2743: The Trainer-Approved Way to Eat Carbs for the Best Results

Summary

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Mind Pump Ep. 2743: The Trainer-Approved Way to Eat Carbs for the Best Results

Hosts: Sal Di Stefano, Adam Schafer, Justin Andrews, Doug Egge
Date: December 5, 2025

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Overview

In this episode, the Mind Pump crew tackle the complex truths around carbohydrate consumption, busting myths and offering practical, individualized, and science-backed advice on how to use carbs for optimal gains in muscle, strength, and performance. They dive deep on the nuances of carb timing, types, and their role in nutrition strategies for different goals, answering real listener questions along the way. The conversation also veers into related topics like protein intake myths, gut health, processed foods, and broader riffing on trends in health, fitness, and even societal changes driven by technology.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Carbs: Essential for Gains & Athletic Performance

• Carbs aren’t essential for survival, but they are for performance and muscle growth:

  • “You don’t need them. Well, technically that’s true, but what about if you want gains? Carbs can play a big role.” (Justin, 03:55)
  • Significant for anaerobic strength, power, muscle-building, and most athletic performance, with exceptions like some low-level endurance events.

• Ultra-endurance athletes might run low-carb in training, but use carbs for events:

  • “Even ultramarathon record holders... run keto, but when it comes to game time, he uses a fast sourcing, which is carbohydrates.” (Justin, 05:10)

• Carbs influence mood, thyroid, and overall health:

  • Prolonged zero-carb diets can hurt thyroid function and mood.
  • Even high-profile carnivore diet advocates eventually reintroduce carbs for health.

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Carbs: The Most Variable Macronutrient

• “Carbs are where you can start to play to get more of a benefit here or there. Protein and fat tend to be relatively consistent.” (Sal, 06:44)

• Manipulation techniques:

  • Backloading / Frontloading: All carbs in the evening or morning, respectively.
  • Individual differences are huge—some need a higher or lower pre-workout carb dose for optimal pumps and strength.

• Adam’s experience:

  • Optimal pre-workout carbs for him: 75–80g. More isn’t better; less is noticeably worse.

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Low-Carb and Keto: Useful for Some, Not All

• Keto = Appetite suppressant, great for sugar cravings and some digestive/autoimmune issues, but not ideal for peak muscle growth:

  • “I never felt less of a pull towards sugar when I was on ketogenic... but I definitely didn’t have the same oomph in my workout.” (Adam, 10:10)

• For people prone to cravings, higher fat/lower carb diets can be helpful, but expect reduced gym performance.

  • “If you struggle with sweets, higher protein and fat tend to work really well.” (Adam, 11:50)

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Carbohydrate Source & Digestibility

• Number one consideration: Does it digest well for you?

  • “Some [carbs] make you feel terrible, others make you feel amazing.” (Justin, 12:49)

• Many clients don’t realize a food isn’t digesting well until it’s removed.

• “I’m such a fan of… even if a client claims... ‘Oh I like to eat this way’... hey let’s try these different things.” (Sal, 13:27)

• For performance, starchy carbs like rice, potatoes, sweet potatoes, and fruit are generally best. For mental sharpness, some do better with lower carbs.

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Distinguishing Between Ultra-Processed and Whole-Food Carbs

• The real benefit of ‘low carb’ often comes from cutting ultra-processed foods:

  • “When people cut carbs and notice a big difference, oftentimes it’s because they've reduced their processed food consumption.” (Justin, 15:30)

• Best for performance and body comp: Whole food carbs—rice, potatoes, fruit, quinoa—with protein first.

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The Gut Health/Autoimmunity Connection

• Going low-carb often helps underlying gut and autoimmune issues—not because of carbs, but because of aggravated digestive conditions.

  • “If you have SIBO or a parasite, carbs tend to make those worse.” (Sal, 18:19)
  • Reintroducing carbs after treating gut issues is usually unproblematic.

• Autoimmune symptoms may improve on low-carb:

  • “My [psoriasis] was better during keto, but processed carbs especially make it flare up.” (Sal, 19:19–19:32)

• Individual experimentation is crucial.

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Carbohydrate Timing & Performance

• Carb timing matters for pumps and workout energy:

  • “Carb timing is pretty awesome. If I have a decent carbohydrate meal a few hours before my workout... best pump of my life.” (Justin, 21:40)

• Hydration and electrolytes also play a huge role in pump and energy:

  • “Once I pushed water... and electrolytes, the pumps were insane. Better than any supplement.” (Sal, 22:40)

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Protein Intake Myths: Debunked

• Recent claims about protein dosing and muscle growth:
  • “If you eat 20g, you need 40g for protein synthesis, more than that just turns into glucose” (via Peter Attia, 24:15)
  • Mind Pump verdict:
    • The body ultimately cares about total protein intake over the day, not precise dosing per meal.
    • “At the end of the day, the end result is what matters. Not what happens in a test tube.” (Justin, 30:53)
    • Optimal dosing may help digestion or comfort, but gains come down to meeting your daily need.

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Risk & Mortality in Sports: Bodybuilding vs. Extreme Sports

• Bodybuilding mortality is higher than the general population (34–50% among IFBB pros), but still much safer than sports like base jumping or big wave surfing.

  • “BASE jumping: 431 deaths per 100,000 jumps. One out of 232 die.” (Justin, 35:05)

• The drug/party culture in pro bodybuilding is a confounding factor in risk.

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Listener Q&A Segment

[67:30] Q1: How to scale back on cardio after 15 years of endurance?

• Go “all in” on strength: Cut back drastically rather than gradually for faster strength gains. For the psychologically addicted, replace cardio time with walks or extend strength training to preserve the sense of ritual.
• Notable Quote: “The faster you cut this out and start strength training, the faster results will happen.” (Justin, 67:41)

[71:19] Q2: How to help your central nervous system recover after training too hard?

• Reduce intensity first, then volume, then frequency. Major cuts are best initially—cut at least in half. Rest is the best immediate remedy.
• Check caffeine/sleep habits; overdoing stimulants can worsen fatigue and CNS overload.
• “Nothing replaces rest. There’s no trick or hack.” (Justin, 72:16)

[73:15] Q3: Am I getting stronger or is just my CNS adapting? (especially after 10+ years of training)

• It’s largely the same—strength comes from both neural adaptation and muscle growth.
  • “Central nervous system probably plays a larger role in strength, but bigger muscles contract harder.” (Justin, 73:58)
• If you’re stronger but not gaining muscle, look at your calorie intake.

[75:01] Q4: Should my son wear a posture corrector for forward shoulders?

• Strong “NO.”
  • They weaken muscles by creating dependence, leading to worse posture long-term.
  • Exercises and more frequent, active posture correction work best.
  • “Posture correctors are a fast track to muscle atrophy... They should call them posture destroyers.” (Justin, 77:53)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On low-carb thyroid impacts:

  • “Going no carb for too long can cause issues, potentially issues with your thyroid and thyroid hormone.” (Justin, 05:49)

• On gut health and bloating:

  • “When I eat carbs, I get super bloated... you work with gut health specialists, treat those issues, you go back to eating carbs and you're fine.” (Justin, 21:00)

• On protein timing and “bro science”:

  • “The data will show it’s not going to make a difference at the end of the day when it comes to building muscle and burning body fat.” (Justin, 28:00)

• On processed foods and carb avoidance:

  • “A lot of ultra-processed foods are carb-based because they’re cheap and convenient. Cutting carbs often equals cutting processed foods.” (Justin, 15:30)

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Timestamps by Topic

• 03:54 – Main discussion: Carbs, essentiality, and athletic performance
• 06:44 – Macro variability: Why carbs are so “tunable”
• 10:10 – Keto/low-carb: pros, cons, and context
• 12:48 – Importance of carb digestibility and real-world client experience
• 15:30 – The processed food trap in low-carb diets
• 18:19 – Gut health, autoimmune, and individual responses to carbs
• 21:40 – Carb timing, hydration, and “the best pump ever”
• 24:15 – Debunking protein intake myths (Peter Attia clip and discussion)
• 32:07 – Mortality/sport risk: Bodybuilding vs. extreme sports
• 67:30 – Q&A Segment Start
  • 67:30 – Scaling back cardio after years of endurance
  • 71:19 – CNS recovery after overtraining
  • 73:15 – Getting stronger vs. CNS adaptation
  • 75:01 – Posture correctors for forward shoulders

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Tone & Style

• Direct, practical, and evidence-based: Always referencing both science and extensive real-world coaching.
• Conversational, humorous, and occasionally irreverent: The hosts gently rib each other, riff on tangents, and keep the mood lively even when tackling complex, “weedy” fitness science.
• Individualization over dogma: Consistently urge experimentation and listening to one’s own body.

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Closing

Whether you’re an athlete, bodybuilder, or average gym-goer, carbs matter, but how you eat them, which you pick, and how they make you feel are all highly personal. Cut through the dogma, try things out, prioritize digestibility, and always focus on behaviors you can sustain. Ignore the hype—eat for your own best performance.

For more Mind Pump, follow them on Instagram @mindpumpmedia.

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Transcript

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Most downloaded fitness, health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump. Today's episode we answered listeners questions people wrote in to Mind Pump Media on Instagram. We picked some questions, but this was after the intro. Today's intro is 64 minutes long where we talk about fitness and fat loss and muscle gain, current events, family life. It's a good time again. If you want to post a question that we can pick, go to Mind Pump Media on Instagram now. This episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Joovv. This is red light therapy that works. This is the kind that you find in the studies. So red light therapy will improve the health and vibrance of your skin. Regrow hair, raise testosterone, accelerate recovery, make you stronger. All of this backed by data. Look it up. This data goes back decades. It's very well studied. It's legit. Joovv is the only company we stand by with red light therapy. And right now you can get a discount through our link. Go to joovv.com mindpump J-O-O-V-V.com.

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[Justin Andrews]

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[Adam Schaefer]

Enjoy the rest of the show.

[Sal DeStefano]

Carbs.

[Justin Andrews]

It's the macronutrient. That's not essential, right? You don't need them. Well, technically that's true, but what about if you want gains? What if you want performance, strength, muscle. I'm here to tell you carbs can play a big role. And there's a difference in how you use them. The kind you eat, when you eat them, all that stuff. We're going to talk about carbs right now. How to use carbs for the gains.

[Sal DeStefano]

Let's go. Have you ever tried to gain me without carbs?

[Justin Andrews]

Yes. Yes, I did.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yes.

[Justin Andrews]

It's like I've used this example before, but it's literally you're playing your video game and they're like, what would you like to do? Hard, hardly difficult mode, super duper hard mode. Let's do that. No, Clark. Okay, so let's start here. The data on strength. So anaerobic strength, power, athletic performance. Except for some people will point this out. Except for possibly the kind of endurance that you would Use that is kind of low level, long lasting. So.

Maybe not the case. Maybe because there's data that supports that there is also the case, but maybe not. If you're going to do like a super slow run for super long distances. Otherwise, carbohydrate intake improves athletic performance and strength. It just does.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, even that. We, I mean, we had one of the, you know, ultramarathon record holders on our show long ago and what he does is run keto. But then when it comes to game time, he uses a fast sourcing.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, so fast. Using source of energy.

[Sal DeStefano]

Right?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

But then he still utilizes carbohydrates.

[Justin Andrews]

That's right.

[Sal DeStefano]

So, yeah, even in that situation you're talking about, there's still value to utilizing carbohydrates.

[Justin Andrews]

That's right. But you know, and also this, the, the lifestyle effects, right? I mean, would you want to avoid all the good stuff, higher macronutrients, all the good stuff.

[Adam Schaefer]

Having a good mood, doesn't that factor in?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, well, and, and there's data now that shows that going no carb for too long can cause issues, potentially issues with your thyroid and thyroid hormone.

[Sal DeStefano]

Isn't that what Saladino ended up coming out about, too?

[Justin Andrews]

Well now Saladino, who's the carnivore guy, now advocates for some carbohydrate fruit, honey, berries and honey, sweet potato, even.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, even sweet potato.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

And I think we're getting closer and closer to a paleo diet.

[Justin Andrews]

You know what happens? You go on it for so long and then you start to experience negative effects, you know? You know, and now carbohydrates are interesting, though. Carbohydrates are interesting because what you'll see with athletics performance and even bodybuilding is this is the macronutrient that you can manipulate and play with to elicit certain responses. Protein intake tends to be consistent all the time. Yeah. Fat intake tends to be relatively consistent all the time. Carbs is where you can start to play to get more of a benefit here or there.

[Adam Schaefer]

Sit on activity.

[Justin Andrews]

That's right. That's right. And then carbohydrate sources make a pretty big difference. They do with proteins and fats as well. But with carbs, different sources can have a different effect on the body. So I'll start with you, Adam, because you really learned how to manipulate carbohydrates because you had to present your body on stage at 2% body fat. What did you learn about carbohydrates for that particular thing?

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, one of the things I got to do was I did Everything you could think of as far as how to use them. So I ran super high carb diets. I ran super low carb diets. I did backloading on carbs. I did front loading loading on carbs.

[Justin Andrews]

What's back loading and front loading, by the way?

[Sal DeStefano]

So that's where you basically eat a majority, if not all your carbohydrates in the evening time would be backloading, and then front loading would be eating all of them in the beginning of the day and then none at the rest of the rest of the night.

And the biggest thing that I, I learned for myself personally, and I do think there's a massive individual variance because I, I've. I've manipulated this enough times with clients that I feel like everybody has their own specific number. Like, I, I had nailed down, that was 75 grams of carbs for me. Now, granted, that might be different than today because I'm a different. I'm a whole different body. Right.

[Justin Andrews]

This was a 75 for a meal.

[Sal DeStefano]

No total, like, so, like, as long as I got 75 to 80 grams of carbs before my workout.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, I see.

[Sal DeStefano]

I had that. Like, and, and where I'm going with this is that the difference between 80 and, say 200 grams before workout was nominal. There was no difference. I didn't feel a bigger pump. I didn't have more energy. It was like. So it wasn't like more carbs is better necessarily, but there was definitely an optimal amount.

[Justin Andrews]

So if you went. If he was 30, you could tell.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, yeah. If it was 30, flatter in the workout, didn't feel as strong. Pumps weren't as good. But right at that, like. And of course, there's like a range, give or take, 10 to 15. That's why I said 75 to 80. It was probably somewhere more like 70 to 90, you know, somewhere in there. But once I started pushing beyond 100, it was like. And that gave me like the. The maximum performance. Also, I could split that up in two meals. So it wasn't. I didn't feel lethargic from it. So it was an easily digestible carbohydrates. And then post workout, I always enjoyed having. I noticed having less. And again, this is a lot of my. This is all anecdotal, right? This is my personal experience because I've done different things with different clients. I noticed when I had a lighter carbohydrate dinner, I slept better.

[Justin Andrews]

It's funny, some people. The opposite.

[Sal DeStefano]

The opposite. That's why I said, that's why I.

[Justin Andrews]

Preface that you have data on that, by the way.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. That's why I preface that, because some clients I've had where I load them up on carbs, they sleep like babies. Other clients, not so much. They do much better on, like, a high protein, like, vegetable type of meal for their last meal. I do really good with that. So I found that prioritizing most of my carbohydrates, regardless if I was in a really high state of eating, I've been as high as 6,700 grams of carbs in a day and as low as. Probably about as low. What I would consider low carbohydrate for me is like 150. Although obviously in competitive dieting, I've pushed low.

[Justin Andrews]

You also went keto for a while where it was zero.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, yeah. So I've. I've. I've done everything in between and keto. What I found with no carbs in the keto diet.

Really good for appetite suppressant. Those that have listened to me talk about my sugar addiction and. And how hard that is and has been for my entire life, I never felt less of a pool towards sugar when I was on the ketogenic. So I found a lot of value because of that. But I definitely didn't have the same oomph in my workout. I couldn't get the same pumps. I desperately tried to gain, like, because I was in the middle. If you remember, that was when we.

[Justin Andrews]

First started the podcast, competing.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. I was still, you know, it full into, you know, Meathead Adam at that time, and so, very much so cared about not losing any muscle, trying to gain. And I really tried to do it, you know, through the ketogenic diet, and I just could not. I couldn't get enough. I couldn't get enough calories because it just suppressed the appetite so well. So I found a lot of value in the lower carbohydrate. When you have somebody who struggles with cravings a lot. So if you're a person who struggles with craving sweets and carbohydrates a lot, the higher fat, higher protein approach tends to do really well with that. You may lack a little bit in performance in the gym, but if you still can work out. It's not like I didn't want to work out. It was just. It just wasn't the same as when I was carved up. So, and this is, to me, all the nuance that matters when you're coaching a client is it's less about, oh, what's the best strategy for fat loss? Or, oh, what's the best for muscle pumps. It's more like, okay, what's the client's goal? And how does that individual respond to the way I, I feed them carbohydrates? And, and that would dictate. Yeah, all the things I'm talking about.

[Justin Andrews]

I'd say probably if I were to. If I were to, in a nutshell, because the variance with carbs is very interesting. You don't find there's a variance with everything. So I'll be clear there. But you don't see this variance, this wide variance like, like you do with carbs, with like proteins and fats. Again, there's variance in everything. So I'd have clients that would do a little better with lower protein. Higher protein, but generally high protein and fats. You would still see a variance, but it's not, you know, it wasn't this huge variance where I could have clients that are great on low and others that are phenomenal.

[Adam Schaefer]

To your point, they're essential.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, to your point, everybody has a low threshold for those two.

[Justin Andrews]

Those are essential.

[Sal DeStefano]

Right.

[Justin Andrews]

So it makes sense. Yeah, it definitely makes sense. The one thing I would say that the most important consideration with carbohydrates is digestibility. I'd say that's number one, which is a strong consideration for all food. But carbohydrates, boy, can some of them make you feel.

[Adam Schaefer]

Be some irritators in there.

[Justin Andrews]

Totally. Some of them make you feel terrible, others make you feel amazing. So when picking carbohydrate sources, ideally it's like, which one makes you feel the best digest?

[Sal DeStefano]

Digestive wise, even that sal is nuanced because, I mean, at least our experience. Right. How. I mean, how many clients have you coached that even have a good connection to something that's not really digesting well with them?

[Justin Andrews]

Right.

[Sal DeStefano]

I can't tell you how many people are like, oh, I'm fine.

[Justin Andrews]

I do good on bread.

[Adam Schaefer]

You eat that.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, until I cut it out.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Then I cut it out and they're like, oh, my God, I feel like.

[Justin Andrews]

I lost all this weight.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yes, sir. Introducing you, it's a whole other thing. Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

And so, you know, I'm such a. I'm such a fan of, you know, if you're a listener, if you do this on your own, if you have a coach or if you are a coach doing stuff like this, where even if a client claims that this. Oh, this is. I like to eat this way. This purpose, like, hey, let's try these different things. Because many times they're just unaware. They're unaware of what better feels like they're adapted to that.

[Justin Andrews]

That is, you just don't have a contrast. Yeah. Out of the matrix.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. So you just, and, and you don't have crippling problems from, say, the bread. And so maybe you don't have a full blown gluten intolerance, but it also may not just be easily digested for you. And you add that to a little bit of a stressful day and you're holding on to bloating water for a day and you think it's fat.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. For me, some carbohydrate sources will give me a crash, others don't give me a crash. I know for me, for athletic performance, strength, muscle gain, then I need to eat some good carbs. Starchy carbs, typically rice, potato, fruit is okay. If I want mental sharpness, then lower carbohydrates tend to work better. So if I'm gonna do like a podcast circuit and I need to be sharp for, you know, all day because I'm doing three or four podcasts, then I'm gonna, then I'm gonna go lower carb.

[Sal DeStefano]

I also notice a big difference Sal too, on my training regimen, on how those foods are digested. Like, I can get away with more pasta, breads and things that, let's say I have a little bit of an intolerance to when I'm training hard. When I'm training hard, it's like my body is like needing calories. It feels like it just kind of. And if I, if I'm not and I have something like that, it seems like it's easily upset or I have issues with it. So I think that even matters, like, so especially when you're talking about people that may not have a full blown intolerance, but that the food just doesn't totally agree with you. And it's like when I'm, when I'm strength training and needing a lot of these additional calories, it feels like my body. Go ahead. It plows through it. And he said when I don't need those extra calories and then I pile that on there, I can feel a major.

[Justin Andrews]

Here's what's interesting too with carbohydrates, is that a majority of heavily ultra processed foods are carbohydrate based. Now it's not because kind of, but it's not entirely because carbohydrates are the best when you're trying to create a hyper palatable type of cheat. Because fat, fat, fat, you know, fat and salt is part of that. Right. Palatability although it's extremely complex, like very like food scientists understand this. The three main ingredients, if we were to break down the macros of hyper of palatability, it's, it's salt, sugar and fat. So fat and salt are a part of this as well. But the big reason that carbohydrates make up a majority of ultra processed foods, because they're cheap. So I can make and produce large amounts of these foods and it'd be inexpensive. And one of the pieces of the formula for processed foods is convenience and affordability. So like a box of, you know, high protein snacks, even though they're snacks are still they're going to be expensive because protein is more expensive. So when people cut carbs and notice a big difference, oftentimes it's because they've reduced their processed food consumption. Oftentimes not all of it because carbohydrates are the least satiety producing anyway, but a lot of it's just, they've just cut out ultra processed foods. But that being said, like, if you want good performance and gains, like you're trying to build strength and muscle, you're reverse dieting to speed up your metabolism. You're, you know, you're listening to the podcast and you're, it's resonating, you want to try it out. You're better off eating carbohydrates and stick to whole natural sources, sources that are minimally processed, like white rice, potato, sweet potato, fruit, quinoa. And what you'll find when you eat those sources along with other whole natural sources is you're not going to overeat. You'll do great. And you'll see, especially if you eat the protein first, and you'll see phenomenal results. The other thing, the other reason why oftentimes people will promote low carb so much is they have an un underlying digestive issue, gut health issue that they haven't solved yet. Okay, so if you have sibo, like small intestinal bacterial overgrowth, or sifo, which is fungal overgrowth, or a parasite, which you don't know about, or gut inflammation, carbohydrates tend to make those worse. So you suddenly will cut carbs and be like, oh my God, I feel so much better. This was me for a long time when I was trying to figure out what was wrong with my gut issues. I went low carb, not because it was the best for performance or anything else, but mainly because it was the best for my digestion, which ultimately meant it was the best for me.

[Sal DeStefano]

And that that's because the glucose is feeding the bacteria.

[Justin Andrews]

It's just I would eat them and it would cause problems. And going, no, carb would just felt.

[Sal DeStefano]

But isn't that what's happened? That's part of the reason. Right. So it's like that food's getting converted over to glucose. The glucose is feeding, feeding the bacteria.

[Justin Andrews]

They're fermenting, they're causing issues. You're getting bloat or digestive digestion distress and stuff like that. And so you'll hear this sometimes. You'll also see and this is something entirely different where people will go low carb because of autoimmune issues. Now, there's a lot of speculation as to why people will get benefit from this. It might be that carbohydrate containing foods have compounds that can cause an immune reaction, or more likely to cause an immune reaction. But I'll also point to protein sources that are high on that as well. Egg whites and dairy being chief among them. Nonetheless, there's such an individual variance with this. But I will say, like, if you are. Huge difference for me. Yeah. If you're like, hey, difference. What do you mean?

[Sal DeStefano]

When I was low carb.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

My odd. That. That was one of the, that was one of the things that kept me going on the ketogenic diet too. Was that how good my psoriasis?

[Justin Andrews]

Right.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Right.

[Sal DeStefano]

And it was very obvious when I started to reintroduce the carbohydrates, especially processed ones.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. There's.

[Sal DeStefano]

There's also a huge difference in that, like, rice doesn't seem to do it. Sweet potatoes don't seem to do it. Eat something out of a box or sugar or something like that, and I'm 30 minutes to an hour later, I'm already scratching myself.

[Adam Schaefer]

There's something there. There's got to be two. Like, you're mentioning feeding the bacteria. I wonder if the beneficial bacteria versus like less beneficial, like in whatever you're. You're, you know, predominantly growing in your gut. I wonder.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, if you have a bacterial overgrowth, what it means is dysbiosis, meaning that the. The wrong bacteria, there's too much of the wrong bacteria, too little of the right bacteria, or the ratio of the bacteria is off. This is really loose, everybody. This is like super. I know, I'm really oversimplifying it because it's very complex. Microbiome is super complex. But essentially that's what we're talking about. So now you're feeding this bacterial milieu with what they tend to eat a lot of which is carbohydrates or sugars. They also eat fats and some proteins, but carbohydrates will feed. And so what you do is just kind of blow up and strengthen this reinforcement, this dysbiosis. And so suddenly you got bloat. This is what happens. People will be like, man, when I eat carbs, I get super bloated. And so this is kind of the issue. You could also have, you know, certain overgrowths. I can't remember. I don't know why women will oftentimes get this. Candida, Candida.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, yeah, Candida.

[Justin Andrews]

And Candida feeds on carbs. Feeds on carbs. And so you'll eat carbs and you feel absolutely terrible. But if you treat those issues, you work with some of the gut health specialists, treat those issues, then you go back to eating carbs and you're totally fine. So it wasn't the carbs that was the issue. It was something else that was the issue. One thing I'll say, though, is one thing you can play with. And we're splitting hairs here now, but we do have a lot of fitness fanatics that listen to podcasts that love splitting hairs. Carbohydrate timing is pretty awesome. If I have, you know, a decent carbohydrate meal a few hours before my workout, with good water intake and sodium, I'm getting a best pump of my life. It's amazing. If I don't, it's a big difference.

[Sal DeStefano]

I remember when I figured that out. Yeah, like, it was, I mean, I don't know what a decade of taking no explode and all the, all the, all the pre workout pump stuff that I could possibly. And I mean, I can, I can feel those. I mean, I noticed the difference, but when I. And it wasn't until bodybuilding, so imagine I'm 30 years old when I finally unlocked. This was like when I knew the value, how much I had to. I knew I had to manipulate water. And so. And I didn't what everything that I had read going into bodybuilding, like, I knew how unhealthy it was for what these guys were doing. And I'm like, well, if I train myself to drink like 3 gallons and then I cut all the way down to, say, a half a gallon, I'm still in a really healthy place of water. And so that was my strategy. And so I began really pushing water like I'd never pushed water before. And of course with that came taking electrolytes in at the same time. And holy shit, the pumps are crazy. The Pumps were insane. I'm like, oh, my God. This whole time.

[Justin Andrews]

This whole time, all I need to.

[Sal DeStefano]

Do is just drink a bunch more water.

[Justin Andrews]

Free water.

[Sal DeStefano]

I mean, it makes a. It's. And I mean, it makes a huge difference. Like. Like the carbohydrate thing I had got. I figured it out down to the. The exact amount. Like if I had 70 to 80 grams of carbohydrates and I put a half a gallon of water in before my workout. Okay. Before. And then drink another quarter to half during the workout.

[Justin Andrews]

Great. Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Just incredible.

[Justin Andrews]

It's like a new steroid.

[Sal DeStefano]

It is. It was like better than the best pump product on the. On the. On the.

[Justin Andrews]

On the.

[Sal DeStefano]

On the market.

[Adam Schaefer]

Juice.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

You need it. Anyway, I.

[Sal DeStefano]

Wait, wait. Since you're splitting hair stuff.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Can we talk about the video that I Can I have Doug play the video for you so we can talk?

[Justin Andrews]

Sure.

[Sal DeStefano]

We're talking about splitting hair science.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Razor blades.

[Sal DeStefano]

I mean, Doug, play. Play the video I sent over Peter.

[Justin Andrews]

He was on Tom Billy. He was on.

[Sal DeStefano]

And the reason why I'm bringing this up is because I actually got quite a few dms. And I also wanted to talk about this because I had. Remember reading this. This science a long time ago, and I used to tout this information. And then I got a lot of people, ironically, from the science community. That's bro science.

[Justin Andrews]

That's.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's not like the protein disappears and you don't use it.

[Justin Andrews]

That's right. And so.

[Sal DeStefano]

So let. Play it for Justin and everybody so they can hear Doug. And then I'm gonna have Sal explain the nuance of this or the why. This doesn't matter because, yeah, I did get. I mean, this is on Tom. Tom's show. Tom's got it.

[Justin Andrews]

And Peter T. Is awesome.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. And exactly. That's why I love him.

[Justin Andrews]

I mean, if I had a dog, if I had to, you know, pick the doctor that I wanted, it would be him, you know, that he would be the guy.

[Adam Schaefer]

Solid information.

[Guest Expert (possibly a nutrition or fitness scientist)]

This is where it gets really crazy. If you're eating really small amounts of protein, like 20 grams at a time, you're not going to get muscle protein synthesis because the liver is going to. The liver basically takes first dibs on the protein and undergoes gluconeogenesis. It's just going to make glucose out of protein. So if you just trickle tiny amounts of protein in, you're not getting muscle protein synthesis.

[Sal DeStefano]

I'm turning it into glucose.

[Justin Andrews]

Really inefficient process. Yeah.

[Guest Expert (possibly a nutrition or fitness scientist)]

You're just. The liver is Turning it into glucose. If you eat tons of protein and the limit based on the literature, seems to be somewhere between 40 and 50 grams in one sitting.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay.

[Guest Expert (possibly a nutrition or fitness scientist)]

Once you exceed 40 to 50 grams in one sitting, the excess just goes into gluconeogenic.

[Justin Andrews]

So here's the thing with studies like this, so you can measure markers that will point us in a direction. Like here's a marker for fat oxidation, for example. So fat oxidation happens when you burn body fat. If you go on a ketogenic diet versus a, let's say balanced diet, both calorie deficit, you're going to see more fat oxidation in a ketogenic diet. Does that mean you burn more body fat? No, you don't burn more body fat. Muscle protein synthesis, you can measure this. And what you're measuring is the building, essentially it's adding, you're building proteins in your body. So that definitely can point to building muscle. Now here's what the data shows. If you eat 20 grams of protein 10 times a day, or you eat 40 grams of protein five times a day, both 200 grams of protein or.

[Sal DeStefano]

You eat 200 grams in one sitting.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, I'll get there, but I'm going to use these two comparisons.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay.

[Justin Andrews]

Is there going to be a difference in muscle growth and athletic performance and strength? No. Well, no difference.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, but be careful. I mean, what you just said right there doesn't counter at all. What he just think is, he says 40, 50, the limit.

[Justin Andrews]

You're right.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay.

[Justin Andrews]

You could go as high as 70. Okay. Now there is seems to be an effect on how long you wait between protein feedings, but it's probably four or five hours. It's not every other hour. So you could have breakfast, lunch, dinner, and have the same total amount of protein. It's not going to make a difference. It's not going to make a difference. At the end of the day. There seems to be an effect, like I said, with if you wait a long time, 200 grams at one sitting versus eating three meals, there might be a difference at the end of the day. Um, but.

So the whole, like if you eat 20 grams and you need 40 first, protein synthesis more than that, it turns into glucose.

At the end. Like when you look at the end result, it doesn't work out that way.

[Sal DeStefano]

So the reason why I also wanted to talk about it, because again, again, I'm going to bring my anecdotal evidence here, right? So this, you can throw it out the water for those science nerds that want to see 50 science or studies to Support what I'm saying. But my personal experience with how I section like I saw, I've always seen better results when I've broken my protein up than eating a 200 gram because I've done that before. I've had times where I'm like so behind on protein. I'm like, the protein shake plus the big steak meal, everything like that and.

[Justin Andrews]

I get a yeah, gee, I wonder why. How did you feel?

[Sal DeStefano]

I. Well, so that's probably the digestion process of that I'm sure. And, and nothing felt better than these nice 40 to 50 gram meals broken up six to eight times in a day. Just my body felt like it used.

[Justin Andrews]

It better because there's also inflammation with all that at one sitting and you just don't feel good. Will that play a role in muscle building? Maybe, you know, definitely. But what he's saying makes it sound like if you don't eat more than 20 grams of protein, you're not going to build muscle. And if you eat more than 50 grams of protein, you're wasting the protein.

[Sal DeStefano]

Exactly.

[Guest Expert (possibly a nutrition or fitness scientist)]

Wrong.

[Justin Andrews]

That's not true. Somebody who ate 20 grams of protein ate 10 times in a day is fine. They're fine. Somebody who ate 50 grams of protein four times in a day is fine too. Same amount of protein. And the data will show that it doesn' tit's not gonna make a difference at the end of the day when it comes to building muscle and brain body fat. Just like the fat oxidation studies with ketogenic versus balanced diets.

[Sal DeStefano]

So really just putting it. Although I do again, I think that then, then that's probably what I felt and probably the most important thing for someone to take away because I've had a lot of clients that have asked this before that struggle with getting protein and they're, you know, 120 grams shy.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

At 7:00 o' clock at night.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

You know, and they struggle with this like, hey, should I just not do it or should I stuff the 120 down? And you got to ask yourself like, well, we need to hit that protein intake really bad, you know, but is.

[Justin Andrews]

It worth the gastro?

[Sal DeStefano]

Exactly. But is it, but it, you know, am I going to be bloated afterwards and then on, on the toilet and it's just like if that's the case. But then, then I've also had other clients that I've met that can, can crush 80, 90 grams of protein and totally fine.

[Justin Andrews]

Yep.

[Sal DeStefano]

So I think that to me, the reason why I wanted to bring it up is so we could discuss That a little bit because I do think there's some importance there for the individual to to be make become aware of. Like how you handle eating 80 grams of protein in one sitting versus the.

[Justin Andrews]

Strongest considerations are digestion. Yes, digestion and does it fit your lifestyle? That right there is by far the biggest consideration. All this other stuff, like, I love guys like Peter Attia. I think he's brilliant. But the risk of people like him because he gets a lot of attention, being an authority, being a doctor, is they really get people caught in the weeds and then people miss the forest for the trees and they just. So now you got the average person just getting into fitness and like, well.

[Sal DeStefano]

That'S why, like this, that's why I want to bring it up because I must have had 8 DMS from the average fitness person. Not crazy like that, that listen to us a lot, listen to a lot of things he says and go, whoa, this is crazy. I, this is, this is. Doesn't sound like stuff you guys have communicated and you know, get to your point. This tends to send some people be like, oh, well, well, that's a waste. More than that, I'm just going to.

[Justin Andrews]

Convert it like fast. Fasting causes fat oxidation to go through the roof, but at the end of the day, it's the calories make the difference with fat. In fact, some studies that show that fasting might be not as effective because of the potential muscle loss, but again, that's even splitting hair. So you got to be careful when you look at these measures that tend to lead to the end result without looking at the end result. Because at the end of the day, the end result is what matters. I don't necessarily care about what he's saying unless the end result is more muscle. Less muscle, better performance, worse performance. If, if, if, if I'm looking at a measurement at the end of the day, it doesn't matter.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's the result.

[Justin Andrews]

Who cares?

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, and, or the digestion is the piece.

[Justin Andrews]

Right.

[Sal DeStefano]

Like, so if I have a client who's just like, yeah, I mean, I, I eat 60 grams in a sitting and feel totally fine. But I heard this thing that like.

[Justin Andrews]

I had gastric bypass patients who had to eat only 20 grams of protein in a meal because they couldn't eat more. And so they were eating all day long.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Because they had this tiny little pouch of a stomach.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

And so. And were they not building muscle? No, they built muscle just fine. Yeah. You know, I, I, along the bodybuilding and muscle building, I looked something up because there was this Article I read that talked about the mortality of pro bodybuilders. So if I say pro bodybuilding, I think most people would think not a healthy sport. Right. The amount of drugs that they use, the crazy dieting, the extreme dieting, and you just look at a pro bodybuilder and I think it screams to the average person it's probably not healthy. Right. You look at them, you're like, oh, that doesn't look, doesn't look, that's extreme. So I'm like, okay, are we just like, what's the actual data? I pulled it up, I got it saved here. What's the actual data on pro bodybuilding and its mortality? So pro bodybuilding, can we guess?

[Adam Schaefer]

Like it's a bit more protective than we think. Well, muscle.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, so here's what I did. I looked up pro body. Pro body, not bodybuilding. Pro bodybuilding, you have to be an IFBB pro. Okay, okay. So like the top level.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yes.

[Justin Andrews]

You compete all the time, all that stuff which, you know, that's the, that's like the highest level. What is their mortality compared to the general male population? And then what are the worst sports for mortality? Is bodybuilding in the worst sports?

[Sal DeStefano]

No, definitely. Footballers.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, so I'll tell you. It is. So I'll tell you one of them. So pro bodybuilders have a 34 to 50% higher rate of mortality than general male population. Oh, higher than general male. So like, and again, remember, these guys are using crazy drugs.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, there's also something else I'm going to add to you to that when you're done. I was waiting for you to finish that. There is a very high rate of addiction and drug abuse in the bodybuilding community. Aside from, aside from steroids.

[Justin Andrews]

You're right.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. You painkillers, every.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yes.

[Justin Andrews]

God. All drugs.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yes.

[Justin Andrews]

As long as they're calorie free and.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

You think I'm joking.

[Sal DeStefano]

No, that's a very, very, very real inject. Very, very.

[Justin Andrews]

I was having this conversation with some friends of mine because we were talking about like our past and this and that. These are some Christian friends of mine and they're like, do, do. I would have never thought you would have, you know, used substances like you're in so into fitness. They said I wouldn't use calorie containing substances. I said you, you were, you, you hang out with bodybuilders.

[Adam Schaefer]

Drinking. Ew, they won't drink.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yes.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, they're more worried about getting fat than they are about, you know, not.

[Sal DeStefano]

To, not to beat the dead horse with My whole issue and stuff like that. But that was the first justification of using the Vicodin recreationally was that I could just have one beer and that and then it was so I would have calories.

[Adam Schaefer]

Calorie consumption 100.

[Sal DeStefano]

That was the terrible logic compromise my 24 year old brain used when I was on the butt. Yeah. So it's very, very. So you got to factor that in too right there because I.

[Justin Andrews]

It would be just the overall lifestyle.

[Adam Schaefer]

Sure.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Like I bet, I bet. You know, be interesting if you did natural pro bodybuilders.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, I'm sure it's great. I'm sure they're okay.

[Sal DeStefano]

I bet it would make a huge difference.

[Justin Andrews]

So check this out though. I looked up what are the five deadliest sports by.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay. Football's top five.

[Justin Andrews]

It's not. No, it's not.

[Sal DeStefano]

No.

[Justin Andrews]

Really?

[Sal DeStefano]

Well think about boxing.

[Justin Andrews]

Think of the crazy sports. Because once I say some of these wingsuits.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh well that's the wingsuit guys.

[Justin Andrews]

Number two.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's because they, they die in the, in the sport.

[Justin Andrews]

Bro.

[Sal DeStefano]

Bro.

[Justin Andrews]

Wings. Check this out. At per 100, 000 flights, there's two to 300 deaths. Two to 300 deaths per one, bro.

[Sal DeStefano]

Have you ever seen, did you see the wings? Did you guys see, did you guys.

[Justin Andrews]

See the documentary on them at the end of it? Didn't they all die?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, there was like the documentary, it had all the names and they were like this is how many died during the recording of this?

[Adam Schaefer]

Like it's like 70.

[Justin Andrews]

Yes. Dude.

[Sal DeStefano]

It was like holy crap.

[Justin Andrews]

You know what's higher than that Than, than the wingsuits. Yes.

[Sal DeStefano]

I thought that was the highest.

[Justin Andrews]

No, base jumping. Oh yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Base.

[Justin Andrews]

Base jumping is 431 deaths per 100,000 jumps. So one out of 232 because of equipment failure, collisions, low altitude errors.

[Adam Schaefer]

What about like deep dive? Oh, oh, like cave diving.

[Justin Andrews]

No, it's not, it's not there.

[Adam Schaefer]

How can you not cave diving?

[Justin Andrews]

You know what number three is? Mountaineering. Mountaineering.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

And you want to know what the death rate is for Mount Everest? This is crazy. I didn't know this.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, it's like very few acts of.

[Adam Schaefer]

Body of.

[Justin Andrews]

Forget about.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's why it's such a big deal. The climate.

[Justin Andrews]

Forget about. Make it. How many people die? Yeah, one out of ten. That's.

[Sal DeStefano]

I mean that's why it's such a big deal to climb it, bro.

[Justin Andrews]

You have a 10% chance of dying after all that training, Everything. Yeah. To go up to try to climb Mount Everest one at a time.

[Sal DeStefano]

I'm willing to bet, though, a good percentage of that, 10% of the people that think they could just go. Climate.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's such a problem. At one point where there, everybody. It was like. Like too many people were doing it once where they all got stopped. Like, it was like a traffic stop because, like, there was too many bodies that were up there that they hadn't brought down yet. And so it was like blocking the path.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, my God. Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Isn't it common that on a. On an Everest climb that someone will see a dead body on the way? Isn't that like a.

[Justin Andrews]

Isn't that's what I've heard.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

One guy recorded while he was doing it, a dead body was just sliding down the mountain.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, my God. Okay, wait, so we got wingsuit, we.

[Justin Andrews]

Got hiking, base jumping, mountaineering. What's number four? I wouldn't guess number four.

[Sal DeStefano]

Are any of these. Okay, almost all these are pointing to, like, the extreme out.

[Adam Schaefer]

Okay, so they're all like stuntmen or.

[Sal DeStefano]

Like climbing trees or sawings. Something weird of something.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. Oh, no, the oil.

[Adam Schaefer]

The oil riggers, like those guys.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, that's not a sport. That's a joke.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

That's crazy.

You don't get paid.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's fun.

[Justin Andrews]

Big wave surfing, number four.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, wow.

[Justin Andrews]

Big wave surfing.

[Sal DeStefano]

Wow.

[Justin Andrews]

I know, right? Isn't that crazy? And then number five is heliskiing. This is where they helicopter you in.

[Sal DeStefano]

See, now and then you ski down. I'd like to see. These are all dying in the sport.

[Justin Andrews]

Yes.

[Sal DeStefano]

So. Which is different than bodybuilding, like, because of the sport. Right.

[Adam Schaefer]

So, yeah, like the aftermath of it.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

I'd be more interested in, like, traditional sports where they rank well, I bet, because those are all. Everyone you named are. The reason why they're so high is because they die doing the thing. Yeah, they died. Not a lot of. Not a lot of people die doing football or die doing these other sports. But because abuse on their body, they have a short.

[Justin Andrews]

But what's crazy about this is as.

[Sal DeStefano]

I'm reading this, yes, it is common to see bodies on Everest. I knew that was true.

[Justin Andrews]

Crazy, dude. So as I'm reading this and thinking this morning, as I'm going through this, I'm thinking to myself, over 200 bodies.

[Sal DeStefano]

Are estimated to remain on the mountain.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

They just keep them. They can't get them.

[Adam Schaefer]

I swear there was, like a traffic jam for them to get up.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, they can't get up. Whoa.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

How eerie would that be to be on a Climbing. Like having to step over a dead body.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, sorry, that's not cool.

[Justin Andrews]

All right, so you know here what I'm going to say. So as I'm going through this, I'm thinking to myself, like, you know, the average person will see a pro bodybuilder and they would think, oh, God, you're putting, look what you're doing to yourself. You're putting yourself at high risk. We. Whereas a base jumper, mountaineer, big wave surfer wouldn't get that same stigma, even though it's far more dangerous. Like you meet a big wave surfer. I think if my child decided to.

[Sal DeStefano]

Take up BASE jumping, I probably encourage bodybuilding.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

I don't know, bro. Those are, those are so extreme. That's why it's not a great example.

[Justin Andrews]

Because I didn't know big wave surfing was so dangerous.

[Mind Pump Intro Announcer]

Think about it, those big waves slamming you into the.

[Listener Question Host]

The ground.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Big wave surfing is different than surfing.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Serving is one thing.

[Adam Schaefer]

You have jet skis to pull you out. There's no way.

[Justin Andrews]

I wouldn't do it. Yeah. No way. All right, I'm going to go back. We talked about the pump earlier. Do you know what creates a crazy boost in nitric oxide for the pump? Red light therapy. Massive. No, massive.

[Sal DeStefano]

A lot.

[Justin Andrews]

A lot, dude.

[Adam Schaefer]

So now we have our pre workout water juice, bro.

[Sal DeStefano]

That I never, that I never did.

[Justin Andrews]

So I never thought I have yet to do this. So I would love to red light a body part of my workout and then go hit it. Did you notice though, because you use it to be consistent. Don't you notice you get a little bit, you feel a little bit of a pump afterwards?

[Sal DeStefano]

I just feel I.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's a trip after recovery. Yeah. After I was done.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's normally after showers for me. So it's like a nice. I feel like I've sat in a tanning bed. It's so weird.

[Justin Andrews]

It is.

[Sal DeStefano]

It feels like I got a little bit tanner. I have a little bit more energy.

[Justin Andrews]

I think the nitric oxide of the skin too comes out a little bit. So you get a nice color, you know. Did you know that studies will show 20 to 40% faster glycogen replenishment? 20 to 40% faster. So imagine you're an athlete, let's say you're a cyclist and you're training twice a day? Because it's like intense and you know, one of the challenges with training multiple times a day is the second workout. You need to get replenished so you can perform again. Imagine now you, you Know you're eating. You're doing all the stuff you're supposed to eating. Your carbohydrates. But you red light your quads 40 faster.

[Sal DeStefano]

Imagine. Imagine stacking creatine, cold plunge and red light right. All before workout.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh yeah, dude. Oh yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

You're zipping.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh yeah. I would like to do it. So you're doing it today. You're working out today?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, I'm not doing all that stuff right now.

[Justin Andrews]

No, no, no, no. What do you.

[Sal DeStefano]

My workouts today are very pathetic. No, I'm not. I'm probably not gonna. Well, actually I might do some real easy stuff. I didn't get good sleep last night.

[Justin Andrews]

Okay. Yeah, well, I was gonna say terrible sleep. What if you did this? What if you just want to point that out?

[Sal DeStefano]

I told you, I just want to point that.

[Justin Andrews]

I knew it wouldn't be as good.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, it was terrible. It went from.

[Justin Andrews]

I had a good.

[Sal DeStefano]

My first good night's sleep back five days. Thanks, but keep going.

[Justin Andrews]

I'm trying to. Just trying to help.

[Adam Schaefer]

We're gonna bring it up.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. So wait.

[Sal DeStefano]

I've been waiting to tell him that over here.

[Justin Andrews]

Over here.

[Sal DeStefano]

All grouchy advice.

[Justin Andrews]

You want to get the details about this?

[Sal DeStefano]

What is the advantage advice?

[Justin Andrews]

No, it was. We don't need to go into this.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, I'm curious.

[Justin Andrews]

Trust me. It was. It was. It was better. It was better than what he was.

[Sal DeStefano]

It was better for health, but it was terrible for my sleep because I. I'm on a whole stack of things to try and get myself to sleep right now. And I've. I'm. And that's like the next hill to climb for me is slowly coming off the melatonin and all the other things that I'm. I'm stacking to put myself to sleep. And so he was trying to be. He was trying to give me good healthy advice. My wife looked at me and be like, are you sure you got your first night of sleep? You sure you want to all of a sudd that already?

[Adam Schaefer]

Like.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, you know, Sal brings up a good point and so. And then. Yeah, I paid for it.

[Justin Andrews]

Sorry. All right, we go. Sal, what I was going to say is today, if you work out your arms. What if you red lighted one arm and then work both arms out and notice. See if you notice the difference.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, so the string. Who did that? Was it? No, was it. What's it.

[Justin Andrews]

Was it.

[Sal DeStefano]

What's his face. Orange glass guy of Dave.

[Listener Question Host]

Asprey Dave.

[Sal DeStefano]

Thank you.

[Justin Andrews]

Orange glass.

[Adam Schaefer]

I knew exactly.

[Sal DeStefano]

I knew Doug knew Right away, too.

[Justin Andrews]

Butthole sunning.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

I think he's the one who did the. The one for recovery. One leg and not the other. I think it was him. I don't remember, but measured a huge difference in the recovery side. So you mean it'd be interesting to see the reverse of that. I haven't heard anyone do the reverse to get a pump.

[Justin Andrews]

I wonder if red light therapy before sex would be a good idea for. For men who. Who need help with erectiles. Seriously, That's a natural oxide issue, and you can red light yourself there. In fact, it boosts testosterone because when you get the red light on, it does raise testosterone. That's. The studies will show that's when we use it.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, it's right after shower. First thing. First thing.

[Justin Andrews]

Before. Before.

[Sal DeStefano]

Go to bed. Yeah, before.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. So both her and I. Oh, you.

[Justin Andrews]

Guys are having sex.

[Sal DeStefano]

No wonder that boy Juve would love that commercial. Rather like improve your sex life by tenfold.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, that move.

[Sal DeStefano]

I mean, we don't do it for that intent. It's just. That's how it works out. Like, we put Max down. I typically get in the shower first. I read light. Afterwards, she's in the shower. By the time she gets out of the shower, I just leave it on. She goes. Right. And then it's like. That's kind of our routine.

[Adam Schaefer]

Roxanne.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

You know, put on your red light. You guys want to hear some cat and dog? An interesting cat and dog fact? Yeah. You guys are. You guys are dog fans, right?

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, yes.

[Justin Andrews]

People fall into one or two categories, Right? Either typically, either a cat or a dog person.

[Adam Schaefer]

I put up with cats, but no. Yeah, dogs.

[Justin Andrews]

There's.

[Sal DeStefano]

Dogs win.

[Justin Andrews]

There is a big difference. Everybody. I mean, pets are great, but come on. Like, cats, they're not going to do anything.

I know, but they're not cool. They don't care about you.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, I know.

[Justin Andrews]

They just don't.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Anyway, some people, like, they're fluffy when they're hungry, maybe. But check this out.

[Sal DeStefano]

Way less maintenance.

[Justin Andrews]

Check this out.

[Adam Schaefer]

That is true.

[Justin Andrews]

Studies show dog ownership reduces the risk of dementia by 40%.

[Sal DeStefano]

Cats.

[Justin Andrews]

No difference. No difference.

[Sal DeStefano]

Cats don't give a shit about you.

[Justin Andrews]

I think you just. Yeah. Get the same love.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, there's a. There's way more of a.

[Adam Schaefer]

There's a lot more interaction. Like, a lot more. You have to kind of. You got to go walk with them. You got to.

[Justin Andrews]

You got to do a lot with social interaction. Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

I mean, I know it's terrible. Everybody's freaks out. But I can do this because I have a kid now. But a dog is more like having a kid than a cat is like having a kid.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, that makes sense. Yeah, totally.

[Sal DeStefano]

Right? I mean, that's a fair comparison.

[Justin Andrews]

Way more energy into it.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, yeah. And you could literally, you can leave for a week from your house and your cat is fine.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

As long as it can go the bathroom and it can go to work.

[Justin Andrews]

Sometimes you come back and you don't.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

They go out and murder and. And, you know, if we've missed like a feeding or whatever, they just go murder something and eat it.

[Sal DeStefano]

I mean, that's. I think that's one of the appealing parts that. Why you like people like cats, though, is because of that. Because it's a. It's in a companion kind of that's around the house and there's different breeds. Right. I had chilled, remember I told you guys, when I had my craz rag doll that I had shipped from New York when I had a cat, and it was like, had kind of dog like personality. So it would. It hang around me and it would sit on my lap.

[Justin Andrews]

You would have a cat ship from New York.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

I mean, they've ruined.

[Adam Schaefer]

They've ruined my, like, working out experience. So I'll be honest.

[Justin Andrews]

What do you mean?

[Adam Schaefer]

Because I got them downstairs, like, in the garage, and, you know, that's where all my workout equipment is. And, you know, late at night, they'll bring in something and eat it. And then there's like, entrails they never eat. Like, and it's always like a colon, like right there on my. I have to, like, mop it up and. And it's just, you know, and it's.

[Justin Andrews]

I.

[Adam Schaefer]

And I want to encourage it because there's, like, vermin that they're destroying, and it's awesome. But it's like.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's the part. The part that I can like. I. We. Katrina's not a cat person. I'm not really either, but I would consider for our houses for that because we have been backed up to the, like the forest like that.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

We get all kinds of rats, snakes.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's inevitable.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. So just to have. Just to have, you know, what. What we have that we have to. We battle right now, which is really interesting. I think it's the raccoons that do it. That they poop in the pool. No, no, that would be weird. Oh, yeah. They. During this season right now is they. They dig up all the grubs on my lawn.

[Justin Andrews]

So they leave holes yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

So it looks like it took me forever to figure out what that was.

[Justin Andrews]

That's raccoons. Yes, I get that sometimes. Yes.

[Sal DeStefano]

They're digging for the grubs underneath the. Underneath the grass.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, I told you about the skunks. That one tripped me out. Where they actually dig up like yellow jacket nests and they eat them.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Yeah, that's kind of cool.

[Adam Schaefer]

And I don't like it normally, but that was sick.

[Sal DeStefano]

But this sucks. So I. The only way I found out was because I just thought it was like something was messing up with my lawn.

[Justin Andrews]

I'm like, man, why is my gophers or something.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yes. Or gophers. And I'm like, Katrina. And I do like a walk through our neighborhoods. I'm like, oh, look, they have the same problem on their lawn. And that's, that's weird. How are we all having the same issue? That's kind of random. Talk to our, our ex owner who you sell the holidays. Like, oh, yeah, no, you got it during the season this time you got to put this like, like repellent stuff on there and it'll keep them.

[Justin Andrews]

Have you guys seen some of the wild pigs up in the hills? Yeah. Oh, dude, we were driving home.

[Adam Schaefer]

My in laws.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, well, we were driving from a friend of ours house who lived like kind of somewhat deep in the cuts here. But nothing, nothing crazy because it's not too many here. But we were driving home. They're like, watch out for the pigs. I'm like. And he's like, no, seriously, if you hit it aggressive. Dude, bro, it was huge. It's like this big. Yeah, like, oh my God, that's honorary.

[Sal DeStefano]

And they destroy stuff.

[Adam Schaefer]

Like werewolves. Once they like, you know, are out in the wild and you know, when.

[Sal DeStefano]

They'Re domesticated, they're all pink and that's why Texas, you shoot them with a.

[Adam Schaefer]

Machine gun out of a tusks, like just everywhere. Yeah, dude, they're crazy, dude.

[Justin Andrews]

Wild. They're mean. I got, I got some more, some more studies for you guys. I looked up today's sponsored by Rock Recovery. So it's a rehab facility that if you go on our link, they're giving away scholarships. Excuse me, but I looked up data. Do you know what the odds of success are going in a inpatient recovery facility? And success is measured by like 5 year, 10 year relapse. Do you know how much better your odds are when you go in a facility versus try to do it on your own? Oh, well, no, you triple your triple, triple, triple the potential that you're gonna stay.

[Sal DeStefano]

I thought it was still really low.

[Justin Andrews]

It's like 50.

[Rubrik Agent Cloud Advertiser]

Oh.

[Justin Andrews]

Versus, like, 10.

[Adam Schaefer]

Wow.

[Sal DeStefano]

I didn't. I didn't realize that. I actually thought it was as an.

[Adam Schaefer]

Average of, like, all.

[Sal DeStefano]

I thought it was actually still really low. I know that it's. It's definitely one of the. Remember that documentary body.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Body counters or body brokers. Yeah, Body brokers. Thank you. I thought they covered that stat in there of, like, how unsuccessful a lot of them are now. A lot of them. That's why I think, obviously, what. What drew us to Tom and Ben and our relationship with. Obviously, we had no one. We had no idea that that would turn into some sort of a partnership. We became friends first. They've been huge fans of the show forever. We got to know them, and it was them who, like, made us privy to, like, what they're trying to do in that space is trying to disrupt the traditional way, which is. It's a really.

[Justin Andrews]

So here's something that's interesting, too. So working with someone like them will double to triple your odds.

Over time. An addict has a 75% chance of succeeding, which I didn't realize. I thought that addicts. Just. The rate of relapse just like, oh, my God, you just forget about it. That's actually a lie. It's actually a lie. Most people that struggle with addiction eventually will succeed, especially when they go to therapy. And that'll just triple your odds. Encouraging.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. So, you know, if you're struggling, like, just get some help, dude. Yeah, it'll make a huge, huge difference with your. You know, with your odds. Anyway, you guys want to hear something terrible? Really terrible.

Have you guys heard about. What is their. So there was this.

There was this reporter that was. That is reporting because she's been interviewing these people that are talking about things that happened in the. In the early 90s in Sarajevo that are just wild. So there were human safaris, what. Done in Syria. So Sarajevo was like a. Like, it was like a war zone.

[Sal DeStefano]

Human safaris.

[Justin Andrews]

Yes. So let me explain. So Sarajevo was like a war zone at this time. So it's like, all kinds of chaos going on or whatever. And there are wealthy people that would pay these military, you know, people, mercenaries or whatever that would be able to go over there, and for money, they would go and they would shoot people. What?

[Adam Schaefer]

They would shoot people.

[Justin Andrews]

They would shoot people where they would. Civilians.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's sick.

[Justin Andrews]

Civilians. Where they. And they would pay. It says here in chilling detail, there's. This is a case that war Tourists from Europe, Canada and Russia and in the US would spend between 70,000 to 88,000 pounds back then to take part in a manhunt. And they would even pay extra to. This is terrible.

[Adam Schaefer]

This goes in with, like, a lot of the stuff I've heard about some of these, like. Like Rothschild kind of families where they. They had, you know, people over in parties, and they would, like, run them in the forest and hunt them down. Like, stuff like that. You hear, like, folklore.

[Justin Andrews]

No, this was crazy when you.

[Sal DeStefano]

When you hear something like that. And I remember the movie. The Game.

[Justin Andrews]

Yes.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, the Game.

[Sal DeStefano]

And you just think that's something so absurd and crazy. It's like some of that's probably birthed from true stories like that. Stuff like that really used to happen. Or that was the one where they would go get. They would go get homeless people and they would strap money belts around them and have. I don't remember if it was like, a hundred thousand dollars or something like that in the money belt. And it's like, you get to keep the money if you survive.

[Adam Schaefer]

So dehumanizing.

[Justin Andrews]

Terrible.

[Sal DeStefano]

And it was. Then you went, I can't.

[Justin Andrews]

But it's so evil. People. People question whether or not evil exists. Like, come on, man.

[Sal DeStefano]

Do you.

[Adam Schaefer]

The Russian oligarchs, didn't they. They signed up for, like, fighting those pirates off the coast.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, that was where you could pay money to pay money. Pirates. But that's not as bad because they're pirates. Although that's still.

[Adam Schaefer]

They're criminals.

[Justin Andrews]

That's. You're still a psycho. You, like, sign up to go kill people, and they're like, well, you're justifying. Because it's a pirate. They're bad people. Okay. Yeah. These were civilians. These were like. You go up in the mountains and they give you sniper gear. This is what the article said. And you would snipe civilians and you pay money.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's crazy to be able to do.

[Justin Andrews]

This.

[Sal DeStefano]

Since you went this way. Doug loves when we talk about politics.

Do you think this. It feels this way to me, but I could be off base because I'm not as deep as you are in all this stuff. It feels like we're starting to wake up to the left and right bullshit. Do you feel like that? It feels to me that. It feels to me. I'm seeing even, like. Because obviously I follow a lot of party. Yeah. I own. I lean more towards conservative values. Right. So more of the stuff. I know. I watch both. I watch more that. And I'm starting to see even, like, Patriot type pages and conservative type people calling out a lot of the bullshit on, on the right even. It does seem like there's.

[Justin Andrews]

I care so much less about this than I used to, but when I see it now, it still seems like they the same game. So what I mean by that is.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, it's the same.

[Adam Schaefer]

They're doing the same thing. I think now there's so many more phones and eyes and information that can travel so quickly that like there's people like if you're looking for being privy to what's happening, you can find it.

[Justin Andrews]

I'll, I'll put it this way. There are the people who have a lot of influence and power that many of us don't even know who they are and that they have a lot of money and power and influence and they see the trends and they can grab ahold of it. Doesn't matter where the trend goes, they'll manipulate that trend. And so what you had was this huge swing to the right. And so what it appears to me is that they're just manipulating that now like they did with the left when left like they did when Bush was president when it was conservative. And a lot of that was insane.

[Adam Schaefer]

All of it leads to just more.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. So it's. My point is the, the game has not changed. No, the game is the same. But it feels to me like we're waking up more to. Feels like more people. And I actually think a lot of the Epstein file stuff is what's doing it because a lot of what Trump kind of ran on and even maybe somebody that's on the middle would consider themselves moderate was like, hey, he's gonna, he's gonna go, he's, he's pulling for us to get so we could pull the, the curtain back. And now all of a sudden he's playing the game of not pulling it back. And now again they're, they're talking about how it's going to come out again and what it seems, it's almost obvious to me and I would think that a lot of people are smart enough to read, read between the lines is that if we ever get to see this list, it will be so redacted and anybody who's really pulling any strings will be the people they'll probably have a couple of. There'll be a couple people that get what sacrificed that will go, oh my God, he or her or whatever.

[Adam Schaefer]

Mike Johnson's already said that. Like there's parts of it that may be classified still and so that can't be released. So there's already this qualifier that's like sent out like. Yeah, so we'll get the unclassified version of it. Which what is that? Like everything's blacked out but like two sentences, you know, Remember the stunt they.

[Sal DeStefano]

Pulled when they had all those like conservative influencers come out and they all.

[Justin Andrews]

Had the we're release it.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, they all taking pictures.

[Justin Andrews]

We caught it.

[Sal DeStefano]

There's a bunch of type, types of stuff with blacked out. I mean so. But I mean they're doing it. They've gone so hard. And to Justin's point, there's so many phones out there and there's so many people that are going down the rabbit holes and connecting dots and it's like. It feels to me that more and more people are realizing that both sides of the aisle are actually on the same team. And it's us versus them, left versus right.

[Justin Andrews]

But there's two sides of that, right? It's a double edged sword. More phones, more information, more opportunities to manipulate. And by the way, everybody, if we ever get to the point where we trust nothing, which is where we're getting. I know that doesn't mean we woke up. What that means now is we trust nothing. And what people will demand is an arbitrator of truth. Because we can't live in a world where we trust nothing. We need somebody or something. What is real? What is the answer?

[Adam Schaefer]

That's AI.

[Justin Andrews]

And we're gonna want. Yeah, we're gonna want. No, no, we need someone to like certify that this is real. And who's gonna do that? The government.

[Sal DeStefano]

So where are you guys on the dead Internet thing? Do you. Where do you stand?

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, I brought that up a long time ago. I think it's definitely taken over. There's. There's not going to be a lot of real information.

[Sal DeStefano]

I just, I, I think it's gonna, it's gonna happen so much faster than everybody thinks.

[Justin Andrews]

Listen, I'll tell you guys what. Forest Frank just did a clip. So he's a popular Christian artist, but also just popular across the board. And he just talked about how the top two Christian songs right now are AI. That's crazy. The number one and number two songs in America in Christian music are AI. Now gets on there.

[Sal DeStefano]

Now wrap your brain around. Justin's been calling AI as the Antichrist since day one. Said it's like.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, you know what he said? He said it's not inspired by the Holy spirit. And he's talking about it and some people like, yeah, you just want to sell Records. I mean, I. I think AI Is interesting. We're what we're do at best. Here's what we're doing at best. We are creating.

An image of ourselves and who are we? Broken messed up things. But your average person, that's at best. But it's going to be worse than.

[Adam Schaefer]

That person's using it like a genie. Like it's. It knows all. Like it doesn't lie. It doesn't like have hallucinations. It doesn't like. And that's already been proven. Half.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

You understand that it makes up half of the content.

[Justin Andrews]

Yep. The spirit that drove the arms race with nuclear weapons, which if you look back, why do we do that? Oh my God, we have more enough nukes to destroy the earth seven times and over. The spirit that drove that, which is the other guys doing it. I got to do the same spirit that's driving.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

And everybody knows.

[Sal DeStefano]

Meaning that we have to do it because if we don't, they will.

[Justin Andrews]

But it's a bad thing, so let's do it. Right. Right.

[Sal DeStefano]

But it doesn't matter. We need it. We need to have no. As much. And have as much control of the bad thing before the other guy has that much control because then he can use it again.

[Justin Andrews]

But it's going to kill us.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's totally going to kill us.

[Justin Andrews]

But yeah, I mean, we got to.

[Adam Schaefer]

Do it, so we got to do it.

[Sal DeStefano]

Is there an, Is there an optimistic view for you out?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, yeah, dude, it's. But, but now I'm a Christian now, so my optimism is based on that. Dude, it ain't best based on humans. It ain't based on what we're gonna do. Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

To begin with.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

I mean, I mean you're, you're deep in the, in the reading right now. Like, how many times in history have we had major revivals?

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, there's been some modern ones that have happened.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. That was like in the 70s. I mean, 70 80s. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

You had. Yeah, you had quite a few. There's a big one happening right now. But it's supposed to get a lot worse before things get better.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's typically what it takes.

[Justin Andrews]

But even if I take look. If I take out my, my faith and I just look at this like as a secular individual. So if I go back two years before I believed in and you know, I had my faith, I would look at this and go, yeah, this. I don't, I don't. We're not gonna, I don't think we're gonna make it out of this one.

[Adam Schaefer]

I look at as the rise and fall of empires. Like, it's cyclical. It's very.

[Justin Andrews]

Like we just never had the means. So much damage.

[Sal DeStefano]

Jesus. Please don't say, like, Roman Empire file.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, of course. Like, why. Like, that's the thing. I mean, it's, it's possibility. Like, why wouldn't it be? It's happened and throughout history and I feel like we. The only thing we can reference is actual historic events. And so, you know, like empires, they get to a certain saturation point where they're too powerful. They got too. Whatever the technology is at the time. They, you know, get to a certain degree and.

[Sal DeStefano]

And then it's.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's this. I don't know if it's an overconfidence or it's. It's a lack of like, spiritual understanding or like any kind of like tampered. Like, like morality there where it just like goes. Spreads itself too thin. It implodes.

[Justin Andrews]

Let me just point out to the silliness of this. Okay, so this is Grant. This is now given that we can create artificial general intelligence, because some people still debate that, but I think it'll happen in the way that. In the ways that we can do it. Right. So we're going to create this. Our goal is to create an all powerful artificially generally intelligent computer system that we completely control that will do what we want. You know how silly that sounds? That's like an ant being like, I'm gonna control Adam. You didn't even know how. So it's just stupid. It's the dumbest thing I've ever heard in my life. That's the best case scenario. Is it gonna happen? It's just gonna be benevolent? Yeah. It'll do what we want. And then what's the second option?

[Sal DeStefano]

It's gonna love us. It'll be.

[Justin Andrews]

Be smarter and more powerful than us than we could ever imagine. But it'll be so benevolent. We're not even benevolent.

[Rubrik Agent Cloud Advertiser]

No, we're not.

[Adam Schaefer]

We're based off human nature, which is like, what, who built it?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

So it's a reflection. It's us magnified, you know, to a level we haven't seen.

[Sal DeStefano]

So do you not. Do you not see as we go down this rabbit hole, it that people waking up to that and going like, oh, like this is. I mean, this is when people are.

[Justin Andrews]

Going to wake up, dude. Huh?

[Sal DeStefano]

It's too late. I don't know. I mean, I think this is. So this is why I keep going back to the. The plugged and unplugged theory is that I think, I think it'll get worse before it gets better. I think it'll take, you know, I think there's a. I have a lot of close people in my own circle that are just, are just naive to all of it. You know what I'm saying? And then I have like full on adopters and then I have full on like. So I have all of it in within my circle. I think the. It's. It'll take, it'll take enough like really bad things to happen for the naive people to go like, oh, this is crazy. And then it'll force them to kind of choose. Do they go all in on the people that are like, no, it's better.

[Adam Schaefer]

For us in people will allow like the unplugged have their own space in society or they want to control and manipulate them.

[Justin Andrews]

Of course I, yeah, you have to pay a fee. Here's to be unplugged.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's only my concern.

[Sal DeStefano]

I have, I personally have faith in, in the, the unplugged people because I think a lot of those people will be the people that will be heavily armed and a lot of land and a lot of like. So good luck trying to go get those, bro.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, I don't think so.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, as far as what Justin's saying is leave alone like, I don't see, I don't see the AI. AI full adopt people trying, trying to oppress. Now whatever you believe with how crazy AI gets in control, it gets the people who are, who are adopting it fully. I don't think they're like, oh, let's go oppress those people because good luck. Because I think those would be the wrong people to try and oppress. Those will be the most probably in my opinion, those will be the last fighting group. Yeah, exactly. Like those are the. Let's think about the person who's all, who's all bought into AI and the person who's likely not to like, can you just envision.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, but they won't let you go anywhere. So you're gonna have this limited space to, to, to move and, and I don't know. I guess my concern with that is like, it's so much easier because if you just play this out in terms of like how like government likes to act and like what they like to dictate. It's like we love, we would love to dictate whether or not you could travel, whether or not you could buy certain things, whether or not you can go into this area or Not. And it's like, you know, that magnified and here.

[Justin Andrews]

We'll give you everything you want. You just do what we tell you. We'll give you everything.

[Adam Schaefer]

I guess that's my concern.

[Justin Andrews]

You're going to feel so good. You're going to have all the great feelings and crazy weird stuff. And here, just plug in. Don't worry about it. We'll give you everything. You don't need to do anything. How many people are going to turn that down? Not too many.

[Adam Schaefer]

So we're going to need some plugged in people on our side. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Helping us.

You know what's fun? You know what's wild about this? Probably going to happen in our lifetime.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, probably.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Come on. I. Dude, I think I really don't.

[Justin Andrews]

Want to be doing this podcast on AM radio in a basement in a bunker.

[Adam Schaefer]

We're going to have a ship you talk about.

[Justin Andrews]

All right, guys.

[Adam Schaefer]

Pirate radio.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. This is the rebellion, you know? Yeah. Everybody. I'll definitely be starting that one. I'll see you guys in the gulags.

[Sal DeStefano]

I mean, hopefully we've.

[Justin Andrews]

We've.

[Sal DeStefano]

We've grown big enough that we have a good enough group of people that got some land and got some bunkers that we can come crash out at. I think it's that point for sure.

[Adam Schaefer]

Start making some friends.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

So.

[Sal DeStefano]

Because I know we haven't built that for ourselves and you make me want to. I don't think we realize how fast it's coming with, with Moore's law.

[Justin Andrews]

And in five years it's gonna be weird. Five years.

[Sal DeStefano]

Moore's law has been crazy the last 20 years. Pre. AI. Okay, pre that. Like, I shared on. I shared that stat the other day. Like what printing press did as far as how much double the information. Then when television double, like, it's like we are doubling the information at like, the infinite amount faster than we were just a decade ago. Like, so when your brain, your brain is still stuck in the past 40 years of your life, of. Oh, yeah, this invention comes and that invention comes.

[Justin Andrews]

It's about this long.

[Sal DeStefano]

We're at the point, like every day.

[Justin Andrews]

We're already at the point where it's making better music than people. Yeah, that's art. It's already making better music. We're here right now.

[Adam Schaefer]

3D printing revolution hasn't really begun yet. Oh, I think that's going to be the next, like, really crazy.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, AI is going to print you what you want. I need a drug that'll give me this, that, and the other.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's Going to be weird.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, that, that's going to be interesting because so much of our GDP is based on consumerism, right? And that's a big part of what's. Props up. This crazy, you know, 30 trillion, whatever trillion dollars that we're in debt or whatever is that GDP always continues to grow. And so we justify this crazy debt that we have. But when all of a sudden 3D printers can, can print a lot of anything and everything that you want and you don't need.

[Justin Andrews]

You know what's, you know what's even crazier, guys? Even if we did the, even if we achieve the utopia that some people think where we have everything we want and the AI serves us and does everything we want, that will be hell for most people. No purpose. No.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's why you're, you're, you're. What's your black and white show? You share. I love that. I love that story. It's the best Twilight Zone. That's the best story ever. It's so good. It's such a great, a great story because it's so true. You think, think and you know, I guess mo most people that have reached that level that they thought maybe when they were a kid or that thing that, that drove them really on that, that know that whether that was writing the number one bestseller, people we've talked to was that the guy who said once I got to $100 million that we know, like there, there's everybody that we know that has set some crazy lofty goal that they have that has driven them their whole life to achieve. When they get there, it's unhappy.

[Justin Andrews]

That's right.

[Sal DeStefano]

So it's of course, of course if like the worst thing that could happen to us is give us everything that we want, you know.

[Justin Andrews]

All right, here we go.

[Sal DeStefano]

Doom and gloom.

[Justin Andrews]

And on the positive, government cheese.

Element is an electrolyte powder that is amazing. The right amount of sodium to get your muscles to contract, hydrate your body, give you better pumps, no sugar, no artificial sweeteners. It's the best one. Go check them out. Go to drinkelementtea.com mindpump on that link. You'll get a free sample pack of the most popular drink, mixed flavors with any purchase. Back to the show.

[Listener Question Host]

First question is from 4 Firefly, how to scale back on cardio when you've done intense endurance for 15 years.

[Justin Andrews]

Really easy. This is really easy.

[Adam Schaefer]

Do less.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, you just stop. No, honestly. So if your goal is to maintain a certain level of endurance or you got a competition, then this becomes a little bit more of a measured approach. But if you're like, look, I got to back off and focus on strength training, the faster you cut this out and start strength training, the faster the results will happen.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

So you literally stop. I think the fear here, I mean, if I'm going to guess the fear here is if I cut back on all this cardio, might he gain all this crazy body fat? In which case. No. I've had clients like this and I've had them go way down, do a little bit of strength training, not increase their calories yet. We'll wait till a little later and then just suddenly build strength.

[Sal DeStefano]

I mean, the other fear is the, the psychological addiction to it too.

[Justin Andrews]

Good point.

[Sal DeStefano]

So that's why this is a little bit hard to answer without like talking live on air with this person to kind of feel out, who are you? Right. Are you the, like, so addicted to running that you, you know, you run your, how many 20 miles a week or more or whatever it is every week and you've been doing it for 15 years and you're psychologically addicted to that. And so you're asking us telling you to rip the band aid off and just stop would be like, oh, right. You know, so. But you're right. The faster you do it, the more. So sometimes with someone, like, if that's this person, I'm just speculating now.

A lot of times I'll allow them to do the same amount of time. It just, it changes to walking. It's like what. When you would go out for that hour run or however many mile run, like, go ahead. But now I want you to.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Put a podcast in and walk.

[Adam Schaefer]

You still want to fill that space, right?

[Sal DeStefano]

Or, or strength trained and walk for the same, the same amount of time that you would go run for. Replace that with strength training and walking and that'll serve you pretty well. So if you're someone who was like an everyday person, like a great program for you, be like, Matt's 15 with a long walk would do you really well and still give you that, like, I'm moving, still getting a lot of stabs. I'm not like completely like moving away from the, you know, that's kind of.

[Adam Schaefer]

I think, yeah, a lot of it's a discipline of it. And I think that, yeah, people, people who've done something like that for that long, like it's ritual at that point. And so it's like losing your ritual and like you think it's a healthy practice, like, so you can, you could transfer that, I think, and. And do that in a way where you give your body a little more rest.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. I had a client like this. Now, I was their trainer, so I was able to coach them through the process. But I had a client like this who kind of hit a wall and we cut it down. I don't remember exactly what it was. It was something like 25 miles a week, and I brought it down to two a week. Like, really, really cut it down. Immediately did a couple days a week of strength training and immediately, immediately saw strength gains. It's like her body was waiting, hanging on for it, and she just started building muscle and feeling amazing. But I was there to coach her through the process.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's.

[Sal DeStefano]

So what you're saying is such an important note too, because here's where that won't happen to you, is if you're doing 20 miles and you cut back to 15 miles and you introduce strength training and you're hoping you're gonna see a bunch of games, 15 miles is still a lot.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

So in order to get the results, to have that kind of profound results that you're talking about, you really gotta. You gotta really make a major shift from being an endurance athlete to a strength athlete and go all in on the strength athlete. And then hopefully those, those strength gains and that muscle you build is motivation enough to be like, oh, I can let go of this addiction to running. But if you ease off of it, I mean, it's a lot like addicted to anything else. Right. It's gonna. It's gonna take a lot longer for you to see the results.

[Justin Andrews]

Or if you cut down all your running and then decide to fill it with hours of lifting and you're just doing tons and tons of weight and over trading there. It's a different. It's totally different approach.

[Listener Question Host]

Next question is from Laura Hocking. How can we train our central nervous system to keep up a little better? And is there anything that can be done immediately after realizing we went a little too hard?

[Justin Andrews]

So in parentheses there, it says, feel like napping mid lift lately. So you're just overdoing it.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

The first thing you would reduce with your workouts is the intensity. The second thing is the volume. And the last thing is the frequency of your workout. So intensity is how hard. Volume is the total amount of, let's say, sets that you're doing. And then the frequency is how often you're lifting weights. But you got to cut it down, Cut it down immediately and make it a drastic cut initially because you could Always work up a little bit, but cut everything way down.

[Sal DeStefano]

Cut in half at least.

[Justin Andrews]

Yes. And see how you feel. And is there anything you could do immediately after realizing you went a little too far? Yeah. Or too hard? You take a day off or a couple days off. Like nothing would replace rest. There's really no trick, no hack.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

No biohack, no massage or therapy or anything that replaces just good old fashioned.

[Adam Schaefer]

Time length that you need. Just separation. You need to heal.

[Sal DeStefano]

The other thing I'm investigating is sleep and caffeine usage.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Because this tends to happen too with a chronic under sleeper and caffeine user. So if you're somebody who chronically under sleeps and you replace that with a bunch of energy drinks and pre workouts to try and make up for it, I tend to notice an adverse effect when I reach a certain point of caffeine. Like it crashes. Yeah, I get the crashes. Like I'll go to my workout. I'm like yawning or I'm just like, oh my God. It's like, oh, my caffeine's way too high. My sleep's not right.

[Justin Andrews]

What's that? We have a guide, right, Doug? It's your recovery.

[Adam Schaefer]

Recovery, rescue.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

And that'[e-mail] mindpumpfree.com check it out. That's a week of like accelerated recovery. So it's a free guide and it breaks down what you do every single day for an entire week to get your body back on track.

[Listener Question Host]

Next question is from Functional Health. Jen, how do I know if I'm actually getting stronger or if it's just my central nervous system adapting, Especially if I've been training for 10 or more years.

[Justin Andrews]

It's the same thing. Yeah, yeah, maybe, maybe. The question is if I'm actually building muscle or if it's just my sense. So when, when you're moving away, let's say, yes, you have these muscles that are contracting that are like the, the, the machine that is operating, but you also have a central nervous system that fires those muscles and can fire them with more force and fire them in better coordination and synchronicity. And so they're both involved in building strength.

Bigger muscles contract harder, but the central nervous system plays such a massive role. In fact, I'd say the central nervous system probably pays a larger role in strength. But they're both. You're stronger, you're stronger. That's just the fact it doesn't really matter. If you're asking about muscle the strongest correlate to muscle Growth is strength. So if you're getting stronger, even if it is just your central nervous system adapting, if you keep moving down that path, that almost always results in, in larger muscle fibers.

[Sal DeStefano]

And if you're actually real testing and noticing that you're not building any muscle yet you still yourself. That's a nutrition thing.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

So there is a possibility and we see this where you do see somebody's central nervous system adapting, getting better at a movement because they're practicing it more frequently. And so they see the benefits of the strength growing up. But then for some reason when they go test their body fat test, they're, they're not building any more muscle. And then that's a direct connection to not enough nutrition. You're just not feeding the body enough to grow and build muscle. And so that's just a calorie deficit and you need to, you need to increase calories a little bit.

[Listener Question Host]

Next question is from FitLife with Jen. How do you feel about posture correctors? My son has really bad forward shoulders and he has been doing some exercises to correct it, but he brought up this posture corrector and I'm curious on your guys thoughts.

[Justin Andrews]

Maybe you could google.

[Sal DeStefano]

I already know posture corrector.

[Justin Andrews]

I think, I think it's like hold your shoulders back.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, it's terrible what he's doing with the exercises. Excellent.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's perfect.

[Sal DeStefano]

You do not want a tool that he wears that puts him in correct posture because he will then become dependent on that. So same argument that we make for why? Well, weight belts for the average user is not ideal because then you become dependent on the tool for the good posture for you and able to do that. So you want him to train the muscles to, to get to hold himself in a posture. If he relies on a strap that pulls his, his shoulder blades back in his posture upright, then he becomes dependent on that and he weakens those muscles that are responsible for doing.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. So in other words, so you, you wear one of these. Yeah, so it's what we thought. Right. So if you wear one of these, it holds you into what appear to be a good posture. But the very muscles that, that you need to strengthen are now being relied upon even less.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yes.

[Justin Andrews]

Because you're now relying on this, these.

[Sal DeStefano]

Straps will exacerbate the problem.

[Justin Andrews]

It'll actually accelerate the weakening of the muscles that have an issue. You'll actually make his posture far worse to the point where it'll become painful for him to not wear the posture correctors and he'll develop really bad issues. So if this is like a fast track to atrophy, right to muscle weakness. So posture corrector is never, almost never.

[Sal DeStefano]

The move would be for him to do more the chest, more of the corrective exercises.

[Justin Andrews]

Yes.

[Sal DeStefano]

So if it sounds like he's already doing some of the. So this is, this is where you hear us talk about the importance of frequency in, in priming and mobility moves that we talk about over just like intense workouts. So if what he's doing right now is he goes to the gym say three or five times a week and that he spends 10 minutes or 15 minutes each time he goes to the gym doing these corrective posture movements. But then all day long he sits on his phone or at a desk or a computer, then it's going to be hard to make a lot of progress with only doing it that, that infrequent. He needs to be doing it every day, all day long, every time he can think about it. So like if he's. So if he's doing moves like say prone Cobra or something like that, he would benefit from doing that five times a day for two minutes.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

More than he would, you know, three or four days a week for a 15 minute session. So the frequency of those posture correct he moves is what will move him in the direction of better posture faster. Using a, a tool will actually exacerbate.

[Justin Andrews]

But again, wearing something that is replacing the muscles that you, the very muscles you want to strengthen will only accelerate the weakening that's happening in those muscles.

[Adam Schaefer]

Basically a cast.

[Justin Andrews]

They should call them posture destroyers is what they should call these. They're. They're absolutely terrible.

[Adam Schaefer]

Those don't sell as well.

[Justin Andrews]

No. Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. We'll see you. It's at Mind Pump Media.

[Mind Pump Intro Announcer]

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