Adam Schafer (3:51)

T shirt time.

Justin Andrews (3:53)

And it's T shirt time.

Adam Schafer (3:55)

Ah, shit, Doug. You know it's my favorite time of the week.

Justin Andrews (3:58)

We have three winners this week. Two for Apple podcasts, one for Facebook. The Apple podcast winners are Chef Maxwell and Andy Raw117. And for Facebook, we have Daniel David Holden. All three of you are winners. Send the name I just read to iTunesdpumpmedia.com include your shirt size and your shipping address and we'll get that shirt right out to you.

Justin Andrews (additional commentary) (4:18)

All right, real quick, if you love us like we love you, why not show it by rocking one of our shirts, hats, mugs, or training gear? Over@mypumpstore.com I'm talking right now. Hit pause. Head on over to mypumpstore.com that's it.

Adam Schafer (4:31)

Enjoy the rest of the show.

Sal DeStefano (4:33)

All right, you want to get fit, you want to get lean, you want to build muscle, you don't want to track macros. Here's what good nutrition actually looks like. Here's what we're going to do, by the way, we're going to tell you three things to avoid and three things to do. None of this requires tracking macros. If you do this. You'll get great results. It works. Let's go. Yeah. So these are our trainers. We have a lot of. Now we have trainers and coaches that work for Mind Pump. They do a phenomenal job. How many coaches are we at now, Adam? I can't keep track because we keep hiring.

Adam Schafer (5:04)

Well, we've got, we've got four in the studio in training right now, and we had two last week and so. And I know Kyle's keeping at least, at least probably half of those ones on top of the 14 that we already have. So we're going to be approaching in the 20 range real soon here.

Sal DeStefano (5:19)

So they do a great job and they, they, they train and coach people and so lots of questions pop up and it reminds me of the value of, of training people, you know, because I haven't trained people for so long. You get out of. You get out of it and you lose touch a little bit and you kind of forget the questions that people often ask. And this was a common one, you know, this was a common one. Like tracking macros. There's lots of value that comes from that. One of the biggest values from tracking macros, so people aren't familiar. Macros are proteins, fats and carbohydrates. Tracking is just paying attention to them and then trying to hit specific targets of each based on what your goals are, whether it's fat loss, muscle gain, athletic performance and the. There's value in it because of the awareness piece.

Justin Andrews (additional commentary) (6:03)

Yes. The education of it.

Sal DeStefano (6:05)

Yeah. Like most people don't know what's in food or they don't know how much of each of those things they eat or what they actually need to optimize their, their progress. So there's a lot of value in just the awareness piece. There's also value in stage presentation athletes. Like, if you're a bodybuilder, that's a no. You have to. Yeah. Because you're getting down so lean.

Adam Schafer (6:26)

Yeah.

Sal DeStefano (6:27)

You. If you're off by a little bit, it's going to make a big difference. For some athletes, this can be valuable, especially when you're trying to kind of figure out why your energy isn't as good as it could be or your performance is suffering. Sometimes, you know, tracking macros can help, so there's definitely value in it. But there's this under the side of tracking macros which looks like this. Stress, dysfunction.

Justin Andrews (additional commentary) (6:49)

Hyper obsession.

Sal DeStefano (6:50)

Hyper obsession. And so I get why a lot of people don't like doing this or why they want to move away from it. And to be quite honest, for my clients, when I work with my clients, if I did ever have them track, it was never all the time. It was our short.

Adam Schafer (7:07)

Definitely in the beginning I was going to say. So one of the things that I distilled my coaching down to. So when I moved away from working in the big box gyms and went private, one of the barriers to get coached by me was tracking just the first week. And a lot of clients after they did their first week then they got the zoom call or the meeting with me if it was somewhere local and in person. And I, I just wanted that to make them aware of what they're currently and then we could talk about macros and understand that some clients, a percentage of them, we would continue doing macros. Then there was a percentage of them that I wouldn't. The ones that I wouldn't would be the ones that knew they had a problem with it. They knew that it drove them towards orthorexia, that knew that they were, it made them stressful, too stressful. If you said things like that to me, I wouldn't make you continue training eating macros. I would give you all the tips that you're about to go through right now. But I do think that is extremely valuable for at least a week or two of your life that you do it to just bring awareness. And that's just because even the most aware people that tell me how they eat are significantly off. I mean I'm talking even coaches and trainers. This is why I always like to admit this when, whenever I haven't been, I haven't, I haven't tried actually in a long time. So I'm in this place right now and if I was really trying to make moves body fat percentage wise like that I would not fool myself into thinking like oh, I don't need to figure out because we're, our lifestyle is ever changing, our metabolism isn't like this linear thing. It's all, it's ebb and flow based off of stress and age and muscle mass and all these things. And so getting a clear picture of that can tell us a lot about where we're going. And so I think there's a lot of value in that. And then once we're there then we can kind of do a lot of the tips I think 100%.

Sal DeStefano (9:07)

And so for me I would do the same exact thing and then I would move away from it because I would really try to focus on things that focus more on behaviors. So what I mean by that is when you're tracking macros you're looking at numbers, which is okay for the things that we talked about earlier, but most people, well, I mean, the vast majority of people, really, you want to look at things that change your behaviors and really want to do things that you want to avoid, things that cause behaviors that move you away from what you're trying to accomplish, and you want to do things that encourage behaviors that move you in the right direction. So it's really behavior based more than numbers and data based. And I just found that to be, for most people, a much more successful strategy. More like real life is what happened. And so we'll start with the things to avoid, Then we'll move on to the things that you should do. And the reason why we have an avoid list is because the things that are in the avoid list almost always encourage you or move you towards behaviors that make any progress, especially in regards to fat loss, very difficult, if not impossible. Okay. They make them very difficult. So I'll start with the first one, which is to avoid heavily processed foods. You've heard us say this at least a thousand times on the podcast, and here's why. Processed foods or heavily processed foods have been engineered and designed to make you overeat. Now, they're not. The manufacturers or the food scientists that engineer these foods aren't necessarily thinking to themselves, we're going to make people obese. What they're doing is they're engineering food to become irresistible.

Justin Andrews (additional commentary) (10:54)

Yeah, yeah.

Sal DeStefano (10:55)

Like, how can we make this more tasty, more crunchy?

Adam Schafer (10:58)

I mean, that's like saying that the people who made cigarettes weren't trying to make you have cancer. They just wanted you to be addicted to the cigarettes.

Sal DeStefano (11:03)

They want you to smoke more high.

Adam Schafer (11:05)

So the. They're not. They're not trying to make you obese, but they absolutely want you addicted to the food.

Sal DeStefano (11:10)

That's right. And by the way, it's funny you brought up cigarettes, because those are all the scientists that.

Adam Schafer (11:15)

All the scientists that left tobacco industry came to the food industry.

Sal DeStefano (11:17)

That's right. When the tobacco industry was getting regulated and the writing was on the wall, they took their top scientists, these companies bought food companies, they hedged their bets, and they took their scientists who figured out how to make cigarettes more desirable, and they said, can we use this science with food? What is it about food that makes it appealing? What makes it irresistible? Why does one thing. Why do I love eating one thing versus another? Now, the average person, like, it tastes better. Okay, cool. But there's a lot that goes into it. And so they engineer foods to make them irresistible. And don't fool yourself, everybody. This is crazy science. This is insane science. This is some of the most detailed, data driven science that exists in the market because food is a necessity and there's big money in food. And so what they do is they go in and you look at the back of a bag of a processed food or a box of a processed food, even a health food, even a heavily processed health food. Look at the back of it. Every ingredient in there is in there because it makes it more irresistible. Everything. So every chemical, every color, every change in texture, every mouth, feel, thing, everything in there is them playing this game of how irresistible can we make this food? And so what this causes in the average person is you overeat. You just overeat. It just, it, it really works on the brain in a way to where good luck, try and eat the appropriate amount of food. When you're eating these foods, the point.

Justin Andrews (additional commentary) (12:51)

That the dust on your fingers is, is accounted for because you're gonna lick it more, which is gonna cause you.

Adam Schafer (12:57)

To grab more color, smell, sound, texture, crunch, crunch. The bag, salt, fat, sugar, combination, the ratio, how it hits the brain. I mean, it's just. Yeah, it's insane, the level of science that goes into making these foods more. And here's what I want to make sure we communicate. Because I do know that when I say this, sometimes we'll scare a client. Like, oh my God, it's impossible that I only eat whole foods. And I just want to remind people, because obviously a bar and a shake and a protein bar and a shake are considered highly processed foods also. They're just not, not engineered the same way. Although, although they try, they try.

Sal DeStefano (13:39)

They're just limited.

Adam Schafer (13:40)

Yeah, so exactly. So, I mean, supplement companies, your best ones are the ones that taste the best. Taste the best. I mean, so, so they're using, they're using similar science too. So. So my point of bringing that up is I don't, I don't ever want to scare a client into thinking like, you know, you, you can't make it through the day without having something in there that is somewhat processed or that. And so you fail. It's just our goal every day is to try and eat all whole foods.

Sal DeStefano (14:08)

That's right.

Adam Schafer (14:08)

And if that cold food, it's kind of like the way we communicate. Even like the squat, right? The squat is the, the ability to do a deep, heavy, great squat is like the pinnacle movement, you know, of exercise for us that we talk a lot about. But it's like, of course A lot of clients when we first get there can't do that. But that's where we're working towards that. And so it's not like, oh, you fail and you give up so that you can't squat, so you're done working out completely. It's like, no, let's keep working towards that.

Sal DeStefano (14:34)

That's right.

Adam Schafer (14:34)

The same thing comes when I talk about eliminating processed foods and eating only whole foods. Some people, it's an easy switch. Some people can just, boop, I'm all whole foods, no problem. They see incredible results right away. Other clients, it's like, that's a radical change from my diet. I eat out two times a day. Most of my stuff is packaged and boxed. And so it's like, you. I don't prepare my meals. I don't, I don't know how to do that. I don't.

Sal DeStefano (14:56)

So they don't know where to start.

Adam Schafer (14:57)

So it's like, listen, that's, that's goal, that's where we're heading. And so, and if every day, if we can make steps in the direction of that, we're doing good and we're getting better and better.

Sal DeStefano (15:06)

Totally. And so just to give some, you know, takeaways, in my experience, with a client that needed to lose weight, the average client, if they just did this and they were good with it and consistent, would typically result by itself in a 10 to 15 pound weight loss of body fat. Just this alone. Okay, so that's one thing to avoid. Number two, avoid snacking. Okay, what do I mean by that? Well, you either have a meal or you don't. So you have your meals, you sit down and you eat them and then avoid doing the stuff in between where you grab a little this, grab a little that, that adds up to all these extra calories that typically keep people away from their progress. So I would tell a client like you, there are complete meals and incomplete meals.

Adam Schafer (15:50)

That's.

Sal DeStefano (15:50)

So you either eat or you don't. And it's snacking. Let's just try to avoid that. If you're actually hungry. If you find yourself being hungry between lunch and dinner, then sit down and have a complete whole food meal rather than snacking here and there, because that all totally adds up.

Adam Schafer (16:05)

Yeah, no, that's exactly what I say. Snacking is a made up term. It's either when you sit down and you.

Sal DeStefano (16:10)

It's a marketing term.

Adam Schafer (16:11)

Yeah, exactly. You grab something to eat. Okay. You are either eating what's considered a complete meal or you're eating something that's an incomplete meal. And most snacks are not complete and not balanced. And most of them are highly processed carbohydrates.

Sal DeStefano (16:25)

That's right.

Adam Schafer (16:25)

And so. And that is just a real quick way to get up there in calories and then also to kick the appetite and cravings up.

Sal DeStefano (16:32)

Isn't that funny?

Adam Schafer (16:32)

That's like, one of the. One of the worst things about snacking.

Sal DeStefano (16:35)

Is I wasn't in the mood to eat, but now I had a few.

Adam Schafer (16:37)

Chips, and now you want. And I love giving that. Telling that story of man versus food that he. Because I think we've all saw that episode, and I remember it being like, that was fascinating to see science work this way where his. He was trying to eat a sink. A sink. Kitchen sink full of ice cream.

Sal DeStefano (16:59)

It was a challenge.

Adam Schafer (16:59)

It was a challenge. Right? And that was a challenge to do that. And he's like. He's three quarters of the way through, and you could tell he's, like, almost ready to throw up. He's so full. And he orders a basket of salty French fries, fried French fries, you know, eats that.

Sal DeStefano (17:14)

And then you can go back to either.

Adam Schafer (17:15)

Yes.

Sal DeStefano (17:16)

And eat more to eat more.

Adam Schafer (17:17)

And so that. I mean, if that doesn't help you wrap your brain around how. How that stuff works, that's what's going on when you. When you snack and you're just kind of hungry. So let me grab a snack. You end up doing that, and then it makes you even more hungry. And then you overeat. Versus, hey, I'm starting to feel hungry. You know what? Maybe I should sit down and have a complete meal. And then that complete meal that's whole foods and not processed ends up you getting full wherever you're at it. And then you stop. And then the hunger stops, the cravings stop.

Justin Andrews (additional commentary) (17:44)

I mean, also, it's okay to feel hung.

Sal DeStefano (17:47)

Yes.

Justin Andrews (additional commentary) (17:47)

I mean, it's like. It's kind of ridiculous. There's a sense and a lot of. It's been marketed to us a lot that, like, there's this hysteria around that hunger.

Sal DeStefano (17:57)

Never feel hungry.

Justin Andrews (additional commentary) (17:58)

Which is, like, absurd. It's gonna go away. And plus, just let it ride out.

Sal DeStefano (18:03)

You'll.

Justin Andrews (additional commentary) (18:03)

You'll get to your next meal just fine. There's no, like, immediate impending doom.

Sal DeStefano (18:09)

Yep. Yep. No, that's great. Next, avoid drinking calories. So calories are great when you eat them. When you drink them. Like, what a waste of time. You know, you could drink 300 calories so easily. I'd rather consume them, those calories in food. And so I just would Tell my clients. It's like, I mean, you could drink calories if you want with like sodas and stuff like that or juice. Why don't we save those calories for food so you can actually sit down and eat it? And this is just. For some people, this doesn't make a big difference because some people already don't drink calories. But for people who do drink calories, this is a big deal. Like people who have like two or three sodas a day and juices, you cut this out alone and they suddenly get eight pounds of fat loss.

Justin Andrews (additional commentary) (18:49)

So many calories.

Sal DeStefano (18:50)

They sneak in just from that.

Adam Schafer (18:52)

I mean, I, I would. So the greatest challenge that I had when talking about this is actually alcohol.

Sal DeStefano (18:59)

Yes.

Adam Schafer (19:00)

And, and a lot of times what it is, because you hear us talk about balance with alcohol and things like that and when it's a social event. But if somebody has. They're a regular wine drinker every single night or they have the weekend that they always thing. And, and where it becomes so detrimental is what you're saying is that you get all these calories and you don't get any real benefits with it. Even, like, even a, a cheeseburger from five guys has some nutritional value towards my building muscle, building my metabolism, my strength goals.

Justin Andrews (additional commentary) (19:32)

All these materials in there.

Adam Schafer (19:33)

You can use my sleep. Oh, there's a lot of things that I could actually get from the fiber all. There's a lot of things that I like. Even though it's not the most ideal choice. It is. I. I can still derive some. There is. Other than the social aspect. Right. Of bonding, connecting with family and friends. That's it. Alcohol doesn't give me any nutritional value.

Sal DeStefano (19:52)

That's true.

Adam Schafer (19:53)

Don't let them close you on the antioxidants that are in wine. Okay. That you can get from a handful of blueberries. Yes. Okay. There. There is. There is no nutritional value. They. They are the, the fastest way to empty calories. And almost every client that I ever had that, that struggled with the, the drinking calories through alcohol also struggle with hitting their targets and protein and things that they need. And so it's a. It's really detrimental when it comes to that. Like, you hit your. You hit your macros, and then maybe every once in a while you have. Not a big deal. But my clients that had to have, you know, said the things like, I gotta have my glass of wine every night or my thing. It's like. Are also. The clients are like, Adam, I have such a hard time hitting my protein intake. Well, it's like if you didn't drink.

Justin Andrews (additional commentary) (20:38)

300 calories, it's inflammatory and a lot of times, like bloat as a result. Like it can mask a lot of your results and your progress thinking, you know, you don't account for that. And so it takes away from your sleep. There's just a lot of other factors.

Sal DeStefano (20:53)

It reduces inhibitions. Even one glass of wine tends to get you to eat more as well. Yeah, so you're right. Think of the social component. That's fine. A lot of times that's not the issue though. A lot of times it's like, I just have a glass. Oh, yeah.

Adam Schafer (21:05)

I never had a problem with a client who occasionally has a family birthday that comes up and they have a couple glasses, a thing. It's the client who says things like, well, how do I figure this out with my, my wine every night? And it's just like that refuses to let go of this thing. It's like at that point you have to ask your. And it's also impeding on your ability to get the things that your body needs.

Sal DeStefano (21:26)

That's right.

Adam Schafer (21:27)

You have to ask yourself, like, are you really doing this for these other benefits? And it's like, that's, that's a tough one to overcome.

Sal DeStefano (21:33)

All right, now let's talk about the three things to do. Number one, chase protein. Hit your target body weight in grams of protein. Eat it first. We've said this again a thousand times on the podcast.

Adam Schafer (21:43)

Yeah.

Sal DeStefano (21:43)

It helps with muscle gain, it helps boost metabolic rate. It helps with insulin sensitivity. In calorie controlled diets or diets that are compared head to head, same calories, one's high protein, one's lower protein, higher protein tends to outperform. It produces satiety. Of the three macronutrients, proteins, fats and carbohydrates, proteins make you full the fastest. So it's just a, it's just across the board. This is a smart thing to do. So when you're, when you're eating your meal and you're sitting down, make sure it's high protein, eat it first. And that's what you're going to chase with that one.

Adam Schafer (22:18)

Chasing high protein through whole foods almost takes care of all goal situations. Whatever it is you're trying to do.

Sal DeStefano (22:25)

Sounds so simple, right?

Adam Schafer (22:27)

It is like hitting your protein intake through whole foods. Take whatever goal you have that you're trying to achieve tends to take care of totally. It really does. It's difficult to do consistently, but again, as the pinnacle, that's the goal. I'M trying to do this every day. I'm trying to get to my protein intake through whole foods. Really takes care of most of all the stuff.

Sal DeStefano (22:50)

100 next, chase vegetables. Non starchy vegetables. Eat them in every meal. They'll give you better digestion. They produce satiety. They're low calorie. There's some valuable nutrients. Make sure they're easily digestible. So sometimes people eat a lot of raw vegetables and find themselves that have digestive issues. In my experience with my clients, well cooked vegetables tend to be better. It's just something to add to your plate that gives you some nutritional value, but very low calories. And if you prioritize them right after the protein, everything else tends to take care of itself. And then after that, chase satiety. What? What are you talking about, Sal? Eat until I'm satisfied. That's right.

Adam Schafer (23:27)

Yeah.

Sal DeStefano (23:27)

If you do all the thing we said, eat until you're satisfied, not stuffed. By the way, this is different than full. Full is like, oh, I can't eat anymore. Satisfied is like, I'm good. I think I'm okay now. Why am I telling you, or why are we saying to chase this? Because if you follow everything else we said and you eat until you're satisfied, your body will naturally adjust its hunger signals to help you build muscle and burn body fat. Sometimes you'll build, sometimes you'll lose. And you're in this nice state of changing your body composition, which is wonderful because sometimes, like I said, sometimes it's lower, sometimes it's higher based off the signals you send from exercise and everything else. If you eat until you're satisfied, not full, everything else falls into place again, so long as you follow all the stuff that we said earlier.

Adam Schafer (24:12)

So since you wrapped up on this one, just a cool one to ask each of you guys, what has your journey been like in relationship with. With learning what satiety looks like?

Sal DeStefano (24:24)

Oh, well, very far. Gosh. Because I. Because most of my life, I've been trying to build as much muscle as possible. It's dysfunctional. So for me, I've had to learn what satisfied feels like, which is different than stuff eating until I can't breathe. Because that's what I did for so long. So for so long, it was like, you know, well beyond satisfaction. Because I'm eating because I feel like I need to get bigger. It's very different. Feeling very. One feels good, the other one feels very similar.

Justin Andrews (additional commentary) (24:55)

Yeah, it was a lot of excess to try to build and to make sure that I felt like I had enough protein by adding all the shakes on top of all the meals on top of that. But then, you know, disregarding a lot of the digestive stress. Stress, and, and, you know, a lot of the results of like, heartburn and all these, like, side effects of, of the excess amount of calories. And so it was like, you know, just stepping back and really listening to my body signals has been like eye opening. So it's like probably 3/4 the amount of, of what I was eating before.

Adam Schafer (25:29)

I mean, this is why I wanted to bring this up, because all three of us similar, similar challenges. And I mean, and also, oddly, I brought this up at lunch with Katrina over the weekend when we were eating somewhere and I still have to do this. And so what it looks like for me when I'm trying to control that is I'll follow the rules you're doing. So we were having a burger, right? So we're having a burger and there was calamari and there was fries. There's all this fried, good tasting food. And again, prioritize, hit the half pound burger first. Cause I know that's what I need. I'm eating that and then I. Then I'm starting to snack on the fries and it's like the actual burger was pretty big and satisfying as it was. And I've got all this stuff in front of me and so it's like, clean the plate. Yeah. And it just. I'll just. And you can, you, you can easily, mindlessly just keep doing that. And so, like, what I have to do is go, like, stop eating for a good five minutes and just have conversation and allow myself to feel how I feel.

Sal DeStefano (26:27)

Yeah.

Adam Schafer (26:28)

And that break allows me. And because Trgini's asked me, she's like, are you gonna finish? She's like, do you want the rest? I'm like, no, I'm actually, I'm actually good. I can keep eating. I know I can keep eating, but I actually feel really good right now. And I'm like, I don't want to keep going. So for a lot of people, and you've talked about this before, how, how we do this a lot with food, where we're chewing it, we're already cutting the next bite before you've even thinking about this bite.

Sal DeStefano (26:53)

Not the one.

Adam Schafer (26:53)

Yeah. And so I know we say this is a tip, like chase satiety, but that in itself is a. Is a skill that most people have to really, like, pay attention to it. And I think what that looks like is more mindfulness around your eating.

Sal DeStefano (27:09)

Totally.

Adam Schafer (27:09)

And Taking like longer even breaks between that. Like American culture is horrible for this. You know, we're busting people in and out of the tables.

Justin Andrews (additional commentary) (27:18)

Portions are enormous.

Adam Schafer (27:19)

Yeah, enormous. When they bring the last, they give you enormous portions. They're rushing you on the table and.

Justin Andrews (additional commentary) (27:24)

So you feel bad leaving food.

Adam Schafer (27:26)

Our entire culture is terrible for this. So the one thing I think I love about like European culture is that one of the things, you know, it's not weird to have a three hour lunch. And one of the things that's good about what I think is actually really good about that and healthy about that, is it when you start having conversation when you still have stuff on the plate and you start going, oh, I'm actually, I'm pretty good. And so if you can learn to train yourself to try and do that so that you can become, to get reacquainted with the body's natural feelings, this will really help and serve you. But it takes time. And again, if I'm 40, going to be 45 years old and still that's something I have to be aware of and watch because of all of our old.

Justin Andrews (additional commentary) (28:07)

I just stopped the habit of washing down the food, like to get it down quickly. To get it down. Well, even after like not even getting it down quickly is because like what I realized. So now that we scan and confirmed, I have like this hiatal hernia. Like it restricts, you know, the opening. And so like I even like, it's hard for me to swallow, choke. And so it just became a habit where I would eat and I'd eat big bites and I'd cram it down with as much liquid as possible, every single bite. And it was like, it's ridiculous. You know, you just like getting these habits.

Sal DeStefano (28:39)

That's funny. I got to tell you guys that I was just thinking about one of our partners, Element, right. So I was drinking Element. And I'm just realizing that I, I believe that they single handedly, they single handedly have, are destroying the old sodium propaganda that has been around for so long.

Adam Schafer (29:00)

It's still there.

Justin Andrews (additional commentary) (29:01)

But like I've, you know, it's interesting, it's great.

Sal DeStefano (29:03)

Look, if you're fit and healthy, unless your, your nephrologist or whatever is telling you this is an issue if you're fit and healthy, especially if you exercise, sodium is not an issue. Now I know there's a lot of studies that show sodium connected to this health outcome or whatever, but what these, a lot of these studies do is they're not controlling for processed foods. Yeah, so processed foods are always very high in sodium. Sodium is one of the main major components to palatability. So it's salt, sugar, and fat. And because salt has no calories, as consumers have become more aware of calories and look at the back of a bag or a box of calories, what food manufacturers did is they would try to reduce the calories but increase or keep the palatability high. And the way they do is they hammer the sodium. And so when you look at studies that show people who eat high sodium diets have these poor health outcomes, what you're actually looking at are people who eat lots of heavily processed foods or they eat a lot of fast food. But the reality is, in the context of a healthy diet, especially if you work out a lot, sodium helps with performance, helps you feel good. It's actually not bad for you. And when you look at the studies that are more controlled, where they actually look at these things, high sodium consuming cultures that eat whole natural foods that are active actually have great outcomes. Element so brave they came out. I mean, now it's not a big deal. They're so popular now. You're seeing other companies are kind of moving this direction because Element proved you could do this. But when they came out with their. When they first came out with their electrolyte powder, you know, I remember looking at. We sat in the back here for a while and we didn't even pay attention because I'm like another electrolyte drink.

Adam Schafer (30:47)

Like, you have to say why. This is what I mean. I'm glad you're going this direction because if you listen to the podcast, as. As early as the. The early years, like the first couple years, we probably even on electrolytes.

Sal DeStefano (31:00)

That's right.

Adam Schafer (31:01)

Because back then. Okay.

Sal DeStefano (31:02)

Didn't make a difference.

Adam Schafer (31:03)

Over 10 years ago, they were just fluff.

Sal DeStefano (31:06)

Yeah.

Justin Andrews (additional commentary) (31:06)

Sugar water, like sucralose.

Adam Schafer (31:08)

There was sugar water with a. A sprinkled a little bit. Yeah. And it wasn't even an effective dose, which is why when they first sent over free samples, it sat here for damn near six hours.

Sal DeStefano (31:20)

I didn't even look at the back.

Adam Schafer (31:21)

I didn't look at the sounds. I'm not even interested in looking at it. And I'll never forget the day it made its way into the actual studio and you're like, oh, my God, it's.

Sal DeStefano (31:29)

A thousand milligrams of sodium.

Adam Schafer (31:31)

No one's ever done this before.

Sal DeStefano (31:32)

They did it. This will make a difference. By the way, the original electrolyte drink, Gatorade, is not the formula Today is not the formula. The old formula was high in sodium. That's the one they were using powder.

Justin Andrews (additional commentary) (31:44)

The drop in water.

Sal DeStefano (31:46)

Yes.

Adam Schafer (31:46)

But they changed that because of what.

Sal DeStefano (31:48)

Everybody'S afraid of sodium.

Adam Schafer (31:50)

Yes.

Sal DeStefano (31:50)

And they just turned it into a sugary drink. So anyway, it's just. I'm seeing more and more companies now that are not afraid to have 500 milligrams or a thousand milligrams. Like, Element has a thousand milligrams of sodium. If you're using electrolytes for performance, you need the sodium.

Adam Schafer (32:08)

Especially if you follow the advice that we just gave the beginning of this episode. Especially if you eat whole foods.

Sal DeStefano (32:14)

Yes.

Adam Schafer (32:14)

Like, you actually have to go after salt if you eat whole foods, because the difference of processed food sodium versus what you get in sodium. Salting your food.

Sal DeStefano (32:25)

Yes.

Adam Schafer (32:25)

You literally have to go after it.

Sal DeStefano (32:27)

Huge. I used to give clients sodium. My clients that were good with eating whole natural foods, especially when they would low carb diets, and they'd come to me and be like, oh, I feel brain fog. I feel fatigued. And I know it's like, your sodium is low. And I'd give them sodium in my studio, I'd say, eat this. This is salt. Just eat it. Watch how you feel. And 10 minutes later, like, I feel great. It's like, yeah, dude, you just. Your sodium intake went from here with processed food to here with whole foods. You're still working out like, you got a bump the sodium. You need it for performance. But Element did this.

Adam Schafer (32:59)

Yeah, they did this.

Sal DeStefano (33:00)

They weren't scared. I'm sure investors looked at this and went, you guys are crazy. Thousand milligrams of sodium, right? But now everybody's jumping on the bandwagon.

Adam Schafer (33:09)

Shout out to Rob Wolf. I believe he's coming out this year.

Sal DeStefano (33:11)

Is he?

Adam Schafer (33:12)

Yeah, I know that, dude.

Sal DeStefano (33:13)

He's great.

Adam Schafer (33:13)

I know. When. When Katrina was renewing Elements contract this year, she's like, the guys have been bugging Rob to come out forever. He's just refused to come. So he's so anti.

Sal DeStefano (33:24)

And he's controversial. Oh, yeah.

Adam Schafer (33:26)

That's why. That's the reason why. Oh, yeah. He's wanted to do remote forever. Like, no, the boys really want to see him. They. I haven't seen him in a long time and have him out here.

Sal DeStefano (33:33)

So.

Adam Schafer (33:34)

Yeah, so I, I this year, the Element promised, like, we're gonna. We're gonna make him come out. He'll come out for sure.

Justin Andrews (additional commentary) (33:40)

So he's hanging out in his ranch.

Adam Schafer (33:42)

You know, we haven't caught up with him since back in the days when we used to travel out to Reno or to see him. You're talking like this is the early first three years of my.

Sal DeStefano (33:52)

Such a smart guy. So not afraid to. To speak the truth, even when it's not popular. Yeah, that's him. So I can't wait to.

Adam Schafer (33:59)

Yeah, no, he'll be fun to. He'll be fun to catch up with.

Sal DeStefano (34:02)

I'm gonna take. So we're in an interesting time because data is starting to pile up on the detrimental effects of pornography. And another, like, another large study just came out. So, you know, 10 years ago, there wasn't a lot of data. I think people knew, like, you know, pornography is probably not good, but we didn't have lots of studies to show what it does to your brain, how it affects behaviors. We knew 10 years ago that if you, you know, you consume pornography, you're more likely to get divorced. You're more likely to objectify people, including yourself. You're more likely to have dysfunctional relationships and issues like that, more likely to have erectile dysfunction, all this other stuff. But we didn't have data to show, like, how it affects the brain. And is it really affecting you the same way a drug would. Well, we have. There's more studies that are coming out, you guys, and they're piling up. And I'm so happy because.

Adam Schafer (34:58)

Well, while you're looking that up, Doug, can you tell me the D that pornhub actually started?

Sal DeStefano (35:04)

I mean, Doug, Pornhub.

Adam Schafer (35:08)

Because, I mean, I. A lot of why we don't. It's the same reason why we didn't have a lot of studies on iPads and iPhones because, you know, we grew up in a generation where this was. You. You used to go to. Had to go to dv, dvd, DVD or even before video cassette. And you had to go to the back room where you had to be 18 years old or just even go back there. So the likelihood you could even get.

Sal DeStefano (35:29)

There was just barriers.

Adam Schafer (35:30)

So many barriers.

Sal DeStefano (35:30)

Lots of barriers.

Adam Schafer (35:31)

So many barriers.

Sal DeStefano (35:32)

Where it's not. So here's the deal. It's not so much when pornhub came came to be. It's going to be when smartphones.

Justin Andrews (35:39)

Well, that's 2007. When Pornhub, bro.

Sal DeStefano (35:42)

It's one of their own. So it's right. Wow. Yes, what a crazy. Yes, what a crazy impact it's had on society. It has a huge.

Adam Schafer (35:49)

And iPhone was before that even.

Justin Andrews (35:52)

Yeah, not much, but.

Adam Schafer (35:54)

But right around there.

Justin Andrews (additional commentary) (35:54)

So that's no remorse from the.

Adam Schafer (35:56)

They they came around right around the same time. And so yeah, of course you give access to 2007 same time. So they both started. So we, we hand a bunch of teenage boys or, and, or you know, and girls. Yeah. Of a bunch of digital phones that give them free access to this.

Sal DeStefano (36:14)

Well, so it totally, it totally rewires the brain, you guys. And we have lots of studies now that show this. But there's this one, there's this one test which is a classic addiction test where your, an addict's brain will value your addiction over everything else in life. And so, and the way they test this is they show that your, your attention goes to it much faster. And so what they'll do, there's this, there's this test that they do where they, it's where they take, they take these two pictures and the one picture will point to your addiction. The other picture will be something else. And there'll be a green or red dot on each picture and you'll have to identify where the green dot is. Now if the green dot is on the picture that is not associated with your addiction, there'll be a certain speed that you'll react.

Adam Schafer (37:00)

Interesting.

Sal DeStefano (37:01)

If it's on the picture that's connected to your addiction, it's much faster. So you can do this with anything, any cue. Like if you're addicted to food, if you're addicted to cocaine, if you're addicted to whatever. And so they did this with people who consumed pornography. And it was classic, classic, classic rewiring of the brain to value this kind of stimulus, just like you would see with an addict. Now what does this mean for somebody who's consuming pornography? Well, you're basically seeing it everywhere. You're seeing it everywhere. Anytime you notice something that moves you in this direction, that's what you're noticing. And so, and your brain is becoming wired to want more of it and to move more in that direction. There's far reaching effects with that, which is pretty wild. So it's just not good. In fact, I would say probably in the next 10 years we're going to see that. The studies you're going to see scientists come out and saying, you guys, it's maybe one of the worst things that we've ever done.

Justin Andrews (additional commentary) (37:57)

Yeah.

Sal DeStefano (37:58)

Is, is, is allowed this hyper accessibility.

Adam Schafer (38:02)

Well, it's, it's a, it's a non controlled age substance. Age matters too. When your brain is more malleable.

Sal DeStefano (38:09)

Right.

Adam Schafer (38:09)

So the young, the younger this hits you. Well, let me, the more dangerous this becomes.

Sal DeStefano (38:13)

Let me put it this way. If you took a 10 year old and had them start drinking alcohol regularly, what do you think their odds of being an alcoholic would be later versus an adult at 30 starting drinking alcohol? Same thing with pornography. Their brain is wiring itself to really be predisposed for this type of behavior.

Justin Andrews (additional commentary) (38:33)

So you're saying like looking at pizza guy will never be the same.

Caller or Guest (38:39)

Or.

Justin Andrews (additional commentary) (38:40)

A plumber every time.

Sal DeStefano (38:43)

I don't think that's what it's like anymore.

Adam Schafer (38:46)

The study's interesting to me. I mean do you find that a really valuable study? Because that could apply to anything. Meaning if you had two things pop up on a screen and one of them's foreign to me and one of them is a barbell back squat. I'm always in the. And that's where the green dot is. I'm gonna.

Sal DeStefano (39:07)

No, this is, this is, this is a classic. I would queuing and it's really, there's a certain speed that they're looking at and they can do this across any addiction. But this points to the brain valuing this particular behavior more than others.

Adam Schafer (39:25)

Okay so.

Sal DeStefano (39:26)

And there are controls with it. So I'm not an expert on the study so there's a. But I know it's a study they use.

Adam Schafer (39:30)

There's, there's a really good book and it's going to get, it's, it's slipping my mind right now. It's how, how emotions are made that goes into the neuroscience. It's a great book. It's a heavy read, but it's a great, a great book and it taught. And one of the things it talks about is just how this happens with everything for us. If for example, you know, I, when I was a certain age got jumped by three kids that were in hoodies and beanies then forever. Now when I see, see that I'm gonna have a reaction. No matter what I'm gonna have a reaction. My brain is now connected that pathway.

Sal DeStefano (40:13)

Yeah.

Adam Schafer (40:14)

Right now that's an extreme example. But it happens.

Sal DeStefano (40:16)

No good example.

Adam Schafer (40:17)

It happens to everything. And so I don't, again, I don't know how much weight that study would have for me as far. Which doesn't mean I disagree with everything you're bringing up.

Sal DeStefano (40:28)

So what they're not doing is showing a full on pornography picture and a normal picture. They're showing pictures that will point to versus another. So it could literally be, you know, it could be a picture that suggests. It could be a picture that suggests a website. But your brain is wired to move in that direction. And this just supports all the Other studies that are show that, that the consumption of pornography mimics what happens when we consume drugs. Like another example is when you use drugs, you need more to elicit the same high. With pornography you need more novelty to elicit the same high. And by the way, the Trends show this 2007 Pornhub versus 20, 26 Pornhub, guaranteed. It's more extreme today. Oh yeah. Way more extreme today.

Adam Schafer (41:17)

Yeah, yeah.

Sal DeStefano (41:17)

And, and so it's just, it's just a terrible, it's a terrible thing we've allowed in society. And now I know that. I think it was in the 1970s when the Supreme Court said, you know, we can allow this. I don't, I don't know about if banning it is, is the right thing, but I think there should be safeguards. It's so easy to accept. It's crazy. It's like we're leaving drugs out on the table.

Adam Schafer (41:39)

No, no, I agree.

Sal DeStefano (41:40)

Kids can just grab.

Adam Schafer (41:41)

I don't, I don't think it should be banned. I think it should be restricted and like hard to get and difficult to get for.

Sal DeStefano (41:48)

It was hard to get in the 90s. Yeah, yeah, it was really hard. I make this joke all the time. This is true, you guys, but I in, in the 90s, when I was a kid, you could, another kid would give you his bike for a dirty magazine. I'm not even making this up. You could live if you had a dirty mag. I guarantee you could get. Kids say, hell, give me your BMX bike for this. And he'd be like, okay, yeah. And he'd give it to you. That's how hard it was to access it. Now it's like, it's everywhere.

Adam Schafer (42:14)

And the difference, you're the guy going through the beads, you know, to get at the video. Yeah.

Justin Andrews (additional commentary) (42:21)

You go into the beads, you're like, we know where you're going, buddy.

Sal DeStefano (42:24)

Yeah, dude. And you also got to put yourself out there. Out there.

Adam Schafer (42:26)

Well, yeah, yeah.

Justin Andrews (additional commentary) (42:27)

It's like.

Adam Schafer (42:27)

And there's, it was a shame. There's a huge difference from a, you know, even a young 15 year old boy flipping through a magazine versus what they have now. What they have on. What they have on, you know, a webs free website. Oh, that's crazy. He can access. I mean that has to be a massive difference. That's like comparing sugar to cocaine.

Sal DeStefano (42:50)

Yeah, dude.

Adam Schafer (42:51)

It's like, you know, I know they both like the coca leaf to coke. Yeah, they both, they both light up the brain in a similar fashion. But it's literally one sugar, one of them.

Sal DeStefano (42:59)

Well, think about it this way. You go back long enough, some of the things you can access in 10 seconds on the Internet you might have never seen in your entire life in the past. Yeah, you would have never seen.

Justin Andrews (additional commentary) (43:11)

It's wild.

Sal DeStefano (43:12)

Any of this stuff. Yeah. In fact, you could have been a king 300 years ago.

Justin Andrews (additional commentary) (43:17)

Even like your neighbor now is like on only fans or something. Like what? It's just like it's everywhere, dude.

Sal DeStefano (43:24)

It's crazy. Anyway, I want to talk about. So I, you know, I have. We've had this speculation and I've been kind of thinking a lot about it and I've asked other people and I actually asked. So I use GROK sometimes to give me ideas and whatever and I asked its opinion on this as well. So my speculation, we all agree on this, is that if in the future, if the, if the good estimates come true in the future, that AI is going to become so efficient and do such a good job that a lot of people aren't going to necessarily need to work and you're going to have probably something that looks like universal income. Okay, so hyper productivity, hyper efficiency. This is a good scenario level of ubi. Yeah, we're not going to talk about the stick area stuff, but let's just say that happens. So you have a lot of people with time on their hands. I'm basing this opinion off of what happened during COVID When Covid happened. This is a great story to share. When Covid happened, I remember we came in and we were a little bit of in a panic because all the gyms were shut down and we're like, oh, what's going to happen? We have a fitness podcast. Are people not going to listen? The opposite happened. More people worked out, more people bought fitness equipment, more people hired online coaches because they had time on their hands. So the theory is that in the future, especially one on one training is going to be very valuable for growth will be huge, Very valuable. And I think that's going to happen.

Adam Schafer (44:51)

I, Well, I think it's, I think it's multifaceted too. I think that there is going to be a huge demand for personal connection too.

Sal DeStefano (45:01)

Totally.

Adam Schafer (45:01)

As we get more and more, you know, autonomous cars and robots cleaning our houses and all these things that, and, and making stuff inexpensive and ubi to where maybe we don't have to work very much or a lot less, you wanting to be connected to real humans, there's going to be, there's already that desire for all of us to do that. We've Already seen the wedge that's happened through digital social media, replacing a lot of that and what it's doing to depression and all the things. I think there's going to be that desire for human connection.

Sal DeStefano (45:37)

The prediction that it gave me was a three time increase, three times increase in demand. So triple the market demand for in person training is what it's saying will probably happen. So you have a lot of people, like I got time on my hands. I need a sense of purpose and meaning. I think I'm gonna go get fit. And I also want to work with a person and not just do this on my own.

Adam Schafer (45:59)

Well, it's also, remember we talked about.

Sal DeStefano (46:00)

A great time to become a trainer. I think it'd be a great time to become a personal trainer.

Adam Schafer (46:04)

Remember too it's, it's in line with the how what we evaluated. Tough mudders and Spartans. Yes, like that. Right, like, good point. And like when you look at a good portion of the people that sign up for these, a lot of these are like engineers and desk job people. Like that. They like we have this human nature to want to challenge, challenge and overcome hard and difficult things to the point where when our job becomes this thing where we sit at a desk and plugged into a computer and we're not, not solving physical challenges all day long, that we go pay money to go scale a wall, to jump in freezing cold water, get dirty, climb, fall, possibly get hurt. Like that's why that's a wild idea for it, man. And so yeah, so when, when all this stuff, when, when we remove per work, I know there's a lot of people that may be thinking like, oh my God, that'd be so nice. UBI and I would have to do this job or this thing like, like it'd be, it's going to be really interesting. And another example that most people have, if you've got somebody in your life that's old enough that has worked a job that they admittedly said they hated all the way till retirement, and then they retire and they become more depressed than they were doing the job that they hated because they spent their entire time waiting for this moment of not having to do this thing that they dreaded doing to now have all this free time in the world to do whatever they want and their retirement and their nest egg and they go, they're.

Justin Andrews (additional commentary) (47:35)

Not going to know what to do.

Adam Schafer (47:36)

I'm. I'm miserable. Yep. And so this is going to expedite that for so many people to that point.

Sal DeStefano (47:44)

I just hear this and I'M like, man, if you like fitness, you like working with people, I think that's going to be a great career. I think it's a great career now.

Justin Andrews (additional commentary) (47:50)

Yeah.

Sal DeStefano (47:51)

But in 10 years I think trainers are going to have. It'll be a great time to be a trainer, for sure.

Adam Schafer (47:56)

Yeah.

Sal DeStefano (47:57)

So I read this, I was on Science Daily and I got to read this to you because it's crazy. Speaking of AI and robots and whatever. So this is from the University of Pennsylvania School of Engineering Applied Science. Here's the summary. So this was. They published this in Science Daily on 6 January. Researchers have created microscopic robots so small that you can't, you can barely see them, yet smart enough to sense, decide and move completely on their own. Powered by light and equipped with tiny computers, the robots swim. By manipulating electric fields rather than using moving parts, they can detect temperature changes, follow program paths, and even work together in groups. So they are creating. I know. So that's kind of cool. But I see Justin's conspiracy theory.

Justin Andrews (additional commentary) (48:42)

Yeah, well, yeah, once they put them in your body, it's not cool. You don't have any control over that. I mean, that'll be sold too as like the next cure for cancer.

Adam Schafer (48:52)

Oh, 100%. 100%.

Justin Andrews (additional commentary) (48:55)

Oh, my nanobots will fix me. And yeah, it's going to turn into something really weird.

Sal DeStefano (49:00)

But then you got to pay, you got to pay the, the, the monthly fee. Yeah. Stop working. Oh my God.

Justin Andrews (additional commentary) (49:05)

Organ failure. Yeah, I gotta. It's the repo man.

Sal DeStefano (49:08)

$59 a month. It'll keep your heart working. Sh. Up your subscription. Oh, my chest hurts.

Adam Schafer (49:13)

You guys just reminded me of a, a fun movie watch that Katrina and I did the other night. I want to say maybe Apple has it or Prime Doug can look at this up. I believe it's called Eternity. When Katrina first described it to me, I was like, this is not interesting to me. I don't want to watch this. This doesn't sound funny. And then we got to watching it and I thought it's a light hearted movie, so it's totally funny. And I thought the plot was original and good and that's what made it really good. And so without giving away the whole movie, it's this, you know, when you die, you go into this, like this, this, this place where you're, you're waiting. It's like a waiting room.

Sal DeStefano (49:58)

Okay.

Adam Schafer (49:59)

To decide where, where you're. Yeah, no, it's not bad. It's like a, it's actually comical. Yeah, it's like funny like a subway Station where everybody's at. And you're like. You're like, where am I? What am I doing? They're like, oh, don't worry, you're. I figure out what they call like your, Your. Your something consultant will be with you shortly. And you're like, I have no idea. And so it's kind of like funny like that all these random people are trying to figure out where they're at. They're all Dr. Died in. You know what I'm saying? And so it has this. It's. It's funny. And then, then you choose. And it's just like there's all these brochures for what it could be. You know, you. Are you like into the tropical paradise that. Or are you like the challenge you want to. You know, and they have a capitalism to go after that your whole rest of your life. You know, whatever the thing is that you're into. And so the idea is that you choose, you know, where, but you can't come back, like, once you make your decision on where your eternity is. And so that's part of this, this, this like, area that you're. You have to decide. Yeah. And so it's got. And then this girl that dies who had a normal. She's an older lady. That's how the movie starts. They're in their like 80s or 90s or. Excuse me, the husband dies. They're the dilemma that you probably wouldn't think would happen happens. And it's a really funny dilemma. And so that's how, how they figure through that. It's. Yeah, it's worth watch. It's. And I totally thought it would be something I wouldn't watch and thought it would look stupid. But it got me. It was like, oh, this is Katrina. And I found ourselves laughing quite a bit. Yeah. And it's original. Yeah, it's very original.

Sal DeStefano (51:22)

Speaking of things that are funny, that clip you sent of there was like, like, I think it was a guy or girl going around into gyms and asking dudes, what do you prefer a cardio bunny or a muscle?

Adam Schafer (51:33)

I can't believe that.

Sal DeStefano (51:35)

Yeah, I know. And then the dudes are like, cardio bunny, cardio. But then it's like.

Justin Andrews (additional commentary) (51:38)

And then it shows a misconception of muscle. Mom, Mommy.

Sal DeStefano (51:42)

I think so I think they're thinking like, write it out. Bodybuilder.

Justin Andrews (additional commentary) (51:45)

Yeah, maybe. Yeah, you know, that'd be it. Because obviously you want a muscle mommy.

Sal DeStefano (51:48)

Yeah, dude. Yeah.

Adam Schafer (51:50)

The only other thing I could think of was that actually that was well produced, meaning that that person went around and asked a lot of people, and.

Sal DeStefano (51:57)

Those were only the four dudes.

Adam Schafer (51:58)

Yeah, those are like the five dudes or whatever it was that said cardio bunny. And so it's like, let me make a funny clip to counter that we.

Sal DeStefano (52:05)

Grew the lift too much because.

Adam Schafer (52:06)

But, but, but also I thought maybe we're in our own little bubble.

Sal DeStefano (52:10)

No, I don't think so. I think, I think. I think people look. If you ask people, men and women, what's the ideal look, most of them will point to a look that requires strength training. They might not know it because they might think strength training looks like a super jacked, veiny bodybuilder.

Adam Schafer (52:29)

That's what I mean by we're in a bubble. Like, we understand muscle mommy turn versus cardiovascular.

Justin Andrews (additional commentary) (52:33)

Yeah, I think it's a misconception.

Adam Schafer (52:35)

And so maybe a lot of these guys don't know what, what, what the term muscle mommy means. And so they're thinking like, oh, is that like a bodybuilder chick? You know, like, so, like, and they're like, you said, picturing some roided out, deep voice chick that's like, you know, I'm saying they're like, yeah, I'm more into the. The cardio bunny because that, that's the only thing that makes sense to me. Like, because a lot of those guys are, Were like, guys that work out. You can tell they worked out and were fit. And it's like, I don't know any fit dudes that would choose the cardio bunny or. But maybe, maybe I'm wrong. I mean, maybe the audience will.

Sal DeStefano (53:04)

Did I send you guys the video of us in the garage last night doing the family workout? Did I send. Okay, so last night I was training my daughter, and then my wife was working out. The little ones were in the garage. So great. Dude, it's so great having everybody in there working out. We're playing, we're having a good time, and it's just. It's awesome to see my daughter and my niece. So my daughter's 16, my niece is 18, and both of them are, like, chasing strength. This is so healthy for a young girl. It's so healthy because. Perfect because it's so much healthier. You could go dysfunctional with this too. Okay, don't get me wrong, but it's so much healthier than what they typically will start to try to chase in their teens, which is, you know, lose weight, too skinny, starve yourself. So it's cool because they're both like, how do I get stronger?

Adam Schafer (53:46)

The Irony of that is that the body image issues that was marketed to women for so many decades is what drove so many women to think cardio bunny and lose weight and starve myself and not lift weights. The irony is that. That them chasing strength and doing that is going to give them the body, the most desirable body that they could ever want. Which is the ironic part of the whole thing is just that they, you know, we did a terrible job of communicating.

Sal DeStefano (54:12)

You know what I'm going to be teach my daughter is because she's. I don't know why she's obsessed with, like, growing her calves. She's like, my calves don't grow. She doesn't have tiny calves either. Very proportionate. So I don't know where she got this idea. So funny. I kind of think my wife's gonna get mad, but I kind of think because she sees Jessica. My wife has got, like, she's. And she's got small ankles, too, so it looks nice, but she wears heels. And she's got, like, calves, dude. She doesn't even train them. She's got these calves. Wonder if that's where it came from. I know, dude. I'm wondering if that's where it came from. But anyway, she's like. She's like. Like, I need to get my calves to grow. Why won't they grow? So I'm like, do you want to try occlusion?

Adam Schafer (54:49)

Oh, my gosh.

Sal DeStefano (54:50)

Yeah. So I'm gonna take some knee wraps home and have her try. And I told her, I said, listen, it. It's gonna feel like fire. She's like, oh, I don't care. I like the burn. I said, no. It's gonna literally feel like you lit your calves on fire. So I can't wait to. I can't wait to show you.

Adam Schafer (55:04)

That'd be fun to play with that. That's hilarious. That that's something that she's.

Sal DeStefano (55:07)

I know. I'm like, why your calves, dude? She's very proportioned too. Makes no sense.

Adam Schafer (55:11)

That's hilarious.

Sal DeStefano (55:11)

Makes no sense at all.

Adam Schafer (55:13)

How fun, dude, to watch. I can't believe she's 16.

Sal DeStefano (55:16)

Yeah, dude, that is so weird. She's driving herself.

Adam Schafer (55:18)

It's weird to even hear you say that, because I feel like just yesterday she was Max's age, you know?

Sal DeStefano (55:24)

You know, what a weird feeling.

Adam Schafer (55:26)

She was younger than Max.

Sal DeStefano (55:27)

Doug will know this. I mean, you. You experienced this with your boys, too, but it's different. But dou. What I'm talking about is you watch your daughter go from a little girl To a woman, it is a very unnerving thing to see. It's all. It's wonderful to see my daughter grow up, but then to see her become a woman.

Adam Schafer (55:44)

Yeah.

Sal DeStefano (55:44)

Suddenly I'm like.

Adam Schafer (55:46)

Well, I remember this, that same transition, when that happened, that happened like over a summer with Brianna. We hadn't seen her like in. It was like a three month time and all. Like she comes in one day and was like, she went, she's not a kid anymore. It felt like she went from Max to like a, like a, A grown woman over a summer. It was like, where did that happen, dude?

Justin Andrews (56:02)

I've been asking myself that same question for a while.

Adam Schafer (56:05)

You handle it really well, though. You have, you have, you, you don't, you don't seem to. You don't act like a normal dad who has a teenage daughter, in my opinion.

Justin Andrews (56:13)

Well, I have to have some level of trust with her. And, and the fortunate thing is she's really good.

Adam Schafer (56:19)

She's such a good girl.

Sal DeStefano (56:20)

Girl.

Justin Andrews (56:20)

Yeah. So don't, don't mistake my calmness for not having like a storm going on inside.

Adam Schafer (56:29)

Oh, really?

Justin Andrews (56:30)

Yeah. No, it's nerve wracking.

Sal DeStefano (56:31)

Yeah. People are like, why is it, why is it like that for dads? Because we were boys.

Adam Schafer (56:35)

Yes.

Justin Andrews (56:35)

We know what's out there.

Adam Schafer (56:36)

But you, you both are. Because girls can be difficult, dude.

Sal DeStefano (56:41)

Yeah.

Adam Schafer (56:41)

I mean, I grew up in a house of girls. Right. So girls can be really challenging. And you guys both have really good girls.

Sal DeStefano (56:46)

Yeah.

Adam Schafer (56:47)

Which is huge because imagine having a rebellious tough dog and like, and having a rebellious boy. And Justin you can probably talk and speak to. This is. I think he would much rather. As much of a pain in the ass it is. I bet you he wouldn't trade it for having a rebellious daughter because that, like there's. I don't know how I, I would, I would handle that.

Sal DeStefano (57:06)

Yeah. You know, you're right. But the data helps me because if you look at the data, boys get into more dangerous stuff.

Adam Schafer (57:14)

Yeah, girls do. Sure.

Sal DeStefano (57:15)

So that's the data. The data is like a boy's more likely to get in a car accident, more likely to experiment with drugs and all that stuff, but there's just something innate, this, this protective feeling you get with your girl where it's like, don't get near my daughter.

Adam Schafer (57:29)

I made, I made Max uncontrollably cry for the first time last night.

Sal DeStefano (57:33)

Oh, come on, bro.

Adam Schafer (57:35)

What'd you do? Just, it was such a. It was a. It was. Katrina and I talked along about it afterwards. She goes, man, it was so, so it was so great to watch you navigate to that, because she goes, I've experienced that. You hadn't experienced that yet. And, and it's actually, I've talked about it. So there is this part of me, I did something and I went. And I was, I was frustrated inside. I was frustrated. And then I'm like, oh, I don't like this trait. I don't like that my son defaults to crying. I, I. Because I have the kid who's so sensitive, I'd actually rather him back talk me in that situation or something like that. But then I also know, know I created that, right? And so what was happening was he had this. He had this project where he had to, like, make a T shirt, and he has. They have to collect, like, a hundred things and come out. And I was trying to help him come up with an idea. And, like, they have, like, it can't be food. It. It's got to be light enough that you can glue it on the shirt. It's got to be a hundred pieces of it. I thought, oh, my son's so into Legos. And I thought, we'll make, like, a family thing. Like, you know, Shaffers build the life they want. And then it would be, like a shirt with 100 little tiny Legos on it. And so I had, like, this great idea.

Sal DeStefano (58:38)

Idea.

Adam Schafer (58:38)

And he was just like, no, I don't want to do that. And I'm like. And I'm like, you love. I'm, like, trying to, I'm trying to convince him. I'm trying to, like, you love Legos. No, I don't want to do that. I'm just like, matt, well, then what do you want to do?

Sal DeStefano (58:49)

You know?

Adam Schafer (58:49)

And he. I don't know. You know, I'm like, well, let's, let's do that. That'd be so cool. A shaver. I'm, like, really trying to convince him. And then I get. You could tell. I get a little frustrated. I'm just like, you don't even like Legos. What are you talking about? You don't like Legos?

Sal DeStefano (59:00)

Oh, no.

Adam Schafer (59:01)

Right. So I, I do that. And, And I. And he's so. He's sitting next to me like this, and we're literally like, like, almost cuddling on the couch. The project things right here.

Sal DeStefano (59:09)

And I.

Adam Schafer (59:09)

And I said, I'm, like, doing the takeaway clothes. I. And I don't even. I don't see it. But I, he, he just. And he just, he. And he goes. He puts his Head down. He starts to get up, and he's gonna go to his mom, and he just starts crying. And I go, oh, wait, wait, wait, wait.

Sal DeStefano (59:28)

Come here.

Adam Schafer (59:29)

Come over. And then he. And then I make him come sit back down with me.

Sal DeStefano (59:32)

Me, bro.

Adam Schafer (59:33)

I couldn't get him to catch his breath for, like, just uncontrollable. And inside of me, I'm going, oh, my God. I can't stand that this is his trait. But I also know that I was sarcastic, and I did this, right? So I'm wrestling with this. Caught, like. And so I was just holding him, and I'm like, tell me how you feel. What are you feeling? Right. I'm wanting him to express that he was frustrated with me or that he.

Sal DeStefano (59:56)

Was too upset at that, but he's.

Adam Schafer (59:57)

So uncontrollably crying that he couldn't. Every time he would try and talk to tell me what I did, which I knew I did, but I wanted him to tell me what I did. Oh, man. It literally. It took him 10, 15 minutes. We had to completely sit there. And I wouldn't let Katrina get involved because I could tell he wanted his mom. He wanted his mom just to hold him in control, but I wanted him to sit in it. I wanted him to feel it, but I also wanted him to tell me what I did wrong so I could apologize. So I had to wait until he completely got all his composure. We had to. Eventually had to. Like, it was a long time. It was like 30 minutes of every time I'd go back to do it. It would cause him to break down again. And so we went and played. We ended up having dinner and playing cards and completely got him out of it. But then when I put him to bed, I wanted to still talk about it. So we had a chance to talk about it when we went to bed. And I said, hey. I said, daddy knows that that was my fault. Like, I. I shouldn't have done that, you know? And I tell him why. And I'm like. But I said, I also want you, son. When Daddy does that, you tell me, I don't like that. That I don't like how I feel. I want you to stand up with how you feel and tell me that. And you could tell, like, how hard it was for him to. Because I. He said, you know, I was scared to. And I'm like, no, you can't be scared just to share your feelings. Like, if you feel strongly about something that you don't want to do that. And the reason why Daddy wants you to be Comfortable with doing it with daddy because Daddy is much bigger and stronger and scarier than any kid you're going to ever deal with. And so I want you to be able to do that. If a kid tells you that. That's why I want you to be strong and speak your mind and say that. Oh, bro. Tore me up to know that I did it.

Sal DeStefano (61:26)

You know, I've been there, dude.

Adam Schafer (61:28)

Because remember, I told you.

Sal DeStefano (61:29)

What did I. I brought up to you.

Adam Schafer (61:30)

I'm the one who brought up to you guys. The sarcasm thing. Their brain. And that was that. That's a part of that was. I was being. Of course he loves Legos.

Sal DeStefano (61:37)

Right?

Adam Schafer (61:38)

So for me to be like, you don't even like Lego.

Sal DeStefano (61:40)

You know that. You know that there's. Did you know there's scripture? Maybe I shouldn't say I make you feel worse.

Adam Schafer (61:45)

No, no, I. I mean, there's scripture.

Sal DeStefano (61:47)

That literally says the father. Fathers don't provoke your children.

Adam Schafer (61:49)

No, I did 100. I know. That's what Katrina was like. I could see your face. And she's like, it was so cool to watch you navigate that because I could tell what you were going through. And you knew what you did.

Sal DeStefano (62:02)

Yeah.

Adam Schafer (62:02)

And you.

Sal DeStefano (62:03)

But.

Adam Schafer (62:03)

And you. And you know, you don't like that. We don't like that. He cries and defaults to that. But I did it. I provoked that. And so I gotta weather this storm.

Sal DeStefano (62:12)

Well, you know what he got to see. He got to see a repair. You got to see dad. Right, right. His fall and repair. There was a great study on that that showed that it was one of the best predictors of a child's success in relationships was how easily and well their parents apologized to them when they made a mistake.

Adam Schafer (62:29)

Yeah. Yeah.

Sal DeStefano (62:30)

It was like one of the best predictors. Yeah. So because you talk to some people and you ask them, did you have your parents ever apologize to you? Never. Yeah, never. And it's. They struggle with it themselves as adults. I forget.

Adam Schafer (62:40)

What's her name. Becky. Whatever. She talks about that. That study.

Sal DeStefano (62:43)

Oh, does she?

Adam Schafer (62:43)

That's her whole speak spiel is a lot around how important that is. Because everybody always talks about how broken or destructive something has been, but it's repairable if you. If you can.

Sal DeStefano (62:53)

Changes the narrative.

Adam Schafer (62:54)

I mean, and I knew in that moment I needed to do that, but I. I just wanted him to be able to, you know what I did. But he was so uncontrollable crying that he couldn't articulate.

Sal DeStefano (63:03)

What's his name? Scott from Fig and Eagle. Gave Some recommendations when we met with him, and one of the recommendations he gave me, which it took me a while to do because I had to really, really think about it and think about what I wanted. But he said, write your daughter a letter. And in the letter, apologize for things in the past that you wish you did differently. And so I had to really think about it, and I had to think about it, and I kind of put it off. I'm like, what do I say? What do I do? And I finally did it, and it was very impactful.

Adam Schafer (63:29)

Did you read it to her? Did you just give it to her?

Sal DeStefano (63:31)

I wrote it, I printed it. I put it on her bed. Yeah. So she found it and got to read it, and she just sent me a text. I really love you. And for my daughter to say it like that, I could tell.

Adam Schafer (63:41)

Oh, wow. Was that recent?

Sal DeStefano (63:43)

It was like, a few days ago, maybe.

Adam Schafer (63:44)

Oh, wow. So just recently. Oh, that's so. Because what interests me is, like, I'm sure there's gonna be some positive downstream effects on that. Of course you are. Right away.

Sal DeStefano (63:52)

Well, my relationship with my daughter, so, so, so, so great now. And there's other stuff, too, but that's one of the things that.

Adam Schafer (63:58)

So cool.

Sal DeStefano (63:59)

Yeah, I know. It's really, really cool. Anyway, I'm gonna take a left turn, and I, you know, I just want to really give credit to Ketone IQ for their exogenous ketones. Ketone supplement. I've used exogenous ketones before. The mental sharpness they get from theirs is on another level. It's such an effective supplement for mental performance. And it's not a stimulant. They have one that's got caffeine in it. I don't use that one because I max out my caffeine every morning. I use the one that doesn't have caffeine. So you can go with caffeine too. But, man, when I take it, it's like 15 to 30 minutes later. I just feel sharp. It is so great. And I was looking up the data on it, and it's backed by data.

Adam Schafer (64:44)

Well, I was just going to ask you because I thought I saw in our group thread with Katrina and them that the, the amount. They're another one of those companies that do a lot of studies or have a lot of data to back that up. Have you gone through some of that stuff? Have you?

Sal DeStefano (64:54)

I know for mental performance is the best. For athletic performance, for endurance in particular, it can have some benefits. But for mental performance, cognitive enhancement particularly, these are the places where you see the data that supports it, processing speed, working memory, and executive function. So what that means is if you're impulsive, it can help with impulse working memory and processing speed. I value it for the podcast.

Adam Schafer (65:21)

Well, long before we were even sponsored by Ketone iq. You've said forever. That's your protocol when you gotta go.

Sal DeStefano (65:27)

Travel and go on a ketogenic diet.

Adam Schafer (65:29)

And whenever you have to go out.

Sal DeStefano (65:30)

It takes like two or three days.

Adam Schafer (65:31)

Get on a podcast to make you. You sharp and clear. I mean, it's also why I, for a long time, unless I have very specific goals where I'm trying to build or I'm doing those series or like that, I tend to skip breakfast before we podcast. I just, I feel sharper also too. So it's just a testament to, to that that was long before we even working with it.

Justin Andrews (additional commentary) (65:49)

But there's still value in taking it and not being in ketosis.

Adam Schafer (65:53)

That's what I said.

Justin Andrews (additional commentary) (65:54)

I was tripping out.

Sal DeStefano (65:55)

Yeah, that's right.

Justin Andrews (additional commentary) (65:55)

Because that's, that's why I was hesitant to kind of, you know, try it, use it and then. And you know, I think, who do we have on like Dr. Dan? I forget his name, but he was breaking it down and was like making sense out of like, you know, still being able to utilize a lot of the ketones exogenously.

Sal DeStefano (66:13)

I'm. I'm not on a ketogenic diet when I use it. Yeah. But it puts me in, in measurable ketosis because I have ketones.

Adam Schafer (66:19)

Well, that's what makes this, is what makes this supplement value. If you're already on a ketogenic diet, then you're getting a lot of those benefits. Right. It's somebody who's not on a ketogenic diet to still be able to get the benefits.

Sal DeStefano (66:29)

If you want the benefits, especially the brain benefits, the cognitive performance benefits of a ketogenic diet. But you don't want to go zero carbs, which I get. Then you just take one of those shots and then boom, 15 minutes. 15 minutes. It hits quick and your brain uses it very quick. It's like jet fuel for the brain. So the brain's like, I'm.

Adam Schafer (66:49)

Is it. Because it's still gotta go through the digestive process to then get up.

Sal DeStefano (66:53)

It gets absorbed very quickly and the brain sucks it up very, very quickly.

Adam Schafer (66:56)

Interesting.

Sal DeStefano (66:57)

Very, very quickly. It's a clean source of energy. So all your cells love ketones, but the brain is really.

Adam Schafer (67:06)

Is that because when you drink things under your tongue, how you're certain?

Sal DeStefano (67:11)

No, it Goes through the. It just gets still.

Adam Schafer (67:13)

Just gets absorbed faster.

Sal DeStefano (67:14)

So 15 to 30 minutes is what you want.

Adam Schafer (67:15)

Yeah. That's quick.

Sal DeStefano (67:16)

Yeah. So if you can actually test, you can use ketone strips and you can pee on them and you can see 30 minutes later it'll come up. Yeah.

Adam Schafer (67:22)

Wow.

Sal DeStefano (67:22)

Oh, yeah, it works really well. Dose liver support has been shown in studies to lower the liver enzymes you get when you do your liver tests. Okay, so alt ast. It makes your liver function better. And all you gotta do is take a little dose of it every day. It's a few ounces. You drink it, it makes a big difference. What does this feel like? Well, when your liver is healthier, you have more energy, your skin looks better, you burn body fat better, you metabolize sugar better. A healthy liver is a healthy body. It's a very easy supplement to take. It's easy. It tastes good. And again, the studies show that there is a reduction in liver enzymes when people use this on a daily basis. Go check it out. Go to dosedaily.co mindpump. Use the code mindpump. Get 25% off your first month subscription back to the show.

Justin Andrews (68:18)

Our first caller is Jaclyn from New York.

Sal DeStefano (68:20)

Hi, Jaclyn.

Adam Schafer (68:21)

How you doing, Jacqueline?

Jaclyn (Caller) (68:22)

Hey, guys. Thank you so much for taking my question. I've been listening to you guys since, like 2019, like, end of 2018. So you guys are phenomenal.

Sal DeStefano (68:31)

Thank you.

Jaclyn (Caller) (68:32)

Yeah, so I'll just get right to it. So I'm from Long Island. I played three sports growing up. Volleyball, basketball, and lacrosse. Like, all the way growing up, went to college for lacrosse, and I actually played five years. Because of the COVID year, we all got eligibility back. And basically my whole life and career, everything was set out for me and, like, planned through. So all of my athletic training, all of my lifts, my diet, nutrition, everything. And it went into overdrive. When I got to college, we met with, like, nutritionists, dietitians. We had a strength training coach. We had, like a conditioning coach. When you do conditioning, it's just you're running around for two hours. So with that being said, I graduated officially in 2022 and that was it. I was done with sports. And then I was kind of like.

Kayla (Caller) (69:25)

On my own.

Jaclyn (Caller) (69:28)

From there. I mean, I have, I would say, like, all of your programs. And the best, like, thing that I've seen with myself is like, I kind of have to go to the gym with a buddy. But none of my buddies want to do it as much as I convince them. It's just like Life is in the way. We're all 26 and 27, and just life is there. I've had three trainers. Two of them don't train anymore, and the other one, I basically was asking, like, I just want to get back into my college shape, which I know now not a thing, but. And the results were not great with, like, the other coach. And so I've just lost complete trust in all of my trainers. I actually have an exercise science degree myself and my family. I mean, my. Both my parents lost about 60 pounds with the training and nutrition that I gave them and everything of that sort. I just can't do it for myself, and it's insane. And I do think, like, the athlete mentality is crushing me. I think when I make programs for myself, I go full in, and then all of a sudden I fall off and I try something else. And then. And then I just don't go. And then when I don't go, I start stressing out, and then I go back and then I do something different. But. So right now, I have two weddings. My fiance is from Cyprus, so I have one in New York in April, and the other one is in October in his country. I've been between 148 and 150 pounds since 2022. And, like, nothing really happens. And I know the scale doesn't matter, but it feels like the muscles melting off of me, even though I feel like I'm training as hard as possible. So I don't know what to do.

Adam Schafer (71:10)

Yeah, give us a second because Doug's got to pull up these pictures. So Sal knows what sports you're talking about.

Sal DeStefano (71:15)

Stupid.

Jaclyn (Caller) (71:17)

Lacrosse is a very long island.

Sal DeStefano (71:19)

I know what it is. I know what it is. Stop it. They're just teasing me. Listen. So I got really good news and really bad news for you.

Caller or Guest (71:28)

Yep, I figured.

Sal DeStefano (71:29)

So the bad news, you've trained your psyche, okay? Your behaviors for years. For years and years and years to have two gears. This is. This is your psyche. Two gears. All. All go all on, 100% off. There's nothing in the middle. So that's the bad news. The good news is you're very coachable because you've always been coached. You just have to make the decision to trust your new coaches or the different coaching. And it's going to be different than what you're used to, because the challenge will be when you work with a coach who knows what they're doing is they're going to do things different than what you're used to, because the way you Used to train was for peak performance and screw everything else. It was like, I'm going to be the best, I'm going to go hard. And that's really the priority in life. And so everything points to that. And you know what I'm talking about. This was your life and so everything else can fall off. But now you're about to get married, you probably got a job, you're gonna want to have kids. You're gonna have kids at some point. You're still young, but at some point your body's gonna get older and so it's just not gonna be able to tolerate the same kind of punishment. And so you just have to allow yourself to be coached differently so that you could change your approach. That's the best option you have. Doing it on your own is going to be very the heart. It is. The hardest thing ever is to take someone like you and have them figure it out on their own. It's very difficult because it looks exactly like what you experience, which is it's all on or all off. And then you're like, I'm all on and nothing's happening. Why isn't this happening? And then it's like, forget it, I quit. And so the reality is the switch is actually always on. It's just either all fitness or I'm off completely and it goes in that direction. So what it tends to look like is either I'm training my ass off and I'm hyper focused or I eat like garbage and I don't do anything else. And so you see this quite often. You see this, this is very common with high level athletes in the, in the past, boxers were famous for this. They become obese in the off season and then when they're in camp they would get just, you know, super fit. And you just. This is a very difficult thing to do. Your best bet is to work with a coach that knows what they're talking about and allow there's a part of you that's good at this where you're coachable. It's just going to be different than what you're used to. So don't question it. Just like in the past when your coach said, did do this thing and what probably one of the, one of the things that made you an amazing athlete was you just did it. You're going to have to do that now. And then slowly it's going to change your behaviors and you're going to figure out a new stage of life.

Adam Schafer (74:15)

It takes, it takes a really special coach too. One that has A lot of experience because the typical trainer will feed into what you like to do.

Justin Andrews (additional commentary) (74:26)

They get excited.

Adam Schafer (74:27)

So if I, if I got a hold 25 year old me training you would like, I would be wrong. I'd be, I'd do it wrong. I'd lean into what you love to push you and get and like we'd be high fiving afterwards. And I think that I'm doing the right thing. But a trainer that's been doing this for a really long time, it's going to be uncomfortable what I have you do, you're not going to like it and you're going to be like, this is too easy. This is not enough. I want this. I want. And you'd be pushing and pushing back on me the whole time and I'd have to be continuing to convince you that no, this is the right amount of intensity, this is the right amount of volume. Trust the process. I got you. You're at a different phase of your life right now. You're not a college athlete that that's all you do is study and play sports hard and like you're a different stage of your life.

Sal DeStefano (75:10)

Life.

Adam Schafer (75:11)

You're at a different time of your life and this is what's appropriate and just trust the process and I'm going to get you to where you want to be and it's going to feel great but it's going to be difficult along the way. And so this, that, that's what athletes are up there with. Some of the hardest ex athletes are up there with some of the hardest clients I ever had to train. And it wasn't because they lacked the discipline or the work ethic. It was quite the opposite. It was because they were so used to a level of work ethic and intensity that was just not appropriate for what their body needed at this stage of their life.

Sal DeStefano (75:41)

Let me add to that, Adam, because the ex athletes that have trained that did very well were the ones that surrendered. That's right. So have you ever coached athletes yourself?

Jaclyn (Caller) (75:54)

I have. I'm lacrosse coach currently.

Sal DeStefano (75:56)

Okay. Your best. You know this. I don't have to tell you this, but I'll say it so other people can hear it. The best athletes you have, besides talent and all that stuff, are the ones who do what you tell them, surrender to the process. Like you tell and they don't question it. Yes, I'm going to do it. And those are the best athletes. So that skill that you have, which is also there, which is what made you also awesome, was that you were probably coachable If I talked to all your past coaches, they'd be like, oh, yeah, she's. She's totally coachable.

Caller or Guest (76:24)

I hope so.

Sal DeStefano (76:25)

You got to. You got to use that again. It's just going to look different, that's all. So.

Justin Andrews (additional commentary) (76:29)

So you need the right coach. 100% needs to be a mature coach.

Adam Schafer (76:32)

That's the problem.

Justin Andrews (additional commentary) (76:33)

Yeah. So we got to find you somebody who can. Can, you know, speak to that specifically and also, like, play into the fact that you're very competitive, but direct that competitive mindset towards things that are benefiting you and really get into that psychology because, like, that's a superpower. And I think that, like, you know, just shifting into a different phase for me was really difficult, and I had to be able to use that same, like, competitiveness into the discipline of doing the right thing that actually was, like, benefiting my body as opposed to just, you know, hammering weights and going as hard and as intense as possible.

Sal DeStefano (77:10)

Yeah, yeah. Yep.

Jaclyn (Caller) (77:11)

And, like, the third trainer that I was talking about, because the first two quit personal training in general, the third trainer that I was talking about that I had for about, like, a year, they totally bought into, like, all the stuff that I was doing. And like, you guys said it was like, okay, so you want to do eight sets of 12, you know, squats, go ahead. I'm like, okay. And nothing happened in a year.

Sal DeStefano (77:34)

No. Yeah.

Adam Schafer (77:36)

Most trainers will do that. It's a tough position when you're a young trainer and you're building better, you don't know any better. I also want to keep my client happy. You like doing it, you're excited and stuff like that.

Sal DeStefano (77:47)

You're not the common client. Right. The common client doesn't want to work hard. They have difficulty with discipline. And then you get. Suddenly get this client that's like, oh, I. I love to go hard. You're like, cool, let's do it.

Justin Andrews (additional commentary) (77:55)

Kitchen sink at you.

Sal DeStefano (77:56)

That's right. And it's.

Caller or Guest (77:57)

Yeah.

Sal DeStefano (77:57)

And it's totally the wrong approach just to make you feel better. By the way, this doesn't mean that you're never going to tap into that old feeling, but what it's probably going to look like for most of your life is most of the time, you don't train that way. Then you have, like, short seasons, which is probably going to look like. And it depends on what's happening in your life. Okay. But it's going to look like 20%, 10%, sometimes 5% maybe when you have kids where you're getting after it and you're Going to love it and you're going to totally love it, but the rest of it's going to look, look very different. So I don't want to, I don't want to discourage you, be like, yeah, you can never get after it. No, you'll be able to. It's just not going to be like that all the time. So I have a few coaches in mind that I think would work really well with you. So if you're open for it, Jackie, I'll have somebody call you and, and I think you'll be in good hands and I think they'll take you in the right direction.

Jaclyn (Caller) (78:47)

Yeah, that would be awesome. Thank you guys so much.

Caller or Guest (78:50)

It's.

Jaclyn (Caller) (78:50)

And I feel like I knew what I was going to hear, but I didn't. I think the discouragement of like the three trainers that I hired just freaked me out.

Adam Schafer (78:58)

You know, I get that the hardest.

Sal DeStefano (79:00)

There'S a few types of clients that are very difficult to train that experienced trainers will do well with and everybody else will do poorly with. And one of them near the top are ex high level athletes. If you don't have experience, if you're not a good trainer in terms of experience, you're just going to do it wrong. And so, and you're just, you're just in that category. But like I said, I have a few coaches I think would work really well with you. So we'll have somebody call you.

Adam Schafer (79:26)

The cool part is that you're, you're reaching out to us with plenty of time. I, I see your, your two calendar dates that you coming up. So it's plenty of time to, to build your metabolism to do things right and then you could even get a little bit of a sprint in there right before that you enjoy like right before the wedding, you know, and actually get great results for that hard work right before. But we want to build, we want to build you up for that little sprint that you'll do first and not the other way around. Right out the gates, get into your sprinting and that's just not where you want to be.

Sal DeStefano (79:52)

Yeah. And you said one of them's in Cyprus when your wedding. Weddings.

Jaclyn (Caller) (79:55)

Yeah, one of them's in Cyprus.

Sal DeStefano (79:56)

Oh, that's beautiful.

Kayla (Caller) (79:58)

Yeah.

Jaclyn (Caller) (79:58)

Come on down.

Kayla (Caller) (79:59)

October 11th.

Sal DeStefano (80:01)

Gorgeous. Gorgeous. Well, hey, congratulations.

Justin Andrews (additional commentary) (80:03)

Crash some weddings.

Adam Schafer (80:05)

Thank you.

Sal DeStefano (80:05)

We'll have somebody reach out.

Jaclyn (Caller) (80:06)

Thank you so much. You guys are the best.

Sal DeStefano (80:08)

You got it. Thanks.

Adam Schafer (80:09)

Recordings.

Sal DeStefano (80:10)

It's funny. Cyprus, Cyprus is off the coast. It's in the middle. Is it off the coast of Greece? Am I tripping?

Justin Andrews (80:17)

I believe it's out in that. I don't know.

Sal DeStefano (80:19)

I know it's a. It's a beautiful island. I think it's near that whole area of, like, the Mediterranean. But I could be wrong. Maybe. Look it up. I will look it up.

Adam Schafer (80:28)

Here. Yeah.

Justin Andrews (80:29)

It's on the Eastern Mediterranean Sea, south of Turkey, west of Syria, north of Egypt.

Sal DeStefano (80:33)

Yeah. Gorgeous. So a lot of people wouldn't. Wouldn't even think of this. They would probably think that a easy client would be one that was an ex athlete. That's another discipline structure. I remember the first time I got a client like this, and I'm like, oh, this will be easy. It was hard, man. Yep.

Adam Schafer (80:49)

No, it's hard.

Sal DeStefano (80:49)

Diet was hard. Training was hard.

Caller or Guest (80:51)

Hard.

Sal DeStefano (80:52)

You would think diet's gonna be hard, dude. I had this. I remember.

Justin Andrews (additional commentary) (80:55)

Where's the diet?

Adam Schafer (80:56)

Yeah.

Sal DeStefano (80:57)

Oh, my God. I had this woman that I trained that was a highly competitive crew, so rowing. Right. They beat the crap out of you. And I remember she was like, yeah, I'm only eating this, that, and the other. I'm like, how big is the chicken breast that you're eating? She's like, oh, you know, just a normal chicken breast. Let's see. Can you show me? I'm like, yes. 12 ounces. That's a big chicken breast. Rest. It's like, I used to eat this all the time. Like, yeah, dude, that's not a serving for you anymore. You're not. You're not exercising four hours a day like you used to.

Adam Schafer (81:24)

It's hard, too, when you're a young trainer and you get a client like that. Like we were saying that is that likes to train that way. Like, it was fun. You know what I'm saying? It's just like, you know, she's the one who's down to do the crazy box jumps and the sprints and the plyos and all the crazy stuff.

Justin Andrews (additional commentary) (81:37)

They could do all the crazy moves.

Adam Schafer (81:38)

Yeah, yeah. And they want to do, but it's not what she needs. And so it'll take an experience, but one of our coaches will take a of couple take care of her. So she's in good hands. And. And she. I'm. The fact that we. We're catching her right now.

Sal DeStefano (81:48)

Perfect.

Adam Schafer (81:48)

Her first weddings in April. The other one's in October.

Sal DeStefano (81:50)

Yeah, we got time.

Adam Schafer (81:51)

Plenty of time.

Justin Andrews (81:52)

Our next caller is Skyler from California.

Sal DeStefano (81:54)

What's up, dude?

Adam Schafer (81:54)

How you doing, Skyler?

Caller or Guest (81:55)

Hey, good morning. How you guys doing?

Adam Schafer (81:56)

Good.

Sal DeStefano (81:57)

How can we help you?

Caller or Guest (81:58)

Nice to meet you.

Adam Schafer (81:59)

You too.

Caller or Guest (82:00)

Really, really easy. Question hopefully for you guys. So I looked it up on Mind Pump AI and you, you've supposedly never answered this one before. So I'm curious to hear what you guys have to say.

Sal DeStefano (82:11)

Okay.

Caller or Guest (82:13)

Again, ultimately it's really hopefully quite simple and I've actually started doing it so I'm curious to see if you guys like what I've done. So I've been really interested in the idea of functional fitness and so my wife did a great job on my birthday recently and bought me some gym rings so that I can do some gym ring workouts. And it's very similar to, you know, know the suspension trainer, but I'm currently going through anabolic for the second time and I've been swapping out some of the, some of the anabolic workouts like pull ups and you know, barbell curls and things like that with gym rings. Um, and I'm curious to know what your guys thoughts are on, you know, how I should go about swapping out exercises for gym rings. Are there things to look out for, specific exercises that would be good for it, et cetera?

Adam Schafer (83:05)

I love that what you're already doing. Yeah, what you're already doing is a good idea. Your biggest challenge will be lower body. Right, right. I mean that that's going to be possible.

Sal DeStefano (83:14)

Is your ultimate goal to get really good at the rings?

Caller or Guest (83:18)

Ultimately my goal is to be healthy and functional and move well. I've only been doing strength training, you know, seriously for the last like year or so and I already kind of feel stiffer and tighter and I just don't feel like I'm moving as well.

Sal DeStefano (83:34)

Yep. We'll send, let me send you maps performance. The mobility in there and the workouts in there will be better for what you're looking for.

Adam Schafer (83:41)

Yeah.

Caller or Guest (83:41)

Okay.

Sal DeStefano (83:42)

And then for, you know, rings are very technical. So yeah, there's a physical component that requires strength and fitness, but there's a technical component that is really about skill. So the best way you'll get better at using the rings is to practice them often.

Adam Schafer (83:57)

Yeah.

Justin Andrews (additional commentary) (83:57)

And I mean if you wanted to model because it's so similar to TRX and suspension trainer, we actually have a program just, just you know, using it specifically. But I mean the biggest value that I got from doing a bunch of ring training was, you know, ring dips, pull ups obviously and any of that rotation ability while you're pulling or pressing. So really expressing that and then, you know, that body control and you know, strength, you know, using those, I think it's very valuable. But in combination with weights I think is. Is the move.

Adam Schafer (84:32)

I mean, a more kind of generic answer was what I think you're kind of looking for. And I love that Sal sent over performances. I think I would run maps performance for all lower body stuff and then my upper body movements, I would do the rings.

Caller or Guest (84:45)

Yeah. And that's, that's kind of what I was thinking. You guys were going to say. I was thinking about performance as well. And so far how I've been doing it on anabolic because that's one of the plans of yours that I own. I own a couple, but. But I've been doing all of the low body obviously with the barbell, you know, exactly as run. And I've just been swapping out some of the ones and even some of the barbell exercises for the upper body. I'm keeping. I just kind of swapped out a few of them that seemed like a, you know, perfect one for one transition where I can still overload them. But I'm in phase one and the strength portion and I want to make sure that I'm still getting the, the heavy, low rep weights. Um, so that's what I've been doing.

Sal DeStefano (85:23)

Cool.

Caller or Guest (85:23)

And yeah, I'm excited to try performance. That'd be great.

Sal DeStefano (85:26)

Yeah, no, just, you know, and just, just mentality wise, when you're doing something like rings, it's not. Don't think of it as training body parts.

Caller or Guest (85:34)

Yeah.

Sal DeStefano (85:34)

Think of it as training movement patterns.

Adam Schafer (85:36)

Yeah, sure.

Sal DeStefano (85:37)

So. So when you lay, when you lift weights, I mean often not always. Right. Performance is movement based. But when you lift weights, oftentimes it's body part focus, chest, shoulders, you know, biceps, back. But that's getting good at something like rings. You don't want to necessarily think of it that way where. Okay, this is a bicep exercise. This is a check. It's really about just practicing movement patterns and that'll get you better at them.

Adam Schafer (86:00)

So thinking from that perspective, and Justin probably has the most experience, probably definitely has the most experience with this. And I know you said you love dips. Like, so would you like try and practice two or three or one movement on the rings and then you just take out out things in a program. So for example, like ring dips, you're getting a lot of shoulder, chest and tricep action and so that you're just going to practice that all the time. And then I imagine that you would just eliminate a lot of the shoulder tricep type of work and, and chess work in the. Is that what you would do?

Justin Andrews (additional commentary) (86:37)

Yeah, yeah, I would Definitely have to switch, swap some out, you know, to, to accommodate for that. And then there's also that like, like progressive ability within rings. So if, you know, you turn that into a muscle up, like. Yeah, you get into everything where you're up at the top and, you know, we can actually push out and, and work on the iron cross. And so the, the thing about it is, like, the rings bring a whole nother level of intensity that you could skill train like that. Like you're saying you could build up to, to a degree that's really high level.

Adam Schafer (87:09)

So that's, so that's my point. And I think this is what Sal's trying to communicate is that the, the rings in itself is, it's its own almost like somebody who's asking us, they want to play, they want to play soccer and they want to lift weights also. And we're like, listen, you're, you focus on just playing soccer and then we'll supplement with some lifting.

Sal DeStefano (87:25)

Exactly.

Adam Schafer (87:25)

So what that might look like is like you're doing rings almost every day or every other day, and you're just kind of practicing these movements. Like you're trying to get good at the muscle up or you're trying to get good at the dip.

Sal DeStefano (87:34)

Lift a little and then you lift a little.

Adam Schafer (87:36)

And primarily probably lifting lower body stuff, since a lot of that stuff is going to put a lot of demand on your, your chest, back, shoulders, arms to get good at the rings. And so what it looks like is you're doing rings a lot throughout the week and you're one day a week, you're probably doing a, a lower body type of weight lifting routine. That's probably what's going to serve somebody who's trying to get good at the rings and stay kind of mobile. And I like the idea of using performance exercises.

Justin Andrews (additional commentary) (88:00)

I like that if you, if you had like a few staple, like, you know, challenges that you're really gonna like, stick with and build yourself up to with the ability with the rings. So that would be the muscle up, that would be, you know, front, back levers. That would be, you know, anchor push ups. That would be. What was the other one I was trying to think of?

Adam Schafer (88:21)

I think that iron cross.

Justin Andrews (additional commentary) (88:22)

Iron cross. Thank you. Yeah, that would be, that would be your bangers right there for sure.

Caller or Guest (88:26)

Sure. Yeah, absolutely. And ultimately, you know, I think the idea of getting good at gym rings is fun just because it sounds like a fun challenge, but ultimately I'm, you know, I'm going for just, you know, movement ability.

Adam Schafer (88:38)

Yeah.

Caller or Guest (88:38)

In all the different planes. So I think that works perfectly. And I was joking with my wife that my 30s, which I just started, is the decade of the iron cross is what I. Is what I joked about. So before I get 40, I want to be able to hit an iron cross.

Justin Andrews (additional commentary) (88:53)

Watch how strong you get, though, just focusing on that.

Sal DeStefano (88:56)

Just so you know, it's one of the craziest bicep building movements you could do.

Caller or Guest (89:01)

I believe it.

Adam Schafer (89:02)

That's. And this is why, too. I say, like, if. If I'm doing those movements, I'm just trying to practice that as if it was a sport. And then once a week, I'm probably doing, you know, yes. Some of the leg stuff for mass performance.

Sal DeStefano (89:14)

That's it.

Adam Schafer (89:15)

It's leg stuff for mass performance. And then I'm doing all. Practicing the rings, the movements that we just talked about. And then you're throwing. If you do anything else, it's mobility work. That's from performance to just.

Sal DeStefano (89:26)

Just to add to that. Don't. If you're doing. You're going out to your garage or whatever to do the rings, don't think of it like a workout. Okay. It's not like you're doing a maps workout. You're going out there to practice.

Caller or Guest (89:38)

Yeah.

Sal DeStefano (89:38)

That will get you way better and stronger than going out and like trying to get a workout.

Caller or Guest (89:43)

Yeah, yeah.

Sal DeStefano (89:44)

You just go out there and practice all the time, you know, 30 minutes.

Justin Andrews (additional commentary) (89:46)

Yeah.

Sal DeStefano (89:46)

And you'll get. You'll progress skill development.

Justin Andrews (additional commentary) (89:49)

You're building a new skill.

Caller or Guest (89:51)

Yeah, that sounds great.

Adam Schafer (89:52)

Cool idea, though.

Justin Andrews (additional commentary) (89:53)

Yeah.

Sal DeStefano (89:54)

Do it, man.

Justin Andrews (additional commentary) (89:54)

Get strong, man. Definitely. Yeah.

Caller or Guest (89:56)

Sounds great.

Adam Schafer (89:57)

Yeah.

Caller or Guest (89:57)

Really quick.

Adam Schafer (89:58)

Yeah.

Caller or Guest (89:58)

I just want to thank you guys for something very specifically. My wife and I, we've married for a while, but she. She has endometriosis and she's had two surgeries for endometriosis. And we've gone to naturopaths, you know, we've done all the clean eating. We've done everything, you know, everything. And, you know, symptoms got better, blah, blah, blah, but they started getting real bad. And it was only thanks to listening to you guys that she was willing to go on a reverse diet.

Kayla (Caller) (90:29)

Diet.

Caller or Guest (90:30)

And within three weeks, her reverse diet completely changed her life. Every month she was getting seriously bad migraines and all sorts of things and throwing up, and it was bad. And we thought we were going to have to have another surgery, but again, thanks to you guys, reverse diet, within three weeks, she gained five pounds and hasn't had a migraine since.

Sal DeStefano (90:50)

Wow, that's remarkable. Yeah, it is.

Caller or Guest (90:53)

Kind of absolutely wild. I don't know how a naturopath. Did you, you know, recommend gaining some weight? But. Yeah, thank you guys so much.

Sal DeStefano (91:01)

Yeah, you got it.

Caller or Guest (91:01)

I'm glad you changed our lives.

Adam Schafer (91:02)

That's awesome.

Sal DeStefano (91:03)

Thanks, Tyler.

Caller or Guest (91:04)

Yeah, have a good one.

Sal DeStefano (91:05)

You too.

Justin Andrews (additional commentary) (91:05)

Have a good one.

Adam Schafer (91:06)

He's metabolically, that's why.

Sal DeStefano (91:09)

No idea. Typically you're looking at improving insulin sensitivity, but it depends on the individual. I wonder if she was like, super undereating and.

Adam Schafer (91:17)

Yeah, it had to be that. Yeah, yeah. I mean, my sister. My sister has been riddled with that for a really long time.

Sal DeStefano (91:22)

Yeah.

Adam Schafer (91:24)

I. I have to ask her about when she's gone through phases where she's really, really. And she, She. I know she's more sensitive for sure. When she's. When she's lost a lot of weight and she's low calorie, then, Then that she doesn't have that same metabolic. And so maybe building the muscle allows that. And so she's not getting the autoimmune. But that's interesting.

Sal DeStefano (91:41)

It is.

Adam Schafer (91:42)

That's the first time I've heard that.

Sal DeStefano (91:43)

How long did you just do rings for, Justin? You did it for a while, right?

Justin Andrews (additional commentary) (91:46)

Yeah, I did it almost a full year where I. Yeah, I took this certification that was all gymnastics based and so I was really trying to move this, this crazy, like, Clydesdale body around, doing stuff like that. And then, yeah, I was messing with him for a long time. I did some weights, but for the most part I was trying literally to get a muscle up and I was trying to do a lot of these front levers and things and it was like, my legs are really heavy. Oh, my God.

Adam Schafer (92:13)

Did you wear the. The leotard?

Justin Andrews (additional commentary) (92:15)

I definitely did it and it was. Yeah.

Sal DeStefano (92:17)

No, you didn't.

Adam Schafer (92:18)

Why would I.

Justin Andrews (additional commentary) (92:19)

Why would I wear leads?

Sal DeStefano (92:20)

I don't make one that size, bro.

Jaclyn (Caller) (92:21)

Yeah.

Sal DeStefano (92:25)

No.

Justin Andrews (additional commentary) (92:26)

And I did most of it at my house.

Sal DeStefano (92:27)

Did I tell you guys when I was.

Adam Schafer (92:29)

When you wear. Really?

Sal DeStefano (92:31)

I never competed in powerlifting. Okay. But I trained like a powerlifter for. For a season. So. You wanted to wear this. I bought a singlet. Why did I do that?

Adam Schafer (92:38)

Of course you did.

Sal DeStefano (92:39)

Why did I do that? Of course, in my. In my own gym. I just worked out in it for a couple times.

Adam Schafer (92:42)

No, you didn't.

Sal DeStefano (92:43)

Yes, they do.

Adam Schafer (92:44)

Oh, my God. I wish we were friends back then, too. Oh, my God.

Sal DeStefano (92:47)

I wish you would have prevented it.

Adam Schafer (92:49)

No, I would have encouraged it. You look so good in that.

Sal DeStefano (92:51)

You would. You would have lied to me.

Adam Schafer (92:53)

I would have lied to you, I.

Sal DeStefano (92:54)

Would have lied to you, let you do it for a long time, and then I would have made fun of you for years.

Adam Schafer (92:58)

Knuckle.

Justin Andrews (93:02)

Our next caller is Rob from New Jersey.

Sal DeStefano (93:04)

What up, Rob?

Justin Andrews (additional commentary) (93:05)

Hey guys, how's it.

Rob (Caller) (93:07)

Happy to be here.

Sal DeStefano (93:10)

So how can we help you?

Rob (Caller) (93:12)

So I'm 53 years old and I basically, I, I can't seem to grow and I don't know why. I, I think I'm doing everything right. My nutrition, I think is where I need it to be. My workout intensity is, is high, frequency is consistent. I think the two factors for me are sleeping and stress. Those are the two things I really can't say are optimum.

Adam Schafer (93:49)

That paired with, that paired with the consistency and the intensity could be your problem. So if you already know that you're not the best at sleeping, you've got a little bit of a, a stressful life, and then you also hit the gym pretty intense, this could be the exact reason why you're not seeing the results that you deserve.

Sal DeStefano (94:14)

Tell me about your sleep, Rob. What's going on?

Rob (Caller) (94:17)

So my, I'm up early in the morning. I start my day at 4:30, I'm trying to bed at 9 or 9:30 and I, I have sleep. I wake up with thoughts and ideas and sometimes I'm up at 3, sometimes I'm up at 2:30 and that's when my day starts.

Sal DeStefano (94:37)

How long has that been happening?

Rob (Caller) (94:39)

My whole life.

Sal DeStefano (94:41)

Okay. Sometimes reducing training intensity and volume helps us sleep. Do you take any supplements before bed?

Rob (Caller) (94:50)

I do. I take zinc, magnesium and that's it. Before bed.

Caller or Guest (94:58)

That's all I did.

Sal DeStefano (94:58)

Try apigenin.

Rob (Caller) (95:00)

Apigenin.

Sal DeStefano (95:01)

Apigenin really helps a lot. There's a lot of data now coming out. It's one of the active components in chamomile.

Rob (Caller) (95:09)

Okay.

Sal DeStefano (95:09)

You can also add theanine to that if you want to add one more thing. And those two things. I've had the best success with the people that I've worked with that I've helped. Other than that. Here's the other thing too, right, Rob? You, you look fit, dude. You're 53. You might be a little hard on yourself.

Adam Schafer (95:28)

Yeah, you do look good.

Sal DeStefano (95:29)

You look good, bro.

Rob (Caller) (95:30)

Yeah, well, thanks. Yeah, yeah, I appreciate that. But I think I should look better than who?

Sal DeStefano (95:37)

Let me ask you, when you're around your 53 year old friends and you guys are all hanging out and you're at the beach or whatever, you're doing stuff, who looks the best? How, how much, how much further are you than them in terms of, of fitness.

Adam Schafer (95:52)

Yeah.

Rob (Caller) (95:53)

I would say that I'm more fit and more active, more able than a lot of my friends that are my age. So we all work on cars and my friends have a hard time getting around or under the car or something and I could easily roll around and slip over the car and do all that kind of stuff well, so I'm happy about that. And that is one of the motivating things for me to stay fit so that I could do this kind of physical work for a long time.

Sal DeStefano (96:20)

Good for you. Yeah. But also, let's be honest, it's a different universe, Rob. I know people in their 50s and you're in a completely different universe.

Justin Andrews (additional commentary) (96:30)

Yeah.

Sal DeStefano (96:30)

Right. So I'm just trying to communicate to you that don't be so hard on yourself. But maybe I could send you a program to follow that will help you out a little bit and then try those supplements before bed to see how they help.

Adam Schafer (96:43)

Help.

Sal DeStefano (96:43)

How many days a week do you work out?

Rob (Caller) (96:46)

Three, Sometimes four, but always three.

Sal DeStefano (96:49)

Do you have a home gym or do you go to the gym?

Rob (Caller) (96:52)

I have a gym. I live in a department building and we have a, a gym in the building.

Sal DeStefano (96:57)

Okay. Maps 15.

Adam Schafer (96:58)

Dude, of course that's the place I went was that direction. Especially since we haven't got into what those routine. You seem like the type of guy that, that pushes while you're in the gym too. I mean, are you training pretty intense?

Rob (Caller) (97:10)

I do, yeah. I don't have a lot of time to be in the gym, so I don't do a long drawn workout. I want every, every move to be effective and meaningful. So I do. I push hard, strict on my form and I try to make the most of every rep.

Sal DeStefano (97:28)

Rob, if you'll, if you'll give us, just give me three weeks. Okay. I'm going to send you maps 15. You're not going to like it. But in three, after about three weeks, you're going to love it though. Okay. You're gonna be in the gym.

Justin Andrews (additional commentary) (97:39)

It's like medicine.

Sal DeStefano (97:40)

You're gonna be in the gym about six or seven days a week, but you're only gonna be in there for about 20 minutes.

Adam Schafer (97:44)

You're only doing two exercises a day.

Sal DeStefano (97:45)

That's it.

Adam Schafer (97:45)

That's it.

Sal DeStefano (97:46)

Okay. And after about two weeks or so, you'll start to see yourself get stronger and feel better and then you'll know it's working.

Caller or Guest (97:53)

Okay.

Sal DeStefano (97:53)

So I'm gonna send that to you if you, if you, if you're okay with trusting us. For a couple weeks.

Rob (Caller) (97:57)

That's why I'm here.

Sal DeStefano (97:58)

All right, I'm gonna send that to you.

Adam Schafer (97:59)

And I, and I see, I already, I already saw. You're pretty good. You, you, you exceed your protein goals. You're good on, you're good on food, it looks like. I mean, and so that's. Since you're just keep doing that fat.

Sal DeStefano (98:10)

Yeah.

Adam Schafer (98:10)

And I, and I, I really do think it's the volume and intensity. You're probably.

Justin Andrews (additional commentary) (98:14)

This may unlock those gains.

Adam Schafer (98:16)

Yeah. Hopefully we start seeing a little bit, a little bit improvement. Just a little bit of improvement in sleep and the reduction of intensity and volume on your training. I think you're going to see results from that right away.

Sal DeStefano (98:25)

Yep.

Rob (Caller) (98:25)

So another thing about my eating is, is I could eat more. Like I'm, I'm always hungry.

Adam Schafer (98:31)

Okay.

Rob (Caller) (98:32)

And I'm always eating good whole foods. I'm not eating any junk at all.

Adam Schafer (98:35)

Okay.

Rob (Caller) (98:36)

And I could eat more, but I think that I start to see a layer of fat when I increase my calories more.

Sal DeStefano (98:45)

How lean are you?

Rob (Caller) (98:47)

I don't know what my percentage is, but currently you can't see my abs.

Sal DeStefano (98:52)

You can or you can't?

Adam Schafer (98:53)

Can't. Cannot.

Sal DeStefano (98:54)

Okay. I mean, if you're going to build muscle, you're probably going to gain a little bit of body, but you don't need to go in that big of a surplus to gain strength. So I'm assuming a guy like you, you're probably pretty structured, so you probably eat right around the same kind of things every day.

Rob (Caller) (99:09)

Yeah.

Sal DeStefano (99:09)

Okay. Add like a 250 calorie meal. Just, just an additional small meal and that's it. And then follow Maps 15 and that should be enough to, to start to see some muscle growth.

Adam Schafer (99:21)

Is it, is there a certain time in the day, like, is it like middle of the day you find yourself extra hungry? Is it at night? Is there a certain time? Just.

Rob (Caller) (99:29)

I could probably have one more meal.

Adam Schafer (99:31)

During my work day.

Caller or Guest (99:31)

Work day.

Adam Schafer (99:32)

Work day. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Sal DeStefano (99:33)

Go for it. Yeah.

Adam Schafer (99:34)

Out of a cottage cheese or a Greek yogurt type of something. That's like a nice balance, like easy 200, 300 calorie types.

Sal DeStefano (99:41)

That's it.

Adam Schafer (99:41)

And just. That's it. And that, that little bit of an increase with the reduction of intensity, I think we see an improvement in sleep and I think we build some muscle.

Sal DeStefano (99:49)

Yeah. I wouldn't be surprised if you gained a few pounds of muscle at the end of the program.

Adam Schafer (99:52)

Yeah. I'd love to hear back from you. I'd love to touch bases with you. Give us. Give us 30 days.

Sal DeStefano (99:56)

Let's get you back on.

Caller or Guest (99:57)

All right, great.

Adam Schafer (99:58)

Yeah, yeah, let's do that, Rob.

Sal DeStefano (100:00)

You got it, man.

Caller or Guest (100:01)

Thank you.

Adam Schafer (100:01)

All right, man.

Sal DeStefano (100:03)

Yeah. It's always. It's always so. So I was just thinking about this. This morning, I'm in the gym working out, and there's a, you know, I go early, right? So you see the regular crowd, and you'll see people, they appear to be in their 50s, 60s, fit, and, you know, you just. You get used to it because you see these people. But when you're fit and you're older, the older you get, as long as you maintain your fitness, man, you become an anomaly. It is so different than the average person that age. It's so different. You're 65 and you're working out. Your friends are on medications and hurt all the time. Yeah, that's the difference. It's like, I work out and I. I can do that, and I feel good, and my friends hurt all the time, and they're on seven different medications. That's crazy. Yeah, it's amazing. So, you know, just talking to someone, like, you tell he's fit, you can see, yeah, he's doing great. So, like, you know, sometimes, too, because, you know, okay, we can make improvements, but sometimes, like, take a, you know, look at. Look at the big picture, you know, and be like, oh, yeah, that's right. I'm doing pretty good, man.

Adam Schafer (101:01)

Well, yeah, there's no doubt he's. He's healthy and fit. He's healthy and fit for any age. You could tell he. You can tell he's not like. So even though he can't see his abs. We've talked about this before. I mean, he's probably necessarily. Yeah, he's probably in the low, low teens of. Of body fat percentage, which is very healthy for 53. But I also get two. If you're the guy who eats whole foods, you're very consistent with your protein. You're training four days a week. You get after it in the gym that, hey, shouldn't I.

Sal DeStefano (101:26)

A couple tweaks.

Adam Schafer (101:27)

Yeah.

Caller or Guest (101:28)

And.

Adam Schafer (101:28)

And a lot of times what it. And my. Right away when he said that sleep and stress isn't the best of things, and then he gets after his workouts. To me, it's like, it's very obvious. It's like I pull back on that intensity and that bumper calories volume, bump calories a tiny bit, and he should build some muscle.

Sal DeStefano (101:43)

Totally.

Justin Andrews (101:44)

Our next caller is Kayla from Louisiana.

Sal DeStefano (101:46)

Hi, Kayla.

Justin Andrews (additional commentary) (101:46)

Hello.

Adam Schafer (101:47)

How you doing.

Kayla (Caller) (101:50)

So first of all, this is surreal and I'm just going to read what I wrote. Okay, before I introduce myself, I just want to say I found the podcast about a year ago and I've basically been binging it ever since.

Caller or Guest (102:01)

Awesome.

Kayla (Caller) (102:01)

Going back through many episodes. And this isn't one of the obligatory compliments. Your content has truly shifted how I view health fitness and I don't say that lightly.

Sal DeStefano (102:11)

Thank you.

Justin Andrews (additional commentary) (102:12)

Awesome.

Kayla (Caller) (102:13)

I shout your name, recommend you guys to everyone I know. And I also want to shout out to Doug the production quality, the flow. It's incredible and it's not unnoticed. And in your recent episode with Roxanne, which I absolutely loved, you mentioned how people are often surprised at how you're exactly the same all there as in person. And that's where you're so impactful. Your authenticity truly shows. So that's my thank you.

Adam Schafer (102:38)

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Kayla (Caller) (102:41)

Now onto my question. My name is Kayla. I'm from South Louisiana, a true Cajun through and through. I'm a 37 year old retired business owner, now domestic engineer, CEO of this household. I'm a mom of four. My kids are 8, 4, 6 and 2. I've always been very active my entire life I've played sports and in the last three, almost four years I've gotten really serious about my health, fitness and longevity after having my third child, which was my first daughter. My first two were boys and after becoming a mom to a daughter it really shifted how I thought about modeling health, strength and my self talk to be very honest and vulnerable. I am a self proclaimed recovering body dysmorphic arthorexic scale addict. I've done a lot of work around this mentally and I've come a long ways, but the scale can still be mentally loud even when the process is sound. I'm about two and a half years postpartum from my fourth baby, another girl. I've been working with an online coach since June. We've started or we started in a deficit and I lost ten pounds and then we transitioned into a build which I'm currently, currently still in a build. Training wise, I strength train five days a week, two glute hamstring days, one traditional lower, one push, one pull. I average about 10,000 steps a day, often quite more, which is easily done with the lifestyle of four kids. And we're just active. I play tennis once a week, doubles. I do pilates and yoga on the weekend as part of my active recovery. I'm very disciplined, honestly to a fault. Kind of like Sal and consistency and discipline have never really been the issue for me. Little Body Composition Context after my third baby, when I was in arguably the best shape of my life, my DEXA put me at about 20% body fat. My most recent DEXA this past December put me at about 15% body fat, which I don't share as a flex. But to illustrate that my goals are about performance, longevity and sustainability, we've continued increasing calories. I'm currently at about 2,300 calories. 120 protein. Because of some gut issues, we decreased my protein for digestion 300 carbs 70 fat. My metabolism adapted really well. Like we kept pushing food, my body composition just improved noticeably stronger in the gym. The improvements in strength and performance have honestly been the most validating part of this whole process. For most of the reverse, the scale did not move. The scale has stayed stable within 3 pounds and then I had one week where the scale legit went up 12 pounds in a week and it devastated my mental health health. Admittedly since submitting the question, though, one very important variable that came to light was I started a very high dose of a corticosteroid with a tapering protocol because of some gut issues, whole separate conversation. But once that medication kind of leveled out, my weight stabilized again back down to basically where we started the build. So I understand now the spike was not purely body composition related, but the question still stands because even when the changes are explainable, the mental process can still be challenging. I think most of us, especially women, know the technical how of a bulk, a build calorie surplus progressive over adequate protein, where the struggle isn't necessarily the knowledge but the managing the expectations and the mindset while the process is actually unfolding. And this is where I want your clarity. What is realistic weight gain during a bulk? Over what timeframe should it be evaluated when starting a cut? How aggressive should that cut typically be? Is it only carbs and fats that are adjusted while you keep your protein? What's a realistic rate of fat loss during a cut that still supports strength and muscle retention? And on the mental side of things, how do you help clients distinguish between normal expected discomfort during a productive bulk, excuse me versus signs that something really needs adjusting? And for those of us who struggle, scale fixation body dysmorphic what are the best ways to track progress? Measurements, photos, performance? Dexa, what do you recommend without letting the scale undermine your mental health health? Like I said, I think a lot of women want to build muscle, but on the mental side, trusting the process through the normal Fluctuations is often the biggest barrier. Love your perspective on that. And if you're still with me, not sleeping, thank you for listening. I really appreciate your insight time and I really do look forward to your insight on this great detail.

Sal DeStefano (106:39)

God bless you. I love you. Great questions that I'm not going to answer. I'm not going to answer a single question.

Justin Andrews (additional commentary) (106:45)

Glad you got that out.

Sal DeStefano (106:46)

Okay, so.

Caller or Guest (106:47)

So.

Sal DeStefano (106:48)

Because I'm talking to you.

Caller or Guest (106:49)

Okay.

Sal DeStefano (106:50)

And you gave me a lot of background.

Kayla (Caller) (106:51)

I have my 2 year old right here. So if you hear mommy, she's right here.

Sal DeStefano (106:54)

No worries. So you gave me a lot of context. I know who I'm talking to. So here's the answer. And this is what's going to help you. I don't know if you're going to want to do this, but this is going to help you stop tracking and measuring everything.

Adam Schafer (107:07)

Everything.

Sal DeStefano (107:08)

You're not going to stop it.

Adam Schafer (107:09)

You don't even ever need a cut either.

Sal DeStefano (107:10)

Don't track your Dexa. No more dexa. No more scale. No more studying yourself in the mirror. No more circumference measurements. Pay attention to the weight that you're lifting. That's fine. Because you're going to see that. Yeah. Strength. Stop tracking everything. That's the only way you're going to get out of this.

Adam Schafer (107:29)

Yeah.

Sal DeStefano (107:29)

And you're going to be. Not only you're going to be fine, you're going to be better.

Adam Schafer (107:32)

Yeah.

Sal DeStefano (107:33)

Because you're trapped in a cycle right now and what you're doing. Okay. Is you're managing it, or at least you're trying to manage it. So you know what the challenges are with, you know, dysfunction around, you know, fitness and nutrition. And so what you're trying to do is you're trying to fix it by controlling it, which is the exact opposite.

Adam Schafer (107:52)

Yeah.

Sal DeStefano (107:52)

Of what you need to do because the root of the issue is control. Okay. So it's like. It's like I'm trying to control my way out of a control issue. It's not going to work. It's just going to be the same. It's just going to be the same. Same. So stop tracking everything and you'll be totally fine.

Adam Schafer (108:11)

Yeah.

Sal DeStefano (108:11)

You'll be. You're going to be way down.

Adam Schafer (108:13)

Well, it'll be extremely difficult is what. It'll be hard. But it's. It is. It's the path. It's the path. You, you like, like you've already said about yourself, you don't lack discipline. You don't act. You don't lack movement, you don't lack motivation. You got. You have all the tools to be a healthy, fit person for the rest of your life. The thing that is crutching you is the obsession with the cutting, the bulking, the DEXA scan that. All those things you, You. I mean, you. That's what you got to get rid of. You got to get rid of all that stuff. You, you, you. It sounds. What you're doing right now is you're reverse dieting for. To go back into a cut. You should be reverse dieting to stay somewhere forever and not count calories. You should be reverse dieting to get to a place where you're like, man, I feel well fed. I'm strong. I have good energy, I sleep well. And I think I land somewhere around 23 to 2600. I don't know.

Caller or Guest (109:05)

Know.

Adam Schafer (109:05)

I don't know. I land somewhere around. I know I'm eating a good amount of weight or amount of food that maintains me in this healthy place that I don't really even pay attention to because I don't see huge swings down or up. It's just. Our goal is to get to intuitive eating and to not be a tracker. And where. And. And. And the motivation is. How you started the conversation is that I don't want my daughter to see me weighing and measuring food and constantly in a reverse diet to just get into a cut. Do like. No, I want her to see me eat on a normal dinner plate like with everybody else, and we. And. And. And not be counting and tracking on my phone or checking my DEXA scan results.

Sal DeStefano (109:45)

Kayla, what are you scared of?

Kayla (Caller) (109:48)

Not having a goal, I think is part of it because I feel like what happens. So back in October, I had a very hard, fast goal. I was actually very honored to be part of a magazine photo shoot for Strong magazine. And with that, there was a goal. Right. So it was very dialed in, per se, in terms of I knew the goal. And now it's like when I don't have a goal to shoot for. I don't know, like, how I don't. If I'm not tracking or if I'm not keeping track of the weights I lift. Like, I don't know. I don't know if that makes sense.

Sal DeStefano (110:21)

It does, but we got to get. We got to get further.

Kayla (Caller) (110:24)

I agree with you about the control thing. I know this about myself. I do have control issues.

Sal DeStefano (110:28)

Yeah. So.

Adam Schafer (110:29)

So I know this about myself.

Sal DeStefano (110:30)

So being afraid of not having a goal is not really what you're afraid of. It's. It's what you think's going to happen when you don't have a goal? What do you think's going to happen?

Kayla (Caller) (110:37)

Oh, well, that's an obvious one for me.

Sal DeStefano (110:40)

What is it?

Kayla (Caller) (110:40)

It goes back to my root of the scale. Say it goes back to looking in the mirror and not liking who I look.

Sal DeStefano (110:47)

Yeah.

Kayla (Caller) (110:47)

How I look.

Sal DeStefano (110:48)

What do you think you're going to look like if you don't have a goal?

Kayla (Caller) (110:51)

I guess it's not that I don't have a goal. I don't know. That's an interesting question that I think I would have to think harder on. But I think you are correct that it goes back to that fear of.

Jaclyn (Caller) (111:03)

I don't know.

Kayla (Caller) (111:03)

And I say that my goal is health and longevity. But sometimes aesthetics still get caught up in there.

Sal DeStefano (111:10)

You got to say what you're afraid of so that you can hear it. What do you think's going to happen? What's the fear. What's going to happen to Kayla if she doesn't have a goal?

Kayla (Caller) (111:20)

Trauma from way back when surfaces through this. You're gonna make me cry. Because I know why. Sometimes it's not to say superficial, but sometimes I feel like it can be superficial when that's not the long term goal. And I fear that I go back to not liking who I see in the mirror. Physically.

Sal DeStefano (111:41)

Yeah.

Kayla (Caller) (111:41)

And that's not. That's not good.

Sal DeStefano (111:43)

But, Kayla, I gotta tell you something. Hunter, you're not treating yourself like you. Like yourself right now.

Kayla (Caller) (111:49)

I hear you say it all the time. And I hear your voice in my head.

Sal DeStefano (111:52)

Yeah. It's so. So you got to think. What. What do you. What is the fear? What's gonna happen? What do you think you're gonna look like.

Kayla (Caller) (112:05)

That.

Sal DeStefano (112:06)

Yeah. You're not. No, that's not gonna happen.

Adam Schafer (112:09)

No.

Sal DeStefano (112:09)

And you got. Listen, you got four kids.

Kayla (Caller) (112:12)

Yes.

Sal DeStefano (112:12)

Your value to them is not. If mom is 15% body fat.

Kayla (Caller) (112:18)

I see you, baby.

Sal DeStefano (112:19)

Yeah. That's not your value. You gotta let go of it. And here's. Now here's the thing. I can't just.

Adam Schafer (112:25)

Or are you gonna pass it down? Let that be your motivation.

Kayla (Caller) (112:27)

I can't make me cry.

Adam Schafer (112:29)

Yes.

Sal DeStefano (112:29)

Yes. Yes.

Adam Schafer (112:31)

That's what I would say to you if I was coaching you. Let that be your motivation.

Sal DeStefano (112:35)

You can't. And look, you can't just not do something. So I'm gonna tell you what to do. Do. Okay. Focus on enjoying the workouts. Focus on enjoying the nourishment that you're doing. Focus on the freedom of breaking free from these chains that's the focus. So when you go work out, have fun. Am I having fun?

Kayla (Caller) (112:57)

You know, honestly, Sal, I do. I thoroughly enjoy my workout so much that I wake up very early to get it done because I love it.

Sal DeStefano (113:04)

Good.

Kayla (Caller) (113:04)

I really do.

Sal DeStefano (113:05)

Just focus on that. I like.

Adam Schafer (113:07)

Like when. When I'm training somebody like you, I really like to take you into a workout routine that's so different. And that's all we talk about when we focus on, like, for example, I don't know if you've ever done something different and weird, like old timey, where we're doing these weird kind of movements and we. And we get more into that. Like, we get more into. Okay. Okay.

Kayla (Caller) (113:27)

So windmills.

Adam Schafer (113:28)

Yes. Yes.

Kayla (Caller) (113:29)

Always talk about. Because I have a few of your programs, I don't think I have old time and that.

Adam Schafer (113:33)

And someone like you. I love to. To move into a place, like, drastically different. It's so drastically different that it. It forces you to just think about the movement because you're like, I've never done this. This is weird. And it's like, yes, let's get all into that. Let's get all into trying to figure that out and getting good at that and moving that way and move away from looking in the mirror. The scale, my DEXA scan, and try and like. And if you just do that and you eat the way you've always ate, which is healthy and good, and you don't wear and track and measure about it, you just. Just make the same choices you've always made when you're hungry.

Sal DeStefano (114:05)

You're not gonna blow up.

Adam Schafer (114:06)

You're not.

Sal DeStefano (114:07)

It's not gonna happen.

Adam Schafer (114:07)

But look, you're not.

Sal DeStefano (114:08)

Are you open to working with a coach? Are you? Yes.

Adam Schafer (114:11)

It is super scary.

Sal DeStefano (114:12)

Kayla, I'm speaking from personal experience. Can I tell you what I just recently did? I got rid of my.

Kayla (Caller) (114:17)

You got rid of the scale? I've been listening. Yes. And when you said that, I'm like, that's what I need to do.

Sal DeStefano (114:21)

Yeah. And you know what? I hate it.

Kayla (Caller) (114:23)

And you know, I weigh myself just like you every single morning when I don't weigh myself. Like, I wonder what I weigh today when we're camping.

Sal DeStefano (114:27)

I don't.

Kayla (Caller) (114:28)

I used to bring a scale camping with us. How ridiculous.

Sal DeStefano (114:31)

Yeah, listen. Don't, don't. Yeah, I get it. Listen, you know what I started doing? I started using circumference measurements. I caught myself the other day. I'm like, wait a minute. What am I? Traded one thing for something else? Are you open to working with a Coach.

Kayla (Caller) (114:43)

I've often heard you guys talk about Corinne. Yeah, that's the one that I've often hear you guys talking about. But I am absolutely open and willing. I've actually had a call scheduled, but at the timing, I've always had to cancel this. Hashtag, life, wife, four kids.

Adam Schafer (114:55)

Yeah.

Kayla (Caller) (114:56)

And it's just. It's never came to fruition. Just because.

Sal DeStefano (114:58)

I'll have her call you. Yeah, let's have her call you. And what you're gonna have to do is just follow what she tells you, because you're gonna hate it at first.

Adam Schafer (115:06)

Yeah.

Sal DeStefano (115:06)

Until you. Until you start to figure it out. It's super hard. Are you kidding me?

Adam Schafer (115:09)

Yeah.

Sal DeStefano (115:09)

Yeah, it's super hard.

Adam Schafer (115:11)

But that's the. The move is to invest in yourself and outsource it right now. So.

Sal DeStefano (115:16)

Yeah.

Adam Schafer (115:17)

So you can just let it go. Okay. I've got a coach who's really good at what they do, and I'm just. And I'm gonna take my. My competitiveness that I have or my focus that I have on listening to what they have to say and following what they have to say, and then also somebody who gives you that consistent feedback because you need to hear it.

Kayla (Caller) (115:33)

I'm definitely uber competitive.

Adam Schafer (115:35)

Yeah. So. So, yeah. And we'll put it towards the right.

Sal DeStefano (115:38)

You know what, too, like, trying to control everything's exhausting. It's going to feel so freeing when you let go of these things, but it's so scary.

Kayla (Caller) (115:49)

Ken, I was just gonna say, though, for sake of. You don't have to answer today on the call, but I do know that I posed the question on the kua too, and there was a lot of people that actually said it was a good question. So maybe for other women who want to manage whatever. I don't know if they're as, quote, extreme as me, because I. I know this about myself.

Sal DeStefano (116:08)

Yeah.

Kayla (Caller) (116:08)

But just the hard facts about expectations, because I do think that is a hard part. Like, when the scale jumped on me like that, it was.

Adam Schafer (116:15)

Well, look, you.

Sal DeStefano (116:16)

You are.

Adam Schafer (116:16)

You are way more. Way more common than you think you are.

Sal DeStefano (116:20)

Yeah.

Adam Schafer (116:20)

But this is. This. This. There. There is a. There is a lot of women that struggle with. This is most of our career. The reason why we can articulate this is because it's been decades of talking to people. None of us were that good at 23, talking to someone like you didn't know what the hell we're doing. But years and years and years and years of helping a lot of people. And what we always say on the Podcast I know you hear this is like the hard part is the psychological part. It is not the physical part. It is not the discipline. It's not. It's like, it's the psychological part. And that's the value of the coach is having somebody who understands that, who is constantly communicating with you and knows that about you. Like, you don't need somebody who's going to measure macros and adjust calories for you so much as to talk to you and say, you're going to be okay. We're doing the right thing, trust me.

Sal DeStefano (117:06)

And you know, like a 12 pound weight gain in a week. Week is impossible to be body fat. Yeah, it's impossible objectively.

Kayla (Caller) (117:13)

I know that.

Sal DeStefano (117:15)

And you know what? If you didn't weigh yourself all the time, it wouldn't have freaked you out as much. You might have felt something and you'd be like, what's going on?

Kayla (Caller) (117:21)

It was obvious.

Adam Schafer (117:22)

Now I looked, you were probably puffy. You were probably puffy. Yeah.

Grow Therapy Advertiser (117:25)

Yeah.

Adam Schafer (117:25)

You're holding a bunch of water.

Sal DeStefano (117:26)

Yeah, you're holding.

Adam Schafer (117:27)

And see if I was coaching you. That's why I say you, I don't even worry about you. You're holding a bunch of water right now.

Sal DeStefano (117:31)

That's right.

Adam Schafer (117:31)

You're holding. I know what, I'm controlling your diet. I know what's going on with your training. I know your steps, reps. Don't worry, I know what that is. That's water. You're holding it. And it could be a hormone thing, could be a shot we took, it could be a lot.

Kayla (Caller) (117:42)

It was the steroids.

Adam Schafer (117:43)

Yeah, of course, of course. And I would tell you, and that's what you see in the mirror right now is the, a puffy version of you right now holding a bunch of water. Don't worry, that'll release. It'll come out. And, and you saw it did. But that's the value of the good coach, is that when that moment happens, it doesn't spiral you out of control or keep you up or stress you out because I, I let you know right away, like, oh, yeah, don't even trip. You're holding water right now. I can see it on you. Well, it'll release.

Sal DeStefano (118:06)

Yeah.

Kayla (Caller) (118:06)

Bring me back to high school.

Adam Schafer (118:07)

Yeah, that's what I would say to you now.

Sal DeStefano (118:09)

This is going to be great. This is going to be great. We'll have a coach call you. I think this is going to be great. It's going to be hard, but you're going to come out of this and you're going to Be so much happier. Yeah.

Caller or Guest (118:20)

Okay.

Sal DeStefano (118:21)

Yes.

Adam Schafer (118:22)

Let's got you.

Sal DeStefano (118:23)

Okay, let's do it. You know what?

Kayla (Caller) (118:24)

You were quiet today, man.

Adam Schafer (118:26)

Yeah. I mean, I'm just listening when he gets emotional. That's why.

Kayla (Caller) (118:34)

It'S awesome, guys. It's awesome.

Sal DeStefano (118:36)

Appreciate.

Kayla (Caller) (118:36)

You guys are awesome.

Adam Schafer (118:37)

We'll take care.

Sal DeStefano (118:37)

God bless you. We're gonna have someone call you.

Adam Schafer (118:39)

All right, cool.

Kayla (Caller) (118:40)

Thank you.

Sal DeStefano (118:40)

Thank you. That's tough. Yeah, yeah. That's tough. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And all those questions she asked, like, I'm not gonna answer that. She even. She tried to get up. She tried to sneak one pass at the end just for other people listening. Nice try. Not gonna answer that.

Justin Andrews (additional commentary) (118:54)

Here's a hypothetical.

Sal DeStefano (118:55)

Yeah, but I have a friend. Yeah, no, it's tough, dude. I live it, man. I know what it's like, dude. It's. It's really, really. It's. It's always in the background. It's very, very difficult. But it's. It's not taking care of yourself. And it is trying to control everything. That's what it is.

Adam Schafer (119:12)

You gotta. You have to surrender and outsource and. And the tough part, I feel for the other listeners that can relate to that, it's also outsourcing somebody who actually really knows what they're doing.

Sal DeStefano (119:22)

Of course.

Adam Schafer (119:22)

Because again, you go to the wrong person. Yeah. You know, a trainer who's just going to focus on macros with her and then. And that. So it sounds like that's what she's done. Like she's got someone who's, oh, we're reverse diet. It's like, last thing you need to be doing is overly focusing on anything. Yeah. Like she's reverse dieting in order to put herself back into a cut, which she does.

Sal DeStefano (119:43)

I talked to you. I think I talked to you about this, Justin, off air, there's a guy named Jonathan Pageau that talks about the roots of fairy tales and what they meant and the fairy tale. And I think it's Sleeping Beauty, if I'm not mistaken. The one where the evil queen is like, mirror, mirror on the wall, who's the fairest? Is that okay?

Caller or Guest (120:01)

Yeah.

Adam Schafer (120:01)

Yeah.

Sal DeStefano (120:02)

You know what happens in that story? This evil princess says this. The mirror says, oh, the fairest in the land, the most beautiful is this young woman and Snow White. So you know what she does to corrupt this young lady? She gives her a gift, and it's a mirror and a brush. And you think, how does that corrupt.

Adam Schafer (120:19)

This beautiful too obsess about herself because.

Sal DeStefano (120:22)

Now she sees her reflection and she's aware of her beauty. How crazy is that? And that's like, I wonder if we didn't have mirrors and scales and, and all that. How many. You know, there's a lot of people that would benefit from not looking at those things all the time. Yeah, yeah. Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram Mind Pump Media. We'll see you there.

Justin Andrews (120:38)

Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body dramatically, improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB super bundle@mindpumpmedia.com the RGB Super Bundle includes Maps, Anabolic Maps, Performance and Maps Aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos. The RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam and Justin as you your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee and you can get it now. Plus other valuable free resources@mindpumpmedia.com if you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review on itunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is Mind Pump.