2738: The BEST Isolation Exercises For EVERY Body Part

Summary

Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth

Episode 2738 | The BEST Isolation Exercises For EVERY Body Part

Release Date: November 28, 2025
Hosts: Sal Di Stefano, Adam Schafer, Justin Andrews, Doug Egge

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Episode Overview

This episode delivers an energetic, candid, and science-backed exploration of isolation exercises—their value, benefits, and how they fit into a comprehensive fitness routine. The hosts discuss their top isolation picks for every major muscle group, debate isolation versus compound lifts, and share practical, experience-based insights for lifters and trainers alike. The episode is also interspersed with anecdotes about family, diet, and the realities of life in fitness.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Isolation vs. Compound Exercises: Rationale and Debate

[03:21]

• Compound exercises are king for overall muscle development and CNS activation, but isolation moves play a crucial supporting role.
• Historically, bodybuilders argue over which is superior. The hosts admit there's room for debate:
  • Sal: “There’s still people in the bodybuilding world that actually will make the argument for this.”
  • Justin: “Is anyone going to argue that squats aren’t going to build more quad size than leg extensions?”
• Isolation exercises are indispensable for:
  • Beginners who can’t connect to target muscles in compound lifts
  • Adding targeted volume without excessive fatigue
  • Developing lagging or stubborn muscle groups
• Sal: "I used isolation exercises with everyday clients primarily to help them feel and connect to muscles that they couldn't otherwise really connect to on a compound lift." [05:26]

Clarifying "Isolation" Exercises

[07:43]

• True isolation (moving just one joint, only activating one muscle) is a myth; other muscles always stabilize.
• The best term: "Emphasis" rather than strict "isolation".
• Sal: “The best bodybuilder in the world at mind-muscle connection cannot isolate a muscle. He still will have supporting muscles firing somewhat.” [08:37]

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Best Isolation Exercises for Each Body Part

Chest

[09:13]

• Incline Dumbbell Fly gets top votes for upper chest development and teaching scapular retraction/depression.
  • Justin: “I’m gonna go with an incline dumbbell fly for me... it helped with shoulder stability... and from an aesthetic perspective, it looks better to develop your upper chest.”
  • Adam: “I like cable flies for just that consistent resistance... it’s a connection thing.” [10:48]

Back

[11:40]

• Cross Bench Dumbbell Pullover is the unanimous pick, offering stretch, shoulder mobility, and real-world carryover.
  • Justin: “The range of motion, the shoulders, the stability, the mobility, and the carryover... I would bet has a lot of carryover to the real world.” [12:03]

Delts (Shoulders)

[13:31]

• Rear Delt Fly (especially bent-over reverse cable fly) is crucial, both aesthetically and functionally.
  • Justin: “Build your rear delts, not your side delts. You build nice rear delts, you got round looking shoulders.” [13:41]

Biceps & Triceps

[14:29]

• Biceps: Preacher Curl (Justin), Seated Concentration Curl (Sal), Spider Curl and Incline Curls are also discussed.
  • Sal: “The only reason why I even balk at preacher curls... is because I remember how I used to do them as a teenager... not loading it fully.”
• Triceps: Overhead Rope Extension is the favorite.

Glutes

[15:59]

• Hip Thrust is most “isolation-like”—though technically a compound move, it’s closer than alternatives.
  • Justin (joking): “I can hump a house, dude. I could put 600 lbs in the bar and crush a hip thrust.” [17:14]
  • Sal: “If you compare [the hip thrust] to a lunge, a step up, a squat, deadlift... it's by far [more isolation].” [16:44]

Quads

[18:17]

• Sissy Squats and Leg Extensions: Both are close to isolation, though sissy squats require caution (risk for injury if not done correctly).

Hamstrings

[19:27]

• Romanian Deadlift beats out leg curls for best hamstring isolation.
  • Justin: “That’s as good as it gets, right? You win. That one’s it.” [19:52]

Core

[20:23]

• Long Lever Physio Ball Crunches: Delivers intense abdominal activation.
  • Justin: “These will light up your abs like nothing else.” [20:36]

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Program Design Takeaways

[21:01]

• The “Great Eight” refers to major compound lifts; isolate after you've built a foundation.
• Isolation exercises are best layered in as you get more advanced or need to address specific weaknesses or mind-muscle connection gaps.

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Lifestyle, Nutrition & Parenting Anecdotes

Protein Intake & Family Meals

[21:54]

• Stories about eating two pounds of meat a day, Butcherbox orders, and teaching children healthy eating habits.
  • Justin (on kids): “My son gave back the buns and the fries and ate just the meat... he just loves meat, doesn’t care for buns.” [25:06]
  • Sal: “Average person thinks they're eating a lot of protein... because they eat a turkey sandwich or an egg or two…” [23:12]

Parenting, Independence & Boundaries

[38:47]

• Discussions around letting kids develop independence, “no questions asked” rule for trust and safety, and giving children room to make decisions as they grow.

Addiction, Recovery & Personal Experience

[42:56]

• Adam details his personal battle with kratom withdrawal and the value of support networks, such as Rock Recovery Center.
  • Adam (on peer stories): “For the first time in my life, I understand the AA meetings now... I probably watched 50 recovery videos... it gave me strength through.” [47:23]

Gratitude & Teamwork

[49:23]

• The hosts share their gratitude for each other and the journey of building Mind Pump.
  • Sal: “None of this would be possible [without you guys].”
  • Adam: “Faith without work is dead. He can give you all the gifts in the world, but if you don’t take action... they don’t happen.”

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Listener Q&A Highlights

[53:08] – Healthy Toddler Foods

• Berries, cheese, nuts, meats, gluten-free chicken nuggets. Emphasize consistency; avoid hyper-palatable options to foster diverse, healthy preferences.

[59:09] – Changing Rep Ranges in MAPS 15

• You should adjust rep ranges and weights; 6–15 reps is ideal per set. Increase weight if reps feel easy.

[61:44] – Building Muscle in a Deficit

• Technically possible, but challenging—body resists adding muscle in a calorie deficit due to evolutionary survival signals. Focus on retaining muscle; building is rare unless deficit is mild.

[65:00] – Managing a Large Client Load as a Trainer

• For 17 clients, leverage existing program templates (like MAPS), streamline processes, and prioritize adaptability in real-time sessions over elaborate pre-programming.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Sal DeStefano (on bodybuilding dogma):
  “The best bodybuilder in the world at mind muscle connection cannot isolate a muscle.” [08:37]
• Justin Andrews (on rear delts):
  “Build your rear delts, not your side delts. You build nice rear delts, you got round looking shoulders.” [13:41]
• Adam Schafer (on glute training):
  “I can hump a house, dude. I could put 600 lbs in the bar and crush a hip thrust.” [17:14]
• Sal DeStefano (on parenting and trust):
  “If you don’t do that, [kids] won’t come to you... it’s such an important thing to establish with your teenagers.” [42:28]
• Justin Andrews (on gratitude and the team):
  “Without you guys, this wouldn’t exist at all.” [49:12]
• Adam Schafer (on faith and effort):
  “Faith without work is dead. You can have gifts, but if you don’t use them, they don’t happen.” [49:23]

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Timestamps for Major Segments

| Segment | Timestamp | |-----------------------------------------------|------------| | Host intro / Episode setup | 01:11 | | Main debate: compound vs. isolation | 03:21 | | Definition of isolation/“emphasis” exercises | 07:43 | | Chest: Incline dumbbell fly vs. cable fly | 09:13 | | Back: Dumbbell pullover | 11:40 | | Delts: Rear delt fly | 13:31 | | Biceps/Triceps: Preacher, concentration, rope | 14:29 | | Glutes: Hip thrust | 15:59 | | Quads: Sissy squat vs. leg extension | 18:17 | | Hamstrings: Romanian deadlift | 19:27 | | Core: Physio ball crunch | 20:23 | | Integrating isolation into programs | 21:01 | | Nutrition: Eating high protein | 21:54 | | Parenting: Teaching independence | 38:47 | | Addiction: Kratom recovery insights | 42:56 | | Teamwork & gratitude | 49:23 | | Q&A: Toddler nutrition | 53:08 | | Q&A: Rep ranges in MAPS | 59:09 | | Q&A: Building muscle in deficit | 61:44 | | Q&A: Managing many clients as a trainer | 65:00 |

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Tone & Style

The Mind Pump hosts keep it casual, honest, and filled with anecdotes and practical wisdom. Banter, teasing, and humor are constant (“I can hump a house, dude”), but beneath it is deep knowledge, empathy for clients and listeners, and a focus on evidence-backed training.

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This episode is a must-listen for anyone looking to optimize isolation exercises, understand their precise function in fitness, and layer them sensibly on a foundation of compound movements. Both new and advanced lifters—and trainers—will find actionable takeaways and relatable moments.

Transcript

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Mind Pump Mind Pump with your hosts.

[Podcast Host / Announcer]

Sal Destefano, Adam Schaefer and Justin Andrews.

[Justin Andrews]

You just found the most downloaded fitness, health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump. In today's episode we answered questions that people posted on our Instagram page, Mind Pump Media. It's a good time. By the way, this was after our intro. Today's intro is 50 minutes long, so we talk about fitness and fat loss and muscle gain, family life. It's always a good time. Again, if you want to post a question that we can pick, go to Instagram. Mindpumpmedia this episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Butcherbox. They bring meat to your door. High quality meat, grass fed meat, wild caught fish, chicken, pork, sausage, gluten free nuggets. You name it, they have it. And it's great prices I should say. Go to butcherbox.com mindpump New users will receive their choice of New York strip, ribeye or filet mignon in every box for free, included for an entire year. Plus you get a discount with that link. This episode is also brought to you by Rock Recovery Center. If you go to rockrecoverycenter.com mindpump they are giving away a scholarship. This is a rehab facility. So if you or a friend or family member is struggling with addiction, go there, fill out a form, see if you can get a scholarship. By the way, they help everybody so everybody's going to get some help. So if you need questions answered, just go do that. Also right now everything is 60% off. Black Friday 60% off. Every maps workout program, every bundle of programs, everything is on sale. Go to mapsfitnessproducts.com, use the code Black Friday for the discount. By the way, every and every purchase gets you right now. Triple entries. Three times as many entries for the contest. Two people get a week vacation at the Mind Pump Park City House. Fifteen people get personal training. Ten people are going to get the opportunity to hang out here at Mind Pump Studios. It's awesome. And again, everything's 60% off. Maps fitnessproducts.com the code is Black Friday.

[Adam Schafer]

You guys, real quick, I just want to mention we got a sale. It's up to 25% off equipment and select apparel on our store right now. There'll be $5 items as well. Sale be from November 20th. November 30th. Go check it [e-mail] yes, compound lifts.

[Justin Andrews]

Are the best, but there's isolation exercises you should do as well. We're going to talk about the best isolation exercises for every body part, what they are and why you should include them. There might be some debate. I didn't even list what the exercises are. Let's see if you all agree.

[Adam Schafer]

Isolated.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, there's even some debate. I mean, there's still, there's still people in the bodybuilding world that actually will make the argument for this.

[Justin Andrews]

What do you mean? That these are the. Isolation is the way to go. Better.

[Sal DeStefano]

Really? You don't remember that? You know, even our good friend Pikulski.

[Justin Andrews]

Makes that argument that they're better. Yes. Really?

[Sal DeStefano]

You don't remember? Yeah, he's, he's big, you know, Cable fly for pec development over squeeze.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, I don't know about that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, no, no, I don't. Yeah, so, so there's, there's, there's still room, there's. I, there's room for debate here too, if you like.

[Justin Andrews]

You know, there's. I, I think that there's definite value in isolation exercise, but there's, I think.

[Sal DeStefano]

He'S built so much muscle he forgot.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, that's right.

[Sal DeStefano]

He's so jacked he forgot bend over.

[Justin Andrews]

And touch his shoes. You know, I think builds muscle. Part of it is part of it. CNS activation plays a role here, Right. The more muscles are involved, the more force that you're having to produce, the more each muscle tends to get activated. Now, this is kind of not really the way to explain it because if you look at like muscle activation, you can't really see this. But I mean, seasoned lifters and coaches know this part of it's the carryover for functional strength. The other part of it is just. I mean, is anyone Going to argue that squats aren't going to build more quad size than leg extensions.

[Sal DeStefano]

No, they will make that with hack squats.

[Justin Andrews]

Still, compound lift, Right. It's not isolation. But that being said, isolation exercises have value. They don't cause as much damage. They allow you to connect to muscles that you might otherwise have trouble connecting to. This is where I think there's a lot of value. So I used isolation exercises with everyday clients primarily to help them feel and connect to muscles that they couldn't otherwise really connect to on a compound lift. So they might have trouble feeling their chest in a bench press, but I could get them to feel their chest with an isolation exercise. Now, isolation exercises, when it comes to, like, people who are more advanced, it's great ways to add volume without tons of demand and stress. I mean, you can only do so many sets of squats before you fry yourself. But you can throw in isolation exercise to add a little volume that doesn't cause nearly as much pain.

[Adam Schafer]

You can really build up lagging muscles and body parts.

[Justin Andrews]

Right.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. So there's definite value to that, even just from an overall strength perspective. But, like, I think the most valuable thing from, you know, the performance side of it is connecting to that process and adding that into the overall compound level.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, I agree. In fact, many of my clients, I started with isolation exercises first because of the. The level they most mostly are at. It was rare that I had somebody hire me who had, you know, decades of experience in training and had great mechanics and squatted and never the case. Yeah. So almost always, you know, the first time. And I remember learning this early, early on, my principles are compound lifts are better. Start off with the bench press, start off with the squat, start off with these movements. Then you realize these people, they don't feel it, they don't do it. Right. Like, what am I doing? You spend a whole hour trying to communicate that. So later on in my career realized, like, oh, you know, I almost always taught an isolation exercise first specifically for the reason of getting them to feel the muscle before I switch them over to. Which is very counterintuitive if you've listened to the show for long enough, because all of our programming is not that way.

[Justin Andrews]

Right.

[Sal DeStefano]

If I'm programming for somebody for the best results, then, yes, the big compound lifts first. But if I also am in the same, you know, breath, if I'm training somebody who's got little to no experience, and the first time they get under a barbell to squat or deadlift, and you ask glute activation yeah, they're like gluten.

[Justin Andrews]

Glutes.

[Sal DeStefano]

I didn't feel anything in my glutes or chest. I just fill in my arms and my shoulders. And so that client does really well with teaching them isolation exercises first. So they can feel that muscle work properly and then getting that. Understanding that connection working, then going over the compound list.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. So I. For people aren't familiar. Isolation exercises are exercises that primarily move just one joint. Compound lifts use two joints. So a press, elbows and shoulders. A lateral raise would just be shoulders, or a tricep extension would just be the elbow. That being said, you don't really ever purely isolate a body part. Other body parts are always involved in stabilization, holding things. And so it's kind of a myth that it's called isolation. But for the sake of this episode, isolation exercises are typically single joint exercises.

[Sal DeStefano]

I'm so glad you brought that up, because this used to be one of my biggest pet peeve. The arguments with people that try and make claims of isolating a part of a muscle. It's like you can't even isolate a. You can't even isolate a muscle.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

So to the peak. Exactly. Let alone the. This part of a muscle.

[Justin Andrews]

15 of fibers. Right.

[Sal DeStefano]

Is a ridiculous thought process in itself. So I'm glad you brought up that even isolation exercises are not true. I try to say emphasis. We're putting emphasis, as much emphasis as we can on this muscle because this is impossible to isolate. A. The best bodybuilder in the world at mind muscle connection cannot isolate a muscle. He still will have an antagonist muscle and surrounding muscles that are supporting it firing somewhat, even if most the load is being taken by that anchoring your.

[Adam Schafer]

Feet into the ground.

[Justin Andrews]

So.

[Sal DeStefano]

So. So that being said, anybody who tries to tell you they're isolating a part of a muscle is even crazier.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, that's right. All right, so let's start with chest. Uh, let's talk about our favorites. I'm gonna go with an incline dumbbell fly for me. Now, I like incline dumbbell fries because I noticed with my clients, it helped with shoulder stability. It helped them get a good deep range of motion and stretch. A lot of people are tight across the chest. And then from an aesthetic perspective, just because it looks better to develop your upper chest now, why not a cable fly for me or a pec deck, which are great, by the way. I think those are great.

[Sal DeStefano]

It would be. I would argue with you right there is those are the top two.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. I would. So. So I could go either way. But the reason why I like a fly is it loads the stretch, and you see a lot of hypertrophy benefits of correctional exercise benefits in that. Oh, so you could talk me out of it.

[Sal DeStefano]

So that's not why I like it. So I. So, I mean, I'll just double down for why I like it. I like. I always like the incline chest fly because what it does to the shoulder girdle naturally. Because gravity. It's one of the hardest parts about teaching a client to, like, say, do a bench press. Right. A compound movement for the chest is their ability to retract, depress the shoulder girdle, and keep it in that position as they press forward. And there's something about being in an inclined position with heavy dumbbells point.

[Justin Andrews]

It just kind of. It throws you there.

[Adam Schafer]

It kind of puts you there.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Gravity kind of pulls the scapula back and down, which is that natural place you want to teach a client to get into. And so for that reason is why I really like this exercise over chest flies. Cable flies, although cable flies would be a close second, in my opinion. Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

I mean, I would agree with that. I like the cable flies for. For just that consistent resistance.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yes. However. Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

So I. I understand, you know, the argument with the stretch, you know, the loading, the stretch. But two, like, there's. There's value to that consistent, like, muscle tension.

[Sal DeStefano]

So they can. They're constantly thinking about the chest all the way through. That's why I.

[Adam Schafer]

A lot of connecting to that, which I. I.

[Justin Andrews]

If you have trouble connecting to your chest, y. You want tension at the squeeze. Right. And a cable fly will do that because you're here bringing them together, someone with poor connection, you have them focus on that squeeze in the middle. They tend to, you know, be able to feel their chest. It's funny, that's one of the few cable exercises I see you doing consistently.

[Adam Schafer]

I know, I know. I love it. And it really is. It's just a connection thing. Like, and I want to make sure that I'm. I. It's a feel. I feel my way through that, but I do when I'm not, like, incorporating that, and then I go to do bench. Like, I notice the difference for back.

[Justin Andrews]

For me, cross bench, dumbbell pullover.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, interesting.

[Justin Andrews]

That's your go to isolation. It is. Well, it is a. This. Okay. A dumbbell pullover, cross bench.

[Sal DeStefano]

I mean, it's the only real. I guess now that you say that, it's only the only one that really isolates anything.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

So anything else you can make a Case that.

[Justin Andrews]

But it's not just that, because you could do a straight arm pull down or a rope pull down, and it's a similar movement.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, but the pullovers are better than that.

[Justin Andrews]

But. Well, I mean, cross bench, dumbbell pullover. Just the range of motion, the shoulders, the stability, the mobility, and then the carryover. This is one of the few quote unquote isolation exercises that I would bet has a lot of carryover to the real world. I know it did for me in grappling and judo and jiu jitsu.

[Adam Schafer]

You know, I just like too, that it. It's closely related to the tricep as opposed to the bicep.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Right. So it's like a diff. Totally different feel because normally everything that I'm doing for pulling and gripping, I'm feeling a lot of bicep.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, I think it's important the audience knows this too. There's like, name it. I mean, name all the isolation back exercises. There's only a couple.

[Justin Andrews]

There's not many. Yeah. I don't know, is there any more.

[Sal DeStefano]

Pullovers and pull downs? Name me another one.

[Justin Andrews]

You can do a scapular, you know, shrug or something weird that nobody ever does.

[Sal DeStefano]

So, I mean, at first I got a knee jerk reaction from you, but then I thought about that for a second. Well, wait a second. There's. There's not many true isolation exercises. The back is such a big muscle with different muscles that you incorporate different parts of the back and almost every other traditional lift. So just so the audience knows that that's not Sal making the case that, oh, it's better than a row, it's better than a pull up. Those are all compound.

[Justin Andrews]

We're saying isolation.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Those are all considered compound lifts that, that obviously would make the top of the list, but there's not a lot of isolation exercise. If I had to pick one isolation exercise for the back, like, the pullovers aren't even a close second. It's. It's the king of that for sure.

[Justin Andrews]

All right, now we're getting to delts rear flies for me. And it's because everybody likes. I love that you picked that everybody like side laterals. And I get it. But from a. This is one of those few times when I can go both aesthetic and functional and corrective. It's the best. People need to strengthen that separating out movement. They need to strengthen the rear delts. It's good for shoulder stability. Then aesthetically speaking, if you want round delts. We've said this so many times on the podcast. Build your rear delts, not your side delts. You build nice rear delts. You got round looking shoulders. So it's like both for aesthetics and function.

[Sal DeStefano]

I mean, I don't think anything. I. I don't know what episode we did recently where I brought up the bent over reverse cable fly pull through that. I do. I don't think anything beats that for an isolation exercise. For the rear delts, I mean, it puts you in the fully stretched position. You got constant tension all the way through it. Yeah, I. You. No, no arguments for me. That would be number one for sure.

[Justin Andrews]

Now we'll go biceps and triceps. Now, technically, almost every exercise is isolation for. There's a few compound lifts, but I guess we'll just pick our favorites. For biceps, preacher curl. For triceps, overhead tricep extension. But we don't need to spend a ton time here unless you guys have a favorite.

[Sal DeStefano]

My debate would be concentration curls. Over. Over that. Seated concentration curls would be.

[Justin Andrews]

I like those. I haven't done those in a while. Spider curl is another good one. Yeah, I haven't done a while. Justin doesn't do anything. I don't even know what they're called.

[Sal DeStefano]

He's like, what's sitting on an incline.

[Adam Schafer]

Bench and I'm letting them hang.

[Justin Andrews]

Incline curls.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Incline.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, dude.

[Adam Schafer]

That's what I like.

[Justin Andrews]

What about triceps? You like overhead rope?

[Adam Schafer]

I like overhead rope.

[Justin Andrews]

Overhead rope, yeah. That's a really.

[Sal DeStefano]

The only reason why I, I even balk at preacher curls because I think preacher curls are amazing is because I remember how I used to do them as a teenager when I was young is one. I would not take it through four.

[Justin Andrews]

No, you got to go all the way.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, yeah. Right. I would, I would not go all the way down and load it all the way and. And use a lot body rock and momentum to get it up just so.

[Justin Andrews]

I could put on an actual lock in, go full. Full extension.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, it's really like the. The where I feel like it's a little more traditional to do like your basic concentration.

[Justin Andrews]

Do you do the Arnold bent over concentration curl or the arm inside the thigh concert?

[Sal DeStefano]

Inside the thigh.

[Justin Andrews]

Okay. Yeah, yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

The Arnold prison style.

[Sal DeStefano]

I mean, I tell you, when I, When I, When I was. When I was jacked and feeling myself, I did the Arnold style.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

You'll find me doing it inside my thigh, though, if I'm doing it.

[Justin Andrews]

That's great. All right. Glutes, you know, can you call a hip thrust? You can't.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, I would.

[Adam Schafer]

That's like, the only way to isolate. I mean.

[Justin Andrews]

I mean. I mean, no, there's donkey kickbacks.

[Adam Schafer]

No hip thrust I can't get on board with.

[Justin Andrews]

But a hip thrust is technically compound, right? Because the knee joint. With the hip joint, I mean, it's not a lot. And you could load the heck out of a hip thrust. Like, you could lift more weights, extension.

[Adam Schafer]

But, yeah, there's not a lot going on at the knee.

[Justin Andrews]

You know, we're going to piss off some people. I'm sure Brett Contrera is not going to like this, but I would kind of make it more isolation. The compound. It's technically not, though. It's a compound lift.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, listen, if you're doing all the other glute compound lifts, that's got to be.

[Justin Andrews]

That's this. That's closer to isolation than the other ones. Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

If you compare that to a lunge, a step up, a squat.

[Justin Andrews]

Deadlift.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, deadlift. I mean, it's by far. The hip thrust is.

[Adam Schafer]

You're just gonna get a weird exercise. Outside of that, I feel like, to try and isolate your glutes.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, you're doing, like, the. Like the. Like the kick, you know, version. Or.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, it's like.

[Justin Andrews]

Which, by the way, dude, I could. I could hip thrust so much weight, I don't even know. I did not know I was good.

[Sal DeStefano]

What a great, weird flex. I'm so glad you're bragging about this.

[Justin Andrews]

Listen to me right now. Listen.

[Sal DeStefano]

Let me hear you brag about this.

[Justin Andrews]

I was. I. I can.

[Adam Schafer]

You guys, I can hump a house, dude.

[Justin Andrews]

I could put. I could put £600 in the bar and crush a hip thrust, dude. Now, I'm so.

[Sal DeStefano]

I hope Dylan edits a clip of you doing it with, like, a tutu.

[Justin Andrews]

On or something, dude. List.

[Sal DeStefano]

So cool, bro.

[Justin Andrews]

Listen, I made fun of them for so long. I shouldn't have. I didn't know they were as good at them. No, I feel like I need to.

[Sal DeStefano]

No. Okay, now.

[Podcast Host / Announcer]

Okay.

[Sal DeStefano]

Complete transparency then, since you are the only person that cares enough to do them that much. The other carryovers from it. What do you. So it makes your deadlift.

[Justin Andrews]

My deadlift went up. Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

For sure.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. And my butts, you know, this is.

[Adam Schafer]

More on the extension.

[Sal DeStefano]

You notice the difference in your butt? Does your wife notice that?

[Justin Andrews]

She says. She keeps talking about my butt, so I guess, yeah. She said it looks like it's made out of wood.

[Adam Schafer]

Depends on the amount of stuff.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. Like, I carved out of wood is what she said. I don't know, like a.

[Sal DeStefano]

Interesting compliment. Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Because wood can be flat.

[Justin Andrews]

No, like carved out of wood. Maybe my skin's brown, so it kind of looks just partially racist. Like oak. What do you mean, babe? It's not going to know. It's solid.

[Sal DeStefano]

All right, all right. Okay. All right.

[Justin Andrews]

I don't know. But anyway, hip thrust, I guess. Quads, 60 squats.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. No argument here.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, that'll light those quaddies up. Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Leg extensions is boring.

[Sal DeStefano]

Now, wait a second. I mean, is it you? So because you got the. The hip, the knee, and the ankle all kind of involved.

[Justin Andrews]

It's still just knee. It's still just a knee.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Okay, listen, if you can call a squat in isolation, then you could definitely call a hip thrust because there's as much play in the knee and ankle in. In the squat as there is in it.

[Justin Andrews]

But, you know, the thing with the. You know, you brought up leg extensions for injury correctional exercise, for certain applications. Leg extensions are great. Sure, they're really great. You can't sissy squat.

[Adam Schafer]

No, I use.

[Justin Andrews]

If you're trying to fix injury problems because you're going to mess yourself up. Yeah. With the cc.

[Sal DeStefano]

So. So those two have to have an asterisk because you're going to have the, you know, biomechanic police come in and be. Well, no, technically, you know, they got a badge. Yeah, there's definitely that. There's definitely. The Internet's got those kids, you know, can't wait to tell you you're wrong.

[Justin Andrews]

That's not an isolation exercise.

[Sal DeStefano]

So technically there is, but I mean, it's close to an isolation exercise. As you can. Those two. I would throw them in there, so I'll take that.

[Justin Andrews]

All right, let's go. Hamstrings. What do you guys think? Do you guys like seated or leg curls better? Which one do you guys like better?

[Sal DeStefano]

Is it. Is a lying. Is a Romanian deadlift not considered isolation?

[Justin Andrews]

It is.

[Sal DeStefano]

Romanian deadlift wins.

[Justin Andrews]

It is, right?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yes. And you're lost.

[Adam Schafer]

It's just hip.

[Sal DeStefano]

You're in a locked position and you just slide the hips out. That's isolation, bro.

[Justin Andrews]

That's as good as it gets. Yeah, that's good.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's as good as it gets, right?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, you win. That one's it. That's it. You can't beat Romanians.

[Sal DeStefano]

No, no, definitely not. And you should be in a.

[Justin Andrews]

Also a good butt one.

[Sal DeStefano]

And you're. You should be locked out.

[Adam Schafer]

You wouldn't like a good morning.

[Justin Andrews]

Good mornings are great. But you know what's problem With.

[Adam Schafer]

I mean, I prefer Romanians, but I'm.

[Justin Andrews]

Just saying, you know what the deal with. I love good mornings. The problem with. With. With good mornings, though, is if you don't have good control and stability, it's like people turn it into some weird.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, I know you gotta.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

I mean, it's. It's definitely have the prerequisites before you.

[Justin Andrews]

Do that for sure. And most.

[Sal DeStefano]

Most people that do heavy. Heavy. Good mornings are. It's almost like a. Between a squat and a good.

[Justin Andrews]

That's right. Yeah, that's right. You got a lot of knee flexion. All right. Core, long lever, physio ball crunches. Do these right? These will light up your abs like nothing else. But no, that's my pick. Yeah, I like those.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, I like those.

[Justin Andrews]

All right.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay.

[Sal DeStefano]

How many is that? 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. It's 9. Huh.

[Justin Andrews]

Decline.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, I was just thinking about how, like, I would blend this with my. Our grade eight.

[Adam Schafer]

You know, you're turning into great nine or ten.

[Sal DeStefano]

No, no, no. It's just like.

[Adam Schafer]

So let.

[Sal DeStefano]

Like, let. No, imagine this is the evolution to the grade eight. Is that you. You start to add these later. So it's like you follow. Great.

[Adam Schafer]

Phase two.

[Justin Andrews]

You.

[Sal DeStefano]

Exactly. Or longer, maybe you follow grade eight for a solid couple months. And then as you. Because remember, grade eight's all good. All the good compounds.

[Justin Andrews]

Right?

[Sal DeStefano]

So you got a while to get really good at those. And then as you can handle more volume, you.

[Adam Schafer]

These are all the isolation single joint movements.

[Podcast Host / Announcer]

Huh?

[Justin Andrews]

Trickle. Trickle them in.

[Adam Schafer]

Trickle them in.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Wouldn't that be a good idea?

[Adam Schafer]

I like that a lot.

[Justin Andrews]

Giving away our secrets. Good stuff. I had friends over the other night because.

[Sal DeStefano]

You have friends?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, I do.

[Sal DeStefano]

Besides us.

[Justin Andrews]

We were there. I know.

[Adam Schafer]

Congratulations. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Other friends. No, I had. I had people come over because I told you guys, I went to that concert and so they had dinner with us and we were all hanging out, and so a few of the. A couple of the couples. This was the first time we hung out with them. And my wife made. My wife's like, really? She makes these lamb chops that are just famous, right? She makes them so good. So she made these lamb chops. She does this dish.

[Sal DeStefano]

We go.

[Justin Andrews]

She goes, pasta with pesto, lamb chops and asparagus. It's like her. Her go to. And we're all talking about the meat, and they're like. And so we talked about, like, how much meat do we eat? So, like, one guy's like, oh, my wife needs to eat More meat. Sal talked to her like, sal, how much meat do you eat every single day? Do you want me? Like two pounds? Like around two pounds, bro. People looked at me like, like two pounds of meat. You eat two pounds of meat a day? Like, yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Did you flex for them afterwards?

[Justin Andrews]

No, but I mean, that's where you flex. Yeah. What do you think?

[Sal DeStefano]

You just got here? Think carbs did this?

[Justin Andrews]

Well, this isn't from rice. You know what, though? Whenever I talk to people outside of our fitness. Right, right.

[Sal DeStefano]

They think that's crazy.

[Justin Andrews]

It is crazy that people like that because it's so much people protein.

[Sal DeStefano]

This is the reason why we hammer this on the podcast so much because of course I always know, like, we have like, we have a, like a divided audience. We have hardcore fitness people that listen to this because they're hardcore fitness people. And then we have people that are being introduced to fitness that are listening to us. And the hardcore fitness people think it's like, of course I eat that much protein. Of course is a gram of protein.

[Justin Andrews]

Per pound of body weight.

[Sal DeStefano]

All the time. Yeah, all the time. No problem. This and that. And I eat lots. It's like, dude, the average person thinks they're eating a lot of protein because they have dinner with. They have a.

[Justin Andrews]

They have one piece turkey sandwich. Yes, dude. Cool. He had 10 grams.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yes.

[Justin Andrews]

Or an 80.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, they had an egg or two for breakfast. And so they're like protein eaters.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, so we were talking about this and they're like, how do you, like, you know, how does this work? So I started talking about butcherbox and you know how they deliver all this meat and they're like, do you eat all that meat that they send you?

[Sal DeStefano]

We more than we are on top of that.

[Justin Andrews]

We get meat on top of the butcher box. I was, yeah. Just kind of breaking it down. And I'm like, we blow through the tri tip that they send.

[Sal DeStefano]

I've never actually. Have you ever tried to calculate the amount of pounds of meat you get when you.

[Adam Schafer]

I haven't.

[Sal DeStefano]

When you get in the box, we're order.

[Adam Schafer]

I don't know, because the kids are eating.

[Podcast Host / Announcer]

Really depends on what you're ordering.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, I get the big box.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Podcast Host / Announcer]

But I mean, if you ordered the chicken versus ordering like ribeyes, for example, you're going to get more chicken for a pound, pound wise than you are ribeyes.

[Sal DeStefano]

It'd be just interesting. I'm sure on the box has got the net weight on there.

[Justin Andrews]

I wonder what.

[Sal DeStefano]

I'm just curious what. Yeah, I'M kind of curious until you said that because I. I always. I thought when we first started getting them, I thought like, why. I remember telling Katrina like, why is our grocery bill? So she's like, you really think that butcher boxes lasting us because they send.

[Justin Andrews]

Us a 200 something dollar box?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, yeah. No, we have.

[Justin Andrews]

That's for the whole family.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, I mean I have a kind.

[Justin Andrews]

Of a small family. What's going on here, Adam? That's just you, Katrina, Max.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, but we eat a lot of protein. Oh, my son. Dude, I love my heart. So this weekend was my birthday and my. His best friend's mom. We celebrated on Friday, both Katrina and I together. And she's like, hey, I think I'm gonna have Julian's parents who, who's Max's best friend's parents, who we really like a lot of just pick him up from school and keep him till like 8 or 8:30. And then she'll, she'll bring him home like that. And so throughout the party, Katrina was getting all these pictures of him, you know, eating popcorn, have a movie night. And they, they ordered hamburgers in and he, he gave back the buns and just ate the meat.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh God.

[Sal DeStefano]

And it's.

[Justin Andrews]

It is.

[Sal DeStefano]

I did not teach him to do that. My son just loves meat. Doesn't care for buns.

[Justin Andrews]

That's so great.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, it doesn't care for buns. Turned down pizza last night. It's just like. And rather have the tri tip steak.

[Justin Andrews]

So I'm sure parents are. Oh my God. He's got the fitness dad.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, I' they think that.

[Justin Andrews]

Are they tyrannizing this?

[Sal DeStefano]

He told so that his dad, his dad's really cool. His dad's like, he's like, you don't want the bun or any, or any of the fries or anything. He's. He's all, no, I'm kind of a meat guy. So Carlos, the dad starts laughing. He's like, I'm a meat guy too. I like it, you know, so that.

[Justin Andrews]

But it's like my son went to Sunday school the other day and they're like, oh, tell him it's his. You know, he's telling us. He's like, mom, tell him it's my birthday. They give us a lollipops. We're like, all right. So we tell him, you know, it's his birthday. So he goes in there, we're in the service, and one of the people comes and finds us in the service. And she's like, is this lollipop okay. He asked if it had red dye in it. Like, oh, yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

He asked about the red dye.

[Justin Andrews]

He's like, they gave him a lollipop. He's like, wait a minute, does this have red dye in them or whatever? And blue dye this.

[Sal DeStefano]

I made the same mistake. Max always asks now all the time. I'm all embarrassed. Like, oh, God, I went too far with that one.

[Justin Andrews]

I didn't mean to do that. But, hey, dude, hitting. Listen, we've said this on the show many times, and I don't eat. I always eat high protein, but I've made a conscious effort. Typically, I fall around 190 grams of protein a day, give or take. But lately I've been trying to go 220 consistently because I weigh about 215ish pounds. So I'm like, you know what? Let me. And I'm lean, so it's not like I'm, you know, I'm hitting close to lean body weight. So I'm. I'm aiming for an additional 30, 40 grams a day. Big difference.

[Sal DeStefano]

You do.

[Justin Andrews]

Really big difference. Just that extra 30, 40 grams.

[Sal DeStefano]

I always noticed that.

[Justin Andrews]

And it's not like I was eating low before. It's just that extra serving and it's not a lot of calories because it's really lean. I'm only adding a couple hundred calories. But so much work, dude. It's a lot, dude.

[Sal DeStefano]

So much work.

[Justin Andrews]

I have to add shakes.

[Sal DeStefano]

I'm. I'm. Only when I'm bodybuilding mode, did I. Did I ever be that? Was I ever that consistent with 230 grams plus.

[Justin Andrews]

But I noticed strength right away. I noticed recovery right away. I got noticed. Sleep. Sleep. Yeah, right away. That's the selfie I sent you guys when I made a joke. I'm like, look at this, guys. All natural herbs. But it's because I've been hitting protein.

[Sal DeStefano]

Justin blew it up.

[Justin Andrews]

Does anybody put wallet pictures anymore? Do you guys ever use that?

[Adam Schafer]

No.

[Sal DeStefano]

I told you.

[Adam Schafer]

Girlfriend, right?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

The Olen Mills pick.

[Justin Andrews]

My girlfriend from.

[Sal DeStefano]

I have. I have a box from high school still that have all that stuff still in there.

[Justin Andrews]

You saved them?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, I saved him this whole time.

[Justin Andrews]

Pictures of.

[Sal DeStefano]

So here's the thing, though. I did. I dated a girl. My girlfriend. My.

[Justin Andrews]

Wait a minute. What are these pictures of all your ex girlfriends?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, they're all in there, too.

[Justin Andrews]

Wow.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Like their volleyball pick where they're like, yeah, totally.

[Sal DeStefano]

No, the cheerleader only like this and their legs are crossing the back.

[Adam Schafer]

All right, this one?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

You know. Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

So I mean, so the two girls I did in high school, my sophomore girlfriend and my junior senior girlfriend, all were like photographer chicks.

[Justin Andrews]

So this is before everybody. Every phone had a. Yeah, yeah, you.

[Sal DeStefano]

Gotta remember that, right? So like they literally like carried cameras around. Like one of the. The girl in sophomore was. What's it? ASB Was in part of that and was like the whatever one was part of yearbook and taking pictures camera all the time we were dating, so she took pictures all the time. And then my next girlfriend was a.

[Adam Schafer]

Card during the yearbook though.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, Ye. And then the next girlfriend was hardcore to photography. So. Yeah, I have this just big shoe box that's just overflowing of like photos.

[Justin Andrews]

You guys have your yearbooks?

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, yeah, of course.

[Justin Andrews]

Why haven't we brought them in? I don't know.

[Adam Schafer]

We haven't. You know, it's funny is to read people's comments.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, it's so funny.

[Sal DeStefano]

I had a stupid thing I signed.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, oh, what did you say?

[Sal DeStefano]

Life is a joke. Laugh it up.

[Justin Andrews]

Wait, this is your thing.

[Sal DeStefano]

That was my thing, dude.

[Justin Andrews]

What made you decide?

[Sal DeStefano]

I don't know. Oh, I have no idea.

[Adam Schafer]

That should be profile.

[Justin Andrews]

Come on.

[Sal DeStefano]

I was a teenage kid.

[Justin Andrews]

You know what I'm saying? Like, I have no idea. This would be cool. This would be cool in 30 years. So I'll be back. Real cool guy. I don't. I'm sure I wrote Italian style on 90% of whatever I wrote. Oh, my God. Oh, my God.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yes.

[Justin Andrews]

This is a good lesson for kids. Everything you do now, you will hate in the future. You're dumb. As cool as you think you are, you're gonna think I probably wrote some.

[Adam Schafer]

Beavis and Butthead thing or something stupid. Remember how stupid? Like the shows you watched back in the day. I. I was getting angry because of my kids. Like, you know, they're. They're into some like, stupid spongebob or some. Like. There's some new show that's like a cartoon where it's just like the. It's just.

[Justin Andrews]

So is it friendly?

[Sal DeStefano]

Something friends.

[Adam Schafer]

Something friend.

[Justin Andrews]

I knew it. Yeah, I knew they watched that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yes, they love it.

[Justin Andrews]

And I'm like, something friends.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, it's hilarious.

[Adam Schafer]

It is funny. It's really dumb. But it like brought me back and.

[Sal DeStefano]

I was like, what is it, Dylan?

[Adam Schafer]

We were into really dumb shows.

[Sal DeStefano]

You know something?

[Justin Andrews]

You're already too old. It's on Am. I want to say it's on Amazon. It's something friends and it's Amazon and anti. And it's so random and So I sent. Did I send you guys a clip? So you'll find clips of this show, and you can't even believe some of the stuff they do.

[Adam Schafer]

It's while.

[Sal DeStefano]

Is it because it's so politically incorrect? Is it because it's so random?

[Justin Andrews]

Random.

[Adam Schafer]

It's just random and dumb and it's.

[Sal DeStefano]

What would you guys compare it to? Because we, like, Beavis and Butthead was random and dumb, too.

[Adam Schafer]

It's kind of like Stimpy.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

But like, there's one where the guys go. So these are like. They're like Rent a Friends. So they go to cheer people up.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

And that's their jobs. And there was one episode where one of them goes to hell. And he's like, stuck in hell, and he makes a deal with. With the devil. He's like, if I make you laugh, like, can I leave? He's like, yeah. And the devil's like this really angsty dude, like. Like, he's like, on a. He's playing video games. He just gave up. And everybody in hell is like, dude, he's not himself. He doesn't like torturing anyone anymore. You got to cheer him up. And he's just in there playing video games and he's, like, ordering doordash, you know?

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

It's so dumb.

[Adam Schafer]

So that's still a thing.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, I love it. That's a good one.

[Sal DeStefano]

You remember, do you. Did you have, like a sign off? Do you remember your sign off, like, yearbook? I bet you did.

[Adam Schafer]

I totally did. I totally. I don't remember what I said. It was really dumb. I'm sure it was like, something like. Something about, like, party or whatever. Like, what?

[Sal DeStefano]

Party?

[Adam Schafer]

Party? Yeah, Party on. Like. Yeah. I was like, Wayne and Garth or something, like, party on. Like, with like a Hang loose. Like, I'm just like, cool.

[Justin Andrews]

I don't remember.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's probably signed the Italian style, something like that.

[Justin Andrews]

It was something like that. I can guarantee. I mean, I think yours wins, if that's what it is, because I still do it. I stuck with it.

[Sal DeStefano]

Mine is.

[Justin Andrews]

Mine was like, probably some sort of.

[Sal DeStefano]

Like, hidden trauma front.

[Justin Andrews]

You know what I'm saying?

[Sal DeStefano]

Like, I mean, those are like, rough years, for sure.

[Justin Andrews]

My laughter.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, no, totally. I'm seriously, like, if I think about, like, okay, I'm trying to think of.

[Justin Andrews]

We're talking.

[Sal DeStefano]

I'm like, why would I even say that? And I'm like, I probably said it because those were hard times for me at home.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, that's sad.

[Sal DeStefano]

And so home. It was just like, I Just was. But I had such a, I had such a positive attitude, though. Like, I didn't. And so that's what that was. But that's probably a lot of that is.

[Justin Andrews]

That's sad, bro.

[Sal DeStefano]

No, it's not.

[Justin Andrews]

I was talking.

[Sal DeStefano]

I was a very happy kid. Yeah, very happy kid.

[Justin Andrews]

You are resilient as hell. I was talking with someone the other day about, she was thinking about stuff she did when she was 15 and how, you know, she's like, I know it was supposed to be traumatic, but it really wasn't for me until I had a 15 year old kid. And then I, and then I, for some reason I said, what if that happened to my child? And then she's like, oh my God. And there's this, I don't. There's a psychological phenomena where if, when you think back to when you were a kid, you can't not have your current mindset and wisdom. So when you think back, like, yeah, it wasn't that bad when I was 15. It was. You're just thinking of it now with your.

[Sal DeStefano]

I told you that just happened to me. I told you that. I don't. I didn't share that on air, but Adam Lane Smith interviewed.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, that's right.

[Sal DeStefano]

And, you know, asked about my, Myself, like as a. Or no, not Adam Lane Smith. This was. Thank you. Larry Hagner from Dad Project asked me. That totally caught me off guard because I remember when I turned the age that my dad was when he committed suicide. And my entire. So I was seven when he, when he, when he took his Life. So from 7 all the way to my 30s, if you asked me about it, I could comfortably just talk about it. No big deal.

[Justin Andrews]

And not.

[Sal DeStefano]

That was no big deal, but it's just that I dealt with that. I hadn't thought about it a lot. Didn't really weigh on me much. I mean, in fact, most of my life I was used to growing up without him and, and whatever.

[Justin Andrews]

Right.

[Sal DeStefano]

But the year I turned the same age that he did, when he had, he had committed suicide, it hit me different because I'm now that age and I'm thinking, God, to exit right now, like, and this is, I mean, this is 32. So this is. Well before Mac. I'm just barely dating Katrina at the time, but life is good. And I'm, and at that time, I feel like there's so much more ahead of me. And I'm like, man, I couldn't imagine going on then. So fast forward. Larry Hagner's in here and he's interviewing me. And he also. His father committed suicide. So we have that in common and we've talked about. I've had a couple good episodes. Episodes with him before getting into that deep stuff. And he hadn't seen me since. Since right when Max was born. It was the last time I interviewed them was almost six years ago. And he's like, he brings up my dad's stuff again and then he goes, you know, have, have you thought about. Your son is almost the same age as you were when he took it and boy, like.

[Justin Andrews]

Because now you can see. Yeah. Wild.

[Sal DeStefano]

It hit me like a ton of bricks. Because when I thought about it as a 32 or as his daughter, it like I thought about the most that year of my life and I thought, oh, wow, I can't believe he exited like this. But it didn't hit me like a ton of bricks. It hit me like a ton of bricks. When I mean, it was like, I remember on air, I paused like for a really long time and I was like, like who? Like, I hadn't thought about that because I had never tried to look at it through my own lens. Yeah, I was looking even when I thought about it with my dad, I thought about it through his lens at 32 as a man, as a grown.

[Justin Andrews]

Man and where I'm at my life.

[Sal DeStefano]

Not as a little innocent child.

[Adam Schafer]

Perspective of a kid.

[Sal DeStefano]

So to, to put it in perspective.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. Because now you see yourself.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, I see myself. Oh my God.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, it just, it, it took me back, dude. It took me back and I went, whoa. I was like, what a different hit.

[Justin Andrews]

It's a really good exercise for people. We've all been through stuff, everybody has. Some more than others. Think back to those challenging moments and then, and then imagine it happening to someone that you know or care about. That's that age. It's. You can really, really understand the trauma versus looking back at your current state of mind.

[Sal DeStefano]

You know, what's a trip about it, Sal? That because I did a lot of like unpacking right on it, that really tripped me out was that when I was that age, when that all happened, I felt like I was the mind of a 15 year old or like, or 18 year old, you know, so like that, as crazy as that sounds, but I, I, I, I thought I had so much more responsibility. I thought I understood so much of the world. And then I see how innocent my son is like a kid. Oh, he's just a, he's like a. Still a baby to me. You know what I'M saying, he's so. So innocent. So. But then also makes me like, whoa, there's a lot going on in that brain. More than just because he talks about simple things and stuff like that. That. Those wheels. Because I know what my wheels were turning when that happened in my life. And I know how much of that time I remember that I go, whoa. Like that. So it took me back in. Double, double way. One, it put me in. In, like, looking through my own. Trying to look through my own eyes through my son at that age. Like, holy. That's crazy how young that is for that to have happen. And then two, it was.

[Justin Andrews]

Boy, I remember a lot going on.

[Sal DeStefano]

And thought a lot. And, like, I thought I had deep thoughts.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

So, like, whoa, He's. He's got deeper thoughts than you think.

[Justin Andrews]

Totally. I. I was thinking about just because my. What my daughter's about to get her license and drive. And I think back to the crazy things I did in a car back then. And as an adult, I'm like, oh, my God, that was crazy. Now that I have a kid who's going to drive. And I think, like, if she did that. And then I realized, like, I was a child, what was I thinking? And it puts things in a different. Completely different perspective. Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

But it's also good, too, to, you know, building that practice, because a lot of times we can be like, I can't believe they did that. That you, like, forget that. Like, the wild shit that you did and still survived. But it is, like. It's scary, man. I'm going to that same thing. Like, with the driving.

[Justin Andrews]

Yes.

[Adam Schafer]

Like, it's really. It's really eating at me. And it's like, well, he's gonna be fine.

[Sal DeStefano]

You know, everything's.

[Adam Schafer]

And there's gonna be a lot of benefit to it, but it's really, like. It puts the brakes, I think.

[Justin Andrews]

You're so confident.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

I'm like, so when I was 16.

[Sal DeStefano]

I was so now with all. With you guys, I imagine, because you. You actually are. I know you. You can tend to be more, like, nervous about that than you. You're the one who pushes Courtney. Right. When it comes to, like, let him be free. Let him figure it out. Right? Yeah. Are you that way, or is Jessica more that way?

[Justin Andrews]

That's a good question. I'm probably more protection. No, you are. No, she's probably more protective with the little ones, but with my older ones, I tend to be a little bit more protective, but that's different. That's just because I was. Because of the divorce. I have this tough time, you know, not. Not trying to corral everything, which is just a totally different thing. But I can see with the little ones, I'm a little bit more. Push him out, maybe. But you have to ask me again. Let me. I'd have to think about that.

[Sal DeStefano]

I mean, it's something that I know that Katrina and I are working on, like. Like, and I. Again, especially after Adam Lane Smith, understanding that, like, you know, she's the CEO in this, and, like, has a very good, wise voice. And so, like, I don't push that hard. But I'll say things like, just the other morning, we. We were sleeping in. And Max is at this wonderful age where he can go down and kind of make himself breakfast and kind of hang around and play and do his own thing for, like, the first hour or two.

[Justin Andrews]

And we.

[Sal DeStefano]

We can actually sleep in a little bit on Saturday mornings. And so it was especially when we have a late Friday night, like we did. And so we were doing this. And she gets up and she, like, cracks open the door. So. And I'm, like, trying to sleep. I don't want to hear him with his toys.

[Justin Andrews]

I don't have. Like. And I'm like, what are you doing?

[Sal DeStefano]

I'm like, the kid knows how to open a door. Why do you got to open the door? I want to hear my son. I'm like, oh, okay, whatever. So I go back to sleep, you know, trying to figure out. But that's, like, one of those things of, like, I'm. I'm so ready to let him have independence. And I trust him, especially him. He's not, like. He's not the kid who's gonna get up, climb on the counter and get into the knives. No, like, that's just not my son. Like, he's not like that at all. So I have that confidence now. Maybe if he was a kid like that, that was always breaking things or getting stuff, maybe I'd be a little more like that, but. Because I feel like he's really sound when it comes to that.

[Justin Andrews]

There's some kids where it's too quiet. You gotta go check them.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, yeah. No, no, totally. I, like, I get that.

[Justin Andrews]

Like.

[Sal DeStefano]

And he's not that kid. I'm like, you're gonna go down there, and he's, like, drawing a picture on the freaking. You know, like. Or playing with his trucks by himself.

[Adam Schafer]

Like, that was always a deal, like, I was making, especially with my oldest. With Ethan, it's like, if he keeps proving that he's gonna make the right decision when he's challenged. Like, I have to reward that. And so. And that's kind of where, you know, we discussed it a lot, and it makes, you know, it's uncomfortable because there's like, he'll be somewhere. We know he's there. And I'm like, I know his plan. But then she'll be looking on the phone, she could see he's not there, and starts freaking out. And I'm like, they're. They're on a run. They're going to get some food. They're doing, like, it's not a big deal. Like, stop, stop. You know, and, like, let him. Like, you just have to give him space.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

And it's. It's difficult because I'm like, he's gonna make the right decision. Even then, like, let's say he gets in, like, a situation where it's unsafe, he's gonna call me.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Like.

[Adam Schafer]

And we've established that. And, like, I have to trust he's gonna do that. Or it's like, then he's not gonna tell us.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

It's like one or the other.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

You know, what are we. What are we, like, leading towards with this? And so it's tough.

[Sal DeStefano]

I just saw our boy do a video on that. That why his name's slipping me right now, who we're doing the mentor family with. Scott Donald Shout out to. Scott Donald just did a clip on that exact thing, and he calls it the no, no, no rule call or no, no questions asked call. And so if you have a teenager.

[Justin Andrews]

He goes, pick me up.

[Sal DeStefano]

We have a rule that no matter what trouble you're in, what you did wrong or whatever like that, that if you don't feel safe, you want out, you need help, no judgment, you call. You call us, and no questions asked. And you won't get punished. We won't ask you or berate you what's going on. Like, that's a. Just, you know, you have that with us.

[Justin Andrews]

That's great.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. And I think that's you. That's how you build that. Where the kid feel. Because that's where you don't do that. You know what I'm saying?

[Justin Andrews]

You know why? Because. Exactly. Because some kids, like, man, all my friends are smoking pot, or they're all going to do this thing. I don't want to be here, but if I tell my parents, I'm going to get in trouble.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

You know, Whereas they know there's no questions asked. Like, I'll get bailed out. I'll Be able to bounce.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

My parents aren't going to ask me. Yep. And what's funny is you probably end up telling your parents anyway, right?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Right. And then that's. Then it's up to you as a parent to keep your cool and not get upset that your kid was somewhere where he wasn't supposed to be or at a party where you originally said there was going to be parents or whatever the thing may be. But I mean, I think it's such an important thing to establish with your teenagers so they feel safe to be able to have that conversation, you know, So I was.

[Justin Andrews]

So this is part of the commercial, Adam. So I'm sorry to ask you this. I didn't prepare, but for Rock Recovery Center, I know you're going through the. Still the withdrawal with. With Kratom.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

And this is what, day 10.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, my God. So it was Wednesday of last week and I'm already on Monday of this. So we're on. Is that 12?

[Justin Andrews]

12.

[Sal DeStefano]

12. Something like.

[Justin Andrews]

And it's nasty.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Now, cuz Rock Recovery for. People don't know. This is a rehab facility. It's what they specialize in. Right. So you go in there, you, you stay there. We partner with them because we love them. They do a great, great job. What do you think would be the benefits for somebody going through even something like what you're going through in a facility like that? Do you think it would just affect.

[Sal DeStefano]

That you're there if they were. If they. Because we have a relationship with them and they were here, I would have checked myself.

[Justin Andrews]

Really? Oh.

[Sal DeStefano]

I told Katrina that that's how this came out was I looked at her and I said, I know that I'm so bad that I think I might have to check myself in. And I don't want to do that. And so a lot of my motivation to keep going was to prove to myself that I wasn't going to have to take a week or a month off and lock myself into a facility where there'd be people around the clock supporting me and help me. And she was like, I don't think anybody else could have done that by themselves. She's watching what you went through, knowing I couldn't do anything for you not having any. Because there's a lot of stuff that the recovery centers have to support you like, like medication wise and stuff like that to make to ease the withdrawal, which has got to be unbelievable. Like to be in a facility where you have support.

[Justin Andrews]

That's what you're doing.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, exactly. Support professionals, tools Medications, all the things. People that have been through it, they know exactly, oh, he's feeling this right now. Give him this. Or oh, he's, this is what he needs to do.

[Justin Andrews]

Like, there's 24 hours.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. And there's 24 hour support. Yeah. No, I was on the brink of that, dude. I, I told her exactly that, that if, if I couldn't do it and I was gonna, I was gonna check in to, to make sure that I, I mean, to me it was that if I can't prove to myself right now that I can do this a hundred percent, then that I need to admit that I need somebody to help me. So that was, that was this one.

[Justin Andrews]

Thing you did that is part of their program and other programs. But they, they do this a lot. You said what brought you would. Helped you a lot was watching people. Yeah. Talk about their challenges with Kratom.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, I didn't.

[Justin Andrews]

And so like, I know Rock Recovery does this right. Where you meet, you, you do these meetings with other people and it's, it helps.

[Sal DeStefano]

I guess. I, I, for the first time in my life, I understand the AA meetings now. I understand that more. It was, I'd tell you, I'm no exaggeration. I probably watched 50 recovery videos of like long, 20, 30 minute videos.

[Justin Andrews]

What is it about that helps? Is it just like, okay, someone else has done this, They've gone through this as well?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, I think, I think there's a lot of little things. Like, so when you're in it, you like, you have, like, especially when it's getting worse as you're, as you, as you first get in it, you're like, oh, like, how long is this gonna just keep getting worse and is it? And like what to expect. So hearing people that have come out the other side and be like, it was like this and then, and then, and then going like, okay, that's what I'm going through right now. Like, okay. So just being able to relate to somebody like, okay, this person went this, where. This is where they were at and this is how long it took that and oh, okay. I'm. What I'm feeling right now is the worst part. This is what they, they, they also experienced this at this time relating that. You know, I'm sure there's a, there's a, there's a part of my, myself that, you know, beats your own, beats up your ego that you allowed something like this, you know, to happen to you. So hearing other people, especially when you, I mean, I saw all kinds of crazy stories and when you saw, you know, professional people and. And people that have a lot of Think good things going in their life, like, you know, you tend to attach addiction to losers or this or that. And so it's like, there's a lot of people who are just normal people that let something like this get a hold of them. And so that part helps. Yeah, there's a lot of. A lot of things that I didn't realize it wasn't. Like I went in, like, I need to watch videos. I just. Just was, like, researching, and then it started, and I was drawn to it. And then I realized, like, it just.

[Justin Andrews]

And it gave you strength.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, it just. It gave me strength through. I mean, you're not sleeping for days, and so. And trying to sleep is painful, so just being up a lot of times what I would do is I would. I'd start watching them, like on YouTube. But just even sitting still on the couch or in my bed was too much. So I. I'd throw it on my. My headphones and then just go for a walk and. And listen to the. The recovery talks, you know, the people just that are going through it or been through it, and. Yeah, no, that's what kept me going through the. The hardest part, for sure.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, so, yeah, people. You can go on their site and they give out scholarships, so, you know, if you need help or someone else go there along. Along the lines of kind of just, you know, just talking about the things that we struggle with or thankful for. I know this episode drops on Thanksgiving. Is that true? So it's perfect timing. So I. I texted you, Adam. I was driving, and I just was. I don't remember where I was going, and I was praying, and I just started to just be thankful and look back and just having these realizations, just these. Just being blessed with these realizations, you know, how awesome I used to think I was? Which this doesn't sound like an awesome, a great realization, but it really is, because had you asked me then, I wouldn't have thought this. But looking back, I'm like, man, I thought I was so awesome. I thought it was all. I was so great. But really it's not. It's not me. None of it is. And even just this, just what we do here, without you guys, this wouldn't exist at all. And so I was just feeling so grateful that, you know, I get to do this. And the people that I've been put with were the right, exact perfect people to make. Make something like this possible. Because without you guys and your strengths and what you guys can do like this, none of this would be possible. So it's just. It was just wonderful. Very thankful, humbling, but in a good way, you know, drive.

[Sal DeStefano]

I have more thoughts around that just for you, because I know where you're at in your journey right now, too. And you're just in a humble gratitude place of understanding the power of God and how he can work in your lives. But also, one of my favorite verses in the Bible is faith without work is dead. And so he can give you all the gifts in the world, but if you don't take action and you don't. You don't do anything with them, they don't happen, bro. So, yes, you are blessed. Yes, we are blessed. Yes. You know, he probably put this all together, but all it takes is one of us not having the faith, not putting the work in for it not to manifest.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, even that's a blessing. Even that's a blessing. Even. Even the story we tell, the story we've told many times where we recorded, I don't know, 15 episodes with, with. With. We had a fifth partner and he dropped out. And I've told this story before, but now I see it differently. He drops out and he had the social media pull. He was the one that was going to give us our initial growth. And I think most people would have been like, we just did all that work. The guy with the following is gone. Like, let's just. I don't know, what are we going to do? Let's just stop this. Because we spent so much time doing it, and instead every one of us was like, no, that's a gift. That was a blessing.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, but you got gifts and blessings before you found him, and you use them and you put them to work. You know, we all are not attracted to each other if we don't have those things. And so all I'm saying to you is that, you know, it's very much so. He has a plan. Very much so. He gave you wonderful gifts. But there's a lot of people that have wonderful gifts that don't put the work in, that don't have the faith and don't do those things. And so it doesn't just also just miraculously happen. And so it takes a lot of. Lot of effort whether you knew you were doing his work or not. You know, his. He knows more than you or I ever will or, you know, and. And sometimes it's always part of the plan. And so. But to not also understand that, it takes effort, it takes work, and you know, faith without work is dead. And so you know, a lot of people, you know, pray and hope for things to happen and they just wait and there's, it's very important that you also work and you put the work in too.

[Justin Andrews]

It's good, good stuff. So hard transition. But we have for our Black Friday sale, so. Right. So 60% off everything, all the programs plus every purchase enters you into our contest for like the week free vacation at Park City personal training. Right now through Cyber Monday, you get triple entries.

[Sal DeStefano]

Woo.

[Justin Andrews]

So if you haven't gotten a program yet at 60% off or a bundle at 60% off and you do it now, you get three times as many entries to enter into those contests.

[Sal DeStefano]

Let's go.

[Justin Andrews]

It's maps fitnessproducts.com the code is Black Friday. And again, you can get a week free vacation at the Mind Pump Park City house, plus a thousand dollars to travel. 15 people get personal training. 10 people get to hang out here at the studio. Triple entries. Check it out.

[Sal DeStefano]

Let's go.

[Justin Andrews]

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[Podcast Host / Announcer]

First question is from noinstakelsey. What kind of healthy foods do your toddlers like to eat? I'm struggling with my son.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, good question. My toddlers healthy foods that we give them that they like would be berries, cheese, nuts, fruit and you know, different kind of meats. My kids will actually enjoy eating different kind of meats. Butcherbox has really good gluten free nuggets which are like a treat for them. But you know, I think one of the challenges with this with toddlers is we can give them things that are hyper palatable and then when they know that's an option, they won't eat other things. When kids are hungry, they tend to eat, you know, and I know some kids are way more picky than others. I get that. But I think sometimes we give them these different options and then we're like, okay, well why won't you eat these? Well, I want the crackers that I always eat, you know, type of deal.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, I feel like I'm less qualified to answer because I only have one kid. But I, I know what we did with him. There were none of those Options. It was he ate what we ate and, and you know, when. Sometimes he wasn't as hungry and so we didn't feed him that much. But then when he was hungry, then we fed him what we ate.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

And so I think what happened. And so my best friend is trying to unravel this right now with his wife and he has kind of like the, this, his stern way. He was, he was talking to me. I try and tell her I'm just, just don't eat, don't feed them, don't feed them. And we're laughing, right. Kind of tongue in cheek. But he's serious and, and I agree with him. It's just that if you don't give them the treats and snacks, eventually they will get really hungry. And eventually sweet potato and chicken or steak or whatever tastes really good. It's amazing when you are absolutely hungry. But what happens when we introduce a lot of these processed, hyper palatable foods to kids at a very early age?

[Justin Andrews]

It.

[Sal DeStefano]

It hits that reward center and they crave it. And so when they say they're hungry, they're really not hungry. They're craving that, that snack or that treat that you've allowed them to have in the past. And so, and then you want, then you want to sit down and have dinner and they're like, well, no, I want the, the goldfish or I want the whatever the processed food thing that you've allowed them. And they think that that's an option. And it's like, no, this is just, this is what we have to eat. And if you're not hungry. But what you did, what you do is you don't. In my opinion, okay, everyone's different how they do. I would just be like, okay, if you're not hungry, son, you don't have to eat right now. Let me know when you're hungry. And then when he's hungry, then we eat that. That's the option. And, and then, and with, with kids, it's like, it's consistency is so important. It's so important that you're consistent with that. If you are trying to get him to eat these good foods and then, you know, pizzas on Tuesday with the family. You guys go by McDonald's on Wednesdays. And then you're also try. It's like, man, you're just gonna have an uphill battle. Like, like. But we, we were this, we made, we were very mindful of this from day one. And we're very consistent. And what's cool for the maybe early parents is that it's cool if you lay the foundation early while they're toddlers, because now, at six years old, I'll let my son almost eat anything he wants. And it's so cool that I just told the story earlier on the podcast that he was at a friend's house. They ordered burgers. My son gave back the buns and the fries and ate just the meat. And it's not because I tell him he can't do that. If he would eat a burger, I wouldn't care. But he's ate. He's eaten consistently like that for so long. That's what he craves and that's what he likes.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, I don't have much to contribute because they're so old now, but, I mean, it really boils down to the consistency of it. And it was. For us, it was to find those healthy foods they actually do like. And so this was something I kind of worked with my wife. It was like, like, okay, he really likes this type of meat. And, you know, to make sure that we still had that available, we introduced something new on top of that, just so you kind of start stacking other options around. But because we. We get in that point where we have a really. Like, our first kid was very on board. Like, he would eat all the healthy food, but, you know, the youngest had. Was very stubborn and would just hold out. And so he wouldn't eat, and he wouldn't eat for a day, and then he wouldn't eat for the next day. And we're just like, okay, we gotta get. Feed him something. This kid is crazy stubborn.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

And then so we would just, okay, well, he will eat this, so we're gonna make this, but you have to, you know, and it was just like, consistently, you know, a lot of times you want to abandon ship and make things easy, and I understand that. And it's. We're tempted to do that a lot, but, you know, it.

[Justin Andrews]

It's.

[Adam Schafer]

It's part of being a parent. It's tough.

[Sal DeStefano]

Do you remember when. When Everett made the turn? Because I know that you've shared this story a little bit before. How, how dialed you guys were. With Everett, you were a little more loose. I mean, with Ethan, you were a little more loose. With Everett, you felt like you noticed the difference probably being loose, and then. Then you. How did you recorrect? Because I feel like he's. He's good at. He's good. Yeah, I think you're.

[Justin Andrews]

Now.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, he's a good eater now. And it's. It. I Think it was more when he was around 10 or so. Like 9. 10, like, was a battle up till then. Like from a toddler up until then. And it just. Just how it was with him and, you know, just establishing that though he's got a good baseline and so he'll. He'll still be able to have a treat and then leave it and not eat the whole thing and, you know, that kind of thing. But again, because the oldest will now have exposure to friends who have, like, candy or have, like, these other things. And then that's how he was starting. That was starting to trickle down to him. And so, you know, you're going to battle that. But yeah, again, it's. This is like what we're eating is your. And I like that because we, We. We tried to establish the same thing. Is like, what we're all eating as a family is what we're eating. And then, you know, from there, if you're still hungry, like, we have it available, but it's not in the house.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yep.

[Podcast Host / Announcer]

Next question is from Kevin Og. Is it okay to change rep ranges and adjust weights for maps 15?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, I hope you do. Yeah, I mean, adjust weights for sure. If you get stronger rep ranges, the rep ranges that are effective for building muscle and strength are wide. There's a wide range. It's between 1 to probably around 25, I would say. But I'd say for argument's sake, you probably want to stay within the rep ranges of like 6 to 15. Why. Why not below 6? You can below 6, but it requires better technique and focus. Why not above 15? Stamina starts to play a role, which is okay if that's what you want to train for. But I think between 6 to 15 is a nice range for people to work within. And if you go lower rep, you're gonna have to add the weight, and if you go higher rep, you're gonna have to lower the weight. But there's nothing wrong at all with a job. You should adjust rep ranges for. For. Well, development.

[Sal DeStefano]

I used to tell clients the rule of five. Just go 5, 10, 15, 20, 25. So, like, those, like those are. Stay in one of those rep ranges either. Running fives, running tens, running 15s, running twenties, even go to 25. But that was kind of the idea. Like, if you want to change your rep ranges, rule of five, you know, if you're. If you've been doing fives, go to tens and then 15s and 20, that they're all, all those have, like, and they're. And they're different enough, right. The difference between 5 and 10 and 10 and 15 and 15 and 20 is, is enough to create a novel stimulus to you. But you know, absolutely adjust it. But we always, I do want to make a point to say this though, not including weights. If you are strong and the weight you chose.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

The last week is too, is too light. Add weight, go more. We'll always say that especially in that.

[Adam Schafer]

That type of a structure with the Maps 15, I think it like invites.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yes.

[Adam Schafer]

You to really crank that, dial that intensity dial a little bit more because you have the opportunity to, you know, recover and it's, it's very beneficial for that.

[Sal DeStefano]

So from that perspective, I, I, anytime you can add weights, add weights. But I always encourage people to run our programs as laid out in regards to sets and reps and the way the program and exercise selection at least one time all the way through to let the programming do what it's supposed to. Unless this is an advanced, you know, personal trainer who's asking this question and then, you know, why are you asking this question? You can, you can do that. But for most people you will benefit from running through the professional protocol that we built and then modifying it to like some of the questions you're asking.

[Podcast Host / Announcer]

Next question is from Sam o'. Day. Is it possible to build muscle in a deficit when you're obese? My thinking is your body has enough energy to use that you can still build muscle as long as you're hitting your protein target, even if you're in a deficit.

[Justin Andrews]

So this is a good question because we've said before that if you're not feeding yourself excess calories, your body doesn't have materials, the materials to build. So it's a logical question, right? Well, I have excess calories stored on my body. Can that make up the difference? No. And here's why. Now, technically, can you build muscle in a cut? You can, but here's why this doesn't happen when you're in a deficit. Your body is thinking conserve. Yes. So building muscle is a counter signal. It's counter signal. If I'm eating less calories than I'm burning and my body's having to tap into itself, albeit store body fat, it really doesn't want to add this active tissue called muscle that's going to, for lack of a better term, speed up your metabolism. So it's sending a signal that says don't try to burn more calories. Let's get that. In fact, the signal you're sending in a deficit is to pare muscle Down. Now if you strength train and hit high protein while being in a calorie deficit, you'll mitigate that quite a bit, maybe even negate it completely through that process. But being in a deficit and trying to build this is like, it's like, like you know, turning a light switch on and off at the same time. Like a lot of times it doesn't happen.

[Sal DeStefano]

Now I want to address the anomalies that somebody who's listening is like, but wait a second, I was on a weight loss journey, I lost £50 and I did epidexa scan and I saw I did build muscle. And I've addressed this before. If you're on a, in a calorie deficit that isn't like a dramatic calorie deficit, like you're not on a thousand 1500 calorie deficit every single day. It's not like we're, we, our body's working on this perfect, perfect clock seven day a week, 24 hours. Like so what it means is that in a 30 day window you are, you are mostly in a deficit. But there can be periods of time, say you ate a big meal, where your body signals that you're in a slight surplus even though you're in a total deficit overall. And so there's a possibility that somebody who is in a deficit trying to lose might add a couple pounds of muscle building through that process. Normally that means they are at a really good deficit. Like, like they're not too extreme of a deficit. So that there's actually sometimes in the deficit where their body's at a maintenance or even a little bit of a surplus. But the overall 30 day window looks like a total deficit. And so you'll see that sometimes where, if you are, but at the end of the day you're lifting weights to spare as much muscle as you can. You're in a diet, you are lifting to send a signal to hang on to that muscle. Because if you don't, if you, because I don't want the attitude this person to be like, oh well, if I can't build muscle while I'm on this weight loss program as well. Stop lifting weights. No, that'd be a horrible idea because then what will happen is you actually might see the scale go down a little bit faster, but then you'll be paring down muscle 40 of the weight loss. Yes. So you are sending a signal to the body to just hold on to them. We need this muscle. We may not be have enough material to go build muscle, but we're not going to get rid of any of this that we already have because this guy's making me still lift weights. So I'm going to keep that. Which. So dropping 20 pounds on the scale and losing no muscle is a bigger success than losing 30 pounds on the scale and having lost 10 or 12 pounds of muscle along with those 20 pounds of fat. So keep that in mind.

[Podcast Host / Announcer]

Next question is from Wally. How do you deal with a mass amount of clients? I have 17 clients right now and I am finding it difficult to stay on top of their programming and progress at times.

[Justin Andrews]

This is interesting because 17 clients isn't a ton. I mean, are you training them four days a week each or three days a week each? It's a busy, It's. You've got yourself a decent book. Yeah, this is probably. You're looking at 34, maybe 40 sessions a week. Probably more like 30 sessions a week, which is full time. Yeah. But you may find it difficult to stay up on the programming because you're writing up their programming well before their workouts and you're doing all that, that when. And I used to do this as an early trainer. I write up the workouts before they come in. And then I realized when I were training clients, I'd have to change so much of it while I was training them because I was watching them move. Yeah, like, well, I have this exercise down, but really I got to do this first.

[Adam Schafer]

You have to learn to unlearn though.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, yeah, it's true.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yes.

[Adam Schafer]

You got to go through that process.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

So this, these types of questions sometimes. Dude, I'm. Oh, I wish, I wish you guys did this. When I was a 19, 20 year old trainer and I had nothing to do with you guys and you guys built all this stuff because I would rip all your. And I would have made four times as much money as I made as a trainer. The fact that we have all this free content and even our programs that all go on sale for 60% off. So I don't know, do the math. If you own every single program and mod and free guide we had, like, I would have all of that at Access. I would never write a program again. I would pull from your guys's stuff. I would then take two minutes to customize it to the client who has rolled their ankle or can't go four days a week or two days a week, maybe cross out this exercise. Oh, do this one instead and like be done with it. Like, why would I, why, Especially as a trainer who's less than a decade into training, think that I'm gonna sit down and write better programs for my client five years into my career than these jerk offs who've been doing it for 60 years and thousands of clients like, and they have all this stuff like, like blows my we. And when we meet trainers that don't take all of our stuff, like, dude, go take it and go help people.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, for sure. There's so many tools now and but again, I'm gonna go back to like okay, 17 clients. I. And yeah, look, when you're training 30 sessions a week, it does. You're on for 30 hours.

[Adam Schafer]

If you have no systems, maybe. But like, come on.

[Justin Andrews]

I. Look, you guys know how disorganized I am. I didn't have any systems.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's exactly what I had steal all this stuff I had, I had, I had no, I was unorganized. So of course the three of us, Justin was the most organized by far. S and I were a show. Posted notes, whatever, on the floor.

[Adam Schafer]

It's all up here. And it's like you just, you go.

[Sal DeStefano]

But I mean it. Would this exist? Yeah, like if this existed.

[Justin Andrews]

I know.

[Sal DeStefano]

I mean I would, I would be.

[Justin Andrews]

Especially with CRM, bro.

[Sal DeStefano]

I would use all of your guys's stuff, like everything. I would even answer questions anymore.

[Justin Andrews]

I could ask.

[Sal DeStefano]

Cly would ask me a question, be like, give me two minutes askmyp.com I plug it in and then be like here, I made a YouTube video for you and here's a white paper to go right with it.

[Justin Andrews]

Like, I do also think there's a. I think some trainers over program when it comes to their clients for sure. Now programming is more. You have to be more precise when programming. When I'm writing a program for someone, I'm not going to train if someone tells me I'm going to work out for the next three months. Like I'm have to.

[Adam Schafer]

That's when it matters.

[Justin Andrews]

I have to really think about it.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

When you're coming to me and every time you work out, you're with me. I'm going to usually do full body and I'm going to watch how you move. And based on how you move and how you felt yesterday and how your sleep was, which I'm going to ask you every session, my workout is going to adjust in the session and so there's not a lot of you have.

[Adam Schafer]

A skeleton for it. But literally everything.

[Sal DeStefano]

The best train, the best trainers that listen to us and follow us. The top trainers use all the math programs for the scaffolding. That's what they do that is like every. The client maps anabolic or whatever. That's what they're following. And then they make micro adjustments based off.

[Justin Andrews]

On the fly.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yes, on the fly. But that is their scaffolding. It's like, this is what we're doing today. And then, oh, that client can't do barbell back squats. So I just put this like that. It's like that's the majority of your programming thinking. Like the fact that you would. When the resources that are out there.

[Justin Andrews]

Are like, you're hurting Adam right now. Oh, my God.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, it's. It's crazy because, like, I know I can relate to this. Guy or girl? Guy.

[Adam Schafer]

Girl.

[Sal DeStefano]

Do we know?

[Podcast Host / Announcer]

I guess a guy.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay, we can. I can relate to this person because I was. I was as if not more disorganized than you were. So I was definitely. But stuff like this didn't exist. Yeah, there wasn't somebody having all the programs for every type of client you had. There wasn't like an ass. Mindpump.com that gives me all the answers. It wasn't YouTube clips, bro. Now there was a white papers and blogs for every single question a client will ever ask. Like, come on, dude.

[Adam Schafer]

Adam's about to go west. Watson.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's still one of my favorites.

[Justin Andrews]

Seventeen clients, many sessions. I was training a week. At one point it was like 50, bro.

[Sal DeStefano]

I maintained this as a fitness manager. Yeah, I had 17 to 20 clients as a fitness manager. Running the.

[Justin Andrews]

Running the show.

[Sal DeStefano]

Come on, come on, guy. Get your together.

[Justin Andrews]

We just made it feel terrible.

[Adam Schafer]

All right, look, tough love.

[Justin Andrews]

If you like the show, come find us on Instagram. We'll see you at Mind Pump Media.

[Podcast Host / Announcer]

Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB super [e-mail] the RGB Super Bundle includes Maps, Anabolic Maps, Performance and Maps aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos. The RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee and you can get it now. Plus other valuable free [e-mail] if you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review on itunes and by introducing Mind Pump. To your friends and family. We thank you for your support. And until next time, this is Mind Pumpkin.