← Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth
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A
If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go.
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Mind Pump. Mind Pump.
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With your hosts, Sal Destefano, Adam Schaefer.
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And Justin Andrews, you just found the most downloaded fitness, health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump. Today's episode. Callers called in and we coach them on air. They want to burn body fat, build muscle, get more fit. You, you get to listen to us help them out live. By the way, if you want to be on an episode like this, send us your question. Send it to mplivecaller.com now. All of that was at the end of this episode. The beginning is our intro. Today's intro is 54 minutes long. That's where we talk about fitness, fat loss, muscle gain, health, all kinds of crazy, even current events. It's a good time now. This episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Crisp Power. These are high protein pretzels. They're delicious and you're looking at 25 grams of protein or more per bag. If you're trying to hit your protein targets, you like to snack like, this is one of the best. Two bags, 50 grams of protein. You gotta go check it out. Go to crisppower.com, get 10% off if you use the code mindpump10. This episode is also brought to you by Vuori. This is the best athleisure wear you'll find anywhere. It's comfortable, it lasts a long time. It's great stuff. You know who they are. They've blown up. They're everywhere. We have one of the biggest discounts you'll find online if you go on our link vuoriclothing.com mindpump that's V U-O-R-I-Clothing.com mindpump. That link will get you 20% off. We also have a new program sale this month. We have the couples bundle. So this is a bundle of programs and then we took the whole thing and slashed the price 50%. Here's what's in the bundle. Maps, aesthetic maps, hit maps, Muscle mommy. And the no BS six pack formula. That entire thing is 50% off. Go check it out. Go to MP Valentine.com Here comes the show.
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C
T shirt time.
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And it's T shirt time.
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C
Ah, shit, Doug. You know it's my favorite time of the week.
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Three winners this week. Two for Apple Podcasts, one for Facebook. The Apple Podcast winners are Comsa Noble and T. Larson 246. And for Facebook, we have Liz Dollinger. All three of you are winners. Send the name I just read to itunesindpumpmedia.com Include your shirt size and your shipping address, and we'll get that shirt right out to you.
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All right, real quick.
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If you love us like we love you, why not show it by rocking one of our shirts, hats, mugs, or training gear? Over@mypumpstore.com I'm talking right now. Hit, pause, head on over to my pumpstore.com. that's it. Enjoy the rest of the show.
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B
Do you want to make your reps two to three times more effective? You can do that if you focus on a few things. The stretch, pausing, and squeezing. We're going to talk about how to make your reps far more effective. Don't change your workout, Change your reps. Watch what happens. Let's get into it.
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C
This is your training right now.
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B
This is why I feel like that's.
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C
What you've been focusing on right now.
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B
Well, we talked in a previous episode about rep ranges and how you can change that. And my headspace is been around simple tweaks to your program that can produce a nice change because, you know, programming can be complex and we can go into, like, completely changing your program, but there's so many moving parts.
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C
Yeah.
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B
And oftentimes it's like one little change, you know, like. Like how many reps you do. We talked about that in one of our previous episodes. How you do reps, that's another thing you can change. That'll have a big impact.
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C
Yeah. I also think that my point of bringing that up, that. That this is you right now is that you're. You're probably near peak strength in a lot of your lifts right now. And I'm sure that you know that the risk versus reward of just adding more.
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B
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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C
Weight is not a good idea. And so moving in this direction, where you really focus on the pause, the squeeze, the stretch.
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B
Yeah, yeah.
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C
To just new stimulus without.
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D
Yeah, that's a big one.
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B
Is.
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D
Is risk factor.
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C
Right.
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D
Like in earlier on, when you're really trying to build, develop this, like, foundation of strength, that's where, you know, it plays a big factor of, like, going for those bigger, riskier, you know, adding a lot of load and getting strong and hitting that max capacity where, you know, as you age, it's really starting to kind of hit differently.
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B
Yeah, no, good point. No, I see what you're saying, Adam. And Yeah, Justin, that's 100% true. The other thing, too, is at some point, the benefits you get from getting stronger, you get diminishing returns. So when you first get started, if you're really consistent, okay, everything's dialed in for the first two or three years. Just get stronger. That's gonna give you the best gains, period. End of story. If you're doing your strength training, your goal is to get stronger. Now, of course, you change exercises, good technique, all that stuff, don't compromise your form. But for the first few years, that's it. That's all you gotta focus on. After that, you start to get diminishing returns to where, you know, if I added 30 pounds to my max squat right now, I probably wouldn't see that big of a difference on my body. But my, my, my risk of injury went through the roof. Yeah. Whereas you take someone who's only been lifting for a year and you add 30 pounds to the squat, and it's like big changes to their body.
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D
Yeah.
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B
And this is just the stronger you get, the more true this is. And so this becomes more important. Now, that's not to say this isn't important. What we're going to talk about isn't important for somebody also just trying to get strong like this is. This is key information to understand with your strength training, because the stretch part of a rep, pausing your reps, the squeeze part of your rep, all have their own value. And before we get into them, it is important to understand full range of motion is king. Okay? And your muscles will get strong largely in the range of ranges of motion you train them in. So this is very important to understand because as we go through these, we'll talk about portions of the rep that the data shows builds more muscle. But if you stay there, you start to develop really bad movement patterns, you start to develop dysfunction. And you see this oftentimes with bodybuilders, where bodybuilders get so focused on hypertrophy that they really don't consider function. And their ranges of motion end up being short because they focus on the part of the rep that tends to build the most. But then this causes problems with their bodies and the way they move. And we've seen this before. We've seen this with some of the models that we've had shoot for some of our programs where they couldn't hold a rep at lockout because they never trained at lockout. And so you start to create this really big disparity with how your strength curve looks, because, again, you know, there's definitely carryover outside of the range of motion you train, but it's mostly in that range of motion. If you don't Train the full range of motion. You'll get really strong here and then you'll get the disparity between that and the range of motion. Note train becomes so large, risk of injury goes to the roof.
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D
Little bit of a sidebar, but there's been like a couple studies that just recently have come out. About a quarter squat, half squat and.
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C
Full squat for athletes. Yeah.
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D
Which is interesting. But it does make a lot of sense. Deliberately targeting where you, you know, obviously you're going to generate the most force. And so there's, there's a little. Not just bodybuilding. There is that in the performance world as well. The only reason I bring that up.
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C
No, that that's, I mean we, we talked about this way back when, you know, the clip of LeBron James went viral.
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B
Yeah. Everybody's like, that's not a full squad.
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C
Yeah. And it's like it doesn't serve him to do that. Interesting. You brought up the bodybuilders for the negative reasons. Because I was going to, as you were going through this, give them their flowers for. I think bodybuilders are some of the ones that do this the best.
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B
The smart ones, the ones that have longevity do. You're right.
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C
Yeah.
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B
Like Dexter Jackson.
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C
Yeah.
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B
You ever watch him lift? It's like a full range of motion. Yeah.
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C
And, and there. And, and also take advantage of all this. Right. Like, you know, I lifted this way or in the early part of my career where I just, I never cared about really trying to get that much stronger. It was always about form, technique, manipulating all these different things at the stretch and at the pause and like tempo and, and so. And that got me pretty far. Although the negative to that was. And I've shared this before that because I wasn't focused on strength, I left a lot of gains on the table. I mean, I didn't get those until later on. Whereas if I could go back and do it all over again, I would have laid the foundation for the first couple years of really pursuing strength. Then once I started to get pretty strong, then I probably would have switched to all bodybuilder type of training. And I think that would have served me versus I was a. I was the reverse because I, I would say I thought I was a bodybuilder, but I thought that that type of training is like, was more. What I was chasing was esthetics. So I trained this way all the time where I never trained like a power lifter or a strong man and neglected the low rep ranges and hitting PRs and going that direction. It was always just like the stretch, the pause, the pump, like that direction. So there's obviously benefits to both. And I think the best bodybuilders or the best lifters in general are the ones that learn to integrate both of those and balance and never fall in love with just one. Because I think that's where you lose out, is when you identify with one way of training, which I think a lot of us, if not all of us, are kind of guilty of that.
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B
Of course.
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C
Right?
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B
Of course. You like something so much, that's what you do.
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C
Yeah.
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B
By the way, back to the athlete thing. I got to say this before people get confused. The more elite and advanced an athlete becomes as they age and as they continue on their sport, the more specialized their training becomes to continue to improve their performance. In other words, a young athlete should do full range of motion exercises. They'll get better performance in their sport with full range of motion. Once they get to college and then the NBA, then it starts to get much more specific. And this is true for all their training. The data shows you take a kid, the risk factor. Yeah. And it's also just overall mechanics and motor control and development, like specialization. You look at if you took a kid who was gifted at soccer, let's say you had an eight year old, that you had coaches come up to you and go, oh my God, that your kid is gifted. The worst thing you could do is have your kid only play soccer from then on. The data actually shows that if that kid plays soccer, basketball, track, gymnastics, and then later specializes, he'll be better at soccer than if he only had played soccer early on. And this is true with strength training.
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D
More variables.
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B
That's right.
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D
And is able to overcome them.
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B
That's right. So if you gave me LeBron James is a, you know, seventh grader, we're doing full range of motion exercises. LeBron James, NBA. Yes. Partial squats. So that's just so that people understand. That's a good point. Okay, so let's get to stretch first. So when you're doing a wrap, the stretch portion of the wrap is typically the bottom. And a good way to explain this, an easy exercise would be like a fl. If I'm doing a chest fly, when I'm at the bottom is when I'm getting the stretch in the chest. And there's a lot of different ways to stretch different muscle groups. And some exercises are better at this than others. Here's what the data shows. When you compare different rep ranges, the stretch portion produces double to triple the hypertrophy so of the entire range of motion, the stretch portion builds the most muscle. Okay, now this is good to know because a lot of people when they're in the gym, they stay away from the stretch or bottom position because it means they can't lift as much. Yeah. So you're doing a squat, you're not going all the way down, you're, you're doing a fly, you're kind of cutting it short because you just can't use as much weight, but you're actually leaving gains on the table. The stretch is the best part for building muscle of all of the ranges of motion.
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D
Well, is that kind of. Because people avoid that full range where they get that statistic, you know, where they're getting, you know, in excess that much more.
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B
No, the studies are actually pretty good from beginners. From start, they take, well, they take people who already lift and then they take them and they say, we're only doing the stretch part. And then you're doing full range of motion and the stretch part. Actually in the studies, if they just focus on that slightly outperforms even full range of motion. Now, their studies are obviously 12 weeks, 16 week. And I'm going to tell you this right now, if you only ever focus on the stretch part, like if you cut your rep short just to do the stretch part, you're going to hurt yourself. You're going to really develop terrible movement patterns. You're going to have poor, poor function and that will eventually get in the way of you getting a better.
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D
I imagine too, the eccentric emphasis on that plays a factor because we all know that, you know, the negative portion and controlling that deceleration really is what, you know, tears up the muscle.
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B
There's something about stretch under load that by itself also sends a muscle building signal. And there's animal studies on this, human studies tend to point to this where if you're in a deep static stretch under load, there's something special about it in terms of building muscle. So that's the important part of the stretch part. So if you're avoiding that, don't. By the way, a little caveat. You have to have good control and stability before you play with this because some people don't have the stability, then they'll get in the straight and they'll hurt themselves. Yep. So go lighter to kind of play with this part of the round.
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C
Well, I shared my journey on here years ago when I, after working on my, my mobility, in particular my ankle and hip mobility, to get a deep squat and I had to reduce the weight, like, dramatically. But I remember long before I had caught up to my max weight of short squats or, you know, a little bit, I was probably just around parallel, a little bit deeper than parallel when I first started. I. Before I even got back up to that weight, I had gained significant size on my legs in comparison. And so doing a lighter weight in that deep, full range of motion, that stretch position, definitely, I mean, you can see the difference. And you're comp. I'm comparing a time of where I was lifting for years a certain way, and then it's just a short period of time of lifting in that full range of motion surpassed all those years of training in the shortened range.
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B
So, yeah, this is especially like, this is such a good tip for people working their lats. There's a lot of exercise. A lot of you just really stretch the lats. Even your arms, like triceps, for example. Overhead tricep extensions seem to be really good at building the triceps because you're stretching the triceps. Incline curls seem to be really good at building the biceps because they're in a stretch position. So the takeaway with this is don't avoid the stretch part of a rep and make sure you include exercises that are good for this. And if you follow a maps program, unless it's a sports specific kind of maps program or whatever, what you'll find in our programming is there's almost always a lift that is really good for the stretch in the body part.
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C
You can only do two exercises for your triceps for the rest of your life. What are the two?
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B
Overhead tricep extension and dips. Yeah, two. That's.
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C
I was to say close grip, bench press. Close grip, bench press or overhead extension.
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B
Done.
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C
You agree?
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D
Yeah, Yeah, I like those. Just trying to think of anything else. Yeah, but you guys.
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C
Yeah, you only get two. You only get two for the rest of your life. Yeah, yeah, Those for sure.
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D
100% deep dips. My favorite.
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B
100%. All right, now let's talk about the squeeze part of a rep. So the squeeze is like when you're fully extended and you're contracting the muscle. Here's what that's good for. You come to me and tell me you have trouble feeling a muscle. We're going to focus on the squeeze. It's hard to feel a muscle really contract in the stretch position or mid range. If you have poor connection like your glutes or your quads or your chest or your back, I'm going to have you hold the squeeze and you will feel the muscle in the squeeze. So that's, that's the benefit right there. Don't avoid that. Especially for body parts where you're like, I don't feel my chest, I don't feel my back. I don't feel this muscle when I do these exercises or when I do squats. I don't feel my quads. Squeeze the hell out of your quads at the top of a squat and then see how you feel as you go through the set. Yeah, yeah. You'll really.
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C
Or just isometrics period. Even forget inside of a rep. I think isometrics on for that muscle group.
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B
Yeah.
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D
Even priming it is, is such a.
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C
Is such a great idea if you have poor connection there.
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B
For sure. Totally. Totally. And you're right. You know, as I think about it, bodybuilders are really good at playing with the. These, these different things.
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C
No, really good. I mean, I know we've had some examples that you highlighted where we have had some bodybuilders that have come in and they have terrible range of motion. I think that's an example of like when you totally. When you only train that way and neglect that. I would. I'm. I'm trying to think back to all my buddies that. That lifted with me that if they were like that, like, I mean. You lifted with Johnny last.
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B
Yeah. Oh, he's good.
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C
He's got.
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B
Oh, yeah. He plays full range of motion.
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C
Yeah, yeah.
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B
And again he's in. He's 40 something. He's been doing this for a long time. I think you start to figure it out.
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D
Yeah.
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B
You know. You know.
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C
Yeah, I think like. So I think, although I can't remember, to be honest with you, if I would consider him the majority. I think a majority, majority of bodybuilders tend to do a pretty good job of kind of doing all that. If anything, I think what they neglect or we neglect the most is. Is not training enough like a powerlifter does. Yeah, yeah. If like that's the part that we probably miss out on is just if.
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B
You ever want to see really crazy ranges of motion, watch the golden era bodybuilders.
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C
Yeah. A lot of times they were doing splits on the stage and.
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B
But just their ranges of motion on fly like laterals like we stop them here, man. Arnold's like way up here, you know, upright rows way up here, all the way down. They were, they were. They really played with crazy deep, full ranges of motion when you watch them live.
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C
Yeah.
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B
And you know, they, they obviously built incredible physiques with minimalist anabolics and compared to the, you know, the current ones. Yeah, yeah. And then lastly, it's pause, like pausing the rep. Now, a pause can happen at any point in the rep. It could happen at the bottom, in the middle, can happen at the top. Why would white. Why would I want to incorporate pausing? This is phenomenal for improving stability. Yeah. This is great for it. If there's a part of the rep where you suddenly lose strength, that's it. Or stability, Emphasize it. Then you grab a lighter weight, you get down in the hole or get down in the wrap and get to the point where you're like, this is where I lose stability. And then hold that and stay tight and hold it for 5 seconds, 6 seconds, 7 seconds, and then come out. Powerlifters love pause wraps for breaking through sticking points in their lifts. This I never utilized until I really started to train for, like, max lifts. And the first time I used this was on bench press because I just, when I got to the bottom of the bench was like, I just couldn't move it if I got it up after 3, 4 inches and I can move the weight. And I read Powerlifting usa, I think it was.
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D
Yeah.
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B
And it talked about one of the lifters, how they. And I didn't know this, but power lifters do this all the time. So I just started pausing my bench presses at my chest and it was months. It only took a few months before that became the strongest part. Yeah. Of my bench press. Yeah.
- [19:16]
D
Before that. It's like you don't realize how much momentum is incorporated in your lifts when you're just trying to get to the end result. And so, like, yeah, I used to just bounce the bar off my chest and, you know, do all those things when I was young because the whole goal was to how much I could load the bar with and get through the wrap. But then when you start kind of breaking it up, being a little more thoughtful man, you realize, like, how much force you're not producing, how much control you don't have until you really, like, isolate it.
- [19:48]
C
This is another reason why I absolutely love the Z press too, is because I think we are so weak and unstable in that, that full extension, overhead extension. And I, I always Z press with a 3 to 5 second hole at the top and stabilize the weight way above your head like that. I think the, the gains, the stability you get from that to control the overall benefit, posture wise, I think it's such a great movement for that. That exact. You're just humbling. You have To. I mean, you could be somebody whose shoulder press is easy 185 and have to get down to like 105. Yeah. Or less.
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B
Or less.
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C
A lot less. More like, you know, 60 pounds when you first started it. Just doing the bar and some tens on there is. Is work if you've never done.
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B
You know, now that I think about it, the, the neck. The. The last time I played with pausing was overhead holding. And that was because of Justin's influence because I didn't realize that it was unstable. So my shoulder press would be like all the way up and down, but when I got up to the top, I'd bring it down right away and then done. We were doing. You know, because of Justin in his programming, I was practicing walking with like a kettlebell or dumbbells and I realized that like once I locked my arm out, I was unstable. And so I just started to hold my presses at the top and I got great progress. Which brings us to this. If you suck at any of these, that's a hack for you. You do the one you suck at, you'll get great gains. So if you suck at the stretch, you suck at pausing, you suck at the squeeze. Focus on that. That's always true. It's always true that if you do the thing you suck at and you'll.
- [21:16]
C
Improve the most, especially advanced lifters.
- [21:18]
B
Yes.
- [21:18]
C
When you're. When you've been lifting for a long time and you find something, you just have to reframe it that way. Right. Because we, we all have a tendency to gravitate towards things we're good at, we like doing. But when you find the thing that you really suck at, that's where the real gold is total. That's where the novelty is. That's where the gains are. So. And it's hard to get gains when you've been doing this 10, 15, 20 years. And so it's like lean into those movements that you do and you're like, man, I really suck at this. Like, that's awesome. There's gains there.
- [21:44]
B
I got to tell you guys that the, the fior Sunday joggers have been dethroned. It's.
- [21:49]
D
Hey, you dethroned?
- [21:51]
B
Oh yeah.
- [21:52]
C
Please tell, please tell me you have at least three to four pairs.
- [21:54]
B
Cuz you've.
- [21:55]
C
I see them on you for I. For the last three weeks, I don't think I've seen a different pair.
- [21:59]
B
I love them.
- [22:01]
D
I love them like the, the amount of Steve Jobs, the turtlenecks. Yeah.
- [22:04]
C
Yeah. I better go to his house and see Closet like, think of. He's not wearing the same damn sweats.
- [22:08]
B
You know what it is? You know what it is? Is that they're. They're really comfortable, cozy, but they're like, the material is.
- [22:14]
C
They're thick and soft.
- [22:15]
B
Yeah, it's like thick and like. I don't know how you would. High quality. How would you describe it? Because they don't look like traditional sweats. They look like nicer. I don't know how to.
- [22:22]
D
Yeah, they're not too heavy where you get like super hot. Like some of those like sweats, you just like, I can't wear sweats.
- [22:28]
B
But this is it. This totally like Sunday joggers were at the top always. Now it's like second. Now it's always these. I know you got a couple.
- [22:35]
D
I feel you.
- [22:36]
C
Oh, yeah, no, I have three pair. I've got a blue pair, a black pair. So I like to get different colors. Yeah. And I have, I think that my favorite of the sand color ones, the.
- [22:42]
D
Brown ones, I, I have gray and black. Yeah.
- [22:45]
C
Oh, yeah. I don't have, I don't have gray. I need gray. I didn't know they had the gray, but I, the. I, I want another pair of black. Cuz I wear black a lot too, so.
- [22:52]
B
Love them, dude.
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C
I'm with you on that. Love them, love them, love them, love them.
- [22:54]
B
To work out with them, go out with them. They're great. No, Justin, you, you, you just had your birthday. How was your birthday?
- [23:00]
C
Did you get what you wanted?
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D
I mean, I don't. I. I got stuff, you know, Like, I'm just like, it's so.
- [23:09]
C
Are we not all there in our relationship where we just buy our own stuff and then we just.
- [23:12]
D
I'm waiting because it's all for me. I like experiences and going places like, and usually I'm just like. I tell Courtney, like, just take me somewhere, you know, and we'll do our thing. And that's like a gift to me. Like, stuff is like, I'm not interested in. There's nothing I could like, think of even right now. I'm like, oh, I need this. I want this.
- [23:33]
B
If you want something, you just get it.
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C
It's probably not your love language.
- [23:37]
D
It's not. Yeah.
- [23:37]
C
That's not what I. Yeah.
- [23:38]
B
What's your love language?
- [23:40]
D
Touch and time.
- [23:43]
B
Okay. Yeah. So touch you for a long time. Yeah. Such a long time. So what'd you get? Because you said there was a story about your birthday gift or something that happened. Did you say that?
- [23:53]
D
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. So there was a part of the gift that wasn't, like, an experience. This is a different experience. Courtney kind of, like, you know, gambled a little bit.
- [24:03]
C
Where were you?
- [24:04]
D
Well, no, I mean, like, like, on the gift.
- [24:06]
C
Oh.
- [24:06]
B
Oh.
- [24:06]
C
I was, like, gambling. You just go to Vegas. I appreciate it.
- [24:09]
D
I like it.
- [24:09]
B
Happy birthday. Yeah. So thousand on black.
- [24:12]
D
She kind of took it upon herself to. She bought us, like, this, signed us up for this dance at home. So, instructor, I'm gonna learn ballroom dance.
- [24:25]
C
That came to your house.
- [24:26]
D
Salsa. Well, yeah, you do it, like, with an instructor, and then you also do it virtually.
- [24:30]
E
Okay.
- [24:31]
D
So we kind of just started doing that, and, like, I'm, you know, shaking my hips, doing the thing. But, yeah, it was like. It's all new to me. I. I used to do swing dancing way back in the day.
- [24:45]
B
You did?
- [24:45]
D
I did.
- [24:46]
B
Yeah.
- [24:46]
C
So you were totally game for that being your birthday present. I'll be no mad if Katrina got me that from.
- [24:51]
B
No, I mean, I.
- [24:52]
D
Like, I said, she just thought of this and did it, and I was actually like, oh, that's a really. Just thoughtful thing. I guess.
- [24:59]
B
I would like this.
- [25:00]
E
Of course I do.
- [25:01]
C
Highlights how different we all are right there.
- [25:02]
B
I would never.
- [25:03]
C
I would. If Katrina's like, guess what I got you for your birthday?
- [25:06]
D
I know.
- [25:06]
C
That's why I thought you guys also. What?
- [25:10]
D
That's why I thought you guys would.
- [25:11]
B
Make fun of me.
- [25:11]
C
Are we divorcing?
- [25:14]
B
I would not like that. Unless Jess was like. And we're naked. All right. Yeah.
- [25:18]
D
Well, that's your home. I guess you could be. But I just. I look at it as a. It's another way for. Because for me, it's less of. I mean, we talk a lot, and we have, like, opportunities for that, but, like, to just hang out and. And it's not, like, something that's like, oh, well, tell me about your feelings. And, you know, all that stuff gets boring. So, like, let's. Let's move, you know, let's do things.
- [25:40]
B
Dirty dancing. Yeah. Hey, so hold on. Where did you do swing dancing? Where the heck do you do that?
- [25:45]
D
Oh, I did that.
- [25:45]
C
I. I will say this. If I were to learn something, swing would be something I would consider.
- [25:49]
D
It was cool.
- [25:50]
C
Like, I said, that would be cool.
- [25:51]
D
I used to bust it out every now and then at, like, some of the dances in high school, and people would be, like, tripping out, but.
- [25:57]
B
Oh, so it was way back then.
- [25:58]
D
It was way back then. And so I was like. It was kind of funny because I had this, like, other kind of identity for a while. I was like this rockabilly guy, you know, and like, I had like, flame shoes and, like, stupid clothes. Yeah, flame shoes. I had like. I had a big old pompadour.
- [26:14]
C
I remember the pompadour picture.
- [26:16]
B
And I had.
- [26:16]
D
I had the chain wallet.
- [26:18]
F
Wow.
- [26:18]
D
The whole thing.
- [26:19]
C
I did a chain wall for a while.
- [26:20]
D
I had an old truck. I had a 56 truck.
- [26:23]
B
You went all in.
- [26:24]
D
I was all in. And so I. I would go to shows and this was like when swing and. And rockabilly was, like, kind of popular for a while there. But yeah, I would go with my girlfriend at the time and then would just throw her around and, you know, spin and do the whole thing. West coast, like, swing stuff.
- [26:42]
B
Wow.
- [26:42]
D
Yeah.
- [26:42]
B
Wow.
- [26:43]
D
Yeah, I learned. I learned it. It was like we'd go down to this. This place down in Santa Cruz, and it was above this taqueria, and we'd learn from this lady that taught us.
- [26:52]
B
So. Wow. Yeah, that's pretty cool. I think a lot of. I mean, you either like that or you don't. You know what I mean? I. I could see why she got that for you. I know you. And it's like, he probably would like something like that.
- [27:03]
D
Yeah, I just like. Because she's not like that, I think it was like a stretch for her.
- [27:07]
B
Oh, that's nice.
- [27:07]
C
So that's interesting.
- [27:08]
D
So I. I really appreciated it.
- [27:10]
C
So that's not something that she would, like, totally be about.
- [27:13]
B
No.
- [27:14]
D
Like, you know, it's funny.
- [27:15]
C
Katrina would love that.
- [27:16]
D
Yeah, would love that.
- [27:18]
B
We.
- [27:18]
D
We've gone out and, you know, obviously, like, we, we go to, like, concerts and stuff, and we've danced together. But it's kind of funny because she has like a different pattern and I have a different pattern. So we'll be at, like, weddings, for instance, and we'll be like, dancing to something and she's like, kind of like, like bouncing a little bit, like more than me. And then so, like, we're like, off sync. We always laugh about it because I'm like, wait, you're way off. Like, so I'm hoping, like, this will, like, you know, get us a little more in tune.
- [27:48]
B
That's going to be great.
- [27:49]
C
Okay, so explain. So you. You meet with the instructor in person once, and then it goes virtual after that. Is that how it works?
- [27:55]
D
Yeah. So this person's in Santa Cruz. We're going to meet with them, we're going to go through it, and then, yeah, we can do like, follow ups virtually.
- [28:04]
C
Yeah.
- [28:05]
B
So you wait. Katrina's into dancing.
- [28:07]
C
Oh, yeah. So my best friend Justin, that, you know, his wife, like Katrina when we first. When he used to live with me, and they were for before we were all married. Yeah, the girls, this is Justin and I would stay home and play video games and send the wives off to go line dancing and salsa dancing and, yeah, they go do all that stuff. Katrina's dad, who's like 74, goes salsa dancing by himself at clubs all the time, picking up chicks.
- [28:35]
G
Wow.
- [28:35]
B
Yes, wow.
- [28:36]
C
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [28:37]
B
Cuz you, you. You don't dance very well. I've seen you move. I mean, I don't either.
- [28:42]
C
It's like the kettle call.
- [28:43]
B
I was gonna say easy, guy. I'm not trying to say, man. You and I dancing is like, like, are you guys listening to music?
- [28:50]
C
According to Katrina, there's a very big difference in my dance moves. Sober versus four drinks. She's like, four drinks, you can dance.
- [28:59]
B
Maybe. Maybe she's had four drinks. She has beer. She's got no problem telling me.
- [29:05]
E
I'm not.
- [29:06]
C
I can't dance. You know what I'm saying? She tells me, you know, Jessica, if she catches me dancing early, she'll come over and she'll like, start feeding me drinks to get going.
- [29:13]
B
So, you know, Jessica and I have never danced together, ever. Slow danced. We've slow danced. But it's such a wonderful thing we have in common. It's so wonderful. I, you know.
- [29:23]
C
You guys don't like to do anything.
- [29:24]
B
No, dude. I go to, like. You go to weddings and stuff, and everybody wants to dance and have, you know, I don't mind slow dancing. I'll do that. But, you know, all the dancing and stuff and, you know, if you, if you're married to somebody that likes to do that, that sucks.
- [29:35]
C
Oh, yeah, yeah.
- [29:36]
B
Because you don't want them to go out and dance by themselves. You got to go out there, then you're out there hating life because you like. But my wife is like, no, I don't like that. I don't want to dance. I'm like, really? So we'll just sit in the back and watch everyone else and. Yeah. Have a good time by ourselves.
- [29:48]
C
Yeah, I mean, I don't. I don't like to. I will. I do. And I tend to need to be loosened up with some alcohol a little bit to really get into it. I mean, Katrina and I, that was. I tell the story of when we first got together, we went out dancing together. So, I mean, I'm. I'm not. But I don't like it like you. I'm. I prefer not to. If I'm out and we're doing something, like, I'm not. Like, I'm fine sitting at the.
- [30:08]
B
You know who I like dancing with. I love dancing with my kids, but it's not. I'm not really dancing with him. I pick them up, I swing them. They'll stand on my feet, the whole thing, you know, a little.
- [30:17]
C
Yeah.
- [30:17]
B
But you won't catch me out there.
- [30:19]
D
Yeah.
- [30:19]
B
No way.
- [30:22]
D
I didn't realize, like, I know something and then I'll do it, like, just very occasionally. And then people trip out.
- [30:29]
B
You're the guy. Let me guess. You're the dude that will go on the dance floor and just throw splits out there.
- [30:34]
D
I don't do splits, dude.
- [30:36]
B
But you know what I mean? That's you, though.
- [30:37]
D
Yeah, but I'll do some. Some, like.
- [30:39]
B
You have a move. Yes. Move. Don't you?
- [30:41]
D
I mean, it's kind of like performing on St. What, too. I'll do stuff.
- [30:45]
B
What's your. What's your signature? You have a move, for sure. What's your signature?
- [30:47]
D
I do know.
- [30:48]
C
It's like a leg shake with a kick. Yeah, you got a leg shake with a kick.
- [30:53]
D
I used to do some Michael Jackson stuff.
- [30:56]
B
I do it, dude.
- [30:57]
D
I do it. When Michael Jackson was on, it was like. Dude was on, like, Donkey Kong. I do all the Michael Jackson.
- [31:04]
C
I didn't realize that. Courtney doesn't.
- [31:06]
B
I. I would.
- [31:07]
C
That's interesting that she's not, like, big into it.
- [31:09]
D
I mean, she's. She likes, you know, being around that. That scene.
- [31:13]
B
She.
- [31:13]
D
She goes dancing and all that, but she's not, like, super into it. She's not. Especially the structure of it, you know?
- [31:18]
C
Yeah. So she's not like. Like, Katrina will go line dancing, salsa dancing, all that stuff with, like, her friends or go. That's like their. They like to do.
- [31:25]
B
You know what sucks about all Adam is like. Well, I mean, we're. Okay. We're married now, but, like, dancing is very attractive to women.
- [31:31]
C
Oh, yeah.
- [31:31]
B
You can move.
- [31:32]
C
I'm.
- [31:32]
B
I'm.
- [31:33]
E
Yeah.
- [31:33]
C
Her dad is 74 and still be picking up, like, girls half his age at 74. Because he can. He can really dance.
- [31:39]
D
Fish in a barrel.
- [31:40]
B
You guys. Shut up, Dude.
- [31:45]
E
It's funny.
- [31:45]
B
Yeah.
- [31:46]
D
Because this is normal. Like, most dudes, like, they're embarrassed or they won't get into it. And so it's just like. It's easy, dude.
- [31:52]
B
Yeah. I just don't enjoy it.
- [31:53]
C
I'm not embarrassed.
- [31:54]
B
I don't care.
- [31:55]
C
My. My Buddy who have you met My. My buddy Mike that I drive with? Have you met him? He's like kind of a smaller, smaller frame guy. Blonde hair, blue eye, fair, pale skin. Like, he's. He's really good at salsa dancing.
- [32:08]
B
Okay.
- [32:08]
C
And like that's. And I feel like when you're like the. The pale white skinned dude that go like, if you're a chick that's in it, you're mopping up, bro.
- [32:17]
B
You're the only pale skinned white dude.
- [32:19]
C
In there that's salsa dancing or.
- [32:20]
B
For sure, for sure. That's. You're.
- [32:22]
C
You're picking up all day long.
- [32:23]
D
I mean, yeah, you guys got all this, you know, like, I need to make up for that. So that's.
- [32:28]
B
That's my move. Just.
- [32:29]
C
They start talking to. He's like, hold on a second.
- [32:32]
D
Let's go.
- [32:32]
B
I'll just grab.
- [32:35]
D
Watch what that kid do.
- [32:37]
C
Just watch. Watch the hips.
- [32:39]
B
Adam and I are like, oh, let's do this loud. Let's go outside and talk. Let's go have a conversation. Hey, speaking of hips.
- [32:44]
C
I get. All I could think about is on the elliptical, dude.
- [32:48]
D
Yeah.
- [32:49]
B
So what's up? So are you. So you're trying to do more cardio because you're just.
- [32:52]
C
I'm not doing so. I know. I did it. I did.
- [32:54]
B
Because we're so sedentary.
- [32:55]
D
That's all it is terrible, dude.
- [32:57]
C
I'm pushing calories really aggressively right now and to just to. Because I need in order to hit like 222, 30 plus in grams of protein, I've got to be up there in calories. And I'm just not moving enough to not put body fat on with that high a calorie. And I'm not eating like super lean. I'm. I'm not like tracking and measuring. I'm like, I'm eating, I'm enjoying. I'm having ribeye. I'm doing stuff like that. Right. And typically, I think I shared this with you off air. Like when I. When I reverse diet hip protein and I'm training like I am right now. I have this. I end up kind of just naturally kind of hit this Goldilocks zone where I'll lean out a little bit, I'll build muscle. And so I'm just getting bigger and just. And I'm building and I'm not really leaning out much. And so I think it's just because our inactivity so inactive.
- [33:44]
E
Yeah.
- [33:45]
C
I mean, I could.
- [33:45]
B
So I have two people know we're in here all day.
- [33:48]
C
Yeah. Yeah.
- [33:48]
B
Oh, we go for one walk. It's literally. How far is our walk? Embarrassing.
- [33:54]
C
It's not far enough. Because even when we do our walk and our day, our daily steps on. I'll only hit like on a normal day, 5,000 steps.
- [34:02]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [34:02]
C
So I have to get on there for a good 45 minutes to an hour of like walking or elliptical to push 8 to 10,000 steps. So that's what I'm doing is just to do that other. Otherwise I gotta really tighten the diet up and I'm just not in the mood to do that right now. Like, I'm, you know, I'm super.
- [34:18]
B
You'd rather. Plus you need. Plus it's good to move. Yeah. Plus it's good to move, which is good for you.
- [34:21]
C
Yeah, yeah. No, it's gonna facilitate recovery. It's good for my heart. It's all those things. And so it's not. I wouldn't. It's not cardio or it's like zone two type stuff. You know, it's. I'm walking on a, on a slight incline. I'm elliptical, just moving, doing this, adjusting.
- [34:35]
B
Everybody can see how good you dance.
- [34:36]
D
I know exactly.
- [34:37]
B
There's a taste.
- [34:38]
D
You're suppressing it. Adam, I've seen you on that elliptical, dude.
- [34:44]
B
You know, my, my. Oh, speaking of hidden protein, are you using Chris Power to try and hit that?
- [34:48]
C
Oh, yeah, no. Those have become daily snacks for me for sure. In fact, I've gone through. I got to see if we have more in the back because I've gone through all my favorite flavors.
- [34:56]
B
The only.
- [34:57]
C
I like. I love every flavor. I'm not the big fan of the cinnamon ones.
- [35:00]
B
Oh, sweet. Yeah, it's because the other ones are all savory.
- [35:02]
E
Yeah, they're all.
- [35:03]
C
I like all the other ones. All the other ones I love. And cinnamon is not bad because I've heard other people on the staff and stuff like cinnamon. It's just that when I have a chip, it's like. It's crunchy. Yeah, well, no, I mean it's. That's like a graham cracker taste to me.
- [35:17]
B
Yeah.
- [35:18]
C
And I want like a salty sesame seed sea salt.
- [35:22]
E
Those cheddar ones.
- [35:23]
B
How do you keep the staff from medium? Are you put. Did you put on the box from Adam only?
- [35:27]
C
No. What I do is I just grab like five, six at a time, I throw them in my gym bag and.
- [35:30]
B
Then cuz they're gone. They don't. Last year the team just crushes them. Oh, I know. Cold will eat like four.
- [35:37]
D
I know.
- [35:37]
C
I Actually, will. I'll pair it with like, that and, like, jerky. And I'm get. It's like a high. You have 26 grams coming from the Chris Power and then some jerky. Another 20, 30 grams.
- [35:47]
B
50 grams.
- [35:48]
C
Right? 50 something grams. Something I can eat while I'm driving.
- [35:50]
D
Well, I've been loving my kids, like, paying attention to all those numbers of protein. And then they'll see, you know, that there's 26 grams something of protein. So they're eating all the bags, like, and it's gone.
- [36:03]
B
You got teenage boys, dude.
- [36:04]
D
Dude, I just can't. I can't compete with.
- [36:06]
B
All right, we. Are we gonna talk about the Epstein stuff?
- [36:09]
C
Oh, God.
- [36:11]
H
Three.
- [36:12]
C
What was it? Three thousand documents?
- [36:15]
B
Can.
- [36:15]
D
I just thought it was like, three million.
- [36:16]
C
Hey, okay, wait, before you get into it, because I heard a funny thing and it was a comedian, though, so I don't know if it's true that the. The government had used word to redact a lot of the things. So all you had to do was, like, upload it to unredacted.
- [36:31]
B
I didn't know that.
- [36:32]
C
Yeah, I don't know if this is true. I don't know.
- [36:34]
A
I heard something like that.
- [36:35]
C
Yeah, so I heard.
- [36:36]
D
I heard like, something about the black.
- [36:38]
C
That's.
- [36:39]
D
That Markout was like.
- [36:40]
C
It was done in word, and so you could just upload the file to Word and then. And then. And then.
- [36:44]
A
Maybe they did that intentionally.
- [36:46]
B
Yeah, right.
- [36:47]
D
You know, it's all intentional. It's no accident.
- [36:51]
B
I don't want to get in too much detail because it's so dark. I can't spend too much time reading into some of the stuff because it's so dark.
- [36:59]
C
But yet you do, though.
- [37:00]
B
Listen, the conspiracy theorists.
- [37:02]
D
Well, I gotta see is. Wake up, dude. Like, you know, stop calling people conspiracy theorists.
- [37:06]
B
Listen, listen, It's. This is. It seems like there is literally a satanic cult that runs the world. How crazy does that sound that I just said that?
- [37:17]
C
Here's.
- [37:17]
B
Read the stuff. Here's the most powerful people in the world. And I don't care what side of the aisle you're on. It's Republicans, Democrats, it's religious leaders. It's billionaires.
- [37:26]
D
It's a biotech male economy.
- [37:28]
B
And they're not. It's like, not just sex trafficking. It's dark satanic ritual stuff.
- [37:33]
D
Yes, it is.
- [37:34]
B
It is. Epstein's bank account was named Ball. Did you see that? Yeah. You guys, you know what Ball is, Doug? That's one of the ancient, like, false gods of the Old Testament. It's actually a demon. You're actually worshiping a demon. He named his bank account that. It's crazy.
- [37:49]
C
So you need to still go watch the 1975 Netflix documentary, because that's what's given me balance to all this stuff. Is that. Is that this has been. What you're talking about right now is not new news. This has been happening forever.
- [38:05]
B
Since the beginning.
- [38:06]
C
Since the beginning, yes.
- [38:07]
D
Okay, but everybody's just discarded it.
- [38:09]
C
Well, I mean. Well, now it's just coming to your defense. I agree. Here's. Here's where I'll get back. Get behind what you're saying, Justin, which is everybody needs to calm down with the calling, the conspiracy theories. People like, people that have been saying this for a long time. Like, I'm. I'm over that too. I'm over. I'm over.
- [38:26]
D
I'm more like choke. Choke the snake's head. Stop, like, you know, infighting. Yeah, it's. It's just so, like, ridiculous to me what we fight about. And it's like, you see stuff like this and nobody's getting arrested and nobody's paying.
- [38:41]
B
Justin, what do you do? It's everyone I know, so what do you do?
- [38:45]
D
You. Exactly.
- [38:46]
B
Dude, this is.
- [38:47]
D
It's a conundrum.
- [38:48]
B
No, dude, listen, you may. You may or may not believe in God and the devil, but they sure do. They sure do. You read some of the stuff that they are talking about, what they're doing, and it's like. It is wild. It's crazy. And it's like people. People you wouldn't even think are in there.
- [39:07]
C
Did you see that?
- [39:07]
B
Peter Atia's emails. Did you see that?
- [39:09]
C
Thousand of them. A thousand, dude.
- [39:12]
F
Wow.
- [39:13]
D
I wouldn't have seen that coming. I have no idea.
- [39:15]
B
Oh, yeah, dude.
- [39:16]
D
You want named on that?
- [39:17]
B
Like, rise and fall. Well, he's getting crushed.
- [39:19]
C
Now, that. What makes me so curious about things like that is, like, especially because that's. I would consider that in our space. Yeah, it's. It's interesting to me. We've been doing this for a really long time. I'd like to think that we're. Have a pretty good pulse of our space. It's always interesting to me when somebody like him comes up out of nowhere and is like, on 60 Minutes uber famous out of nowhere, and he's saying smart stuff, but he's saying anything different than what we've been talking about for 10 years. Like, that's the part I'm always interested in. These people that are saying a lot of things that we've been saying forever.
- [39:52]
B
Yeah.
- [39:53]
C
But all of a sudden they're on 60 Minutes and they're all over the news, and they're on a number one podcast, and they're, like, rubbing elbows with all these important. That's interesting to me. And it makes me wonder about a lot of other people who we've seen that happen with if.
- [40:07]
B
If it's all true. If it's all true. Because there's so, like, a big part of me is like, it can't be true, but it keeps coming out. But if. If it's true. What you're looking at are the people that run Hollywood. Banking system, governments, biotech, tech. So for you to succeed at the upper. At the top level, in any of those spaces, you have these gatekeepers that are a part of this group.
- [40:34]
C
Yeah, you gotta fall 50 Cent, dude.
- [40:35]
B
That's your.
- [40:36]
C
You're gonna follow any rap stars that are dropping bombs or you fall 50 cent. 50 cents. Been on this stuff.
- [40:41]
D
He's gonna be making documentary after documentary after documentary. After all this is.
- [40:44]
C
Did you send Cat Williams a bit. Been talking, been calling this.
- [40:47]
B
What's crazy to me is that you have this. Because we'll stay on the spiritual side again, you can believe it or not, but they. They definitely do. There's a revival that's happening on the good side, and it's one of the craziest, biggest revivals we've seen in modern history. And it's very unique because it's young men in particular. Simultaneously, you have all this other stuff coming out. So if you believe in this stuff, there seem. This seems to be like a spiritual war is heating up. So where's it go?
- [41:10]
C
Yeah.
- [41:11]
B
Yeah.
- [41:12]
C
I think for good balance, I think everybody should watch the documentary that I keep talking about because it scared everybody. Yeah. I just think that the thing that. The thing that is more unique today than anything else, in my opinion, is not any of the stuff that we're talking about right now. All that stuff has been happening forever.
- [41:27]
B
Yeah. But every. Nobody's ever thought it was real, though.
- [41:30]
C
Yeah. You think? Nobody has ever. Of course, there's always mainstream. It's only mainstream because everybody. Everything is mainstream because everybody's on Twitter and social media now.
- [41:40]
B
That's.
- [41:40]
C
That's it. That's the only difference. The only difference is the conspiracy theorists have a louder voice and can talk more about it. I mean, people have been saying this stuff forever. It's just that it's in our face 247 on these feeds. And so everybody's an alarmist about Every single thing. But if you just. That's why that documentary was so good for me to watch. I just went like, man, it was. I would way rather be here today than with all this crazy you're talking about than 1975 with nuclear bombs getting ready to go off on us with freaking serial killers happening.
- [42:13]
B
It seems like now we're. We obviously know a lot more stuff.
- [42:16]
C
Yeah.
- [42:16]
B
This is just crazy to me, you guys. This is just wild. Since when did we ever see emails and documents that were this.
- [42:23]
C
So the.
- [42:23]
B
Between all these power.
- [42:24]
C
So the. The pot. Here's a positive. Okay. The positive side of this is that it is much harder for these evil people to hide.
- [42:29]
B
Yeah.
- [42:30]
C
Than it was in 1975. In 1975, it was much easier for these people to hide and not be known about in the secret societ. And the control and the power was easier because there was only a few media outlets they had to control where now with this ability that everybody has their phone and can be an investigator and like.
- [42:49]
D
And it's almost more disheartening, though, because nobody's paying the consequence for it.
- [42:55]
C
Well, because you. Only because, you know, ignorance is bliss.
- [42:58]
D
Well, that's why they.
- [43:00]
B
Yeah.
- [43:00]
D
Yes and no. Like, I think back then there'd be examples they'd make of people and they'd get arrested. But it's like the ones in your government.
- [43:08]
C
Yeah, but.
- [43:08]
B
Yeah.
- [43:09]
D
You don't have faith in your government now.
- [43:10]
C
I mean, 1975, there was no faith in the government. I'm not a crook. This is water games.
- [43:16]
D
But there was sides that. There were no sides that didn't.
- [43:18]
B
Yeah.
- [43:19]
C
Yeah. But that was a narrative. They wanted you to know you're right.
- [43:21]
D
Right.
- [43:22]
B
Right.
- [43:22]
C
That's the narrative. They wanted you. They made you feel like you were getting wins. They made you feel like there was.
- [43:26]
B
A. I think that's the point Justin's making is that you felt better because.
- [43:30]
C
Yeah. And my point is ignorance.
- [43:32]
D
There's an outcome.
- [43:33]
C
It's like.
- [43:34]
E
Yeah.
- [43:35]
C
So. So it's like, okay, so do you feel better with it all happening, but you being blind to it? And so you feel better and go to bed every night and you think it's. Or do you. Would you rather be out in the open?
- [43:46]
B
It's so much like that scene in the Matrix where. That scene in the Matrix where. That one.
- [43:49]
C
Yeah.
- [43:49]
B
He gets unplugged and he makes a deal with the. With the machines and he goes. He wants to forget everything. He wants to go back in the Matrix. He wants to be rich.
- [43:57]
C
Yeah.
- [43:58]
B
Because the real world was just so terrible. So terrible.
- [44:00]
C
Yeah.
- [44:00]
B
Yeah. And I can't. I mean, I. I get it. I get it.
- [44:03]
C
That's exactly what we're talking about.
- [44:04]
D
Curtain's been, you know, like, it's been opened up. And so, you know, we've got this insight now with how the real power dynamic works, you know, and who's really, like, pulling the strings. And so, I don't know, like, is that good? Is that bad? Like, it's. It's. I'm indifferent to it. It's just like it's one of those things. Like it's nothing until somebody actually goes to jail.
- [44:28]
C
I mean, you can argue both sides. Like. Like, Sal brings up the point how dangerous it is for nobody to trust government. Right. Like, that's a. That's a dangerous place to be. But then you could also say that if there's anything that was ever going to unify us, it would be things like this coming out, that both sides are evil and bad and us. And then all of us going, like.
- [44:48]
B
Listen, power vacuums are never good. So it's like, you know, what ends up happening when you. Let's say look at every revolution has ever happened like this. Let's say we threw every stage for whatever reason, we just got rid of everybody in power, started over. You have this power vacuum, and the people that will come up and take it probably not good either. So I don't know. That's why I'm like. I almost feel like this, this. The way that they're releasing these is to desensitize everybody and also to get everybody kind of frozen where you're just. There's inact, there's inaction. Like, what do we. Like, what do we do with this? Oh, man.
- [45:19]
D
Yeah. It's a bit of a playbook, though. Like, to your point is to get people to not trust anything, Right? Like, that's, That's. That's a dangerous society.
- [45:28]
C
I mean, obviously people are calling for stuff to get done here, but are emails enough to incriminate somebody?
- [45:35]
B
No, but there's a lot of stuff they didn't release. There's a lot of videos.
- [45:37]
D
Well, there's a picture.
- [45:38]
C
There's a lot more.
- [45:39]
D
Yeah, that was just. Honestly, that was a retaliation and. And you see what's.
- [45:45]
B
Move.
- [45:46]
D
Watch what's happening next and where we're moving next, you know, potentially for war.
- [45:51]
B
Yeah, some people.
- [45:52]
D
If that happens and, you know. For sure.
- [45:56]
C
Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I'm super skeptical of, like.
- [45:58]
B
I would have never guess.
- [45:59]
C
Super skeptical of, like, why These people. Why this? Why now? For that exact reason. It's like, why not all of it at once?
- [46:05]
B
Because they. They know what they put out, right? They know what they're releasing. So what are they not releasing? I. I just think it's crazy that it. Had you told me 15 years ago, Alex Jones would be right a lot. I would have been like, get out of my face face. I know, but he keeps coming out to be. Remember that video? He really. It was a long time ago where he filmed that, like, ritual group with those elites, and they're like, yeah, worshiping this big owl statue. That was. That's really.
- [46:30]
D
In Grove.
- [46:31]
B
Yeah, Bohemian Grove. Yeah. It was real.
- [46:33]
D
It is real.
- [46:33]
B
That was all real, dude.
- [46:35]
D
Agent provocateurs real. Like, all that stuff's real. It's just fine. Yeah. These are all, like, parts of society people just don't want to acknowledge because it's like, it's. You just want to go about your day and, like, work and do the thing and contribute and just hope things are working. But it's like, you know, once you see all this, it is a bit disheartening.
- [46:55]
B
Totally, Totally. Speaking of disheartening, how's. You were talking about an injury you had earlier. I want to hear what you did.
- [47:01]
D
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I was. Yeah.
- [47:03]
C
A couple weeks ago now, right?
- [47:05]
D
Yeah, it was probably two weeks ago. And, dude, I think that's the one thing that I've. I've. I could pinpoint. Like, I feel older. Like, I do feel like it's different now the way that, like, my body still holds on to this, like, injury, Injury, pain. Like, I used to just bounce right back. Everything was cool. And it was the. The worst part is it wasn't like, a real injury. It was like. It's like a deep core strain to where it's like, you know, I feel unstable around my hips and lower back and. And what'd you do? So it was a reaction. I was going really fast, like, because I was bored all day. I'm trying to teach my ton to snowboard. And, like, he just learned. And so I'm, like, going really slow and, like, on a snowboard, it's brutal because, like, you. You just burn your legs up, like, going that speed and, like, having to stand and wait and all that kind of stuff. So it was, like, one of the last runs, and I'm going down this village run, and. And it's, like, kind of flat, and. And I'm just picking up all the speed because it's like ice and and it's not like, you know, like, soft snow at all. And I go off trail, and so I go off trail and then I'm gonna kind of weave back and. And I. I saw an opening where I could weave back, and I didn't see that. There was, like, all these mogul and jumps, like, in between to get back to the trail. And I'm like, boom. I'm going, like, really fast, like, right into it. And so I'm having to, like. I don't know if you ever seen, like, motocross where they go over those. Like, yeah, like, I'm doing that. But, like, literally, I thought I was gonna eat and, like, I did. I was like, how am I gonna crash?
- [48:38]
B
Should I roll?
- [48:38]
D
Like, I'm thinking about all this as I'm, like, going over them because, like, I'm hitting it and I'm like, my body's doing all this and it, like, trying to, like, over. I was like, over correcting and tightening everything. And then I landed and I'm like, oh. And I kept going back down to. To the end and realized that, oh, my God, I, like, strained everything really bad. It was just literally, like, my body holding my spine together. And like, I heard it, you know?
- [49:07]
B
What muscles do you think you pull? Like, everything, dude. That's when you get your deep core messed up. It's. Now you can't do nothing.
- [49:16]
C
Yeah, yeah.
- [49:17]
D
Like, I, like, I saw.
- [49:17]
E
I'm.
- [49:18]
D
I'm doing like, hip bridges. I'm doing like, bird dogs. The weakest workouts you've ever seen, dude.
- [49:25]
C
Now, now, now going into that, looking back, because I know, at least in my case, every time I've done this, because I've done this so many times, is I'm not training appropriately for what I'm about to go do, you know? And that's the big difference. It's less about that we're older. It's just that we just don't do any of that stuff anymore.
- [49:43]
D
And then I put gasoline on it without necessarily.
- [49:46]
C
You could do. He could be doing. He could be doing, like. And that's why it's interesting to hear him do it. Because if all of us. He's the best when it comes to, like, rotational strength and core strength and like, anti rotational stuff.
- [49:57]
B
You and I probably would have herniated a disc or something.
- [49:59]
C
Yeah, yeah. I've. I've just learned. I just don't.
- [50:01]
D
I just overcorrected, like, so hard.
- [50:04]
C
My. My big. I'm so angry still about my pect tear because I did all the mobility work for my lower body because I was wakeboarding, and so I'm just. I'm not even thinking about my upper body. I'm thinking about my lower body. You know, I'm jumping, I'm carving, I'm turning. I'm doing all this stuff. Like, it's. I need my hips, my ankles, my knees. That needs to be. And I didn't address my upper body. And so it was like, on the weakest little fall, it just tore my pack and I went, what an. Move to, you know, do all the work in my lower body and to not address my upper body and then to go out and tear my pec on, like a week.
- [50:39]
B
Are you doing, like, the BPC and all that now?
- [50:41]
D
Well, yeah, so that's. I'm just gonna. I just started that protocol, and I'm gonna see if that.
- [50:45]
B
I'm sure it may. It helps it fast. Yeah. My cousin. I was just talking to one of my cousins who had an ankle, was just Ankle mobility was bad and it was hurting. He started using bpc. He's like, dude, is this stuff like. Like, how does this work? Yeah, my ankle feels fine.
- [51:00]
D
Yeah. I think I actually might just go to dumbbells and suspension trainer and like, I. I might do a. A phase of that, like, for a month or so.
- [51:08]
B
That's good.
- [51:08]
D
Just get back to like, well, I've got your.
- [51:11]
C
Your. Your peptides finally handled 15 companies later and having conversations with.
- [51:17]
D
Hallelujah.
- [51:18]
C
Yeah.
- [51:18]
B
So finally we're working with. We're finally found a better company.
- [51:23]
C
Yeah. No, the thing that was the most difficult part for me was one, the black eye that I felt like the partnership with Transcend ended up being for us as a brand to the point where, you know, there was lots of discussion about not doing anything in that space at all. Problem with that is that we have so many people that utilize peptides and. And HRT and stuff like that, that I feel also, like, obligated, like, we're doing a disservice to them to not find a good brand. And I went through it. So in our. In our mind, pump hormones, you'll see like, just threads of people shouting out names and brands and companies. And I went through all the biggest, most reputable companies out there and still was like, I. I didn't feel anything until we met Phil. And then when we met Phil and sat down, talked. And the thing that. That was so important to me was all the negative things that we got was the pushiness on the sales side, the cost, the cost Right.
- [52:23]
B
Per.
- [52:24]
C
Everything that was on there was just, like, super expensive. The delay to get medications, the lack of communication to an actual doctor. So these are all things, like, I had to solve all of those if we were going to go with anybody. And so I feel really good about that now because all of those boxes are checked. And so, you know, the official announcement will come out in the MP Hormones forum, so I'll probably be doing that later tonight.
- [52:57]
B
Are we linked up to them now?
- [52:58]
C
No, no, we're not. I mean, actually, by the time this episode goes live. Yes, but I mean, if you want to know what that is, go to our. Our Facebook forum, MP Hormones. You'll see the official announcement in there where we'll have links and everything going on.
- [53:11]
F
Yes.
- [53:11]
A
Mindful Pump Hormones.
- [53:12]
B
Okay. The page MP Hormones, Mphormones.com is our link.
- [53:16]
E
Yes.
- [53:16]
B
To go. That'll. That'll. Oh.
- [53:18]
C
Oh, the Facebook form is not MP Hormones.
- [53:20]
A
No, it's Mind Pump Hormone.
- [53:21]
B
No, Our link is mphormones.com. if you go there, then you can use.
- [53:24]
C
I thought our forum was labeled that also.
- [53:26]
A
No.
- [53:26]
C
Oh, I was just on there yesterday. Said MP Hormones on it. So that's weird. So maybe that the whole Facebook name and link is what you're saying, but on the actual logo of it, it says MP Hormones. So that's something.
- [53:38]
A
Yeah, that's the logo only.
- [53:39]
C
Yeah.
- [53:40]
G
Yeah.
- [53:40]
B
Okay, good.
- [53:41]
C
Well, that's.
- [53:41]
B
That's. They're good. And they're. They're. The prices are ridiculous. Yeah. Ridiculous. And a good way. In a good way. We recorded an episode with them, and he told us the actual cost of these things. Yeah. And I can't believe how much they get marked up with other companies, which is kind of astonishing. So. And there they have no salespeople. It's only Doctors.
- [54:03]
C
Yeah. Yeah. I love that. I love that. The membership includes quarterly meetings with a doctor. Every patient meets with a doctor. It's not. They have no sales reps. The prices are way less. You're within 48 to 72 hours. You're with the doctor within 48 to 72 hours, the medication is at your doorstep. I mean, that stuff was just. Those were the things that. I was just, like, more concerned about that. And for the audience that cares, I mean, this is by far one of the smallest offers to us. I didn't want any ties to commissions or sales or anything like that whatsoever. The way we wanted to structure the partnership is that, listen, we have a huge audience. There's a lot of people that use this stuff. We do not want to be motivated by sales or tied to that whatsoever. And so there were a lot of offers on the table that were a lot more money, but there was no way we were going to do business unless we could solve those things. And so I feel really good about it and I'm glad that. I mean, I apologize to the people that went through all the shit that they went through with Transcend and how long it took, but I didn't want to just sign with the first company. So I feel really good about what we're doing now. So that's exciting.
- [55:19]
B
Zebiotics is the world's first pre alcohol probiotic drink that's been genetically engineered. In other words, this bacteria has been modified to break down one of the toxic byproducts of alcohol consumption. In other words, when you drink alcohol in the gut, some of it gets converted to a toxic byproduct. Well, you drink Zebiotics beforehand and these fun bacteria sit in your gut and break it down. So you drink this, then you drink, you feel way better. I never go out drinking with my friends without Zbiotics. Now go check them out. Get yourself 15% off. Go to zbiotics.com mindpump26 that's Z-B-I-O-T-I C S.com Again, mindpump26. Use the code mindpump26 to get the 15% off. Back to the show.
- [56:14]
A
Our first caller is Darren from Ontario.
- [56:17]
C
Hey, Darren, how you doing? Darren, how you doing?
- [56:20]
B
Good. How can we help you?
- [56:24]
H
So I'll start off with my email, basically. I hope you're all doing well. I've been reaching, reaching out because I need some expert advice. Hitting a really heavy plateau. 47, soon to be 48 and been working out for years lately, just, oh, geez, you know what, it's just basically that 47, 48, I'm trying to figure.
- [56:43]
C
Out what to do.
- [56:44]
H
I've tried every routine I can think of, every supplement I can think of, and I don't feel I'm getting the gains. But I know for a fact that as you get older, it's more difficult.
- [56:54]
B
Right.
- [56:55]
H
So I don't know where to go. I don't know what else to do.
- [56:58]
B
All right, well, let's dive in a little bit and see what you're doing. So let's talk to start with diet, what does that look like?
- [57:05]
H
I currently, I have gallstones. So the amount of food I can eat, how often I can eat is limited because it just causes pain. So I try to get the protein in. I try to get at least 150 in a day, 150 grams, but it is not easy. And I don't know if it's just poor choice of food or whatnot, but diet does need work.
- [57:24]
B
Okay. And is just, is just low fat, high protein okay for you or is it, is it like what, what is? Because I know typically it's fat. Okay, so all protein bothers you?
- [57:34]
H
It's not all protein. It's just, it takes. It's harder to digest, to digest.
- [57:39]
B
Okay.
- [57:39]
H
So I try to do basic proteins.
- [57:42]
B
And you use digestive enzymes when you eat fats?
- [57:46]
E
Yes.
- [57:47]
C
Yeah.
- [57:47]
B
Okay, good.
- [57:48]
H
Bile salts, I believe is one of them.
- [57:49]
B
Yeah. Good. Okay, so lean proteins are typically good with gallstones, in my experience. And protein shakes, does those work for you?
- [57:56]
E
Yep.
- [57:56]
H
Those I have no issue with.
- [57:57]
B
Okay, good. So. And what's your target body weight?
- [58:01]
H
It's like 190.
- [58:03]
B
Okay. With adding another shake be. Okay. Like a 40 gram shake. Okay. So I would start there with your diet. Do you know what your calories look like?
- [58:12]
H
No, I don't track macros.
- [58:14]
C
That crazy.
- [58:14]
B
Okay. And then. And the progress you're looking for is muscle building. Is it fat loss?
- [58:19]
H
For the longest time it was muscle building, but like I said, I'm getting to the higher ages, so I just want strength gains and longevity. Like, so I've done several tough mudders, I've done the Spartan beast. I've done a lot of OCRs, so I need running in it as well. So I know the muscle gain. You guys had a podcast, like beginning of January where you were mentioning about trying to stay a runner and big at the same time is almost impossible. So I'm kind of at the point now where I'm just like, good enough to be healthy, good enough to have some size, good enough to be in shape.
- [58:51]
B
Okay. So this would be a nice mix program. How many days a week are you training now? And what does that look like?
- [58:56]
H
I do ppl right now. And one day is a run.
- [59:00]
B
And that's so four days. So four days a week of lifting weights, plus one day of strength training.
- [59:04]
H
No, three days lifting and one day running.
- [59:06]
B
Oh, that's only four. Well, that's not bad.
- [59:08]
C
Yeah, Yeah, I can do more.
- [59:10]
E
I've just.
- [59:10]
H
That's, that's the current routine.
- [59:12]
C
How's your activity outside of those exercise days? Like, what. Do you ever see your steps? Like, are you active throughout the day?
- [59:19]
B
The.
- [59:19]
H
I work Friday, Saturday, Sunday, 12 hours. And I'm usually putting in 15000 steps.
- [59:23]
C
Okay. You move a lot. Okay. That's good.
- [59:24]
B
And then tell me about the ppl. How long are you in the gym and what are you doing?
- [59:29]
H
Usually 45 to an hour. 15. And it's your basic AI generated routine. It's not the best. I'm going to be honest with you.
- [59:38]
B
Yeah. So two things I would do right out the gates is I would. I would have you switch to a different program. You can keep the running. I would do something like maps 15 which is daily but short. And I would bump the protein. But tracking might be something you might want to start doing. Tracking your calories and macros just to see where you're at. Because otherwise it's kind of a guessing game.
- [59:59]
C
Well yeah. This is why this is so important Sal too is that if you're doing things like tough mudders and Spartans and you're running and you're low protein and you're low calorie. This is like a recipe for a hard plateau because then the body is not getting enough of the fuel that it needs to build and. And nutrients it needs to build muscle. It's barely getting enough fuel to do all the activity that you're doing. And so it's just hanging on. And so that's. And so figuring that out would really help because then it would be like. Like. Let's just take an example. Like if. If I find out we actually tracked and we find out you're eating130.120 to 130 grams of protein a day and you're only eating 2100 to 2300 calories and you're stepping as much as you are doing. We're. We're at a hard plateau and we need a reverse diet. Like I've got a. We've gotta. We gotta back off all the volume. We got to slowly increase calories. We gotta try and get the protein up and we got to build some muscle if we want to speed your metabolism up. Otherwise that's what's going on. And that's super common by the way is like somebody finds what. And I just gave some random numbers. It could still even be higher than that. And we need to do that. But like that's typically when I hear somebody is doing all those as. As active as you are training what you're doing right now. If we're struggling with protein intake and we're. Our calories are low. That is like our recipe for like just your body kind of staying right there.
- [61:19]
B
And I wouldn't be surprised if the if a Maps 15 protocol, actually, I think that's probably gonna. You're gonna see some strength gains from doing that.
- [61:26]
C
Just that alone. Yeah, ppl and adding your protein, ppl.
- [61:29]
B
Is okay, but you're, you know, high volume once a week versus volume spread out throughout the whole week. And with active individuals, these kind of small, short, daily strength training workouts seem to work a lot better. They just do. And people just tend to way better progress with something like that. So I'll send you that program and you can follow that. And you have a home gym or you go, you go to the gym.
- [61:50]
H
I got a full home gym, so I'm basically on my own. I don't have the group of people to help push. So some days it's difficult, but I, I just, you know, I, I do what I can because I know I need to.
- [62:00]
B
Oh, you'll love it.
- [62:01]
C
That's better.
- [62:01]
B
You'll love it.
- [62:02]
C
That's better.
- [62:02]
B
Yeah, it's two, it's two lifts a day. Yeah, you go in there and you do two lifts. You get out every day.
- [62:06]
C
Yeah, I, I honestly think switching.
- [62:08]
E
That's not an issue at all.
- [62:10]
C
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Maps 15 bump the, the protein shake in there. I think you should see a difference just from that alone.
- [62:16]
B
Yeah.
- [62:16]
C
And then, and then I would, I would track to get an idea where we're at calorie wise. Darren, are you in our forum too or.
- [62:21]
E
No?
- [62:23]
H
No, I'm not.
- [62:23]
C
I'm gonna have Doug put you in our private forum and then I, I love an update from. Yeah, so we'll send the program over to you, get you in the forum, and then just give us kind of an update after a couple weeks of following the program, bumping the protein, and then we'll kind of see where you're at from there and then we can make adjustments.
- [62:39]
B
And Darren, if you want something more individualized, if you want some coaching through, send us a message and I'll get one of my coaches online with a much larger investment. But they're there with you the whole time individualizing it and that's always, of course, the best option. But you let us know if that's something you're interested in. Otherwise I'd go mass 15 protein and you should see strength gains within two weeks if it's working. That's what you'll see. Perfect.
- [63:02]
H
So double double shakes and maps 15. I can definitely handle that.
- [63:05]
B
All right, dude.
- [63:06]
E
Okay, cool.
- [63:06]
B
I'll send that to you.
- [63:07]
C
Yeah, yeah. Check in with us in the forum, brother.
- [63:09]
B
I will.
- [63:10]
H
I appreciate everything you guys do been listening to you for a year, so thank you.
- [63:12]
C
Right on, Derek.
- [63:13]
B
Got it. You know, with this, with the. It's interesting, right? When you look at the data on strength training, when even the one, the volume's controlled, doing it all in one workout versus two and three, you tend to see better gains even in the controlled data with more frequent. Split it up. Yeah, splitting it up. But in my experience, it's even better than that. People tend to be more consistent, they tend to be less fatigued. It works with people's schedules better, builds better behaviors. And I, I believe as you get older, it becomes even more valuable because fatigue sets in so much. If I'm doing 15 sets in one workout versus five set, three workouts or even, you know, two sets, you know, five workouts or whatever.
- [63:51]
D
I think, I think really like our environment has impacted this a lot. I think back in the day, you know, it might have made more sense to, to dedicate this hour to two hours at the gym. But now, you know, with everybody's lifestyle like this makes so much more sense to. He's already not impede on it.
- [64:08]
C
I'd bet my last dollar it's what I said. Yeah, protein low protein, low calorie, probably lots of activity.
- [64:15]
B
Said the gallbladder stone thing. So, yeah, he's not, he's not eating enough.
- [64:18]
C
Well, yeah, he said he tries to hit 150, which tells if it's probably closer to 120, which means he's probably 120 or less many days, which means he's probably pretty low calorie too. He's stepping 15,000 steps a day. He's running one day a week and he's doing a push pull routine that takes an hour long. Oh, yeah, I guarantee he's, he's that and that and that. Let's just say his, his diet is clean and perfect on those days. And then occasionally he has something over that's not good for him, and he knows that and that's just a recipe for your body just kind of staying right there. You're not lean, you're not leaning out, you're not building any muscle, you're not seeing any results. But he's sustaining. He's able to do the stuff he's doing, but he's not, he's not getting the change he wants. I'm willing to bet he, he landing in the lower 2000 calorie range, maybe mid or really low on the days he eats well. And then when he days when he kind of goes.
- [65:11]
B
But it Averages out to what you're saying.
- [65:12]
C
Exactly, exactly.
- [65:14]
A
Our next caller is Craig from Georgia.
- [65:16]
C
What's up, Craig? How you doing, Craig?
- [65:17]
G
Hey, how's it going guys?
- [65:19]
C
How you doing?
- [65:20]
B
Good man. How can we help you?
- [65:22]
G
Doing pretty good, you know, first of all, thanks for everything you guys do. I kind of think of myself as an OG. I've been listening probably since 2017 or so. Maybe not original, wow, but that's pretty close.
- [65:35]
C
That is, that is there.
- [65:37]
G
And so yeah, so I've written in a few questions. You guys chose this one after many years. It's probably the easiest one I've asked. But that's okay. I have lots of Yalls programs and so thank you for that because after many, many years of training, it takes the guesswork out and so y' all make solid programs. And so I normally just follow them from anabolic to, you know, split to performance, all of them. And so I'm running through Anabolic Advanced right now for the second time. I probably got it right after you guys released it. And I have a question about priming for the failure days and warming up for those. So I've been training for probably 28 years or so. Pretty high absolute strength and strength endurance. And so when I warm up and it says to do one or two warmup sets, I find I'm not really warm after one or two warm up sets. And so I've tried a few different mechanisms, either doing fewer reps with more sets to get to a heavier load before I hit my failure sets. I've tried just doing straight sets, working up until I feel like I'm fatigued, but then the total volume gets really, really high. I normally leave out the optional exercises cause the volume's too high, which I've learned over time. In my 40s I should be doing less. And I'll just reiterate what you guys always say. Fifteen is probably my favorite program because that's what I find is the best. And so yeah, I just want you guys input on how you prepare or what your intent was on preparing for those sets.
- [67:14]
B
Yeah, no, good, good question. I'll give you a little context, Craig. Obviously you're a big guy, you're strong. I see some of the numbers you sent us, if you don't mind me going over them. But you know, like, you know, you're doing your dumbbell chest press, you know, 100 plus pound dumbbells back squats over 400 pounds. And so with, with Maps Anabolic Advanced you do a couple warm up sets and then you go to failure. But you're so strong that it takes you longer to warm up. I mean, you just jump into a back, you know, back squats with 400 pounds go to failure, the risk of injury is always higher. It's always much higher when you're lifting that much weight. And so you do as many sets as you need to feel ready. And now here's the thing with the volume. It's not a lot of volume if it's a warm up set. What you don't want to do are working sets. So sometimes a warm up set looks more like a set. And so when I'm working up, let's say I'm going to do a set of failure to squats. I just keep ramping up and the intensity is like light, moderate, and I just keep going until I feel like, yeah, I'm ready. And sometimes that takes five. It takes, it depends on the exercise. Squats, it could take as many as six. Yeah. When I'm doing a press, it might be three or four. If I'm doing a row, I could warm up real fast for some reason. So take as many as you need before you get to failure, but don't make them work.
- [68:31]
C
Yeah, keep the reps down. So like when I'm working up to a heavy squat like that or a heavy deadlift, the. I'm going from a plate to two plates to three plates, right. But I'm only doing five reps. Like, I'm not, I'm not going to do 10. Even though I could do 15 reps of the three plates. I, I'm not going to do that. I don't want to get fatigued at all. And, but I do want to get my body acclimated to a little more weight. A little more weight and then I get to my working set and so s. Right. Like when we write these programs, we're thinking of the general population, not someone like you per se. And so if I was coaching, you would be like, oh, we could take, we could take a few more warm up sets to get ready to put £400 on our back. That's totally understandable. Yeah.
- [69:11]
B
And here's the other thing I'll say to someone like you, you're so, you're so strong. Instead of doing 405 for 19 because that's what you wrote up there, which is, that's a lot. I would go 405 or 375 and I would make it. I'd make myself fail way earlier by pausing, by going slow because you're going to get minimal returns on getting stronger at this point. I mean, if you get your squat from 405 for 19 reps to 425 for 19, you're not going to see tons of gains. But your risk of injury went through the roof because it's a lot of weight. So I'm just, you know, when it, depending on the exercise, I'm like, I'm not adding weight, I'm going to make it feel harder. And so I'm slowing down, I'm pausing at the bottom, I'm squeezing like, can I make myself fail at 10 with this weight? That's my mentality.
- [70:00]
D
That's funny, I was just going to say that. But also too, even in the warmup, in the warm up sets, grip in the bar extra tight, adding a lot more tension as you're going through those reps, like all the way down the kinetic chain. So you're even maybe a little bit of a pause just to make sure you know, you're getting everything really fired up. Like there's a way to do that like intrinsically versus just kind of going through the sets and trying to work your way up to that warmup.
- [70:27]
B
Totally.
- [70:28]
E
Yeah.
- [70:28]
G
I like, I like that. I like all those ideas. Those are always good. I'm always trying to mix things up there. So I appreciate you guys giving me that insight. Sometimes it's good to just get in your heads and, and see where you're thinking. But I love all of Yalls programs.
- [70:41]
B
Yeah, I appreciate that, man. Yeah, thanks a lot.
- [70:43]
G
I stopped writing my own programs probably about five years ago. And so I just cycle through you guys and I'm pointing people to you guys all the time. If you got a couple more minutes, I have another follow up question.
- [70:53]
C
Yeah, yeah, let's hear it.
- [70:54]
B
Let's go.
- [70:55]
G
It's, it's related to training youth actually. So my son is in sixth grade. He's actually a pretty high level power lifter for an 11 year old. But I started doing a Bible and barbell club with him and his buddies. And so I was curious your thoughts and this maybe goes more to Justin because I know he's done some of this in the past. I'm doing like 45 minute Bible study and then we do like 45 minutes of lifting. And so I've been playing around with rotating the major lifts, you know, one week versus the next. But I wanted your idea. Is it better to do that or you think I should just say, okay, I'm going to spend four weeks focusing on squats. And we're just going to focus on squats and teach the squat. And then, you know, didn't do a four week cycle of just teaching the deadlift and then teaching maybe bench press and just looking at the big movements because most of these kids just. I'm finding kids don't move well.
- [71:51]
C
Okay, so that was the, I think.
- [71:53]
D
Your ladder advice in terms of like focusing just because.
- [71:58]
C
Just on one, right?
- [71:59]
D
Yeah, just one.
- [71:59]
C
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [72:00]
D
Just so they can learn the, the mechanics of it and really work their way through that. You can like to. Are you training them all as like a group or.
- [72:08]
G
Yeah, it's a group. It's like, you know, we have between four and seven and so you can't do too much in 45 minutes. When you got a bunch of sixth graders trying to goof off and lift weights. And I'm like, oh yeah, you guys get in line and stay focused.
- [72:21]
D
Yeah, yeah, exactly. And you can work on tempo with that so you get them all kind of in sync. I found that, you know, with kids, like, just having them, you know, together, like and splitting them off in pairs really helps. So you can kind of like empower one to, you know, reinforce what you're teaching and watch for these certain things in their movements. That helps a lot. So you have an extra pair of eyes. But yeah, that way you can kind of walk around. You know, you're. You're kind of educating them all at the same time. And it's, it's a lot more effective for them to focus on that versus like kind of jumping them to the next lift.
- [72:58]
C
So how many times a week did you say you see them?
- [73:01]
G
Well, we started, we started doing it at two times a week, but just because of other sports, we're transitioning just once a week. So we only have once a week that we're doing this. It's really to get them, you know, really studying God's word, but then also have the. Most of them are youth athletes too, so they're playing other sports, so.
- [73:17]
C
Oh yeah, for sure.
- [73:19]
G
Baseball season three, upping up for my son. And like other kids play other sports, soccer. And so I don't want them doing too much. I just want them really learning the movements and staying healthy.
- [73:28]
C
Yeah, you're on the right track. If you're only seen them one time a week, the whole month would be about squats. The whole month? Yeah. Every time they come in, we're just, we're practicing the movement. So like that. And like you said, it's more really about the Bible study. And introducing them to some a good movement. You know what I'm saying?
- [73:42]
D
This is so great idea.
- [73:45]
B
I hope you, I mean, you realize what an incredible impact you're making on these young men by doing. That's incredible.
- [73:50]
G
Yeah, I love it. There's three things I've been doing for 20 plus years. That's studying the Bible, lifting weights, and studying science. And so I'm a scientist as well. And so I try to bring all those things in and try to teach some of these kids some of these things as well.
- [74:03]
C
That's awesome.
- [74:03]
B
Yeah. The two things to consider with the workout is the big thing with kids is always, can I get them to enjoy this? Because if they develop a good relationship, they'll want to keep doing it. And so the challenge, maybe I'm wrong, but the challenge might be like, well, I don't. I want to keep them interested. So I'm cycling through the exercises because I don't want them to get bored. But really, they're going to get so excited seeing their numbers go up. I mean, if you squat every week, they're going to see gains in that. That's probably going to psych them up.
- [74:30]
G
Yeah, they, they go through the roof. I mean, it's just, just the movement, learning of that every week they're putting up PRs to them because it's just like they know how to move better the week after week.
- [74:41]
B
That's so great.
- [74:41]
G
So it helps my son too, because he's, you know, and all like a couple of them are starting to. One of, one of his buddies is going to compete with him in a few weeks as well. And so they're all like, excited about that. And I mentioned like, hey, if, you know, if you guys want to stick with it, we'll, we'll put the team together and go all co competing youth powerlifting next year. And so they're all excited about that too.
- [74:59]
B
That's awesome, man. That's cool. Can we send you anything to help you out? Do you have our mobility programs? Is anything we can help you out with?
- [75:08]
G
I have, I have a lot of your programs. I have all the prime, prime pro.
- [75:12]
B
All right.
- [75:13]
G
I, I don't.
- [75:16]
C
Symmetry. You have symmetry.
- [75:18]
G
Oh, yeah, that's my. So my go to programs are symmetry and 15.
- [75:22]
C
Okay. Okay.
- [75:23]
G
I've been hurt too much now. So about once a year I try to push it like, like you guys do, and then you end up hurting. You're like, ah, crap. I just need to go back to 15 or symmetry.
- [75:37]
C
I'm gonna have Doug when We, when we hang up, I'm gonna have Doug message message you and get your address. I'd love to send a package for all the boys.
- [75:43]
G
Oh, yeah, that'd be awesome. They would love that.
- [75:46]
C
See if I can. Yeah. If you ever want to talk to.
- [75:48]
G
A youth athlete, my. My son's about to set all the American records for the third time in powerlifting.
- [75:52]
C
No way.
- [75:54]
B
Can you mind. Can I ask you what he. What the numbers are?
- [75:57]
G
Yeah, so he, he's moving up a weight class to 48 kilos, so that's like 106 pounds almost. And he's his best in the gym right now is 215 squat. He has a 105 pound bench and a 230 deadlift.
- [76:16]
C
Already at 11. He's 11.
- [76:18]
G
He has no idea that he's that strong. He always thinks that he's doing horrible. I'm like, dude, you've already set like a bunch of American records.
- [76:24]
C
You're all right.
- [76:26]
D
He's gonna be a monster.
- [76:27]
B
That's awesome.
- [76:27]
C
That's so cool.
- [76:29]
G
I'm waiting for puberty to kick in and then it's gonna be, oh, God.
- [76:32]
C
Look out, look out.
- [76:33]
B
Look for you, dude. Good for you. That's right on, Craig, man.
- [76:36]
C
Yeah. Yeah.
- [76:37]
G
I appreciate it, guys. I, I love everything you guys do. Keep it up. I'll keep pushing people your way just because you make solid programs.
- [76:45]
C
And I appreciate that, man.
- [76:47]
B
Thanks, Greg.
- [76:47]
C
Yeah, thanks for the support.
- [76:49]
G
Thanks.
- [76:49]
B
That's the coolest thing ever.
- [76:50]
C
Yeah. Get his address and we'll send a cool care package to all the kids over there. That'd be cool.
- [76:57]
B
That is so great, man.
- [76:58]
C
Yeah.
- [76:59]
B
Yeah. Really uplifting to hear all that, you know, with this training, I mean, I mean, I was easy, of course. Easy. Easy answer to his question. Just for people listening, when you get that strong, you have to figure out how to make the weight feel heavier. Because always adding weight to the bar, you get it starts to get.
- [77:13]
C
Yeah, I didn't really. I didn't realize until you said it that he said four. I saw the 405. I didn't see by 19.
- [77:19]
B
Yeah, yeah, he's a, he's a, he's a beast, bro.
- [77:22]
C
If you're doing 405 for 19, you got like a 600 back squad. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [77:26]
B
You're strong. You're real strong. Strong. What a great idea. Bar Bible and barbells. What a great thing for young man.
- [77:35]
C
Such a great way to do it too. Just all month long, we're focusing on the squad. Every day we meet, we do 45 minutes. We do the Bible. Yeah, that's cool. What? That's cool. Great to meet, dude.
- [77:44]
A
Our next caller is Billy from Alberta.
- [77:46]
B
Hey, what's up, man?
- [77:47]
C
What's going on, Billy?
- [77:48]
E
Hey, guys, how are you?
- [77:49]
C
Good, man, how you doing?
- [77:50]
D
All right, dude.
- [77:51]
B
How can we help you?
- [77:52]
C
Good.
- [77:52]
E
I'm doing fantastic. Hey, I have to say right away, really appreciate you guys taking my question, your health and fitness advice. It really resonates with me. You guys have so much experience and I think people can save themselves so many years of trial and error just by listening to your show. Finally, I have to acknowledge all the non fitness stuff as well because I absolutely love the banter and all the conspiracy talk. It feels like I'm kind of just hanging out with boys, so.
- [78:16]
D
Oh, yeah.
- [78:19]
C
They got me, bro. They got me.
- [78:20]
D
Finally we converted him.
- [78:24]
E
Yeah, it's good.
- [78:26]
C
Yeah.
- [78:26]
E
I'll jump right into my question here for the sake of time for you guys. So in my, my teens and early 20s, I developed a passion for bodybuilding, strength, supplements, all that fun stuff. At the time, my focus was more on gaining as much muscle as possible. Never ate whole foods, but my diet was okay. Overall, I was super dedicated and it paid off because to this day, it's still the strongest I've ever been. The early passion never really faded, but life got hectic when I started university and I became more of a casual lifter at that time, didn't have a specific goal in mind. I'd lift with no set routine, get my 10,000 steps, play sports, that kind of thing. Just really trying not to get that throughout the university years. So overall I maintained my health, but I never really achieved the fitness and physique goal that I really tried, I really had envisioned for myself. So at 36 years old, I was struck with the realization that I kind of wasted a bunch of my prime years not really chasing that goal. That was super important to me. So last, well, In June of 2025, it kind of felt like a switch flipped. Started lifting using the push pull routine. Push, pull legs, sorry. That I created myself, started tracking macros and my plan was to cut to about 12% body fat, get to a point where I'm pretty lean, and then reverse diet on that lean frame to pack on as much muscle as I could. Some stats. I'm 5 10, currently 163 pounds. Cut down from 196 calories. Started off at 2,400 and I slowly pulled that back to about 1950, 2000. Held that caloric intake for a couple of months until weight loss became pretty slow. And throughout that whole process I monitored my strength and didn't see any strength losses. So I felt as if I preserved as much muscle as I could. So overall I felt as if I felt pretty good throughout the whole process. Never felt over trained, never felt like I was starving myself. I legitimately felt, okay, here's the but. So at the very beginning of my jersey or journey, I checked my testosterone levels because I'm curious like most other guys, it was 565, which I kind of felt like, hey, I'm, I can bump those numbers up a little bit by doing all the things. I did my lab work recently. Again, this is about six, seven months later and they had dropped to 308. I, I saw that result and I figured there's no way that can be true after all this effort. I did another test 10 days later and they were 118. And this is where I was feeling good, not feeling great at all. I could feel the symptoms of low testosterone. It kind of confused me because I felt like I was doing all the right things to increase that number. You know, exercise, eating whole foods, protein, lifting. Didn't feel over trained. But I'm curious, is the long term deficit the result for that drop in my testosterone?
- [81:22]
C
And almost certainly in fact, what would. Okay, so if you, if I just re engaged on my kick, right. I'm coming up on two months right now and definitely needed to lose body fat. But I never start that way. I always, even though I know I want to lose body fat and lean down is where I want to go. If I haven't been dialed in eating consistently, lifting, the first thing I go to is right away, reverse diet. Even though I want to be leaner, it's build that metabolism, build muscle, lean into that and then, then come the other way. You went and went, let's cut, cut, cut. From a guy who probably wasn't training really consistent, wasn't really watching his diet very carefully to all of a sudden cutting calories and getting leaner. And you, and that's your body needs more and you're lacking nutrients and that your testosterone levels are telling you that right there, you would have been better off even at a higher body fat percentage saying I'm gonna go build some muscle on this, you know, thicker, chunkier frame that I have right now. I don't care. And not aggressively, but slowly increase calories and get to a place where you're eating more like 3, 500 calories and then go to a cut at like 2800 calories and watch your body fat just drop. That would have kept you at a healthier level. Testosterone, the low level of testosterone tells me you went too low on calories for too long to get that, to get that body. And you got the body fat percentage down. And aesthetically you probably look pretty good, but your body didn't like it at all.
- [82:57]
B
A prolonged deficit. We'll do that eventually. We'll do that, yeah. Here's the other thing too. I would also look at nutrient levels. So 2,000 calories of food brings 2,000 calories of nutrients. Most common ones that make a difference are zinc, vitamin D and magnesium. Are you taking any supplements?
- [83:16]
E
Yeah, so I do creatine, vitamin D, zinc, magnesium. I do the CMA stack.
- [83:21]
B
Okay, good.
- [83:22]
E
Vitamin K. So again, I thought I was doing all the good stuff.
- [83:25]
B
You are. You're set. Then it's definitely the def. It's the calories, you know, being as active as you are, man, you know, like 2,000 calories low for a long time. So I would reverse diet, focus on building. You'll see your numbers bounce back up any prolonged. Here's the deal. Even if you reverse diet, you can do it for longer with the reverse diet, but a sustained deficit almost always depresses testosterone in men. Now, somebody who's obese, who then goes on a healthy diet will tend to see a rise in testosterone at first. But if they stay in a deficit for a while, here's the signal. Let me put it this way. The signal you're telling your body is that resources are hard to come by. And your body is going to say, we don't want you to reproduce. You're not gonna be able to care for another mouth. You're not gonna be able to feed another mouth, I should say. So it's just, you're just. 2000 is too low for too long. So revert bump up to 2500 right out the gates. By the way, the symptoms of over training, when someone starts to feel the symptoms, they've probably been overdoing it for a long time already. So it's like when you feel symptoms, it's like you've been there for a little while.
- [84:33]
C
And also in the context of, of, of where you're at calorie wise, like you may not be, you may not be overdoing it if you were eating 2800 calories.
- [84:40]
B
Right? That's right.
- [84:40]
C
But a guy who's eating so low of calories and even though you like in your Head, you're like, I wasn't kill. It was not like I was doing seven days a week or running like crazy. Like, so maybe in your head you're not like, I didn't feel like I'm crazy over training. But you are. For a guy who's only eating 2, 000 calories, your body wants somewhere more like 2500-2, 800 calories to feel healthier. And so you doing that for a long period of time is over trained, even though it may not feel like.
- [85:06]
B
It'S more than you can support.
- [85:07]
C
Yeah. I mean, just so you know though, like, because again, at some point in your life, this more than likely will happen because most of us have come have these ebb and flows of when we're on our kicks and when we're not. When you start off, unless you, even if you were somebody obese, I would still reverse diet first. I always do that first. I always. With clean food, I go, you know, clean up the diet. What? Like, and I don't know what your offenders are. If you're a guy that likes a glass of whiskey here and there, or you like ice cream like I do, or whatever your offenders are. Like, I get that out and I replace it with good food. It's like, I don't cut calories. I go that, you know, 400, 500 calories of ice cream I was eating now becomes a steak and rice meal. And I go after my protein. I try and reverse diet, not aggressive verse diet, but actually include good high nutrient foods and go build muscle. I'm right in the middle of that right now. I want to cut, but I'm getting my calories up to where they're more like 35, 3800 and then I can go do that. And I'm. And I'm thicker than I'd like. And I started this journey knowing that I need to reduce body fat, but it starts with me building my metabolism first.
- [86:10]
E
Okay, yeah, it kind of scared me a little. So I immediately flipped into a reverse diet. And my plan was to actually use anabolic to kind of pair that with a reverse diet. But it does scare me a little to start adding 500 calories. And I'm not sure where to go from there because I don't want to pack on too, too much fat. I'm happy with my progress.
- [86:28]
B
No, no, you won't. You'll just get stronger and build muscle.
- [86:31]
C
Dude, put, put on, put 500 calories back in the diet right away and just hang tight there for a couple Weeks. And then I bet your weight will level out and you'll see strength go up. And then do it another 500, you'll probably.
- [86:42]
B
Here's what'll happen. You might actually get leaner.
- [86:44]
C
Yeah.
- [86:45]
B
Because you're not. Because you're gonna lose body fat, but because you're going to build a little muscle with the current body fat that you have. So your percentage might actually go down through adding 500 calories. In fact, that's what I would expect to happen with someone like you is I'd add 500 calories. A good strength training program, and they actually get leaner through that process. What was your routine like at 2000 calories? What did your workout look like in your activity?
- [87:09]
E
So, like I said, I would do a push, pull legs, which was a big change for me. So growing up, I always did the bro split for bodybuilding, so that was a big change. And I try and divide it up. So I kind of break up the big heavy lifts. Like I wouldn't do. Do squats with a deadlift day kind of thing. I'm trying to break it up accordingly. I felt like it was okay. If I ever felt like I was sore, I wasn't ready for that day. I'd honestly just take an extra day off as a break. I'm pretty in tune with my body that way. And that. That's why I felt as if I wasn't over training. However, I will say I do Jiu Jitsu twice a week as well.
- [87:43]
C
So.
- [87:43]
B
Hold on. Wait, wait, wait. How many days a week were you lifting?
- [87:47]
C
Three.
- [87:49]
B
Okay, so three plus two days of Jiu Jitsu. Yeah. Yeah, bro. 2,000 calories. 100%. That's why you just stop.
- [87:55]
C
Yeah.
- [87:55]
B
You're gonna feel like a million bucks. Are you gonna continue doing Jiu Jitsu?
- [87:59]
E
Not for a while. Because I have a double MCL tear right now from Jiu Jitsu, so I.
- [88:04]
B
Got a bit of a break.
- [88:05]
C
And you're injured, so your body definitely wants more calories.
- [88:07]
B
Hey, listen. Yeah, yeah. Risk of injury goes up in a prolonged calorie deficit as well.
- [88:13]
E
No, that's fair.
- [88:14]
B
Yeah. You were over training.
- [88:15]
D
Probably listening to metal while you're doing it, too, right?
- [88:19]
E
Man, I always listen.
- [88:19]
D
That'll jack you.
- [88:20]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You were actually over trained. I would go 2500 calories right away. Yeah. Maps, anabolic.
- [88:26]
C
Yeah.
- [88:27]
B
You're not doing Jiu Jitsu, which is great, by the way. When you get back to Jiu Jitsu, Mass 15 is your program.
- [88:32]
C
Yeah.
- [88:32]
B
Not maps, anabolic. Not ppl. It's gonna be Mass 15.
- [88:36]
E
So I want to continue to increase my calories even more past that 2500. How does the further steps look like? Do I keep adding 500?
- [88:44]
C
Yeah, if you can, you can. I would. I would go right to 2500. I would probably hang you out there for about two weeks. I'm willing to bet two weeks in there. And anabolic, you'll see the scale stay the same, you know, and I don't really care what the number on the scale. I'm just looking for it to kind of level out and tell me you're kind of at maintenance now. And then once I know you're at maintenance, I'm gonna go up another 500 calories and I'm gonna just keep doing that.
- [89:06]
B
Now you can wait four weeks.
- [89:08]
C
Yeah, it could be four weeks. Like, yeah, like, if I, like, let's say week one, we gain weight. Week two, you gain weight. I probably wouldn't increase you again. I would. I want to wait till I see a week of, like, leveled out of the scale. So the scale is going to kind of do this at first because you're. You're going to hopefully be building muscle, gaining strength, filling those muscle bellies up. So that's totally normal to gain a quick, like five, six, seven pounds.
- [89:30]
B
Yeah.
- [89:30]
C
So. But understand a lot. That's glycogen water. Hopefully a little bit of muscle. Don't think in your head that's fat, because a lot of people do. They go, oh, my God, I'm. I'm putting on too much. No, you're not. You're. You're gonna gain a quick five to seven pounds, and then I wanna see that kind of level off, and then I'm gonna do it again. And so that might be two weeks, it might be three weeks, it might be four weeks. I doubt it. But it could take that long. And then once you're leveled off again and you. And you're not gaining any more weight now I'm bumping you another 500 calories. That's exactly how I would do it.
- [89:59]
B
But just so you know, a guy like you, if you were doing three days a week of strength training, plus jiu jitsu twice a week, your calories probably should sit around 3,000.
- [90:08]
C
Oh, yeah.
- [90:09]
D
Oh, at least.
- [90:10]
C
Oh, yeah.
- [90:10]
B
2,000 is way low, dude.
- [90:12]
C
Yeah.
- [90:12]
B
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And don't worry about testosterone. It is very reactive to your environment. So a man's testosterone can do this depending on your lifestyle. So don't worry about it. I. I'm pretty confident you'll see it bounce back up.
- [90:24]
C
No, you will. You'll bounce back up, which is exciting. I think within them, if we get you up to 3, 000 calories, I watch your testosterone come right back up. So the goal would be, let's get the testosterone. Let's get the calories up there with minimal body fat increase. And I bet you see testosterone come right up.
- [90:40]
B
Yeah, okay.
- [90:42]
E
Yeah, no, it sounds good. I'm gonna go ahead and do that. I'm excited to bring the calories back up and. Yeah, I'm gonna get those testosterone numbers checked probably in a couple months time just to kind of monitor.
- [90:51]
C
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Give yourself a couple months and then come. I'd love to hear back from you, Billy. I'd love to hear after you. Do you take the advice and do this? I wanna. I wanna hear where your numbers go.
- [90:59]
E
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, really appreciate that, guys.
- [91:01]
C
Yeah, yeah, check back with us. All right, man. Thank you.
- [91:04]
B
Yeah, thanks. Yeah. I gotta say this too, people, don't they underestimate how much a sport like Jiu Jitsu is taxing on the body.
- [91:15]
D
Oh, yeah, I know.
- [91:16]
B
It took me very taxing. I did even when I did it. And it took me a while to realize I can only lift weights once a week. That's it. I can't do more than that, otherwise I end up frying my body.
- [91:26]
C
So people have to understand, too. This is. This is the classic mistake that I think almost everybody makes when they put on body fat and they decide. They decide they're going to make a change is they go from wherever. And I don't care. I don't. I didn't even ask him where his body. He said he wants to get to 12 to 15. I don't care if he was at 19 body fat, 22 body fat or 30 body fat is irrelevant to me. He's 196 pounds. He knows he wants to lose fat. Okay. The very first thing I'm doing is going after our protein and reverse dieting him. And the reason why I'm gonna do that is I guarantee somebody who has fallen out of shape is not getting what their body needs. They're not getting enough. They're guaranteed. They're probably over consuming carbohydrates and saturated fat and sugars and they're not hitting enough protein. And so right away, I'm gonna, like, get rid of some of those. Those offenders, replace it with some good steak, chicken, all those types of meals, and try and build muscle and. And then what Will happen is he'll get somewhere between 3,000, 3,500, maybe more good calories, build some muscle, maybe his weight stays the same. He's still 196 after a month of training with me. But now he's eating 3, 500 calories, hitting his protein intake strength, going through the roof because he's building muscle, then I can cut him down. And we don't see that happen to his testosterone.
- [92:43]
A
Our next caller is Marshall from Idaho.
- [92:45]
B
What's up, Marshall?
- [92:47]
F
How's it going?
- [92:47]
C
How you doing, Marshall?
- [92:48]
F
Just want to say thanks for this opportunity. It's really, really helpful.
- [92:52]
B
Yeah, you got it. How can we help you?
- [92:54]
F
Yeah, so I'm 26 years old. I have a very unique work schedule and it's constantly changing, which is kind of the challenge that I have. Originally I was £270. So far, I've lost £100 over the course of three years. Originally I was just tracking calories and started tracking proteins. Started listening to you guys about two years ago, started learning the importance of fats and tracking really the majority of things in terms of fats and carbs. Eventually, after about a year and a half, I got down to 220 pounds, hired a personal trainer, and then in May of 2025, we decided to do a DEXA scan. I came back at 38 body fat, 202 pounds. Did another one on September. So roughly five, six months later, came back at 31 body fat. So I lost a total of 20 pounds during that time. 19 pounds of that was fat. One pound of that was muscle.
- [93:46]
C
That's awesome.
- [93:48]
F
Decided to do another, a pretty aggressive cut. I'm not gonna lie. I was trying to lose £100 by the end of the year, which I did manage to hit. I did another Dexter scan and it was came back at 23 body fat. I lost 15 pounds of fat during that time and actually gained 3 pounds of muscle.
- [94:06]
C
Wow, excellent.
- [94:07]
F
Full body split. Instead of the push pull legs. Now the full body split I did create with my trainer. It is two gym focus days. And then because I have access to like a hotel gym, it is usually two full body days and then kind of accessory movements on the third day and then. But during that last aggressive cut, it was on the workout days. 1800 calories, 190 grams of protein, 120 grams of carbs, and 60 grams of fat. On the rest days, it was 1500 calories. And the entire reduction came from carbs. So it was a very aggressive cut. Um, I did eventually again reach that a Hundred pound loss. Managed to make it down to 170 pounds. And then eventually I decided I would part ways with my personal trainer and then was going to do a bulk. But I am a little bit afraid of that bulk. I'm not going to lie. Part of it's the adjusting work schedule, part of it's the fact I no longer have a trainer. And then the other thing is I don't want to gain an excess amount of fat.
- [95:11]
C
Yeah, you're gonna be all right.
- [95:12]
B
You're fine.
- [95:13]
C
You're gonna be fine.
- [95:13]
D
You won't.
- [95:14]
C
You're gonna build some muscle, dude.
- [95:15]
B
Yeah, you won't. It won't happen. Like, I think the fear is like, oh, my God, if I start to bulk or reverse diet, then I'm just gonna gain all this body fat or maybe I'll. It'll get off the rails and I'll just lose control, the whole thing. It's typically, it's typically the fear. So what I like to tell people, Marshall, who work with a trainer or a coach in a cut is it's just as valuable to work with someone on a reverse. So that same kind of structure, that accountability, that guidance that's valuable on a cut, that helps you from, you know, you know, going back to eating the way you did or maybe not miss or, you know, not missing workouts. It's also valuable on the other end.
- [95:55]
C
Well, especially with someone like you, because, Marshall, the, the biggest challenge here is going to be you get in your own way.
- [96:01]
B
That's right.
- [96:02]
C
You're. Yeah, you're the, the, the, the fear of that weight that you carried for so long, like, that's, that's still in there, right? And. Yeah, and when you reverse diet. We just had a call with somebody else that I was, we were talking about reverse dieting other young man, and he plateaued really hard and his calories are really low. His test, he tanked his testosterone. And I said, you got to jump. You gotta jump 500 calories and you can jump. I said, listen, you're gonna, you're gonna put seven pounds on the scale right away.
- [96:30]
F
I said, yeah, I knew that would happen. Yeah, I kind of fight the urge on all of those things. Yeah, I have gotten the blood work done. Everything is good, even in the aggressive cut.
- [96:39]
C
Oh, wow. Good. You're gonna do good.
- [96:41]
F
Yeah. So I'm. The main thing, I guess, was the personal trainer. He abided by a lot of the things that you guys recommended, but not everything. There was definitely some junk volume, increased cardio, decreased calories, and he wanted me to even cut fats, and I wasn't really willing to go below what I was already at at 60 grams. So there was definitely some challenges with the personal trainer, I guess.
- [97:02]
B
How do you feel, Marshall? How do you feel with workouts on your own? Do you feel comfortable with that?
- [97:07]
F
Yeah, for the most part. I mean, occasionally I have to ask for a spotter, but nothing more than that.
- [97:11]
B
All right, so it's the nutrition guidance that'll help you the most. Okay. Okay. So we have coaches that work for us. If you want a coach to help you on the other end of it, then that's what they'll focus on with you. Is the reverse diet part of it. If you look, here's the deal. You're in a big. The perfect place to reverse diet. And what's going to come from it is a lot of muscle. What's interesting to me, I'm going to tell you this. Looking at your numbers, how little muscle you lost initially and then how you gain muscle even through this whole process of losing weight, tells me you probably have really good muscle building genetics. I would have expected a lot of.
- [97:46]
C
Muscle loss, especially as you got down really low calories. The fact that you were able to still maintain that muscle and, or gain muscle and in effect.
- [97:55]
B
So what will probably happen on a good, smart reverse diet is you're going to build a lot of muscle, which is going to be great. That's going to be great because that's going to put you metabolically in a wonderful place. And what we want, eventually, Marshall, is for you to be in a place where your maintenance is a lot of calories. Yeah. Then you got all this flexibility. You know, if you're walking around your maintenance at 1800 calories, 2000, it's like, oh, man, if I go off on a weekend or go on a vacation, this is gonna mess me. I can't really. I gotta be real scared. I gotta be controlled with everything. But I think you probably build muscle really well. So with a good, smart reverse diet, we pack on some muscle, get you strong, which you'll by the way. Fat loss gets way easier if you do this right. Way easier.
- [98:39]
C
He had a push, pull legs, and then he went to a full body with an accessory. What program will we switch him over to right now?
- [98:45]
B
Well, if he works with one of our coaches, I think they'll be able to give him a get a real good idea.
- [98:48]
F
So I, I think I have, I think it's anabolic, but I did kind of model my thing off of that. But like I said, I have, I travel for work, so I have access to a gym usually two days a week, and then the third day is the hotel gym. So that's kind of just.
- [99:03]
B
Yeah, perfect for that.
- [99:04]
C
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [99:05]
B
You're good.
- [99:05]
C
You're good with that.
- [99:06]
B
Yep.
- [99:06]
C
Yeah, yeah. No, you're doing, bro.
- [99:08]
B
You're gonna.
- [99:08]
C
You're gonna do good. The hardest part will be the mental part. Literally 100. Yeah, yeah. That your testosterone's good. You got all the way weight down there. You got a good programming. Like you're. It's literally just going to be the mental challenge of, of fear of going that way. You're not going to do.
- [99:22]
B
And the scale is going to scare you, especially if you start gaining muscle and you're filling out with glycogen. It's going to freak you out. But I have a feeling you're going to build muscle really quick.
- [99:30]
C
And if you just know, okay, listen, you, if you, if you increase those calories through good choices, where this goes wrong and off the rails is where someone, okay, I'm on a reverse diet. And then they just start eating. If you eat good choices, you reverse diet and you're strength training with a good program, you. The most of that weight is going to be good weight.
- [99:47]
B
You're gonna use it.
- [99:48]
C
It's going to be good weight like that. You're going to be just fine. So again, that's a lot of the coaching sounds like that with someone like you is just reminding you like, you're doing good, bro.
- [99:58]
B
Giving you targets.
- [99:59]
F
Yeah. So realistically, if I was. So I just finished a week of 2300 calories, I planned on bumping into 2, 500 calories. And again, all that going to carbs and fats. So I'm still hitting 190 grams of protein. Would that work if I just continue gradually increasing calories in that way?
- [100:14]
B
Yep.
- [100:15]
C
Yeah. You can even go more protein if you like.
- [100:17]
B
Yep.
- [100:18]
F
Okay.
- [100:18]
B
Yeah. What's your target body?
- [100:20]
C
If you digest protein well and you like. And you like it, I mean, what's.
- [100:24]
B
Your target body weight? What do you want to work like?
- [100:25]
F
So this morning I waited in £176. I planned to bulk until March or April or until I hit 200 pounds, whichever happens first.
- [100:33]
B
Yeah.
- [100:34]
F
And then cut back down.
- [100:35]
B
No, you're on point. Yeah, but 200 grams of protein is great then. Yeah, you're on point.
- [100:38]
F
Okay.
- [100:39]
C
Yep.
- [100:39]
B
Yep. 100.
- [100:40]
C
Yeah. You're doing good, dude. You're doing real good. I love that.
- [100:43]
F
Okay, so and then in terms of, I guess, ensuring that it's a muscle gain and not fat, what's the best way to do that?
- [100:50]
C
Just DEXA scan every, you know, maybe 45 to 60 days.
- [100:54]
B
Yeah. Also strength.
- [100:56]
C
Yeah, strength is obvious. That's your, that's your weekly indicator. You're heading down the right path. Right. If you're getting stronger, feeling good, like, you're probably doing all the right things. But a check in every 45 to 60 days with like a DEXA scan just like you've been doing, just to make sure. And again, don't freak out if you gain one or two pounds of fat that's totally normal. Like, as long. If you're. If we're moving in the right direction, you're building more muscle than you are fat and you're increasing calories, that's a win. That's what we're, that's what we're trying to do. We're trying to. We're trying to add more muscle than fat and increase calories and don't do the right thing.
- [101:30]
B
Don't forget this, Marshall, because if you do it exascan, it may say, oh, you gained eight pounds of muscle and you gained three pounds of fat. Like, oh, man, I gained fat. You actually, you pro. I don't know the numbers, but you're probably leaner now because it's a body fat percentage.
- [101:45]
C
Yeah.
- [101:46]
E
So.
- [101:46]
B
So that's the. So keep that in mind as well.
- [101:48]
C
Not to mention you are now a body that's eating, eating 500 more calories than what you were every single day, which is like, that's like my, my gate. Like, I care less as long. As long as. What I don't want to see is you put 10 pounds on and 7 of its fat and 3 of its muscle. We're, that means that tells me we're bulking too fast. But if I'm putting on more muscle than you are body fat and I'm increasing calories, that's a win.
- [102:09]
B
Yep.
- [102:10]
C
That means we are building muscle at a faster rate than we are adding body fat and increasing calories, you're doing pretty damn good. So don't worry about a couple pounds of fat here. If more of it is coming in muscle and you're in, in, in a calorie surplus, that's a win. We just don't want to see a flip flop to me, tells me I move too. I increase too fast, too aggressive.
- [102:28]
B
How do you feel at 20, 300 calories?
- [102:30]
F
I mean, I feel better. It's definitely the Energy is significantly higher with the increasing carbs.
- [102:34]
C
Yeah, wait till you get to 28.
- [102:36]
F
But I am afraid to go higher. I'm not gonna lie.
- [102:38]
C
No, you're gonna be all right. You're gonna be all right.
- [102:39]
B
Well, let. Let us know if you want one of our coaches to work with you through this process. But otherwise, I mean, you're doing great, dude.
- [102:45]
C
That's what they would do, what they would do with you through this process, because it's. It's. It is kind of inevitable. You're going to have those moments with those challenges slowing down the reverse. Changing the programming up a little bit. I might. I might. If I was coaching you, I might. Hey, this week we're gonna do a little mini cut. Let's interrupt the bulk for one week.
- [103:02]
B
Depending on what's going on, to give.
- [103:03]
C
You a diet break. If you're starting to feel. Oh, God, I feel like. So there's a lot of things that. This is what a coach would do to help you through the mental process. But to be honest, you're doing a really good job, dude. You are.
- [103:13]
F
Okay. I was considering doing like a three week bulk, one week bulk mini cut. I was thinking about doing that, but I wasn't sure if that was the.
- [103:19]
C
You could totally do that. You can do that. And. But honestly, that's more for the psychological reason why I would do that, not because you need to do that. It's just like, if I was coaching you and you're. You're constantly giving me this feedback like, oh, my God, Adam, I feel bloated. I feel this. And like, I hear that a lot. Then I'd be like, all right, come on, one more week. We're gonna see these high calories, and then next week, I'm gonna cut your calories, and then I cut your calories, give you a diet break. And then I know what will happen. You'll get hungry, hungry again. And then I'll be like, all right, let's go back up. And so that it's more psychological than. It's like this, you know, perfect strategy to only put muscle on. It's like that.
- [103:51]
B
It's.
- [103:51]
C
It's less of that. It's more. That would be me hearing you out. You don't need to do that, but you can.
- [103:58]
E
Okay.
- [103:58]
F
And then in terms of cardio, is there anything you Recommend? And just 10,000 steps a day, is that.
- [104:02]
C
Just keep on. Just keep your steps up.
- [104:03]
B
You're fine.
- [104:04]
C
Yeah, keep your steps up, keep moving, be active, but don't go out of your. You're on a reverse diet. So I don't need you going out of your way to get over activity. Just be, be your active, normal self.
- [104:14]
F
Okay?
- [104:15]
C
Yep. All right.
- [104:16]
F
I appreciate it.
- [104:16]
B
You got it, man.
- [104:17]
C
Doing good, dude. I'd love to hear back from you if you don't, if you don't end up with one of our coaches. I would love to hear back from you anyways.
- [104:22]
B
Okay.
- [104:22]
F
Would I just email it back at the same thing?
- [104:24]
B
We can have somebody reach out to you today.
- [104:26]
C
Yeah.
- [104:27]
E
All right.
- [104:28]
C
All right, Marshall, you got it. Thank you.
- [104:30]
B
You got it, man. I. I'm shocked, dude.
- [104:33]
C
I am blown away that he was able to go that low of calories and see a increase. Increase in muscle. That tells me and keep his testosterone levels.
- [104:41]
B
That tells me that he's got genetics. He's got good genetics. Because you. Because I've known people like this. They go real low calorie and don't lose any muscle. Yeah, I don't know a lot of people like that. But. But I've known people like that. What is going on?
- [104:53]
D
Yeah, it's wild.
- [104:54]
B
Yeah.
- [104:54]
C
So my, my ex was like that.
- [104:56]
B
Yeah.
- [104:56]
C
We used to have to like, like dangerously diet her low calorie and she.
- [105:01]
B
Wouldn'T lose a single.
- [105:02]
C
And she wouldn't lose a single pound. Also, she made it hard for her to lose body fat.
- [105:06]
B
Yeah.
- [105:07]
C
But she, her body just held on. Like, just held on. But you could put her at such low calorie and just keep every pound of muscle. I was so jealous.
- [105:16]
B
I dropped calories. Muscle just.
- [105:17]
C
Yeah, it comes off just as fast.
- [105:18]
B
Falls out of my pockets. Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. Mind Pump Media.
- [105:24]
A
Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB super bundle@mindpumpmedia.com the RGB Super Bundle includes maps, Anabolic maps, performance and maps, aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos. The RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB super bundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee and you can get it now. Plus other valuable free resources@mindpumpmedia.com if you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review on itunes and by introducing. Introducing Mind Pump. To your friends and family, we thank you for your support. And until next time, this is Mind Pump.