2781: What GLP-1s Exposed About Dieting, Training, and Longevity

Summary

Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth

Episode 2781 – What GLP-1s Exposed About Dieting, Training, and Longevity

Published: January 28, 2026
Hosts: Sal Di Stefano, Adam Schafer, Justin Andrews, Doug Egge

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Episode Overview

In this episode, the Mind Pump crew explores the explosive rise of GLP-1 medications (like Ozempic, Wegovy, etc.), their impact on society, and what the widespread use of these drugs reveals about the real factors behind obesity, dieting, successful body transformation, and the future of fitness coaching. The hosts blend their trademark wit, deep experience, and no-bs analysis to highlight hard truths about diet, muscle retention, training, and the essential role of knowledgeable coaching—especially as GLP-1s become more mainstream. The episode also includes impactful live coaching calls, tactical advice, and thoughtful discussions on relationships, mobility, and sustainability in health.

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Main Discussion: GLP-1s, Fat Loss, and What We've Learned

1. GLP-1 Medications: The New Era of Weight Loss

• Stats That Shock

  • “Between 2021 and today, GLP1 use has exploded over 600%. ...Some experts think that...2/3 of America will be on a GLP1 at some point.” – Sal Di Stefano (03:16)
  • Adam shares a personal story about a BBQ where almost every guy (and their wives) was on a GLP-1 drug, illustrating how its use now goes beyond those who are obese (04:52).

• From Disease Thinking to Truth

  • “All the myths around why we're so obese...it turns out, everybody, we're just eating too much.” – Sal (08:28)
  • Adam expands: “It just turns out people were overeating.” (08:32)
  • The hosts blast away at myths like genetic determinism, metabolic damage, or a ‘disease you can’t control’—pointing out that appetite reduction with GLP-1s universally produces weight loss, showing overeating is the primary driver.

• Undermining Body Positivity “At Any Size”

  • The hosts reflect on prominent body positivity influencers who now tout their rapid weight loss from GLP-1s:
    • “Now they're on Ozempic and they lost all this weight...It kind of flies in the face of that whole movement.” – Adam (09:40)
    • “Turns out people are not happy at any size. ...Being obese and having poor health...doesn't make you happy. It makes you feel terrible.” – Sal (10:14)

2. The "Muscle Loss" Trap

• GLP-1 = Eating Less = Losing Muscle, Unless...

  • “30 to 40% of the weight lost is muscle. So what happens when you change none of your physical activity? ...Your body pares muscle down. In essence, it slows your metabolism down.” – Sal (13:16)
  • Without prioritizing strength training and upping protein, significant muscle is lost — leading to adaptation, plateaus, metabolic slowdown, and the “skinny fat” problem.

• Protein — Suddenly Everyone’s Obsession

  • Adam highlights the market shift: “Starbucks is doing it now. ...Fast food is now using [protein] as a marketing point. ...Everybody’s going to be chasing protein.” (14:48)
  • But Sal cautions: “You can bump your protein. It'll help a little bit. ...But if you don't strength train, that's all you're going to get though.” (16:06)
  • Key point: Strength training is essential, not just high protein intake.

3. The Plateau Problem and Reverse Dieting

• Why Dieting Alone Fails Long Term

  • “If you just dramatically cut your calories...eventually your body learns how to burn less calories. ...You still plateau.” – Sal (17:41)

• Reverse Dieting Explained

  • “Reverse diet is you hit a plateau and ...go through a period of increasing my calories and strength training, try and build up muscle, trying to build up my metabolism.” – Sal (19:30)
  • Justin: “Ideally you'd actually do that first...build up your muscle mass. That's the ideal part, so then we can start scaling it down.” (20:03)

4. The Enduring Value of Coaches & Trainers

• GLP-1s Make Coaches More Important, Not Less

  • “We never went away...It just got more complicated than ever...Yes, you got easy to lose weight, but that's not solving the problem.” – Adam (20:54)
  • “As a trainer today, GLP1—holy cow...Your odds of success have gone through the roof [if you coach correctly].” – Sal (22:48)
  • Trainers assure muscle retention, build strength, and teach clients to transition off GLP-1s successfully, thereby preventing regain.

• Notable Example:

  • Warren, a 54-year-old client, lost over 40 pounds on a GLP-1, DID IT RIGHT by focusing on protein & strength, and now has a muscular, “ripped” physique.
  • “When people do it right, this is what you get—a body composition change, not just smaller fat.” – Adam (113:03)
  • Warren’s success story: (102:37–113:21)

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Live Coaching Calls: Breakdowns and Solutions

1. James (Texas):

Struggling with balancing big lifts, soreness, programming as a 55-year-old
Key Coaching Points:

• Sal: “If you feel good, sleeping well, progressing, an hour a day is probably okay. But you’ll know in three to four weeks if a change in programming is better.” (61:05–64:44)
• Adam: “You toggle back and forth...Sometimes I do things that aren’t most optimal for fat loss, but I enjoy it—there’s value in that.” (64:12)

2. Kiara (California):

Burned out by years of strict macro counting, relentless training, struggling to find sustainable balance before starting a family
Insightful Exchange:

• Sal sees the underlying issue: “How would you describe your relationship to your body?”
• Adam (tough love): “Your thermometer on what you think feels good and right is way off...The low calorie, the crazy amount of activity, the attraction to high intensity...You think you’re being loving to yourself and you’re doing the opposite.” (77:11)
• Great analogy: “It’s like an abusive relationship you have a hard time leaving.” (87:07)
• Solution: “Let go. Trust a competent coach through a re-patterning phase. It will be uncomfortable, but you will one day feel free, strong, and fit with 1/2 the struggle.” (83:41–85:55)

3. Chelsea (Oregon):

Female lifter, rapid muscle & strength gain (including short stint with Anavar), worried about joint health and muscle imbalance

• “At some point, getting stronger, the risk to reward isn’t worth it. ...The difference in the way your body would look wouldn’t be that big, but risk would be high.” – Sal (93:28)
• Prescription: “Symmetry is the program for you. ...Take some volume off the upper body, add it to lower body. Live in the unilateral phases.” (94:41, 96:12)
• “Most women will never build your kind of muscle. If you live in symmetry for a year...you’ll have remarkable changes, less injury.” (96:26)

4. Warren (California):

GLP-1 user, lost 40 lbs, seeking maintenance & further gains at age 54

• “You are the perfect GLP-1 user—high protein, strength training. Most people just eat less and lose muscle.” – Adam (104:41)
• Advice: “Controlled reverse diet, keep tracking, be aware of triggers, adjust behaviors. Possibly work with a coach for 6+ months through the transition off GLP-1s.” – Sal (106:07–110:54)
• Inspirational: “You shaved 20 years off your life...hell of a job.” – Adam (105:23)

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Quick Hit Topics & Memorable Asides

The “Under-Muscled” Epidemic

• “We do not have a fat problem, we have an under-muscled problem.” – Adam, referencing Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (21:01)

Strength Training + Protein: Always the Foundation

• “If you don’t strength train, that muscle’s gone. ...This is what people are starting to figure out with GLP-1s. ...Still gotta strength train. Still gotta work out.” – Sal (16:06–17:41)

Exercise Programming Nuance

• Important to not just go to the gym to burn calories; must think about movement patterns, periodization, recovery, etc. (63:57–65:47)

Underappreciated Movements

• Behind-the-neck presses and pull-downs: Once considered dangerous, but old-school bodybuilders had superior mobility and function; don’t fear these movements—practice them carefully if you want long-term shoulder health. (40:34–47:06)

Lifestyle Mobility Hacks

• “It’s not sitting, it’s sitting without breaks that’s the problem. If you sit a lot, you’ll erase the negative effects if every 15 minutes, you just stand up and move around a little bit.” – Sal (46:38–47:21)

Relationships & Sexuality Insights

• New research: Men's sexual desire peaks in late 30s/early 40s, not teens—due to emotional intimacy in long-term relationships (30:34–34:35).
• “Sex is a result of an intimate relationship. We’ve separated it, but it’s supposed to be the outcome, not the isolated act.” – Sal (35:20)
• Mini-hack: “Set a reasonable, joint goal with your partner. Accomplishing it can be the best aphrodisiac—better than novelty.” – Adam (39:14–40:34)

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

On The GLP-1 Story

• Sal (03:16):

  “Between 2021 and today, GLP1 use has exploded over 600%...some experts think...2/3 of America will be on a GLP1 at some point.”

• Sal (08:28):

  “All the myths around why we're so obese...It turns out, everybody, we're just eating too much.”

• Justin (09:36):

  “Pretty much killed the healthy at every size movement.”

On Coaching Value

• Adam (20:54):

  “We never went away...It just got more complicated than ever...Yes, you got easy to lose weight, but that's not solving the problem.”

On Sustainable Success

• Sal (16:06):

  “You gotta send the signal. You gotta strength train. If you don't strength train, that muscle's gone.”

On Plateaus and Adaptation

• Sal (17:41):

  “If you just dramatically cut your calories...eventually your body learns how to burn less calories. ...You still plateau.”

Live Callers

• Warren (after 40 lb loss, 113:04):

  “I walk around and people at the gym tell me, like, wow, you’re ripped. ...I’ve been overweight since I was in middle school.”

• Adam (Kiara’s call, 77:18):

  “Your thermometer on what you think feels good and right is way off...You think you’re being loving to yourself and you’re doing the opposite.”

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Additional Timestamps for Key Segments

• [03:16] – GLP-1 usage explosion and social implications
• [08:28] – Busted obesity myths
• [13:16] – Muscle loss and metabolic adaptation from calorie cuts
• [16:06] – Need for strength training on any weight loss drug
• [20:54] – Trainers’ value in the era of GLP-1
• [22:48] – Proper uses of GLP-1 + coaching = huge success
• [61:05–64:44] – James: Age-55 strength training balance call
• [74:34–87:55] – Kiara: Macro-counting, body image, and escape from all-or-nothing fitness
• [90:15–100:52] – Chelsea: Strong, muscular, how not to break your joints, specialized programming
• [102:37–113:21] – Warren: GLP-1 successful weight loss, maintaining results, and reverse diet transitions

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Tone & Approach

Throughout, the hosts are frank, supportive, and willing to give direct (sometimes tough) feedback—always pushing listeners and callers to see the deeper behavioral and psychological patterns that drive long-term change, not just surface-level habits or numbers. The conversations are peppered with practical wisdom, real-life anecdotes, and their signature banter.

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Takeaways

• GLP-1s show that overeating is the root of most obesity, but muscle and healthy behavior don’t come from appetite suppression alone.
• Sustained fat loss and genuine health require keeping or building muscle with strength training and plenty of protein—especially on weight loss drugs.
• Reverse dieting, training smart (not just hard), and working with knowledgeable coaches is more valuable than ever.
• The fitness industry's landscape will shift as more people use GLP-1s—coaches will guide clients through unique plateaus, muscle retention, and maintaining results post-drug.
• Behavioral change, triggers, and satisfaction with food and movement (versus restriction, punishment, and unsustainable grind) are what ultimately lead to sustainable transformation.

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Useful For

• Anyone considering, using, or coming off GLP-1 medications
• Coaches concerned about their future role in a “weight loss by prescription” world
• Lifters worried about metabolic adaptation/plateaus
• Listeners seeking insight into the real drivers of lasting body change—physical and psychological
• Those looking to escape the yo-yo cycle of extreme restriction, burnout, and rebound

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Find Mind Pump on Instagram @mindpumpmedia, or explore their coaching products and training protocols at mapsfitnessproducts.com.

Transcript

[Caller or Guest]

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[Podcast Host - Announcer]

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go.

[Adam Schaefer]

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[Sal Di Stefano]

Mind Pump.

[Podcast Host - Announcer]

With your hosts Sal Destefano, Adam Schaefer and Justin Andrews, you just found the.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Most downloaded fitness, health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump. In today's episode we had live callers. People called in and we coached them on air. But this was after our intro. Today's intro was 55 minutes long. In the intro we talked about fat loss and muscle gain, current events, family life. It's always a good time. By the way, if you want to be on an episode like this, here's what you do. Submit your [e-mail] now this episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is school. So we have a trainer forum in the school app. S K O O L. It's the Elite Trainer Academy. If you're a trainer, you want great information. You want great coaching. You want us to teach you because there's videos of us teaching trainers and coaches. Go to school.comthe-elite trainer academy. It's free for life, but you got to get in there before February 1st. After that, you got to pay. This episode is also brought to you by Olipop. This soda is delicious. Yes, I said soda. Yes, we're promoting a soda, but here's why. The entire can has 50 calories, 3 grams of sugar. I'm not making this up. No artificial sweeteners. It's delicious. It's natural. We love it. 50 calories. You want something that tastes good. I'm drinking their cream soda today on the episode, so go to drinkollipop.com mindpump if you buy any two cans of Olipop in any store, they'll pay you back for one. By the way, it works on any flavor, any retailer. Again, it's drinkolipop.com mindpump Buy two cans of Olipop in the store. They'll pay you back for one. We also have a sale on four programs. Four workout programs are half off. Maps, Starter Maps, Transform Maps, anabolic maps, performance 50% off. Go to mapsjanuary.com and use the code newyear50 for the 50% off discount.

[Adam Schaefer]

T shirt time.

[Podcast Host - Announcer]

And it's T shirt time.

[Adam Schaefer]

Ah, shit, Doug. You know it's my favorite time of the week.

[Podcast Host - Announcer]

Two winners this week. None for Apple podcasts, two for Facebook. Sorry. The Facebook winners are Daniel Hampton and Julia Ulla. Both of you are winners. Send the name I just read to itunesindpumpmedia.com include your shirt size and your shipping address and we'll get that shirt.

[Caller or Guest]

Right out to you.

[Sal Di Stefano]

All right, real quick.

[Justin Andrews]

If you love us like we love you, why not show it by rocking one of our shirts, hats, mugs or training gear [e-mail] I'm talking right now. Hit pause, hit head on over to my pumpstore.com. that's it. Enjoy the rest of the show.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Between 2021 and today, GLP1 use has exploded over 600%. You heard that, right? In five years, there's been a 600% increase in the use and prescription of GLP1s. And that number is expected to accelerate and continue to grow. In fact, some experts think that roughly 2/3 of every of all population here in the U.S. 2/3 of America will be on a GLP1 at some point. So what have we learned? We've learned a lot. We're going to talk about that today. What have GLP1s taught us about weight loss, weight gain, body fat, all that stuff? Let's go.

[Adam Schaefer]

I like to see the numbers, like the actual people because I know you've predicted some pretty crazy numbers on what you think. What percentage of people will have tried. I mean, I just, I recently shared on the podcast, well, it went from.

[Sal Di Stefano]

4 million to 32 million in that period of time. Wow, 12 of the u. S. Population right now, nuts. Is on a GLP1. And like I said, they think, they think that 2/3 or maybe 3/4 of the population will at some point.

[Adam Schaefer]

So you're talking 70% huge.

[Justin Andrews]

We knew it was going to take over and have that kind of, well, effect.

[Adam Schaefer]

I, I don't. You guys predicted. I haven't heard you guys comment as, I mean, I brought up recently on the show how taken back I was to be hanging out. I was at a barbecue, a mutual friend of ours and there was what, six of us guys. And you know, these are all. They're not, they weren't, I wouldn't say fitness dudes. They're my buddies that stay in shape. Right. And so, you know, we got older and stuff like that. So everybody's not in the Same shape. We all were in our 20s. But all of them were on a GLP1.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yep.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

And I was just, I was just so surprised that all of them were taking that. And their wives, most of their wives, I think a couple of them didn't. Their wives weren't. But most of them, I mean, I, obviously, I expect that and I, I, we knew that people that really struggled with weight loss and you know, were 100 pounds overweight, like, of course that eventually they'd get their hands on it and that's what was going to happen. And that's, that's a large percentage of people right there. I mean, we're talking about 60% of the population is, is overweight and like, I mean, what are we, 40% is obese.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

So, yeah, yeah. I mean, I figure we got a long ways to go before we, we millions of people before we get to that number. But to see people who I wouldn't put in that category already adopting it.

[Sal Di Stefano]

That's right.

[Adam Schaefer]

Makes me go, wow, that, that's, that's, you know, 70% sounds more realistic.

[Sal Di Stefano]

And there's a couple barriers still. One of the main barriers is you have to inject it.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Di Stefano]

So you inject it. Yes. It's under the skin, small needle. People are still afraid of needles. I know it's once a week, but still people are afraid of needles. You just wait till they come out with a reliable effective. Which by the way, is in the works. It's coming out, I'm sure soon a GLP one that's as effective, that is a pill. So there's a lot of people that simply won't use it because they're afraid of having to inject themselves, but nonetheless is still completely exploding. We also have new generations of GLP1s that are not approved yet that are even more effective than the previous ones.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Di Stefano]

So like you had some aglutide, terzepotide was more effective. Reddit 2 tried was even more effective. That's not even really approved yet. You just have people using gray market, you know, GLP1 that way. So it's just going to continue to accelerate in use.

[Adam Schaefer]

Did the, the episode go live of our live caller that had the transformation, the guy that was in his.

[Sal Di Stefano]

I want to say, I don't know.

[Adam Schaefer]

Did that go live yet? No, that hasn't gone live yet, has it?

[Podcast Host - Announcer]

I think it probably has.

[Sal Di Stefano]

It might be attached to this one.

[Adam Schaefer]

It might be.

[Sal Di Stefano]

It might. Let me, yeah, let me.

[Adam Schaefer]

If it's not, I would love the, the, the, the Listeners to. To be able to. Or viewers to see that. See, before his transformation was, well, so incredible.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Here's what's cool about this is. First of all, GLP1's I talked about how they've exploded in use over the last five years, but they've been around for a long time. So GLP1 medications have been used now for. Doug maybe confirmed this, but I believe it's been like 20 years, if I'm not mistaken. So they're not like this completely new thing. We just had newer ones that were more effective, less side effects, and their popularity exploded. But they've been used. They've been used for diabetes for a long time. Is it 20 years? Yeah, 2005. So they've been out for a while. And now, because we have so many people using them, we're learning a lot about. Well, actually, we're learning a lot about people, and we're learning a lot about what GLP1s actually do, what they don't do. And the first point that I want to bring up, which I read, and I think Mike Matthews wrote a great article on this.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, dude, I'm so glad you're bringing this up.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Very controversial article, but he's 100% accurate.

[Justin Andrews]

He made great points, though.

[Sal Di Stefano]

He made a. I mean, and it's, you know, it's inflammatory. But what he's saying is true, is that all the crap that was out there, all the myths around why or beliefs around why we're so obese, why are we so overweight? Oh, my God. It's our metabolisms. Oh, no, I'm just.

[Justin Andrews]

Genetics.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Genetics. It's a disease. And this and that. It turns out everybody. We're just eating too much.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sal Di Stefano]

It just turns out people were overeating.

[Justin Andrews]

It's what you inherently knew.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah. Because what GLP1s do now, they do much more than this. But the weight loss effects from GLP1s largely come. I mean, most, if not all of the effects come from the fact that you just eat less. You take a GLP1, it's a hormone signal that tells your body it's full. And it's a very powerful signal. If anyone's ever. If you've ever used the GLP one, or you talk to anybody who's used one, they'll tell you someone who overate like crazy before goes on the right dose, and suddenly they're struggling eating food. That's how powerful they are. They're struggling to eat more food. And so, again, it turns out it wasn't all These other things, everybody. Now, that's not to say there aren't other, you know, health issues as a result of the environment, as a result of maybe chemicals that we're exposed to and, you know, all that other stuff. But the weight. We ate too much. How do we know this? Everyone's losing weight because they're eating less. Now everybody's losing weight. So that's. That was the main issue. It's the. Not your genetics. It's not some weird thing that's happened.

[Justin Andrews]

Pretty much killed the health of every size movement.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Oh, gosh.

[Adam Schaefer]

Him and I were going. Him and I were. Him and. Well, that. That was the other thing that he went after was all these influencers that. Because Mike didn't just stop there. Like, Mike went on to go after all these body positivity people that made a huge, you know, fall or built a huge following off of body positivity. Now they're on Ozempic and they lost all this weight. And so it's like, it's. You know, we were all body positivity when we were a certain size, but then now that this drug will help me lose £100, now I'm going to take it, which is kind of flies in the face of that whole movement.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. Turns out completely.

[Sal Di Stefano]

It turns out people are not happy at any size. That's a. That's a myth that being obese and having poor health, which they're closely connected, it doesn't make you happy. It makes you feel terrible. Well, we're given the ability to solve it, albeit through medical intervention. That's effective. You choose it because it doesn't feel naturally. Yeah. Now, I do want to say that people need to be treated with respect and dignity.

[Justin Andrews]

Of course.

[Sal Di Stefano]

People need to be cared for. And obesity just happens to be something you can see versus other issues that we all have challenges. All of us do. Nobody's even close to perfect. But the myth that we used to rail against was just like you said, this false body positive. Like, real body positivity is caring for myself. Fake body positivity is I'm £400 and I'm happy and it's great and I'm healthy.

[Justin Andrews]

Still, you're ignoring all the health concerns.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Right. Which is false.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, the other part that's interesting is, and we've talked about this for a long time, is, which will be interesting to see how this unfolds is that the people that are. That are using this intervention to just cut out the weight to get down, that don't solve the root Cause or the problem, because we've talked about this many times with a client, is a client that is motivated to restrict calories and punish themselves in the gym just to lose all this weight inevitably, almost always puts all the weight back on because what they end up finding out is the same version of themselves. 100 pounds lighter is still just as unhappy. And so you have to get happy first and solve whatever it is that makes you unhappy before you lose a weight. And many times the weight is just a reflection of how unhappy that you are. And that one of the hardest parts as a trainer was, is was getting to that deep of a level with a client. And many times it's such a short period of time because you just, this person just meets you, they and they want help. They got to lose £100. And you know that the weight is just a side effect of something else. They are using food to medicate.

[Sal Di Stefano]

That's right.

[Adam Schaefer]

Whatever thing they have going on inside deep. And if I just. Sure, if I run them every day and starve them or give them a jab that makes them not want to eat, I can get that weight off, but I still don't solve the reason that they got there in the first place.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Now that's not to say that obesity will contribute to feeling worse as well. So losing weight can also help. That's also, we also have to say this, which is, yes, people were eating too much, but it's hard to not eat too much. In fact, that's putting it too lightly. It's super hard. Most people know the negative risks. They know the heart disease risk, they feel it in their bodies, they can't move, they're not happy with all these different things. But yet, and yet majority of people are overweight and a significant percent, almost half, are obese. We live in a world where it's look, food is accessible, it's hyper palatable, it's inexpensive, and it's the easiest way to self medicate. It's an acceptable way to self medicate. And so it's hard. It is hard. But it was that. It was still the food, it was still that you were just eating too much. Here's the other part of it which we're learning, which by the way, good trainers and fitness experts would have told you, but now people are learning this, that just eating less helps, but it's not the fix. And I'm not even talking about what you're talking about, I'm talking about just the physical part, because here's what happens when you just eat Less. And this is what we see with people on GLP1s. 30 to 40% of the weight lost is muscle. What happens when you change none of your physical activity? You're not trying to send a signal to preserve and build muscle and you just radically cut your calories? Well, yeah, you lose fat as your body tries to make up the difference. But then what it does is it learns how to adapt. It adapts to burn less calories because it's trying to meet the new caloric intake. Right. Because otherwise you'll die. If you just eat less than you burn always, you'll die. So your body figures out how to now burn way less calories. And one of the ways it does this is it pares muscle down. In essence, it slows your metabolism down. And so eating less helps, but it's not the fix. And we know this as trainers. Like when somebody would just go on a diet and they'd lose a bunch of weight, they'd lose a bunch of muscle with it. And this is predictable. And you see this with the GLP1 studies just like you would with anybody else who ate less calories.

[Adam Schaefer]

You can also see the market responding. I've been bringing up to you guys almost every day. I'm reading a new article. You know, Starbucks is doing it now. Who's the other one? Someone in our thread just sent over another company that everybody is starting to market protein.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

So like that is like the new.

[Justin Andrews]

Protein menus are coming out.

[Adam Schaefer]

I'm talking about fast food.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Like fast food is now using that as a marketing point for this. They're trying to stay ahead of what you're talking about right now. Because we talk about this. We've been talking about this forever. That the average client that we would get was already grossly under eating protein. That was when they were overeating calories.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Right?

[Adam Schaefer]

When they were overeating calories, many of them were still under eating protein. It was carbs and fats, sugars and stuff like that that they were over consuming. Many times they were low on their protein or barely hitting the essential, like what they needed to do. Not. Definitely not. If they were trying to hold on to muscle mass in a calorie deficit, which all the research points to. You should increase your protein in a sit like that. So now you have these people that take this shot and then they dramatically reduce their calories so the weight comes off, but now they're eating even less protein. And so then what, what, what are you going to have if you, if we actually get to the point where half or two thirds of the people are on this ozymic, everybody's going to be chasing protein. And so now, and you can see the market respond.

[Sal Di Stefano]

You know what this reminds me of? This reminds me of in the. I. Don't you guys remember this? In 80s and 90s, there was this big push for calcium for bone density. Oh, yeah, huge push. Because there was all this awareness around.

[Adam Schaefer]

Milk does a body good came from.

[Sal Di Stefano]

So this huge push for awareness around osteoporosis because you were seeing osteoporosis rates were becoming more aware of them. Maybe rates were rising probably due to our reduced activity. So like, hey, calcium, this is it. You need to take more calcium. It reminds me of that. Because you can bump your protein. It'll help a little bit. It's going to help a little bit. If you don't strength train, that's all you're going to get, though. The strength training has to pair with the protein. So you go too low calorie and you can eat high protein, you're still going to lose a ton of muscle, everybody. It might help a tiny bit, but let's say instead of losing 40% of your weight for muscle, it might be more like 38% or 36%, which is enough to make a difference. It's not that big of a difference, though. So the thing that people need to figure out is, yeah, cool, bump your protein. That's good. You got to send the signal. You got to strength train. If you don't strength train, that muscle's gone. Your body will always get rid of muscle if it doesn't think it needs it and when the calories are low. So this is what people are starting to figure out with the GLP1s is I'm eating less and it's cool, I'm losing weight, but this isn't really fixing everything because I'm losing muscle. I still feel weak. I still don't feel as good as I thought I would. Still got a strength train. You still got to work out. Another thing people are figuring out is you still plateau.

[Justin Andrews]

Yep.

[Sal Di Stefano]

And this, this kind of plateau sucks.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, God. Yeah.

[Sal Di Stefano]

By the way, again, you ask any good trainer, they would have told you this because we see this with clients too. But if you just dramatically cut your calories, even if you work out, but let's say you don't work out, you just cut your calories, eventually your body learns how to burn less calories. Now you've plateaued with a very slow metabolism. So you went from eating 3500 calories a day to eating 1200 calories a day. You lost tons of weight. You still got £25 to lose. Oh, what do I do now? I just up my dose and eat 800 calories. That doesn't seem right. You're still going to plateau. You got to do the strength training, you got to build the muscle, the calorie burning machinery.

[Adam Schaefer]

I'd say of all the points you're bringing up right now, this was the number one thing that we learned when we took the group through one of the, you know, last year.

[Justin Andrews]

Common effect.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. Last year we had to reverse diet, everybody. We, we took on the group of 50 people on GLP1s. The main reason for this was for us to learn. Right. We, we haven't been personal trainers since the introduction. Now we had a lot of theories and points and things that we made, but it's like, okay, what would it be like for us to train?

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

And so we took a group of 50 people so we can get an idea. So give us a really good snapshot of, you know, one, the type of people that are taking this to the challenge that they're having. And the number one thing that we saw, and it was like, oh, wow, all of them at one point hit this hard plateau.

[Sal Di Stefano]

At one point with really low calories.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. There was definitely a large variance. At what point, like Some people lost 30 pounds and then plateaued hard. Some lost 10 pounds and then plateaued. Some lost 75 pounds and plateaued. But you know, they all eventually plateaued and were at this extremely low calorie yet doing all this activity. And they still had further. They wanted to go, and so you.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Got to build muscle.

[Adam Schaefer]

We had to reverse diet, everybody.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah, you have to still get a plateau. So it's important when you're on a GLP one that you strength train properly and hit appropriate optimal protein so that you don't hit that plateau. And if you do plateau, you have to do something called a reverse diet. Which this is going to be interesting to me because reverse dieting is still not a, it's not a well known method or term. You know, if you say it to the average person like, what's a reverse diet? But a reverse diet is you hit a plateau and it's like, okay, now I'm gonna go through a period of increasing my calories and strength training, try and build up my muscle, trying to build up my metabolism.

[Justin Andrews]

Ideally you'd actually do that first. That's right before you even get on the GLP1 so. Because a lot of times the majority of these clients are, they're already at a pretty low to moderate amount of calories that they're intaking and then trying to drop. And it's like, you know, we build you up, we build up your muscle mass. That's the ideal part. So then we can start, you know, scaling it down totally.

[Sal Di Stefano]

And then, you know, lastly, I think this is, this is kind of silver lining. Although I do think JLP1s overall are going to be a benefit is that trainers are more valuable than ever.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh yeah.

[Sal Di Stefano]

And what's interesting too, we never went away.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, this, this complicated the process.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

So trading. It's funny because to the average person, I mean, you can correct me if this is not the direction you're going, but this is what comes to mind to me right away is the, the average person thinks, oh, because these GLP1s now everybody can lose weight real easy.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Nobody needs a trainer.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, it's easy.

[Sal Di Stefano]

A lot of trainers were actually afraid. I know they thought they wouldn't.

[Adam Schaefer]

And I remember this was the argument that we'd make to them is like.

[Justin Andrews]

We do, we got pushed.

[Adam Schaefer]

No, I would make the case that it just got more complicated than ever. Yeah, you got easy to lose weight, but that's, that's not solving the problem, especially when you have. I mean, I love, that's why I love the way Dr. Gabriel Line has been positioning this, which is we do not have a fat problem, we have a under muscled problem. And so if we, if, if we agree that our, our country, more so than being obese, is under muscled and we put them, we put 70% of them on a GLP1 boy, that is going to accelerate that if we do not have the right coaches in place to help these people and guide them through that process. And so I think there's a need and a demand for them more than there ever has been because I don't think it would, I don't think it's easy personally myself, knowing what it was like going through it, coaching people through that process, it. So that's why I was so impressed like when we got that caller called in and said he lost.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Well, he'd been listening to the show.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yes. What we said and then you saw, he saw his before, like, oh my.

[Justin Andrews]

The best out of anybody.

[Adam Schaefer]

And as soon as I saw the picture, I'm like, oh my. Without him, him telling me what he did, I knew he did it right.

[Sal Di Stefano]

He went from over overweight to lean and strong, whereas a lot of people go jacked. They go from fat to skinny fat. Yes. Because they do it the wrong way.

[Podcast Host - Announcer]

He's taller.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Number four. He is on this episode.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, cool. Oh, cool.

[Sal Di Stefano]

So, yeah, paid. So. So stay tuned. But yeah, trainers are very valuable through this process because a, they're going to make sure you don't lose muscle. They're going to monitor the protein and help you with that, which, by the way, is hard to do. First of all, it's hard to do anyway on a GLP1. It's really hard to do. They'll help with supplementation, which I think is more valuable when you're on a GLP1 because some of the challenges that they pose then they can help you scale down and come off the GLP1 so that you could, you know, do this without having to. Because if, I don't know if you guys have seen the studies on GLP1s, but people go off of them and they gain the weight back. They can't maintain the behaviors.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal Di Stefano]

And I. And there's a coaching process that you can go through While on a GLP1 while coming off where you'll dramatically increase your success. We've seen it. We've already seen it with some of our own clients working with our trainers. So trainers are. It's now than ever now for trainers. You now have a tool. This is the most valuable tool I've ever seen for a trainer in my life. I mean, if this is correctly, it's amazing. I mean, macro counters were valuable. Step counters were valuable as a trainer today. GLP1. Holy cow. You got a client really struggles with weight and you coach them the right way, your odds of success have gone through the roof.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, yeah. I mean, I think that one of the hardest things for clients is to cut out that noise. And I think that's one of the strategies. But again, it doesn't end there. Right. You have to work on creating good behaviors that replace which is a process. This is the coaching process because taking it by yourself will cut the noise out. But eventually when you take it come back off, it comes right back. So unless you're signing up for the rest of your life to do it, the average person still will want some sort of coaching through that process. So they create new good behaviors and a new good relationship with food. Otherwise they're gonna end up getting trapped and stuck on the thing. So I just met it crazy to think that you think we're going to 2/3 of. Of the population. I. I mean, I would.

[Sal Di Stefano]

It's not Just going to be.

[Adam Schaefer]

Because I feel like I would have argued before until just that barbecue just recently where I went like, these are not the people who I thought would even be taking it. And so it's not going to be people for sure.

[Sal Di Stefano]

People need to lose £50 for sure. It's going to be people who lose £10.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's what I'm finding most common is people that I wouldn't think should or are considering doing it because it's, it's being promoted as if it's an easy thing.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Like, oh, this is an easy way to lose 10 pounds or an easy way to do that. And so do you see a lot of people that. But oh yeah, you really don't, you don't need that. And it's not. Yeah, it's not, it's not gonna be.

[Justin Andrews]

Use willpower. What are you doing?

[Sal Di Stefano]

Well, I think if you use it right, you develop better behaviors. You cut out these other bad behaviors or you don't engage in them long enough. You know, your neural pathways change and it can make it easier, but there's still a process of coaching that's involved. Otherwise you go out.

[Adam Schaefer]

I would make this. This is again, Back to what Dr. Gabriel line. So when I think about the average person that I know that's in my life that's wanting to take it, it's friends of mine that need to shed like 10 or 15 pounds, maybe 20 at most. And the thing that they need most is actually to increase protein, lift weight, build some muscle, and that will then speed up their metallicity.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Here's what I think. I think they're all going to figure it out. I think people are going to play this game and then everyone's gonna be like, yeah, you still gotta lift weights, you still gotta strength train. Yeah, you still got to do those things.

[Adam Schaefer]

And. And it's hard on a low calorie. Low calorie diet.

[Sal Di Stefano]

That's what I mean.

[Adam Schaefer]

That was the thing that I remember.

[Sal Di Stefano]

You know, they're gonna be like, I have no energy.

[Adam Schaefer]

For the listeners that don't remember that I went through, through this process and I intentionally did it without my trainer brain. Right. Meaning I didn't. I didn't go in.

[Sal Di Stefano]

You did it. One for people know, like Adam went on a GLP1 to test it so he could talk about it.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Di Stefano]

So you went on it and didn't coach yourself like you would.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Di Stefano]

What would the average person do?

[Adam Schaefer]

Right.

[Sal Di Stefano]

They would just not eat.

[Adam Schaefer]

Exactly. And that's what I want. I wanted to experience what that felt like, so I could communicate because I know I have the discipline to be a competitor. I know what it's like to eat cold fish. Like, I could, I can, I can do it. Yeah, I can force myself to eat protein and to do the weights and to do all the things to make sure that I come out with this awesome physique using this, you know, intervention. But I, what I wanted to do was like, what if I was just somebody who took this and I'm trying to lose weight? What were my natural behaviors, my instincts and things like that? And it's like, oh, wow, you forget to eat. You don't have any cravings. You don't even want. Like, food doesn't even taste the same anymore. Like, the things that you love to eat don't even taste like what they used to taste like. You. And then, then you don't do that. So then now you get tired because you're so low calorie. So then you started playing this game. It's like, well, I probably should go lift weights, but man, I'm so tired right now. I should probably help. My help. I remember I had to choose like if I was gonna go and get a little workout in or I was gonna help my wife around the house. And it's like, well, crazy. Yeah, I mean, it was like I'd be like, well, I know the help of my wife out around the house is probably gonna save my marriage more than me getting inside the gym. I'll choose not to do that. And then I would do that thing. So you, you start making these, these decisions like that and it makes it really difficult to maintain muscle. So I'm so impressed when I see somebody who's been able to, to do it and then also lift weights and hit the protein take because it can get real easy to just quite the noise, not eating any food and not do anything.

[Sal Di Stefano]

I think if you're, if you're going to use one of these, find yourself a good coach. I know they're hard to find, but find yourself a good coach who knows how to work with them and then your odds of success are really good. Without a coach. It's gonna be tough. It's gonna be really tough. Speaking of coaches, I want to ask you about our school forum. So explain that for our trainers and coaches that listen to the show.

[Adam Schaefer]

So I'm super excited about this. So for a long time, you know, we've had Facebook as one of our main source of forum. We have the Instagram page that we do for all trainers and coaches and we've just fallen in love with the platform school and S K O O L. Yeah. So and this is a new platform. It's great for forums and it's been around for a little while now. I know that Hermosi and his partner, you, they, you know his partner launched and then he partnered up afterwards with them. So they've been working on it and it's evolving and it's getting better and better and it got recently introduced to us last year and the ability for us to add education, add tiers to it, add videos to it, add folders to it. So it just makes it easier for people to find things that want to learn from us as far as coaches and trainers. And we're adding all kinds of stuff to this right now and building it all out. It's already got lots of valuable stuff. You know one of the most valuable things that we got feedback from our elite trainer academy was the live coaching calls where Sal comes on and works with watches like one of our trainers here. A lot of times when they have a difficult client they'll call Sal in to come and help them navigate that conversation. And so he comes in on the really hard conversations, right. It's not basic stuff, it's difficult ones and he, he. And it's recorded. And so this type of content, a lot of the feedback from our trainers being extremely valuable. So we've literally used that type of stuff and then we've categorized it. Right. So that's like if, if you are working with a client and you have fat loss stuff that you're dealing with or you have someone reverse dieting or you have someone trying to muscle build. So it's really easy for the trainer who's a part of our community to be able to find the resources they want to help them be better coaches. And school just delivers that really well and so. And then there was also going to be like one on one coaching that you'll be able to do with like Ann and our coaches and stuff like that will be other tiers. But the main reason why wanted you to bring it up today is because this is the final three days that you can get in there for free.

[Justin Andrews]

Free.

[Adam Schaefer]

And it's free for life.

[Sal Di Stefano]

If you get in there right after that you pay.

[Adam Schaefer]

After that it's going to be a monthly subscription to have access to all this.

[Sal Di Stefano]

It's free for life. If you go in now.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yes.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh.

[Adam Schaefer]

So if you, if you get in right now you can get into the community for free. Event, not event by February, we're going to charge to have access.

[Sal Di Stefano]

So how do you get in there for people listening? You go, you get the school app and you search up what Mind Pump coaches.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, I'm sure we can have a link. Can we put a link directly to that?

[Podcast Host - Announcer]

Yeah, we can.

[Adam Schaefer]

So you put a link in the, in the show notes, you'll be able to look up Elite Trainer Academy. I think that's what she did we name it, Did Ann name it Elite Trainer Academy or did we?

[Podcast Host - Announcer]

Yes.

[Adam Schaefer]

Okay. So yeah, you look up Elite Trainer Academy Mind Pump, you'll see, you'll see it under there. And if you get in before February 1st, it's free if you don't get in for it. So if you're a coach or a trainer or even aspiring one, and you're not yet, get in there now so that it's, it's free. Going forward, it'll be a monthly membership.

[Justin Andrews]

Any interest there?

[Sal Di Stefano]

For sure.

[Justin Andrews]

This is a great opportunity for you.

[Sal Di Stefano]

All right, I want to ask you guys a question because I think I know what answer you're going to give me because I have a study that just came out. It's really interesting. So what is the widely held belief on when a man's sexual desire peaks? Like what age?

[Adam Schaefer]

Teenage. 16.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Okay, 16. What do you say?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, I would say like 20 maybe.

[Sal Di Stefano]

So I've always heard it's like 18, right? Maybe 20, maybe. You know, that's when your sexual desire peaks. Yeah, it's not true. So they did a huge study, over 67,000. So it's a big study, over 67,000 men. We're 80. And what they find, men's, you know, quote unquote craving or desire for sex was at its highest point when men were in their late 30s, early 40s. Now here's what they find. It's not because it's when you have the most testosterone.

[Adam Schaefer]

Definitely not.

[Sal Di Stefano]

It's not because you have the shortest refractory period. That's when you're 18. Meaning, you know, you could have sex multiple times, all that stuff. Most confident, it's because they've made real. They're realizing that relationship dynamics play a much more significant role than initially anticipated. In other words, stable long term relationships are strongly associated with increased sexual activity and emotional intimacy.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, so you're no more mature relationship.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Well, which is wonderful.

[Adam Schaefer]

That also. Yeah, I was gonna say you. The more, the more you've talked about studies before, like in like the people who report the best sex are people.

[Sal Di Stefano]

That have been in relationship 30 years 20 years.

[Adam Schaefer]

Women hit their peak in their 30s, so a lot of guys probably that are married, been married for years get to get the benefits of that. So I would imagine there's some sort of a feedback loop.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Well, what it is, because that's also. That might also be a myth, Adam. I don't know. That might also be about women's sexual, you know, peak at this. Whatever. I think really what it is, this is a great study is we're constantly told, the world constantly tells us, media, whatever, that it's when you're. You're hottest, Right. It's when you're your teens or your twenties and everything's perfect. And this is when you have. And the truth is, people have the best sex when they've been together or married for a while with the same person. Oh, yeah. And they're connected, which is wonderful to teach and tell, you know, teenagers and kids in their 20s. Because then you hear this and you're like, oh, that's what I should aim for. Because I don't know about you guys, but when I'm 18, 19, in my 20s, or you're trying to date your aims all the time, you're thinking like, oh, it's gonna suck later. Let's just do this now. And whatever. It's like, no, it's like you're in a good relationship for a long time. Same woman, same man, not tons of novelty. You're definitely not your hottest in your early 40s. You can be fit and all that stuff, but you're not.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's not your hottest. I tell our young staff that works for us all the time. That. That was. That was one of the biggest lies that was sold to me.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, at my. My relationship, 16 years now. And I swear to goodness, at 16 years, everything about it on from the sexual point is better today than it was on in the. What they call honeymoon phase early on where they. Where it's supposed to peak. And there's that old saying, if you put a marble inside the jar every time you had sex in your first year of marriage, you'll. And then every year after.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah, every year.

[Adam Schaefer]

That you'll never empty the jar.

[Sal Di Stefano]

That's so full of shit. Such a lie.

[Adam Schaefer]

Such a lie. That's such a lie. The. The frequency, how much all the things, enjoyment, connection. And it makes sense because you are. If you've grown together, most people that have lasted 10 years or more in a marriage, you've. You've probably grown with that person, got more connected, got to know them, got More comfortable and all those things lead to a better sex life. I think the only thing that anything the early years have is, is the novelty thing. And a lot of times the novelty thing never plays out to what you think. It's only exciting because you don't know like, oh, it's oh, I've never slept with this person and you're excited and then you have it and then most time it doesn't live up to what you built in your head. So then if you compare all those exciting, what's it going to be like to what you actually have in this 10 year, 15 year marriage?

[Sal Di Stefano]

Well, what we've done effectively and there's a whole process and people talk about this, all the birth control is part of this process. The you know, the sexification of society is kind of, you know, also done this. But you know, we're, we're led to believe that sex is separate or the act of sex is separate from emotional intimacy and relationship. When in reality it's a side effect or result of. Right. So sex is a result of, or it's supposed to be a result of this intimate relationship. It's not this separate thing, but we've separated it. So it's like one night stands, novelty pornography. It's about hot body, it's about looking young about that stuff. And so it's what we're led to believe it's not.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, there's no real deep connection.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Right. And so meanwhile it's so meanwhile people are like miserable. Like why am I miserable? I mean I'm sleeping around, doing, you know, this isn't, this isn't what I thought it would be.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, I, it was Adam Lane Smith that talked. I remember one of the greatest hacks that he shared with us. There's, there's actually steps that you can take to even improve that in, in your, even a good relationship. And I remember after the, it was one of the first conversations we had with him and I remember applying it in our marriage and going like holy shit, that's a hack. Like because men and women, there's wealth although we're both are involved in the part of us having sex. There's different things that drive motivators for us.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Right.

[Adam Schaefer]

And one of the motivators for the, for men that he talked about was when we set some sort of a goal with your partner. It could be a financial goal, it could be building something, it could be a business related, it could be improving something, learning something. But setting a goal with your partner and going after it and achieving It. The oxytocin and all the. And the vasopressin that happens. The. Oh, my God, like, what it does for the relationship is unbelievable. It's such a mini hack that I learned from him. And sometimes it could be the most simplest thing that we set forth is like, hey, here's our new goal. We're going to try and do this. And going after a small goal like that, working towards it. The sex that. That results in is crazy.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Well, in the past, you guys have heard this before. Like, oh, is your sex life boring? You guys have married a long time. Let's spice it up. How do they. What does spice it up usually mean?

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Doing something, you know, weird or different or bringing another person in the relationship or reality spicing up the sex of your marriage is probably really about working on your relationship.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's exactly what it is.

[Sal Di Stefano]

That's my. That's my new trick.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's my point of bringing that up, is that there's. There's hacks to growing and building the relationship that results in the. The better relationship. And you're right. Normally the. You know, and this is why.

[Justin Andrews]

That's the funny part. Because it's like most things that end relationships, I always found, like, get us even closer in our sex way better. Like, like building a house together.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

You know what I'm saying?

[Adam Schaefer]

Or like, oh, that's exactly right.

[Justin Andrews]

A business.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's because you're accomplishing a goal together.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

And it's. It's been like. It's crazy because we kind of laugh about it because everybody's like, oh, my God, you guys are still married. You know, I'm like, it's actually been better than it's ever been.

[Sal Di Stefano]

It's.

[Justin Andrews]

It's nuts. You know, it's like. It's just because we're on the same page, and I'm just. I got your back. You got my back. You come in here, you do this, you know, and so it's. It's just a very much of, like. I know, like, like a lot about her as a person, a partner. I count on her. And it, like, it just. It.

[Adam Schaefer]

I don't know.

[Justin Andrews]

It's a different level, dude. It's like. That's like goals achieve another level with.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's a hundred. I mean, we. Katrina and I were just talking about this, so it's interesting you went this direction because we just wrapped up Q4 and Q4 for our household. Katrina and I is probably the most stressful time, business wise, because we have a lot. There's a lot that comes to the business head at that time, both on her side of the business and our side of the business. And you know, and the two of us have to figure this out. And there's a lot of that going on behind the scenes. And it's incredibly, what someone else would say, stressful time. But we're both have the same goal in mind because we're working the same business, right? And it's, it results in the most amazing epic sex and time with each other because it, it bonds because of that, because we're like, there is a, there's a for sure desired outcome that we are both aiming for and going after. And yes, there might be some stressful moments during that time, but ultimately it leads to this incredible bonding afterwards or when we finally go, oh, we did it, we did that together. It's so, it's just not like nobody taught me that. Nobody. I mean, I learned that in my 40s listening and talking to Adam Lane Smith. Like, I wish that was something that I learned in my teens and twenties because that's something you could have been fostering in relationships.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Do you see how important is it for young couples to have older couples or people around them as mentors? Because nobody, nobody learned. And yes, you go through seasons like you have little kids, you're obviously not gonna have tons of sex early on when they're little. There's stressful times, all that stuff, I get it. But you know, you're married for years, decades, right? But having older couples where you could talk with them and having. For men, it's so important for men to have a mentor that's older. Imagine having, you know, older guy that's like your buddy or family members like, hey, this is what it's actually like and this is what's actually valuable. And I know you think this is what you know. I know this is what media tells you. That's not true, dude. You know, I think it would have been so helpful.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh my God. Listen, if you're, if you're listening right now and you're in a young marriage, you're in your 20s and you just recently or you, it doesn't matter what age you are, you, but you've been recently married in the last five years and you haven't done this, literally set a goal, set a small goal with your partner. It could be financial, it could be house related, it could be physical, it could be anything, but something that you both agree upon that you're going to work towards. Set it, set it reasonable. Right Set something that, you know that you guys should be able to accomplish and watch what happens. Watch what happens. Just when you both agree on a goal that you're going to go do and you're going to build towards that. So it takes a little bit of time to do that and watch what it does for relationship. It could be reading, it could be financial, it could be all these things. It's such a hack that nobody told me until way later in my life.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Totally, totally. All right, I want to talk about exercise here for a second because it really dawned on me the other day. So my wife came to me and she's like, hey, I want you to help me to be able to perform an overhead squat. I need to work on my shoulder mobility. And I don't know where this came from. It might have been that she was talking with some friends about how she used to do silks and how mobile she was and she doesn't have the same mobility. And it made me realize that we've taken a whole category of exercises that used to be popular and we've made them super unpopular because we've scared people by saying that they're dangerous. And these are all the behind the neck exercises.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal Di Stefano]

And what's happened behind the neck exercises? Yes, they're difficult. Behind the neck pull downs, behind the neck presses, stuff like that. They are difficult, but we've taken them out. So people are doing all the strength training, they're doing those traditional exercises and they're, they're, they're losing that ability or not working on that, that mobility, which is very important antidote though, like to.

[Justin Andrews]

A lot of that everyday positioning stress, you know, in that forward position.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

It's like, why aren't we strengthening and bolding that?

[Sal Di Stefano]

Well, dude, this came to me because I was, I don't remember where I was. I was on Facebook maybe, and there were reels were popping up and they were. It was an old school bodybuilding like, montage and the range of motion those guys had with their flies, with their. And all of them did behind the neck exercises in the, in the 70s and 80s and maybe even the 90s, early 90s, mid 90s, everybody, every bodybuilder did behind the neck pull downs and behind the neck presses. They didn't even get fancy, just. They at least did those exercises. Staples.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Di Stefano]

And their range of motion was incredible. They had great. And I'm like, oh, my God, nobody does these anymore. And they, they just don't have the ability. You take somebody who works out all the time who never does those? They can't do it.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, we, I mean again, this is like our certifications where it just became the standardize based upon people's normal habits and like what you have to actually work through to get good positioning, good posture first. Like they just want to skip right past that. And so we, I, I just think like overall we just, we've done a disservice with that kind of stuff.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, we, we. There's also something else that was going on in the 80s that wasn't going on in the 90s plus. What, like computers and phones?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, yeah, that accelerated that position.

[Adam Schaefer]

It really, I mean, in young people.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

So if young people, like even young people can't.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Behind the neck, they can't normal press.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's what I'm saying.

[Justin Andrews]

Right.

[Adam Schaefer]

And so you, you take a, you know, in 80s and before that wasn't a thing. You didn't sit at a, at a computer all day. You didn't sit on a phone all day. And like, so like if you're a fitness person, you worked out and you did movements like that's pretty normal to be able to pull, but it's so not normal anymore to be even to pull your shoulder blades back and press with your arms in line with your ear or certainly pull a bar down behind your head like that. Like you just.

[Sal Di Stefano]

A lot of it too is just machines. Machines got really popular and everybody just stopped doing those exercises and then everybody started calling them dangerous. In fact, if we do a post, it still happens today.

[Justin Andrews]

Dude, I saw one recently. I think it was even one of our friends. And I was just like, ah, you know, like some exercise they'd eliminate, you know, from the list. And it was bat behind the neck, pull downs.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah, like, no, you get this, you get the humerus to move with the scapula and that retracted position. Yeah, you need to have mobility. So if you've never done it, go real light and practice and go slow and you'll get better at it. And I'll tell you what, man, I get some of the, from a, from a muscle building perspective.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, the benefits of it is this is, I mean, and I, I remember when I went on the mobility kick. So interesting that she's going this direction because I saw huge benefits from, from getting to the place where I could. I don't know if you guys remember, I got, if you go far enough back on my Instagram, you can see me doing overhead squats and working, working towards it. Right. And I had to start really, really light, you Know what I'm saying? I obviously do a lot of broomstick. Yeah. Really, really light to. To start to do it. But what's so cool is that once you gain that connection again and you get it back all to maintain, it is way easier. I mean, that was a. That was my big thing when I worked on the squat. The ankle mobility and the hip mobility. Now all you gotta do is just squat deep and you. And just.

[Justin Andrews]

There's no friction to get there.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, I don't. I don't have, like, the work to get there. Felt like a lot of work. It definitely felt like a lot of work because I had come. I had gone so far, you know, of not doing that. But once I gained it, that's what's so great about doing movements like that, is you don't have to do all these crazy priming movements and corrective work if you just keep certain movements in your repertoire. And if you keep those movements in there, you won't lose that ability. Otherwise, the body prunes. It says there's never going to be a reason for us.

[Sal Di Stefano]

I did behind the neck, pull downs and presses as a kid because I, you know, would follow Arnold and all those guys. And then I remember them, you know, getting my certification. They're dangerous. Don't do it. I stopped doing them for a long time.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Then I saw Mario Marius Pusanowski. Remember him? World's Strongest Man. But he looked like a bodybuilder. So he wasn't even a giant. He was like one of the more ripped guys or whatever. And I saw him doing a workout, and he did an Olympic exercise, which Olympic lifters will do this, where they. They place the bar on their traps like they're doing a squat and they press it and they bring it back down on their traps.

[Adam Schaefer]

I love that.

[Sal Di Stefano]

And I saw him doing it, and I was like, whoa. And I'm like, you know what?

[Justin Andrews]

We did those in football, actually.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Maybe I should practice this. And I did. And it took me a while. Couldn't even do the bar because I couldn't get my shoulders back. And then I was able to. And I got great development. I got great hypertrophy from doing that exercise. So anyway, I just saw this. I just read this article by this researcher who he was trying to tackle. Have you guys have heard the phrase sitting is as bad for you as smoking? Yeah. So he went in and he went in and actually analyzed it and broke it down. And what he said was, it's not sitting, it's sitting without breaks. That's the problem. So he studied indigenous people, people, tribes, where people. Do they sit? Do they still sit? Do they sit down a lot? Do they rest a lot? And in fact, they do. But here's what they do. Every 10 to 15 minutes, they get up.

[Justin Andrews]

They get up.

[Sal Di Stefano]

So he said, if you sit a lot, you'll erase the negative effects. If you just every 15 minutes, stand up and move around a little bit, and then sit back down. Just pop up. Just pop up for 5 seconds, 10 seconds, sit back down.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, I mean, that adds up.

[Sal Di Stefano]

It does, but also just moves the body instead of just being stationary.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, I mean, just that's. If every 15 minutes you made the shoot, I'd make the argument if every person that sits all day long just made the effort to get up every 15 minutes and move a little bit.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Huge. Huge. Maybe Think of that.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Think about people like that. Imagine if they're. Every 15 to 20 minutes, you just stood up.

[Adam Schaefer]

I used to get happy my client would just every hour, do a couple band pull apart or stand up or do something, do a couple air squats. Like, every 15 minutes would be a massive accomplishment.

[Sal Di Stefano]

All you have to do is stand up and sit back down. That's it. Just stand up, Sit back down.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, I remember that. That reminds me of that study. It was in Iowa. The physical education there had got, like. Like high honors because of the fact of, like, they just implemented the entire school. Every class you'd have to get up every 15.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Their grades got better.

[Justin Andrews]

They got way better. Way better performance across the board, in their attitude, their mood, everything. They started adding bands and stuff in. But initially it was just about getting up from sitting too long.

[Sal Di Stefano]

I know. Yeah, I know.

[Adam Schaefer]

My son's school is really good about. They don't. They don't make it like that as much as they do. They just. They have, like, this whole. I want to say there's like seven or eight. I mean, there's like seven or eight, like, station things they do all day long. And they're always. Even. Even at this age. Okay, so he's. He's in kindergarten. Like, each day is a different elective. You know, PE or science or. I forget. Well, each one of them are, but. And they go to different classrooms, so they're. They're also, like, teaching.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Moving around, moving around.

[Adam Schaefer]

They're always. It's never like, just sitting at a desk in the same classroom. Like, there's like, seven different things they do throughout the day, and they're. They're constantly going somewhere, moving somewhere, and activity and yeah, no, it's. They're really, really good about that.

[Sal Di Stefano]

That's so good. Are you doing the cream soda like me? Oh, bro, it is so cream soda.

[Adam Schaefer]

Root beer, and then what's the new one that they just. They just did?

[Sal Di Stefano]

Shirley Temple.

[Adam Schaefer]

Sure. I like the Shirley Temple.

[Justin Andrews]

My kids really like those.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Oh, yeah, you bring them to the boys?

[Adam Schaefer]

They already do regular ones.

[Justin Andrews]

They do them every time I go to a restaurant and they're trying to order a drink, they're like Shirley Temple. So.

[Sal Di Stefano]

So you brought them home?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. I was, like, a little nervous because, you know, it's like. Like it's not as high sugar or not even close, but they both said great taste. So I was stoked. I was like, this is a good option for them.

[Sal Di Stefano]

It trips me out because I'm looking at it right now. So I have the cream soda Olipop for. People aren't watching on camera. 50 calories. It's got how many grams of sugar? Three.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, three.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Three grams of sugar in the whole thing. It's not. No artificial sweeteners in here either, so that my tastes. My thing about it tastes like a soda.

[Adam Schaefer]

My thing that's. I'm excited to have them back is, you know, they. We work with them years ago and we're back again, and I've. I've always had them in my house. So it's whenever I'm trying to cut back on my Diet Coke drinking habit that I know is not good for me. This is or is like my go to. And so it's nice that we have them back here because it's like I have. That's. If I have a habit that I would like to kick or get rid of, it's my. My Diet Coke drinking.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

And Ollie Pop has been able to serve as, like, that segue for me to cut back or get rid of that. And so it's good to have them back.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Speaking of which, how's your training and everything going?

[Adam Schaefer]

Dude, I'm doing pretty good, I'd say.

[Sal Di Stefano]

You change so fast, it's hilarious. I think it's a curse for you.

[Adam Schaefer]

It is. It's a blessing because you lose motivation.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Well, because you're like, I'm good.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, I think that's a good thing. I think I've got a pretty healthy relationship with my body image, which is. Which took me a long time to get to that. So that part is a good thing. But it's the thing. And I. Maybe you've got me to. You've helped me look at it differently because it the same thing that is my strength is my weakness. Like, it comes and goes fast.

[Sal Di Stefano]

So like I just adapt so fast.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, I adapt really quick. Right. And so I've learned to look at that as the positive side. The frustrating side is like I easily like can lose muscle. Like, like my. I have to be stimulating. I've got to be hitting protein high. And yes, yes, my body puts muscle back on pretty quick. It remembers what it had. But if I fall, if I just eat regularly and I don't, like, I've always talked about this. If you've listened long enough, like, I definitely way under eat protein and don't get enough calories. And if I don't stimulate that muscle, it will go, it goes quick. You know, I'm not like some people, like this guy over here who just like keeps muscle on his body all the time here around. Doesn't matter.

[Sal Di Stefano]

He just gets.

[Adam Schaefer]

He gets a little husky. You know what I'm saying? Yes. But I would say, you know, maybe the grass is always green on the side, but I would say so I'd rather have that. I get, I get skinny fat.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh yeah, you get like, like no fat on your waist. Like immediately.

[Adam Schaefer]

I do. It looks, it looks terrible. It looks way worse.

[Sal Di Stefano]

You said waste. I like waste training, dude.

[Justin Andrews]

You guys would have laughed at me though. Over the weekend. I was like, I don't know if you guys ever even do it. You probably don't. But like, you, you look at something like as like a household chore thing outside. I'm like, I'm gonna turn this into a really hard workout on purpose, you know, like, like, so I was, I had this. Not quite that level, but I probably would like that.

[Adam Schaefer]

No, I was just in a mood.

[Justin Andrews]

I was just like, I want to beat the crap out of myself, you know.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Wow.

[Justin Andrews]

Okay, maybe it's just me.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, I was gonna align somebody with you, but not that far. But because I do, I do appreciate.

[Justin Andrews]

The like, like, well, just like back breaking work. I just was craving it because it's a nice day out and I don't know, there's something about it and it was just calling me. And so I have this like big sinkhole in my backyard and I was, I had already filled it before. I've been brought up on the show. Like, I have this like huge pile from the previous owners that didn't. They just left me. They gifted me this like huge amount of like rubble of like cement rubble, you know, from the foundation and everything. And I haven't like, I've been slowly chipping away at getting rid of it, but I just decided, hey, I'm going to put this in the sinkhole, you know, and then try and cover and get. So nobody, you know, falls in there. And I didn't have my wheelbarrow. And this is where I was like, screw it. I'm just going to carry it all the way down. So it was pretty far, dude. It's like at the very top.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Buckets. Put buckets.

[Justin Andrews]

No, I just carried, like, carried it.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Hundreds of pounds of cement.

[Justin Andrews]

Was yelling and throwing it and. And then, like, I found this one. So it used to be, like, some foundation for, like, a little. These have goats and these have, like, this, like, foundation for, like, this little goat house thing. And it was like this huge pylon that was like, probably. It was a couple hundred pounds easy. And I just got it out, unearthed it, and it started rolling down the hill. I was like, no. I tried to stop it. It kept going. Had to let it go. It would, like, smash my fence down the bottom.

[Caller or Guest]

And.

[Justin Andrews]

And I was like, ah, there's no way I'm going to be able to push this back up. And then I just laughed about it and I kind of was come back. I was like, you know what? No, screw that. And I literally just took it and was pushing it up this hill for, like, at least 40 yards or so. Just pushing and grinding and every. Every push I had to, like, put every ounce of, like, when you do a really heavy deadlift, it was like, yeah. And then I got it, like, up.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Like, another couple inches. And then.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, my God. I did that for me two hours.

[Sal Di Stefano]

And I was done for two hours.

[Justin Andrews]

Just crack. Like, I was so tired the whole weekend after that.

[Sal Di Stefano]

What was I thinking?

[Adam Schaefer]

I don't know.

[Sal Di Stefano]

It just. That's the most just happening.

[Adam Schaefer]

I know. I was just like, I can't. I can't relate. I wish you guys would have saw.

[Justin Andrews]

It because it was, like, so ridiculous.

[Sal Di Stefano]

I see a nice day. I don't think I'm gonna do some hard labor, sit down outside.

[Adam Schaefer]

I don't know. I. I. So I can relate to that. Like, there's like, I'll. There's times where it's like, like, it's a nice day. And I have. Let's say I'm. Maybe I'm gonna. I'm not gonna try. I know I'm not gonna train. I'm like, you know what? I should go do some. Something physical and move and so, like. But I'm not. I'm not that inspired while you were doing that. I was doing something really gay. And I haven't. I haven't. I haven't felt this way since I was. I was sending, you know, pictures, serious pictures of my back muscles to Sal when we first met, right? That was the last time I did. I did something.

[Justin Andrews]

I saw that, right?

[Adam Schaefer]

And I remember, like, after that was, like, back and forth. Him and I, like, when we were first, like, talking and stuff like that. I'm like, I'm sending this dude, like, half. So I haven't had that even know.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Hey.

[Adam Schaefer]

I haven't had that feeling until this weekend. I did something and I went like, yeah, after I.

[Sal Di Stefano]

You send me a picture.

[Adam Schaefer]

Hey, after. Yeah, after I did. I was like, yeah, that might have been a little gay.

[Sal Di Stefano]

What'd you do? What'd you do?

[Adam Schaefer]

So Doug and I have been talking, right?

[Justin Andrews]

Okay.

[Adam Schaefer]

So Doug. Doug's like, take a sip. So Doug. Doug and I were talking. You know, he's his. His new place and everything, right? So we talk about remodeling and stuff like that. And so I sent Doug pictures of my laundry room. And I like. I'm like. I'm taking it from all these different angles, like, oh, let's check it out, Doug. And I'm like. And I send it over to him. And after I send it, I'm like, looking at the conversation. I'm like, I'm seeing another man. My laundry room. I'm like, that has to be up there.

[Justin Andrews]

What do you think of this color palette?

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, I'm like, I gotta tell Justin. Yeah, I gotta tell Justin this next time I see him and ask him, is this as gay as when I was sitting sal pictures of myself with no shirt on?

[Sal Di Stefano]

I don't know which one.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's like, I don't.

[Justin Andrews]

Have you ever seen those videos where, like, in the distance you hear this?

[Sal Di Stefano]

Like.

[Adam Schaefer]

It'S like. It was. We were in conversation, and he was talking about moving his laundry room. Oh, I totally did mine, bro. It looks so good. In fact, we just finished it. And I'm like. And I'm like, I'm in it with him. And I'm. And I'm sending all the pictures. And then after I said it.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah, I love that, though. You love that stuff. You love it. My. In fact, my wife, when she does something because she's really good at interior design, she's really. She does a phenomenal job. She'll. Sometimes she'll be done. And she knows that I appreciate it, but she knows Adam appreciates that. Stuff a lot.

[Adam Schaefer]

So some.

[Sal Di Stefano]

I swear to God, she'll tell me. She'll be like, hey, can you take a picture and send it to Adam? Like, no, send a picture to another man to appreciate what you did.

[Justin Andrews]

They have, like, a secret.

[Adam Schaefer]

My wife wants you to see the dining table.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Actually, I swear to God, 100%. She's like, Bro, can you show this? Can you show. Take a picture and send, like, no, I do.

[Adam Schaefer]

I do.

[Sal Di Stefano]

I'm not gonna do that.

[Adam Schaefer]

I do appreciate that stuff. That's the. The feminine side of me, for sure. I like that.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah, man. It was. There was a while there where you couldn't say that something was gay. Now you can. I'm bringing it back. That's part of that was.

[Adam Schaefer]

That was part of me telling that story. It means fun. I mean, I would like. I would like all my gay listeners to answer. Which one was more gay? Me sending pictures of Sal.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah, it's me.

[Adam Schaefer]

City pictures to Sal.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Let us know.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, yeah, let us know. Or sitting Doug. My laundry room.

[Justin Andrews]

Break this down.

[Adam Schaefer]

Because I had that feeling after. I was like, yeah, that probably is a little bit on that side.

[Podcast Host - Announcer]

I feel like it didn't cross my mind.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah, lots, sure.

[Adam Schaefer]

Then why'd you send me a shirtless pic?

[Podcast Host - Announcer]

I was trying to keep that quiet.

[Sal Di Stefano]

He took a p. Hey. He took a picture of his laundry room, but he's in the background shirtless. Yeah, yeah. I said, what do you think?

[Adam Schaefer]

I sent him my laundry room. Just the laundry room. He sent me a picture with his shirt off in his laundry room. I was like, wait a second here.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Washing my underwear.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's not what I was trying to send you guys.

[Sal Di Stefano]

No, no. It's a picture of his laundry, but the. The shadow shows him.

[Justin Andrews]

Impressive.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Ray, what do you think of. My laundry element is an electrolyte powder you add to your water. No artificial sweeteners, no sugar, and it has 1,000 milligrams of sodium. You heard me right. That's the right amount of sodium. By the way, if you're drinking electrolytes, you need the sodium. If you sweat in your workouts, you need the sodium. If you eat a low carb diet, you need the sodium. If you don't eat a lot of processed foods, you'll probably benefit from electrolytes. And yes, it's the sodium. An element is the best, and it tastes the best. Go check them out. Go to drinklmnt.com mindpump on that link. You'll get a free sample pack of their most popular drink. Mix flavors with Any purchase back to the show.

[Podcast Host - Announcer]

Our first caller is James from Texas.

[Sal Di Stefano]

James, what's happening?

[Adam Schaefer]

How you doing?

[Justin Andrews]

James, what's happening?

[Caller or Guest]

Hey guys, thanks for having me back on again. The obligatory I appreciate everything you guys are doing. You guys are changing and disrupting the market and physical fitness and health all over. It's spreading like wildfire. I appreciate everything you guys are doing.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Thanks, man. How can we help you?

[Caller or Guest]

I'm gonna go ahead and just read my email. Keep it easy. I had an opportunity to speak with you about a year ago. At that time, I was doing a lot of traveling and attempting to use anabolic, doing the home version when I was at hotels and doing the gym version when I was home. Since then, my travels significantly decreased, which actually allowed me to complete Anabolic at the gym program. And I just got great results out of it. Started a second time, got about three quarters away through it and started to notice some imbalances and some tweaks. Kind of happens when you get to my age. So I switched over to performance to address those issues. Worked great. I'm not having any issues. It really, really helped me out quite a bit. Throughout the process, my strength continued to increase. My body fat dropped 10 in that total time between those programs. And that was according to that in body scan. I know how accurate those are or not, but consecutively lost body fat. Lately I've been trying to blend elements of like anabolic and performance to create what I what I've kind of called the maps 15 plus style routine. I really enjoy the big lifts. So each day I perform like one lift, like the deadlift or a squat and then follow up with a couple of accessory moves. If I do pull ups, maybe I'll do the dumbbell pullovers or tricep cable push downs. So my concern comes into the sense of these sessions are taking me about, about an hour. I'm taking lots of breaks, lots of rests. So I'm worried and time's not an issue. I got plenty of time in the morning, but I'm wondering, am I doing too much volume? Is it too much stress? You know, the next day I feel a little sore, but I'm not significantly aching or there's no problems with it. I. So I'm wondering if you have any suggestions on program recommendations or something you have that would allow me to continue to prioritize those big lifts, build strength gradually, continue to reduce the fat that I have on me as I turn 55 in October. I just want to be the best version of myself mentally and physically.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah, thanks for calling in.

[Adam Schaefer]

You're doing really good, man. Yeah.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Are you. How long have you been strength training consistently total.

[Caller or Guest]

So I was former military, so that's not really strength training what I did back then. And then I did CrossFit for a while, so I got away from that. So I would probably say maybe good. Three, three and a half, four years I've been since I've been listening to you guys, actually focused on the strength.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Okay. Yeah, I asked that question because sometimes people will create their own programs like you did. And if I'm talking to somebody who's been strength training for 15 years consistently, you know, that's usually okay. If I'm talking to someone who's ex military, CrossFit, probably not a good idea to create your own program because you're going to move in a direction. Oftentimes that's not the right direction or not optimal. Now the other side is this. If you feel good, you're getting good sleep, your joints feel good, you're progressing, then it's probably. It's probably okay. An hour a day. Typically, I would say it's too much, but it depends on the intensity in the person and how you got long rest periods. Yeah. So I wouldn't be too worried about it. Now. If you want to follow one of our programs and see how you feel, you'll know within three or four weeks if it's better. And how you'll know is you just feel better and you're stronger. And so if you like working out every day, we have a lot of maps, 15 programs now that you can try. And like I said, two, three weeks, you would know in two or three weeks you're like, man, I don't see a difference. I like what I was doing before. Go for it. If in two or three weeks you're like, you know what? I feel better. I think I'm stronger. Then go with our programs and then take it from there and I can send you one of them.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Caller or Guest]

And that's. I have 15. And then when 15 performance came out, I have that. My wife uses the 15. I got her the performance to try a little something else. I saw those other ones that were coming out, I'm like, okay, out of those new ones that you just released, what would be better for that kind of desire? I don't know which one would I should gravitate to or give a shot.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Well, you have 15 performance. I like that one to jump in here and there.

[Adam Schaefer]

Strong or power lift?

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah, 15 stronger power lift would be great for You. So I could send you one of those. And like, you'll know in three weeks, James. In three weeks you'll know, like, okay, I was doing too much because you'll. You'll just feel better and stronger. But if it's no difference, and you were like, you know, you like doing what you're doing before you can go, you can.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's what you're at this really interesting stage right now where you've gotten incredible results. Sounds like you're really consistent. The routine that you put together is not bad. That's. I mean, doing a big lift, some accessory movements. To Sal's point. I think, I think following something that we've written is probably going to be more optimal if you want. If you're seeking change.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

But all honesty, there's a lot of times where I go work out and I do things and is it. Is it the most optimal thing I could do to reduce body fat or to build that much, or is it just something I feel like doing today and I like doing it and.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

So, you know, when I'm coaching somebody that's reached kind of where you're at right now, you. You toggle back and forth with that. Sometimes I do things that I know this isn't the perfect routine for me to get the closest to my body fat percentage goal. It's just, you know what, I just feel like doing windmills today because I haven't done it and I want to throw them in there. There's a point. And, and, but yet my foundation, what I like about what you've done is you. You value and you understand the value of these big gross motor movements. And so that's the foundation of your program. And honestly, as long as you keep that and you stick with that, that's going to keep you.

[Sal Di Stefano]

You seem to have a good mentality. Right. I like what Adam's saying. You already went to perform performance because you felt like you were feeling a little imbalanced. But again, on the other side of that, Right. Is workout programming. There's a general idea, but then there's. There's a lot of detail that goes into it that a lot of people just don't understand. So you've got a general idea, gross motor movement, accessory movement, but how they line up actually makes a difference. What follows, what, what is before the other, and then movement patterns and how that works. And then, you know, you have micro cycles, mesocycles, and so I'm making it sound whatever, but I understand all of that makes a big difference. And you don't know what you don't know. That's why I asked you what your exercise history was. If I was Talking to a 55 year old guy who's been strength training for 15 years, 20 years, traditional, it's like, hey, I know my body, I've been training. It's like, okay, I think we're okay. Someone like you, I'm gonna say, look, try what we have. If it works better for you, then you know that this is better for you. But what Adam's saying is also true, man. Like doing it for the sake of doing it because you enjoy it. That's great, man. There's value there.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah. When I came out of the performance section, I hear my friend over here, Justin, always talk about those Turkish get ups. I really got after them for probably about two months and just fell in love with that as well. So it was something completely odd and different and trying to get that. I couldn't ever get the 106 kettlebell above my head, but the 88s, at least I could get one.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's. Hey, that's impressive. Wow, dude, that's impressive.

[Sal Di Stefano]

That's really good.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah, mark that one off my, my list at over 50.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. See that's, that's awesome. And you know, and maybe that's not the, the fastest path to you to get 2% body fat down, but what a great accomplishment. All kinds. I love a movement like Turkish get up because of all the benefits of it. Mobility wise, strength wise, stability wise. So that's, that's, that's the point I'm making right now. And so I love this idea of you've got this. Another way I might look at. If I use we all these 15 programs that we've written, I think you could go through each one of them, follow them the way they are, and then I would include every once in a while, like mobility sessions and mobility movements if I got more time. So you know what you've learned from going through performance, the value. You've probably heard us talk about unilateral stuff, rotational stuff. And so what I think I would do is I would take our, our programming and just be running these different Mass 15s and then I'd be sprinkling in my mobility stuff. Maybe every once in a while I'm adding a Turkish get up that I'm trying to challenge. Kind of like what you're doing, but using the blueprints that we've kind of laid out as, as the.

[Caller or Guest]

Yes.

[Adam Schaefer]

As the foundation, the bulk. And I think you'll get what you're trying to accomplish, which is the best version of you, you know, at 55, feeling good, moving good, stronger, and you'll probably continue to lean out and get in better shape while you do it.

[Sal Di Stefano]

And I think you have a good attitude, James, just by the way you were communicating, how you switch programs and what you're looking for. I think you have good judgment. I don't think you're chasing something so hard that you're going to sacrifice. So that's. So I think you're making. You're having good judgment. So just experiment. And like I said, you'll know. You'll literally know in two or three weeks. You'll know, right? You'll know right away. You'll be like, okay, this is it. Or you'll be like, actually, it's not making a difference.

[Adam Schaefer]

You don't have a. You don't have 15 strong yet, do you?

[Caller or Guest]

I don't have strong or power lift. I just have the regular and performance.

[Adam Schaefer]

Let's send them strong. Obviously, maps strong will be cool for you.

[Sal Di Stefano]

A little bit more variety. Yep.

[Caller or Guest]

Okay.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, we'll send that over to you.

[Caller or Guest]

I appreciate it. And, hey, truth be told, I. I do. I am a coach for one of the big box gyms, so I've changed a lot of the programming that they were doing. Slowly influenced it because some of the stuff they were doing were very orange theoryish, if you can say that. Now. I've gotten more and more from the ground up, switching it to the.

[Sal Di Stefano]

That's great.

[Caller or Guest]

Strength training with little births, you know, 10, 15 minutes of cardio versus the 30 and 40 minutes they have.

[Sal Di Stefano]

James, I wish you shared that earlier. So you train people?

[Caller or Guest]

Yes.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Oh, well, that makes sense.

[Caller or Guest]

I don't. Let me rephrase it. I don't do personal training. I'm doing a class.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Okay.

[Caller or Guest]

Just because of my time with my real job. I do it because I. It's. I.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Okay.

[Caller or Guest]

I love it. I have a passion for. I love seeing people achieve new things that I've achieved through my. My. My life. So I'm trying to pass that down. Everything you give me, I'm. Trust me there. I'm preaching it to the choir out there.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Okay, well, that makes a difference. You got a little metacognition going on. You're actually thinking of programming for other people, which helps yourself, too, so that's good.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Cool. Very cool, dude. Right on, James.

[Caller or Guest]

Hey, thanks, guys. Keep doing the good work.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Thank you, man.

[Caller or Guest]

Godspeed.

[Sal Di Stefano]

You got it. Yeah, there's. He has the right attitude. So I like what you said, Adam, because at the end of the day, it's like, you enjoy it, you're having fun with it. That's the most important thing. You're not hurting yourself. Got a good attitude.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Di Stefano]

If his attitude was like, I gotta get as big as possible, you know, and that, you know, like, okay, well, let's get, you know, some programming so you don't move in a direction that's gonna cause problems. But he's got a good attitude and, you know, for people listening, good strength training program. Of course, you know, your diet's good. Everything else is good. You'll know within a few weeks. I mean, it's not like you gotta, you know, do it forever to figure within a few weeks, you'll feel the difference. You'll see like, oh, I feel good. I don't. I'm not hurting. I'm stronger. My energy's good. And, you know, you're kind of moving in the right direction.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. I mean, he seems really healthy and really mentally, physically, all the things. And so when my client starts to reach this point, you know, we're. We're not always like, the next body fat percentage goal or the next PR goal. Part of this is now like, hey, let's just maintain this for the rest of our life. And what that looks like a lot of times isn't always doing the most optimal workout to get me the most results. I don't train that way. I get on kicks when I'm trying to make movements in certain directions, whether that be strength or performance or body fat percentage. And then maybe my brain's turning a little bit like, okay, these are the most optimal things, and I'm kind of paying attention to volume, but for the most part, it doesn't look like that. For the most part, it's like, take care of the big rocks.

[Justin Andrews]

Just stay interested and consistent.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. And you know what? I feel like doing the most important thing today. And. And I think as long as you're taking care of the big rocks, you're doing the things that. That are going to keep the achy joints away and stuff like that and good mobility. You know, you don't always have to be moving in the. The most optimal way to get you the fastest place to 10.

[Sal Di Stefano]

In fact, that's not a good idea.

[Adam Schaefer]

No, that's right. I think. I think. And so he's at that place where, if he was my client, I'd be really challenging. Where. Where are you at right now? Because my answer is different if you come back to me and you're like, hey, I'm doing this programming and my body and changing and I'm trying to get down 5% and different answers.

[Justin Andrews]

Dial it in, right?

[Adam Schaefer]

That's right, different answer. And we can tweak some things, but it's like, I mean, you're in a good place to play around with the different exercises.

[Podcast Host - Announcer]

Our next caller is Kiara from California.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Hi, Kiara.

[Caller or Guest]

Hi.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Hello. How are you?

[Caller or Guest]

Good.

How are you?

[Sal Di Stefano]

We're good. How can we help you?

[Caller or Guest]

I just want to say thank you for taking the time to answer my question. I found your podcast a few years ago through my boyfriend, now husband, and it's been super helpful in my fitness journey. But I'll go ahead and get to my question if that works. So my question is how to create a healthy, sustainable balance between nutrition and fitness. After a few years of counting macros, completing multiple cuts, including completing 75 parts twice and cutting for my wedding, and finding a balanced workout schedule after currently working out about six to seven days a week, I want to be able to do less but see just as successful results. A little bit more about myself is. I grew up playing sports most of my life. In college, I started going to the gym and did strength training workouts I would find online and continue doing cardio. I started going to hit training classes in 2020. I did my first round of 75 hard September of 2022. At this time I worked with a nutritionist and it was my first time learning about macros and counting macros. I changed my diet, focused on whole foods, protein. I cut out processed foods and sugar and saw the most change ever I had in my body. I got down to about 6% body fat, but mentally it was really hard for me getting back to maintenance. Following this, I stopped the hit classes and started primarily strength training with the addition of pilates about two to three times a month. Month following the first 75 hard, I did a reverse diet, slash bulk and did another cut that summer. The second cut was more balanced because I wasn't following the strict 75 hard rules. I then achieved maintenance and did another round of 75 hard the summer of 2024. Following this, I believe I stayed in a cup for too long as my calories were at about 1700 for around five months in order to prep for my wedding. I then did a reverse diet up to 2100 calories and cut back down to 1600 with with specific macros at carbs of 135, fat of 55 and protein at 140. I went as low as 1500 calories, but my body was not responding well. So then I went back up to 1600. Fast forward. I got married in October of 2025 and felt very good in my body. I was fairly lean and at one of my lowest weights. However, I know this physique is not sustainable long term. As a side note, I had my labs checked multiple points throughout last year and essentially throughout my cut, my thyroid was abnormal. I had my numbers rechecked this last December 2025 after being more relaxed in my diet. After honeymooning and the holidays and surprise, surprise, my numbers were back to baseline. Looking back, I was likely putting my body under too much stress with how I was training and eating. Now I'm trying to find a balance between counting macros versus eating intuitively, working out hard, but not over training. I work as a PA in cardiac surgery and I enjoy being active. I usually get 10 to 12k steps a day. I currently strength train about 5 to 6 times a week at a group training class and we'll do Pilates three to four times a month. I have my current macros at 1800 calories, 150 carbs, 65 fat, 155 of protein. I've done two hierarchs competitions and two half marathons and enjoy having something to train for, but I'm not sure I'll continue to do these competitions. My husband and I hope to start trying for kids soon and I want to model a healthy relationship with food. One where I don't feel the need to measure everything and to stay on track. I love feeling lean and strong and I'm looking for advice on how to maintain that physique in a more flexible, sustainable way than I've done in the past.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah, Kiara, thank you so much for calling in.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Di Stefano]

How would you give me like a short sentence on how you would describe your relationship to your body?

[Caller or Guest]

Oh, that's hard. I think it's something I, like care a lot about and I. I enjoy working out more so too for like the mental aspect where it's just kind of like my hour of the day where I like go there and I don't have to think about anything and it kind of just gets me ready for the day. But I enjoy, I would say I enjoy looking like a certain way and like feeling good about my body.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah. Yeah. How would you, how would you describe the relationship with it though?

[Caller or Guest]

I think it's a positive relationship. Like I usually talk good about myself. I don't feel Like, I have negative feelings. Unless if I get to a certain point where I'm not, like, a certain weight that I want, then I might be a little bit more negative.

[Adam Schaefer]

I'd say it's abusive relationship.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah. Would you mind? Can I give you some, like, some just brevity?

[Caller or Guest]

Sure.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Okay. So what you're saying, I hear the words you're saying, but I'm seeing the way you're treating yourself with fitness, and it's not reflecting the word. The words you're saying don't match with how you're treating yourself.

[Caller or Guest]

Yourself. Okay.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah. So your fitness looks like this. And correct me if I'm wrong, I'm on or I'm off. I'm all in, or I'm not doing it. I'm going crazy, or I'm going off.

[Caller or Guest]

I don't necessarily say that. I think I do respond really well to, like, discipline. Like, 75 heart is almost easy for me because I, like, if I'm, like, given, like, rules or something, I can, like, do it really well. But also, like, again, I do enjoy, like, staying active and working out. But then sometimes I do think I'm just too strict.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah. Do you. You said at the end you want a healthy relationship with this.

[Caller or Guest]

Yes.

[Sal Di Stefano]

So what do you mean you want that? And why don't you have it now?

[Caller or Guest]

That's a good question. I think I'm trying to learn what it looks like where. If I feel good working out six to seven days a week, or, like, if that's what I enjoy. But I think I need to learn how to, like, just do a walk instead of maybe going to the gym and just, like, being okay with that. And I think sometimes because I'm so used to counting macros, if I, like, try to intuitively eat, it's either I don't. I don't get enough food or, like, don't get enough protein, or, like, I just kind of don't have my hunger cues because I'm so used to eating like, oh, these are my macros. This is what I'm eating today.

Yeah.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Do you want a. Do you want a less stressful relationship with all of this?

[Caller or Guest]

I would love that.

[Adam Schaefer]

So your thermometer is way off.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

First of all, okay, your thermometer on what you think it feels good and right is. Is way off.

[Caller or Guest]

Okay.

[Adam Schaefer]

You're way under calorie. You move like crazy. You've got a stressful job. You're attracted to things that are the opposite of what you should be doing for yourself. I'm just going to say it bluntly, Sal is going to be soft.

[Caller or Guest]

No, I appreciate that.

[Adam Schaefer]

And he's going to do all that stuff. I'm going to tell you directly your, your. Your relationship, why I said it's abusive is because you think you're being loving to yourself and you're doing the opposite.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

That you're not taking care. The, the low calorie, the crazy amount of activity, the attraction to high intensity. Working out hard is not a good thing. Your fat is low, your calories are low, your activities that you're choosing are wrong attachments. And if you think that's making you feel good, I'm telling you that your thermometer is off. That's like, these aren't good things. And so we have to reset that thermometer.

[Sal Di Stefano]

We could focus on the actions and I can tell you what to do. But if we don't address what's causing the actions, it's never going to change.

[Caller or Guest]

Okay.

[Sal Di Stefano]

And what's causing the actions we need to be honest about. And so you need to be. Be able to say, okay, why do I beat myself up? Why do I do 75, hard to get into shape? Or why do I go five or six days a week? Or by the way, that feels. Can I just tell you something? When there's something about yourself that you don't like, it does feel good to beat yourself up. It actually feels cathartic. So what feels cathartic are the workouts that make you want to pass out or really restricting yourself because it feels like control. So that's what tends to happen. So there's something deeper here that. Look, I tell you this, we can address this and we can fix this with coaching, but you have to erase this false dichotomy. I think. Here's what you may be thinking, get the body I want, but then it's stressful and controlled and everything is measured. Or I don't get the body I want. In fact, I go way off. But now I'm not as stressed out. I don't have to worry about those things. But that's actually a false. That's not true. That's not real. The body you want is going to come from the right root, which is actually caring for yourself in the right way. But it's going to take some time to get there because this relationship's going on for a long time. Probably since you were playing sports, probably since you were an athlete. How does what I'm saying sound to you?

[Caller or Guest]

No, that makes sense. And I don't disagree with That I think the part where you're saying is, I like, when I. I feel like the only way I've been able to achieve the body that I want is like, these, like, super strict and restrictive regimens, and I want to be able to shift from that and still achieve a body I'm out of.

[Justin Andrews]

Yep, Yep.

[Caller or Guest]

But I just, like, I think that's what I'm trying to navigate is like, what's the plan moving forward where I can, like, stop being so restrictive and, like, stop working out six to seven days a week. But I just don't know what that looks like for me because I haven't done that yet.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yes.

[Justin Andrews]

I think that's something that needs to be painted for you. A vision of what that looks like. A totally different plan. And I think, you know, a coach will really be able to reiterate that and paint that vision for you. I think this is a common thing.

[Adam Schaefer]

With a lot of.

[Justin Andrews]

Especially people that got introduced into weight training and have done it through athletic means. A lot of it is very intense focused. It's, you know, that's the only way you're going to achieve your objective, which I had to literally reverse my way out of that and find a different way to do it, going for longevity sake. So there is another way to do it, and it actually is more effective. The irony of it. So, yeah, you know, really talking to somebody and like, getting that all. All that information and data to absorb, I think will really help.

[Adam Schaefer]

I want to go back to the thermometer thing that I. I said to you. So we. Because this is always like, I've trained lots of clients in. In this situation, and the hardest part to communicate is I'm telling you all the right things, but you feel something different. And it's really hard for you to connect with me and go, I don't give a what he's saying after that workout. I feel good. Because you do. Because you get a cortisol dump and it feels really good. And so it's really tough for to hear. Listen to me. And me going like, no, that's not. That's not right. That's not a good feeling. And you're going like, no, I'm pretty sure that feels really good. I know it feels good. So it's hard for you to listen to the advice of, oh, I want you to do this once you do that, which is against what you feel.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

But you first have to accept that, oh, maybe my thermometer is all off. And I don't know what healthy and right. Feels like this is always the. Whether you and I make it or not. If you're a client of mine and we're going to make this journey together if we're successful, is me being able to get that message through is letting you know that I know how you feel and I know how good it feels, and I know I'm telling you the opposite. And so you got to just trust me that I've done this enough times that I know what I'm doing. And this is where having. To Justin's point, having a coach who you can kind of outsource that to and know that this doesn't feel right. Just I've. I know what good feels like when I'm working out, and this feels weird and awkward and I don't like what I'm seeing. And you're going to go through all those feelings through this process of resetting your thermometer. And. And that. That is the hardest stage, is that kind of awkward stage of the trust and letting go and realizing I have to change my phenomena thermometer. And then comes all these results. Then comes the body. I want the healthy way. We have to accept that part.

[Justin Andrews]

Definitely a way to do it and achieve it.

[Sal Di Stefano]

We could totally get there. Yeah, you're going to get. You can get there. This will happen, and it'll be a remarkable. And you'll feel great. But I'm going to. I'm going to ask you a scary question. You ready? Can you let go of the control?

[Caller or Guest]

Yes.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Can you. Can you let someone else do this for you and you just follow?

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah, I can do that.

[Sal Di Stefano]

All right. I'm gonna have somebody call you because that's what you're gonna need.

[Caller or Guest]

Okay.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Because this is gonna be a process. It's gonna be. It's gonna be a difficult process. Can feel very different than what you've done before. You're gonna have to completely let go and ignore your old patterns, your old relationship to your old feelings. It's gonna be scary as hell.

[Justin Andrews]

Your body's gonna love it, but your mind is gonna have a lot of.

[Sal Di Stefano]

It's gonna. You're gonna rebel. You're gonna want to go against it. Just. Just outsource it, follow it. And then after probably about four, five, six months, you'll start to see the light at the end of the tunnel. Be like, oh, whoa. This is way different. And it's just going to happen. I'm doing way less. I'm eating way more. I feel way better. I feel free. Oh, my God. My body's responding. This doesn't make any sense. I've never gotten in shape doing it this way before. It's always been this crazy struggle, what's happening, and then six months later, you look back and be like, I'm so happy I made that decision, but it's going to take a little while.

[Adam Schaefer]

Your. Your superpower that is going to help you through this whole process is your athletic background, but we just shift it in a different way. So, like, use that.

[Sal Di Stefano]

What your coach tells you.

[Adam Schaefer]

Exactly. That's. So that. That's where, like, good student. What I love about getting an athlete is that if they're coachable, if they were one of those athletes that was very coachable, and then you can try and you trust your coach.

[Sal Di Stefano]

We're gonna.

[Adam Schaefer]

We're gonna win.

[Sal Di Stefano]

We're gonna win.

[Adam Schaefer]

And so if you can lean into that, that, like, allow myself to be coached, trust that process, that it will be your superpower through this. This. This thing. Not. I. I'm gonna figure this out. Or let me go do, like, not the competitive side towards your workouts, but the. Let me listen and, like, that part will be your superpower through this. All right.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah, it's gonna be great. Kara, I'll see you because if you work with one of our coaches, I'll see you and we'll talk about this a little bit. By the way, are you close to us in the Bay Area? Because it says you're in California. Are you far?

[Caller or Guest]

I. County.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Okay, so you're kind of far. No worries. I'll still see you when you're. When you're. When you're meeting virtually with our coaches and you're gonna. You're gonna love this. You just gotta let go a little. You just gotta let go of control for a bit.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Okay.

[Caller or Guest]

Okay.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Caller or Guest]

So for now, just, like, wait to talk to them.

[Adam Schaefer]

They're gonna call you and go through everything. Yeah. Yeah.

[Caller or Guest]

Okay.

[Adam Schaefer]

So.

[Caller or Guest]

Okay. And then I guess just to follow up, because currently my workouts, they're strength training, but it's through, like, a small group class where there's like four to five people.

[Sal Di Stefano]

I can. I can guarantee you. I can guarantee you the coach is gonna tell you to stop doing this.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. Do you have access. Do you have access to a regular gym or.

[Caller or Guest]

I don't currently, because I do the classes, but I can get access. That's fine.

[Sal Di Stefano]

All right, good, good.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, yeah, we're going to.

[Sal Di Stefano]

We're going to shake.

[Justin Andrews]

This would be awesome.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah, you're going to love this.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Caller or Guest]

Okay.

All Right.

[Adam Schaefer]

All right.

[Caller or Guest]

Thank you. I really appreciate it.

[Sal Di Stefano]

You got it, Kara. Thanks for calling in.

[Caller or Guest]

Okay. Thank you.

[Sal Di Stefano]

You know what's both.

[Adam Schaefer]

Does she do it?

[Sal Di Stefano]

What?

[Adam Schaefer]

Does she do it? Come on over under here, coach.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Oh, yeah, she will. Yeah, I think so. Can break. I think she's going to work with a coach. I think our coach is going to have a hell of a time working with her, but I think it's going to be okay because we got really good coaches who know how to work around this. But look, you know, here's the thing. This is what's really challenging. We get on a call and we talk to somebody for 20 minutes. This is not how I would coach somebody like this. This is a long process.

[Adam Schaefer]

I'm not that much of an asshole. I'm not that much of an Session one.

[Sal Di Stefano]

But hold on. I'm going to defend you, Adam. Well, I have to be, because I. Because I tried to get her there, and she immediately put up a wall. Oh, I love it. It's great. It's like, no, that's. No, you don't.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's why I let you go first. I let you go first. And some people come in welcoming and go. I'm like, yeah.

[Sal Di Stefano]

She immediately went up with defenses, and I get that. Look. No, I love it. I love what I do. Well, why are you calling them? Why are you telling us you want a different relationship? Obviously, you don't love it, but now you feel like you need to defend it because what follows this is, I'm going to let go of this. This terrible relationship, this abuse. I got to leave this boyfriend that's abusive, and I can't leave him.

[Adam Schaefer]

I know that's a. That's a harsh analogy, but it's such a good analogy. It's a better to ever talk to somebody that's in an abusive relationship.

[Sal Di Stefano]

It's so scary.

[Adam Schaefer]

They don't want to leave, and many times they don't. They have a hard time even admitting that it's abusive.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Once you get once. Once it gets down to it.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Oh, but I. You know, but they're good. Okay. Well, I don't know. Yeah. So anyway, so that's how I coach people normally, but, I mean, that's just where we had to go. But now we got a coach calling her, and that's why we didn't give her advice here, because I could have said whatever I wanted.

[Adam Schaefer]

No, this isn't. This is too much.

[Sal Di Stefano]

It's not going to help her.

[Adam Schaefer]

This is like, literally, there's like 10 steps in here, this is not hey one let right take some notes. Let me tell you all the things.

[Sal Di Stefano]

She'S going to hate. She hires a coach.

[Justin Andrews]

Let's start with this layer.

[Sal Di Stefano]

She works with one of our coaches. She's going to hate the next 90, you know, three to six months. She's going to hate it but she's going to follow it. And then after that she's going to see the light.

[Justin Andrews]

I mean these, these were, this is where transformation happens.

[Sal Di Stefano]

That's right.

[Adam Schaefer]

These were most my clients. And the hardest part is it's so hard when she knows how she feels from those things because it does feel good. You go crush an orange theory workout, a CrossFit workout, a 75 hard. And that cortisol dump that you get afterwards, that feeling of accomplishment, the energy you feel like bro, you, you try and tell someone that that's wrong and that doesn't feel good and they're like this guy's full of.

[Sal Di Stefano]

It's like telling somebody who's, who drinks alcohol, their anxiety is worse because of it. Like we talk about when I drink my anxiety goes away. It's ah, you know, gets worse later. Trust me, it makes things a lot worse. It's hard to understand but if she, if she follows, she'll figure it out. She'll see.

[Podcast Host - Announcer]

Our next caller is Chelsea from Oregon.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Hi Chelsea.

[Justin Andrews]

Hi Chelsea.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Hi, how are you?

[Caller or Guest]

Good.

How are you guys?

[Adam Schaefer]

Good.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Thanks for calling in. How can we help you?

[Caller or Guest]

So first of all, thank you guys for everything. You know I've been listening for a long time so I'll jump into my question. Here's some background. I'm a 36 year old female and have been lifting consistently for about six years. I grew up overweight and lost a lot of weight over the years and have been able to keep it off for the past five years. I maintained a pretty lean fit physique and I've always been naturally strong. I work construction so I'm very active on top of lifting. In January of last year I injured my knee and had to take a few months off. I lost a noticeable amount of muscle in my legs and since then have been trying to rebuild lower body size and strength. My upper body came back much faster and I started to feel disproportionate. My upper body dominant. I'm more upper body dominant than I'd like to be as a female. I also tend to stay fairly lean without much effort. Even eating around 3,000 calories. I can sit in the mid teens body fat. That made it hard for me Mentally to push calories enough and really commit to regaining leg mass. About a month and a half ago, I made the decision to try a very low dose of Anavar 5mg a day. I only ran it for two weeks. I gained weight quickly and got very strong very fast, which honestly scared me and especially knowing the risk for women. So I stopped after two weeks. Since stopping, it's been a few weeks. Now I'm still getting stronger, but the weight hasn't come off. My current lifts are roughly overhead press 135 squat 255 deadlift 315 bench 155.

[Adam Schaefer]

Damn.

[Caller or Guest]

My square squ. Yeah, I'm pretty strong. Yeah, my squat alone went up 70 pounds in roughly a month.

[Sal Di Stefano]

What?

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah, strength wise. So I used to lift a lot heavier but then I got injured and I lost a lot of strength. Strength wise I feel great, but my joints are starting to ache so I'm wondering if my connective tissue isn't hasn't caught up to how fast my strength increased. At this point I'm unsure of the smartest direction forward. Should I stop pushing load increases for a while and let my joints catch up? Actively deload or back off intensity? Avoid lifting this heavy altogether. Given my age and injury history, I'm also struggling with pro programming. I've ran anabolic a few times. Aesthetic and I just started aesthetic again. I've also started Muscle Mommy performance and Symmetry but didn't finish them. I just felt like it wasn't enough for me. I know everyone, a lot of people say that, but I and I feel like a lot of you guys programs are kind of like biased for upper body and I'd really like more intentional lower body volume right now and hypertrophy while protecting my joints a bit more context. I don't weigh myself, but I'd guess I'm probably around like 175 right now and maybe at 20. Body fat at 5 7. I feel a lot fluffier and more uncomfortable than I'm used to. I'm not tracking calories at the moment, but I've tracked off and on for a lot of years and I'd guess I'm about 22 to 2,500 calories right now. Protein is never an issue. I eat a lot of meat. Carbs are solid fats. I struggle with the most hitting my fats. Sleep is great, eight to eight and a half hours on average. Sometimes more, sometimes less. Right now my stress is a little bit higher lately, which I know could be contributing to fat Retention. I love your thoughts on how to manage rapid strength gains versus joint health. Whether I should pause progression or change training focus, and what programming direction you'd suggest for a female lifter. Rebuilding lower body mass without sacrificing longevity.

[Sal Di Stefano]

This is gonna be a fun question.

[Adam Schaefer]

It is a fun question. Did you watch last year when I did my transformation? Oh, my God, yeah. Did you watch the transformation journey I did on YouTube by a chance?

[Caller or Guest]

I watched a couple, but not all of them.

[Adam Schaefer]

So I bring it up because I made the mistake that you potentially commit. Like, if you had a lot of strength before, and then you're coming back. And so. Which is part of why the strength gains are coming up. I kept pushing that, and I injured myself twice live on camera because I was feeling good, the weight was moving easy, and it was like I. I put up. I.

[Sal Di Stefano]

What?

[Adam Schaefer]

Like 150, 175 pounds on my deadlift in literally a month's time. And as I was feeling so good, so I kept doing it.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah, it's exciting.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. No, it's. But I. And I. I should know better, you know, and of course, I'm. I'm documenting it. So I want to show the greatest muscle gain and progress and, like, an hurt myself. So the. My suggestion to you would be to folk to switch the focus from. I know you want the. To build the quads, and that's kind of where it's at, but I think you. You better be careful, and you got plenty of. Of muscle.

[Sal Di Stefano]

I'm looking at your pictures right now, Chelsea. You're what we would say the 0.1% of genetics when it comes to muscle building, which is great. Now, strength gains are great. We tell people to get stronger all the time because we're not talking to people like you. Because at some point, getting stronger, the risk to reward isn't worth it. So if you gain £30 on your lifts, the difference in the way your body would look wouldn't be that big of a difference, but the risk would be really high. So the question is, all right, well, how do I. How do I change. How do I gain muscle in the places I want to without necessarily adding more weight? So it's a more complicated question. And again, this is a fun question to answer. Now, you only used Anavar for two weeks. Other than that, you've been natural this whole time.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah.

Yeah.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Okay. Yeah. Like, you're the 0.1.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Caller or Guest]

And in those. So those pictures are from May, and I was. I've always been natural before that. So those pictures were Natural, so you.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Don'T need to go on animal.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah, I know, I know.

[Adam Schaefer]

Did you compete? Did you compete or.

[Caller or Guest]

No, no, no.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Oh my God.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. You can get walk ins. You could walk in and win a show.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah. Okay, so here's, so I think the best program for you. Symmetry.

[Justin Andrews]

Symmetry.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah. 100. Yeah, I know.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, you started it.

[Adam Schaefer]

You didn't finish.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Listen, and then here's what you do with the volume. Okay. You want to build by legs. Look great. It's just you build so much. You have, you carry so much muscle.

[Justin Andrews]

Maybe old time strength too.

[Sal Di Stefano]

So. Yeah, so I think symmetry is the program for you. I would only stay in the unilateral phases. And if you want more lower body volume, take some volume off the upper body, add it to the lower body volume. So if it says three sets for upper body, for an exercise, do one set. When you get to legs, add those two sets to your. That's all you gotta do. Swap the volume. Yes, swap up it and add it to. But you gotta live in that for a while. And it's gonna give youit's gonna give you the gains you're looking for without the risk. So you're gonna see the muscle gains happen because it's unilateral and controlled and it's gonna limit how much low down. Exactly. The load's gonna go down, you're gonna get the hypertrophy, especially someone like you, without the risk. And you're gonna feel good, your joints are gonna feel good, but it's not gonna be as fun as loading the barbell and, and being stronger than every dude. And that's not gonna be as fun. But if that's what you want, that's what you got to do.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, you gotta work towards feeling good overall with your body. So it's.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Live in different mentality.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Live in.

[Caller or Guest]

I know I'm getting older and I'm feeling it.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, you're, you're, you're. Very few people we get to talk to are reaching or close to their genetic potential of building muscle hypertrophy. You're, you're there and like Sal's saying, like, you might be able to inch out another 1 to 3%. You know I'm saying. But to, at what to risk what, like, what you're gonna have to push to get like the average person will not be able to tell the difference of that 1 to 3%. Maybe you could a little bit.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Most, most women will just compete in.

[Justin Andrews]

Power lift or something.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Most women will never look like you and never Build, be able to build. You have those kind of genetics. If you live in symmetry for a year. A year? No, no, you gotta live there.

[Adam Schaefer]

Honestly.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal Di Stefano]

You got a lot of muscle. There's a lot of muscle recruitment patterns we have to work on and correct here. So it's going to take a while.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, I love symmetry and I love what Justin suggested, which is like, you need to move in a different direction. Like you. Health wise, if we care about. You're going to get, you're going to maintain a great physique. You have a great physique. It's not like you're going to lose that great physique, get more functional, but you need it. Yeah, you need to start to focus on becoming more functional, more mobility stuff. So it's like programs like old timey performance and symmetry are the programs you should kind of live in for a while and get rid of the fear that you're not going to be jacked.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Here's why I like symmetry. Symmetry is going to give you the hypertrophy gains you're looking for. Okay. And you can swap out the volume and place it more on the lower body. So for every three sets for upper body, take two sets off and add those two sets to your lower body and you'll be happy. Do not do the last phase of symmetry, which is five by five, so you're only doing the unilateral phases. And do it for a whole year and, and you'll, you'll have remarkable changes.

[Adam Schaefer]

Did you, did you, did you quit in the isometric phase? Is that where you said advice? Did you.

[Caller or Guest]

No, I didn't do symmetry for very long at all. I made it, maybe made it like two weeks and that's right.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Caller or Guest]

I want to lift heavy things.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, Yeah. I mean, Sal's giving you a little bit of what you want to hear. I'm gonna still push you more towards Justin because I, I think symmetry is a nice segue of like so you, so you're, we're giving you still a little taste of hypertrophy and kind of what you want, but you really need to move in a different direction. I mean, at this point in stage of your life where you've reached physically, potential wise, if you want to be doing this into your deep, into your 40s and 50s and still have a great healthy. You need to, you need to start to like that way of training a little more. You don't have to love it. It doesn't have to be the cornerstone that it's all you do. But you need to, you need to live in it for long enough every year that you're maintaining that joint health, that rotational strength that good.

[Justin Andrews]

Nothing wrong with being as strong as you are. So the thing is to be able to strengthen and support that.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yes.

[Justin Andrews]

And to strengthen and support that. That's why I would move over towards the old time strength. Because we're addressing things that are deficits in your programming. So you know, it directly addresses it, you load it. You can't overload it because these are all new stimuluses and different positions that you're not used to, not strong in. So it's like you build up your body in these directions. It's going to complement the entire hole.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Here's what I'll say. We'll send you old time strength because you don't have it. Do symmetry for a couple cycles, so you get a little what you want. Because old timey strength, if you started that now, I guarantee you won't want to do it because it's so different. There's not a lot of lower body specific volume in there. So do symmetry for a couple cycles. So. And stick in the, stick in the unilateral phases. Avoid the, the bilateral ones. And then when you're like, okay, I'm ready, do old time and then go back to symmetry and you'll get what you want. You'll totally get what you want. And you won't hurt. You'll feel good.

[Justin Andrews]

The balance.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yep.

[Caller or Guest]

Okay, I think I can do that.

[Sal Di Stefano]

And at some point I want to.

[Adam Schaefer]

Hear back from you in like three to four months.

[Sal Di Stefano]

And at some point if you competed, you would murder it.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, my God. Yeah, that's.

[Adam Schaefer]

But you know what? I don't want to do that. No, don't do that. Because I don't think that's a good idea for somebody that, who's trying, who we're trying to tell you you should move away from being focused.

[Sal Di Stefano]

She would kill it. She would kill it in physique. She would kill it in powerlifting.

[Justin Andrews]

It's like my roommate.

[Adam Schaefer]

This place where you're at. I really think you need to start to try and learn to love some of the mobility stuff. And it doesn't mean you don't go back to hypertrophy. It's just that my normal suggestion to people is like one phase or so, one block. At least three months of every year should live in like a performance or a symmetry type of programming. At least at least three months of the year you should do that going. So learn to start to like that, and incorporate more of that and, and, and then you can get, then you can train hypertrophy like you love, but then go back to that and that will. Will protect you and keep you healthy, keep you strong. Keep the look you want.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Let's have you back on in a few. Let's. Let's have you back on in 90 days after 90 days of unilateral training. Training. I'd love your feedback. All right, we'll do that.

[Caller or Guest]

All right, I'll. I'll start it tomorrow.

[Sal Di Stefano]

All right. All right. All right, Chelsea, thanks for calling in.

[Caller or Guest]

Awesome. Thank you, guys.

[Adam Schaefer]

Bye. Bye. God damn. I don't know if I've seen a. I'm jealous. I don't think I've seen a chick natural that looks like. I would have bet my bottom dollar.

[Sal Di Stefano]

That's not the 1%. That's the 0.1%.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

I don't know if I've seen a natural physique like that ever.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Now, most women could take steroids and they wouldn't look.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, God, no. Yeah, yeah. That's why when she said like, that was like when she first like, said Anavar. I'm like, okay, so she's just taking testosterone then that's. She left out that part.

[Sal Di Stefano]

You know, I'm on B ball normally, but. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

I just dabble with a little bit for two weeks, but I've been on D ball my whole life. Like that she looked crazy. No, no, no, that's.

[Sal Di Stefano]

That's the. By the way, for women watching right now, like when you see the bodybuilder chicks, they have these kind of genetics and then they touch their head.

[Adam Schaefer]

No, 100.

[Sal Di Stefano]

But that's like, that's not, not even 1%. That's the point. That's the 0.1% of those kind of genetics. Those muscle building genetics where you just pack all muscle, but you don't see, this is again, risk versus reward. Pushing strength for her. And bilateral is not a good idea. She could break world records, but she'll hurt herself. But symmetry for her, I think would be great.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's extra dangerous, I think, or at least speaking from experience when you've already been that strong. So it's coming back even faster than.

[Sal Di Stefano]

It was £70 in one month.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, well, that was what happened with my deadlift. My deadlift went over 100 in within four weeks. Now it was, you know, I'm starting at hardly anything. But that progression that fast and not reinforcing it with movements I should be doing.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Leaves you vulnerable.

[Adam Schaefer]

And you know, muscle.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Muscle adapts way faster than connective tissue and tendons. Yeah. Yeah.

[Podcast Host - Announcer]

Our next caller is Warren from California.

[Sal Di Stefano]

What's up, Warren?

[Adam Schaefer]

How you doing, man?

[Caller or Guest]

Hey, guys, how you doing?

[Sal Di Stefano]

Good, man. How can we help you?

[Caller or Guest]

First off, I just want to say thank you for all the time I've listened to your podcast and all the guidance you've given me and just to jump to it. Yeah. My success with what you guys have given over your podcast over the years, really, I've listened to probably hundreds of episodes, has been really life changing. So I'll jump right in. My question is, and it's also just a compliment too, but I've lost £40 over the last year following your program specifically maps Anabolic. And I also did use a GLP one. I was desperate to try something different and I know you guys have talked a lot about that on your show and how effective it is. And I also followed a high protein diet and a daily supplement of creatine. So I've truly am in the best shape of my life right now. I've gone from a size XL in shirts down to a large and now a medium.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Wow.

[Caller or Guest]

Which I never thought I could do. 36 to 34 to 32 in waist. And that's like comfortable. 217 pounds at one point. And I'm now. I went to 170. I'm now like 172. Kind of hanging around in that zone. 54 years of age. And I'm just wondering what's the best way now to maintain these gains, increase my strength if possible and avoid injury as I get older. And if there's any other maps, programs.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Wow, bro. We're looking at your pictures right now.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Wow. Wow. Great job, dude.

[Adam Schaefer]

You know what? And talk about using a GLP1, right? I. I just.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah. You look like you built things.

[Adam Schaefer]

Hell of a job, bro. Hell of a job.

[Podcast Host - Announcer]

Wow.

[Caller or Guest]

So I don't know if all that was underneath and just came out.

[Adam Schaefer]

No, no, no. That's a test. Okay, listen, there lot of people that are going to hear this and want to go jump on a GLP1 and I'm going to tell you, 80% of them will do it wrong. 80 of them will just starve their body and they'll lose a ton of muscle and a ton of.

[Sal Di Stefano]

I know you hate, right? You ate protein, you get your protein, your strength trained, you got stronger.

[Justin Andrews]

Those two things.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah. You did a great job.

[Adam Schaefer]

Crazy, bro. So, okay, how good does this feel right now?

[Caller or Guest]

It feels amazing. Like, I mean, honestly, I walk around and people at the gym tell me, like, wow, you're ripped. And I'm like. Like, I've never heard that in my entire life. So, I mean, I've been. I've been overweight since I was in middle school, like, elementary school. And I even did a weight loss camp back in 1986, and I lost 27 and a half pounds in a month, eating 1200 calories a day. And I know that's not the way to do it, but it showed me that things were possible. But I. But that was unattended. Like, you couldn't maintain that. That was. It was hard.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, you look like you shaved 20 years off your life, too. I mean, you look so much younger, too. It's awesome.

[Caller or Guest]

I feel like it.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, yeah. Sorry.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah. Okay, so here's it. So, all right. The question is, you want to come off the GLP1. How do you maintain all this? Is that the question?

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah. And I've started the taper process.

[Adam Schaefer]

Okay, cool.

[Sal Di Stefano]

So there's a couple ways we can approach this. Okay. You want to do a. What you're doing right. You're doing the right thing by tapering. Just from the people we've talked to, the experts in the field and our experience now with GLP1s, that seems to be the better approach rather than the cold turkey, and suddenly everything, you know, all the cravings come back or whatever. So taper. You want to do a. You want to still be. Have some control with the nutrition. So you still want to track a.

[Justin Andrews]

Little bit still higher in the.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Just so it doesn't. Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Where are you at with calories right now? Just curious.

[Caller or Guest]

I fluctuate pretty much. About 2,500 calories a day is about what I need to maintain. And I think I was down. I don't know what I was, you know, probably around 2000-22 is what my goal was when I was kind of cutting and building. But like you said, for the eating part, like, I had to kind of force feed myself just to make sure I hit those numbers. You guys always say for protein.

[Sal Di Stefano]

So what you want to do, Warren, is a controlled reverse diet. Focus on building. So you want to kind of take advantage of a little bit of the increased hunger. And then there's a bigger kind of picture thing we want to look at, which is you want to really think about how you're going to handle the hunger signals because you have a history of handling them in a particular way. So what you need to do is substitute the old behaviors because what we want to do is just not do the old behavior, but we have nothing to substitute it with. Now, I don't know you, but so you know, you. So you know, you got to think about what are my triggers? When did I overeat? Was it when I was bored? Was it when I was stressed? Was it when I was socializing? So you want to think about that. And then you want to replace old behaviors with new ones, which is going to feel kind of awkward. So you can say, okay, when I'm stressed, hunger is going to come back. I used to eat when I was stressed. Here's what I'm going to do instead. I'm going to journal or I'm going to go for a walk or I'm going to read or something. Okay. So you want to replace those old behaviors with new ones and start to create new behaviors around how you manage the increased hunger.

[Adam Schaefer]

Okay, what was the kryptonite? What was.

[Caller or Guest]

Was late night snacking, for sure.

[Adam Schaefer]

Okay.

[Caller or Guest]

And sugar.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Okay.

[Caller or Guest]

Like, I always was a love sugar. I would, you know, go through a bowl of ice cream or I should say, you know, like a carton.

Right.

[Sal Di Stefano]

How long were you. How long were we on the GLP? 1.

[Caller or Guest]

Just under a year.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Okay. Okay. So good news is the neural networks that were connected to some of those behaviors have weakened. So it's not going to be as bad as it was before, but it can still. You can re. Strengthen them by re. Engaging in those old behaviors.

[Adam Schaefer]

You were just about to say what you replaced it with. So what do you do now? Because, I mean, this is my drink.

[Caller or Guest]

Yogurt at night. Blueberries, Greek yogurt.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's my guy. That's right.

[Caller or Guest]

I listen to everything you guys say.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's me. I mean, literally, that's my kryptonite is ice cream. And I could eat a whole thing sitting down. And if I just make that discipline to do that, that when the cravings come back, it'll still be hard. But if you continue that, and I tell you what, I know this about myself, I flirt with a little bit of it and I go, I could just have it once in a while. And once in a while turns into more often, more often, more often. So if you can just stick to that as your thing as the Greek yogurt and, you know, granola, blueberries, that's kind of what I do at night when I get that craving. I also love using things like Legion or magic spoon cereal. Cereal sometimes gives me that kind of the protein cereal and just I keep Ice cream out of the house. That's, that keeps me in shape, man. That's, that's the difference maker.

[Caller or Guest]

I've got little kids, so it's, well, not little, but the kids that like to snack too.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I mean, and the other thing too is with the GLP1, you can always go back on if you start to feel like you're, you're coming back. And so it doesn't have to be like I'm off, like I'm off. And if I feel like, oh, I'm going to, then I'll get back on for a little while and then restart this whole process. So that's something else to consider.

[Adam Schaefer]

How low of a dose have you got down to? Do you know what the dosage is?

[Caller or Guest]

It's like a fourth. It was up. I mean they do different units and whatnot, but it's basically a fourth of what I peaked out at. And the peak was almost too strong for me. It was super effective. Like it's crazy the first time I took it, like I literally forgot to eat for hours.

[Adam Schaefer]

Like you're just, same story.

[Caller or Guest]

It doesn't even cross your mind.

[Sal Di Stefano]

So. And then here's the other thing too, Warren. If you want, you can, can work with somebody who's going to work you through a controlled reverse diet through this process. And that's just really helpful safeguard, just kind of like, you know, coaching you through this process of coming off the GLP1, doing a reverse diet, moving into not having the GLP1 and a coach could help you that it would probably be a six month process. So if that's something that you'd be open to, I could have someone call you. But again, you have that. You know, we've worked with a lot of people now who've come off and I'd say a significant minority will have to go back on for a short period and kind of restart. It's not a big deal. You just go back on for a few months, then you come back off with a step down process. But your best bet is of course working with someone through it'll be because that's the best thing you want to do is you want to leverage this to a reverse diet. And what'll happen if we do the reverse diet right, Warren, is you're just going to build muscle. You're just going to build muscle now. So you're just going to get strong and build muscle and you're going to stay lean.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, your calorie intake can definitely go up. You can probably get around 3,000. 3,200 calories.

[Caller or Guest]

Really?

[Sal Di Stefano]

Oh, yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, yeah.

[Sal Di Stefano]

And you'll.

[Adam Schaefer]

Not right away. You'll. You'll. You'll inch your way up to that, and then you'll probably hover around a 3,000, 3,200 lean like you are, but you'll probably weigh about 178.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

180, maybe. 180.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah. 10 pounds of lean body.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. That's what you'll. That's what'll happen, you know, especially if you keep it in control.

[Caller or Guest]

I feel like as I get older, too, like, I'll get little shoulder pains or whatever, you know, doing some lifting and whatnot. But.

[Sal Di Stefano]

But that's a programming thing.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, That's. That's to Sal's point, about having a coach. This is the kind of cool part, too, about having a coach is as you communicate this stuff, we would change your programming.

[Justin Andrews]

Weave you through.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, through.

[Sal Di Stefano]

So it's not because you're getting too strong or building too much muscle. It's just a programming issue. It's got to change the program.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. Just a different focus. But, man, hell of a job. Hell of a job, bro.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah, man.

[Caller or Guest]

I think Adam, I think, is your. I'm not sure who's the Z press? Who likes the Z Press? I'm the only guy that does it at the gym, and I really feel like it's. It, like, made my shoulders just pop.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yep.

[Adam Schaefer]

Huge.

[Caller or Guest]

And. And I appreciate that.

[Adam Schaefer]

Like, yeah.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah. If nobody else does it and your guys are saying to do it, I might as well do it.

[Adam Schaefer]

What an inspiration.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Do you want. Do you want one of our coaches to call you to talk to you about scaling this?

[Caller or Guest]

That'd be fine.

[Sal Di Stefano]

All right. I'll have somebody reach out to. Are you local, by the way? Would you be in person or virtual? Are you far from us? We're up in San Jose area.

[Adam Schaefer]

East San Diego.

[Caller or Guest]

I'm down in San Diego.

[Podcast Host - Announcer]

Okay.

[Sal Di Stefano]

All right. So it'll be virtual. That's okay, though. You're already consistent.

[Adam Schaefer]

No, no. I. I hope you join the family, dude. I'd love to. I'd love to see you go through this whole journey. You've done such a great job.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah, great.

[Adam Schaefer]

Before and after, dude. Yeah. Yeah.

[Caller or Guest]

Is there any other maps program you would recommend to, like. Like to make it look better or.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah. So when the coach calls you, whether you work with them or not, I'll inform them to send you the program they think is most ideal, so they'll be able to ask you more questions and Figure it out.

[Caller or Guest]

Yeah.

[Sal Di Stefano]

I would probably recommend symmetry, but we'll see if they. They agree because they're gonna spend some more time with you.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, they can.

[Caller or Guest]

Okay, cool. If you guys ever need a topic for another show, all the younger kids at the gym, you know, on their phones, hogging the equipment, man. It's a. I guess you guys probably don't deal with that because you've got your own.

[Adam Schaefer]

We see it, though, occasionally. Occasionally, though, we go in there and we see it. It's wild.

[Sal Di Stefano]

It's.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Caller or Guest]

The seat to see my thing.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Caller or Guest]

Put the phone in the bag and hit it hard.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Oh, it's ridiculous. The tripods I see in the gym.

[Adam Schaefer]

You're killing it, Warren. See your next three to six months, brother. All right.

[Caller or Guest]

Can't wait to hear the next set of programming. Thank you, gentlemen.

[Sal Di Stefano]

You got it, man. Thank you.

[Caller or Guest]

Been an honor. Thank you very much.

[Sal Di Stefano]

That's the right one.

[Adam Schaefer]

What a. What a cool situation, right? I hope I look like that at 54.

[Sal Di Stefano]

And I know our editors are going to put these before and afters in there, so. What you'll sometimes see with the GLP one is weight loss. And they look smaller, but they're kind of skinny for fat, right? He got leaner.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Di Stefano]

There's a body composition change. Muscular. And he's got muscle.

[Adam Schaefer]

You. You don't even have to. I didn't have to ask him what he did. I knew he did it right. Because that's. I was waiting to see, like, what he looked like from it because lo, using a GLP1 and losing.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Just eat less.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. And just like he said, it wasn't hard to not. He's like, I forgot. I remember when I. When we did that experiment where I did it and we went. That day, I was like, holy. All day. I didn't even remember to eat. I have no appetite at all. So it's not hard to lose weight. What is hard is to get rid of. Get rid of those. Those cravings, not want to eat, but then still the discipline to go after eating fuel to your body and then to train the appropriate amount to where you actually could. Like, what a great, great, great example of how powerful and useful a GLP one. And then it's done properly. So cool.

[Sal Di Stefano]

That's right. Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. We'll see you. It's at mindpump Media.

[Podcast Host - Announcer]

Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and show, shape your body dramatically, improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance. Check out our discounted RGB super [e-mail] the RGB Super Bundle includes Maps, Anabolic Maps, Performance and Maps Aesthetic Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs with detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos. The RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee and you can get it now. Plus other valuable free [e-mail] if you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review on itunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is Mind Pump.