2734: What's Better for Results, a Home Gym or Going to the Gym?

Summary

Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth

Episode 2734: What's Better for Results, a Home Gym or Going to the Gym?
Hosts: Sal Di Stefano, Adam Schafer, Justin Andrews, Doug Egge
Originally aired: November 22, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the ongoing debate: Are home gyms or public/commercial gyms better for fitness results? The Mind Pump team explores the pros and cons of both, how life phases influence your gym preference, and the culture and psychology around working out. As always, the conversation mixes science-backed insight, personal experience, and plenty of humor. The intro covers the full topic, and then the hosts transition to live Q&A with callers—each presenting real-world fitness dilemmas and getting direct, actionable coaching.

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Main Discussion: Home Gym vs. Public Gym (03:14–29:43)

Introduction of the Topic

• Adam: "If you're contemplating whether you should invest in a home gym or just pay a gym membership, we're going to help put you in the right direction. Let's do this." (03:14)
• Sal: Opens up about how the hosts’ perspectives on home vs. commercial gyms have changed over the years.

Culture & Consistency

• Sal: “Consistency wins.” (03:44)
• Discusses how life’s phases—being single versus having kids and family obligations—affect gym choice.
• The commercial gym offers social motivation and exposure to both mentors and mentees in the fitness journey.
• The home gym gives maximum flexibility, privacy, and the chance to "train unconventionally."

Notable quote:

“In my 20s, being in the gym was my life... But now, with more responsibilities, the convenience of ... permission to train unconventionally ... something is better than nothing. I would never go drive to the gym for three to four sets of squats.” — Sal (04:39)

Home Gym Benefits for Parents

• Kids witness healthy habits modeled at home:
  • Adam: "You want to instill [fitness]... the best thing you can do is have them be around it. Not force them, just have them see you." (07:23)
  • Sal: “At 5 and 6 years old, all his brain knows is dad is gone [when he goes to the gym].” (08:23)

Commercial Gym: Social Energy & Equipment Variety

• Unique machines, novelty, and the motivating energy of others.
• Experiencing old-school or rare gym equipment.
• Justin: “Sparks that novelty.” (10:36)

Practical Considerations

• Space & Cost: Home gym equipment (especially new foldable racks) solves the space and budget issue.
  • Justin: “I am not parking a car outside for a gym inside my garage... but with foldable racks, it’s doable.” (14:15)
• Home gym payments can now be structured like memberships, making investment easier.

Gym Membership Selection Criteria

• Adam: "There’s three things to consider: convenience, cleanliness, culture. If it’s 30 mins away, you won’t go. If it’s gross, you won’t go. Culture is huge—bigger than the equipment." (12:04)
• The “right” gym is deeply personal and may change through life’s seasons.

Key Insight: Success is Contextual

“In the perfect world, if you can afford to have both [home gym and commercial gym], that’s the best. Because you’ll need different things at different times.” — Sal (13:25)

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Gym Culture, Intimidation, and Consistency (16:04–20:21)

• Serious "hardcore" gyms have intimidating vibes at first but drive better consistency.
  • Adam: “Odds of being consistent are way higher in a hardcore gym... Get over that hump and the culture will keep you coming back.” (16:04)
• 'Comfort' or 'chain' gyms typically have bad culture for consistency; higher turnover, less inspiration.

“The member that shows up consistently... is a profit loss [for the gym]. They use up equipment, pay a fee, and do nothing else.” — Adam (19:12)

CrossFit Case Study

• Thrived, not for programming or equipment, but for community.
  • Adam: “It was the culture. Why do people keep going to CrossFit? The people, the community.” (20:15)

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Home Gym vs. Gym: What Does the Data Say? (20:21–21:24)

• Sal: “After 3–6 months, people who start with a home gym, 50–70% maintain it; in a regular gym, it's 10–37%.”
• Convenience and flexibility win out.
• Pressure to have "long" workouts disappears; shorter, more frequent home sessions create sustainability.

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Tangents: Social Media, Filming, & Life Lessons (21:34–31:27)

The discussion veers into gym culture pet peeves and the impact of social media:

• Adam’s “gym ick”: People filming themselves for social media (21:34), though Sal makes a case for technique analysis.
• The dark side of constant content creation—comparing streaming one’s life to "drinking seawater" (28:20) and the risk of the algorithm dictating self-worth.

“So much of who they are is the algorithm... success comes from saying certain things—and it’s a feedback loop. Before you know it, you wake up a millionaire, lost. Not you.” — Adam (27:01)

Insightful analogies about values, what we "worship," and keeping sight of real priorities.

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Live Callers & Real-World Fitness Solutions

[Caller 1: Kara from Arkansas – Endurance, CrossFit, and a “Sleeper's Body”] (59:44–71:38)

• History: Lost 100 lbs through running and low calorie, transitioned to CrossFit and trying to gain muscle, now struggling with body composition and eating.
• Main struggle: Unsure how to adjust nutrition and training to look “like she works out” and overcome “softness.”

Key advice:

• Move away from extremes; focus on healthy relationship with nutrition & exercise.
• Recommendation: Focus on 3x/week traditional strength training, pause all cardio temporarily, reverse diet to mid-2000 calories.
• Notable moment:

  “You can’t hate yourself into better health. You’ve got to take what I’m saying seriously or you’ll keep ping-ponging back and forth.” — Adam (62:58)

• She accepts the offer for Mind Pump coaching.

[Caller 2: Garrett from Michigan – Active Job, Calories, & Muscle Building] (72:00–86:32)

• 22, intense manual labor job, history of drastic bulks and cuts, striving for muscle and health without extremes.
• Main Issue: Plateaued at 2000 calories; unsure how to fuel for gains.

Key advice:

• Bump calories to 2,700, focus on strength gains (13–15% body fat ideal), use simple, whole foods (beef and rice bowls, etc.), MAPS Power Lift program recommended.
• Emphasis on patience and long-term muscle maturity.
• Classic exchange:

  “The strongest correlate to building muscle is strength. If you get stronger, you're going to build muscle—and it’s going to be like this for years.” — Adam (76:30)

[Caller 3: Laurent from Montreal – Maps 15 Modifications & Arm Development] (88:46–98:43)

• Busy window cleaner, limited time, prefers MAPS 15. Worried about short rest periods and arm lagging.
• Main issue: Can he build strength with only 1-min rest? How to boost arm gains?

Key advice:

• If time allows, lengthen rest between sets for heavier lifts (up to 3 mins).
• Add targeted arm volume two to three times a week by reducing a set on a strong lift and adding biceps/triceps work.
• Split arm exercises across the week using variations in elbow position (helps with muscle development variety).

[Caller 4: Cheryl from California – Endurance vs. Muscle Building for Women] (99:15–110:33)

• 54, loves endurance hiking & paddleboarding, wants muscle gain in winter & to "reverse diet."
• Main Issue: How to periodize eating and training for both goals, especially with evidence of modest muscle gain despite efforts.

Key advice:

• Recognize “seasons": build muscle/strength in winter, prioritize performance for endurance in summer.
  • MAPS Anabolic in winter; switch to MAPS 15/minimal during summer adventures.
• Nutrition: Focus on fueling the activity—keep protein high, carbs higher before/after endurance, use easy portable protein (jerky, essential amino acids) during hikes. Don't stress modest muscle fluctuation as it’s adaptive, not pathological.
• Philosophical insight:

  “Fuel the performance. The rest will follow… If you focus on the mirror and scale, it’ll take away from what you enjoy.” — Adam (108:50)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Something is better than nothing—always.” — Sal (04:39)
• “The best way to instill fitness in your kids is not to teach or force, but to let them see you living it.” — Adam (07:23)
• “Variety and novelty keep enthusiasm alive—sometimes the best thing is just a new gym and new equipment.” — Justin (10:36)
• “The data shows: After 6 months, home gym people 50–70% consistent. Gym gym? 10–37%. That big of a difference.” — Sal (20:47)
• “Getting over the initial intimidation hump in a hardcore gym will serve you for life.” — Adam (16:04)
• “You can’t hate yourself into better health.” — Adam (62:58)
• “The strongest correlate to building muscle is strength... and it’s going to be like this for a while for you, for years now.” — Adam (76:30)
• “Fuel the activity... focus on performance, the rest will follow.” — Adam (108:50)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 03:14: Main topic starts: “Home Gym vs. the Gym: What’s better for results?”
• 04:39: Sal's transition in preference as life evolved.
• 07:23–08:44: Modeling exercise for kids; family shifts perspective.
• 10:36: Joy and novelty in varied gym equipment.
• 12:04: Three factors for choosing a commercial gym.
• 13:25–14:20: Hybrid gym/home approach; space-saving home racks.
• 16:04: Hardcore gym culture, intimidation, and consistency.
• 18:48–20:15: CrossFit’s success via culture, not programming.
• 20:21: Data: Home gym vs. commercial for consistency.
• 21:34: Pet peeves—filming and social media in the gym.
• 62:58: “You can’t hate yourself into better health.” (Coaching call with Kara)
• 76:30: Calories, strength, and building muscle—advice for Garrett.
• 88:46: MAPS 15 modifications for busy professionals.
• 108:50: “Fuel the performance, the rest will follow.” (Advice to Cheryl)

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Takeaways

• The “Best” Gym is Contextual: Depends on life phase, family obligations, social needs, and personal temperament.
• Consistency is King: Most important predictor for results, and is often better with convenience (home gym).
• Culture (Not Equipment) Keeps You Coming Back: The right culture—motivation, support, inspiration—matters more than gear.
• Be Flexible and Honest about Your Needs: You might need a blend of both home and commercial at times.
• Adapt Your Training as Life Changes: Don’t get stuck in one “right” way, whether it’s endurance seasons or muscle seasons.
• Fuel for the Activity and Performance: Don’t obsess on aesthetics; let function and fun drive your fitness journey.

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This episode is highly engaging for both deep thinkers and pragmatic fitness fans, blending personal stories, data, and witty banter. Listeners walk away with an empowered, nuanced view of how to structure their fitness life for maximum results—and with permission to be flexible!

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Find More:

• Mind Pump Podcast: Website
• Instagram: @mindpumpmedia

For training resources: mapsfitnessproducts.com (with Black Friday and other discounts mentioned in the episode)

Transcript

[Sal DeStefano]

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[Adam Schafer]

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[Adam Schafer]

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind Pump Mind Pump with your hosts.

[Sal DeStefano]

Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer and Justin Andrews.

[Adam Schafer]

You just found the most downloaded fitness, health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump. In today's episode, live callers called in and we coached them on air. But this was after the intro. Today's intro is 56 minutes long. This is where we talk about fitness and fat loss and current events. We have a good time. By the way, if you want to be on an episode like this, submit your question to mplivecaller.com now. This episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is PRX Performance, the best home gym equipment you'll find anywhere. By the way, you can make payments on the equipment. So it's like a gym membership, except it's your gym. Go check them out. Go to prxperformance.com mindpump on that link. You'll get 5% off. This episode is also brought to you by Legion. Today. We talked about their egg protein, but they have many supplements that are great for athletic performance, muscle gain and fat loss. Go to buylegion.com that's B-Y-L-I-O-N.com mindpump. Use the code mindpump. You can buy one, get one 50% off plus free gift cards on orders. $99 or more. Also, Black Friday right now for us. Every maps, workout program, every program bundle, every guide, every mod, everything. 60% off. It's the biggest sale of the year. Every purchase also enters you into a contest. Two people are going to get a one week free stay at the Mind Pump Park City House plus $1,000 towards travel. Fifteen people are going to get personal training by our coaches and 10 people are going to get a chance to hang out here at Mind Pump all day and hang out with us and our fitness director. If you're interested in the 60% off and possibly winning one of those things, go to maps fitnessproducts.com, use the code Black Friday.

[Justin Andrews]

You guys, real quick, I just want to mention we got a sale. It's up to 25% off equipment and select apparel on our store right now. There'll be $5 items as well. Sale be from November 20th through November 30th. Go check it out at mindpumpstore.com Home.

[Adam Schafer]

Gym versus the gym. What's better for results? What's going to give you better gains, better fat loss? If you're contemplating whether or not you should invest in a home gym or just pay a gym membership, we're going to help put you in the right direction. Let's do this.

[Sal DeStefano]

I feel like if you've been listening long enough, you guys converted me on this one. Yeah, Yeah, I was.

[Justin Andrews]

We've been working on you.

[Sal DeStefano]

I mean, I staked my flag in the ground early on this debate, you know, because I know both you guys were.

[Justin Andrews]

Consistency wins. Adam.

[Sal DeStefano]

I know. Like I doesn't. No way. Energy in the gym, being around people. And I still, that vibe is. I still like that. Right. And I'm sure you both, I think.

[Justin Andrews]

Sure you guys still enjoy one thing to be around.

[Sal DeStefano]

I still and. But I think it has more to do for me at least now. At least what I think it's just a phase of my life that I'm at. I think in, I think in my 20 being 25 or so, I would still, I would still stake that flag of like being in the gym when it's just all I'm responsible for is myself. You know, I go to work and I work out was like most of my life. But being a father, having more responsibilities at home, obviously a big responsibility here. The convenience of and then also the permission to train unconventionally. Meaning I never did that in my 20s. Like, I never. I would never do one exercise.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Like it was it waste of time. Yeah, it was an hour hard workout and if it wasn't hard enough, it was a waste. And so I approached fitness that way and I don't approach fitness that way at all anymore. It's like something is better than nothing always. And in fact, man, just three, four sets of some good squats is. Goes a long ways. And I would never go drive to the gym for three to four sets of squats.

[Adam Schafer]

There's definitely a pro and con that I think is important to discuss here because there's an atmosphere in a home gym or a culture in a home gym, which would refer to the atmosphere. And then there's a culture in the gym. And they're different, right? They're different. Like in your home gym, the culture is very much. It's your music.

[Justin Andrews]

What do you make of it?

[Adam Schafer]

On your own, you're doing your thing, you're kind of solo in the gym. If there's a good culture in the gym, there's much more of a social component. Okay. Which is not bad. Like, that could be great. It could be great to go to a gym, see people you recognize, get encouraged, feel motivated, support other people. By the way, this is for a long term fitness journey. If you want to have success long term, there's a lot of components to that, but two important components that I don't think we talk about enough on the podcast is having someone that's more mature than you on the fitness journey and then having someone that's also less mature than you. So having someone that kind of coaches you indirectly, somebody you look up to, and then having someone that you help out, both of those will help you on your fitness journey. And being in a good gym culture provides that in your home gym, you don't get it. But on the flip side, in your home gym, you don't need to worry about anything but yourself. And you can play whatever music you want and you can wear whatever clothes you want.

[Justin Andrews]

I guess you could get that on some level with your kids being around and looking up to you and like just, you know, interrupting your workout. And I mean, that. That has been something that I've noticed has been a. A positive, a big positive.

[Sal DeStefano]

I think that's a huge positive. If you're trying to install that in your kids in the future, you're not. You're not making your boys follow you to the gym. No, right. When they're teenage boys and they're just.

[Justin Andrews]

Showing them the energy, they're just.

[Adam Schafer]

They just see you love it.

[Sal DeStefano]

They just see it. They just go see dad, they see Justin go grab a kettlebell and go. And it's like, that's true. So much is said without saying anything.

[Adam Schafer]

That's right.

[Justin Andrews]

Totally.

[Adam Schafer]

No, no, that's totally true.

[Justin Andrews]

But yeah, you're right. I mean in terms of like the commercial gym or where you're going to get like the atmosphere and the vibe of like, you know, these other young guys, these other young people and then also the old, you know, the people have been there forever that are still in good shape and they're very inspiring on that level as well. You can absorb.

[Adam Schafer]

There's also this for a parent because you're mentioning the parent part. First of all, what you guys are saying is so true. If you value health and fitness and you want like Adam saying, instill it into your children or encourage them, the best thing you could do is have them be around it. Not teach them, not force them, but rather they're just around it.

[Sal DeStefano]

I can't tell you how many times in the last five years I have gone in the garage and trained either by myself or with Katrina and Matt had Max in there on playing with his play doh or whatever like that for him, not for me. Like I did not want to lift. I don't feel like doing anything.

[Adam Schafer]

I'm do this as an example.

[Sal DeStefano]

Let's just go in there. Let's just go in there. I'll do some curls and pull ups and mess around and like just, I just want him to see that, not even saying anything. I'm not over there. Hey, try this son. Nothing letting him play with his play doh. But he just sees mom and dad doing that consistently. Yeah, I would rob him of that if I went to the gym at that young of an age. At 5 and 6 years old, all his brain is dad is gone.

[Adam Schafer]

That's right.

[Sal DeStefano]

He doesn't go, oh, dad's off working on his health and fitness. Like that won't come together till maybe he's 10, 12, 15 and then you can understand like, oh, my dad consistently goes to gym. So I'm not shaming any dads that go to gyms. So please don't take it that way. But I didn't, I had no idea how much I would value having the gym at my, in my house. So just that my son could see me go out in the garage.

[Adam Schafer]

My 5 year old now asks if he can exercise. We didn't tell him, he just wants to to try it out. Now on the flip side, as a parent, sometimes going in your garage is not, you can't be alone. You don't get a break because you go in the garage and the kids follow you. And sometimes you need a break. If you're a stay at home mom and you want that hour you want to work out. And I get it. Working out with your kids around you is awesome. But you might want a couple days a week. Like, I got to get out of here. And if I go in the garage, I'm not out of here because I know what's going to happen. Timmy's going to come in and ask for something or the baby's going to need something or something's going to happen. So there's also value. I can also see value in getting out of the house and not getting interrupted. Putting your headphones on or. Or being in that culture and working out. Then, you know, equipment is another one. Now it's a myth that you need a lot of equipment. That's actually not true at all. In fact, if I wanted to develop a elite level physique. Okay, so I'm talking like a level that other people would even. Don't even care about. You give me a squat rack, dumbbells, barbell, adjustable bench, and I got it. That's it. And that's. That's it. I don't need anything else. Yeah. That being said, having a variety of equipment, especially if you're consistent with your workouts and your fitness, it offers a lot of variety and it's fun. So it can definitely be like one of my favorite things to do when I travel, when I get the opportunity. I don't get the opportunity as often these days, but one of my favorite things to do is to work out in different gyms precisely because I find it fun. I love going into gyms and seeing. And it's pretty rare now that I see equipment that I haven't seen before. It actually happened recently. I went to that gym in Santa Cruz and they have so much equipment there, and there were some pieces of equipment that I've never really used before. And it was just so fun to go use them.

[Justin Andrews]

Sparks, that novelty.

[Adam Schafer]

It's great. And then there's other times when I'll go to a gym. Like that time we filmed at that gym that you worked out at when you were kid.

[Sal DeStefano]

Nostalgia.

[Adam Schafer]

They had the old equipment. I don't even see anymore. The old school pullover or the chain. You know, the. The selectorized equipment with a chain, not the belt. Like the old school stuff. They don't bike chains.

[Sal DeStefano]

One is the craziest because I've only seen that there. I've never seen that ever.

[Adam Schafer]

Which one?

[Sal DeStefano]

Remember the, like, it looks like three stories.

[Adam Schafer]

The hammer strength squat. The big.

[Sal DeStefano]

The one that's like three stories tall. Yeah, dude, like you Got to look that up, Doug, and pull that up for the. So the.

[Adam Schafer]

So didn't get too popular because it took too much.

[Sal DeStefano]

I've never seen that anywhere in my life.

[Adam Schafer]

That was the only second time I'd ever seen it.

[Sal DeStefano]

Had you. Had you seen that before? That I had never seen a piece of.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Walk upstairs to get to the top of it.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. And then you lay down on your back.

[Adam Schafer]

It's hammer strength, right?

[Sal DeStefano]

I don't think hammer strength. I don't think it's.

[Adam Schafer]

I think hammer strength has.

[Sal DeStefano]

I think it's before hammer strength. Look at, look up a tall, tall.

[Adam Schafer]

Squat machine or tall leg machine, tall.

[Sal DeStefano]

Lying down squat machine, something like that. It's like.

[Adam Schafer]

But some of this equipment you don't find anymore because like, like, like we're talking about the bike chain type selectorized because it was so dangerous. Like, you got there, you lose. But the feel of it is belt and cable machines suck compared to ones with totally. They just feel so great. So you got that, you got that element as well with the, you know, the variety of equipment. And then if you value, you know, things that you might not have in your house, like a sauna, cold dip, that kind of stuff, you know, that's also incredibly valuable.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

In a gym. So there's a lot of things to weigh out. But I will say this, like working out, working a long way, working out at home, you can create your own culture. Going into a gym, you're stepping into a culture. So when you get a gym membership, I tell people this, it's very important. There's three things to consider when you get a gym membership. One is convenience, because the data shows that's the biggest block. So if you could find a great gym, but if it's 30 minutes away, it's unlikely you'll use it. Number two is cleanliness. That will get people to not want to go somewhere. But the third, the close. Third very close, is culture. So more important than equipment, more important than how much stuff's in there. All that stuff, like, if you go in there and it's got a vibe that you really dig, that is going to contribute much more to pulling you back. That's huge. Yes. Than anything.

[Sal DeStefano]

Do you think. Do you think where. Where you're at in your life really matters more on?

[Adam Schafer]

Totally.

[Sal DeStefano]

On what you choose here.

[Adam Schafer]

Totally. I go through different seasons. Like, there was a long season of me liking working out on my own in my garage, and I still enjoy it. So it's not like I don't like it, but Now I'm in a season of getting out and going into gyms and stuff like that.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, you know, it's funny now it's like I'm drawn more to like the commercial gym setting and like the novelty of that, but it really is just novelty and I go right back to the home gym.

[Sal DeStefano]

I mean, like my base, I mean, the perfect world is if you can, if you can afford to have both. Because I think having. So the data shows having, just having that. Because I still have my gym membership. So I mean, last week I was in a. Inside of a gym and then other times I'll just go inside the garage. So, you know, for me it's like, okay, when I, when one, like my son's not around at that time, if he's at school, it's like he's not seeing me work out anyways. Oh, I have more time. I want to get after it. I want more stuff, go to the gym. Other Times, oh, it's 5:00 in the afternoon and he is home from school and he's there. It's like, I need to do something. Oh, let's just open up the garage and do that. I think the thing that is most amazing now, which we didn't have, say a decade ago at least, was like the foldable racks like prx. You're, you're a. Because that would have been. Okay. You, obviously, everybody knows that space is an issue. Oh, yeah, I'm not, I am not parking a car out of the garage for a gym inside my garage. That ain't happening. That ain't happening.

[Adam Schafer]

That's something I would do.

[Sal DeStefano]

No, you 100% do you do that. You, you have this gym, this full gym inside your garage and your poor car sits outside like, hell, no, that is not happening in my house. But you can have the gym with pr. I mean, you fold in, it's literally what, six inches? That all of that comes off the.

[Adam Schafer]

Off the wall when it's folded in strong and stable.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yes.

[Adam Schafer]

We didn't have that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yes.

[Adam Schafer]

Before.

[Sal DeStefano]

No, no.

[Adam Schafer]

Space is a, is a big factor. But home gym equipment now has gone a long way. You know, prx, being the leader and.

[Sal DeStefano]

What I love about prx, I remember when they first did this. That's brilliant. Because someone might be thinking like, well, yeah, I mean, squat rack, dumbbells, all stub plates, like, that's not cheap. They structure it to where you can like paying a membership.

[Adam Schafer]

That's the other part.

[Sal DeStefano]

So if you're like, well, I go to Fitness 19 or I do this thing because it's only 19 bucks or 20 something bucks a month. That's like you can finance it over the. Over the. So you know, if you're going to use it and cost just like a membership. Yeah. If you're. If it's. If that's the reasoning why you're not investing in an at home gym. Well, we'll treat it like a membership and pay it like you're going to a membership and, and, and put it inside your garage.

[Adam Schafer]

No, no, that's 100. Because cost and space were the two biggest.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. And they solved both those.

[Adam Schafer]

They've impact in solving those.

[Justin Andrews]

And you can frat nice with your wife.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. But back to, you know, back. What's this, Doug? Is you pulling it up that squat?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, it's called the H squat.

[Adam Schafer]

That's it right there. Yeah, See, that's why I thought it was hammer strength.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, that is. That is hammer. The one that we saw though, is way bigger than that.

[Justin Andrews]

That's so unnecessary.

[Adam Schafer]

It's because it's a lever, so they need to create leverage.

[Sal DeStefano]

So if you remember, the other one was a little bit taller and wider. I mean, it was a big.

[Adam Schafer]

You know why that's a dangerous piece of equipment? Because you hammer your legs. You got to climb down the stairs. Yeah. What are you going to do? You need to.

[Sal DeStefano]

Can you explain why.

[Adam Schafer]

I fall down off that thing after a hard leg workout? So the other thing too, Just something to consider for people when you're looking for a gym. I mentioned culture. Here's what I mean by that, and I'll stand by this all day long. First off, you have to really try to get over the intimidation of working out in a gym. And I don't say that lightly. It is scary. I know what that feels like. Not from a gym perspective. I've been in gyms for my whole life. But I know how intimidating it was as a guy in his 20s going into Jiu jitsu school, watching this guy compete or whatever. When you start something new, it is intimidating. And so you're walking in and you're like, I don't know what I'm doing. Everybody else seems like they know what they're doing, like what's going to happen here. So I'm about to scale this up for you. Okay. I'm about to make that even worse. Go into a hardcore gym. I know your intimidation just went through the roof, but here's why I'm saying this. Your odds of being consistent are way higher in a hardcore quote Unquote, for lack of a better term, hardcore gym. Because the culture there is conducive to consistency. You get over that intimidation. You walk in as a beginner and you go into a gym that's a powerlifting gym or a gym that is a hardcore bodybuilding gym, or just a gym that people are like, they really take this seriously. And you get through that initial hump of intimidation. That culture will keep you consistent. You go into the comfort gyms, the ones that are designed to attract you, to attract you, to make it feel like, oh, don't worry, you know, this is where you, this is no problem. The culture sucks. You might as well be by yourself, right? Because the culture sucks so bad and your consistency will fall off. And I would, I will put that in the dirt all day long. I'll stake that in the dirt all day long. So find a hardcore gem and watch what happens. I, I think. Who was it that we talked to? I think it might have been a caller a long time ago. Who, who said that? No, it was a clip. It was like an Instagram clip where this young woman said she went into one of these hardcore gyms and she was intimidated and she felt like people were judging her and, you know, whatever. And the most jacked, tatted up dude approached her and she was prepared to get, you know, criticized. And he's like, hey, I just want to let you know, I've been seeing you coming here and you're kicking butt, man. It's so great. And she's like, I didn't expect that. It's like, that's what you get in good gym.

[Sal DeStefano]

Now do you think what the, the, the primary reason for that? I mean, this is my guess. Correct me if you're wrong, but if you're in this big commercial gym, you, you, you attract a lot of lucky, lose a lot of weekend warriors, a lot of people that. It's not a part of their life. It's not their totally. It's like, oh, I'm trying it out. I'm in and out. I'm there for the social aspect, turnover.

[Adam Schafer]

Like super high, right?

[Sal DeStefano]

So you get, you get a different versus this small, grungy kind of gym. The people in there lifting have probably been lifting for decades. It's small, it's intimate. They've trained for many years. This is, they, they don't come here because it's got a, a pretty sauna or it's got this. It's like, I come here to lift the iron and I appreciate what this can do for they will take you into their wing. Right. And that. And then you see a new person come in. Those people.

[Adam Schafer]

Like, that's in the gym industry. What you just described, the member that shows up consistently and takes it seriously and does it day in and day out, is a loss. Is a. Is a profit loss.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

They use up the equipment. They pay me their monthly fee. They do nothing else. They don't. I don't profit off them. I profit off the people that pay me monthly and don't show up.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

So that's the, you know, that's the issue with the. With the gym industry. But if you find. By the way, CrossFit. Figure this out. CrossFit did. Crushed the typical gym industry in a very short period of time. Why? Not because of their workout programming. Okay. It's not because of that. Definitely not because of their equipment. These were warehouse. Oftentimes, no ac.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

They don't have tons of equipment. It was like barbells, racks. That's it. It was the culture. And you talk to anybody. Beginners. You would talk to beginners. And this part I had a challenge with because the. Especially the classic. Because you see CrossFit gyms, a lot of them with good coaches now. But the classic CrossFit programming was inappropriate.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

For most people.

[Justin Andrews]

Inappropriate.

[Adam Schafer]

And yet these people would keep going. And it's like, why are you going? You ask them why you keep going, man. It's. It's the. It's the culture.

[Sal DeStefano]

People. People.

[Adam Schafer]

It's the people. It's the community. That's why I keep going. So that's the important thing. But here's what the data shows. Right. Because I pulled up some stats, I'm like, okay, does it make a big difference, home gym versus the gym gym, in terms of consistency? Yeah. After three to six months, people who start with a home gym, 50 to 70% of the people are maintaining it in a regular gym, 10 to 37.

[Sal DeStefano]

Whoa. That big of a difference.

[Adam Schafer]

Wow. That big of a difference. So because it cuts out drive time, it's convenient. It's right there, you know, which is probably the biggest thing. You work out whenever you want at any moment, and it's right there. You don't feel like you have to get yourself ready, which you'll get over. Once you're consistent in the gym, by the way, you'll stop thinking about how you look and you're just.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. And I think you take that to the next level and you don't put so much pressure on, like, a longer time frame. Like I need an hour, you know, dedicated to this workout. It's like, if you can go down to like 20, 30 minutes. 20 minutes, and then you have, you know, your home gym conveniently there. It's really efficient.

[Adam Schafer]

I just saw a clip on. It was on the UFC gym, Oak Ridge Mall site, and our. Our editor, Josh was the one in it.

[Sal DeStefano]

I think he.

[Adam Schafer]

You commented on it?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, yeah, the one that he said. He went around and asked, what gives you ick? Yeah, the gym ick.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. So, by the way, that gym's got a great culture. It's my. My buddy Don's gym in San Jose. So if you're in the area, that's. That's the place to go. But people were listening their ick, and immediately I thought of mine. Do you want to know what my ick is? My gym ick. The thing that makes me just people filming themselves in the gym. It is a thing.

[Sal DeStefano]

You so insulted so many of our people.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, five to ten years.

[Sal DeStefano]

So I'm. Yes, dude, I'm going to. I'm going to. I'm going to. I'm going to push back. Okay. Because I see lots of value in filming your technique.

[Adam Schafer]

You think that's what they're doing?

[Sal DeStefano]

I mean, I did. I did a lot of that. I did a lot of. Especially on deadlifting and squatting. You would always see me come in, my little tripod up. I'm not talking to the camera. I'm doing the end. It's like I'm recording my. My squat mechanics, and then I'm. Then I'm after my lift.

[Justin Andrews]

I don't know if I've ever seen that.

[Sal DeStefano]

I'm sitting. I'm sitting down, and I'm. I'm looking at it, and I'm looking at what.

[Adam Schafer]

What I.

[Sal DeStefano]

What I see. And just so now to your.

[Adam Schafer]

You know, you might be right. I might just be being a jerk, right?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Maybe they are filming there.

[Sal DeStefano]

So I. That's why. That's why. That's why I wanted to push back is because there's. There's two types of people that are.

[Adam Schafer]

Filming, you know, because I'm imagining they're just filming themselves.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, there's a lot of. So it depends. The gym, there is a lot of that. Like, I mean, we're in a day and age where everybody wants to be an influence. Influencer. Right. And so. And if you're into working out, what better way to start is, I'm going to be an influencer for fitness. And so there's a billion of those Kids, especially in certain gyms. So, you know, to your defense. Yeah. You know, every.

[Adam Schafer]

You might be right though. I might be super.

[Sal DeStefano]

But you got to be careful because exactly what I'm saying is that there's a lot of value. I mean, I've, I've coached clients to do that for me. I've said, hey, because I'm not there. I said, prop it up. Let me see your. Your deadlift and then send it to me later. And then I could critique form virtually later.

[Adam Schafer]

You know what's funny about that is, you know, because I've filmed a few times in gyms, so have you guys. Because of our. What we do. And it always feels so wrong.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. I don't like to do it, you.

[Adam Schafer]

Know, to get, to get filmed.

[Sal DeStefano]

Not like that.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. And I don't like it because I feel like I'm. I'm making other people uncomfortable or. And I don't want to ruin people's experience while they're working out. And so it's like, it just feels so. And I, you know, technically we're supposed to. Because of our work. And it's also. Could be my age. We didn't grow up that's.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, that's most of it.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. We didn't grow up with. Remember I talked about this a long time ago. Could you imagine going to your friend's house in the 90s and him being like, dude, you want to see my photo album? Like my phone? And then you open his photo album, it's all pictures of him. Dude, you're like. You're a serial killer.

[Sal DeStefano]

I just, I just, I just remembered something. I just watched this interview on Ice Coffee Hour, which is Graham Stephan is interviewing. And he's interviewing this big real estate mogul guy from New York. And he got a, he got a. He got a Netflix series. So he's blown up. They're asking him like, like, what's one of the craziest clients that you've like taken on as far as this bun? Because this guy deals with like $100 million properties, all this crazy stuff, right? And he. Maybe Dylan knows the name of this kid. But the, the. The new thing now are these kids that are getting so famous and they live stream their entire life all day long. And there's a kid, the Speed. The kid, this Speed kid, what's his name? Is that what it is? Speed? And he, and, and he goes, bro, dude, dude is.

[Adam Schafer]

What's my name is Speed.

[Sal DeStefano]

Hey, dude makes 100 million a year as a like 20 year old kid. Yeah. So he's estimated somewhere between 50. He's shopping for a 40 million dollar dude.

[Adam Schafer]

Money isn't everything. You guys, stop it.

[Sal DeStefano]

Listen people, I'm not telling this story. I defend streaming. So this is like, it's not. The point of the story is like.

[Adam Schafer]

Hey, you should stream. You guys.

[Sal DeStefano]

No, I would never do that no matter how much you pa. But I'm talking about how ridiculous it's getting that. So he's telling the story and he goes. He has to have an entourage, about 10 to 15 people because he's live and so people recognize where he's at. And he goes. And he's got. And he's got at all times. He's got150,000 to 200000 people that are watching live all day long his entire life. So he's got. Exactly. He's basically a Truman Show. And so he's got a set of bodyguards, he's got like two producers. He's like. And he's just moving through New York like that. And he goes, it was so crazy to see. And also he goes, man, he goes, I would, he's. I would never do something scary because at one point he goes, he. We're touring him at this point. Yeah, that's the kid right there.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, I've seen him.

[Sal DeStefano]

And so at one point, somebody who fell, he was come. Breaks through, sprints through the middle of his thing and grabs and rips his hat and then takes off and running. And he got to him, got his hat. Even with this security, even with all these people. And the guy who's telling the story, the real estate guy is just like, you know, imagine if that was someone who's actually trying. Some crazy kid who was trying to hurt him or do something like.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, yeah, I'll put, I'll take it. So that's extreme, right? Yes. You could get hurt. Somebody could, could do something to you. But let's just talk about what that does to your psychology.

[Sal DeStefano]

He has no idea what he's gonna do.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

At least 20 years old, bro.

[Adam Schafer]

Imagine this. Imagine you're. You're on. You're presenting yourself to an audience. That's what you're doing all day long. What it will do is slowly twist your psyche and personality into one that is not real.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

It will turn it into something that's not real and it's going to come crashing down one day.

[Sal DeStefano]

We talked about this.

[Adam Schafer]

People stop watching.

[Sal DeStefano]

We talked about this on our walk the other day. And I don't, I think to Your point that streaming your entire life just accelerates the point we were making. So we were talking on our walk the other day about a lot of people that we know in the space and how unfortunate it is, even some people that a lot of people think are awesome and they're so great and they whatever. But so much of who they are is the algorithm. And because they've gotten success from saying certain things or doing certain things, and it's this feedback loop because the attention is what they get paid for or what drives the leads or what drives the likes or what drives the revenue from the channels. And so it is. It takes a really disciplined person who built this thing with the intent to make money in business, that the algorithm repays you for doing these things, to not do more of those things. And it's insidious. It creeps in slowly. And then before you know it, you wake up a millionaire. Two years later, lost, lost, lost. Not you at all, but somebody who has figured the algorithm out, and you figured out what people like and what they want. And you've now become something that is not you. And then at first, those millions of dollars, you fill that empty hole inside by buying things and doing things and flaunting things and going like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then two more years go by.

[Adam Schafer]

And you're like, ugh, I've said this a lot on my series. It's like drinking seawater. You're thirsty and you're drinking seawater and you're thirstier, and so you're drinking more seawater, and it becomes this fervorous action of desperation. It's terrible. This is how crazy it is. I will sometimes see people who will talk about crazy things. They'll comment on social media like, so and so onlyfans model made this much money. And then people like, oh, my God, I can't believe she did that. And then people will defend and say, yeah, but she's a millionaire. As if that is the most important.

[Justin Andrews]

Money is all of it.

[Adam Schafer]

And it's like, it's not. And, boy, woe to you. Yeah, who figured that out the hard way?

[Justin Andrews]

Moral you can do to make a lot of money.

[Adam Schafer]

It's crazy. It's crazy.

[Justin Andrews]

How's that supposed to impress us?

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, you know what? That again, that one's so insidious because it's probably started from a. That's why I wanted to bring it up, because we have friends that are like. You have people who I think are good people that start from a place of. They've got Good information or they've got, they're trying to help or educate or whatever the reason is. But you can't help but want to start to play the algorithm game because it's what grows the business. And so it's like you, you modify a little bit and then you modify a little more and then you exaggerate a little bit more and then it's just, it's this real slow drift.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, this is like the eight minute mile, right? It's like somebody breaks through is like you're just gonna film me all day long, 24 hours a day, like. And so now this is like something that people will model and you're going to see more of this. It's going to get crazy.

[Sal DeStefano]

So funny. No, it's funny you say that. That was the analogy the real estate guy said, was that. Yeah, he, he gave the analogy of the four minute mile of just like, you know, you see one, one, one person. I knew what you.

[Adam Schafer]

I could do.

[Sal DeStefano]

I'm just thinking about what I can do.

[Adam Schafer]

That's for us guys.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Can you do it? Eight minutes I got. Nice.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's hard you guys. Hey, but that's hilarious that you went that direction because that's exactly what he explained. It is that like somebody paves the way and shows, hey, you could just record your whole life and get all this attention.

[Adam Schafer]

Jonathan Pajal said it best. You know, we heard him speak at Ark and it just makes so much sense when you place something too high on the list of values of the hierarchies, everything underneath that submits themselves to it, it becomes a God. So if the algorithm is your God, all everything in your life will submit themselves or will bend and mold themselves to appease this God. And only real God is God. So everything else is a tyrannical God. So if you worship the algorithm, it's going to twist and bend things in ways that. Oh, it's not going to, you know.

[Sal DeStefano]

It'S even that way. Sal. Still hard for someone to interpret that because you don't think you're worshiping it. People think worship and they think about somebody bowing down and singing. I know, I know, I understand what you're saying. But the. Someone else is, they're just trying, they're trying to build their business.

[Justin Andrews]

They're just trying to frame it different.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, it's. And so it's.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, if someone were to watch your life in a real way, you know, what would they think you, what would they say is your top value? And that would be it, right? There.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Top value.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, 100%. But anyway, this could be. Listen, this could be things that are good. This is when it gets really bad. Like, totally have. Have parents sometimes place their children as their God. Yeah. And you see that in marriages sometimes where our kids are higher than the marriage. And so now our marriage is submitting itself to our children and it destroys marriages. And that's a tough one for some people to hear because kids are great.

[Sal DeStefano]

I got a mom dad story for you that happened yesterday. And God bless my wife for, like, you know, calling and admitting her own struggle. Right. So, you know, obviously my son's getting at that age. One of the. One of the main focuses we're also going through mentor, family right now all together. Right. Is like, we really are trying to teach him to, you know, do a lot of things on his own and, like, help others and, like, trying to instill that in him instead of doing a lot of stuff for him. Right. And. And my son. I think. I think my son is pretty dang good at it already. I think his. The only thing holding him back is his parents. I mean, Katrina and I, I feel, have agreed that we're guilty that. I know I'm guilty of. That I know I'm guilty of. He gets in the car and she called me on the other day and, like, I buckle him up. She's like, you know, he does that every morning himself.

[Adam Schafer]

I'm like, ah.

[Sal DeStefano]

You know, like, it's so crazy too, because you don't part.

[Justin Andrews]

You likes it too, though.

[Sal DeStefano]

I know it is. That's why it's like, so faster. Yeah, yeah. And I'm not. And I'm not in a rush, so you would think it's like, why. Yeah, yeah, it's. And so, you know, I. I know that I have to be better about practicing these things. And so one of the things. Another amazing thing about this school that he goes to. I hope I don't annoy people by that all the time too. I'm constantly talking about how great the school is, but I'm just so impressed. I'm so impressed. I'm gonna write a letter, actually to the school, like, to thank the teachers and everything that they do. And so one of the things that they implement. I think I've talked about this before, is for the. The pre K and kindergarten. Well, any kids that are under. Under fifth grade, there's. The school has got this crazy operation for dropping off kids. Because dropping off kids is.

[Adam Schafer]

You gotta be organized.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, they're very organized. Part of the system is fifth graders take underclassmen to their class. So the parents literally kick the kids out the car. That's all they do. Oh, that's great. So it speeds up so great.

[Adam Schafer]

And it's good for the fifth graders.

[Sal DeStefano]

Responsibility teaches the kids. Responsibility teaches the kid the, the young kids independence. It's so, that's so smart. So brilliant. So brilliant. And we know that we could take.

[Adam Schafer]

We.

[Sal DeStefano]

We know we could take advantage of that. But Katrina takes him whenever she wants to take him. She walks him up to class with that. So yesterday they're pulling up the school, she's calling me, telling me what happened and like, basically going, giving her, I.

[Adam Schafer]

Messed up as a Bob, you know.

[Sal DeStefano]

Time to do like. Well, she didn't say it like that, but you could tell that she knows it was a. It's difficult for her, right? So he comes, he brings up to her like, hey, mommy, let's do the drop off line. And she's like, oh, okay. Well, yeah, yeah, we could, we could do that. She. And then you have to have the one thing you have to have is like this pass in your visor, which is like. Basically tells them that. And she didn't have it in her car. So she's like, oh, I got to do that. And so she's like, okay, well, mommy will get the passes. And he's like, no, I want to go right now. And. And she said that she could tell that the hesitancy had less to do with that. She didn't have the. Quite passive. It was like, she did not want to do that. She didn't.

[Adam Schafer]

She's leaving with some kids.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, well, just like, she likes walking into class, you know, and she enjoys that. But they actually, by first grade, they have to. So that's part of, that's part of the deal is they don't want mommy.

[Adam Schafer]

That's so good for the fifth grader too.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's so good.

[Adam Schafer]

So good.

[Sal DeStefano]

So co.

[Adam Schafer]

So you know, when they do that in studies, they show that less bullying is less. Far less likely.

[Sal DeStefano]

Dude, they have, they do so many cool things like this where the kids have upperclassmen partners that. Those classes, they go with those kids once, once a week or like that. But so today she, she dropped them off for the first time and she goes, oh, my God, it was so hard to just kick him out of the car. And so then see the little fifth grader who's taking, you know, taking my kid, like, hey, you know what class? He's got to go. She's like, you know, she Goes, I did two laps. I did two laps around the park parking lot to see where he was. I was cracking up. I said, good for you how you did it. You say, because I. I could easily. You know, we could easily, like, like, oh, no, Mommy likes taking you and then still take him.

[Adam Schafer]

I told you a story. Years ago, I had this kid that I trained. His parents found drugs in his room, and they sent him to one of those, like, wilderness camps, and he came back totally different. And one of the things they did with this kid is they had him. They put him in charge of other kids at the camp. Yeah, yeah. They gave him responsibility, and it totally had a huge impact on this kid to have that responsibility, to really lift him up into a new place. Yesterday we had dinner at my mom's house, and I brought my niece, right? So this is Jessica's niece who lives with us now, with me, and she's just starting to. She's now been to a couple of my family parties. And, you know, my culture is different, right? It's something you got to get used to. I remember it took Jessica a little while to get used to. So we get there, and, you know, my parents always prepare, you know, 15 different things to eat. And so we got pasta with pesto, and we got lamb, and we got vegetables. All these different dishes, right? Well, my niece doesn't really like red meat. She just doesn't like the. The texture. She's like, the taste. So she's eating some of the pasta, and I'm already like, oh, she's not gonna eat most of the food here. Let's see what my mom does. Sure enough. My mom's like, what's the matter? You don't like the lamb? And she's like, well, I don't. I don't. I don't like red meat. She's like, but this is lamb. I'm like, you know, lamb is. Is red meat. Are you a vegetarian? She's like, no, no, no. I like. I like chicken. She's like, do you like pork? Yeah, I like pork. Well, why don't you eat the pork sausage? Well, I kind of don't like. And I'm looking at my poor niece, and, like, she's going to all night. And I'm saying this in front of my mom, like, she's going to try to feed you all night. Don't take it personal. And my mom's like, no, I'm not. I'm like, yes, you are. You're going to try and feed her all night. So sure Enough. My mom. I made all this food. You don't want to eat any of it. You don't like any of it. Let me go look in the freezer. So my mom's going through, trying to figure out how to make food for this poor girl, and I'm like, listen, this is. She's gonna. This is what she's gonna do all day. This is how she loves people. Don't feel bad. But it was just funny to see her.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Go through it. Because I remember my wife would. Even when we first started dating, she's like, why don't they just listen to me? Are they ignoring me? I'm like, no. I mean, yeah, they kind of are, but. But I told them I'm full. Why do they keep offering me food? I'm like, it's just what they do, dude. I don't know. My wife has.

[Sal DeStefano]

You found out new strategies, like eat slower or something. That's what it looks like.

[Adam Schafer]

You just gotta be persistent. And then you just. You know. I remember going. And it gets worse. Go to Italy. It's even worse. When I would be at my grandma. I remember when I was. I think I was 12 or 13, went to Sicily and was with my grandmother. And I'm not exaggerating. This is not a. Like, I'm not. This is literal. She followed me around the house with food. Yeah, all day. Yeah, all day. I would sit down and hang out, and she'd bring me something new. Do you want to eat this? Like, no, no, I'm stuffed. Oh, you don't like it? No, no, no, it's not. Because I don't like it. Hold on. And then she'd leave and she'd come back with something else. Try this instead. No, I don't want it here. Just do a little bit. I'll put it right in front of you. If you leave it, it's okay. But it's a waste, bro. That summer, I gained. I don't know how much weight I gained. So it's like my cousin. My cousin Giuseppe, which I love him. He's a. He's a great man. Good, good father. He had gotten divorced in his. I think he was in his early 30s. And this is before he married his wife now, who I love. He lived with my grandparents for a short period of time. He gained 15 pounds as an adult. Just being over there because my grandmother would just feed him all day long. I don't know.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's just now, because you have a sumo. A family like that, that's also like, Loud conversations. Accepted.

[Adam Schafer]

Would.

[Sal DeStefano]

Would your mom or your. Your grandma be offended if, like, Jessica did something like, like, mom, I'm fine.

[Adam Schafer]

No, that's how you talk.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, I was gonna say that's.

[Adam Schafer]

It's probably.

[Sal DeStefano]

What would we receive better? She just needs to be like, ma, yeah, I've had enough.

[Adam Schafer]

That's it.

[Sal DeStefano]

I've had.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay, then she throw a little guilt at you. Yeah, all right.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, exactly. I feel like that's so. She's got. She's got to get comfortable with, like, that's enough.

[Adam Schafer]

My mom would say something like, you never like anything I make.

[Justin Andrews]

It's not true.

[Adam Schafer]

Stop it.

[Justin Andrews]

It's not true.

[Adam Schafer]

You know what I do. This is the secret. I've told this to my wife, too. I figured this out as a kid is you go up to them and you hug them and kiss them like you shut my mom down right away. I don't want anymore. Kiss, kiss, kiss, hug, hug. Yeah, you're okay now. Yeah, that's funny. I want to bring something up I saw on social media, I'm not a sports guy, but. So Bill Belichick, he's a coach, right?

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

He's like a famous coach with a hot girlfriend. Hold on a second. So there's a. There was a. I guess they were at a game. I don't know.

[Sal DeStefano]

Is she a third his age or a half?

[Adam Schafer]

Hold on a second.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay, sorry.

[Adam Schafer]

So they're at. They're at a game. I saw this picture. So I didn't. I wasn't familiar with this. So apparently his daughter is 23. Bill Belichick's 73. Okay.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, he's. Okay. So it's three times.

[Adam Schafer]

He's 73. Oh, my God. His girlfriend's 24.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

So they were showing in the, whatever the. Wherever they. In the suites or whatever at the game that his daughter just didn't want to always be on opposite sides, wouldn't be next to it. And I'm like, how weird is that? That your dad's girlfriend is your age?

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, okay, so.

[Adam Schafer]

Bro, he's 73.

[Sal DeStefano]

What makes it more weird to me, okay?

[Adam Schafer]

Because.

[Sal DeStefano]

Hey, hey, kudos to Bill Belichick.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, come on, bro.

[Sal DeStefano]

Hey, dude, stop it, bro.

[Adam Schafer]

What are you doing with the kid?

[Sal DeStefano]

You're a. Yeah, you're. You're a. You're a 70 something year old divorced man and a 24 year old model has a date. Sorry, sorry.

[Adam Schafer]

You're mad.

[Sal DeStefano]

Not interested. Yeah. Can you see this guy doing that? I can't see me.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, this is old. Maybe Old me.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, okay, but here, to me, the big difference is like, you know, I, I like to think that 70 year old US will still look pretty good.

[Adam Schafer]

Bill Belts didn't look like an old. No, he looks like an old.

[Sal DeStefano]

He's an old pack coach. Dude. There's no, there's nothing sexy about that guy. Old bulldog. So, because you have the, you have. I mean, there's some actors and stuff like that. That man, for like seven days, they still look great. They look incredible for their age. And so that makes a little more sense for that to pull. But come on, what is she.

[Adam Schafer]

I was just laughing because like your stepmom, you know, like go, you know, hey, you got to go clean your room right now. The hell are you the same grade.

[Justin Andrews]

When it's just fame and like financial success, that's. That's holding that together. It's so obvious.

[Adam Schafer]

That's like a. That's the daughter.

[Justin Andrews]

She would never be attracted to it otherwise. There's just no way.

[Adam Schafer]

I don't know. There's also a thing that's like, oh man, I mean, you're going to do life at that age, you know, at 73. I mean, no hate with your wisdom, your, you know, your experience with a child. That's a, that's a kid. That's a child for me. Let alone a. I mean, she could.

[Sal DeStefano]

Potentially be a very mature.

[Adam Schafer]

Shut up. She could be.

[Sal DeStefano]

I mean, come on, don't act like there's not 24.

[Adam Schafer]

Talk about really, what are you connecting.

[Sal DeStefano]

I don't think they're doing a lot of that.

[Adam Schafer]

You know what I'm saying?

[Sal DeStefano]

I don't think, I don't think there's a lot of.

[Justin Andrews]

I think there's a lot of chat.

[Sal DeStefano]

I think there's. I think there is a. I think there's an agreement in a relationship like that. She's probably fully aware he's here for. He. She's here for the nice clothes, the diamonds and all the cool.

[Justin Andrews]

She's not trying to get them on her Tik tok.

[Adam Schafer]

Hey, that's. Look at them together, bro. That's ridiculous.

[Sal DeStefano]

I, I don't, I don't.

[Adam Schafer]

He could be her grandfather. Not her dad. He could be her grandfather.

[Sal DeStefano]

And I, I think, I think he loves having a, A beautiful young girl on his arm everywhere he goes. Totally.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Events and all that.

[Sal DeStefano]

But I'm sure she gets all kinds of freedom. She gets to go fly away for a week and do whatever she wants and hang out like just as long as, like, hey, when we do that we do that hall of fame dinner. I need you back in town. You know what I'm saying? When I got those photos, I need you to be back in town.

[Adam Schafer]

Do you guys remember that one really famous Playboy model that Mary, she made like a 93 year old billionaire. What was her name?

[Justin Andrews]

And Nicole Smith, do you remember that picture?

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, he looked like he, he.

[Adam Schafer]

Did.

[Sal DeStefano]

That end up being like a big court case.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Because of her trying the money and all the family upset about it. Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

There's a famous picture of them together and he. Now he at least feel Belichick. I mean he looks old, but he don't look like he's gonna die tomorrow.

[Sal DeStefano]

That the picture with stress levels of a coach?

[Adam Schafer]

No, no, look at this picture, bro.

[Sal DeStefano]

He's got maybe 5, 10.

[Adam Schafer]

No, look at this picture right there. That was Anna Nicole Smith with her husband. Look at that bro. He looks like the Crypt Keeper. He's going to die.

[Cheryl]

Okay.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, but here's the thing too. Look, they're kissing. Here's agreement. I'm, I'm a. I'm 80 year old skeletor. I'm rich as hell. Like, I'm like what am I going to do with my, my extra 4 billion? My. I'm already, I've already given half of it to my kids. They're set. And well, my last four years they have this super hot dime piece that I'm like, I don't care. She's sweet to me for a couple years and she's no, I know she's.

[Adam Schafer]

In it for that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Like, I don't know. I'm like, there could be an arrangement there that.

[Adam Schafer]

There's definitely an arrangement. Yeah, yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

There's no way that he. Do you think a man transactional.

[Justin Andrews]

This isn't like.

[Sal DeStefano]

But no. Do, do you think a man that is probably that old, wise and successful. Okay. That is not a dumb old man. Okay. He's.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, he's, he's. In some ways he's probably dumb.

[Sal DeStefano]

No, no.

[Adam Schafer]

You don't think so?

[Sal DeStefano]

No, in some ways, no, I think he's, I think he's absolutely brilliant, wise, successful and goes. I got four more years of my life. I got so much money. I carve off a maximum. Yes.

[Adam Schafer]

You know what?

[Sal DeStefano]

Chalking it up to the game.

[Adam Schafer]

Listen, I'm going to. I picture. This is what I picture. I remember my grandparents, you know, God rest her soul, they passed away not that long ago. I remember them. You know, my grandfather in his 90s, my grandmother was in her 80s and they lived a Life together. They raised their kids together. And there's. I have videos of them dancing together and laughing and joking and bickering in ways that only couples who've been together for, you know, 60 years can do. Like that's wise.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay, okay, okay, let's play off this. Let's play off of that. Them.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay.

[Sal DeStefano]

I don't know how it played out, but let's just say in this situation, Grandma dies first.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, exactly.

[Sal DeStefano]

He's 84. He's worth a hundred million. Set up your grandkids with. Let's. He set up. Okay, set up your. Your family with $50 million worth of assets. Things like. Okay, yeah, he's got 50 million to play with.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

I mean, Anna Nicole Smith. Are you mad at Grandpa for. Yes. Hanging out with Anna Nicole Smith and breaking off 50 million after he dies in three years.

[Adam Schafer]

You know, my aunts would have done it had my grandfather at night.

[Sal DeStefano]

I'm not talking. I'm talking about you. Like, do you look at it? Would you look at that Shame, Grandpa.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, I'd be like, what are you doing? No. Oh, you and I are different.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. I'd be fist bumping Grandpa. I'd be like, you know, Grandma would be proud I got you proud. You know what I'm saying? You took care of the family. You got a few years left. You know what I'm saying? So if someone may as well have a hot chick, change your diaper, that's exactly. That'd be a fist bump.

[Adam Schafer]

Right? You know what? This is what you're talking.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's just other people that are angry.

[Adam Schafer]

Can I tell you something right now? I'll tell you. You know what we're looking at right here and what you're talking about. I know we're joking or whatever, maybe you're not, but you might be serious. I'm very serious. You know what that is? That's. That's not that many steps away from people marrying AI robots. It's not that many steps away from someone having a robot that seems hot and perfect.

[Sal DeStefano]

Stop it, dude. Stop it.

[Adam Schafer]

How much of a difference is it? You have a person machine. Yes, that's different. But you got a person with you to care less. She's with you for one thing only. You're with her for one thing only. There's nothing else there. I mean, it's, it's.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yes, you're providing protection, shelter, maybe humor you could provide even at 80 something years old. Okay. A lot of other human things, bro, that are the end. By the way, she's only got to stick around for 10 years and then she's still got the whole rest of her life to go.

[Adam Schafer]

I think that dude died like two or three years later.

[Sal DeStefano]

He did. He didn't last very long at all. And you can tell he knows that. Look at, look what he looks like in that first. No way. He's like, yeah, I got a good 30 left. No way.

[Adam Schafer]

He's like, yeah, 30 minutes.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. He's like, I got, I got maybe a few years left in my life. I got plenty of money in the bank. Like, come on, dude. Oh man, I can't believe you're so in against that.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh yeah, really?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

I think there's something. I mean, look, teach their own, I.

[Sal DeStefano]

Guess, but just so you would rather him die alone?

[Adam Schafer]

No, I think.

[Sal DeStefano]

Do you think he's gonna find somebody else who's also 90 and think you're.

[Adam Schafer]

Gonna try with his family, surrounded by his family? I don't know.

[Sal DeStefano]

You think he'd stop seeing his family.

[Adam Schafer]

Because he has a hot wife?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

I mean, they sued him, they sued her afterwards. There's obviously a lot of problems.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, there's going to always be the granddaughter or niece or someone. What you don't know about that is how, how, what if they were greedy and it's because they could have got more money from grandpa because.

[Adam Schafer]

And they don't like, like doing that course we're talking about, we're some of the most successful families. Not money, but success is measured by that. Plus the kids do well. Plus. Yeah. Most of them give most of that stuff away. Oh yeah, Leave it to them.

[Sal DeStefano]

No, no, totally. And, and, and so imagine if he was a man like that and that's. And his selfish little grandkids or something like that are all angry because this girl gets this, gets to have this princess life. Yeah. Like, I mean, listen, my, my defense of this is not. This is how I think people should live.

[Adam Schafer]

I'm saying, I know you're defending the motives. I mean, I know the motives.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Defend that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. And I'm also defending the, the 80 year old guy who made. And Bill Belichick that make that decision. Like, you know, now Bill's got a little bit more life and you know, maybe I, I wouldn't, you know, if he was my dad and be like, yeah, dad, maybe maybe find somebody who.

[Adam Schafer]

You could kind of find someone who's 34.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Yeah. Maybe find someone he could actually maybe grow old a little bit with. You have more. But I bet you money you probably sit me down hey, son, son, listen, listen. I don't. I've got a little friends. I got plenty of companionship. I got plenty of family.

[Adam Schafer]

You imagine that Your stepmom is 20 years younger than you. Could you imagine that? What's going on here?

[Sal DeStefano]

I'm sure the sun doesn't mind.

[Adam Schafer]

Anyway, I gotta. I gotta ask you. I want to ask you, Adam, because off air you were talking about how we're gonna change subjects.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, we're just going in circles.

[Adam Schafer]

You were talking, you were talking about how you've been using the egg protein.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, I finally got it.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, finally. I had.

[Adam Schafer]

So you're a whey guy. Now you're using egg protein. What's the, what's the difference? The value for you?

[Sal DeStefano]

So I can't report on feel or I think it's nutritional value is so much.

[Adam Schafer]

They're both super high.

[Sal DeStefano]

But taste for making a shake is awesome.

[Adam Schafer]

Egg protein is good.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, it has a different, almost like cake batter, frothy taste to it.

[Adam Schafer]

Different mouth feel.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, different mouth feel. Frost up the shake better. And so I'm. Obviously, everybody at this point knows what I'm going through this week is still. I'm in the fire, still feel terrible. And I'm doing everything I can. Supplement, vitamins, IVs, all the things I can to try and get me back to normal. And so every day I'm having a huge spinach, blueberry, banana, a Legion egg protein shake. So that's like, it's right. Become like a staple on top of my green juice, on top of everything else I'm doing. So, yeah, I'm just trying to like, flood my body with vines.

[Adam Schafer]

I, I really, you know, I think for people who have dairy intolerance like me, a lot of people don't realize egg protein is just as anabolic. It's just as anabolic. It's just as good for muscle building. It's just as whatever. And it fell out of favor. It used to be the standard, and then whey protein came along.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, because price, price.

[Adam Schafer]

And also I think whey did a good job of advertising itself.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, yeah, because it's splitting hair difference. For as far as the nutritional.

[Adam Schafer]

They're the same.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

So that's.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's really about price. Manufacturers found that they could produce whey significantly less in comparison to eggs. So you're paying per serving. You're paying a little bit more money to go the egg route. So who. Two people who I see this is really good for, like, if you really appreciate better taste and you want Things to like the egg flavor will go really well in foods and make really good smoothies. So you don't mind paying a little extra for that. Or if you're somebody who's intolerant to.

[Adam Schafer]

Like me.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Way, then it makes a ton of sense to go that route.

[Adam Schafer]

I've been using like crazy. Did you guys see the new military standards that they've. It became that are controversial that they put out a little while ago? I'll read to you.

[Sal DeStefano]

What.

[Adam Schafer]

I don't know why this is controversial. I really, I really.

[Justin Andrews]

This is more of them tightening up the physical standards.

[Adam Schafer]

So the new military.

[Sal DeStefano]

This was like, Remember when, remember the controversy when you, when they, when they said you'd be able to throw a grenade like 100 yards or 50, like 10 yards or something crazy.

[Justin Andrews]

They couldn't throw it.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, no, check this out.

[Justin Andrews]

This is five yards.

[Adam Schafer]

I don't know why this is controversial. The new military standards require both men and women to meet the same minimum physical performance benchmarks.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

For combat roles. Yeah. They, for a while there, they had different benchmarks for women that they had for men, which to me is dangerous.

[Justin Andrews]

I think they lowered it to try and encourage more to sign up. But what do you do then? It's like it's, you're, you're training for combat and that's, that's, you have standards.

[Adam Schafer]

And not only that, if you don't meet these benchmarks, let's say, because they lowered them so more, you know, say women can get in. You're endangering her and the people around her who would now have to try to save.

[Sal DeStefano]

And now I guess, I guess where I would push back. Right. Trying to think, trying to play devil's advocate with something like this is, let's say you have a, a woman who's not as physically fit as your military, normal military combat person. And she's very much so into the tech side of military or things where she's never going to be on a battlefield or have to. And she's different and she's interested. But yet, but yet the military.

[Adam Schafer]

No, this is for combat roles.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, so for strictly combat.

[Adam Schafer]

That's right.

[Sal DeStefano]

Because I know that they have their, like their, their. No, this is different entry level.

[Adam Schafer]

Like, this is for combat roles. So if you're going to be in combat. Okay, this is.

[Sal DeStefano]

That to me, that's no brainer. I, by the way.

[Justin Andrews]

No brainer.

[Adam Schafer]

By the way. I think they need to do this with law enforcement. I think you need to do this with fire. I think it's, it's crazy and dangerous to put people in.

[Justin Andrews]

It's for the safety of everybody involved.

[Adam Schafer]

No, man, I, I hate. I really think it's not wise. And yeah, more guys are going to pass because guys are typically bigger and stronger. Okay. Like if you're gonna, if you're gonna be out there and do a. Dangerous by the way, for all the female officers that go out and like I, I'm not doing it. So I'm not, you know, putting shade on you. That's amazing. But they need to have a, a benchmark and determine this is what's considered the minimum. And it doesn't matter if, yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

If you, if it's purely. You are, that's what you are going to do for that service is like literally military combat. Which means there's a very good chance if you go to combat, you're going to be fighting with someone, shooting someone that's right to run, how to do those things or all kinds of unprepared. I don't think, I don't think that should be.

[Justin Andrews]

Standards are hard. It's like you, you train your best to meet those standards or you don't, you don't pass. It's like you got to have rigid standards for something that's dangerous.

[Adam Schafer]

That's dangerous.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. No, I feel like my point is just like I wouldn't just because a girl or guy is overweight and out of shape but are just a brilliant military strategist or have skills brain wise for the role.

[Adam Schafer]

Right, right, right.

[Sal DeStefano]

For, for a role in the military. It's like, oh, that would be silly to cut them out just because of that. But if you're like, I'm signing up for combat. You know what I'm saying? It's like, which is, which is weird because we do it for certain levels of that. Like no Navy SEALs getting in.

[Adam Schafer]

No.

[Sal DeStefano]

Without. You can't be a Navy SEAL without being elite.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. And all that.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's not like we're lowering the bar for Navy seals. It's not like we're like, oh hey, we're gonna not make it so hard. Anybody could be a seal. And I was like, no, no.

[Adam Schafer]

So dumb.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

And wasn't there something with Space Force?

[Sal DeStefano]

No, just I sent over to you guys.

[Adam Schafer]

All right.

[Sal DeStefano]

So you guys brought up, Remember the guy Atlas? Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

The comet. We were talking about that, speculating whether or not that was just a comet or had some other.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's another. Did you see though what I sent you guys is now they're showing like Other, other, like ships or things that are.

[Adam Schafer]

So I've been looking.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, so like they're, they're. I forget. What, what did they show? Like different, like satellites kind of coming off of it or like different.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Doug, pull it up. I sent in the group thread.

[Adam Schafer]

So I did some research. So I did some research. I think what's happening right now is news outlets are sensationalizing certain things to get cl. Because I actually looked at what experts actually think, and the vast majority of them are like, it's a comment. Yeah, it's. It's a comment. It's got all the evidence of comments.

[Sal DeStefano]

So what I told Justin is I think this is all conditioning us for get a social condition to get us ready to spend trillions of dollars on Space Force. Everybody listening right now? No, not everybody. There's still people that are naive to believe that a lot of these wars around the world that we do is real. But most people understand that a majority of these wars that we do is a bunch of. Now, okay, it's a bunch of. That we've created. And it is a way. It is a way for us to divert billions and trillions of dollars, taxpayer money to fund all of this. Right? And I think that most people are kept both on the conservative side and the liberal side's been on that way for a long time. Even the conservative side is waking up to how much bullshit so many of these wars are. And so since everybody's getting privy to it, it's like, well, what are we going to do to still get all that money? You know what? Aliens.

[Justin Andrews]

How can we scare them?

[Adam Schafer]

Right?

[Sal DeStefano]

How can we scare them? And people will be uncertain both on left and right. And it's like, let's create this.

[Justin Andrews]

And it's been a process. And you saw the UFOs in New.

[Sal DeStefano]

Jersey slowly dripping it to us.

[Justin Andrews]

Why else would that be so visible? I mean, this is all a big process of like, if you look at it from a psychological perspective, like you need to introduce it in doses. And the latest one too is like they're showing on Google Earth that there was like a, an actual. Underneath the water. I think it was near Malibu. Like they showed this like irregular formation, it looked like. And people were reporting UFOs would go in to some underwater base in a sense. And so they're like showing things like that. Like now they're like, oh, like somebody from the military, like, is now speaking out on it. Like, this was something that we've known about.

[Adam Schafer]

I hate to break it to people, but if if there is a 20.

[Sal DeStefano]

Year plan, it's a 20 year plan probably.

[Adam Schafer]

If there's an alien species that's able to travel light years over here and survive like our military can do nothing.

[Justin Andrews]

They've got technology obviously it's well way more advanced.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, we're going to be toast.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's why it's a joke. That's why it's. But this is all a 20 year plan of conditioning us and then we'll have something that, that'll scare us. Not so much to where our. Because if, if you dropped something that's really trying scarce right now, it'd be like chaos right up. But if you trickle it like Justin's saying, just a little bit more here and there, quiet for a while, then a little bit here, then probably in like 15 years from now when aliens see I told you, I told you aliens were coming or whatever that or they like. Then once they stage it that much to where we get everyone to get on board and it's like, like yeah, we need trillions of dollars for space force now.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Have you seen, I mean there's, you know, save us. Yeah. Did you know Space. Was it SpaceX? That's Elon's company, right? Yeah, 90 of the stuff that goes up into space and satellites is through SpaceX. Yeah, 90. And he took a company that everybody thought was going to be like, oh, how are you going to profit off this? Yeah. Turn it into this incredible.

[Justin Andrews]

Taking satellites from other countries and he's blasting it all up. Yeah, dude, it's pretty wild space.

[Sal DeStefano]

Funny the amount of people that still doubt him as an entrepreneur.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, as an entrepreneur. No way.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

And he's still like there's no aliens. Like he's the one. He's like, I'll let you guys know.

[Adam Schafer]

That's because he is an alien. He doesn't want us to know.

[Justin Andrews]

I didn't even think about that.

[Adam Schafer]

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[Sal DeStefano]

From November 28th to the 30th, Entera is offering exclusive Black Friday deals followed by a one day Cyber Monday event on December 1st. Go check them out. Enteraskincare.com forward/mpm Our first caller is Kara from Arkansas.

[Adam Schafer]

Hi, Kara. Hello.

[Sal DeStefano]

Hello.

[Kara]

Hey, guys.

[Adam Schafer]

How can we help you?

[Kara]

Thanks. Well, thanks for having me on. First off, I'm going to say I'm a runner with the CrossFit problem, so be nice. All right, so I was a college basketball player and I gained over 100 pounds in my mid-20s. When I got pregnant at the end of my 20s, I kind of got tired of it and so I got serious and lost over 100 pounds. I did it by running and consistently eating about 1200 calories. I kept it off that way for about 10 years until right before my 40s, I decided to kind of kick it up a notch and started counting macros up to my protein. Um, I've ran consistently throughout all of those years. I absolutely love it. And then I joined CrossFit at the same time right before 40. Loved it. Also, I got down to a really lean body fat. The two DEXA scans had me at like 10 and 11%. And I loved the long lean look. I should tell you, I'm six foot tall and I got down to about 149. Then I had a friend talk me into starting to try to put on muscle and I upped my calories around 2200 a day. I gained 20 plus pounds over the last two, three years. And I kind of hate the way I look. My daughter says that I have a sleeper's body and I'd like to change that. Like where you don't look like you work out until you flex and all that hard work. You know, I kind of want to look like I work out all the time. The last year I stopped doing metcons partially because of the pain, but I also got a little concerned with maybe it was being too much with the running, lifting, and CrossFit. But I do love lots of activity. I cut my calories back to 1800, but I'm struggling to hit it. And I did macro Strict for three years. Never really missed a beat. Had no problem sticking to it until recently. Recently. But my middle just looks soft, pudgy, poochie, and kind of fat. So my question is basically, what am I doing wrong? I really love running for the stress relief and I love endurance. I love to be able to look back and say, I did that. But I do love the muscle. I just miss being really lean. So any guidance or any guidance on what I should be doing with lifting wise?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, totally solvable.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Thank you so Much for. For all the details, actually, that tells us quite a bit. So I'm going to give you like a visual. Is that. Okay. So I can kind of illustrate. Okay. So over here you have a continuum. So to my left and my right, there's a continuum. On the left is unhealthy relationship with exercise and diet, or extra activity and diet. And on the right is also unhealthy relationship with exercise and diet. But they look different. On the left you have punishing myself, beating myself up. You know, gotta, you know, I'm restricting. I'm punishing myself essentially with exercise and diet. And on the right is. I'm also punishing myself, but it looks different. Looks like I'm overeating, I'm indulging, I'm not active. I'm essentially not taking care of myself as well. So this is. This is what it looks like. In the middle is healthy. Okay, so which. Where do you think you are right now, and where do you think you were when you were 100 pounds heavy?

[Kara]

I think I went from one end of the spectrum to the other. You did, but I re. And unfortunately, I just love that end of the spectrum.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, you actually don't love it, Cara. You're just so used to hating yourself that it feels familiar, right? Yeah, I know that it's. It's hard to hear that because I can do that myself. But, you know, familiarity can feel comfortable because you. It feels like you're in control. So it's like, I know what this is. Like I know what this feels like. I've been here for so long. But you can't hate yourself into better health. And what's going to happen if we don't? Because here's the deal. What you're looking for, like, what's my workout? What's the diet? What is that going to look like that has to flow out of a good relationship with exercise and diet or with yourself? Because I can give you the right answers. But if the, if the. If the root is still hating yourself, it's not going to last very long.

[Kara]

Okay.

[Adam Schafer]

In fact, it won't feel good. I'm gonna tell you right now it's gonna feel uncomfortable because it's unfamiliar. So I'll give you what the answer is. But you really gotta take what I'm saying seriously. Otherwise it's just gonna keep. You're gonna ping pong back and forth, and my guess is you're gonna keep. You're gonna start to veer more towards the extreme and your body's gonna really Start to rebel. It already is a little bit with the pain, you know, hormone issues. You may get hair loss, you may start to. Yeah, just not feeling good. And eventually your body will win. It's going to rebel really bad. Okay.

[Kara]

Or old age.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, as you get older, you just get away with less. And as you get older, the miles add up in the sense that you beat yourself up for a month. It doesn't hurt you as much as if you've done it for years and years and years. Okay, so here's the answer. You should do traditional strength training three days a week. Stop all your cardio for now. You're just going to track your steps and we're going to reverse diet you and you're going to hate it. You're going to hate every second of it because it's going to feel like you're not doing enough. My body's, I don't like where my body is, by the way. 100, you know, if you're around 160 something pounds at your height, you're fine. Your calories are, you know, probably need to be in the mid-2000s. Yep. You know, again, that's going to feel uncomfortable. It's going to feel like you're eating too much.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's at the reduced level.

[Adam Schafer]

That's right.

[Sal DeStefano]

Activity she's doing right now should be north of 3,000.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Well, here, let me ask you this. Would you like to feel peace around this? And good.

[Kara]

Yeah. I believe I knew which end I was at a couple of years ago and I think that's why I started working to try to fix this. I think part of my problem is the true enjoyments because this is the only hobby I guess I have anymore. My, this is what me and my friends do. We started doing triathlons and did marathons. Then we started two years ago hiking the Grand Canyon. So we've made that a trip we do once a year.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Kara]

And in all of that I didn't ever up the calories. And so I, I, in my mind I was like, okay, this is the reason I'm probably starting to hurt a little bit. My strength did continue to increase. All of my, my max lifts continued to get stronger throughout this year. So I haven't gone backwards as far as that goes. But I never focused on lifting until the last couple of years. I do love lifting now. I hated it before. I will tell you. I hated it. I love it now. I just also really love running for the stress relief, I guess.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Do you love it more than, than, than the way you want to look.

[Kara]

No. Whoa, that's, that's tough. But no. My immediate answer was no. Yeah, I really want to look like I've put the work in to look good.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, that's the, see, that's where the, that's the part of the problem. Right. So if you really, if you, if you really learn to enjoy the fitness aspect of it, then the, the way you look is going to reflect being fit and healthy. It's not going to reflect a very, you know, 10, 11% body fat for a woman is very unhealthy. It'll, it'll lead to osteopenia. It could lead to lots of different issues.

[Kara]

Yeah, well, part of the reason I started with the strength is my aunt fell, broke her knee, but she couldn't get up. And that, that fear said I do not want to be that person. I'd much rather be able to work out and have longevity with this. That's, that's really what I'm after. Yeah, I just also want to look the part, I guess.

[Adam Schafer]

What do you, I know you say you want that, but what do your actions show? If I didn't, if I didn't talk to you and I watched you for the last seven years with your workouts and diet, would I think longevity or would I think something else?

[Kara]

I think if you look at the knowledge that I have, you would think something. If you didn't look at the knowledge I have, you would think something else. But I am a person that, if I know what the plan is to get me somewhere and I have a good solid understanding, I have no problem sticking to the plan.

[Adam Schafer]

You're an athlete. But I've been going, you're disciplined, you're disciplined, you're an athlete. I have no, I have no, no questions on that. No question. I'm just trying to help you get to a place of peace with this where you really do, which I don't know if you know what that feels like, where it's joyful, it feels like calm peace. And it's like. And you actually just, you just love it. And the, the way you look is a reflection of that 140 pounds 6 foot tall female athlete that's even 160 pounds. You know, it's probably, I don't know, I don't know. But I could tell you that just from talking to you that we need to move you more towards the healthy direction. Because, look, I can tell you this all day long. It's gonna hit you at some point and it's gonna get really nasty if you don't move out of it. But I don't want to scare you out of it, because your fear isn't gonna help you either.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, I'm gonna be more direct. Kara, would you. Would you let our team coach you through this? Yeah.

[Kara]

I think, to be honest, the part that I'm missing is I've. I've gone it alone, I've gone through this trying to learn, and I've learned a ton. But there's a part where I listen, I follow well. I'm a true leader. I know it sounds terrible, but if you tell me this is what you need to do to get you here.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Kara]

Then I'm going to do that. And I'm missing that part, I think, because I'm trying to do. I've been trying for a few years, and I've done well, but I can't get myself back. I've tried for three years, and I'm struggling. So. Yes.

[Adam Schafer]

All right, I think that we'll take care of you. Yeah, let's set you up with the coach because that. Just the whole process.

[Sal DeStefano]

I'm very excited for you. What's on the other side of this? Yeah, you're gonna. You're gonna love your physique. You're gonna love how strong you are. You're gonna love how you feel. You're gonna love where you're at nutritionally. It's the getting there that's hard. Yeah, it's hard. So, yeah.

[Cheryl]

And you.

[Adam Schafer]

And you've been running. I mean, you have a gear. You have two gears. On or off, and on is full speed ahead. Off is like, I'm not doing it. And that's very, very valuable for an athlete. Like, and you've got that mentality. It's not going to serve you with this at the moment, though, and it's not going to probably serve you for. For a lot of things, but it works. When it comes to athletics and competition.

[Sal DeStefano]

The part that it will serve you is that you. You take. Take direction. That's why. Just. That's why I was directed with asking you, like, let us. Let us coach you through this. And I. I feel confident with your. Your athletic background and your ability to follow direction. And then if you just have trust in us, that we will lead you to the right place, you're going to be fine.

[Adam Schafer]

Yep.

[Sal DeStefano]

We're gonna be okay.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay. Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

So.

[Adam Schafer]

All right, somebody's gonna give you a call, Kara.

[Kara]

Okay. I appreciate it.

[Laurent]

Thanks, guys.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. And you know what? Let's reach let's talk with you again in a few months. How's that sound? I'd love to get a little. Yeah, yeah, let's do that.

[Justin Andrews]

Keep some tabs.

[Adam Schafer]

Thank you.

[Kara]

Thank you.

[Adam Schafer]

Bye.

[Sal DeStefano]

Bye.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, it's tough.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

You know, it's. Here's the thing. As you're. As I, you know, and by the way, I just got to say this. I know I say this every time. That's. This is not how you coach people. Okay. Because we're on a call.

[Sal DeStefano]

We have. We have five minutes.

[Adam Schafer]

This would be a long conversation. I wouldn't be so, like, you know, But I mean, you can see even for herself, as she's talking, she's hearing what she's saying.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yes.

[Adam Schafer]

And it's like, like, ooh, this. And you know you're being recorded. I know what that's like.

[Justin Andrews]

Because it's not benefiting her anymore.

[Adam Schafer]

No, man. And it's got. We have to change this because it's going to turn into, you know, we used to call it back in the day, adrenal fatigue or whatever.

[Sal DeStefano]

I'm so, I'm, I'm super pumped and proud that she was that willing to take for sure, guidance because that. What happens with someone with her knowledge, her experience, her discipline. It's really hard sometimes for that person to accept. I need someone to guide me because just tell me I can go do it. And they have that. But this is not one of those things that, that you can just go execute because the mind games that's going to happen is gonna. She's gonna need to outsource that to somebody else to let her know, like, Cara, you're doing great.

[Justin Andrews]

It's hard for her is lifting and running. You know, it needs to be hard. Needs to be like learning how to do something completely different and, and to, you know, release the. Those tendencies.

[Sal DeStefano]

But I'm excited, though. I mean, the fact that she's that open. I think when our team gets a hold of her, she's gonna be in three, four months. You'll be pumped.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Huge transformation.

[Sal DeStefano]

Our next caller is Garrett from Michigan.

[Adam Schafer]

What's up, Garrett?

[Garrett]

What's happening, guys? Oh, this feels so surreal seeing you guys. It's awesome.

[Adam Schafer]

How can we help you, dude?

[Garrett]

Yeah, I guess I'll just read my email and I'll just, you know, I'll go from there.

[Sal DeStefano]

All right. Hello.

[Garrett]

I'm a 22 year old male. I need your help with knowing the proper amount of calories because I have a physically demanding job. I work six to seven days A week. I made great gains but I've currently hit a plateau. I eat around 200 to 300 pro grams of protein a day, 10, 10 grams of creatine. Carbs are mostly centered around lifts because the more I'm in the gym more intentful. So I feel I need them more in the gym. But I track everything, including water, you know, weigh myself, all that stuff. I love the bodybuilding mindset and the tracking, the discipline stuff. It has taught me what discipline and consistency looks like. I was cutting from 210 to 185. Currently my calories are around 2000. I want to get to the point where I can eat food, enjoy life more and have a more healthy metabolism. I train every body part two days a week. I'm heavily considering changing to one of your guys's programs because I kind of know what you guys are going to say because I've listened to a lot of your episodes. I, I get, I get around 15k steps a day, mostly from work. Honestly. I don't even go in the tread, I don't even go into the gym and go on the treadmill. I work in the automotive industry. I'm on, you know, like assembly line type work. My mindset has definitely changed in fitness from hating myself mainly because I've watched you guys, you guys have kind of helped me, you know, get me out of that realm. I truly look up, look up to you guys and I would love to see what you guys wanna, would, would say. So I, I'm trying to contact because I want to increase my calories and build muscle but I don't want to get too lean like I've done before in the past. But I also don't want, I also want to have balance where I can stay dialed in fitness and nutrition, but also, you know, look good, not get too skinny or just getting your fat or whatever like I've done in the past for context. I do plan on doing bodybuilding, but right now the muscle maturity is not there and definitely my mindset on health and fitness is definitely not there. My main focus is to build muscle, but I want to know where my calories should be. But my body fat percent range for building muscle and staying healthy is definitely a concern because I've been at extremes where I've been, you know, sub 6, 7% and I've also been in extremes where I've been 25 plus in unhealthy body fats doing, you know, dirty bulks and stuff like that. When I was younger I did send photos like one when I was, like, 150, and then the one where I was like, 186. The current one is 186. I don't really look at the scale that much anymore. I'm all. I'm trying to, like, focus on the mirror and my body fat percent. But right now, my. My main focus is my body fat percent. I do notice the leaner I am, the better I feel and the more responsive to building muscle and growing. Just growing and being strong in the gym. And that was kind of, I think, any. Anything over, like, honestly, it was just like, anything over 15, 16. I just felt like I was like, oh, man, what's the benefit? You know, like, what am I doing?

[Sal DeStefano]

You're doing good, bro.

[Adam Schafer]

You are.

[Sal DeStefano]

You're doing great.

[Adam Schafer]

You want. You want to.

[Sal DeStefano]

22. You look great. You're doing good. Let's increase calories and just keep building.

[Adam Schafer]

You want to. You want to build? Yeah, that's the main deal.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Garrett]

That's my goal. And I was actually talking to my brother, and he shouts, my brother. I was like, he's, man, like, he's like, you want to build muscle and all these things, but you're eating 2,000 calories.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, bro. Pump your calories. Maps Anabolic.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Garrett]

Okay.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

You want to build good body fat percentage to stick around about 13, 15%. That's a great.

[Garrett]

That's right where I am right now.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, that's where you want to stay. You know, once you get down to, like, 10, it gets hard to build.

[Garrett]

That's what I've noticed. The more I've pushed, the more I pushed under 180, it was just like, oh, man, everything's going downhill.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Garrett]

Not just physically, but mentally.

[Adam Schafer]

And then here's the deal, too, especially at your age, the strongest correlate to building muscle is strength. So if you get stronger, you're going to build muscle, and it's going to be like this for a while. For you, for years now. At some point, obviously, this becomes risk versus reward, and you can't just keep getting strong forever. But at your age, with good techniques, programming.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Good form, make sure you don't go crazy, hurt yourself. So be smart about it. But if you get stronger, you're building. So that's the thing you should focus on, is strength. Yeah. Bump your calories. I, you know, guy like you, as active as you are, I'd go up to 2700 calories to start with.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yes.

[Adam Schafer]

27 should be good. Maps Power lift Maps Anabolic. Both programs would Be great and just get strong, dude. In fact. Okay, I think mass power lift would probably be.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, you could do that.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. I think that would be good for you right now because it'll take you away from.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, just go for that.

[Adam Schafer]

Looking in the mirror all the time.

[Sal DeStefano]

Strength.

[Adam Schafer]

Strength. But.

[Garrett]

Right.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. 2700 calories a day. Keep your protein up. Maps, power lift, and let's get you real strong.

[Sal DeStefano]

But, dude, just so you know, 22 years old. You got a great base already. Yeah, you're doing good. Yeah, you're doing. You're doing great. But we need to be fed. This is not a time to be cut, shredded. This is be fed, eat, get strong. You don't need a routine where you're in the gym six, seven days a week. You need a routine. You're in the gym three, four days.

[Adam Schafer]

You'll build more that way.

[Sal DeStefano]

Don't dirty bulk. Don't try and. Don't throw a bunch of. Bunch of, you know, garbage on there just to get calories. Eat whole foods and try and hit 2700 calories. And if you hit 2700 calories consistently and the scale doesn't move up anymore, then start to bump calories again. Guy, Guy. As young as you are and as active you are, could easily get up into the mid threes. But obviously, salad doesn't want to jump you from 2000 to 3000. Route the gates. But I think you can go to 2700, hold there for a couple weeks, maybe three, four weeks, you go back in and then increase your chance to go up.

[Justin Andrews]

Recovery delivery.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yep. And then slowly creep it up, but do it. The thing that I think young guys do, and I know I did wrong, is when I go into bulk. I went into bulk, and I just ate all kinds of. It's like, don't.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes.

[Garrett]

Oh, that's so true.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, I know. Just don't do that. Just eat healthy. You're never. You got a really good base right now, and it. You don't need to go one extreme. The other, extremely. You're either cutting like crazy and. And getting shredded and feeling like. Or you're dirty, bulking and eating garbage. Like, eat healthy. Eat whole foods. Hit that 27, 2800 calories. Follow Matt's power lift and watch what happens and just be consistent.

[Adam Schafer]

You know, the reason why we. We, you know, because here's what happens when you eat a bunch of garbage. At first, you don't get fatter. You just get stronger and bigger. So you're like, oh, that's what I've noticed it's working and then it's. Before you know it, you start and I spill over. Yeah. You just gain a bunch of garbage. Yeah. Wait, so. Yeah. Yeah.

[Garrett]

I've also noticed another thing, like now that I'm going into my third year, food has definitely been one of those things where I'm feeling it. I don't know if it's just because I was a little younger and I could handle it, but I can't. I can't eat, you know, the garbage food and then go into the gym and get strong. It's just not. My body's not responding to it. And the way the food makes me feel like it's to the point where my brother would ask me like, for. To have something of, you know, whatever food, like a bad food. It's just like I can't. Like in the back my mind I was like, I can't do it because, well, I want to, but it's just the way it makes me feel. Like my lips aren't going up and all that stuff. It's just, it's very concerning. And I've been actually trying to hone in on the diet. For sure.

[Adam Schafer]

A good bulking meal for, for most, for anybody, but for, especially for a.

[Sal DeStefano]

Kid, steak or beef and rice.

[Adam Schafer]

You take some ground beef. Yes, ground beef. Make yourself a bowl with rice. Ground beef. Throw some avocado and cheese in there.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

And you've got like a clean, easily digestible. You eat that three, four times a day, throw a shake, morning time, throw.

[Sal DeStefano]

Three, four eggs on it. Lunch and dinner, eat it like, I mean, that's a, that's a go to meal right there.

[Adam Schafer]

Yep.

[Laurent]

Okay.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Garrett]

Now do you guys, you guys, there's been a lot of like, I've been kind of confused about my protein. Especially on social media. People like oh, point eight or oh, one point five.

[Sal DeStefano]

You're good.

[Garrett]

Oh my God, you're good. I just. Okay.

[Sal DeStefano]

200 to 300 is perfect for you.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay, that's great.

[Garrett]

Now, in terms of carbohydrates, I have noticed if I over indulge on it, I, I feel more sluggish in my workout.

[Adam Schafer]

Sure.

[Garrett]

Like if I eat over 150, I feel sluggish compared to if I eat 60 or 7. 60 or 70?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

A day.

[Garrett]

Is that like normal? No, no. Like before my workout.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah, that's a good amount.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes. A lot of people are like that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

So also, also pay attention to like what you're choosing for those carbohydrates. Too. I imagine if you're doing rice and fruit, you probably feel really good. Maybe if you're doing things like bread, pastas, and.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, avoid gluten. That typically makes people feel like garbage.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

But let's say you're gonna. Okay, let me. But if you're gonna do 100 grams or 120 grams of carbs before your workout, in two separate meals is typically okay. All on one meal. And. Yeah, you're gonna feel kind of.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay. Yeah.

[Garrett]

Now, like, let's say I'm at 2700, and I. I hit a plateau, like, in weight. Like, do I increase it, like, by 100 or 200?

[Sal DeStefano]

200, easily.

[Adam Schafer]

But look at your strength, dude. If you're getting stronger and your weight isn't going up on the scale, just could be.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, you could be leaning out and getting strong.

[Adam Schafer]

You just be patient. Here's what happens. Okay. You're going to get stronger, stronger, stronger, stronger, Boom. Weight on the scale. Stronger, stronger, stronger, stronger. Boom. Weight on the scale. It's typically how it works. So you're like, I'm not gaining weight, but I'm getting stronger. And then next thing you know, boom, two, three pounds will pop up on the scale.

[Sal DeStefano]

Garrett, I'm going to have. I'm going to have Doug send you maps Power Lift, and then I'm also going to have him put you in the private forum them. And so.

[Garrett]

I'm already in the private.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, then just check, bro. Just check in with us.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah, okay.

[Sal DeStefano]

Just check in with us as you're going through it. Let us know, hey, I've been at this kind of weight plateau. Maybe give us some picture updates, tell us what's going on, and then we'll tell you from there.

[Adam Schafer]

What are your lifts at, Garrett? What's your squat? Deadlift and bench?

[Garrett]

You know, so that's the thing. I don't go for PRs that much anymore, to be honest.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's all right.

[Garrett]

It's very hard for me to hit a PR at this moment. Like, especially in my training, it's been very hard. I'll be lucky to add five, ten pounds to the bar, but I. I've been doing three plates on a 25 pretty consistently with squat. Bench is like two plates and a ten for six to eight.

[Adam Schafer]

You're crushing.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, you're strong, bro.

[Justin Andrews]

You're gonna get.

[Adam Schafer]

You're gonna build some muscle on Power Lift, bro, with some calories.

[Garrett]

Now, for my deadlift, I try not to overdo it because I do work an active job, and I Do notice in my back but for deadlift I try to do like four plates on each side for like six to eight. I usually try to go for the six rep range. Anything above that for me I tend to get like those lacking nagging pains or whatever.

[Adam Schafer]

Why not? Why bodybuilding? Why not powerlifting? You're strong.

[Garrett]

Well, yeah, that's the thing. Well I, I was most, most guys my age, they injure themselves and they aren't in the fitness anymore. And for me powerlifting at most guys I see around, they injure themselves and then they're out. I'd rather just be, hey, I, I.

[Sal DeStefano]

Got nothing wrong with you doing bodybuilding. I, I like what you're doing. I like that you're not chasing PRs. I like that you're built you where you're at right now, you're struggling.

[Adam Schafer]

Disagree.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh bro, you're disagree. You're doing good, you're training well.

[Adam Schafer]

Let's, let's all vote. Let's see Justin. Yeah, let's all vote.

[Sal DeStefano]

I'm the only body power in here. Doesn't work that way.

[Adam Schafer]

Here's what, here's what you would do to not injure yourself. You put, you be smart. Yes. And aftermath power lift. Follow symmetry, very methodical with it and then get back into power lift and then follow symmetry or performance.

[Sal DeStefano]

You don't have to chase PR and.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, I mean just for a while. Here's the deal dude, he gets into bodybuilding, he's going to have happen. You're gonna, next thing you know, you're want to get on gear, you're gonna do all kinds of unhealthy crap with yourself. So.

[Justin Andrews]

And you can have their catches.

[Adam Schafer]

You could train like a bodybuilder for a while to give your joints a break. There's nothing wrong with that. But competing in bodybuilding.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Garrett]

So like I don't know if you guys can feel this but for me I used to go in the gym and like my training style was different and I, I, you know, train failure, all that kind of stuff, unhealthy stuff. And then, and then I kind of changed my mindset where I'm just happy where I can go in the gym, express my ranges of motion and feel good and all that stuff and I love that. It's definitely changed over the different, it's changed over the couple months and now that I've watched you guys, I watch you guys pretty consistently and, and it's nice to have that kind of mindset.

[Adam Schafer]

I, I think you're going to gain 10 pounds of muscle pretty quick, like, in a few months is what I think.

[Sal DeStefano]

Just check in with us. Garrett, you're doing. You're doing great. We're going to set you up with power. Lift.

[Adam Schafer]

Lift.

[Sal DeStefano]

I think.

[Justin Andrews]

Keep getting strong, man.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's it. Yeah.

[Garrett]

I was gonna ask. I was gonna ask one more question, One more quick question, if you don't mind.

[Sal DeStefano]

Go ahead.

[Garrett]

It's mainly for Adam. Like, I. I was listening that your chest was your weak part. Do you have just, like, in terms of just an exercise for the lower part of the chest? I feel like I'm like, that lower. That lower chest.

[Sal DeStefano]

I think. I think building the upper chest ends up making the lower chest look so much better. I think that's a.

[Garrett]

Okay.

[Sal DeStefano]

I think a lot of guys end up doing, like, decline bench, and they do the cable flies, and they're doing everything to try. If you get really strong on the incline, how strong is your incline bench?

[Garrett]

I'd say, like, two. Two or three plays. It depends on the day in between that range. Like, I'm not really pushing for weight.

[Adam Schafer]

I can't believe it, bro. You're going to do great.

[Justin Andrews]

You're strong.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

You're really strong. Yeah. Weighted dips. Weighted dips are great. So if you. Yeah. If you don't do weighted dips, I'd say that's a great movement. But you just. Dude, part of this is just muscle maturity, too. You're only. You're a baby, dude.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, you're.

[Sal DeStefano]

You're still. I mean, your physique at 22 is way better than what my physique was at 22. So you just keep going.

[Adam Schafer]

You're not gonna peak till you're, like, 30.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, dude, you got. You gotta.

[Adam Schafer]

You got a long way. Eight years of really good gains.

[Sal DeStefano]

It just keeps. And here's the thing. With a good relationship with exercise and a good base that you have, and you get a good relationship with eating and you just stay that court, you're gonna look back five years from now, and you're not going to recognize your physique. You're going to look like a whole different.

[Adam Schafer]

Be patient.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. It just takes time. It takes. It takes. But I tell you what, you stay on this path, 25, 26, you're going to look back, and you're going to look like a monster compared to what you look like right now. So a lot of it is that. Dude, just keep doing what you're doing.

[Garrett]

Right?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yep.

[Garrett]

Well, thank you, guys. I want to say, once again, thank you for all of you guys. I see. I see myself in all three of you, and I've actually. I've actually watched a lot of your episodes, and I just want to say thank you, guys. You guys are probably the only people in the fitness space, I feel, that gives out positive information on health and fitness. Especially, like, people my age, they have a negative output on what fitness and health should be like, and I wanted to thank you guys for that. You guys have truly changed my life.

[Sal DeStefano]

Appreciate that.

[Adam Schafer]

Garrett, you're a good man.

[Sal DeStefano]

Thank you, buddy.

[Justin Andrews]

Awesome, dude.

[Sal DeStefano]

Thank you.

[Kara]

Thank you.

[Sal DeStefano]

We'll see you in the. Hey, we'll see you in the forum. Okay.

[Garrett]

Okay.

[Sal DeStefano]

Thank you. Take it easy, man.

[Garrett]

Appreciate.

[Sal DeStefano]

He's a good, good kid, man.

[Adam Schafer]

He's strong mentality.

[Sal DeStefano]

He's like two or three plates on incline.

[Adam Schafer]

Just keep going, dude. Yeah, if he's bumps his calories, I mean, he's gonna be okay.

[Justin Andrews]

That's the thing, you know?

[Adam Schafer]

Here's the thing.

[Justin Andrews]

Get those calories up, and he'll have fun with it.

[Adam Schafer]

I remember as a kid not understanding this, because what do you always hear? Like, a man peaks and is, you know, 18 to 22. And. Yeah, you listen, you lift weights, do a good job. You're not gonna hit your peak physique till you're 30.

[Sal DeStefano]

30, 30, 30.

[Adam Schafer]

It takes a while.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yes, yes. And where he's at. Where he's at at 22, his leg development, his strength, dude, he's gonna be. He's gonna be a beast.

[Justin Andrews]

Keep pressing that notch, dude.

[Sal DeStefano]

I hope what he does, though. I hope he into your point about bodybuilding. I hope he doesn't jump the shark and get on gear to speed up that process. Because, man. And if I. Garrett, you hear this dude? This is the part where I. I'm not a fan of bodybuilding. I love the bodybuilding training. I love the dieting aspect of all that, but the desire to win a trophy, and I know that also, even.

[Adam Schafer]

If he's gonna get on gear, it would be stupid to do it right now.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, no use. Yeah, use up that. All that natural potential right now. So keep going the way you're going. Stay natural as long as you can, if you can. I'm not even a big fan of you getting on a bodybuilding show just because the temptation to want to hop on. If you want to win, you're. You probably have to. I mean, it's unfortunate, but everybody in the. Unless you do a natural league.

[Adam Schafer]

League.

[Sal DeStefano]

Everybody. That's true. Yeah, I know, right? So doing great, though, man. Our next caller is Laurent From Montreal, Canada.

[Adam Schafer]

Hey, what's up, man?

[Sal DeStefano]

How you doing?

[Justin Andrews]

Hey, guys.

[Laurent]

How are y' all doing?

[Sal DeStefano]

Good, Very good. How are you?

[Laurent]

Very good. I'm so excited. So weird to be like everyone says.

[Adam Schafer]

How can we help you?

[Laurent]

Well, I would like first, if I can, to start off with some thanks to you guys. Me and my wife, we love you guys both so much. We talk about you guys almost daily. People make fun of us because we.

[Sal DeStefano]

Talk about you guys so often.

[Laurent]

And one thing that we really like, it's your balanced view on fitness. The way you share it, it's attainable, it's sustainable for everyday people like myself. I also really like prime and Prime Pro. I've had some not injuries, but, like, pains that I was able to address myself. So that was life changing. So that's so great. You guys are really empowering people with their health and fitness journey.

[Adam Schafer]

Thank you so much.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Laurent]

And one last thing before I start. The Elite Trainer podcast is awesome.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, cool.

[Laurent]

I'm not a trainer myself, but I own my business. And the tips and tricks that I hear there, I love them so much. Kyle is doing a great job, so really.

[Adam Schafer]

Thanks, man. We'll share that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, let them know that.

[Cheryl]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

All right.

[Laurent]

So for a little background about me, I'm a window cleaner. My job is really demanding. I work all day and I've tried multiple of your programs, Maps, Anabolic Symmetry. I've done performance and even aesthetic, which was a big failure. But right now, what fits my Lifestyle Best is Maps 15. Anything else feels like it overtrains me, so. So that's really where I need to live. I've tried other, like switching even Michael Matthews programs, but that was still too much for me. So basically my question is, since I'm always going to do this program, trying to do some variations I've heard multiple times. Well, once in one of the last podcasts, you guys said that rest period, sometimes if it's just one minute, they tend to be too short. You wouldn't really go below a minute 30 of rest periods. But the whole Maps 15 program, even the 5 by 5, is only a minute. So I'm wondering, how can I progress my max lift with those rest periods?

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, if you have the time, give yourself, like, follow the protocol, but give longer rest periods. The idea of this rest, short rest periods was because we were constrained by time. Right. So if we were riding that for somebody like you who's like, that's the appropriate volume for me. But I really want to build strength, and I do have more than 15 minutes in the gym. All I would do is I would just extend that time. And then you will watch yourself get a lot stronger by giving you a better rest period.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, and here's the other thing too. When it comes to rest periods, generally speaking, that's true, but a minute rest is. Isn't bad. You'll get a little bit more strength, stamina out of it. Some people build great muscle on it. Bodybuilders sometimes train that way. I can train that way sometimes. It's. So don't overthink. I wouldn't worry too much about it. I think, think. But I do think if you.

[Sal DeStefano]

But if you got the time, though.

[Justin Andrews]

If you got the time drinking on intensity, I mean, that's kind of the factor. I would, you know, toggle between that and a little bit longer rest.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah. Give it a shot. And it's a good idea to change it up anyway.

[Sal DeStefano]

I mean, I. This is how I run our math 15 is. I run a mass 15 protocol most the time, but I just give myself longer rest periods. So it's no longer maps 15, it's more like maps 35 minutes. So, you know, it extends it like that. But that's kind of how I like to train. I mean, that's kind of where I'm at right now is that type of volume. And I just extend it out because I don't necessarily necessarily only have 15 minutes. So if you've got the time to extend it out and that's the appropriate volume, that's exactly what I would do with you, is just give you longer rest periods and it'd be great. And I think you'll notice a difference. I think you'll be able to stack more weight on there. Yep.

[Laurent]

Yeah, exactly.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Laurent]

Mid rest is short. I love the compound lifts, deadlifts, bench press. With just one minute rest is like, I don't feel like I can progress anything. It's pretty much only endurance.

[Adam Schafer]

That's right.

[Laurent]

But that's great. And what would be the time period? So I just. I went through Maps 15 on the minute rest period. Now I'm like, when should I change it? Should I do like two minutes or.

[Sal DeStefano]

Go all the way through?

[Laurent]

How would you guys alternate?

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, I go to go to two or three minutes, see what happens.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, okay.

[Laurent]

Three minutes for the whole thing?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. If you can do that, go all the way. The other extreme, I think you'll get great benefits going the opposite the total in the other end of the spectrum. So if you're one minute, go to three minute if you can.

[Adam Schafer]

Yep, yep.

[Laurent]

Excellent, excellent. So second question concerning as well Maps 15 was wondering, I'm sorry for my English, how to add some volume because I've also heard you guys say that nine sets per body part is also ideal. So I was looking at it. It's maybe my, I'm understanding it wrong. But let's say for arms, I don't know if I'm getting nine sets. Let's say for arms, triceps, biceps and forearms. Let's say I would like to develop my forearms more. So how would I modify.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, there's a couple things to consider. Right. If you're progressing then it doesn't matter, you're doing great. But if youlet's say you go to the two or three minute rest period and you're now lifting more weight as a result, that means your volume has increased. So volume isn't just sets. Volume also includes reps and weight as well. So if you go down to 2 minute rest period and you now added 10, 15 pounds, 5 pounds to your lifts, your volume, your volume is automatically.

[Sal DeStefano]

Careful.

[Adam Schafer]

That's right. That being said, you know, there's nothing wrong with throwing like one or two sets for your forearms at the end of a few workouts. You could do that.

[Garrett]

Okay.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay.

[Laurent]

So because the lagging body parts I feel I have that I would like to like maybe most guys is my arms. I do feel they don't follow. I have a big frame, but I don't feel my arms fit with my big frame. So I, I'm wondering how like I've also heard you guys say you. I can prioritize it like hit it first but then I feel like my big lifts suffer.

[Adam Schafer]

Of course.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, so of course they will.

[Adam Schafer]

You could look, there's a couple ways you could do it. You can do the train arms first or what I would do is I would reduce, I would cut one set out of a compound lift and add maybe a couple sets to my arms.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, wherever where your strength is. Right. So maybe you're a good bencher, you have a good chest or maybe that's back or maybe that's legs. Pick one of the, pick one of your, your better lifts or your what you would consider your strengths. So maybe that's your back or what? And reduce one set and then you swap it. Yeah. And then add two sets of arms in there and you can literally superset buys and tries. Yeah, you do that in, in the, in the routine and that's adding more volume to arms and it's not going to overdo. Overdo it. You'll be good right there.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay, perfect.

[Laurent]

How many times would you add it? So, yeah, I, I maybe follow. Do it five to six days a week. How many times would I, or how. Yeah, how many times did I add volume? Let's say to my. To not overdo it as well.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, I mean, anytime you're doing your arm, anytime there's an arm exercise, you could add a set or two.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, well, it's all compound lifts.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, right. Yeah. I would add it to two or three days out of the week.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, yeah. Two, three days is plenty. Because you gotta remember this when you're, when you're doing those big compound lifts, those buys and tries are getting work too. So it's not like you're neglecting them.

[Adam Schafer]

Them.

[Sal DeStefano]

So those. That's what makes like tracking volume per muscle a little difficult because, you know, technically the arms are getting some volume when they, when they do, when you do bench and when you do rows and all those movements. So they're getting work. So you don't need to go nine sets of pure bicep curls and tricep, say, dips or something. You only need to do another four, maybe another four to five total sets in the week. And that's going to increase the attention to the arms dramatically because you're still getting that attention on all those big compound lifts too. So literally two or three days of adding two sets of, you know, some buy and try work at the end of your workout. I think that increased volume will be more than enough to see those, those, the arms come up for that.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay.

[Garrett]

Yeah, great.

[Laurent]

I still. Sorry, if you guys are up on time still concerning maps 15, like, I love when you guys go like, you do small episodes on like the best exercises for biceps or triceps or whatever. I still don't know how to mix that up in my trainings. Do I, like completely switch one, one exercise out and use one of those? Because you talked about a routine like the best bicep routine, and you have three exercises, like just for biceps. So is there a way for me to use some of that or stick to compounds?

[Adam Schafer]

No, no, no, no. So whenever you're doing a direct arm exercise, I mean, pick, pick from one of those three. It's, it's so think elbow position more than anything. So a bicep exercise where your arms are by your side, maybe one where your elbows are behind your body, maybe one where they're in front of you. So what that would look like is a standing barbell curl, an incline curl, and then a preacher curl. That would be an example of different elbow position. The same thing with triceps by my sides in front of me, up by my head. And so you can just kind of rotate them.

[Sal DeStefano]

I mean, I don't. Off the top of my head remember exactly what we said that was. But I do remember we did exercises that might be an easy way for you to do this, by the way. Just like with salsa do. So three days a week, I think we did three exercises for the three best. For your arms, do one one one of each of those. Do one. Do one for one for buys, one for tribes on one day. On another day, do the. The number two one for each of those. And then the third day do the number three one. So those are. You take. Take all three of those and make that each individual day and then just do two sets of. Of each of those exercises.

[Laurent]

Perfect. So they don't need to be all lined up in the same workout?

[Sal DeStefano]

No, no, no, no. Not at all. Not at all. In the week. It'll be perfect. Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Spread them out.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's a great way to add it.

[Justin Andrews]

Yep.

[Adam Schafer]

Great.

[Laurent]

Well, that's. I love it. Thank you, guys.

[Sal DeStefano]

All right, man. Appreciate this.

[Laurent]

I really enjoyed your time. Yeah, no, it's our pleasure. Have a great time. Thank you for having me.

[Adam Schafer]

Thank you, man. All right.

[Laurent]

All right, bye.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, I like. We get callers like this because you see young man fit and you think, is Mass 15 enough? Yeah, yeah, I know. Great results. Yeah, most people will get great results on that kind of a protocol. Always surprising. Yeah, it's just so much less than what you would see put out by the fitness industry as an effective workout. But it's very effective.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yep. Our next caller is Cheryl from California.

[Adam Schafer]

Hi, Cheryl. Hello.

[Cheryl]

Hi, guys. This is like a girls night out with some of my favorite people.

[Adam Schafer]

Thank you so much.

[Justin Andrews]

We're on a date.

[Sal DeStefano]

How you doing?

[Cheryl]

I'm happily married, I have to say.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, good.

[Justin Andrews]

Sorry. Sorry.

[Cheryl]

I don't want to throw my head under the bus. Well, thank you so much for having me. I so appreciate this. It took me some nerve to write this. So this is written after a few martinis. So I'm just going to see how. I.

[Adam Schafer]

Can'T wait to hear this.

[Cheryl]

Hi. Mind pump. Both my kids are now at college and so I found myself with a lot of time this past summer and fall and ended up taking on two endurance type activities that I fell in love with and want to continue. One was to paddle board around Lake Tahoe and the other was to hike around Lake Tahoe on the Tahoe Rim Trail. These then led me to want to hike most weekends now between 10 and 25 miles. I was hoping to go into a reverse diet this fall and build quite a bit of muscle over the winter. I'm not sure how to balance these two goals of endurance and building muscle or even if that's possible. With winter coming, I'll definitely be lowering the amount of steps I have each week. But I see myself trending this way for the next several years where I have a to focus on strength and a summer to focus on endurance. I'm just not really sure how to eat to maximize both. I'm five four, currently 140 pounds. I'm a 54 year old woman and thank you so much for your guidance. You guys certainly have been in my ears all throughout Lake Tahoe basin.

[Adam Schafer]

Wonderful. This is great. By the way. It's a very sober sounding email.

[Sal DeStefano]

I wonder if you ever run into my sister. This is her favorite thing to do around Lake Tahoe. She paddle boards around Lake Tahoe like every. Every weekend.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. By the way, Cheryl, following the seasons, the way you're doing it is so healthy. Yes, it's so healthy. It's great to go into a strength season, build muscle, then you're into something that's more stamina.

[Sal DeStefano]

Love the endurance activities you're choosing. Paddle boarding and hiking is awesome.

[Adam Schafer]

So, so here's the thought process for both. Fuel the activity. What some people will do is they'll think more in terms of like gaining weight, losing weight, but really fuel the activity. So what's the goal when you're trying to build as you get stronger? What's the goal when you're out there hiking and paddleboarding? To have the energy to enjoy what you're doing. So diet wise it's not going to change a ton unless it's like oh, I want to get leaner or whatever. Otherwise you're just fueling the activity.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, where it could change, I don't want to say a ton, but when you do your endurance stuff, 10, 25 miles, she's probably gonna end up having to eat a good 3 to 500 more calories.

[Adam Schafer]

Sure.

[Sal DeStefano]

During that time of the year versus when you're winter, way less steps and activity and just strength training. Even though strength training and to build muscle will require a calorie surplus also.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, so, so I've trained a few people like this and what it looked like was the, the food intake looked similar. It's just that the calories went to building in one season, the other one went to activity. So. And you look like you're pretty fit. You look like you have a good body fat percentage. Do you have an idea of what your calories at are at, generally speaking?

[Cheryl]

Yeah. So I'm one of those women who I think has under eaten a lot in the past years and I keep listening to you guys and I keep, you know, trying to do the reverse diet. I'm currently up from probably 1500 calories to about 2050. The problem is I've, I've gained probably five pounds. And this is, I'm going to say since August, I've gained 5 pounds and about 4% body fat. So I know I'm not doing it right. And then on the other end when I'm in strength building and I'm trying to eat, I did a, like a year and a half of weight training with a DEXA at the beginning and a DEXA at the end of that. And I only gained one pound of muscle and one pound overall weight.

[Adam Schafer]

Was that at 1500 calories?

[Cheryl]

That was going again at another phase from 1500 to about 2,200 at that point.

[Adam Schafer]

That's usually a programming issue. If that's the case, I think keeping you around 2000, following a good solid strength training program I think is going to be. And I think what you'll see is body comp change. Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

What did you do in August when you increased the calories? What's the strength training look like? Like, were you, you, were you following anything of ours?

[Cheryl]

Um, so in August I was still mostly hiking and I started doing maps 15 just to kind of. I just felt lost because I had kind of given up. When summer hit, I just kind of went full on backpacking. I was really outside in the wilderness all the time. So my food and all that was kind of. I don't even know where it was. It just was backpacking food.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Cheryl]

And so I feel like I, I don't really know where I was for June, July, in August when I started back up, I was, was at about 1600, I guess. And I've been building up calories since then and now I'm at about 20, 50.

[Adam Schafer]

You know where your protein's at?

[Cheryl]

Yeah, I'm at 135 for protein.

[Adam Schafer]

You're doing great. Yeah, you're doing great. And so are you, are you about to go into just strength training right now? Are you done with the other stuff?

[Cheryl]

I wanted to. I just feel like when I'm. Every time I go in, I'm. I'm increasing how much I lift. So I know I'm getting stronger. I just really was not. It wasn't really great to hear that I only gained one pound of muscle, and that's really what I want to do. I really want to be in that mindset.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, but you gained a pound of muscle while hiking and how much.

[Cheryl]

No, this was. Well, this was over a summer as well. But this is from like, I'm going to say May of one year to like, so a whole year and a half of weight training with the summer in there.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay.

[Cheryl]

And I only gained the one.

[Adam Schafer]

And how much strength did you go up? Yep.

[Sal DeStefano]

But I, I also want to, I want to comment on something just too, because in, in that period of time, if there was also hiking and hiking where you're doing like hiking foods, trail nuts, things like that, where you're probably. Your protein intake probably dip pretty low.

[Cheryl]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

There's a good chance you built more muscle and then it pared down during that time because you switch over to eating a lower protein diet, more endurance type training. And so it may be a little deceiving on how well you did. I think you might have done better and built more muscle. But then when you add in the time that the diet was off on kind of like trail food and you were doing that much endurance, you probably pared some of it down during that time too. So just consider that.

[Cheryl]

Yeah, that seems fair because I went into the summer kind of. My arms were pretty good. Like, I was feeling pretty good about them. And they're way different now at the end of summer.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, that's probably what happened.

[Adam Schafer]

So what'll. Here's what'll help guide you really well, Cheryl, is if you focus on performance the entire time. So when it's strength, I'm just trying to get strong. When I'm hiking and paddle boarding, I want energy and stamina. And just let that guide you. And your body's going to change through each season because focusing on strength is going to give you a little bit more. It's going to give you more muscle. You might even be a leaner. When you go out to paddle, board and hike, you'll probably lose some muscle. Body fat may stay kind of the same, but if you focus on how you look, that might take away from the enjoyment of what you're doing. So just focus on performance. So when you're trying to get strong, just get strong and let that be your guiding light. And then when it comes to the outdoor activities, like, man, can I, can I be out here for hours and just have so much fun and not be exhausted and just feel great and then fuel yourself accordingly. So increase your calories if your energy's low and strength isn't doing so well. And then programming wise, you know, in the winter, more like maps anabolic is probably gonna be the style of programming when you get into the season. Maps 15 is probably gonna be what you're doing, doing.

[Cheryl]

So, so even though like my, my amount of time at home or even in a weight room or anywhere near weights in the summer is pretty limited. Should I just jump in at. On the maps 15, wherever I'm at, just go to the next.

[Sal DeStefano]

Exactly. We just, that's how we would do it. Is like, it may not look like this perfect week of six workouts in the week. It may look like some workouts you get two workouts. Other workouts you get. There are other weeks you get three workouts. Sometimes you only get one. But just when you do have the time and you're back home and you didn't go for a hike that like get that max 15 workout in and just that frequency of, of lifting while doing that will help maintain the muscle that you built in the wintertime.

[Cheryl]

Okay. When I'm out hiking, like let's say I'm going to do a 20 mile hike. Like that's a pretty long day. And I, I felt like I was just trying to eat like I normally eat and, and just add in a little bit more protein. But I was about talking. Yeah. And I said carbs. He was like, just eat peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. Which just blew me. Like. Does that sound right?

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, listen, I mean you probably look, there may be healthier options, but peanut butter and jelly is palatable. Easy on the trail, easy to take on the trail. You know, if you need gluten free, that might help a little bit. But you know, what are you going to do? Bring a Tupperware with rice and you know that's probably not going to work. I'm telling you right now. Cheryl, I think you have a great attitude. I can tell you love the activity. You love doing these things. Fuel the performance. The rest will follow. Just think performance. If you get focused on the mirror and the scale and the body fat percentage, it's going to take away from what you enjoy doing. And what will happen is you'll get less of either. You'll actually get less results and less performance. So just fuel the performance. So it's like, how do I feel? Do I have Energy, do I have strength? And then the way you look as a result is going to be great.

[Sal DeStefano]

Great.

[Adam Schafer]

It's going to be great.

[Sal DeStefano]

Some, some things that will help you. I'm trying to just think because I, I, I know what will be the most challenge. I think you do really good in the winter time building the muscle. And then if we go completely off the rails with not hitting our protein intake and all this endurance training, a lot of that muscle is going to kind of go in that time and then you're going to get it back. You're gonna kind of play that game, which is by the way. Okay. And you'd be healthy doing that. But there's some strategies that we can do while you're hiking that I think will help preserve some of the muscle. Like I think beef jerky is a great choice. I think there's some high protein snacks that we just, we just partnered with Crisp power which has got these 25 gram pretzels that, so if you can choose some things that are snacks easy to carry, that are high protein for you, I think that will serve. I think you load up on carbs before the hike before you go. So you have like even the night before, the night before and the morning of like get a good carb meal so that you're fueled for that long hike. And then on the hike you're getting things like the, the Crisp Power, like the beef jerky, some of these like higher protein snacks that'll serve you.

[Adam Schafer]

And then you know another thing too, if you want to just carry, you know, you don't want to carry a lot of things with you and you want to help preserve muscle. And what you're taking with you are mostly carbohydrates or snacks that look like that. Essential amino acids are really, really convenient.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, that's another great choice too.

[Adam Schafer]

You could have like alike a little baggie with let's say 20 capsules of essential amino acids and then every few hours you take a few of them them and it's got a very, it's got a really nice muscle preserving effect. And it's just capsule so it's super light, super easy to take and you just take three or four of them every, you know, every other hour.

[Sal DeStefano]

I think you combine that advice with the beef jerky and the high protein snacks. I think we'll, I think we'll hold, I think we'll hold onto that muscle that you build in the wintertime.

[Adam Schafer]

Yep.

[Cheryl]

Awesome. That's a great suggestion. Thank you so much.

[Adam Schafer]

You got it. Thanks for Calling in guys.

[Cheryl]

Thank you.

[Sal DeStefano]

Take care.

[Adam Schafer]

Bye. Bye.

[Cheryl]

Bye.

[Adam Schafer]

I love that. I wish. I'm actually envious. I'm envious of people who have that relationship with fitness where they're just going out and having fun.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Because mine is like, it's fun but it's like really, I want to get, you know, push this, whatever. That's such a nice, healthy attitude. That's one that'll last for the rest of your life.

[Sal DeStefano]

I mean, it's such a different. I mean, as a, as a young trainer, I would screw this up.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

As a young trainer, I would, I would hear the. I want to build muscle and I want to hear this and I would like try and your gains. Yeah, I would switch everything to just trying to get to the goal that I hear versus recognizing that this lady has an incredible relationship with exercise right now and, and diet. She's in and in a healthy place and doing great activities that's going to serve her for many years to come.

[Adam Schafer]

That's right.

[Sal DeStefano]

And how dare I that up for, you know, one more inch on her bicep? A couple pounds of muscle like that would be a horrible trade off to, to lose this.

[Adam Schafer]

By the way, losing muscle isn't always a bad thing.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, that's why, that's why I made that point.

[Adam Schafer]

Losing muscle is, is oftentimes bad, but it's not always bad if you go from focused just on strength training to now I'm doing more mixed with some stamina and endurance like it's going to happen. The muscle loss that happens is an adaptation to make you better at what you're doing and you're not going to get these like crazy negative health effects.

[Sal DeStefano]

Right.

[Adam Schafer]

Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. We'll see you at Mind Pump Media.

[Sal DeStefano]

Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB super [e-mail] the RGB Super Bundle includes maps, anabolic maps, performance and maps aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs with detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos. The RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee and you.

[Adam Schafer]

Can get it now.

[Sal DeStefano]

Plus other valuable free [e-mail] if you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review on itunes and by introducing introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family.

[Adam Schafer]

We thank you for your support and.

[Sal DeStefano]

Until next time, this is Mind Pump.

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