2793: How to Calculate Volume and Progressively Overload for MAX GAINS

Summary

Mind Pump Ep. 2793: How to Calculate Volume and Progressively Overload for MAX GAINS

Date: February 13, 2026
Hosts: Sal Di Stefano, Adam Schafer, Justin Andrews, Doug Egge

---

Overview

In this episode, the Mind Pump crew dives deep into the misunderstood and often confusing world of training volume and progressive overload. Drawing from decades of combined experience and real-life case studies, Sal, Adam, and Justin break down the science—and practical execution—of maximizing muscle gain and strength through smart, calculated progressions. They candidly discuss their own learning curves, pitfalls of common methods, historical insights from Olympic strength cultures, and practical tips you can apply today.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Complexity of Training Volume (02:39–04:03)

• Sal opens the topic by identifying training volume and progressive overload as the central drivers for muscle growth, but also one of the most misunderstood principles in fitness.
• "Almost nothing is more confusing to people just based off of how they actually try to do this than training volume... The problem is everybody messes this up." — Sal (02:39)
• The hosts agree there is both too little and too much volume happening, and that most people don’t know how to measure it.

---

2. Getting Granular with Volume: Adam’s Competitive Edge (04:03–07:04)

• Adam explains that tracking volume (sets x reps x weight) is similar to tracking macros for nutrition: it’s not mandatory but provides deeper insight and results if your goal is truly specific.
• "Tracking volume can give you that level of insight. If you've never done it before... it will give you a competitive edge." — Adam (04:03)
• He noticed, when he finally tracked his own volume over 30 days, he wasn’t actually progressively overloading as much as he thought. Instead, he was swinging between overshooting (overtraining) and needing to pull back (recovery), leading to a flat average.

---

3. Historical Lessons: The Olympic Lifting Model (07:53–09:26)

• Sal points to the Soviet and Olympic lifting approach in the mid-20th century as the origin of true, systematic volume tracking—contrasting it with the more chaotic, “go by feel” methods of early US lifters.
• "The Soviets were methodical... They ended up doing phenomenally well... not just going into it based off feel." — Sal (09:03)
• Adam was inspired by this approach, but for practicality, tracked volume only for main lifts (bench, squat, deadlift, rows, overhead press).

---

4. How To Calculate Volume (10:32–12:29)

• Formula: Sets x Reps x Weight
  • Sal admits it’s not perfect (due to crossover work), but it’s the clearest system for most lifters.
  • Any increase—more reps, more weight, or even one set—is sufficient progressive overload.
• "If your volume goes up at all, you're good. So if you add one rep, good. If I add, you know, one set, fine. If I added a little bit of weight, good." — Sal (11:37)

Mistake to Avoid:

• People often try to increase everything at once (sets, weight, reps), which spikes fatigue and leads to regression the following week.
• "That was a paradigm shattering moment for a guy who had already been lifting for 15 years..." — Adam (12:07)

---

5. Practical Tracking and Focus (13:22–15:22)

• Adam emphasizes focusing on 3–4 foundational lifts, not every movement or isolation exercise. Only ramp up volume for one or two muscle groups at a time.
• Training blocks with targeted emphasis streamline progress and help recovery.
• "It's not just how much volume a body part can handle, it's cumulative for the whole body..." — Sal (15:22)

---

6. The Importance of Nutrition with Volume (16:34–18:34)

• Don’t ramp up training volume while cutting calories—it sets you up for overtraining and stagnation.
• "While you're scaling your volume up, you should not simultaneously be cutting your calories…that’s a terrible time to progressively overload." — Sal (16:59)
• Adam shares his contest-prep experience: volume progression should be reserved for off-season with high calories.

---

7. The Power of Micro-Progression (18:43–21:10)

• Small, consistent progressions (like adding 2.5lb plates) compound into major gains over time.
• "The biggest takeaway...is that what we tend to do is when we feel good, we overreach...and when you back out 30 days, you stay the same." — Adam (19:01)
• Discipline means knowing when to hold steady as much as when to add more.

---

8. Intensity as a Confounding Factor (20:42–22:29)

• Keep intensity consistent; otherwise, volume calculations are skewed (e.g., taking more sets to failure is not the same volume as stopping 2 reps short).
• "If I do the same volume this week as I did last week, but this week I go to failure...it's actually different." — Sal (20:42)
• Standardize technique and intensity for accurate measurement and progress.

---

9. Exercise vs. Training: The Purposeful Approach (22:29–23:51)

• "There's a difference between exercise and training...training is you have a goal in mind...you are methodically training towards that." — Adam (22:29)
• Tracking volume (even for a limited period, like a 30-day block) gives vital perspective on habits and actual progress.

---

10. Q&A: Listener Questions Addressed (54:23–67:43)

[54:23] Q1: Vibration Plates — Real or Gimmick?

• Not a muscle builder, but useful for mobility as they help "override" the nervous system, making it easier to access range of motion.
• "[Mobility protocols] I can see value in using a vibration plate...but for muscle and bone, strength training is superior." — Sal (54:34)

[57:39] Q2: Barbell Squats Alone at Home—Best Rep Range?

• Any rep range can be safe if done correctly; use safety bars and learn to dump the barbell.
• "Load it to where six to eight reps is difficult but doable..." — Adam (59:23)

[62:03] Q3: Rotator Cuff Friendly Pressing

• No grip is inherently safer; if you’re hurting, it’s a stability/prehab issue, not an exercise choice.
• "It's not a shoulder press that you could do that will solve this problem. You have to solve the problem of the stability that's involved." — Sal (62:11)
• Focus on strengthening rotator cuff muscles with W's, face pulls, etc.

[64:56] Q4: Training With an L5 Bulging Disc

• No need to avoid all training; use unilateral/isometric work and seek a correctional exercise specialist.
• "So many people have bulging discs...this isn't a death sentence...strengthening makes this a lot better." — Sal (65:30)

---

Notable Quotes

“Almost nothing is more confusing...than training volume...The problem is everybody messes this up.”—Sal (02:39)

“Tracking volume can give you that level of insight...if you’ve never done it before...it will give you a competitive edge.”—Adam (04:03)

“If your volume goes up at all, you’re good…If I added a little bit of weight, good. That means your volume went up.”—Sal (11:37)

“While you’re scaling your volume up you should not simultaneously be cutting your calories. That’s a terrible time to progressively overload.”—Sal (16:59)

“When we feel good, we overreach...and then when you back out 30 days, you stay the same.”—Adam (19:01)

“There's a difference between exercise and training...training is you have a goal in mind…you are methodically training towards that.”—Adam (22:29)

---

Memorable Moments

• The group’s joking yet insightful discussion about how tracking volume is like tracking macros—even most experienced people are surprised when they finally do it (06:28–07:53).
• Sal sharing how national investment in athletic science (Soviet vs. US) influenced how we understand progressive overload (08:00–09:26).
• Adam’s “paradigm shattering” personal realization after tracking weeks of volume and seeing the plateau for the first time (12:07–12:48).
• The analogy between training blocks for specific body parts and managing cumulative systemic fatigue—a real “ah-ha!” for listeners (15:22–16:34).
• Humor: Playful ribbing about height, feet size, and how childhood asthma drugs "stunted" Sal’s growth (48:05–49:43).

---

Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• 02:39 — Introduction to the complexity of training volume
• 04:03 — Adam’s insight from competitive training and tracking volume
• 09:03 — The Soviet Olympic lifter method: methodical, scientific progression
• 10:32 — Formula and tracking practicalities: sets x reps x weight
• 16:59 — Nutrition and volume: Do NOT increase both volume and calorie deficit simultaneously
• 18:43 — Micro-progression and the discipline of small increases
• 20:42 — Why maintaining intensity matters for accurate volume tracking
• 22:29 — Difference between “exercise” and “training”
• 54:23 — Q&A: Vibration plates
• 57:39 — Q&A: Safe home squatting/practical progressions
• 62:03 — Q&A: Rotator cuff pressing strategies
• 64:56 — Q&A: Bulging disc and training modifications

---

Summary — Actionable Takeaways

• Track your main lifts: Use sets x reps x weight as your volume metric. Don’t get lost in minutia—pick 3–4 compound lifts.
• Be progressive but patient: Small, sustainable increases beat big jumps and inevitable backslides.
• Prioritize recovery: Increase volume during high-calorie periods, not when dieting. Trying to “do it all” is a recipe for stagnation or injury.
• Consistency in intensity: For true progress tracking, stay consistent in both technique and load intensity.
• Customize your focus: Move emphasis in training blocks (e.g., legs for a month), not everywhere at once.
• Train smart with injuries: Substitute isometrics and unilateral work if you have issues like back or shoulder pain, and consult correctional exercise specialists.
• Don’t fall prey to gimmicks: Devices like vibration plates may have niche use for mobility but cannot replace traditional strength work.

---

If you’re serious about maximizing gains—and avoiding the plateau trap—start applying these principles and occasionally check your volume "trends" for true insight.

---

Transcript

[Sal Destefano]

At Charmin, we heard you shouldn't talk about going to the bathroom in public, so we decided to sing about it.

[Justin Andrews]

Light a candle, pour some wine, grab a roll the soft kind for a little me time. Charmin Ultra Soft Smooth Tear Wavy edges for my rear so let the softness caress your soul.

[Adam Schafer]

Just relax, you're on a roll.

[Sal Destefano]

Let her rip. Charmin Ultra Soft Smooth Tear Charmin Ultra Soft Smooth Tear has the same softness you love now with wavy edges that tear better than the leading one. Ply Brand Enjoy the Go with Charming.

[Producer/Host]

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go.

[Sal Destefano]

Mind Pump Mind Pump. With your hosts Sal Destefano, Adam Schafer.

[Producer/Host]

And Justin Andrews, you just found the.

[Sal Destefano]

Most downloaded fitness, health and entertainment podcast in the world. This is Mind Pump. In today's episode, we pick questions off of Instagram that people posted. We picked four of them and we answered them. But this was after the intro. Today's intro was 52 minutes long. In the intro we talk about fat loss, muscle gain, fitness, health, current events. Of course, it's always a good time. Again, if you want to post a question that we can pick, go to Instagram mindpumpmedia Now this episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Paleo Valley. Today we talked about their fish Roe capsule supplement. So it's like a fish oil except it's not just the extracted oil. It has all of the nutrients of fish roe and as well. Great for your brain, great for inflammation, great for overall health. They have lots of supplements on their site, including grass fed beef sticks. They have bone broth, protein that tastes incredible and much more. Go check them out. Go to paleovalley.com mindpump that link will get you 15% off. This episode is also brought to you by Our Place. So they make cookware that is forever chemical free, lasts a long time, it looks good, it's easy to clean. I pretty much replaced all of my cookware in my home with our place. Go check them out. Go to fromourplace.com, use the code mind pump at checkout. Get 10% off. We also have a program bundle that is a sale. It's called the Couples Bundle. It includes four programs, Maps, Aesthetic Maps, Hit Maps, Muscle Mommy and the no BS six pack formula. That entire bundle takes those programs and discounts it over 50%. Go check it out. Go to MP Valentine.com all right, real quick.

[Justin Andrews]

If you love us like we love you, why not show it by rocking one of Our shirts, hats, mugs, or training gear over atmypumpstore.com. i'm talking right now. Hit pause, Head on over to my pumpstore.com. that's it. Enjoy the rest of the show.

[Sal Destefano]

Almost nothing is more confusing to people just based off of how they actually try to do this than training. Volume. Look, we all know progressive overload is the closest connection to muscle growth of all the things that correlate to muscle growth, strength, and the pump and all this other stuff. Volume, or progressive overload, is the strongest correlate. The problem is everybody messes this up. They do it too much or not enough. They don't know how to calculate it. Right. We're going to talk about this right now. Volume. What is it? How do you calculate it? And how do you effectively progressively overload to get your body to consistently progress?

[Justin Andrews]

Crank up the volume.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, yeah. You, Adam, are probably. I heard people communicate this before, but I had personally never gotten as granular with my total volume and trying to progressively overload that way. I'd never gotten as granular as you did. I mean, you took competing, you treated it like a business. It wasn't like a fun hobby. You know, I think people listen to the podcast long enough, they know that you did it specifically with the intent of building a business. And so you were like, you are with all business. You look at the data, the metrics, and you figured this out. And so I'd love for you to talk about what you learned, because this wasn't like you were a newbie. You'd already been a trainer, you've been working out for years, and then you got into this and then you learned a few things.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, I have, I have a similar opinion around it. Similar to, like, somebody who might say, like, oh, I don't ever really want to track macros, or I don't want to do that. But then they are like, but I really want to get down to this percent body fat or I really want to look this way. I think tracking volume can give you that. That level of insight. If you've never done it before, I think you could absolutely never track volume and be a very healthy, fit person. Totally fine. Did that for most of my training career. Everybody in here would probably attest to the same thing. But what I, What I found at that point, because it was, I was doing something competitively, and knowing that information I know gave me a competitive edge, was the only reason why I cared enough to. To go to that level of it. Right. And I don't know if that Speaks to my. My business side, like you alluded to, or more of my competitive side.

[Sal Destefano]

I don't think you cared about winning. You just cared about making it, being able to build a business out of it.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, that was the ultimate desired outcome.

[Sal Destefano]

And so winning helped.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. And I obviously, if I. If. The way I thought about it was, if I go do this and I don't do very good at it, who's going to want to follow me or pay attention to my business? So I better go do good. But the, The. The. One of the first big insights for me was, and this. I feel like this is the same with macros.

[Producer/Host]

Why?

[Adam Schafer]

Why? I used to love to have somebody who said, oh, I don't really want to track macros like, like, let's just do it for, you know, 30 days. And just so we can see is. It's just the insight that I got. And so I knew what volume was, I knew how to calculate it. Never cared enough to really do it. And what I realized is we have this kind of natural ebb and flow, very similar to how we eat, where we kind of find this homeostasis of our calories. We think we're on a diet and we're doing so good. But then when we actually track it, it's like, oh, these extra calories sneak in, and you have these higher days, and then you have these lower days. But then when you look at the average over an entire 30 days, you were actually here. When you thought you were like, here, volume was like that. You know, you have your weeks where you're like, oh, yeah, I'm feeling it, and you're strong and you're hitting it consistently. You don't miss and feel like the weight's moving on the bar. Then you have other weeks where you're just, like, going through the motions. You don't really feel it. And then when I would pull back and I would look at 30 days, I'd go, oh, wow, I'm really not. Not only am I not progressively overloading when I thought I was, when I looked at the 30 days, I actually ended up the last week, I was doing less volume than I was doing the first week, you know. And so is that.

[Sal Destefano]

Is that because you would overshoot the volume?

[Adam Schafer]

Yes. So. So what would happen sometimes is I, you know, really press the volume.

[Sal Destefano]

Because you feel good?

[Adam Schafer]

Because I feel good. Over train a little bit. Then my, my. Then my next time coming back around to that exercise, I'd have to scale back because I'm still sore. I'M still recovering and I overshot the last one. And so what I would. What I. What would end up happening is I'd like, oh, my God, there's. It's like this.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

And then at the end of the 30 days, I'm lifting the same amount of volume as I was at the very beginning. And so I was like, wow, okay, I need to have a way more methodical approach to how I scale the volume. And it's a lot of what we. We communicate on this podcast, which. And also where the. The goal is to do as little as possible to elicit the most change. It's like, I knew that as long as I was staying where I did last week, and I just did a little bit more, you know, a five pound plate more or one more set, you know, that each week that I was progressively overloading the body. And that what that did was had this nice, consistent progressive overload versus this, peaks and valleys. And then when you pull back this, like, say, I was doing the same shit three months later, you know who's really, really.

[Sal Destefano]

Who really figured this out first in the strength world were the Olympic lifters.

[Adam Schafer]

They had to.

[Sal Destefano]

They did. It was either works or it doesn't.

[Justin Andrews]

That's what I love about it.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. And I pointed to them before, and it's just because it's the most scientific. It's the most studied from a scientific perspective, strength training. And it's only because countries compete against each other in the Olympics and during the Cold War, it was like, this was a way to display our superiority. So you had the Soviet Union, you had the U.S. you had Europe, and it was like, we're gonna put our best athletes out there, and if we have more medals, then that means, you know, communism is better or capitalism's better in the Soviet Union. You know, here in the US we don't, like, federally fund the athletes like the Soviet Union. They were like, they put their best scientists on this. They're like, no, we want the best athletes. We want to display to the world. And they literally studied strength training from an Olympic lifting perspective. And what you had in the early days, like in the 50s and 60s, when you really started seeing them take off, the way that our lifters trained was they just kind of pushed it. It was like linear progression. They just kind of pushed it all the time.

[Adam Schafer]

Yep.

[Sal Destefano]

And it was like, can I do more? Let's do more. Oh, I need to do less because I'm tired. I'll do less. The Soviets were methodical. Yep. And they really had this kind of like, whether you felt good or not, here's what we're doing. And they ended up doing phenomenally well. And it's because they calculated this all. They weren't just going into it based off of feel, which, by the way, based off of feel is okay. But when you really want to take it to the next level, what. That's why you got so granular.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, this was my. This was my inspiration. Sal was. Exactly. That was. And this is kind of what I focused on, so. Because it could get really crazy if you try. Because then the next question that gets asked when people ask how I did this. Well, how do you calculate buys and tries? Because you also do that. And I actually just focused on the main lifts.

[Sal Destefano]

Okay. And.

[Adam Schafer]

And you need control. Exactly. And I. Because I knew those were my biggest bang for my buck type of movements. They're the most taxing exercise for my movement. They're also where I was gonna. The. The biggest levers I could move for strength and adding muscle to my body. And so I really was like overhead press, bench press, the. The deadlift, squat, squat, the road. So these big. The big, big movers. And. And like a. Like a power lifter or an Olympic lifter would do. I would train at this kind of, like, moderate intensity for. For most of the week. And then I'd have my. Like, this is where I'm going to stretch that exercise. And I know what I did the last time I did it. And so can I get another set or can I get another £10 on the bar on that exercise? And can I do that week over week leading up into a show?

[Sal Destefano]

Right. So here's how you figure out volume. This is the formula. It's not perfect like Adam said, because you have crossover volume. An overhead press is going to add some volume to the triceps. A bench press is going to add volume to both the shoulders and the triceps. Even though it's a chest exercise, it's also not perfect, because when the reps get real high, it kind of skews the volume in another direction. So here's the formula. It's sets, times reps, times weight. So generally speaking, this is the volume formula. And so the way you explained it to me the first time made so much sense. So when I would increase volume, I would only look at sets. I didn't look at. If I got stronger, it didn't count as a set. Yeah, it was all set in reps. I didn't count reps either. It was just sets.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

But the reality is, if I did three sets of bench press with 225 pounds last week, this week, I did three sets of bench press With 230 pounds, my volume went up. Oh, yeah. Adding another set is now adding too much volume.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah, No, I watched poundage. Yes, it was total poundage in that lift per week.

[Sal Destefano]

That's the. That's the formula. Sets, times, reps, times. So if you add one rep to one set. So here's. Here's how you would apply this. If your volume goes up at all, you're good. So if you add one rep, good. If I add, you know, one set, fine. If I added a little bit of weight, good.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

That means your volume went up. And I like this because I think the mistake people make with increasing volume is they go as much as they can tolerate, which typically looks like more sets, more weight and more reps, which.

[Adam Schafer]

Which results in your following week naturally pulling back down, and then you average. And that is what I learned that I thought was that I was so, like, I. I love when we have moments in our. When we. And we share these as much as we can on the podcast that were, like, paradigm shattering moments for each of us. This was a paradigm shattering moment for a guy who had already been lifting for 15 years, thought he knew a lot about what he was doing, decided, I've never really tracked volume. Let's track this. Let's get to the poundage on it and go, oh, look what I'm doing. You know, this week I do £6,000 of whatever, you know, and then next week I do four because I was taxed from that. And then I go back up to six, and then when I look at it, I'm averaging five the whole time.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

So what it started to look like was this more like what I actually would. The goal I would give myself is I just didn't want to go backwards, so. Oh, okay. Like, and I didn't want to overdo it. So when I was starting a new.

[Sal Destefano]

Routine, so either progressing or staying the same.

[Adam Schafer]

That's right. So just don't go backwards. Like, so can I just. And. And what would. Would allow me to progress is one of those. That time when I hit that lift and I felt good, I was like, oh, I'm feeling good. I'm gonna. And then it was just a little bit. It wasn't like, I'm gonna do as much as I could tolerate. It's like, oh, I'm feeling good today. Today's the day. I'm gonna add an you know, extra whatever to my. My deadlift today or other. Today's the day I'm gonna add that extra rep or set, you know, and.

[Sal Destefano]

I like that you. You actually fixed a question that I had because. Because of the crossover volume, and it gets really. It could get really crazy. You're counting the big lifts, which you typically do first on the workout anyway.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Because you get. You can get really?

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, because, like, do you count? Like. Okay, here's the problem. Does three sets of pec deck is the same as three sets of a bench press? No.

[Adam Schafer]

No.

[Sal Destefano]

Or three sets of laterals the same as three sets of a. So you can't really count even if the weight is different because people say, oh, yeah, we'll use less weight or whatever. Okay, well, then would I do 10 sets of lateral raises is equal. And it gets really weird.

[Adam Schafer]

I'll give you my. My. Again, my nutrition analogy. It's like tracking macros versus getting all the way into the minutia of micronutrients.

[Producer/Host]

Y.

[Adam Schafer]

It's like. Well, yeah, there's obviously there's more to. Than just protein, carbs and fats, but the protein, carbs and fats is the. If you get that really dialed in, you can really move the needle in the right direction as far as your health.

[Sal Destefano]

So track like four main lifts.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes.

[Sal Destefano]

Sets, times, reps. And to be.

[Adam Schafer]

And to be even more transparent with how I did it, this is just my personal Was I cared actually most about the thing that I was really trying to improve for the next show. So if I got a fee. So if I was like. So if I was like.

[Sal Destefano]

Because you try to bump volume on everything.

[Adam Schafer]

That's right. So I'm not.

[Sal Destefano]

I'm not much.

[Adam Schafer]

Exactly. So I. I'm only really watching the main lifts. But if I was like, you know what? I really need to bring my legs up this. So this. So I'm not also pushing chest like crazy. Shoulders crazy. I'm really just. I'm paying attention to the volume in those legs. I'm paying attention to all the volume, and I don't want to go backwards on my other things, but I need to know that if I'm like, if I'm ramping up the. The leg volume, that, hey, I might take it easy on one of my strengths in one of other. Other lifts or whatever. Or back scale back. And so I would. So someone else is not training for a show. It would look like training blocks. It's like, okay, the next month or two, my focus or emphasis is shoulders. So that's really where I'm going to put the energy on trying to scale the volume week over week. And so that's what it would look like. And then other shows it would be like, oh, this is. I'm going to bring up my back.

[Sal Destefano]

What a great point. Because it's not just how much volume a body part can handle, it's cumulative for the whole body. Like, if I progress in my volume for squats, that's going to take away from my ability to recover from the rest of the body or at least contribute to it. So if I try to progressively overload my bench press, my row, my squats, my overhead press every week, week over week, too much at once. So you're gonna. I'm gonna go backwards.

[Adam Schafer]

You're gonna watch me do this with Karen right now. So one of the first things I did was I. I stripped her down to the very bare bones kind of lifts, which was like, you know, she's like, oh my God, you're taking all my volume and all my subway away from me. Right? I had to like tear it away from her. And she's constantly asking me, can I do more? Can I? It's like, no, this is where I want. And now what I will do with her as we're in this bulk and I, that I've stripped it down to just this kind of bare bones type of routine, I will look at her physique while we're building and go like, I want more of this on her. I want more shoulders or I want more glute, hamstring, whatever it may be. And then that now becomes the thing I really pay attention to in her training. And, and that will be where I push her volume wise. And I'll go, all right, you want more? This is what I'll let you. This is what you can do more of now. Or I.

[Sal Destefano]

We're.

[Adam Schafer]

And we're hitting. She's hitting PRs every week right now, so I don't have to really mess with anything. But eventually I'll get to a point where she'll adapt, we'll hit it. We'll kind of hit our calorie maintenance, where I think we are and stuff like that. I don't know if you guys know, we're, I mean, we. We're at 2, 600 calories right now. So we started 5, 600 calories more than. Oh yeah, we started this at 2,000 calories and a stretch for her to hit 21, 22.

[Sal Destefano]

That's great.

[Adam Schafer]

So we're at 2,600 calories right now and less volume in training.

[Sal Destefano]

And I'm glad you said that, because while you're scaling your volume up, you should not simultaneously be cutting your calories.

[Adam Schafer]

Right.

[Sal Destefano]

That's a terrible time to progressively overload.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

So, like. Like, when Adam competed, this was happening the off season. You were not doing this pre contest. No.

[Adam Schafer]

See, okay, now the opposite happens. When I. This was another thing that I thought was, like, a super hack for me or my competitive edge to my peers was I would watch these guys, as they get closer to showtime, start ramping up volume and intensity. They'd be sweating more in their workouts.

[Sal Destefano]

And pushing it really hard while their calories.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, while they're in this cut, like, in their head. Like, their idea was like, I'm sharpening up, getting ready for show. And I'm like, you saw me back off. I was just like, okay. I just needed. I need to. Intensity was start to way scale back. I'm not pushing hard on the cardio. I'm walking. I'm like. Because I know right now I'm trying to preserve all the muscle. I'm already sending this signal on. My body's not getting enough calories, so I want to just to just conveniently utilize fat as its main energy source or one of the main energy sources, because it's not getting a lot of glucose. The last thing I want to do is ramp intense a new level of intensity. When I'm also cutting calories, my body's gonna be like, not only are we not gonna build muscle, we're gonna need to use some of this shit.

[Sal Destefano]

In other words, if you're gonna tackle this, do it in a calorie sur. Don't do it in a deficit because you're. You're in. You're simultaneously increasing the recovering adaptation demands on the body while simultaneously reducing the nutrient intake, which is a recipe for overtraining. It's a recipe for disaster.

[Adam Schafer]

Totally.

[Sal Destefano]

If you want to. If you want to flat line and plateau or hurt yourself, then do that. But if you want to progressively overload, you also need to increase your calories. Otherwise, you got nothing to build off of.

[Adam Schafer]

And what's the. What's the method? Is it. Was it the Russians who did the. The two and a half pound thing first? Who was. Who's.

[Sal Destefano]

Who do you mean?

[Adam Schafer]

Who do you remember?

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, the little added incremental plates they would do.

[Producer/Host]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

And that's just another example of, like a little magnet. It Just a little magnet. Two and a half pounds. Like, everything else stays the Same, just two and a half pound and they.

[Sal Destefano]

Would even add half a pound.

[Adam Schafer]

And how strong that you get over that time. And so you what I. The biggest takeaway, if you. From this whole discussion that we've had right now, hopefully, that people get, is that what we tend to do is when we feel good, we overreach.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

And then when we overreach, we end up.

[Sal Destefano]

We.

[Adam Schafer]

Our bodies tell us we have to scale back the next week. And many times people have this experience. Oh, man, I just had a real discipline. Yeah. To not do that. It's hard to do that when you're like, oh, I'm feeling good. It's just like, oh, I'm just going to do a little more of what I need to and then. And then hang tight there and then see if I can keep building on that. Versus, man, I feel so good. And just hammering it. When you feel good and then now I don't feel so good, I back off. And then when you look at, when you back out 30 days, you stay the same.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, I see, like such a common issue. A lot of strength athletes I used to work with and you'd ride it up and you'd structure their volume and they would go deliberately by the numbers, not listening to their body, their fatigue, their, you know, overexerting, and then the next week just staying there. They're always trying to progress every day, every week, every workout, when in fact the right move a lot of times is to just stay there or scale back a little.

[Adam Schafer]

That's right. So that's.

[Sal Destefano]

That was always my approach.

[Adam Schafer]

My goal was always like, don't go backwards. Because I realized I did these peaks and valleys. I go, oh, man. Instead of me really always thinking about, oh, I feel good pushing it. How about. I just. I'm feeling good right now. Next week, let's not go backwards.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

And hey, if I feel even better next week than I did this week, maybe I'll add just a tiny bit or just stay the same. So it was like, stay the same or just a little bit every single week versus this attitude of like, oh, I feel good, let's go get it. Which we're all guilty of. Especially in the competitive space, it's also.

[Sal Destefano]

Important to control your intensity because you want to maintain the same level of intensity. So if I do the same volume this week as I did last week, but this week I go to failure. It's actually different.

[Justin Andrews]

It's a different.

[Sal Destefano]

Right. So set the intensity gauge. Usually it's two reps short of failure. Control that. So then sets, reps, and weight are consistent. Otherwise, if the intensity goes up and down, then volume doesn't really make. Then it's hard to calculate the volume appropriately because, well, my intensity changed with the whole thing. Keep the calories up. And then again, just so people understand this, with this formula, essentially, I know it's not perfect. So before I get the science nerds on here, well, this. Listen, I know it's not perfect perfect, but it's as close as something you can use and calculate to track and follow as you can get when it comes to strength training. Okay? So as long as you keep the exercises the same, the intensity the same bump your calorie intake. Sets times reps times weight is a nice metric to follow so long as you stay within the rep ranges that are considered muscle building. Once they get too high. It's crazy. Like, one set of a hundred reps of a bench press could look really weird on a. On a volume calculation. Yeah. But nonetheless, just to give you guys an illustration, if you did bench press 5 sets, 6 reps at a certain intensity versus 3 sets at 10 reps at the same intensity, you have the same volume or similar volume, the weight may actually make a difference. You got to calculate it out. It's not just adding sets. But I love this because just like you said, Adam, people, they don't realize they're constantly going forward and backward, forward and back, going forward and back. And then they don't realize why they're not progressing. And it's because training is a formula. It's, it's. It's scientific.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, listen, I mean, I love when I forget who I can credit to who I heard communicate this for. There's, There's a difference between exercise and training. Exercise is going into the gym and just doing a bunch of movements that are good for your body and stuff like that. Training is. You have a goal in mind that you're. You are going after and you are methodically training towards that. Meaning I am. I. Everything I do in here is with the intent of I'm trying to build more muscle or build more strength or change my physique. And if we're training, then this is such a valuable tool to at least peer into. Maybe you don't become. So I gotta stay there for like, yeah, I don't, I don't track volume all the time. Just like, I don't track macros all the time. But there. I agree. I think there's tremendous value of having done that so you can at least see your Tendencies and go like, oh, wow, I am.

[Sal Destefano]

Watch the trends.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. I am somebody who does. I didn't realize it because I. And because what it just like the macro tracking. I mean we know all the studies that show just by becoming aware of it, people automatically start to lose weight. And some of that just because they're. And I feel like the same thing happens with the, the tracking volume is you all of a sudden become aware of like, oh, in my head I haven't missed a day in the gym and so I should be perfect and progressing. But then when I look at what I've been doing, it's just like, oh, I've been over training, then under training, over training, under training. And then what it ends up. Okay. Is the same. And it's like, oh, no wonder I'm not, you know, changing.

[Sal Destefano]

All right, I want to talk about supplements here for a second because, you know, I was talking to Doug earlier and he's been using fish roe from Paleo Valley instead of fish oil.

[Adam Schafer]

What's the difference?

[Sal Destefano]

Fish rows are fish eggs. And so fish oil is literally. They take the oil from fish, extract it. And it's just that fish roe, the eggs are very high in omega 3 fatty acids, very high in DHA, which is a fatty acid that's good for the brain, but it also is full of nutrients. It's a complete food. So we're not just taking the oil, we're actually taking the complete food. So it's a food supplement. So what they have is a freeze dried fish roe in capsule form. So rather than taking the oil out and extracting it, it's like, here's a complete.

[Adam Schafer]

So I imagine it has, it has more benefits because it has more things. But then because it's not being extracted, it's a smaller concentration.

[Sal Destefano]

That's right. Vitamin D. That's right.

[Adam Schafer]

Or no, no, I mean omega.

[Sal Destefano]

Yes, yes. So it's a good, it's a good thing to combine. But you know, if this is. People have really rediscovered the value of eating organ meats and foods that are very nutrient dense. Fish roe is up there. My wife would eat a teaspoon of fish roe almost daily when she was pregnant because she. And now she did it. The gangster eat the fish roe. But because of the brain health benefits and, and the how with the development with the developing baby, it's so interesting. But it's cool because again, like you could, you could take B vitamins or you could eat, you know, freeze dried liver or iron or freeze dried liver or organ meats. You Know, you could take CoQ10 or you could take. Or you could eat heart, for example. So this has a lot of arguments for the whole food sources.

[Adam Schafer]

So this paleo Val, is it done like the way like you see it on sushi or is it like in a pill form?

[Producer/Host]

It's in a pill flow.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, so it's a freeze dried capsule. Yes.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, okay.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay.

[Sal Destefano]

So you get the anti inflammatory benefits. You get some of the nutrients that you'll find in fish roe that are good for you. It's good for heart health, but especially brain health. It's especially good for brain health. So it's a really good. Yeah. Supplement.

[Adam Schafer]

Are you on that?

[Sal Destefano]

I am.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, you're good.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. Doug takes a lot of supplements.

[Producer/Host]

I do. I'm probably number two. Number two.

[Adam Schafer]

Nobody beats Sal, but you for sure are a close second. Hey, I'm. I'm working on it.

[Sal Destefano]

You are? Dude.

[Adam Schafer]

Hey, I'm on.

[Sal Destefano]

You're a good third right now. I'm.

[Adam Schafer]

This is how many days I. Do you remember when that bs that. It's been like three months.

[Sal Destefano]

Three months, dude.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, I think three months. Well, three months since I kicked Kratom. Two months of training consistently because it was a month I could. There's. I didn't do. I didn't do anything for a month. But then. And yeah, it's been. I've now passed two. Two months. Monday I'll go get my DEXA scan. Super interested to see.

[Sal Destefano]

It's like you're starting. Yeah, it's not really starting because you've been working.

[Adam Schafer]

Well. Yeah, no, of course. But what'll be most interesting to me and I think. I don't know if I share this on the podcast or not. I know I shared with you last time I talked about this was the. I have all the Texas scans from the. The When I did the transformation thing and I'm coming from a different place. I always like this. I don't know if this is the. This is the dork in me when it comes to the. The science stuff and just it. I've done so many of these. I, I don't know how if you guys have done as many or as I have. I've done like probably well over a hundred.

[Sal Destefano]

You know, I've never done one DEXA scan.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, okay. Well, I mean DEXA body fat testing in general, like, like I've done hundred hundreds of these and I, I have seen my body fat percentage at. At a different weight from. As for everything from 185. All the way to 240 pounds. And I can tell you that I have a DEXA scan or a body fat test of awesome body fat percentage and a terrible body fat percentage at almost every single one of those weights, which I find that really, I think.

[Sal Destefano]

That'S like a lean 185 versus a fat 185.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes. Yeah, yeah. Which I think is super fascinating to think that with. With your own human body. Like, this is obviously my journey, but for everyone listening, it's like £185 to 240 is a huge difference in amount of weight on somebody's body. And yet I've got examples at like 5 pound increments all the way up of an awesome in shape version of me and a terrible in shape version of me on all of those. So it's always interesting to me.

[Sal Destefano]

You've probably done the least amount of body fat tests and stuff, right, Justin?

[Justin Andrews]

I mean, I've done a fair share, but mainly like when, whenever we've scheduled it for clients and stuff. I'll throw it in there. But yeah, probably, Yeah. I could probably do like 10, maybe 12 then. Not dexes underwater. Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Underwater, I've only done underwater.

[Adam Schafer]

I used to have the underworld. And the reason why he probably has a lot is I used to have the underwater come to our gym.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

And so all of my training, I.

[Justin Andrews]

Used to do it. Yeah. With my clients.

[Sal Destefano]

The first time I did underwater weighing, it's actually not. It's not comfortable. Like you got to get underwater. You gotta breathe every bit of air under the water, which isn't. Not very.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. And I used to think I'd like get a better result by like almost to the point where I was like almost throwing up. Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

I remember when I asked him one time because I thought that was so important. Like, oh, man. That's why I didn't hold the air bubbles. I'm like, hey, what's the difference if I don't let any out visit? And he's like, not even a quarter percent of body. It's like, oh, it's like this whole.

[Sal Destefano]

Time not that buoyant.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah, like 3%. That's why I didn't get the air out.

[Justin Andrews]

But that was the big reveal of like especially the cardio versus like lifting weights approach to like losing body fat. For me, it was the most revealing was like going through the competitions and stuff we used to do and it was like, like substantially different. When you're like more cardio based and you're like, yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Your body fat was such A valuable tool to use Dexa, or your. Or your hydrostatic way to get body fat testing. And not because what the number says. And this is again, like, what I get so excited about going into this, even though I've done it a hundred plus times, is I'm so interested to just what it tells me because I've done it enough times to go like, oh, this is what I'm. What I'm gonna do from here. Like, example, like, what do I mean by that? Well, I'm gonna come into this thing probably in the high 228 range, like weight, which is a high weight for me. Now, if. And I. I know what a lot of lean body mass looks like on me when I'm over 203lbs of lean body mass. That's a lot of lean body mass. That's really good, right? Low. Anything below 190 would be low for me. And so if I come in there and I'm at. I don't really care about what the exact percentage is, but if I've only got 180 pounds of lean body mass on me and then I'm carrying a lot of body fat, I'll still stay on the game train of building muscle.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, dude, you want that metabolic powerhouse.

[Adam Schafer]

Exactly. But if I get on there and I'm like, oh, wow, I've built back up over 200 pounds of muscle, I'm in a good place to lean back out. And so I don't really care if it says 16%, 18%, 13%.

[Sal Destefano]

What do you guess your body fat is going to be when you test it? Mid teens, low teens.

[Adam Schafer]

15 to 16. Yeah, 15 to 16. Yeah, that's my guess. But I mean, I'm normally pretty close. I'd say, yeah, I. I'd say pro. I'll be really happy with 15. I'm probably around 16 something. I could be as high as 16, nine maybe. I don't know. Like. And that'll. It will tell on just how. How much muscle I've built. That will dictate how much.

[Sal Destefano]

Of course.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Because I. I know I've put some muscle back on. I feel good. I'm not very strong in the gym right now. That makes me a little nervous. So we'll see.

[Sal Destefano]

You're careful, though, too, at the way you've had a couple injuries.

[Adam Schafer]

I know. So I'm. I'm super careful right now. I'm not, I'm not. I. I want. It's. I'm in. I'm in an interesting place right now. Part of Why I want to cut and go the other direction is so I can get away from focusing on you. Because I, I'm, I'm. I've been at the same kind of weights and I really, like yesterday I was dumbbell pressing again. And like the 80s are just like flying around. But I'm so scared to go 90, 100, 120s and move back to that kind of way. And so I'm just like high reps slowing it down. All the things we talk about because of the pec tear.

[Sal Destefano]

And so I've been really trying to wrap my mind around and just really get my head space around changing my training to what I told you guys, where I go. Alternate strength training. One week. One week cardio, slash kind of functionality. And so I'm really just trying to get my head in the right place. Because if it's not in the right place, I know what's going to happen is I'll very quickly back out or turn it into, you know, more strength training.

[Justin Andrews]

So we officially started this or.

[Sal Destefano]

No. So I'm going to start in like a week or two. Okay. And what it's going to start with, I'm going to start real slow. So it'll be like how I normally work out one week, then the next week it'll be just boring cardio. Just get on, listen to a book or a podcast or something like that and just get my stamina up a little bit. And then what? I'll. And then Fridays, I'm gonna do unconventional stuff because I still film with Dylan on Fridays. And so I'll probably be in here doing just embarrassing myself with like windmills and stuff that I'm terrible at that I know I need to work on like lateral stability, rotation, that kind of stuff. And then it'll probably. I don't know if I'll change my mind with this, but I want to get better at swimming because I, I can swim to not drown. But truth be told.

[Justin Andrews]

I totally empathize with you.

[Sal Destefano]

High bar there. Like, truth be told.

[Adam Schafer]

Are you a bad swimmer, too?

[Justin Andrews]

I'm like, I, I'm okay. I'm like an okay swimmer. I just, I don't, I don't do well with it long term. Like, I really get uncomfortable, like, if I have to be in the water for too long. Like, I like wakeboarding and I like doing water sports.

[Adam Schafer]

A life vest and a board attachment.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. I'm like, I can't be out there just like swimming. Yeah. Because I'm just dog paddling and feeling like I'M gonna die.

[Sal Destefano]

So it's so mental. It's so mental because when I was a kid, I was a great swimmer and then I didn't swim for a long. My mom and I think I live.

[Justin Andrews]

At the beach when I was a.

[Sal Destefano]

Kid, by the way. This makes me, like, aware. Like, your fears, your kid will pick up on them.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes, for sure. Oh, dude.

[Sal Destefano]

So if you say, like, ah, this is scary, like a spider scary, your.

[Adam Schafer]

Kids can be like, my wife has done this with. My wife is allergic to bees. And every once in a while we have bees because our neighbors out. Yeah. So now my son thinks he's like, max is not scary. Exactly. And, like, they're not scary.

[Sal Destefano]

So I grew up. My mom is terrified of the water. If she goes in, it goes up to her knees and she's out. She's just always had this fear of water. So I haven't swam for a long, like, legit swam for a long time. So if, like, if you guys were to invite me on, like a houseboat or you're like, hey, we're going to go to the. We're going to go swim in the ocean. Like, for sure. I get anxiety. I, like, will legit get anxiety. Like, what if I. And I know it's not logical, so I'm like, you trying to use that as motivation. Because the gym I go to, they have a pool and I want to do this cardio thing. So I'm like, you know what? I'm gonna try and get over this now.

[Adam Schafer]

You don't think. You don't think that's biting off more than you can chew at the same time?

[Sal Destefano]

No, I think it's actually. You might be right, dude. Because I'm talking right now.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. I mean, just my opinion, but you could be totally different. I know that when I'm doing something, like, out of my comfort zone, like adding more layers of things that are out of my comfort zone doesn't help the.

[Sal Destefano]

No, let me be clear. I'm not jumping in a deep pool.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, I know, but still, I'm not.

[Sal Destefano]

Going to be scared.

[Adam Schafer]

I know, but my point is, you would never go swim anyways because it's not something you love to do. So you're already challenging yourself to do something you wouldn't love to do, which I commend you for, but so is also getting on a cardio. Basically.

[Sal Destefano]

You might be right. But here's where my. Here's where I'm not sure. I think if I go in with the mentality of I'm Just going to get better at swimming so I can enjoy things with my family. Because that's the motivating factor. Because my wife, she's like, she's trying to book these short trips throughout the year.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Because oftentimes we have these, you know, three day, four day weekends. And she's like, well, I want to go do a lake house and I want to get a houseboat. And I can already feel inside of me like I'm not going to enjoy that because I don't feel comfortable. So I feel like it might be a nice other focus, you know, like, get in there. I'm not in here to work out. I'm here to learn how to swim type of deal.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay.

[Sal Destefano]

So if you see me at the gym, don't make fun of me. Absolutely.

[Justin Andrews]

One of those little caps.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, just. I did all that, bro.

[Adam Schafer]

Remember when I went on myself, dude, I'm not, I'm not a good swimmer.

[Sal Destefano]

You're a hella good swimmer.

[Adam Schafer]

Was trying.

[Producer/Host]

Yeah, you're a good swimmer.

[Sal Destefano]

You're a really good swimmer. What are you talking about?

[Adam Schafer]

I did not have good technique. I definitely did.

[Sal Destefano]

I learned a lot.

[Adam Schafer]

I actually got.

[Sal Destefano]

I built to swim, bro.

[Adam Schafer]

That's true. That. That is true. I'm built to swim. And so that because of that, I get, I get away with it.

[Sal Destefano]

Like, not built to swim now, bro.

[Adam Schafer]

The worst part is I've done so.

[Justin Andrews]

Much of it, you know, like growing up and I was like live in.

[Adam Schafer]

The pool, see the water splashing, water.

[Sal Destefano]

Splashing his big old legs and ass. And I could just drag it over.

[Adam Schafer]

I could picture just.

[Justin Andrews]

I make a great cannonball, dude.

[Adam Schafer]

Justin and I are racing in the water, you know, So I could just see this.

[Sal Destefano]

Just like this.

[Adam Schafer]

You wouldn't even see him.

[Sal Destefano]

You see water.

[Adam Schafer]

Like a Tasmanian devil in the water. Just like, that's what it would look like.

[Sal Destefano]

But I, you know, when I was a kid and we would go to the beach or when we were visiting my family in Sicily, I go out and I just swim in the ocean.

[Adam Schafer]

Like the normal ocean.

[Sal Destefano]

You wouldn't, you can't catch me dead doing that.

[Adam Schafer]

Now that's so interesting.

[Sal Destefano]

Like, I like, I'm like, I'm either.

[Justin Andrews]

Going to drown out of practice, bro.

[Adam Schafer]

You're also a. You also have a lot more muscle.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

That does not work to your benefit.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. Would you.

[Adam Schafer]

Are you, Are you. Because I'm considering.

[Sal Destefano]

I may hire someone at some point.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, I'm, I'm considering doing it with you. So would that help or not help?

[Sal Destefano]

That would not help.

[Adam Schafer]

That wouldn't help.

[Sal Destefano]

No. Having someone there, I want to go.

[Adam Schafer]

I have no interest. No, I mean, like, because I, I go get. On Monday, I go get my, my desk.

[Sal Destefano]

You mean, you mean following this approach?

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah, because I, I figured this one. I, I've already been trying to create more activity because we're so sedentary. And so the. That's already been something I've been introducing and I, I kind of want to play with that way of, of training.

[Sal Destefano]

I think it would be a great program to write. Yeah, right. So I want to experiment.

[Adam Schafer]

So, so part of me is like, okay, I, it, You know, maybe I would do that to. When I could switch over to lean out process. That would help work well with that direction. And if it also supports you in that direction, then that maybe there's enough things.

[Sal Destefano]

What I'm praying for time in my life when I was the least dysfunctional, because I've always been dysfunctional, but the least dysfunctional with strength training was when I did jiu jitsu. And it was because exactly how I coach people, someone comes to me with eating disorder or whatever. The way you don't coach them is you say, hey, don't do that thing anymore. It doesn't work. You just say, hey, focus over here instead. So you get somebody with an eating disorder, I'm going to try and focus on getting you stronger. And if you can focus on getting stronger, it typically takes care of the rest of the. So I'm praying for a desire to improve my, my stamina and endurance. And if I can get to the point where I start to enjoy that, yeah, it won't be a problem. But if it's like, you know, I gotta fix this thing with building muscle, it's not gonna happen, dude. Like, I like it.

[Producer/Host]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

It's the wrong motivation.

[Sal Destefano]

Wrong. It's just not gonna work.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah, it's wrong.

[Sal Destefano]

I'll just keep doing it. Speaking of which, dude, it's so funny you were making fun of me the other day because I, I've been come back from a weekend of eating gluten and I just hold water.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

And. And so then I cleaned up my diet and I'll draw, fluctuate easy, four or five pounds of water, easy.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

And there's a. There's one positive. I don't know if this is really positive, but one thing I like about holding water is when I lift, the pumps are ridiculous.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

So I'll come in feeling kind of like, oh, man, I'm holding water. My head doesn't feel right. And then I'll work out. Oh, I'm messing.

[Adam Schafer]

I mean, off air.

[Sal Destefano]

I get the best pups off air.

[Adam Schafer]

We were talking about this because I. So this happened to me. I have it. So I've been again, I'm pretty dialed in right now. I'm not crazy dialed in, but I'm dialed in as far as hitting my protein and eating, making good choices, making most my meals, and I indulged in ice cream the night before last.

[Sal Destefano]

Well, tell them how much.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, like 2 or 3,000 calories worth of ice cream.

[Sal Destefano]

One time.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. At one time. Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Post night after I did all my other stuff. Right. So I ate good all day long. Trained everything like that.

[Sal Destefano]

So you.

[Adam Schafer]

So the justification, let me tell you.

[Sal Destefano]

How much is that.

[Adam Schafer]

It's, it's, I mean, it's what you call it. What's the, what's the cold stone? Yeah, and it's, you know, they pack it with cookie dough and chocolate and all kinds of other stuff too. So it's not just the ice cream, dude. So I know. And I told myself, when I have it, I'll just try.

[Sal Destefano]

Halfway through. Are you feeling like.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

But you just keep going.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, that's like. But you know, you know how this one goes. I go, I get a little bit more than halfway. I'm like, well, this is, I'll be angry at myself to go get this later when I want. When I have a craving for it. It's only this much, so I may.

[Sal Destefano]

As well finish this. This is the smoke. The whole pack of cigarette y. Yeah, yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

And also I know I'm going into my Dexa scan right now, and I'm like, I'm in reverse bulk Mode and a 1% higher body fat to me, I care less about than actually having more muscle. So this is also part of the justification. So anyways, I, I, I slam all these calories. I know it's a super high calorie day for me. And then in the morning, I typically eat a really light breakfast right now and, and are lower on calories until we get to about mid morning to mid afternoon. Katrina did this thing this weekend that was really cool. Shout out to one of our partners. I know it's not one of their commercials, but Butcher box has chorizo and we made like a egg chorizo breakfast burritos for like the whole week. And so I had three of those.

[Justin Andrews]

Whoa.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. All at once.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Which, you know, so the, the tortilla alone plus the eggs, plus the tortilla.

[Sal Destefano]

Thousand calories.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Yeah. Probably a thousand calorie breakfast. So I haven't had a workout and then I had another meal and then I worked out in the afternoon.

[Sal Destefano]

I bet you're pumped.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh my God, dude. I, I forgot what it felt like to feel like that. I haven't lifted like that in a long time where I was loaded. And also like.

[Sal Destefano]

And the sodium.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, everything. Yeah, the sodium high. I, I had sugar.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Good on all my other macros too.

[Sal Destefano]

So I'm drinking water.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes. I was just. I look like Yesterday I gained 10 pounds of muscle.

[Sal Destefano]

That's the best.

[Adam Schafer]

And felt like it too.

[Sal Destefano]

Just. That's the best.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Just the water bump.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Mind you, I felt a strong too, you know that's.

[Sal Destefano]

You'll also. 8. I'm stronger when I'm holding.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, way stronger. My point of bringing up the. I was, I was wonder why that is. And the 80s felt like they were just. I was like man, I gotta go heavier. And I. And I disciplined that. What I'm most proud of is that I disciplined myself not to was like, stay here. I don't, I don't need to go.

[Sal Destefano]

You want to know what's crazy? I was reading this article, I knew about this already, but they were. I don't remember what the. I wish I, I saved the article. But they actually showed percentages. So there's lots of things that influence strength. Right. Muscle size will influence it. Recruitment patterns influence it how? Well, your central nervous system like puts out that power influences it, but so does your tendon attachments. That's just mechanical leverage. Like if you look at my bicep, you know where it attaches here in my forearm. If it attaches just a quarter of inch further down here, you know much a difference that makes and how much weight I can lift.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

So in this article they were talking about how a lot of these strength athletes, like we meet people like, like Mike Salemi is a good example, is he's not a big dude. If you meet him, you're like eh, how much? 600 pound deadlift. What?

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Like where does that come from?

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

I bet you if we, if we, if we pull all those buttons. I know, I wonder. Tendons look like his tendons are probably attached at these really crazy optimal places. Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

That's just another way.

[Adam Schafer]

Not to mention the CNS part that we talk about of course. Like. Yeah, just his, his technique.

[Sal Destefano]

But like if you're building a machine. What's that thing? What's that. That quote, if you give me a pulley large enough, I can long enough, I can lift the world. Who is it that said that? That's an old. It's an ancient. But it's basically like levers and pulleys and this is how we move heavy things.

[Justin Andrews]

Biomechanics.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. This is your body, dude. If your tendons attach a little bit in an advert, like a little bit makes a big difference.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

And how much you can lose that.

[Justin Andrews]

Is it about isometrics and how that really like addresses like tendon strength?

[Sal Destefano]

It's better for tendon.

[Justin Andrews]

Better than most other techniques.

[Sal Destefano]

Tendon stiffness.

[Adam Schafer]

Do you think that most logical way to explain something like, what is it? Was it stone? Stonehenge or Stonehenge or whatever the.

[Sal Destefano]

Oh, how they moved it.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, they probably did like a really long lever in order to.

[Producer/Host]

Aliens.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

It's funny you mentioned that because, like, there was. There was actually this theory for building of pyramids that I hadn't heard before. And I thought it was actually pretty logical that they actually built. Because they had other pyramids in mind back in the day. They. They built it way bigger to scale than it is currently, even the Great Pyramid. So they built it so there's like ramps along the outside and then they start at the top and then kind of scaled their way down carving. Carving it off and all the excess material they would deliver over and repurpose it to the next pyramid. And so if you see like. So they started actually like on a hillside where it was like flattened, like hill area. So that way they could start the top part and kind of build their.

[Adam Schafer]

Way down or carve their way down.

[Justin Andrews]

Carve their way down.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

So anyway, it just. It seemed a little bit more logical that way.

[Sal Destefano]

The theory that I find most interesting is that the pyramids were there before the Egyptians. Well, yeah, because you see water erosion and stuff that could only have been possible.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, not only that, but the part that makes that one hard to believe is the other stuff. How it aligns with the stars so perfectly and so that. Which is weird because it's like, like for.

[Sal Destefano]

For.

[Justin Andrews]

There's so much for.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Like for a hillside to also be like perfectly aligned with.

[Sal Destefano]

Or it was technology given to them by. By, you know, their false gods or demons.

[Adam Schafer]

Hey, I am.

[Justin Andrews]

I make it weird immediately.

[Adam Schafer]

I. I take back. Everything is possible, bro. Everything is possible now. And there's definitely. I mean, the stuff that's coming out with these. These Epstein files is just. Man, does that make you feel sick Inside that our. Our society and gatekeepers. Like, what was there, 3 million. 3 million emails. Emails. And I mean, just the amount of sifting through all that, it's gonna be.

[Sal Destefano]

Weird to see what happens. I think what you said, Justin, is probably true. Nothing.

[Adam Schafer]

Nothing, Nothing. It's too. It's too. You know why? Because no side wins. Yeah. Like, I mean, I've seen stuff with, like, Dalai Lama involved. I see. I mean, it's just got. It's got everybody. It's got. It's got politicians, it's got actors and.

[Sal Destefano]

Actresses, both sides of the aisle.

[Justin Andrews]

Literally, the gateway.

[Adam Schafer]

It's got medicine people. It's got. I mean, dude, it's got everybody.

[Sal Destefano]

Did you say medicine people? Hey, I got, you know, I got to bring something up that's kind of crazy. So. So my. I'll tell you where this came from. So Jessica just. She got over like a cold virus, and then she had this cough that just wouldn't go away. And basically it was an asthmatic kind of cough. So sometimes viral infections can trigger this. And so you're not sick anymore, but then you get this, like, incessant cough. Right. And my wife. This will happen to her. And so I was like, I think that's asthmatic. And so I have a rescue inhaler. Because I grew up with asthma, I rarely ever use it, but I always have it. And we had to get her a steroid inhaler. So there's two types of inhalers you use for asthma. One of them dilates the bronchial tubes and it's immediate. The other one is an anti inflammatory inhaled steroid because the tubes themselves can get inflamed. Now here, I'll tell you where this is going. So as a kid, I had asthma pretty regularly. Like I would say six months out of the year. I'd say six months out of the year for years, I would use a steroid inhaler daily. So every day I'd inhale a steroid inhaler, and then I'd use my rescue inhaler when it would get real bad on top of it. And so I looked it up. Now, steroids, corticosteroids, I should say they have side effects, and there's less side effects when you inhale them. But they still get systemic. Yeah, they, they. It's been shown in studies that it blunts growth in kids. Chronic use blunts growth in kids. And so I'm like, did I blunt? Did I, like, affect? And so here's my evidence of it. So I'm six foot tall.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay, five, eleven and a half.

[Sal Destefano]

No. Why do you say that?

[Justin Andrews]

Aiming his way to six, bro.

[Adam Schafer]

I'm sorry, I know I'm starting a rumor on that There's. Okay, I have a reason for this. Do you know that, do you know that guy, the Wes Watson guy? Okay. Do you know that one of the things he gets madly like trolled because he claims to be 6 foot and like everybody says he's shorter than 11 and it's like one of the things that drives you the most crazy gets.

[Sal Destefano]

So I would say I don't care.

[Adam Schafer]

I wanted to be shorter when I was kidding. That's where it comes from for me because I know that he's been trolled so hard on that you react as.

[Justin Andrews]

Everybody'S is going to double down.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, yeah. I'm exactly 6 foot anyway. But my, my hands and feet measure for somebody who should be about 6, 2. So I don't know if you know that there's average shoe sizes and hand sizes for people who are six 1, 6 foot, 5, 10, whatever. And I've known this. I know my feet are. I wear a size 12, 12 and a half shoe.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

I think it's the same. What are you, six, two, six, three?

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, six three.

[Sal Destefano]

And I'm so, I'm like. And when you stunt growth, it doesn't stunt in the, in those areas, it'll stunt like your legs and your upper. So I probably should have been. Oh man. And my brother's like 16.

[Adam Schafer]

I like how you scienced your way to that.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Should have been a lot taller, dude.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, I should have been taller, dude.

[Adam Schafer]

How'd that explain Justin, huh?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. My dad's 6 7. My brother's like 6 3.

[Sal Destefano]

That's just genetics.

[Justin Andrews]

Come on dude, throw me a bone. Yeah, give me a science excuse.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, you don't wear. What size shoe do you wear? You don't wear 12, do you?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, well, 11 and a half.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, see that's. It's typically for six foot, I think the range is 10 and a half to 11 and a half. And then outside of that is like considered, you know, outside of the range or whatever.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

So yeah. You know what to say about.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, yeah, I'm good there.

[Sal Destefano]

We'll stop right there. Anyway, listen, we have an Our Place commercial and we have a new.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, what do we got?

[Sal Destefano]

What do they say?

[Producer/Host]

Listen.

[Adam Schafer]

Hey, guy, who's opened the box? Box?

[Producer/Host]

Yeah, yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Whose is this last time you just. I have no idea.

[Producer/Host]

They don't tell us there's some boxes.

[Justin Andrews]

Somebody's gonna take it home.

[Adam Schafer]

And we don't know. Like. Yeah, last time it ended up working out, we got what was supposed to be, but Katrina is. All of us have put in, like, what we want. And then.

[Sal Destefano]

So some of that is mine. Some of that's just.

[Adam Schafer]

That's right.

[Sal Destefano]

That's right.

[Producer/Host]

We need to have a list. I don't know.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, yeah. Okay.

[Producer/Host]

You're welcome to take.

[Adam Schafer]

Maybe let our producer know.

[Sal Destefano]

Well, listen.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, listen.

[Sal Destefano]

I have one of the small pants we cook eggs in, and it's bro, it's the best. No Forever chemicals. It doesn't have.

[Adam Schafer]

It is the easiest. It is the easiest pan I have to clean.

[Sal Destefano]

And there's none of the crazy chemicals. That's amazing.

[Adam Schafer]

You know, my favorite part is that I think is I don't know why every other company hasn't done this. Does that one have it? Yes, that one has it too. See that little. That little knob? See a little knob on the notch on the handle? Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Your spoon can rest there.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes. One of my big. Okay, okay. I know that cleans the kitchen. I'm the one that. This is like a peter.

[Sal Destefano]

When it goes on the counter.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes, it goes on the counter and then the food and stuff gets stuck on there and it's always a pain. And clean. It's like.

[Justin Andrews]

Right.

[Adam Schafer]

And. Or I'm always trying to rest a plastic, you know, spatula on a hot pot, which will melt it. So you can't do that and so it annoys me. Or you can't use a metal one.

[Sal Destefano]

That's a good pot to cook rice in.

[Producer/Host]

Well, the nice thing is it's nonstick and it's ceramic. No Forever chemicals.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, they're light and they're super light.

[Producer/Host]

They have a three year old warranty on them.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Producer/Host]

And free shipping returns. You can try it out for 100 days. If you don't love it, you can return it.

[Sal Destefano]

They're pots and pans.

[Adam Schafer]

I love that we're doing this now where we're opening up and we're giving them to us. Because I'm close to, like, switching out everything I have to them.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, I want my whole kitchen to be out.

[Producer/Host]

There's something to note on this lid here is kind of cool. They have a strainer on one side, it's open on the other, and you can just twist it. So if you want steam, you don't have any air or steam escaping. But when it's time to, like, pour or strain something out, say you're doing Pasta. All you do is turn to the side.

[Adam Schafer]

So that's. Hold the lid on.

[Sal Destefano]

That's a good pasta and rice. That's it right there.

[Producer/Host]

Perfect for that.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. Or vegetables, if you like to boil vegetables. Yeah, I mean, I. If you. When I learned the chemicals that are in nonstick stuff. Yeah. Oh, God.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, isn't that like one and two right there? Receipts. And then the pots and stuff that we cook.

[Sal Destefano]

Cooking cookware is the worst.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, I thought the receipts were.

[Producer/Host]

Well, the problem with a lot of people is they. They use metal utensils on their pots and they scrape it up and then you're just eating that stuff.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah, It's. It's amazing. What is it that they. They put on it to where it cleans like that, though?

[Sal Destefano]

Ceramic.

[Producer/Host]

It's ceramic.

[Sal Destefano]

So that's very, very high quality, expensive ceramic.

[Producer/Host]

It's called thermicind.

[Sal Destefano]

But it clean.

[Adam Schafer]

It cleans like, because that was a selling point for the Teflon pans was like, how. How easy it is to clean. This cleans easier. And it's better for you.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, way better.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

So interesting. Yeah. I love. And you have their air fryer.

[Justin Andrews]

I do. I love it.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. I. Which, by the way, air fryers are the worst offenders, typically.

[Adam Schafer]

I didn't know that until you brought that up. Yeah. Who figured that out? Your wife?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, my wife.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, of course. Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

She's.

[Justin Andrews]

She's all into this.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, well, we. We. We wouldn't get an air fryer because of that. Because I couldn't find any.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, you. Oh, you.

[Sal Destefano]

Before we knew that before. Before we were working with our place.

[Adam Schafer]

There was a point there where I was talking about air fryer.

[Sal Destefano]

I talked to you about everything. You warm up your stuff in plastic.

[Adam Schafer]

No, I just did that.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. I told you for years.

[Adam Schafer]

Doug got me to change that.

[Sal Destefano]

Why don't you listen to me? As always was done.

[Adam Schafer]

Doug has.

[Sal Destefano]

Doug has better delivery. Dude.

[Adam Schafer]

You try to bully me into it. So then everyone just like you. Just like you, bro. If I try to tell you what to do, I gotta go around. I gotta go around and get some. I gotta call Jessica. I gotta call Jessica to get you.

[Sal Destefano]

To do something that is. That is the worse. Joy Mode is a before performance supplement. And by performance, I mean intimate performance makes a big difference. There's compounds in Joy Mode that have been backed by data to improve blood flow. So you get relaxed blood vessels, more blood flow, things get firmer, you last longer. It's stronger. It really works. Our audience loves it. We get tons of comments on using Joy Mode 45 minutes to 4 hours prior to sexual activity. It's a pre workout that you take before the most important workout of the day. Of course, go check them out. Get yourself 20% off. Go to tryjoymode.com mindpump Use the code mindpump. Get 20% off. Back to the show.

[Producer/Host]

First question is from Coach Cowboy James, CPT. Are there actual benefits to vibration plates or is it just another gimmick in the fitness industry?

[Sal Destefano]

The way that they advertise them is a gimmick. So they advertise them for and they'll say it helps with fitness, builds more muscle, it's a great way to work out. It's none of those things, but it is helpful to reach deeper ranges of motion to work on mobility. In a mobility protocol. I can see value in using a vibration plate. And the reason why it works is like, let's say you're trying to get into a deep squat and you get stuck. When you stand on a vibration plate, the vibration actually gets the central nervous system to start to relax and you'll be able to move deeper into that Override your governing. It overrides the governing to an extent.

[Adam Schafer]

Just like what pressure points or massage therapy does to a muscle. Right. So one of the, when you have really tight, stiff muscles and you get this deep tissue massage, that's what that does is it overrides the CNS relaxes and then all of a sudden you're like, oh, wow, it feels so good.

[Justin Andrews]

Arguably cheaper. So yeah, it's hard for me to kind of push the vibration plates for the price point.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, I'm not a fan. This is also like, because it got so much popularity, they now have all the cheap version gimmicky ones. So. Yeah, because originally I thought these like were all like dug and pull it up right now vibration plates on Amazon and you can get them for next to nothing.

[Sal Destefano]

You need a pretty strong vibration plate to make a difference. Yeah, it's not going to be just like a, you know, weak. I remember years ago I put a foam roller that vibrated and you found.

[Justin Andrews]

Out it was really inside it.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, that's another story. But it didn't, I mean it didn't really do anything. It wasn't strong enough like the real expensive vibration plates, which I don't think are worth the investment. But if you go to a gym with one, try doing like they get.

[Adam Schafer]

Ones for 199 bucks.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, the big ones are much more expensive.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh yeah, the big ones are like five to Ten thousand dollars.

[Sal Destefano]

That's right.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. So they're.

[Justin Andrews]

I actually like those.

[Sal Destefano]

They're.

[Justin Andrews]

They're like lacrosse ball size and they vibrate because. Yeah, if you're doing any kind of quote unquote, myofascial release, like that's, you know, helpful.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. But like static stretching on one, mobility on them. It's like if it takes me, if it would take me 60 seconds or 120 seconds, like 2 minutes, 3 minutes to get into a position, I can get into it in 15 or 20 seconds on a vibration plate.

[Adam Schafer]

So do a, do a lunge to a single leg balance and you'll get all more benefits than what you get from your.

[Sal Destefano]

Well, the way they sell it is so wrong.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, yeah, no, it's all, that's my point though. Like the, in any, any bit of like stability involvement or anything like that was do it. Do a single leg toe touch, do a lunge to a balance and any. Toward any sort of benefit that they try and sell you on this, you'll get more from that.

[Sal Destefano]

So what you'll see with some studies is they'll compare vibration plate to nothing and there'll be like a little bit of a bone strengthening effect or whatever. Super minimal. It's like if you're looking to strengthen your bones and your muscles, like do some body weight strength training exercises, it'll crush what a vibration plate does. But for. If I was training in a gym, in training clients, I would use it for specific mobility. And that's about it. If I own the gym, I would not spend five grand on one. I'd be like, not a worthwhile investment.

[Adam Schafer]

No, no.

[Producer/Host]

Next question is from Ferrand Faust. I'm new to lifting with a barbell and I have a home gym. I frequently lift when I am home alone. My goal is to progress to heavy squats, but I'm afraid of hurting myself for getting stuck at the bottom. What is the best rep range for me?

[Sal Destefano]

I mean, you can get hurt with any rep range if you do it wrong. You know, theoretically that lower rep ranges with heavier weight have a higher risk of injury, but that's when you start to get really strong. So I'd like to touch on this. If you have poor stability, sometimes a higher rep ranges are worse for people. If you're lifting a lot of weight, then I could see why this would be an issue. But you know, low to high rep ranges, they're all good. If you have a home jam, if you have safeties. Well, there you go, right there.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Or learn how to dump the barbell.

[Justin Andrews]

Exactly. I think that's a skill everybody that's, you know, working with barbells should learn anyways. I really feel like that's something that's way overlooked. If you learn how to actually dump the barbell effectively, this isn't even an issue.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. I wish we had a little bit more information about this client and like what is. How much are you able to lift right now? Can you just do the bar? Have you added 10 pounds to it? Because you know, heavy, heavy squatting is relative to the client and where they're currently at. I also want to comment on the. The value of actually loading it versus kind of nothing. I've talked about this before on the podcast. Like if you watch me do a 135, 135 pound squat, which is basically a plate on each side for me, is really light versus 225 and above. My heavier loaded squat looks better. Yeah. Because it's, it's enough weight that I have to really brace. I'm more rigid and controlled.

[Sal Destefano]

Gets around a little of the tightness because it forces.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes. Where when I'm so light, I'm, I'm kind of loose and it's, it's almost too light. So. And I found this with clients when I, when I find a good weight that's challenging for them. I'm not trying to PR them or anything, but challenging enough that, hey, working six to eight reps is, is hard. I, I see some of the best mechanics when I, when I put like just the bar on there. I teach a squat. They seem to be flimsy and all over the place because their legs are plenty strong enough to push up that 45 pounds. But they're not locked into enough to where it's loaded where, oh, they really brace the core and posture upright like so there's some value to loading it to where it's challenging. Just go slow. I mean, load it to where six to eight reps is difficult but doable. And, and then slowly try and increase that weight over time.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. You focus on your, your technique and your form and staying stable and not wobbling and perfect it. You can actually not add weight and just get better with your form, which will start to make it feel a little bit more difficult. And that's also progressing. So focus on that and then practice dumping the bar. And dumping the bar literally is like you're stuck at the bottom and you can get it off your back.

[Justin Andrews]

Bucket off.

[Sal Destefano]

By the way, this is an easy thing to do. The the reason why people don't like to do it is they're scared of dropping the bar. They think it's me loud or whatever. Just practice it a couple times with the plate, and you'll see it's not a big deal. And then it's really easy to get out from under a squat by doing that. But if you have safeties, if you have a. A squat rack. Most home gym squat racks these days have some kind of a safety.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, the safety arms. And you set it just below.

[Adam Schafer]

Also, if you're working in this, if you choose a weight that I'm telling you should be challenging for six to eight, nothing says that while you're on rep four, you go, oh, wow, this is getting really hard. I don't know if I can get out the bottom. Stop. Four like you.

[Sal Destefano]

Yes.

[Adam Schafer]

You don't need to. To choose a weight that is like pushing you to failure. Again, choose a weight that you think is difficult to go six or eight. Let's pretend. Set one, you get eight. Set two, you only get seven. Set three, you barely get six. Okay, so set four, you drop. You stop at five or four. Like, there's. There's nothing wrong with that. But a lot of times you'd be surprised on how strong. I mean, those are your glutes getting you out of that hole. And our glutes are the strongest part of our lower body. And so those. Those muscles tend to be much stronger than people realize. And also why there's such so much value in training that. But, you know, start slow, take your time. Choose a. Choose a weight for 6 to 8 reps. Be okay if you have to stop at 4 and slowly add weight over time.

[Producer/Host]

Next question is from Burke himself. What grip type of pressing movement would be the easiest on the rotator cuff?

[Sal Destefano]

So here's the thing with this. First off, the rotator cuff is not a muscle. So what that represents is a part of the shoulder blade where you have four muscles that attach to. You have the supraspinatus, the infraspinatus. Teres minor subscapularis attaches to this part of the shoulder blade. And those. Those muscles are relatively small. And what they do is they stabilize your arm, they stabilize the humerus. This is the upper arm. So when I'm pressing, it's not doing anything other than keeping my upper arm stable so it doesn't twist back or twist forward. So if you have issues with the rotator cuff area when you're shoulder pressing, it's a stability issue. It's Not a shoulder pressure issue. There isn't a shoulder press that you could do that will solve this problem. You have to solve the problem of, of the stability that involved. That's involved.

[Adam Schafer]

This is. Sal tells the story of when he added all that weight or added the weight to his bench press. Doing the, the, the. What would you call it?

[Producer/Host]

This.

[Sal Destefano]

It was a shoulder. It was called a shoulder external rotation.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

So work on exercises like, you know, external. Like these are like rehab exercises.

[Adam Schafer]

W. I don't, I don't know how often you guys see me, but that is a. Every time I bench, I do W's.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

I, I always face pulls. Yes. W's on the suspension trainer for me because you can modify it with your body weight. So. And I want to do it enough to where I can get like 12 to 15 reps and warming that, that rotator cuff up real good and getting that shoulder all stable and warmed up. Man, that gets me ready for a bench press like nothing else. And so that has been a go to move for myself and my clients to. To do that.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah. And so what you would do is with your shoulder workouts for a little while is going to be centered around strengthening these muscles, working on what's known as external rotation, internal rotation, full range of motion. You know, handcuffs with rotation is a good movement. Wall press is a good movement. W's on a suspension trainer. You know, face pulls is good to release because here's what happens. You get really strong what are known pro as prime movers in the shoulder or the chest or the back. And then these stabilizing muscles aren't strong enough to stabilize these really powerful prime movers. So I'm getting stronger with my shoulder press. I start to get so strong that my stabilizer muscles aren't strong enough to support. So I get a little bit of movement in my shoulder press and poo. I feel pain right in those areas because there's like they can't handle the weight that I'm moving. So it's really important to get these strong to get that stability and then to continue to always go back to it before you start to have pain. But it's not the shoulder press that's the issue.

[Producer/Host]

Next question is from Mrs. Alyssa Moeller. I have a L5 bulging disc that causes me pretty frequent pain and I'm trying to recover and heal it, but my chiropractor says it could take three to six months to fully heal. How am I supposed to train when I can't load heavy, especially the lower body exercises? Like squats, deadlifts, etc.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, well, first of all, unilateral exercise is probably fine. Okay. So there's lots of great lower body unilateral exercises. Also there's so many people with bulging discs in L4 and L5.

[Justin Andrews]

Right.

[Sal Destefano]

This isn't a death sentence. If you were to, you know, image 100 random people, people aren't even aware. Most. Yeah, this, this is okay. And strengthening your body makes this a lot better.

[Adam Schafer]

What do you think the chiropractor means by fully heal? Three to six months.

[Sal Destefano]

There might just. It might take three to six months to feel okay to go back to regular exercise. Yeah, sure.

[Adam Schafer]

Because I mean like if you have a bulging disc, like it's not like they're. That's going to heal.

[Sal Destefano]

No, not necessarily.

[Adam Schafer]

Have a bold.

[Sal Destefano]

Reduce inflammation.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Like, so that's why I'm curious, what, what do you think the, what the chiropractor meant by that? Like, like, or, or maybe because of the bulging disc, she hurt her low back doing something else or like compensated or something. But yeah, no, this is unilateral symmetry. This is map symmetry right here. Like especially right now, isometrics. Right away, getting into isometrics and then symmetry control the load a lot too. Yeah, yeah. So that would be the, the recommendation. But yeah, to your point. I remember when I learned this as a trainer because I remember early on I got scared when I had somebody who like a. Told me they had bulge disc. Like when I was really young, I was like, oh shit, like, what can I do? I can't do anything or whatever. And then I remember finding out like the amount of people that have a bulge, you know, L4, L5, and the ones that report zero pain whatsoever than the ones that have, say they have massive pain and they, they, it's like a tiny little bulge. And then other people with huge bulges, they don't even feel it. And so it's really. This is like a really interesting one to you. One get diagnosed and be told because then people all of a sudden identify that, oh my God, I have a bad back. But yet I've seen clients with, you know, several millimeter bulge discs that are able to heavy deadlift and do everything. Everything that you would think that they're not supposed to be able to do. So but yeah, unilateral work, isometric work, map symmetry would be a perfect example.

[Sal Destefano]

This would be a really, really wise to invest in a correctional exercise specialist.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal Destefano]

Trainer at this point. Yeah. Somebody who's, who specializes in correctional exercise. Maybe it's your chiropractor. Sometimes they are, sometimes they're not.

[Adam Schafer]

I don't know. I feel I'm suspicious already by the three to six month fully heal.

[Sal Destefano]

Yeah, without.

[Adam Schafer]

But I don't have full context. But that doesn't sound like something that.

[Justin Andrews]

You get you a Dr.

[Sal Destefano]

Brink. Yeah, but really good correctional exercise will handle this and, and then it won't happen again. You won't feel that pain again because the spine is, I mean it's a lot of joints. And what keeps it, you know, for lack of a better term in alignment is muscle. So strengthen them the right way and not only will you feel good, but you won't feel pain again. But unilateral movements is definitely where I would go. Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. You can find us at mindpump Media. We'll see you there.

[Producer/Host]

Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body dramatically, improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB C Super [e-mail] the RGB Super Bundle includes Maps, Anabolic maps, Performance and Maps Aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos. The RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam and Jack as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee and you can get it now. Plus other valuable free [e-mail] if you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review on itunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is Mind Pump.

[Sal Destefano]

Let's talk groceries. Specifically your groceries. With Instacart, you want your groceries just the way you like them, right? Well, the Instacart app lets you do just that. They have a new preference picker that lets you pick how ripe or unripe you want your bananas. Shoppers can see your preferences upfront, helping guide their choices. Instacart get groceries just how you like.