← Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth
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- [00:00]
Sal DeStefano
If you want to pump your body.
- [00:02]
Troy
And expand your mind, there's only one place to go.
- [00:06]
Justin Andrews
Mind Pump.
- [00:07]
Troy
Mind Pump.
- [00:08]
Adam Schafer
With your hosts Sal Destefano, Adam Schaefer.
- [00:12]
Justin Andrews
And Justin Andrews, you just found the most downloaded fitness, health and entertainment podcast in the history of the world. This is Mind Pump. In today's episode, we coached people on air. So people called in, we got to help them out right here live. But this was after the introduction in the intro portion, which was 63 minutes long. We talked about fat loss and muscle gain, diet, everything, fitness related, plus current events and family life. Always a good time. By the way, if you want to be on an episode like this where you call in, submit your question to mplivecaller.com now this episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Caldera Lab skincare. Products that are all natural and have been shown in studies to improve the appearance of skin in a very short period of time, over 93% of the time. This totally changed my mind when it came to skincare. Go check them out. Go to calderalab.com mindpump use the code mindpump20 get 20% off. This episode is also brought to you by Legion. They make high performance supplements for fat loss, muscle gain, endurance strength. Today we talked about their core creatine gummies, but they have many, many other products and if you go through our link, you'll get a discount. Go to buylegion.com mindpump Use the code mindpump. You buy one, get one 50% off if you're a new customer. If you're a returning customer, you get 20% cash back. Also, new program maps 15 symmetry. If you want to balance the body out, develop an aesthetic body that is symmetrical. Get maps 15 symmetry. It's 15 minutes a day. That's it. 15 minutes a day. Two lifts a day and you get an incredible physique and it's 50% off. Go to 15 symmetry.com, that's 15 symmetry.com. use the code December50. That's December5.0 for the 50% off discount. All right, real quick.
- [02:02]
Unknown Female Host
If you love us like we love you, why not show it by rocking one of our shirts, hats, mugs or training gear over@mypumpstore.com I'm talking right now. Hit pause, head on over to mypumpstore.com that's it.
- [02:15]
Adam Schafer
Enjoy the rest of the show.
- [02:16]
Justin Andrews
All right, let's talk about fat loss. Everybody's interested in getting leaner, but did you know that over a two week period, maybe Three, you can accelerate the process. Now, this isn't a long term strategy, but you can make things happen much faster in a short period of time. There's actually five ways we have found that actually do this. We're gonna talk about them today. Let's get into it.
- [02:38]
Adam Schafer
Curious how you nailed this down to five right here.
- [02:40]
Justin Andrews
Yeah, well, there's a few ways. Right. But these are the ways that I've used and I know we've talked about the software, these are strategies we've used with clients.
- [02:48]
Adam Schafer
Now is this based off of research or just our own personal experience? What we've used as far as a little of both.
- [02:55]
Justin Andrews
It's hard to find research on something like this. A lot of this is based off of what you'll find in particular competitors like bodybuilders. Okay.
- [03:06]
Adam Schafer
I was gonna say, because when I saw, I looked at it and I was like, okay, these, I totally agree with these, but I don't know if you found data to support what, what you're about to say.
- [03:16]
Justin Andrews
At best, the data suggests that this works. Now the issue is it's not a long term strategy. So, and, and here's why bodybuilders will do some of these strategies is they're so lean that an acceleration of fat loss over two weeks with the bodybuilder is visible. Yeah, the average person, you know, if you're trying to lose 50 pounds, it's not going to make that big of a difference. But if you're getting there and you're getting close to your goal and let's say you got something coming up or you want to see what you could do over a concentrated, you know, 14 day period, maybe 21 day period, you can incorporate some of these things and you'll see fat loss accelerate. You'll see it happen faster.
- [03:52]
Unknown Female Host
Yeah, I think this is one of those where you've put all the work.
- [03:55]
Justin Andrews
In and this is not substituting.
- [03:57]
Unknown Female Host
No, no, no. This is, this is the last kind of sharpening techniques.
- [04:02]
Adam Schafer
I think there's something more there too with what you said about like relating this to somebody who maybe has to lose like 50 pounds versus maybe somebody who's closer to getting to their final goal. Because what tends to happen with someone has, who has to lose, you know, a significant amount of body fat is they actually do too much of stuff like this too fast and it kind of shoots himself in the foot. And so this is not a, a long term strategy or, or in particular all these. What is what I would recommend to somebody on. Although some of them are Strategies that I think I use even with that person. And when we get through them, I'll explain. Like, this is where I still would use this. For somebody who's 50, for example, your very first one, I think is a good strategy for kind of all people.
- [04:50]
Justin Andrews
I agree.
- [04:50]
Adam Schafer
I think this is just a healthier, better balance way of eating.
- [04:54]
Justin Andrews
Yeah. So the first one is undulating your calories. So what we mean by that is typically when you talk about fat loss, obviously you have to be in a caloric deficit, meaning you have to take in less energy or less calories and your body's burning. If that doesn't happen, you're not going to lose body fat. Okay, now, it's more complicated than that. Right. Because your body can deal with the deficit by paring muscle down, which we've talked about many, many times. It could cause you to become less active to make up the difference. But at the end of the day, there has to be a deficit, Otherwise your body will not burn calories from itself. In other words, it won't get rid of body fat. So that has to happen. And so typically, the standard approach is to have this kind of consistent deficit. And so what this would look like, and I'll just for argument's sake, is let's say your body's burning 3,000 calories a day. You're exercising, you got a good, fast, roaring metabolism. So you're like, okay, I'm going to put myself at a 500 calorie deficit every day, so I'm going to eat 2,500 calories every day.
- [05:55]
Adam Schafer
Right.
- [05:55]
Justin Andrews
That's one approach. That's the standard approach. But in my experience, undulating calories has lots of different benefits, one of which being, in my experience, accelerated fat loss. And so what this tends to look like, and bodybuilders have done this for a long time. Bodybuilders call this, you know, refeed days or higher carb days or whatever, where some days they're not at a deficit. In fact, some days they might even be at a slight surplus. But other days the deficit's much larger than the 500. Ultimately, it averages out to about the same. So if you're looking at 3,500 calories of a deficit over a week, that'd be 500 a day instead of it being 500 every day. One day might be zero, the next day might be 1,000, the next day might be plus 200, the next day maybe down 700. And so the calories are going up and down, but some days are real low. Calories, some days are higher. And typically people will time the higher calories around workouts to fuel their training. Now to what you're saying, Adam, I like this as a long term approach as well because it mirrors real life.
- [07:02]
Adam Schafer
Not only does it mirror real life, but there has to be something. And this is theory, right? Because I don't have the proof on this. But it's like we do have an understanding of, somewhat of an understanding around meta. Metabolic adaptation.
- [07:15]
Justin Andrews
Yes.
- [07:16]
Adam Schafer
Where if you, let's say someone just, let's use that 3,000 calorie person and let's say they just eat 2,000 calories every single day consistently for a long time, eventually what ends up happening is the body gets metabolically adapted to that new calorie.
- [07:29]
Justin Andrews
Absolutely. Otherwise you would die.
- [07:32]
Adam Schafer
And then the fat loss slows or stops completely. And so then you need to either, you know, either reverse diet or increase activity or whatever to create a larger deficit. But nonetheless, what we call that is it's not a broken metabolism. It's. It's your metabolism is adapting to this new calorie intake. So based off of that, that understanding, it makes sense that undulating it would slow that process down or keep that from happening as fast. Right. I mean, so instead of it just being this 2500 calories every single day, and then again, these are all very hypothetical numbers. You know, five weeks down the road, my body is now adapted to 2,500 calories. If I'm having some days where I'm at 3,000 and then 27, then 2,000 this night, it makes sense to me that it would be your body is less likely to adapt to a set amount because you're having this fluctuation so much.
- [08:30]
Justin Andrews
Agreed. And that's exactly, that's the theory. And that's how, how in my experience, it feels.
- [08:36]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [08:37]
Justin Andrews
Because one of the ways your body. So you said metabolic adaptation. That's a phrase that encompasses an incredibly complex thing that happens. So your body burns less calories. Cool. How is it doing that? Oh boy. There's a lot of things that happen there. Compare muscle down. Your body becomes less or more efficient with how it utilizes calories. It'll influence you to move less in ways you might not even perceive. They've done studies where they'll drop calories and they just see people moving less. Like they're, they're shaking their leg less or they take a few less steps or they sit a little more. It can influence your hunger to try to make up the difference. There's all these things that have hormones can get affected. But what, what I think tends to happen when you have a real low calorie and then you eat, you have a refeed, you feel that energy, you feel that strength, you move more, you maybe your intensity goes up, your hormones aren't as affected. And I don't think your body is as afraid of the lower calorie because it just got higher calories. And to me, this makes sense because it not only mirrors real life, this mirrors how humans have probably always eaten. I guarantee you it was a lot.
- [09:44]
Unknown Female Host
Harder to get food back in the day.
- [09:45]
Justin Andrews
And when we did, we did.
- [09:46]
Adam Schafer
And we most certainly weren't weighing and measuring it out to the exact calorie amount.
- [09:50]
Unknown Female Host
You make a kill and you have to eat it then, you know, and so you'd feast and then there'd be bits of famine in between, but you'd always like, you'd have like intermittent bouts of big amounts of calories.
- [10:02]
Justin Andrews
Totally.
- [10:02]
Adam Schafer
And then, and then to, to elaborate on your point of what mirrors real lifestyle and I've just found this is that there's certain days where you're less hungry and you're more hungry.
- [10:11]
Justin Andrews
That's right.
- [10:12]
Adam Schafer
Example that for me is like, man, I just, this has happened the other day and Katrina was like teasing me. She's like, oh my God, you're eating again. You're so. I'm like, man, I, I trained legs hard the day before and whenever I have like a good heavy leg session day the day before, man, the next day, I just feel like fuel up and it just again makes logical sense to me. I just, I just had trained them really hard. There's a lot of recovery process. They're big muscles. There's probably a lot of demand. My body is naturally going, we need more calories. And I allow it go, all right, let's feed. You know what I'm saying? And then, then the next day, for example, after that was the, what I would have called either an off day or a very low intensity day. I came in and touched up arms buys and tries. Real life wasn't. The appetite wasn't there. And so it's just like, hey, I don't, my body doesn't feel like it needs a ton, a bunch more calories. So it's, it was a more moderate to lower calorie day. So I really find that, you know, in, in even when I undulate, I don't even go planned underlay. I don't go, oh, this day I'm going to do 3,000. Because I think Sometimes when we talk about this, people go like, okay, well then I'll, I'll make this day 2900 and I'll make this day 2100, I'll make this. And because the guys say that's the way to go, it's like, honestly like if you just, you say, yeah, feel it out and go, you know, or days like when, you know, you're just not moving a lot. So like on a weekend where, you know, especially now coming the holidays, it was raining. There was a couple times where Max and I were just building Legos and watching, watching cartoons and stuff. It was like, man, that I didn't move very much today. It was a really low calorie day for me because my body wasn't expending a lot. Instead of like saying that oh, this was supposed to be my 2900 calorie day, it's like, just allow that natural undulation. I think the biggest thing though, to always remember or that I, that I find I still have to focus on when you undulate like that is obviously on those lower calorie days, it becomes significantly more difficult at the protein. So there has to be.
- [12:07]
Justin Andrews
Protein should be consistent, right?
- [12:08]
Adam Schafer
There should be said that there needs to be a really strong emphasis on still go after that protein. But maybe I choose lower calorie foods or maybe I'm on the lower end of my protein but still getting what my body needs versus the days where I'm higher.
- [12:23]
Justin Andrews
I'm glad you said that because protein doesn't really get stored. That's right. So that's. Yeah, a good point. Next up, go real low carb. Real low carb in many cases seems to accelerate fat loss. You definitely lose more water and it does tend to blunt appetite in many people. So typically we'll make up the low carb with some more fat intake. It's short lived, but again, this is a bodybuilder trick. You could, you know, you could literally do two weeks of under 50 grams of carbs. I don't think it's a good idea to go that low all the time. Except for certain circumstances where maybe these are medical situation or gut health. Sometimes this will help people. But just for pure fat loss, do like a week or two of this and then go back to normal. And you could do this intermittently. You know, you could do this every three or four months. You have like a one week of very, very low carbohydrates. Now why does this accelerate fat loss? It tends to drop calories. It tends to really drop calories your appetite tends to go down when you're eating just fats and proteins. And so this again, this is an old school tip, but I found this to be just a really fast way to kind of accelerate the definition at the very least that you'll see in the mirror.
- [13:40]
Adam Schafer
I love sharing about this because I, I played a lot around with like different types of carb cycling and, and when I was competing and so, and I in there's, there's no like real wrong or right way. You just gave an example of running it for a couple weeks. Their traditional bodybuilders will run a low, medium high day. Low, medium high day. And that's then they'll cycle that way. I found I would just stay low carb for two, three, sometimes four days and then refeed and again going off of how I felt like I was like, I'd really try and keep it low carb for a few good days in a row, at least two to three days in a row, if not four or five sometimes. And then when I felt like my body was really needing more calories and I give it that kind of high carb day and then I go right back to that. A lot of people I think that want to try this over complicated like, well, how many grams should my carbs be? And this. And bodybuilding can take it to that, that, that level where they're very, very like if you asked our, our buddy Johnny, who's always, you know, getting ready for a show, he's probably got it down to I do 50 grams of carbs on this day, then I do 75 on this day.
- [14:51]
Justin Andrews
And he's got it to a number.
- [14:52]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, yeah. So he's got it to a number like that. I was just like, okay, I'm gonna try and stay at like 50 grams of carbs or lower for like 3, 4 days in a row. And then on that, that day, the next, next time I was reef, I would refeed and eat a lot of carbohydrates and let myself come all the way back up to a maintenance or even maybe a surplus. And that just worked really, really well for me. And it wasn't, I didn't have to get so granular where I was like, oh, I, I can only have this much on each day to where you're trying to calculate each food. It's just like, no, I'm gonna stay low carb for a good three days in a row. And then day four, I'm gonna give myself a high carb day and cycle like that and, and then again it naturally brings those calories down and so the average of the week ends up being lower found. Worked really, really well.
- [15:34]
Unknown Female Host
Yeah, I love it for the performance benefits and I try to keep low carb as, as long as, as possible. And then you go to refeed and it's like turbocharging, especially on the super intense days that you have kind of planned and scheduled out. So the majority of the time I'm trying to kind of stay very low and then intermittently kind of bring it in and then base it off of that like intensity factor.
- [15:56]
Justin Andrews
Yeah, for me, I know what it feels like to be in ketosis. So I'll go low carb and then I'll feel myself in ketosis. Then I'll stay there for a couple days, then I'll refeed and just kind of play like that. Next up, you could drop your calories really low for a short period of time and studies will show that minimal muscle loss will happen. But this is short. Okay, so this is like one week or less. Yeah, usually a few days. So if your Target calories are 2,500, you go 1,000. You can go 1,000 calories for three, four days and then go right back to where you were before. In fact, I suggest the next day when you're coming off to go higher than you normally would and then go back to your normal calories and you'll get a little bump, an acceleration in fat loss. This, I will say this one caveat is if you're calories are really low anyway, don't do this. If you're a woman listening to this and you're at 1300 calories, don't do this.
- [16:53]
Adam Schafer
Well, I would add another caveat to that, which is that if you are also somebody who already struggles with hitting protein intake, this makes it exponentially more difficult. You're not going to get your protein. For most people, depending on your size, you're not going to get a thousand calories. You're not going to get enough protein through a thousand calories. So if you're already somebody who has a hard time hitting protein and then you now you stretch two, three, four days or more in a row of thousand calorie days of extremely low protein. Now you're just setting yourself up for, yeah, you might lose some weight, but you're probably also going to pare down some muscle during that process. So this, to me, like this, this is like where you're at in your diet. I could, I feel like if I was training you nutritionally, I could do this to you.
- [17:35]
Justin Andrews
Yeah. My calories so high.
- [17:36]
Adam Schafer
You're so high in calories, you eat a lot of protein consistently. So three days of thousand calories a year would do nothing. Like you're, you're not going to pare down a bunch of muscle. You're just going to see the leaning out benefits of it. Be difficult food wise. But you are somebody who would be an example of a client that I could do that with. Most people because they struggle with getting enough or the point you made are already pretty low calorie. They hear that and they go, okay, I'll just cut down, starve. Yeah, not a good idea.
- [18:05]
Justin Andrews
Not a good idea. Next up, 48 hour fast. So again, you want to be in a healthy place to do this now, the 48 hour fast, here's why. This accelerates fat loss. Okay, yes, you're not taking any calories for two days. That's part of it. But really, it resets a lot of your cravings. It resets your connections to food, your gut, your gut health. Your inflammation goes down. I don't think it's a good idea to work out on this. This is not a 48 hour fast plus workout. That's a bad idea. It's 48 hour fast and chill. But this for many people, in particular people who are afraid to skip meals. You know who you are, you're like, I got to eat every three hours. I can't miss this. I can't miss that. You know, this can do work wonders for helping you kind of break some chains to the kinds of foods that you're eating. Here's a good example of it. You know, this is the kind of person that I'm talking to with this. If you're that person where noon comes around, you're like, oh, I better eat, otherwise I'm going to get annoyed. You probably would benefit from doing a fast because you're probably connecting time to food, not necessarily to hunger. This was definitely me. This would benefit me. For example, if I did a 48 hour fast, I'd come out of it with a better relationship to food. Now, if you starve yourself all the time, yeah, probably not a good idea.
- [19:21]
Unknown Female Host
In other words, snacker, you're always having to have something.
- [19:24]
Justin Andrews
Yes.
- [19:24]
Adam Schafer
This was my favorite thing. I've shared this before on the podcast to do with my competitors. Most competitors have.
- [19:29]
Justin Andrews
I bet they were so scared too.
- [19:30]
Adam Schafer
Oh, terrified, terrified. Which is why I made him do it. It was because I knew that most, not all, but most competitors have some level of Orthorexia or not. And so that client who feels like they can't go two hours without eating a meal and hitting it and fear of their muscles going to fall off their body, it's, it's a good practice for them to, to go through that and actually realize that you're going to be just fine. In fact, there's incredible health benefits for you doing that. And so those are typically the clients that I use a strategy like this. Again, most people that are on the fat loss journey don't hit enough protein consistently under eat calories and we have the reverse item. This strategy tends to work better with the, you know, I never miss a meal every two hours type of person.
- [20:19]
Justin Andrews
Or like Justin said, always got a snack. Always.
- [20:22]
Adam Schafer
Yes. Yeah, yeah. Someone like that who needs to break the chains of their relationship with food and, and they haven't learned how to distinguish between cravings and hunger. This helps teach that. And so that's where this is really valuable.
- [20:34]
Justin Andrews
Totally. Alright. And last, you want to increase your activity. Duh. But here's how you don't do this. So you do this over a two week period. And oftentimes when people are trying to accelerate fat loss through activity, they just go jump on a bunch of cardio, they go run, they go do some lots of intense activity. Which there's nothing necessarily wrong with that if you want to build endurance and stamina. But the intensity of it tends to overstress the body and it tends to promote a down pairing of muscle as you start to train for endurance. Here's a better way to do this. Just double your steps so you dramatically increase your activity. But it's a very low intensity leisure type of activity. Requires minimal recovery, it's minimal stress on the body. This is great for people who average 6,000, 7,000 steps a day. Track your steps. Six, 7,000 steps a day is not bad. Okay, 8,000 steps typically the target. But let's say you're hitting six, seven a day. Get your tracker. I'm going to hit you know, 14,000 steps a day. Do that for two weeks and you'll see an acceleration.
- [21:34]
Unknown Female Host
Yeah, you just up, you're active, you're more productive. It's, it's just that like you're not trying to really feel the impact of it quite as much as you would like doing cardio and a long intense session. It's spread out throughout the day and it's, it's just one of those things. Like you notice I sit a lot during this period here. I, you know, I don't move around. I don't. There's a lot of things kind of hanging over you. And this is just a great way to kind of attack all these things while getting the benefit.
- [22:00]
Adam Schafer
There's another compounding benefit to this that just recently I've been. I've been talking to one of my family members about their activity level. And everybody knows that I've been closely tracking my sleep lately because of everything that I went through. And there's something that I kind of connected the dots with just recently that I think is really powerful. And I think a lot of people can relate to this. And if you've never really paid attention to this, try paying attention to this. We're not the only ones that have jobs where we sit a lot at a desk or in a podcast or a studio like this. And for most of human existence, we moved physically all day long.
- [22:42]
Justin Andrews
Unless you were sick.
- [22:43]
Adam Schafer
Right.
- [22:44]
Unknown Female Host
We're built to do that.
- [22:45]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, we are. And I think that has a massive impact on how well you sleep. Sleep not. I mean, obviously strength training, people have a dash that. But even just moving, our bodies were meant to move for that many steps or more every single day. And I think sometimes just doing that ends up making sleep so much better. So maybe you're only trained like because we tend to recommend like a three day full body routine for most people. But then the rest of the days, if you're still, if you're going, you're strength training three days a week, which is great, but then you're only moving four to 6,000 steps on the other days. And just you simply getting that up over 10,000 steps. Watch the impact that it makes on your quality of your sleep. And the quality of your sleep makes a huge impact on your recovery and your strength and building muscle and all these other things. And so I think that that's another huge benefit to this is not just the fact that weight loss. I think it's a compounding effect because it naturally also improves sleep.
- [23:40]
Justin Andrews
You know what's funny about what you said, Adam, is any parent knows exactly what I'm talking about. You know what happens when your kids are sitting down all day and then it's time for bed? They don't want to go to sleep. And somehow we think we're different. Now the difference is an adult, you don't cry and expect someone to come help you, which is why you just stay in bed and you have insomnia, you keep waking up. We're the same.
- [24:02]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [24:03]
Justin Andrews
So, like, I know for me, when I'm with my kids all day long on those days we don't work. Like, I get them to move and when I do, they go to bed. So nice.
- [24:10]
Adam Schafer
They say such a huge difference.
- [24:12]
Justin Andrews
Oh, my God, if it's raining outside and we end up doing nothing, nothing all day long, try to get the kids to go to sleep. It's so different.
- [24:19]
Adam Schafer
Attitude changes, how well they sleep when they go. I mean, all those. And you're right, that's. There's such an good example. Like we're, we're no different. We just have. We've learned to regulate our emotions.
- [24:29]
Justin Andrews
Yeah.
- [24:29]
Adam Schafer
So instead of throwing tangents. Yeah. Yeah. So instead, instead we call it like, oh, I got a busy mind. Oh. But yeah, what it is is that my, my brain might be going all day long, but my body hasn't been. And so I don't have that same physical exhaustion that you should have at the end of the day. And so I think that this is, is such a huge hack for not just is weight loss, but of course the extra benefits that you get by improving sleep. And we talk about how important sleep is and so. And it says something again. I've really, really noticed what an impact it's, it's made on myself right now with struggling with my sleep. Like, really go. I've, I've actually, you know, we're the anti or non cardio guys. I've been doing a lot more cardio a day and it's low level, it's less so it's like walking or elliptical type movements. I'm not doing strenuous, but it's really just to get this. I need to get the energy out and yeah, I need to get that energy out. I need to get the steps up and movement up for the day in order for me to improve that sleep. And it's made a big difference.
- [25:27]
Justin Andrews
All right, I'm going to switch gears here. I saw this clip. I won't get too, too detailed, but I saw this clip where these coaches were talking about how people, these are fitness coaches, how people are using AI to coach them through fitness and nutrition. And so I think it's important that we address this because I don't think this is happening a lot, but it will, it will happen.
- [25:51]
Unknown Female Host
Sure.
- [25:51]
Justin Andrews
And I think it's a terrible idea. For the same reasons why many states, I think there's now a few states and many, many more who've now put this like they're gonna start legislating this for the same reasons why many states have made it illegal to use AI for therapy. It's a terrible coach and trainer. Now, what you'll get from AI are do this, do that. But what makes a coach effective? You talk to any coach, any personal trainer who's successful, who's been doing it for five, 10 years, who has a good business, whose clients don't leave, who does good. You ask them what makes you successful, and I guarantee you won't make the top 20 list is, oh, I just tell my clients the right stuff to do. That's not what makes you a good coach. What makes you a good coach is you coach.
- [26:37]
Unknown Female Host
Reinforcement bias.
- [26:39]
Justin Andrews
Yes.
- [26:40]
Unknown Female Host
Yeah, you're gonna. You're gonna ask it certain questions that you want to steer it in a certain direction because you have your own tendencies and things you like. And so it's gonna feed you exactly what you think you want. And it's not necessarily, like, what you need to be working on. So it's.
- [26:57]
Justin Andrews
It's.
- [26:58]
Unknown Female Host
I think it's. It's alluring, you know, and it's something that people are, like, really interested in because it seems like it's just like a genie. It's like it's gonna give you everything that you're hoping for, and it's not playing out like that at all. And I think people are not cautious about it at all.
- [27:11]
Justin Andrews
Terrible.
- [27:12]
Adam Schafer
Super interesting you went this way. So I shared a text with you guys on Christmas Eve because Josh was in here, Eli was in here, Kyle was in here all day working and stuff, and I got to spend some really good time with them. This happened to be the discussion. And what I actually said that I think is going to happen is it's going to grow. There's going to be a lot of it. And I think there's going to be a very clear divide because AI it's going to give the ability for these services to be unbelievably cheap. You're going to be able to get an AI coach for some 20amonth subscription or something like that at some point, free. And the reason why this came up was because there's a lot of things on the back end that we use AI for. And one of the things that Josh just recently built, he built AI Sal. And it's in. It's actually. It's actually really cool. It's really, really cool. And I was actually really impressed with it. And we were discussing, like, how far do we take this? And there was a little bit of debate. And one of the things that I told Kyle and Eli is that, listen, I'm fully on board with us utilizing some of the benefits and the tools of AI. But I want you guys to keep in mind that as we are building like it's like we're building a new company or a new business right now with the trainer side. It's, it's unique, it's different than what we have done for the last nine years. And so one of the core values that I think all the owners, I think you guys agree on is that why we're moving into this space is because we understand the, the importance and the value of personal touch and connection to human humans in this new AI world that we're heading into. So if you imagine that's our core value as these, all these opportunities to use AI within our business approach itself, don't ever forget that that's what we value more. And so AI Sal might be able to do some of these things for us in on this side of the business. But I never want it to be the thing that is the relationship with the client just so we can make a buck. I said I want us to always keep that in mind.
- [29:29]
Unknown Female Host
It's back end, it's not front end facing.
- [29:31]
Adam Schafer
Yes. And so, so, and so it made, it made the decision really clear because again like I said, this thing was really, really cool. And it's like now this would be a really cool tool to use to then qualify people that would potentially be real clients and stuff like that and help maybe somebody who can't afford personal training or do that personal touch like that. And so it ha. We can use it as an aspect of the business but really our focus is on people that value human connection, people that want that personal touch. Because there is going to be a very clear divide. There is going to be people that will opt for an inferior less human touch, less human connection for just bottom line, this cheaps and it helps me do something versus someone who's like, you know what? Like I really value that human connection.
- [30:19]
Justin Andrews
Look, look, here's the bottom line with this. The your success as a coach. First off, there's a bar, there's a bottom bar. Okay? Yeah. You better know the right stuff to do. You better know diet to an extent. Exercise technique, biomechanics, workout programming, like all the things that people say, you know, coaches like that's the bar, that's the bottom. You guys, if you don't know that stuff like don't be a trainer. So that's it, that's the bottom. Now what makes a trainer that's good is can the client relate to you that's it. Now that's not just it. That's very hard thing to do. But can they relate to you and do they trust you? The best thing AI can do is fool you into that. Now, here's the thing. You know, you're talking to AI if you're working with an AI code, even if it fools you, at the end of the day, you know it's not a human. It's never going to be as effective unless you go into it never knowing it's AI and you're completely fooled, in which case, I don't know, we could still make some arguments, but I know this is a co. I know this is from someone who coached people for two decades and who coached other trainers on how to train people. It's like, here's the deal, you better know your stuff. That's how you become a trainer. But what makes you good is do they relate, connect to you and trust you. And again, the best thing that the closest AI could get to that is to just simply fool people. But it's no different than having an AI girlfriend or boyfriend or therapist or best friend. Do you have any friends? Yeah, I have three AI friends. Those are my real friends. Is it the same, though? Can you really relate to a everlasting machine? So this is, this is the main thing. So in other words, right now, AI is not going to give you the best answers yet. But it will soon. Soon it's going to give you good answers, but it's not going to be as effective. It just is.
- [32:05]
Adam Schafer
You know, I, I don't even know if, if that's the argument I make, although I don't necessarily disagree with you. I think the argument that I would make is that we're very aware what has happened in the last, now two decades since the introduction of Facebook and iPhones and Instagram and all these social media tools. We are lonelier. Higher suicide rates, we have less friends, we have less connection, yet we're connected to more people and we understand what chemicals and stuff and bonds that are made when we're here. Right now, right now, there is a, there is a clear difference between someone that is listening through us, through a, A, you know, radio versus somebody who is listening in the room with you.
- [32:53]
Justin Andrews
Right?
- [32:54]
Adam Schafer
And so it's not as, it's not as bad. But the next level to, I think not as good would be the AI versions of us having this conversation and someone listening. And so you, you not only lose out on this, this part, but then at least the people that are listening to Real people right now get a portion of that connection. When it turns into an AI, you lose completely. It then becomes only information and data and science and answers. And we are social creatures and you don't realize the potential ramifications of what that looks like. And I think that there is already an example of that with what we saw happen with social media and Instagram. You have got more people that you're connected to, yet we are more depressed because you're not doing it in person anymore. So what happens when you lose. Even the shows that you watch on TV or the shows that you listen to on a podcast become AI generated, or the coaches that used to be a real person that's asking about your wife and kids and the days of that. And it's an AI per. It's an AI person who's asking about you because it will prompt and do all those things too. So what it's like the answers will be good. In fact, I even think the answers can get to a point where, you know, it's like, Sal, with all the data that we have, you wait till you see the one that we have. You're going to be blown away. When I can have, I can have. I. We mess with it and ask like deep personal questions and started sharing emotions. And your empathy came across right through it, like, so. But it was an AI, like you're saying. And so. And so, you know, so I think logically people will think, oh, this is great, but I think you're getting even further away from the human connection. And what we don't know is what does that look like 10, 20 years from now and what we see, because I don't, I don't think anybody saw Facebook and Instagram having those ramifications.
- [34:53]
Justin Andrews
I don't think people see, said this is going to make us more lonely.
- [34:56]
Adam Schafer
Right? But I think, I think, I think they thought it would make us more connected. They thought. I.
- [35:00]
Unknown Female Host
Cheers on the narcissistic psychopaths.
- [35:04]
Adam Schafer
Really just. I just think really, I think really lonely and depressed even. I think it's just going to exacerbate that. At least. At least the person who's the person who's connecting on Facebook and Instagram with a real person or listening to a real podcast or watching real actors, because the next one is the actors, right? I've seen said this a while ago. Like, we are this close to, you know, Tom Cruise never really acting in a movie and just selling his likeness. And then it's now a CGI version of it. And for our Entertainment purposes. What do we care?
- [35:34]
Justin Andrews
Looks similar.
- [35:34]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, it looks similar, but it's like, again now. But, you know, you're not even watching him really act anymore, so you gotta think that that's gonna have some downstream effects.
- [35:43]
Justin Andrews
You know what's funny is that this is kind of related. I think I might have sent this to you, Justin. It was like this long post about J.R.R. tolkien and C.S. lewis.
- [35:55]
Unknown Female Host
Yeah.
- [35:55]
Justin Andrews
When they went to go watch, they went to the theater to watch. It was a snow. Which one was the first? Disney. Snow White was the first. They went to go watch. So Snow White was the first animated featured film ever. Right. They put it on the big screen and everybody went. It was like this. Marvel and J.R.R. tolkien and C.S. lewis, who were great, great storytellers and writers. Right. J.R.R. tolkien wrote, you know, the Hobbit, and C.S. lewis was the. What is it? Narnia? Okay, so Lion Wish wardrobe, they went to watch it and they came out and they were just so upset. And they're like, Disney took the art of storytelling and turned it into entertainment. And so then this whole article explains what it means. So. And so here was this. This was their objection.
- [36:38]
Unknown Female Host
They missed, like, the main morals of the entire story.
- [36:40]
Justin Andrews
Here's their objections. Disney took and made everything very clear, good and bad. So there's the evil princess. She's just evil. Here's the good guy. They're just good. And so they went to explain how real storytelling talks about the complexities of life. Like name in real life, when people are all good or all. But are there people that are just pure good and pure bad?
- [37:02]
Unknown Female Host
It'd be so much easier if that was the case. You could categorize them immediately and be like, well, they're evil.
- [37:07]
Justin Andrews
Yes.
- [37:07]
Unknown Female Host
It's not that clear.
- [37:09]
Justin Andrews
No. And so they were explaining how storytelling is supposed to tell us about life and make things hard to kind of grasp and think about. Whereas Disney took the storytelling and just said, here it is very simple, very basic entertainment and teaches us. Actually, in fact, it teaches us things that aren't so great. Because you watch Disney movies as a kid and what do you think? Fall in love. How happily ever after. Evil, good, Prince Charming princess. Oh, my life isn't that way. I guess I should get divorced. Or this is what's going on. Everything's wrong. When that's not how it's. I think it was really, really interesting article.
- [37:45]
Adam Schafer
That is a really interesting discussion and debate. I've never heard that before. I mean, it makes sense because. And this is why you have Big like novel readers will always say, the book is so much better. And the reason I've always asked, like, why, why, why is it so much better? I love watching the movie. And the argument would be the character development. Because the nuances of the. The. The evil character. There's always something when they. In a redeeming in there that will. Redeeming or relatable or you have more of an understanding. Like, oh, I kind of get why maybe they're. They're bad like this. And you get a lesson in that. You get a lesson of like, oh, I could see how this could make someone.
- [38:20]
Justin Andrews
Or turn. Every hero in the Bible besides Jesus is incredibly flawed.
- [38:26]
Unknown Female Host
Yeah. Massively flawed human beings.
- [38:28]
Justin Andrews
Because they're people. You know, you read about them. Be like, oh, my God, David, you know, a man after God's heart slept with his friend's wife and then had his friend killed. Yeah. The king, you know, the first revered.
- [38:39]
Unknown Female Host
One of the most revered characters. Yeah, dude.
- [38:41]
Justin Andrews
So that's Moses, Abraham, like all of them. So anyway, I thought it was very interesting. And who is it? Jonathan Pageau talks about this because a lot of these. These fairy tales that we know are actually rooted in old stories. They just changed them to make them, you know, easy to watch. He used the example of. I think it was. Which story is it where she's given the poison apple? Is it also.
- [39:02]
Adam Schafer
Is that Sleeping Beauty.
- [39:03]
Sal DeStefano
Snow White.
- [39:04]
Adam Schafer
Snow White.
- [39:05]
Justin Andrews
And that's the one where she's like on the wall.
- [39:06]
Unknown Female Host
He did the black mirror thing with relation to the phone.
- [39:10]
Justin Andrews
Yes. But also there was one where he said in the original fairy tale, you know, she's looking in the mirror, mirror, mirror on the wall, you know, who's the fairest. And it talks about this princess that's just the most beautiful. So she gives a gift to the princess and you know what? She gives her a mirror and a brush. And you think, what does that have to do with. And she's. Because the story is showing this innocent princess the reason why she's so beautiful. Part of the reason she doesn't know. Yes. She's so beautiful. So she gives her a mirror and a brush. She's looking at herself and obsessing about her looks. That was not in any Disney fairy tale.
- [39:46]
Unknown Female Host
Such a parallel to AI too.
- [39:47]
Justin Andrews
I know.
- [39:48]
Unknown Female Host
I mean, when you think about it and, and like a lot of these old stories, you'll see stuff like that where it's like people get consumed by their own. What do you call that when they're just obsessed with themselves.
- [40:01]
Justin Andrews
Yes.
- [40:01]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [40:01]
Unknown Female Host
And it's clear, like, you know, just. Just vanity is what I'm looking for. Yeah, they get into that vanity of like, well, I look this way, people have reinforced and told me this way, and then it changes and you age, and then it just becomes this curse.
- [40:15]
Adam Schafer
So, I mean, point playing devil's advocate here a little bit. Right. Because a big part of what we do and. Or why. Why we did this was to really reach the masses. Right. One of the things we agreed when we first started this is like when we. When you. When we looked at the entire fitness space, it was like so much of an echo chamber of just, you know, obsessed fitness people talking to other obsessed fitness people about how to get in shape, which is literally like this tiny minority. And we remember, like, man, none of this conversation was the type of stuff that we were communicating to our real clients that were normal people.
- [40:49]
Justin Andrews
Right. So relate at all.
- [40:51]
Adam Schafer
So part of the success of the show has always been that, like, that that was the goal was to go after and help the 98% and really in an inform and communicate in a way that. That helped and they understood. And so coming from that perspective, you have to think that. And this is the struggle is that, you know, AI Sal, that is way inexpensive and affordable now. Gives somebody else, Gives somebody maybe the resources and tools that, you know, wouldn't have it before.
- [41:23]
Justin Andrews
Sure.
- [41:23]
Adam Schafer
And so how do you. How do you wrestle with that dichotomy of like, okay, you've got this. You've got this side of it that you think is a new, powerful force, Is evil, bad, all these things? It's not good. It's just gonna have all these ramifications downstream. But then it also now allows somebody who could never afford to get coached by you.
- [41:41]
Justin Andrews
Can I just add here, it might sound like me. It might have all the information based off of the 2,500 podcasts that we release and all the other content. But you know what? AI Style is never going to do. It's never going to tell you, hey, look, I'm. I'm done. I'm tired. Stop asking me so many questions or I got to go be my kids and my. It's not me. Yeah, it's not me.
- [42:01]
Adam Schafer
It actually won't even hang up the phone.
- [42:03]
Justin Andrews
It won't even hang up the phone.
- [42:04]
Adam Schafer
Until you say bye.
- [42:05]
Justin Andrews
You call me if you're a fan. Doug was.
- [42:09]
Adam Schafer
Doug was messing with it the whole time. Doug would just be like, okay.
- [42:12]
Justin Andrews
And then.
- [42:12]
Adam Schafer
Then he would.
- [42:13]
Justin Andrews
He'd say something else.
- [42:14]
Unknown Female Host
Love you.
- [42:14]
Adam Schafer
And then, okay. And then it just kept going.
- [42:17]
Justin Andrews
It was.
- [42:18]
Adam Schafer
It would just keep going until he finally said, okay, bye, and then it would hang.
- [42:20]
Justin Andrews
No, I think, I think there's. I think there's value in, you know, Facebook and social media. I think there's value in processed foods. They have a long shelf life. I think there's value in a lot of things that have just become abused. So, you know, I hope what it does is it gives people good information and it helps people make the decision to work with a real coach.
- [42:43]
Adam Schafer
I mean, it does.
- [42:45]
Justin Andrews
That's what I would.
- [42:46]
Adam Schafer
It does a great job. That was the point of it, or the point that I made with the boys, is that, hey, you know, I don't want this to be a coaching service. This is something that people should be able to use, utilize for free. That wouldn't be able to. And then the ones that know that they want help and coach it will be able to qualify and then direct them because we have so much traffic. And so I think it'll be a good middle for people. You know, you just.
- [43:10]
Unknown Female Host
Over the, the overseas contractors, you know, take all the phone calls normally.
- [43:15]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, you know, that's. Those are gone. Those are gone.
- [43:17]
Unknown Female Host
Yeah, they're gone. Like. Yeah, that's.
- [43:19]
Justin Andrews
Nobody cares about that.
- [43:22]
Adam Schafer
Oh, you know, you just, you just, you just highlighted something that I hadn't thought about really, too. That could also be really, like, we were. I was joking, but I'm serious. That, you know, Doug was messing with it and not hanging out the phone. Yeah. And I thought, man, you do that.
- [43:37]
Justin Andrews
To me, I'll hang up. Like in real life, dude, you call me, you call me when I'm eating dinner. I won't answer. Yeah.
- [43:44]
Adam Schafer
You know, well, how many. How many really lonely people are going to just terrible talk and talk.
- [43:51]
Justin Andrews
And you know what? God, I hate to say this. Loneliness is terrible. Okay. There's a loneliness epidemic. But you know what the feeling of loneliness can do for a lot of people? It could drive them to see Cushion.
- [44:02]
Unknown Female Host
Yeah. To. To go out there.
- [44:04]
Justin Andrews
But if you placate that feeling with false connection, you'll never get out of your house.
- [44:10]
Adam Schafer
No.
- [44:11]
Justin Andrews
Like pornography would do to a teenage boy who they're going to. Talking to girls.
- [44:16]
Adam Schafer
They're going to sell it to people that it's. It's better than that. Right. So it's like you're going to sell it to people that it's better than being lonely. Like, hey, you can talk to AI Sal for eight hours straight if you want. You know what I'm saying? And he's really nice and empathetic and answers all your questions. He's brilliant.
- [44:36]
Unknown Female Host
We like experimenting with you first.
- [44:37]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, I know we did. I mean, there's, you know, why you talk so much, bro. There's way more. There's way more data.
- [44:41]
Justin Andrews
Are you guys trying to replace.
- [44:43]
Adam Schafer
We try to do.
- [44:43]
Justin Andrews
AI Justin.
- [44:44]
Adam Schafer
It was just like one liners.
- [44:45]
Justin Andrews
What do you want?
- [44:46]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, this is not gonna work.
- [44:49]
Unknown Female Host
Just eat better.
- [44:50]
Adam Schafer
They might had all these like spelling errors.
- [44:55]
Lorraine
Me.
- [44:55]
Justin Andrews
Yeah, mine was too. Mine was too direct. That's cuz you're fat.
- [45:01]
Adam Schafer
Yeah. Yeah, yours was hella good.
- [45:04]
Justin Andrews
Dude.
- [45:04]
Adam Schafer
It's.
- [45:04]
Justin Andrews
I can't wait for you to hear it.
- [45:05]
Adam Schafer
Like, it's.
- [45:06]
Justin Andrews
It's really. I should. I'm gonna have it call my wife.
- [45:07]
Adam Schafer
I will.
- [45:08]
Justin Andrews
Telling her. I will, you know, just listen on the other end.
- [45:11]
Adam Schafer
Well, you have to. So you have to do like duck to really appreciate how good it is. You have to do like what Doug did. Like I, I, I told my family about it and I asked poor Josh on. I think it was like on Christmas day. I'm. I'm bugging this guy. Hey, send it over to me. I want to show my family. So he sent it and I gave it to them. And they were like, they were so lame with it. You know, I'm like, no challenge. Yeah, they were just so, like, simple. Yes, no, quite. I'm like, no, no. Like, like, like Doug really was like talking about like, oh, I'm really struggling with my butt and I, you know, I don't know what to do. And you know, it makes I feel insecure. Like he was talking about us. Like he was sharing like a person.
- [45:45]
Justin Andrews
Send me a picture.
- [45:48]
Adam Schafer
And it did. It did such a good job of. Of communicating to them, by the way.
- [45:53]
Sal DeStefano
You're very empathetic.
- [45:54]
Adam Schafer
You are very, very, very much so. Like it. It does. I mean, let me tell you, listening to will be better than 90. I'm going to say 95% of all sales closers.
- [46:08]
Justin Andrews
Oh, I see.
- [46:09]
Adam Schafer
The, the way it. It. The way it tied down, the way it asks questions, the way it. Oh, dude, it was. It's. It's programmed really well that I. If you, if someone's in phone sales right now, I'd be dropping applications places because it's. It. Someone's gonna program it to do stuff like that. It'll be so much. Yeah.
- [46:30]
Justin Andrews
So weird.
- [46:30]
Troy
Yeah.
- [46:31]
Justin Andrews
We were speaking earlier of. Of mirrors and stuff. I gotta tell you guys, this, this here's a testament to our partners at caldera lab. So we had our, our 10 year anniversary Christmas party and we had family and friends come and my cousin Sep came with his wife Sarah. Love them. My cousin Sep and I are very, very close. So he's always invited and he's come to most of them. So he shows up, they come and hang out and then they left with their gift bag. So we give special guests and friends gift bags when they leave. What's in there typically is a gift and maybe some, some stuff from our partners. He had never used Caldera lab and now my, my cousin is not like, I'm going to put stuff on my face kind of guy. He just didn't even think about it. Just like me. I wasn't like that until we worked with him, right? So I go up there on Chris. I went up there on Christmas and we're hanging out and we go to the gym together. We go do a workout. It was the day after and, and we were talking about peptides or something like that. He's like, oh, I gotta tell you, I really like the face stuff. He just said face stuff that's in there. I'm like. And I forgot what we put on, like caldera. He's like, yeah, caldera lab. He's like, dude, I love it. I could tell a big difference. I'm like, bro, you're using face cream. They're so effective. They work so well.
- [47:44]
Adam Schafer
It does.
- [47:45]
Justin Andrews
It got my cousin.
- [47:46]
Adam Schafer
It was, it was.
- [47:47]
Justin Andrews
He's going to buy, he's going to keep buying it.
- [47:48]
Adam Schafer
It's the number one. It was the number one thing in the gift bag. It was the number one thing in the gift bag that people that. I mean, I got a text message from somebody who's just like, hey, I'm, I'm picking up some of that Caldera Lab. I want to know, do you guys have a link or whatever? I sent them over the partners thing to go through that, that book, but that smart on them, shout out to them for doing that. I mean they supplied a hundred people all that stuff. So that's a.
- [48:11]
Justin Andrews
Every person I've talked to is going to buy more.
- [48:13]
Adam Schafer
I know. So me too. So smart on them. That was a major investment for them to do that. I surprised the hell out of me that, that they did that. Katrina told me that like the, like the last week heading in, she's like, dude, you know Calder lab.
- [48:25]
Unknown Female Host
Well, they have to know that's how it works, right? It's like you got to apply it. Once you actually use it, it just basically sells itself.
- [48:31]
Adam Schafer
I mean, to me that's The. That's what made that product so good, was that you can be somebody who's not into that. I think all of us were not that person. And you apply it one time and you can feel and see a difference. And it's just like, those are the products that just. They sell themselves.
- [48:46]
Justin Andrews
It doesn't.
- [48:47]
Adam Schafer
Doesn't require you.
- [48:47]
Justin Andrews
Speaking of friends and stuff. So Gabrielle Lyon. Is this her first event? She's putting.
- [48:52]
Adam Schafer
No, no, she's done this before.
- [48:53]
Justin Andrews
She's done this before. So I thought, okay, her forever. Strong experience, very popular. She's putting it out again January 10th, so I was in it. So she interviewed me. So I'm going to be.
- [49:02]
Adam Schafer
How was it?
- [49:03]
Justin Andrews
Yeah, it was great.
- [49:04]
Adam Schafer
Was there a specific topic or did you go, Where'd you. Where'd you go?
- [49:07]
Justin Andrews
I mean, she stuck to my wheelhouse. So strength training and improper application, you know, it's cool, too, is talking to Dr. Lyon. So she's obviously an exceptional person. Right. She's a doctor. Very, very disciplined woman also. Just a great woman, but very disciplined. She's definitely in the fitness fanatic camp. Like, she's a fitness fanatic. Okay. So her questions. I could see that her questions were challenging her a little bit because she was like, well, how many days a week do people need to work out and don't they need to do this? So I was able to kind of communicate, like, you know, well, this is what we tell people, because most people are not going to become like you or I, like fitness fanatics. And this is what the data shows. And she knows the data, so she's kind of like, oh, yeah, you're right. You know, it's a really good conversation. And she does a great job. She does such a great job. Great guests, too. Great guests on this.
- [49:58]
Sal DeStefano
Arthur Brooks Lane Norton.
- [49:59]
Adam Schafer
Where is. This Is a live stream. Is what? Or a stream. Right.
- [50:03]
Sal DeStefano
It's streaming. A virtual event. It's gonna be on January 10th. It's totally free, by the way.
- [50:07]
Justin Andrews
Yes.
- [50:08]
Sal DeStefano
So everybody should sign up for it.
- [50:09]
Justin Andrews
Yeah. It's drgabriellyon.com forever. Strong experience. So it's free for everybody.
- [50:16]
Adam Schafer
Name of that. You'll have it in the show notes, right?
- [50:19]
Justin Andrews
Yeah.
- [50:20]
Sal DeStefano
I think the spelling of Gabriel is G, A, B, R, E, L, L.
- [50:24]
Justin Andrews
E, and lion is L, Y, O, N. Yes, yes.
- [50:27]
Adam Schafer
You know, it's. It's funny.
- [50:29]
Justin Andrews
It's got. Who's that other guy? I can't. I can never remember his name. He's all over the place. The Navy SEAL dude.
- [50:34]
Sal DeStefano
Jocko.
- [50:34]
Justin Andrews
Jocko's gonna be on there too. Arthur Brooks, Jocko Lane, Norton, Me and then a bunch.
- [50:39]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, they have. She has a huge lineup. So it's a huge lineup of great guests.
- [50:42]
Justin Andrews
It'll be, it'll be really cool. She's done so much to bring strength training and high protein intake to women. So much. Because she's a woman.
- [50:55]
Adam Schafer
It's the way she's a doctor. It's the way she communicates it. I mean, her. I mean, I think she's coined the phrase unless I'm unaware that she got it from someone else. But she's the first person I ever tell people that we are not obese. We are under muscles.
- [51:10]
Justin Andrews
Yes.
- [51:11]
Adam Schafer
And that. I think that just hits like a ton of bricks when you hear that, because most people are just our society. We've been saying that, like you. You could pick 10 strangers off the street that don't work out and ask them, does America have a problem with obesity? They would all say yes. You know, they would all say overweight's a problem. Nobody. No, no. Not one of 10 would say they're.
- [51:32]
Justin Andrews
Calling it a silent epidemic because nobody knows.
- [51:34]
Adam Schafer
Yeah. And so I think that that message coming from her is such a powerful message that. And I, I've got, I've got to ask her if she's coined that because I hadn't heard anybody else say that before her, you know, talking about fitness fanatics and, you know, recommendations on training and stuff like that. I'm so glad you said that because I had actually seen a clip of our buddy Jay Campbell getting interviewed by. Oh, this, this guy. What's his. Chris. Chris Cavalini or something like that. And he's like one of them, you know, shirt off motivation hype, you know, high ticket coaching, all the. And also runs the favorite. The, the, the man camps, you know. Yeah, yeah. Yes.
- [52:26]
Justin Andrews
And dad didn't love you and slap your fat bellies. Yes.
- [52:30]
Adam Schafer
So everybody. So I don't know him personally. And so I'm careful not to say too much because too many times I've been wrong and I end up liking someone when I meet him. But this, the conversation is the point. I'm describing who he is, just so you guys know. But the thing that I think is just. Is just off that they. He asked Jay about how many, how many times a week should somebody be in the gym? And I could hear that what he was doing was kind of countering a message that I think that we talk a lot about, about how minimal it takes that you need to work out. And Jay's like, I think the average person should be, you know, four times in a week in the gym. And he's like, yeah, see average. So if you want to be average, you should be minimum of four days a week. And this is why I'm advocating. You know, I know there's a lot of people out there that you know, advocate for less than this. And that is just like, if you want to be an average person.
- [53:22]
Unknown Female Host
Mediocre.
- [53:23]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, dude. And so I was just like, I got to bring it up because I just want to. This is the, this is what drives me crazy about the people in, in that are in fitness. That.
- [53:33]
Justin Andrews
Who loves that machine, you know, who loves that message? People work out 60 days a week. Yeah, that's who he's talking to.
- [53:38]
Adam Schafer
People like, yeah, get him.
- [53:39]
Justin Andrews
Yeah, cool. Good job, dude. You got a bunch of people who work out a lot to agree with you.
- [53:43]
Adam Schafer
The people that are still massively insecure and think that fitness revolves around six pack abs and doing that and they've, and they've justified that. It's this connection to success and everything else. And very similar to the people with the 4 o' clock morning routines. And let me tell you, like, you.
- [54:03]
Unknown Female Host
Have all the paraphernalia that goes with it, right? You got to sell the outfit, you got to sell the shaker cups and you know, all the things.
- [54:10]
Adam Schafer
And what, what I think the, the reason why it's just like hamster wheel of, of like consistent reinforcement is that it's so damn difficult for everybody to ever be that person. That in fact most people will never be that person. That it leaves people believing that just like, ah, this is, that's why I'm not a millionaire. That's why I don't have those. Because I don't do what this dude does.
- [54:35]
Unknown Female Host
And it's never get in shape like that.
- [54:36]
Adam Schafer
And what, you know, pulling back the curtain for everybody who listens is that man, if you only knew how massively insecure all these people are about themselves. And that's what makes them so disciplined on that is it's this crippling insecurity of being teased when they were little or that the, the way they look in the mirror and that drive has giving that has given the same thing. It's not just the body, it works financially, it works a lot of different ways. Like, I'm fully aware that that, that's where a lot of my drive and motivation came from was not having some of those things. Same thing came with fitness was I was teased when I was like I'm very aware that that was stuff that I, that propelled me early on to get, to get to where I was going because I was so massively insecure. Those things and what you see on online are people still in the thick of it. They're still in the middle of it. And then they use all this storytelling to justify their behaviors. And it's like. But deep down they're riddled with insecurity around that. And just because somebody exerts macho and says all those things, it's like they, that's them selling themselves, that's them closing themselves, that they're so secure and they're so this. That's why I walk around my shirt off all the time, because I'm so secure. It's like, no, bro, that ain't it.
- [56:02]
Justin Andrews
That's not it, dog. That ain't.
- [56:04]
Unknown Female Host
Meanwhile, the same guy looking in the mirror every time, pinching himself.
- [56:07]
Adam Schafer
Yes, dude. So, oh my God, look at them. But everybody thinks that, that they, they want that. You don't want that. You trust me, you don't. You don't want that. What you want is to be able to be strong, be healthy, be fit, sleep well, be a present parent, father, husband, and enjoy so many other aspects of life. Enjoy the beautiful things of a good meal, a good glass of wine, a thing like that, and still be healthy. And all those things like, that's such a better way to live. And it doesn't require seven days in the gym, an hour on the StairMaster, and getting up at 4 o' clock in the morning doing six 700 push ups.
- [56:49]
Justin Andrews
It's not that running from something, dude yourself, you're not doing well.
- [56:53]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, okay, stop, dude. But I mean, it hits so many young, young, young insecure men in particular.
- [57:01]
Justin Andrews
I think for some people hearing the message of discipline is a good, is not a bad thing. Right. But the problem with our, the problem with many spaces is the people that get the air time are the extremes. And you don't necessarily. Look, you talk about billionaires, right? Who, who pops up? Elon Musk. Would you really want to trade place with him?
- [57:21]
Adam Schafer
No.
- [57:22]
Justin Andrews
Really?
- [57:22]
Adam Schafer
No.
- [57:23]
Justin Andrews
Yeah, he's super wealthy.
- [57:25]
Adam Schafer
Cool.
- [57:25]
Unknown Female Host
Yeah.
- [57:26]
Justin Andrews
But he's tormented, obviously. The guy's constantly doing something, chasing something. He'll say so himself. That's. Would I, I don't want to trade. I wouldn't want to trade with him. I'm glad Elon exists.
- [57:38]
Unknown Female Host
I've heard stories of him just like sleeping at the office, you know, when they go into these like. And he'll Just stay there for like weeks and like, not with his family. Just to make sure these things get launched.
- [57:48]
Adam Schafer
I mean, it's the same, it's the same thing. You see with these pro. There's a new documentary on Netflix on John Elway. Great. Just one of the greatest quarterbacks to play the game. Went to the super bowl five times, has two champions, two championships. Like, just incredible dude. And here he is. I think he's in his. What is he? I think late 60s now, maybe Doug. Look, I can't get his name or his age right, but you know, beautiful kids. He has three or four kids and you know, 14 years or 14 or 16 years in the league, then ends up getting the general manager and then like loses his sister, loses his. Loses his marriage and realizes how disconnected, 65 years old, how disconnected he was all those years from his family and because of his desire to, to be this great. And like, I mean, that's the part that we, we just don't tell that side of the story very much. When we see greatness like that, whether.
- [58:45]
Justin Andrews
It be, are you kidding me? Look at the, look at our idols. It's like Marilyn Monro, she's awesome. She died. She killed herself because of her lifestyle. It was terrible. You know, we look at people like this and we put them up here as these great people to emulate. Meanwhile, the silent, wonderful people out there, the moms and dads and you know, people out there, they're doing a great job raising great kids who, you know, yeah, they're not billionaires, they're not pro athletes, but they're doing a good job. They're keeping things together. You know, they're leaving a legacy. You know, I was at my uncle's funeral, you know, over the weekend, and he, you know, he was young when he died and his kids were up there speaking about him and they said the most, they said the nicest thing, you know, what they said about their dad. They said both of them said this separately. I don't have a single bad memory of my father.
- [59:39]
Adam Schafer
That's crazy.
- [59:40]
Justin Andrews
Now he's not a famous guy, he wasn't a billionaire. But you got your kid up there, your 20 year old kid who's, you know, said a lot of good things. But one thing they said. What? I don't know anybody in my life that I don't have a bad memory of. But for them to say, I don't have a single bad memory of my father, I thought that was incredible. But he's not gonna, he's not on the you know, he's not on social media with a million followers. He's not. You know, nobody knows who he is except for the people around.
- [60:04]
Adam Schafer
How would you guys describe this? Because sometimes I think what. What it comes across that. Because I think the argument the other side makes of this is like. Because I don't feel. I'm not selling balance either, because I understand. I also recognize that to do certain things, to exceed in certain areas of life, sacrifice.
- [60:23]
Justin Andrews
Yeah. But I think what you're selling is context. There's a full story here. So this guy's glorifying seven days a week in the gym, eat, superstructure, whatever. But there's another side to that. There's an unhealthy side to that, but we don't sell that. What we see is, oh, it's this body. In fact, that's the best thing. That's what's going to make me so happy. Like, no, there's more of the story. So I think it's context, I think, is what's important.
- [60:47]
Adam Schafer
Yeah. Yeah.
- [60:48]
Justin Andrews
Because I.
- [60:48]
Adam Schafer
Because I also. I also think that too. Right. Because you. You made the point of, like, I think, you know, teaching young men the importance of discipline and stuff like that. There's a. There's a lot of value to understanding. Delayed gratification, discipline, sacrifice.
- [61:04]
Justin Andrews
Totally.
- [61:04]
Adam Schafer
There's a lot of that that comes with being successful in business, in life and sports and family and all those things. And it doesn't look like this beautiful balance of, you know, a perfect pie all the time. It looks like sometimes I'm sprinting really hard in one direction. Other times I'm sprinting hard in another direction. But I'm also. And I think the. You know, what I would define the balance is I'm always checking in with myself on that.
- [61:35]
Justin Andrews
That's right.
- [61:36]
Adam Schafer
Like, it's like. And I'm also always communicating that those. I mean, Katrina and I were all discussing this, too. She was saying, you know, I. I love that you always come to me and tell me, because I just recently came to her and been like, you know, this coming year with everything we're doing is like, I'm gonna. I'm gonna need some of these days where I come home later than usual. You know, we've gotten really comfortable with me being able to pet. Pick Max up from school all the time, this and that. Like, I need you to be understanding if there's a couple times a week now where I come home really late because we have this team now that I understand the value and it's important to Me, but I won't lose. What I won't do is go all in on that and lose years of my son.
- [62:12]
Justin Andrews
Right.
- [62:13]
Adam Schafer
And year and nights with my wife. That's what I'm talking about.
- [62:16]
Justin Andrews
Context, you know.
- [62:17]
Adam Schafer
Right, right. So it's not. It's not. And so I. I guess I wanted to communicate that because I think sometimes people think that we're selling this perfect balance of, like, a little bit of everything, and it's just perfect. No, there's. There's periods right now we're in the middle of this massive transition, and so I go to my wife and I go, hey, you know, I know you're used to, not me coming home long nights. I'm gonna have a couple of those a week, probably this year coming up. And it just. I need you to. To know that. And, and that's the communication of it.
- [62:43]
Unknown Female Host
Yeah, yeah. And I think that's the. What we always try to highlight is just like, if I'm in communication with my family and, you know, my people I'm working with, and like, there's periods where we need all the attention here. And so then you let, you know, family know that, or I'm, you know, I need to spend some time. We're going to put more attention in this bucket. And it's like, that's the thing. It just shifts a lot and. And it's never, like, fully balanced, but it's like you have to just recognize where the deficits are and where you need to spend most of your attention for that period of time.
- [63:14]
Adam Schafer
Right. It's never fully balanced. And you. But you never lose sight of the imbalance.
- [63:19]
Justin Andrews
That's right.
- [63:19]
Adam Schafer
Right. So I think that's kind of like a way to say just like, it's never balanced, but you're always aware that, hey, I've been running this way for a minute, and I'm certainly not going to let you know, years go by of missing my son's important moments. And so. Or even I won't even let weeks go by. Maybe there's some. A couple days where I. I really grind that, but I'm gonna. In that week, I'm gonna make sure. So I think that's kind of what it looks like.
- [63:45]
Justin Andrews
Speaking of work, of, of running hard, you know, I've talked about this now on the show a few times, the data on high doses of creatine to erase the measurable effects of sleep deprivation. So the studies will show you could test people on cognitive tests, and you can see measurable effects of sleep deprivation and the studies giving people 20 grams of creatine erases. And I want to be clear, it doesn't mean you could do this and never get negative effects of sleep deprivation. It just means in cognitive tests, in the short term, it seems to get rid of them completely, which is pretty cool, right? It's this nice band aid. And so I've been experimenting with this especially when I'm sleep deprived. And so I'll do it with the, with the Legion creatine gummies.
- [64:31]
Unknown Female Host
Yeah.
- [64:32]
Justin Andrews
And it makes it easy because I can't do 20 grams all at once. That'll give me stomach issues. But I'll do five grams, you know, four times in the day. And it is miraculous. Yeah, it really does.
- [64:44]
Adam Schafer
You brought, you brought this up on the last time that we talked about Legion. And so I wanted to. I started since then. So it's only been like.
- [64:51]
Justin Andrews
Oh, that's right.
- [64:52]
Adam Schafer
Yeah. It's only been, I don't know, a week or so that I've been doing it. And because I've been having issues with sleep. So I reporting back. So far, so good again. You know me, I'm always skeptical to, like, feel strongly about something until, like, I feel like I have enough consistency around that and enough good and bad, like when I miss and when I don't. And so I'll. Now that I'm really actively trying to do it, I'll keep you posted on what I notice because I do have some of these nights that are rough still. I don't have all my sleep still is not back to normal yet. And so because you said that, I'm like, you know what? I really need to make a better effort of really trying to see if.
- [65:26]
Justin Andrews
It'S like four or five gummies, I think is five grams. So just do that.
- [65:30]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [65:31]
Justin Andrews
Four times.
- [65:31]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, it was four. It's four. I think is. And so I was just splitting that up four or five times a day.
- [65:36]
Justin Andrews
Makes a big difference.
- [65:36]
Unknown Female Host
You just need to try that for like jet lag and all that. Totally different time zone. Yeah, totally.
- [65:41]
Adam Schafer
I'll have to try that.
- [65:42]
Justin Andrews
Or head trauma. Here's what, here's where the study's going now is can it help with the negative effects? Yeah, like healing. So like, oh, I had a concussion. Should I. Mega dose creatine.
- [65:53]
Unknown Female Host
Interesting.
- [65:53]
Justin Andrews
Over the next couple weeks. And I would bet money. Yes. That it would make a big difference in. In how quickly you heal and the neck and the potential negatives of. Of a concussion.
- [66:03]
Adam Schafer
Nice.
- [66:05]
Justin Andrews
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- [66:45]
Sal DeStefano
Our first caller is Lorraine from South Carolina.
- [66:48]
Justin Andrews
Hi, Lorraine.
- [66:48]
Adam Schafer
How are you doing? Lorraine?
- [66:49]
Unknown Female Host
Hello.
- [66:49]
Troy
Hello.
- [66:50]
Lorraine
What's up, guys? How are you?
- [66:51]
Justin Andrews
We're good. How can we help you?
- [66:55]
Lorraine
Let me, first of all, thank you for having me. Super stoked. Let me pull up my question so I don't ramble. And just a fair warning, a little bit of it has changed, but still the problem, I guess would resume still be the same. So 41 years old, five one at the time, this was in October, 118 pounds. Current body fat percentage of 26.9. Been in the fitness industry for over 15 years. Used to compete and now I'm a trainer. I'm looking to build muscle, drop body fat and I'm having a hard time. Recently got into monitoring my metrics with a whoop band and I cannot get my HRV to go up. It keeps dropping and I weight train about three to five times a week. But because I've been monitoring with the whoop, I don't train when I'm in a low state or a red state. I don't know if you're familiar with whoop, but when my recovery says I'm low, I don't want to push myself and not train. Also been doing intuitive eating for years and years and then did an in body scan and although I look the same, my body fat went up, muscle mass went down and I realized that I'm not eating a lot of protein or enough protein, I should say. So I want to do maybe one of the maps plans, but I don't know which one because I get bored really easy because I've been doing this forever. But I don't know what to do about the hrv. And while I want to build, I want to lose fat and build muscle. So I don't know what to do.
- [68:41]
Adam Schafer
Let's connect you to the overtraining under eating. So that's why you're. You're. You're having that. So we can solve that.
- [68:46]
Justin Andrews
Yeah. Get rid of the stop, stop tracking everything your hrv. So just. Yeah, get rid of it. Let's just get you strong and let's build muscle. That's how you're going to get leaner. We're not going to get leaner by trying to get leaner. I know that sounds crazy, but for someone like you, with your experience, you probably have a tendency to over train, under eat. Let's get you strong. Maps 40 plus. Great program. It's great programming.
- [69:10]
Unknown Female Host
Or 15.
- [69:12]
Justin Andrews
Follow that. Or follow maps 15. That's another good option. Do you do cardio on top of this? Anything else?
- [69:18]
Adam Schafer
No.
- [69:18]
Savannah
God, no.
- [69:18]
Lorraine
I hate cardio.
- [69:19]
Justin Andrews
Okay.
- [69:20]
Lorraine
Cardio I do is. I walk my dogs.
- [69:22]
Adam Schafer
Good.
- [69:23]
Justin Andrews
Yeah. Let's get you strong and then let's get you eating. What's your body weight at? 118. 120.
- [69:28]
Lorraine
So now I'm at 113.
- [69:31]
Justin Andrews
Okay.
- [69:33]
Lorraine
And now my muscle, my body fat percentage. I did this the in body scan November 25th. It said my body fat percentage was 21.8 and skeletal muscle mass is 49.6.
- [69:48]
Justin Andrews
Okay. So. Yeah, you're sitting at 21 body fat.
- [69:51]
Lorraine
Yeah.
- [69:51]
Justin Andrews
Yeah. That's good.
- [69:52]
Unknown Female Host
That's good.
- [69:52]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [69:53]
Justin Andrews
You're doing good build.
- [69:54]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [69:54]
Justin Andrews
Yeah. Why you make that face?
- [69:56]
Lorraine
Because I would like to be a little. And. And I know, like, I hear it in my clients also. They. The numbers thing.
- [70:04]
Justin Andrews
Yeah.
- [70:05]
Lorraine
I would like to see it a little bit lower. Like maybe 18%.
- [70:09]
Justin Andrews
Why?
- [70:11]
Lorraine
Why? Yeah, I want to see my abs again.
- [70:14]
Justin Andrews
Yeah. Do you like your hormones? But those.
- [70:19]
Lorraine
That's the crazy thing is I just got my labs done. Not just. It was probably back in February and it was rel.
- [70:25]
Savannah
They were normal.
- [70:26]
Lorraine
They weren't. It wasn't all wacky.
- [70:28]
Adam Schafer
At 20 something percent body fat, they are.
- [70:31]
Justin Andrews
You get down to 17 body fat.
- [70:33]
Unknown Female Host
You chase that, you fix it.
- [70:34]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [70:34]
Justin Andrews
You're gonna have.
- [70:34]
Adam Schafer
Your hormones are gonna listen too. Here's if. If you were my client and we were training, I. I know I pull you kicking and screaming, but I said, I'm gonna. I'm gonna push you all the way up to like £135 and then I'm gonna bring you. Yes, I know you would. You would. But then you. Then you would love me when it's all done because then I would bring you back down to like £125. You would have the best body you've ever had. You'd be eating more than you have. You'd have that, you'd see ab, you would look good, and you definitely over. You'd be in a healthier place.
- [71:02]
Justin Andrews
Here's the way to get leaner for you. It's not to lose body muscle. If you gain some muscle, your percentage of body fat goes down automatically because it's a smaller percentage of your overall body weight. Does that make sense?
- [71:15]
Savannah
Yeah, for sure.
- [71:16]
Lorraine
I mean, I explained it to my clients all the time.
- [71:18]
Justin Andrews
If you gain muscle right now, you're going to get leaner. Don't try to lose weight. Just try to build. So go ahead.
- [71:25]
Lorraine
So I've been. That's. That's what got me to this place of really starting to track, because that's what I was trying to do. I was trying to build, build, build, because obviously, you know, big booties, but I put on muscle really, really easy. So I thought it would be easy, and it wasn't. And then when I started tracking, then I was like, shit, my fat is high and my muscle mass is low. Like, what is happening?
- [71:53]
Adam Schafer
Well, you said it.
- [71:54]
Lorraine
Progressive overload plan.
- [71:56]
Adam Schafer
You said it already, though. You weren't hitting your protein intake consistently. Yeah, that's like you're building a house with no material.
- [72:03]
Justin Andrews
What was your average protein?
- [72:04]
Adam Schafer
You could be. You could have all the great hammers, nails. No material. You can't. You can't build it.
- [72:09]
Justin Andrews
What was your average protein intake when you were tracking?
- [72:14]
Lorraine
I was probably at like 80 to 90 grams.
- [72:17]
Justin Andrews
Let's go. Let's. Let's go. 120 minimum. 100. Every day? Every day? Every day.
- [72:23]
Unknown Female Host
Consistent. Consistent.
- [72:24]
Justin Andrews
Uh, don't. And don't do the thing where you're like, it's gonna be dry chicken breast. Like, eat some fats and some carbs.
- [72:29]
Adam Schafer
Absolutely.
- [72:30]
Justin Andrews
Eat some fat and get strong. Just. Let's just get you strong. And if you're getting stronger, you're moving in the right direction, right?
- [72:37]
Lorraine
Absolutely. So then that's when I was having a problem deciding, like, well, then, which maps program should I try? Because I don't. I mean. Yeah, I don't know.
- [72:48]
Adam Schafer
How many days a week do you like going to the gym?
- [72:50]
Unknown Female Host
Like.
- [72:51]
Adam Schafer
Yeah. How many. How many days do you like. Yeah. Like to go to the gym? Not that you do. How do you, like. What do you want to go to the gym? You've made that clear.
- [72:58]
Troy
Five.
- [72:59]
Adam Schafer
Five. So, like 15?
- [73:01]
Unknown Female Host
Yep.
- [73:02]
Adam Schafer
Mass 15.
- [73:03]
Justin Andrews
Are you okay with doing two lifts a day?
- [73:05]
Adam Schafer
Not okay. You have to.
- [73:06]
Lorraine
When I heard y' all Talking about.
- [73:07]
Savannah
That, I was like, oh, that's the problem.
- [73:10]
Adam Schafer
That's the problem, though.
- [73:11]
Justin Andrews
Let's send her mass 15 muscle mommy. Okay.
- [73:14]
Adam Schafer
Yep.
- [73:14]
Justin Andrews
You said. You said booty, right?
- [73:17]
Savannah
Well, yeah.
- [73:17]
Justin Andrews
All right.
- [73:20]
Adam Schafer
And literally, with the. The calories, if you just go after the protein, we're saying, and get it from good fatty meats, chicken thighs, rib eye steaks, have some tri tip every now and then. Sam, like, enjoy fattier cuts meat, it'll take care of the calories. So you don't need. You don't need to, like, try and find an extra meal to put it in there. Like, go get that protein consistently. Enjoy yourself. Fattier cuts of meat. That'll bump the calories. It's also gonna probably be because I don't know where your fats are typically. My. My girls, I have to get their fats up a little bit anyways. And so just go for fattier cuts of meat. It'll take care of both problems for you. And then. And then you cut back on the volume, intensity, and stuff that you're doing in training. Follow the Maps 15 protocol. Watch what happens.
- [74:02]
Justin Andrews
Yeah, don't weigh yourself, because that's gonna mess with you.
- [74:04]
Adam Schafer
Stay away from that. Because, honestly, the path is like, What I said 130Something possibly on the scale, and then back down to like, 125, 128. And looking like you've never looked before and feeling the way you've never felt before. But the psychological part of seeing a scale Go over 1:30, I know it would freak you out.
- [74:21]
Justin Andrews
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [74:23]
Lorraine
I mean, yeah, yeah.
- [74:25]
Justin Andrews
So I meant.
- [74:25]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, I know.
- [74:28]
Lorraine
I know. I say it to my clients all the time when they're wanting to build and lose fat and build muscle. I'm like, don't pay attention to the scale.
- [74:34]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [74:34]
Lorraine
But I wasn't seeing anything on me. So I was like, what the hell? Maybe I shouldn't follow my metrics.
- [74:39]
Justin Andrews
And especially if you build muscle easily, like you said, this is gonna. You're gonna love. Yeah, yeah, it's gonna work.
- [74:45]
Adam Schafer
The other option of this, I mean, we gave you the path. If you find yourself still struggling with it, I mean, this is why coaches have coaches too. So, you know, just because you have the knowledge and everything like that, sometimes you just need. You need someone like me who's talking to you once a week and going, you're fine. You're doing great. Keep doing that. You know what I'm saying? When you try and tell me otherwise and be like, no, you're doing Great. Just keep going. And so that's something to consider too. If, if you find that you, you keep you know jumping back, going the.
- [75:12]
Justin Andrews
Other direction, you start hitting PRs and some of the big lifts, you. You're moving in the right direction and you're going to see your body get leaner as a result.
- [75:20]
Lorraine
So I shouldn't be worried about the HRV situation.
- [75:23]
Justin Andrews
You know, here's the deal with hrv. You know who you should use hrv It. Athletes who are in season who are working with coaches and nutritionists who are really toeing the line.
- [75:33]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [75:34]
Justin Andrews
You know what it does to everybody else? It just, it just hyper focus on. Yeah. It's like just get stronger.
- [75:39]
Adam Schafer
I also think the reduction in. I think the reduction in volume and the increase in protein is going to take care of it also. It's. It's. Yeah that part of the reason why that is, is we're under fed. We're not getting the giving the building box. Once you're training hard, your body's trying to recover. So that's what you're. So I bet it would but it doesn't matter. I'm with Sal. Like I, I don't have any clients. I use HRV for just so it's such a. I like. I like things like aura or if you use the whoop. I like it for steps just to keep an idea of activity, you know. And I do like to see my sleep score stuff like I think that's valuable to know. Kind of like oh wow, I strung two bads of good sleep together. I better back off the intensity day. I think that's really valuable feedback. But that's all I really use those tools for. I don't care what brand, which one you like more more or whatever but I look at activity level just keep an eye on it relative to what it. Because what I have found is that everybody has a day two or three in their week is very inconsistent to the other days. And becoming aware of that is. Is really valuable because you either one need to pick up your activity with walking or you need to adjust calories on that day because you're. You're not nearly as active. That's really valuable. And then also just knowing that oh wow, I've had two or three bad days of sleep. I better take it easy in the gym and just go through the motions. Other than that all the other stuff is, is we're over complicating it and I think it ends up more a paralysis by analysis for people. Okay, cool.
- [77:05]
Lorraine
All right.
- [77:06]
Adam Schafer
We're gonna send that over to you.
- [77:08]
Lorraine
I'm excited. Thank you so much.
- [77:10]
Justin Andrews
Let us know how it goes, please.
- [77:11]
Savannah
Yeah, I will.
- [77:12]
Lorraine
Yeah, for sure.
- [77:13]
Justin Andrews
Thank you. All right, thanks.
- [77:15]
Adam Schafer
Yep.
- [77:15]
Justin Andrews
That's gonna be hard.
- [77:16]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's why. That's why I brought up the coach thing is just like, might maybe consider that.
- [77:22]
Justin Andrews
Yeah.
- [77:22]
Adam Schafer
It's not a lack of. She doesn't know. Yeah. She's been coaching people. I bet she's giving that advice to other people. I mean, but you see the look on her face when I say 130 something.
- [77:29]
Unknown Female Host
It's always different than it's yourself.
- [77:32]
Justin Andrews
I've trained a lot of girls like that, and then when they do what I tell them, it's like, oh, boom. Like, results are just.
- [77:38]
Adam Schafer
There's a point. And. And. And that's like if she. When she listens to this, if she didn't go the coach part, you're investing in the coach to just get you to that point. Because there's a. There's an unlock point is I don't know if it's four weeks. I don't know if it's six, I don't know if it's 12. But if you follow them and you follow the plan, there comes this point where you see it, you feel it, and then it's like, oh, like that number would have freaked me out. But I'm looking at a body I've never seen before, and I like. And I'm lifting weights and you go. And I'm eating more. Never ate. Like, okay. And then all of a sudden, it unlocks. But sometimes you need somebody there.
- [78:14]
Justin Andrews
You need someone that you just out. You outsource it. Fine. I'll do what you tell me. Fine. Yeah. Because you can't trust yourself. And then it works. Yep.
- [78:21]
Sal DeStefano
Our next caller is Savannah from Oklahoma.
- [78:23]
Justin Andrews
Hi, Savannah.
- [78:24]
Lorraine
Hello.
- [78:25]
Justin Andrews
How can we help you?
- [78:27]
Savannah
Okay, I'm just going to read my question. Figured that would be easiest.
- [78:30]
Troy
So.
- [78:31]
Savannah
I'm 37 years old. Five seven, 155 pounds around. I kind of sit between 22 and 25% body fat. I was a college athlete. I also played pretty much every sport growing up. Degree in health and exercise science. Comfortable lifting heavy. But I'm really having a struggle in transitioning away from, like, training. Based on percentages and 1 rep maxes. I have maps, Anabolic, Anabolic advanced, and Muscle Mommy. I really want to try to stick through using one of your programs all the way through, but I honestly get a little overwhelmed trying to figure out what weight to use and like when to go up in weight. I love doing programs by Sorenex. I do squat over dead simber every year. But I also know that's not sustainable year round. I currently am focused on building muscle and leaning out. I tend to hold extra weight in my lower belly and I kind of have that harder time getting of like what you would say, a more defined look. I did start topical testosterone in September and I take progesterone at night. I also micro dose on a GLP1. I developed hypoglycemia and insulin resistance after having Covid in 2020. My body pretty much does not regulate blood sugar on its own and that's actually kind of been like a miracle drug for me. Nutrition wise, I really aim for 140 grams of protein a day. Sometimes I land closer to 120 just because of work and traveling. So my main question was, what programs would you recommend me starting and what goals should I set? And then how do I determine what weight to lift when I'm not using percent based on like one rep max?
- [80:18]
Justin Andrews
This is a rad question because almost never do you hear somebody ask a question like this. So you're definitely athlete background.
- [80:27]
Adam Schafer
I want to know what you do for work. Can I ask what you do for. Just curiosity.
- [80:30]
Savannah
I work in construction. I'm the manager of communications and executive services. So I manage all of our executives.
- [80:38]
Justin Andrews
You're doing great. It sounds like you like strength. Yeah, you train kind of like a strength athlete based off of percentages. And this is how much I can lift and all that. It's. It's really just learning how to feel. So you're, you're gonna pick a weight that's going to be difficult within the rep range that's prescribed, and you're just gonna have to trust and you have to kind of train like a bodybuilder.
- [80:59]
Adam Schafer
Also. Also, this is one of the things I always communicate too, is, you know, when we set out like these maps for any plan that we go for this, right? Like, and it says six reps. If let's say you, you guessed away and you guess wrong and you put a little too heavy, it's okay that you did three reps.
- [81:15]
Justin Andrews
It's also okay that you did 10 because you picked too light of a way.
- [81:17]
Adam Schafer
Right? It's okay. It's like it doesn't ruin the program. It's not going to ruin your results.
- [81:22]
Justin Andrews
Just for the next step.
- [81:23]
Adam Schafer
So the next time you come around that you realize like, oh, I was stronger than I realized, or oh, I overestimated on what I could do. It ain't that big of a deal. It really isn't. Like, it doesn't have to be that prescribed. You got to figure out something that you land right on that, and so you can give yourself that permission. Now, typically, you're. You're a little bit different because I. You, you like, you have the athletic background and you like to live strong. Normally with my girls, I'm like, you can do more. And I keep trying to push them to fail at three when it says six, and so I have to do that. You might be the opposite, and I might have to kind of pull you back a little bit, but that. You're a rare case. But it's okay. It's okay. And it's just as okay. Like Sal said, if you picked a weight, it was a little too light, and, oh, you got an extra two or three reps in the next set, increase it, you know, it'll be a.
- [82:04]
Justin Andrews
Good program for you. What map symmetry.
- [82:07]
Lorraine
Okay.
- [82:08]
Justin Andrews
Map symmetry would be amazing.
- [82:09]
Savannah
I think I might have it, actually, now that you say that. But I think I got, like, I started reading all the testing stuff that you have to. That you kind of do at the first, and then I got super overwhelmed.
- [82:20]
Justin Andrews
No, no map symmetry. The first two weeks is isometrics. After that, you get it. It's all unilateral training.
- [82:25]
Troy
Yeah.
- [82:25]
Justin Andrews
Okay. And you'll. And you'll. Someone like you is perfect for you because you gotta feel it's all about technique, form, feel the muscle. Plus because of your strength background, kick.
- [82:34]
Unknown Female Host
You out on that part.
- [82:35]
Justin Andrews
Unilateral training is probably not something you really focus on a lot. And so it's gonna balance out your body. You're gonna get more symmetry.
- [82:42]
Adam Schafer
She doesn't have it.
- [82:42]
Justin Andrews
You'll build more muscle.
- [82:43]
Adam Schafer
O.
- [82:44]
Justin Andrews
No, I think she has prime.
- [82:45]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, you're talking about prime. We'll send symmetry over to you. I. I will caution you. Be patient. The first two weeks will be the most challenging mentally because it's. You're not moving a lot. You're doing a lot of isometric stuff and that like somebody who's like a go getter, go do things like, like move like, like push athlete. Slowing down for the first two weeks of doing isometrics, this enhances your recruitment.
- [83:08]
Justin Andrews
Right.
- [83:09]
Adam Schafer
May feel a little bit torturous to you, but really important for laying the foundation for the rest of the program. So if you trust us, you trust the process, follow it how it's laid out. Hang in there. On the first Two weeks, when it's a lot of isometric stuff, because it get.
- [83:22]
Justin Andrews
It starts really. It gets into some great stuff, it.
- [83:24]
Adam Schafer
Gets really good, and then the program ends with a traditional 5x5. So you can see how strong you got from training that way.
- [83:31]
Justin Andrews
Yeah.
- [83:31]
Adam Schafer
So it's got a cool way to kind of wrap it all up, but you got to trust the process, trust what we did totally. And do that. But like I said, it'll really add.
- [83:38]
Justin Andrews
A nice aesthetic to your physique. Awesome.
- [83:42]
Savannah
That's super helpful. I think I just got in my head in terms of, like, I have to stick to five reps, so I think that's helpful coaching wise. Like, if it's. If you can do more, do more. If you need to do less and less, everybody.
- [83:53]
Adam Schafer
Everybody does.
- [83:54]
Justin Andrews
Your body's gonna respond really well too, by the way. If this is how you've always trained and you move to something like this, it's totally novel. You're gonna see some really nice shape and fullness and roundness to your muscles.
- [84:04]
Unknown Female Host
You gotta go through the experimentation to really, like, you'll recognize the weights and you'll just know, like, in the future, after going through this quite a bit, like, what works best for you and how to push yourself.
- [84:15]
Justin Andrews
You know, Think of it this way too, Savannah. Let's say I pick a weight and, you know, the rep range says 8, and I'm on rep 6, and I'm like, I could probably do 12. You know what I'm going to do? I'm going to slow the rep down, I'm going to squeeze. I'm going to make it so that eight is what I can do.
- [84:30]
Adam Schafer
Yep.
- [84:31]
Justin Andrews
So this is. This is how bodybuilders train. And there's a lot of value to it, especially if this is not how you normally train.
- [84:37]
Adam Schafer
That's it.
- [84:37]
Unknown Female Host
It's the perfect form. It's the mechanics. And so if you're doing it with slow tempo, that's how we gauge it. And then from there, it's like what you can control. And then we add to that.
- [84:46]
Adam Schafer
That's right. It's another way of progressive overload. You're increasing intensity by slowing the tempo down so you don't. Oh. Weight is not the only metric that progressively overloads the body. There are other ways. And so when you just like Sal saying, when you're heading into a. And you're like, oh, this is too easy. Slow that way down, make a squeeze really, really hard. And I mean, like, really down, like, you can make it to where it's like a six second negative. You do two or three reps like that, it makes that weight feel a double. Double what it is easily you can make it fail at that.
- [85:12]
Justin Andrews
So.
- [85:12]
Adam Schafer
But I, I, I would love to hear back from someone like you with your, your discipline, your background, your consistency, applying symmetry. I think if you, if you stick to it, you trust the process with us. I would love to hear, you know, your results.
- [85:25]
Justin Andrews
Should we have you back on in a few months? I want to hear how you, how this all went for you. Sure, let's do it.
- [85:30]
Adam Schafer
Awesome. Yeah, Very cool.
- [85:31]
Justin Andrews
We'll see you soon.
- [85:32]
Adam Schafer
All right, Santa.
- [85:32]
Savannah
Okay, Sounds good.
- [85:33]
Justin Andrews
Thanks, guys. Thank you.
- [85:34]
Unknown Female Host
See you.
- [85:35]
Justin Andrews
Yeah, rare that you hear a female. Come on. It's like, I don't know how to train. So cool percentages. And I was like, oh, this is going to be great for you.
- [85:40]
Adam Schafer
Yeah.
- [85:41]
Justin Andrews
Because she's not afraid of lifting.
- [85:42]
Unknown Female Host
She's not afraid of the right mentality.
- [85:44]
Justin Andrews
No right mentality. By the way, most women would do better training like her because they train in the other way.
- [85:50]
Adam Schafer
Right.
- [85:50]
Justin Andrews
It's very rare. But when you go from that to feel contract, squeeze, unilateral, you know, when you train bilateral strength, then you switch to unilateral. Suddenly it's like a whole new. Yeah, I remember. Who's our friend? What's his name?
- [86:04]
Adam Schafer
Ben.
- [86:05]
Justin Andrews
Ben. Yeah. I remember he was doing split stance stuff.
- [86:07]
Unknown Female Host
Yeah.
- [86:08]
Justin Andrews
This guy who squats over £650, like 135. And he's like. Because it's just, it's super foreign.
- [86:15]
Adam Schafer
Yep.
- [86:15]
Sal DeStefano
Our next color is Troy from Utah.
- [86:18]
Justin Andrews
Hey, Troy.
- [86:18]
Adam Schafer
What's going on, Troy?
- [86:19]
Justin Andrews
What's up, man?
- [86:20]
Troy
What's going on, fellas? How are you doing?
- [86:21]
Justin Andrews
Good.
- [86:22]
Adam Schafer
Good, man.
- [86:22]
Justin Andrews
How can we help you?
- [86:24]
Troy
Doing good. I'm just gonna say, Ross, that this is weird. The last five years I've been talking to you in my car, you never actually talked back, so I know this is weird. All right. Yeah, I'll dive right in. Because it's a little bit of a, a weird, odd, long question, but the main one is how can I balance the desire to be financially successful with personal training, with giving the glory to God and just wanting to overall help people to the best of my ability. So a little bit, a little bit backstory and context so you can get the full scope of it. So 34 years old, start to go into the gym. When I was 13, I was a homeschooled kid growing up, so, you know, didn't necessarily fit in super well with the other kids in my age. And I was always a lean kid. So when I'd get compliments about, you know, the way I look, things like that, my brain attached it to, oh, if I'm jacked, then I get the acceptance of other kids. And so I kind of just ran with that. Fast forward to my early twenties. Dabbled in physique competitions for a couple years, which for, for anyone listening, when the guys tell you that competition is not gonna fix your insecurity, please listen to them because they're 100 correct. So, yeah, I did that for a hot minute and then worked for a Big Box gym for a little while doing personal training management for them. And unfortunately, it's just not so great experience. There's a lot of shady stuff they were kind of doing with their business deals and just the GMs and DMs, that didn't sit super well with me. So it kind of left a bit of a bad taste in my mouth when it came to personal training of Big Box gyms. And at that time I was going through my CPT certs, but by the time I got to the end of it, my, you know, kind of understanding of personal training, everything was associated with what I saw going on there. So I thought, why am I going to do this if this is what it's going to be? I don't feel good about going about it this way. So stepped away from that fast forward a couple more years. Just kind of kept getting this sense of wanting to, you know, take this love of fitness and nutrition, everything I learned over the years, and, you know, bring that to other people. So I was helping out, you know, friends and family and eventually started to try and, you know, build an online following. Did it all the wrong ways, you know, trying to kind of hack the algorithm and, you know, emulate what I was kind of seeing with other fitness influencers. And of course, it just was terrible. And eventually, you know, just felt too conflicting. I was like, I don't want to keep doing this, and kind of stepped away from it. And I got my CES during that time period just from listening to you guys. I want to preach mobility more to the people I was helping out. And then most recently in the past year and a half, here at my job, we have a slack groups that we can create and manage with other people. So I created one just where I put out fitness tips and tricks, you know, once, twice a week for people that they can just follow along to. I've done a couple mobility classes here at the office, some movement assessments, just breaking down exercise for people who feel like they need the help. And I've just been doing that for about the last year and a half or so, and I guess it's just hitting the point where it feels like that door to, you know, actually taking this on as more of, like, a source of income is coming up again. But my mind flashes back to all the times that I did it the wrong way or I was doing it for the wrong intentions and not actually to, you know, honor God through what I was doing, but also just to, you know, give back to people in the best way that I know how. So my main question is I almost feel conflicted about bringing money into the equation. And I know you guys talk about getting the reps in and taking time just to give things away for free, and it almost feels weird to step out of that. So, yeah, just curious as to your thoughts on where I should take this, if I should take this somewhere and. Yeah, anything that you got for me, guys?
- [90:51]
Justin Andrews
Yeah, good question, dude. Okay, so you want to. Here's the good news about fitness. It's not a hard field to do for the right reasons. There's a lot of fields out there where you kind of have to think to yourself, like, okay, who am I serving here?
- [91:07]
Adam Schafer
Right, Right.
- [91:08]
Justin Andrews
But the good thing about fitness is, I mean, if you do a good job, Troy, as a trainer, you improve somebody's health, you help them improve their health, you help them navigate a modern world where the default is dysfunction around diet and activity. It's poor health. And so. And, you know, the Bible talks about this, right? Talks about how your. Your body is a temple and to essentially care for it and treat it well so that you can do the things that, let's say God wants you to do. Money's not bad. A lot of people think that there's a. There's a quote in the Bible that money is the root of all evil. That's not true. It's the love of money that is the root of evil. And are you familiar with the parable of the talents?
- [91:55]
Troy
That one I do know.
- [91:57]
Justin Andrews
So Jesus gives a parable where he talks about a master giving three of his slaves talents or money. And he gives five to one, two to another one to another one. And then afterwards, he comes back after being gone for a while, and he asked them what they did. And the guy with the five talents said, oh, I took your five talents and I invested it here, and I did this, and I got you another five talents. And the master says, great job. I'm going to give you more responsibilities. You did a good job. The guy with the two talents comes back, same thing. He increased its value. He said, great job, you're gonna get more responsibilities. The guy with the first talent, with the one talent says, I buried it. I knew you were kind of a harsh man. I buried it, saved it, brought it back to you. Here it is. And he's like, you idiot. Essentially, you could have put it in the bank at least and gained interest. You're getting nothing. In fact, I'm going to give your talent to the other one, the other guys, and I'm going to put you out into the, in the wilderness where there'll be the weeping and gnashing of teeth, right? So the parable is essentially saying that you're given talents by God and if you don't use them, it's a waste. And so if you love fitness and you love helping people and you're trying to help people genuinely and you're a good steward with the money you earn from it, this is, that is for God's glory. Now if it's for the sake of your own fame, of your own pride, of your own, you know, I just make money for the sake of making money. Well, that's, that's totally different. But if, if you genuinely are, are trying to help people and you do it from that heart posture, it's great, man. And we've proven you can do it the right way.
- [93:27]
Adam Schafer
By the way, I'm so glad that s went that way because I had something to say to you right away and I wanted to wait to see what he had to say. And it's so crazy that it align. I was going to ask you if you know your gifts and if 1. Do you believe that God gives everybody a gift, a talent to his parable and do you know what yours is? And I think that's the most important piece. If you believe or know what your talent is that he's given you, the best way you can glorify him is to go, go be great at that talent. Go do it and share it with the world. So first identify that. And if you believe, you know that and it fits somewhere in this helping others and personal training and working out and health, then, then you're, you're on the right track and do it to the best your ability and you're serving him through that. So I think sometimes people overthink this or what it looks like, and many times they feel like they need to express it and tell everyone, he knows your heart posture, he knows where it comes from. And so let that lead you and guide you, but also don't be lazy and just dig a hole and bury it and think he's going to come. Yeah, do work, work at it, be great at it, struggle through it, keep going. You know, I'm saying, and it's like.
- [94:47]
Justin Andrews
By the way, Troy, what you're saying, even for non Christian trainers, they struggle with the way they struggle is they say, I just want to help people. Yeah, I just want to help people, but I don't want to charge them for it, which is silly because if, if you don't make this into a business, you can't help reach as many people. That's right, yes.
- [95:04]
Unknown Female Host
So, yeah, and that's the thing. And I, I understand the same thing. Like, you know, this is trainers across the board. It's that it is kind of a bit of a service focused business. And so it's like, you know, you want to help people and this is a passion driven job. And so, yeah, to be able to understand though, as a business, any business, you know, that's what, that's what helps move things and grow things to a level where you can help and reach a lot more people, which is, is really the goal for that. So you're doing good things through the money is a part of that equation. So there's nothing wrong with that. It's like you said, see, it's the love of it.
- [95:44]
Adam Schafer
We could have, the four of us could have kept just putting this free content out into the world and still helped hundreds of thousands of people like we did and not built a business around it, but we built a business around it that now supports 30 employees. Those 30 employees go out, impact hundreds of lives every single month, like in person. That, that's crazy. I mean, not only just there, but on top of the lives that we continue to impact on this podcast because we built a business around it. I mean, I'm sure there is a percentage of people that wish we would have just kept everything for free and just kept doing that and, and sure, but we only went about to do that for so long. The fact that we built a business around it has allowed us.
- [96:26]
Unknown Female Host
Kept us here.
- [96:27]
Adam Schafer
Yeah, it's kept us here this long, has allowed us to employ so many families and lives and then they go out and go impact some. So it's far bigger than just this little room right here.
- [96:36]
Justin Andrews
Let me give you an example, Troy. Okay. So, you know, we could sell, we could sell a lot of workout programs by using before and after pictures of the people that have used our programs. But we know in our heart that that kind of, you know, that pushes people towards that body centric, body obsession type of deal that we speak against. And so the thing is like, okay, we could sell more programs but is it really coming from the right place or is it, is it serving people in the right way? And we decided no, it's not. And so we left a lot of money on the table doing it the, you know, we would consider the right way. And I think we've proven that in that you can do that in the fitness industry. You really can. And I'll make this argument here. If you do it the right way, you'll build a more sustainable business, you'll.
- [97:24]
Unknown Female Host
Make more longevity to it.
- [97:26]
Justin Andrews
Yeah. So go out there and love people in genuine ways. Build a business, be a good steward with your money. Check yourself when pride comes in because it's going to, it's going to do that every day and you're totally fine and don't worry so much about it. I think you're doing good. I think you have the right. You're already. Just because you're asking this question tells me you're, you're moving in the right direction.
- [97:48]
Adam Schafer
I was mentoring three trainers the other day, this was just last week and having a similar conversation with, for with what to focus on where they're at. And I think you're even further along than, than they were. And I said what you need to focus on right now is serving and building a community of a few hundred people with the goal of getting to a thousand. Can I serve and help a few hundred people? Can I build a community that I don't really make probably any money off of but, but build this community of people that I'm serving, I am helping. And if you can get to a place where you start reaching 500 to a thousand of those people that you've done that with, you're sitting on a million dollar business. And instead of actually wondering what you're going to sell or do, continue to serve and allow the community to tell you what they want from you and the opportunity will reveal itself. And if you that right there is hard enough, takes long enough, requires consistency, discipline, follow through and is going to take enough time that everything else will unfold. But everybody gets distracted by algorithms and virality and what business plan I'm going to do. And I heard this guy on a sales funnel and how to make 10,000 overnight and we get all distracted by all this other. It's like go use Your gift that was given to you to go serve as many people as you can. And it's going to start off like this. It's going to be 10 people and then it's going to be 50 people, and then it'll be a 100 people and then it'll be a few hundred people. Now you're starting to get some momentum. And then before you know it, maybe a year, maybe two, maybe three years later, okay, you've got a thousand people that absolutely love and adore you because you have changed their lives fundamentally. And they are going to tell you what they want and what they need from you. And there's your business. And you're sitting on at least a million dollar business right there. Just focus on that.
- [99:38]
Justin Andrews
And then, you know, one last thing, Troy. You know, you. You have the God of the universe pray before all this stuff. You know, don't take out the supernatural. It's real. And so ask for guidance. You're going to need it 100% because you're going to, you know, move in the wrong direction throughout, even throughout every day. So just involve prayer throughout this whole process. But because you're asking this question, it tells me your heart's already kind of starting off in the right place. For sure.
- [100:08]
Troy
I appreciate that. For sure. Yeah, I think for me is definitely more of a, like a worthiness thing. Like, am I actually worthy to receive money for this? I. I'm good with, you know, I could have conversations with people for hours on end just on health and fitness and not think about, you know, oh, well, what am I getting out of this? I just love talking to people about that. And yeah, I think it's for me just that getting past the imposter syndrome of saying it's okay to, you know, make money while also doing this.
- [100:42]
Justin Andrews
Let me switch that for you. Okay. They'll determine if you're worth.
- [100:45]
Adam Schafer
That's right.
- [100:45]
Justin Andrews
Your customers will determine if you're worth money. You don't make that decision for them. You don't have. You know, that's actually quite arrogant if you think about it. It's like, oh, I'm arrogant enough. Like, let me let them decide. So here's my services. They'll decide. And then the second thing is this unworthiness. Turn that into gratitude because it can easily turn into shame, which is not. That's not valuable. Gratitude is very valuable. Like, wow, man, I can't believe, like.
- [101:10]
Unknown Female Host
I get to do this.
- [101:10]
Justin Andrews
I'm so blessed. Like, look at these clients. And they're paying me and I'VE got this business, and I'm supporting my family and this. And I get to do this thing that I love. Like, that's. That's where it should go. Not the. Like, I'm, you know, grateful for the.
- [101:23]
Unknown Female Host
Results and the knowledge that you're passing on to them, just like any other business.
- [101:27]
Adam Schafer
Have you been listening to the podcast long enough or. Before we actually monetized and made any money from the business, did you ever. Did you listen that far back? How far back are you?
- [101:36]
Troy
I've been about five years, so not, I don't think quite that far.
- [101:40]
Adam Schafer
Okay, so. So the. The story goes, Maps Anabolic existed before Mind Pump Media did. We had something to sell. We did over 250 episodes. Okay, so a year of free content. Free content. We had a free forum that we were driving people from there, helping them. The four of us were talking to those people every single day, helping, helping, helping, help. And. And what had happened was after about a year, year and a half, so many people every day were just trying to give us money. We weren't trying to sell anything. We didn't. We didn't tell anybody about Maps Anabolic yet. But people felt that, felt compelled to give it. They wanted to donate. They wanted us to start a patreon. And when it got to a point where every. Every owner was coming to the studio hearing, I got at least two messages just yesterday, just like that. It's like, okay, now it's time to offer this Maps Anabolic program that we have. And when we did that, that was the beginning of. That was the beginning of what started everything. So go serve with that attitude. Not of I need to. Charge of I need to go serve and help. The business will, will, will reveal itself, and if it doesn't, keep working on your craft, keep working on what you're serving, and then it'll show. It'll show you.
- [102:52]
Troy
Yeah, I love that, guys. Yeah, I appreciate it. And, yeah, I think it's just the words I needed to hear and confirmation just keep grinding away at it and keep. Yeah, my heart postured towards God and people. And then, like you said, the rest will kind of shake itself out. So. Yeah, that. That makes total sense.
- [103:09]
Justin Andrews
Yeah, dude, go do it.
- [103:10]
Adam Schafer
Go do it, Troy.
- [103:10]
Justin Andrews
Go do it.
- [103:11]
Adam Schafer
Right on, brother.
- [103:12]
Troy
We'll do, guys. Okay, well, just want to leave it off. I know you hear it every day, but I hope it's never lost on you that you guys are leaving behind a legacy that's just a lot more than helping people with their health and their fitness and all these things, but you're really exceptional men that I have the most and utmost respect for. So, yeah, just God bless you guys. I appreciate everything that you do, and you've given me so much personally in my life that, you know, I. I can't give enough gratitude for that. So thank you, guys.
- [103:40]
Justin Andrews
Thank you. Okay. All right.
- [103:43]
Troy
Have a good Christmas, fellas.
- [103:44]
Justin Andrews
Thank you. So funny. Literally, last night, I read. I was reading the parable of the Talents.
- [103:49]
Adam Schafer
I was gonna jump. I was gonna jump right in. I had something to say. I'm like, let me hear what Sal has said to say first. And it was like, oh, it's so aligned with where I was going. It's just that, I mean, I. I believe that everybody has a gift.
- [104:02]
Justin Andrews
You're given. You're. You're given. If this is what you believe, this is what you follow. You're given gifts for the kingdom.
- [104:08]
Unknown Female Host
That's it.
- [104:09]
Justin Andrews
And if you don't use them, you. You hoard them to yourself, you hide them, they actually wither and disappear. And that is sinful. That's the thing that you want to use these gifts. And. And fitness is great because you're genuinely helping people. You know, you're not selling cigarettes. You don't. You know, and sometimes some businesses, I could see how it would be a hard, like, oh, what am I doing? Am I actually helping people? Yeah, in fitness, you are helping.
- [104:34]
Unknown Female Host
It's hard to reconcile, but.
- [104:35]
Justin Andrews
Yeah, well, this is easy.
- [104:37]
Adam Schafer
I mean, it's. I mean, I know. At least in my personal life, you know, I. There's. And I've shared this before. I mean, I left the fitness career to go chase the money. And it was very obvious to me after a couple years that it wasn't. I wasn't aligned. It wasn't aligned with my gifts. I wasn't aligned with what I was supposed to do. I accomplished the money thing more unhappy than I'd ever been. Relationships were. It was very obvious that I was.
- [105:03]
Justin Andrews
Such a great thing to communicate.
- [105:04]
Adam Schafer
I wasn't using my gifts. And so I think that's this dilemma that a lot of people get, though, is like, they. They're attracted to something very. It could be money, could be a fame, could be attention, could be, oh, that looks like fun to do. But you're not using your gift, but then you're drawn to this thing, and then you're wondering why you can't unlock it. It's like, well, maybe it's because you're not aligned with your gifts and the potential that you.
- [105:25]
Justin Andrews
Or you're like a curse, which you actually came out of it in the right way, which is you get what you think you want and you had the strength to say, this is not what I want. But a lot of people chase the money, get the money and they're afraid to leave even though they're miserable or.
- [105:40]
Adam Schafer
They think it's just they need more.
- [105:41]
Justin Andrews
They need, oh, even worse. And they just keep chasing it. Right? Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. We'll see what's at Mind Pump Media.
- [105:47]
Sal DeStefano
Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB super bundle@mindpumpmedia.com the RGB Super Bundle includes Maps, Anabolic Mapstroform and Maps Aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos. The RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full full 30 day money back guarantee and you can get it now. Plus other valuable free resources@mindpumpmedia.com if you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review on itunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is Mind Pump.