2783: Which Rep Range Is Best for Your Goals?

Summary

Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth

Episode 2783 — "Which Rep Range Is Best for Your Goals?"

Hosts: Sal Di Stefano, Adam Schafer, Justin Andrews, Doug Egge
Release Date: January 30, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into one of the simplest yet most powerfully misunderstood variables in strength training: rep ranges. Sal, Adam, and Justin unpack why manipulating reps—without changing anything else—can dramatically alter your results, how various rep ranges affect muscle growth, strength, and endurance, and strategies for applying new rep ranges to break plateaus. The team also fields practical listener questions and wanders into tangents about public health myths, futuristic robots, and more, all in their trademark raw, playful tone.

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Core Discussion Breakdown

Why Rep Range Is THE Overlooked Key (02:47–06:03)

• Rep range is a "simple but massively overlooked" training variable.

  • Most lifters get stuck in their favorite ranges. Changing just reps can lead to "a crazy response with your body."
  • Adam Schafer (03:54):
    "Even the most experienced lifters suffer from this … You interrupt what you love to do because you know it's beneficial, but then you quickly run right back."

• Changing rep range forces uncomfortable adaptation

  • Justin Andrews (03:54–05:40):
    "I'm trying to do higher reps for my lower body because I just lack the overall stamina … and it sucks… I'm so bad at it because I always play with these low reps."

How Rep Ranges Shape Your Body (09:54–14:45)

• Reps are near-magical in how they alter stimulus:

  • Swapping from 4 reps to 15 reps on the same exercise "is almost a different exercise" (09:54, Justin Andrews).
  • You must stay in the unfamiliar rep range until you adapt: “It can take months” (11:03, Justin Andrews).

• Not all reps are created equal:

  • Working sets and whether you train to failure vary by range.
  • Sal Di Stefano (14:01):
    “All these rep ranges build muscle … novelty plays a big role.”

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Rep Ranges Demystified

1. Low Reps: 1–6 (14:45–21:06)

• Best for: Maximal strength ("power phase"); think powerlifting.

• "You’re training your ability to lift a lot, one time." (14:45, Justin Andrews)

• Requires more sets due to low reps; "powerlifters have figured this out."

• Caveat: Over time, can cause joint stress; lacks strength endurance.

• Notable Example:
  Industrial-sized squats with Stan Efferding, who saw muscle gains when moving to 20 reps (16:26–16:45).

2. Traditional Bodybuilding: 8–12 (21:09–23:15)

• Best for: General hypertrophy; the classic "muscle-building" range.
• Science supports 8–12 for slightly more gain, IF new.
• But: "If you always train in this, almost anything else will build more muscle" (22:08, Adam Schafer).

3. Strength Endurance/High Reps: 15–20 (23:15–26:56)

• Best for: Endurance, massive "pump", and sometimes humility ("ego check" as the bar looks light).
• Endurance athletes benefit from dipping into low-rep strength phases.
• Jack LaLanne, who broke push-up/pull-up records, built his endurance with heavy bench presses and low-rep moves—not endless reps (24:37–26:05).

4. Very High Reps: 25+ (27:39–30:10)

• Best for: Strength endurance, joint recovery, "great hypertrophy" if unfamiliar.
• At a point (over 30), veers into cardio.
• Useful for those always stuck in heavy, low-rep work.

Core Principle:

“The more novel the stimulus, the bigger the potential for growth.”
— Adam Schafer (15:34)

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Programming Wisdom

Stay in a Rep Range Long Enough to Adapt (30:10–32:45)

• Constantly mixing rep ranges ("muscle confusion") halts deep adaptation.

  • Adam Schafer (30:20):
    “You never get good at any one. I wasn’t getting close to what I could build [in] maximal strength and muscle.”

• Adaptation curve:
  The body must learn the movement, then adapt muscle. Don't bail before the deep changes hit.

On Proper Periodization (32:45–39:00)

• Transitioning through focused phases—strength, then hypertrophy, then endurance—unlocks each adaptation.
• "You gotta stay in something until you're good at it" (31:34, Justin Andrews).

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Lightning Round Listener Q&A

Rest Periods (64:56–67:14)

• Q: Do you have to be still during rests?
  • A: Move around, but don't work out between sets. Avoid long static stretches pre-heavy sets—dulls CNS (65:17, Adam Schafer).
  • Pro bodybuilding tip: Use rest periods to sip water, mentally focus.

Building Glutes with Bad Knees (68:07–71:02)

• A: Most often, bad knees are pattern issues. Focus on hip thrusts (easier on knees), unilateral stability work.
• “You don’t have bad knees—you have bad movement patterns. Fix the hips and ankles, and knee pain improves.”
  — Adam Schafer (69:25)

Trigger Sessions—Why Not All at Once? (71:02–72:52)

• A: Spread out "trigger sessions" (light ‘pumping’ with bands) to maximize neural/muscle ‘signals’ for recovery and growth.

Ice Bath vs. Sauna vs. Hot Tub for Recovery/Weight Loss (73:03–78:12)

• A: Both hot and cold are stressors.
  • Ice bath = catecholamine (energy) boost, reduced inflammation, potential for more training tolerance.
  • Sauna = blood flow, potential longevity benefits (more research supports sauna) (74:21, Adam Schafer).
  • Meditation/mindfulness effects are a likely reason for longevity boost:
    "How often do you force yourself to be hyper present?" — Adam Schafer (77:28)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• Adam Schafer (09:20):
  “Even the most experienced lifters, whether they admit it or not, suffer from this…”

• Justin Andrews (09:54):
  “If you always do sets of four reps with squats, and then you go to sets of 15 reps with squats, it's almost a different exercise.”

• Doug (13:39):
  “Don’t ever use 7 or 13 [reps]—what’s up with that?”

• On Habit Change:
  "It takes time for the body to adapt to a specific stimulus. If you don't give it that time, it’s always novel and you don’t let it build maximal adaptation."
  — Adam Schafer (30:11)

• Sal Di Stefano (68:14):
  “Proper strength training within limitations tends to almost always improve the health of your knees.”

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Memorable Tangents (41:10–60:00)

• The team riffs on hygiene in public bathrooms, the spread of bacteria, cultural practices around food and body size, and how abundance may change human behavior.
• Extended speculation on the future impact of humanoid robots on work, family, education, and meaning (43:00–49:59).

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Science/Nutrition Mini-Segments

• Tylenol and Liver Health:
  56,000 ER visits/year from Tylenol, 50% of acute liver failures, 20% of liver transplants (52:50–53:51).
• Probiotics for Health & Performance:
  Recommendation for Seed as the top probiotic based on research on gut health, inflammation, and even possible muscle/fat loss impact (64:15–64:56).

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Practical Takeaways

• For hypertrophy: All strength-related rep ranges can work—switch up your go-to for best results.
• For strength: Prioritize extended, focused periods (1–6 reps, low sets, long rests), but cycle out to higher reps periodically.
• For endurance athletes: Paradoxically, include low-rep strength cycles.
• For recovery: Sauna wins for longevity based on current data; both hot and cold have value as stress/recovery tools.
• For persistent "bad knees": Fix patterns and mobility, don’t just avoid lower-body training.

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[For more information, follow Mind Pump and the team on Instagram @mindpumpmedia, @mindpumpsal, @mindpumpadam, @mindpumpjustin, @mindpumpdoug and at mindpumppodcast.com.]

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Episode Timeline

| Topic | Timestamp (MM:SS) | |--------------------------------------------------------|--------------------------| | Dialogue begins after intro/ads | 02:47 | | Why rep ranges matter/are overlooked | 02:47–06:03 | | Adaption to unfamiliar rep ranges | 06:06–11:25 | | Breaking down the ranges (power/hypertrophy/endurance) | 14:45–28:21 | | Staying long enough to adapt, not "muscle confusion" | 30:10–32:45 | | Listener Q&A: Rest periods | 64:56–67:14 | | Listener Q&A: Bad knees/training glutes | 68:07–71:02 | | Listener Q&A: Trigger sessions | 71:02–72:52 | | Listener Q&A: Sauna vs. ice bath for health/recovery | 73:03–78:12 |

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Summary

This episode robustly debunks rep range dogma—the idea that hypertrophy, strength, or endurance can only be built in certain windows—by showing how physiological novelty trumps sticking to “magic” numbers. The hosts blend technical science, real-world coaching experience, and trademark banter to demystify programming, equip listeners to break plateaus, and offer real-world advice for joint pain, recovery, and even gut health. For anyone who’s ever wondered if they’re “doing enough reps”, or “the right reps”, this is the definitive episode—equal parts myth-busting, actionable guidance, and gym camaraderie.

Transcript

[Adam Schafer]

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[Sal Destefano]

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go.

[Justin Andrews]

Mind Pump Mind Pump with your hosts.

[Sal Destefano]

Sal Destefano, Adam Schafer and Justin Andrews.

[Justin Andrews]

You just found the most downloaded fitness, health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump. In today's episode we answered questions that people wrote in at Mind Pump Media on Instagram. But this was after the intro. Today's intro was 60 minutes long. In the intro we talk about fitness and fat loss and muscle gain, current events, family life. Always a good time. By the way, one more time, if you want to post some questions that we can pick from, go to instagramindpumpmedia now. This episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Zebiotics. This is a pre alcohol drink. It is a probiotic that has been genetically modified. It's unique to break down some of the negative byproducts of alcohol consumption. So you drink it. Then you go drink with your friends or whatever. Enjoy yourself. And guess what? When I do it, I feel way better the next day. Go to zbiotics.com that's zbiotics.com mindpump26 use the code mindpump2.6 get 15% off for first time purchasers. This episode's also brought to you by Huel. They make meal replacement shakes that are vegan that are delicious. Actually the best tasting vegan protein shakes I've ever had. They also have energy drinks. I like that they add theanine to their energy drinks. Gives you much smoother energy without the crash. Great company. Here's by the way, their protein drink's amazing. 35 grams of protein, 27 essential vitamins and minerals. It's a complete meal. There's carbs and fats in there as well. Go check them out. Get a discount. Go to huel.com, that's h u e-l.com mindpump use the code mindpump for an exclusive offer of 15% off. We also have a sale. Four maps workout programs are half off Maps, starter maps transform maps, anabolic and maps performance. Go to maps january.com, use the code newyear50 for the discount. All right, real quick.

[Doug]

If you love us like we love you, why not show up by rocking one of our shirts, hats, mugs, or training gear? [e-mail] I'm talking right now. Hit, pause, hit head on over to my pumpstore.com. that's it.

[Adam Schafer]

Enjoy the rest of the show.

[Justin Andrews]

One of the most simple yet most effective variables you can mess with when it comes to your strength training is reps. It's true. Change up your reps. Very simple. And it can produce amazing results. Most people miss out. They don't know how to do this properly. They don't know what this means. What does it do? Why do I change up my reps? We're going to talk about that today. All the different rep ranges you can mess around with with strength training, what they do and why you should focus on each one.

[Adam Schafer]

Let's go. So the. So the audience knows. You know, many times these fit tips, Justin and I have no idea what they are or anything. Like, literally right before we turn on UC Sal.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Give Doug the notes of what he wants to talk about. And then we just go, but I love. And I. And I typically kicks off with me commenting or asking a question or whatever about it. And then, then there's times when I see the fitness tip right before we get on, and I'm like, oh, I know what this is about. And I can see the way you're walking. So I know that this is close to home right now because you probably mess with some rep ranges right now and you're feeling it and so am I right or it is important?

[Justin Andrews]

Honestly, part of it is as I'm trying to. And just personally, for me, personally, everybody, I think a lot of people are like this, right? You have your favorite rep range. Yeah. And I. I like the really low reps. I like lifting heavy weight. I also like the fact that it's easier for me, maybe because I always do it. In fact, you know, now that I think about it, when people like the high reps and always stay in there when they go low reps, they don't like the way it feels either. Either. I guess so for me, it's like, I just love the low reps and I'm trying to do higher reps for my lower body because I just lack the overall stamina. And. And it sucks. It just totally sucks. Cause I'm so bad at it because I always play with these low reps. But as I was thinking about it, it's like, you know, there's so many variables you can adjust in strength training. One of the strengths of strength training is also one of the biggest challenges, which is the programming. Strength training can be so. There's almost no form of exercise, actually, there's none that I can think of that can be so specific with what kind of adaptation you're trying to accomplish. The part of your body you're trying to train, how you can adapt it to the individual. It's so modifiable. Right. You can modify strength training in incredible ways, from correctional exercise after injury to maximum performance to bodybuilding. I mean, you name it, but there's all these variables. And so people kind of met. They don't know, okay, well, I got sets, I got reps, I got exercises. Putting it together. There's all these different variables, and it's like, you know, what's the one variable that's simple? Because exercises isn't even as simple as this because there's a lot of different exercises. Sets can get a little complicated, I think, sometimes. But if you just took your current workout and changed the reps, everything else stayed the same. You've done a very simple change to your programming that oftentimes elicits a massive response. It's just one thing. You don't have to change anything else. If you just change this from many people listening, you get this crazy response with your body. So I'm like, let's talk about this. Because this could have such a huge impact for someone without much coaching required.

[Doug]

It's just rep rating so simple, but it's massively overlooked.

[Justin Andrews]

Totally.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Because it does really, like, present quite a different stimulus for your body to react to. And it's. It's cool because it's like, you know, one of those variables. You can easily just adjust and, and go through, like, you know, a week to a month and, and really, like, play around with it and see, like, how your body responds to that.

[Adam Schafer]

I, you know, as you were talking, I was trying to think of if I. If I were to put a percentage on the amount of people that I got to coach that just manipulating this made major change.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

And it's. I don't. I couldn't come up with an exact percentage. Hard for me to, like, really try and recall all the times, but I can tell you it was a lot.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, it was significant.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, it was. I. It was prob.

[Doug]

Close to half.

[Adam Schafer]

Peop. And. And I think it's to the point you're saying that even somebody who has experience and they've checked the boxes like, oh, I know the good lifts, you know, I, I, I've got that, that, that part down. I have good mechanics, I have pretty good diet. I think we all are guilty of these tendencies that we have and rep range tends to be the main one, right. I think we, I think we comfortable in that. We, we gravitate to certain exercises and I think we gravitate, you know, rep ranges. Now hopefully if you've done a good job, you've gravitated to some of the best exercises. So at least you're, which would be your case, right. You know, I don't see you out there doing silly stuff low rep, right? You're, you're doing the big movers that are give us your greatest return, but you still have a tendency of doing that. And I'm as guilty on the other side. Like I just, the bodybuilder tendency for me is to superset, chase the pump, get like that. And so I really have to mentally get prepared and go like I need to drop down and do some threes or fives and get in that mindset. And so I think even the most experienced lifters, whether they admit it or not, suffer from this. And even the ones that would disagree and say, oh no, I manipulate rep range. Kind of what it normally looks like is this. It's like you run five by five blocks 90% of the time and then 10% of the time, which looks like you interrupt it for a week or two and then you go right back and you would actually be really well served to do a whole three months and get a lot of benefit from training that way for that long a period of time. But you, you're smart enough or you're, this is me speaking to your, the advanced lifter who kind of understands or does really understand programming. What you do is you interrupt what you love to do because you know it's beneficial for you, but then you quickly run right back. And really what would continue to really benefit you would be to stay in that thing that you typically don't do very long. And you'd probably see a lot of.

[Doug]

Really good, Well, I think too like a lot of it. Like when you switch the rep range, you have to understand the intention with that as well, how that's going to affect your loading, how that's going to affect your mindset going into the workouts. That totally changes too. So you know, for, for like what you're going through with higher reps, it's like, you got to kind of get in that mindset of, like, okay, I'm going to. I'm going to be in a bit of a grind, and I'm going to kind of like, you know, be breathing harder, and this is going to be a totally different feel in the workout, and that's. I'm gonna live in that for a while.

[Adam Schafer]

And to. I think that's such a great point of why I'm like this. You have to do that. You should do that for an extended period of time, because it's not as simple as just, oh, okay, I'm going high rep now. So I just switched my mindset. Like, he's gonna have to build that stamina, which. That takes time to do that and effort to do that. And it's not just one week. One and one week will make improvements, but you're. But the. The spectrum of gains and results that you can. And positive benefits that you'll get working in that for much longer is. Is. Is much greater if you were to stay there.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. Well, this. This variable is a bit misleading because it's so simple. But just to illustrate how big of a difference your rep ranges can make, a. If you did the same exercise, let's say, think barbell squats. And I'm gonna make a pretty controversial statement, but I could back it up. If you always do sets of four reps with squats, and then you go to sets of 15 reps with squats, it's almost a different exercise.

[Doug]

It really is, man.

[Justin Andrews]

That's how profound rep ranges are. It's almost like you did a new exercise, and yet it's this very simple thing. I'm just doing more of the same thing I was doing before, so that's how powerful it is. And then to your point, Adam, when you're training in a new rep range, especially if you love a certain rep range and you tend to live in it, you got to train in that new rep range. Not for a week, not for two weeks. Most people do it for a workout, by the way, not a week. You were pretty. You were pretty generous, Adam. Most people do it once. I'm gonna do this one workout. With high reps, you have to actually do it until you're good at it.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes.

[Justin Andrews]

Which can take months sometimes.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes.

[Justin Andrews]

I know. For me, it's going to probably take three to five months to get good at 15 reps for lower body exercises, because I love the low reps. So I could do a week or two and Then go right back. It's going to take me months. So that's what you need to do is you stay in it until you're like, wow, I'm good at this rep range.

[Doug]

So you can actually adapt.

[Adam Schafer]

Really.

[Justin Andrews]

That's where you're looking for. You're looking for the adaptation that comes from it. And you're. And then the other point you made, Justin, was so true. It's a different feel. Like if you're doing a, an exercise for five reps, it's a grind, but it's a different grind when you do a set of 20. It is. It's like you just have to last. Yeah, it's, it's like, it's like a war of attrition.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Which is different than a heavy.

[Doug]

Yeah, it's a longer fight.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. Which is a heavy grind is more like, I got to move this weight. And pushing higher reps is like, you know, I'm gonna, I think I want to quit now. You have to endure.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

So it's totally different now. The rep ranges we're going to visit are all within rep ranges that would be considered strength training because if you go high enough, you're moving outside of strength training and you're moving now into kind of a cardio, which is okay as well. But in terms of strength training, which. The goal of strength training is ultimately anaerobic to an extent. There's also an aerobic component. So I being a little black and white, but it's to build muscle. It's to build strength or strength, endurance or stability. So once you go too high in the reps, it's kind of like you're on a treadmill. And now you're, you're, you're not really in strength training anymore. And so the. Now I'm going to give you some numbers and you can move outside of this a little bit, depending on person's fitness level. But you're looking at reps between 1 to 25. So that's, that's kind of your strength training rep ranges. And then what we're going to do is we're going to break them down into segments. And yes, we're going to give you hard numbers. There's carryover, so someone's going to argue or whatever. But these rep ranges are, in our experience, the rep ranges that you would kind of break up your workouts into to kind of stay within that will produce kind of different, different types of things. And by the way, your rep ranges can also change or should change the amount of sets you do in your workout as well. So although you can just change rep ranges, as you get into the higher rep ranges, your sets will probably drop. As you get into lower rep ranges, your sets will probably have to increase just as a total volume.

[Doug]

Don't ever use 7 or 13.

[Justin Andrews]

Is that funny? What's up with that? The only odd number is like 15.

[Doug]

You can use 15, but you can't use. Yeah, I always thought that was strange.

[Justin Andrews]

So we'll start with the really low rep ranges one to six. Okay. So one to six. Now, very rarely do people train one or two unless you're a powerlifter.

[Adam Schafer]

So much benefits.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, my God. I'm gonna tell you right now, I'm gonna tell you right now all by the way, all these rep ranges build muscle. So I know people are interested in building. They all build muscle. Okay. You're gonna see studies that say, this one builds more muscle than that one or whatever. I'm gonna tell you right now, I know I'm gonna build more muscle in this higher rep range. As much as I hate it because it's so different. So novelty plays a big role. But they also, they all build muscle. But one to six is really good for this kind of low gear maximal strength. Okay. You're not going to get much endurance torque, you're not going to get much strength endurance out of it. But this is the rep range where you're like, I could lift this. This. I'm training my ability to lift a lot. One time. Yeah. Or two times.

[Doug]

Allocate all your energy and focus into that, you know, moment.

[Justin Andrews]

That's right.

[Adam Schafer]

One of my favorite illustrations, I wish I could give the credit to what national assert it was that I was going through. But one of the national Certs illustrated this really well with a four quadrant box. And it was power, strength, hypertrophy, endurance.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, okay. You know, was that Issa?

[Adam Schafer]

I don't remember. I wish I remember which one.

[Justin Andrews]

But it was.

[Adam Schafer]

It was a four box quadrant. And forever. That's like stuck in my head that whenever I talk about rep ranges to clients, like, that's how I would break it up. Would be like the first one you're talking about right now is power. Then it goes to strength and then it goes to hypertrophy and then it goes endurance. And to your point, how you started this, which is, yes, there's carryover. You get hypertrophy. Like, but that, that way of like, I think illustrating it has always helped me remember teaching that visual.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

And so that's what you're what you're talking about is, is the power phase, right. It's what power lift and it's easy to remember that's what power lifters lift in that phase. So they could get really strong. Huge benefits to, to building muscle and strength and especially if it's novel. I also think it's important as you go through these that one of my favorite strategies for somebody is to move them in the furthest quadrant from where they're currently. So like, and it's not that you won't gain benefits from going from if you're a power person to going strength. You will like the next, the next way. But the more novel the stimulus, the more extreme the other other side. The, the, the, the more room for growth, change, air or stuff that everything that happens. And so I always like to. When I especially with an advanced lifter who has, has been lifting for a long time and looking for an easy hack, it's like, oh, I'm just going to, you know.

[Justin Andrews]

A good example of that was Stan efforting. I don't know if you guys remember.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, it was Flex Wheeler conversation.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. He was a bodybuilder, power lifter and then bodybuilder. And his legs needed to come up in size even though the guy could squat, I don't know, £700. And he trained with Flex Wheeler and Flex is like, yeah, we're doing sets of 20 and dropped the weight way down and then saw all this tremendous leg muscle growth because it was so different from his, you know how he normally trained.

[Adam Schafer]

Right.

[Justin Andrews]

So the feel from the low reps is different. You're not going to get the same pump. You're not going to sweat a lot in your workout. It's going to feel like a grind. It's going to feel like you're getting crushed. The people that tend to shy away from this the most are women. In my experience, women tend to not play with this. Although more and more these days you're seeing them work in these lower ref ranges.

[Doug]

Introduced to it enough.

[Justin Andrews]

This was my, this was my trick. This was like if I got a woman who'd been strength training for a while and she's like, I'm not building muscle. Like almost always was like, cool, we're going to get you strong at three reps.

[Doug]

Right.

[Justin Andrews]

And then boom.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, I, I always love to tell the story of this is what sold me to get on the phone with you about Maps Anabolic.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Because I was at this point in my career that this had. I. So it's so interesting how Parallel our journeys were, we were all apart. Right. Like I felt like at that point in my career I had really hacked into this. It's like, oh, almost every female client I got, I just right away go to like heavy 1 to 5 rep range and would blow their minds because they were so on the opposite end of the spectrum. And so when I saw how you instance, majority of our clientele are middle aged women that are trying to reduce body fat, build muscle, speed up their metabolism, all the things. When I opened up maps anabolic, I was just like, yes, this is like I, I know how dresses it right away. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's a little history for people that don't know that. And that was, that was me pick the phone up and go like, we got to get together totally.

[Justin Andrews]

Now, low reps typically require, by the way, none of these are. We typically don't advise training to total failure, so. But you are training very intensely. So I do want to say that. So you're getting close to failure but not going total failure. When you're doing really low reps, you typically will need to increase your sets. Okay. So if you're doing sets of two or three reps and you traditionally do three sets, you'll probably have to do more like five or six sets just because the reps are so low. And you see this with powerlifting training, low rep training, programming, if you want to find good programming around this. Not that you have to train exactly like a powerlifter, but powerlifters have figured out low rep training and so when you look at their workouts, they tend to do few exercises, lots of sets of each exercise. And that generally is how programming looks around this. Nonetheless, if all you did, if you're always around 15 reps and all you did was suddenly go down to five reps on everything, you're going to see incredible changes even if you change nothing else.

[Adam Schafer]

I think one of the, one of the values of, aside from the volume that's involved of increasing the sets in this situation, right. To kind of match with the volume you were doing before. When you're going, when you've, when you've never really trained low reps, one of the hardest thing is actually finding the weight. The weight.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

And so everybody's so scared. I always love doing five, six, seven sets of, you know, squats or deadlifts, but really the first two or three is like finding my, my working weight.

[Justin Andrews]

That's right. Good point.

[Adam Schafer]

And so because it's partly warming me up, priming, getting my technique down the next set is like, okay, how am I feeling today? Third set is like, okay, I think this is probably where I should land now. I got two to three working sets, and really I've done a total of five to six sets. But those first two or three many times are figuring out what a heavy one, because when you are working with a load that's that heavy, where it's one to five, the difference, like, there's times when I would come in, this is back when I'm. I'm loading the bar a lot and you know, it's a heavy day and. But heavy might be only 3:15 today. But then other days when I was feeling great, it was 405, you know what I'm saying? So it's like, that's a huge range. And so I find the first couple of sets, a lot of time is figuring that out, right? Feeling my body out, feeling like, what is going to be that, that, that weight. I'm going to choose that I'm going to do two or three working sets at a weight that my body go, okay, this is right there. I could do two more reps maybe, but this is. This is it.

[Justin Andrews]

Good point. The, I guess the downside of this rep range is just lack of strength endurance. If you always train in the slow rep, beside the fact that your body will stop responding after time and you start to feel, you know, nagging joint pain from playing with heavy weight too often, you still have good strength endurance. And you'll find this. Like suddenly you go to 10 reps and it's like, I'm not doing a little less weight. I have to do way less weight because this is what I'm experiencing.

[Doug]

It's a bit harder in the joints after a long period of time if.

[Justin Andrews]

You push it too hard. Right next, next rep range we'll jump to is 8 to 12. This is what they would call the bodybuilder rep range or hypertrophy. I don't like that. We refer to this as hypertrophy not because it doesn't build muscle, but because it insinuates that the other rep ranges don't.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

So when you look at the studies, and the Studies typically are three months long, two months long, and they compare rep ranges head to head. 8 to 12 tends to build more muscle, and it's not a ton, it's a little bit more muscle. But again, you're only looking at, you know, three months. What you're not looking at is over a course of two years or three years if you always train in this rep range versus bouncing around with some strategy, moving around is going to build the most muscle. So it insinuates that this is the muscle building range. Anything outside of this doesn't build muscle. Not true. Again, going back to the female clients I had, you know, who wanted to build their butt, who always played in the higher reps. As soon as I brought them down to three, you know, sets of three, all of a sudden their butt grew faster than they had experienced.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, this is, in my opinion, one of the most flawed studies that we tend to repeat constantly. And, and for that reason is that you're taking a baseline of people that are all at the same place in their, their fitness journey. And if you put them all head to head for three months or six months, however long the study was, I can't remember. And you train in those phases like you said? Yeah, you'll see a slight bit more in the 8 to 12 rep range. But that's not how reality is. Like I've never taken, I've never taken 10 clients on and all 10 of them were at the same part of their journey. And so if somebody that I take on has already heard about 8 to 12 reps builds good muscle. And so that's typically what they train in. The best thing they could possibly do is not train in that to build muscle, like almost anything else will build more muscle than staying in that, because that's what they always tend to train in. And I, people don't wrap their brain around that. I can't tell you how many times I've taken somebody on that identifies with somebody who wants to build muscle or hypertrophy. And so they always train in that. It's just like, oh, well, if you always train in that, we're going to see tremendous benefits going north or south of that totally just by training that way.

[Justin Andrews]

Now with the 8 to 12, you'll still get good strength. You'll also get some good stability and you'll get some good, some strength endurance. Then we move to the higher rep ranges, 15 to 20, 15 to 20, we're getting more strength endurance. This is where you'll get, probably some of the best pumps that you'll, you'll get will be in this rep range. It could be a bit exhausting if you're not used to it, but it's still a great rep range to work in and it's still cons, it's still a muscle building rep range and guys tend to shy away from this rep range. This is where you See, a lot of dudes, once you get above 50, especially around 20, they're like, I'm not doing that. Part of the reason is probably because the bar doesn't look impressive. Like, you start.

[Doug]

Yeah, really it is. That's what it amounts to is the amount of weight you really have to drop substantially financially. And that's an ego check.

[Justin Andrews]

100.

[Adam Schafer]

So I would, I would say guys, so long as you're not. Because there's a lot of guys that I think are into endurance, calisthenic type of training and they tend to go that way. Like if you, if you were like.

[Justin Andrews]

The guys that don't care about the weight on the bar.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That are more, more into. Because there's, I mean, there's a whole movement on online of like the calisthenic guys and stuff, which are all doing crazy high rep and super settings and circuits and doing that stuff like that. So if you're, if you're the guy that's into all that stuff, then I've had to move you out of that.

[Justin Andrews]

Which again, when we get to the rep ranges that are like strength endurance, this insinuates again that the other rep ranges won't contribute to strength endurance. That's actually not true. In fact, when I've had endurance athletes train with me and hire me, first of all, when they did strength training on their own, they always did super high reps because that's what they thought they had to do. These are triathletes endurance, you know, long distance runner cyclists. They'd hire me and they say, oh yeah, I do strength training. And they're always in the 20 rep range. And I'm like, well, why are you always in the 20? Well, because I need endurance. And you know what gave them the most gains in endurance in their sport? Going down to three reps. Yeah, yeah. It's funny. Jack lalanne, because he gets stronger. Jack lalanne, who held the world record for push ups and pull ups in a session was like a thousand, which this record lasted for 40 years or something like that was insane. When they interviewed him and they said, what was your secret? How were you able to do a thousand of push ups and pull ups? And he said heavy bench presses and weighted pull ups. That was his secret. His secret was instead of doing a thousand reps all the time, he did some heavy bench presses for five reps and he saw these huge gains. Why? Because when you're stronger, it contributes to all that other stuff. So again, it insinuates that this is the only way you build endurance. And yes, if you look at your year worth of training, majority of the time you're going to be in this. But if you're always here and you did two months of heavy training and then went back to your high rep, you would find yourself suddenly having new.

[Adam Schafer]

I'm glad you pointed. That's what I was trying to articulate was you have, you know, soccer players at these athletes that want endurance do actually tend to go in this rep range because they're thinking, oh, this translates the most to my sport.

[Justin Andrews]

Right.

[Adam Schafer]

And so this is how I always lift weights also is like this. Short rest periods, high repetitions, and it's just like, oh, you'll get tremendous gains if we go this way.

[Justin Andrews]

In fact, oftentimes, because I'll be careful with what I'm saying here because I don't want to insinuate what I'm not trying to say, but oftentimes when I'm training an endurance athlete, because they do so much training outside of the weight room, so much cycling and swimming and running or whatever, that high reps is also just too taxing. And so the sets of three just doesn't fatigue their body as much. And it actually became oftentimes a very appropriate way to train.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

So in other words, high reps, oftentimes you got to reduce the sets. Three sets of barbell squats at 20 reps is going to be way more taxing on your body than three sets of three reps, even if the weight is super heavy of squats. So oftentimes you bump up the reps, you got to drop down the sets to accommodate for the increased volume. Just a little side.

[Doug]

Well, also, I mean, athletics, it's so dynamic. There's so many different, like, characteristics you need to be able to pull from. And so if you're not training your body to neuromuscularly recruit on demand, that's, that's a power, that's, that's strength, you know, and so if you don't have that access that gear and you're not training that, you know, and you're just focusing on the endurance portion, you're limiting yourself totally 100.

[Justin Andrews]

And then we get to the super high reps 25 plus also. And typically you'll end around 30. Once you get above 30, give or take, then it starts to become more cardio. Yeah. But then you get the really high reps and now you're really working strength, endurance. And this is like for somebody that lives in the really, really low rep ranges you, you do a good month or 2 of 25 reps and you start to get first off, it gives your joints a break, you feel healthy, and you actually get great hypertrophy. This is again referring back to Stan Efforting. This is what he did with Flex Wheeler. Yeah. Where he was doing 20, 25 reps in sets, and he got this incredible.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, believe it or not, too. You get great cardiovascular benefits for someone like you, right?

[Justin Andrews]

Yes.

[Adam Schafer]

So, like, one of the cool things.

[Justin Andrews]

If you hate cardio, right?

[Adam Schafer]

Like, yeah. One of the great things about this is what we used to always make this argument because, you know, people, so many people want to jump on the cardio equipment to get in good shape, and we're always making the case that that's not the best strategy. Yes, I understand how good it's for your heart, but have you ever tried sets of 20 or 25 squats?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

And watch what that does for the heart.

[Justin Andrews]

Screaming.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Especially if you train in the low rep range. You train a whole, you know, cycle of training in the 20, 20, 25 rep range, and you're doing some of these big movements. Watch how much cardio endurance you get from it. Now, you may not be ready to go run a marathon from that, but I guarantee that, that the, you will feel the carryover from that endurance that you get from that training. You know, since you're talking about all this stuff too, the other person that we have to address that, I, Because I was this person, I feel like. So there's. I can't be the only one was the. I do it all.

[Justin Andrews]

All the time.

[Adam Schafer]

All the time.

[Justin Andrews]

You don't ever get good at one.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes. And that was a, that was a big mistake. So I understood all these things that we just talked about. And so my philosophy was, I do it all, all, all the time. And I every. In fact, I never had a workout. That was my. I used to say this, like, every workout I do never looks like the last one. It's like every workout is unique, you know, like, it was like muscle confusion. Yeah, that was the, that was the philosophy that I operated from with my programming back in my 20s was this. I'm addressing all these things. I'm. I'm making sure I get all those rep ranges, so I get all the benefits of it. But you, you have to talk about how important it is to stay not only from the mindset because each rep range requires that, but also the adaptation process.

[Justin Andrews]

That's right.

[Adam Schafer]

You know, it, it takes time for the body to adapt to a Specific stimulus. And if you don't give it that time then it is constantly just kind of, it's all, all novel all the time. It's always confusing the body and you're not getting, you're not letting it get adapted to then build mat. And, and that was a big unlock for me because yes, I was in shape. So like that type of training kept me moving, kept me burning calories, kept me from putting a lot of body fat on. I was mobile, I could do multi directional, but I didn't, I wasn't getting close to what I could build maximal strength and muscle. And the unlock for me was realizing, oh my God, I need to stay in a, I need to stay in one of these phases and, and focus all my workout on that and then move from that.

[Justin Andrews]

There's an adaptation curve, right? So you take somebody who's never barbell squatted before. Like we can't train a barbell. Squat hard until you're good at it. Like I can't just take you and really elicit great adaptations muscle building wise until you can squat right. Initially the adaptations are just your central nervous system is learning how to do it and you're balancing and you're figuring out the movement, which is great. Shaky, which is great. You're getting stronger through neuromuscular adaptation. This, the data shows the initial adaptation of strength comes from neuromuscular adaptation before you get the hypertrophy. So it takes time. You got to stay in something until you're good at it, not just throw it around.

[Adam Schafer]

I'm so glad you went that direction because it was literally the squat and the deadlift that taught me this lesson was because I didn't not ever squat or deadlift. But it's like again, back to my point, never, no work at ever the same. So it's like I squatted this month, you know, and then it went to Bulgarians and lunges and single leg presses and jump bot and like I did all these other things for the entire month. I didn't revisit that squat again until another month, you know, and then I revisit and then I, and I wasn't very good at it still. You know, I never, I never got good at it until it was like, okay, I'm just going to do this one thing in this rep range until I get really good at it. And oh my God, the gains that came from, from, from getting really good at squatting and staying focused on a reprice. It was the squat and deadlift that really taught me that because up until that point, I had never focused for an extended period of time because again, I didn't identify as a powerlifter. I wasn't trying to be this the strongest guy in the gym or go to a meet. I didn't care. I didn't care what my PR was, but I did care about building my physique. And I wanted, I did want the. If someone came to me and said, do you want to build more muscle? I would have said yes. And so I had no idea that that was the appropriate direction to go. And it was the squat and the deadlift that taught me totally.

[Justin Andrews]

All right, I'm going to take a left. I was. So one of our sponsors, Zbotics, is this like pre alcohol drink that you take. And. And one of the ways, well, the main way it works is it breaks down acetaldehyde in the gut. And so what I did. And I'll get into what that means, what I did is I actually looked up research on how much acetaldehyde is released in the gut. So when you drink alcohol and your body breaks it down, when it gets to the liver, the liver has to detoxify something called acetate. And it does a pretty good job of this. Okay. Acetaldehyde is, for lack of a better term, is relatively toxic to the body. Makes you feel like crap. If you release in your bloodstream, you're going to feel like crap, you're going to feel inflamed, you can get headaches, you could feel down, depressed, it could throw off. And we know what this feels like because a hangover kind of mirrors a lot of these symptoms. And some people would say that a hangover, a lot of it is due to acetaldehyde, although that's not 100% accurate, but there's definitely that component.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, I'm sure there's other variables, dehydration, lots of things.

[Justin Andrews]

But acetaldehyde, not good for you. And so what happens when you drink alcohol is before it gets to the liver, some of this gets released in the gut. And so it's not able to be detoxified until it gets in your bloodstream. And I'm like, okay, well how. And so this is what zebiotics does, right? You drink zebiotics first, it's this probiotic, it's actually this bacteria that's been genetically modified to break down acetaldehyde. So this bacteria doesn't exist anywhere in the world. It's literally been created or modified, targets it specifically to break down acetaldehyde. Okay. And Zbotics is the only company that. That has this. So I looked up, I'm like, how much acetalde is actually released in the gut when I drink alcohol? What percentage of the acetaldehyde that comes, you know, as a byproduct of alcohol is in the gut? And so studies were kind of up and down, but the number that I'm finding, that seems to be the consensus around 10%, which is a lot. That's a lot. So, so you, you. You know, out of all the acetaldehyde that has to get broken down, 10% of it or so is released in the gut, goes to the. To the bloodstream. And this can cause problems. And so what zebiotic does is it takes care of what happens in the.

[Adam Schafer]

Gut, which I think is basically pair and break down. Is that what it does?

[Justin Andrews]

It literally is designed to break it down enzymatically.

[Doug]

Wow.

[Justin Andrews]

Through the way.

[Adam Schafer]

Is there anything out while you were reading?

[Justin Andrews]

Which is crazy science, everybody. Yeah, like, crazy science.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

That they. That they were able to figure this out, which is pretty wild.

[Adam Schafer]

Is there anything else that would cause that to release in the body?

[Justin Andrews]

H. Pylori. So H. Pylori, which is a common bacteria in the gut that you don't want, can cause ulcers and lots. In fact, you could do an H. Pylori test if you have gut issues. H. Pylori can increase acetaldehyde production in the gut.

[Adam Schafer]

Is that an autoimmune disease?

[Justin Andrews]

No, no. H. Pylori is just a bacteria. So when people used to get ulcers back in the day, we didn't know that it was caused by a bacteria. We thought it was like stress or acid, which can aggravate. Now we know if you have ulcers, you probably have. Yeah. H. Pylori. And then they'll give you an antibiotic to get rid of it, to kill it. But it's one of the things that can. So one of the side effects, one of the effects of H. Pylori, besides ulcers, is you just feel like garbage. Yeah. All the time. Because you're pumping out acetaldehyde at higher rates.

[Adam Schafer]

Interesting.

[Justin Andrews]

In the gut.

[Adam Schafer]

I wonder if somebody who has that, if they were taking something like a zbiotic, would make them feel probably better.

[Justin Andrews]

I wouldn't say it's a treatment for it because you need to get it treated. Of course. Antibiotics. Of course.

[Adam Schafer]

But just, like, temporarily, if you found that out and you did that, I wonder if that would be something that would at least mitigate some.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, if you have H. Pylori and you drink. You probably feel like real dog crap.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

When you combine the two of them.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

You know what's crazy about that, by the way? There was a. I think it was a scientist that theorized that ulcers were caused by a bacteria, and everybody laughed at them. Everybody makes the story for always.

[Adam Schafer]

All the stuff that we figure out, there's always somebody who's, like, ahead of the mavericks.

[Justin Andrews]

That's ridiculous, dude. You know how long people suffered back in the day? It wasn't that long ago. It was like a few decades ago. You had an ulcer. It was like, oh, antacids. Yeah. Calm down. It's like, this is, you get. This is just it. That's what you got.

[Doug]

This is just a common bacteria that you could pick up.

[Justin Andrews]

How do you get H. Pylori? Yes. It's contagious. I know. If, like, you had it, you could give it to some wife. Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Parasite thing.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, this you get through kissing that.

[Doug]

You get through different transmission.

[Adam Schafer]

Dude, you have to, you have to talk about.

[Doug]

This is a little more casual.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, dude. Share a drink.

[Adam Schafer]

Are you, Are you sending the guys the same. Is Doug looking it up right now? Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Person to person contact.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. Saliva, vomit, or stool or by contaminated food or water.

[Adam Schafer]

Interesting.

[Justin Andrews]

You know.

[Doug]

You know how many you get intimate? Some.

[Justin Andrews]

Do you know how gross, by the way. You know, like stomach viruses. Yeah, like, there's some stomach viruses that are like, stool. That's how you spread it. Like, how's people, you know, like on cruise ships? Dude, it's like everywhere.

[Doug]

It's on the. Dude, there's like, poop everywhere. If they had, like, some black light thing where you just could see, like, everybody's, like, hands and like, like money and like, everything that's, you know, all the particulate that's even in the air, you'd be, like, horrified.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, I mean, isn't like the, the door handle to the bathroom is worse than the toilet seat?

[Justin Andrews]

Don't even talk about the studies. I'm. I don't want to say this because this will. This.

[Doug]

You guys do this. I never, I never grab a door handle, like where you're supposed to.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, really?

[Doug]

On the top or in the bottom or like, where. I don't see anywhere.

[Justin Andrews]

You can't get away from it, bro.

[Doug]

I know, but it's just, it's gross.

[Adam Schafer]

I mean, I, I, I flush all toilets with my foot.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, yeah. If I go, I flush in my foot. I never flush in my hand. And I don't know how logical that is.

[Justin Andrews]

You know, it's probably better, I'm sure.

[Adam Schafer]

If I opened the door to the bathroom to get in, that was worse than the. I mean, whatever.

[Justin Andrews]

Or you flush the toilet and you're standing there and all the spray.

[Doug]

Oh, God.

[Justin Andrews]

You know, hey, this is actually a good question. I've always thought this. How protective are seat covers, really? Is that really protective, or is that just making us feel like we're safe?

[Adam Schafer]

Well, I just told you that the. I've seen the stuff. I've seen the studies on comparing the door handle to the bathroom to the toilet seat, and the door handle is worse. Is worse. So the. The irony that you grab the door handle and open the bathroom door, but then you put a seat cover on is actually kind of ridiculous. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

See, it's a waste of time.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

It does nothing. Yeah, it does nothing.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Which I always thought to myself, like. Well, I mean, how much is it.

[Doug]

Really, like, absorbs, like, some pee?

[Justin Andrews]

It doesn't even. It goes through.

[Doug]

I know. I mean, it's like. And then you feel it anyway.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, dude. It's like it's your skin that's on the seat anyway. So you're putting your. You know.

[Doug]

Yeah, I never got it, but.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, it's not right. But Doug's like, what's going on here?

[Sal Destefano]

No, if there's pee on the seat.

[Adam Schafer]

I clean before I spit and clean. That's what I do.

[Sal Destefano]

Spit and clean.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, yeah. I spit on the toilet seat and I clean it before I sit on it. Every single time.

[Sal Destefano]

No, we have a bottle of spray in our bathroom.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, I mean, yeah, if you don't have that, you just.

[Justin Andrews]

You literally just blew my mind. I am never going to the bathroom. You spit on the toilet.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, ours. We have a spray. Doug has a spray. Okay, but if I. If I go to a public place that doesn't have anything, I spit and I clean.

[Justin Andrews]

Why?

[Doug]

DNA is everywhere.

[Justin Andrews]

It cleans off.

[Adam Schafer]

Somebody who can't pee straight.

[Sal Destefano]

You rather sit on your own spit than somebody.

[Justin Andrews]

100%.

[Adam Schafer]

100%, yes. Ask that question again. Would I rather sit on my own.

[Justin Andrews]

Spit or someone else's pee?

[Adam Schafer]

Of course.

[Justin Andrews]

But does the spit do anything?

[Doug]

Is it friendly fire?

[Sal Destefano]

It dilutes down the pee, essentially. Okay, okay. This conversation is.

[Adam Schafer]

No, I mean. Okay, next time you guys go in the restroom.

[Justin Andrews]

We go to the bathroom.

[Adam Schafer]

Next week, we have spray.

[Doug]

We find out new things.

[Adam Schafer]

We have. We have. We have cleaning spray. So that's a. That's a luxury that. Not a Lot of bathrooms have. And if I. If I got a choice of sitting on that toilet with. With a toilet seat or me spitting and cleaning. I'm spitting, you know?

[Justin Andrews]

Do you guys want to trip? I don't know if you know this. Do you know what spreads in the most germs in the bathroom besides flushing the toilet? Hand dryers.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Hand dry. Have you seen the studies on that? It's basically just.

[Doug]

Yeah, of course, so.

[Justin Andrews]

And it blows. Bacteria and stuff everywhere.

[Adam Schafer]

Dude, I've heard that's, like, way more disgusting.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, it's terrible.

[Adam Schafer]

I never like those things. If I. If you got paper towels there. I'm using paper towels every time. Yeah, yeah, I know.

[Justin Andrews]

It's only.

[Adam Schafer]

It's only if you don't.

[Doug]

That's why I pee off my deck, dude.

[Justin Andrews]

Off your deck.

[Doug]

Hey, guys. Actually there, you know, down below is. Is a. A Frisbee go, like, course. So I'm always a little conscious of that. Like, you know what time it is? Because, yeah, I do hear them sometimes, and I'm just, like, doing my thing, and I. I'm gonna get caught one of these.

[Adam Schafer]

I didn't know there was a frisbee golf course below your house.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, I didn't know that.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Doug]

If you go down further down where all the redwoods are, it's like.

[Adam Schafer]

Have you taken the boys to do it?

[Doug]

Of course. Oh, yeah. We've done it a few times.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay. Yeah. Because I used to love.

[Justin Andrews]

I feel like, fun. That would be a. Because that would be a sport I would be good at. Just because you.

[Sal Destefano]

Of course.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Doug]

You're the carnival king.

[Justin Andrews]

Did I tell you guys?

[Doug]

So random. You know, in ra. Sport. Amazing guy.

[Justin Andrews]

Weird. We went to top. I didn't tell you guys. We went to topgolf. Family. Oh, yeah. You saw the video. Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

And. Oh, yeah, your son and you can sign up.

[Doug]

Crushed it.

[Justin Andrews]

He did. My little. My younger one's like. It's just like this weird athletic, just.

[Doug]

He's gonna be a phenom. Dude.

[Justin Andrews]

It's wild.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

But we. We train them. You can at topgolf. Because I've only been there once. I was with you guys a long time ago. You can do games.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

So we did Angry Birds. So when you hit the ball and knocks down the whatever. Yeah, I crushed it. I don't know why. I'm like, if it was real golf, I would obviously suck.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

But you turn it into some weird game, and suddenly I'm like.

[Adam Schafer]

It's like, that's why we made shirts Called Carnival King. I don't know what it is. Remember we made T shirts for you because of that.

[Doug]

Dude, if it's a carnival game, Thrive in the random.

[Adam Schafer]

You're good at that. Hey, talk about the, the Elon video that you sent to me about the.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, that's weird, dude.

[Adam Schafer]

Robots and education.

[Justin Andrews]

That's weird, dude.

[Doug]

What's that?

[Justin Andrews]

He's like, what was his estimation in there?

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, they, they, they said, yeah, 20 by 20, 40 by 2040. They asked him, would there be a billion? And he said, more.

[Justin Andrews]

10 billion. Yeah, he said there'll be 10 billion human. Yeah. Humanoid robots. He's like. He's like. He said, they will do. In a very short period of time, they will do better micro surgeries than any surgeon. He's like, you will get the best medical care and surgeries. I believe that from robots.

[Doug]

And they're also using robot arms. They're guiding them, though.

[Adam Schafer]

Like, well, yeah, he brought up a laser eye surgery.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

He's like, would you want. Yeah, would you want some doctor with a. With a laser hand you could have, or would you rather use what we are. He's. He goes. And the guy was like, well, what are the people that are going to be like the anti. And he's like, well, yeah, there'll be people that will roll the dice at the beginning that feel like that's a better idea. But then once all the data comes out and yeah. Shows numbers, you're like, yeah, yeah.

[Doug]

You go with, chances are way better.

[Adam Schafer]

Way better.

[Justin Andrews]

He did a clip that I thought was so controversial, but I, at this point now, I'm like, do I doubt the guy? Every time he says something, he does it. He said, it's a waste of time. Don't save money for retirement. It's like a waste of time.

[Doug]

Oh, I heard him say that.

[Justin Andrews]

I'm like, what? He's like, yeah. He's like, it's going to be so much abundance. It's not going to be universal basic income. He's going to be universal high income because of the efficiency of these humanoid robots to do work.

[Doug]

Yeah, I can't even fathom that.

[Justin Andrews]

I can't fathom.

[Doug]

Too hard to, like, wrap my head around. I can't fathom just the general population, how everybody's gonna react and behave as.

[Adam Schafer]

A result of that.

[Justin Andrews]

That's my thing is. Yeah. How are people gonna.

[Doug]

What's the society look like?

[Justin Andrews]

I think people think it's going to be utopia, but I think they got another thing coming.

[Adam Schafer]

No, that's what I Think I definitely. I, I would. If I was a betting man, I would bet high on sports. We're going to need that, that we need an outlet.

[Justin Andrews]

I think fitness is going to blow up.

[Adam Schafer]

I think fitness.

[Doug]

And I'm pretty optimistic about that.

[Adam Schafer]

So fitness and sports are going to be. They are already big outlets. They will become massive when people don't have anything to do and you have these robots that are doing a lot of the labor. Yeah, yeah. It's going to be interesting.

[Justin Andrews]

You know, it's crazy because a lot of people, I used to be this. I used to think that resources would solve almost all of our problems. This is when I was in my 20s. Oh. You know, free markets. And we're just gonna, once we figure these things out, like, it'll solve this problem. Yep. But if you ever watch, if you ever, if you've ever known anybody or you see people who had no money because of their circumstances or the behaviors, usually it's their behaviors suddenly get an influx of a lot of money.

[Adam Schafer]

They lose it.

[Justin Andrews]

Not only do they lose it, it's not good.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

It's actually terrible. Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

So now imagine if everybody had like access to tons of resources. I don't know if that would be a good thing for a lot of people. Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

My, my.

[Justin Andrews]

I mean, solving hunger.

[Adam Schafer]

So my biggest concern. And we already have examples of how this happened to us. We've talked about this a long time ago. And, you know, I think about my son. Right. Like, I'm less worried about us for sure. I'm more worried about our kids and the, the lack and drive they will have to learn and to, to educate themselves. Because it's just like your reasoning for not excelling in math or direction because we have computers and calculators and systems that tell us where to like. And so we've, we've, we've literally just, oh, I don't need that anymore. If we all sudden make these cuminoid robots that can answer all questions, that know they can build, they can do all these things.

[Justin Andrews]

And you're raised in that.

[Adam Schafer]

And you're raised in that. Why do I need to go to school? And why do I need to learn philosophy and why do I need to learn history? Why. Why ask my robot challenge going to be. Yeah, I'll just ask my.

[Justin Andrews]

And so it's going to be hedonism nightmare.

[Adam Schafer]

So. Yes. So really making sure that we, we teach your kids the learning for the sake of learning. And that's going to be hard. It's going to be hard to Tell a kid.

[Justin Andrews]

I just got a scary thought.

[Adam Schafer]

Because I mean, I mean he literally one of the things in that interview he says too is like, you know, I mean, school, other than the social aspect is a waste of time.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Is that, it's like, why are you going? Yeah, why are you going? Because all the, the skill that you're going to learn that the degree you're going to go get in for. Yeah.

[Doug]

You kind of take away a bit of the reward and the motivation with it. Like, because it's like, well, now you're just learning because it's good for you. It's like medicine, you know, but you're like, that's hard to sell.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, I just had a crazy thought too. How many children are going to be raised by perfect humanoid robots?

[Adam Schafer]

Totally.

[Justin Andrews]

Because raising kids is hard. So now you're going to have kids and then you'll be like, although you're super nanny, I mean, so okay, educate you.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay, so then, so then, so I can go do my thing. So then there's the.

[Justin Andrews]

By the way, this is all best case scenario.

[Adam Schafer]

No, it's not. There's, there's, there's, there's a more optimistic side to this. Okay. And maybe we, we swung so far on this, the pendulum of, you know, trying to destroy the nuclear family, that we come back to family and raising and kids and being connected. And now that we have these things that can go do all the labor, can build the house, can make the sandwich, can do all the things that it goes back to human connection and that, that's. I have all the time in the world to be connected to my son and to spend time with them and to raise a family. And now I can raise five, six, seven kids because I can afford to do it. Because I have these robots, like, so.

[Doug]

It almost reminds me like, you know, the royal family, like in England, it's like, why are we still doing this? You know, it's like pageantry. I feel like that's going to be like human nature.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Doug]

We're just all pretending we're still relevant.

[Justin Andrews]

You know what though, Adam? Here's why I'll disagree with you. This is easy to argue. This is objective fact. I hate it when people debate the opposite. It's not true. It's fact. Today we have way more resources to have a lot of kids than we did 50 years ago. Today it's easier. Everybody's like, no, yes, it is. It's easier. Trust me. My grandparents, I've had this debate with my cousins a million times, like it was easier for them to buy a house, but, yeah. Live the way they did.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. And you'll have way. The problem is you just have way more things. You spend money.

[Adam Schafer]

No, I don't disagree. I don't disagree. No, I don't disagree with that at all.

[Justin Andrews]

So it was harder objectively to have a lot of kids before, and yet people did.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Today it's easier and people have less because it's more about me.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, but you also, you're. You're generalizing society. There is no doubt in my mind that this will be bad for a lot of people, for sure. I mean, there's no doubt. There's like, of course. It always has, historically. But I. What I'm saying is there's like, Like, I. There's part of me that gets fearful of, like, my son is like. But I shouldn't be because I'll. I'll raise him. I'll teach him those things. So will you. So will you. And so there is an optimistic side of, like, man, how cool would it be that you don't have to do a lot of this labor stuff and then you get more time with your kid and then you can teach them better things and you can, like. So I, I. There, there will be. You're right. When you look at it as a majority, people will make the mistake. They will. They will outsource their knowledge. They will. That's. But historically, that's how it's always gone.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Let you know. People will continue. As you get more things in abundance, you'll want more.

[Justin Andrews]

And.

[Adam Schafer]

And so. Yeah. So the, the need of wanting more. But there will be other people that have already figured that out that will go. Yeah. The path of. I mean, gosh, I'm watching such a cool interview right now of Tony Robbins and Alex Hermosi. Just if you guys haven't. If you're for sure. If you or somebody.

[Justin Andrews]

I'm gonna watch it.

[Adam Schafer]

Who follows Alex Hermosi and likes what he's doing. It's such a different conversation. So to set the table, he went in with this. I could try and make this a viral episode, or I can go and selfishly ask Tony Robbins. And so you're getting to watch, like, a real life therapy session, in my opinion, of Tony with Alex. And Alex is a Young, brilliant entrepreneur, 37, 36 years old, who's on his way to be a billionaire. And you can see him wrestling. So this is so aligned with what we're talking about right now too.

[Justin Andrews]

Right.

[Adam Schafer]

Like, he's so he's gonna have all this. He already has abundance, and he's on his way for more abundance and has this whole choose a profession that's worth suffering for is his mantra. And you get to watch Tony Robbins completely deconstruct that.

[Justin Andrews]

I can't wait to watch it.

[Adam Schafer]

And I think that message. So for this conversation that we're having right now, I think the message that you hear, Tony giving Alex is so important for everybody, because everybody's gonna be in a position like Alex, and if it goes the way we're talking right now of abundance and have all the things. And it does. And so if that's a world that everybody will have, you will need to learn the lesson that he is teaching him in that. In that conversation, which I think is so cool.

[Justin Andrews]

Cool. All right. I don't know if you guys saw the. The big analysis, the big meta analysis on Tylenol and autism and adhd. So they came out with another study, not the latest, but, yeah, there's a big one. And they said in the study that. That there is no connection between Tylenol and autism and Tylenol and adhd. And some people will debate this or whatever, but that got me down a rabbit hole, because I think people think Tylenol. There's a lot of people now that. Before, maybe not so much now, that think Tylenol is like, this safe, like, whatever. I looked up some data on Tylenol because I know that Tylenol stresses the liver. I know that. Yeah. I know. When I. When I. When my wife takes Tylenol or Nyquil, she'll take Nyquil because it's got Tylenol in it. If she has a cold, I'll give her glutathione because I know that it stresses the liver. And so I'm like, you know, how much does it actually affect the liver? Like, what's the deal with it? And I looked it up, and I took some notes. It's actually unbelievable. So. So 56,000 people a year go to the ER for liver issues due to Tylenol. Of all acute liver failure in the U.S. 50% of it due to Tylenol.

[Adam Schafer]

Whoa.

[Justin Andrews]

20% of all liver transplants. Tylenol.

[Adam Schafer]

What?

[Justin Andrews]

Acetaminophen. It's very. Now.

[Adam Schafer]

One thing that I think that is not told, and that is obvious probably, is the. All those cases have to be people that really.

[Doug]

Chronic use.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes. Chronically used.

[Justin Andrews]

So it's people.

[Doug]

They also think it's innocuous.

[Justin Andrews]

That's right. So people using it chronically or accidentally taking more.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

So it's like, oh, I accidentally took too much.

[Doug]

Right.

[Justin Andrews]

Boom. Acute. So it's just a thing that people need to be careful with. With acetaminophen is, you know, you'll pay attention to how much you're taking, how long you're taking it.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

It could be very destructive.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

To the liver. But I didn't know those numbers. That's crazy. I didn't realize.

[Doug]

Yeah, that is crazy.

[Justin Andrews]

Half of the acute liver failures in hospitals that, you know, people go in there with is from acetaminophen. A lot of those, by the way, are attempted suicides because people know, oh, I could. I could kill myself with this pretty easily if I took the. Wow. I know.

[Adam Schafer]

That is a high number.

[Justin Andrews]

That's a high number, dude. That's a real.

[Adam Schafer]

It's a much higher number.

[Justin Andrews]

That's why if you like. If you drink and then you have a headache because you. Or whatever you want to avoid getting a headache, probably don't take Tylenol because you just. Now you combine two things.

[Doug]

What was that one drink, like, in the South? It was, like, syrup or whatever.

[Justin Andrews]

Scissor.

[Adam Schafer]

Hydrocod. Hydrocod, yeah.

[Doug]

Oh, hydrocodone. I thought it had, like, well in it.

[Adam Schafer]

Adam knows this stuff. No, it does. So it. It has both. So it's like, so basically.

[Doug]

Oh, that's got to be the worst.

[Adam Schafer]

Drink is my prescription has both. So, like, you're hydrocoding with. With acetaminophen.

[Justin Andrews]

Right. Why would people take that?

[Doug]

What a horrible combo.

[Adam Schafer]

It's made for pain. It's pain relief.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, yeah. They're just.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Is it opiate?

[Adam Schafer]

It's like.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Well, it's pair. It's. Yeah, that's what hydro.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Hydrocodine is. And so that's what Viking is. Viking is the brand.

[Justin Andrews]

Got it.

[Adam Schafer]

So Vicodin is a brand. Hydrocodeine, plus the acetaminophen is what's in there. And the. And the. The difference of the. The. Well, I don't even know if they still do this, but the difference with. Of the dosage was the. The big one has more hydrocodone in it, but the same amount of Tylenol in it. And for that reason, because they know that the Tylenol is having that much. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Wow. All right. Have you guys tried yet the different flavors of Huel? Have you tried the difference?

[Adam Schafer]

No, but what I just did. I know you. I haven't done the.

[Justin Andrews]

Doug, look up. Go. Go on their website, because I want to look up all the bro. I've tried now. Three of them, they knocked it out of the park, which is really hard to do with a vegan protein.

[Adam Schafer]

Very hard.

[Justin Andrews]

Very hard.

[Adam Schafer]

You've already sold me on. On me trying it. So I have to, I have to try. I did their. They have energy drinks too.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh. Oh, yeah. How was their energy?

[Adam Schafer]

So I had the watermelon. What'd you say?

[Doug]

I said, the wellness effect.

[Justin Andrews]

I don't know why I said, I hope that.

[Adam Schafer]

I hope that has to be the. I hope the entity team put, like, a sombrero on your head.

[Justin Andrews]

When I went home last night, I just sat, I looked at my wife and said, honey, I did the cringiest thing in the 10 years I've ever been on the podcast. Yeah, dude. And I'm like, I don't know why I pronounced it like this.

[Doug]

Well, now the name makes sense to me is like Human Fuel. Like, I think they comboed that, right?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. All right, so you did the energy drink?

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Yes.

[Adam Schafer]

So what'd you think? I liked it. I mean, I like the fact that it's 200 milligrams. It was a water dose. Yeah. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

They have theanine in it. Yes.

[Adam Schafer]

And they have theonine in it.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

So that's cool. I, I, you got me on that. A long.

[Justin Andrews]

Makes a big difference. Caffeine and theanine.

[Adam Schafer]

Very, very, if I had to describe it, what it's like when you take caffeine and theanine. And I think more and more of these, These companies have figured this out. It's like one of the, One of the worst parts about caffeine, the, the negative. One of the negative parts about it is the come down afterwards, you have this spike in energy, and then you come down afterwards, and then you feel like garbage. When I ever. I take caffeine, if I take it with theanine, whether it be in a drink like this or by itself, because there's times where I'll do coffee and that. You've got me to do that for a long time is. It's like this high, like, energy high that you get. And it's smooth with no crash.

[Justin Andrews]

Yes.

[Adam Schafer]

That is nice, smooth landing. That's what theanine feels like. It does when I pair it with caffeine. And I. So anytime I see somebody does that, it's just like they've, they figured that.

[Justin Andrews]

So they put theanine with the caffeine.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

What are the flavors there are the heel. Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

They have chocolate, and then they had the vanilla.

[Justin Andrews]

No, there's more, dude. Because I had chocolate peanut butter in there and then.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, was there chocolate?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, there's a lot. But they're really good. Yeah, they crush.

[Adam Schafer]

I'll have one today because you, you brought up the other day and I'm like, if you say they taste good and they're ready to drink and then they're 30 grams of.

[Justin Andrews]

30. 35.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, wow.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Really?

[Justin Andrews]

That high? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

I didn't realize it was that hot.

[Justin Andrews]

This is going to be, you know, the ready to drink protein drinks.

[Doug]

I love it.

[Justin Andrews]

After workouts typically don't go mainstream because of the taste, I guess. I, I think this one's going to go mainstream. I think, I think you're going to see a lot of people drinking these.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, you already. I already see them all and it's.

[Justin Andrews]

A nice macro breakdown. There's some fats in there.

[Doug]

Some of my grocery store.

[Justin Andrews]

Some carbs in there. So it's like a meal replacement.

[Adam Schafer]

I think more and more people too are. Or what is the, what is the rise in, like, dairy intolerance? Have you, have you looked at that?

[Justin Andrews]

Like, I don't know if it's been a rise, but it's still significant there. Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, it feels like it's higher. I feel like today when I talk to somebody, there was way more people. I know that. Or maybe they just. More awareness. Yeah.

[Doug]

I was gonna say the word because.

[Adam Schafer]

The, the amount of people in my life that say. I mean, I was just with somebody this weekend that were like, that are dairy intolerant. And it's just like, it's not a fitness person. It's just normal people that I wouldn't have heard that from, like, are talking about. So I wonder if there's. What is it? Wow.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. 65 to 70% of the world's population has some degree of lactose intolerance.

[Justin Andrews]

By the way, that's because a lot of Asian people and there's a lot. And there's a huge population. Right. So, like, China has a huge population. If you're, if you're Asian, the, the odds that you have an issue with dairy is very hard. If you're from like northern Europe, you're probably fine.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. Northern European. 15 to 25% Hispanic, up to 90% Asian. African and Hispanic.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. By the way, African. Very high in dairy intolerance. Unless you're from this one specific region.

[Adam Schafer]

Look at 90% feed the Maasai. 90%?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

That's wild.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. The Maasai tribe They, no problem. They have a different gene, by the way, than the, than the Northern Europeans that break down so we can all have lactose as babies and then we just lose that ability as well.

[Doug]

It's the one tribe that, where, you know, women, they, they like them a lot bigger and so they, they feed them a lot of milk.

[Justin Andrews]

I know what you're talking about. Where they go in a hut a.

[Doug]

Lot of calories and they go eat.

[Justin Andrews]

A bunch of milk and, and honey. It might be them. And they get fat and they come out.

[Doug]

Yeah, but that's like desired. Like big women are desired in that tribe.

[Justin Andrews]

There's like a, there's like this, this. And I think men will do this too, right before they get married. They'll go in a hut and the goal is to get them like as fat as possible. Yeah. And then they'll come out and they're considered like a trap. Yeah.

[Doug]

They're like, wow.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, wow. By the way, being, being different cultures overweight for a long time in human history was like, sign of wealth. It's a sign of like, abundance.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes. You got that much money, it makes.

[Doug]

A lot more sense.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

No, it says. There's no evidence that Maasai people. There was definitely a tribe, though, that does this. Where they go in a hut and they have honey.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

I'm not just in milk. And they just sit.

[Doug]

Exactly.

[Adam Schafer]

Honey and milk.

[Justin Andrews]

And they sit. They feed the hell out of them. Yeah. To make them, you know.

[Adam Schafer]

So you just brought up the abundance thing to circle back on the thing. Like right now, one of, one of the drivers is, is abundance because you can provide and stuff like that. And that's a, that's an attractive quality. Like, that's why you always see the old rich dude with these young, hot, hot girls all the time. Like, what happens when we get to a place where everybody has a rich.

[Doug]

Dude move isn't going to work anymore?

[Adam Schafer]

Think about that.

[Sal Destefano]

The country's Mauritania, by the way.

[Justin Andrews]

Where?

[Sal Destefano]

Mauritania. It's a West African country.

[Justin Andrews]

That sounds like like we're like a Marvel Movie country.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

You know, like we're from Mauritania. Anyway, so that's, that's the one that, that they have.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. They force feed to stay fat women.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. They make them sit in a hut all day and they literally force feed them.

[Doug]

The old guy, you know that. And I'm not like hung out to dry.

[Adam Schafer]

I left you because I had no idea. I didn't know that was a thing.

[Justin Andrews]

How long do they stay in the hut. I've seen something on this, Justin. Yeah. Where they literally go in a hut.

[Doug]

In the old months.

[Justin Andrews]

The older women force them, and some of them try to get out. Yes, dude, yes.

[Doug]

Yeah, they're, like, rigid about it.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. You just got to bring in some Italian grandmas.

[Doug]

They'll crush, dude.

[Justin Andrews]

I had, like. My parents came over last night to eat over.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

And my niece, she now lives with us, right? This is Jessica's niece. She could be picky with food, right? You know, some kids are like this or whatever. And now she's been around my mom long enough to know, like, my mom's gonna try and make her eat. And so I tease her about it. So she's sitting next to her. And my mom's relentless, bro. She's relentless about it.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

She's like, why don't you eat that? You don't want. And she's like, well, I don't like that one. Well, why don't you try this piece? And she's just doing it. And I'm looking at her. I'm like, listen. She just. This is how she shows love. And I'm like, ma, you gotta stop. Like, what are you doing? You gotta stop. She's just relentless. Yeah. This just can't stop it. She can't help her.

[Adam Schafer]

I mean, you've been doing it for 60 years of her life, right?

[Justin Andrews]

She's not even as bad as my grandmother. When I went to Sicily as a kid. I'll never forget this. I was 12 years old, and I was already used to my mom, so I'm like, okay, whatever. She followed me around the house with food. I'm not exaggerating. Everywhere I went, my grandmother would come up with something. And if I said no, she'd try again five minutes later. And then she'd make something else and bring me something else. It was all day.

[Doug]

That's crazy.

[Justin Andrews]

All day. And she would just do this. Now, to my delight, I gained weight because I was skinny. So I was like, cool. This is good.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

But I remember thinking, like, this is crazy. What is it? I'm gonna do something else.

[Adam Schafer]

Katrina and I are right now having to. To try and sneak calories to max because he. Bro, he. It's the weirdest thing I've ever seen. Me sex. Meat. Meat and fruit. That is it.

[Justin Andrews]

He's pu.

[Adam Schafer]

I kid does not want Mac and cheese. He doesn't want bread. He doesn't want any sort of rice. Like, he doesn't have. Like, we have to, like, make him eat his rice.

[Justin Andrews]

Like, Pizza.

[Adam Schafer]

No.

[Justin Andrews]

What?

[Adam Schafer]

No, bro.

[Justin Andrews]

And if you order.

[Adam Schafer]

If you order him a hamburger, dude doesn't want the bun, doesn't want the cheese.

[Doug]

That was tripping out because my kids don't really like fries. And I'm like, what?

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, he doesn't even, like. So, like, he won't finish his fries. He'll eat a couple of them while he's eating his burger, but then he'll leave them.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Wow.

[Adam Schafer]

And he loves for just. So the. One of the ways I sneak calories in is Cocoa Whip, honey and granola.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

And berries.

[Justin Andrews]

Like, so you're, like, heavy on the granola.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, yeah. So post. So he'll eat his meat, and then post dinner, he's like, what can I have? You have. We have Cocoa Whip. Yeah. Okay. So I go get Cocoa Whip out and pile the honey, pile the berries, pile the granola on it, and he'll eat it. And so it's like his.

[Doug]

His.

[Adam Schafer]

It's so weird to watch him.

[Justin Andrews]

Not amazing.

[Adam Schafer]

I would have never thought, like, getting carbs in the same kid would be. Would be a hard. A hard thing, but it's. It's so. It's a trip to. To watch. But yeah, I mean, he's. He's lanking out right now, and so he's.

[Justin Andrews]

He's really taller.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. So he's really lean. And so I believe Katrina. I'm like, hey, we gotta bump his calories. And when I watch the way he eats, I'm like, I just eating meat, guys.

[Justin Andrews]

My son. Yeah, my son wants only, like, rare meat. He doesn't like anything that looks like it's cut. I have to cut the edges off the meat off because he just wants the bloody part. That's weird for a little kid.

[Adam Schafer]

Max will eat. Will eat my steak. Yeah, he loves. He loves. He loves steak, man. So that's good.

[Justin Andrews]

Probiotics have been shown to produce incredible results in people from a health perspective. Right? Good gut health, reduced inflammation. But did you know probiotics have been connected to better athletic performance, more muscle, maybe even better fat loss. There's actually some data suggesting it helps with fat loss and cravings. Probiotics are incredible beneficial bacteria. The problem is, which one do you use? Seed. Go with seed. You guys, this is the one probiotic we work with, the only one, because it's the best. It's the world's best probiotic. Go to seed.com mindpump. Use the code 20. Mindpump. Get 20% off your first month's order of their daily symbiotic. Here comes the show.

[Sal Destefano]

First question is from Jenfitgen. Maybe this is silly, but I'm trying to take rest periods seriously and have a question. During my two to three minutes, do I need to sit still that whole time or can I prep the bar for my next workout and, or like stretch too far?

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

You can move, you can walk.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Calm down. You just, just don't do a workout in between.

[Adam Schafer]

I, I want to address the, the stretching. Stretching is probably not ideal, especially if it's, it's a, if you're holding a stretch, if you're doing like some mobility priming stuff, that's cool. But what you don't want to do is hold a stretch for say 25, 30 seconds. So if you're holding a stretch, like.

[Justin Andrews]

It reduces the CNS signal.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah. And you're not, you don't want to do that right before you call upon it to lift some heavy. Especially if you're doing long three, three minute rest periods. I'm assuming you're also in a phase where you're trying to lift heavy weight. Holding a stretch for an extended period of time. Not a good idea. It's not that ridiculous. I, I, I, I pay sometimes. Like when some, you'll see me in here all the time. Like I'm lifting and my headphones are in and I'll just kind of be slowly, but it's a slow pace.

[Justin Andrews]

Just walking. You're just not working out in between.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Because that's actually a problem. People are like, I need to do something else to train while I'm resting.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

But, but you know what I used to do? I haven't, I don't do this anymore because I bring my water with me. But back in the day I didn't have a water bottle with me and my rest period was walking to the water fountain, getting a sip of water and then walking back. And that would typically.

[Adam Schafer]

I used to do the same thing. Yeah, yeah, I do the same thing.

[Justin Andrews]

And I'm like, I just thought about this today. I'm like, oh, yeah, that's how I would kind of time everything.

[Adam Schafer]

But to your point, to the water point, I have, that's, that was, and of course it's now it's been a bodybuilding habit, but I had to drink so much water and I was challenged. I think drinking a gallon of water is such a good goal and a lot of people will miss that by a lot. And so in a workout, like my rest period is drinking water. Yeah, like a lot of like it to get through a lot of water in a day. I find that's the easiest time for me to attack a lot of water and stay hydrated. And so I make that rest period, drinking a lot of water, maybe pace a little bit. Maybe I've got my head down and I'm focusing, but that, that'll get three minutes between every set, really Drinking a bunch of water, kind of sitting there for a second, calming my heart rate down, maybe pace a little bit and then I'm back into a set.

[Justin Andrews]

We have a lot of listeners that listen to us in between sets. So they'll listen to music when they're doing the set, then they'll play the podcast.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, I never thought of switching it.

[Justin Andrews]

Like that, which I, I like it. Not because you're listening to my podcast. That's great. I appreciate that. But when I think of something either it's, you know, what I'm going to talk about here at work or these days I'll read the Bible or whatever. I like it because it makes the rest period go by quicker and I also get my best thoughts. I think it's the movement that does it.

[Doug]

So might have changed a lot. Like now it's a little bit more Zen and meditative. The rest periods before that, before when I was like younger, I used to just focus on, you know, somebody that was like an enemy. The whole thing is about like, yeah, rage.

[Adam Schafer]

Looking for anger, you know?

[Doug]

Yeah. Finding that rage.

[Adam Schafer]

And then who do I hate now?

[Doug]

Yeah, you know, I don't advise that.

[Sal Destefano]

Next question is from Danielle Morse, 43. How can I build my legs and glutes when I have really bad knees?

[Adam Schafer]

You don't have really bad knees.

[Justin Andrews]

It depends on what you mean by. Exactly on what you mean by. First off, hip thrusts are going to be very easy on your knees. So there's your glute exercise and then correctional exercise and ease your way into it. What you'll find is proper strength training within your limitations tends to make you almost always improves the health of your knees and then allows you to move into deeper and longer ranges of motion. Yeah. So, and this is. And by the way, the data shows this, like proper strength training doesn't just build muscle, it builds cartilage. It builds and challenge synovial fluid. It does all those things.

[Doug]

Yeah, challenge that stability wise with unilateral or split stances and, and really like lean into that. And so you get everything tracking well, so a lot of times it's, it's a tracking issue with the knees that's kind of pulling it out of its position, which you might find some kind of discomfort or pain in. But for the most part, like, once we kind of isolate that and work one leg to the other, you can really see a lot of discrepancies more clearly.

[Adam Schafer]

It's not a lot of times that. It's all the times that. Unless it was an acute injury.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

So I want to address the bad knees thing. You don't have bad knees. You've got. You've. Unless you had some direct. Someone hit you with a baseball bat and broke your patella, or you had like a direct acute injury to the knee. And even then, you don't have bad knees. You got hurt, you got injured, and we got to recover and we gotta repair. But when people say they have bad knees, it's because they have pain, they have inflammation, they have all these issues that are going on. Pattern issues, and that's movement pattern issues. That means the knee, to Justin's point, is not tracking properly. And that's most commonly related to the ankles and the hips. And so addressing the ankle mobility and strength, addressing the hip mobility and strength will get rid of this idea that you have bad knees, and then that'll create good movement patterns. So when you do movements like squatting, deadlifting, hinging, right, the knees don't feel stressed. They feel stressed right now because you have bad movement patterns, which then causes the inflammation within, causes all the achy. And you to say things like, I have bad knees. But I this. And I want to address it because it's so common that clients would. Would say this term to me. They have bad knees. Because. And I get why you say it, right? Because your knees hurt and they get inflamed, and you've been told you got this wear and tear and all this stuff going on, and so you then. But you got to get rid of that verbiage. Like, you got to get rid of saying that. That you've got bad knees. It's like, no, you've. You've got poor movement patterns. And we can fix that. We can fix movement patterns. We can get somebody to have better ankle and mobility and strength. We can get somebody to have better hip mobility and strength. And I guarantee, no matter where your knee is at currently right now, as far as what you think is bad, if we improve the ankle and hip mobility strength, and you will feel better. It will. It will improve.

[Sal Destefano]

Next question is from Live Colorfully. Why can't you do trigger sessions all at once? Like a set of 3 instead of 3? Different times a day?

[Justin Andrews]

That's a good question. So for people who aren't familiar, a trigger session, it's not like a workout. So typically you do these on the days you don't work out. And it's a very light, I don't know, for lack of a better term pumping session, usually with bands. A signal really that you're kind of working the muscle enough to get some blood flow to feel it a little bit, a little bit of a burn. You're not doing anything crazy. And it really does, it facilitates recovery and it probably sends a very small muscle building signal. Now why spread them out? Because you want three small signals instead of one signal. And doing them all at once turns it more into a workout, which kind of defeats the purpose of the trigger session. So spreading them out throughout the day produces better results versus doing them all at once, which then again you start to get fatigued and it becomes just like another mini workout.

[Doug]

You gotta think of it more as like active recovery.

[Justin Andrews]

So.

[Doug]

Yeah, to, to spread that out.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Doug]

You're not gonna overly tax or, or get that kind of wear and tear like from your workout.

[Adam Schafer]

I, I also think that there's, there's behavioral benefits and carryovers to the spreading out three times that we don't always talk about. Right. Like you're, you're talking about the science of the, of, of the, the signal and the loudness of it. And, and it, by it being spread out is already better. But it's also better because what it typically tends to do with the average person who decided to do it in that one little 12 minute session or whatever, or 20 minute session versus spreading it out over three little 8 minute to 10 minute sessions is it creates more movement and activity throughout the rest of the day. Because if it like and this is, I've seen this time and time again, not only with my clients, but myself. It's like when you spread it out like that, you end up being more active and more activity, more movement tends to be, be better for almost all people. And so there's also behavioral things that happen that also benefit you by spreading it out three times.

[Sal Destefano]

Next question is from Brittany Groomer. What are the pros and cons of cold plunge, ice bath, sauna and hot tubs? Hot baths? Is one better for weight loss, muscle gain and mental health and recovery?

[Justin Andrews]

Good question. Very different. Cold and hot, very different for what they do the body. Number one though I will say this, both ice or both cold and hot are a stress on the body. Okay. So they're both to an extent, a stress signal. Now that stress signal causes changes that can be preferable or can cause beneficial changes in the body. Okay, but they're different. Ice reduces inflammation, which can feel good temporarily. But the main benefit of the cold, and there's lots of things people can argue really the main benefit of the cold is catecholamine release. And so when you're in the cold and you get out, you get this boost of dopamine, norepinephrine, epinephrine gives you this kind of boost of energy which feels kind of good. There's athletic potential benefits, not because it helps with athletics, but rather it allows you in many, in some cases to do more workouts because of the reduction of, of inflammation. Now hot, hot improves blood flow, dilates the, the, the blood vessels. It's got in some, unless it's overdone, can boost recovery. It seems to have good heart health benefits. But it's also a stress on the body and it can also be overdone. If I had to pick one, it would be hot.

[Adam Schafer]

It'll be sauna. Yeah, the research is clear on that for longevity purposes. And I know that Dr. Peter T. Has been, been on this, been on this bandwagon for a couple years now. That's like mainly what he goes around talking about is how profound the studies are in regards to longevity. If you had to pick one of these sauna and I believe the application is 4 times 20 minutes for maximum. Right. Anywhere any is better than none. But four times in a week at 20 minute increments at 170 degrees is what like the, what reaches peak maximum benefits for that. But to your point, it's also a stress. So if you're piling that on top a bunch of other things. This I want to add though to the cold punch. It's so funny with this is a question because I was actually addressing this with somebody I was sitting in a sauna with this weekend. And so and he was asking kind of the science and all this and what's too much, all these different things. And one of the other benefits I think of, of the cold plunge too is, is your ability to do like do hard things right? Is to like consistently do that and then also to regulate your breathing. All we are at these low level stress levels all the time and a lot where our heart rate is kind of elevated all, all day long. And I remember the very first time we did one and Justin smoked, the two of us at it and it was like because he had gone through the WIM Hof thing and he understood how to regulate his breathing. And the value of the ability to regulate. It's. That's what that all is like. Once you learn to sit, how do you deal with. Once you learn to sit in a cold bath for two minutes, you can sit in it for 10 minutes, but if you don't know how to do it, you're out within the first two minutes.

[Justin Andrews]

And that's a beneficial skill.

[Adam Schafer]

And that's it. Exactly. That.

[Doug]

Do that when you're faced with crazy.

[Adam Schafer]

Exactly. And what I was explaining to my friend is that that that's kind of like meditation is also a similar thing. Right. Is the ability to calm yourself and to get in a meditative state. Why the cold plunge is such a hack for somebody who's always. Who may have said the things like, I don't know, I can't meditate. I can never. I don't get it. It doesn't work. It's like the cold plunge forces you to like you. It's. It's using an external. An external thing to force you to meditate the body, right. Learn to calm your central nervous system down like that. And that skill is a very powerful skill for other things that happen in your life. And so that's a tremendous value.

[Justin Andrews]

You know, it's funny you say that because I like heat, right. I don't use cold. I don't use cold almost never. But I like heat, I like steam, I like sauna. And I don't do it for the. Although I know the health benefits are great. Longevity, you know, recovery, maybe, but I don't do it for those reasons. I do it because when I sit in the heat, especially in the steam, I'm sitting there, I can't put my phone in there.

[Doug]

Your phone doesn't work.

[Justin Andrews]

I'm not, you know, especially steam. It kind of covers me. So I kind of feel like I'm on myself, even though people are next to me and I can sit and I can think or I can pray or I can be mindful. And I don't do that very often. And so it just kind of puts me in this place, forces me in this place where I could do something that I.

[Doug]

That I Ultra present.

[Adam Schafer]

I love that you said that because I would. This is why I would love. Love. When we get on conversation with Peter, Tia, I would love to make the argument that a lot of the longevity.

[Justin Andrews]

Benefits come from you just sitting there quiet.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, one of the. One of the things that causes stress is worrying about the future. The antidote to that would be hyper present in the moment you just made the case.

[Justin Andrews]

External discomfort tends to do that. Yes.

[Adam Schafer]

Like I'm here and so you have.

[Doug]

To be in it.

[Adam Schafer]

And so you when in that. If you. And imagine if you're doing this consistently four times a week, how healthy that's got to be for the average person who has a really, which is most people are always thinking about tomorrow, the thing they gotta do, the bill they gotta pay, the kid they gotta pick up. Also, with that forcing you to be hyper present, how many other things do you do in your life that force you to? Unless you're a person who already meditates every other day or whatever like that. That's probably one of the reasons it plays into longevity.

[Justin Andrews]

Totally 100%. Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. It's mindpump Media. We'll see you there.

[Sal Destefano]

Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB super [e-mail] the RGB Super Bundle includes Maps, Anabolic Maps, Performance and Maps Aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos. The RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee and you can get it now. Plus other valuable free [e-mail] if you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review on itunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is Mind Pump.

[Chris Gethard]

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