← Daring Forever (Find your Extraordinary)
Daring Forever (Find your Extraordinary)
Creative leadership and authentic storytelling - Kerry Laster
00:58:41
Loading summary
Transcript55 lines
- [00:01]
Radi Malinich
Before we start today's episode, let me tell you about my latest adventure. Introducing Lux Coffee Co. A speciality grade coffee company inspired by creativity and creatives. The debut range is sourced from some of the best farms in Brazil, Peru, Colombia and Africa offering beautiful flavors and notes. Our single origins and house blends are roasted every Monday for next day shipping. Visit luxcoffee.co.uk and use code podcast for 15% off your first order. And yes, there's exceptional merge too. Lux Coffee Company is where art meets exceptional coffee.
- [00:50]
Kerry Laster
And the thing you learn from really good coaches is like how they get the best out of everyone on the team. Like really good coaches and you realize that it's an individual thing. I can't just go, everybody's going to get inspired by this thing. Everybody's going to want to do this. I have to figure out how to motivate each person and also setting the temperature for what the room is. When I got to the place of me being creative lead, the first thing is I don't have an ego. I'm not the smartest person in the room. I. I am interested in making the best work possible. I want to make the best work.
- [01:31]
Radi Malinich
Welcome to Mindful Creative Podcast, a show about understanding how to deal with the highs and lows of creative lives. My name is Radi Malinich and creativity changed my life. But it also nearly killed me. In this season, inspired by my book of the same title, I am talking to some of the most celebrated figures in the creative industry. In our candid conversations, my guests share their experiences and how they overcame their challenges and struggles, how they learned to grow as creatives. A creative career in the 21st century can be overwhelming. I wanted to capture these honest and transparent conversations that might help you find that guiding light in your career. Thank you for joining me on this episode and taking the first or next step towards regaining control of your creative life. You ready? My guest today is an award winning director, designer and writer with nearly two decades of experience. His work is driven by engagement and loyalty as well as deep understanding of culture and storytelling. Abruptly now with Southern Heart, he specializes in branding, crafting viral campaigns and creating powerful and engaging experiences. In this in depth conversation, we talk about the importance of authenticity in creative work, finding inspiration through personal curation and applying sports mentality to creative leadership. It's my pleasure to introduce Kerry Laster. Hey Kerry, welcome to the show. How are you doing today?
- [03:12]
Kerry Laster
I'm good, I'm good. Thank you so much for having me. Glad to be here and talk to You.
- [03:17]
Radi Malinich
I'm truly excited to have a like minded soul on the show. For those who have may not have heard of you before, how would you introduce yourself?
- [03:24]
Kerry Laster
I am a creative director and a creative strategist. I think that's the best way to describe me. I'm also an owner of Ashiba. I'm a father of a little girl who talks a lot and asked a lot of questions. I am a Brooklynite with a southern heart because I am from Georgia.
- [03:41]
Radi Malinich
Fantastic. Fatsheba. Let's talk about your work for a little bit. How did that come about? Because I know there was a background where you were doing your thing and you were working with other people and then you come together.
- [03:51]
Kerry Laster
I was fortunate for all the years that I've been doing this, working independently prior that I would find myself running into certain groups of creatives. We collaborate on things, we find some synergy and then we'd find ourselves running into each other again on another project. And it just became a thing where it was like, okay, as we keep running into each other, we're sharing ideas, we're sharing ways that we would love to approach something. You've had the opportunity, we were going to build our thing. If we were going to come at it differently, this is what we would do. And you have enough of those conversations and you feel like the universe keeps putting you in front of people that you're like, why don't we just make our own thing? Why don't we just be intentional with working together? And that's how it started. So it's still this amazing group of people that we get to collaborate with and we make things and you come up with their own ideas and then we get to take it and work with our different clients and partners to build stuff for them.
- [04:49]
Radi Malinich
Take me back to Georgia Take me back to your roots. What was the first encounter of creativity? What was the inspiration for your work and for your beginnings?
- [04:59]
Kerry Laster
That's pretty easy. So I'm from South Georgia. So I'm from like the bottom part of Georgia, from a town, a city called Valdosta, Georgia, probably about an hour and a half from Tallahassee, Florida. And when I was growing up, my thoughts were the things that I were looking at were things that spoke to adventure and me being able to express myself and how can I have an impact on the world? So that started with me in journalism. I thought I would just be a writer. I still write quite a bit. As you're a creative director, you spend a lot of time writing. And so I thought that would be my vehicle. And then one day, it's like a Sunday afternoon, I happened to be turning on television, and it's hbo, and they're showing this documentary called Half Past Autumn. And it was Gordon Parks documentary. I had never heard of him, had no idea who he was at all. And I just literally happened to turn on when it was coming on at the beginning, and I watched it. It changed my life. Like, it changed my life. I had no idea that it was possible to be a photographer and to make films and to write and to be an artist. I very much, at that point in time, had only been exposed to needing to be one thing and that being it. The idea of the arts and, like, how to translate that into a real career was something I didn't know. And so when I saw this person who looked like me, who came from a background that I could understand, who didn't have formal training, he didn't have a bunch of, like, connections. It was just him making work and experimenting and trying something and then being multifaceted. It just spoke to me in a way that it was like, okay, I want to do that. I want to do everything that he's doing and then some. Then I started trying to figure that out. I love photography. Still do. So I was taking pictures. I was trying to figure out how would I do films. So I'm in school, being a journalism major and a film major, and I'm trying to, like, navigate that. And then it was like, my passion is film. And then I'm like, okay, it's about time to graduate, or I'm a junior. So I'm like, all right, graduation's coming. And I went looking around at people going, oh, yeah, you gotta have reels, and that's what you need in order to get work. And I went, oh, that requires me to have the script. I have to work with a team. It's gonna take multiple people. And I was like, oh, how do I get my work out there? How do I get in the industry? I just wanted to get in the industry so that I could get started trying to prove myself, and I could get started trying to get opportunities to advance, get opportunities to showcase these other talents that I have. What's the quickest way that I could get in? And I went, oh, design. I can make a portfolio by myself. I could take a couple of ideas and put them together in a site or in a PDF and share that, and that would be enough to get me in the room, because the goal for me was just getting in the room. I knew that I want to do all these other things, I want to create all this other work, but I just need to get in the room. I'm from the small town in Georgia. I just need someone to give me a shot. So what's the best way I can do it? Films are going to take me a while. I don't have the big budget that everyone else has. So here comes design.
- [08:13]
Radi Malinich
So what did you put in your portfolio that got you in the room? What did you do?
- [08:19]
Kerry Laster
So here's what happened. I know nothing about Photoshop. I know nothing about Illustrator. So I need to go learn the program. So then I'm in college and I'm like most broke college kids. I went and got a bootleg version of Adobe. What college kid has the money? So I got it and I had a laptop that really couldn't handle the ram. And I said, I'm going to give myself six months with each program. And I went through each program and I spent six months and the six months of me learning the buttons because I knew the difference between functionally knowing how to use the program and then being able to execute my taste. So I went, okay, I'm going to take six months. I'm just going to learn the buttons. I'm going to start at ground zero. I bought one book from the bookstore that was like a ma. It was like an Adobe Master book. And it had these different artists, each software, they had someone else who'd made a thing. And they gave you steps back in the day when you actually had to look at the book to figure out how to do a thing. So I went home and I spent six months in each program. It was very hard. And I showed up every day trying to figure out how to, like, make. How to emulate what these people are doing. And then I said, once I know the buttons, it's going to take me at least three months before I'm able to then make something from scratch. And then that became the next challenge. How do I do something?
- [09:41]
Radi Malinich
Quite admiring the discipline that you've given yourself six months. It's a quite sort of a defined space of time. And as a college kid, that's obviously find a way to actually get the programs. How did you discipline yourself? How did you actually say, I want to show up every day? Because at that age, you either want stuff or you get easily distracted by everything around you. So how was it you wanting to be in the room that drove you so much, or.
- [10:06]
Kerry Laster
Yeah.
- [10:07]
Radi Malinich
How did you make it happen?
- [10:08]
Kerry Laster
I wanted. I really wanted to make it. And I was fortunate that being in Georgia, I was exposed to a lot of musicians. Like a lot of musicians. I spent a lot of time going back and forth to Atlanta because I had family there. And I became really good friends with a lot of producers. And the discipline that musicians and those kind of artists have, that every day they have to be making something. Every day they're trying to get better. Every day they're trying to advance and they're comparing notes with each other. They're like, I made this thing. And I shared with him, what do you think? I saw that and went, that's what it's going to take in order for me to make it. Like, I'm not going to be able to skip the work necessary. I'm also not going to be able to skip paying dues. And while I'm in college and it's really cute to be broke and everyone accepts it when you're in college and you're broke, when you're out of college, it stops being cute. If this is the time that I'm really going to be broke and I'm going to take the really crappy jobs and all of that stuff, then this is where I have really the most time to just focus on getting better. I'm going to take every day to try to understand this program a little bit more. I have no one who can show me how to do it, so I'm just going to dive in. And I looked at them and got a lot of inspiration for what happens when you show up every day trying to get that 1% better. And then eventually one day, I knew how to make a circle in Photoshop on my and knew how to change the background without flipping through pages. It's like slowly Illustrator, I started to figure out how to make the shapes make a face. And those little wins also propelled me to dig deeper into trying to be more disciplined.
- [11:50]
Radi Malinich
How fondly do you look back and how do you compare it to the way you work now?
- [11:56]
Kerry Laster
I look at it with a lot of appreciation that I had the time to not be needing to prove anything sometimes. Like with social, you feel like you have to prove something all the time. I've got to prove that I'm really smart. I got to prove that I'm really insightful. I got to prove that I know all these amazing people. You just feel like you've got to keep proving something when you log in. Not all the time, but sometimes you do. And at that time, there wasn't anybody who cared. There was no one who was looking at anything. There was no one who was asking me for anything. So it was like I just had myself in this idea of a dream and I was forced to have to do a lot of manual figuring out. I think now there are definitely some pros to being able to have access to the knowledge. As long as you understand that it's knowledge and it's not wisdom. As long as you know that you've got to actually apply some failure to it and then you get some wisdom. And the fortunate thing that I had then was I had time to go through a lot of failure and a lot of experimentation and mess up a lot.
- [13:01]
Radi Malinich
I guess it really helps when you can fail in private because nobody knows how much you struggle. Because I guess we seem to have this sort of culture now where people want to tell you how much they fail in public. I just before we hopped on this call, I saw a post by David Hyle and says, as in fail in public, weep in private. It helps you because obviously you're more accountable. But you have to build your resilience to deal with all of this. Because if you make yourself look vulnerable outside, then you have to be ready for what's come because there'll be people for you and people against you. You need still bit more work on this. So I think it was magical and obviously I think we might be from a similar generation of similar age where the endless experiments were just yours, they're just me.
- [13:46]
Kerry Laster
It's like you get the opportunity to know when you made something dope. You'll know when you made something dope. And I think it might have been John Jay who I heard him say, I heard him say this one quote and it really helped me when I was trying to learn the program, I was trying to learn all this stuff. He was like, your taste level never changes. You have taste. What you're chasing is your ability to execute on the taste. I know the thing I'm trying to make in my head, I'm trying to get these buttons to do it. And that helped me from not getting discouraged by all the failures. When I'd make something and it looked ugly and it looked horrendous. One of my best friends still holds onto the first flyer that I ever made for him. He holds onto it cuz he paid me and it was like I thought I was really doing something. I was like, oh, I'm gonna look. I paid like $20 to make a flyer.
- [14:33]
Radi Malinich
Okay.
- [14:33]
Kerry Laster
I got a real assignment and I was in there doing stuff and I sent him this thing and it was horrific. And he's an amazing person because he believed in me. That he didn't tell me was terrible. He like held off and he was like, okay. He paid someone else to make a flyer that he could use. Then later on he was like, yeah, man, this flyer's terrible, but I know you're gonna get better. And it was true. I needed that boost. I needed the little moment that I turned down something and it was okay. And it was like, I'm glad I didn't have somewhere to post it because I probably would have posted it somewhere and yeah, look at this and been marked by it later. But absolutely, absolutely it was a great time to be able to make something and not feel the pressure that I had to deliver to people that I don't know and to show up fully formed as opposed to like right now or at that time at least I was able to experiment and fail and try different things and figure out what looked good to me based on what my taste was. We'll be back after a quick break.
- [15:36]
Radi Malinich
If you're enjoying this podcast and would like more support and information on your creative journey, you can pick up one of my books to help you do just that. My titles cover branding, graphic design, illustration all the way to career, business advice with ideas how to navigate the highs and lows of the creative process. You can pick up signed paperbacks at no extra cost from my store@nobmberuniverse.co.uk and we are shipping worldwide use code podcast for extra 10% off your order and you can find the links in the show notes. Any day should be a new book day. You mentioned earlier that you were inspired by stories and how past autumn was one of the things that you know you caught at the right time. And sometimes it's just magical when we get to see these signs that just show up. You're like, oh, I didn't really know that this existed. But how did stories come into your life earlier on? Was it. Did you read a lot? Because you said you, you wrote and you still write it now. But I find it magical. Especially people who are from the middle of America or south or not from main cities. They always come with incredible stories about how they got inspired by books that they didn't know existed in the first place and not that they shaped their life.
- [16:59]
Kerry Laster
I think part of the benefit of being southern the US is one you just get exposed to a lot of long winded people and so early on it was hearing people frame up a story and me being a visual Thinker and them just telling you about their interaction going to the barbershop, their interaction going to the grocery store, who they ran into, what that person said, the drama that unfolded. And, like, when I'm younger, so I'm, like, listening to, like, my parents, grandparents, and the people they're talking to. And they talk with their body, and they talk really big, and it's like a whole thing. So in my mind, I'm picturing the scene and, like, what happened. And, like, you could almost hear the see the camera turn when he walked in. And I saw him say this, and I was like, that's not you. And it would be that whole exchange. So, like, when I was younger, it was hearing the people around me tell stories about everyday life. And that's also what made me think about there being this magic in everyday life and there always being these stories that everyone has something that they could share, that you could gain from or every experience, there's, like, layers to it. It just came from being exposed to those people. And I was a big reader because my parents were very committed to me and my siblings really reading and really exposing us to the world outside of us. Again, I'm from a smaller city, so my way of getting introduced to different parts of the world was in hearing the voices from those places tell me what their experiences were. And then I would imagine what things looked like and what they sounded like and what they felt like. And by the time I got to seeing Half Past Autumn, I had mentally creating all this stuff. And now I knew that it was possible to bring some of that to life. And that was like, okay, now I know what to do with the stories, and I know what I can. How I can contribute and create.
- [18:52]
Radi Malinich
I love that physical aspect of storytelling. I know when you say that people told stories with their full bodies, I'm sure it's inspired you. For the interim. Let's just get started and look at, as you said, I want to get in the room. How many of these things do you use now in your work? Like, how many flashbacks do you have to those stories about barbershops? Because when you read a book, it transcends you. Somewhere you sometimes think about, like, why am I thinking about the corner of that street, which I haven't been for 25 years, say, when we come to the work that you do with your team now, how many of these elements that you've drawn upon that could potentially still be valid and useful?
- [19:29]
Kerry Laster
I still draw them on a daily basis. For example, in presentation. If you've ever Seen a really good preacher tell you a story, tell you a sermon. It's a buildup, it's a performance. There's beats that he's hitting. He's trying to emotionally get you involved. And I would think about all of these different characters and people that gave me a little bit more understanding or moments in which I was exposed to something as a result of being in these different environments. And I carry it all the time. The thing about trying to tell a good story, you're a creative director, you're pitching all the time. You're pitching all the time. I'm also having to get you to buy into the idea and not look at the page or the presentation I'm putting in front of you with a bunch of words. I've got to make you envision something, so I've got to convince you of what I'm trying to sell you. And then I realize that in every part of creative, whether I'm making the fly or whether I'm directing the commercial, whether I'm like writing the thing, I'm constantly having to tell you a story that gets you in a certain headspace to receive this creative idea and take it as your own. But that's very much dependent on how I tee up the presentation, how I take you on the journey, the words I use, if I'm using the phrase, are you open to. And know that you want to be open because nobody wants to feel like a closed person. And if I start off by saying, imagine, those are things I picked up from just hearing really good storytellers, hearing them really phrase up a scene. And then you go, okay, cool, you got my attention. Using words like, meanwhile, have you now I'm already in my mind creating like a split screen and going, there's another scene happening. Like all those little things, I still hold onto them because they really help me frame how to tell a proper story. In addition to the books that I was reading and the different writers, like the James Baldwin's and the Langston Hughes and things like that that I was getting exposed to helped me understand what was possible with what felt ordinary around me and pulling out the extraordinary in it to put into my work.
- [21:33]
Radi Malinich
You said something earlier that when you were working on your portfolio, when you were working on yourself, you had nothing to prove. You didn't need to prove anything to anyone like how smart you were or who you were. And when you think about just that, real life storytelling, those people are themselves. How many times in creative situations we have to pretend to be someone and just Try to emulate something or be multifaceted, faceted creatives, which sometimes is to our benefit, but sometimes I feel like it's a heavier load because you have to be a Persona. You can't be just showing up and go, hey, I'll tell you a story, and maybe you'll buy into it. Because we need to have that sort of knowledge and the wisdom to say, this is why we are in the room, because you can trust us and we can do this. When you think about taking off the burden of work and creativity and capitalism and storytelling on demand, everything gets a bit easier. But when you take this sort of natural and raw storytelling and put it onto your creative work, how heavy does it get?
- [22:32]
Kerry Laster
It doesn't get heavy at all. Because the main thing, and this is like my core thing as a creative, my goal is to get to the truth. Like, I am trying to find a way to the authentic truth. So even in the presentation, it's like solving the problem is going to be based off of the truth of that brand, the truth of that client, the truth of the problem we're solving. Let's get to the truth. All the other things that are like masking it get in the way, and then they prevent us from actually getting to the authentic thing and coming up with the expression or the visual that really is going to connect with people and really going to connect with the people I'm talking to. So, like, my whole thing is, let me get to the truth. What are we really trying to say? What are we really trying to solve? What is it that I'm really trying to tell you in my presentation? Let me just say that thing. Instead of me trying to find a different way, get you motivated, I can tell you a story that is true to what we're trying to do. And the more authentically I can get to that, the more you're going to be able to connect with it, because you're able to see past marketing bullshit that I put in front of you. You're like, oh, no. That's what we're trying to say. We're just trying to say, drink more water. So let me not try to come up with all this other stuff. Let me just say, drink more water. And I'm pitching you an idea that says, drink more water, and you get it. And the work for me is getting to the truth of what we're trying to say. And instead of getting caught up in catchphrases and everything else, Mike, when you.
- [24:04]
Radi Malinich
Said, let's get to the truth, and you started Your podcast, the creative safe space. And I feel like that's getting to the truth of actually who we are as creative people, how we work as creatives, and sharing the openness. That actually takes me back to that raw storytelling. I think what you've seen back on the corner from the barber show, people explaining themselves. This is what you do now with your tales and stories and obviously your understanding of the life heaviness, because our jobs on the outside look marvelous. Always say that creativity has got marketing problem because it promises you the most amazing experience, but it hardly ever delivers. I always say that creative dream often turns out to be an unproductive nightmare. And with your podcast, which I feel was so aligned with this show, how did it come about? Was it about, you know, getting to the truth again?
- [25:01]
Kerry Laster
Yes. It started because I was like many creatives. I was having a rough couple weeks, and I wanted to hear some other creatives that had experienced it. I just wanted to hear creatives talk about the mental, emotional journey of trying to make things. I didn't want to hear someone tell me six steps on how to be successful or how to get me more leads or how to wow someone with a presentation or give me like a 1, 2, 3. Because I'm like, I'm a real creative. I'm out here. I got awards. I've worked with some of the biggest brands in the world. Sure, sure, sure. I'm struggling with this right now. I am frustrated with my process. I'm doubting my ability to deliver on my ideas. I'm questioning whether or not I am creating something that's true to myself or am I creating something that's true to. To somebody else's idea? Am I being unique, or am I trying to fit into the brand so much that I'm now giving them things that they would come up with themselves instead of leaning in on my own uniqueness. I was struggling with that stuff, and I was just literally searching for podcasts that did that, and I couldn't find any that were doing that. I didn't need you to talk to me for three, four hours. I wanted it to feel like what this is right now. I just wanted to feel like I was talking to a friend over coffee in the morning before I have to head into the office. I just wanted to be able to bounce off with them. Ah, man, dude. I know it's really hard to focus on fonts where your home life is a little bit fucked up and you're still trying to figure out how to deliver or you're not sure. How to pivot from the problem or a pivot from the campaign because you're like, it's going in the wrong direction. And I don't know how to navigate this because people are depending on me. I just want to be able to, like, talk in a judgment free space with people who also understand it so that then I'm able to pull inspiration from them. I'm able to get encouraged by them and then go in and keep chipping away at it and then not feel like you're going to tell me how easy it is to be successful and how easy it is to sell the thing I'm selling because, as you said, from a creative, it's. I'm pulling from me into trying to come up with solution. And it's a lot of mental, physical stuff. If your life is outside of the work is off, it affects your work. But if you're listening to social, those things are not connected. So you should be able to produce amazing design work and edit something amazingly, even though your home is, like, all over the place right now or you're not feeling the best. And I'm like, that's not true. And I would love to hear conversation with people who are talking about it from that place because that then makes me feel encouraged that I'm not alone in the stuff I'm dealing with. And so when I didn't find it, I went, I'll just start it and we'll see what happens.
- [28:00]
Radi Malinich
I think your show is magical. I really like that the thinking was, let's create something that should exist. Because again, we are very similar on this journey. Because I was like, there is no book about how to deal with the highs and lows of creative life and careers. It doesn't exist. Or at least I wasn't aware of it. And people try to almost discourage. Are you really sure you want to talk about therapy? You want to talk about this? I'm like, I wish someone talked to me about therapy 20 years ago or even 10 years ago. I think the openness that we can actually share and the experiences that we have make us better industry might make us better society. Because I'm sure you remember, like, the time of the macho man under the macho creative art owner is one of my guests and said, do the job or get the sack. There was no, are you okay? Are you happy? Is everything all right? There was no such thing. You showed up late and you're going to stay late because we need your help. We had to stay overnight. This sort of bullshit dance in advertising, where people were staying till 3, 4 in the morning just to prove that they were working on a brief. And you're like, so pointless. It's just this dance of power and ego and people almost feel entrapped. Like, why do we do this? Because, like, when you now in your age, now, you know that you can produce good work in half of the time because you've actually given yourself time to think, you've got a lot less pressure. So I salute you for starting your podcast because right from the start, as you can tell, I'm a fan. You start with this deep breath, and I'm like, that's my show. Let's be honest, this is the thing. Because how many times a day, even now, do we have to remind ourselves to take a deep breath?
- [29:36]
Kerry Laster
100%. A hundred percent. And that was precisely it. If you're really working, you're going all the time. And then if you're really tuned into loving to do this, your brain is always firing and you're trying to. Even when you're about to go to bed, you're still trying to figure out, is that the right font? Is that the right song? Did we edit it the right way? Is this idea matching up to what I pitched? Like, you've got all these things and you forget to sometimes take care of yourself because again, you're solving problems all day, so you don't realize that, oh, wait, I'm actually solving problems all day, so I should be intentional with creating spaces for me to reset and slow down because I'm just going and everyone's bringing me more of their stuff. Our business is not selling. Can you come up with a campaign that's going to save our business? That's a big ass. So now I've got to. And you touched on it. The thing that gets forgotten is it's you alone in a room coming up with ideas. It's you sitting there with a blank piece of paper figuring out how to make this work and doing that day in and day out and having to give of yourself and ask all these questions and put ideas in them that work and come up with others that also aren't working and come up with ideas that aren't doing the same and show up every day is a lot. And like you said, they don't really tell you, oh, you should take a break. Oh, you should take a vacation. Oh, you should slow down. You've got too many projects on your plate. You should probably not have so many. And you keep thinking, I have to go faster. I have to go harder, I have to do more, I have to be more in tune. I've got to be on top of all this stuff. And then you burn out and you do a hard crash and then you try to put the pieces back together again. But then if you don't have a toolkit on, like how to take care of yourself, you just end up getting back in the same loop and practicing some meditation and realizing that, oh, I have to just take a deep breath. Let me slow down. Every time I'm in a still quiet headspace, I'm able to come up with the idea and solve the problem. If I'm creating spaces for me to unpack things and reassess them, I have to start by slowing down. And there's nothing more slow than me taking a deep breath.
- [31:52]
Radi Malinich
When you mentioned the blank piece of paper in the room where you think, I need to come up with an idea. If you were to remove the pressure of the campaign or the ailing business or that kind of stuff, you'd be actually happy to sit in the room and go, you know what? It's a blank piece of paper. And I like you're thinking, because there's a first chapter in this book, Mindful Creator, which literally says creativity starts with a blank piece of paper. And it's linked to the over turbo shape saturated world with AI and thinking and legacy. Because you need to take it back to that zero. Because the magic happens. What I call like, it's like the boxing ring of where the ideas live and die and we fight them out and not careers are terminated in a boxing ring which is just a blank piece of paper. But I think to create things that sort of resonate with other people's souls, you need to start from the base because it makes you uncomfortable. We want the uncomfortable, but sometimes we don't want too much uncomfortable. And then you got a client and you got obviously all of the business pressures and you're like, okay, this was meant to be fun. Some of it's fun and some of it's not. Do you have external help? Does AI ever come in? Like, how do you do this? Let's talk ideation.
- [33:05]
Kerry Laster
My process is still the same. It always starts with me somewhere by myself, quiet. It's. I have to start quiet. I gotta start by myself. I have to not be looking at things because my goal is again to get to the truth. So I have to be able to actually look at the brief. I've read the brief. I've read what you're wanting me to solve. Now I have to sit somewhere and just go, okay, what are they really trying to say? You've given me all this information, you've given me this docket full of stuff. What is it that they really want me to say? What are we really trying to say? That to me is it's the most important thing for me to be figuring out on your project, for me to be figuring out any creative thing I'm doing The truth. And the reason why I say truth is because once you're at the truth, there's nowhere else to go. The truth is we want people to know that we've got the. We've got the best show this year. That's really what we're trying to say. I go, okay, cool, cool, cool. So let's start there and build from that. We really want to say, trust us, our cars aren't going to break down on you. Okay, let's build off of that. I start that by being by myself, quiet. Or I try to block off at least an hour to just sit there and rattle off what is the truth and then build things off of that. What are ideas that I feel are connected to that? Because the idea part of being crazy is easy. You can come up with shit ton of ideas. That's not the problem. It's me trying to go, does this idea speak to the thing I'm trying to solve? Does this make sense? Am I checking the boxes of what I feel like this idea is going to do for the problem? And I can't know that until I figure out what the actual problem is? Very much like a plumber. I could fix. I could fix pipes. I have to know where the problem is in the house. Once I can find the problem in the house, Once I find the pipe that's really causing everything. Now, now I can figure out the tools, I can figure out the approach. I can get into solving it and getting everything flowing again. But it starts there. And then the other tools I use depend on the output, but I always start by myself. And then after there, I start to create a folder of just ideas. I'm pretty sure you do this, but I am very much in a headspace of collecting visuals and videos and audio clips and whatever. I'm constantly collecting them and putting them into different folders. I have a folder that's just called Ideas and it's just full of stuff. And it's just stuff I found that visually I thought was cool or interesting videos, whatever. And I go to it after. I now have figured out what it is that I'm really solving and I start just going through stuff. It's stuff that I thought was interesting and cool and I pull out things that are interesting. And now that I have a little bucket, I can start to play a little bit.
- [36:02]
Radi Malinich
So I was going to actually ask you about a silence and a silent space and a quiet space for your thoughts, but I'm actually going to talk about your folder of ideas. How much of a value is there to actually collect these ideas? And are they helping you? Or actually, can they be more clutter in your mind because you're now trying to remember what you've seen and what you've know when you might be looking at where you might not be able to find stuff?
- [36:25]
Kerry Laster
That's a good question. I curate it, though. Like, my approach was I was always curating the folder. So I have one big folder that just has ideas and it's just full of things dumped in it. And whenever I'm looking for something, I tend to curate the stuff that I find and put it in there. I'm not a hoarder when it comes to things, so it would be very much like I'd see something. And this is. Again, I go through the process, I ask myself, what do I like about this? Do I like just the way this looks? Do I like what's happening in it? Do I like the message? Because that little quick questionnaire is going to let me know whether I'm going to save it or not. And if I just think it's cool and I think it's dope, I'm just going, oh, man, that's really dope. And then keep going. But I'm looking for stuff that really speaks to me. It catches me. I just think it's really interesting and I'm just trying to hold onto interesting things. So just that little curation would help me not have a folder full of just stuff. It's things that I really do find interesting, that when I come back to them, they spark something in me. I'm like, oh, that is a good idea. I really do love what they were doing in this photograph. I really do love what they're doing in this layout. I remember now, and that has helped. Otherwise, like you, I have a hard drive full of shit.
- [37:42]
Radi Malinich
The reason why I asked about the volume and not having the vault versus starting afresh, because obviously creative process is magical. Obviously when it's messy, when there's a creative conflict, you're like, okay, I'm enjoying this. But it requires resilience and endurance to Actually go through it and not to get overwhelmed by it. And I think when you talk about a quieter space to solve your honor, solve your problems, solve your ideas, come up with something new, almost like that. Simplicity almost, in my opinion, actually helps the clarity because it gets quite easy to be overwhelmed in the 21st century.
- [38:17]
Kerry Laster
Uh, a hundred percent. The reason why, again, talking about the folder, after I've come out of, like, really trying to think and I've had quiet moments in myself, I go to the folder first before I start digging online. Because when I would get online, I would start getting influenced by all this stuff and I get distracted. And if I just went to this folder, it's not plugged into the Internet, so I only have what's in here. And it's funny as you ask this, I think about it now, I was creating a space for me to just be inspired. So it was. That folder is not for me to then think of how I can copy or emulate or I'm going to make this thing. I'm going to take this and use it. Which also was something I would think about in curating Things I saved was not getting things that I felt like I was going to go use them. I just needed to have something that actually I thought was cool and interesting. Because if I thought it was cool and interesting, then when I would go back to it, it would inspire me. And I would. And I would say sometimes to my team and I would say to other designers and creatives when I'm mentoring them, is my job as a creative is to stay inspired. That's really what I have to do. So I have to be intentional in creating ways for me to pull inspiration and be exposed to things that are going to spark something for me. So I treated the folder like this is something. This is just inspiration. Like, I'm not putting junk in here. I'm putting things I think actually are dope. I'm saving videos that I think are really cool that I love watching. Like, I could watch this commercial, I could watch this animation a million times and still get excited. That's the stuff I'm saving. So then as a working creative, when I've got to come up with something in like, five minutes, I've got a day to come up with something. I don't really have time to be searching over the Internet for inspiration. Like, I may be able to find something that does a technical thing I'm looking for. So I can find, like, this thing that is doing a trick with fonts or doing this thing with the animation, like, I can find something specific. But if I'm just trying to be inspired, if I'm just trying to be encouraged creatively, like, I can't rely on that moment to try to pull that out for me. So I want to already have this built for me. So then when it's tolerant for me to go, okay, Carrie, you've now got to come up with some ideas. All right, Now I've thought about what the truth is. I think I figured out what we're trying to say, what we're trying to solve for. I'm going to go to my folder. I'm now just going to start looking through images. And then I'm like, oh, that's cool. I think that could be something. Oh, that's cool. That could be something. And now I can start to build out my folder of. Here are my references for this. Here are the videos I think are going to work. And then I can build. But it helps me. It helps me. If I had already curated the space and treat it like something that is supposed to inspire me and not a thing for me to just pull tears from, because I could pull tears from anywhere. But this is supposed to get me excited to start creating.
- [41:14]
Radi Malinich
Do you ever feel with your role as a creative director, that when you find yourself at the sort of top of that process, you've got very few people to actually help you guide it? Like with the. You now have to have the answers because you got people who ask you all the questions. How did you feel when you sort of graduated in that sort of creative life? Okay, so I've been coming step by step now, top of my tree, and it's getting heavier because I need to have the answers. I need to help people. As you say, you're mentoring people, you're helping people, you're guiding them. How did that feel for you when you made that speech? Because that's often very exciting part. Okay, I'm steering the ship, but, oh, my God, sometimes it's like it's impossible to have every answer. Do you ever feel like it's okay to show vulnerability and say, you know what? I am okay to say, I don't know, maybe I need to work it out. And also you've got that responsibility of not keeping everyone happy and on track and stimulating you to rally the troops. So how did that feel for you to go up?
- [42:13]
Kerry Laster
I'd say this is where it's fortunate that I grew up, where I grew up. The town that I'm from is like a very big sports town. Like, iconic when it comes to high school football, more high school football wins than any other high school in the US like crazy. But being in a sports town means that you've been playing sports all your life. And the thing you learn from really good coaches is, like, how they get the best out of everyone on the team. Like, really good coaches. And you realize that it's an individual thing. I can't just go, everybody's going to get inspired by this thing. Everybody's going to want to do this. I have to figure out how to motivate each person and also setting the temperature for what the room is. When I got to the place of me being creative lead, the first thing is I don't have an ego. I'm not the smartest person in the room. I am interested in making the best work possible. I want to make the best work. So that's what I'm locked into. If your idea is better than mine, if your idea. And by better, if your idea better aligns with the thing we're trying to solve, it gets closer to the truth we're trying to tap into. I'm with it. Like, I don't need to be the smartest. I don't need to be the best. I'm going to come up with ideas. I'm going to present stuff because I'm also competitive, because, again, sports. So I'm going to put my best foot forward and want to show up and want to deliver. But the goal for me is to create the best work. And like saying that at the beginning, leading, making that the core of every team I've been on and saying, that's what we're doing. It automatically got rid of a lot of ego and a lot of people feeling this wasn't a vulnerable space, they couldn't show flaws. I'd have to have the big thing because I went, no one's going to care that I came up with the idea. They're literally at the end of that nice commercial, they're not going to go. This commercial would not have been possible without Carrie. Last. You're not going to know I made the commercial until I tell you I made it and put it in my reel. So me having this ego about it or feeling like I've gotta have all the answers, I don't. You brought me in here to solve the problem. If I was a doctor, the whole point is I would select. I would bounce this off other doctors, be in there trying to figure out what's wrong with the patient. Here's the problem. Okay, team, what do we do? Like, how do we come at this? This is my idea of what I think we can do. Let's gut check it. Does that really work? All right, it doesn't. Let's come up with something better. The only thing I ask is that you show up ready to solve the problem. That's what I need from you. If you're ready to do that and you're ready to get better and you're ready to grow as a person and you're ready to dive in on creating something that's powerful and interesting, let's go. I could care less of whether or not it's me who does it. Like, I'm here for it.
- [45:00]
Radi Malinich
I love that. I love that we have unlocked, at least for me, we've unlocked the idea that there's a parallel between sport and creativity with being in the team, where if you have that ego, you get your ass kicked because you're there for the team, playing tennis for yourself, and then that's how you brought that knowledge and what I call creative. Being a creative athlete, actually understanding that there's so much more that we have to do as creatives. Because on the team, you've got a coach. Usually you got people who actually help you to get better. If you get a knock, if you get bruise or whatever, break, there's physio, they help you. There's so many people around you. But when you have to be running your own team with your own resources and be running in an overdrive because you have to spot the signs, let go of your own ego, and then spot the signs and look after the others, be more than just one sort of person in the team. So I love that you had that opportunity to learn it, because we really draw in a lot of back from Georgia, where you grew up. That's what gave you this platform and this understanding of what was to come. Because there's so many people who come to the industry not knowing what's going to happen and their expectations are really high. I'm grinding this concept on this podcast quite a lot to death. That when we started the industry, we've had with high expectations, our resilience is not there. Whereas in sports, you often go low expectations and high resilience because shit's going to happen and it's not likely to work out. So I think this is bringing us back to your. The reason why I started your podcast, because even for someone who's feel so equipped emotionally and physically and creatively, like you said, you hit struggle. You had Sort of rough times, and you wanted to get it out and actually speak to people, because if you don't talk about it, even on teams, I used to play ice hockey, and people were like, there's a failure, there's a worry or struggle or doubt, because should be as one. Whereas when we understand one another, it can actually help one another so much more. And that's, I think, where your podcast and where your message comes so strong that we should be looking after each other a hundred percent.
- [47:06]
Kerry Laster
A hundred percent. You're not by yourself. You're also the ego. And pride tells you that you are the first person to ever experience what you're experiencing. And then you read a book and you talk to a friend, and you realize there's like millions of people who have already experienced that thing, gone through that thing, and have had to find their way through it. And if you can listen to them, if you can listen to the wisdom that surround you, you can get through it as well. But if you start to think that you're the only one and you think that, okay, I've also gotta be the one to figure it out. I've also get a lot of I stuff in there. You get stuck. And I say the benefits of social is that it creates a lot of opportunities for us to connect to each other. The downsides is when we don't connect to each other authentically. So then you're coming in, trying to put up a facade that you've got it all together. It's okay to not have it all together. And that was primarily the core of the podcast is like, it's okay to not have it worked out. The understanding that none of us know what we're doing is true. I have no idea how I'm going to solve the campaign. I have no idea. You just told me. I have no idea how we're going to solve it. I know that I will. I know that I will deliver something that will do the job. The gap, that space in between delivering the thing and you telling me the problem. That's the space of me exploring and me experimenting and me, like, having to be vulnerable with ideas and be vulnerable with what I don't know and go on a journey, pull from, like, wisdom from other people that have done things before me, which is essentially what a reference is. It's this person came to a conclusion, and I'm pulling inspiration from that, pulling understanding from it. So taking all that into consideration, you go, oh, I'm not by myself. If I treat it like a team sport. If I treat it like I have other people to tap into. Then it's not so daunting trying to come up with the idea. It's a collection of ideas and inspiration. It's my job then to try to filter out and try to hone down what it is we're doing. But that's it. That's it. Everything else is improv and collaboration. And that's what I think I love about being creative, is that aspect of it. And that's also why I feel like it's really important for us to highlight that part of the creative life and not get so trapped into the presentation and the awards and the names of the people that I've done things for and, like, all of that stuff, that's cool and that's great. It has a place. But when you're trying to figure out who you are as a person and as a creative and an artist, that stuff doesn't matter. I'm trying to be a better version of me, and my version of me isn't the same as the better version of you. How do I tap into that? What are questions I need to be asking me to get better? What are questions that I can ask to make the people around me better? How do I contribute my work and it have an impact on culture? So that means I have to understand culture and I have to ask myself questions about how I feel about culture. Those are deeper things that sometimes try to put into a box of, like, productiveness. And you should be able to just produce this and be good to go. And it's. It's not. It's different. I am no different than a musician, like, writing a song or as I like to think about it. And I pull this from Ethan Hawke talking about art. People are like, art doesn't matter until your father dies, until you fall in love. And all of a sudden you're searching for someone who has taken the time to connect with themselves and produce something that's authentic, that you can now relate to. I then go, that's my job. I want to make sure that I'm in the headspace to produce something that you will connect with, even if it's just supposed to be a goofy little commercial? Is it actually funny because it's true? Does it hit you because it's authentic and not because I pulled a couple of catchphrases offline and found something trendy and said, here you go, and that's work.
- [51:02]
Radi Malinich
I like that you mentioned Ethan Hawke thing in A Few Thousand TED Talks out there. He's Produced one of my most favorite ones. And he said, give yourself permission to be creative. I think it's such an unlikely source. I was never aware of his thinking and his philosophies, but the more I hear him speak, you're like, oh, my God, there's another Ethan Hawke thing. I need stop everything I want to find out because it's kind of like almost a place for me to recharge. When someone is so profound and it just connects. You're like, oh, there's a lifeline. There's something like this. These things make sense because one of my therapists says we are not even the best surgeon can work on their own appendix. They can't take out their own appendix. And we need to be reminded that even the people we look up to fuck up, they break, they cry. We just put people on the industry. Great. On a pedestal. Like, I want really to know the real stories. I want to know how to do this and how they recharge and see what they do with you. Because it's easy to go to a gallery and like, oh, yeah, recharge now. But what do you do? What is your place outside work, family and everything? What do you do that is that safe space where you just disappear and come back a little bit brighter?
- [52:16]
Kerry Laster
For me, it's the movies. Like, I've always loved film, but I always love going to the movie theater. Because when you go to the movie theater, you are forced to have to ignore everything else going on. You don't have a choice. It's dark. I can't see. I can't be on my phone. I can't be talking to the person next to me. I have to be in the experience. And there aren't as many places where you are forced to be in an experience. And then the beauty of movies, like books, is that I can go anywhere depending on the movie. I'm in space. I'm in the West. I'm in, like, some small town in Ireland. I'm all over the place, and I'm hearing I'm getting exposed to an experience through lenses that I would never get exposed. I'm never going to know how that feels. I am a black man from South Georgia. I will never know what it is. Like, be an Indian woman from a small village. I'm never going to know. So when I see that story and I see her telling her truth and I go, oh, I can connect to parts of these feelings. I can connect to this. Like, I can. Wow. I. I never would have been able to imagine this that stuff sends me over the moon. And I've been going to movies like on a regular somewhere groups, but I go by myself often and I sit in there and I'm ready to be taken somewhere else. I'm ready to have a different experience. And I always come out even when the movie's bad for me, when it's my bad, which is an important thing to say. Some movies are bad for me that are great for others and vice versa. But even when I feel like the experience was like, eh, I always am grateful that I had it. Because for that little bit of hour and a half, two hours, I wasn't in the world. I wasn't in my project. I wasn't in the stuff going on with my family. I wasn't in the stuff that I have to deal with, a grown up thing. I was in this space for an hour and a half and I'm always grateful for that. So movie theaters. Movie theaters.
- [54:18]
Radi Malinich
Amazing. I think there's something physically transcending when you leave a movie theater and a movie has an impact on you. You're like, you just feel like you've been dropped from a different planet and into the world. Wow. I just want to go back to that thing. I was just like, how do I emulate? How do I recreate it? How can I do these things?
- [54:35]
Kerry Laster
Yeah.
- [54:35]
Radi Malinich
I've got two young children. I haven't been to movies for a long time. I've been to movies recently with my children.
- [54:40]
Kerry Laster
That's different.
- [54:41]
Radi Malinich
That's different. You're a dad arguing about their snacks and about things. And my boy just tries to sort of like take his top off and jump over the seats. And you're like, yeah, this is a different story now, isn't it? That's. Life changes. Life changes. It has to keep moving forward. So, Kerry, I've been really cherishing this conversation. I think we can go on for hours and a question when I'm being asked, but in this instance I feel it might be appropriate. What is the advice you would give yourself growing up and looking into the world that you were creating for yourself? Would there be any type of advice? Would you tell yourself anything?
- [55:18]
Kerry Laster
It would be pretty simple. It's that no one knows what they're doing. So your ideas have just as much chance of being successful as anyone else's. It's okay that you're going to fuck up. You're going to fuck up. Embrace the fact you're going to fuck up. Embrace the fact you're going to fail. It's okay regardless of what people make you feel about falling short. The only way you're going to know how to be better is if you're bad. The only way you're going to know how to improve is if you underperform. If you don't have a gauge for what success or what winning skills because you've only been doing it and you've had no failure, then you don't know how to recover. You don't know how to actually grow as a person. The failure is what makes you grow and it's what makes you better. So I would tell myself, embrace the failure. You will survive it. No one knows what they're doing, so your ideas have just as much chances making it. And believe in yourself because the you today is not the you tomorrow. So don't get wrapped up in where you are right now and what your capabilities are at this moment. You will get better if you don't quit. So don't quit.
- [56:34]
Radi Malinich
Magical. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for your time today, for sharing your wisdom with me and your passion for the craft. It'd be my pleasure. Thank you.
- [56:43]
Kerry Laster
Same. Thank you for having me. I'm glad to be able to talk about it. I could talk creative and like making things an inspiration. I could talk about that all day. I mean I get to which is the benefit of being a creative. But that's what I love, man. That's the thing. The other parts of it, measuring success and like wins and stuff is cool, but like when you make something and you know it clicked and you made the thing you wanted to make and you see it in front of you and you know that it's moving people and you feel the experience. That's what it is. So being able to talk to you about that stuff and know that I'm talking to somebody who feels the same way, that's it.
- [57:17]
Radi Malinich
This is.
- [57:18]
Kerry Laster
This is my happy place.
- [57:20]
Radi Malinich
Super style. Thank you so much. Hey, thank you for listening to this episode of Mindful Creative Podcast. I'd love to know your thoughts, questions or even suggestions. So please get in touch via the show notes or social channels. This episode was produced and presented by me, Radon Malinich. Editing and audio production was masterfully done by Neil McKay from 7 Million Bikes podcast and the theme music was written and produced by Jack James. Thank you and I hope to see you on the next episode. Hey, just a quick note to say thank you for joining me on this episode. If this is your first time or you're a regular listener, please take a minute and rate the show on your chosen platform. A short review helps every show to be more visible to new listeners and provide them with value. So thank you for helping out. Thank you.