2809 : Is Cardio Ideal For Fat Loss?

Summary

Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth

Episode 2809: Is Cardio Ideal For Fat Loss?

Date: March 7, 2026
Hosts: Sal Di Stefano, Adam Schafer, Justin Andrews, Doug Egge

---

Brief Overview

In this episode, the Mind Pump team delivers a deep dive into the perennial fitness question: Is cardio truly the best method for fat loss? Drawing from decades of experience and research, the hosts bust common myths, explain how the body adapts to various training modalities, and coach several live callers on real challenges—ranging from chronic pain and overtraining to recovery from disordered eating. Along the way, the episode is rich in personal anecdotes, science-backed explanations, and the hosts’ signature direct, supportive style.

---

Main Theme

Cardio vs. Strength Training for Fat Loss:
The hosts debunk the widespread belief that cardio is the superior tool for fat loss. They emphasize that while cardio does burn calories, it leads to decreased long-term efficiency, potential muscle loss, and can even backfire when overused, especially when combined with severe calorie deficits. In contrast, strength training preserves and builds muscle, supports a healthy metabolism, and yields better real-fat-loss outcomes.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Science & Adaptation of Cardio (03:30 – 08:30)

• Initial Cardio Benefits: Cardio can boost fat loss significantly, but only for the first 2–3 weeks.
• Adaptation Curve: The body quickly adapts and becomes more efficient, curbing calorie expenditure dramatically.
• Muscle Loss Risk: In a calorie deficit with high cardio, up to 40% of weight lost can be muscle, not fat. This leads to a slower metabolism and greater rebound risks.
  • Sal: “It’s like 40% of your body weight loss is muscle, which sucks. You lost ten pounds, four of it was muscle. Now you’re left with a...slower metabolism.” (05:01)
  • Doug: “We’re adaptation machines...it kind of makes sense why at a certain point you hit that hard plateau.” (05:36)
• Competitive Prep Misconceptions: Many coaches mistakenly prescribe 12-week cardio protocols for stage athletes, leading to problematic rebounds and unsustainable maintenance.

---

2. Cardio vs. Strength Training: Practical Applications (07:00 – 16:15)

• Strength Training for Fat Loss: Studies show it’s more effective for preserving (or building) muscle in a deficit, sparing metabolism for the long-term.
  • Sal: “For fat loss, strength training wins. Cardio induces more muscle loss, almost worse than pure calorie deficit.” (07:17)
  • Adam: “Introduce cardio after my client has achieved their aesthetic goal...then it would be to sharpen up or because they want more endurance.” (08:14)
• Key Strategy: Use cardio to boost health, endurance, or performance, NOT as the primary fat loss tool.

---

3. Adaptation Examples & Metabolic Reality (09:52 – 14:17)

• Extreme Examples:
  • Ironman athletes and Michael Phelps exemplify the body’s capacity to adapt metabolic rates wildly in response to activity and nutrition.
  • Sal: “My activity level is 1/100th of his. ...I eat probably 500 more calories a day than he does. ...That’s a lot of activity. He should be burning, if you did the math, insane amounts of calories, but his body learned...to be efficient.” (10:40)
• Takeaway: “The best way to view exercise is: What kind of physical adaptation does this exercise induce? That’s when I’ll use the exercise.” (12:42)

---

4. Cardio’s Role in Real-World Training (15:21 – 19:45)

• Fat Loss as a “Math Problem”:
  • The logic “calories in vs. calories out” is incomplete; adaptation and hormonal factors matter deeply.
• Common Mistakes:
  • Many gym regulars plateau by focusing only on cardio and restrictive diets, misled by machine calorie counts and acute calorie burn.
  • Sal: “I would see regulars...hop on the StairMaster, be there all the time, and they looked no different. ...They’d look exactly the same.” (19:45)
• Psychological Realities:
  • Trainers, clients, and competitive athletes often underestimate the adaptation and overestimate the efficacy of chronic cardio.
  • Overreliance on cardio begets a “work more/eat less” cycle that’s unsustainable and demotivating.

---

5. Burst Cardio & HIIT Context (23:27 – 29:28)

• Dorian Yates & HIIT Cardio:
  • Dorian’s one-minute protocol (three 20-second all-out sprints with rest) compared favorably in studies to 45 minutes of steady-state cardio for some markers.
  • Sal: “It’s got huge VO2 max benefits, health benefits, stamina benefits. Here’s the problem...most everyday people...it’s inappropriate for them.” (24:43)
  • Adam: “For fit, healthy people, it could be interesting. We’re all huge fans of steps and LISS [low intensity steady state] for most clients.” (27:17)
• Host Preference:
  • The benefits of longer, lower-intensity walks go beyond fat loss (e.g., stress relief, digestion, enjoyability).

---

6. Ultra-Low Calorie Drugs & Muscle Loss (35:01 – 42:41)

• GLP-1, -2, and -3 drugs:
  • The team discusses drugs like semaglutide, tirzepatide, and the new retatrutide, which in trials led to massive, sometimes “excessive,” weight loss. Concerns remain about the muscle-to-fat loss ratio.
  • Sal: “A significant percentage dropped out...because of excessive weight loss. ...It caused such a crazy amount of weight loss.” (37:23)
  • Adam: “You don’t drop out because you’re losing too much fat. You drop out [when] you recognize you’re losing a lot of muscle.” (41:34)
• Practical Caution:
  • These drugs may suppress appetite and make competition prep easier, but have major risks for non-obese or athletic lean individuals.

---

Notable Quotes & Highlights

• On Cardio-Driven Plateaus:
  Sal: (16:13) “People look at fat loss as just the math problem...that’s true, but it’s not explaining...how the human metabolism works.”
• On Fat Loss Strategies:
  Adam: (08:14) “Introduce cardio after my client has achieved their aesthetic goal. ...It’s not something I would use as a tool just to get the body fat off.”
• On Exercise Adaptation:
  Sal: (12:42) “The best way to view exercise is: What kind of physical adaptation does this exercise induce?”
• On Psychological Control:
  Sal to caller, Nicole: (94:46) “Let me communicate something...this control that you’re putting around all these things, it’s actually the reverse. It is controlling you.”
• On Real Coaching:
  Adam: (94:03) “It’s real easy for us ...to sit on our podcast chairs and tell you that. It’s another thing to implement...that’s where the coach comes in.”

---

Important Segment Timestamps

• Is Cardio a Waste of Time for Fat Loss? (03:30 – 08:30)
• Strength Training vs. Cardio – Which Is Best? (07:17 – 15:00)
• The Problem with Chronic Cardio (19:45 – 22:56)
• Adaptive Metabolism: Elite Athletes & Fat Loss (09:52 – 11:49)
• Dorian Yates, HIIT, and Real-World Recovery (23:27 – 29:28)
• Pharmaceutical Weight Loss: Promise & Pitfalls (35:01 – 42:41)

---

Live Caller Highlights

1. Megan (Chronic Pain & Systemic Inflammation)

(61:05 – 82:28)

• Chronic TMJ pain, progressing to systemic pain and disability.
• Advised to rule out systemic causes (mold, heavy metals, Lyme, autoimmunity).
• Sal: “Pain is always all in your head, no matter what...but the trauma from chronic pain, especially if it’s a major interruption, can cause pain all over.”
• Emphasis on psychological trauma’s role, gentle corrective movement, and persistent, patient self-care.

2. Nicole (Recovering from Anorexia, Overtraining, Lost Period)

(87:21 – 99:37)

• 25, history of anorexia, compulsione with ultra-high movement (30,000 steps/day), fear of eating and reducing exercise.
• Struggles with giving up control and trusting others/coaches.
• Sal: “You are actually out of control...Being tyrannized by exercise, diet, stress, body image.”
• Recommended: Professional coaching, focus on relinquishing strict self-control, and strength-based performance goals.

3. Alyssa (Life-long Anorexia, Lost Strength, Wanting to Rebuild)

(101:19 – 115:16)

• 46, recurring anorexia since age 10, lost all lifting strength, wants to regain capability for herself and teenage kids.
• Emphasized starting with at-home strength basics, shifting focus to strength/energy, removing weight and appearance metrics.
• Sal: “Try to care for yourself like your daughters would.”
• Offered in-person/virtual support, suspension trainer, and “MAPS Starter” program.

4. Sarah (Ex-pro-athlete, PE teacher, Concerned with VO2 Max)

(116:02 – 120:59)

• Strength trains, averages 15k steps, great energy but feels pressure from fitness trends to “do more cardio.”
• Team validates her current regimen; warns against relapsing into competitive or perfectionistic excess.
• Sal: “You’re not just fine. You’re killing it.”
• Adam: “Three days of full body training...that’s longevity right there.”

---

Concluding Wisdom & Tone

The Mind Pump hosts present the science ruthlessly but compassionately, employing a no-BS, supportive tone. They (with humor and honesty) break down fitness dogma, urging listeners to focus on muscle, health, and sanity—not calorie math or chronic suffering. The most effective “fat loss” exercise is the one that builds/keeps as much muscle as possible while making you stronger, happier, and more functional—for life, not just a season.

---

Memorable Moments

• Sal on chronic gym regulars: “After a year, I’d see the same [people on the StairMaster]...and they looked no different.” (19:45)
• Adam on why people quit extreme weight-loss drugs: “You don’t drop out because you’re losing too much fat. ...You’re getting worried you’re losing a lot of muscle.” (41:34)
• Alyssa’s goal: “I want to show my daughters what it’s like to be a strong woman.”
• Sarah’s status (approval): “You’re not just fine. You’re killing it.” (120:19)

---

Final Takeaways

• For pure fat loss, prioritize strength training and sustainable dietary habits.
• Cardio is best viewed as a tool for health, stamina, or performance—not as your main fat loss driver.
• Be wary of unsustainable, adaptation-prone cardio routines; consider the full adaptation and recovery picture.
• Muscle mass is your best insurance policy for leanness, health, and “metabolic flexibility.”
• For lasting results: Train for adaptation, health, and performance—NOT just calorie burn.
• Navigating problematic mindsets around exercise often requires support, context, and sometimes professional coaching.

---

Follow Mind Pump: @mindpumpmedia
Episode resources and coaching: mindpumppodcast.com

Transcript

[Sal]

Everyone deserves to be connected. T Mobile and US Cellular are joining forces. Our networks are coming together bringing more T Mobile coverage all over the country. Switch to T Mobile and save up to 20% versus Verizon by getting built in benefits they leave out. Check the math@t mobile.com Switch and now T Mobile is available in a US cellular store near you Bigger network. The combination of T Mobile and US Cellular's network footprints will enhance the T Mobile network's coverage savings versus comparable Verizon plans plus the costs of options, benefits, plan features and taxes and fees vary. Savings with three plus lines include third free line free via monthly bill credits Credit stop if you cancel any lines.

[Caller]

Qualifying credit required hi, I'm Chandler G. As a PICU nurse and global health advocate, I've cared for women and children all over the world, from Costa Rica to Egypt to Kenya and beyond. And no matter where I go or how tough the conditions get, I always wear my figs. These scrubs are lightweight, breathable and super soft. Perfect for long shifts in any environment. They've got pockets in all the right places, the fit is flexible and they're durable through every admission, surgery and post op. But it's not just about the scrubs. Another big part of what I love about figs is when they say they're committed to supporting healthcare workers all over the world, they mean it. I recently joined them on an IMPACT trip to India where I worked in triage caring for babies in a mobile clinic. My figs aren't just what I wear, they're part of the impact I want to make. Wherever my work takes me, FIGS helps me show up ready to make a difference while looking and feeling my best. Get 15 off your first order at WearFigs.com with code FIGSRX. That's WearFigs.com code FIGS RX if you

[Sal]

want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind Pump Mind Pump with your hosts Sal Destefano, Adam Schaefer and Justin Andrews, you just found the most downloaded fitness, health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump. In today's episode, callers called in and we coached them live on air. But this was after the intro. Today's intro was 57 minutes long. This is where we talk about fitness and current events studies. It's always a good time. By the way, if you want to be on an episode like this, here's what you do. Submit your question to mplifecaller.com now. This episode is brought to you by some Sponsors. The first one is Caldera Lab. This is skincare that works. It's phenomenal. In fact, one of their products got first place in Men's Health magazine, the Hydrolayer. First place for anti aging. Go check them out. Get 20% off go to calderalab.com mindpump use the code mindpump20 for that 20% off discount. This episode's also brought to you by RO Nutrition. They use liposomal technology to deliver the nutrients where they need to go. So liposomal glutathione, liposomal nad, magnesium, creatine. It's very bioavailable. You get more out of your supplements because of the way it's delivered. Go check them out. Go to rhonutrition.com discount mindpump the code mindpump gets you 20% off everything in the store. We also have a new maps program bundle. It's called the Spring bundle. Maps Symmetry, Maps prime and then we've included the advanced training techniques guide. All of that together over 50% off. It's only 147. Go to mapsmarch.com alright, real quick.

[Doug]

If you love us like we love you, why not show it by rocking one of our shirts, hats, mugs or training gear? Over atmypumpstore.com I'm talking right now. Hit pause, head on over tomy pump store.com. that's it. Enjoy the rest of the show.

[Adam]

Cardio can be great for fat loss for about two to three weeks. After four weeks, absolute waste of time.

[Sal]

What do you think? I I strong. I mean, I strongly agree. I. The body adapts really quickly to energy, energy expenditure in that way.

[Adam]

About three to four weeks.

[Sal]

Yeah, that's what the data shows. Right.

[Adam]

And it takes so 8 to 12, you get benefits of stamina training. So when we look at it for if you want to endurance train and get better like that makes.

[Sal]

That's your form of training.

[Adam]

That makes sense.

[Sal]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Adam]

But most people are using it as a source to reduce body fat. And if that's the main goal, you get great benefits for about two to three weeks. After that it sharply declines and becomes almost a waste of time and can be counterproductive.

[Sal]

Yeah. Well, you know what? You're going to get a lot of people right now, now who are like, well, I lost tons of weight by doing lots of running. Now usually this is in combination with cutting their calories. But what they don't realize, and we've talked about this at least a thousand times, is that form of exercise with a reduction in calories is A recipe for muscle loss.

[Adam]

That's right.

[Sal]

Yeah, it really is. Now, people might ask why. Why does cardio or running plus a calorie deficit, low calorie why does that cause muscle loss? Is it that you're burning the muscle while you're doing all this exercise? No, that's not what's happening. It's actually quite hard to burn muscle in that way. What's happening is the body has. Because cardio does burn a lot of calories. So this is where the, this is

[Adam]

where people start the debate, especially at the beginning.

[Sal]

Yes, but it, I mean, comparison to other forms of exercise, it's the highest calorie burn. But what happens when you're burning lots of calories and you're cutting your calories and the form of exercise that you're doing is not telling your body, we need strength and muscle. The body learns how to reduce its caloric output, needs to be more efficient. And so it pairs muscle down. So it's like 40% of your. Of your body weight loss is muscle, which sucks. You lost ten pounds. Four of it was muscle. And now you're left with a, you know, for lack of a better term, slower metabolism, which makes things a lot people disregard that.

[Doug]

We're adaptation machines where your body's going to adjust to that type of a stimulus, especially cardio, those type of demands. Like we, it like if we're just like depriving ourselves this energy, like the first signal really is to like hold on to that energy and, and not expend it so frivolously. So it's, it's, if you think of that in that lens, it kind of makes sense why at a certain point you kind of hit that hard plateau.

[Adam]

This is how I would tell competitors if they, if you had a good coach or not. It's so common in the space that these competitive coaches put their athletes, their competitors on cardio 12 weeks out from a show.

[Sal]

Yeah, yeah.

[Adam]

And I would tell them it's a terrible strategy. We are far better off manipulating it with calories and just regular activity like movement, walking around until we get to those final couple weeks where we would start to ramp up the cardio just before. And then, and then it's so new, it's a new stimulus to the body that it responds really well for those two to three weeks. Then after that, to your point, it gets, it adapts, it gets, it becomes efficient and then stamina building happens. But part of, part of what's happening when you start to build stamina, endurance and you get Good at it is the body's becoming more efficient at it, which is saying, hey, we don't need all this muscle to do all this running that the body's asking us to do. Let's get rid of some of this muscle. Because it's not efficient to have all this.

[Sal]

By the way, just to be clear, before anybody gets up in arms, it's a form of exercise. Done properly, it's healthy. So we're not saying it's not healthy. We're not saying it's not a good form of exercise. If you want to improve stamina and endurance, we're not saying don't ever do cardio. What we're talking about here is fat

[Adam]

loss, and it's a terrible strategy.

[Sal]

By the way, there are great studies that compare strength training to cardio for weight loss, weight loss, cardio wins. For fat loss, strength training wins. What do I mean by that? Cardio in the weight loss protocol or fat loss protocol induces muscle loss. It does enhance. It actually creates more muscle loss, almost like, or maybe even worse than just a pure calorie deficit. Whereas strength training preserves muscle, and in some cases, if the calorie deficit's not too big and you have high protein, you'll see some muscle building through this process. So for as far as fat loss is concerned, it's really a terrible approach. Now, if you use cardio as a way to improve your health and you want more endurance or more stamina, great, go for it. But if your number one goal is like, I want to lose body fat, you're better off doing other forms of exercise, in particular strength training and then. And then the diet.

[Adam]

This is why I always like to introduce normal person, not just talking about competitors. Introduce cardio after my client has achieved their aesthetic goal.

[Sal]

Yeah.

[Adam]

So if a client came to me and they had a bunch of body fat they wanted to lose, cardio was not a part of the protocol until we got closer to basically where they wanted to be. And then it would be to either one, sharpen up a tiny bit or because they're like, hey, I want more endurance, more stamina. I've now reduced that body fat. I'm now at a place where I feel healthy and balanced. Now I want to improve that. It's great. Now let's bump your calories and. And let's introduce cardio. So now you're more fed and you get to build some stamina and you have the body you want. It's not something that I would use as a tool just to get the Body fat off. It's a terrible strategy to do that because now if I did it that way, by the way too. And let's say you did have success, which is what happens to a lot of some of these competitors that do out two hours of it every single day to get rid of that. And not only that, but now in order to maintain that, that body that they've now achieved, they've got to maintain the two hours of cardio every single day, which is unrealistic and they're not going to do, which is why there's this massive rebound afterwards and they put on because they stop doing that instantly and then there's huge difference in calorie burn. And so this is such a terrible strategy and yet everybody seems to do it even at the competitive level. And it really should. In fact, there's been competitors that we never did cardio.

[Sal]

Yeah.

[Adam]

That we got all the way down to stage presence like body fat percentage and never had to get on the elliptical and sweat or the StairMaster and sweat like crazy. We did it just through managing steps and calorie reduction or through even better building your metabolism up, building a ton of muscle first and then coming down.

[Sal]

It's so funny. So earlier today we had a caller on that had done in the past five Ironman competitions and a bunch of half Ironmans. And for people that aren't familiar, an Ironman competition is insane. It's like a two and a half mile, almost drooling swim. It's a 112 mile bike ride and then you run a marathon. That's the whole competition. So a marathon by itself, what is it, 26 miles? You do that at the end of all the other crazy stuff. So it's just insane. It's lots of, it's crazy endurance training. I've had a few Ironman competitors as clients and if I remember correctly, so these were. One of them was a man. He weighed about 165 pounds. Kind of your typical, you know, what you would consider your ideal Ironman physique. Okay. He was consuming with all the training now you're talking about, you know, tens of miles of running and swimming. This guy was, you know, two to three hours every single day, sometimes more of exercise to prepare for this intense, crazy competition. This guy was eating about 3,500 calories a day to fuel his body. So this is 165 pound man, 3500 calories a day in order to fuel this, this type of training. And his body fat was relatively lean. He was fit he was probably walking around, around 10, 11% body fat. It was doing everything right. We did a little bit of strength training, just kind of support what he was doing. I'm 220 pound guy, so I have a lot more lean body mass, same body fat. My activity level is 1, probably 100th of his. If I strength train, it's three or four days a week, 45 minutes. I don't do any of that other stuff. We're sitting down 90% of the day in the studio and I eat probably 500 more calories a day than he does. Just give you an idea of the difference there. Now, of course there's genetic variance, all that stuff, but that's a lot of activity. He should be burning, if you did the math, insane amounts of calories through that activity. But his body learned, and your body will learn how to become efficient with calories. If you're asking your body to become efficient with calories, simultaneously asking it, telling it we don't need a lot of muscle.

[Adam]

Well, that, that caller we just, that we had was eating 2500 calories to maintain where he was at. And very, very active, high training volume, all the things. Another way to show this example is this, and show you how different you, how much you can manipulate your metabolism is Michael Phelps 10,000 calories. You know, so you, you have this, like, the body is unbelievably efficient. And if you, if you don't give it a lot of calories and you do all this crazy activity, it will learn and it will adapt to that. But you could also get away with feeding it unbelievably when you have somebody like that that's doing that much activity. So how can people be that far off from each other? Well, that's just an example of like how crazy adaptive the metabolism is, is that if you continue to put it in a deficit and you push the body more and more and more and trying to burn your way down, eventually it completely slows down. That's why it's a terrible strategy.

[Sal]

Make it really clear. The best way to view exercise is what kind of physical adaptation does this exercise induce? And that's when I'll use the exercise.

[Doug]

What's it best for? What's that specific exercise best for?

[Sal]

Yes, and then diet you should look at for health fueling and then manipulate your diet for fat loss or muscle gain. Okay, so that's what you do. Now, can you look at exercise through the lens of fat loss? Well, you can, because when you look at your diet and you're eating in a way to lose body fat, which means you're in what's called a calorie deficit. You're eating less calories than you're burning. Well, the form of exercise I should pick if my goal is aesthetic, if my goal is primarily aesthetic, I want to lose body fat. Well, I'm going to try and pick the form of exercise that's going to mitigate or block or stop or reverse whatever negative effects the calorie deficit can cause. Well, what's one of the negative effects of a calorie deficit? Muscle loss. Consistent. Consistent. You go into calorie deficit, you will lose weight. A significant amount of that weight will be muscle loss. It happens across the board. So which form of exercise should I pick? The one that's going to build endurance and stamina. The one that's going to build, let's say, flexibility, stability. The one that's going to build strength. Ah, that's the one right there. The strength building form of exercise, because it directly counters what happens with the calorie deficit. And again, this is why you see in the studies for pure fat loss as a percentage of body weight loss, especially strength training is superior and why cardio should not even be. When clients would come to me and I'd work with them, if they told me specifically, look, and they're not working out at all, I want to get healthier.

[Doug]

Cool.

[Sal]

Okay, check what else you want. Fat loss. Check. This is what we're going to do. We're going to start with strength training. Why? Well, because strength training is going to give you some stamina. If you're sedentary now, it's going to give you some stamina for sure. And endurance, it's going to improve your health, it's going to do those things, and it's going to help with the fat loss. Now, if a client came to me and says, I'd want to go play basketball, I want to swim, I want to run, like I need that kind of stamina. Cardio is going to be a part of their protocol. Strength training will still be a part of the protocol, but cardio now is a part of the protocol. I don't look at it for fat loss.

[Doug]

There's a lot of indirect benefits. You know, the cardio as well is like, you know, especially if we're talking about fat loss, like for the endurance component to kind of revisit, like, some of your workouts and have that bit of stamina to go through, you know, and so it's like, it's not Something that you totally eliminate, per se. But if you're trying to, like, be specific and, like, this is your targeted goal of, you know, fat loss is the most. Objectively. That's. That's what I'm seeking the most. Like, it's not going to be your best tool for the tool.

[Adam]

So we. We get confusion even from this podcast, even though we've been saying this forever. When it's somebody who says, I want both.

[Sal]

Yeah.

[Adam]

Because then that's where they feel like they're lost. Well, I don't just care about aesthetics. I also want endurance. I want that. But the. The answer to that is still focus on the aesthetic first, and then we can go build the stamina. Like, you're far better off doing that than trying to do both of them at the same time. You'd be. It'd be far more. Because to your point, while we're lifting weights and building muscle.

[Sal]

That's right.

[Adam]

You're going to get some stamina.

[Sal]

Sedentary right now. Just strength training is going to give you the stamina, Endurance.

[Adam]

That's right. It's going to give you some of that, and it's going to start to build the metabolism, and it's going to get the body fat off. Like, so it's going to benefit you in that. And then after you're in that position where you're like, okay, I've gotten to a place where I'm happy. Now let's go. After more endurance and more stamina, you're way better off than saying, how do I do both at the same time? Doing both at the same time. You're going to be robbing Peter to pay Paul all the time.

[Sal]

The problem. I think the big problem. I've said this a lot in the past. The big issue is that people look at fat loss as just the math problem. That's the way they view it. Yeah. Calories in versus calories out.

[Adam]

Which.

[Sal]

That's true. Okay. That there's a trueness there.

[Doug]

Deficit.

[Sal]

But it's not explaining how that works. It's not breaking down the nuances and how the human metabolism work and how hormones affect all that stuff. But yes, it is true that that math problem is a part of it. Now. Here's where it gets messed up. All right. If it's calories in versus calories out, well, the form of exercise I'm going to pick is the one that increases the calorie burn the most. So that should be the best one. But that's not the full story, because, yes, running for look here. Running for 45 minutes will burn probably three times as many calories as lift as traditional strengthening will for 45 minutes. It's true, but we're taking out the adaptation piece. Like, what is that exercise induce as far as adaptation is concerned with the body. When you consider that, well, the picture becomes much more clear. It's not just about how many calories you burn. It's about the adaptations. Does that help me burn more calories later on on my own? Does that cause me to have to continue doing the activity in order to burn the calories? Or is my body figuring it out? And does it solve the muscle loss problem? Is it going to fix the muscle loss problem that that's caused by a calorie deficit? When you consider all of those things, the picture gets much, much more clear. But if it's just calories in versus calories out, let's just burn more calories. You're going to end up in a terrible plateau, which is what happens to a lot of people where, you know, they want to lose 30 pounds, so they just burn a lot of calories. On a treadmill, they cut their calories, they get £15 off. Then they hit this really hard plateau. By the way, the 15 pounds includes 7 pounds of muscle. Then they're in this really hard plateau, and then they're left like this. And I know, listen, if you're listening, and this has probably happened to a significant percentage of people listening right now who've tried to lose weight in the past. You hit this plateau, and then you're here. Okay, I guess I got to work out more and I got to eat less, but I'm already working out a lot. My schedule's kind of crazy. I'm doing four days, a week of running or whatever. My calories are already low. I already don't like my diet. I'm already hungry. I guess to lose the next 15 pounds, I got to increase my activity, drop my calories some more. And some of you, because you're really disciplined, hardworking, you go, all right, let's go for it. And you do it. And then you drop another seven pounds, another three pounds of that is muscle. Now you're left with whatever. You know, you're down maybe nine more pounds of body fat to lose. But now you're in this place where, like, this sucks. Yeah, I hate this. I'm doing all this work. I'm eating salads and chicken breasts and, you know, white rice. And I don't. And I feel. I still don't feel like I look the way I should with all this work with and all this, like, restriction with my diet. To hell with it. I want to enjoy my life.

[Adam]

Any logical person ends up saying, I would rather. I'm already not happy with where I'm at. I'm doing all this.

[Sal]

Yeah, this sucks.

[Adam]

I'd rather be eating what I wanted, being lazy, and feeling a little bit fluffier the other way. So it's such an extreme difference. It's, you know, I. I blame our space.

[Sal]

Oh, totally.

[Adam]

I mean, we the, you know, wellness hippie dippy side pitted against the heavy science side that wants to just tout law thermodynamics. I mean, and so you've got. And you have the consumer who's like, that feels like they have to identify with one or the other. Either I totally identify with the. The wellness hippie dippy person, and that's more me, or I'm super Science Guy. It's law thermodynamics. And so it's definitely just calories in, calories out. That's what matters. And it's like, meanwhile, a lot of

[Sal]

people are like, none of this is working. That's right. I, you know, I remember when I first. First was working in gyms. So I started working in gyms 18. Like, you guys, we're all young when we started working in gyms. And when you work in a gym and you love it, you're there all day long. And so if you're there long enough, you know, after six months, you see your regulars, okay? You recognize your regular members. And I remember I'm in the gym. I'm in there all the time. When I was first started, man, I loved it so much. I was there literally 8am to 10pm Six or seven days a week. I'm always in there. And I would see these regulars that would come in. They'd check themselves in. I knew their names. Hi, how you doing? They go get changed, come out, and they'd hop on the StairMaster, and they'd be there for an hour, and they would be there all the time. And after I was there, after a year, I'd see the same. And they looked no different. No different. They'd look exactly. And what I mean by looking the same is they were probably 20 to 25 pounds overweight, sweating their butts off on these machines.

[Doug]

It was such a mystery for me when I was a young trainer.

[Sal]

Yeah, it was crazy.

[Adam]

The other one, which I think is even more, Was even more of a mystery to me, which blew my mind. Were the group X instructors who taught four or five classes a day were drenched in sweat and were just. And they looked out of shape. And you're like, there's no way she would bury me in that class. Like, I know she's working out.

[Sal]

Like.

[Adam]

And you. And you think, God, she must eat terrible.

[Sal]

That's what I thought.

[Adam]

Yeah, she must. She must go right out of here, right to Burger King and just like, hammer food.

[Sal]

So you know what I used to do?

[Adam]

It wasn't that.

[Sal]

So what I used to do is. Because that's what I thought.

[Adam]

I remember when I first trained, I first got my first group. I can start to.

[Sal]

When I was an early trainer, I thought, man, those members must eat the worst diets ever. But then you get to know them, you talk to them. And I talked to one guy and, you know, they knew I was a trainer and then a fitness manager. And so I was talking diet and the first guy's telling me what he's eating. And you know what I'm thinking? Lies, lie, lies. There's no way that's what you're eating.

[Adam]

There's no way underestimating.

[Sal]

And then I talked to another one. Same thing, lies. By the fourth or fifth one, I was like, are they all lying to me? This can't be right. This doesn't make any sense. Meanwhile, I'm a trainer, personal training people, and I'm focused on strength training mainly because at the time, because as a trainer, what a waste of time to have to have a cardio. Have a client do cardio while I'm watching.

[Doug]

I know it's like, get them strong at least.

[Sal]

So strength training. Let me take you out in the gym. And I'm watching my clients get leaner, get more fit. They're eating more than the people on the cardio. And then I started to piece this together. Oh, maybe it's the form of exercise. And same thing with my group ex instructors for them.

[Doug]

But yeah, it's so funny because you look back at that. I was so confused by it. Is this working like.

[Sal]

Because two.

[Doug]

So you're. The points of like the. The whole math problem. It's like, how is it now? So you start looking at things that burn. And so you look at. And then we used to like track it. And you're like, okay, whatever. It's telling me on the cardio equipment, like you could see it. You know, this is actually burning whatever 250 calories or some like, arbitrary number that's probably not even close to being accurate. And then you and then you look it up and then you look at this. I forget whatever book it was, it would start like highlighting each exercise what you actually burned from weight training. And it wasn't even close. And so you start leaning more towards like the cardio to handle the fat, to then build them up in the strength. Once you get the fat off.

[Sal]

I know it was.

[Adam]

This is why the Stairmaster got so popular, because of the calorie burn.

[Sal]

Because on the machine itself it gave you the highest number.

[Adam]

Yeah, yeah. And people get drenched in sweat.

[Sal]

Which by the way, people need to know this. Cardio manufacturers.

[Doug]

Yes.

[Sal]

Would change once they realized that people would pick the cardio that showed the highest calorie burn. Because nobody checks, nobody cares. It's not like a scientist come in. Well, actually the elliptical is burning. It's. They just put it up there. So they would literally. Cardio manufacturers would make sure that their machines showed higher calorie burn because they knew that more people would use it.

[Adam]

Yeah. Did you hear the, did you hear the clip or did you listen to the clip? Dorian Yates.

[Sal]

Oh, where he was talking to Huberman.

[Adam]

Yeah.

[Sal]

So I watched some of that.

[Adam]

Did you watch that? Did you watch what he talked about how he does his, his cardio?

[Sal]

No.

[Adam]

Six minutes.

[Sal]

No.

[Adam]

Oh, I wish you would have watched it.

[Sal]

I didn't see that.

[Adam]

I sent it to you guy.

[Sal]

Well, you know why? Because I saw so many clips.

[Adam]

Only a minute and a half. You listen to. He taught. He taught. Maybe Doug could pull it up because it's literally only a minute and a half for us to listen to because I was super intrigued by this. And there's, and I guess there is a. They call it, they call it one, I think. Yeah. What? Yeah, one minute of cardio and it is three bouts of all out 20 seconds. So it ends up being. It's called one minute cardio.

[Sal]

Okay.

[Adam]

But it's six total minutes and it's basically 23. So it's interval essentially three 20 second all outs. And he breaks down like the benefits and this research to compare it to like an hour worth of cardio.

[Sal]

Yeah.

[Adam]

And the amount of calorie burn and benefits and everything that you get. And it's. And I believe that it's, it's, it's called.

[Sal]

And I'm not familiar with that specifically.

[Adam]

I have never.

[Sal]

But I am familiar with the data around that form of cardio.

[Adam]

Yeah, I'm familiar with like the data around hiit cardio. We've talked about this before. I'm familiar. I didn't Even I've never heard of this. And I heard Dorian Yates talking about with Huberman.

[Sal]

It's. It's got huge VO2 max benefits, health benefits, stamina benefits. Here's the problem, though. If you take most everyday people and you have them sprint all out for 20 seconds, it's inappropriate for them. It's just a fact, you guys.

[Adam]

Well, he's. He's. He. He's actually pitching it on the. On the what?

[Sal]

Your.

[Adam]

Your thing. You like the elliptical? No, no, no, no, no. What? You really like that? You're. Oh, salt bike. Thank you.

[Sal]

Yeah, it's. Yeah, I don't think it's inappropriate because of the technique. I think it's inappropriate.

[Adam]

You find it, Doug, for me?

[Doug]

Yeah, I found a clip.

[Adam]

Oh, I have it. I don't have it.

[Sal]

So. Okay.

[Doug]

You still got a cardio.

[Adam]

Anyway, play it because I want. I want Sal to hear it and so.

[Sal]

See, we got to hear it. Yeah, we're going to play it.

[Doug]

Yeah, I'll play the one you sent. Yeah, and you can just clip it in. Dylan.

[Adam]

Yeah, I just, you know, I, I would. Made me want to go listen to the whole interview so I could hear Huber and him go back and forth on it. But I. What caught my attention was, you know, comparing it to like a whole hour of cardio. I thought was really fascinating and, and done on. On that bike. For your point, risk versus reward.

[Sal]

No, it's not the technique that I'm worried about. It's. It's. It's. It's literally the exertion. Well, I mean, some people, it's just.

[Adam]

Well, the average. Well, yeah, he's like, watch, listen.

[Sal]

Yeah, here you go. Six minutes, like on an airbike. It's my favorite because it engages every muscle.

[Adam]

Push, pull, legs.

[Sal]

If you do a 22nd all out, you got on the side of the thing to see how much watts you're generating. So now you have a target to hit or exceed every time. So do a minute, minute and a half, warm up, whatever. Feel warm. All out, balls out, like the devil's

[Adam]

chasing you for 20 seconds. First one's tough, but it's okay.

[Sal]

Go down slowly for a minute, do the second one all out. Second one's really tough. The third one is. I've never met anybody that wants to do one after the third one because literally you can't breathe. And the benefits from that. Again, I think there's a book called the One Minute Cardio. It's a bit tricky because it's not really one minute. It's one minute of sprints, but it's six minutes in total. And they compared that to 45 minutes of steady cardio on a treadmill or whatever it is and the results are more or less the same. So.

[Adam]

So it's 45 minutes. I thought it was 60, but still, but still I.

[Sal]

So yes. But think of the typical client, the average 40 something year old that comes in and train with our trainers and have them go all out 20 seconds. No it not. It's gonna.

[Adam]

So I would not gonna be. So I. Again, I found someone's fit.

[Sal]

Really fit.

[Adam]

Yeah. I found this more interesting for us.

[Sal]

Yes.

[Adam]

So.

[Sal]

Oh, that's totally.

[Adam]

Yeah. My average client. I mean we're all huge fans of steps and lists. Right. Like getting them there for 45 minutes. Just, just the movement of that. I think there's lots of benefits just moving recuperative. Yeah, that's what I mean. The, the benefits of moving the body for 45 minutes. But coming from this I'm like, oh, this is an interesting strategy. And I've actually never heard, you know

[Sal]

what's funny about that?

[Doug]

I was doing that just kind of intuitively anyways. Just. Well, it's basically hit training from how he's describing it. I might have got a little longer than that. But you know, just because the assault bike isn't as like impact.

[Sal]

No.

[Doug]

So it's not like quite as bad. But yeah. Your average person doesn't even know how to move fast yet.

[Sal]

No.

[Doug]

You have to get all the.

[Sal]

Here's the other thing too cursors to that. For, for a lot of people, I'm one of these because I know the way they're selling it. Six minutes versus 45 minutes. Right. Oh my God. I'd much rather do six. I wouldn't. I'd much rather do 45 minutes and listen to something and go, you tell me to do something like that, I gotta psycho.

[Adam]

And there's. To your point, there's a, there's a lot of recuperative benefits to moving the body for. I mean one of my favorite things to walk when I walk 45 minutes is post meal. And so I'm getting the digestive benefits, I'm getting the meditative benefits. I'm. It's relaxing to actually do that. Like so there's, there's a calming part that. And I, and I, you know, to the conversation that we just had, I feel like, yeah. Getting people to de. Stress and calm down. That is definitely not a strategy. Yeah. For that thought it was interesting. I still don't think that changes would ever change my recommendation for fit, healthy people.

[Sal]

It could be something interesting. I know Justin would love that because he loves. He's got two gears.

[Adam]

Yeah.

[Sal]

All out or stop.

[Doug]

That's why I was inclined to do that. Yeah. That are like punching, kicking.

[Sal]

How can I do cardio? Angrily.

[Doug]

Everything angry.

[Adam]

Yeah.

[Doug]

But then, like.

[Sal]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Even as I get older now, it's like in that conversation we just had, talking about, like, the amount of time throughout your day, you should be in parasympathetic and think about that. Like just the, the, the little stuff that you don't think is, like, compounding on the stress you already have. Like, just, just looking at your phone and, you know, carrying that all day long. You're really not in good parasympathetic state unless you're intentionally doing it.

[Adam]

I can't wait for the audience to hear that interview that we just did. I thought that was a really fun.

[Doug]

Yeah, that one got me a bit.

[Adam]

Good conversation, you know, from a doctor from both sides. Right. So really cool to hear and, and, and just validate to what. We communicate a lot to the people that call into this show.

[Sal]

Yeah.

[Adam]

And we get a lot of flack from our space, normally from young, naive trainers that think they're really smart. Oh, these guys are always telling people,

[Sal]

do less, do less. Well, you know what? That comes because you're weak. It's not. Yeah. It's lack of experience because. Bunch of boomers.

[Doug]

Get your canes out.

[Sal]

Yeah. Scott's. He's a doctor. He's a licensed physician, but he also works in preventative, and he works with a lot of people. And if you're a trainer and you've been training people for a decade and you work with a lot of people, you're going to sound like us. That's just that you have that experience. But if you're young and you're new and you just became a trainer and you're just reading the science and you just train yourself and you're 23, 3 years old or whatever. Yeah. You're going to be like, no, get after it. That's what you got to do. Because that's what works. And it's like, that's not how it really works in the real Dorian Yates. I love Dorian and I all respect. I mean, he's a character dude. He's one of my. I grew up in the 90s, and that's when I was into bodybuilding and he was Mr. Olympia and he's awesome, but he communicates strength Training from his lens, and he does a good job. And it's hard to argue against the guy that won Mr. Olympia that many times, but he. He argues it from that lens and basically says anything around volume, with training, anything around frequent, like, it's all garbage. It's only intensity. And I mean, I'd hate to tell him to his face because he'd be like, I won Mr. Olympia. What about you? But it's just. It just. That's not. That's not the truth. That's not the real truth. There's some value in what he says. Yeah, but that's not.

[Adam]

Yeah, the full story. It's a small. It's a small. Like, that's. Again, that was interesting to me. For me, like, I thought that was an interesting.

[Sal]

Like, did you hear Dorian talk crap about Israel tell?

[Adam]

No, no, no.

[Sal]

So Mike Israel telling. So somebody asked Israel tell about Mike Mentzer and about his method of training. And so the way that israetel countered it, he was trying to be funny as he's like, he did a little science, right? And then because Mike Mentzer is like the originator, one of the bodybuilders that popularized that style of training where it's like one set all out, heavy duty, right? That's it. And then you're done. And so he's like, and I look way better than Mike Mentzer. And he got BL for that. So everyone's like, you look like a. Like a fat piece of crap compared to Mike Metzer. And Dorian just rusted. Like, if you're going to debate a bodybuilder about science, what you don't bring up is if you look that. You look how they look. Because that's why they're pro bodybuilders that, you know. So that's like, you're losing the argument, bro. No matter how good your science is, I got to fight.

[Adam]

Was it on that interview or was it different one?

[Sal]

Yeah, dude, I think it was that one. But I heard him in some other interviews where he. Yeah, he's talking about.

[Adam]

You said you think that Huberman worked with him. Is that true?

[Sal]

I believe Huberman. Dorian trained Huberman for a couple sessions or something like that. So they have a relationship like your dream. If I, I would. I mean, I just want to hang out with him. That's why.

[Adam]

That's why, I don't think. Because he's going to teach you so much about, you know.

[Sal]

That's a good question. Is there anybody at this stage of our life?

[Adam]

Hell, no.

[Sal]

There's nobody like, you, you would want to.

[Adam]

I don't even like to work out with somebody, much less I want someone telling me what to work out off.

[Sal]

Are you kidding me? There's.

[Adam]

I don't even want to work out with you, much less you tell me

[Sal]

what I need to do.

[Adam]

Stop it.

[Doug]

Isn't that funny?

[Adam]

Well, I mean, like, the first thing,

[Doug]

like, people want to do.

[Sal]

You, you're like, there's no, like, there's an athlete. There's nobody.

[Adam]

There's nobody. Okay, okay. Unless there, okay. Unless you were like, okay, you, you, you admitted your stuff that you're, you're going through right now. Like, I could see you hiring me or somebody. Not because I'm going to teach you something, but because for the.

[Sal]

You're gonna make me do what I want.

[Adam]

Yeah, right. The, the psychological accountability, you know him best, right?

[Doug]

It' kind of thing.

[Sal]

Yeah, I know exactly where I won't.

[Adam]

Yeah, exactly. And it's not because I'm going to teach you anything. Right. Or, or even tell you, but I, I, I would tell you what, you know, you already need to do, I think. And so I think that would be the only reason why I would.

[Sal]

See, but you know what I mean, there's no, like, celebrity, like, bodybuilder athlete that you'd be like. Not really, huh?

[Doug]

No, I can't think of it. Yeah, it's.

[Sal]

And it's not because I know more than the person. You don't care.

[Adam]

I tell you what, I tell you what. I'd rather have a conversation, I think, of a conversation like a Scott who we just had with.

[Sal]

Oh.

[Adam]

Like, he's not gonna teach me anything in the weight room. No, but having him, like, break down your health. Yeah, like, yeah, yeah.

[Doug]

Like, like in between sets, he's like, just.

[Adam]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Educating me on, like, like, you know, take this today because you're gonna go fly and do this, and then tomorrow, like, I could geek out on that.

[Sal]

You guys want to know what my, who my. My wife told me I should hire to tell me Corinne.

[Adam]

Oh, wow.

[Sal]

She's like, you should hire Corinne. I'm like, what? She's like, yeah, she's going.

[Adam]

Well, I mean, indirectly, that's.

[Sal]

And she would tell you, and she knows that. That you be the worst person. Yeah. We get in a fight, dude, is what would happen. No way. Oh, bro. You would leave and, and be so frustrated with. No, I would. Yeah, you. Yeah, you would. You get frustrated with me anyway, let alone try to trade me, dude.

[Adam]

I don't know.

[Doug]

I feel like Be a little volatile.

[Sal]

Just was an outside.

[Adam]

I feel like you would. I feel like I. I feel like Corinne would be too nice and sweet, like you need someone to.

[Sal]

Which is why I would do what she says. Because I would. Yeah. Because I know I could dominate. When she leaves, I go do something else. I do that client. No, I don't do any extra exercise. Yeah, that's not what's happening.

[Adam]

She's like, you sure look like you're pup to me.

[Sal]

Yeah. Hey, you guys, just. So they just dropped the. Okay, so retitutried.

[Adam]

Oh, is it out officially? Oh, okay.

[Sal]

You guys know this is a GLP3. Okay. So the.

[Adam]

Builds muscle.

[Sal]

The first. Well, so the first. The first GLP drugs were what are called GLP1s. Okay. So they act on one receptor. I'm not going to get into science mainly because I don't understand it. Then there's the GLP2s. So you have. Semaglutide is a GLP1. Tirzepatide is a GLP2. In the studies, tirzepatide causes more weight

[Adam]

loss and less muscle loss.

[Sal]

And less muscle loss. So then the companies are like, well, can we hit more research? Can we hit more stuff? So red. A true tide is a. You can only get it as a research chemical right now. I don't recommend you do that. You don't know what you're getting. But it's in the studies. And then there's lots of bodybuilders and people we know, of course, who've used it, but they've come out with the trials. And you want to know what's crazy about these trials?

[Doug]

And this is humans and not just rats.

[Sal]

This is human trials. Phase two trials. In fact, I think I saved some of the. An article on it. Dude, it's actually a commercial for. For Reddit. True.

[Adam]

So if it's in phase two, Sal, what's realistic when it.

[Sal]

When.

[Adam]

When you can get it through a real pharmacy? How. How far out?

[Sal]

Well, they've got. What's the prediction they've got? They still have to go through phase. No, it's actually phase three. Sorry. It was a phase three trial. So depending on how the. The FDA views these trials, it'll. It'll. If it passes, then it can become a drug. It could be something that we can now.

[Adam]

Ozempic, Manjaro. Are they all still on GLP1 or have they actually gotten.

[Sal]

So maglutide and tirzepatide are the chemical names. I don't know what the brand I know. Zempic is semaglutide. I think Manjaro's Tirzepatide, if I'm not mistaken.

[Adam]

No, look that up because I don't. I don't know if they've jumped to tirzepatide yet.

[Sal]

Some have. Yeah.

[Adam]

Yeah, they have. They.

[Sal]

Yeah. I don't know.

[Adam]

No, no, no, I know, I know. You can get those.

[Doug]

No, no, actually a big brand.

[Adam]

Okay, that's what I'm wondering. I want because. Because last I I knew, Ozempic was still messing with some semi glutide.

[Sal]

No. Yeah. Semaglutide is. That's the first one.

[Adam]

Yes, yes.

[Sal]

Okay, so Reddit True Tide came out and they're doing research on it and it's called. And again, it's a GLP3. And phase two trials are crazy. Phase three trials come out, bro. Say, just trip off this. Okay. A significant percentage of the people dropped out of the study. So these are participants.

[Adam]

I mean, dropped it.

[Sal]

Why? They quit this. And this is one of the things of a trial. Will people drop out because of. Of side effects or because of. Do you want to know why? Okay. 8. So a significant percentage dropped out because. You ready for this? Yeah. Excessive weight loss. They were losing too much weight. That's like a commercial. Like, that's gonna sell.

[Doug]

Crazy.

[Sal]

Yes. Because it caused such a crazy amount of weight loss. Now, the bodybuilders and the people I know who take retatrue Tide, they're like comparing it to Tirzepatite and stomach. They're like, it's. It's Godzilla in comparison. It's so effective. So I have a friend who did a bodybuilding competition, went on retatrutide. What does that say right there? Yeah.

[Doug]

So Zep Bound and Manjaro or Tirzepatite.

[Adam]

Okay, so that means Ozempic is still using the original one.

[Sal]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

[Adam]

So. And overdosing.

[Sal]

Yeah, A lot of people. So what I think they're going to do is mess with the doses, maybe lower the dose because it's so, so powerful or whatever. But I have a buddy who did a bodybuilding competition. He did Red a True Tide. And he's like, dude. And now, by the way, you're talking about pro bodybuilding, these guys are insane. With how low the calories get, the cardio. It's just insane. They're hitting stage shredded. It's not healthy. He's like, dude. He goes, you know, he's done. This guy's done a lot of competition. I'm not going to say too much because everyone will know who it is, but he's like, bro. He goes, he goes, zero appetite. Yeah. He's like zero.

[Adam]

I knew that with Dr. Zepaties. I mean there's a part of me that wants to show the audience because I did the first one for like really to show like for, and get perspective for training normal ass people. And so that was the goal. I could absolutely normalize. I could absolutely take that with the strategy of how do I use this to get shredded. And I, and I know I, I would, I would manage the dose a little bit different and, and I would hit it right with that sweet spot where I still have an appetite and I can get what I need to. But it just, I remember how much it just completely eliminates the noise. I had no cravings for junk food. And that is when you are dieting for a show and training that consistently in a deficit for that long. You have dreams about food all the, I mean all the time. I thought about food for weeks and weeks and weeks and so to quiet that noise would be the, like, it would make competing so much easier.

[Sal]

Oh God.

[Adam]

That's the hardest part.

[Sal]

The hardest part separates.

[Adam]

The hardest part about competing is, is the diet. It's not the training part. Lifting weights and showing, it's fun. A lot of people love that. It is literally. And if you know programming, that's the easy part. The hard part is can you, you

[Sal]

know, just tough it out?

[Doug]

That's what always deterred me from.

[Adam]

And stay locked in dialed to the calorie for months. And that is, that separates the people that can get up there and do that. And if I, if I was using something like that to quiet that.

[Sal]

Oh, do you know what the average weight loss was for the people in the study? There's 445 people, 28 of the body weight.

[Adam]

So we have like, tell me, I want to know the muscle. I want to know the muscle.

[Sal]

I don't have that.

[Adam]

That's what I want.

[Sal]

I don't have the data on that because the earlier data that I saw showed less muscle loss than the other.

[Adam]

I remember that's what they originally when we were at Dr. C's convention, that's what, what they were hyping.

[Doug]

Yeah, they were alluding to it.

[Sal]

Let me put it this way. A 300 pound person theoretically with this average weight loss through this trial would have lost £84.

[Adam]

And how, what period of time?

[Sal]

Oh God. I should see how this, how long the study went.

[Adam]

That's a question 6:12.

[Sal]

No, no, no, no, no. It was a. It was a. It was a longer study. I got to look up and see how long that was, but, bro, that's wild. That is so wild. I got to look up 72 weeks. So how long is 72 weeks? What is that?

[Doug]

52 weeks a year, so.

[Adam]

Oh, wow. These are over a year long.

[Sal]

So they're staying on it for a while now.

[Adam]

Oh, I really want to know what the muscle is then. So do I. Yeah, that's. That to me, that's.

[Sal]

Dude, how crazy is it that obese people in the study were like, I gotta. I gotta stop this. I lost too much already. Yeah, that sounds to me like a commercial.

[Adam]

Well, that also alludes to me that they knew that they were losing a ton of muscle. That's why you would drop out.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Adam]

You know, you don't drive out because you're losing too much fat. You drop out, you recognize.

[Sal]

You're getting worried about it.

[Adam]

Yeah. You're getting worried that you're. You're losing a lot of muscle.

[Sal]

Yeah, dude.

[Adam]

Yeah.

[Sal]

Yeah. Isn't that crazy? Yeah, that's wild.

[Adam]

I know so many normal people that are using it right now.

[Sal]

That's the part that's crazy to me. Yeah. People who need to lose, like £15, £10, put me on a job.

[Doug]

There's no reason for that.

[Adam]

It's a. I mean, if it's a massive.

[Sal]

I know people who don't need to lose any weight who go on it because they just. I don't want to, you know, I don't want to think about food. Wow. Okay.

[Adam]

It does take. There is a. There is a part. And I guess, you know, what's. What is the balance of this here, right? Because there's. There's. There's the hedonistic value of food. Right?

[Sal]

Like, of course.

[Adam]

Like, there's something to say having the discipline. Like, it ruined ice cream for me. Like, I mean, I remember on it, like, let me try. It's like, oh, my God, I don't even want this. Like, that's terrible. I love this. Like, so it's. It's.

[Sal]

It's an interesting result. It is come back to me.

[Adam]

But it'll come right back, though. It'll come right back. Yeah, yeah. You feed it a couple of times and then you're. Oh, yeah, I remember.

[Doug]

Remember this?

[Sal]

Hey, change the subject. Men's Health did, like, this survey thing about skincare products. Do you guys wanna know who got first place? Who got best for anti aging? Caldera Lab? I Should hope.

[Doug]

It's caldera.

[Sal]

Caldera lab. Is that a new article in men's health magazine named the hydrolayer the best for anti aging.

[Adam]

I don't even use that one.

[Sal]

So hydrolayer is pure moisturizer. So it's a moisturizer.

[Adam]

Okay.

[Sal]

And I mean, it's. So that's the one my wife uses. So I have the hydrolayer, we have the serum, and she likes the hydro layer. And she's like, dude, I put it on. It's like the best moisturizer I've ever used. What does that say there, Doug?

[Doug]

Yeah, so it has exosomes. It has over a trillion exosomes. Hyaluronic acid, polyglutamic acid, and peptide growth factors.

[Adam]

Oh, I didn't know they have a subscription. I didn't know they have a subscription model where you can save 20%.

[Sal]

Oh, wow, that's really good. I didn't know that. Yeah, so. But I mean, stuff like that, you know, it's great. Caldera lab went from, like, new company to dominate.

[Caller]

Oh, yeah.

[Sal]

Such a crazy top brand in that space. That's right. Clinical. Look at those clinical trials. They come out and they're just. They crush. What I like about. Here's the thing that I like about Caldera.

[Adam]

We haven't had. We haven't had their founder on the show, have we?

[Sal]

No, that's a good. That's true.

[Adam]

It would be. It would be an interesting. Be an interesting story.

[Sal]

It would be an interesting story because they went after a market that kind of didn't exist. Yeah, there was men's skin.

[Doug]

I mean, it's much like viori. If you look at the parallel of that.

[Sal]

That's true.

[Doug]

Serving the male market.

[Sal]

What else could we do? Let's think about this, guys. What's a market? Yeah, there's like a huge market for.

[Doug]

We're not doing makeup, you guys.

[Adam]

Okay.

[Sal]

Makeup. No. You know, some companies have tried that.

[Doug]

I do.

[Sal]

Really? Yes. Some companies, men makeup in the past have tried a little bit. I think their peak was the end.

[Doug]

Only if you bring back glam metal or something.

[Adam]

If there's one of us. If there was one of us that have tried it. Doug's tried it. Doug has tried it.

[Sal]

One year for Halloween. They have it one year for Halloween. We were dressing up. I dressed up as a vampire and I put eyeliner on, you know. Oh, my eyes. And I looked in the mirror and I was like, whoa, dude. I look. Look like a magician. Like,

[Doug]

mysterious.

[Adam]

I think I sent you a Chris angel spoof video.

[Sal]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Yeah, Yeah.

[Adam]

I was, like, crazy.

[Doug]

His name was Chris Angel.

[Adam]

I can't get a. By the way, too. Oh, my gosh.

[Sal]

Yeah, that's funny.

[Adam]

It's a real thing.

[Sal]

What?

[Adam]

No, that's a real company.

[Sal]

That's men's makeup.

[Doug]

Yes, yes.

[Caller]

Stop it.

[Sal]

Shut your face right now.

[Doug]

Yes, it's true.

[Sal]

What, are you gonna put on his makeup? As a guy, what are you gonna put on your face? What do they got? Read me the product.

[Adam]

Eyeliner. Yeah. Brow blush.

[Doug]

Brow darkener. Like enhancing your manly features. Shine eraser, quick cover.

[Adam]

Go to the top. Show the guy. Show the guy.

[Sal]

Yeah. No. Well, yeah.

[Doug]

What was he doing to his eyebrows?

[Sal]

I could tell something.

[Doug]

Look. He looks sad.

[Sal]

He looks sad.

[Adam]

I wonder how it does. See, if it's a growing market, you're probably.

[Sal]

Oh, my God. I don't even want to say the name of the company, because I don't like him, dude.

[Doug]

I mean, there's. So it's more than one brand.

[Adam]

Well, yeah. So see how. See if it's a growing market. Yeah. What is going on, guys?

[Doug]

It's like, concealers, largely.

[Sal]

So, like, covering.

[Adam]

It says makeup for men. It is makeup for men.

[Sal]

Well, yeah. Yeah.

[Doug]

I was thinking either that or, like, high heels. I am justified. I'm thinking about trying this under eye concealer.

[Adam]

Hey, it popped up in his search really fast. He didn't even finish typing. He put m and then make up for men.

[Sal]

Pop right up. Welcome back. Yep.

[Doug]

I've been found out here.

[Sal]

He's at home after work.

[Doug]

I got, like, one of those tissues

[Adam]

and put my lips on.

[Sal]

It's like, I knew he was cheating, bro.

[Adam]

I knew he was cheating to look that young.

[Sal]

How fun. Hey, how funny would it be if, like, we all, like, did makeup, like, men's makeup, went home, didn't say anything like, like, what would your life say?

[Doug]

We don't look like clowns. It's not uncommon, though, if you're on in films and things like that on tv.

[Sal]

Hey, I'll tell everybody right now. That is funny that we watching us on camera. There's zero makeup on our face.

[Adam]

Yeah, I look. I look this ugly for real.

[Sal]

Yes.

[Doug]

Everybody can tell.

[Sal]

We realize that. You guys, they look adjusted. Do you live outside?

[Doug]

I'm cracking as we speak.

[Sal]

What's going on here? Oh, God. Anyway. Hey, do you guys. Have you guys seen the studies? I'm sure you haven't. Where do you guys.

[Adam]

You guys.

[Sal]

Piss off, bro. Low blow, man.

[Doug]

Have you guys ever sound like Gavin Newsom there?

[Sal]

Hey, that clip. I'm Just like you guys. I'm just like you guys.

[Adam]

I'm. Dang. So many people already making so many.

[Doug]

Who's this PR person?

[Sal]

He's such a snake.

[Doug]

Actually, I've been paying his PR person.

[Sal]

Yeah. Taxes. All right, so there's. Where do you guys keep your toothbrushes? In the bathroom. Where's your toothbrush?

[Adam]

A little cup thing.

[Sal]

Out in the open, out in the air.

[Adam]

Yeah.

[Sal]

How about you, Justin?

[Doug]

For what?

[Sal]

Your toothbrush. Yeah, I know where this is going.

[Doug]

I know where this is going.

[Sal]

Fecal matter, dude, is on your toothbrush.

[Doug]

I've heard this.

[Sal]

If you flush your toilet, if you don't close your toilet.

[Adam]

How far away? I got a pretty big bathroom and it's pretty far away, bro.

[Sal]

Do you know how far this spray goes? Doug, look up. How far does the. Does this. What do you call it? The spray from toilet flushing. How far does that.

[Adam]

Yeah, mine's pretty far away, bro.

[Sal]

You would be shocked.

[Adam]

That's like saying if someone has their toothbrush in their bedroom, it's going to get. It's going to get that. Well, that's how. I mean, mine's far away.

[Doug]

You have it on your phone anyways.

[Sal]

What? Poop.

[Adam]

Poop face.

[Sal]

I know for sure.

[Doug]

Talk about your own.

[Adam]

That's why I always talk on speakerphone.

[Sal]

Yeah. What? Oh, yeah. Near your face.

[Adam]

Yeah.

[Doug]

It says it can go up to five feet.

[Adam]

Oh, see, I'm good, bro.

[Sal]

You're for the.

[Adam]

Oh, five feet. All right.

[Sal]

Yeah.

[Adam]

My sinks. My sinks.

[Sal]

Mr. Adam. At least 30 foot bathroom.

[Adam]

My bathroom's not that big. No, it's not that big. It's not that big. But it's definitely more than. Hey, down the goal. Now, listen, when I had my condo. When I had my condo, my bathroom was definitely like that. Yeah.

[Sal]

Yeah. So a lot.

[Adam]

If you live in a condo, you probably absolutely have a.

[Sal]

He's trying to be relatable, right? I was poor. I used to be poor. Whatever, Gabby. Oh, my.

[Doug]

Like you.

[Sal]

Oh, my bathroom. There's no way the poop touches my toilet. I gotta call my wife from one end to the other.

[Adam]

Well, you're silly, brother. You have to factor that to say something like that with a study. There's gotta be some sort of a range that they're doing that with. Because.

[Sal]

Average bathroom.

[Adam]

Although my bathroom is not any. I have a small bathroom. Actually, I do not have. Relative to my house and everything else. It's not big at all. It's not.

[Sal]

Listen, my house is huge. My bathroom should be huge.

[Adam]

It's not you have.

[Sal]

I think you have. No, Doug. Feels like a mile. Doug.

[Adam]

Doug has a big.

[Sal]

Stop trying to.

[Adam]

The guy with the least amount of

[Sal]

people has the biggest house. Not yet. He hasn't got. Have you gotten your new place yet?

[Doug]

Yes, I have it.

[Sal]

Are you there?

[Doug]

Not there, no.

[Sal]

He's got two houses.

[Adam]

His square footage is.

[Sal]

Hey, so what do you. What are you going to do with the west wing? You're going to stay on one side.

[Doug]

I'm going to put a velvet robe, intercom.

[Sal]

You throw parties, dude.

[Doug]

I will. I will intercom just to get your toothbrush.

[Sal]

I just. I just pictured Doug in his pajamas running down the hall.

[Adam]

Is your toilet within five feet of your sink?

[Sal]

Let me think. Yeah.

[Adam]

Oh, it is.

[Sal]

Yeah. Probably. Oh, wow. Yeah, probably. I just. I rinse it in the toilet because I don't mess around. Nice. Might as well do that. Well, so now toilet bowl water is

[Adam]

actually supposed to be really clean.

[Sal]

Not toilet bowl water. Yes, the stuff in the top. You're talking about the tank. The tank? Yeah. Not the. What have you. Not in the bowl.

[Adam]

What do you mean? Why wouldn't the bowl be clean?

[Sal]

Well, what do you mean?

[Doug]

You have to ask?

[Sal]

Hold on a second. Hold on a second, please. Just like the dogs. You have a look on your face like you're just. Oh, I'm not borrowing you, too. You said a good place to scoop

[Adam]

out and drink at night.

[Sal]

No, no, no. If there's ever an emergency to see the tank wall.

[Doug]

Tank on the top.

[Sal]

Yeah, the tank. Not the bowl. Not the bowl.

[Adam]

I feel that looks way grosser.

[Sal]

No, no. What?

[Adam]

Have you ever looked at the back of that?

[Sal]

Nobody poops on that, though.

[Caller]

Do you?

[Adam]

Yeah, that's the thing.

[Doug]

Unless you do upper decker, which would be just.

[Sal]

That's the worst. Don't upper deck.

[Doug]

Don't upper deck anybody.

[Sal]

Unless you really.

[Adam]

You never fix that.

[Sal]

No. Throw away your toilet. Yeah. No, it's not toilet bowl. It's the bowl water is not clean.

[Adam]

So your place that is that you're within five feet, huh?

[Sal]

Yes, I'm sure. Oh, so you.

[Adam]

So you brought up a study that only affects you.

[Sal]

No.

[Adam]

Yes.

[Doug]

He was worried about it.

[Sal]

It. Yes. Are you.

[Adam]

Are you within five?

[Sal]

No. No.

[Doug]

It's probably like maybe like eight.

[Sal]

Yeah.

[Caller]

10.

[Sal]

It's like 99 of the people listening now.

[Adam]

Everybody's trying to downplay their body.

[Sal]

So make sure to make me look like a total. I've got this massive.

[Doug]

Do you have a TV in your bathroom?

[Sal]

No.

[Doug]

Okay.

[Sal]

No. Okay.

[Doug]

No.

[Sal]

I don't want it One. You have a TV in your closet? I do. Oh, you're such a girl.

[Adam]

Whatever. You know how cool that is? We play sports where I'm hanging out my clothes.

[Doug]

His closet's pretty cool, dude.

[Sal]

Have you been in it? No.

[Doug]

Get into Adam's closet.

[Sal]

It's a secret club, dude. With all the shoes.

[Doug]

He showed me.

[Sal]

Yeah, no, I'm cool.

[Adam]

Still doesn't care about any of that stuff. I mean, this guy shits next to his toothbrush content with that.

[Sal]

But if you close the seat when you flush, that's what you need to do. That was the whole point of what I was trying to say, you guys, is close the seat, flush the seat.

[Doug]

This is a psa.

[Sal]

Don't leave the seat up. I know you like to watch it go down, Justin, but put the seat down. You know what I mean? Yeah,

[Adam]

that's the hat.

[Sal]

All right, so I want to talk to you guys about. So one of our. Our partners, Ro. I want to talk about liposomal technology, which has been around for a long time, and it's one of their. One of their selling points. And so I brought up some.

[Caller]

Some.

[Sal]

Just some stuff on liposomal technology which I think people need to know about. So liposomes are essentially. They're microscopic bubbles of. Essentially a type of a fat. Yes. A phospholipid that surrounds the compound and it protects it and brings it to target tissues. By the way, they use this for drugs. So pharmaceuticals who use liposomal technology, but with supplements. I looked up the data. Do you know how much increases bioavailability?

[Doug]

Oh, most. A bunch.

[Sal]

Five to ten times. Yeah, five to ten times.

[Adam]

You know, I never heard about that until, like, maybe a few years ago. And I feel like so many supplement companies are now moving in that direction.

[Sal]

I'll give you an example. Glutathione. If you take glutathione and it's not liposomal, you're wasting your time.

[Doug]

It's a total waste.

[Sal]

You. You. In fact, the old way of taking glutathione only used to be injection, because if you took it orally, you get no rise in glutathione in your system. It was just a complete waste of time. Liposomal glutathione definitely works because it's encapsulated. And so what Roe does with their products, they have creatine, nad. They have glutathione, they have magnesium. All of them have this liposomal technology. So when you. If you use those things in other ways and then you try Rose, you're probably Going to get better absorption.

[Adam]

Well, we've been on the liposomal glutathione kick for a while, but I like roe better because of the. It's in the bottle and I can. You can just squirt it in like. Yeah, it's so. It's so much more convenient.

[Sal]

Yeah.

[Adam]

And I've been consistent with that, too. You just reminded me that.

[Sal]

No, it's good.

[Adam]

That hadn't done.

[Sal]

That's good. All right, I got one more study for you guys. It's that we probably haven't read. It's making. Yeah, you guys haven't read this. There's no way you guys might have seen this. Actually, it was a study on homeschool versus, you know, kids going to traditional school and how well they do with their tests. Who does better, homeschool kids or public school kids?

[Adam]

Home school for sure.

[Sal]

Way better.

[Adam]

I like to see. I'd like to see private school thrown away.

[Sal]

Yeah.

[Adam]

Because I think. I think like public school struggles big time against both of those, homeschool and private school.

[Sal]

But homeschool kids just generally crush in comparison to other kids. Even private school kids.

[Adam]

You think it's more. Is it against private school kids?

[Sal]

Even private school kids. Oh, I like to see that. Now, private school kids tend to outperform public school kids.

[Adam]

I would like to see. You know what I like to see.

[Sal]

But homeschool kids typically do the best.

[Adam]

I have a theory that. That the, like. Okay, what do you think is the. I think the biggest factor of that? I don't think it's curriculum.

[Doug]

Whoever's teaching them at home, I don't think that.

[Sal]

So I think it's two things. I know what you're going to say. Homeschool parents really. They really pay attention or involved.

[Caller]

So.

[Sal]

Okay, so that. That plays the biggest role.

[Adam]

Well, I think that plays in what I. I think it's the ratio of kid to. To teacher.

[Sal]

Of course, yes.

[Adam]

The attention and homeschool is going to have one on. You gauge the education one on four or one on one when you. Because you probably don't have. The average person probably doesn't. Isn't homeschooling more than four kids at home?

[Doug]

Are they really factoring in the parent that doesn't want to do it but is, you know, homeschooling.

[Sal]

This is all homeschool kids. Okay. Yeah. So all of them. Here's the other thing, too. When you talk to. I had clients that were really big in this community. I've told this story before, but their kid was struggling in elementary school, like, really struggling. And these were two really smart people. They were successful in tech. They were able to retire. So they said, hey, we're going to homeschool this kid. And at the time, I remember thinking, like, that's not a good idea because I had that kind of, you know, just that mentality around it. Well, anyway, this kid did really well as a result, because you tailor it to your kid. But anyway, I got into that community. Yeah. Do you know how, you know, how long, you know what the average amount of education per day, let's say per school day. How much time a homeschool kid spend on it versus it's like an hour or two.

[Adam]

I mean, I was homeschooled for a year, and when I was, I was in seventh, eighth grade. Seventh grade.

[Sal]

Is that because you got in trouble or was it.

[Adam]

Yeah. Getting fights that, remember I was getting bullied was when I remember. I tell the story when I moved to Colorado and I basically, I, I, it was in a full year because I was already going to school the first quarter, and then the rest of the year I was homeschooled. Basically just followed the school's curriculum and my mom would just give me the stuff that I needed to work on per day. I was done in like two hours. Yeah. I would do the school work in two hours. I had the whole rest of the day.

[Doug]

No distractions. Yeah, yeah.

[Adam]

It was just, it was. It's crazy when you actually condense it down to what you need to do and just like hone in and focus on what, what's getting done. It's like, kills me.

[Sal]

Time. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Doug]

That's what killed me about school in general.

[Adam]

Yeah.

[Sal]

You're just bored. Yeah.

[Doug]

It's just wasted.

[Adam]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Like time and effort and it's so inefficient, you know, and that just. I don't know.

[Adam]

Well, it always frustrated me. The old argument against the two of those used to be the socialization.

[Sal]

I know.

[Adam]

That used to be the big argument.

[Sal]

Yeah. But that's if you just keep your kid inside alone and that's all you do. But they do activities outside of school.

[Adam]

But I'm sports.

[Sal]

You put them in.

[Adam]

It would be interesting to see how many. Because I do know. I mean, I have family that, that home school kids. Yeah, yeah. And the kids are amazing. Some of the best kids that I've ever been around, so. But I also know they, they, they were very proactive about those things. So it be interesting to see if you, if you took all the homeschool Parents. How many of them do a good job of actually doing that? Because I think I can also see how easily you could isolate your kids.

[Sal]

Of course.

[Adam]

You know what I'm saying? Because it's just like you're home, you're home all day anyways and it's like,

[Doug]

you know, the real effort is to get them involved in a lot of other like extracurricular things.

[Sal]

Have you guys seen the data? I don't know what the exact numbers are. Maybe you dug confine these. But the percentage of kids who are homeschooled versus traditional education that then follow that then have their parents values as they get older. In other words, if you homeschool your kids, what percentage of those kids will have your same similar values versus 80%. It's crazy. It's crazy. You put them in these. These systems. These you know, especially public indoctrinated.

[Doug]

Yeah. Because they're God.

[Sal]

Then what happened to my kid? My kid's like. Like crazy. And it's because they adopted these other.

[Adam]

I wonder too how much like. Like it matters to how much the. The parent is involved on a daily basis with the kids school work too. Because I think that probably meant of course plays a huge role.

[Sal]

Of course.

[Adam]

Like that's one of the things I love about Max's school is that it. They force us to engage. I can't. A week can't go by that I can't be involved as a parent in the schoolwork.

[Sal]

Yeah.

[Adam]

And so that's part of the schoolwork is he has. They integrate the parents and in order for him to. To be able to complete it. So it's.

[Sal]

You have percentages on that, Doug?

[Doug]

I don't see any percentages.

[Sal]

If you could change. Yeah.

[Adam]

Why he's looking at that also.

[Doug]

Yeah. 49 in one study.

[Sal]

Yeah.

[Adam]

I thought it'd be higher than that.

[Doug]

Well we were talking about the efficiency of it and everything and like how like little time you spent remind me of this quote that is like my new favorite quote is brevity is the soul of wit. Which is from like Hamlet. I guess. But it was just like. Like to me, of course my personality. It's kind of like, you know, I'm just very succinct.

[Sal]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Like what can I get done with the least amount of words. But yeah that's. I like I would love to have experienced education like that.

[Adam]

No, I. We got such a cool compliment for it.

[Caller]

So.

[Adam]

Right. We're coming up on parent teacher conference stuff and Katrina and I are traveling. Yeah. During the time and so she would. She stayed to talk to the teacher and learn. Oh, you know what? Can we do this and that. We can come. We were leaving town for this, this and that. And the lady's like, oh, you don't. You don't need to come in. And Katrina's like, well, no, the. The parent conference thing. And she's like, yeah, no, you don't. Your. Your kid's fine. She's like, well, I'll zoom call you. It's not for. It's not for. Your kid's like, what do you mean? And she's just like, he's such a good kid. We.

[Sal]

We.

[Adam]

We really want parents to come in that. We need to sit down and talk with Tommy.

[Sal]

His parents coming in. Yeah, yeah, we need to talk to them.

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah.

[Adam]

So it was like a really. She's like. It was cool compliment to hear. Yeah. The teacher be like, no, no, no, he's doing just fine.

[Sal]

That's awesome.

[Adam]

She's like, I'll zoom you. We'll take five minutes and just keep you updated on everything.

[Sal]

He's a great kid. He's a great kid. Dose has some pretty incredible products. They have a liver support product that's been shown in studies, real studies, to dramatically lower liver enzyme values. In other words, it's all natural, but it actually works. There's a lot of stuff out there that'll say it improves the health of your body or your liver, but they don't have anything backing it. Dose actually backed it with a study. If you want a healthier liver, better detoxification, you want better metabolism, you want to feel more energetic because you have a healthier liver, go to dosedaily.co mindpump. The discount code is mindpump. That'll give you 25% off. Back to the show.

[Doug]

Our first caller is Megan from Alberta.

[Sal]

Hi, Megan. Megan, Hello.

[Caller]

Hey, guys. How's it going?

[Sal]

Good. How can we help you?

[Caller]

Good. Okay, so I'm just gonna jump into a little bit of my back story here because it's kind of long. So my question is gonna be regarding the negative effects of an imbalance in the body. So four years ago, I was diagnosed with. With severe tmj. Over those last four years, I have had three jaw surgeries, the most recent being a full joint replacement. And I still might need a fourth surgery. After my first surgery, my jaw pain started to get worse. And within that year, I started having a lot of anterior ankle pain as my jaw progressively got even worse. Yet so did my lower body pains, my feet and shins Also started to become a chronic problem. It has become so bad now that most days I can only take my dog for maybe a 20 minute walk. And some days I can't even do that. I've tried everything possible so far. So I've done physio, osteopath, chiropractor, massage, acupuncture, I've done botox in my jaw twice, done the joovv red light for about a year, supplements, air, compression boots, ice, heat, rest, stretching, mobility, and I got custom insoles from my podiatrist. My podiatrist had recently sent me for an MRI on my ankles just before I had heard back from you guys. I did get the results back. I just haven't had a chance to meet with him yet to go through it all. But I kind of have the gist of it. If you guys, you guys want that information.

[Adam]

Yeah, please, let's hear it.

[Caller]

Okay, I'm gonna probably screw up these some of these words, but so on both ankles they're showing an elongated appearance of the perionis brevis and slight difference of the anterior talofibular ligament. Left ankle has tiny dorsal osteophytes. Right ankle has some thickening in the atfl, trace fluid in the tendon sheath and remote talonavicular injury avulsion. So the atfl, it was complete without ruptures, but most likely from prior low grade sprains. I did play basketball a lot in school, but that was almost 20 years ago. Now I gave these MRI results to my new osteopath and she showed me kind of where all the areas connect from the jaw to the feet and the ankles and such and nervous system. So we discussed the possibility that my severe jaw pain and inflammation could have affected these other areas and past minor injuries. She also noted signs of dysfunction in my periosteum system and may possibly have myofascial pain syndrome. Before I started this osteopath, everyone kind of always told me just to rest, relax, don't overdo it. Which I've been doing. I haven't worked in like three years because of all of this. And my pain has just progressively gotten worse and worse even within the last couple weeks. So I'm just not sure like how I could do any less. So I'm just wondering what your guys thoughts and opinions are on the idea that my jaw could be affecting my feet and ankles. As the last time I did see my podiatrist, he laughed at me for even suggesting that that's a possibility. So I just don't understand why all of a sudden this is coming back or this is coming into my ankles and feet just like with a vengeance.

[Sal]

Yeah, really, really sorry you're going through that. One of the most challenging things is to deal with chronic pain and then to not be able to find a solution or a root cause, that can be super frustrating. And you said you've been dealing with this for years, so that's really, really tough. Theoretically, pain and dysfunction in any part of the body can affect any other part of the body for sure. And we could have physiological movement explanations, but I think the easiest explanation is if you hurt a lot, you're gonna move differently. Okay. So it doesn't matter where you hurt. If it's chronic and in pain, you're going to move differently because you're constantly in pain. So that's possible. There's other few areas that I would look if I were you, though, because it sounds like potentially there's also something systemic going on. So I would look for things that could cause changes to how your body perceives pain systemically. Things that may cause inflammation, for example, or things that may cause dysfunction in a systemic way. I would test for heavy metal toxicity, mold exposure. I would test for parasites, all three of which can cause pain to pop up different parts of the body. And then what tends to be kind of signature with those things is you'll have pain in one area, then it pops up in another area, then it pops up in another area, and then before you know it, you're kind of hurting all over. Okay. So I would look at those things and you could get tested for mold, heavy metal, and parasites, just to rule them out. Because I have worked with people where they dealt with something similar to this. And it was, it was also accompanied by foggy, you know, feeling foggy minded. And, and they did have mold toxicity. And once they were able to. Or mold exposure. Once they were able to solve that, everything kind of went away. The other thing is this. We can't separate, it's impossible to separate the physiological from the psychological. And so. And it could look like this, it could look like you have chronic pain from actual dysfunction. But then it causes so much distress, so much of an interference and interruption to your life that it's. You start. And this just, this is literally, for lack of a better term, because whenever I say this, people's reaction or is like, oh, what you think? It's all in my head. Well, pain is always all in your head, no matter what. Even if I cut your arm off, the pain that you perceive is in your head, so it's not like you're making it up. But the trauma that can come from chronic pain, especially if it's a major interference or interruption into your life, like, you can't work, your relationships suffer. And it's just this. It's just there all the time. It can cause this scenario where you have pain all over your body. But I would first rule out any kind of, you know, measurable physiological condition or issue. Now you're going to osteopaths, and they're gonna. They're gonna, you know, image you. They're gonna look at the joints. What it sounds like with your ankles is what you would expect if someone has ankle pain. Doesn't sound like there's this big red flag, but it does. Like. Like, I would expect to see something if you had pain, but I wouldn't, you know, if you were my friend, I wouldn't rush to surgery until we ruled out some of this other stuff. Because if it's not. If the surgery doesn't solve it, what you end up. What ends up happening is a sequence of surgeries and then a potential loss of, you know, mobility and all that stuff. So have you had. Have you tested for any of the things that I said? Have you seen someone functional medicine that can do that?

[Caller]

I have.

Yeah. I did the Cabral heavy metal test. It was a couple years ago now, but I just had, like, minimal, like, aluminum, which they said most people kind of tend to have. And I do see a natural path here. And they tested me for mycotoxins.

[Sal]

Okay.

[Caller]

A mold. And I do have. I do have high records of that. And we've been working on it for a good six to eight months or so now.

[Sal]

Okay.

[Caller]

I just. Yeah. I'm just trying to explore kind of every avenue because I know that the mycotoxin in the sheet that he gave me, it did show, like, inflammation in the lower legs and stuff, which I thought made sense. So I was. That's kind of why I was going down that route. But then just. It kind of gets overwhelming the more people I talk to. Kind of almost hinders it a little bit. But so these osteopaths, they're really great, but, like, they're the first ones that kind of put that little seed in my head that it could be from, like, more so from my ankle or. Sorry, from my jaw.

[Sal]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Just with the timing of it all was kind of like, oh, maybe, you know, I just thought it was strange that it went straight to my feet and not to like upper body, but whatever.

[Sal]

It's possible. I mean, it's definitely possible. And I've seen, you know, like I said, somebody listening right now. If your, your face and your neck were in constant pain, you would move differently.

[Adam]

Yes.

[Doug]

Was that the only place that you had like an injury that you can remember from back when, like your ankles?

[Caller]

Yeah, I've never really had like any sort of major like injury per se. I've only sprained my ankles and like my fingers playing basketball maybe, but I don't think it's been so long. But I did hyper extend my one, my left knee almost 10 years ago now and it is still. That was kind of. I was going to try to work that into my question somehow, but it is still a fairly weak knee. Like, I just can't seem to get that back. But there was no like actual injury per se. I had all the scans and stuff. I just kind of already have double jointed knees, so I just kind of went back a little too far. And then I had a horseback riding accident, but I didn't break anything. I didn't like fracture anything. I just was bruised basically. So nothing like too major.

[Sal]

But Megan, with the mold test and stuff, have you had your home tested to see if you have any mold in the house?

[Caller]

No, we had just bought a new, not new, but new to us home. So I haven't done that.

[Sal]

But how long ago?

[Caller]

Not even a year ago yet.

[Sal]

Okay, just. Just double check. You might want to test just to make sure because it does sound a little, a little systemic with what's going on and then don't. So here's the thing. With pain, you have the. We can measure what's happening with pain. We can see the signals being sent and we can see, you know, inflammation. But the perception of the pain is such a big part of it. It's remarkable. I mean, it's remarkable. You could talk to surgeons about when they do surgeries on children who don't know any better and versus adults, which are, you know, oh man, I'm supposed to be in a lot of pain. And there's a very different kind of response. My wife experienced this very. It was very acute. She had this shoulder injury. She used to travel at the circus and she used to do the silks. And it kind of became a part of her identity. Before that, she never worked out and everything. Suddenly she was like, oh my God, I could do something athletic and I'm fit and I love it. And then she hurt her shoulder. And, you know, when I started dating Her. This was already years after she had left. She had this kind of chronic shoulder pain. And we would constantly do correctional exercise, and we had gotten to the point where her mobility and strength seemed okay, but the shoulder pain was still there. And we had this discussion around this kind of trauma connected to the shoulder pain, and we kind of worked on that, and it just went away. And she was like, I didn't even. And I'm like, well, you know, it changed your life, and I can't imagine how much of an impact what you've experienced has had on your life and that. So don't discredit that as well in terms of how that could potentially be influencing, you know, all of these things and even influence. Influencing the systemic effect with your immune system. But I would continue to look. Lyme disease would be another thing. I would look for mold. I would look for these things that can cause an immune kind of reaction. And then with exercise, I would train in a way that was correctional. Movement's always good. Sauna's always good. A good diet is always good. But definitely one thing can affect another just simply from the pain alone. I don't need to connect the dots and show how the system, how it's all connected. I think that's how doctors think. But it's like, if I punched you in the face, you probably walk differently for a while until it healed, which theoretically could affect your ankles, knees, and everything else.

[Doug]

Have you been able to get any relief with light movement, mobility with your ankles, or is it just kind of aggravated?

[Caller]

I feel like it just aggravates it. And again, that's the mental thing where I'm, like, nervous to do too much or, like, you know, like, even with mobility and stretching, like, sometimes it'll inflame it, and then I'm sitting on the couch, like, dying, or sometimes I'm okay. But then it's. The next day it hits me, and I'm just, like, nervous to, like, I haven't been to the gym in, like, a year. But that's mostly because of my jaw, because it just, like, you don't realize how much, like, things can pull on you. And then. But, like, with the feet and ankles, like, they literally just started getting to, like, the point I'm at now, which is I barely do anything because they're so inflamed, and they just, like. It just kills me to clean my house kind of thing, so I have to break that up into different days. And so, yeah, I haven't done a whole lot of, like, working out or anything. And I was hoping that maybe you guys could talk me into getting back.

[Sal]

I think. I think your best approach with exercise is to do a little bit every day when you feel okay. Use bands for sure. Correctional exercise. If you don't have Prime Pro, I'll send that to you. Those are the movements that I would do. And you do. You would just practice them a little bit here and there when you feel okay.

[Doug]

When you don't, you squeeze to get a pump.

[Sal]

That's it. And just kind of move through different ranges of motion in. In those. With those particular movements. But I would definitely look at things that can affect you systemically. Lyme mold. I would look at any. Anything with the gut. Then I would look at any potential autoimmune issue. They could test for autoimmune issues to see if there's anything else like that. But those are the areas I would look because it sounds like it's systemic. It doesn't sound like it's just one area with pain and then it's just staying there.

[Doug]

Sounds like it's kind of found a weak link that it could gravitate towards.

[Caller]

Yeah, right. Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. I don't. I will definitely try to do the Prime Pro. I appreciate you guys sending it. I don't really have many good days, but I'll. I'll definitely. Yeah, do a little bit here and there and just see how it goes. Because, like, nothing. Nothing. That's one thing. Like, I was. With the red light. I was. I have really high hopes and. And with it to just show something, but I'm wondering if it is so, like, systemic, like you say, if that's just not.

[Doug]

Have you tried any.

[Sal]

You've been tested for Lyme?

[Doug]

Tried any peptides or anything yet?

[Caller]

I actually just started peptides four days ago. It's really hard to get them here in Canada. They're kind of stingy about them. So I finally found a hopefully reputable place to get them from. My girlfriend's been through these guys for about a year, so she hasn't died yet, so.

[Adam]

Okay.

[Caller]

So, Yeah, I started BPC157 as listening to you guys, and then it has a mix of TB 500 in it.

[Doug]

Okay.

[Caller]

So it's only been. Yeah, today will be day five.

[Sal]

Yeah, I want to give that about a month or two. And then, like. And you tested for Lyme? I had asked that earlier.

[Caller]

Yeah, Many, many moons ago. It did come back positive, but it was. Yeah, it was about 10 years ago or so. And we've Done so many things to work through it, and nothing has ever budged with it. So that's why my naturopath has me on the mycotoxin route, because he thinks that that could be blocking any sort of treatment.

[Sal]

Okay.

[Caller]

But, yeah, so I do have that as a natural, fast standpoint.

If.

If I test here in Canada through, like, a actual medical doctor, I show as a negative.

[Sal]

Yeah, that's hard to. Yeah, you got some. The testing is sometimes not sensitive enough. Well, yeah, I wish I could give you. I know a better answer, but my. My gut feeling is to look for something that's affecting you systemically and not. Not locally. You know, not like it's the joint, but rather, why is my body so inflamed and why am I developing areas of inflammation is where I would look.

[Caller]

Okay. Right. And like, when you mentioned diet, I know that lots of the foods that I'm eating are like an inflammatory, per se, because, like, I. I'm so limited on what I can eat. Right. Like, some days I can eat ground ground beef, like in a spaghetti sauce day or something. And then some days I can barely.

[Sal]

Oh, wow.

[Caller]

I can barely have. Chewing. Chewing that. Like, so lots of times I just try to, you know, choke it down. But yeah, so I am eating a lot of carbs and pastas, stuff like that soup. I get the occasional shaken, but I got so sick of shakes from surgery that I kind of fell off of them. But so it's probably not.

[Sal]

It's probably not a bad thing to avoid common food intolerances. So gluten, dairy, legumes, nightshades. And so you'd stay kind of like fruits, you know, vegetables. Aside from nightshades, I'd stay away from nightshades and meats. And see, only because of the state that you're in, any. Any common intolerance may make things worse, but I. That can't hurt. It can't hurt to go in that direction. Kind of like a paleo style diet.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Sal]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Sal]

Yeah, I'll.

[Caller]

I'll try that.

[Sal]

All right, well, Megan, if you get any. Any more information, I'd love to hear back from you.

[Doug]

Hopefully people watching this too. They might, you know, know somebody or, you know, maybe there's a medical professional watching this that has ideas too. So hopefully it gets out and get you some answers.

[Caller]

Oh, thanks. I appreciate that.

[Sal]

You got it, Megan.

[Doug]

All right.

[Sal]

Thanks for calling.

[Caller]

Awesome. Thank you so much.

[Sal]

You got it. That's tough.

[Adam]

I didn't want to put her in a position on the call when I'VE had clients. This is rare when you get somebody like this that's had. That's like checking all the boxes and they just can't get to the bottom of what it is. I've had experience many. Not many, a handful of times where some of this stuff is related to, like, childhood trauma.

[Sal]

Sure.

[Adam]

And if you have just powered through your life and never really done a lot of. Of work on that, it tends to start to express itself in all these weird things and injuries and symptoms and stuff and autoimmune issues and things that you can't quite get to the bottom of. And so I didn't want to put her on the spot on. On this.

[Sal]

You know what's tough about that, Adam? Because that's. By the way.

[Doug]

That's a component.

[Sal]

By the way. That's not. Woo. There's. Yeah, there's data to support this. You can activate your immune system by. By hating on hitting yourself.

[Adam]

Exactly.

[Sal]

Your immune system starts to identify your body as a threat. And we know this. The data can actually show this. And there's a very strong connection between autoimmune disease and depression anxiety. And not just that they cause depression anxiety, but depression anxiety seem to cause higher rates of autoimmune issue. The problem is when you communicate that the person feels, like, dismissed or like, what are you talking about?

[Adam]

That's why I didn't want to say. And this is what makes what we do a little difficult, because we have this, you know, we have 10 minutes at best. We get to know these people in that short amount of time. And this would be something that, as her and I are training, I would slowly pull on that thread to find out more about childhood, personal life, things that are going on.

[Sal]

So I'll tell a story. I'll tell a specific story. I had a guy that I trained who, his wife came to me first. Then he started training with me. And his body was so sensitive to pain that, like, my first couple sessions, I was shocked. Like, he'd do a row and I'd put my hands on him to kind of move his shoulders, and he'd go, ah. He'd, like, flinch. And I remember thinking, like, this is really odd.

[Doug]

Weird reaction.

[Sal]

And after, like two or three sessions, it was like. And so we'd ask the questions, no illness, no this, no that. But, like, everything hurt. And we had to be very careful. So all I did. And this is back in the day when I. I didn't have a lot of awareness around this. Remember, I had that really great physical therapist that worked in there. So I would do correctional exercise and stuff with him. But over time, what happened was we became friends. He became friends with the other people in the studio. And this is now, looking back, he didn't have a lot of friendships. He was very lonely. It was just like him and his wife, and that's it. He did nothing else but work. And he started kind of coming out of his shell, and his personality changed. He got happier and through that process became way less sensitive. Now, he never got to the point where I get after it, but the difference was dramatic. And I remember I would talk with my co workers about this because I worked with this guy for a few years, and they're like, you know, I wonder if it was just. He just had no. He was lonely. He didn't have any friendships. He had a really tough childhood. We never went to detail, but he would express that, like, I wonder if it was just kind of him opening up. He was so protective of his body and protective. Open up. And the pain. Significant difference in how we reacted. And that stuck with me. That was one of my first experiences with what we're talking about.

[Doug]

Yeah. And I think, too, you brought up even belly breathing. I've had the same experience with a client who was really holding on, really holding on. And the release of it was a crazy emotional experience.

[Sal]

Yeah, I've had that, you know, in

[Doug]

terms of, like, I don't know, maybe getting in there and, like, being able to meditate and, you know, dive in further, you know, that. That's worth investigating.

[Adam]

But I've had, you know, like I said, a handful of people that, like, where I just couldn't get to the bottom of it.

[Sal]

Right.

[Adam]

You know, I couldn't find the professional. I couldn't figure out the thing.

[Doug]

And.

[Adam]

And then something miraculously happened where they had a breakthrough with therapy or they got married and all of a sudden found love.

[Sal]

Yeah.

[Adam]

And then all of a sudden the pain. Pain is gone. And it's like, I didn't do anything different in their workouts or their diet. It was just. There was something circumstantial. There was something going on inside internally that they were either suppressing or holding on to. And many times this is connected to childhood trauma stuff, things like that. And, you know, again, I didn't want to. I didn't. I didn't want her to feel dismissed by that.

[Doug]

Like.

[Sal]

But by the way, the trauma could even simply be this. Maybe there isn't anything in childhood, or they could be. But it could also be this. I have severe jaw Pain, it gets really bad. I have to get surgery. I can't work. It's hard for me to talk. It's hard for me to eat. I have to get another surgery now. I'm not working for two years. I have to get another.

[Doug]

Like that spiral.

[Sal]

Anybody goes through, that. That is traumatic. That is severely traumatic. It changes everything, right?

[Doug]

Our next caller is Nicole from Arizona.

[Sal]

Hi, Nicole.

[Adam]

Hi, Nicole. Hello.

[Caller]

Hi, guys. Thank you so, so much. I seriously appreciate you giving me some time.

[Sal]

Yeah, you got it. How can we help you?

[Caller]

Okay, I'll just read the email. So, hello, my name is Nicole. I'm 25 years old and grew up playing soccer and overall being very active since going to college and not playing soccer, I learned how to go to the gym and got into running mainly. I have always been very into fitness and healthy nutrition, but starting a few years ago, I took it too far and developed anorexia. Since gaining back some weight, I've gotten to a point of the fittest I've ever been, yet almost the least fit because I overtrain and can't seem to find how much I need to fuel my body. I run five times a week and have gotten a Dexa skin and I have 15% body fat and I'm trying to get stronger. I usually get about 30,000 steps every day, which I know it's too much, but I just feel like I have to move and if I don't, then I have to then eat way less. I get answers from most of the total daily energy expenditure results that I should be able to just maintain at 2,200 calories, but sometimes I feel like I could just eat like 4000 calories every day and I'm hungry, but here I shouldn't eat too much and especially not carbs. So anyways, I think I'm doing too much, but would like to know how to make changes to work smarter, not harder, and do the transition to doing less without losing progress with my endurance and low body fat. Thank you guys so, so much again. I really love the podcast.

[Sal]

Yeah, thanks for calling in, hon. This is such. It's so great to see someone your age ask a question like this. And there's some good self awareness here, which gives me a lot of hope for what we want to do with you. Okay, I gotta ask you, do you have regular period or has that been disrupted through the process that you went through through anorexia and the exercise and stuff?

[Caller]

Is that all normal that is actually still disrupted? I probably haven't. I mean, I didn't have it for probably two years, and then after I kind of recovered for a little bit, I got it back a little bit. But then it's then been another two years probably since I've had it.

[Sal]

Yeah. Okay, so I'll give you the plane, like, what's happening? But then let's talk about how we could get there. Okay. You definitely over trained. You're definitely undereating still, for sure.

[Caller]

Cool.

[Sal]

Now we know the hard part is how do we get to a place where this doesn't feel so stressful? There's a couple things you said besides your past, which is obviously giving me a clearer picture, but you said I have to do 30,000 steps or I feel like I have to eat less. Who's forcing you? What do you mean?

[Caller]

I don't even know. I swear for some reason I've. I've always been a rule follower, but I just, like, set these things or, you know, the health world says to do, you know, X or Y, and I take it to the extreme and it's like, but if I don't do my exercise, even if I'm exhausted, then the world is over or whatever it may be.

[Sal]

I get it. I get it. But answer the question. Who is forcing you to do these things?

[Caller]

I mean, it's myself, nobody else.

[Sal]

That's it. And what it probably feels like to you when you're creating the structure and these rules is that it feels like I got my hands around it and I'm controlling things, which can feel calming when things feel out of control or it feels like if I don't have my hands on these things, oh, my God, what's going to happen? So there's a couple ways we could go about this, because I could give you the answers right now, but I don't think it's going to help you. I think you either a needle, a coach to work with you through this process because it's going to be a bit tough, and that's not feasible for you, Nicole, if that's something that's not available just financially for you, I think what I would do with someone like you, somebody who needs a target, is I would point you in a direction that's going to move you the furthest away from this challenge. It's not the perfect target, but it's going to move you away from it. And there's a competitive element which I think sounds like you like. Sounds like you kind of like something aim for and something that's competitive and what I would do. So here's your Two options. Option one, the best is work with a coach. We have coaches here at Mind Pump that we hand pick, so I trust them. Option two is to pursue powerlifting. Powerlifting is going to be your best bet as far as a competition and target, because it's going to. If you're really seeking to get stronger and compete, it's going to move you away from all this other stuff that's a bit damaging. Okay, yeah, go ahead.

[Caller]

Sorry.

[Sal]

No, no, go ahead, go ahead.

[Caller]

I've started to try to, like, strength train, you know, in the gym, but it is like, I feel like I just get, like, lost. Or if I were to, like, imagine just doing strength training, which it's not even just like, strength training, obviously is very difficult, but I'm like, oh, if I don't run and have this huge sweat, then like, yeah, I, you know, didn't get a good workout in, and now I have to eat way less because I didn't burn as many calories or whatever.

[Adam]

It's so not true, though, just so you know. And. And that feeling that you have where you feel like you could eat 4, 000 calories, that's your body's natural signal saying, I need those calories. That's not a bad thing. That's like you go out and you do 30,000 steps in a day, which runs crazy. Yeah, a crazy amount of steps. That's a ridiculous amount. That type of a person doing 30,000 steps a day and running should be eating 4,000 plus calories a day.

[Sal]

Yeah.

[Adam]

And if you're not anywhere near that, the reason why you feel like you're starving is because your body is. And which is also why the period is shut down, is that our body fat percentage is too low. We're pushing way too hard. We're way on the other extreme. We have to come. And this is why Sal is saying the coach is so important, is because this isn't like one or two little just tweaks. This is a process because we have to get on the whole other side. In fact, what it looks like is increasing calories, cutting those steps down, down to under 10,000 steps, and just lifting weights like that is so the opposite of where you're at.

[Sal]

And the coach is going to guide you through that.

[Adam]

And it's real easy for us to sit on our, you know, podcast chairs and tell you that it's another thing to implement that and do that and. And. And the voices in your head that are telling you all these things, and then. And then, heaven forbid you see the scale go up a few pounds and then freak out and think you're going the wrong way, when actually you're building muscle and going the right way. That's where the coach comes in, is the coach is the one who kind of talks you off that ledge every day and goes, nicole, you're doing great. This is perfect. This is right where I want you. Like, oh, we're doing like. Like, that's the real value. It's less of the X's and O's, and it's just that where you're at and where we need to go is. Is. Is. Is a pretty far. Pretty far trek. And getting there is not hard from a physical standpoint. It's hard from a psychological standpoint.

[Sal]

Let me just. Let me just communicate something to you that you may be aware of, but you might not be aware of. This control that you're putting around all these things, it's actually the reverse. It is controlling you. So you are actually out of control. You are being tyrannized by exercise, diet, stress, body image. All these things are controlling you. You're not controlling. As much as you're trying to control it. It's actually controlling you, which probably gives you the sense that you need to control it even more. And so this is kind of like spiral. It's a spiral down. Yeah. So the answer is to do the scary thing, which is to give the control up completely. But the easiest way to do that is to give it to someone else. Now I'm going to paint a couple pictures for you. Here's one. One path is if you keep going down, you're 25, you're young, but you're already. Your period is irregular. You're feeling like, oh, my God, this doesn't feel good.

[Adam]

What did the bone density say on your DEXA scan? Did you see it?

[Sal]

Was your bone density okay?

[Caller]

My bone density was actually okay. My dad also got a dexa, and they told him he was built like a tank. So I think I just have good genetics when it comes to bones.

[Sal]

Good, good. So. So what'll happen if you keep moving down this path is it's gonna get more stressful, more difficult, more challenging, more negative symptoms, and it's gonna feel terrible. So right now, youth is helping protect you a little bit, but if you keep going down this path, it'll be really, really nasty. Now, the other path that we could do right now is you relinquish control to someone you trust. How long have you been listening to our show, by the way?

[Caller]

It's been a couple years now.

[Sal]

Okay, so you like us. You trust us a little bit. You think we know what we're talking? Okay. We have hand picked coaches because there's great coaches out there. Unfortunately, there's a lot of bad ones. The ones that we have are really good. So when you hear us communicate our philosophy around health and fitness and the methods, that's what our coaches do. And they're gonna walk you through this entire process and what you're gonna do is instead of giving up control completely, which is really scary, you're gonna give it to someone else and you're gonna say, okay, I'm just gonna follow what you're saying. Even though it's scary, even though it's uncomfortable. I'm just gonna follow. Follow what you're saying. And then you're going to give them that control. And then the process that that looks like is. It's like wearing. It's like training wheels is eventually you start to trust the process and you don't need to give that control to someone else. Then you're not with a coach and it's totally different. It's a totally different relationship. You don't feel trapped, you don't feel controlled, you feel vibrant. And now this health and fitness is now a vehicle for freedom and not a vehicle for tyranny, which is what you're experiencing.

[Adam]

Nicole, you brought up your dad did the DEXA scan. He did it with you. Is. Do you live at home still or you. Is he. Is he aware of where you're at?

[Caller]

Yeah, I live at home or I finished college and have been at home right now just kind of working a little bit.

[Adam]

And is he. Does he know everything, like as far as the anorexia and what you've gone through?

[Caller]

Yeah, him and my mom, I've never really, like, worked with too many other people. My mom was kind of of my main little superstar, helping me through everything.

[Sal]

So that's wonderful. Do you think a coach is. Is that something that's feasible for you? Would that be something you'd be interested in?

[Caller]

I do think so, because I just. That's my biggest thing is my family is not super fit and healthy. It's. And you know, I kind of grew up in a household where it's like, oh, you know, we could sit on the couch all day, whatever, doesn't matter. You know what, it's totally fine. For some people, my family is the best. But I just. So I feel like I've always lacked trust in the people around me. I'm Like, I have to do the opposite of what they're doing, you know? And so, like, it's just hard for me with, like, anybody to be like, okay, how can I trust that they know exactly what my body needs, even though I'm not even really listening to. To my body by pushing it to the limit. But it's like, it's just that trust kind of thing.

[Sal]

Yeah.

[Adam]

Yeah. Okay, well, we'll take care of you

[Sal]

if you trust us. If you. If you trust us and we handpick these people, I'll have somebody call you today. And this is your best bet. And because of your awareness and your age, I have really high hope. Like, I think you're going to do just great. Yeah, I think you're going to do just great.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Sal]

Yeah. Okay.

[Caller]

Thank you guys so much. I really appreciate it.

[Sal]

You got it.

[Adam]

We'll see you on later calls, Nicole.

[Caller]

Okay. See ya. Bye, guys. Thank you.

[Sal]

Poor, sweet girl. Yeah, that's tough. I mean, you know, it's so. Again, this is when I talk to people, when they have that kind of awareness, the odds are high. Yeah, it's still hard. She's gonna have to do some hard work.

[Doug]

Right.

[Sal]

But the odds are high, especially at her age. At 25, you'd be like, hey, man, I got these issues. Issues, and I need some help.

[Adam]

Oh, yeah, Most people would be. Are in denial right now. Yeah, most people are still in denial

[Sal]

about it, and they just keep going until their body shuts the heck down,

[Adam]

and then they get all kinds of really bad. Well, I mean, she's already having hormonal stuff. Right. Obviously, if her period's been shut down like that.

[Sal]

Oh, yeah.

[Adam]

But early enough, young enough. And it's great that she's got. Her bone density was okay, too, because that's the next thing that you start to see to deteriorate.

[Sal]

That's right.

[Adam]

And so, you know, catch it now and we'll be okay. You know, it's the hardest part to me is that. That the answer is actually really easy.

[Sal]

Like, doing it.

[Adam]

Yeah. It's like, it's like, because you're actually telling somebody who's doing way too much to. To do less, Back off, eat some more. You know what I'm saying? Like, and. And that seems you would. The average person listening is just like.

[Doug]

It's because you're just gonna get in their own way.

[Sal]

You can't know it just in your head. She knows it in her head.

[Adam]

Yeah.

[Sal]

She doesn't feel it. Yeah. What she feels is the opposite. And that drives that what your actions are. You can try going from your head all day long. What it would look like for Nicole is she would be like, okay, cool, I'm going to do the steps. And then she feels so strongly against it that she would just stop. But the coach is there to. You give that to them and you follow them, and there's going to be some stumble. She's for sure going to not do what the coach says for a little bit and go back and maybe struggle and argue. But eventually it'll get to the point where she knows it. Where she actually knows it on the inside, not just in her head.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Our next caller is Alyssa from California.

[Sal]

Hi, Alyssa. Hello.

[Caller]

Hey. Oh, my gosh. I can't believe I'm talking to you guys in person. This is so weird. I listen to you every single day. My kids even know who you are. When I told them I was coming on, they were like, oh, my gosh, it's the mic.

[Sal]

Guys, thank you so much for calling in.

[Adam]

How long you been in Oakdale for?

[Caller]

I've been here for about three years. I'm originally from Oklahoma, but I moved to the bay area, like, 22 years ago, so I. I was, like, in Pleasanton, Dublin. I don't know if you guys know, are familiar with Bay Area.

[Adam]

Very familiar with all that. We're in the Bay Area, so we know all that. And I grew up in Oakdale.

[Caller]

Oh, did you?

[Adam]

Yes, yes.

[Caller]

Oh, that's awesome.

[Sal]

Yeah.

[Adam]

Where are you at?

[Doug]

Where.

[Adam]

What part of town are you at?

[Caller]

I'm kind of over on the east side. And I don't know if you know where, like, Save Mart is. In the old Kmart. Yeah, I'm kind of over in that area.

[Adam]

Yeah, My sister lived back over there for a while.

[Sal]

Right over where the.

[Adam]

With the junior high is back over there, right?

[Caller]

Yes.

Yeah.

The junior high is actually in my backyard, so.

[Adam]

Okay.

[Caller]

I can hear the band practicing every morning, so that's fun.

[Sal]

Well, how can we help you?

[Caller]

Well, I just. Thank you so much, first of all, because you guys have literally, like, changed the game for me. Like, in the sea of, like, strength training and nutrition, health information, like, you guys, guys keep it real. And I trust you more than pretty much anybody on the Internet, because it's just. It gets so confusing and overwhelming. But I'll just start off. My story is kind of complicated and long, so I'll just kind of shorten it for you. I'm 40, almost 46. I have dealt with anorexia nervosa. Pretty much my Whole life, like since I was 10. So I've, it's been a battle I've, you know, carried forever, but been in treatment multiple times, in and out. Never really helped me. They'd put me in, you know, feed me 4, 000 calories plus gain a bunch of weight, come home, feel gross, lose it again, over and over. What really helped me the most, I think was When I was 13, my dad introduced me to strength training. He was always into bodybuilding, weightlifting, all of that. He took me to the gym and changed the game for me. I instantly fell in love like it was back in the 90s so girls weren't really like in the gym doing like, you know, bodybuilding moves. And I was in there like, you know, back squatting and you know, awesome, all, all that stuff. And I just, it changed how I, my relationship with food and my body because for the first time, food wasn't scary. It was something I needed to like get strong and build my body up and I wanted to get stronger and it was amazing. Fast forward. I became personal trainer in college. Loved just was something that, you know, it kind of cured me from that anorexia for a while. Got married, had a kid, had twins, had another kid and it just kind of, I have, I'm a mom of four kids, so, you know, going to the gym is not that easy when you're a mom with four little kids. So I stopped going to the gym, kind of in a bad marriage, just fell back in the old ways, the anorexia and just kind of battled up and down for a year. So fast forward. Here I am now and single mom, got four kids, they're all teenagers and I just, I, I'm kind of in. On my way back to recovering again. I'm, I'm not at a healthy weight. I know I need to gain weight, but I've lost a lot of muscle in all my years of restricting. And I'm sarcopenic, like extreme. Like I have zero muscle mass right now and I, I want to get back into strength training because I know how important important muscle is, especially getting older. I don't want to be in my old age. Fall break A hip ended up in the hospital. And you know, I mean I listen to like Gabrielle Lyon, I listen to you guys, you know, and like the, you know, muscle's important and for me it's never like I don't have body dysmorphia. Like, I don't like, I know I'm way too skinny and I, I just, I want to Feel strong again. Like my kids have never seen me strong. And I miss that feeling. Like I can't even go to Costco by myself and get stuff because I can't lift anything. You know, I have to get my teenagers to lift Amazon boxes off the porch. And I want to be strong again, but I don't know where to start because I haven't lifted, like I said, since my 18 year old, you know, before she was born, so. And I just feel so weak. Like I, I can barely do anything. Like, I really have no muscle mass. Like, so I just, I wanted to get you guys input on where to start. Like, I feel so intimidated. I have gym access. I have a gym right down the street. But I'm intimidated to go, you know, like with my personal training history and everything, I kind of know what to do. I just. Where I'm at now physically, I don't know. I don't know where to go. I'm lost. So that's why, that's why I wanted to, you know, I trust you guys and I just kind of wanted to see where you would, you know, where you would put me.

[Sal]

Yeah. God bless you. I think we can help you with this. Did the, if we can. If, if it's okay, I'd like to ask you a few more questions.

[Caller]

Of course. Yeah.

[Sal]

Did it, did the, did this start with body image issues or was it a control thing when you started the, the relationship with, with anorexia?

[Caller]

You know, I think it was,

I

think it was kind of a little bit of both. It was. Started with body image and then it turned into a control thing. I never had any, like, you know, I was typical kid, I was like, I didn't think anything. I didn't think about my body. You know, I just kind of ate and did, you know, did my thing and had a, had a friend, like, poke my belly when I was, I still remember it like she poked my belly. Oh, you've got a pot belly. And it was the first time I was like, like, oh, should I be thinking about my body? And then that kind of cascaded into, you know, a diet and restricting and then it just went from there and then from there it kind of became a control thing. Like in times of stress. That's kind of when the anorexia rears its head. It's like, this is my way to kind of control something in my life because everything else is out of control. And so, you know, so, yeah, it's,

[Sal]

it's that, it's, it's that comforting friend it is.

[Caller]

Yeah. It's no dysfunctional friend.

[Sal]

Exactly. It's no different than somebody going to alcohol for that, you know, that kind of.

[Adam]

That relief or great awareness around all.

[Sal]

Yeah. And it sounds like you're ready to care for yourself.

[Caller]

Absolutely. Yeah.

[Sal]

Okay.

[Doug]

That's exciting.

[Sal]

So here, I'll give you some advice. So I totally hear you with the intimidation with the gym. And so I think a step by step approach is the best. I think with a good routine that you could do at home to start with would be great to build some strength and confidence before going back to the gym. Do you have anything at home like dumbbells, suspension trainer, resistance bands, anything like that?

[Caller]

Yeah, I've got. I've got a set of 15 pound dumbbells and I've got a 45 pound kettlebell.

[Sal]

Great. Okay. Okay, great. I think Map Starter would be a good program to start with.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Sal]

Okay. I also think MAP Suspension would be another. A good program. And what I'm going to do. We don't normally do this. Alyssa, you don't have a suspension trainer.

[Caller]

I don't know.

[Sal]

We're going to send you a suspension trainer and I'm also going to send you Map suspension.

[Caller]

Thank you so much. Oh, my gosh.

[Sal]

So you have two options. You'll have Map Starter and MAP Suspension. And they're both great at home programs.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Sal]

I think doing a little bit daily is a good idea in combination with some of the changes in diet. Have you made any dietary changes?

[Caller]

Not really. I'm kind of. I'm kind of stuck right now. I'm like a very low calorie. I'm about 1500 calories, but I'm so slowly gaining on that. I think I've suppressed my metabolism so much. And because I don't have any muscle, like, I just, you know, I barely have any. I just feel like I can't eat without, you know, really gaining weight. And I know I need to eat to build.

[Sal]

Yeah.

[Caller]

To build any muscle.

[Sal]

So, you know all the stuff up here. Yeah, but we got to get you to feel, feel it. Because if you do the right things, but you don't feel right about it, it's gonna be very difficult to stick to. So. And how do we get to. How do we get there? You're gonna have to not weigh yourself. So I'm gonna need you to get rid of your scale. I mean, not, I mean, literally get rid of it. Not have a scale in your house. So throw it away and not study yourself in the mirror. In fact, ignore your reflection. In the mirror because it's gonna mess with you. And you're gonna have to consciously think about how you feel and think about your strength. What I mean by how you feel is not like, I feel gross, but try to pick out the strength, the energy and the mobility. And you're gonna have to consciously think about those things because your nature is to not. Your nature is going to be to think about how I look the scale and am I feeling fatter, do I feel bloated, do my stomach is full. Okay, so this is gonna be. You have to retrain your focus. What you focus on is what you see. And there's lots and lots of data to support this. So several times a day I want you, you're gonna have to think about strength, think about energy, think about how much weight I'm moving, mobility, and just focus on that. And when you find yourself thinking about the other stuff instead of not thinking about that, good luck. It's like, don't think about a zebra. Now you're thinking about a zebra. Is you're gonna have to think about strength, think about mobility, think about energy, and then that slowly should get you to this point where you start to feel confident and go back to the gym. Diet wise, you're gonna have to completely ignore your systems, your feeling of satiety and fullness. So because your relationship to that right now, if I tell you to listen to your body from that standpoint, you're gonna keep eating little. So you're gonna kind of have to eat in an uncomfortable way. So you have to kind of seek that out a little bit. Like, I'm going to eat until I'm really full and then I'm going to eat until I'm really full. Now, working with a coach would be very beneficial for someone like you to kind of help you through this process. You can kind of outsource some of that trust. I don't know how feasible that is for you. I know you're about an hour and a half away from us. I'd like to invite you into our studio just to meet with us. You can listen to a live episode, I can introduce you some of our trainers. And even if you were to visit us every other month and meet a trainer here, I think that would be beneficial. Or you could do something more consistent where you work with one of our coaches virtually and they can kind of help through this process. I think that would really, really be helpful.

[Caller]

Yeah, that would be awesome.

[Sal]

But I'm going to send you those two programs. I'm going to mail you a suspension trainer. And then if you'd like, I can have one of our coaches call you and then see if any of that works for you. To be able to kind of walk you through this process.

[Caller]

That would be so great. Thank you so much. Because I just feel. I just feel kind of lost right now, you know, and. But that would be. That would be a game changer. So I just. Oh, my gosh. Thank you so much.

[Adam]

You're actually in a great place. Mentally, you're in the right place.

[Sal]

You've.

[Adam]

You've. Self awareness is incredible. You know where you need to go. You're sounds like you're willing to outsource that to somebody else, guide you through that process. We'll take care of you. We'll take care of you.

[Caller]

Thank you so much.

[Doug]

You're gonna do great.

[Caller]

I do. I just want to be. I just want to feel healthy, you know? Like, it's not about, like, body image anymore. It's about, like, just being strong and healthy for my future and for my kids and to be a good example, you know, I've got two daughters, and, you know, I want to show them what it's like to be a strong woman. And, you know, I don't want to be the same this weak little thing anymore, you know, that's badass.

[Adam]

That's badass. And that's an awesome.

[Sal]

Alyssa, if I had one of your daughters on here and I asked them, how much do you love your mom? What would they say?

[Caller]

Oh, man, I think they love me a lot.

Yeah.

[Sal]

I want you to look through their eyes at yourself and try to care for yourself like they would. And it's going to be counter to what you used to. But I think that'll help direct you in the meantime.

[Adam]

That's why I love you.

[Sal]

How do my daughters think of me?

[Adam]

I love that. I love that being your goal. I love that. It's. It's not. It's. It's a selfless.

[Sal]

It's you.

[Adam]

I want to show my daughters. That is what's going to motivate, that's going to put you through the uncomfortable times of when a trainer tells you, I need you to eat 2,000 calories, and you're like, oh, my God, that feels so much, or I'm stuffed. I don't like it. And, like, if you just keep remembering why you're doing this, you're going to be fine.

[Sal]

That's right.

[Adam]

You're going to get through this. This will be good.

[Caller]

Absolutely. I've got my 18 year old daughter. She's not going to. She's taking a gap year and she's here with me all the time and, and she asked me the other day, she's like, mom, we should start going to the gym. We should. She's really interested in it. So I think that would be motivation too, you know.

[Sal]

Hell yeah.

[Caller]

Include this process.

[Sal]

Include them in this process. That support is going to help so much. I'm going to have someone reach out to you. In the meantime, we're going to mail you the suspension trainer. You'll get the two programs and then I hope to see you. I know we're not too far from you, so I hope we get a chance to meet you and you can, can come.

[Caller]

Oh, I would love to come up and visit. I, I would love that.

[Sal]

Okay.

[Adam]

Awesome, awesome. We'll set it up.

[Caller]

Lisa, thank you so much, guys. I really appreciate it. You guys are just the best.

Thank you.

[Sal]

Thank you.

[Caller]

Thanks for everything you do. Take care.

[Sal]

All right, well, I'm glad. That's, that's, that's good motivation.

[Adam]

Great attitude. Great attitude.

[Doug]

Perfect place.

[Adam]

Great place. Wow, man. We got two today. Like, Yep. You know, again, it seems so like the, the simple answer, jump to 2000-2300 calories, lift weights three times a day or three times a week and like solves everything. But it's like that is to get there.

[Sal]

Any severe challenge, by the way, for people listening right now who are like, oh, it's just do this.

[Adam]

Yeah.

[Sal]

It's not, you know, you got your stuff. Everybody does that thing. You can't stop. And the answer is stop doing it and you can't. Yeah. That's what they're dealing with. And it's very difficult, but there is, there is a light at the end of the tunnel. It's just a process. Yeah.

[Doug]

Our next caller is Sarah from Colorado.

[Sal]

Hi, Sarah.

[Adam]

Hi, Sarah.

[Sal]

How are you? I'm good.

[Caller]

Thanks for having me on.

[Sal]

How can we help you? I'm just going to read my question

[Caller]

because I'm really nervous. My heart's racing. So thanks so much for taking my question. I've been listening over the past year and pretty much binging the podcast on my daily walks.

[Sal]

I've learned a ton from you for a little context. I'm 41, a full time working mom of two boys and a PE teacher, so I'm active throughout the day. Between my job and walking, I average

[Caller]

around 15,000 steps per day.

[Sal]

Fitness has always been a part of my life. I was a professional ballet dancer for a time. Later, a collegiate cyclist with a very endurance heavy background. And I also spent years doing CrossFit

[Caller]

at this stage of life. I found that doing three full body workouts per week and walking gives me

[Sal]

the best return on investment.

[Caller]

I feel strong, consistent and not burnt

[Sal]

out, which is important to me right now.

[Caller]

My question is about VO2 max and longevity.

[Sal]

I keep hearing it described as one of the strongest predictors of long term health, which makes me wonder if I should be doing more intentional cardio or an interval work.

[Caller]

At the same time, I'm pretty much

[Sal]

burnt out on structured endurance training and

[Caller]

honestly don't enjoy HIIT unless it's totally necessary.

[Sal]

From your perspective, for someone who is

[Caller]

already strength training consistently and highly active

[Sal]

day to day, is there a meaningful added benefit to deliberately training VO2 max for longevity or is it often overemphasized

[Caller]

compared to just keeping strong, maintaining muscle

[Sal]

and staying active with lots of walking and daily movements as we get older?

[Adam]

I love how you put that last sentence.

[Sal]

Totally.

[Adam]

That's exactly how I feel.

[Sal]

Yeah. So there's generally. Yeah, there's benefits to improving VO2 max through some HIIT training for longevity, specifically for you. No, you hate it. And I know your background. Professional ballet dancer, cyclists, CrossFit. You probably had a relationship and maybe you even struggle with this a little now with fitness where it was like beating yourself up and you're probably over it. You're probably over it. I don't want to do that to myself anymore. And I think training hit is going to probably move you in an unhealthy place.

[Adam]

You're in a. You're in a beautiful place.

[Sal]

You're crushing it.

[Adam]

Yeah, you're in a beautiful place. You're right where I. Someone with your past and what you've done, where you're right. You're right where I am.

[Sal]

It's not going to improve your longevity for you. I think it would make things worse.

[Adam]

And by the way, if you ever like we. Let's say we were training together for years and you're like, you know, I'm just curious, you could spend two weeks and improve VO2 max dramatically. Like literally, you can, like cardiovascular endurance comes back like this.

[Sal]

Not to mention building muscle automatically increases VO2 max. People don't know that. Yeah, it automatically does because of the oxygen consumption of muscle mass. By the way, you like strength training. You want to get.

[Caller]

I love it.

[Sal]

You want to do. You want to get a little VO2 max. Do a few weeks where you're resting 30 seconds between sets of squats.

[Adam]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay.

[Sal]

Do 15 reps of squats. Rest 30 seconds. Go do another 15 reps. Boom, you're set.

[Adam]

Yeah.

[Sal]

If you really want. But here's the important thing. For someone like you, Sarah, with your background, make sure it's something you enjoy, because your past. Because I've trained ballet, people don't appreciate professional ballet. Incredibly challenging and also very body focused. It's one of the more difficult spaces to come out of for women. Some of the most difficult clients ever worked with.

[Adam]

I love where you're at.

[Sal]

Yeah. So I'm like, enjoy it. So just go and enjoy it.

[Adam]

You walking and moving as much as you're walking and moving, you're killing it. Three days of full body training. I mean, we are in the sweet spot right now.

[Sal]

Now, here's the real question. How's your relationship with, with diet? Because I know that's the big struggle with people with that background.

[Caller]

I feel like I've dodged that bullet somehow.

[Sal]

Yeah.

[Caller]

I love, I love.

[Sal]

I mean, I considered going to culinary school.

[Caller]

I'm.

[Sal]

I love food.

[Caller]

I feel very, very fortunate, especially. I mean, even cycling, people can get

[Sal]

weird with that stuff.

[Caller]

No, I feel like I eat pretty well.

[Sal]

Good. You're fine.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Sal]

You're not just fine. You're killing it.

[Adam]

Yeah.

[Sal]

Don't overthink it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what can happen a lot of times to people is they go on fitness social media, and then they start hearing all these little studies and this and that, and then they start questioning things and, and, but the way you asked your question, it sounds like you kind of know the answer and you want a little confirmation you're perfect.

[Adam]

Yeah, no, I, I. 15,000 steps, three full body workouts, eat balanced meals.

[Sal]

That's longevity right there.

[Adam]

Yeah, yeah.

[Doug]

Great.

[Adam]

That's. That's where I want you. I don't want you moving out of that.

[Caller]

I love that.

[Sal]

Perfect. Yeah.

[Adam]

Killing it. You're killing it.

[Caller]

Thank you.

[Sal]

Yeah, yeah. Good job. Stay the course.

[Caller]

Thanks so much.

[Sal]

Thanks, Sarah. Yeah, that's.

[Adam]

That's a beautiful spot.

[Sal]

Yeah.

[Adam]

And you know what?

[Sal]

Again, so here's why. This is why it's so important, like being a coach and a trainer, you work with different people. If this was a general question, would a person get some longevity benefits to adding something to improve VO2 max? So long as it's programmed properly, blah, blah, blah. Yeah. Generally you'd be like, yeah, yes, for, for her. No, not with your background. Not with the fact that you already said you hate it and you don't want to get burnt out. It's going to make you more unhealthy. It's going to contribute to worse longevity, not better longevity. This is where the nuance is really important.

[Adam]

And you also, I mean you want to increase that. Go do 15 rest, short rest periods.

[Sal]

You got it.

[Adam]

And you will absolutely do that. Or you decide one month, you're going to do it for two weeks, two weeks, get after it and then get right back to your and watch. I mean this we, this is what I don't like about studies like that and the way she phrased the last sentence, I can't, I don't remember how exactly how she said it, but she said it like beautifully, like in the context of where she's at, you know, is it, is it often over emphasized compared to just keeping strong, maintaining muscle and staying active with lots of walking and daily movement as we get older? Yeah, yeah, it's like that. You stay strong, you move, you stay mobile. Move and do that. That is a way better win for sure.

[Sal]

All day, 100%. Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram Mind Pump Media. We'll see you there. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump.

[Doug]

If your goal is to build and

[Sal]

shape your body, dramatically improve your health

[Doug]

and energy and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB super [e-mail]

[Sal]

the RGB Super Bundle includes maps, Anabolic maps, performance and Maps Aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming

[Doug]

designed by Sal, Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs with detailed workout blueprints

[Adam]

and over 200 videos.

[Doug]

The RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price.

[Sal]

The RGB Super Bundle has a full

[Adam]

30 day money back guarantee and you

[Sal]

can get it now. Plus other valuable free [e-mail] if you

[Doug]

enjoy this show, please share the love

[Sal]

by leaving us a five star rating and review on itunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and

[Adam]

until next time, this is Mind Pump.

[Sal]

Everyone deserves to be connected. T Mobile and US Cellular are joining forces. Our networks are coming together bringing more T Mobile coverage all over the country. Switch to T Mobile and save up to 20% versus Verizon by getting built in benefits they leave out. Check the math@t mobile.com Switch and now T Mobile is available in a US cellular store near you bigger network. The combination of T Mobiles and US Cellular's network footprints will enhance the T Mobile Network's coverage savings versus comparable Verizon plans, plus the costs of options, benefits, plan features and taxes. And fees vary. Savings with three plus lines include third free line free via monthly bill credits. Credit stop if you cancel any lines. Qualifying credit required.

[Adam]

Safeway and Albertsons have made saving easier than ever with great savings on family favorites this week. 16 ounce sweet strawberries are two for $5 member price. And don't miss the incredible deal on Signature select boneless skinless chicken breast value packs for 2.97 per pound limit. One plus medium avocados or mangoes are five for $5 member price. Fresh and delicious savings for every meal. Hurry in. These deals won't last. Visit safewayoralbertsons.com for more deals and ways to save.