I mean, not to bl. Same society. We're all you know, we're all responsible.

[Sal DeStefano]

For individuals are what creates.

[Adam Schaefer]

But you know, you're, you know, you're right.

[Justin Andrews]

Messaging and the marketing.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. Because I think, I think that would for sure help me having people I, I trust, value, look up to if I was in that situation, let's say and I didn't get to do a lot of those things and I'm going, oh man. And they're going pro. You have it.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

You have, you have what they don't have.

[Sal DeStefano]

Right. I think like let me give you a couple examples. Right. Women are constantly told that their beauty is their most valuable thing. So for a woman it's like I'm going to sacrifice my looks. Well, news flash, it's going to happen anyway. You're going to get old anyway. So that's a myth and it's a wonderful sacrifice especially if you pour yourself into your children, you grow your family for men, we're told make a lot of money. Not so you can support a lot of kids. No, make a lot of money so you can go buy a lot of things. Yeah. And go have all this fun self indulgence dude stuff. The reality is like yeah, you should go and pursue to you know, building a career and so you can support a large family so you can take care of your family. That's what I mean by the twisting that's happened in the world to the point where modern societies, the more wealthy they get, the less kids people have.

[Adam Schaefer]

And unhappy and less happy.

[Sal DeStefano]

I know there's your evidence.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean that's the, that's the misconception. I wonder if we will unravel that or the, the pendulum.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's starting to flip.

[Adam Schaefer]

You think so?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, it's starting to flip a little bit. The beliefs that people have are starting to change. Gen Z is actually starting to change some of these trends that were going in that direction. So I have hope by the way, having less and less kids, it will collapse society also that's actually a crisis. I know. Paleo Valley bone broth protein is the best tasting protein powder you've ever had in your entire life. It's minimally processed chocolate, tastes like chocolate donuts. I'm not making this up. Super easy to digest. Almost nobody has an issue digesting bone broth protein. In fact it's advocated for gut health. So this is a protein powder you can take and not get gas with. Go try it out. Go to paleovalley.com mindpump that link will get you 15% off. Back to the show.

[Doug]

Our first caller Is Lorena from Canada.

[Sal DeStefano]

Hi Lorena.

[Adam Schaefer]

How you doing, Lorena?

[Lorena]

Hi, how are you guys?

[Sal DeStefano]

We're good. How are you?

[Adam Schaefer]

Good, good.

[Lorena]

Thanks for having me. I'm just going to read my email. I am a 42 year old mom has been lifting weights for about 6 years. My fitness journey started with Orange Theory where I stayed consistently for five years. While I enjoy the classes, I eventually started to feel bored and frustrated that I wasn't seeing any real changes in my body. About a year ago, I decided to step away from group classes and instead focusing on training on my own in a regular job gym. Since then I've definitely seen some progress and feel stronger overall. But I also find myself a little lost when it comes to how I should be progressing. For example, I'm not always sure when I should increase the weight on an exercise. And I've noticed that while my lower body is getting stronger, my upper body has stayed stuck with very little progress. This has left me wondering if I'm approaching progressive overload. Correct. I also purchased Muscle Mommy about three months ago and I really love it. But I get confused with the rep and weight changes. Especially when the program shifts from higher reps to lower reps. Should I be keeping the same weight across the different rep ranges or should I be increasing? Since I last rode, I restarted the program and I've seen significantly strength gains. For example, my squat has increased from 105 to 170. My deadlift has gone from 165 to 225.

[Adam Schaefer]

Wow.

[Lorena]

I'm now starting phase two which calls for 15 repetitions. Phase one required 12 repetitions which I was able to achieve by the end of it. My confusion lies with phase two. Should I decrease the weight to successfully complete 15 repetitions or should I maintain my current weight and work towards hitting 15 reps?

[Sal DeStefano]

Good question.

[Adam Schaefer]

Very common.

[Sal DeStefano]

More. Is there more?

[Lorena]

Yes. With my upper body is so much different and I'm not able to increase the weight every week. Is this normal? Is there something I should be doing differently?

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay, good. Okay, so the last part. Yes. It's normal to not progress every single week. That's. That's impossible.

[Justin Andrews]

It's not linear.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. So you'll see progress. You'll. When you first get started, oftentimes the progress is very consistent. It's like man, every time I work out, I seem to be able to add weight to the bar. That starts to slow down as you continue to progress and then eventually later on, you know you're doing this for a few years consistently. It could be like, I gain, you know, some strength, you know, every year, you know, my squat went up 10 pounds or 15 pounds or 20 pounds this year, whereas in the beginning, it may be 10, 15 pounds in a month. So that can definitely change. Now to back. Back up, I'll go. I'll go in reverse of what you asked. When the rep range goes up or down, you adjust the weight. So you want to pick a weight that allows you to perform the target rep range with good intensity. Okay, so if you're squatting 170lbs for 12 reps now it says 15 reps, you're probably gonna have to drop down to like 150, 155, or something like that. And then pick a weight that allows you to do that rep range again, again with good intensity. And then when it comes to getting stronger, generally speaking, there's three reasons why somebody won't get stronger. Diet, programming, and then your genetic potential. So we'll start with genetic potential. You can't get stronger forever. Like, if. If that was possible, you know, Justin, Adam, and myself would be bench pressing £300 or, sorry, £3,000 by. By this point. Yeah, I know I've done 300.

[Justin Andrews]

We got that covered.

[Sal DeStefano]

Programming's the other one. If you follow good programming, then great. If you're not, then you could, you could have a great dinos stuff, and it's just not going to work. You're following Muscle Mommy, so I know you're probably following good programming. And then the other one's diet. If you're not eating enough to fuel strength and muscle, then you won't get stronger regardless of how great everything is. So those are the three places to look. But if you're. If you're seeing yourself get stronger relatively consistently, like over the last time you did Muscle Mommy versus this time, you're doing great.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, it sounds like you're doing really good.

[Lorena]

Yeah, it was really good to see. I was like, okay, I'm going to buy a different program. But then I wasn't sure which one to buy, so I was like, okay, maybe I'll just do it again and see how much I've purchased progress. And yeah, it's. It's been. It's been great. But yeah, definitely my upper body is like, where I lack the strength and. Yeah. And I don't know if bumping up my calories is a good idea for that or is it just usually something that you're not going to see as much progress as your lower body.

[Sal DeStefano]

As a woman, you won't you'll typically see strength gains in the lower body lifts. Much faster.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Than the upper body lifts. That being said, have you progressed so from the last time you did Muscle Mommy to now, have you seen a change in your bench press, your row, your overhead press a little bit?

[Lorena]

Not so much.

[Sal DeStefano]

How much?

[Lorena]

I will say maybe my reps are a bit higher, but certainly the weight is not.

[Sal DeStefano]

So how much higher are the reps? Five. Three?

[Lorena]

I would say about three.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay. You're stronger still.

[Justin Andrews]

Moving forward.

[Sal DeStefano]

Where are your calories? Calories?

[Lorena]

I think so. I don't really track very well. The only thing that I'm tracking right now is protein. I'm certainly between 130 and 150.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, good.

[Lorena]

Per day. I would say maybe my calories around maybe. I'm gonna say like 2:20, 200.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay.

[Justin Andrews]

I think you're doing good.

[Sal DeStefano]

I think you're doing good.

[Adam Schaefer]

I think you're doing really good.

[Justin Andrews]

There's a lot of opportunity still there. From what it sounds like, you're doing orange theory for quite a long time. And now you switch. Switched, you know, to actually having rest periods of focusing on strength. I think the potential is still, you know, quite a bit of potential there left.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Also, you want to look at the whole picture. So, okay, I went up three. Let's say I went up three reps in my overhead press, but I went up 30 pounds in my deadlift in my squat. Am I eating enough to fuel strength gains? Yeah, you are. Yeah, you're doing great.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

So. So. And that's not uncommon with women. You know, getting women to progress with upper body after a year or two really slows down lower body. We typically have a lot more Runway.

[Justin Andrews]

I mean, if you really want to dive into it, I would suggest powerlift would be a good option for you to. To really figure that out, like, where your potential lies and your capacity for strength and then, you know, kind of come back from there. But, like, if you really pursued it, you would see, you know, how that then translates to. To, you know, a lot of these high rep type of workouts.

[Adam Schaefer]

I'd love to see you in our muscle mommy group too. Did you. Are. Are you aware that we started that? Have you seen that?

[Lorena]

No.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, yes. I'll have Doug send you a link to that. Which is incredible. Which is nothing but women trying to get strong in there. And a lot of them are reverse dieting. And there's a lot of strategy. Every week there's a coaching call. Wednesday we got Dr. Gabriel Lyon coming in talking about woman's hormones. So just to.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Lorena]

Oh, that would be great.

[Adam Schaefer]

And then as you're going through that, it already has Muscle Mommy included in. It also has Muscle Mommy 15 in there. And then as you go through the programming, we'll just keep you going on new programs. So when it's. When you run through that program, we'll set you up with the next one. So great. You'll great community in there. You'll love it.

[Lorena]

All right. No, that would be great. I have one more question.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yep, sure.

[Lorena]

So since leaving Orange Theory, I've caught back in my cardio by a lot. And I'll sometimes add in like a hiit workout about twice a week. Do you guys recommend that? Like, do you think hit cardio is better than hit with weights or, like, what's the recommendation?

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay, so what's your goal out of this? More stamina.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Lorena]

And I guess, I don't know, I feel a little bit fluffy after not doing so much cardio.

[Adam Schaefer]

So a better strategy would do lean. Continue to lean in the. Building the strength and not worry about the hit cardio right now. And then after we build your calories up, say 24, 2500 calories, then go into a cut, then introduce hit that if you. For fat loss. If we were trying to use hit cardio as a strategy for fat loss, you'd be better served to just keep focusing on strength right now and build. Build and maybe even bump your calories, a couple hundred calories and keep going that direction for a little while and then go, okay, maybe after a month. And by the way, in the group, we can talk about all this stuff more specific to you as we track you week by week. And then we'll go, okay, great. We've got our calories up to 2500. Now let's start to cut down to 2100 calories. Do that for a couple weeks. Your. Your results slow down. Then we introduce hiit cardio. Then they start to keep going. So that's how I would use hiit cardio if you're trying to use it for fat loss.

[Sal DeStefano]

If it's for stamina, then I think hit cardio days a week is great. And that'll give you the endurance.

[Lorena]

Okay. No, that sounds great. And then so what you're saying is, like, Power lift would be a good program.

[Sal DeStefano]

I think if you want to get. If you want to get strong. Absolutely.

[Adam Schaefer]

How far? You're in phase two right now of Muscle Mommy again, where you just.

[Lorena]

I just started phase two. Yes.

[Adam Schaefer]

So finish, go through that all the way we'll have Doug send power lift to you. So you have. Have that. But, but. Follow, follow, Muscle Mommy. Follow, follow the. That's in the rest. And then get inside the group and then we'll take you through Power lift.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yep.

[Lorena]

And it's power lift like three or four days a week or how does that work?

[Sal DeStefano]

I think it's. I want to say four or five.

[Adam Schaefer]

I don't know.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, yeah, it's about five.

[Sal DeStefano]

I believe it's five days a week. It's powerlifting. Focus. So the, the main goal is stronger at bench, deadlift and squat.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Lorena]

Okay. Perfect.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Awesome. All right, we'll see you in there. All right.

[Sal DeStefano]

Thank you.

[Lorena]

Thank you.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, that's good. Good question. Yeah, that's typical for a woman. You'll see the lower body continue to progress, upper body start to slow down. But if you're progressing, you're progressing. And like I said earlier, the three things are genetic potential, which takes a while. So that's typically not it. Unless you've been doing this for a long time and you're hitting some great numbers or whatever. Dodge diet. And in programming, those are the main area. Other things can, you know, play a.

[Justin Andrews]

Role, like wrestling recovery with the programming.

[Adam Schaefer]

What is this? What is the science on the. Because women have this like the same potential in the lower body, but they have like one third the potential. And I forget what, what it was that was it. Is it muscle fiber density? Is it the type of muscle fibers? Or why is it that women. Because you. I, I had female clients. Genetic difference that could squat, leg press. A lot of my men. So the potential for your lower body for women is. Is, I believe, as equal as far as the percentage that they can close anyway as men. But then upper body, I believe, is one third the potential.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, so. So men still have a higher potential for lower body, but the. They're closer to the male potential with the lower body and the upper body. And it has to do with muscle, like you said, muscle fiber type, central nervous system, system output structure, bone density, hormone. I mean, it's. There's a lot of factors that play a role in that. But yeah, if you look at like overall potential as a percentage of body weight for lower body, men are still much stronger. Yeah, but women are closer in that than they are.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, I thought it was almost, almost equal for the lower body, but I know that what I've read, when it's bigger, it's like one third of the potential there. Yeah.

[Doug]

Our next caller is Brian from California.

[Sal DeStefano]

What's up, man?

[Brian]

What's up, you guys? Thanks a lot for having me on.

[Sal DeStefano]

You got it, dude. How can we help you?

[Brian]

Well, first of all, I just want to thank you guys for everything you do. I've been a listener about five years, and back in 2020, you guys helped me put on about 20 pounds of lean mass, so.

[Lorena]

Wow.

[Brian]

Yeah. And I've been able to maintain and even get a little more since then. So anybody listening? Like, these guys are the real deal. No gimmicks.

[Sal DeStefano]

Thank you.

[Derek]

Thank you, guys.

[Sal DeStefano]

Thank you. How can we help you, dude?

[Justin Andrews]

Boom.

[Brian]

So, like I said, I've been listening a long time, and a lot of the things you guys talk about to maximize your workouts, I'm pretty good at tracking them. Um, and I can usually tell how my workout's gonna feel based on sleep, what I've eaten, recovery days, programming my hydration, salt levels. Like, all those things I, I, I keep pretty good track of. And about 80% of the time, the math is mathing. Like, when I do everything right, workouts feel good. I feel connected, I feel positive, pumped, everything like that. But then it's that 20% of the time, I can't figure out. There's like, sometimes I go in and I feel like, wow, okay. I'm coming off a couple rest days. I've eaten well, I'm hydrated. Like, my workout's gonna feel good, and then it's just trash.

[Adam Schaefer]

Like, it.

[Brian]

Joints hurt. Like, it takes a bunch of sets to even feel warmed up. And then I've also had times where I'm literally off, like, two hours sleep, thinking it's gonna feel like garbage, and I go in and just feel amazing, and I'm hitting like, a pr. It makes no sense to me. So I don't know if you guys could, like, shed some light on that. I don't know if the no sleep thing is making maybe that temporary spike in cortisol that you guys talk about sometimes.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, that's what that is.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

So. So, okay, you sound like someone who kind of has a good idea of all the different factors that we tend to track. Diet, sleep, programming, you know, sounds to me like you have a decent handle on those things. Is that correct? Does that feel that way?

[Brian]

Yeah. Yeah, it seems like it.

[Sal DeStefano]

I wouldn't worry about the rest. So here. The rest of it. So here's the thing that you don't want. You don't want to fall into this trick trap. You don't want to fall into the trap of worshiping the feeling of the Workout. Now, I know we communicate often that it's a good thing to feel the workout, to pay attention to how it feels. And it is. But if you start to fall in love with that, the workout always has to feel like a great workout. It's going to drive you in the wrong direction because unfortunately, there are times you just. It just doesn't make sense.

[Justin Andrews]

You're beyond that sometimes.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, you're beyond that. You've got. You've. You've really figured this out, bro. I mean, the fact that you're adjusting things based off of how you're feeling, you're eating, you're doing all the right things that you. And you're tracking the stuff that really matters. Life is weird. Like, working out is weird. Like that. I. We all experience the exact same thing. There's just times when this doesn't add up. I shouldn't feel this strong yet. I am that strong, you know, And I can't. I can't break down the science of why that day I did. You know, it's. It's hard to pinpoint. And then you can get paralysis by analysis, by trying to over focus on those things. I mean, yeah, that makes sense if you've put 20 pounds of muscle on and you're still continuing to put some muscle on, even if it's incremental. Now you're. You're doing it, bro. I mean, you're doing. Yeah, you're doing a. You're doing a hell of a job. I mean, the one thing I'd ask you is, like, as you rotate through our programs, like, do you. Do you do good. Good job of making sure that at least one time a year you get either symmetry or performance in there, or do you tend to focus just on one or two programs? We do. Like, what do you do right now with your program cycle?

[Brian]

Like, every. Everything I do pretty much is based off, like, anabolic. Like, all. And I like going six days a week, so I just do upper, lower days. And then every three to five weeks, I'm switching up my rep ranges.

[Adam Schaefer]

Okay.

[Brian]

And then I'll play around a little bit with different tempos and things like that. Like, to. To connect better, I'll sometimes, sometimes like, work in a shorter range of motion and then, like, expand it out. Kind of just everything to create the novelty but not do it too often.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Do you do a lot of activity outside the gym or. Because, Because I play a lot of golf.

[Brian]

So like, probably three, four times a week, I'm walking, carrying my bag, and, you know, but nothing. Nothing crazy. I just kind of stay fairly active.

[Adam Schaefer]

Symmetry.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. You might want to move out of. Out of the map. Synabolic programming if you've been doing it for a long time. Long time. Because you could start to cause some imbalances and start to get joint issues because there's not much. There's nothing really in there laterally. There's no rotation.

[Justin Andrews]

Those two are big.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. I think symmetry would be good. Performance would be good as an interrupter, and that might give you what you're looking for.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Brian]

Okay.

[Adam Schaefer]

Do either one of those sound more appealing? Because whichever one you want, we'll send to you. I mean, I. I think you definitely should follow one of those. And I think you can go back.

[Sal DeStefano]

To anabolic and see how you feel.

[Adam Schaefer]

Just once a year. I always recommend, especially where you're at. Right. You figured you've got the big rocks. The next big rock is probably really making your programming make a lot of sense. Every. And getting one round of symmetry or one round of performance every year in your programming cycle is a smart strategy, no matter who you are and what your goals are. And so, you know, if one of those sounds more appealing to you, we'll send it to you. But that's. At least one of those. Those should go in your program to interrupt a anabolic style of programming. Just because it's all bilateral, no rotational stuff. Very uni. Very. There's no unilateral work inside of anabolic. So that type of stuff, it will serve you well, especially since you're a golfer.

[Brian]

Yeah. I mean, symmetry sounds pretty awesome.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay, we'll send it to you.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, Yeah.

[Brian]

I appreciate that. Thank you, guys. Maybe some of the imbalances and stuff, especially as a golfer. Always swinging.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Brian]

One way, you know, 100.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Keep in mind, if you do, if you're consistent with all the stuff, you know, go to be right. What'll happen is you'll get more of those good workouts and less of those quote unquote, bad workouts. But nothing guarantees a good workout every time there's some mystery involved.

[Brian]

Sometimes. Sometimes those workers are just literally just for the mental. Like, that's right. You just get through it and you're like, that's right. You got it in. Even though it didn't feel like the best.

[Sal DeStefano]

No.

[Adam Schaefer]

100. So you're on point, dude. You're doing good.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We'll send that.

[Adam Schaefer]

We'll send that over to you, brother.

[Sal DeStefano]

Thank you.

[Brian]

Awesome.

[Sal DeStefano]

You guys are best.

[Brian]

Thank you. Appreciate you.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yep.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's you know, it's funny is I the, the, the first time I hit 600 pound deadlift, which was a PR for me was two, one or two days after I finally got divorced, moved out of my house.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

And I go to work out and I pull a PR that was all stress hormone stress. That was all of that. Yeah. Because I had poor sleep, I'm obviously stressed out and I go and just grab the weight and just. And that was fueled by stress, dude.

[Justin Andrews]

Not ideal to repeat that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh no.

[Adam Schaefer]

Our bodies also don't work on this perfect 24 hour clock all the time. But we think of it like that. We go, oh, yesterday I did all these things and so then today I should feel amazing. And then you don't. But it's really like, well, it's not really, maybe it's been the last four or five days of things combined is what gave you the average of that workout. And or maybe there was something two days ago that was really impactful that now impact. So it doesn't always work in this like perfect 24 hour clock. And so if you're always like analyzing like well, what did I do? Because this wasn't good workout and I thought I did all the right things.

[Sal DeStefano]

More often than not. It'll help. Yeah, it'll work.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

But not always.

[Adam Schaefer]

And I think early on, like he's early before you, he's at a really good level where he's, he's, if you put 20 pounds of muscle on, you're doing a lot, you're doing a lot of right. A lot of all the major stuff and, and you want to be careful not to overanalyze everything. But because you may be doing something really great and you just because you didn't have a great workout and you thought you did all right things, you move something or change something that was perfect and ends up being worse.

[Doug]

Our next caller is Marnie from Maryland.

[Sal DeStefano]

Hi Marnie.

[Adam Schaefer]

How you doing? Marnie?

[Justin Andrews]

Hello. Hello.

[J]

Hey guys, how are you?

[Adam Schaefer]

Good.

[Sal DeStefano]

How can I help you? Good.

[J]

Well, first, thanks for taking my call and as usual love the show and really appreciate your content. So thank you for everything that you're doing. I'll dive right in. So I am 54, been working out pretty much my whole life, but really been lifting for about 15 years consistently. So I'm lifting probably about five or six days a week. I used to be a big cardio bunny. I ran a bunch of marathons. I, I have slowly over the past, I would say three to four years, let go of A lot of the cardio. And in fact, I would say about a year ago, I made a conscious effort just to be more active in my daily life. I sit at a desk all day and so just try to get more steps in and switch that out for the cardio. So now I'm just doing cardio two days a week. All that to be said also the same time that I realized really made a conscious effort to lessen the cardio, I was in the full throes of perimenopause and was seeing a lot of weight distribution. Not a lot, but like some weight distribution moving to, like, my middle area. And I just felt kind of out of sync and out of whack. I wasn't sure if it was because I'd been doing cardio for so long, and then I, you know, really curb that or if it was the hormones. I have since gone on hrt. I've been trying to eat less carbs, and I feel like I'm in a better place. And just as a gut check so that I would stop relying on the scale so much, I went and I got a DEXA scan to get my body comp. And I just got that back last week. And that was in good, a good place. I'm at 16% for body fat. So I feel really good about that. I just feel like I'm kind of in a plateau. I'm not really seeing the gains that I want to, particularly in my glutes and like, sort of my lower half. So I wanted to just get a check in with you guys, see what you would do from a nutrition standpoint and see if you had any programming ideas.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, I feel like.

[Adam Schaefer]

I feel like, you know what we're going to do?

[Sal DeStefano]

What do you think we're going to say?

[J]

You're going to say I'm not eating enough?

[Adam Schaefer]

Yep.

[Sal DeStefano]

Wait, why would we say that? What makes you say that? So, Marnie, how long? Because when you wrote in, it said you had wrote that your body fat was 11 to 13% and did it go up or was that a guess?

[J]

Oh, so I think I wrote in twice, actually. And so that first number was probably the machine at the gym that does your body fat.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Okay.

[J]

In body versus the DEXA, which was 16%. I was actually surprised because I've tracked my body fat through calipers and through calipers and. And through, like the. The machine at the gym for. For years. You know, I do it a couple times a year and it's always been around 13, 12, 13%. And then when I went and I got the Dexa, it came back at 16%. So I'm not sure if that's just a normal variation between the machines.

[Sal DeStefano]

It is. Yeah, it is. Doesn't matter either. So. So for a few years or for how many years have you. Have you walked around a ro. Around that 13 percentage?

[J]

I mean, I've had three kids, and I will say my body fat has probably always been between. 12 is probably my lowest, but I was never really more than like, 16.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay.

[Lorena]

Percent.

[J]

Yeah. For a long time.

[Sal DeStefano]

You ever get your bone density tested?

[J]

I just got it done with this DEXA scan and it was right in the middle.

[Lorena]

It was at 50%.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay, good. So, Marnie, you got it. You have to. You ready to hear what I'm going to say?

[J]

Yeah, I need to hear it because I know what you're going to say, and I just. I need to hear it and I need to get. I need to get over it. And I would love any. Any tips that you can give me on how to get over it. Like, I've been really trying to have a protein shake at night before bed, and it kills me. It kills me to do it, but I feel like it's the right thing to do before just trying to get.

[Adam Schaefer]

There before Sal goes, because I know he's going to have a bunch of great advice for you. It's. I'm so glad that we got you today because literally tomorrow Dr. Gabriel Lyon is coming in speaking about woman's hormones in our muscle mommy group. And so she's.

[J]

Yes, she's my idol. She's amazing from you guys. She is the only other podcast that I listen to.

[Adam Schaefer]

She's badass.

[Doug]

Muscle Mommy Movement.com, if you want to go.

[Adam Schaefer]

Thanks, Doug. Yeah. So Muscle Mommy movement dot com. I want you to get into the muscle mommy group. She talks tomorrow. We'll be in there. And after Sal gives you all the advice, I just want to tell you that we're going to hold your hand through the process in there, so we're going to help you through it.

[Sal DeStefano]

So here's how we can help. Okay. Because I think you know what we're going to say. The challenge is doing it.

[Justin Andrews]

Yep.

[Sal DeStefano]

It sounds like you have a relationship with this that is very challenging, which I personally understand. And the. The best thing you could do is to give it to someone else.

[Lorena]

Else.

[Sal DeStefano]

So the best thing you could do is not rely on yourself, because you know what that's going to look like. You've been doing that for a long time. So you have to give it to someone else and say, I'm just going to do what you're telling me for a while until I could break free from this very challenging relationship. But what you need to do, Marnie, is, is you ready. You need to gain body fat. You need to. I'm not even going to tell you to gain muscle. You need to gain body fat. And that'll change your life. It will change everything. Because you're tiptoeing around essential bodies, fat for a woman for a long time, that has profoundly negative effects on energy, health, hormones, everything.

[J]

So that's interesting because I've. I was able to conceive, like, three healthy kids. And so in my mind I was like, oh, I'm fine. Like, I never lost my menstruation and I never. And I'm sorry. So you're saying that there's other things that are markers that I might not be able to see?

[Sal DeStefano]

There's going to be, yes. And it's not just that. So your body's obviously very resilient.

[Adam Schaefer]

Right.

[Sal DeStefano]

You probably have very athletic genetics. So you probably have kind of mesomorph genetics where you can tolerate pushing the limit much more than other women. Most women would lose their period kind of doing what you did. So you have a very resilient body. But what'll happen if you gain body fat? If I get you up to 19%, 20% body fat, body fat, you're going to feel strong, you're going to have a lot of energy, you're going to feel very different. And you're not going to look bad, you're going to look great. You can see you've got good muscle.

[Adam Schaefer]

You're going to, you're going to build that ass that you're chasing right now. That's going to happen. You go up to 19%.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right.

[Adam Schaefer]

So it's. And you will feel better. And just because you feel okay right now and you've been able to do those things doesn't mean we're. We're optimal. And optimal will be higher than where you're currently at right now. But I, I do. I mean, I've trained so many clients like this, and I know how difficult it is. It's. It's not the not knowing. I feel like you already knew what you were supposed to do. It's literally doing that. I think Sal's 100% right. Like, this is one of those things where you outsource this, where it's just like, you know what? I'm going to trust my coach, I'm going to trust the process. I'm going to do a thing which I again, I think it's so serendipitous that you called in today. We have Dr. Gabriel Lyons speaking literally tomorrow about women's hormones to our women's group, to all these women that are trying to reverse diet. At least 80% of the women in there are reverse dieting, and that's what you need to do right now. So outsource this perfect timing, get in there, let us help you through this process and just watch what you feel like.

[Sal DeStefano]

There's nothing wrong with, especially for somebody like you, who seems to have a very resilient body. There's nothing wrong with dipping into the 15, 14% here and there. But to live in that percentage for as long as you have is not, not good. You want to probably live. And I'll guess for someone like you with kind of how your body responds, you could probably live in the 18, 19, 20% range and be great and be strong and feel good and then every once in a while, dip back down. But I wouldn't, even if you were my client, I wouldn't let you dip back down for a couple years. I would say, no, we're going to stay here for two years so that you can get kind of comfortable with what this feels like. Because what can also happen, Marnie, is you can be like, fine, I'll listen to you. I'll go up to 19%. As soon as I do, I'm going right back, back down, which is not going to help us.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

And this will serve you so well, especially now that you're in your. You're. You're in your early 50s, 60s, 70s. If you look at the data on longevity being having really low body fat and low body weight, even if you're fit and athletic, is actually a health risk for women. That's why I asked you about your bone density. In fact, I would recommend that you get a, a bone density test from your doctor, not a DEXA scan, like a legit one, just to make sure. Again, because you're, you seem to have those mesomorph genetics. You're probably okay, but I would just double check that. But I wouldn't weigh you, like, no more scale, no more. Don't study yourself in the mirror. Just listen to someone else and maybe pay attention to how strong your strength's gonna go through the roof. You're gonna, your strength is gonna explode on all your lifts. You're gonna have, like I said, a Lot of energy. But just give it to someone else and just say, just let go of it for a little while while and see what happens.

[J]

Okay, I'm ready.

[Sal DeStefano]

All right. All right, we'll send you that link.

[Adam Schaefer]

We're gonna see you in there.

[Sal DeStefano]

Get in there.

[J]

One quick question. Aside from the. The show with Dr. Lyon, you guys will send me a program or a nutrition. I sign up for a nutrition program. How do I know how to get my.

[Sal DeStefano]

But here's what we'll do. We'll send you the link and I'll also have a coach call you because you might be. You might be better suited for one on one online coaching where it's just you and them because Muscle Mommy's group coaching. You might be better suited to just one on one. So I'll, I'll make sure somebody gives you a call today as well.

[Adam Schaefer]

At the very least, get in that, get inside that group. Just because I think it's a perfect timing with Gabriel on it. And then like Sal saying, we'll have one of our girls call you and.

[Sal DeStefano]

See if they can get much more. It's just more individualized for you.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[J]

Okay. Thank you so much. Thank you.

[Sal DeStefano]

For Marnie. I can see the fear.

[J]

I think I knew and needed to hear from a third party and I.

[Sal DeStefano]

Could see the fear that you got. It's going to be good. It's going to be good. I promise you. And you're really courageous. I know what this feels like. So I appreciate you calling us.

[Adam Schaefer]

We got you. We got you. Okay.

[J]

All right. Appreciate it.

[Sal DeStefano]

Thank you.

[Justin Andrews]

All right, bye.

[Sal DeStefano]

I've. I've had female clients where it's like, what's my goal? Gain more muscle? No, we're going to gain body fat. Yeah, we have to gain body fat. That's what has to happen. She's been walking around, around.

[Justin Andrews]

She'll feel so.

[Adam Schaefer]

She's shredded, dude.

[Sal DeStefano]

And just living there.

[Adam Schaefer]

You see both bicep veins. She's like stage ready right now.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Always walking around stage right.

[Sal DeStefano]

Always. The fact that she was able to conceive.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, that's impressive.

[Sal DeStefano]

She's got a. She's got those genetics which, which it only means we gain body fat. She's going to be like, well, she's gonna blow her mind.

[Adam Schaefer]

I'm glad you said that. Strong. I'm glad you said that. Just. Okay, so the audience knows most of the time when someone's down in the 18, 19, body fat is female. We tell them to gain body. Body fat and they need to be up in the low 20s. She's probably somebody who can carry herself around 18, 19 and actually be really.

[Sal DeStefano]

She was able to conceive at 11, 12, 13.

[Adam Schaefer]

She'll be able to be a lower defined. Yeah. Oh, she'll still be. I'm telling you right now, what'll happen.

[Sal DeStefano]

She'll like the way she looks.

[Adam Schaefer]

She will. Because she's gonna, she's gonna, she's gonna. And if she does it or reverse diet correctly, good programming behind it, she will build a body that she's more excited about and she'll be in a healthier place.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right.

[Adam Schaefer]

So, I mean, so long as she, I think, lets it go, I think. Then why. I think it's so such good advice that it's like outsource this. Just you have to trust the process from somebody that you trust knows what they're doing. Allow us to take you there. And I think she'll be so happy. At 18, 19% body fat.

[Doug]

Our next caller is Derek from Florida.

[Adam Schaefer]

What's going on, Derek? What up, Derek? How we doing?

[Derek]

Hey, guys. How you been?

[Sal DeStefano]

Good, man. How you been?

[Adam Schaefer]

Let's hear this update. I'm curious.

[Sal DeStefano]

You look different, dude.

[Derek]

Yeah, I got real, real fat. I gained a lot of.

[Sal DeStefano]

No, bro. I see the guns, dude.

[Adam Schaefer]

Get out of here.

[Sal DeStefano]

What's going on? How can we help you?

[Derek]

So it's been about four and a half, five months since you guys gave me some advice before. Stop burning myself out, stop doing too much up my calories. All good things. You guys gave me a maps Anabolic. I went through that. Didn't really know where to go from there. So I ran it back on Anabolic Advanced and I'm in the middle of that now. I got three or four weeks left. I think I'm heading into the last phase now.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay.

[Derek]

I started TRT treatment. I kind of felt like enclomiphene wasn't really doing it for me. Started that back in July. So I'm at about 12 weeks now of treatment. And like I mentioned before, I took Adam's advice and reverse dieted myself up to 3200 calories per day. As a reminder, I'm 6:2, so a little bit bigger of a guy. My results, I. My weight did increase. I went from like 230, 35, 240 up to about 250. 250. My. My handheld body cat body fat calculator is showing that I've lost about 2% body fat, but I'm still over 20. So, you know, not really where I Want to be yet I'm sure my TRT had gave me some water retention, things like that to cause some of that weight gain. I have received compliments on, you know, as you mentioned, the guns and some body changes changes. But I, I feel I have a long way to go. So here's my question. I wanted to try to lose some of the excess fat. You know, I still carry a lot around my waist. My arms, my legs, my chest are all great, feeling pretty solid. But you know, it's been a fighting battle on my waist since my early 30s. It kind of makes me look more dad bod and not so much fit. I don't want to lose what I've built, but I also don't want to keep gaining a ton of weight. My goal isn't to be ridiculously ripped, but I'd like to be maybe like 15, 16 body fat at the end of the day and more at a healthy weight. Should I, should I do another one of your programs outside of anabolic? Should I, should I run that back and in doing that, should I start cutting back my calories now considering maybe I, I, I, I, I just the weight gain scares me, let's put it.

[Adam Schaefer]

That way, that way.

[Derek]

So leave it at that. And I'd love to hear your guys feedback.

[Sal DeStefano]

You're ready for a cut?

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. Yep.

[Sal DeStefano]

Easy.

[Adam Schaefer]

I want not dramatic. And I want you to toggle back and forth between mini cut, mini bulk so it looks like a 2,500 calorie down to 2,500 calories for like say two, three weeks and then give yourself a surplus or at least back up to maintenance for a week and then go back to three weeks in a cut and then do, and just keep toggling.

[Sal DeStefano]

So go three one. That's good.

[Adam Schaefer]

So three weeks in the cut at 2,500 calories. Calories and then go back to maintenance. 3,200 for one week and then go back and just keep toggling like that.

[Sal DeStefano]

And you're gonna get, you're gonna go nice and consistent down in body fat.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yes.

[Sal DeStefano]

And you, you probably won't lose muscle and feel pretty strong. Programming you could do symmetry I think would be a good follow up program now that you've done an anabolic and anabolic advanced. I'll send that to you. You're doing great, dude.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, you're doing real good. Yeah, you are, you're, you're in a good place too right now because I think before your calories were quite a bit lower for, especially for your activity inside Size. So now that you're up to a healthier place, you're still not hot. I would not consider these high calories for a guy your size. Like that's still on the lower end, but at least healthy. Good range enough that we can play with cutting a little bit. So. But I wouldn't cut you dramatically because you're. The fact you're on TRT most as long as you stay consistent with your training. And those are good whole food, good calories, good protein. Most of that is going to get partitioned to building muscle. And so we just want to cut a little bit and that'll help lead lean out, you know, for a couple weeks and then put you back to surplus. That'll hopefully keep youkeep the muscle or even build a little bit of muscle and that you're just kind of toggling back and forth.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, you'll drop, you'll probably drop 5% body fat in maybe four months. Five months over that process or less. Or less. But I'm giving you kind of a long range. So it's going to feel like a nice consistent workouts feel good. Especially when I go up to maintenance for that week. I'm feeling stronger and just nice consistent, getting leaner process.

[Adam Schaefer]

And I want you to, the only thing I want you really to measure right now is just use your waist circumference around your waist.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Just pay attention to that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

And if, and, and because you, you could potentially just weight stay very similar because you got a lot of good muscle and you might just keep building a little bit.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. By the way, reverse diet and you went down in 2% body fat. That's great, dude.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's incredible. You've done great and you're in a really good place right now.

[Sal DeStefano]

And.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. And I think the thing that will be encouraging is to just keep an eye on that waistline and see, see you probably hang on to all that muscle and just slowly drop your inches off your waist.

[Sal DeStefano]

Now here's way, here's a way you can mess this up. Okay. One way you can mess this up is in that week of maintenance. Instead of going up to maintenance, it's like, this is my week of cheat meals. Yeah. Don't do that. And then it goes like crazy and then it washes out the. The difference.

[Adam Schaefer]

Great point.

[Sal DeStefano]

And then it could turn into a like, you know, you kind of just maintaining because it's three weeks of a cut and one week of a massive surplus.

[Adam Schaefer]

So I'm so glad you said that. Don't take the what I'm saying is your maintenance or bulk is like a eat whatever the hell you want that week. Because she's right.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's literally controlled. It's still controlled. You're just up to. You're just going back up to 3200 calories.

[Derek]

Okay, one question on the follow up on the diet, part of it, the way I've been working it now is I've been averaging 3200 throughout the week. So I still have the cheat meal at the end of the week. I try to bring my calories back on that Saturday. And if there's a reason that we have a barbecue or kids out in the pool and you know, there's drinks around, I want to still be able to have some flexibility.

[Adam Schaefer]

So I've just.

[Brian]

Okay.

[Derek]

I just want to make sure that having those fluctuations.

[Brian]

Totally.

[Adam Schaefer]

I don't have to. Totally.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay, no, that's fine.

[Adam Schaefer]

Just, just know that now the average is 2500. So. So, so it's same, same strategy. And you still can have a little bit of that flexibility on those days. Totally. But in that three week quote unquote cut, your average needs to be 2500, which means maybe some of the days are 22 because you, you know, you have a day that's three out. So it needs to average about 2500 a day for, for that, those three weeks, even with that built in. And then on the now if you can, you know, try and make those extra days on the, the week where you're more at maintenance. But I understand that life doesn't always work out that way. So it's totally fine. Just make the average 2, 500 and then go back to maintenance on the 32.

[Sal DeStefano]

And just, you know, not to throw a wrench in this, but just because you don't have to do it this way. But in my experience, the easiest way to do the cuts is to cut the carbohydrates down during those weeks of the cut. It's just a more black and white kind of easy, simple. Especially if you're not trying to like, you know, macro count everything. It's like very easy kind of way to cut calories for some people. So that's just one approach. Doesn't have to be that way though.

[Derek]

Yeah, it's kind of what I was thinking. I don't really want to take away from my protein. And when I cut fats, I kind of feel like garbage.

[Sal DeStefano]

Same. Same here. So. So. Yep.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, dude, you're doing good.

[Lorena]

Awesome.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, awesome.

[Derek]

And symmetry. What kind of program Is that I haven't researched it much. Is that like a three day a week still or more symmetry?

[Sal DeStefano]

I believe is more. It's very unilateral, except for the first two weeks. It's five days a week, right, Doug?

[Adam Schaefer]

Is it five?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, yeah. Does that work for you?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Because you're following anabolic advance, which is. Which is more. More days a week than anabolic. So, yeah, no symmetry. You're gonna love symmetry.

[Adam Schaefer]

We'll send that over to you.

[Sal DeStefano]

And then after symmetry, go back to anabolic.

[Derek]

Okay, cool.

[Adam Schaefer]

And I want another update because I'm excited what happens right here. Yeah, dude, I think you'd be really happy.

[Sal DeStefano]

You're killing it.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yep.

[Derek]

Guys, I'm going to come back jacked as hell.

[Adam Schaefer]

You're going to love it. I like it.

[Sal DeStefano]

All right, man.

[Adam Schaefer]

All right, Derek.

[Derek]

All right, well, thank you, guys.

[Adam Schaefer]

Appreciate it. Take it easy. Later.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's so funny when people say dad bod, because the truth is when they do that data, it's not that women like dudes with a belly. Women like dudes with muscle who. Who aren't shredded is typically what it is.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

So it's like any since some guys around 18%, 19% isn't supposed to be.

[Justin Andrews]

Just a fat beer belly.

[Sal DeStefano]

You just look strong.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, you look strong. And yeah, you just look how you work.

[Adam Schaefer]

You look like the average person would look at you and go, oh, he works. He goes to the gym. Yeah, you don't look. You don't walk in. And people go, oh, he probably competes. Yeah, you go, oh, damn, he lifts weights. Like, that's to me what that looks like.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right. Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. We'll see you at Mind Pump meeting.

[Doug]

Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB super [e-mail] the RGB Super Bundle includes maps, anabolic maps, performance and maps aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs with detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos. The RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee and you can get it now, plus other valuable free [e-mail] if you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review on itunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is Mind Pump.

[Chris]

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[Gethard]

Gethard and I'm very excited to tell you about Beautiful Anonymous, a podcast where I talk to random people on the phone. I tweet out a phone number. Thousands of people try to call. Talk to one of them. They stay anonymous. I can't hang up. That's all the rules. I never know what's gonna happen. We get serious ones. I've talked with meth dealers on their way to prison. I've talked to people who survived mass shootings. Crazy funny ones. I talked to a guy with a goose laugh, somebody who dresses up as a pirate on the weekends. I never know what's gonna happen. It's a great show. Subscribe today. Beautiful Anonymous.