2715: 7 Lies That Destroy Men

Summary

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Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth

Episode 2715: 7 Lies That Destroy Men

Hosts: Sal Di Stefano, Adam Schafer, Justin Andrews, Doug Egge
Release Date: October 27, 2025

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Overview

This episode tackles the "7 Terrible Lies That Destroy Men," a heartfelt and data-driven discussion about pervasive myths sabotaging men's health, relationships, and fulfillment. The hosts—Sal, Adam, Justin, and Doug—unpack the social, neurological, and psychological consequences behind these commonly accepted beliefs, revealing how they harm men’s self-worth, motivation, intimacy, and personal growth. Their approach blends scientific evidence, personal reflection, and straight talk, making the conversation both challenging and encouraging for their primarily male audience.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

[03:04] Introduction: Lies Sold as Harmless or Positive

• Sal outlines how these destructive lies are dangerous precisely because they're normalized. Many are framed as harmless or even beneficial, making them harder to question:

  "They're damaging because you buy into the lie that they're good for you or that they're harmless." (Sal, 03:50)

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[04:38] Lie #1: “Pornography Is Harmless or No Big Deal”

• Mainstream attitudes downplay porn’s impact, but the hosts cite studies showing regular users (3-4x/week) exhibit:

  • Reduced gray matter in reward centers
  • Diminished frontal lobe activity ("hypofrontality")
  • Desensitization to natural stimuli, pushing users toward "more extreme" material

• Sal:

  "All of those point to a brain that has adapted to, for all intents and purposes—a drug." (Sal, 05:54)

• Damages:

  • Intimacy and real-life attraction (“destroys intimacy”; 06:09)
  • Motivation and self-improvement, especially in young men (encouraging passivity)

• Analogy: Adam compares porn’s effect to processed foods making one insensitive to the enjoyment of real whole foods ([06:27-07:04]), illustrating how both can warp natural desires.

• Sal:

  “The data shows that people with the most rewarding sex lives are people in their 60s who’ve been married forever, who don’t consume pornography or never have.” (Sal, 09:55)

• For teens, easy access to porn removes the “drive” to improve, socialize, and overcome challenges, “neutering” motivation to build confidence and pursue relationships ([11:25–14:10]).

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[14:16] Lie #2: “Video Games Are Just Harmless Fun”

• Adam: The innate drive to “conquer, build, and win” gets redirected into simulated achievements in gaming instead of real-life challenges, adventure, or risk ([14:16-15:56]).

• Video games are now engineered for addiction, with science behind keeping players hooked (16:34), a shift from the era when they were just fun diversions.

• Sal:

  “It’s replaced physical games... Physical games have far more value—not just the physicality but the organization required, the social aspect of it.” (17:32)

• Excessive gaming often replaces valuable experiences—team sports, problem-solving, real risk-taking—leading to stunted development and social unattractiveness ([18:37]).

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[20:25] Lie #3: “Buying Things (He Who Dies with the Most Toys) Makes You Happy”

• The fleeting joy of acquiring possessions, known as the “hedonistic treadmill,” is short-lived.

• Sal:

  "Buying things is a terrible use of money when it comes to happiness... Experiences are far more valuable." (21:27/21:38)

• Data shows the most lasting happiness comes from helping others rather than purchases ([21:37]).

• Adam:

  "If you're constantly just chasing or moving the goalpost, you'll spend most of your time unhappy." (23:38)

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[23:38] Lie #4: “A Man's Value Is Just How Much He Can Earn”

• The “provider” narrative traps men in cycles of overwork, sacrificing relationships and health for financial gain.

• Sal:

  “How much you earn is important. It's not the most important thing.” (24:45)

• Wealth built through personal effort is more valued (especially in long-term attraction) than inherited riches (Adam, 24:45).

• Regrets at the end of life center on missed relationships, not missed income ([25:36]).

• Adam:

  “It’s that you’ve worked hard enough, you’ve made enough money to... spend more time with your family... That’s what really matters." (26:16/27:36)

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[27:37] Lie #5: “Leading Is Toxic or Aggressive—Better to Be Passive”

• Cultural backlash against "toxic masculinity" leads some men to avoid leadership at home or in relationships.

• Most women still prefer men who lead (deciding on plans, providing structure).

• Sal highlights studies where men’s involvement (not just women’s) is pivotal in guiding family outcomes (e.g., faith conversion rates: 17% if mother, over 90% if father [28:22]).

• Sal:

  "Leading often means you lead by example... that requires responsibility.” (31:27)

• Adam:

  “You take the bullet... Rule number one of leadership: everything is your fault.” (30:29/30:34)

• Passivity at home is painted as destructive:

  “A lot of guys are happy coming home from work, sitting on the couch… avoiding things. Big mistake.” (31:27)

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[32:14] Lie #6: “Alpha Male, Social Media ‘False Masculinity’”

• Online culture exaggerates bravado, materialism, and "machismo" as the only ways to be masculine.

• Sal:

  “What they do is they look to this... They become these hyper aggressive, dysfunctional young men because they get this idea of masculinity that's just totally false.” (32:48)

• Adam:

  "It feeds the algorithm... you end up becoming that character because that's what feeds the algorithm." (32:48/33:36)

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[33:36] Lie #7: “It’s Better to Chase Many Women Than Devote to One”

• Contrary to “player” culture, the data clearly shows long-term devotion brings more happiness, health, and satisfaction.

• Sal:

  "Men that have access to all these women and chase them all the time or whatever, they fail to grow up, and they actually have not great outcomes.” (34:19)

• Adam:

  “If they're both equally successful... The guy who chooses to be dedicated to his family and his wife, the discipline that it takes garners your respect." (35:25)

• Most satisfying sex/love lives belong to people with few partners and decades of devotion. Casual “freedom” is often a disguise for lack of growth and meaningful connection ([36:45-38:14]).

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• Sal: "You take a 15 year old boy with a smartphone, [who has] access to more novelty of pornography... than any king had... a thousand years ago. Now a 15 year old boy has that on his phone. He's not going anywhere, I'm staying home. You've zapped that energy and that has long lasting effects." (13:32)

• Adam: "Who wants to play a video game that you never lose? Nobody. It's the challenge. And you ask yourself, why do we have that? Why do we enjoy that? It's meant for going out and growing and pursuing and trying." (16:12)

• Sal (on material wealth): "Helping other people... the happiness actually doesn't really fade. And then every time you think about it for the rest of your life, you get the same happiness." (21:37)

• Adam: "Rule number one of leadership, everything is your fault." (30:29)

• Adam: "The guy who chooses to be dedicated to his family and his wife, the discipline that it takes garners your respect." (35:25)

• Sal: (on false freedoms) "You're actually in bondage. You're in bondage to obesity, chronic disease, and illness. So it's a false freedom." (38:14)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 03:04 – Introduction to the seven lies
• 04:38 – Pornography is “harmless”
• 14:16 – Video games fulfill, then sap, ambition
• 20:25 – Materialism and the pursuit of happiness
• 23:38 – Men’s value equated with income
• 27:37 – Passivity and reluctance to lead
• 32:14 – Social media alpha-male myths
• 33:36 – Chasing many women vs. committed partnership
• 36:45 – Fulfillment and meaning from devotion
• 38:14 – Real vs. false "freedom" in personal choices

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Final Thoughts

The hosts challenge listeners to reflect critically on behaviors or beliefs that are often celebrated—or at least accepted—by society, but which data and lived experience show to be deeply damaging. They encourage a more authentic, responsible, and growth-oriented masculinity rooted in real relationships, purposeful challenge, generosity, and self-mastery.

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For more, follow Mind Pump on Instagram: @mindpumpmedia and visit mindpumppodcast.com.

Transcript

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[Sal DeStefano]

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[Justin Andrews]

With your hosts Sal Destefano, Adam Schafer and Justin Andrews, you just found the.

[Sal DeStefano]

Most downloaded fitness, health and entertainment podcast. This is mind pump. Today's episode 7 Terrible Lies that Destroy Men. This is all based on data and of course, our own experience. By the way, this episode is brought to you by Deep Clean Coaching. If you go to deepcleancoaching.com mindpump, you can get free training and free resources to help quit the terrible habit of pornography. It's incredibly destructive. Lots of data shows how destructive it is on many, many aspects, including relationships, self esteem, even sexual performance. Again, if you go to deepcleancoaching.com mindpump you'll get some free training to help you quit this terrible habit. Also, this month we have a sale. Maps GLP1 is half off. This is a workout program with diet advice, supplement Advice and lifestyle advice for people who are using ozempic, semaglutide, tirzepatide, wegovy. If you're using a GLP1 and you want to maximize the fat loss and keep the muscle, this is the program for you. Go check it out. Go to mapsglp1.com, use the code GLP50 for 50% off. All right, real quick.

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[Sal DeStefano]

It's a dangerous world out there. There's a lot of things that could damage you, harm you, or destroy you, but there are some things that are more damaging than others, particularly because they're sold to you as accepted lies. We're going to talk about seven of those lies that are destroying men. Let's get into it.

[Adam Schafer]

I don't remember when we, we did something kind of like this. I know a couple of the things that we're going to talk about were in that, but it definitely stirred up some controversy, so it'll be interesting. I'm curious to see if the. The tone of the audience or our culture right now. Climate's changed, is changing a little bit since that. Because I feel like.

[Sal DeStefano]

I think so.

[Adam Schafer]

A lot's happened since that, that podcast.

[Sal DeStefano]

I think so.

[Adam Schafer]

And we'll find out, I guess, shortly.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. What makes the ones we're going to talk about today so dangerous is that they're sold as harmless, you know, not, you know, not a big deal.

[Adam Schafer]

Harmless or even positive.

[Sal DeStefano]

Some of them are. Yeah. Sold to as positive. So they're damaging because you, you buy into the lie that they're good for you or that they're harmless. So there are a lot of things out there that, like, if I were to say, like, number one, hard drugs. Right. I think everybody, like, duh, like, everybody knows hard drugs will destroy you. But. But the ones we're going to talk about are oftentimes overlooked or even sold to us as good, which makes them incredibly damaging. So I'll start with the first one, which is pornography. And the lie around pornography is, it's not a big deal. Nobody's getting hurt. Like, what's the big deal? Like, you're looking at some videos or some pictures, like, how is this gonna really harm me? Now, I could pull up, I have data, and today I think more men than ever are aware of some of the damaging effects of pornography. So I'll go over what the, what the data says. Okay. Porn users have reduced gray matter volume in reward related areas. They have altered functional connectivity and hypofrontality, meaning the frontal lobe of the brain isn't as active as it could be. They're hyperreactive to cues. So these are off. These are typically like porn related cues. So their brains kind of get wired for that. And then they have a dopamine reward system that is damaged and desensitized. So let's talk about those for a second. So all of those point to a brain that has adapted to, for all intents and purposes. A drug. Yeah, a drug. And so you perceive reward differently and you're desensitized to things that you normally would be sensitized to. And this is incredibly destructive for relationships. And it also changes how you are around sex and sexual arousal. And I think a lot of men are starting to realize this destroys intimacy.

[Podcast Guest or Co-host]

I mean it really puts damage at least in between that connection that you have with your partner. It's just one of those things. It's, it's elusive. It's something that you don't really notice right away. May act as a stimulant in that direction. Yeah. Can really take a hold of you.

[Adam Schafer]

Is it the same thing or similar to what processed foods does to you in comparison to eating whole foods? Like, and it's so. Which is why if you eat a highly processed diet, you may notice things like fruit. Bland.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right.

[Adam Schafer]

And you don't enjoy water. You can't drink. You don't like drinking it because it's so bland. Versus somebody who is strictly on a whole food diet. Biting into a juicy apple or peach is like one of the most enjoyable things you possibly can. Is it very. What's going on a, on a neurological level, is it similar? What's happening?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, very much so. And even, you know, as they track even pornography trends start to, they're over time have become more and more and more extreme. And the term they'll use is hardcore because the normal consumer is becoming desensitized to the normal stuff.

[Podcast Guest or Co-host]

Novelty.

[Adam Schafer]

And why, why brought it to that comparison? Because if, if I don't know how aware you are of that with your own personal habits or behaviors. But you know, I've had enough times in my life where I've had my diet way out of whack and in check. And in times where there's a little bit of processed food versus a lot of processed food. And it's interesting how much your palate changes and how much you can have these like ultra processed, sweet, greasy foods. When you slowly adapt to it, you go, hand me a Twinkie dipped in grease and I would, I'll be on the toilet throw or be just too much. I couldn't handle that. But, you know, if I ate fast food once a day for long enough, and then I ate fast food twice a day long enough, then that stuff, it's, it's interesting how much your palate starts to adapt and move and then you only crave that really greasy, nasty, highly processed types of foods. And so it seems like it's almost similar. Like that too is like maybe it starts off with just a little bit of like innocent pornography here and there, and then it's like, oh, that doesn't really work like it used to work. And so I need a little more hardcore or a little more novel. Seems like it's a very similar.

[Sal DeStefano]

By the way, this data is on what they considered regular porn users, which is three to four times a week. We know the average pornography user uses three to four times a week. So a lot of people are like, well, this is only damaging if you're like an addict. And it's like, you know, getting the way of work and stuff like that. Like, no, the average user is having a lot of these, these types of issues. And it changes how you perceive things. It encourages objectifying yourself and other bodies. And there are mirror neurons in the brain that are activated when you're observing certain things that then are probably going to change your behaviors. And now the evidence of this is how you'll see men, this is quite common now, who have erectile dysfunction when they're with their partner because it's not as stimulating as pornography. Or reports of men who ask their partners to do things that they see in pornography because the mirror neurons are activated. This voyeurism is one of them, because you're watching people do things and you're literally wiring your brain to want to watch rather than be involved. So it's incredibly damaging and it's damaging spiritually as well. You are looking at sex and through this one narrow thing, which is stimulant, you know, stimulating and maybe pleasure, although I would say it's even. It's. So it's, it's beyond pleasure and it's completely negating all the other, you know, benefits that come from a healthy sex life. And then, and then the data shows that people with the Most rewarding sex lives are people in their 60s who've been married forever, who don't consume pornography or never have. So the data is very clear on this.

[Adam Schafer]

And there's such a positive and rewarding side to this that I think is the better thing to focus on than just purely the avoiding or abstaining from the pornography thing. Similar to, to what I would focus on with a client who I'm trying to get to eat whole foods is that, man, you know how cool it is that when you abstain from all these processed foods and avoid eating that way and you eat all whole foods, you know how enjoyable a bowl of grapes or a peach becomes, right. The same thing is when you abstain from things like pornography and doing stuff like that. You do that and then, oh my God, sex with your partner becomes incredible. And so there's a reward at the end of that too. So it's not just purely, you know, sacrificing, watching that, that addictive stuff. It's also, you're rewarded for that by being able to do it. I think that's something more to focus on the positive of that than making people feel like, oh, you just shouldn't do this because it's bad.

[Sal DeStefano]

Here's where it's like the destructive forces of this are above and beyond what we're talking about. So, you know, we're talking about and it kind of sounds like we're talking about men in relationships, right? So you're kind of a grown man relationship, it damages relationship with your spouse, whatever. But when you look at young users, like teenage boys, it zaps a young man's drive to go out and try to put his crap together, to try to clean himself up a little bit. So when you're a young man, your drive to pursue and speak to the opposite sex or just attract another mate.

[Adam Schafer]

Is to you clean yourself up, you get stronger, you get successful. These are the things that you want to do to attract a partner.

[Sal DeStefano]

You're a 15 year old boy and.

[Adam Schafer]

You'Ve got this drive built into our.

[Sal DeStefano]

DNA to go outside and you got to go talk to a girl. And talking to a girl is not nothing like in order to talk to a girl, she's not going to pay attention to you.

[Podcast Guest or Co-host]

Lots of barriers there.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, you got to, you got to get over your fear, you're going to get rejected. So you got to deal with that. You got to present yourself as confident but not a jerk. You got to clean yourself up a little bit. Like, you know, women's like, bar is higher and so a young man has to go out and learn how to clean himself up a little bit and build confidence in order to do this. Young men, and the data shows this quite clearly, do not approach girls anymore. And they don't go out anymore. In fact, at most they'll approach a girl online. So what it's done is it's neutered men, it's neutered teenage men. And then they become, and then they go into their 20s and they're like, I don't know what to do. In fact, I'd rather be at home on this comfortable thing that's not scary. So it's actually a driver that teaches men how to kind of. Now it's not the only thing. There's lots of things that teach a man to grow up, but I'm, I mean, I know this, right? Growing up in the 90s, pornography was not very accessible. You had to like get out of your room, you had to like dress a particular way. You couldn't look like an idiot. You had to present yourself, learn how to tell a joke, be charismatic, you know, approach, you know, get the fear. Okay, I got to get a, you know, get some, you know, build up a little confidence. Let's go up there and make this happen.

[Podcast Guest or Co-host]

No, you're going to get rejected a.

[Sal DeStefano]

Few times and it's like this is a part of what takes a boy from part of, it's not all of it, but part of what makes a boy a man. You take a 15 year old boy with a smartphone, access to more novelty of pornography or imaging that no king had. A thousand years ago, nobody who ruled the kingdom had that kind of novelty. Now a 15 year old boy has that on his phone. He's not going anywhere, I'm staying home. You've zapped that energy and that has long lasting effects. And we're seeing this now with these generations as they're growing up with pornography. They don't go out, they don't pursue, they don't talk. Because that's been taken from them.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, especially leading into the next one, you're going to point out, because that's the other place that men get the challenge.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right.

[Adam Schafer]

That is built into us again, this thing that's built into us to want to level up, to conquer, to get better, to win, to do this, that we have built in us is now getting satisfied by video games.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right.

[Adam Schafer]

So I'm getting neutered by the constant dopamine hits of pornography that sedates me sexually and eliminates the drive to go out and try and find a real mate. And then that still, that inner drive that makes me want to compete and. And build and conquer and win is getting fulfilled in Call of Duty, where I'm doing that in a video game. So.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right.

[Adam Schafer]

It's the other thing.

[Sal DeStefano]

And the lie there.

[Podcast Guest or Co-host]

Challenges.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. And the lie there is. It's just fun. Like, what's the big deal? You're just having fun again, nobody's getting hurt type of deal. But you're absolutely right, Adam. In a. In a young man, the desire to. And when you say conquer, we're not talking about, like, you're gonna go out and, like, start a war. It's like you go out and you find challenges and adventures. Like, there's a drive that you have as a young man to go find adventures, to find challenges or take risk, take chances, and you're gonna fail sometimes. Get myself back up, try again. Like, these are very important lessons, and this is an important driver that turns a young man into a man that can lead a family.

[Adam Schafer]

What it looked like in the 80s was you go with your buddies, you get your BMX bike, you build the dirt ra camp, you put. You put one of your friends underneath it, you see if you can clear him. You know what I'm saying? Sometimes you make it, sometimes you don't. Like, you just. If you can simulate something on a video game, now, that's far more engaging than that is. And so it's, It's.

[Sal DeStefano]

Why go outside? It saps us of that. Because now instead of going out and pursuing real world challenges, real risk to it. No, you're just beating level 35.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

And you're just a simulation, but it.

[Adam Schafer]

Still gives you that artificial hit.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right.

[Adam Schafer]

That makes you think that you are. Because. And anybody who's played in those games, conquering or leveling up or winning does give you a rush drive. And it has its own addictive properties to it.

[Sal DeStefano]

Who wants to play a video game that you never lose? You win no matter what, right? Nobody. It's the challenge. And you ask yourself, why do we have that? Why do we enjoy that? It's meant for going out and growing and pursuing and trying. And so what's happened is we've. We've neutered. We become neutered because instead we're expressing that energy on complicated, challenging video games.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, and not to mention, they've evolved so much like processed foods, these video games. The science that has gone into it when we were kids, because we Played video games too. And I feel so blessed that we grew up in the 80s when the video game market was. I mean they were just figuring the science on how can they put it on the screen when we were kids and that was such a huge accomplishment. Nobody was talking about then how do we make these kids addicted to it? To where they don't want to put it down, where that's the conversation, the engineering that goes into gaming. Now the amount of science and money and research is how do we get these kids to not want to put it down and want to keep going and want to play for hours. That wasn't even part of the thought process in the 80s when Nintendo was hitting the market. It was like can we make this thing happen?

[Podcast Guest or Co-host]

You got to start all the way over, right. And that would really piss you off. And they eliminated that because they understood that this would keep them playing much longer if they could just respawn.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yes, that's right, 100%. It's replaced physical games which. Physical games have far more value. Not just the physicality, but the organization required the social aspect of it. And when you're playing physical games outside, it tends to turn into lots of different games and lots of different adventures. It's literally zapped us of this. And you know this because if you know a guy that plays a lot of video games, he doesn't do much else. He's at home playing video games all the time. By the way. You know what's funny? As we go through these, we're listing characteristics that are turn offs to women in fact when women do because they have this innate like, okay, like a guy that plays a lot of video games in his mid-20s, not attractive. In fact they've listed that as one of the least attractive qualities or hobbies. So yeah, you know, and this, this is the one by the way that got us all the heat last time. A lot of guys get really mad talking about this but it is literally zapping this drive that you have to go challenge yourself because you're just trying to beat different levels.

[Podcast Guest or Co-host]

Yeah, and I'm usually again this is a bit controversial but I'm advocating for more risky type sports to be involved in. And again there's so much science out there now we're over scienced and we're, we're are definitely padded in our approach which has like safety is definitely an element that we kind of have to reconcile with. It's like, you know, what is, what is our limitation? What are we comfortable with? You know, with our kids especially but this is something that parents really need to consider. Like, what kind of experience are you going to present with your child? Because if you're going to now remove, like all, like a risky sport like football, for instance, because of some, you know, studies about CTE or things that are scary about it, you know, you're robbing them of so much of an experience that is lifelong and, and it lasts in every element of life when it comes to teamwork, when it comes to working with difficult people, when it comes to overcoming immediate, difficult challenges. So just to put that out there is like, you know, a challenge. Really consider what it is that you're removing and you're replacing.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. What are you trading it with?

[Podcast Guest or Co-host]

What are you trading?

[Adam Schafer]

And I 100 think that I would rather my kid play a dangerous sport like football or boxing than be playing video games for four hours a night, for sure, all day, every day, because of what the long term effects of that does on that, the motivation of that kid and his brain and what we're talking about right now, I'd rather roll the dice with those two sports, which I know have gotten a lot of publicity around how dangerous they can be related to cte. That I think is a much better risk than thinking that, oh, I'll just let him play video games because that's safe. He can't get hurt that way. Way worse.

[Sal DeStefano]

Right? Right. Next up is the lie that he who dies with more toys wins or that buying things will make you happy. The data on this is really interesting. They've done lots of studies on this. In fact, I pulled up some data on just this right here. And how happy does buying things actually make you? Well, first off, it's called so short. It's called hedonistic adaptation or the hedonistic treadmill. This is where you get this initial joy from buying something, but it quickly fades as you adapt to that thing that you bought. And then if you buy that same thing again, there's zero. In other words, you got to level up. You buy like, you know, you know, brand new shoes or a cool watch, and you get that spike in happiness, and then it fades very quickly. If you bought that exact same watch or shoes, there's nothing anymore. It's, it's now adapted. Studies on extreme situations, lottery winners, for example, show that they're no happier 18 months later than before. Lottery is a lot like you're winning millions of dollars.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

A year and a half later, you're right back to where you were before. So buying things is a terrible use of Money. When it comes to happiness, you know what the data shows?

[Podcast Guest or Co-host]

Experience.

[Sal DeStefano]

Experiences are far more valuable. So instead of buying something, buying an experience, what's better than buying an experience is buying something that, that makes you grow as a person or education or somebody else for. That's the number one. Yeah, number one. ROI for using your money to make yourself happier is to use your money to help someone else. What they find in the data with that is when you take money and let's say you donate it to a charity or to a family or someone to really help them, you get happy. The happiness actually doesn't really fade. And then every time you think about it for the rest of your life, you get the same happiness. So every time you think about, oh, 10 years ago, man, I gave money to my cousin who was really having a tough time, or to that charity, or I supported that single mom, you get that same spike in happiness. So when people say, like, why do you buy things? And ultimately it boils down to, well, it's going to make me happier. The best ROI is actually in helping other people. The worst ROI is in buying things.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. I don't think this one is singled out to men. I think this has plagued our entire society totally. I think our entire society has been built on this. This is what makes the economy go around and for it to grow.

[Sal DeStefano]

They're marketed to that. This is happy.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. And we're also taught that it's good, it's good. We want to keep growing gdp. The only way we keep growing GDP is keep buying the new shirts, the new shoes, the new watches, the new clothes, the new cars. And that's how it grows. That's how the economy goes better. That's how we all win. And so we've been sold that that's the way to live. And so I don't, I don't think this is just isolated to men at all. I think this is just our entire society. And I think at one point you come to this realization and hopefully you're lucky enough to, to come to that realization younger or sooner in your life because you quickly find how unfulfilling or how short lived those things are. And it's like, man, if you, if you're constantly just chasing or moving the goalpost, you'll spend most of your time unhappy and it will never be fulfilled from that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. And that's connected to the next one, which is your value as a man is really just how much you can earn. And it's very connected to the first one, which is Consuming. And now. Now I understand why this lie exists. And it's because men are often perceived as the breadwinners. Part of what a woman will find attractive in a man is your ability to provide. So I get that. But when you get caught up in this lie, you end up sacrificing more important things for how much you can earn. And so you see a lot of men sacrificing their families, sacrificing their relationships in pursuit of a bigger paycheck. And so they're trying to get this bigger paycheck, meanwhile not spending time with their children or destroying the relationship with their wife because they constantly sacrifice. The relationship becomes a selfish pursuit, a completely selfish pursuit. And I bought this one hook, line and sinker for years as a young man and paid dearly for this one. And now I realize just how much of a lie it is. I mean, how much you earn is important. It's not the most important thing.

[Adam Schafer]

It's more about that you can provide for your family and not so much the dollar amount. They did this study, and 90% of women said they prefer a man that has created his own wealth over one that has inherited. And so if it's. If it was just about a dollar amount, then they wouldn't care. It would be like, oh, well, you know, my husband. My husband inherited 10 million, and your husband maybe only made 1 million, so he's. Wait, no, they would prefer the man that created his wealth. And I think that because that's more closely related to how we evolved. And I think it's closely related to being able to hunt for the family. And so your ability to hunt provide enough to feed our kids, to feed me, to feed you, and we have enough that we don't have to worry about it come winter time. That's what I'm looking for. More so than, you know, can you kill enough deer to feed an entire army that doesn't serve us anymore? And I think that's where this gets.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, when they're inflated, some of the best. Some of the most interesting interviews on stuff like this is. Are, like, deathbed interviews. Well, they'll interview, you know, men and women when they're, you know, getting ready to pass away, essentially. And when they ask them, like, do you have any regrets or do you wish you didn't? Nobody says, Nobody says, yeah, I wish I made more money. Everybody's like, oh, I wish I spent more time with my kids. I wish I devoted more time to this relationship. I wish I treated this person a little bit differently. So this is not your value. This is part of something that you can bring value to your family, but this is not your value. And if you worship this, it's going to destroy you.

[Adam Schafer]

You know, I'm glad you said that part, though, because I was just talking to Katrina about this and we talk a lot about when the time comes to, you know, talking to Max about money and finances and, you know, kind of like my philosophy around it. I also don't want to demonize his idea of wanting to be successful, because I do like the idea of him reaching a level to being able to make enough money to create freedom for himself, to spend the time that he wants to more with his family. And I think that'll be one of the most important things and lessons that I want to be able to teach him. And it'll be me teaching him with him. Like us doing something, say in the middle of the week on a day when most men would probably be at work from nine to five, and him and I fishing or sitting on a boat or playing at a beach or doing something, and him asking me about money and being like, this is what it's about right here is the fact that your dad is sitting with you right now at 2 o' clock on a Thursday, and most dads are having to work a 9 to 5 job just to provide for the family. That's where this is the part of making more money. What really matters is the value of success, if you can. Exactly. To me, that is, it's not the dollar amount in the bank account or the how many the cars or how big the house is. It's that you've worked hard enough, you've made enough money to where you've created enough leverage that allows you to spend more time with your family, the loved ones and the ones that you really care about.

[Sal DeStefano]

Next up, there's a lie. And I think this is just the result that has come from, you know, kind of like this toxic masculinity or where men believe that leading is being too aggressive. And so what's happened is a lot of young men have become passive. They've become passive like, I don't know, you. You go and decide, you do this and you do that. And you know what's funny? When you look at polls, even today, even today in a modern world, when you look at polls, 80 plus percent of women prefer when the man leads. They prefer when the man helps or does pick the restaurant or pays or opens the door. You know, all these like little gestures of kind of leading, and you look at the data on how a family turns out when the man does something versus when the wife or mom does something. And it's pretty remarkable. One of my favorite studies is on faith. You know, faith is a, that's like a life changing thing. And when you look at if a mother becomes, and this is on the Christian faith, if a mother is the first person to become a Christian, the odds or the chances that the whole family follows is 17%. If the father becomes a Christian, the odds or the chances are over 90%. Just showing just how important leading is for the man. It's also just accepting responsibility. So as a, as a father looking at your home, because a lot of guys are passive at home. They're like leaders at work. Then they come home and it's like, I don't know, honey, you decide you do this.

[Adam Schafer]

Where do you think that. So I, this was. Of all the things you, you had on the list, this is the hardest one for me to talk about because there's.

[Podcast Guest or Co-host]

I don't think, I don't resonate with.

[Adam Schafer]

It doesn't resonate with me at all. Is this happening?

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, you know.

[Adam Schafer]

No, I'm serious.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, you know men like this.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, I do.

[Podcast Guest or Co-host]

I've seen it.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. But, but that's my point. It's like, it's so far from like, I can't even wrap my brain around what is causing it. That makes, makes a man or a boy so passive like that. Is that society putting that pressure? Is that what they're being taught in school? Well, I think they're doing responsibility. Like what, what is it that makes these young men or young boys turn into men that are so passive like that? Of all the ones, I had nothing to contribute to this one, because I don't, I don't know where to point. I don't know if I'm talking to my son or a teenage boy, what to tell him to watch out for these pitfalls so you don't end up being a wuss, you know?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

You've been in a. Being so passive.

[Sal DeStefano]

By the way, this doesn't mean leading isn't like a tyrannical, like, like a good leader. We've all worked for a good leader and we've all worked for a bad leader. What's a bad leader? You don't want to follow tyrannical. You don't want to. That boss that you hate, like, that's a terrible leader. Who's a good leader? It's that boss or that manager you had. Man, you're like I will. Like, I love them. I love working for them. They encourage me.

[Adam Schafer]

You take the bullet. If you're a true rule number one of leadership, everything is your fault.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right.

[Adam Schafer]

So you, you fall on the sword, you take the first bullet. That's what, like, what leading is. And, you know, chivalry in that. Like, I, I don't know where, where that died or what, what happened.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, what's funny is that the. One of the first, you know, everybody knows the story of Adam and Eve. And when I was learning about this, it's funny because what was pointed out to me was Adam in that story. We all know that Eve takes the apple, right? She's convinced to eat the apple, she bites it, she gives it to Adam, and the question is, well, when she took the apple, where was Adam? He was right there. He was right there. And then what happens after they both eat the apple? First off, they're trying to hide from God, which is hilarious. But then God shows up and who does he go to? He goes to Adam and he says, hey, he didn't go to her, by the way. He knows what happened. He's God. He goes to Adam. Hey, Adam, what happened? And what does Adam say?

[Adam Schafer]

Blames it on her.

[Sal DeStefano]

He goes, oh. His response is passive. Oh, that weak move that woman you gave me.

[Jeff Bridges]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

She made me eat it. Like, it's an example of that passivity and not taking responsibility. By the way, leading often means you lead by example, right? So if you want your family to exercise, you be the one to start it. You want your family to eat healthy, you be the one. You want your family to be on their phones. Listen, you be the one. You want them to be on less tv, you be the one. And that requires responsibility. I think a lot of guys are happy coming home from work, sitting on the couch and, you know, armchair avoiding things. Yeah, yeah. Just like, yeah, you know, you handle things or whatever. And that's a big mistake. Big mistake. Next up is the alpha male false masculinity that we see on social media. I think this is a, this is a crazy knee jerk reaction to totally what that is. The passivity.

[Adam Schafer]

It's the birth of the opposite side over correction.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. And it's the false masculinity. It's the, like, bravado. They're like, I look at me, you know, this kind of cocky machismo. Look what I can buy. Look what I have a chick for.

[Adam Schafer]

Every car I drive.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. And sometimes you get young men who are thirsty, they're compensating. Super, super. And a lot of young men are, like, thirsting for some kind of like. Like, you know, maybe they didn't have a father or whatever. They're thirsting for this. And so what they do is they look to this. They become these hyper aggressive, dysfunctional young men because they get this idea of masculinity that's just totally false. It's not real.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, I think. I think. I think social media has exacerbated this right here. Right? Because to your point, it's. It's more viral. It feeds the algorithm that I even think these alpha bro guys that you're referring to, I even believe that maybe when they first started making content, maybe they were in a good place or came from the right place or was speaking truth or a good message. But I think the more aggressive, the crazier, the more extreme, the more eyes, more attention. And then we saw that kind of drift, right? So you end up becoming that character because that's what feeds the algorithm. And then now this person represents this, you know, ugly side of the. The alpha side. It's like not the healthy masculinity, but the. And then it looks more like the toxic masculinity, which the other side is screaming on the other side.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right. And then this ties into the next one, which is the lie that it's way better to chase a lot of women. It's way better to have a bunch of women and have access to a bunch of women than it is to dedicate and devote yourself to just one. By the way, the data on this is so clear, it's crazy, because a lot of us believe these lies as young men, and we don't even look at the actual data. When men are married and devoted to one woman, they're healthier, they live longer, they're less depressed, and they're happier. Yeah, they're happier. Men that have access to all these women and chase them all the time or whatever, they fail to grow up, and they actually have not great outcomes. What's my favorite example? This is Dan Bilzerian. Dan Bilzerian had all this access.

[Adam Schafer]

Look at him come from circle.

[Sal DeStefano]

And he has come back and said.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, but I tell you what, though. I mean, talk about. His palette has changed so much, dude, that, you know, even if he's. He's.

[Sal DeStefano]

He's in a bad situation.

[Adam Schafer]

Very tough. Very, very tough after that. I mean, he's been conditioned the other way for so long that even if his heart's pulling in another direction or even if his mind logically is telling him like this is, is actually the better way. Actually doing that becomes very, you know, it's interesting.

[Podcast Guest or Co-host]

How can he trust too?

[Sal DeStefano]

Right? Right. You know, how can he put his.

[Podcast Guest or Co-host]

Faith in, you know, that one person?

[Sal DeStefano]

And you know what's interesting about this too is I think men have this innate quality where we want to follow and respect a particular man. And if I were to paint the picture of a guy who just chased lots of women, or a man, both of them equally successful and a man who was very devoted and respectful and dedicated to his wife, naturally men would respect the man that was devoted to his wife.

[Adam Schafer]

Of course.

[Sal DeStefano]

How interesting is that?

[Adam Schafer]

Well, it's actually not. It's actually pretty obvious to me, because that's harder. Yeah, that takes discipline. That takes work.

[Sal DeStefano]

It takes you growing up.

[Adam Schafer]

The other one is that if you, if they're both equally successful, everything's the same. Yeah. If they're both exactly the same. They, they both. Okay, let's say they're both incredibly fit, good looking and uber wealthy. The option list for both of them with women are huge, right? It's huge. The, the pool of women they can pull from. And the guy who chooses to be dedicated to his family and his wife, the discipline that it takes garners your respect. Right. That is way more respectful than the guy who has got a different girl or time like that's at his disposal all the time. That's not why he swipes. Right. He's on to the next one. That's not a big deal. That's less impressive to me than the man who could have all that. And then it does. It's like when you meet, just like when you meet a guy who is like a badass fighter and you watch him back down in a fight versus whooping someone's ass. The fact that, that you goes and.

[Podcast Guest or Co-host]

Buys him a drink.

[Adam Schafer]

Exactly. When you meet somebody and we've been around men like this that are black belts and then just. Or UFC fighters and you know, would just destroy a dude and the dude's mouthing off and there's a party, there's a party that wants to see that guy get his ass kicked, but you end up having so much more respect for the, for that watching that guy carry himself and go buy him a drink or apologize and you're like, oh my God. The, the fact that he could just whoop this dude and he doesn't is what makes it cooler than it is. If he were to actually just very, very, very, very similar.

[Sal DeStefano]

It is. And again on the data on this is interesting. I said this earlier. The most satisfying sex lives are reported by couples who've been married for decades, who are out of their. What we consider prime, who also haven't had a lot of partners. The best ones are reported by people who've only been with each other. Now, you. You mentioned how your palate has changed. I'll use an analogy. You know, if you grew up eating all kinds of processed food and garbage all the time, and then you decide to eat healthy, it's much more difficult because you've developed this relationship with food where what you valued is the pleasure of eating this food. You've only valued food up until a certain point for its hedonistic value. That's the value. You don't have a complete understanding of the value of food. Food provides so many other values, not just the pleasure. Pleasure is a good thing, but it's not the only thing. Same thing with having intimacy with a woman. The pleasure is good, but it's not the only thing that you get. But if that's all you value. Yeah. You miss out on all the other stuff.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. That's why I think for Dan is it'll be. It's such a challenge.

[Sal DeStefano]

Exactly.

[Adam Schafer]

Is that it's great that that's where his mind is. He's thinking. But, boy, it's. It's a lot of work. And to use your food analogy, I mean, I'm. I'm a healthy fit nerd, but I still have that pool because for years and years and years as a kid ate candy, ate processed food, had all that stuff like that. So it still is in the back of your mind. Even though you know that this is the path, you still get pulled that way. It's hard to break old, old behaviors.

[Sal DeStefano]

And then there's this other. This lie around it, which is, well, you're. You're. You know, it's like eating healthy. Like, well, I'm free. I get to eat whatever I want. You're all restricted. You have to eat healthy. You're actually in bondage. You're in bondage to obesity, chronic disease, and illness. So you're actually. It's a false freedom. So it's like I'm free to hook up with that whatever woman I want. You're actually not. You're missing out on things that you have no idea about. Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. We'll see you at mindpumpmedia.

[Justin Andrews]

Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance. Check out our discounted RGB super [e-mail] the RGB Super Bundle includes Maps, Anabolic Maps, Performance and Maps Aesthetic nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos. The RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee and you can get it now. Plus other valuable free [e-mail] if you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review on itunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is Mind Pump.

[Chris Gethard]

AI agents are everywhere, automating tasks and making decisions at machine speed. But agents make mistakes. Just one rogue agent can do big damage before you even notice. Rubrik Agent Cloud is the only platform that helps you monitor agents, set guardrails and rewind mistakes so you can unleash agents, not risk. Accelerate your AI [e-mail] that's R U B R-I K.com hi, I'm Chris Gethard.

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