Daring Creativity. Daring Forever.

Episode: "Be the River, Not the Rock" (Oliver Jeffers Bonus Episode)
Host: Radim Malinic
Release Date: June 26, 2025

Introduction

In this bonus episode of Daring Creativity, host Radim Malinic revisits his recent interview with acclaimed artist and author Oliver Jeffers. This special edition focuses on extracting and delving deeper into standout moments from their conversation, providing listeners with enriched insights into Jeffers' creative philosophy and practices.

Artistic Stubbornness and the River vs. Rock Metaphor

The Metaphor Explained

One of the pivotal moments in the discussion centers around Jeffers' insightful metaphor comparing artistic stubbornness to being a rock in a river.

Oliver Jeffers [00:36]: "There's other ways to go about getting whatever it is that you want to accomplish, accomplished. [...] If you look at a rock that's in the middle of a river, it will eventually get eroded away, whereas the river will find the path through the sea. It'll find its own way. And so I've kind of taken up this mantra to myself of be the river, not the rock."

Host's Reflection

Radim expands on this metaphor, emphasizing its relevance to creative professionals who often grapple with rigid thinking and perfectionism.

Radim Malinic [01:10]: "When you think about it, many artists fall into a trap of rigid thinking. [...] Oliver's river metaphor teaches adaptability without compromise."

Key Insights

• Adaptability Over Stubbornness: Unlike a rock that resists change and eventually succumbs to erosion, the river symbolizes the ability to navigate obstacles creatively while maintaining one's core purpose.

• Psychological Implications: Stubbornness can stem from underlying fears—fear of change, failure, or vulnerability. Embracing the river mindset fosters fluid persistence, enabling creatives to persist intelligently without being rigid.

Persistence and Radical Responsibility in Creativity

Embracing Responsibility

Jeffers elaborates on the importance of taking radical responsibility for one's creative journey, moving beyond mere work ethic.

Oliver Jeffers [02:45]: "You only get out what you put in. If you want something, nobody is going to do it for you, you have to do it yourself."

Host's Commentary

Radim parallels Jeffers' philosophy with his own experiences, highlighting the necessity of proactive creation over passive waiting.

Radim Malinic [03:12]: "Instead of waiting for someone to discover his children's books, he researched the industry, created a book prototype, printed hundred copies and systematically send them to publishers. He didn't wait for permission or perfect circumstances. He created his own opportunities."

Notable Quotes

• Jeffers on Effort: "You only get out what you put in."
• Radim on Proactivity: "We are the ones driving our own destiny."

Key Insights

• Self-Reliance: Successful creatives don't rely solely on external validation or luck. They take deliberate actions to advance their careers.

• Overcoming the Victim Mentality: By rejecting excuses related to lack of connections or privilege, creatives can focus on what they can control— their efforts and strategies.

The Nature of the Creative Process: Embracing Imperfections

Embracing Unpredictability

Jeffers discusses how his creative works seldom match his initial visions, emphasizing the importance of reacting to the process rather than rigidly adhering to a preconceived plan.

Oliver Jeffers [05:43]: "No piece of art that I've ever made [...] has actually ever turned out the way that I thought it would in my head before I put pen to paper or brush to canvas."

Host's Reflection

Radim connects this to the common struggle with perfectionism and the paralysis it can cause in the creative process.

Radim Malinic [06:23]: "How many times did you find yourself trying to nail something in a shape? [...] Instead, you end up somewhere just like the river."

Key Insights

• Dynamic Creativity: The creative process is inherently fluid, requiring artists to adapt and evolve their work organically.

• Overcoming Perfectionism: Accepting that initial visions may change helps creatives navigate challenges and discover unexpected strengths in their work.

Evolution of Artistic Style: Neat vs. Messy Art

Personal Evolution in Art

The conversation delves into how Jeffers' artistic preferences have shifted over time, reflecting his personal growth and changing life circumstances.

Oliver Jeffers [07:50]: "I used to really like neat art, but now I like messy art [...] Because I have control and predictability to some degrees. I'm missing chaos and so that's why I'm resonating to that."

Host's Analysis

Radim interprets this shift as a manifestation of evolving psychological needs and life stages, highlighting the authenticity it brings to creative expression.

Radim Malinic [08:33]: "Instead of trying to create what we think we should like or what's currently popular, it's about understanding what genuinely resonates with us right now in our current stages of life."

Key Insights

• Authentic Expression: Artistic styles naturally evolve as creators respond to their internal and external environments.

• Psychological Reflection: Preferences in art often mirror personal journeys, with shifts indicating deeper emotional and experiential changes.

Conclusion and Key Takeaways

This bonus episode with Oliver Jeffers offers profound insights into the essence of creativity. The conversation underscores:

1. Adaptability Over Rigidity: Embracing the river metaphor encourages creatives to remain flexible and persistent without compromising their core vision.

2. Radical Responsibility: Taking proactive steps and creating one's own opportunities is crucial for sustained creative success.

3. Embracing the Creative Process: Accepting imperfections and the unpredictable nature of creation can lead to richer and more authentic work.

4. Evolving Artistic Expression: Personal growth and life changes naturally influence artistic styles, fostering genuine and resonant creations.

Radim Malinic and Oliver Jeffers provide a compelling narrative that challenges conventional notions of perfection in creativity, advocating instead for a journey marked by resilience, responsibility, and authentic self-expression.

Listen to the full episode here to immerse yourself in more of these transformative conversations and discover how to dare to create in your own life.