2763: Eat as Much as You Want, but Don't Get Fat (JUST follow these 2 rules)

Summary

Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth

Episode 2763 – Eat as Much as You Want, but Don't Get Fat (JUST follow these 2 rules)

Hosts: Sal Di Stefano, Adam Schafer, Justin Andrews, Doug Egge
Date: January 2, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into a bold, simple philosophy: you can eat as much as you want and still avoid getting fat—if you follow just two foundational rules. Using their trademark blend of tough love, humor, and real-world fitness experience, Sal, Adam, Justin, and Doug break down what actually works to sustain leanness, muscle gain, and health, while dispelling fitness myths that overly complicate nutrition.

Along the way, they share practical strategies for protein prioritization, the need to avoid processed foods, and the behavioral science of food cravings, satiety, and palate change. The discussion also touches on current fitness culture, the realities of long-term motivation, and how whole-food eating can reshape your relationship with food. Listener questions at the end offer specifics on BJJ training, joint instability, PR-chasing, and maintaining motivation.

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Main Theme: The Two Rules to Eat as Much as You Want without Getting Fat

Sal kicks off with the promise:

“There’s just two rules that if you follow them, you can eat as much as you want and you won’t get fat. …Those of you that need to gain will gain doing this. And those of you that need to get leaner will get leaner doing this.”
[04:13]

The Two Rules

1. Hit your target body weight in grams of protein per day—eat this first.
2. Eat just whole foods, no processed foods.

Why These Rules Work – Key Points

• Satiety and Natural Regulation:
  Highly processed foods hijack your hunger signals and make overeating inevitable. Whole foods and high protein bring your natural appetite regulation back online.
  Sal: “If you get rid of that and you avoid processed foods, it’s only whole natural foods and you eat protein... for the vast majority of people…what’ll happen over time [is] your hunger will go up when it wants to build. When body fat percentage gets above the numbers...you’ll eat a little less. This is just naturally what happens.”
  [08:46]

• Body Fat Set Points:
  For most, following these rules lands men at ~15% body fat, women at ~20-21% (±3%), which is fit and sustainable.

• No “Dieting” Stress:
  Simple to state but not easy to execute. No need for calorie counting/macro tracking if adherence is strong. The stress and restriction of most diets fall away.

• Environment Drives Overeating:
  Modern junk foods are engineered for hyper-palatability akin to addictive substances. Sal/Adam/Justin liken the effect to pornography vs. normal sexual experience in terms of how your brain adjusts and expects stimulation.

  “It shapes your brain because of the way it hits the brain with dopamine and all these chemical signals. Your brain starts to morph and model itself this way so that when you go eat normal food, it just doesn’t do anything for you.” – Sal [22:28]

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Deep Dive: Key Insights and Analogies

Why Processed Food Is the Enemy

• Lay’s Potato Chips Example: It takes 4–5 potatoes to make one family-size bag. Challenge: Try eating 5 boiled potatoes versus a bag of chips in one sitting!

  Sal: “Eat all of them right now. I’ll give you 30 minutes—you’re gonna gag after two… Now if I put a family-sized bag of chips in front of you and I said, here, eat this in 30 minutes, no problem.”
  [18:38]

• Sugar Analogy:
  Sal: “That analogy works so well too with sugar. … If you try to eat that in nature the way it is, you wouldn’t even be able to consume that much.”
  [19:19]

Palate and Brain Changes with Whole Foods

• Withdrawal Period:
  Moving from processed foods to whole foods comes with about a 30-day withdrawal period.

  “The first week is the hardest because you literally go through withdrawal… After 30 days it gets significantly easier. If you can maintain it for 90 days, it's easy in comparison.” – Sal [25:44]

• Results for Both Beginners and Veterans:
  Adam: “This is not just for beginners. … I play this game still.” [13:56]

High Protein Magic—Why 1g per Target Pound Works

• Muscle Gain/Fat Loss Evidence:

  “The data shows very clearly…when you have two identical calorie diets…if it’s a muscle-building diet, the higher protein group builds a lot more muscle and gains a lot less body fat. If it’s a cutting diet…the high protein group loses more body fat and preserves more muscle.” – Sal [15:14]

Flexible Adherence: Real Life Happens

• Allow for Occasional Treats/Deviations:
  Adam: “I’m not going to tell you, you can’t have that glass of wine every once in a while. …So long as I get my strength training in. I hit my protein intake through whole foods first. …The fact that they’re still strength training, the couple extra hundred additional calories … ends up getting partitioned over to building muscle anyway.” [13:04]

• Your Taste Will Change:
  Adam and Justin share how, after months on whole foods, fruits and veggies taste amazing and are naturally craved, while fast food loses appeal. [23:24-24:40]

Implementing the Two-Rules Approach

• Behavioral Strategies:

  • Eat protein source first before any “extras.”
  • Save deviations for social events (date nights, parties), not everyday.

• Protein Intake Example:
  Sal: “I’ve consistently made a target to hit 220 grams of protein at least every single day… I’ve noticed incredible gains in the gym. But…if I just add weight, I start to hurt, so now I know…if I feel stronger, I just make the weight feel heavier.”
  [68:51]

Mindset & Motivation

• Don’t Depend on Motivation:
  Adam: “You’re not going to be motivated all the time.” [69:57]
  Instead, create habits and give yourself permission to do “something” even on low-energy days, like walking or one lift.

• Enjoy What You Do:
  Sal: “The most important thing is that you’re consistent so long as you’re not hurting yourself and doing something that’s inappropriate. …if there’s something you like and it’s fun and it’s not the perfect routine, but you enjoy doing it, that’s probably going to be better for you.” [71:29]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Eat as much as you want—don’t get fat.” – Adam [04:45]
• “If you hit the protein and avoid heavily processed foods and strength train, your body will…guide you and you’ll build and lose and build and lose…ending up in this really nice place.” – Sal [05:00]
• “If you just did this, you wouldn’t have to do anything else.” – Sal [15:15]
• On withdrawal: “The first week is the hardest because you literally go through withdrawal.” – Sal [25:44]
• On taste bud changes: “Regular whole foods were very bland for me in all food categories. And it wasn’t until I eliminated [processed food] for a long enough period…that all of a sudden fruit and vegetables and just meat…became [desirable].” – Adam [23:24]
• “I play this game still.” – Adam [13:56] (on protein-first, whole-food eating, not just for beginners)
• “Stop thinking you’re going to be motivated all the time, because that’s setting yourself up for failure.” – Adam [70:07]
• “If there’s something you like and it’s fun…it’s probably going to be better for you. …that’s the key to longevity with this.” – Sal [71:29]

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Timestamps for Major Segments

| Time | Topic/Segment | |-----------|--------------------------------------------------------------| | 04:13 | The two rules for effortless eating & leanness are revealed | | 08:03 | Why these two rules work—modern food vs. natural satiety | | 10:39 | Returning to basic, “crunchy-hippie” eating wisdom | | 13:01 | Giving yourself flexibility—protein/whole food first, treats as bonus | | 15:14 | Why high protein is transformative for body composition | | 18:38 | Lay’s Potato Chips analogy vs. boiled potatoes | | 22:28 | Palate and brain effects of processed food | | 25:44 | 30-day “withdrawal” from hyperpalatable food | | 69:57 | Motivation vs. discipline, building sustainable habits | | 71:29 | Making fitness genuinely enjoyable for lifelong adherence |

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Listener Q&A Highlights

1. Gaining Muscle While Starting BJJ at 41 [59:12]

• Sal and Adam recommend if doing BJJ 2–3x/week, cap strength training at 1x/week (or MAPS 15 program); mobility work key; avoid ego-driven intensity as a beginner—minimize risk.

2. Exercises for Joint Instability [62:16]

• Instability is a result of weakness. Use strength training movements (lunges, squats, Z-press), isometrics, and controlled form to build stability.

3. When Did PRs Stop Mattering? [64:19]

• Hosts quantify their own diminishing returns: Deadlift ~500lb, Squat ~315–350, Bench ~275–300. Past those, injuries increased, physique barely improved. Chasing “feel” and technique became more important than chasing numbers.

4. Staying Focused & Motivated [69:54]

• Relinquish reliance on motivation; create habits with built-in flexibility. Consistency and enjoyment are more important than perfection.

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Summary Takeaways

• Focus on whole foods and prioritize protein—the rest falls into place for most people.
• Allow for treats but don’t make them daily.
• You’ll need to give your taste buds and brain time to adjust—expect a rough first month.
• If you want results—muscle gain, fat loss, easy leanness—stop chasing hacks and shrink your “rules” to these two.
• Long-term success in health and fitness is driven by habits, flexibility, and joy—not willpower or perfection.

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For more actionable advice and to join a like-minded community, find the hosts individually or @mindpumpmedia on Instagram. For structured training, check out their MAPS programs.

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Useful Resources Referenced:

• MAPS 15 Symmetry Program
• Whole30
• Organifi Creatine Cherry Chews
• Our Place Cookware

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For new listeners:
This episode offers a complete toolkit for resetting your nutrition and exercise habits to work with—and not against—your body, starting today.

Transcript

[Narrator/Advertiser]

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[Doug]

If you want to pump your body.

[Sal DeStefano]

And expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind Pump Mind Pump with Your hosts.

[Adam Schafer]

Sal DeStefano, Adam Adam Schafer and Justin.

[Sal DeStefano]

Andrews, you just found the most downloaded fitness, health and entertainment podcast in history. This is Mind Pump. In today's episode we answered listeners questions, four of them at the end of the episode. But we started with an intro today. It was 55 minutes long. In the intro we talk about muscle gain, fat loss, fitness health, longevity. Always a good time. By the way, if you want to write in a question that we may pick for a future episode, go to Instagram indpump Media now this episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Our Place. This is amazing cookware that is forever chemical free. Okay, a lot of cookware has forever chemicals. Stuff that's not good for you our place is forever chemical free and it's super easy to clean and you can get a hundred day trial with free shipping and returns. In other words, try it out for 100 days. Return it. If you don't like it, just go to fromourplace.com, use the code mindpuppetcheckout. That'll give you 10% off. This episode is also brought to you by Organifi. Today we talked about their creatine cherry chews. So Organifi makes great supplements including their cherry chews. These are creatine candies essentially, except they're not candy, they're full of creatine. They're good for you. They also have tart cherry in them, so it's anti inflammatory. This will help you reap the benefits of creatine. And I know you know all about creatine because everybody does. It's awesome stuff. Anyway, go check them out, get a discount. Go to organifi.com mindpump that's O R G A N I F I.com mindpump. Use the code mind pump. Get 20% off. We also have a sale going on with a new program. Okay, maps 15 symmetry. This is maps symmetry, but the 15 minute a day version. So just 15 minutes a day and you're following a strength training program designed to balance your body out to give you the symmetry that looks so darn good. And again, it's half off. So if you're interested, you go to 15 symmetry.com use the code December50 for the 50% off discount. All right, real quick.

[Justin Andrews]

If you love us like we love you, why not show it by rocking one of our shirts, hats, mugs or training gear [e-mail] I'm talking right now. Hit pause, hit head on over to my pumpstore.com. that's it. Enjoy the rest of the show.

[Sal DeStefano]

There's just two rules that if you follow them, you can eat as much as you want and you won't get fat. In fact, here's the magic to it. Those of you that need to gain will gain doing this. And those of you that need to get leaner will get leaner doing this. Both of you eat as much as you want. I'm serious. We're going to talk about challenge, the two rules that'll make this happen for the vast majority of you. Let's get to it.

[Adam Schafer]

I feel like my hook was better. I don't remember what I told you, but it was better.

[Sal DeStefano]

I forgot.

[Adam Schafer]

That's why I was like, I know I told you, as much as you.

[Justin Andrews]

Want, don't get fat.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, I said something like that.

[Sal DeStefano]

I think that's what it was. Eat as much as you want, don't get fat. I think that's what you said.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, that's what it was.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yes.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

So you know what's. Okay, so here's, here's, here's where this is coming from, right? We'll talk to callers all the time, right? So if you listen to the podcast, you know, about four people will call in, and typically it's at the end of the episode, and we'll coach them and help them and, and there's a range of people that we'll talk to. But just for argument's sake, people who want to lose weight, people who want to gain weight, we'll just put them on those two categories and we often give them different but similar advice. And oftentimes the advice is actually remarkably similar, because eating this way, your body will start to tell you what it needs. In other words, if you're somebody that needs to gain, you need to gain muscle, maybe even gain body fat. And it's true, some people do need to gain body fat. Like if you're a woman and you've been just tracking your food for too long and you're walking around at 14% body fat, can't figure out why you're not getting stronger or why you maybe have symptoms of hormone imbalance, you need to gain a little body fat, right? And then, of course, people who need to lose body fat, if these people follow these same two rules and ate until they were satisfied, when they were hungry, they ate. And of course, in combination with strength training, what's cool about this is the body will. Your body will guide you and you'll build and lose and build and lose, and over time end up in this really nice place. And what I like about this is their basic simple black and white rules. Follow the. By the way, it doesn't mean they're easy, they're simple, but they're still.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, I think that's the point to be made here. I just recently had a conversation with a buddy of mine who's not really, like, into lifting weights and stuff like that, but he was, he was wanting advice, right? We're hitting golf balls and you could tell he was like, you know, I don't want to bug you because I know this is what you do all the time. I was like, no, go ahead. What is like. And so he starts asking me, like, about, you know, I've Been working out in the garage and, and you could tell, you know, he thought I was going to come out with this, like, elaborate plan and, you know, what to do with his diet and his training and all this like that. And I, it basically gave him those, those two basic rules. And, and then I said, just, just consistently do that. Target the protein. Right? And, and, and do that consistently. And then if you're just. Even though I heard what he was doing in the, in his garage, and I'm like, there's so many things I could have him do better. It didn't matter because I'm like, we can, we can tweak that later.

[Sal DeStefano]

He's.

[Adam Schafer]

He is sending a signal to get stronger and build muscle, even if it's not the best one or there's a better way to do it.

[Sal DeStefano]

Glad he said that.

[Adam Schafer]

I'm like, listen, if you just do these things, that will move the needle the most. And, and why I, why I've distilled it down to those things is I realize that to your point, they're very simple as far as the advice, but very difficult to do consistently.

[Sal DeStefano]

They're still hard.

[Adam Schafer]

And so. And that will move the needle the most. And so instead of like, telling the client or telling my friend, like, well, you could change this, do this exercise. You could also do this. And then on these days, without and like, giving him, like, 10 different things to go do that, he's most likely going to fail at a majority of them and stuff, it's like, let's give him the two biggest things that he can. He could focus on. Show him what change can happen just by keeping consistent with that. And then I can build on that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Let me, let me give the two rules real quick, and we'll break them down, but I'll give the two rules real quick since people are probably like, what are you talking about? So rule one, hit your target body weight in grams of protein. Prioritize that, eat it first, and we'll break down why that helps. And then two, eat just whole foods. Yeah, just those two things. Now, here's what happens when you do that. Okay, so there's this widely believed myth that if you're around food, as humans, you're just going to be overweight. If there's food, we're just going to eat it. We're like eating machines. This is not. This is actually not true. No, it's only true in modern societies because we've engineered food so expertly with.

[Justin Andrews]

Crazy science, overrides a lot of our natural signals.

[Sal DeStefano]

It makes you overeat, that's what it's designed to do. It's designed to make you, it actually has drug like effects on the brain. This is not a natural effect. So it's like hypernovelty and hyper palatability is what ends up happening. But if you get rid of that and you avoid processed foods, it's only whole natural foods and you eat protein, here's what will happen to the vast. Now this is not everybody, but most people, 80 to 85% of everybody, this is what would happen to you. For men, you're gonna fall right around somewhere in the vicinity. So give or take 3% of about 15% body fat. So what'll happen over time. So for men, 15% body fat, of course you got to be strength training along with this and be relatively active throughout the day with steps. But 15% is a fit, healthy body fat percentage. Now you're not shredded, you don't have a six pack, but your midsection's flat, you're fit. This is considered an athletic body fat percentage. For women it's going to be around 20, 21%, give or take 3% or so up or down because there's where you get the genetics. Some people a little higher, some people are a little lower. But when you hit the protein and avoid heavily processed foods and strength train your body will, your hunger will go up when it wants to build. When body fat percentage gets above the numbers that I kind of gave you, again, give or take, depending on a person's genetics, you'll eat a little less. This is just naturally what happens. And so you go through these natural periods of building, cutting, building, cutting by kind of following these rules and, and you don't get these drastic quick changes overnight, but they're sustainable and they result in this really fit, healthy body. That's not stressful, right? It's not as stressful. Those two rules, although challenging, are not so stressful. Like macro counting and measuring everything. And I can't eat outside of this thing or that thing. If you just follow those two things, it's pretty miraculous.

[Justin Andrews]

It's always funny to me because it's like we come back full circle to more of these hippie crunchy ideas that are just very basic and brings you back into that natural harmony where if you think about it like most of these foods that are like hyper concentrated, they're trying to get you to overly taste something, to experience more of the crunch or something more to really stimulate more of that appetite, to kind of get your ghrelin to get know roaring and to get a lot of these other like natural, you know, hormone signals, you know, to, to basically like force that to a degree where it's like, I'm just going to keep, you know, feeding my face. Whereas these, these whole foods, they're tapered off. They have, they have fiber, they have.

[Adam Schafer]

Satiates you.

[Justin Andrews]

It satiates you. It. It replace. Nourishes you. Same thing with artificial light. It's like, it's crazy to me. It's like all this artificial light is just hijacking our, our natural rhythms where we wake up with the sun, we go to bed with the sun, and it's like, it's just a natural regulator. And like we're telling people all these, like, all this advice with all these devices and all these different. It's such like, if you just like remove all this stuff and get back to like, really basic things, you'd be doing really well.

[Adam Schafer]

I, I actually think the number that Sal said is really conservative.

[Sal DeStefano]

It is.

[Adam Schafer]

I've seen people get way better shape just from that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Like, if I would. I would argue that the next layer or thing that I tell people with those tips that I like, because one of the, One of the. If you think about the general pop. One of the pushbacks that the average person gives when you give advice that they're like, well, every day. I mean, what about if. A glass of wine or what if I. And they. And they're. They're like, do I have to eat like this forever? I can't have these. It's like, okay, well, here's the thing. I'm not going to tell you. You can't have that glass of wine every once in a while. I'm not going to tell you can't go out to dinner with your wife and enjoy whatever. All I'm going to say is do that first. And then.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right.

[Adam Schafer]

And that tends to actually land where you're saying percentage wise. I think the people that actually take this and go, okay, I'm going to only eat whole foods and hit protein first.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yep. You're going to get.

[Adam Schafer]

You're going to get ripped.

[Justin Andrews]

Fantastic results.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. And you're strength training. You're going to get incredible shape.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right.

[Adam Schafer]

I think the people that at least have the rule of, hey, I. I can still have that treat, that dessert, that occasional glass of wine, that thing. So long as I get my strength training in. I do. I hit my protein intake through whole foods first and then allow my. Because what I have found is giving them that permission takes that pressure of I can't off. Right. That psychological game that you're kind of playing allows them to have a little bit of. Of flexibility. The fact that they're still strength training the couple extra hundred additional calories, a lot of those end up getting partitioned over to building muscle anyways. And so it ends up working out to that percentage. You're talking about the people that actually take that advice, like, and really stick to it, I think get really.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

And those food groups, like, end up out competing. Your palate changes in that direction, like, over time. So it's a totally valid way to do it.

[Adam Schafer]

It's a game. Just so you know, this is not a. Because again, this is. I always get annoyed by the comments around like, that were for only beginners like, that. I play this game still. I play this game still. I still. I just did this the other night. Like, literally, it's. It's late night. I know.

[Sal DeStefano]

I'm a little. I'm.

[Adam Schafer]

I'm a little under my protein. I already had dinner and we're. Katrina, I relax and we're watching Christmas movies, and I'm like, oh, man, I want. I'm gonna make some popcorn up right now. And I'm like, you know what? I'm. I haven't hit my protein yet. And I know. I'm like, okay. So I went down and I had two things of cottage cheese and pineapple. And guess what? After that, I didn't feel like the popcorn anymore, so. And I didn't tell myself, I can't have the popcorn. It's like, you know what? I'm still under my protein. So if I'm. If I'm still first, if I still have an appetite to where I'm craving popcorn, at least go down. Go have the cottage cheese first. And then, well, what do you know.

[Sal DeStefano]

If you saved those times that you're going to eat out and maybe not eat the whole natural foods? Or what if you saved it for, like, vacations, dinner out with your wife, holidays. You're fine. You're totally fine. The problem is that becomes the norm, right? Where every day that becomes a thing. And that's where it's an issue. But if you follow this rule and then, hey, you know, hey, honey, let's go out Friday night. That's our date night. We're going to go out and have dinner. Okay. Don't stick to the rules. That one, you know, that night or you're going to take out your kid.

[Justin Andrews]

For their birthday is important.

[Sal DeStefano]

Or It's Christmas dinner or whatever, you know, it's not that big of a deal. Doesn't make. But what I'm saying here works so well, everybody. It is literally miraculous. If you just did this, you wouldn't have to do anything else. And just so people understand, like, I'll use. Yes, there are genetic differences, but I'll use myself and Justin as an example because both of us are different genetically when it comes to some of this. But when him and I eat this way, the difference in body fat percentage between him is about. Him and I is about 4%. That's it. We're both fit, both lean, both athletic. My body holds a little leaner, his head's a little heavier. Neither one of us is outside of the range of healthy. And it's not stressful. And we're just eating the way that we're talking about. Now, why does high protein work so well? Well, the data shows very clearly when you have two identical calorie diets. One of them is high protein, one gram of protein per pound of target body weight. So that's very high protein. The other one is in the lower range, half or less. Okay. Even though they're both identical with calories, if it's a muscle building diet, the higher protein group builds a lot more muscle and gains a lot less body fat. If it's a cutting diet, calorie deficit, the high protein group loses more body fat and preserves more muscle. That's the difference that that protein makes. Now, why the avoidance of heavily processed foods? It's. You have to track if you eat heavily processed foods, if that makes it into your diet on a daily basis. You have to count calories and track. You can't listen to your body. It's impossible because they make you want to eat, they make you overeat. And those food scientists are way smarter than you, listening to your body and.

[Justin Andrews]

Saying, well, it's naive to think that they're not just sitting there obsessing on how to figure out how to get you to buy more product.

[Sal DeStefano]

Look, Doug, look up how the game. Look up a large bag of lay's potato chips. Confirm how many large potato or how many potatoes or in that bag and give me that number. It is four to five or something like that. But it's a great example of, you know, kind of what we're talking about. But, you know, I stumbled upon this as a trainer way later. Like, way later. You guys. This took me a decade.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Before I really figured this out. And I overheard one of my other Trainers in my studio communicating this and the way she explained it. And then I thought about it myself and I said, this is interesting. So I would told my clients, hey, eat as much as you want, just. And I even do the high protein part. I was just like, just avoid ultra processed foods. And people started losing weight.

[Justin Andrews]

It just reminds me when we were talking to Paul Check when I first met him. And. And you talk about a guy who has like the ultimate knowledge and wisdom from so many different directions and him just like breaking it down. Like it. The more you understand and your understanding gets deeper, the, the more simplistic you really get to. It's like we all get back to these like very simplistic methods that have worked and are the most effective.

[Sal DeStefano]

Totally. What does it say there, Doug?

[Doug]

So again, it just depends on the.

[Sal DeStefano]

Size of the family size bag is what I'm looking for.

[Doug]

Okay, family size. Why didn't put that in about four. Four medium potatoes. Okay, so one pound of chips needs four pounds of potatoes.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay. Okay, so a family size bag. Is that what that is?

[Doug]

Well, I'll have to see how big the family.

[Sal DeStefano]

I think a family size about five. But just let me just paint the picture, everybody. You're listening to this right now. And I took five potatoes and I boiled them and I put them in front of you. Plain boiled.

[Adam Schafer]

Good luck eating.

[Sal DeStefano]

Right in front of you.

[Adam Schafer]

Good luck eating too.

[Sal DeStefano]

Eat all of them right now. I'll give you 30 minutes. You're gonna gag after two with nothing on it. Just potatoes.

[Adam Schafer]

Even salted and buttered up. You'd still have a challenge.

[Sal DeStefano]

You'd still have a tough time.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Now if I put a family sized bag of potatoes, potato chips in front of you and I said, here, eat this in 30 minutes, no problem. I could do that after being full. You could have me eat a bunch of food and then eat that whole bag of chips. And by the way, people think calories are what induce satiety. Calories play somewhat of a role, but they're not the main role because the bag of chips has higher calories than the four or five plain potatoes. They're fried in oil, and yet you want to eat more of them in just total volume and everything.

[Adam Schafer]

I mean, that analogy works so well too with sugar. That's why I always bring up the sugar cane thing, where it's just like, look at a little bag of Sour Patch Kids. How many calories and how many grams of sugar that is? If you try to eat that in nature the way it is, it would you wouldn't be able to, you wouldn't even be able to consume that much. Not to mention the amount of extra calories. Yeah, the extra calories.

[Sal DeStefano]

No, if you're, if you're strength training consistently two or three days a week, if you're hitting, you know, six to 8,000 steps a day, maybe 8,000 to 10,000 steps a day, just moving, you're not going to be overweight eating steak, rice, fruit, vegetables, potatoes, like chicken, fish. It's just not going to happen. No, it's just not going to happen. Now, I know there's those outliers out there that can make anything happen, but the vast majority of people, if that's all you did, you guys. And here's the challenge. There was a me. This message in the health and fitness space got twisted a while ago. It used to be in health and fitness, you avoided, quote, unquote, unhealthy foods. Like, well, why are you eating that? That's unhealthy. That's unhealthy. Eat that. It's healthy. It's healthy. And then the message came out that, well, and I learned this message, the foods aren't making you overweight. It's that you're eating too many calories. So what it did is it made all food go into one category and it's just you're overeating. And I remember learning this in my first certification. I remember my instructor, I'm a young kid getting certified for the first time, and they said it's just calories you could eat. Can you gain body fat on a healthy diet? Yes, if you eat too much. I remember thinking, like, I thought it was mind blowing. Oh, it's just like calories. But then as you train people, you realize that's actually quite rare, difficult. If there are foods that are healthy and unhealthy, theoretically it's possible.

[Justin Andrews]

But I have never seen if you.

[Adam Schafer]

If you've been listening to us long enough, you know, we came out early on on if it fits your macros for that reason, really popular. When we first started the podcast, there was pages dedicated to people that were on social media posting about, you know, all the junk food they were eating, but they were still lean with abs and everything like that. And it's just all of us had already at that time, obviously been trainers for a long time and thought this is a terrible message to send to the general pop because you introduce all these foods and Sal always like to say, you're playing the game on hard mode. Why would you do that to Yourself. It's a way better strategy to say, hey, I can eat whatever I want when I'm hungry, so long as I eat from these food groups, which whole foods? There is a huge group of food. You're not saying you can't have fruit, you can't have vegetables, can't have meat, can't have high fat meat. You can have all kinds of things in that. Just eat whole foods and, and you'll be okay, especially if you target protein first. And it's just a much better strategy. Not to mention too. I mean, I remember first time in my life, like how much it changed my palate eating this way. I had been processed food, fast food eater at this point. It was a majority of my life and grew up on all that stuff and didn't realize how much it had changed the way I felt about fruit and vegetables. Like just. It didn't. I didn't think they tasted that good until I went eating nothing but whole foods and then those things. So it changed how desirable and how good they were.

[Sal DeStefano]

So the best example that I. One example, not the best, but one example I could give is like the comparison of pornography to, you know, regular, normal sexual intercourse with, let's say, your spouse. Okay, pornography. You see young men having things like erectile dysfunction because of the way pornography is, the novelty, the stimulus, the way that it shapes and changes the brain. Suddenly regular person in front of you now, it can't. These guys can't get an erection with processed foods. It shapes your brain because of the weights. It hits the brain with dopamine and all these chemical signals. Your brain starts to morph and model itself this way so that when you go eat normal food, it just doesn't do anything for you. In fact, it tastes bland and boring. And I need that excitement from that heavily engineered food. But once you move away from it, your brain will mold itself in the other way as well.

[Adam Schafer]

You can get it back. And I experienced that firsthand. And it has made. Katrina and I were so funny. We were just. Yeah, this was yesterday. We were driving, taking like a back road and then at the end corner of it was a. A Carl's Jr. In our town. And I'm like, you know, it's so crazy to think, like, I've never been to. We live in the, the town we live in now. We've lived here now for a little over four years where we're at. And I'm like, I've never been to any of the fast food restaurants. None of them. I've never been to the McDonald's. Never. Been to Taco Bell, Never. And I. And yet at one point in my life, when her and I first met, that was still. That was at the tail end of me getting rid of like that in my life. It was just a part. Even as a trainer, I still found a way to still be fit and active and do all things but have those types of foods in there. And a lot of that had to do with. I grew up on processed foods. I craved that. I wanted that. And regular whole foods were very bland for me in all cat on all food categories. And it wasn't until I eliminated that for a long enough period of time in my life did all of a sudden fruit and vegetables and just meat and just plain. Those things all of a sudden became. And now it's like it's not even a thought. It's not like I have to think about not. Body doesn't want that. My body wants those whole foods.

[Sal DeStefano]

In fact, eating. Eating some of those ultra processed foods right now would feel overwhelming.

[Adam Schafer]

Terrible.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. You have to condition yourself.

[Adam Schafer]

I remember after it was. It was gone for a while, us trying, like, you know, we should. Let's see how. And just feeling awful from it and going like, wow. I had conditioned myself for so long that that tasted normal. That was. And, and so for the audience that's listening, that you absolutely can change that. You can change that through consistently eating the whole foods. And then all of a sudden, it makes all those things so much more desirable. And when they're so much more desirable, it's that much.

[Doug]

It's.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, that's why it's. That's why that decision last night to pass up like something, let's say like popcorn and butter and something salty like that, and go have cottage cheese and pineapple. Wasn't that hard of a decision? Ask me to do that when I'm 25, when I'm eating junk food, can all these things, it's like, chill. Yeah, it doesn't. It's like I couldn't even imagine myself doing that. So it is an exciting thing for somebody. If you're listening and you, you're like, man, I just don't like any of those foods. You can change that.

[Sal DeStefano]

So just so people know, when. When I would work with people, there is a withdrawal period. So I want to set people up. So if you're listening to this and you're like, okay, I'm going to make this. I want to make this step. The first 30 days is difficult. The first week is the Hardest because you literally go through withdrawal. So as your brain starts to remodel itself, it's not getting the same stimulation because you're not eating the fast food, processed food, you know, boxed type stuff. There is a withdrawal period. So it will feel kind of difficult. After 30 days it gets significantly easier. If you can maintain it for 90 days, it's easy in comparison. So I just want to encourage people, if you're going to try this, get through that first 30 days and you're going to see it just gets easier and easier and easier.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, I think, I think 30 is the. Was.

[Sal DeStefano]

This is what whole, whole 30 model themselves after.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah. I think 30s is, is really the, is the mark.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's like four weeks.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, I think after that it's like it just gets easier and easier and easier. And then there and then I, I think 60 to 90 days is a good, a good guess when I'd say when I was like craving the healthy food.

[Sal DeStefano]

Totally. All right, I gotta tell you, I gotta share something so disturbing with you guys. Have you heard of these, this, these new, these people on social media, they're calling themselves doll moms.

[Adam Schafer]

Doll moms.

[Sal DeStefano]

Doll moms.

[Justin Andrews]

Is this worse than like the pageant moms?

[Adam Schafer]

Dude, Sounds like it's the same thing.

[Sal DeStefano]

This is so bad, dude. It makes me so sad. So Doug, you can look this up and I don't know if you can find a YouTube video on this. So these are mom. These are women, typically single in middle aged and they buy these life like toddler dolls and they, they treat them like real children.

[Justin Andrews]

This is depressing.

[Sal DeStefano]

And they document themselves like, oh, they go in the bed, they go in the bedroom and wake up my kid. And then they dress them and they feed them and then they prepare them.

[Justin Andrews]

For maybe adopting or having like, is there like. Or is this just.

[Sal DeStefano]

This is. This is it.

[Adam Schafer]

So what I think is worse than.

[Sal DeStefano]

That makes me so sad.

[Adam Schafer]

What's worse than that is that there's enough people that would follow and watch that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

It's one thing if maybe you, you do something like that, which I think is.

[Sal DeStefano]

I think people are watching because they're sad maybe or they think it's disturbing. But you should hear these women talking. Who are these doll moms and how they walk through their day? And it's.

[Justin Andrews]

I didn't think about that like in terms of robots and companions, like for.

[Sal DeStefano]

Women, that's, that's the direction.

[Justin Andrews]

A little kid robot.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's the direction I was going because we've talked a lot on this podcast.

[Justin Andrews]

We talk about the sex robot.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yes.

[Justin Andrews]

That's where our male brain goes.

[Sal DeStefano]

Because we know what's going to happen there. Right?

[Adam Schafer]

What an interesting thing. I need to think about that. I never. I just said what a point of our male brain. That's where we went obviously to the.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, so. So I'm sure there's going to be women that are going to have sex robots too. Too blah. But it's going to be male market, right? With. With.

[Adam Schafer]

But there will be a female market.

[Sal DeStefano]

Female market for children, companionship, little, little children. Robots that are, you know, realistic.

[Adam Schafer]

Really?

[Sal DeStefano]

I guarantee it. I guarantee.

[Adam Schafer]

I. This is so interesting to me. I didn't know this. Exactly how did you come across this, bro?

[Sal DeStefano]

There was some news watching this. No, it was. It was on my feed on X and people were talking about this. These. And they're meeting, they're making communities where they have their help. Doug Google, they're. I think he found. He's trying to connect.

[Justin Andrews]

He's pushing buttons.

[Sal DeStefano]

So Doug has. There's a lot of buttons. I don't want. I don't want.

[Adam Schafer]

Hey, with his beard.

[Sal DeStefano]

I don't want to mess.

[Justin Andrews]

I know. Yeah, he'll bite you there.

[Sal DeStefano]

He does look. He does a little way more.

[Adam Schafer]

Tim. Have a little more edge.

[Sal DeStefano]

Hey, off air. Doug told us he gets. He gets more respect. That's what he said.

[Doug]

I wasn't getting any respect before.

[Adam Schafer]

That's why I backed.

[Sal DeStefano]

I backpedal.

[Adam Schafer]

I take that back.

[Sal DeStefano]

Are you able to find them, Doug?

[Doug]

Well, this is a YouTube short and for some reason it's not casting.

[Sal DeStefano]

No worries. No worries. But it's really sad.

[Adam Schafer]

We can imagine it.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, they show this mom, you know, I wake up in the morning and then I go wake up, you know, whatever.

[Adam Schafer]

Does it have like a big following?

[Sal DeStefano]

Sal, There's a lot of these moms that are coming together. I mean, it's the Internet, so you know, you can find anybody.

[Justin Andrews]

But they're moms or they're not moms.

[Sal DeStefano]

They're not moms. They call themselves doll moms and they buy these real. These hyper realistic.

[Justin Andrews]

So there's make believe, like they're pretending.

[Sal DeStefano]

Dude, it makes me really sad. Yeah, but that's exactly where I went is, I thought, man, we're gonna have these realistic AI robots and I bet you there's gonna be.

[Adam Schafer]

So what I'm curious about.

[Justin Andrews]

Biological urge.

[Adam Schafer]

Of course.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

So what I'm. What I'm curious about is like, how big is the fallen? Because if it's some novel, random weird Thing that you found that's like a one off.

[Justin Andrews]

There's.

[Adam Schafer]

There's one of everything on the Internet.

[Sal DeStefano]

Sure.

[Adam Schafer]

But if it's got like a following.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Where there's like a, you know, hundreds of thousands or a million people following and watching and, and into it is, is. Is makes. Makes your case for sure that that's a, A viable thing that will have. I mean, I guess it's a. So, okay, so I mean here's, here's a twist to that. Yeah. Is it if you have somebody who is depressed and sad and, and, and, and that helps.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's how they're going to sell it.

[Adam Schafer]

Of course that's how.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's the same way they're selling sex robots.

[Adam Schafer]

Of course. So.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, yeah, they will companion.

[Adam Schafer]

I mean they'll still. They'll use it, sell it however they want. So how do you go?

[Sal DeStefano]

Look at her. Okay, so she goes in the morning, takes out her little fake doll. She goes and gets her dressed and ready. Like treats it like it's a real child.

[Justin Andrews]

Like posts this like every day.

[Sal DeStefano]

And yeah, look, she's got another one in there. It's a little older looking and it's just. It breaks my heart, dude. You know, I would love to just give this woman a hug and just makes me so sad.

[Justin Andrews]

Just it goes to show too.

[Adam Schafer]

I don't know.

[Justin Andrews]

Like I brought up a long time ago, I was surprised in the world. Yeah, dude, like the different algorithms we all have, you know, like, it's so, it's so vast.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, she's even got like tons of bottles and everything.

[Justin Andrews]

This is so what are people are looking at? You know, because there was one like there's these Mormon moms that I told you about that, that got. It got like distorted. But they're like influencers. Just showing how they mother their children, how they discipline all this just. And people. I understand because it's like you kind of want to, you know, look and see how people are handling certain issues and whatnot. But like this is like a, a whole nother layer.

[Adam Schafer]

We think she gets maternity leave. You think she could do this?

[Justin Andrews]

I mean, emotional support dogs have made on.

[Sal DeStefano]

You know, it's an athlete alive though. I know you imagine going over someone's house and they've got realistic dolls.

[Adam Schafer]

How long do you stay? Because the baby's sleeping.

[Sal DeStefano]

How fast?

[Adam Schafer]

Hey, hey, hey. Do you just do your Italian voice? A complete like baby sleeping.

[Sal DeStefano]

Dude, how fast would you get out of there?

[Justin Andrews]

I'd be like, oh, hi. Oh, that's your kid. Okay. Anyways, I hear my mom calling.

[Sal DeStefano]

I'm out of here.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

See, she's got several kids. Several dolls, I should say. I know it's really sad. Along these lines, I heard a quote yesterday from this. This expert. I thought it was brilliant. She said that masculinity has always been more fragile than femininity. So don't. Don't interrupt me yet. She didn't mean it in the sense of, like, how people think. Yeah. Hurt my feelings. No, what she said was that she was making the case that girls, you know, girls grow up into women. And how do you determine if a girl becomes a woman? She becomes fertile. Typically. That's like the rite of passage. Boys, the way you become a man is by adopting responsibility. This is how you have to become a man. Otherwise you never become a man. So a. A boy who grows up with no.

[Adam Schafer]

Real responsibility or the Peter Pan.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right.

[Adam Schafer]

That's where that.

[Sal DeStefano]

She said, that's why it's so fragile, is because throughout all of history, there's been rites of passage and responsibility that has taken boys and turned them into men. And when you eliminate those that just. You just. You just don't.

[Justin Andrews]

Yes.

[Sal DeStefano]

You just don't ever grow.

[Justin Andrews]

We need our elders. We need. You know, that's what I don't like about Western societies. We kind of push away a lot of, like, old wisdom.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yep.

[Justin Andrews]

And it's. We need that more than ever is. Is like the old wisdom to come in.

[Adam Schafer]

You know, speaking of wisdom, I mean, I saw an Arthur Books clip today. That so good. I've listened to so much of his stuff, and I always share him with him. It's rare that I come across something that I haven't already consumed to his. And it was totally new.

[Doug]

It was.

[Adam Schafer]

He. He was talking to rich roll, which now makes me want to go back and listen to that episode because I thought I'd listen to everything that he said. And he gave this rule. He's in his. His Harvard class where he teaches happiness. Right. He gave them this. This task of all the time. Like every time to write down all the times you've been disappointed, frustrated, or like a failure. A failure. A struggle in your life when those. When those things happen. Right. To actually. To list them. To write them down. And when you write them down, to leave two lines. So two spaces underneath it. And then he goes. Then you come back in 30 days and you. You write down on the first line what you learned.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

From that mistake. And then you go. I think he said 30 or 60 days out from that and then you come back and then you write what good came of that mistake or failure? And he goes, if you keep this habit up of doing this every time you have these mistakes and failures in your life, before long you have this, you know, book of all these things that you've been through. That's not only a list of failures, but also what you learn from them. And then the good thing that actually came from that. And he goes, it will reframe as. And if you, once you, you'll train the brain till. Okay, now I. This huge tragic thing happens in my life or mistake and almost this ability to go, oh well, some growth is going to happen from this and something good will come from this versus dwelling on, oh my God, this was tragic. It was a horrible mistake. Oh, this sucks. Oh, poor me. It's like if you train yourself, I'm like, what a, what a great, great idea to put a practice in like that. Because they're, you know, I talk a lot to like myself. I have my, my, my younger cousin over and he's quite a bit younger than me and kind of mentoring him and sharing so with that. And it's like, you know, there's a lot of things that I've learned just trial by fire. And it's like I don't, I don't have a lot of these, like, cool. I wish somebody would have given that to me like as like a task like that. I just can imagine how fast that would have developed that skill. Like I've, I've, I've learned to do that skill. I've talked about the self awareness of me reflecting on the days where I look at the highs and lows and lean more into that. It's like, man, what a cool exercise to teach like our kids is like, hey, like write it down. You know, I'm saying it happened. And then we'll revisit this in 30 days. We'll talk about, you know, what you.

[Sal DeStefano]

Learn from, you know, you know, what it points to. So you guys have heard of post traumatic stress? There's post traumatic growth. So they're both real. So post traumatic stress, especially disorder is you have something terrible happen, something traumatic.

[Justin Andrews]

Small T, big the negative byproduct.

[Sal DeStefano]

And then it causes this negatives, right? Fear response, anxiety. I never want to do that again. And everyone or whatever, post traumatic growth is same similar trauma, same trauma, but afterwards it's growth. Yes, it's something different, something got better, something, you know, changed. So a good example would be, you know, you Go through a divorce and you could come out and be like, I'll never get married again. Never will I go through that again. That would be like the stress response. Like never again. Never going to partner with anyone, never going to. Whatever the growth side of that might be. Boy, I know what mistakes happened there. I know what I did wrong. I know what happened. But there's so much value in finding a mate and a partner. And so now I'm a different person and I know who to look for this time type of deal. That's just one similar example. But post traumatic growth is a real thing. And that's what he's pointing to. He's. He's literally taking all your failures and showing you how they make you grow.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Which in a sense is your best teacher anyways, is failure. Of course, this is one of those things. And it's hard to always stress, especially to kids, but I think this would be a great practice because then it's like they can come back, revisit. Oh, that was really tough. Wow, this did teach me something. And, and I can learn. And also a positive thing happened as a result, you know, and to reframe it so that way they can look for that earlier as they go along.

[Adam Schafer]

I mean, I couldn't help but think about that when Max gets to that age where we can kind of start to do something like this. I mean, I think within five failures, I'm picking up on that lesson.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

I mean, literally four or five in a row of seeing, oh, same thing. I learned this from this.

[Justin Andrews]

Especially the same subject.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. And so it's like, that's so cool. I mean, it took me a really long time and one of the things I was sharing with my cousin is like, I, I started to realize and attach this through years of all these failures, mistakes and stuff and hardships, is that the harder it was, the better it was on the other side. So like little hiccups in my life, little setbacks was like, oh, the other side of it. There was growth. I learned something. It was. And it was better, but it was actually the, the more traumatic, the harder the thing, the, the better the win was on the other side. And so that really helped reframe when I was going through, especially if it was something that I considered. This is a tough. This is a really tough thing. It was like, okay, well, if I really feel this deep in me, this is tough and this is hard and I'm in that. That means, man, when I get through this, the other side is so much better than maybe that little struggle I had last week that was like, oh, that was a bummer. Or hard, but it wasn't that hard. Like, it's like the heart of the thing. The better it is on the other side. But again, that was something that I didn't document and figure just enough repetition was like, okay, it's starting to click now. Where I think an exercise like that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Is, if you don't do that, then what you remember is the hard thing.

[Adam Schafer]

Yep.

[Sal DeStefano]

You don't remember the thing I learned. Maybe you did learn something and grow, but you might not even be that old.

[Justin Andrews]

You didn't attach it to that.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right. And so the story. Because the story. The stories we tell ourselves are create a narrative. And if the story is this terrible thing happened and that's it. Well, that's the story.

[Adam Schafer]

Right.

[Sal DeStefano]

But if the story is this terrible thing happened, man, here's what I learned from it. Oh, here's how I'm a better person because of it. Now the story is more complete and different. Now we have a different narrative that you can live your life by. But it has to be. I definitely think it's a practice. I don't think it's a natural unless you just. I mean, I don't think it's a natural thing. I think you have to work on it for sure.

[Adam Schafer]

No, I agree. That's what I can't help but think. Like, man, if someone had taught me that tool, like, valuable, maybe, maybe a decade. I save maybe a decade of learning the long way. You know what I'm saying? I. So I just love that. I just. He's got so much valuable, great stuff. And that was it. That was a new one that I hadn't heard him ever say. And I'm like, I'm still gonna implement that with my son.

[Justin Andrews]

I'm still gonna punch this in, like. So I ran across this image that freaked me out, and it was a frog. Had this, like, mutation I've never seen in my life. And I had to, like, cross check this. A bunch of different websites and articles and scientific articles about it. Because I was like, there's no way this is real. I'm still unsure. I'm pretty sure it's real. But the mutation causes the eyes to be inside its mouth.

[Adam Schafer]

What?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, and that's. Yeah, it's real. I've never heard of that.

[Adam Schafer]

Never.

[Justin Andrews]

Can you imagine?

[Adam Schafer]

Come on, dad, give me a picture.

[Justin Andrews]

Like in nature, a frog just, you know, on a lily pad and all. Of a sudden just opens his mouth.

[Sal DeStefano]

And it's doesn't that. It feels like a.

[Justin Andrews]

Feels like Beetlejuice or something. Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, wow. That's wild.

[Sal DeStefano]

Isn't that weird? Like weird.

[Adam Schafer]

What?

[Justin Andrews]

Is there any other animal that does that? Like, I was thinking about that.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's a developmental anomaly often called a macro mutation.

[Adam Schafer]

I mean, obviously it's. They have a name for it. It happens enough that they've seen it enough times to name it something.

[Justin Andrews]

I think it's real, but I've never. Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

You know, there's a fish that has like human looking teeth. Have you seen this fish?

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, I've heard about this.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Like, if you like, they'll. You'll catch it. And it's got like teeth, bro. Like a person like molars. Fish with human like teeth. Look at the. Look at the picture of this. It's got. It's. Oh, look at. Oh my God.

[Adam Schafer]

That's freaky. That's hilarious.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, it's called what's called a sheep head.

[Doug]

Yes, sheep's head.

[Sal DeStefano]

Sheep's head.

[Adam Schafer]

Where do you catch that kind of fish?

[Sal DeStefano]

Dude, I wanna.

[Justin Andrews]

I wanna taxidermy that thing.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh my God. Make it into the new bass.

[Justin Andrews]

Remember those bass ones you. Hang on.

[Adam Schafer]

Where are they found? Are they obviously that. Look at that. Look at all the teeth they have in there.

[Sal DeStefano]

That would scare the hell out of me.

[Justin Andrews]

That really does look human. That is freaky.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Oh my gosh.

[Adam Schafer]

That's so funny.

[Sal DeStefano]

Doug, I'm gonna ask you now, you looked this up. Where's it. Where's. In Florida, of course. Is it Florida?

[Adam Schafer]

Hey, you know what? No. Doug, you know we're doing different today.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, that's what I was gonna ask him.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, you are?

[Sal DeStefano]

He's got that big mystery box.

[Adam Schafer]

We haven't done an unboxing from our place in a long time.

[Justin Andrews]

These are always fun back.

[Adam Schafer]

It's a big box. You might have to come around for that.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, he's ripping it. He's. He's doing it beard style.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. So this. So they sent us. What did they send us from our place?

[Doug]

Okay, there's two boxes. I pulled my mic here. Two boxes inside of the one box.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay.

[Sal DeStefano]

All right. All right. I probably should have prepared that.

[Adam Schafer]

No, no, that's good. No, this is a part of the excitement.

[Sal DeStefano]

Now. Is this for us to take? Doug, Is this us?

[Justin Andrews]

Of course.

[Sal DeStefano]

Do we have this? All right.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay.

[Sal DeStefano]

My wife love.

[Justin Andrews]

Dude, our place is the best.

[Sal DeStefano]

So I call dibs.

[Justin Andrews]

I know. All right, I gotta on this and pans and we got that air fryer dryer is amazing.

[Adam Schafer]

We have. We have a whole set at home. Yeah, I understand. And maybe. And maybe we can get to that. You can explain the. How it feels better than like to clean than Teflon, but it's not Teflon that's on there.

[Sal DeStefano]

Like what.

[Adam Schafer]

What is that? That how they do that.

[Sal DeStefano]

But they know they don't use any of the.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. No chemicals. No forever chemicals. But the cleaning on them is. Is incredible.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh yeah, I have that pan.

[Adam Schafer]

Yep.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, that's a cast iron pan.

[Doug]

It's a cast iron.

[Sal DeStefano]

What is that ceramic? What is that on the.

[Doug]

It's almost like a ceramic on it. But it's super easy to clean.

[Sal DeStefano]

Super easy to clean it.

[Doug]

But it's cast iron cook eggs.

[Sal DeStefano]

I use that on it. I have that pan and it comes.

[Doug]

With a lid and a wooden spoon. And the wooden spoon, by the way, is designed to rest a hole and there's a little peg on the. On the handle and. Yeah. So when you're cooking, you can just set your spoon like that.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, that's cool.

[Doug]

And you don't lose it.

[Sal DeStefano]

So that's pretty cool, dude. By the way, cast iron pans are so heavy. Remember cartoons when they blast someone in the head with those, you would kill someone if you hit them with a cast iron pan.

[Justin Andrews]

Remember when you're talking about post stress. I have a little bit with the wooden spoon.

[Adam Schafer]

Me too. I was like that kind of like. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Kept it in my mom's purse and she's.

[Adam Schafer]

My mom used to hang it. Used to hang in the. In the kitchen? Yeah, yeah, I used to hang in the kitchen.

[Sal DeStefano]

Your mom's weren't even Italian. You got hit with a spoon, huh?

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, yeah, yeah. My mom thought she bro back in the 80s.

[Adam Schafer]

You didn't have to be Italian to get me.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

She.

[Sal DeStefano]

She just. I don't know why.

[Adam Schafer]

I don't know why you think.

[Justin Andrews]

I mean, my mom's redhead, so that explains everything.

[Sal DeStefano]

But just the spoon part of it. So that's the. Okay.

[Doug]

This is actually a non stick pan. So the cast iron is a ceramic pan, I believe. And this has the non stick surface on it.

[Adam Schafer]

So I have that one and the cast iron.

[Doug]

I have a smaller version of this one.

[Adam Schafer]

Me too. I want the big one.

[Doug]

I know you want the big.

[Sal DeStefano]

We're going to have to arm wrestling.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, I think. Yeah, it's either me or Doug because I think Dean Doug wants to cook. So you guys. Don't you guys get vetoed out on the.

[Justin Andrews]

I mean, my wife cooks, but, yeah, she appreciated.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Doug]

It's super lightweight, too.

[Adam Schafer]

Is it?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Doug]

The cast iron, obviously, is very heavy.

[Adam Schafer]

So what. What is. What is that, though? That it's better. It's, like, easier to. If you ever clean. The reason why everyone loves Teflon is because how easy it is to clean.

[Sal DeStefano]

Right.

[Adam Schafer]

It. Those are easier to clean than a Teflon pan is, but it doesn't have any.

[Sal DeStefano]

And they don't scratch. Yeah. I mean, super durable.

[Doug]

Super durable. I wouldn't use steel tools.

[Adam Schafer]

No, no, no, no. You don't want to steal tools.

[Sal DeStefano]

You only.

[Doug]

It's more durable than Teflon.

[Adam Schafer]

It's crazy.

[Doug]

And it's not te. I don't know exactly what it is.

[Sal DeStefano]

By the way, the forever chemicals, they've already connected them to hormone disruption, cancers, heart disease, developmental issues with children. They've now connected them to Ms. Dude. Multiple sclerosis.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. So not good.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yes. And they're called forever chemicals because they're very hard to get rid of. They just build up in your system. So now one of the.

[Adam Schafer]

One of the best ways. And I mean, let's just say somebody is like, they did for a long time. Now you're making the switch over to things like our place. Would you say one of the best things would be regular sauna online exercise?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Well, of course.

[Adam Schafer]

Everybody listening to this podcast does exercise, Right?

[Sal DeStefano]

Sauna helps accelerate it.

[Adam Schafer]

I was gonna say, I would think sauna would be something that would be, like, one of the better things.

[Sal DeStefano]

And I told you guys what I learned about psyllium husk, Right?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's a great way to get rid of microplastics. Yes.

[Justin Andrews]

Me and Courtney have both been taking it for that specific reason. Because I'm, like, paranoid. It's in my brain.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

So anything in my brain, I'm like, I can't handle.

[Sal DeStefano]

Why are you so worried about your brain all the time?

[Justin Andrews]

Because I'm the one that's hit it the most.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, you have. But we've been working with you for 10 years.

[Adam Schafer]

How did you have not.

[Sal DeStefano]

Because I'm working on it. I know we're all a little bit. Oh, our mri. Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, I'm nervous.

[Adam Schafer]

So what do you call those? It's not a traditional mri. That was like a. Like a super full body.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, it's a full body mri. And they looked at every organ, your arteries, your spine. There. It's preventative. They can find cancers way before you'd have symptoms. They could find issues way before you'd have symptoms and they looked at the brain, too. So you're worried what they're gonna find?

[Justin Andrews]

I don't, you know, like, I'm not even a hypochondriac or anything. Like, I just. I'm very dismissive of that stuff. But, you know when you're actually putting me in a freaking tube and you're scanning me everywhere.

[Adam Schafer]

How'd you guys all do?

[Justin Andrews]

I think there's something that we didn't.

[Adam Schafer]

Really talk about how everybody I. You know.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, let me touch on this first. Justin, your brain's fine. It's your. It's your esophagus, bro. That's what we gotta look at.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, yeah, yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

The one thing you're avoiding. We'll see. He just wanted to avoid it like crazy. Well, I knew I was going to.

[Justin Andrews]

Do the scan, so I was like, I'm not going to go to the doctor and have him like, shove things down my throat.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, no, thanks. Not again.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, in there, stuff like that should pop up for him too, though.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, they'll look at that. Yeah, they'll. They'll. They. If there's. I don't know how much they can see in the esophagus with that, I think.

[Justin Andrews]

I don't know. There was a form in the beginning that like kind of highlighted that area. So hopefully.

[Sal DeStefano]

Don't give me some feedback, bro. Laying down still for a 50 minute MRI is not that.

[Adam Schafer]

And strapped in.

[Sal DeStefano]

Not that easy.

[Adam Schafer]

I don't know that strapped in. She straight, like strapped everything.

[Doug]

I didn't get strapped.

[Justin Andrews]

I was fine.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, wow.

[Doug]

They laid something on top of me.

[Sal DeStefano]

You fit nice.

[Adam Schafer]

She's like, yeah, you can move around.

[Doug]

You guys look like.

[Adam Schafer]

You guys look like sleeping in a coffin. She's like, you know, just don't do too many backflips in there.

[Sal DeStefano]

The rest of us big guys, she's.

[Adam Schafer]

Like, listen, don't move. Yeah, you move. You move one inch, it could cut your arm off. She's like, that's why my put these things. She tells Doug, they didn't put the.

[Sal DeStefano]

They didn't put the thing on you with the straps around it so your arms didn't come out.

[Adam Schafer]

They didn't lock you in.

[Doug]

I didn't get strapped down per se. They had something on top of me. But not like she.

[Adam Schafer]

She strapped it in for both sides.

[Sal DeStefano]

Because my arms wanted to come out.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Doug]

His laps were too big. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Anyway, I was getting a bit numb for sure.

[Adam Schafer]

But, you know, right when she had finished everything and she's like, are you okay? And I'm like, I gotta scratch my face.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, God.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, right here.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. It's like. So she undid one side, like, scratched.

[Sal DeStefano]

My face one more time. I like, okay, I think I'm good.

[Adam Schafer]

All right, let's go.

[Justin Andrews]

You know, but do a little bit of this.

[Sal DeStefano]

But they let you watch tv.

[Adam Schafer]

That. That part was helped a lot.

[Sal DeStefano]

I wasn't.

[Adam Schafer]

So I haven't done a full MRI that way. I've done. They did MRIs on, I think, my leg before. I'm trying to think, but I've never.

[Sal DeStefano]

Been like, full body.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, full body like that. And so she's like, are you. Are you claustrophobic? And I'm like, I don't know. We'll find out.

[Sal DeStefano]

We'll find out.

[Adam Schafer]

But the fact that you could. That. It felt like I was watching through a tunnel. This the movie.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's fine. Plus, they'll offer you. They offer you a volume if you need it, so. Which I was kind of like, I should have lied. She's like, do you need a volume? I joked with her. I'm like, well, save it if you want to give it.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, dude, you know what I was.

[Adam Schafer]

Thinking the whole time?

[Sal DeStefano]

If you get paranoid or anxious, they'll give you.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, yeah, they'll give you a sedative. But, like, Avatar, I was thinking the whole time, you know how they put them, like, in one of those. It was like the same machine. I felt like, what did everybody watch? Maybe I could be a Bluish.

[Sal DeStefano]

I watched the first episode of Stranger Things.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, I just watched Stranger Things.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, you both did.

[Justin Andrews]

You lazy mentioned it. And I was like, yeah, I might as well.

[Adam Schafer]

What'd you watch?

[Doug]

That new George Clooney movie. I forget the name of it. Something Kelly.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, was that any good?

[Doug]

It was pretty. Pretty good, actually.

[Adam Schafer]

That was.

[Doug]

Yeah, I ended up watching it at home. The rest of it.

[Adam Schafer]

So I watched J. Kelly, David Letterman's interview of Adam Sandler, and then he talked about that.

[Doug]

And it's a sad movie, honestly.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, really?

[Doug]

It's about this guy. I don't want to.

[Adam Schafer]

Based on a true story.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, is it?

[Adam Schafer]

Okay, he's like the agent of, like.

[Doug]

An actor or something, like an aging movie star. He has some kids, but he's been on the road so much, he didn't really develop a relationship with his children.

[Adam Schafer]

I mean, would you watch it again or recommend it?

[Doug]

I wouldn't watch it again. No, I mean, recommending it. I think if you want a sentimental type of movie, one that makes you kind of sad then. It's a good one for that. Yeah, I felt sad because, seriously, I mean, you know, having this. All this fame and adoration, yet no relationship with your kids and all the regrets, and he's with a lot of people, but he's very alone.

[Adam Schafer]

I mean, I think that's a very real story. I think it's a very real story.

[Sal DeStefano]

I have a friend who did one of those full body scans, and they saw. I can't remember what the. What it was something in her spine. Nothing to worry about. But now that she knows, she can monitor it. And so now that she monitors it, she can see if it. But she would have never known.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, I have this weird I'm excited and nervous feeling about it.

[Sal DeStefano]

Like, what if it's something that just now is just gonna make me stressed out?

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

We're gonna keep an eye on this one thing right here. So.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Right. Cool.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Which she didn't tell me.

[Adam Schafer]

No, no, I'm super. But everyone that I've talked to, this, like. It's like the. This is, like, really cool technology. Like, the fact that they can see things.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, here's where I see the huge value, because I have experience with cancer. I've had some family members with it, and there's a lot of cancers that are terminal, mainly because they started way earlier. You just. You just. You don't feel symptoms until it's stage four. You know, if you have stomach cancer, you're not gonna notice anything until it's, like, you know, stage three, stage four pancreatic cancer, ovarian cancer. Like, there's a lot of cancers that by the time you get symptoms and they find it, they're like, oh, it's spread.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

But if you see it early, very treatable. It's just. You just don't feel anything at those points. So a scan like this would catch. Yeah, all of those things, and they're not expensive. I think it's like.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, for what we. Well, ours. The ones we did was four.

[Sal DeStefano]

No, no. Yes. It was 2500.

[Adam Schafer]

No, no, no. Well, it was four. It was. What we did was a $4900 one.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, it was.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I looked.

[Sal DeStefano]

I looked. But I think you can use an health savings account, right?

[Doug]

Yeah, I'm sure you can.

[Sal DeStefano]

So if people have that, they can use that for.

[Adam Schafer]

I'm sure.

[Sal DeStefano]

I'm sure.

[Adam Schafer]

I believe we're going to. So when we get our tests, I believe we're having them come on and talk to us.

[Sal DeStefano]

All. No, I don't want my test revealed on the show.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh yeah, no, we're definitely going to talk about.

[Sal DeStefano]

You suck. What if they find something that was part of the deal. Terrible episode.

[Adam Schafer]

That was part of the deal. That's exactly what we do. What are you talking about?

[Sal DeStefano]

We're on air.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, maybe we start a patreon to help you out. Why is it me? Because most. Because you stressed it out.

[Sal DeStefano]

They're like there was.

[Adam Schafer]

There's way too many peptides and chemicals in here for us to see anything through this.

[Sal DeStefano]

That sucks, bro. Stop scaring me. Yeah, Justin, we brought, we talked about your brain earlier. I gotta ask you, have you been consistent with trying to hit the higher limits of creatine? The 10, 15, 20 grams a day, have you been trying that?

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, I have.

[Justin Andrews]

I haven't been successful. I've been successful. No, I did, I did. Do you know the higher doses and I had to spread it out throughout the day like five milligrams a piece.

[Sal DeStefano]

Five grams a piece.

[Justin Andrews]

That's what I mean. Grams obviously is not working.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, but you have to double it up more, bro.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, no, but it does, it does make an impact and it's. I, I do feel the difference when I'm doing that. I did it for like two weeks and then I, I fell off a bit.

[Sal DeStefano]

But yeah, the data pretty, pretty rad, dude. I think the issue is taking it is, is people can't do 15 grams all at once.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, I definitely had like stomach cramp and like.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, but if it's 5 grams with breakfast, lunch and dinner, you're hitting the. Yeah. Right around what you're. What they're showing is effective for the brain and I like that like organic.

[Justin Andrews]

Up to 20 or would you.

[Sal DeStefano]

I'm trying to get between 10 to 15 a day. Okay. But the cherry chews from organifier are good for that because they taste good and it's like oh yeah, lunch, you eat a few.

[Justin Andrews]

Much better way to do it.

[Sal DeStefano]

And then the tart cherry in there, I am noticing some anti inflammatory effects from. That's what tart cherry does. So it's got anti inflammatory.

[Adam Schafer]

Had you ever had you. Because I think you. I remember when they first brought those to us and you, you got all excited like oh, had you taken that by itself before?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yes. Tart cherry. There's very few things that you'll take that you'll see. You'll feel a significant difference in inflammation. That's natural. One of them is Omega 3s so for a lot of people if you take a high EPA fish oil at relatively high doses, you'll notice a reduction in inflammation. Another one's bromelain on an empty stomach. It's got really powerful anti inflammatory effects.

[Justin Andrews]

I think he's slowing down a lot.

[Sal DeStefano]

And then tart cherries, the other one.

[Adam Schafer]

What about turmeric?

[Sal DeStefano]

Turmeric, yes. But turmeric has got this kind of systemic effect. And you know, I've noticed some turmeric, but it's not like pronounced like tart. Cherry, bromelain, fish oil. Do it for a week and you'll notice it's like you're taking ibuprofen.

[Adam Schafer]

Interesting.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, it's got a really, really power. It's like what I tell my parents, my dad, I have him take it regularly because he's got lots of, you know, aches and pains. Yeah, huge difference.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, interesting.

[Sal DeStefano]

But it's got that in there. Their cherry chews. It's got both.

[Adam Schafer]

Is there anywhere where that's found in nature where you would like cherry? Oh, so it's already naturally. So if you ate cherries, you would get. You, would you get it, Would you.

[Sal DeStefano]

Get certain type of cherries? You'd have to eat a lot of them.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay. Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

To get this.

[Justin Andrews]

Concentrated tart ones.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. He's on fire, dude. Hey, I got, I got a new. I got something that I found, might make a difference for the pump. Glycerol.

[Adam Schafer]

What?

[Sal DeStefano]

Have you guys ever used glycerol before your workout?

[Justin Andrews]

Is there nitroglycerol?

[Adam Schafer]

Isn't that like in gummies and things like that?

[Sal DeStefano]

So glycerol, it's an osmolite. So it draws fluid into your tissues and you'll see some performance changes and improvements. And I was hearing reports of, you know, bodybuilders have used glycerol on, off for better pumps. And so I started experimenting with it. And I'll let you guys know as I continue messing with it, because there's so many things that affect the pump, but so far I think I noticed a difference.

[Adam Schafer]

Huh.

[Sal DeStefano]

From taking it. Wow.

[Adam Schafer]

Justin, still stuck.

[Justin Andrews]

You ever heard of a NAR gum?

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, Yeah, I knew stuck.

[Sal DeStefano]

Which one?

[Justin Andrews]

Nar gum?

[Sal DeStefano]

Nar or guar?

[Justin Andrews]

Guar.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay.

[Justin Andrews]

I'm just trying to like, list off random, like ingredients that are in every supplement. He like takes them and pulls them apart. He's like, have you guys ever heard of this? Yeah, yeah, it was like listed in the. The thousands of other.

[Adam Schafer]

What are you taking in?

[Justin Andrews]

Like, massive.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, these are compounds that draw fluid in. So creatine would be Considered osmol. Yeah. Glycine is another one. And I think I'm saying it right. Is it osmolite? Doug, am I saying it right? Look the term up, make sure I didn't just make something up.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, I think sounds like a superhero group.

[Adam Schafer]

I thought there was somebody from Lord of the Rings.

[Justin Andrews]

It sounded like osmolites.

[Sal DeStefano]

It sounds. Sounds like. Like something you'd read in the Old Testament. The Mennonites and the osmolites.

[Justin Andrews]

That's it.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Worshiping the pagan God for. Is that right?

[Doug]

Yes. So osmolytes. Yeah, Small organic molecules. Cells used to manage water balance and survive stress.

[Sal DeStefano]

There you go.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, wow.

[Sal DeStefano]

There you go. So glycerol give a shot by itself? Yeah. Take it 30 minutes before you work out with some water.

[Adam Schafer]

Interesting.

[Sal DeStefano]

And it's like crazy pumps. Like, I drink way more water because. Yeah, I work. Work out early in the morning. Sometimes I just.

[Adam Schafer]

Are you taking it in a powder or clear in a pill form?

[Sal DeStefano]

No, it's in like a powder.

[Adam Schafer]

Is it tasteless? Yeah, because I'm trying to think, like, mixing that with, like, element or something like that. So it's like. Yeah, just throw it in there.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Tasteless.

[Adam Schafer]

Mm.

[Sal DeStefano]

Mm.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay, take that.

[Sal DeStefano]

My xylitol Troscriptions has some pretty amazing products. One of them is just blue. This is methylene blue. I know you've heard of methylene blue. This will wake you up. It's not really a stimulant, but it gets your brain firing in all cylinders. It enhances mitochondrial function, gives you energy anti inflammatory. It's pretty amazing stuff. Everybody's trying it out. Well, troscriptions is the best brand for methyl and blue. In fact, you put it between your gums and it absorbs so fast, 15 minutes later you feel it. You can also just swallow it if you want it to take a little longer. Anyway, go check them out. We have a discount for you. Go to troscriptions.com mindpump. That's T-R-O-S-C-R-I P T-I-O-N-S.com mindpump. The code mindpump will get you 10% off. All right, here comes the show.

[Doug]

First question is from Brad Barber. I want to build muscle, but also start BJJ this year as a 41 year old. Is it possible? If so, how should I program?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, it's possible. I mean, but jiu jitsu is pretty intensive, and if you're just getting started, that's probably going to be about as much stress as your body can handle in the beginning. But once you get going, if you're doing jiu jitsu, most people who do it consistently do it two, maybe three days a week. You're looking at one day a week of minimal strength training or like a Maps 15 protocol. More than that. You're just gonna. Most people overturn.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. Teetering into overdoing.

[Sal DeStefano]

Most Jiu jitsu classes are a couple hours long. Long warm up and workout. Then you're wrestling with men at full speed. Like it's, it's, it'll, it'll burn you.

[Justin Andrews]

Go max intensity in those sessions for sure.

[Sal DeStefano]

It'll burn you out.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, I mean, Listen, Maps, the MAP15 protocol by itself is a great program for someone to build muscle on and build strength on. And if you are doing something like bjj, that is obviously a lot more stress. And so I would say that's at the. You're, you're already teetering right there. So. And the average person would think that they can do more or want to do more. And so it's mass 15. I would even say maps 15 when you, when you can. Or on off days. Like I definitely wouldn't run a maps 15 and then also do a BJJ class. I would be like, if you're going to two, three days a week BJJ, then I would be doing two or three days a week of Mass 15.

[Sal DeStefano]

Exactly.

[Adam Schafer]

And that's a PL. That's plenty enough of a protocol to still build muscle and then, and still get in great shape.

[Justin Andrews]

Working a bunch of mobility though. I know this from trying BJ right away. It's like you definitely gotta work on that hip mobility and ankles now do they do.

[Adam Schafer]

Is that kind of part of the warm up? I would think. I don't know.

[Justin Andrews]

It is probably in a good school.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, it is. And, and if you're, if you're smart about when you roll with other people, so you have to check your ego out the door. Because if you go real hard, especially as a beginner, you don't know how to move your body. Injury is really common. But if you go kind of easy, you tap out quick, tap out easy, don't go full bore all the time kind of flow, you know. And when I say check your ego, it's because you get your butt kicked and you got to be okay with that. Your body will start to learn and acclimate. You'll build up mobility. But if you go in there, like, especially as a beginner, like I Need to win.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

And then they're, they're chance up and.

[Justin Andrews]

You'Re going to hurt yourself.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. And you just don't know how to turn, you don't know how to move. You end up spinning in the wrong direction.

[Justin Andrews]

You go with it.

[Sal DeStefano]

Totally. But look, I was in my 20s when I did Jiu jitsu. I was eating good, I was consistent. And when I was doing Jiu jitsu three days a week consistently, especially if I did it for one day a week, three lifts, was it. Yeah. And if I did more than that, I would go backwards with my performance. And I didn't start that way. I thought I could just keep lifting and it just was getting burnt out. It wasn't until I scaled way down that I started to see my body progress. And I was in my 20s, I wasn't in my 40s.

[Doug]

Next question is from J.D. williams, 1570. What are some recommended movements and or routines for joint instability?

[Sal DeStefano]

So strength training is the best for joint instability. The key is to get stronger and to do it in a controlled manner. So if you feel unstable in your hips, a lunge or a squat with good control technique and form is going to build. So instability comes from weakness. Strength, yes, it's weakness. By the way, this can mask, this can look like tightness. A lot of people think tightness is not weakness. No, no. When something's unstable, the CNS tightens the muscles around it to limit range of motion to prevent injury. That's what your body's trying to do. So it's really a weakness thing. So as you slowly get stronger, you feel much more stable.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, and I think too just like top of mind in these positions that you're about to place yourself in before the exercises to really reinforce those positions with isometric tension. And so I would take an extra like 4, 5, 10 seconds of me like really driving that muscle contraction, you know, solidifying position, anchoring myself into position before I even started moving, just to reinforce that signal that, hey, my, my joints are secure and everything is accounted for and now I can actually add load. And you know, the more you do that, the more naturally you're going to build up that stability.

[Adam Schafer]

If I had to give a couple of exercises I think are just generic, but that, that address what we're talking about right now, it's like I think of a long stride, a lunge and I think of the Z press. So I think lower body, I think of an exercise like long, long strided walking lunges for that, the, the stability, range of motion, control Strength. And then I think of the upper body. I think of a Z press is just with. With an emphasis on the, you know, stabilizing. Holding the bar above your head. Like, those are great. Those two movements, if performed well and you get strong at them, you're gonna. You're gonna hit a lot of the basis right there in those two movements.

[Doug]

Next question is from Morgan B. Peterson. At what age did you realize you no longer needed to hit PRs?

[Sal DeStefano]

You know, this is a cool question.

[Adam Schafer]

I. In our 25, 26. Sal still hasn't figured it out yet, so.

[Sal DeStefano]

No, it's a great.

[Justin Andrews]

Just discount my YouTube series.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, that's right. Just me.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Adam never.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes.

[Sal DeStefano]

You know what's okay, So I have numbers actually, for this, for myself, so.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay.

[Sal DeStefano]

In the deadlift, I saw great progress in my body and how I felt muscle development up until I hit about 500 pounds. And the closer I got to 500, the more the diminishing returns are past 500. I've gotten up to 600 pounds past 500. The risk wasn't worse, was not worth the reward. It's like between 5 and £600, which is £100 on my deadlift. What's the difference in the way my physique looks and feels? It's not. In fact, I hurt a little more at the higher weight with squats. Once I got up to like, 3:50, there was really, really diminishing return bench. It was around 300.

[Adam Schafer]

That's so interesting because I. I totally agree with this. Yeah. Like, that's a right around 500 in the deadlift. Everything beyond that, minimal gains, lots of injury.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right.

[Adam Schafer]

I got hurt a bunch of times.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right.

[Adam Schafer]

Beyond that and squatting as long as I can. I'd say 315.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

When I'm 315 strong.

[Sal DeStefano]

Like the difference between three and 400 with your squad? No difference. No difference except risk of injury. Yes.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes. And when the times I was over 400 were the times that I'm getting hurt or having chronic issues and stuff like that. I would say very, very similar numbers. I would say the almost right exact. That's interesting.

[Sal DeStefano]

And it's going to be different from person to person. Some exercises, you're more naturally, I guess, strong. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

I was at 450 on deadlift, and I was like, I'm done.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. But your bench, you got up to 405.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. Go for.

[Sal DeStefano]

When did you start to see diminishing returns with your. With your bench? Was it around 350. Also like three.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, yeah. Diminishing return wise. Yeah, probably like three. Yeah, three.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. See, I would put myself in 200. I would say like 2, 5275. And after that it wasn't that big.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, I'm like this. That's plenty, dude. For me.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, yeah. It's interesting. It's going to be different from person to person, but we end up finding is at some point you get these great returns for every time you gain strength, and then it starts to kind of level out and you just end up hurting more. And that's just a number on the bar. And so what do you do at that point? Well, that point, it's about technique, form, feel. I get much better results if I do a bench press today. And instead of going up to 300 pounds, staying at 225 and feeling every rep, getting the stretch, getting the squeeze, controlling the weight, again, this is going to be different from person to person. But you kind of figure this out. But in the beginning, the context being doing everything right, your good technique, good form, good programming. In the beginning, hitting PR is a great way to see progress. Hitting stronger is a great way to see progress.

[Adam Schafer]

I have such a reverse relationship with this because I was the guy who never did PR lifting for the first 10, 15 years of my life. And then it wasn't really until we all got introduced to where I started, like, okay, let me see what I can do, like, strengthwise. And then I reaped a lot of benefits in my 30s of like building muscle and, and built a lot. And then it. Then I dealt with all the other issues. So I kind of had all of, like, up until that point, though, I didn't have. When I wasn't chasing PRs, I didn't have a lot of injuries. I didn't have a lot.

[Sal DeStefano]

You didn't chase PRs, but it wasn't like you didn't pay attention to the weight. You got stronger.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

So you still got stronger.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah. But I wasn't.

[Sal DeStefano]

You weren't focused on it.

[Adam Schafer]

I was never. I never did anything less than five.

[Sal DeStefano]

Reps. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

So, I mean, so, so I, I could never. When someone asked me, how much do you bench, how much you squat? My answer would be like, I don't know. I mean, I work out with this weight and that weight always increased over my. In my 20s, but I never challenged like a single, double or triple until literally I started hanging out with you guys. And then. And I did get to reap the benefits. Late. And I saw, wow, that. That what used, like you said, Those numbers, my 0 to 500 journey, I'd say, you know, that I watched my physique change and build and build and build and build. And then after that, it was like, kind of diminishing returns and. But I was also now a little addicted to seeing how strong I could get. And then now here comes all the stuff. And so it's like trying to figure that out for somebody who's going. It's like there's some obvious benefits to training that way and getting lifting heavy and pushing those limits. But then there comes a point where the. The return is not worth the spend.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's so funny. You start to learn yourself, like, for the last, I'd say, two and a half months. I've never made ever. Well, I have in the past, but this is really consistent. I've consistently made a target to hit 220 grams of protein at least every single day. Okay. Always before that, I was probably falling around 160 to 170. Still high, but not 220. I've noticed incredible gains in the gym. But here's what happens if I get stronger, stronger, stronger. If I don't slow the reps down and just feel the weight, you know, feel it and make it harder. If I just add weight, I start to hurt. Yeah, I start to hurt. So now I know my weight is. Yeah, I know if my, like my incline. I know if I go above 225, I'm just gonna.

[Justin Andrews]

Connected to it.

[Sal DeStefano]

Not as connected. So if I feel stronger, I just make the weight feel heavier.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Rather than trying to.

[Justin Andrews]

I've noticed that too, because I think there's a momentum component to that, you know, and you're just trying to explode through it instead of feeling it. I've had to learn how to do that.

[Doug]

Next question is from JJVW Bug. What are some helpful tips to stay focused and motivated?

[Sal DeStefano]

Have fun. I mean, this is the number one thing.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, I. I mean, I would correct this first. Stay focused is good, but. And motivated is you're not going to be motivated all the time.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. There's a discipline component.

[Adam Schafer]

And so I think.

[Sal DeStefano]

Good point.

[Adam Schafer]

Part of the things that you need to reframe or tell yourself is like, I'm not going to be motivated all the time, but I go to the gym this many times a week. And then the. The next layer to that that I'd add that it's. That's helped me through this process is giving my per. Myself permission that I Might just do a lift. But I'm a guy who goes to the gym this many times, right? So telling yourself, I. I go to the gym at this time or these days, whatever, and then totally realizing or recognizing that there's going to be a lot of those days, I'm not motivated. And so when those days come, you go like, oh, man, I just. I do not feel like going to the gym today. And I got this. And I'm. But you know what? I'm gonna go. And you know what? Maybe I'll just do two or three sets of squats, or maybe sometimes I even said things like, I'll just go there and walk on the treadmill and listen to my audiobook.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

And so I've allowed myself this permission of I. I show up or I just go there, or I do movement or I do something. And a lot of times what happens is I get motivated. The. The music starts going in my ears or whatever, and then it's like, you know what? I think I will go to that squat rack and go hit something. Or maybe I say, I'm just gonna squat after that. Squat goes, now I've got a little bit of a pump. I'm sweating a little bit now I'm like, you know what? I want to finish this workout. And so that would be my big advice to this is one, stop thinking you're going to be motivated all the time, because that's setting yourself up for failure. And then two, give yourself permission that sometimes it looks like an hour walk on the treadmill, sometimes it looks like a set of squats, and that's it. And be okay with that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, no, that's great advice. I think generally that's 100% true. The part that the. The place I was going, when you meet people who've been very consistent with their workouts, like really consistent, you know, 15, 20, 30 years, they all have one thing in common, and that's that they, yes, they're disciplined, but they also love the workout. They love what they're doing. And so I like to encourage people, you know, because on the show, we often talk about effective workout programming, and this is what works, and do it this way. And it's all true. But the most important thing is that you're consistent so long as you're not hurting yourself and doing something that's inappropriate, appropriate. And so if there's something you like and it's fun and it's not the perfect routine, but you enjoy doing it, that's probably going to be better for you. Because it's going to help develop this relationship with fitness where you always do it. Some of the healthiest people I've ever known in fitness, these were members of gyms that I managed that were just consistent. They always seem happy. They would come in. These were people that just loved. They just love to move. And they would strength train. Sometimes they would do cardio, other times I wouldn't see them. They'd come back. Where were you? Oh, I did this hiking trip or I go surfing. That's the key to longevity with this is to really learn how to enjoy it and enjoy the process and then you won't want to stop doing that. But that means A, learn how to enjoy it and B, also don't think that because I have to do this perfect routine, I can't do this other thing I enjoy. Go ahead and do the thing that you, that you enjoy. I've never just, you know, discouraged someone who says, hey, I like salsa dancing. Can I do that as part of my workout? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Have fun. Do it.

[Justin Andrews]

Cha cha away, buddy.

[Sal DeStefano]

Totally. Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. We'll see you. It's mindpumpmedia.

[Doug]

Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy and and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB super [e-mail] the RGB Super Bundle includes Maps, Anabolic Maps, Performance and Maps Aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and all over 200 videos. The RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee and you can get it now. Plus other valuable free [e-mail] if you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review on itunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is Mind Pumpkin.