Sal Destefano (1:14)

Most downloaded fitness, health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump, right? In today's episode, callers called in and we got to coach them live on air. So people called us. We got to help them with their health and fitness. But this was after the intro. Today's intro is 59 minutes long and that's where we talk about fitness and fat loss and family life and current events. All that great stuff. By the way, if you want to be on an episode like this, send your question to mplivecaller.com now. This episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Troscriptions. Today we talked about their product, Just blue. This is methyl in blue. You've heard of methylene blue. Increases energy, gives you focus, cognitive enhancement. It is a powerful MAO inhibitor. So it means it increases neurotransmitters, dopamine, serotonin, norepinephrine. You really feel it? Try it for yourself. You'll see. Go check it out. Go to troscriptions.com that's T R O S C R I P T I o n s.com mindpump. Use the code mindpump. Get 10% off your first order. This episode is Also brought to you by Rho Nutrition. This they have liposomal technology with all of their supplements. Alright, what are liposomes? These are little capsules of fat or little encapsulated fat molecules that allow the nutrients to get utilized and absorbed much more effectively. For example, if you take glutathione and it's orally and it's not liposomal, you're wasting your money. But if it's liposomal, you'll actually use it. You'll see your blood levels raise in their glutathione levels. They have many products. They have creatine nad glutathione. Those are three of our favorites. Go check them out. Get 20% off. Go to rhonutrition.com discount mindpump. Use the code mindpump. Get that 20% off. We also have a great eight launch. What's that? Brand new program, uses only eight exercises. The great eight. The eight most effective exercises. Just do these. Develop your body with the most simple effective program that we offer. It's one lift a day. One lift a day. Try it for yourself. Watch what happens. We talked about this. People told us make it now. We did and it's on sale. It's 50% off. So go to mapsgreat8.com so that's mapsgreat the number8.com. Use the code launch. By the way, that includes five days of free coaching with our top trainer, with one of our top trainers, Cole, by the way, that's available to those of you who sign up by the 22nd. Coaching starts the next day. We're also including a Maps Great 8 nutrition guide which is included during the launch period. So one more time. Mapsgreat8.com the code launch. 50% off, five days of coaching plus the Great Eight Nutrition Guide. All right, here comes the show.

Adam Schafer (3:54)

T shirt time.

Doug (3:56)

And it's T shirt time.

Adam Schafer (3:58)

Ah, shit, Doug, you know it's my favorite time of the week.

Doug (4:01)

Three winners this week. Two for Apple Podcasts, one for Facebook. The Apple Podcast winners are Chanita, Facebook 13 and Provangelist. Sorry, Provangelist 12. And for Facebook, we have Jonathan Perez. All three of you are winners. Send the name I just read to itunesindpumpmedia.com include your shirt size and your shipping address and we'll get that shirt right out to you.

Sal Destefano (4:23)

All right, real quick.

Justin Andrews (4:24)

If you love us like we love you, why not show it by rocking one of our shirts, hats, mugs or training gear over@mindpumpstore.com I'm talking right now. Hit Pause and head on over to my pumpstore.com. that's it.

Adam Schafer (4:36)

Enjoy the rest of the show.

Sal Destefano (4:38)

It's well known that two of the most important ingredients for a healthy lifestyle is diet and exercise. But if we. What if you had to choose one? Which one is more important? Which one's better? Is it diet or is it exercise? We're going to get into it right now. Let's go.

Adam Schafer (4:53)

I feel like I flip flopped on this.

Sal Destefano (4:55)

Yes.

Justin Andrews (4:55)

Well, you have to eat to survive, so.

Sal Destefano (4:59)

That'S extreme.

Adam Schafer (5:00)

So I win. I'll tell you why I flip flopped on this. I, of course, I would have said diet years ago.

Sal Destefano (5:06)

Yeah.

Adam Schafer (5:08)

In fact, we used to always say when you were talking to a potential new client that, you know, 70% of your results come from diet. Right.

Sal Destefano (5:14)

And so abs are me in the kitchen.

Adam Schafer (5:16)

That's right. Abs are me in the kitchen. All the things. Right. We are now entering this time of. And I'm seeing more and more of this. So every time we talk about this, I actually run into more family, more friends or more people I know that are on GLP1.

Sal Destefano (5:30)

Oh, great direction. And.

Adam Schafer (5:34)

And. And diet is actually not becoming a problem. Like, they can all eat less.

Sal Destefano (5:37)

Yep.

Adam Schafer (5:38)

Without trying. Like, it's like they do. They have no problem not having the extra serving, having the dessert, drinking the alcohol. I mean, it has really. It has unlocked this hack for the average American that is. Is. Is. Is almost unbelievable. But because of that. And I can. What's wild too. This is so hard because these are like friends and close people to me. And I remember when I did the experiment, I would have never let you guys let me take pictures for the company had I thought I looked like that. Yes, bro. We still use those. Epic.

Justin Andrews (6:16)

Adam.

Adam Schafer (6:17)

And we still use those photos. I just thought I was lean. You know what I'm saying? Like, I just like. And I. I knew I lost some muscle, but there is a look that you get.

Justin Andrews (6:26)

Yeah, there is.

Adam Schafer (6:27)

There is a look that you get. And when you're. When you're kind of in it, because I think you're losing so much body fat, you're like, you know, saw my. I'm like, I'm fine. I'm fine. I'm fine. And. And granted, too, I. I had some muscle to lose because I had built so much, so probably not, but I have some friends who don't really train.

Sal Destefano (6:46)

They're.

Adam Schafer (6:46)

They've used it and they've lost a lot of body fat, but they've also lost. And they. They look sickly.

Sal Destefano (6:52)

Yeah.

Shayla (Caller) (6:53)

And.

Adam Schafer (6:54)

And they don't. And I remember this because I talked about this going with you guys. They don't have the motivation to train. They're so low calorie and they're losing the weight and the, the discipline to exercise just is not there. So for the first time in my life, I'm gonna, I'm gonna flip flop this and say exercise is, is going to become more important.

Sal Destefano (7:14)

I agree with you for, for a lot of different reasons. But one of the main reasons why I agree with glp, one scenario has illuminated this, it's made it clear. But here's why I strongly agree with you. When it comes to being overweight, diet plays a bigger role. That's true, that's true. The data is clear on this. Like if you just exercise to lose weight, don't change your diet at all, you're not going to lose that much. Okay. That's what the data is, very clear. Lots of studies on this. I've trained people for years. It's true, you go work out and don't change your diet, you won't lose that much weight. But here's also what the data shows. Can you be overweight and healthy? Yes. Can you be the right kind of weight or underweight and unhealthy? Yes. A significant percentage of people who get heart disease, cancer and diabetes. Okay, so it's not the majority, but it's enough to equate to millions and millions of people. Okay, for heart disease, for example, it's like 20 something percent of the people with heart disease are underweight or of normal weight. People with diabetes, it's something in that number. Cancer, same thing. So although obesity and being overweight plays a role in those things, we also see millions and millions of people get those things who are not overweight. What's going on? They're under muscled and they don't exercise. And the data will show this. You can be overweight and fit and have great health and longevity. If you have, if you're weak, if you have immobility, if you have low muscle and strength, your health is terrible, your mortality goes through the roof. A stupid grip strength test can predict all cause mortality better than almost any other single measurement you could take. Which is wild. And that just doesn't mean your grip is special, just means it's a proxy for overall body strength. So if you had to pick one, and again, that's the, that's the question because both are important. But if you had to pick one, which one's going to have the greatest impact on overall health? Vitality, Vitality, mobility, lifestyle. It's actually exercise. And then here's the second reason why. Now, this is from a trainer's perspective. When you're a trainer and you work with people for 20 years, you go away from everything they need to do to what's the most effective thing I can actually get people to do? Because that's the big problem. The big problem is getting people to do something. Because if everybody did everything I said, it would be great, be wonderful, everybody. But the hard thing is getting people to do anything. What is right. And so this is the. This is the struggle of being a coach. It's way easier to get people to exercise than it is for them to fix their diet. That's why I pick exercise as well. Can I get the average person to walk daily, strength train a couple days a week? The odds of me convincing the average person to do that are far higher.

Justin Andrews (10:05)

The adherence is way higher.

Sal Destefano (10:07)

Way higher than me convincing the average person to overhaul their diet, which is what they need to do. That is very difficult.

Justin Andrews (10:12)

You can correct the diet through this. Better patterns of movement. And I think it's. It's one of those behavioral things that really kind of compiles the. The more you do it, the more better behaviors, like, totally spawn right after that.

Adam Schafer (10:27)

Well, and we know, too, that, I mean, muscle is an expensive tissue. Right? It needs a lot of calories, it needs a lot of nutrients. And so even if you don't have the cleanest or best diet and you eat in a surplus, which is not ideal all the time, if you're lifting weights, some of that's getting partitioned over to building muscle, which is pro, which is good for you. And so, yeah, I can't stress the. The GLP1 argument too, because. And, you know, a lot of the stuff that you're. You're touting right now is, you know.

Sal Destefano (10:57)

You know what we're seeing, Adam? We're seeing people go on GLP1s and come back with osteopenia. Yeah, osteopenia before osteoporosis. What? Yeah. Is. Ha. Well, here's what's happening. They just started eating less. They lost muscle, lost body fat. But if you don't do anything to keep the muscle, you'll lose. You lose muscle, you lose bone. Yeah. I've seen fitness influencers come on and be like, osteopenia. How is this even possible?

Adam Schafer (11:22)

Well, if you've been listening to the show long enough, I mean, we've been screaming at the top of the mountain for a long time. That when we look back at all the clients that we trained, almost every single client, even the overweight ones that ate bad, were under eating on the protein part.

Sal Destefano (11:38)

Yeah.

Adam Schafer (11:39)

And so that was always like the first fix for me, especially my female clients, especially, like, I don't 100 across the board. Always had to boost a feeling every once in a while. I might have had like an obese guy that just ate 6, 000 calories and he cleared protein, and that might have been an issue. Right. But for the most part, every client I had to teach to go after protein. So if you take the typical American that isn't eating optimal protein for a weight training routine, and then you also cut their calories from that position, and they don't really change anything else other than just pulling back on the calories, they're gonna lose muscle the little bit they, they, they already had. And so they end up in an unhealthier place. And this is why I love Dr. Gabriel Lyon's argument that, you know, we don't have an obesity problem, we have an under muscle problem.

Sal Destefano (12:25)

That's right.

Adam Schafer (12:25)

I think her message is so important.

Sal Destefano (12:27)

It is. And now, of course, to be clear again, I'm going to say this again because someone's going to clip this and.

Adam Schafer (12:33)

Oh, yeah, no, we're, we'll get roasted for that.

Sal Destefano (12:35)

You need, you, you need to eat healthy and you need to exercise. I think Jack LaLanne used to say that diet and exercise was a king and queen. You need to have both to have a kingdom. He's right. You also need to have good sleep and all that other stuff. That's all important. But again, if you have to pick one, if you're listening and you're like, man, I struggle with all this stuff, where do I start? Exercise. That's it. Start exercise. By the way, Justin talked about this. The data shows that when you start one healthy behavior, it encourages others. So if you start eating healthy, you're more likely to exercise, and if you start exercising, you're more likely to eat healthy. But which one is more likely to lead to the other exercise? That's also what the data shows. The data shows that exercise leads to healthier eating more often than diet leads to exercise. And there's a couple reasons for this.

Justin Andrews (13:24)

We saw this with our clients.

Sal Destefano (13:25)

There's a couple reasons why this is true. Number one, exercise is easier to do and start as hard as it is. And people are like, that's hard. It's easier than diet. Trust me, diets every day, all day, your emotions are tied to it. It's not just an hour, a couple days a week or a few days a week. It's like I eat all day long every single day. This is how I celebrate. This is how I bury my feelings. This is how I deal with stress or whatever. Diet's way harder than exercise. So you're more likely to stay consistent with a good exercise program, which will then lead to better diet. More likely than you would if you started with diet. The second thing is, if you're exercising and strength training, you start to focus on things like getting stronger, which means you got to look at your diet a little bit. You got to do that thing. Now, could you go on a diet and just lose weight on the scale? Never exercise? You could. And people. This is one of the reasons why they don't exercise. Like, why do I need exercise? I'm on a GLP1. I lost £40. Yeah, I think I'm good. Not realizing that they're losing, you know, 40%. This is what the data shows of their weight is coming from muscle. And then you want to look at things like insulin sensitivity, which is, you know, very important. This is tied to so many of our metabolic conditions and poor health. If you had to do one thing to improve this, it's not diet. It's actually build muscle. You can actually improve your insulin sensitivity, your blood sugar, faster and easier if you just built some muscle than through radical diet changes. So for those reasons, exercise first. And by the way, good trainers know this. A good trainer knows this. You don't. You don't force diet on your client until they're ready, but they're here working out, and they love it, and let's go. Let's get it going.

Adam Schafer (15:02)

Do you think that there's also another layer there that I mean, for. Do you believe that as humans, we're inherently rebellious? So. So think about that. Like, the difference between those two is this is telling someone to go exercise and go do a thing is different than saying you can't have something. So it's like, that's another reason why I think it's easier to get somebody to adhere to. Hey, add this to your already routine. Just. Just go lift a couple. A couple times a week and you'll be fine.

Sal Destefano (15:31)

Just stop doing this thing.

Adam Schafer (15:32)

Exactly. Versus, hey, this. I know you always eat and do these things, but you can't have that anymore. You can't do that anymore. I think there's something with that that psychologically is far more difficult for us to do.

Sal Destefano (15:44)

Yeah.

Adam Schafer (15:44)

Especially if it's been ingrained since childhood or most of our lives.

Sal Destefano (15:48)

That's a great point. That's how you attach. That's how you attack diet, by the way, too trainer. You figure that out instead of telling people, stop eating this and that. You, oh, eat your protein, right? You know, eat fiber. And then everything else kind of falls into place, right?

Adam Schafer (15:59)

But most people who decide they're going to go on a diet and start exercising, especially if they're by themselves, without a good coach, they're going to go, oh, I got to stop doing that thing. I got to stop doing this. I got to stop doing that.

Sal Destefano (16:11)

I literally had a conversation this morning with a family member who's a dietitian, and she's a good dietitian. Like, she, she knows her stuff. And we were talking about our family and we were talking about people that we love with, you know, blood sugar issues. Diabetes is something that kind of runs in my family and all the issues associated with it. And she's like, you got to talk to them about diet. We need to help them do this. And I'm like, listen, let's get them to lift weights a couple days a week. So we had this whole discussion, and she's like, but diet does. I'm like, you're making dietary changes that last are so hard, and then making impactful ones that have measurable changes on blood sugar consistently are actually relatively difficult. I said, but if they just lifted weights a couple days, if they gained like three pounds of muscle, we would see those numbers change. And it doesn't take that much. And I was giving examples of, like, my parents, like my parents. I've been trying to get them to work on their diets forever as an annoying trainer. And recently what I did is I just, I did this about eight months ago is I just bought them personal training at the place. I got them a membership at the place I go to, and then I bought them some training because they already go there. And so. And I know my parents would do the training because they're old school. So it's like, I don't want my son to waste his money, right? So they go and do it, and we're getting great results. And I'm also starting to see them make slight changes to their diet through that process. Way more effective. Just took me so long to start to apply it to my own. My own family. But again, if, if, if this is, if this is your question, because what happens to a lot of people trying to improve their health and fitness or lose weight is they look at all the things they need to do and then it becomes a. I got to do all this. And yeah, that would be wonderful. But the odds that you'll be able to maintain that consistently are zero. Almost zero. Start with one thing. So what's the most effective thing? Go build a little bit of muscle and the rest starts to take care of itself. It makes the biggest impact on your health, your longevity. There's also this wonderful process of. I did something hard for an hour that I got this result from. Does that translate to diet? That can also be hard. And what, it's harder, but also translate. Absolutely.

Adam Schafer (18:23)

Did I tell you guys my story about my buddy Mike, my car buddy that was asking me advice finally about. He is his own little. At home, he's doing a lot of body weight stuff and he'd been doing it for six months. We were hitting golf balls and he was just like, hey man. He was like, you know, I don't want to take up too much your time. I know it's valuable and you know, I'll pay you and this and that, but I'm just curious, like, you know, what should I do? This is what I'm doing in my, inside my house, like lifting weights and stuff. And you know, I just, I want to build a little bit of muscle. And I was like, at this point he's already, he's been, he's been training consistently in his house and he's doing like push ups and pull ups and he's got some light dumbbells. Yeah, some, some basics. Like he's got, he's been consistently exercising now for. And he's just like, you know, and I feel good. He goes, but I'd like to put on a few pounds of muscle. And I said, I'm going to give you one thing to do and that's it. I'm not going to tell you to do anything else diet wise. And I'm not going to, I'm not going to pick apart your workout routine because the fact that you're doing something right now, you're already sending a signal that your body should start to build some muscle if now if we just give it the protein, that's it. And like we talk for a long time.

Sal Destefano (19:29)

What about this sounds too simple? Right?

Adam Schafer (19:31)

Right. So I, this was, this was like, I don't know, maybe two months ago or whatever. And then we just recently did that trip, I told you, a three day trip. And he shows up, say, man, you're looking good. He's like, dude, I've put Nine pounds on. He goes. Just, just from that, he goes, I haven't changed anything in my routine.

Sal Destefano (19:48)

Muscle. He's.

Adam Schafer (19:49)

Yeah, and, and he looks great. He's a really lean kind of smaller guy and just was blown away. And I was explaining to him that I said, man, the material, the first part was the hardest part. You've already been in this kind of consistent routine. I said, and then just doing that, I said, but, you know, he said back to me goes, man, it's hard because I really drilled home to him. I'm not going to tell you anything else. I said, just this alone will be hard to be consistent with it. But if you do it consistently, I promise, even the routine you're doing will show you the results you want. And sure, he came back, but he is like. He's like, man, I have to, like, I really have to prepare my morning breakfast the night before or else I don't get that first 40, 40, 50 grams of protein. And then I'm behind all day long. Yeah. And so, I mean, and that's why, if you've listened long enough, that's kind of the two things that we talk so much about is like, just start a routine. Go after your protein. That will take care of such a huge percentage for most people. Just start there, just there, just that.

Sal Destefano (20:46)

Watch what happens.

Adam Schafer (20:47)

It just that alone. And I think that's why, you know, we obviously, we get clipped, right? You get like. And you will get clipped for your. Our comment that, you know, we're picking exercise over diet. So some. Some Internet troll will.

Shayla (Caller) (20:59)

Will.

Adam Schafer (21:00)

Will break down the studies and tell us how y.

Sal Destefano (21:03)

How wrong we are. So.

Adam Schafer (21:06)

But we, but. But we know that. Listen, like you said, it's. It's what you figure out if you've worked with enough people is like, okay, I know what the studies say. I know what the most important things are. I know if I do all these things, I can move the needle most. But it's like, what can I realistically get? This person who is 45, 50 years old has already proven that they. They've struggled with consistency around diet and exercise their whole life. So do I tell them all the. The best things are in this, or do I tell them one or two things that make the big difference, that make a big difference that I think that are the easiest for them to adhere to, and then I'll build on top of that foundation.

Sal Destefano (21:45)

100. Yeah, 100. Speaking of workouts, so you. Oh, man. Yeah. Why are you. Why are you made of glass? I want to hear what's going on here.

Adam Schafer (21:55)

I just can't. I can't afford. And I. I'm all.

Sal Destefano (21:58)

I also thought about this a lot, by the way.

Adam Schafer (22:00)

I know you, and I think.

Sal Destefano (22:01)

I figured.

Adam Schafer (22:01)

I text you and I think working.

Justin Andrews (22:03)

Out with the Niners practice.

Adam Schafer (22:04)

No, dude, the frustrating part right now is. So I. When I did my. My transformation thing last year, or the year before, whatever, it was a while back, right, that I did the. The last time I did this, after I came off the GLP one, I got hurt, like, three times. And I know what I did that time was I was. Man, I'm just feeling strong and lifting. Each time I deadlift, I was stacking on an extra 50 pounds, like, to catch up. Now I started at, like, 135, so it's not like it was impressive. You know what I'm saying? But I was. I think I got hurt at, like, three scaled. Yeah, but I scaled so fast, right? And I think what you and I have both distilled it down to or agree that it is because I've tried to. I'm doing all the supplement. I mean, I am, like, doing everything. I'm not. And this time, I'm like, I'm not going. I'm not doing anything. I'm not even doing 5 reps. I haven't dropped anything lower than 8 to 10 reps, right? So in my. So my eyes, I'm not even lifting that heavy. But I think it's the same thing that I. I talk about that has been one of the greatest things of getting older. And the benefits of having lifted and built so much muscle in the past is it comes back. It's coming back so quick.

Sal Destefano (23:10)

That's right. Yeah.

Adam Schafer (23:11)

And even though it doesn't feel like it's that much weight to me, it's. It's enough that I haven't allowed everything else to catch kind of up. And I'm just these. I'm pulls. Pulling and straining all this stuff.

Sal Destefano (23:26)

So I was thinking a lot about this, because when this first. When you started first getting hurt, I'm like, is there a nutrient deficiency? Maybe there's a nutrient deficiency, but you're taking all the supplements.

Adam Schafer (23:34)

And I made a surplus. I'm in a cat.

Sal Destefano (23:36)

And you're healthy. You look healthy. And so I was thinking about it and, you know, so muscle memory is. This is real. It's documented. So people listening. If you built 30 pounds of muscle on your body, which Adam has built more than that, how many. How much muscle would you say you added to your frame? At your peak that you wouldn't have otherwise carried.

Adam Schafer (23:54)

Oh, I have it tracked. I went from like 160 all the way up to 210 pounds of muscle.

Sal Destefano (23:59)

Of just lean, lean body mass. So that's 70. What is that? £70? What is that? Yeah, no, no. £50.

Adam Schafer (24:06)

Yeah.

Sal Destefano (24:06)

Of muscle.

Adam Schafer (24:07)

50. Yeah.

Sal Destefano (24:07)

So that's a lot of lean body mass. That's a ton.

Adam Schafer (24:11)

That was on top of, by the way, like a kid who was working out.

Sal Destefano (24:14)

That's right. Already.

Adam Schafer (24:15)

So it wasn't like I had zero and then I went to there.

Sal Destefano (24:17)

Exactly. So, you know, you. You build 50 pounds of muscle and then you have something called muscle memory. What that means is if you lose the muscle, let's say you stop working out, you become sedentary, you lose it all, then you go back and work out, you'll gain it back at a fraction of the rate that it took the first time. Like super fast.

Adam Schafer (24:33)

Way faster.

Sal Destefano (24:34)

Like, super fast. Like, like. And we've already seen this. Like, the last time you did. You did this with your training, you gained over 20 pounds of muscle. Yeah. And like 40 days or something like that. It was crazy. But that's muscle memory, everybody. That's true. It's real. It's well documented. It's incredible. The problem, though, is that when you have, I believe when you have muscle that sits on your body for a long time, it's controlled, it's seasoned. CNS is working with it very well. And if you look at the data on injuries, injuries spike when athletes dramatically increase their strength and performance in short periods of time. And so because you've had so much muscle, because you haven't worked out consistently. Consistently for like a year, for a long time.

Adam Schafer (25:15)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Sal Destefano (25:16)

You've gone on for a while. True truth.

Adam Schafer (25:17)

Yeah.

Sal Destefano (25:17)

And you, and you gain muscle so easily, you lose it and you gain it. You lose it and you gain it. So I think it's that you, you're just gaining it quickly. And so you're trying to judge it based off your memory, which was like, oh, this is easy. It feels good. Still. It's like, oh, I was pressing the 40s, now I'm pressing the 80s.

Adam Schafer (25:31)

Yeah.

Sal Destefano (25:31)

It's only two, three weeks later. Yeah. That's a doubling of the weight.

Adam Schafer (25:34)

Yeah.

Sal Destefano (25:34)

Which is frustrating.

Adam Schafer (25:36)

It is, it is. It's frustrating. Especially like when I, when I feel the way it's moving. Like, it's. It just. I mean, I literally, I, I was, I was, I was. This was so. Well, last week. I don't even know How I did was I did strain something on my forearm and it was like, felt like a little bit of nagging pain still. Hammer curling right through it. No big deal. And then all of a sudden, the next day, I look at it. It's like bruised and swollen.

Sal Destefano (25:59)

I'm like, oh, man.

Adam Schafer (26:00)

Like, yeah. And then, and then it hurts for me to grab my Tupperware out of the microwave. I'm like, oh, mama. I'm like, okay.

Kyle (Caller) (26:07)

So.

Adam Schafer (26:07)

So then I just did all of last. The previous week I started to do what you've been talking about.

Sal Destefano (26:13)

Cardio.

Adam Schafer (26:13)

Yeah, cardio. So I did cardio. And then, then I. So I had a nice week off. I'm like, feel great. Come back in the gym, shoulder pressing, you know, warm it. Warming up with like. And here's the other thing too. And admittedly I know I should know better. Like, I didn't, I didn't like really prime. I, I didn't prime at all. I got in and did a couple warm up sets. I did a couple warm up sets. I did some 40s and 50s and then jumped to 80s.

Sal Destefano (26:38)

And plus, your memory of what you do and what it feels like is so based off of when you were like jacked and training all the time. Yeah. So it's like, how do you judge it?

Adam Schafer (26:47)

It's, it's.

Sal Destefano (26:48)

You got to go super ginger.

Adam Schafer (26:51)

I do. And I have to stay there. Like, like, your, Your point is like, not only do I have to do that, but I have to stay there for a while, even though I can tell I can go more. And so I've just. After this one, after this, the shoulder one heals. I'm just gonna, I'm gonna go back to kind of this, this the old, you know, chasing pumps and high reps, supersets, really lightweight. And stay away from anything that I think is even remotely heavy. Even though I didn't think it was heavy. I'm not, I haven't done anything really that heavy.

Sal Destefano (27:22)

But in the context of what you were doing a month ago. Yeah, it's twice as much.

Adam Schafer (27:26)

And I think it is, it's like, it's, it's. They're all, it's all like stabilizer. So I think like. Or in ligament stuff. So I think what it is, is my ligaments and tendons haven't caught up to the muscles.

Sal Destefano (27:34)

They don't build as fast as muscle. Muscle.

Adam Schafer (27:36)

Yeah. So I think what it is, is what I'm feeling is the muscles feel fine. It's the ligaments, tendons, and to your point, like the, the how my CNS and my muscle just, they, they pick it right back up and so I'm just gonna have to take it.

Justin Andrews (27:49)

Super.

Sal Destefano (27:50)

You know, it reminds me of. It reminds me of women postpartum. Like really fit, strong women. You know what you remind me of, bro? No, no. You know how like we've all known these really fit, strong women, they get pregnant, then postpartum, they're like, no, I feel like I can do more. And they keep hurting themselves and it's like, no, like give it a year of doing like the, like the easiest stuff before you jump into it because your body was so. I mean that's a drastic example.

Justin Andrews (28:19)

Mano puzzle.

Sal Destefano (28:20)

But I mean muscle memory is crazy because I literally will watch you. We'll record a podcast on Wednesday, then I'll see you on Monday. Like this dude gained seven pounds of muscle. Oh, I can't do that.

Adam Schafer (28:29)

Well, tonight I get my Dexa, so I'll have numbers to support what I. Yeah, but I, I mean I can feel it. I can tell that I've got, I've put on a good amount of muscle in the last month again and, and again. Really I thought going really slow weight and strength wise and. But that's the only thing that makes sense to me because I've, I'm. I'm in a surplus. I'm not cutting, so I'm eating close to 4,000.

Sal Destefano (28:54)

Sleep is back to normal.

Adam Schafer (28:55)

Sleep is doing great. I'm. I have never been 90 days in my life of not missing a supplement. I mean I am taking everything you've given me. And even when you're like, hey, I'm already taking that. I'm taking it. I'm taking, I'm taking all of it. And yet still, still having those little issues. And so I just going to have to lay off.

Justin Andrews (29:15)

I'd love to sneak more of those isometrics in your programming though, for your.

Adam Schafer (29:19)

Oh, I know I should.

Sal Destefano (29:20)

I'm going to have you give me some, by the way. Yeah. Yeah. Because I talked to my wife guide on it and I'm like. She's like, when are you going to start that? Every other week workout. So of course I'm like, next week. Wow. It sounds like never comes out. Yeah, yeah. So she gave me a recommendation. I thought it was really good that I don't want to do, which means I probably should. She's like, why don't you have other people write up routines for you? I know I need that. So I'm gonna have you especially for.

Justin Andrews (29:44)

Us it's like, yeah, I'm gonna have you.

Sal Destefano (29:46)

I'd love to write something up for me because I know you'll give me something I need to do.

Justin Andrews (29:50)

Sure.

Sal Destefano (29:50)

Because I know what I'll do.

Justin Andrews (29:51)

But I'll know what you like too, dude.

Sal Destefano (29:52)

So.

Justin Andrews (29:53)

Yeah.

Adam Schafer (29:54)

Yeah. I. I think that's the other part that I think is really annoying and frustrating is that, you know. You know, I know too.

Sal Destefano (30:01)

Right?

Adam Schafer (30:01)

So it's just like, when it happens, I think that's part, like, you guys.

Justin Andrews (30:05)

Would be calling me down with the intensity. Like, you know, immediately I'd be like, ah, yeah, you know, lame.

Adam Schafer (30:11)

Yeah.

Sal Destefano (30:11)

You seem to be made out of steel, though. Like, you don't hurt yourself. Except for that time you hurt. What did you hurt? I don't think you ever get hurt.

Justin Andrews (30:18)

Just kind of like my. My Ql, Like.

Sal Destefano (30:23)

Oh, you just hurt because you're like, you. You're like, old, dude.

Justin Andrews (30:26)

I just have, like. Yeah, like, achy.

Adam Schafer (30:28)

I do. I mean, Justin, right away, especially when it was my shoulder on this one, I was just like, you know, this is. I mean, this is what he's really good at. When he gets. When he falls off, gets back on. He goes to swinging the mace club. Yeah. He does all the rotation.

Justin Andrews (30:42)

I adjust right away if I feel anything.

Adam Schafer (30:43)

Yeah, you don't go. You don't go right back into building, like, muscle building mode guy. You go back into mobility drill.

Sal Destefano (30:49)

He's all movement.

Adam Schafer (30:50)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're the opposite. It's like. I'm like, oh, right back to getting them up.

Sal Destefano (30:55)

Let me get.

Adam Schafer (30:55)

Let me get looking good first, and then I'll address. Right, that's exactly. Let me make sure I look good first and then I'll address the other stuff. And it's like, so backwards, and I know it's backwards, and it's frustrating.

Sal Destefano (31:05)

I was reading some articles. So in today's episode, we're talking. We have transcriptions in here, which is. They have a methyl and blue product, just blue. And I've been reading a lot about methyl and blue because it's really remarkable.

Justin Andrews (31:16)

That over the weekend has rad energy.

Sal Destefano (31:18)

It is remarkable. So methyl and blue has been around for a long time. It's a natural MAOI inhibitor. So I didn't know.

Adam Schafer (31:27)

It's been around for a long time.

Sal Destefano (31:28)

Long time. It was a. It was a. It was a dye that was used for a long time. And then they noticed it had these.

Justin Andrews (31:32)

Somebody swallowed.

Sal Destefano (31:33)

It was like, these benefits. Yeah.

Adam Schafer (31:35)

Are you serious? That's how that went down?

Sal Destefano (31:36)

Yeah. Look up Methyl and blue history. And it's used in medicine, by the way, for certain disorders like you go to the hospital for. I forgot what it was. They'll give you an IV of methyl and blue to help you. But anyway, it's an MAOI inhibitor. So the maoi MAO is a enzyme that breaks down neurotransmitters. So when you inhibit it, you increase neurotransmitters. So more serotonin, more dopamine, more norepinephrine. And so you just feel more energy, you feel more awake, you're sharper. That's why they call it like a cognitive enhancement. By the way. It's also important if you're on an ssri, do not take an maoi. Don't take an MAO inhibitor because it's dangerous. You're taking something that increases serotonin and then something that prevents it from getting broken down. You can get what's called serotonin syndrome. But by the way, that's how powerful methylene blue is. It's a powerful MAOI or MAO inhibitor. But I was reading about it and a lot of the products that are out there are contaminated with heavy metals.

Justin Andrews (32:36)

Really?

Sal Destefano (32:37)

Yeah. So they've had third party testing of other. Because methyl and blue is all popular now. I think there was a video of Robert Kennedy. He was squirting. Some of it is water and it's easy to see because it's blue.

Justin Andrews (32:48)

Yeah.

Sal Destefano (32:48)

And so like a lot of people are using it. And I looked up some third party testing. There was like heavy metal contamination all over the place, man. So the place we go with transcriptions. Clean, clear. It's good. Legit, non stimulant, but definitely works. And you took it this weekend?

Justin Andrews (33:03)

I did, I took this week. I had to do a lot of manual labor and stuff and fix a bunch of things and, you know, was kind of running a little low energy. Took it and it totally like a long period of time to a couple hours of pretty consistent energy.

Adam Schafer (33:17)

Now it's got tons of cognitive benefits. But do you feel like energy, almost like caffeine energy from it too?

Sal Destefano (33:21)

It's not like a stimulant, but you feel more awake and I feel faster. What's the right word? I don't know if that's the right word. Like verbally I'm faster.

Justin Andrews (33:28)

Yeah, yeah, I could. I could agree with that.

Sal Destefano (33:30)

Yeah.

Adam Schafer (33:31)

So is it all. There's no. So there's no central nervous system effect from it.

Sal Destefano (33:34)

There is mild because of the increase in the neurotransmitters. But it's not a direct central nervous system stimulant like caffeine is. So I still don't think you should take it before bed. But it's not a direct cns. Yeah.

Justin Andrews (33:47)

So we still have the groggy kind of underlying. I don't know, sometimes during the day, I'll just. I'll just have that kind of low fatigue.

Adam Schafer (33:55)

Is it okay for me to take with caffeine if I was drinking?

Sal Destefano (33:59)

Oh, yeah. Okay.

Adam Schafer (33:59)

So it's fine with that.

Sal Destefano (34:00)

A lot of people take it with caffeine.

Adam Schafer (34:01)

What should you not take it with?

Sal Destefano (34:03)

Anything that. Any kind of medication that raises serotonin, like an SSRI or another MAO inhibitor. Dangerous. It's actually very dangerous.

Adam Schafer (34:11)

What would be another. What would be another one of those natural one.

Sal Destefano (34:14)

I can't think of them. But people are on medication. So remember. Remember.

Adam Schafer (34:18)

Do they all fall in the antidermo.

Sal Destefano (34:19)

It's not a good commercial. But I'll tell you guys what happened. Remember a while ago when I got freaked out?

Justin Andrews (34:23)

Yeah.

Sal Destefano (34:24)

Because I took. What was it called? Tessel fencin. Oh, yeah. So tessel fencin you get from peptide companies, right? Peptide companies. This is when Sal does stupid stuff. And it's a. It's a serotonin norepinephrine dopamine reuptake inhibitor. And so people. It's actually used for weight loss for some people, they'll take it and they'll eat less. And it also makes you feel better or whatever. Well, I didn't know that you shouldn't combine it with methyl and blue. That was scary. That's why I told you guys I was. I started sweating profusely, like, uncontrollably sweating. And I knew right away. I was like, oh, I think I'm in serotonin syndrome. Went to the hospital, and they're like, you have to wait it out.

Justin Andrews (35:06)

You're going to have to write.

Sal Destefano (35:09)

Anyway, I got. I got to take as a funny story, dude, about my kids. Were. All my kids were mad at me. All of them. Why? Pissed off my little one, my daughter. You're so mean. I hate. Everybody was pissed off of me. So in my garage, I noticed signs of a mouse. So he's nibbling on, like, our paper towels. He was doing all kinds of things, right?

Justin Andrews (35:30)

Droppings everywhere.

Sal Destefano (35:31)

And then I came in one day, turned the light on, and I seen him running by. So I'm like, oh, you're in my house, dude. Like, you're gonna have to kill you. And I. I'm a man. I love catching Mine. I don't know about you guys, but.

Adam Schafer (35:41)

I. Oh, I like catching live or like, you mean like trapping them? Okay, trapping them.

Justin Andrews (35:47)

I have fun shooting them.

Sal Destefano (35:48)

Don't. Yeah, there's something about it. It's like I feel invaded. Don't, you know, carry disease. Don't be in my house. So anyway. But it's in the garage. So I set up mouse traps. Like the ones that snap.

Adam Schafer (35:58)

Yeah.

Sal Destefano (35:58)

Okay. Now this little mouse somehow got the food off. Three traps. And they did. They went off and he was. He disappear. Wasn't there. So I'm like, this is war. So I'm like strategizing. Maybe the sticky ones. The sticky ones always catch them. So we come home one day in the garage. I got my daughter, I got my. My niece. I got my. And my two little ones, okay, my, my 5 year old, my 3 year old, my 16 year old, my 18 year old niece. We turn the light on the garage and the mouse is just sitting right there by the. By the stairs. And he's. And my daughter's like, oh my God, my sister. He's so cute. He's tiny. He's so cute. Look how cute he is. I'll show you guys a video. So I'm like. So I grabbed the. I'm like, is there something to like smash it? I don't have a shovel, so I'm like, let me get a broom. So I walk over to him and everybody's like, he's so cute. Let's keep him. Come on, let's keep him. So I take the broom, I open. The garage is open and I blasted him. And I didn't even kill. I didn't hurt him because it's a broom. But I got him outside the garage.

Adam Schafer (36:56)

Oh my God. I can't believe you caught him like that.

Sal Destefano (36:58)

Everybody was screaming every. Don't hit the mouse. My little ones start crying. My daughter runs in the house. My daughter runs. You hurt the mouse, bro. My wife comes home. Everybody's mad at me. She's like, why are you guys mad at your dad? He's so mean. He hurt the mouse.

Adam Schafer (37:14)

Oh my God. You didn't kill it.

Sal Destefano (37:15)

My daughter took a video. Look at this video. I can't believe he did this. Like.

Justin Andrews (37:20)

What they need to see is a cat eating it head first, biting it off and then leaving the entrails for you.

Adam Schafer (37:28)

You still. Do you still have your work cats? You still got those cats?

Justin Andrews (37:31)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're savages, dude. They don't. And they're on a hunt right now. I Think it's because there's this false signal of, like, spring. So a lot of, like, flowers are.

Adam Schafer (37:41)

Because the weather is so weird, it's just off, right?

Justin Andrews (37:44)

There's all the moles and the, you know, the mice and the rats and all that. They're out in force. And so they're starting to bring them in. We had one of them bring, like, it was a mole, I think, and they brought. We had the doors open because it's such a nice day or letting the breeze in and everything. And the cats came in and had one of those in its mouth and then let it go. And then they're like, you know, playing with it. Pawn, like, ah, get this thing out of here. What are you doing? It was. Freaked me out, but it's like, dude, I mean, they're. They're. They're kill machines. Oh, yeah, they're effective.

Sal Destefano (38:15)

Hey, I found. Do you remember a while ago we talked about the. The infamous hammer strength leg machine?

Adam Schafer (38:21)

Oh, yeah, yeah, I did. It's been going viral right now.

Sal Destefano (38:24)

Yes.

Adam Schafer (38:24)

Yeah, it's going viral right now. Somebody's all. I see a bunch of people talking about squat, Doug.

Sal Destefano (38:29)

Look it up. Hammer strength. H. Squat.

Adam Schafer (38:31)

I've seen all kinds.

Sal Destefano (38:32)

Dylan, you got to put this in the video. You got to edit this in so people can see what this.

Adam Schafer (38:35)

I don't know. Why can't. Wouldn't I clip go viral when we talk?

Sal Destefano (38:39)

Because I don't think we put a picture of it. It is a monstrosity. It is huge. It's a towering.

Chris (Caller) (38:45)

I know.

Sal Destefano (38:45)

You got to climb stairs.

Adam Schafer (38:47)

Doug has got to. Doug has got to have some footage of that. When we shot in that gym. I know we had him take a bit. You had to have taken a picture or a video of that.

Justin Andrews (38:54)

Is it that vertical position?

Doug (38:55)

Doug, did you find that your old gym?

Adam Schafer (38:57)

Yeah. Remember the old one I trained at when I was in high school where we shot the original maps black and you had to climb up it.

Sal Destefano (39:03)

You had to go upstairs.

Adam Schafer (39:04)

Yeah, yeah. You declined.

Sal Destefano (39:05)

If you fell off the top, you would hurt yourself. That's how tall it was. Did you find it, Doug?

Doug (39:10)

I think so, yeah.

Sal Destefano (39:11)

It's. It's a huge lever, like squat lever machine.

Adam Schafer (39:15)

There's all kinds of viral clips going around it right now.

Doug (39:17)

Is this it here?

Adam Schafer (39:19)

No, no, no, no.

Sal Destefano (39:19)

Also, no guillotine.

Adam Schafer (39:21)

You know, if you look up. Oh, here it is.

Sal Destefano (39:24)

Oh, there it is. That yellow one right there.

Adam Schafer (39:26)

Oh, the yellow one. Okay. Oh, my goodness.

Justin Andrews (39:28)

What the hell?

Sal Destefano (39:29)

You have to climb that row of stairs.

Adam Schafer (39:31)

I Actually feel like the one that placed the older one was even taller, apparently.

Sal Destefano (39:34)

It feels. I never use one because I was always when I saw it at the gym.

Adam Schafer (39:39)

So the clips I've been seeing, they're talking about how it's was the greatest.

Sal Destefano (39:42)

That's.

Adam Schafer (39:42)

Everybody says, yeah, it says greatest leg machine ever made.

Sal Destefano (39:45)

Now I'm all curious.

Justin Andrews (39:45)

I want to try.

Sal Destefano (39:46)

But as a gym owner, like, come on, are you going to take the.

Adam Schafer (39:51)

One that I was in mind? You had the chain on it and it was a chain. Yeah, it was like, for sure.

Sal Destefano (39:54)

Lawsuit.

Justin Andrews (39:55)

Dangerous.

Sal Destefano (39:56)

Look at that. What? Hey, how dangerous is that? You just hammered your legs. You go down the stairs. Yeah, yeah.

Adam Schafer (40:03)

That's like a new version.

Sal Destefano (40:04)

That's a.

Adam Schafer (40:04)

That's a new version of it right there.

Sal Destefano (40:06)

Yeah. But you can see the lever. So at the bottom is the weight. So when you push the platform, it's the bottom that lifts. So it's like this crazy lever squat. Yeah, dude.

Adam Schafer (40:17)

I know. I wonder what the physics are on it that makes it so, so great in comparison to, like, any traditional hack.

Sal Destefano (40:24)

Because of the platform goes down. It goes from leg press to squat almost. You get this really full range of motion. I was watching it on Instagram, so I've never used it. Like I said, every time I saw it, I'm like, I'm not climbing the stairs.

Adam Schafer (40:35)

Because, you know, the. The other. The one that you used to work at the Old Golds or whatever that's off. Or market American barbell, whichever. I want to forget what it is off of Monterey. It has the one where you lay upside down.

Sal Destefano (40:45)

Oh, yeah. That's crazy.

Adam Schafer (40:46)

Yeah. And they come.

Sal Destefano (40:47)

That's the old school leg.

Adam Schafer (40:49)

Yeah.

Sal Destefano (40:49)

If you miss that, you're dead. No, thanks.

Justin Andrews (40:53)

In your dreams and everything.

Sal Destefano (40:54)

Hey, speaking of Instagram and social media and you brought this up to Justin. You said your boys were starting to watch.

Justin Andrews (41:00)

Oh, yes.

Sal Destefano (41:02)

There's this new category of fitness influencers that are like, these steroid influencers. Yeah. That are getting popular with kids. Have you watched some of their stuff?

Justin Andrews (41:11)

So I haven't.

Adam Schafer (41:12)

Yeah.

Justin Andrews (41:12)

I've been meaning to, like, really sit down and watch. I've. I've heard a lot from, like, especially my oldest, because he's. I think it's like TikTok, where they're popular, but he says they're. They're funny and it's. He knows it's ridiculous, but at the same time, I'm like, you know, this is probably horrific information. Like, I need to get in there and, like, dissect it all so what.

Sal Destefano (41:34)

They do this because I. So I clicked on one, clicked on another one. So now my algorithm is starting to pick up on them. And I'll click on them now because I'm like, what are they saying? Yeah, so it's. It's either A, dudes who lift who talk about steroids, or B, it's these, like, fitness personalities who are like experts on. That's. That's how they pose as experts. And they'll post, like, before and afters. And here's my clients and here's what I recommend.

Justin Andrews (41:58)

All they do is talk about steroids.

Sal Destefano (41:59)

So they'll literally talk about the cycles that they're putting their clients on. They'll show before and afters. Here's what the doses are. You guys, the information is crazy. How is that like, bro, I am watching these guys say things like, you know, like, there was this one guy that's like a thousand milligrams of testosterone a week is a crazy high dose. Then this guy gets on. It's not a crazy high dose. This is what I have my clients do regularly. You're not going to see anything over 500 milligrams. I'm like, what?

Justin Andrews (42:25)

How is it not regulated?

Sal Destefano (42:27)

What? A thousand milligrams is not a lot.

Justin Andrews (42:30)

That's nuts.

Sal Destefano (42:31)

That's 10 times insane. What they would typically give.

Adam Schafer (42:34)

Do you think, you think part of this is because. And I remember when I was in my early 20s and I. And I messed with steroids and you think you need more of it, but really what it is, you just don't have the muscle maturity and the amount of steroids you add don't make that big of a difference. And all you do is increase more and more risk or you don't have.

Sal Destefano (42:54)

The diet or the training.

Adam Schafer (42:56)

Well, yeah, exactly. Those things just were not there. It took years of bro.

Sal Destefano (43:01)

The doses that you. Because you're open about it, it's not like you hide it. What you took to become a pro physique competitor was like half of the way you messed around.

Adam Schafer (43:09)

Oh, yes. Oh, yeah. Not less than, wow. I took way more. And when I was a kid, way more because of that same reason. Took a little bit. And it's like, oh, yeah, I feel a little bit. But I thought that I've only put on like five pounds or, you know what I'm saying, must need more of it and then. Must need more. And then I. And of course, I'm taking advice from these big bodybuilder guys that are like, oh, yeah, a gram's not that much. You know what I'm saying? Telling you that it's not that much. And all these guys are all doing it, thinking it's okay.

Sal Destefano (43:34)

And it's like, bro, you should see what they're recommending. They're having this. There's this one guy, and he sounds smart. He sounds like a smart dude. I would have got fooled if I was 19, for sure, because he sounds like a smart guy. I would have been like, oh, he knows what he's talking about. He's having his clients take. They're like, they're taking this much Testosterone, this much MasterOne. Now this is an anabolic steroid. Then he's adding a little bit of this anavar, and then he's taking this much growth hormone. Like, what?

Justin Andrews (43:59)

Oh, my God.

Sal Destefano (44:00)

You're going. You're on hard.

Adam Schafer (44:01)

Are they young clients or older clients?

Sal Destefano (44:02)

They're in their 20s.

Adam Schafer (44:03)

Oh, wow.

Sal Destefano (44:04)

Yeah, 20s and 30s.

Adam Schafer (44:05)

Wow.

Sal Destefano (44:06)

So anyway, that's what they. So, like, you talked about the train twins, which kind of train twins was. Yeah, but that's. These little. These little dudes are real short, but kind of, you know, little meaty guys, and they just talk about how much steroids and they work out and they yell at each other.

Adam Schafer (44:18)

Well, you know what? You know what's so dangerous?

Sal Destefano (44:19)

They are funny, but it's like, come on.

Adam Schafer (44:20)

You know what's so dangerous now, too? Is that the. The best advice doesn't surface to the top. It's the most shocking.

Sal Destefano (44:28)

Yes, that's what goes viral.

Adam Schafer (44:30)

That's what goes viral.

Justin Andrews (44:31)

So somebody like freak show.

Adam Schafer (44:33)

Yeah, like somebody who's talking about a very conservative this and boring science and this. You know, I'm like, that's not going to go anywhere. It's like it's always going to be.

Justin Andrews (44:41)

Just liver king and all that.

Sal Destefano (44:42)

Yeah, yeah.

Adam Schafer (44:43)

No, it is.

Justin Andrews (44:44)

That's the only thing that's going to be popular in these social media things.

Adam Schafer (44:48)

And you think that our. Our kid or your guys.

Sal Destefano (44:50)

Kids.

Adam Schafer (44:50)

Your kids are kind of in it right now, you know? Do you think by your younger kid or your younger kids? My. My kid, when they get older, will be more privy to that? I hope, like, that these. These algorithms feed these. Feed these people to the top because it's a wow factor more than it is. It's good.

Justin Andrews (45:08)

Well, at least he knows it's ridiculous and he has conversations with me about it, but it's like he's still drawn to it because it's entertaining.

Adam Schafer (45:15)

Yeah.

Justin Andrews (45:16)

And they're freaks. Like, so I think it's somewhat human nature. It's like you're drawn to these, of.

Sal Destefano (45:20)

Course, oddballs, you know, like the circus.

Adam Schafer (45:23)

Back in the days, you know, it's.

Sal Destefano (45:24)

Wild to me, just on this topic, just hopefully some kid is listening so I could get through to you a little bit. Because of Mind Pump, because of the podcast, we started getting popular. I had the opportunity to sit down with some of my old bodybuilding heroes, like, guys that were like. Like back in the 90s that were crushing. I got to talk to them off air, and they were very candid about everything that happened. But I thought it was all about, like, oh, this guy got that big because he did way more drugs than everybody else. He did a lot. Yeah. And he'd tell me, he's like, no, dude. He's like, I'm telling you the truth. Like, this is. Now, I know some guys lie. I get that. But I believe them because genetics are crazy.

Justin Andrews (46:00)

It's a lot of factors.

Sal Destefano (46:01)

And you have genetic how you respond to food. I remember when Ben Pakulski just crushed my paradigm because I talked to him and I said, God, pro bodybuilders have the best digestion. He's like, what do you mean? I'm like, you guys are able to eat 10,000 calories a day and get big. He goes, what? He goes, no, pro bodybuilders can get big on low calories. That's what makes them pros. And I'm like, of course. Of course that's what it is. Because I remember as a kid, I could eat 7,000 calories.

Justin Andrews (46:26)

Sustain that.

Sal Destefano (46:27)

I know, dude.

Justin Andrews (46:28)

Yeah, it made a lot more sense.

Sal Destefano (46:29)

Totally different. Totally different. Anyway, speaking of crazy, of not science, did you guys see the viral study on transgender athletes?

Adam Schafer (46:38)

Oh, yeah. They're trying to. They're trying to.

Justin Andrews (46:40)

I didn't read it. I know it was promoted on. I love science, but I just. I couldn't. Like, what was. Give me the Cliff Notes.

Sal Destefano (46:47)

It's terrible.

Adam Schafer (46:48)

We're trying to make the case that there's no advantage.

Sal Destefano (46:50)

Well, I'll read to you already.

Justin Andrews (46:52)

I got questions.

Sal Destefano (46:53)

I'll read to you guys. Like, like one of the headline type thing. By the way, just some hope you read the comments. Nobody believes it. Yeah, nobody believes it. Everybody underneath is like, okay, like, yeah, roll my eyes.

Justin Andrews (47:05)

It sounds like a total.

Sal Destefano (47:06)

So here's what it says. Landmark study finds no fitness advantage for trans athletes in women's sports. So a landmark study published in the British Journal of Sports Medicine has found that transgender women who undergo hormone therapy might not have a fitness Advantage in women's sports. The research, which analyzed data from over 6,400 participants, concluded that after transitioning, trans women show no significant difference in strength, endurance, or oxygen consumption compared to cisgender women, or as I like to call them, women. The findings challenge assumptions about trans women's athletic advantage. The researchers noted the need for further studies. Okay, so here's what you have here. When you have men and women, when you go more to the extremes of athletic performance. So if I start to move out here with strength, stamina, endurance, bone density, that kind of stuff, there's more men on that extreme, and there's more women on the extreme over here, where they're weaker. Less strength, less stamina, but there's a crossover in the middle. In other words, if you gave me the average dude and had him lift weights with the strongest female power lifter, she's going to crush him. She's just going to crush him. We know this. You give me an average dude and have him fight the top female MMA athlete that weighs about the same, she'll kick the crap out of him. Okay, that's just. That's just. Okay, so there's some crossover, but it's the extremes where things get wonky. So when you're competing for first place. Yeah. And you were a man for most of your life, you have a major advantage. And that's. The data clearly shows. And this is an example of how they used data to twist and mold outcomes to communicate crap.

Adam Schafer (48:41)

So based off of what you're saying, then the 64 participants, they use 64,000 or 64,000 participants.

Sal Destefano (48:49)

6,400.

Adam Schafer (48:49)

Yeah, 6,400. The 6,400 participants had to be, like, these average athletes.

Sal Destefano (48:56)

Yeah. People who just like, oh, I'm gonna go get fitness tests. I'm gonna go, whatever. But if you. Again, if you look at, like, competitive sports, what you'll see is an advantage, and that's really what matters. Like, I don't care about pickup basketball. Like, I don't think anybody cares that transgender athletes are showing up at the rec league.

Justin Andrews (49:13)

No. Who cares?

Sal Destefano (49:13)

Whatever. Fine. We're gonna go play. We're gonna go swim in the pool, whatever. But high school, especially college, especially professional sports.

Adam Schafer (49:19)

Yeah, yeah.

Sal Destefano (49:20)

Come on.

Adam Schafer (49:20)

We're.

Justin Andrews (49:21)

Scholarships are on the line and records are on the line. It's like, it's funny that we did.

Adam Schafer (49:26)

Yeah. It's funny that we need a. A study to try and prove that when.

Justin Andrews (49:29)

It's.

Adam Schafer (49:30)

When you can, if you ever want. If you've watched some of these, it's.

Justin Andrews (49:32)

Like, there's very clear physiological advantages. It's gaslighting. Otherwise, it's clear.

Adam Schafer (49:37)

It's like the MMA transgender that was.

Sal Destefano (49:39)

Just pounding the crap.

Adam Schafer (49:41)

Just not even. It's not even close, dude.

Sal Destefano (49:44)

No, I, I. Because I. I've. I've had conversations with friends about this, and they're like, well, I know a woman that could out squat you to me. I'm like, yeah, dude, you're talking about the strongest woman in the world, and I'm just a dude that lifts weights.

Justin Andrews (49:57)

So now let me go find the strongest.

Sal Destefano (49:58)

On the other hand, show me the strongest man in the world compared to the strongest woman in the world. And there's a massive difference.

Justin Andrews (50:05)

Huge gap.

Sal Destefano (50:05)

There's a massive difference. So you can't look at the averages because there's crossover and everything with men and women, but it's the extremes where he starts to see the gender differences. And so this. And they really did a good job of twisting, and it's, like, going viral. I hear people now, but again, some hope. The comments were like. Nobody was buying, dude. Everybody in the comments was like, cool.

Adam Schafer (50:25)

Well, since we're touching the third.

Sal Destefano (50:26)

From the people that brought you fluoride in your water, since you're touching the.

Adam Schafer (50:29)

Third rail already, why don't. I'm so. I'm so curious right now. Your thoughts on what. What's going on with these Epstein files and the stuff that we're seeing? Well, there's. I have two things that I want to ask. Like, one, it's crazy to me that stuff, like, the pandemic that has come out, and it's pretty clear that this was completely planned, that I watched families get divided over. How are we not in just an uproar of, like, somebody has to hang for this. I mean, that. I mean, people got killed over this. Families are still divided over. Over this thing. It was probably. If you grew up in the last 15 years, it was the most tragic thing you've probably. You've probably been through. And we're not. We're not in an upheaval. And then the. The other two part to this question.

Justin Andrews (51:24)

I have to answer to it, because they were, you know, protected. So, yeah. And there's certain individuals that led this whole thing that are protected, and they were from the very beginning. And so, yeah, it's frustrating.

Adam Schafer (51:35)

So someone. Someone dm. DM me that, like, how they're like, you know, I'm. Are you guys. I feel like you guys are skirting around this conversation. And I'll tell you what. And this leads to the second question. So hang in there. What I said to him that I don't feel like we're skirting around it. I think we're just cautiously waiting to see what's going to happen because there's another part of me that goes, why are we just now getting this? And this is the information we're getting and how much do we not know?

Sal Destefano (52:03)

Yeah.

Adam Schafer (52:04)

And is it really about this? And there's.

Sal Destefano (52:06)

There's more.

Adam Schafer (52:07)

There's really more that meets the eye. Like what? Like this. These are the questions I have. This is why I'm not. Because I, I.

Justin Andrews (52:13)

There's a part of me that thinks disseminate.

Adam Schafer (52:15)

Yeah. That what, what we're seeing here are a bunch of scapegoats and that were intentionally being used as scapegoats so that the real people in power and control that will keep it. Will keep it moving and is so like, I'm not on any team right now. And I heard you guys say before we started podcast, I hadn't heard it before, that there's the new saying is the clear pill.

Sal Destefano (52:37)

Yeah.

Justin Andrews (52:38)

Yeah.

Adam Schafer (52:38)

Right. So there's the, the blue pill, the, the red pill, clear pill.

Sal Destefano (52:42)

It's like they're both pills are crazy. Yeah.

Justin Andrews (52:45)

The world is a stage. That's the clear pill.

Adam Schafer (52:47)

And I just caution anybody else that were friends of ours and, and content creators to, like, you know, it's real easy to want to jump on a side on this.

Sal Destefano (52:55)

Well, there's two, two parts that, Because I'm. Same thing, dude. I see it and I'm like, oh, my God. Like, first off, this, this, this confirms the, the big leak of the Podesta emails from back then. And if you've never read them, please don't, don't. It'll disturb you, bum you out for. This is a huge email leak that was put on. What's that?

Adam Schafer (53:15)

WikiLeaks.

Sal Destefano (53:16)

WikiLeaks. Yep. So it all.

Adam Schafer (53:17)

Cor.

Sal Destefano (53:18)

It's all like. You see it. You're like, oh, my God, it's true. It's all real. So I think part of it is a. Who's going to go after all the people in the emails when everybody's implicated, which side is going to arrest the other side on both sides or all the sides, you have the top billionaires, top scientists, political leaders from both sides, other countries cooperating with us, everything integrated. Yeah. Like religious leaders. You see the Dalai Lama visited Epstein. Yeah. Okay. Like, who's going to make the move when everybody's in on it? And then Two, if everybody's in on it, why are they releasing it?

Adam Schafer (53:51)

Yeah, that's the part I'm like.

Sal Destefano (53:53)

And I think. I think I sent you a video my wife sent me this morning, and she's like, I think this may be true, accurate. I think, because it's clear when you read the emails that they play a game of psychological warfare on the public to manipulate us. This is what they did with COVID It's what they do with the world wars just to get us to freak out and then manipulate us and act in a particular way.

Justin Andrews (54:12)

So they overthrow governments.

Sal Destefano (54:14)

It's just another part of the psychological warfare. So why would they put this out now to freak us all out about everything? I don't know. One theory is because they're preparing to get everybody to be up in arms against the powers that be. So we got to overthrow everybody and get this new government, this new world order or whatever.

Justin Andrews (54:34)

There'll be a vacuum.

Sal Destefano (54:35)

Yeah. So I don't know, because it's true. It's like, wait a minute. If everybody's in on it, if all the powerful people are in it, how the hell this get released? Yeah. Why? Because the people are like, release the Epstein files. They wouldn't give a. Don't care. Yeah.

Justin Andrews (54:46)

And also, this is all just from the FBI's collections, not even from the CIA. It goes really, really far.

Sal Destefano (54:54)

And supposedly the FBI, the CIA, other intelligence agencies were using Epstein island for blackmail. So why are they releasing it now? I think it's true. I think they're trying to still mess with the psychologically and they're. They're going to come out with something.

Adam Schafer (55:07)

It's really interesting. And I love the, like, we got to be. I love the clear pill thing because I told you, I have, I have these. I have these personal threads of like, family and friends that. And that, like, I have like a, like, liberal thread and a conservative thread. So it's probably really good for me that I have both. Right. Because I see it and I remember during the pandemic, like, man, really struggling to. To connect and to see eye to eye with my. My liberal side of my family and friends. And I'm like, man, these. They just are there. They've drank the Kool Aid all the way. Right. But now I see it on my, My, My right side.

Justin Andrews (55:38)

Yeah.

Sal Destefano (55:39)

That are just like Trump's in the emails a bunch of times.

Adam Schafer (55:41)

Yeah. We got so pro. So pro the other side and like celebrate. I'm like, whoa, dude. I'm like, you guys should pump your.

Justin Andrews (55:48)

Brakes a Little bit ignore information, right?

Adam Schafer (55:51)

Yeah.

Justin Andrews (55:51)

If it's not like something you want.

Adam Schafer (55:53)

To promote, it just shows you how easily everybody is fed by their own algorithms. And they do such a good job on both sides, like convincing you that you're right. Your team is this. This is all the science, all the information, all this stuff to support your argument. And so to kind of be like somebody who doesn't really identify as one, one side or the other.

Justin Andrews (56:15)

That's all wrestling to me.

Sal Destefano (56:19)

Yeah, it's.

Justin Andrews (56:19)

You literally have your heel. You have your.

Sal Destefano (56:22)

Oh, pro wrestling. Yes.

Justin Andrews (56:23)

Pro wrestling.

Adam Schafer (56:24)

Yeah.

Sal Destefano (56:24)

Yeah, it's.

Justin Andrews (56:25)

Everybody has their. Their part that they're playing and they're projecting and you know.

Adam Schafer (56:30)

You know why that's such a good example, Justin? I actually was just watching the. The Netflix series on that right now too. Katrina and I. That's like some of around tv.

Sal Destefano (56:37)

And by the way, even when people know it's fake.

Adam Schafer (56:39)

Well, that's. So that the point. More people watch the. The SummerSlam and the wwe. Then Super Bowl.

Sal Destefano (56:47)

Yeah.

Adam Schafer (56:48)

That's how popular.

Sal Destefano (56:49)

And we all know it's fake.

Adam Schafer (56:50)

Yes.

Sal Destefano (56:50)

Yeah.

Adam Schafer (56:51)

So that's like. Think about that for a second and then.

Sal Destefano (56:53)

Yeah.

Justin Andrews (56:53)

Yeah. Real excited.

Adam Schafer (56:54)

Yeah. We at least believe football, although there's a lot of people.

Sal Destefano (56:58)

We used to believe football.

Adam Schafer (56:59)

Some people think it's all scripted too, but I know why now. Oh, man.

Sal Destefano (57:04)

It's.

Adam Schafer (57:04)

Everything is, you know, saying meddled a little bit with. But yeah, so it. You see the. The amount of people that are. Get behind it. Get behind characters when they all know it's. It's a. But it's like, that's such a great example of even how we navigate through the real world and politics and everything that's going on. It's just like we buy so hard into our team and our guy without. Without everything.

Justin Andrews (57:27)

You feel the narrative. That's all we have to go off of.

Sal Destefano (57:29)

The question is like. Because I have people. I hear people like, what do we do? Yeah, what do we do? Well, here's what you do. You stay calm. Yeah. When this. When the. You know what hits the fan, just stay calm because it's gonna hit the fan and you're gonna want to like, grab your pitchfork and you'd be ready for whatever. Just stay calm because it's obvious that they like us to be afraid and to be angry.

Adam Schafer (57:50)

The advice we gave last. Last podcast where we like about your own community is. Yeah, exactly.

Sal Destefano (57:55)

Focus on people.

Adam Schafer (57:56)

Focus. Focus on your. Your family, your neighbor, your closest friends and. And like, don't get caught up in everything else, when you hear trumpets in.

Sal Destefano (58:05)

The sky, you know what's happening.

Adam Schafer (58:08)

Yeah.

Justin Andrews (58:09)

Just stick with what you. You have influence and control over. And I think that we've all been.

Adam Schafer (58:14)

Pulled out of that.

Sal Destefano (58:14)

But that's. It's.

Justin Andrews (58:16)

That's where the problems all arise.

Adam Schafer (58:17)

Point of me bringing that up is because I don't know you guys. I've gotten several DMS from people that have heard us, like, talk about certain characters or people, and they're like, they want to hear us, like. Like, why aren't you saying more about this person? I'm like, man, you guys are so easily manipulated by your finger. Yeah. Like, I'm not.

Sal Destefano (58:34)

I'm.

Adam Schafer (58:35)

Hey, I'm. I am on any of their teams. No, I'm not on any of their teams.

Kyle (Caller) (58:38)

No.

Adam Schafer (58:39)

Yeah. None of their teams don't. Just because I have certain values that might align with somebody's team, it doesn't.

Sal Destefano (58:45)

Mean I had a client.

Justin Andrews (58:45)

I know everybody wants that. Gotcha.

Adam Schafer (58:47)

Yeah.

Sal Destefano (58:48)

What's that quote like? None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who believe that free. I think that's so true. So true. I had a client once tell me, great advice. This is when I was getting into, like, understanding politics for the first time, and I was getting all whatever, and he's like, would you let him babysit your kids? No. He's like, why? I don't know. I'm like, yeah, so stop trusting them so much. Right? Oh, yeah, you're right. That's my. That's my new. That's my litmus test when I let them babysit my kids. Nah, I'm probably not gonna. Yeah.

Justin Andrews (59:16)

Listen to everything.

Adam Schafer (59:17)

Well, even too, like we said before, like, anybody who wants that kind of power that bad, he's like, shouldn't have it. Yeah. Yeah.

Sal Destefano (59:22)

Shouldn't have.

Justin Andrews (59:22)

They're vermin.

Adam Schafer (59:23)

The type of character it takes to. To do that.

Sal Destefano (59:26)

Imagine climbing the ladder to try to be president. What you got to do, the hands you got to shake. Well, now we know. Yeah. You know.

Adam Schafer (59:32)

You know when it was really eye opening for me, I don't remember how old I was when. When I realized how little they get paid. Well, that was enough for me because I always felt like. I always thought, like, oh, it's just.

Sal Destefano (59:42)

Super high paid job, 400 grand a year.

Adam Schafer (59:44)

Like, I'm like, so, okay, wait, let me get this right. So a lot of these really Google.

Justin Andrews (59:48)

And then questioning that you'll get sued. Right. You see what happened with Sean Ryan or.

Sal Destefano (59:53)

Yeah.

Adam Schafer (59:53)

Oh, he's been taking all kinds of.

Justin Andrews (59:54)

Heat yeah, well, he just like, starts kind of looking at, oh, you know, some senators and some people. I'm not mentioning it. So we don't get sued.

Sal Destefano (60:01)

They get. They get in. They make. How much does center make? 250 grand a year. And then you look, they serve for five years. They come out, and they're worth a.

Justin Andrews (60:07)

Hundred million, ninety million dollars.

Sal Destefano (60:09)

How like, excuse me, how did you. You definitely didn't earn that other business.

Justin Andrews (60:13)

And you know. Oh, it's just investments. Is that we're talking.

Sal Destefano (60:15)

People get in trouble for following their trades. That's my fav. Favorite. There was a page on X that was like, copying Pelosi's trades and whatever.

Adam Schafer (60:23)

Oh, they got in trouble for that?

Sal Destefano (60:24)

Yeah, dude. Now other people have popped up and they fought for it because you follow their trades, you'll crush the market, dude. How do they know?

Justin Andrews (60:32)

I think that you taking money from other, like, countries and you don't think that's gonna have influence on, like, our own country is. Is hilarious.

Adam Schafer (60:40)

How. How skeptical are you guys now of bitcoin now that it came out that Epstein was. Was part of funding all that stuff?

Sal Destefano (60:46)

60 of the people there he was giving. He was giving money to.

Shayla (Caller) (60:50)

Wow.

Sal Destefano (60:50)

They cried. I mean, bitcoin.

Adam Schafer (60:52)

I saw Tank.

Justin Andrews (60:53)

Yeah.

Adam Schafer (60:54)

That's why. Because we. We. This whole time, it was supposed to be like, a thing. They free us. And if it's tied to that, dude, that's the completely. It's the complete opposite.

Justin Andrews (61:04)

Nobody wants to hold on to that.

Sal Destefano (61:05)

Yeah.

Adam Schafer (61:05)

I'm like, it's. Is it still dropping? Where's it at Now, Doug?

Doug (61:08)

It's at 70, 000.

Adam Schafer (61:09)

Oh, it went up a little. It rebounded a little bit. Yeah.

Sal Destefano (61:11)

It was at hundreds.

Adam Schafer (61:12)

Okay.

Sal Destefano (61:12)

Yeah. Then went down to, like, Interesting.

Adam Schafer (61:14)

Yeah, like that. Yeah. Which was depressing mainly just because I bet you. Because you know, that they made. They did this. It's not a law. It's a. It's a. It's a tax exempt thing. Did you see this, Doug? So if you. So let's say you bought at 100 bitcoin and you. You lose. Okay. Down to 50. Say you dropped all the way down to 60, which it dropped.

Sal Destefano (61:33)

Can you write off the losses?

Adam Schafer (61:34)

You could write off the losses against capital gains.

Justin Andrews (61:36)

Oh, wow.

Adam Schafer (61:36)

So a lot of people that were at. Bought at 100, sold at 60, took the 40,000, and then they. They can write that 40,000 against capital gain. So if you'd flipped a house or made money.

Sal Destefano (61:46)

Oh, wow.

Adam Schafer (61:47)

And so. And then you re. Buy right back into the the market. So they, they. You. Did you know that?

Doug (61:51)

Oh, I didn't know that.

Sal Destefano (61:52)

You can do that with stocks, right? You could write off your, your losses right now?

Doug (61:56)

Yeah, I believe you can.

Chris (Caller) (61:56)

Yeah.

Doug (61:58)

Against capital gains.

Sal Destefano (61:59)

Doug, are you taking, are you taking the rho creatine? Is that what that is? Yeah. Have you been taking it? I have been. What do you think?

Doug (62:05)

I mean, it's great. You just squirt it in your mouth and you're done.

Sal Destefano (62:07)

Yeah. So. So the, they're glutathione and nad. That's the one.

Adam Schafer (62:10)

That's right. That's what I use every day.

Sal Destefano (62:12)

So they're so for people who are unfamiliar, it's a, it's a company that makes supplements that are all liposomal, which means they're encased in a liposome, which is a fat to incur it to get it to be absorbed and used. So I'll use glutathione as an example. If you look up glutathione supplementation, if it's not liposomal, you might as well be. You might as well just take your money and burn it. You just don't absorb it. If it's liposomal, it will raise your blood levels.

Adam Schafer (62:39)

We've had other partners that do this. I like the fact that it's in a bottle that I could just squeeze.

Sal Destefano (62:44)

And it tastes all right.

Adam Schafer (62:45)

Yes. Yeah. So it's just.

Sal Destefano (62:46)

Because we had the other one, it.

Adam Schafer (62:47)

Was, well, not only was it gross, but it's also the effort to tear the package and do the whole thing. So it's like this thing. I just pop the lid and then take it. And I've been super consistent with it. So.

Sal Destefano (62:57)

But that's the thing is that is their delivery system, which they do a good job. They have a following that is fervent. As soon as we started talking about it, we had people come on. We're like, I've been using it for years.

Adam Schafer (63:06)

Yeah, I didn't know that. I didn't know how big and popular they were before I, I, they, When they first started sending stuff to us, that was the first time I had heard of them. But they, they're, they're big.

Sal Destefano (63:13)

Yeah.

Adam Schafer (63:13)

Yeah, they're real big.

Sal Destefano (63:15)

Butcherbox is a company that delivers grass fed meat, heritage pork, wild caught fish and more to your door. You want healthy protein, you want healthy meat, you want good prices. That's Butcherbox, by the way. We've put together with Butcherbox a mind pump box. Okay. Here's what's in it. Rib eyes, chicken Thighs, steak tips, ribs, chicken nuggets. These are gluten free and flat iron steak. These are our favorite cuts. So you can literally click on the Mind Pump box and that's what gets delivered to your door. And by the way, if you go to butcherbox.com mindpump New users are also gonna get their choice of organic ground beef, chicken breast or ground turkey included for free in their box for an entire year. You gotta go check them out.

Doug (64:01)

Our first caller is Karen from the uk.

Sal Destefano (64:04)

Hi, Karen, how you doing?

Justin Andrews (64:05)

Karen, hello.

Karen (Caller) (64:06)

Hi guys. Thanks ever so much. I'm in a bit of shock, really. I can't believe this. So, so thank you so much for having me. I just want to say a big thank you to you, actually. Thanks for listening to me today. And also I've been listening to you guys for over a year now and you really have helped me so much move on from a bit of a dodgy place I was in. So. And also thanks for the tip about the pots and pans from our place because my husband and I bought a set for our with our Christmas money and they're brilliant. So thanks.

Adam Schafer (64:32)

Aren't they great?

Justin Andrews (64:33)

Yeah.

Karen (Caller) (64:33)

Nice one. Well, I'll get if I just read out my email. It's probably gonna be this way to do it. So apologize for the essay. Right, okay. So I've been following you guys for about a year and it's around about last year that I had a chat with Margaret and she advised me to go and do Anabolic, which I've run twice. Then I had a chat with Kyle who then advised me to run Symmetry and then do Muscle Mummy. So I've done both of those as well. And I also did join the Muscle Mummy movement for a bit and had a great chat with Corinne who helped me a lot and advised me that I need to, needed to sort of move my calories up because originally last year I was in 1700 and I'd moved up to 2000. She advised me to reverse diet up to 2 4, which I did. Very scary, but I did it. I also had a chat with Marcello as well. He then pushed me up to 26 and advised me to do that while I was doing Muscle Mummy and then said also about then moving on to Max Strong because I said that I, I wanted to build muscle but lose about 5% body fat at that point. So I haven't run that one yet because I started on Max 15 because I was like, I want to give that a go. So that's where I'm at At the moment, with that, I have. So at the moment I have actually I'm getting all that dropped my calories back down recently because where my job is so active normally in January it gets very quiet and I had a bit of a panic about my activity level. So I was at 2, 6 and then I got to January, panicked about it and dropped down to 22 because I was really worried about gaining body fat. I have two jobs. I am mainly a singer, but I also trained to be a nutrition coach a few years ago off the back of my history, and I've been trying to help people ever since get out of the ruts like I got myself in for many years. Okay. So at the moment I'm on 2,200 calories, 140 grams of protein, about 75 grams of fat, and the rest is made up with car stroke fiber, and the majority of my diet is whole foods. I hardly drink. I've really made an effort with all of that. I'm on 10 milligrams of creatine A day after because obviously I listen to you guys every day. And I'm also an Omega 3s D3 plus K2. My scale weight when I started last year was 57.1 kilos. I hope kilos is all right. I know you guys work in pounds, don't you? And my skeletal muscle mass was about 22.9 and my body fat percentage about 26, 6.6. Now as of yesterday, I'm at 60 kilos. Muscle mass is about 23.6. So that's good. But my, my body fat percentage is 28.3. It's, it's done. It's got a bit up and down over this whole course, but that's where I'm sat at about the moment I'm on hrt. I'm on estrogen and progesterone. I was on testosterone for libido issues. I stopped it a few months back because when I started lifting heavy, thanks to listening to you guys, start to notice a natural increase of my testosterone. So I decided to come off of it because my. I was having a bit of an issue with excessive hair growth in the upper thigh area and I wasn't keen on that. So I thought I'd give it a go off it to see how I fared. And my libido has been all right. Actually, I've felt pretty good, but I don't know if that's affected me at all. My positives for all of this is my strength increase has been quite significant. Deadlift has probably gone up about 20 kilos, squat 10 kilos and my bench 10 to 15. Corinne gave me some sort of goals to work to which I'm getting close to which is good. Generally my sleep, I track it a lot now. Seven hours if I work. I work a lot. Late nights, six and a half. But I try to make it up on other nights if I'm not working.

Adam Schafer (68:18)

I.

Karen (Caller) (68:19)

My perimenopausal symptoms, I was getting quite bad dips. They've improved a lot and I'm experiencing. My major thing is, is, and I haven't got to that yet is that I. I've had. I've got a 20 year history with bulimia and body dysmorphia and I've seen numerous counselors. I've had all been in today centers and everything. So I'm not binging and purging anymore since I increased calories. So that's a major bonus. I just, I'm sort of. I'm stuck in a rut now. I don't feel like I've got the body I really want. I did send you the photographs. I just feel like I've got bigger against muscle. I just feel like my fat mats got a lot higher. I don't like what I see in the mirror. My dresses have all got tight. I have to stand on stage in front of people. It's. It's making me lose a bit of confidence. I had some lady come up, poke me in the belly, told me I put on weight, knocked me back. I did pull my eyes out over that, I have to be honest. But I didn't. I woke up the next day. Don't let it stop me from what I'm trying to do. I've got so far. I can't go back on this now. So I just kept with it. That was. That was in November last year. I'm 47. I'm a mother of two boys. I've worked with a coach previously. This is 21, 22 and she reverse dieted me from 15 to 2:1 in calories. I got leaner at that point. So that's what led me on to training to be a nutrition coach myself. I wanted to help people get out of their own head over this and try and feel better about themselves. So I really have tried to do something positive off the back of it and generally help people to feel better about themselves. So I'm also doing that as a sideline as well. I just seem to be able to help people better than I can Help myself. But I am dealing with a lot of reverse diet clients, and they all hate me for it because I'm. I'm. Have they having to trust me, but I just feel like I. I can't trust myself, so I'm a bit stuck. I just would appreciate your guidance. And what. Where I'm supposed to go with this? Should I keep with the cut? This reduced calorie. Should I go on a different program? I think I've covered most of the stuff anyway. So. Over to you guys.

Adam Schafer (70:21)

You're doing so good. Yeah, Karen, you're doing so good.

Sal Destefano (70:25)

So many wins.

Adam Schafer (70:25)

Oh, my. Yes. You're doing so good.

Justin Andrews (70:28)

You got to recognize all this. Those.

Sal Destefano (70:29)

So many. So many wins.

Adam Schafer (70:31)

Yeah.

Sal Destefano (70:32)

So many wins. Strength. You're not. You're not purging.

Adam Schafer (70:37)

I know where your calories are at. The highest they've been probably in years or ever.

Sal Destefano (70:42)

Your pictures look amazing.

Adam Schafer (70:43)

You look great. You're doing great.

Sal Destefano (70:45)

You're feeling better.

Karen (Caller) (70:47)

Yeah.

Sal Destefano (70:48)

Yeah. The enemy, the battle is in your mind. Yeah. The battle is all in your mind. And you've dealt with this for 20 years. It's going to take some time.

Justin Andrews (70:56)

Yeah.

Sal Destefano (70:57)

Yeah. And it's going to keep coming after you. And, you know, I think you're moving in the right direction. It's going to be difficult. Some of the things that can help you with this is to let go a little bit of the control. And I know that's where it stems from.

Shayla (Caller) (71:14)

Yeah.

Kyle (Caller) (71:15)

Yeah.

Sal Destefano (71:15)

So control can look like restricting. It can look like purging. It could also look like counting macros and weighing myself and testing my body fat and. And analyzing my workouts. It can look like all those things. And so the path. The path forward is letting go of control. That's easier said than done. And so you got to let go one piece at a time and then make peace with it and be okay. I'm really sorry that somebody came up to you and said what they said, but I want to remind you that your value. You're a valuable person. What other somebody else, some random person says to you, doesn't matter.

Karen (Caller) (71:57)

This is my job. This is what I don't. I don't. People don't come up. They do come up and say, you know, great singing, but the majority of it is, oh, you. You know, why have you changed your hair? Why'd you look like that? Why have you done. You know, why. You know, you. Why don't you wear that dress? You know, and it's just.

Shayla (Caller) (72:09)

It can.

Karen (Caller) (72:10)

I'm very good at faking stuff. I'm really great at that. I've got this mask on, but it's, it's hard, it slips, you know, to put yourself.

Adam Schafer (72:17)

Yeah.

Sal Destefano (72:18)

On stage.

Adam Schafer (72:19)

Yeah. To put yourself on stage like that with the. When, especially when you're challenged with the. This is extremely difficult. So also keep in mind this, the. So when we're, when we're reverse dieting and we're building muscle and we're building metabolism, it doesn't work in this like perfect linear, like just leaning out and just speeding up the metabolism. So what will happen sometimes is which. Because the fact, by the way too, I am not only am I impressed with you, I'm very impressed with our team. The fact that you talked to six different people and they were all giving you great advice. I know, all different. They were all different. And they're all giving you the right advice along the way, which is so awesome. That makes me feel really happy about my team that they're just all on the same page. So. Because to bounce around to that many people and everybody giving you the right advice from everything from programming to reverse dieting to the goals that Corinne gave you, I think is phenomenal. And I even think staying up at that 2600 calorie would have served you. And just hanging out there, just like give yourself time to acclimate to that new calorie intake, build some strength.

Karen (Caller) (73:20)

Strength.

Adam Schafer (73:20)

After you build that strength, then that metabolism starts to speed up. And then you see the lean out process. It doesn't always happen. Like what you saw from the, the 1700-2100 calories. Sometimes that was, you were just so malnutrition that you started to get calories. Your body responded with lots of muscle, built a bunch of muscle, and then all of a sudden you got leaner. And so it's like, whoa, I increased calories, I got leaner. It doesn't always happen that way. Forever. You'll, you'll keep increasing calories and then what it will look like sometimes as you'll get to a new number, like 2600 and you, you put on a little bit of muscle, you put on a little bit of body fat, but then you kind of level out and then you're like, ah, I don't feel better yet. But give it some time, keep getting stronger, keep working in the training. And then all of a sudden you build a little more muscle. Then all of a sudden the metabolism kicks up and then all of a sudden you lean out. And so it's not always like this perfect. So you were doing all the right things. I think you got it in your head with the, like, even with your activity reducing, I still would have kept your calories up there. I would have really.

Karen (Caller) (74:13)

I ran a ranch. I was starting to see the changes. I got to the end. I love the last phase of muscle mummy, the 5x5, you know, and I got to that stage, I was starting to see some and then I hit. I mean, Christmas is crazy for me. Work wise. I hit January and then it started to shift back a bit and I was like, oh, no. And that's when I panicked.

Adam Schafer (74:32)

Yeah. Here's your. So you were in the right place. You really were. And this is where the coach part helps to have someone in your ear because obviously if I was talking to you on a more regular basis, I would have been like, Karen, you're good, good. Don't worry. I'm not worried about your steps coming way down and your activity coming down because we're lifting. Right. We're feeding the body. Right. And don't worry, that metabolism is going to come up and then you're going to see yourself lean out. Just stay the course. So I actually think you did. You've done really good. And honestly, you cutting back down in the calories. What might have happened was you might a lot. You might have pared down a little bit of muscle and that's why you saw the body fat percentage go the direction. You didn't like it yet. You were actually on the right track. You were actually doing.

Karen (Caller) (75:11)

Yeah, I think that's. Yeah, you're right. I think that's what's happened here. I mean, I wish I just stuck with it. I was going to start strong, you see, and then I just. I don't know why I just, I went off and that's why I went to Matthew. I don't know why.

Sal Destefano (75:23)

Mat 15 is fine. Too strong is.

Karen (Caller) (75:25)

Is it?

Sal Destefano (75:26)

Yeah. They're both going to be great for you.

Adam Schafer (75:27)

Yeah.

Sal Destefano (75:28)

Here's the other thing too, Karen, and what you're doing right now is you're talking about, you're talking about all of this.

Chris (Caller) (75:35)

Yeah.

Sal Destefano (75:35)

Don't. The, the. What'll make things get worse is if you keep it to yourself, they tend to flourish in the dark. Okay. The insecurities, the, the negative changes, they, they start to. They grow like mold in the dark. And so keep talking about it. And the second thing is coaching other people is really helpful.

Adam Schafer (75:52)

Yeah.

Karen (Caller) (75:54)

Yeah.

Adam Schafer (75:55)

I love that you're doing that because you can.

Karen (Caller) (75:56)

Oh, God. Yeah.

Sal Destefano (75:57)

You can share your story, you can empathize with other, Always empathize with other people better than yourself and it's going to really help you move in the right direction. This, everything you said is a massive success story story. Yeah, right.

Karen (Caller) (76:09)

Yeah, I just, yeah, I've done it. I did a teller. It's basically when I started my business few years ago, I did a video where I told everybody about my eating disorder and a lot of people had no clue because I always seems like a happy, confident person and they had no idea. Actually, I caught your clients out of it because they trusted me and they were like, we weren't what we thought you were. And it was, you know, so I, I, I, that's what. I'm not in it for the money. I really am in it because I want to help people and actually I use a lot of stuff that you talk about is what I preach to them. So I'm very grateful to you guys. I really am. I mean, my husband fed up with me talking about you all the time. But you know, you know, it's very helpful information. It's really changed my life. So I, I'm just, I'm doubting everything at the moment.

Sal Destefano (76:55)

Yeah, you're doing great. It's a challenge. And let me remind you, trainer, what makes you effective is your ability to connect with other people. And that comes from us exposing our own challenges and weaknesses. Vulnerable. When a client looks at you and thinks that you've got it all put together, it's so much harder to coach them. And it's also a lie. I don't, I've never met a single trainer in my life that's got it all together. Just doesn't exist.

Adam Schafer (77:18)

Karen, you mentioned that you came off the testosterone. When did you come off the testosterone too? Just curious.

Karen (Caller) (77:24)

Oh God. This was during Muscle Mummy. So this is like at least a couple of months or so ago.

Sal Destefano (77:31)

Just, you can adjust, you can adjust the dose. You can also look at lowering dht. Sometimes they'll prescribe something else with it or stay off of it if you feel good. Testosterone and thyroid are the aesthetic hormones. So those are the ones that tend to help.

Adam Schafer (77:46)

The reason why I bring this is the reason why I'm bringing it up and why I was curious about that. Because if we reduce calories, we dropped off the testosterone. That right there could result in that, that muscle loss that you felt.

Karen (Caller) (77:59)

Yeah, fair point, fair point.

Adam Schafer (78:01)

So, yeah, all of a sudden you back to calories. Now the body is not getting as much testosterone. The testosterone helps you build muscle. Obviously you need the nutrients to build the Muscle. The combination of the two of those could also. So I had this feeling that when you were right around 2600 calories, you were humming along just right, then got in your own head a little bit, pulled back the calories, took off the testosterone, then get a body contest, and you go, oh, this is not what I want. When it's like you were actually probably doing really good.

Karen (Caller) (78:28)

Yeah, yeah, I, I, I did change my progesterone as well. I took, I had my Marina because I wasn't sleeping very well, and I know it's the Marina, so I had that taken out, and then it pushed the GP out to put me on body identical, you see. So I don't know if that's made a little bit of a difference, but I'm, I'm very up on my hormones, you see. I've done courses and stuff in it, so. But my RGPs are a nightmare over here. They're so scared of it all. So it's, it's just, it's a fight. It's a real fight with it all.

Sal Destefano (78:53)

Progesterone is great for anxiety, great for feeling calm, great for sleep. Testosterone is the aesthetic hormone. So is thyroid. So you can always talk to them, say, hey, can I try a lower dose of the testosterone? If you're feeling like you're getting too many of the, of those other side effects or if it's good, you know, stay off. I think the biggest impact is gonna be diet, exercise, and lifestyle. And you're doing great. You're doing really the strength gains that you were, you were talking about. Phenomenal. Yeah.

Karen (Caller) (79:21)

Oh, that's good then.

Adam Schafer (79:23)

You're doing good.

Sal Destefano (79:25)

Thank you.

Karen (Caller) (79:26)

Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. Do you think that because I've got about three weeks of 15 left, do I go on to strong? Because I did want to do it in less calories.

Adam Schafer (79:36)

I love that.

Shayla (Caller) (79:36)

Next.

Sal Destefano (79:37)

No, bump your calories. Strong.

Adam Schafer (79:38)

Yep. I love that.

Kyle (Caller) (79:39)

Yeah.

Karen (Caller) (79:39)

Okay. That's what I was wondering. So I just want to check that's the right place to go with it.

Sal Destefano (79:43)

So can you call us back? I want to talk to you again a few months.

Adam Schafer (79:45)

Yeah.

Karen (Caller) (79:46)

Oh, okay.

Sal Destefano (79:47)

Let's do it.

Karen (Caller) (79:48)

Now you've got me.

Adam Schafer (79:50)

Stay on top of you. You're doing it. Doing. Stay with it.

Karen (Caller) (79:52)

Yeah.

Adam Schafer (79:52)

Doing good.

Karen (Caller) (79:53)

I'd appreciate that. That's really kind. Thank you so much, guys. You really made my day. Thank you. Take care. Yeah. See you later.

Justin Andrews (80:01)

Boy, that sweetheart.

Sal Destefano (80:03)

What a success story. But I also, I just feel that in my heart, you know, that's A challenge and that struggle. And then that person who went up to her and made that one comment, which for someone like her is just so crushing.

Adam Schafer (80:12)

Well, I mean, talk about, you know, you ever. I feel like a lot of people battle with some sort of body dysmorphia, but to, to battle with that and then also be the type of person who puts yourself on stage.

Sal Destefano (80:24)

Yeah.

Adam Schafer (80:25)

Others are going to look at you. Yeah. And constantly.

Sal Destefano (80:27)

Absolutely.

Adam Schafer (80:28)

I mean, talk about a, A really tough place. Yeah. Because like she can't win. She gets lean and muscular. She's going to get negative comments. She gets, you know, changes. Like she said, change her hair color. She's gonna get caught. Like no matter what, you get judged in comments.

Justin Andrews (80:42)

And so anytime you're on stage, it's like that.

Sal Destefano (80:44)

And you know, I also got to remember, just for people who do this, like the love you get from or hate that you get from your fans or it's not real. It's really not. It's not the same as like somebody who actually knows you.

Adam Schafer (80:56)

I really think she was doing really good.

Sal Destefano (80:58)

Crush it.

Adam Schafer (80:58)

And I think that the.

Sal Destefano (80:59)

I'm so. You're a great comment. Our team was really.

Adam Schafer (81:02)

I know. I was like, I was a little nervous because she's like, we. I got from her. Kyle K. She literally talked to like five or six of our trainers, but.

Sal Destefano (81:09)

Everybody gave good advice.

Adam Schafer (81:11)

Great, great advice. That is difficult to do, by the way. Okay.

Sal Destefano (81:15)

You find three trainers in the same.

Adam Schafer (81:16)

I mean, you get even the three of us, if we get the one.

Justin Andrews (81:20)

Person a little bit different.

Adam Schafer (81:21)

Right, exactly. To stay aligned, like that's kind of tough, you know what I'm saying? So that's awesome that everybody was right on the right direction for her.

Doug (81:30)

Our next caller is Shayla from Connecticut.

Sal Destefano (81:32)

Hi, Shayla.

Justin Andrews (81:33)

Hello.

Adam Schafer (81:34)

Hi.

Karen (Caller) (81:34)

Nice to meet you all.

Shayla (Caller) (81:35)

I'm so excited to be talking to you today.

Sal Destefano (81:37)

Yeah, same here. How can we help you?

Shayla (Caller) (81:40)

So I will go ahead and read off my question. My name is Shayla and I am a 21 year old college student and I've been lifting for about three years now. I wanted to call in because the last few months I've been struggling with recovering from an injury. In September, I started experiencing sciatic pain that was primarily in my lower back and radiated down my leg on the right side of my body. And I started to going to physical therapy and she told me that I have SI joint dysfunction. And then I started doing rehab after that and then slowly reintroduced lifting again and I got to be pain free for a little bit. And then recently, since the past week or so, I started experiencing pain again in my lower back. And then what I believe is in my piriformis muscle. Because exercises like cat and cow in 1990s, they cause pain in my lower back and right glute. Additionally, since my initial injury, I've been experiencing spasm like sensations in my right foot. Foot when I walk for extended periods of time. It's like a tingling and kind of like numb sensation and my toes kind of curl up as I'm walking. And then for a little more context, I'm 5:4, about 145 pounds. I eat around 2,300 calories a day. I consistently hit my 150 gram protein goal. We're mostly whole foods, and I average 13 to 15,000 steps a day. Essentially, I wanted to ask what program or training routine is best for me as someone whose goal is to build muscle and stay injury free with my past issues in mind.

Sal Destefano (83:18)

Yeah, thanks for calling in. So, okay, so here's sometimes what happens with physical therapy. Okay, so SI joint dysfunction, common. It's actually quite common. Piriformis syndrome, quite common. Sciatica pain as a result. Did they explain all this to you, like kind of how the piriformis muscle sits on the sciatic nerve? Nerve presses on it. Did you? They explained that to you? Okay, good.

Shayla (Caller) (83:41)

Yeah, yeah.

Sal Destefano (83:42)

Cause you know, if you have SI joint dysfunction, then you've got a lot of muscles trying to stabilize, one of them being the piriformis. And if you get that sciatica nerve pressed on long enough, it can cause tingling numbness, it could cause heat, and it can go down all the way down the leg. Usually it's in the back of the leg, but sometimes it can go down as low as what you mentioned, down to your foot. So it's all kind of related. Now here's what happens sometimes with PT is we'll, we'll rehab something until it's good enough, but not good enough to go to back to heavy training, bilateral movements, squats, deadlifts, you know, that kind of stuff. What, what movements do you think bothered it? Was it a deadlift? Was it a squat? Were you doing? What were you doing?

Adam Schafer (84:27)

Also, quick question too. Are you a athlete at all or do anything else outside of this training? Just curious.

Shayla (Caller) (84:33)

I usually, typically I run a half marathon. I've been doing that for the past three years. I'll run one a year and then I'm a group fitness instructor. So I do that. I run about four to five classes a week. At school. So that's kind of.

Sal Destefano (84:49)

I'm glad you asked.

Adam Schafer (84:50)

This is why I asked. There's other stuff. Normally probably alluding or leading to a lot of this stuff too.

Sal Destefano (84:55)

Yeah. Yeah. So how did you hurt. Reheard it. What were you doing?

Shayla (Caller) (84:59)

So the day before I started experiencing the original sciatic pain, I did a lower body day. And in that day I did hip thrusts. Bulgarians. I did Romanian deadlift. And I think it was probably the hip thrust because I typically do machine hip thrust. And that day I did barbell. And that after the first exercise of doing that, it initially started to feel like a little bit sore, but not like, like super concerning. And then the next day is when the concerning thing started.

Sal Destefano (85:29)

Are you, are you okay with reducing the group X teaching or is that how you. Are you getting paid to do that? Is that part. Is that your job through college?

Shayla (Caller) (85:38)

I am, but I did scale back on that. So during my original injury, I was teaching, I think, six classes a week. And most of them were more instruction based where I was doing the exercises with them. However, I started doing more coaching style. So I'm not necessarily doing the exercise. I'm just kind of walking around the room.

Adam Schafer (85:57)

So I've definitely scaled that back much better.

Sal Destefano (85:59)

So. So it's going to take longer than you think to get you back to a place where you go back to your, your lifting. So once you feel better, that doesn't mean you're done. Then you start to work on changing recruitment patterns. Yeah. And strengthening. I think right now a Maps 15 performance protocol would be good, which is gonna feel like a lot less than what you're probably used to. It's two lifts a day.

Shayla (Caller) (86:26)

Okay.

Sal Destefano (86:26)

And I want you to do that in combination with the correctional exercise that you got from pt. Are you still doing those?

Shayla (Caller) (86:33)

Yes, I am.

Sal Destefano (86:34)

Okay, good. And are you foam rolling your piriformis and all that stuff before you train?

Shayla (Caller) (86:39)

Yes, I started doing. I wasn't doing that recently, but in the last week or so since I started having that pain.

Sal Destefano (86:44)

Yeah, yeah. What about.

Justin Andrews (86:45)

About symmetry 15 only because.

Sal Destefano (86:48)

Oh, there you go.

Justin Andrews (86:49)

I think that unilateral emphasis will do well, especially to, you know, get that stability again. I think around the hips, especially like single leg type work is really going to go far.

Sal Destefano (87:02)

Yeah, I like that's. I forgot we had that. Symmetry 15 would be good and keep the intensity moderate for like three months.

Adam Schafer (87:08)

The, the PT work that you, they have you doing should be the, the bedrock and the foundation of the, of the movement stuff that you do. And Then the only bit of strength training is map 15 symmetry. All the other, like running classes, that stuff is only going to exacerbate this, this issue until we get really strong and stable in the hips. Going back to all that stuff is just going to, even when you start to feel good, there's going to come a point where you're like, oh, I feel good. If you go right back to all that stuff, it's going to happen again. You're like, you're not, you're a very active person. So you should, that, this should just become a part of your movement. You get down, you do all these movements that your PT had you do on a very regular basis. Absolutely. Before you do any sort of exercise or classes or so that it should be a part of it, but doing it as much as you possibly can and then strength training, all you really need is like two exercises in a workout. That's it.

Justin Andrews (88:04)

Perform very slow and controlled. So that's the other thing too is to, if we're trying to strengthen these patterns, we're really trying to be hyper aware of what's taking you out of that, that pattern. And so, you know, when you start feeling lateral forces, rotational forces taking you in a certain direction, you want to be able to correct real time and, and really slow down and be effective in that movement. To put.

Sal Destefano (88:26)

So just to put it very simple. Right. Simply, you, when you're, what you're trying to do is create a new default muscle recruitment pattern. And that takes a little longer than people think. And so what happens is you can start to train it and start to feel better.

Shayla (Caller) (88:42)

Better.

Sal Destefano (88:43)

But when you push the intensity, the old default kicks back in.

Justin Andrews (88:46)

Yeah.

Sal Destefano (88:47)

Because it's a strong, it's a stronger program still.

Justin Andrews (88:49)

Yeah.

Sal Destefano (88:50)

Now I want to encourage you, this is a very fixable issue.

Justin Andrews (88:53)

Yes, yes.

Sal Destefano (88:54)

Very, very. It becomes chronic in people because they do this thing where they make it feel better and then they go back and they push a little bit and then it hurts again and then it's on and off, on and off, on and off, on and off. And eventually people are like, I don't want to work out anymore.

Justin Andrews (89:06)

Plus you're still going to progress with strength and establishment, energetic goals. And so don't be discouraged by that while you're addressing this. It's just, you know, this is what we need to address and really sharpen our mechanics.

Adam Schafer (89:16)

And this is why running classes, any sort of like high intensity type stuff is the, the enemy here. Because it's like to Sal's point, as soon as you get going and you increase intensity and you do a lot of stuff, you're going to go to the default pattern. We really need to slow down the training and exercise. Really put a lot of work in the correct corrective. So again, that's why the foundation is the corrective work. That is your. You don't miss that. You do that all the time. And then when you sprinkle in strength training, it looks like a 15 protocol. And then avoid this. Otherwise every time you go to these long runs or intense type classes or lots of like fast type movements, you're going to go to the default pattern.

Sal Destefano (89:55)

You're going to slow everything just automatically. As soon as fatigue kicks in or, or lots of intensity and struggle kicks in, your body's better at the default pattern. It'll just go right to it. And then that's what. Cause so you know, you want to give yourself a good. Probably three months at least of training this way before you start to slowly scale up to see how you feel.

Shayla (Caller) (90:16)

Okay. Will that take. Will the math 15 take me through that? Three months? Okay.

Sal Destefano (90:20)

About three months long. Yeah.

Adam Schafer (90:21)

And then honestly after scaling up to me, would look like going to symmetry as a whole program. So eventually. So mass 15, symmetry right now with all the corrective work we're talking about. And then as you start to get strong, feel better, and if you want to do more strength training, it would look like map symmetry. The full program is what I would go to. So that would serve you the best.

Shayla (Caller) (90:43)

Perfect.

Adam Schafer (90:43)

Yes.

Sal Destefano (90:44)

Are you in a, are you in a, like a, like a health related field? What are you studying?

Shayla (Caller) (90:49)

I am studying health sciences and then I'm applying to my master's in speech language pathology.

Justin Andrews (90:54)

Cool.

Sal Destefano (90:55)

I had a feeling you were going to be in the health field.

Adam Schafer (90:56)

Awesome.

Sal Destefano (90:58)

Well, good deal. So we'll send you, we're gonna send you symmetry 15. Follow that.

Shayla (Caller) (91:01)

Okay. Thank you so much.

Sal Destefano (91:03)

You got it.

Adam Schafer (91:03)

All right.

Sal Destefano (91:04)

Thank you. Yeah. The whole default, the, the recruitment pattern.

Adam Schafer (91:08)

I knew she was doing other stuff.

Sal Destefano (91:10)

Yeah, good question. The default pattern stuff, it's. It's hard for people to understand, but when you're. I like to use the analogy on a keyboard, right. If you type with two fingers all the time and then you try to learn how to type properly, you're gonna be slower with the proper technique for a while. So in other words, if I'm practicing the proper way and then someone holds a gun to my head and says, go as fast as you can, I'm gonna go back to my old way because I'm better at it. Even though it's not as effective, ultimately, this is what happens. So when you have a default pattern, it's like, basically, it kicks in when you're tired, and it kicks in when you're. When the intensity's high. So that's why this, like, this process has to be very deliberate. You have to be careful with the intensity.

Adam Schafer (91:51)

I'm so glad that you brought up how. How common SI joint dysfunction and sciatica.

Sal Destefano (91:57)

Is, because it was like 30 of my slides.

Adam Schafer (91:59)

So many, in fact. This is. We talk about the. The challenges as trainers that we had. One of the challenges I always had as a trainer, especially as a young trainer, was when I got a client who'd be like, oh, I can't do that because I have sciatica. Yeah, I have sciatic issues. And it's like, you know, we can fix that. Right? It's like, you know, that's not like, you're not, like, plagued with this.

Sal Destefano (92:17)

So fixable.

Adam Schafer (92:18)

It's so fixable, and it's so common, and. But people continued, and the reason why they don't believe it is because they do something, they feel a little bit better. They go through their physical therapy to the point you're making, then they go right back to their old, and it comes back, and then they're like, so.

Sal Destefano (92:31)

They'Ve had it for years.

Adam Schafer (92:32)

So it's like the. I got bad knees, I got bad hips, I got bad shoulders. I have sciatica. It's like, no, we can fix these things. Exactly. We can fix all these things and. And understand. But you. What you've done in the past is not fixing it. And so we need to change some of those behaviors. We need to change some of those patterns, and we can solve this.

Sal Destefano (92:52)

All of the issues that I would encounter with clients, the common ones, shoulder pain, back pain, knee pain, sciatic pain, SI joint pain.

Adam Schafer (92:59)

All fixable.

Sal Destefano (93:00)

The. The sciatica and SI joint pain was the most guaranteed, most direct. It was the most like, oh, cool. You got that.

Justin Andrews (93:06)

I know what to do.

Sal Destefano (93:06)

Just. Yeah, give me a couple months, it'll be gone.

Doug (93:08)

Our next caller is Kyle from British Columbia.

Sal Destefano (93:11)

Hey, what's up, Kyle?

Kyle (Caller) (93:13)

Hey, guys. What a trip this is to see you guys and actually be talking to you, just listening to you guys this morning. This is great.

Sal Destefano (93:20)

How can we help you, man?

Kyle (Caller) (93:22)

All right, well, before I begin, I just want to thank you again for this opportunity, and I just want to thank you personally for saving podcasts. Don't get me wrong, I love health science and studies and all that, but you guys are rare in the case where you make it relatable. And honestly, I feel that's the best way to help people. So just want to get that.

Sal Destefano (93:40)

Thank you.

Adam Schafer (93:42)

Yeah.

Kyle (Caller) (93:42)

Awesome. Now, regarding my question, I have it written out here just so I don't ramble. I tend to do that, that. So I'll try to stay on point here, but I'll summarize my question and just kind of fill you in on my backstory just so you have my current situation, just for context and all that. Okay. So, simply put, it's my 35th birthday this week, and as always, I'm looking to upgrade my life and health in any way I can each year. And I've learned that without health, life basically sucks. So the more you can improve that, especially the older I get, the better. So I feel like I've kind of reached training midlife crisis in a way to put it. I'm looking for some enlightenment on how to continue here and just move on to a new chapter into my fitness. Trying to kind of overcome a plateau and just try to adapt a new way of training. I also have one semi unique lifestyle factor that I'm trying to learn, how to turn that challenge into an annual benefit here. So in terms of my backstory here, you can feel free to tell me to shut up at any point, but I'll just try to fill you in here. All right. So I began my life in a state of poor health and obesity, unfortunately. And that was about the age of 10 or 11. And at that point, I remember. I still remember to this day, I was looking at the scale, and it reached 200 pounds. And I was like, man, once I. I reach 200 pounds, I got to do something. And then it kind of continued, and I reached 210 pounds. Then I was like, okay, that in combination with, of course, being a kid, you have that motivation of the bullies and all that stuff, right? So it was time to make a change. And being a young kid, I honestly had no education, like, no knowledge of what to do. So I remember starting my workouts. I do just like 10 body weight, squats, spots. At night, I'd be like, tired, like, okay, that's my start. That's. That's the go for it. So that was that. And in terms of diet, I really had no idea. So after seeing zero progress, after a bit, I was still motivated to change. So I read one, the first book I found on the subject, which basically just told me to eat real food. And it gave me A basic weight training program. So I started that and that was really hard. Even just changing food. Going from Oreos to an apple took me like two weeks. I just spat out the apple. I couldn't. It just didn't taste like it wasn't sweet enough. Right. So I was going through that transformation and about two years of following that, I. Yeah, two years of following that, I continued to lose weight. I ended up losing about 50 pounds. I, I reached down to about 160, 170. And I basically maintained that until my early 30s and I still didn't really know what I was doing. And looking back on all this, it really just like I didn't really notice the transformations like physically as they developed. I was more focused on the mental aspects. I realized that like my mental health got so much better and that's kind of why I continued. And so I just kept doing that. But I was strictly kind of more cardio based until my early 30s really. And it came to another point where my wife was pointing out, she's like, Kyle, you work out every day, but you look so weak. You know, like you're weak, you're skinnier than the other dudes. And I was like, oh man, that's. That's kind of something. And I was like, yeah, I guess so. And, and that's when I started getting into the weight training. So I found you guys and I started listening. I ended up getting map split and I started adapting that I gave into. I was like, okay, I'm just going to go to the gym. I'm going to start lifting weights finally. And within a year of doing that, I honestly, I gained like 10 pounds, which I imagine is muscle. Like I didn't gain fat. I was mostly muscle there. And I really started to notice for the first time a difference. Difference. And that was just like basic weight training, like the split program there. And I, I just absolutely love that, that method of training. Since then, my wife has noticed a difference as well. And now she started weight training as well, which is great. I got her maps 15 for Christmas and it's kind of like getting her there. We just got the kids at home now, so that really works well. So I actually stopped going to the gym. We work out at home now. I invest in some weights here. And at this point, yeah, like, I'm just really looking for like, I've done the split style and I feel like I'm still getting stronger, but at the same time I, I haven't really been seeing much progress lately. I'm I'm starting to kind of feel like I'm peaking, like I'm adding a little bit of weight here and there. But I hear you guys talking about, like changing things up, up throughout the year or adding different kind of dynamic movements or ways to go about it. I'm just curious from someone who, like, given my training background so far and just following the split style, if there's anything I could be doing to really help. I want to get a little bit stronger still and kind of just overcome this and move on to a new chapter of strength building. Basically, the.

Adam Schafer (99:10)

The answer is actually really easy. Doing it might be the challenging part and because it's going to be related to nutrition. And so you probably are due for a reverse diet where we start to actually add calories. You have, you've got the newbie gains from lifting weights and you've put on some good muscle and you're probably feeling like you've kind of peaked out a little bit because you're peaked out for the amount of calories and nutrition you're giving the body. And the body will, if you give it more. And continue following maps programs, you can follow any of the ones that you want to. I mean, they're all going to be great and they're. And you're going to respond well to all of them since it's all pretty novel to you, but you probably need to increase calories. Any idea on what your calorie intake is right now? Have you ever tracked before?

Kyle (Caller) (100:01)

To be honest, I haven't tracked too closely. I went through about a month where I tried it and I would, my best guess would be around like 23, but this. I'm glad you brought up nutrition because I honestly feel like that's my biggest downfall at this point. I just started focusing more on protein, but I feel like a reverse diet would be a good way because I, I wanted to ask you guys, I have this issue where it's like, I feel like I'm eating, you know, an appropriate amount, but there's like, like twice a week. I just feel like I have, have this insatiable appetite where it just like bring on more and more. And it's like, that's your, that's your.

Adam Schafer (100:43)

That'S your body telling you it wants more to go, build more because you're doing the right things by lifting. You're doing a good lifting program. You're sending the signal to the body it needs more muscle. Your body's going, we need more nutrients. And so that, that feeling you have is a Natural good feeling. And it's the body telling you we need more material to go build you more muscle.

Sal Destefano (101:03)

Muscle. Kyle, when you do you. Because you talked about working out as a 10 year old and you know, bullying and being overweight, do you, do you have a fear of getting fat or overweight?

Kyle (Caller) (101:16)

To be honest, it's been in my mind, yes. I like for me personally, once I lost the weight, it's just like there's two sides of it really. It's like the one side is once I started to lose the weight and develop my consistent exercise, just mentally at that point in my life, I had a lot of just like depression, anxiety and stuff like that. So that honestly just like disappeared. I felt super optimistic. Like once I started the exercise, I know there's brain benefits and all that. It made a huge change. So I'm, I'm scared of losing that. But at the same time I noticed that people treated me different after, you know, like after I made my transformation. And I just, I fear in a way that if I, because I got that through consistency and all that stuff, I feel like if I backtrack on that in any way or just kind of deviate, I just, I don't know, I just grew up having like, you know, I was, I was treated poorly because of that. So it's definitely in my mind.

Sal Destefano (102:17)

I'll let you know something. Okay. The respect. Sometimes we associate how we look with the change in the way people treat us. But what's deeper than that is you're a doer and a go getter, by the way. That's where you get a lot of the mental health benefits. Yes, there's physiological changes that we can measure. But if I induce physiological changes with medications, you don't get the same benefit. We know this on the data. The data shows us quite clearly where a lot of it comes from is you're a kid, you want to make a change and so you just, you just start working at it and then it starts to work and so you build that muscle of discipline and skill and then the confidence comes from that, exudes from that. And that's what people kind of see and that's what earns the respect. So it had more to do with that. So I just want to let you know that I knew I could feel that there's that underlying fear of, oh, what if I become that? You know, what if I just gain tons of body fat? Type of deal. Your body definitely needs more calories. Calories. So guy your size, I would aim for 200 grams of protein a day. So you're looking at four meals with 50 grams of protein. Whole foods don't cut anything out. Have some carbs in there and that should guide you. And then workout wise, split is a lot of volume and it's amazing that you gained muscle, which tells me that you were a bit depleted going into it. And so you just started to feed yourself. And not maybe burn yourself out, but Maps anabolic, plus an increase in calories and hitting your protein, you'll build another 10 pounds. Yeah, you'll gain another 10 pounds of muscle. Oh, yeah, no problem. No problem. But maps anabolic is less volume. You're not going to be working out six days a week. You'll be lifting three days a week.

Justin Andrews (103:57)

That rest recovery is really where the magic is. And you're going to find that especially if you start replenishing your body with nutrients on top of that, everything is just going to accelerate.

Adam Schafer (104:07)

Are you, are you doing anything else you haven't told us too, as far as exercise? Are you, are you running to do?

Kyle (Caller) (104:12)

No, actually I'm, I'm going for daily walks.

Adam Schafer (104:16)

Yeah, that's all good. I just want to make sure because.

Sal Destefano (104:18)

Yeah, maps anabolic, 50 grams of protein, four meals a day, have other stuff in the meals and your strength's gonna go through the roof.

Justin Andrews (104:26)

Yep.

Sal Destefano (104:26)

And you're gonna gain another 10 pounds of muscle, no problem. Yeah. If you gain 10 pounds of muscle on split, 10 on anabolic, it's pretty crazy.

Adam Schafer (104:35)

Yeah.

Sal Destefano (104:36)

Yeah. Because split is too much volume for, for most people. That's an advanced bodybuilder routine where everything is like, so anabolic, bump your calories, 200 grams of protein a day. If you hit that every single day with whole natural foods, you have to chase it. I'll tell you that much. Because it's not easy. 200 grams of protein doesn't happen on accident. So you have to really go for it and your strength can explode. Your squat, your deadlift, your bench, your overhead press, your rows, then you fall.

Justin Andrews (105:05)

That up with power, lift is going.

Sal Destefano (105:06)

To go through the roof.

Adam Schafer (105:07)

Definitely don't allow yourself to be hungry. Right when you feel that hunger signal kick up, just go eat a full meal. That's, that's 40 grams of protein. That like, if you just. That's a simple way to handle this is like if you're not good on tracking or you don't like tracking. It's like you're hungry. Go eat. And go eat a meal that has 40, 50 grams of protein in it. And, and just listen to your body.

Sal Destefano (105:26)

But you may, you may actually feel like you're overeating.

Adam Schafer (105:29)

Yeah, it'll take.

Sal Destefano (105:30)

Because you're so used to undereating eating. So that's why I'm saying 50 grams of protein four times a day with food. And so what you wanna do is this, you don't have to track and weigh everything, but you getget a good idea of what that looks like. Okay, that's eight ounces of meat. Okay, now I know what it looks like. That's what I'm aiming for. Whether it's chicken, steak, fish. That's what it looks like. You know, 50 grams of protein for eggs, what is that? That's seven eggs, eight eggs or something like that, nine eggs. So just get an idea of what that looks like. Like, and then eat, eat that four times a day. Follow maps Anabolic. If you're getting stronger, you're moving in the right direction and your wife's going to trip out, she's like, what's going on? Yeah, right on over the whole thing for sure.

Adam Schafer (106:09)

And all the, the mental and the other positive, you're going to see all kinds of more benefits.

Sal Destefano (106:13)

Yeah, more, yeah.

Adam Schafer (106:14)

Energy will go up, strength will go up, libido will go up, you'll probably sleep better, you'll see all kinds of other positive benefits. So more to come, buddy.

Kyle (Caller) (106:22)

Excellent. That's really exciting to hear. And yeah, it sounds like it's kind of solving my issues there in the back of my. So I really appreciate that guys.

Sal Destefano (106:30)

Yeah. Can we have you back on in a few months? I want to see what happens in three months.

Adam Schafer (106:33)

Yeah.

Kyle (Caller) (106:34)

Oh boy. Now I'm even more excited. I got a path here and some follow up. I dig that. Yeah, for sure. I'd love to. I'm going to anabolic the heck out of this next couple months here and yeah, I'll be pounding those eggs.

Sal Destefano (106:48)

Love it. Track the weights because I can't wait to see the strength gains. So we'll send that to you.

Adam Schafer (106:52)

I'm excited.

Sal Destefano (106:53)

Phase one in particular you're going to love.

Kyle (Caller) (106:55)

Right on. Guys, may I just bug you on one more quick question? Okay, so I have one kind of unique thing I'm trying to as I'm thinking ahead in life, just like in training and stuff. And my wife and I were in a really good routine now, but there's one mix up that kind of makes it a bit challenging throughout the year is every year we go, we visit our family out in Japan for about two months and I have all my weights out here. I've got nothing out there. I've collected a kettlebell last time I was there. But, like, in. In terms of the year, would you use that as an advantage to, like, is there need to train if you have minimal, like, just.

Sal Destefano (107:34)

Okay, I'll say so. Map suspension. That's a program that you use, a suspension trainer, and you can pack that in your suitcase, and that's your workout for the two months are over there.

Adam Schafer (107:43)

I want you. I want you to know, though, Kyle, you do a good job of reverse dieting and hitting Anabolic consistently those two weeks.

Sal Destefano (107:51)

No, it's two months or.

Adam Schafer (107:52)

Oh, it's two months you're out there. Yeah. Okay, so two months you're out there. So you'll. Map suspension will be perfect.

Justin Andrews (107:57)

Preserve everything.

Sal Destefano (107:58)

Everything you've built. Yeah. So we'll send you maps anabolic, and I'll send you a code for map suspension if you want to get that now ahead of time. And that. That program is easy. It's just. It literally all you need is a suspension trainer, fits in your suitcase, and then super convenient. As long as you have a doorway or a tree or something, you're good.

Kyle (Caller) (108:14)

Excellent. Well, I'll definitely find one of those.

Sal Destefano (108:16)

Yeah.

Kyle (Caller) (108:17)

Great.

Adam Schafer (108:17)

Yeah, yeah, we got you.

Kyle (Caller) (108:19)

Awesome. I'm. I'm. Oh, this is so exciting. Yeah, I'm gonna. Yeah, I'll see if my wife wants to join me too.

Sal Destefano (108:24)

Oh, yeah, it'll be great for both.

Adam Schafer (108:26)

Yeah, it'd be great for both of you.

Sal Destefano (108:26)

Yeah. We'll talk to you in a few months.

Kyle (Caller) (108:28)

Right on. Well, thanks again, guys. Really appreciate it. Love the podcast. And yeah, Doug, you do an awesome job too. I know you're in there somewhere, so. Yeah, all the best to you guys.

Sal Destefano (108:39)

Japanese, too, by the way. Yeah, yeah.

Kyle (Caller) (108:41)

Oh, excellent. Right on, guys.

Sal Destefano (108:44)

All right, take it easy. Yeah.

Kyle (Caller) (108:46)

Thank you so much.

Sal Destefano (108:47)

Thanks.

Adam Schafer (108:48)

It was two months. I thought he said two weeks. Oh, okay. I was gonna say.

Sal Destefano (108:53)

But dude, so would tell. Okay. So I knew right away, just for people listening.

Justin Andrews (108:57)

Oh, yeah.

Sal Destefano (108:58)

If you never strength train and you gain 10 pounds of muscle and the first program you do is split. Split's a great program, but it's too much volume for most people, especially as a beginner and somebody who's less, he gained that because he strength trained and finally fed himself a little bit and stopped doing so much cardio.

Adam Schafer (109:14)

Yeah.

Sal Destefano (109:15)

You know, but Maps Anabolic, if he gained 10 on split, he would have gained 15 to 18 on right on maps.

Justin Andrews (109:20)

On a ball, there's so much more potential for him.

Adam Schafer (109:22)

He's gonna Gain every bit of that. I mean if he can eat that. The hardest part. So like the answer, like I said, was easy. The hard part will be the, the mental block of like, you know.

Justin Andrews (109:30)

Yeah, for sure.

Adam Schafer (109:32)

But he, yeah, he has the other thing too.

Sal Destefano (109:34)

Is just so crazy how your, your childhood just, it just, man, it just.

Justin Andrews (109:38)

Forms you and shapes navigates you.

Sal Destefano (109:39)

You deal with it for the rest of your life, you know, so. But, but I'm glad he called us.

Doug (109:43)

Our next caller is Chris from South Carolina.

Sal Destefano (109:46)

What's up Chris? What up Chris?

Justin Andrews (109:47)

Chris?

Chris (Caller) (109:47)

Hey, how are you guys? Adam, Justin, Sal and Doug.

Adam Schafer (109:51)

Long time.

Chris (Caller) (109:51)

I've been watching since probably 2016 or so.

Adam Schafer (109:54)

Wow.

Justin Andrews (109:54)

Hey.

Sal Destefano (109:55)

Wow, dude.

Adam Schafer (109:55)

You're like, you're like family then.

Sal Destefano (109:57)

Yeah, man. How can I help you?

Chris (Caller) (109:58)

One of the originals, I'd like to say. Yeah, all right, I'm just gonna jump right into it. I'm not a huge talker so I'm just gonna read it right off here. Listen to the show. For years I've bought many of your guys programs. I've jumped in and out of them. I'm really struggling. I've yo yo dieted my entire life. Life gain and lost weight. My heaviest before I enlisted in the military was 305 pounds. And then I've gotten all the way down to 182 pounds. I've lived in between that for the past 15 years. My biggest struggle right now is staying compliant with military height and weight standards. They're very stringent when it comes to a number versus a height weight. It's currently up for review though, so they're going away from right now. We do a neck to waist circumference value in the Marines, but the whole Department of defense or Department of war is going to a height to waist ratio which will lend a little bit better to me. I'm 6 foot 36 years old. I'm pretty run down. Military's not been kind separated my shoulders. I've had compartment syndrome. I have severe osteo osteoarthritis in both knees. Then IED explosion list goes on and on. Most recently I've dealt with a Morton neuroma in my foot and that plus the arthritis has really slowed me down. I understand this is like very broad. We do two different PT tests a year here. One is more endurance based pull ups plank and a three mile run. The other one's more quick, quick tick, quick twitch type stuff. More up Justin's alley. I'm open to any suggestions you guys have. I just want to get Programming because like I said bought tons of your guys stuff but it's always like it's either weightlifting or endurance and I've not ever learned the healthy cycle of both of us them. I really want to be happy and healthy sitting right at £250 at six foot right now. Definitely not in a good shape that I've been in in my life. I've hired coaches before. I've went with the, the dumb ones online. Crush it, kill it, cut me down to 1200 calories and that's what I've been at. One thing to maintain those height and weight standards standards. I have crash dieted and fasted. Know you guys are hate me for it, don't fast for fat loss. Doesn't work in the long run. But you know I've, I've powered through my. I've done probably two, three weeks where I wouldn't eat just to be within standards. So really just throwing it out to you guys. I know that's like way all over the place but.

Sal Destefano (112:55)

Exactly, yeah I, I know exactly what, what to do with someone like you. But first off, thanks for your service.

Chris (Caller) (113:01)

Thanks for support. You know it's what I do.

Sal Destefano (113:04)

Listen, your, your discipline is your strength but it's also your weakness because you have the ability to turn it on or turn it off. And so this tends, tends to do be what you do, right. You're like okay, I got to make it happen and to hell with the pain, to hell with the hunger and I'm just going to make it happen. That button, we need to stop hitting it though. It's not working for anymore. It's caused injury and you're probably tired. It sounds like you're tired of it. You're tired of that on off type of deal.

Chris (Caller) (113:31)

It would be real nice like even, even to join. Like I told you before I was £300, I did the, the machinist diet. Can of tuna, an apple a day to lose £60 in a month. You know I was all about it. I'm still all about it.

Sal Destefano (113:44)

You know it's like listen, listen, listen dude, you can do it and you. And I'm sure you do, you're probably very coachable. You just need the right coach. You need the right coach like you're so.

Chris (Caller) (113:56)

That would be the hope you're so.

Sal Destefano (113:58)

Coachable that I could be a crappy coach and they'll do what I say and you'll just follow. Yeah.

Chris (Caller) (114:03)

Which is what I did.

Sal Destefano (114:04)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You need a good coach. You need somebody who knows what they're doing. Who's going to get you out of this cycle, prevent the injury, get you healthy, get you fit, and get you in a place where you don't do the cycling up and down anymore. That's what you need. I could give you the advice right now, but it's a hard. This is a hard cycle to break. It's because you've been living here for a long time. I mean, how long have you been doing this up and down?

Chris (Caller) (114:29)

I'm going on 15 years this year.

Sal Destefano (114:31)

This is like a part of who you are.

Chris (Caller) (114:33)

So pretty much, yeah, you need the.

Sal Destefano (114:35)

Right coach, dude, because I could give you the advice right now, but this, this mentality that you have is what we need to work on small steps. It's going to take time, it's going to take months of work, and you're going to want to go harder. So what's going to happen? Well, you know, if I give you advice, coach you a little bit bit, like, can I turn it up? I'm like, no, dude. And you're going to need me in your ear, kind of helping you through the process. And then at some point you'll see that it feels good and it's working. Then you'll start to trust the process and then you'll develop a different behavior, different behaviors around a different relationship and relationship, different associations with all that stuff. If we don't. If you don't have the right coach, you're gonna, you're gonna be stuck here for a while. It's gonna be really hard.

Chris (Caller) (115:11)

I mean, I've heard it. I've heard it from you guys time and time again. It's like, I've always done it. Not to, not with any help or anything, just with me, like, I'm waiting for that. Like, oh, this is actually working. And I've never had that feeling.

Sal Destefano (115:26)

Yeah, no, I get it, dude. And what's hard, you can though.

Justin Andrews (115:29)

You can totally.

Sal Destefano (115:30)

And what's hard with someone like you? I'll just tell you the challenge because I've worked with people like you before. The challenge is when we're doing things right. I'm fighting you to not do too much. Yeah, that's the constant conversation is, you're like, that's not enough. And I'll be like, dude, chill. This is funny. We're moving the right direction. And a lot of this, a lot of this is diet. And the other side of it is the over application of intensity. But the hard part's probably the diet that's going to Be the harder part. That's typically the harder part. The intensity part we can work with. And there's going to be times you have to turn it up anyway because you are in the military and that's totally fine. But the idea is to keep your joints healthy. Healthy, having you feel good, be generally fit so that you can turn it up when you need to. Not hurt yourself or drive yourself into the ground, diet wise is gonna be difficult. Well, it's not going to be this extreme.

Adam Schafer (116:18)

Yeah, well, the reason why the diet part's hard is because we want you like in a Goldilocks zone where there's not a lot of movement on the scale. And that mentally messes with people like yourself who have the ability to like lose 30 pounds in 30 days, because you've been able to do that before. And so when you're coaching someone like you and you're like, listen, you're right where I want you, calorie wise. You're right where I'm at, what we're doing. And you're going like, it's not moving.

Sal Destefano (116:40)

We're not moving.

Adam Schafer (116:40)

And then that's the part we'll wrestle with, going through this process. And, and then you just got to kind of surrender. You got to surrender that to somebody you trust to kind of guide you through that process. And then the light bulb goes off. Because then at one point you'll see it, you'll feel it, and you'll go like, this is the easiest effort I've ever put towards this. This, and I'm at where and that. And then you. Then you'll have this unlock. But it's the, the coaching to get there and the hand holding to get there of like, just trust the process. I got you. I got you. Let me lead you. Let me lead you. And then all of a sudden the switch hits and you're like, oh, wow, this is a trip that I feel like I'm trying a quarter of what I've tried in the past, yet I feel better, I'm stronger, I'm fitter, all the things. And then that becomes sustainable.

Sal Destefano (117:25)

The guy sustainable. The advice you'll get is you've listened to the show for a long time, so you're not going to hear anything, anything that's going to blow your mind. You're like, well, yeah, I know I should do that. I know I should hit my protein. Okay, yes, I need a reverse diet. I need to strength train. I need to work on mobility. I need to not overdo it. I need to focus on you're. Going to hear all the stuff that you've heard us say on the podcast. The. The. The key, though, the kicker is the. The guidance, the coaching throughout the process.

Justin Andrews (117:51)

So offload it.

Sal Destefano (117:52)

That's it.

Justin Andrews (117:52)

Yeah, we need to offload this. Somebody trustworthy that, you know, has.

Sal Destefano (117:57)

If you're open to working with a coach, if that's feasible for you, I'll have our guy call you and set you up. But the advice you're going to get isn't going to be, like, revolutionary, like, oh, my God, I never heard before. You'll be like, okay, that makes sense. And then you're going to check in with them constantly and keep open communication. Like, hey, man, I feel like I got to do more, or I feel like I'm eating too much, or it's not moving fast enough. And then just keep working with the coach. And it'll take. It'll take a few months, but in a few months, you'll be sold. In a few months, you'll be like, okay, this works.

Chris (Caller) (118:29)

I. I'm like, I'm 100 open to it. Like I said, I'm 36 years old, and, like, that's not old, but I feel old.

Sal Destefano (118:36)

Yeah, well, you, bro, you're 36 with a lot of, you know, a lot of hardcore mileage, a lot of crazy.

Justin Andrews (118:42)

Stuff to your body.

Sal Destefano (118:43)

Yeah, dude.

Chris (Caller) (118:44)

Yeah.

Sal Destefano (118:44)

Yeah. So we get.

Adam Schafer (118:46)

We'll fix it, though, Chris. We'll fix it.

Chris (Caller) (118:47)

Yeah, I'm 100 open to it. And as long as it's one of, like, your dudes. Because, like, I'm tired of the crush and kill. Like, you see everything on Instagram. Like, I want to work with somebody.

Adam Schafer (118:58)

That you guys not only are that. Is that the worst. That's the worst for a guy like you, because you're the type of guy that will go do it, you're the guy that go do it. That's what makes it really bad. Like, those guys are already bad, but most people don't do it. Like, you're the guy who's like, okay, I got this.

Sal Destefano (119:11)

You're the guy that probably gets a little excited when they're like, you're working out twice a day. You're going to need 1200 calories. All right, let's go. Horrible, bro. Dude. Yeah. You don't need David. God. So the worst guys. Yeah, yeah. We got good people. We got good people. They know exactly how to coach people the right way. And very solvable. Very, very solvable, what you're going through.

Adam Schafer (119:31)

We'll have them call you Chris. And then we'll be checking in with you, and then I'd love to have you back on the show after you've gone through it so you can talk about it.

Chris (Caller) (119:37)

Awesome. I look forward to it, guys. I appreciate everything, and it's been, like, great, great watching, like, growing up with you guys. Feel like. Feel like one of the five of y'.

Sal Destefano (119:45)

All.

Chris (Caller) (119:46)

You got the four, and I'm the fifth guy there. You know, watching your guys's transformation.

Sal Destefano (119:51)

Dude, if you ever come to California, tell your coach, and he'll have you come in and hang out studio.

Adam Schafer (119:55)

We appreciate it.

Chris (Caller) (119:56)

I will.

Adam Schafer (119:56)

You're part of the family.

Chris (Caller) (119:57)

Stop picking on. Stop picking on Justin so much, huh?

Adam Schafer (120:00)

Adam, it's good.

Justin Andrews (120:02)

Take it, bro.

Adam Schafer (120:02)

Good. It's good for him.

Justin Andrews (120:06)

Gives me ammo.

Sal Destefano (120:07)

If we don't pick on him, he's get. He gets angry.

Justin Andrews (120:08)

Destroy them with later. Don't worry.

Sal Destefano (120:12)

Thanks, man.

Adam Schafer (120:12)

All right, Chris.

Chris (Caller) (120:13)

Have a good one.

Sal Destefano (120:14)

See you, brother. Yeah, dude, that. That's the. It's literally. It literally is, like, all or nothing. Yeah. And I've trained people like that in. The hardest part is to pull it back, dude.

Adam Schafer (120:24)

I know.

Sal Destefano (120:25)

It's like, even in the workout, I would have clients like this. In the workout I'm fighting.

Justin Andrews (120:29)

He'll run through a wall.

Sal Destefano (120:30)

In the workout, I would fight with people like this. Like, okay, you're done. What do you mean I can keep going?

Adam Schafer (120:35)

The point that I was making, why this. Why this is so difficult is because for 15 years, he knows that he can turn it on and drop 40.

Sal Destefano (120:42)

Pounds, like, overnight to achieve the objective.

Adam Schafer (120:44)

Yeah. He'll just not eat. He'll have tuna and apples. Like, he knows he's. He's done all the crazy.

Sal Destefano (120:49)

Yeah.

Adam Schafer (120:49)

And so when you get a guy like that and you're like, hey, this is what you want to do? And he's. He's like, three weeks in, he's like, the scale hasn't moved.

Sal Destefano (120:55)

Yeah.

Adam Schafer (120:55)

I don't feel I know how to solve this. Yeah. Yeah. And there's a part of it was just like, well, this isn't better than what I've done. I've. You know I'm saying. And so you're constantly.

Sal Destefano (121:02)

Feels it now injuries. I'm tired. I feel old and beat up.

Adam Schafer (121:05)

He's in the right place.

Sal Destefano (121:06)

He's all right.

Adam Schafer (121:06)

He's in the right place now of like. Like, okay, surrender. Let the coach take you. We'll take good care of him.

Sal Destefano (121:11)

That's right. Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. Mind Pump Media. We'll see you there.

Doug (121:15)

Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB super bundle@mindpumpmedia.com the RGB Super Bundle includes Maps, Anabolic Maps, Performance and Maps Aesthetic Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, the RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee and you can get it now. Plus other valuable free resources@mindpumpmedia.com if you enjoy this show, please share Share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review on itunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is Mind Pump.

Karen (Caller) (122:23)

Let's talk groceries. Specifically your groceries.

Sal Destefano (122:26)

With Instacart, you want your groceries just.

Shayla (Caller) (122:28)

The way you like them, right?

Sal Destefano (122:30)

Well, the Instacart app lets you do just that. They have a new preference picker that lets you pick how ripe or unripe you want. Your banana. Shoppers can see your preferences upfront, helping guide their choices. Instacart get groceries just how you like.