Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth

Episode 2731: The Ultimate Muscle Building Diet (Without Getting Fat)

Release Date: November 19, 2025
Hosts: Sal Di Stefano, Adam Schafer, Justin Andrews, Doug Egge

Episode Overview

This episode of Mind Pump focuses on the real science and practical strategies behind building muscle without excessive fat gain. The hosts dive into why most people overcomplicate the “bulking” process, common mistakes, how to set up an effective muscle-building diet, and how to troubleshoot plateaus. The latter half features listener call-ins about body recomposition, stubborn plateaus, smart use of AI in fitness, and healthy approaches to exercise during different life stages. Adam also opens up about his recent struggle with Kratom withdrawal, providing raw insights into addiction and recovery.

Main Discussion: The Ultimate Muscle Building Diet

The Problem With Traditional Bulking

• Most People Overeat When Trying to Gain Muscle
  • “People mess up—they try to build muscle and either gain body fat or nothing at all. We’re breaking it down for you.” —Justin Andrews [04:46]
  • Sal recounts eating “a bucket of chicken for lunch” during a past bulking phase, only to find most gains were fat, not muscle [06:00].
• The Scale Isn't Everything
  • “You jump up ten pounds, do a body fat test and realize eight of it was fat. And then you justify it—‘I'll just carve off that fat’—but when you cut, the muscle goes with it.” —Justin [05:53]

The Slow Nature of Muscle Gain

• “Muscle building is a slow process. A pound a week is very fast—four pounds a month would be crazy, and even pro bodybuilders are pumped if they get 10 pounds in a year.” —Sal [11:33]
• “Five pounds of lean mass can be almost half an inch on your arms. It’s a lot.” —Justin [12:38]

Setting Up A Muscle Building Diet

1. Calorie Surplus—But Not Too Much

• Aim for 500–1000 Calories Above Maintenance:
  • “You have to eat in a surplus, but not as much extra as you think. A 500–1000-calorie surplus is ideal for most people.” —Sal [08:36]
  • “If you go much more, you add body fat. Much less, you get nowhere.” —Justin [10:20]

2. Protein Intake is Paramount

• Target 1–1.5+ grams protein per pound of goal body weight:
  • “Every client I’ve ever trained who struggled with putting on muscle missed on the protein. You want at least one to one and a half grams per pound—more is fine, because you’ll inevitably have days you fall short.” —Sal [14:16]
  • Tip: Set your target high—if you aim for 300g and only hit 220g, that’s still solid.

3. Carbs Are Not the Enemy

• “Watching people try to build muscle on a low carb diet is futile. You can do it, sure, but it’s just so much harder. Carbs are protein-sparing, help you perform better, and are easier to eat in volume.” —Sal [15:17]
• “Pick carbs you digest easily: rice, potatoes, quinoa. Bread and pasta aren’t as great if they cause bloating or slow your digestive process.” —Sal [16:59]
• Most clients do better avoiding gluten-containing carbs during a bulk, but experiment to see your tolerance [18:18].

4. Use Whole Foods First, Shakes as Insurance

• “Whole foods are just better—people do better with them, feel better. Use protein shakes as insurance at the end of the day if you fall short. Don’t rely on them for every meal.” —Justin [20:37]
• “I did a whole contest prep with shakes and bars. Looked fine, but on whole foods I felt and looked noticeably better. There’s something there.” —Sal [21:57]

5. Meal Timing & Prep: Structure Matters

• Meal prep and time management are essential when targeting high calorie/high protein intake.
  • “Start your day with a high protein meal, manage your meals, and don’t get behind. That’s why bodybuilders are so regimented—it keeps you on track.” —Justin [22:17]

Superfoods for Muscle Building

• Suggested "Muscle Building Superfoods":
  • All meats (including chicken and fish)
  • Cooked vegetables
  • Berries
  • Eggs
  • Rice and potatoes

Notable Quotes & Moments

“The most compliments on my arms I ever got was when I was the leanest, not when I was the biggest.”
—Sal Di Stefano [12:56]

“You want a protein target so high that if you fall short, you’re still hitting what you need.”
—Justin Andrews [14:08]

“Trying to bulk on keto is so, so difficult. It’s not just about calories—it’s about digestibility and ease.”
—Sal Di Stefano [16:28]

Deep Dive: Adam’s Raw Kratom Withdrawal Story

[32:29–57:46]
Adam shares in detail his experience with quitting Kratom after years of use. He describes the insidious way the supplement crept into his routines under the guise of being “natural,” how physical dependence took hold, and how the withdrawal process was more brutal than he imagined.

• "I haven't slept in five days. I'm through the worst, but not all the way through. You feel like your skeleton is trying to escape your body." —Adam [41:08]
• On suffering as part of recovery:

  "When I was praying about it, the thing that came to me was—you need to suffer. I can't justify a slow taper. I need to feel all of it so I remember." —Adam [42:17]

• On the risks of banning kratom:

  “California just banned it, but now the stronger stuff is still on shelves. That’s going to push thousands of addicts to the streets for fentanyl.” —Adam [47:05]

Adam’s full account emphasizes how easy it is, even for disciplined fitness professionals, to fall into addiction and the necessity of support and suffering for meaningful recovery.

Listener Q&A Highlights

Ariel from Florida — "How Can I Get Leaner and Combat Back Tightness?"

Timestamps: [63:58–79:56]

• Summary: Ariel is highly active but feeling “puffy” instead of lean, plus she has ongoing mid-back tightness.
• Advice:
  • Consider cutting gluten for 30 days and see if inflammation/“puffiness” subsides.
  • Add daily mobility: “Every hour, get up and do 3–5 minutes of mobility—cat/cow, 90/90s, full-breath breathing.”
  • Ensure micronutrient coverage: Add a multivitamin, vitamin D, and consider a small calorie increase.
  • “You’re very active and probably undereating for your activity level—bump protein, calories, and watch your intensity.”

Austin from Indiana — "Down 65 Pounds But Stuck — What Now?"

Timestamps: [81:44–88:40]

• Summary: Austin lost weight by slashing calories and working out constantly, but now he’s plateaued and stuck at very low calories (1500–2000 kcal).
• Advice:
  • “You need to reverse diet. Increase calories gradually (300–400 at a time) and switch to a strength program (e.g., MAPS Anabolic).”
  • “Take your calories slowly up to your maintenance (around 3200), focusing on strength gains. Your body will adapt and let go of more fat as you rebuild metabolism and add muscle.”
  • “Don’t obsess over the scale! Use waist and strength as progress markers.”

Stacey from Kentucky — "How Do I Progress and Beat Menopausal Belly?"

Timestamps: [89:24–95:41]

• Summary: Stacey has started a 2–3 day/week strength training plan and wants to know when to increase weights and if she should add cardio for her “menopausal belly.”
• Advice:
  • Increase weights when current reps are too easy; don’t fear adding weight even if you can't hit all reps.
  • Don’t over-focus on intense aerobic work—walking and strength training are ideal.
  • Most important: build a routine you enjoy and can maintain for life!

Kevin from Alberta — "Should I Use ChatGPT as My Trainer?"

Timestamps: [96:09–107:06]

• Summary: Kevin, an experienced athlete, has been using ChatGPT for programming and seeks feedback.
• Advice:
  • AI is great as an info aggregator and planner for highly motivated people, but lacks the relationship and psychological "coach" elements.
  • "Humans outperform AI in real coaching, accountability, and knowing when to push or pull back."
  • “Right now, AI is a yes-man. It won’t challenge unhealthy tendencies or know when you really need something different than programmed.”
  • Best-suited as a hybrid: AI for data crunching + human coach for strategy/regulation.

Actionable Muscle-Building Diet Takeaways

• Eat 500–1000 calories above maintenance—not more.
• Focus on high protein (1–1.5g/lb target body weight).
• Use easily digestible carbs, avoid gluten/bloating foods if tracking inflammation.
• Rely on whole foods; use shakes as a last-resort.
• Prep meals and plan ahead or you’ll fall short on intake.
• Track progress by strength and measurements, not just weight.
• Progress is slow—even small muscle gains make a big visual difference.

Noteworthy Mind Pump Insights & Quotes

• On Body Transformation:
  “Chasing a number is arbitrary—you could change your look by gaining just a couple pounds of muscle and losing a few pounds of fat.”

• On Gluten:
  “Most of my clients—even those not celiac—do better cutting gluten while bulking.”

• On Recovery & Suffering:
  “We underestimate how much the suffering we go through in the process reinforces the lesson.”

Listener Segments Timestamps

• [63:58] Ariel from Florida — Activity & Bloat
• [81:44] Austin from Indiana — Plateau after major weight loss
• [89:24] Stacey from Kentucky — Menopausal training adjustments
• [96:09] Kevin from Alberta — AI coaching vs. human trainers

Final Thoughts

For Building Muscle Without Extra Fat Gain:

• Slow, steady surplus
• High and consistent protein
• Carbs for fuel, opt for easy digestion
• Whole foods first and plan your meals
• Track strength and measurements (not just the scale)

Quality of Life:

• Don’t rely solely on the scale for validation.
• Prioritize recovery, mobility, and mental health.
• Seek relationships—in coaching and in life—that challenge you, not just please you.

Find more at: mindpumppodcast.com • @mindpumpmedia