2768: The Surprising Benefits of Gaining Body Fat

Summary

Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth

Episode 2768 – The Surprising Benefits of Gaining Body Fat

Hosts: Sal Di Stefano, Adam Schafer, Justin Andrews, Doug Egge
Date: January 9, 2026

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Overview

This episode of Mind Pump flips conventional fitness wisdom on its head by exploring the surprising benefits of gaining body fat, especially for fitness enthusiasts stuck on the perpetual quest to stay lean. The hosts challenge fat-loss dogma, explain why some people (even diehard fitness fanatics) might need to gain fat, and discuss the physiological, hormonal, and psychological benefits of carrying a bit more body fat. They also answer listener questions on squat technique, rest periods, creatine/caffeine, and hip mobility.

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Main Discussion: Why Gaining Body Fat Might Be Healthy

[03:28–18:00]

Challenging "Fat-phobia"

• Sal opens by questioning the universal drive to lose fat:

  “All right, everybody says lose body fat, right? Body fat's bad for you. Got to get rid of it. But did you know that for some people, they need to gain body fat?... For a lot of you fitness fanatics…this is exactly what you need to do.” (Sal, 03:28)

• Adam and Sal discuss athlete body fat percentiles:

  • Athletes performing at their best often carry more fat than social media ideals.
  • Male athletes: Often perform best at ~15% body fat.
  • Going too low (below 10% for men, below 18% for women) can wreck hormones — lower testosterone for men, impaired fertility and lost periods for women.
  • Being slightly overweight and strong often yields better health outcomes than being underweight and weak. (Sal, 09:28)

The Physiology Behind Gaining Some Fat

• Adam observes “rebound” gains from moving from a calorie deficit to surplus:

  “Coming out of a show where I’m feeding the body consistently…man, I just, I felt like I was growing and building.” (Adam, 06:24)

• Sal explains the link between caloric surplus and muscle gain:

  • Very lean individuals may hover at maintenance or a deficit.
  • Simply eating more and allowing some fat gain can prompt muscle and strength increases even before massive body fat changes.
  • For most, pushing beyond chronic leanness (up to 11–12% for men, low 20s for women) boosts gym progress and subjective wellbeing. (Sal, 12:12)

Real-Life Effects: Hormones, Libido, and Wellbeing

• Hormonal effects:

  • Testosterone drops in men at low body fat.
  • Estrogen/progesterone wane in women, leading to lost periods and even bone density issues.
  • Examples: Female athletes developing osteopenia despite heavy training.

• Physical and mental benefits of higher body fat:

  "Your joints don't hurt. Like suddenly your joints feel better." (Sal, 11:06)
  "Hair and libido too... when they run low calorie like that ... crushes that libido." (Adam, 11:14)

  • Even bodybuilders on steroids get zero libido when shredded for competition:

    “You talk to a male bodybuilder on anabolic steroids, they got high testosterone. That’s right. And they're pre-contest. No libido.” (Sal, 11:31)

  • Improved sleep, skin/nails, mood also cited as immediate benefits.

• Reframing fitness goals:

  • Most people benefit from a short “season” (e.g., 2 months) spent gaining, tracking body fat and monitoring how they feel rather than chasing visibility of a six-pack.

  “Try going through a season, a 60 day season... let me track all the other stuff... You’ll be blown away and it may just change your relationship with fitness.” (Sal, 17:10)

The Social & Psychological Dimension

• Perceptions of attractiveness:
  • Both men and women tend to overestimate the level of leanness the opposite sex finds attractive.

    “Men try to achieve this look that women don’t even think are very attractive. And women do the same thing.” (Adam, 16:08)

  • Surveys show women prefer men at 12–15%, men prefer women ~22–26%.

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• “I want to be clear... Even if my testosterone is high from steroids, if body fat is too low, libido is toast.” (Sal, 11:31)
• “When women chase a six pack... you're pretty much guaranteed to screw up your hormones.” (Sal, 14:07)
• “It’s only recently that we attributed being shredded to being healthy. This was almost never the case in human history.” (Sal, 14:25)
• “If you want to get all four [MAPS programs], go for it!” (Sal, promotional energy, 02:17)

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Listener Q&A Highlights

On Butt Wink in Squats

[60:40–65:00]

• Explained: Tailbone tucks under at the bottom of a squat.
• For high-level lifters, butt wink at very bottom is almost unavoidable but not usually risky.
• For average clients, excessive lumbar movement is a problem—focus on core bracing, mobility, and limiting ROM until stable.

“There is a version of the butt wink that I think can be dangerous and bad. And then there’s a version that’s totally safe.” (Adam, 60:49)

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Rest Periods: Should Heart Rate or Time Dictate?

[66:01–68:15]

• Both matter, but rest periods are especially important for replenishing ATP/energy, not just bringing heart rate down.
• Super-fit clients may feel ready to go sooner, but should wait 2–3 minutes to optimize strength and muscle gains.

“The rest periods are what make it strength training. More than almost anything else.” (Sal, 67:52)

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Creatine + Caffeine: Do They Cancel Each Other Out?

[68:16–71:20]

• No significant evidence that caffeine negates creatine benefits.
• Don’t stress about taking them together; minor old studies are inconclusive.

“Even if there was a slight interference, it’s not enough for you to worry…” (Sal, 68:39)

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Chronic Front Hip Soreness

[71:21–73:52]

• If stretching/foam rolling fails, weak hip flexors could be the culprit.
• Recommended: Strengthen with single-leg leg raises and 90/90 mobility exercises.

“If foam rolling and stretching isn't really impacting it…there’s probably a strength issue.” (Justin, 72:33)

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Other Notable Segments

Real-World Coaching

[25:13–28:13]

• Sal and Adam discuss periodizing intensity:
  • One hard week a month, otherwise cruise.
  • “Better results” from backing off and not always “chasing the pump.”
• Emphasize the importance of “off-seasons” for fitness fanatics.

On Gut Health & Water Retention

[32:19–36:36]

• Sal reveals gut health transformation after treating parasites allowed him to eat more food, gain health, and bounce back from water retention and inflammation more quickly.
• Water retention can mask true leanness:

  "I could fluctuate 10 pounds of water. No problem... I've held water to the point where I was 8% body fat but didn’t have abs." (Sal, 35:32)

Humor & Group Dynamic

Running Thread/Various Timestamps

• Jokes about the group maintaining the same “combined weight” over years, ribbing each other about DEXA scans, and childhood games (pencil fighting, paper football).

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Key Takeaways

• Low body fat isn’t always better: Very lean isn't healthier for most; moderate body fat percentages optimize hormones, libido, sleep, and resilience.
• Muscle and strength improve with adequate body fat and calories: Chronic dieting or living in a deficit impairs progress and overall health.
• Performance, health, and attractiveness often align with body fat levels higher than “Instagram lean”.
• Periodizing training (with “off-seasons”) leads to better results, especially for advanced lifters.
• Coaches should be alert to the risks of chronic leanness, especially for women.
• Gut health can greatly affect your physique, performance, and how much food you can tolerate.
• Technique and client individuality matter in assessing squat form, rest intervals, and mobility issues.

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Recommended Experiments

• If you’re chronically lean, consider gaining a few percent body fat and closely track how you feel, sleep, recover, and perform over 30–60 days.
• Try periodizing your training—alternate periods of pushing hard with deloads or easier weeks.

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Notable Quotes (With Timestamps)

• “You need body fat on your body. And it’s not just the extreme lows… if you're a dude and you like always walk around 9, 10%... Start eating more until you see your body fat go up to 11 and 12%. And tell me you don’t see crazy strength gains in the gym.” — Sal, 12:12
• “When women chase a six pack, you’re pretty much guaranteed to screw up your hormones.” — Sal, 14:07
• “Men try to achieve this look that women don’t even think are very attractive.” — Adam, 16:08
• “Being overweight but strong is better than being a little underweight and weak. Far better.” — Sal, 09:28
• “The rest periods are what make it strength training… More than almost anything else.” — Sal, 67:52

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Timestamps of Important Segments

• 03:28 – 18:00: Main body fat discussion, myths, and benefits
• 11:06 – 12:45: Joint health, libido, muscle gains with higher body fat
• 17:10: Advice for chronic “fitness fanatics”
• 32:19 – 36:36: Gut health’s impact
• 60:40 – 65:00: Butt wink in squats Q&A
• 66:01 – 68:15: Rest periods: heart rate vs. time Q&A
• 68:16 – 71:20: Creatine with caffeine Q&A
• 71:21 – 73:52: Front hip soreness Q&A

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This episode challenges fitness myths, highlights the tradeoffs of extreme leanness, and promotes a more sustainable, holistic view of health and performance—delivered in Mind Pump’s signature raw, witty style, with expert nuance and coach-to-coach honesty.

Transcript

[Adam Schaefer]

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[Sal DeStefano]

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[Sal DeStefano]

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[Adam Schaefer]

Mind, there's only one place to go.

[Sal DeStefano]

Mind Pump Mind Pump with your hosts Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer and Justin Andrews, you just found the most downloaded fitness, health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump. In today's episode we answered listeners questions. We did that at the end of the episode, but that was before or after. Excuse me, the intro. Today's intro is 57 minutes long. This is where we talk about fitness and fat loss and muscle gain, nutrition, family life. Always a good time. By the way, if you want to write in a question that we might pick for an episode, go to Instagram mindpumpmedia. That's where you can post it now. This episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Kion. Today we talked about their essential amino acids. If you have trouble hitting that really high protein target and you know the benefits of getting a lot of protein, try supplementing with essential amino acids. Super easy. You take six capsules a couple times a day. It's a lot easier than eating another meal and you get a lot of the same benefits. In today's episode, Adam talked about how he's using Kion amino acids to supplement so he could get the benefits of a super high protein diet. Go check them out. Get 20% off go to getkeon.com that's G-E-T K-I-O-N.com mindpump that link will get you 20% off. This episode is also brought to you by Paleo Valley Today we talked about their meat sticks, which are delicious. They're not dry, they're 8 grams of protein each. And we talked about their bone broth protein, which is, by the way, it's the best tasting protein powder I've ever had in my entire life. Minimally processed, the chocolate tastes like chocolate donuts. Anyway, go check them out. Get yourself a discount. Go to paleovalley.com mindpump that link will get you 15% off. We're also having a sale on some maps programs. Four of them right now are half off. Maps, starter maps, transform maps, anabolic and maps performance, all 50% off. Go to mapsfitnessproducts.com, use the code newyear50 for the discount. By the way, that code will work on all of them. So if you want to get all four, go for it. All right, real quick.

[Justin Andrews]

If you love us like we love you, why not show up by rocking one of our shirts, hats, mugs, or training gear [e-mail] I'm talking right now. Hit pause, head on over to mypumpstore.com that's it. Enjoy the rest of the show.

[Sal DeStefano]

All right, everybody says lose body fat, right? Body fat's bad for you. Got to get rid of it. But did you know that for some people, they need to gain body fat? In fact, there's benefits to gaining body fat. For a lot of you fitness fanatics, there's a good percentage of you watching right now. We're going to talk about why some of you. This is exactly what you need to do. Get better, get fatter.

[Adam Schaefer]

You know, obviously we've talked not only on live callers. We all have experience with helping people with this. This has been confirmed by my experience many, many times over. But I'm actually not familiar with the research around it. And do we have studies to show that the person who's trying to gain body fat, or I mean, excuse me, gain muscle from a certain body fat percentage versus another? Is there research to support what we're talking about?

[Sal DeStefano]

Not specifically, but what they do find is that athletes or high performers in strength tend to carry more body fat than what social media will have you believe. A good body fat percentage. So, like athletes who do really well and perform well, Right. If you're an athlete, you're not on stage posing, you actually have to perform well. And athletes that do really well, generally male, male athletes will fall around 15% body fat, which is 5% higher body fat percentage than the 10% that social media will have you believe is a Healthy body fat percentage. Yeah, but I'll speak to some data though. Going too low will destroy your hormones. This is both true for men and for women. For men, when you start to go below 10, for most men, you go below 10%, you see depressions in testosterone. Testosterone starts to drop in women, in particular women, when their body fat percentage starts to get in the teens, especially as it starts to get, let's say below 18%. What you start to see are reductions in fertility lost period. Estrogen, progesterone levels start to get out of whack. And by the way, this is a common thing. If there's a, if there's a woman listening or watching right now who used to be an athlete and compete and you know, push herself, you know how common it is that you're, you lose your period because you're just working too hard and getting too lean. And that's just because hormone dysfunction. So for many people, in particular, fitness fanatics, in particular, people who are so afraid of not being ripped, so afraid of not having definition, when I've worked with people like this, oftentimes the goal is to gain some body fat. And through that process we get all these great results. But until we gain body fat, it's like impossible. It's like pushing a boulder uphill.

[Adam Schaefer]

So I think that's obvious when you talk about like extremely low because in unhealthy places, say male at 6 or lower tends to be unhealthy. And you could have hormonal stuff, women under like 17, 18, similar type of story. But I wonder if there's more of a correlation to ju. Just. Okay, a person who, like, let's say the guy who, just because we've talked to someone just recently like this, the guy who's just hovers around 8% body fat and he's struggling to build, build muscle, but he, he's always hovering around that. Well, that also tells me another thing, that if he's always hovering around there, he's always around maintenance. Maybe he's lucky, a slight surplus, but mostly in a deficit. And I wonder, Sal, if there's actually less of a correlation to the body fat percentage and more a correlation of just a. What, what it does to just be in this caloric surplus for an extended period of time. And the reason why I say this is because coming from someone who's been as low as 3% body fat, some of my best gains came right after that. I didn't, I wouldn't, I didn't have to be all the way up 1315. But what I was definitely on was a, a massive calorie surplus after that. Right. So coming from a, a deficit of six to eight weeks coming into a show and then coming out of a show where I'm feeding the body consistently over my maintenance every day, man, I just, I, I felt like I was growing and building. And so, you know, do you think that maybe there's, there's more there than just. Oh, it's there because there's this, it's a, it's a body fat percentage thing. Because you're right, obviously when you're, when it's so low, you're going to have hormone. But if you're in that kind of like say 8%, which some people can carry themselves there and be hormonally. Okay. Do you think maybe it might have more to do with the, the added 12, 13, 14, 15 body fat from the guy who's used to being at 8% has more to do with all the extra calories he's has to keep.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, of course it does. Body fat percentage is just the thing that we can measure.

[Adam Schaefer]

Okay.

[Sal DeStefano]

But by the way, it's actually quite relatively rare for a guy who just always is at 8% to have ideal hormones. And what you'll see when they go up to 10 or 11%, all things being equal, is their testosterone levels go up. Generally speaking, there's always those genetic anomalies. I know people will point out pro athletes that eat Skittles and, you know, all day long and like, those are just freaks of nature.

[Justin Andrews]

Those are the only ones I saw that did well. It was the genetic anomalies, honestly. Like, the guys that were like low body fat just would gas out real fast and, you know, you'd see like power differences completely too. And I just, I think it's one thing to like, I think the perspective of that look and that physique is very misleading for a lot of people with, when you're talking about performance, obviously, but that's the general consensus from like your average person is like, well, this person's like ripped or look at fights. Like, when you, When I bet on fights, I'm not betting on the super shredded guy.

[Sal DeStefano]

I know typically destroyed. You have to have a little bit. No, that's, that's, that's not a bad point. And to be quite honest, the people that I've, that I've almost always had to coach this to were women. Almost always been a couple guys out there. But it was the women who, you know, strength trained, did everything right, but their Calories are always so low. They're always walking around 15, 14 body fat. You know, I've had a couple cases, in fact, of women. One of them worked for me years ago, and she got a bone density test and it came back. And she strength trained all the time. And it came back. She was borderline osteopenia. And she was like 30. She must have been 32. And she was so flabbergasted. Like, how can I have. I've been lifting weights for years. And it was like, you got to eat more and you can't walk around at 15% body fat. You got it. Bump, train it. Right. And then again, if you look at like the data, like, if you look at really, if you look at people who are underweight versus people who are a little bit overweight, a little bit underweight, actually has worse mortality outcomes than someone who's a little bit overweight. Okay. And being overweight but strong is actually better than being a little underweight and weak. Far better.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

From a more from a mortality and health perspective, here's some other benefits that you'll notice by is if this is you and you're listening to this right now, you're probably. It's just gonna. You're scared or you want to skip this. You're like, I'm not gonna do that. But hear me out. Here's what you'll find. You'll find not just you'll build more muscle. Yes. You'll gain body fat and you'll build strength and muscle. You'll also notice things like your joints don't hurt. Like suddenly your joints feel better.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's a big one. That's actually the first thing that the people that I worked with noticed is that their joints just started feeling a lot better.

[Adam Schaefer]

Hair and libido, too. Hair and libido were also hair, nails and skin.

[Sal DeStefano]

Massive difference in those.

[Adam Schaefer]

And libido. I know a lot of. A lot of people that like both men and women when they're. When they run low calorie like that or low body fat percentage for an extended period of time, crushes that libido, by the way.

[Sal DeStefano]

I want to be clear with that too, because it's not just the hormone depression that causes the low libido, because that for sure will. But you talk to a male bodybuilder on anabolic steroids, they got high testosterone. That's right. And they're pre contest. No libido.

[Justin Andrews]

No.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Look at all the testosterone in the world. My. No libido.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Their Body fat percentage is too low.

[Adam Schaefer]

Katrina always hated the last, last two weeks. I know, I'm serious. She just knew, like the last two weeks I'm using Adam's turning into a monk. And which is, which is crazy when you think about that. To your point is because I'm taking exogenous testosterone.

[Sal DeStefano]

So it's like you have low testosterone.

[Adam Schaefer]

So if you were to go test my, my levels, it's like I've got higher than normal average in me, but yet my libido was crushed during that time.

[Sal DeStefano]

So, yeah, it's a protective mechanism. You need body fat on your body. And it's not just the extreme lows. I'm telling you, like, if you're, if you're a dude and you like always walk around 9, 10% and you want to make more progress in the gym and you eat clean, you probably already do, right? You're 9, 10%. So it's like, I don't need to tell you, don't eat junk food. Track your body fat percentage while continuing to eat healthy and start eating more until you see your body fat go up to 11 and 12%. And tell me you don't see crazy strength gains in the gym.

[Justin Andrews]

Right?

[Sal DeStefano]

I know.

[Justin Andrews]

It's one of those things you're not going to know until you actually go through that process and feel it.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right. And, and then back to what you were saying, Adam, about when you come out of a show and you get some of the best games of your life. This has been documented. We know this. Endurance athletes were the first ones to really take advantage of this. Bodybuilders do it to look a particular way on stage. But we know when you deplete and then, you know, bodybuilders call refilling. Endurance athletes know this. Your body will store more energy after a rebound. In other words, if you're an endurance athlete, you deplete your carbs, then you eat more carbs than you did before. You'll actually go into your race with more energy stored than you would have had. You never depleted and then refilled because your body has kind of like this rebound effect, I believe. I don't know any studies that show this, but you talk to anybody who's ever experienced this?

[Justin Andrews]

Yes, that strategy.

[Sal DeStefano]

There's a muscle building rebound effect as well. I experienced the same thing and I did it naturally. I did it when I got really lean. For the original Maps Anabolic, I did a photo shoot with Doug. I got my body fat down like 4%. And after that I just Fed my body and I just built like it was like two months of just. Especially that first four weeks. It's like I just built muscle.

[Adam Schaefer]

Do you, do you feel like too that there's something to do with like the receptors, like your androgen receptors have been like kind of ringed out or something like that. It's like a sponge that's dry and then it's just. Then all of a sudden you feed and it's just like they're just, they've been waiting totally for that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Totally. Sleep is another one that you'll notice in fact as you get leaner. And I've experienced this also for me it's right around 7%. For other people it'll be a little higher or maybe lower for some genetic anomalies. But when I get down below 8, 7%, I don't care how great I'm doing everything, my sleep starts to suffer. I just don't get as good of a sleep. We talked about joint pain, skin, hair, nails, mood changes big time, you guys, you're just feel much better and healthier. And it's only relatively recently that we attributed being shredded to healthy. This was almost never the case in human history, especially not women. When women chase a six pack. Some guys can get a six pack and remain pretty healthy and keep their hormones somewhat. Okay, I'm talking about natural men. You know, you could do it if you do everything right. All stuff. Women who chase a six pack, you're pretty much guaranteed to screw up your hormones. Like it's gonna happen. In fact, I just saw somebody post in our forum, it was a woman, she posted a selfie. She's like, I know it's unhealthy, I know it's this and. But I want to see a six pack. And it's like, well, I mean she knows it's gonna, it's gonna mess things up. But chasing that is not a good idea. Now to the average person, you probably don't need to hear gain body fat. Cause you're probably dealing with too much of it. But there's a lot of fitness fanatics where, when I would coach them, I would tell them, you know what our goal is? I gotta get your body fat up. Yeah, I gotta get your body fat percentage up. Otherwise this isn't, this just isn't gonna work.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, very much. Is something that becomes an obsession. It's that, that one thing that you think is gonna give you the ultimate version of you to display. Right. You know what's funny too, it's tough to say Add more.

[Sal DeStefano]

And you know what's funny about this? When they do surveys, broad surveys on men and women, and asked them what is the ideal physique for the opposite.

[Adam Schaefer]

Sex, it's so funny you went that way. Because what was going through my head is just like, it's so funny how both men try to achieve this look that women don't even think are very attractive. And women do the same thing. They want the ad. Like I've never met a guy who's just like, oh yeah, I like my chick to have like six pack abs, rocky abs.

[Justin Andrews]

No dudes ever know one guy has ever said that.

[Adam Schaefer]

And it's, it's rare that you hear that from you. You might hear some girls that like that really jacked look like you. But, but it's pretty rare that they like that.

[Sal DeStefano]

I think if you stay like in our fitness fanatic space, then you'll get a little distorted opinions. True. But when they do like these big surveys, what do they find? Women like men who are fit, around 13 to 15%. Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

12 to 15, I think is the number fit and healthy.

[Sal DeStefano]

Now here's why our preferences are wired for fertility and health and longevity.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's what it signals.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yes. So it's like the strong, able bodied, fertile man. That's the look I'm looking for. It's not 9%, it's not a 9% body fat percentage. Men typically like a woman around 22%. You know, fit, healthy, as high as 25, 26%.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

In many cases not the, you know, 17, 16. Now if you ask men, like you said what they would want and women what they think they want, it's this really strange, distorted, yeah, yeah, look or whatever, but I'm just encouraged. I'm trying to encourage people, you know, listening right now, you know who you are as you're listening to this. Like you might want try going through a season, a 60 day season of, you know, being healthy, exercise, and then your goal is like, I'm gonna get my body fat percentage up and then let me track all the other stuff that happens and see what this feels like. You'll be blown away and it may just change your relationship with fitness paradigm. Might just shift completely in a direction that'll be really, really beneficial.

[Adam Schaefer]

Have you, since we're on the subject of body fat percentage, have you DEXA scan lately?

[Sal DeStefano]

I've never done a DEXA scan. Oh, you haven't? No, never. Oh, I don't think I really either, no.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, I know you don't.

[Sal DeStefano]

Care about.

[Adam Schaefer]

Body fat I didn't even think you knew what it was, you know.

[Justin Andrews]

Shut up, dude.

[Sal DeStefano]

Are you saying this because of the conversation earlier about our, our combined body weight?

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

I was like really concerned about our general weight.

[Adam Schaefer]

There's a, there's an, there's an off air joke that for 10 years now we've all, we've, we've been able to maintain the same body fat percentage, the same weight roughly. They combine combined.

[Sal DeStefano]

So in other words, one guy gets smaller, someone else gets bigger. It's always the same shifts.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

We have this kind of average going.

[Sal DeStefano]

To know otherwise it throws off the universe.

[Justin Andrews]

We need the balance.

[Adam Schaefer]

So the off air joke is I've been texting Sal like, hey bro, it's your turn to get small now.

[Justin Andrews]

You need to lean out a little.

[Adam Schaefer]

Bit because I'm trying to get jacked right now. So. So it's gonna throw out, going to throw off our average.

[Justin Andrews]

You know, I was like trying to turn me to a marathon runner.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, like otherwise. And otherwise Justin needs to get anorexic because if he doesn't, if, if you don't get smaller and I keep getting bigger, it's going to throw the universe off.

[Sal DeStefano]

Justin has to be beefcake, dude, his head's too big. You look like a lollipop.

[Justin Andrews]

The weirdest looking, weirdest looking skinny guy you've ever seen.

[Sal DeStefano]

Dude, he's a big. He has to, he has to fit. Dude, I'll do a Dexa with you. I've never done one before, so I.

[Adam Schaefer]

Want to go do it right now. I always like doing it when I'm on like when I'm just on the front end.

[Sal DeStefano]

Because right now you're trying to do what big build. Yeah. So can I just say this right now? I'm just gonna say it on air that it's so funny to me how fast you build muscle. It's. You just started it look like you gained 10 pounds.

[Adam Schaefer]

So.

[Sal DeStefano]

No, honestly, literally, literally, you look like.

[Adam Schaefer]

You put on, think about this environment.

[Justin Andrews]

The, like the last few months you've been what you've been going through and now all of a sudden you're like shifting back at the house.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, I mean I've just, Yeah, I just have been able to do like three workouts. So.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, you do gain, you gain muscle real fast.

[Adam Schaefer]

I'm on like three weeks right now. So I'm on three weeks of like really, really good consistency, really good diet and most importantly, better sleep. I wouldn't even say so. I scored my first 80, I got an 89, which was like one of the best scores I've ever had. And I got an 82 or the FIR. And in the last 45 days, those are the first times I've ever touched the 80s. 70s has been good for me. I've had some really rough ones and so. And I think the hardest part or what's new. It's so funny doing this for so long. Every time I do this, it presents different challenges. So, so my challenge this time is like I gotta really be careful. I'm really dancing this line of like I, I'm, you know, you know, I'm. We're all like this, right? We get in that rhythm and I want to go. You know what I'm saying? Right.

[Sal DeStefano]

So.

[Adam Schaefer]

And for me, I know that my sleep has never suffered so much and I haven't. And I'm not getting good sleep. And so I'm very mindful of like, you know, really keeping the volume kind of low and, and the intensity moderate while I'm going. I also know too, when I first get back in, like I was just, I. Today's my day in the life. So I was just sharing the story with, you know, I'm back to taking the kion pills.

[Sal DeStefano]

The amino acids.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, the amino acids.

[Sal DeStefano]

And so because I'm probably one of the reasons why you're gaining. So first of all, you have a lot of muscle memory, but you were eating, I would assume under 140 grams of protein a day.

[Adam Schaefer]

For sure.

[Sal DeStefano]

I'm way even around 100.

[Adam Schaefer]

I'm so like, I, you know, and maybe I'm different than a lot of people, but when, when I'm not paying attention or really tracking and I'm a meat, I'm always a meat eater.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Like, I mean, I love.

[Sal DeStefano]

You'll just eat two meals.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, but exactly, I'll eat, I'll eat two meals that are 50, maybe 60. A big, a big steak meal that's giant is 60 grams of protein. And so I easily. And then maybe I had like a bar or something today. So you're talking about, you know, 50, 50 and another 20 grams in a, in a, in a day is like a. Could be a very normal day, you know. And I'm a 230 pound guy, like, so that's way under my protein.

[Sal DeStefano]

Have you been able to hit 200?

[Adam Schaefer]

No, I'm not even close to 200 yet. So I. Well, 150 to 2, 200 would be like a perfect day. And I've had a couple that are around there. But so right now, just the aminos. Three times a day I take them. So that's what I. When I did that, when I. That makes a big difference when I did that whole comeback series. And it was after that, that interview we did with, with Keon. And you know, he, he really sold me on the science of especially if you're somebody who's low. And I know that's me. And so what I'll do is I'll. I'll be taking it three times a day until I start getting really consistent with around 200. When I get around 200, I'll probably scale back down to like once a day. I'll still take them.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

And then once I start pushing 220, but that's. I'm a ways away from like, like where you're at right now, where you don't miss too.

[Sal DeStefano]

What is it? Is it five or six of them?

[Adam Schaefer]

It's six is what it calls for.

[Sal DeStefano]

Three times a day.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. Yeah. And I do. Three times.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Of course that makes them big difference.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, no, it, it helps while I'm, While I'm. I know that I'm running low. Plus I need all the help I can get recovery wise right now with my sleep not optimal, it's hard to.

[Sal DeStefano]

Eat a lot of protein. People don't understand.

[Adam Schaefer]

I think everybody. I think people overestimate you because you eat, you eat the meat. Like, because again, I'm a meat eater. I can easily go eggs in the morning, a meat lunch, and a meat dinner. And so you and your head and I, and I got full, right. I'm full for the day. So someone might go like, oh, that's.

[Sal DeStefano]

A lot of protein. For me to hit 220 every day, you have to go after it, Go after it. And I have to have at least one 50 gram shake a day. I tried doing all food so hard, bro, it's like, it's like another job.

[Justin Andrews]

It is if you're over £200.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

It's kind of crazy.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's like, oh, bro, that's a lot. So at the end of the night, I'm like, every night I have a shake to hit that number. Because otherwise it's like, okay, cool, I'm gonna go eat another 40 grams of protein right now. I don't want to eat anymore.

[Adam Schaefer]

And so people understand too. So people understand too, because I know there, there's, there's a, there's the other side of the spectrum of just longevity and health. Sure. But I mean, I'm in the game of like, you. You made the comment on it right like that. You guys, part of why I rebound so fast is because I. I check the boxes and I do it in this. It's like, of course, I could get away with only hitting 150 and still get in shape and be healthy and do those things, but I know if I'm hitting optimal protein, I have the perfect balance of intensity and volume. I focus on my sleep. I'm taking my. If I do those things and I do it appropriately, to me, the. The real art of this is in. In what's taken me decades to get there is the. The. The. The real right balance of. Of volume and intensity. It's really easy to be off or on. It's real easy to, like, ah, I'm not doing. I don't do anything. And it's real easy. Like, I'm motivated now. Headphones in. Go get it. And I'm. I'm chasing that sore feeling where I've learned. And it's taken me a lot of. A lot of years of the wrong way or overdoing it to, like, knowing that sweet spot of, like, just get in the gym, touch a few of the compound lifts that I need to. Don't even have to, like, push it really hard. It's like, man, my body's coming off a crazy layoff and recovery. I don't need. I don't need much. And. And then. And then just keep. And then just. Just a little every time I come back to that exercise. So a little bit more.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, I'm doing. What I'm starting to do with myself is one week out of the month, maybe is when I push it with the volume a little bit. And I don't mean a lot. Like, I'll push it a little bit with the volume. Three weeks out of the month, I kind of cruise. And you know what the result of that is? Better results. Just way better results. So. And I have. I'm literally, like, having to track it because my tendency, like a lot of people who love working out, is to make it, you know, every week, push it a little bit, because I love it. I'd rather spend time in here. I've been having a good time. I listen to music. I'm doing my thing. So now it's like, no, no, stop right there. Five sets. That's it. I got to stop five sets and get creative with it or whatever.

[Adam Schaefer]

I really feel like most people fall on either end of the spectrum. Very few people have got the. Right down the Middle. And I'm not even claiming that I think I got it perfect. I've gotten better at getting right there because it's either you're the, and this is for all coaches that are listening to, is learning to, to, to figure that out with your clients because you're, you're going to get both clients. You're going to get the fitness athlete addicts and you're also going to get the people that are the couch potatoes that have a hard time being motivated just to walk. And it's like understanding that about who you're coaching shifts the way I coach completely, totally. And so I, and I, so I know that about myself that I've teeter on the athlete intensity, want to get after it person. And so I know that when I get in that mode it's like I've got to be constantly reminded what people.

[Sal DeStefano]

Need to understand about athletes. Even first off, there's a, there's a bias with high level athletes. What you have with high level athletes are they're typically younger. They typically, this is what they do. This is like their job and they're genetically gifted on top of it and they've been doing it for years. So let's start there. But even those people have an in season and off season. So when we look at an athlete's training regimen, well, whatever's posted, we're typically looking at their in season. I guarantee nobody trains like that all the time. You can't, they'll injure themselves. They figured this out, by the way, so their training doesn't look like that all the time. In season may look crazy. Again, we're dealing with a pro athlete. We're dealing with a genetic anomaly. They're young, but their off season is very, very different. You can't train like that all the time. So even for fitness fanatics who are very consistent, you got to think to yourself in season, off season and in season is a lot shorter than off season is most of the year. That doesn't mean you don't train. You just approach or train differently. And then strength training in particular, we're just trying to build muscle and build strength. If you want to build endurance and stamina and resilience, it looks different. So then you can add more volume, then you can add more whatever. And then if you're in a particular sport that requires mental toughness, requires resilience, well then there's a value in beating yourself up. But it's not for the physical physiological strength. It's about like I got to be Able to take a. Take punishment. Yeah, because my sport involves that, you.

[Adam Schaefer]

Know, when you're with Justin, when you're. When you're good, consider yourself, you know, inconsistent or. Or not doing not, like, in your rhythm or what like that. What does your training look like? Because you're. You're different than, like, how I train and how we train. So with that, like, if you. When you say you're, like, off or I'm not training consistently, what does that look like?

[Sal DeStefano]

It's.

[Justin Andrews]

I mean, for me, it's definitely low volume. So I. I go way low volume if I'm, like, off. And it's really just. It's kind of somewhat of a maintenance mentality to it, to where I. I hit, like, a few of the major lifts. Like, it's either squats and overhead press. It's like. It's something that's a big mover. And then I'm. I'm concerned more on, like, movement at home and all day. And so I'm, like, more focused on the dogs, the kids, the this, the that. Everything's outward focus, and it's not, like inward focus. I just. I'm really just, like, touching weights and, you know, it's. It's not like it's an everyday thing. I'll do, like, one thing.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

You know, or, like, two things, you know, and it's, like. It gets to a point where I don't feel strong anymore, and I feel kind of, like, doughy. And I'm like, dude, no, I don't like this. And then I'll get after it and then get consistent. I'll go through spurts of, like, you know, two, maybe three months, and then I'm just. I start coasting again. I'm, like, focused on my kids. I'm focused on.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

You know, the dogs. I'm focused on, like, moving life over to a new house and. Yeah. You know, all this other stuff. But, yeah, I've. I've learned to kind of just navigate through that a little bit better by at least making sure, like, I get. I get some gross motor movement in there that's, like, substantial.

[Sal DeStefano]

You have a pretty healthy approach. What I noticed about you, Justin, is it appears. Correct me if I'm wrong, it looks like what you do is you make sure you can still do certain exercise or movements. Yeah, that's your test. Like, can I still do this? Can I move?

[Justin Andrews]

Well, it's very performance driven, like. Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

And I've noticed that with you, when you're coasting is you'll go out There. And I can tell what you're doing is you're trying. Can I still do this? Can I still move?

[Adam Schaefer]

Can I swing the clubs?

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, no, this hurts a little bit. And then you kind of ramp it up a little bit.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, exactly.

[Justin Andrews]

Exactly.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

And then I'll see, I'll see a weak spot or something like that. And then I'm like, oh, hyper focused on that dude.

[Sal DeStefano]

Speak. Go ahead.

[Adam Schaefer]

No, I just, what he said is something else that as, as I've gotten older, I've been better about this and is, and I don't know if it's just trainer wisdom, is that when I'm, when I'm off and inconsistent, I do the same thing, is that I'm better. Like if I'm, if I am not disciplining myself to get in and get those lifts in that I know are so valuable, then I at least go, okay, this is the time where I, I choose to clean the car. I go do more yard work, I go do more physical activities. And so at least I'm creating movement. I never want to be inconsistent in the gym. And then also sitting on my couch. Yeah, I never do that. It's like I feel the same way. I feel like that's like, hey, you didn't go live today. Like you need to go for that walk or that hike or oh, hey, you need to go outside and go do yard work. Or like that's. I've been good about that as I've gotten older of. Okay. And then also even with the flexibility in the diets, like, you know, I like there, there's a lot of foods I like and I enjoy when I'm strength training is when I get to do those things. When I, when I'm, when I'm sending a loud signal that my body needs to build muscle.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Then I allow these, these extra calories. And I still make say though that simple rule of still go get that protein first. And then if I still want that treat tonight, I'll go have that treat tonight on top of that. But go get that first because I've strength trained. I know I sent a loud signal to build muscle. So I know a lot of those extra calories are going to go to some good work versus okay, I'm not strength training at all. All I'm really doing is walking and moving around. Not the time, because all, all that extra walking and moving around, which is not a lot of calorie burn. I could easily wipe that out with one dessert afterwards. And so that's my way of going, like, if I really want that, I better get in the gym tomorrow and then I'll have it like that. That balance has kept me in that teens, always in the mid teens body fat percentage and I probably fluctuate from, you know, when I'm, when I'm on it, you know, 10%, when I'm off of it, 15, 16%. And that's always been, no matter where my training volume is.

[Sal DeStefano]

No, that's good. You know, was the biggest game changer by far for me was fixing my gut health. That was such a game changer. It's like I can't even when I.

[Justin Andrews]

Haven'T heard you complain about that a long time.

[Adam Schaefer]

The first year, couple years of our podcast was bro.

[Sal DeStefano]

For, for probably seven years I was on and off, sometimes better, sometimes worse, but never good.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

And it's such a game changer. Like I, I can eat now 3,500calories of, you know, healthy food and it doesn't bother me. My gut health used to bother me so much that even if I clean healthy things that I didn't react to, if I just ate too much of it, yeah, it would cause problems. It wasn't until I treated myself for parasites, that's what made the biggest difference.

[Adam Schaefer]

Do you know what was the biggest, Was the parasites. Because I know you've always been good about the probiotics. You know, you've been good.

[Sal DeStefano]

All those helped. Everything helped okay. But I, there was definitely parasites. I went on and I don't recommend this. This is not recommended for people. But, you know, I, you know, I tend to do my own thing. I did fenbendazole and ivermectin, which, you know, both those together would pretty much kill any, anything you have. And again, fenbendazole is for animals, but hey, here we go. I did it anyway and it worked miraculously. And then there was a gut healing process after that where actually had probably some damage that had to heal. So it just got better and better and better and better to the point now where you guys, if I, I mean, I still can't have dairy, but that's been an issue since I was a kid. If I, if my gut is off a little bit now, it's better. Within a few hours in the past, if my gut was off, I was like, here I go, two weeks of bad gut.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

And it was terrible for two weeks. One bad, you know, issue would last me two weeks. Now it's like, you know, I'll be, I'll be okay by this afternoon. Which is so wild. It's so wild.

[Adam Schaefer]

What I feel like I see in you is that I feel like I can tell now because I've known you for so long and you used to be. Your guts like that you get, you get puffy face like I do when you, when you eat, when you eat off. But that's all you get.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

You don't get like a. No, I'm screwed up golf. I see your dick starts to hold some water, I'm like, oh, somebody enjoyed himself.

[Sal DeStefano]

There's that one stupid dude we interviewed, Jordan Peterson. We pinned it at the top of our Instagram. That's when we came back from London. Yeah. And I was eating all kinds of beans on toast and pastries. It's like all kinds of gluten. Yeah. Every time I look at that video, I'm like, dude, your face, bro.

[Adam Schaefer]

But I mean, what up? What. I mean, that's what I think has got to be great for you because I, I react that way. That's how I've never been. Really, really bad gut stuff. But I definitely will hold. Hold water. Like, I'll hold. I'll hold water and you'll.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, I'll feel it. I'll feel my hands, you know.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

You got a little, little mark on your leg. You're like, what's going on?

[Justin Andrews]

When you see the impression of your sock, like, just like smash.

[Adam Schaefer]

I can't tell you how many people that clients suffer from that. That have no idea that that's all that is.

[Sal DeStefano]

Dude.

[Adam Schaefer]

They think that they got fat or they did something wrong. It's just like, yeah, you just, you, you ate something that. Your butt and, and you. Maybe you don't have crippling gut issues like you had before, but it's enough for your body to get inflamed, retain water. You're a big enough. Tall enough person. Yeah. I mean, that could be pounds of water.

[Sal DeStefano]

I could fluctuate 10 pounds of water.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yes.

[Sal DeStefano]

No problem.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yes, no problem. And so, I mean, obviously you're a big guy. So put that in perspective of a 130 pound girl.

[Sal DeStefano]

I mean, five pounds.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, five pounds. She can go up and, and then. And when you look puffy to the average eye that looks fat.

[Sal DeStefano]

Fat.

[Adam Schaefer]

You look fat. It's like.

[Sal DeStefano]

And so I've held water to the point where I was 8% body fat, but I didn't have abs. Abs. Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

No, me too.

[Sal DeStefano]

Because of water. Yes, because I ate a bunch of. Because gluten will do that for me for sure. 100 gluten I'm gonna hold water.

[Adam Schaefer]

I also feel like when you do stuff too, you get thirstier, so you're pounding more water and you're drinking more, so that just retains more.

[Sal DeStefano]

And, you know, the crazy thing about this, we got out of the holidays, I was hanging out with my family, and we were all talking about health and nutrition. And then we got to the topic of parasites. And one of my family members, like, yeah, but that's like third world countries. I'm like, yeah, they get parasites much more often than we do. It's much more rare in first world areas. However, if you're an adult and you've never treated yourself for parasites ever, and you eat raw vegetables, salad, sushi.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

There's a decent chance you were exposed to parasites over the course of, you know, your life.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. So they just don't go away, right?

[Sal DeStefano]

No, no, they live in you, dude. Yeah, they live in you and they just grow and they chill houses. You know, we're talking about workouts earlier, and, you know, there's. There's. You know, genetics make a big difference in many different directions, right? You have genetics for intelligence. You have genetics for athletic ability. You also have genetics for just capacity. And I. I ran across. So Rocky Marciano is one of my favorite fighters of all time. That's weird.

[Justin Andrews]

I would never get that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Just get it safe. Has nothing to do with these Italian.

[Justin Andrews]

Right?

[Sal DeStefano]

Listen, it started because he was Italian, but I also, like, I love watching old fight films. One of my favorite things. I love watching old fight films. And they're all so different. The way the fighters used to fight, and Marciano had this relentless attack.

[Justin Andrews]

He.

[Sal DeStefano]

The. The way he beat people was. He would just. It was like the. The 10th round was like the first round. He was just on you, wasn't he?

[Adam Schaefer]

Wasn't his nickname the Raging Bull?

[Sal DeStefano]

No, no, that was Lamata.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, that's.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, Jack Lamata. Okay. So Marciano was just relentless. He was just on you, stuck on you. You couldn't get him off you. And he would punch everything. And one of his. He knew he would outlast you, so he hit you in the arms, and he make your arms dead. And then he'd kill you, right? He was just. And people would talk. And I watch these old fights, bro. You look at this guy, you're like, he just doesn't get tired. He just beats the. He just comes after him the whole time. So I came across his. His workout regimen when he was in camp. So this is when he's getting ready for A fight seven days a week. You guys want to know what he did se. This is every day.

[Justin Andrews]

Every day he would probably kill your average person.

[Sal DeStefano]

In the morning he would wake up and run 10 miles. Then he'd go to the gym and he'd spar 30 to 40 rounds. 30 to 40 rounds, what? Then in the evening he would run five miles and he would swim two miles. Now, every day he took a nap and every night he would get close to 10 hours of sleep. But that's what he did seven days a week. So no wonder when he was in a match, I was like, this is a piece of cake. Yeah, dude, I'm going to keep going.

[Justin Andrews]

That's so insane.

[Sal DeStefano]

Never stop.

[Justin Andrews]

That's crazy.

[Sal DeStefano]

I know. I read that. I'm like, that is brutal. So what I, he was a small heavyweight.

[Adam Schaefer]

So what I always think is interesting when you see like, like the, these, these genetic anomalies, these people that handled all that, that trained at that volume. So that. And then how much science has evolved today, it's like, what if you gave that guy red light therapy, the perfect balance of volume and intensity. Like the right supplements, the right.

[Sal DeStefano]

First off, he would be too small to fight as a heavy. He was £180 if I'm not mistaken by the way. One of the reasons why boxers he was only 180.

[Adam Schaefer]

He thought he was 180.

[Sal DeStefano]

185.

[Adam Schaefer]

He may be short.

[Sal DeStefano]

He was just boxers. I mean remember this is back didn't lift.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, but he still looked, he looks, he looks thick in his pictures.

[Sal DeStefano]

He doesn't look like if you saw him off. Yeah, off training. So in those days and you still see boxers do this now, but he would gain like 50 pounds because when he was done training he was like, I'm just going to enjoy myself.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, I imagine that that crazy of intensity in a camp you're just.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. £188. There he is right there. So not a big dude for a heavyweight, you know, because now you got heavyweights. 220. 230. Yeah, dude. You guys should watch some of his fights.

[Justin Andrews]

It was just I remember list like this is mma. But I remember Kane Velasquez was like.

[Sal DeStefano]

Famous for his like gas tank.

[Justin Andrews]

Ridiculous gas tank.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Just the motor and, and that's a fighter you just don't want to fight. Like they're just going to keep going relentlessly. They have, they have no. Like I need to get some rest or catch my breath.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's also the other heavyweight who's a local guy that over here, he's local heavyweight that it was known for. Yeah. D.C. his gas tank.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, he's a. Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

World class. World class wrestler.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

But he doesn't. What's crazy what I. Yeah, him and.

[Sal DeStefano]

Kane, they're not shredding.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. But they're both trained together.

[Adam Schaefer]

Him, he doesn't look. He doesn't look like he would. He would take you deep into the water. Yeah, no, he'll.

[Sal DeStefano]

He'll give you some.

[Justin Andrews]

I met him a couple times in person. Yeah. Yeah, I know.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's.

[Justin Andrews]

It's crazy how like he. He just dominated everything.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

I mean, except for Jon Jones, but.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, it's. I remember back, so way back. I've told the story before, but a friend of mine was a. One of the top level competitors, as in the ufc, as a middleweight, and he was getting ready to fight. And at this time, I was at my peak fitness and whatever, and I was nowhere near his level, but we were friends. And he's like, hey, can you come? We're going to do round robin. I need a bigger guy. I was bigger than him to come roll with. And there's gonna be four of us. Round robin. And they were all pro fighters. Yeah. Okay. And me. Yeah. So I'm in there. And now it was pure grappling.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

So I'm. I'm decent. I'm a purple bell. I'm decent. I'm not like the greatest or whatever, but I'm okay and I'm strong. All that stuff. The difference between with those guys and me was they were so relentless. They were stuck on me the whole time. It was like I couldn't get them off. And then I gasped. I just couldn't handle that. That intensity of just on you, on you. That's what they talk when they talk about a fighter's heart. Yeah, that's what they're talking about is their gas tank. Because you lose your gas tank, heart goes out the window.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, you always, you know, you always see that. I don't know how much you guys follow the ufc, but they do the. What's the. If it's slipping me right now, the show that Dana does where it's like, to get the guys on the show, it's not Contender, but it's another. Another show. It's something like, I can't, I don't know, Ultimate Fighter. So the Ultimate Fighter.

[Sal DeStefano]

And.

[Adam Schaefer]

And they only go like two, two or three rounds. And normally the guy, the. The guys that end up making it and go beyond are just the guys that could go three rounds with. With like full on three rounds. Most of the guys you see after round two are just. Because they gave it all they got for two rounds and they don't have it. And the guy who, who can just can stay on it for three rounds.

[Sal DeStefano]

You know how annoying it is when you're, when you've done this and you're sitting and watching a fight and you hear some dude or just go punch him, dude, just go, bro, go wrestle your buddy for two minutes. Just go wrestle full speed for two minutes. Tell me how you feel.

[Justin Andrews]

Try and lift your arms after that.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, there's a real.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's super hard.

[Adam Schaefer]

There's a real art to that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Anyways, speaking of fighting, I was, we were talking off air. I thought this would be funny to bring up. I just. As we were talking, I don't know why I remembered in when I was a kid, some of the things that we would do. We didn't have tech, so we'd come up with ways of having fun. And we talked about pencil fighting.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, yeah, that's right.

[Sal DeStefano]

I don't know.

[Adam Schaefer]

I don't think it's a thing anymore.

[Justin Andrews]

Pencil fighting. You have Dylan.

[Adam Schaefer]

Did you guys ever pencil fight where you. Dylan's like, he has no idea what it is.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay, so you know what pencil fighting was? You get a pencil.

[Adam Schaefer]

Doug, did you know anyone? Pencil fighting?

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

I think we did it, but not to the seriousness.

[Adam Schaefer]

It was, it was so serious.

[Sal DeStefano]

This was like bragging.

[Adam Schaefer]

This goes all the way back to like third, fourth, fifth.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, yeah. Elementary school.

[Adam Schaefer]

I, I could. Yeah, I can think elementary school, this. And I mean, the principal's office must have made a fortune because they had this. They had, they had, they had a, they had a, A pencil machine. And it was a quarter. But it was the good thick. Yeah, thick pencils. Not them cheap number two or those.

[Sal DeStefano]

Ones that were made out. They seem like they were made out of like plastic.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, you're hard. They were hard, right? And they were. But they were 25 cents and they were decorated all cool. You didn't know what you got. You put the quarter in, you turn.

[Justin Andrews]

It, you come out the ones that were super cylindrical.

[Adam Schaefer]

Done, done, done. And then, and then, you know, was such. My parents let me have a quarter for that day so I could get a new pencil. And that was like, you come, you come to class and, you know, and you said it earlier, you, you, you take, you rip the eraser off and.

[Sal DeStefano]

You, you flatten the metal part.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, we bite it. You bite it. You bite it down with your teeth to get it real nice and sharp. And then, then you have the ax. You had the move where you, you wrap it around the knuckles.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's so funny. There's so many techniques to. Because what you do.

[Adam Schaefer]

Some guys, some guys were, Some guys were like this, you know, and that was me. That was this. So. But it's so funny that that was a thing.

[Sal DeStefano]

And I'm like, oh my God, get a crowd watching.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh yeah, yeah. It was a big deal. All the kids would circle around in the chairs.

[Sal DeStefano]

So. So, Dylan, the way it worked is you would hold your pencil like this and I would hit yours and then it was your turn and whoever broke the pencil. One.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

So you just go back and forth until. Yeah. And they're really good dudes. If you knew what you were doing, it was first shot. One shot.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

You break the pencil. Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

That was a good time.

[Sal DeStefano]

You guys remember making. I don't know what you. I don't even think we had a name for him. But you would fold paper into like a bullet and you'd hit it. You use rubber bands.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

1.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, those taught my son.

[Adam Schaefer]

Those hurt.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

I like the little football game too. With the football triangle. Football paper. Yeah. With the field goal post. Those. I mean you, dude, you get so bored. I mean it was, that was school for me. That was all of school for me. I learned everything else after that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Ask me, ask me what I learned after pencil fighting that morning.

[Justin Andrews]

I knew all that stuff, dude.

[Adam Schaefer]

So it's so interesting though, the. I mean, obviously as a kid you don't ever think of that, but like the value of that creativity, the ability to.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yes.

[Adam Schaefer]

Come up with these games and these ideas.

[Justin Andrews]

Prison science.

[Adam Schaefer]

And entertain yourself. Well, it's, it's, it's, It's a wonder why we have such a hard time with these. Especially both girls and boys, but especially young boys that aren't doing any of these things. When they get to go home, they get to be on these video games and iPads like crazy. And then they got to sit in these classrooms where they don't do any of this stuff. You can't compare.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's like how can you, how can you come up with anything that's as entertaining?

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, that's what I mean. It's just like Dolby surround sound.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Pencil fighting sucks.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's what I mean is like you, you. We've, we've over stimulated them so much. So much with tech and then we asked them to go sit in a classroom for seven hours and eight hours a day.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, I had this thought the other day because my, my kids, my little one, my, my four year old come up to me and be like, I'm bored. Do you know I never told my parents I was bored because if I did.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh my God.

[Sal DeStefano]

What would your mom say? Yes. Oh, I got something for you to do.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, go fold some laundry. Oh, here, go clean this.

[Justin Andrews]

Go dig a hole. Outside.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, go outside. My verse is go outside.

[Sal DeStefano]

Figure it out. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Are kids gonna invent anything now? Well, I mean, this is a real question.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, they're AI friends.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, the counter is that you have.

[Justin Andrews]

They're doing it with the ye kids.

[Adam Schaefer]

That are entrepreneurs, that are, that are doing stuff that is, is way beyond what we're doing. I mean, there's, there's kids now that know how to use all these prompts way better than any of us in this room right now.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, sure.

[Adam Schaefer]

And so it, you know, the, the positive side is some of them are focusing the energy in that direction. But I'd still make the argument it's still really tough for those, those same kids.

[Justin Andrews]

But aren't those. Yeah. Okay, so improvements, I guess an innovative new thing.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, well, I mean, you could say innovative and new as far as creating businesses. I mean, these, I mean, listen.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, no, I know you make the argument.

[Adam Schaefer]

The original inspiration, so when I tell the story about Mind Pump, before I knew you guys and knew it was gonna be Mind Pump, was I was playing basketball with a 22 year old kid. Now I was doing the medical marijuana, so I had the cash flow to come in and out of the gym. But yeah, I was playing basketball with a kid at 22 years old at 2 o' clock in the afternoon on Tuesday. And he had nice sneakers, drove a nice car, went to church. So I knew he was a good kid. So I didn't think he was doing anything shady to be able to. And I'm like, how are you doing this? And he had built a following on Facebook of 10,000 people and was flipping sneakers and making a good living. And so, I mean, I don't know.

[Sal DeStefano]

If it's that so much. It's more like, okay, I've noticed this with Doug. Doug's a good example because we didn't grow up with tech, but we definitely used it more than Doug did because he's an even different generation. You guys ever notice when we go to the airport or somewhere and we're sitting there, we got nothing to Do. He's the last one to be on his phone the whole time. He can sit there just because he.

[Adam Schaefer]

Knows how to use it.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

I just figured you have to turn it over.

[Adam Schaefer]

He still hasn't figured out how to turn it on.

[Sal DeStefano]

He's got a jitterbug phone. What's that one phone for all people with a big, the church. The big buttons.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's his buttons. He's just got big buttons, big ass buttons on it. He didn't even, hey, if he knew he could watch TV on his phone.

[Sal DeStefano]

You know you can do that now.

[Justin Andrews]

I know exactly what you're talking about, dude.

[Sal DeStefano]

But no, you know what I mean? Like they're okay with sitting there. They're okay with sitting there and being chill, calm.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

I guess my only point is that the boredom factor.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Like the, the deprivation of stimulus. The figure the shit out without anybody's influence like that. That's what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about building off of everybody else's ideas.

[Sal DeStefano]

Are there, is there value to daydreaming? Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Dude, does anybody daydream differently? Thinking differently than everything that is thrown at us?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. I used to write stories because I was bored. So I'll just write and create stories. Yeah, yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

But you can't blame them for evolving and adapting to the new times.

[Sal DeStefano]

Of course.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Your, your, your dad would be like, well, I would have went out and helped my dad build a fence. Yeah, I didn't have anything to do. I only had a wheel. I only had a wheel to play with.

[Sal DeStefano]

My dad used to say I used to have a stick.

[Adam Schaefer]

Dad's like, I had a stick in a wheel. I'd do that for two hours. I was bored. And then I go build a fence for you know what I'm saying? Like they would go do something productive. Like so, I mean the generation before would do something like that, that we, so you, you adapt to. What? And so listen, I, I, if you look up the, there's interesting stats, I mean, like on young millionaires and the kids that are buying the supercar. Like it's kids. Like the average age of someone who, who owned a Ferrari used to be like 55 or something like that, you know, it's like 35.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well here.

[Adam Schaefer]

And it's, and it's because these, these kids are figuring out how to make money while they sleep.

[Sal DeStefano]

And I get it. No, the money part, I understand that's not everything, but I get it. But I'll read you guys a stat. In fact, I posted this today. On my ex. So I got to pull this up. But this is an interesting stat, right? There's a Morgan Stanley analysis that predicted by 2030, it's around the corner. So you can. Four years, 45%. Almost half of US women between 25 to 44 will be single and without children. Almost half. And so I think.

[Adam Schaefer]

What was it? Well, okay, compare that to what, what it.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh God. That was in history. Oh, 10. Yeah, dude. Almost half. So now what's happening is we've gotten really good at like, like, oh, what I want and I don't want responsibility and I'll think I'll make money and I want a career and I want to be able to go on those vacations and I want to be able to enjoy myself very, you know, self focus, self focus, self focus. And so you basically are. What we're developing are a bunch of middle aged children with no responsibility. And the ramification, of course we can talk about societal ramifications, right? Depopulation, that's going to collapse. How are we going to support ourselves? But it's like you ask these people, especially for women, right? Because they'll reach an age they can't have kids anymore. Majority of them who don't. It was not voluntary. It was because they waited so long and then it became too late. There, there are terrible ramifications of that because we're also more depressed, more anxious and more unhappy. And I think a big part of that is we don't, we're skirting responsibility and we're kind of going down the hedonistic road. And a big part of that is like, I don't want the responsibility. I don't want the responsibility of like, I don't want nobody to tell me what to do. And I don't want to have to not be able to go whenever I want, you know, wherever I want. So that's the thing I'm worried about. Not the money part.

[Adam Schaefer]

I'm not worried about people. It's all connected to the money part too though, when you talk about what you're talking about right now. Because the whole we were sold a lie, especially women were sold a lot in particular to what you're talking about right now. So I just watched a Jordan Peterson clip that talked about how women looking for men, their financial status and success is one of the highest predictors of the man's success of finding a mate. So it's a, it's highly valued whether whether a woman agrees or not that that's like her number one or what it's It's a. It's a. One of the highest predictors of like a man will have a part find.

[Sal DeStefano]

A partner is how much money and.

[Adam Schaefer]

Status in relation to everybody else.

[Justin Andrews]

Right.

[Adam Schaefer]

So the more successful he is, the, the higher chance he is defining a mate and a partner. The reverse is not true. Yeah, I know it does. It is a zero predictor for. For the. The woman to find out. So if you have all these women that are going down the same path as a. These higher. Not only that, but women date across and up. Men won't do. Men are across and down many times. So they don't want necessarily a woman that's. That's high. Higher or makes more. Yes. There's always exceptions to rules. So everybody gets offended by that. That has the wife that makes more money. It's like, yeah, there's. But for generally speaking generalities, that's not. That happens. I mean, I see it in, in my own family. It's. It's tough because they, they. They come from a matriarch. And so a lot of the girls are very smart, very successful, very beautiful and just struggle to find partners because you work so hard like that you can't.

[Sal DeStefano]

And they're probably at the point now if they're starting to get to their 30s, where they're like, yeah, all right, this sucks.

[Adam Schaefer]

No, they're at mid-30s and they, and they realize how much is. But it didn't. It took all the way till then to realize how much that sucks. They were so focused on growing financially and making more money and being more successful. Then they reached out that. That point and realized like. And then. And then you gotta remember too, because they put that much work in, they now also shrink what they're willing to go for. She's not like, I listen, I didn't go 35 years, make all this money, work my ass off, get to this level and you know, their tolerance. And I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna date the guy who's like, you know, kind of getting by in life like that. She wants that or above and that or above.

[Sal DeStefano]

And then the other part of that is too, is that you're 33, you've achieved the success. You're ready to go like, I want kids now. You're now the clock's ticking. I gotta find a guy, develop a relationship, get serious, and then be able to have two kids. You got like three years.

[Justin Andrews]

Guys don't respond well to that.

[Adam Schaefer]

No intensity. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Is not well, doesn't received well, and.

[Adam Schaefer]

Definitely not the ones that are at that level or above.

[Sal DeStefano]

I saw this discussion. I thought it was so good.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, it's a problem.

[Sal DeStefano]

These women that were talking to each other, one was stay at home mom. She had I don't know how many kids. Another one was like, career woman. And the career woman looked at the. The other woman, the stay at home, and she's like, you know, you. So you serve your husband. You go home and just do what he said. And she goes, yeah. What do you do when your boss. What do you do when your boss tells you to do something? You're still. Is he a man, by the way? Oh, you're serving a guy too. Except mine's my husband and this is my family. And I'm like, whoa. Yeah. Talk about like a. Like a lie that a lot of people have been fed.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

You know, that one is. You know that this is the path to. That's more important to happiness, dude.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, and again, by the way.

[Sal DeStefano]

By the way, it's funny because you look at the data, guys are figuring this out. They did this huge survey with Gen Z men, young men, and they listed the things that they. How they would consider themselves successful in life. You know what number one was for the guys? This was shocking to me. This is never. Guys typically don't talk like this. Getting married and having kids.

[Justin Andrews]

Really?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yes.

[Justin Andrews]

Really?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yes. Getting married and having kids, 1 and 2. For them to be. For them to consider themselves successful at life.

[Adam Schaefer]

Interesting.

[Sal DeStefano]

I know.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, I would say that's different than. Even back in the days, you would.

[Sal DeStefano]

Still say, well, I think back in the days it was assumed that, well, if I get a good job and I'm sick. But these guys were like, no, no. If I find. If I get a wiser time, I have like three kids, then I'm. I think I'm doing really well.

[Justin Andrews]

Definitely shifted.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's a big shift.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's interesting.

[Sal DeStefano]

I know. Isn't that cool? It's interesting to me, but it's like, yeah, I communicate this to my kids because I think you don't need to tell a kid to get a good career and make good money. I don't think you need to sell that. Everybody sells that to them. I think you need to sell the other stuff because the other stuff isn't really talked about. I even think it's talked down to as like it's a bad thing.

[Adam Schaefer]

Which that's interesting because I have a different perspective of that because I felt like my mom sold that so hard to the kids because she was so young to get married and do that. That. I feel like that's my. I had. My siblings were like, in such a hurry to just do that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

So I don't know. I think there's a. There's a balance there. There's a balance of.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. You're a different situation, though, bro. You grew up.

[Adam Schaefer]

I know.

[Sal DeStefano]

Rough. Yeah. You had a really.

[Adam Schaefer]

I think everybody grows up rough. It's just different.

[Justin Andrews]

Rough.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

I know that's you being humble. But you. You.

[Adam Schaefer]

Everybody's got.

[Sal DeStefano]

You're. You're an anomaly for sure. The way you turned out.

[Adam Schaefer]

I feel. I feel like everybody's got that. I mean, you.

[Sal DeStefano]

One of the.

[Adam Schaefer]

One of the things that forever shifted that for me is that everybody's trauma, tragic hard is the hardest thing that they ever experienced. Therefore, the way they experience is no different than the way I experience it.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay.

[Adam Schaefer]

So.

[Sal DeStefano]

Sure.

[Adam Schaefer]

So, like, that's. You have to, like, you have to.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's you being humble, dude.

[Adam Schaefer]

Why, thank you.

[Sal DeStefano]

Whatever.

[Adam Schaefer]

But that's. That's. It's true. It's like. Sure, whatever. There's stuff that you've been through in your life that has brought you to tears, knees scared, hard. All of a sudden with that. Me too. They were different things, but for me.

[Sal DeStefano]

It was the hardest. But for you, it was the hardest.

[Adam Schaefer]

Thing you've ever experienced, your life.

[Sal DeStefano]

For me, it was the hardest thing ever experienced life.

[Adam Schaefer]

So, I mean, I think the. The ability to overcome, work through all those things. The. To get through that.

[Sal DeStefano]

The.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's. It's tough for everybody. Speaking of tough, I'm gonna go back to a previous conversation about hitting protein. We have. We have a sponsor in this episode. It's actually a great segue to the previous conversation. The meat sticks from paleo Valley. About 8 grams of protein each.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

You know, if you. If you snack on those and have like four. Yeah, there's 30. 30.

[Adam Schaefer]

Not just that. The other thing I love about Paleo Valley is actually the. And you're the one that pushed me forever to get on it because I've never been a fan of like, I've always been a whey protein person. But what I love about the bone broth protein is that I can push the grams of protein. I can go up to a 50.

[Justin Andrews]

60 upset stomach stuff.

[Adam Schaefer]

No, it's actually helps as much as I love whey. I start going beyond 40, 50 grams of whey in one sitting or I take whey and I mix it with milk or something like that, and it'll It'll upset my stomach right where the bone broth, man, I've. I've done crazy, like four or five scoops of that stuff and it. And it's so. It mixes so well so that it doesn't make this like cakey shake. And so for somebody who struggles to hit protein and, and wants like a really high protein is. You can just put several of those in there.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, bone broth is a protein that's recommended for. To improve gut health. So if you go to a functional medicine practitioner, unless you have issues with histamine, and they'll recommend you take bone broth protein because of the high amounts of amino acids that actually help rebuild the gut. So it's a pro gut health one. Whereas other shakes, I'm like, you got to push it too hard.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, everybody, I think now do they actually have different amino acids than like.

[Sal DeStefano]

Higher amounts of cysteine? And I can't remember the other one, but these are amino acids that build collagen.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, interesting. I just assume that because whey in all the studies is always shown to be like the best for building muscle that it had the highest amino acids.

[Sal DeStefano]

No. So whey is really high in branch chain amino acids, really high in light and leucine, isoleucine, valine.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yes.

[Sal DeStefano]

Bone broth is high in the amino acids that are used to build the integrity of your gut wall collagen. It helps with the junctions in the gut, so it helps seal them. So it's like a pro gut health protein.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, that's interesting. I didn't know that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Y. There's a fatty acid called C15. It's found in dairy. If you take a decent amount of it, you get lowered inflammation, better cognitive function, enhanced fat loss. Look, I noticed the difference. I started using fatty 15. That company uses the C15 fatty acid and I noticed dramatically reduced inflammation. No, this is not fish oil. It's not an Omega 3. I take that as well. But. But I noticed a huge difference from C15. Look up the data yourself. It's incredible. Fatty 15 is the best source of this particular fatty acid. Go check them out. Go to fatty15.com that's fatty15.com mindpump on that link. You'll get a discount, but you gotta use the code mindpump. Back to the show.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

First question is from Burke himself. Do you guys have any thoughts on butt wink when squatting? I've heard that it's really not a concern.

[Adam Schaefer]

This is. We've addressed this a handful of times, but it's Been a long time since we talked about it. And I like us discuss it because it's. There is controversy online. You. You depending on and from both highly intelligent coaches and trainers. And, and that just shows you that there, there's. There's exceptions to the rule. There is a version of the butt wink that I think can be dangerous and bad. And then there's a version of it that's totally safe and.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay, so for people who aren't familiar with what this is, Right. You watch someone from the side going down on a squat and towards the bottom, their tailbone will tuck a little bit and then come up. So they call that butt wink. Generally speaking, I don't like the typical person or client that I'm training to have lots of lumbar movement with a squat. So generally speaking, if I see something like that, I'm trying to limit the range of motion, figuring out areas that are tight, strengthening their core stabilize, work on technique, et cetera, et cetera. Generally speaking, I would prefer the spine to stay stable. Now here's where the controversy comes from. The best squatters in the world, Olympic lifters who get at the bike, they all butt wink at the bottom and nobody gets hurt. Yeah. There's a difference between a high, highly trained, strong, stable, you know, great technique, individual, and then the average person. The average person, especially if you're a beginner, when you get bunk weak butt wink, what happens is your lumbar spine goes to its end range of motion. And then what's supporting the bottom is your discs. Yeah. What happens to an Olympic lifter is because there is some lumbar movement, Olympic lifter is not relying on the disc. They're still strong. They're still supporting the weight.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

And so that's why there's no issue. They also bounce at the bottom, which you're not supposed to.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, if you, if you took a, if you actually took a skeleton or we could do this on an X ray so you could see this. Somebody who goes true ass to grass will have.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Will have that natural tilt. It happens. It's part of the anatomy for your ability to go all the way down there. You can't, you can't maintain the hips out this way and get full at full. Once you get your ass down on your ankles, it'll. It'll slightly come down like that. And so. And, and someone who. That doesn't have any pain and gets that deep in a squat and they don't.

[Sal DeStefano]

Stability.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. And then. And I'm coaching them and I'm talking to them and my, your low back bothering anything like, and they don't have any signs of that, but somebody that's like, oh man, my low back is always on fire and they have this butt wink. And it happens typically sooner than the very bottom of the squat. They have a lot of movement in that low back then, then yeah, then it can become a dangerous, unhealthy thing and it needs to be addressed.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

The only real problem with it is the lack of stability and strength. As you know, they're going through that portion of, of that range of motion and it's like if you don't have like proper bracing technique and you can't like control and you're, you're allowing it to that load to rest on the discs and like just anywhere else, like in these complex compound movements, it's like, you know, if you don't take the time to really reinforce that brace and have protective ability with that, then yeah, it's going to be dangerous.

[Sal DeStefano]

I would say to the average person because the problem with a lot of, sometimes with the advice that you'll hear from, you know, people on social media, even people who are smart, biomechanic experts or whatever, they'll give advice based off of what people who are really skilled, strong and stable can do. Like for example, you'll hear high level strength athletes say things like, you don't need to prime, just warm up with the exercise itself. It's like, well, yeah, but if you watch it, you also know how to do that. Yeah, you watch a skilled bench pressure, bench press, they're priming properly. The average person doesn't know how to activate their lats and, and depress their scapula properly while they're warming up. So you got to do other priming movements for that person. For the average person, when I'm training someone, I don't necessarily want a butt wink. If I see it, I'm like, okay, I'm addressing something. Yeah. If you're like advanced or lift, you know, you're. If I see a advanced lifter with a butt wink and they're stable and strong, that's not an issue.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, yeah. New, new lift. You're gonna pause.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right.

[Justin Andrews]

We're gonna, we're gonna work on making sure that everything is kind of controlled, embraced and accounted for.

[Adam Schaefer]

Most people that have this, especially new lifters, they'll, they'll feel their erector spinae, those, the low back muscles.

[Sal DeStefano]

You'll be tired.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, we'll fatigue and light up. I had this So I had, I had an excessive butt wink when I first started and a lot of that just had to do. To Justin's point, I didn't, I wasn't bracing my core properly. I didn't have proper, I didn't have proper mobility and stability in my hips and my ankles. And once I got good hip and ankle mobility and stability, good core bracing went away completely. But there was a time when I used to do a set of back squats. Didn't even barely break parallel.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yep.

[Adam Schaefer]

And I had to lay on the floor because my low back was, was just on fire. And that's because I had that excessive wink like that. And so. Yeah, no, you don't, you don't necessarily want to see it, but you could also. That's why there's so much controversy online is because to your.

[Justin Andrews]

Some people get away with it, some people can't.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

Next question is from Emily Vittoria. Should rest periods strictly be measured by time or can heart rate be a gauge as well?

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, so, yeah, it's a good question.

[Adam Schaefer]

Both.

[Sal DeStefano]

So if you take someone with incredible. So I'll paint a scenario, right. You have someone with incredible stamina, really high VO2 max endurance athlete. Their heart rate is going to be fine in 15 cover like this. Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

In fact, a 5 rep lift won't even get their heart rate that high now.

[Sal DeStefano]

And so what are they going to just go again? It's, it's both, Right. It's. You're resting not for the heart rate to come down as much as you are for the ATP and ADP ATP to replenish right in the muscles. Because you're training a strength pathway, not an endurance pathway.

[Justin Andrews]

Yep.

[Sal DeStefano]

So now here's why it can be both. If you're deconditioned and. Or you do a set of 20 reps in a barbell squat and three minutes is up, but you're still huffing. Yeah. Wait longer. Your heart rate needs to come down. Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

I'm glad.

[Justin Andrews]

Fatigue and ruin your performance.

[Adam Schaefer]

This most likely is from. I'm glad somebody asked it this way so we could address this because this is exactly what keeps these clients in this kind of circuit training, you know, like way of training. Because they've, they've built their stamina up so well that they're sitting there for 30 seconds and they're like, my heart rate's early down, I'm ready to go, I'm good. And it's like, no, it's not just your heart rate that I'm concerned about. Like, so Time. Time matters here. Time. This is not the per. I don't think the person who's asking this is the person who's doing a set and they're still gas after a three minute rest. They're wondering if they should do longer. This is somebody who's like, I'm ready to go after 30 seconds, so is my rest.

[Sal DeStefano]

These are, the clients are like, I don't need to rest.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's right, yeah. Yes, you do. You want to build muscle, you want to build strength. Especially if you ask a question like this and you feel like you're ready to go after 30 seconds, you're going to benefit a lot by resting. Two and a half, three minutes.

[Sal DeStefano]

The rest periods are what make it strength training. Yeah. More than almost anything else. It's the rest periods that put.

[Justin Andrews]

Not the heart rate, put you in a different energy.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's not the heart rate. You take someone like a Lance Armstrong who is his heart rate resting, heart rate 30. And then maybe after a set of bicep curls it gets to 40. No, you know, saying it's lower, like it has nothing to do with that. It has everything to do with you, the time. So let yourself rest.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

Next question is from L. Byron. Will taking creatine with or close to the concept consumption of caffeine make it ineffective?

[Sal DeStefano]

No, that's fine. So the data, there was a study. Yeah, there was a study that was about that a while ago that showed maybe reduced absorption or efficacy of creatine. Even if you go by based on.

[Adam Schaefer]

I hope not. I've been doing that forever.

[Sal DeStefano]

Even if you go based off that study, I think it was back in 96, I think it was with the study. If you go. Even if you base it off, that's not that much to make a difference. Now there's been lots of studies done on this and the evidence that there's any interference is weak at best. Even though, even if it was a weak, even if there was a slight interference, it's not enough for you to worry. In other words, if you're like, yeah, but that's when I remember to take my creatine, then keep doing it. If you're like, you want to split hairs five times in a row, then fine, separate it from the time you take creatine. But they've done lots of studies on this.

[Adam Schaefer]

When we were kids back in Cell Tech phosphate and Jays. There was, there was a, there was a rumor or theory that orange juice, the citric acid from orange juice impacted the intake of that. If you leave, you Remember that? Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

If you leave powdered creatine in something acidic for a long time, it could degrades a bit.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. Because of the acid.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. You could even do in water. You leave creatine and water for anything. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Really.

[Sal DeStefano]

So you just want to take it.

[Adam Schaefer]

So that makes sense why. Maybe this question's being asked then too? Because then there are, I believe, bang, energy does this. And I believe there's acidity in those energy drinks. And so creatine inside of an energy drink.

[Sal DeStefano]

I, I don't. I'll tell you straight up and maybe someone can prove me wrong, but I don't take creatine in liquid form ever. Yeah. Unless it's like, you know, liposomal delivery process, which is like a cream that you could taste the grittiness of the creatine and so it's stable. But if something looks clear and it says it's got creatine in it, definitely. I don't believe it.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. And definitely if you have. What's that called? We have bubbles where it's like carbonation. Carbonation in it. It's like. Yeah, come on. You're trying to tell me that it's not going to degrade somewhat of the amount.

[Sal DeStefano]

Years ago, this was. This had to be. In the early 2000s, late 90s, there was a creatine company that had liquid crate. It was the first liquid crate. It was a red bottle. And it's like 5 grams liquid creatine. Fastest absorption. Because, you know, you could always make a case.

[Justin Andrews]

Right.

[Sal DeStefano]

If it's in liquid form, you'll absorb it faster. And it was popular for a second. And then they did. Of course, there was a third party that tested it. Zero creatine.

[Justin Andrews]

It was zero.

[Sal DeStefano]

Usually if creatine's in something, you'll feel the grittiness. You'll bite into it or take it and you'll feel the grittiness of the creatine. Because that's, that's how.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, this is why this person's asking. This is why I'm such a huge fan of like the new stuff with like Legion gummies or organifies gummies. Like, do the gummies, like, if you have a hard time remembering to take it and stuff like that. But they might be asking this because I have seen some of these energy drinks starting to put out, and I would not trust that.

[Sal DeStefano]

No. Yeah, Just don't count that creatine.

[Justin Andrews]

Consider that. But yeah, I wouldn't a million years, like count that as.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

Next question is from Chelsea Wellsie, the front of my hips are perpetually sore. Lately, I foam, roll and stretch. Not as much as I should.

[Sal DeStefano]

Any other tips to help mobility and priming? So it's hard to know what the issue is because I don't. I can't see you move.

[Adam Schaefer]

Living them 90 90s.

[Sal DeStefano]

I don't know, you know exactly what you mean by the front of your hips. I don't know what movements cause hip flexor sometimes. I'm so glad you said that, Justin. There's. This actually happened to me a few times. 9 out of 10 times. When you work with somebody, you don't directly try to strengthen their hip flexors.

[Adam Schaefer]

No.

[Sal DeStefano]

They'll get some. Some strength by doing ab exercises there. It's not something I need to focus on, but there have been cases where I had. I had this one. I remember this young lady I trained and we would squat. She'd get pinching in the front of her hips.

[Justin Andrews]

Yes.

[Sal DeStefano]

And I'm like, what is going on? It took me a long time.

[Justin Andrews]

Weak, right?

[Sal DeStefano]

And it was weak hip flexors.

[Justin Andrews]

I've had the same thing.

[Sal DeStefano]

We had to do single leg. Leg raises. Like a pure hip flexor Exercise took care of it. But it's hard to know without watching you move what the issue is. But there's an. There's a strength imbalance going on and a good assessment with a good trainer, a good, you know, movement specialist.

[Justin Andrews]

Typically, if foam rolling and stretching isn't really impacting it on some level, there's probably a strength issue.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. 100.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, this is what I mean, this is why I love all the 90, 90 variations. Because you're going to get some of that in that. I mean, you're going to do. If you're doing 90 90s with the heel lift up off the ground.

[Sal DeStefano]

Activating.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. And you're activating, like, for me, that's. That's done. I know you guys have talked about this before where we've had some people who have actually strengthening the hip flexors or could see as a possibility, but that's rare. It's normally somebody who just has really weak and unstable hips.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

If you just. If you work on hip mobility and strengthen it and activating it While you're in 90 90s tends to address a lot.

[Sal DeStefano]

If you're listening right now, get Maps Prime Pro and do the hip movements in there and you'll find the one that helps. You'll know because you'll do it. You'll feel better.

[Justin Andrews]

Test them all out.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right.

[Adam Schaefer]

And then that's where I would. So I would first, first go to all the 99 sources. I think that's what we're. 90% of the people fall. If none of that is working or you're listening to this and you're like, I've been doing that and I saw this issue, then maybe it is a hip flex weakness. And then actually you can even do.

[Sal DeStefano]

The free one that you did. Adam, when you did some hip stuff there was. Was it Prime Pro webinar? Yeah, PrimePro webinar.com and that, that go through that and Adam does a whole, he does everything in there. Just do the hip stuff and then go try your exercise, see if it makes a difference. And if it does, you've got the answer right there. Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. We'll see you at Mind Pump Media.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB super [e-mail] the RGB Super Bundle includes maps and applies maps performance and maps aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs with detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos. The RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price.

[Justin Andrews]

The ring.

[Podcast Host/Announcer]

The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee and you can get it now. Plus other valuable free [e-mail] if you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review on itunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is Mind Pump.

[Chris Gethard]

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