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- [00:02]
Radim Malin
Hey, just a quick note to say thank you for joining me on this episode. If this is your first time or you're a regular listener, please take a minute and rate the show on your chosen platform. A short review helps every show to be more visible to new listeners and provides them with value.
- [00:19]
Amelia Nash
So thank you for being here and for helping out.
- [00:21]
Radim Malin
Thank you.
- [00:38]
Amelia Nash
I think that I spent a large part of the things that I do in my upbringing and into my young adulthood, like being so concerned about other people and what other people think. And that's where a lot of that people pleasing comes from. Getting into point now in my life where it's like life is just too short. There's. There's bigger fish to fry. There's so many of the things that we obsess over and so many of the things that we're like, oh, like what if? And yeah, I can apply for a thing and then sit in my living room ransacked with worry and never move forward until I hear back. Or I can just let it go. I'm going to apply for this thing and now I have no control over it. So what's the point in worrying? What's the point in getting anxious over this? I'm just going to let it go and then I'm going to move on to the next thing.
- [01:32]
Radim Malin
Welcome to the Daring Creativity Podcast, the show about daring to forever explore creativity that isn't about chasing shiny perfection. It's about showing up with all your doubts and imperfections and making them count. It's about becoming more of who you already are. My name is Radim Malinj. I'm a designer, author and eternally curious human being. I am talking to a broad range of guests who share their stories of small actions that sparked lifetime discoveries, taking one step towards the thing that made them feel most alive. Let me begin this episode with a Are you ready to discover what happens.
- [02:11]
Amelia Nash
When you dare to create?
- [02:13]
Foreign.
- [02:20]
Radim Malin
A Canadian born New York City based designer, brand strategist and creative director with experience of crafting bold, sustainable brands that inspire, educate and connect. She's driven by analytical insight. She runs in depth data analysis to transform ideas into unforgettable visual narratives. In our conversation, we talk about her fearless approach to opportunity, consistently leaving situations where she felt cut and grow and maintaining an attitude of confetti in the wind, throwing out applications and ideas to see what lands. She demonstrates how curiosity and courage can create unexpected opportunities. Now she's also working as a Brand and Marketing manager at the SVA's Masters in Branding Program. And as a senior staff writer for print magazine, she embodies the power of asking questions, embracing change and refusing to settle for work that doesn't challenge her to grow.
- [03:20]
Amelia Nash
Hey Amelia, how are you doing? Welcome to the show.
- [03:23]
Thank you, thank you for having me. I'm doing well, how are you?
- [03:27]
Fantastic stuff. Well, excited to speak to you about a topic of daring creativity on topic of daring because I know you and I know that your journey into what you do, how you do it and where you go with all of this is nonlinear. Like in a way that you put me to shame because my journey is non linear, whereas yours is like, oh my God, how? What? So for those who have may have never heard of you, tell us about yourself, what you do, who you are, and let's unpick it a bit.
- [03:55]
Yeah, my journey is totally nonlinear. It's not even on the same line of the same page, on the same book. It's truly confetti in the wind. But for those that don't know me, Hello, I'm Amelia Nash and I'm from a very small town in Canada in the shoe schwabs called Salmon Arm. I'm currently living and working in New York City as a brand strategist and consultant as well as a design designer freelance on the side. And my full time gig is as the brand and marketing manager at the School of Visual Arts Masters in Branding program. And I am also a senior staff writer for a print magazine.
- [04:39]
You mentioned something amazing that I liked. As an expression. We said there's like confetti in the wind. I always believe, and this is based on a conversation I have on this show, that people are like confetti in the wind. They flew out. They sometimes don't even know. Like when someone says, hey, you're going to fly out, do you know where you're going? No idea. I'm not sure where I'm landing. We all land in a place where we should be because where you are today, did you ever want it to be in this place?
- [05:04]
Originally? No. I am endlessly curious and very quickly and easily bored. So growing up, I think what I wanted to be as a kid and thinking about my future changed probably a hundred times. I graduated high school and I think like many 18 year olds didn't have a clue what I wanted to do or where I wanted to be. So I took a year off and went and lived in France. And I didn't know it at the time, but that was actually my first introduction into graphic design because a friend of the family was A graphic designer. And I remember seeing her giant imac on her desk and she was explaining to me what she did. I remember thinking, oh that's really cool. But I didn't connect any dots or anything like that. I just was like, oh, this is neat. I came home and at that time we had moved and I was now living in Edmonton and I started at the University of Alberta with a dual major in French translation and theater. So I thought, okay, well I'll either be a drama teacher or I will be a translator for French. And it seems so ridiculous now saying it out loud and thinking about it because it was just so sporadic. It's so sporadic. I don't understand how I thought putting those two things together made any sense. But I was just interested in them both. And so I thought, well, I'll just pursue both.
- [06:43]
I want to ask you about France because 18 year old you thinking France for a year. Did you have any connections or did you go blind?
- [06:53]
It was through a rotary exchange program. And because I'm Canadian, we learn French in school. Like we have the dual languages, French and English. So I had studied French. I was in French immersion since grade eight. So I did know French, but it was not any level of fluency. I really became fluent and bilingual in French as I lived in France. And I have a really weird dialect because I learned Quebecois, like Canadian French, but had more opportunities speaking France French. So yeah, so I, I knew a little bit, but I ended up going there through a rotary exchange program and I was supposed to do my first year of university there but there was a mess up with the paperwork so I ended up just traveling around.
- [07:43]
I don't know much about French, sort of design scene, trying to make the numbers lead. 2000s, was that like that? So I'm trying to work out like what was the influences because you looked at it, you thought that looks interesting and carried on. But did you have any sort of influences? Speaking different language, thinking differently? Like how did that inspire you?
- [08:03]
Yeah, the reason why I chose France is because I had learned French in school. And so for me I was like, well, I want to continue leveling up in French. So France just made sense. And that was really the reason why I wanted to go to France was just to expand my knowledge in the language that I had learned. And it's funny because you would think that maybe yes, art nouveau or architecture or anything like that was, would have been the reason. But again, at the time I didn't have an understanding in design as career, in creativity as career. I Just thought, ooh, I'm going to go there and learn more of the language. And going there, absolutely, I think was a really formative year in who I became as an adult. How can you not go to France and learn everything you need to learn about architecture and design and museums and art galleries and some of the artistic periods of those times? And again, I don't think I really realized all of that at the time, but I definitely brought a lot of that back with me.
- [09:16]
Some. Was it the French? And then carrying on doing a degree to be a French translator makes sense. But theater, how do we get to theater? What? How?
- [09:27]
Yeah, theater was. Because I was just a theater kid in school. I did drama again from grade 8 through 12. So it was just. I just thought, okay, if French translation doesn't work out, like, what's a career I could see myself doing? And again, I like drama, I like the theatrics, and I liked teaching. So I just thought, oh, drama teacher. And it's funny because all of these things that I am involved in absolutely do have a sense of creativity within them. I was always a creative kid. My, my mom is very artistic and so she always had us doing kind of arts and crafts. And I was the kid who would design the binder covers and create my own stickers and do all that kind of stuff. So there's always been, I think, a glimmer of creativity in everything that I pursue, whether I know it at the time or not. But that was the reason why I wanted to do drama, because, like, theater and the scenes and the set pieces and everything just seemed really cool.
- [10:28]
I like that you said, if the French translation doesn't work out, the theater will work out.
- [10:33]
Right. So there you can, you can get into my brain as a disillusioned 18 year old thinking, if working for the UN as a translator doesn't work out, theater. That's the one.
- [10:42]
Yeah. The UN might not work out, but it definitely did. A theater, that would be the safe choice. But it sounds like there was not too much of a pushback from your family, from your parents. Like you were kind of left to.
- [10:53]
Your own devices, I guess, in that sense. My parents were fortunately quite encouraging and liberal of what I wanted to be as long as I went to school, because they're both teachers and my dad is actually a city planner. So my stepfather and my mother are both teachers. And so they were both very strict with education. As long as I went to school and got an education, I don't know if they really cared. All too Much like what exactly I ended up doing as long as I got an education. They both wanted me to be a teacher, of course. So maybe that's why being a drama teacher was okay. On their checklist of things that I could be was because teaching in any form, they both aligned with.
- [11:40]
Wow. Okay, that's interesting because like I, like you said, they were liberal, but as long as you were in school, that was okay. Bit of an interesting juxtaposition. So. Yeah. So the theater didn't work out, did it? So you managed to do some other stuff. So how do we get from now some from French and theater to you wanting to be a marine biologist? Harsh.
- [12:05]
Yes. Okay. So while I was. So while I was in France, my mother, my stepfather, my siblings moved to Edmonton, Alberta. So that's the next province over. And so when I came home from France, I came back to Edmonton and that's where I. That's what I did my first year of university. The French, the drama, that didn't work out. So I, I think I lasted like two semesters and was like, this is not for me. So I dropped out of school and was trying to float around, figure out what I wanted to do. And my stepdad recommended that I go check out the open house at Nate, which is like a technical institution in Edmonton. So I went to that and I was wandering around and I came across graphic communications program and I fell in love with it. I fell in love with it because it was doing art on a computer and it just was thought it was the coolest thing in the world. So I ended up doing that, got my certificate and then ended up out of graduation working at an architecture firm. And I was their only designer as an in house designer. I did everything and it was such a good learning opportunity and I think it really got me into. That was my first foray into branding because I had to do everything from business cards to their website. I ended up doing a rebrand for the company as well and updating their logo, how to do exterior signage. So that was really cool. So I liked the work that I was doing, but I did not like where I was working. And so it was about probably three or four years later that I wanted to move on to different things. And so I applied for every design job under the sun in Edmonton and got nowhere. Like, nobody, no interviews, nobody was interested in hiring me, nothing. And what I came to realize, because Edmonton's a bit of a smaller city too, is that my certificate kept being beat out by diplomas and degrees. And so it was at that point in my Life, I was 24. I thought, okay, what am I going to do next? I can go back to school and get my design degree or I can do something different, do something else. And the only other thing that I was interested in doing at that time was marine biology. I was really good at biology as a kid. Into university. I love the ocean. Like it's a huge passion of mine is ocean conservation. So I was like, well, I can take this passion that I enjoy doing and go be a marine biologist. I, I literally applied for this design program and had submitted some applications to Dalhousie University, which is in Halifax, Canada, which is on the east coast of Canada. And I was like, okay, I'm going to just submit these things and I'm going to figure this out. And what I did is I had submitted these applications and I dropped off my portfolio at the University of Alberta for their Bachelor of Design program on my way to the airport because I was heading to Thailand for a month to backpack with a friend. So I literally just was like, again, confetti to the wind. I was like, I'm going to throw these options out. I'm going to see what lands.
- [15:29]
I'm trying to think which part, which sort of which dare to is yours in this episode? Because the thing is there to explore. Dare to be curious. There to not overthink it maybe or just basically don't overthink it. I can't. I'm not even there to keep it simple because like that openness. Because you said you work for an architecture firm and you were the only designer and you did quite a lot of different things and then you said a few years later I was 24. I'm like, wait a minute. So you're 20 odd. 20, not 20 odd years and you're working as the only designer. You don't really have that much prior experience. You've got pretty much open canvas or blank canvas, do this, do that. I'm not sure we should talk about how good was the first website you designed from the company.
- [16:14]
It was trash. It was trash. I can confirm it was not good.
- [16:18]
Dare to give it a go.
- [16:19]
Dare to say fuck it.
- [16:21]
Yeah, I was kind of amazed that you said I was doing this thing, but I didn't enjoy where I was working. Normally people don't quit because of the work, they quit because of the environment. Because you can always find a way to make the work enjoyable. So how was that as an experience? Because you got your opportunity to try everything, to be excited and it sounded like you burned those matches really quickly because that's the beginning of a career. But a few years later you're like, actually, I really like the ocean a bit more. Say with the job, what really happened?
- [16:56]
Yeah, that's a really good question. I think it was again that I'm. Because I'm so curious and I like to do a lot of things and I like to do a lot of things well. And I really throw my entire self into everything that I do. I don't like to, I don't like to half ass things and I don't like to just dip a toe in. I'm like, if I'm going to do this thing, I'm going to do it and then we'll see what happens. And I think it got to a point where working for the architecture firm, I was really looking to grow. I was really looking to do more and see how I could like level up and learn more there. But I had met my cap of what was possible at that place and there were some conversations where essentially I was told that I talked too much, that I asked too many questions, and I was really just there to produce what they needed. So it was kind of, that was really the point where I'm like, okay, well I can stay here and continue to do this cyclical design work of annual trade shows and signage and doing the things that I've already been doing for four years, or I can go down a different path. And I think the marine biology was by Hail Mary where I was really hurt and I was really upset. That was the ending of that job experience. And then I was also frustrated that I couldn't find any other design work. So I was like, well, I just must be like the shittiest designer on the planet then, because what else can I do? So marine biology was something I enjoyed as a passion and was like, well, fuck it, I'll go try this.
- [18:41]
So you said quite a few important things. You said you were looking for space to grow and that space wasn't coming, the space wasn't there. And was it being taught? You speak too much. Some people are just grumpy, right? But you said one important thing. You said I asked too many questions. That's the part of when you want to grow, when you're willing to grow, that curiosity comes in. Because asking question is gold. It's free. Like, you can never run out. You can never have too many questions and too many answers. There's always something more to find out. And that to me goes naturally hand in Hand with growth, dare to ask a question, dare to ask as many questions. And in your case, you don't have to regret asking those questions because you ask too many questions to the point you realize I've answered my own questions. It's a way out.
- [19:31]
Yeah.
- [19:31]
Is that door I.
- [19:34]
That's the one way I think I've, at least since early high school, I've lived my life where I don't want any regrets. I don't want to get to the end of my life and have any regrets about, oh, I wish I would have done that thing, or, oh, I wish I would have tried that, or, oh, I wish I would have just sent that email or whatever. And that's just the way that I work where, yeah, I'm going to send out an email, I'm going to send out an application, I'm going to try this thing I'm going to do that probably won't work out. I think 80% of the things probably more that I've done in my life haven't worked out. But I can confidently say that at least I tried.
- [20:18]
That's a perfect segue because we can take us back to the airport when you go to Thailand, because I wanted to ask you, like, how do you fill that time between taking the first step of the action and then waiting for the outcome? Because sometimes that's relying on somebody else, right? That there's the time. And you have. Sometimes you have to wait. You got two options. You can either eat yourself alive waiting or you can forget about it and just carry on. And I believe that's exactly what you did when you applied for things. You went to Thailand with no signal.
- [20:49]
Correct.
- [20:50]
That's one way to actually not get worried about what might be avoidance. So take us to Thailand and what happened?
- [20:57]
Okay, so literally on. And the portfolio was the last step of this application to the University of Alberta Bachelor of Design program. So I was on my way to the airport, I dropped off my portfolio. And at the time, portfolios were still major, like physical pieces. So I had a physical portfolio with physical works in it. And I remember that I walked up the stairs to this room where we had to drop off our portfolios, and I opened the door and I signed in and I went to give my portfolio. And I remember seeing hundreds of portfolios in this room. And I remember thinking, well, okay, then at least I tried. So I honestly did not have high hopes that I was going to get into this program because again, with my experience at this architecture firm, I thought that I was just A shit designer. I thought I was like the worst designer. So I was like, okay, well, I'm not going to get this. That's okay. I'm just not going to worry about it. There's nothing I can do. And then I went to Thailand and Thailand was just a holiday. It was a month of backpacking around the country with one of my really good friends from high school. And we didn't have service really at all. There was a good chunk of the trip where we were in some national park that didn't even have like electricity. So it was just literally a month of I'm not gonna worry about it and when I get back, I'll deal with what I deal with. Because the timeline worked out as such that when I returned home is when I was supposed to hear about acceptance into this design program or not.
- [22:39]
I think there was something about portfolios, those fake leather bound cardboard pieces that on the outside they were quite neutral because you can have 50 designers with their cases unless they had some snazzy stickers on it. Everyone was equal. Like, it was actually in a way quite anonymous. Like your creativity, your genius was still bottled in. Maybe it was still hidden in behind the sleeves and then somebody else got to validate it. So you didn't feel necessarily unless you told yourself that narrative that you are the worst designer because somebody who looked cool with their cool portfolio might have been totally rubbish. But we didn't really, we didn't color new. So I understand that from your experience from architecture firm, you thought you were the worst designer in the room. But that was just a narrative you invented, right? Because that's how you felt and you didn't really, you didn't really have a sort of external validation from anybody else, did you know?
- [23:34]
Because again, I was the only designer at the firm and I had started working at that firm right out of graduating from the graphic communications program. So I did. I had a very limited experience. So this narrative for sure I built in my own head just from my limited experience working for one firm and seeing my other designer friends getting jobs and then applying for the same jobs they were applying for, but not getting even interviewed for them. And so that I think is what led me to build up this narrative in my head where, oh, I just must be a trash designer because nobody wants to hire me. All I can do is get an in house gig for an architecture firm that doesn't even want me to really design. They just want me to produce. We'll be back after a quick break.
- [24:21]
Radim Malin
This episode is brought to you by Lux Coffee Co. The first creative specialty coffee company building a platform to shine the light on emerging global talent with a mission to make a positive impact on the creative industry and beyond. LAX Coffee Company offers exceptional coffee sourced from around the world through ethical and sustainable practices and you can discover the current range of signature blends and single origins coffee hardware and accessories along with extra exceptional apparel@luxcoffee.co.uk you can use the code podcast to get 15% off your.
- [24:58]
Amelia Nash
First order two questions, maybe all packaged in one so what did you put in your portfolio and what did you do for your portfolio to become better? Did you do self initiated work, did you work on your craft and did you try to improve or were you more sort of preoccupied getting a job and hoping to grow in a job?
- [25:27]
Yeah, I didn't do any upgrading to my portfolio, which now in hindsight I probably should have. But I included the work from my NAEP program. So the program, the graphic communications program that I did, I included work from that program and I also included work that I had done at the U of A previously, because my first year of post secondary was at the U of A doing French and theater. But just by chance, just by happenstance, I'd actually taken the fundamental art and design courses just for fun. And I did really well in design. I really liked it. But still, again, at that point I didn't think that was a career really, and so I included some of those projects as well. So I had projects from my previous design courses at the U of A and then the projects that I had completed at nat. That was my portfolio. I spent no time doing fashion projects. I spent no time upgrading my portfolio. I just put it together and submitted it.
- [26:35]
So you came back from Thailand, you submitted two applications, you had no signal. You arrived and then what happened?
- [26:44]
And then I got a letter from the University of Alberta saying congratulations, we've accepted you into the Bachelor of Design program. Which was amazing and made me feel, okay, maybe I'm not as trash as I think I am. And then an even bigger bonus was the program is technically five years. The first year you have to do the fundamental courses before you can apply into a visual communication design stream or a industrial design stream. But because I had already done all the fundamentals my first year, I was able just to go straight into the visual communication design and start my first of the four years to get my degree.
- [27:27]
Oh Faber. Well, at least you saved yourself a year.
- [27:30]
So I saved myself a year. Just confetti in the wind. So There you go.
- [27:34]
Confetti in the wind. So the marine biology never happened. You started doing graphic design. Then you, as you would say, confetti in the wind. You did all sorts of different things, graduated, did work, freelance work, all the way to the point where you find yourself in the middle of the pandemic, sat in Edmonton thinking, is this it? Is this what life is? You ask yourself the next set of questions for you to grow. And that brought you to New York where you are now.
- [28:09]
So it's funny because that journey after the U of A to New York was actually identical to my journey from Nate to the U of A. So I graduated from the U of A and then same thing. Right after graduation I got into an in house design job at an insurance company and I was part of their marketing team. So I was a graphic designer for the marketing department of this major insurance corporation. And same thing. Couple years went by and again was told that I asked too many questions or I pushed back on things. And it's the same conversations, the same conversations were happening where again I was happy with the work that I was doing, but I was not happy with where I was working and not happy that I couldn't, I felt like I couldn't grow, I couldn't evolve, I couldn't move up. And I, I just, I've learned, really, I guess in this span of time, I've learned that I don't want to just do production for production's sake. I. Design is a problem to be maybe not solved, but thought about. And so I found myself in the same situation. And yes, then we got sent home because of COVID And so I was working from home and Edmonton is like a prairies city. So I remember I was sitting in my office at home and I was looking out the window and it was just gray. All you could see was gray sky. And I was looking out this window and I was thinking, I don't know what Covid's all about, but if this is the end of the world, this is really what I want to be stuck doing. And the answer was a resounding hell no. I don't want to be sat here doing this, miserable people not taking me seriously. So then I was like, okay, what are my options? Well, I can't get another job right now because it's a pandemic and people are losing their jobs. So what can I do? Well, I can freelance. I've been, I'd been freelancing since Nate. So I was like, I can freelance, I can work for myself. So I started to make a more serious con concerted effort to do that. So I started freelancing a little bit more on the side. My this was March 2020. My goal was that December 2020 I was going to quit my job and start the next year fresh and freelance. I ended up getting so much clientele that I was able to quit my job in August. And I am so lucky and so like privileged and fortunate to have been able to do that. And the reason was because people were losing their jobs so they had to start their own thing. And I was able to help small businesses and help mom and pop shops and help startups do this. And so that was the niche that I really started getting into is being like, hey, branding is important. Branding is a strategy. This can elevate your presence to clients. Let me help you get there. That was a niche I went in. And so I quit my full time job literally several months into the pandemic and everyone thought I was crazy. Everyone thought I was out of my mind because I'm leaving this like cushy corporate job with health benefits to just do my own thing. But I did. And so I started my own branding studio and did that.
- [31:41]
I realized how easy to say, well, how easy to say in hindsight could you not see it coming working for insurance company where you asked too many questions when you look back, like that's a history of repeating. The key to your success is that you found people in pandemic who were asking their own questions. They were like, what can I do now? I mean, there's a lot of creatives who feel a little bit guilty about saying, hey, actually I had a very good pandemic, like, pandemic was good to me because if you were there with the right heart and the right sentiment and the right sort of set of questions, like, how can I help you? What can I do for you? Potentially, like, we're not here to make ton of money, but we had to start new creative relationships, business relationships. Things change. Like a lot has changed. And I had lots of people I've spoken to and I said some of them unfortunately had bad pandemic because they were potentially with a specialist. And it was Tim Thompson who said it on this show. He said, look, you've got creativity and you've got talent. If you're talented, you might be replaced because you're too niche. Whereas if you're creative, you can pivot at any time. You can find solutions. And being creative in a pandemic is, hey, this thing called a doesn't work. Maybe we need to invent things called B or C or D. And I the number of weird business ideas we had with my studio, like we were replicating, we were building lots of stuff in 3D. I literally I nearly started a business doing 3D visualization because all of the photo studios were closed. Like we could use those tools in a creative way. And I think that was the exciting part because you can jump where you need it. We can jump when you can invent that next stone where you can jump on. So I think it was quite exciting. But you finding yourself obviously being from that impression of gray skies thinking is this it? I can't imagine how morbid that is. If this is the end of the world, I'm not taking a sitting down.
- [33:32]
No. Because I don't want to die with regrets. What's the worst that's going to happen? I don't make it and I have to get another job. Okay.
- [33:41]
But again you didn't quit a job necessary because the work was eh. You just quit it because you were asking too many questions and they didn't like it. And I think this is the best way of finding your way out asking questions. Because if I got it right that you listen to Debbie's podcast and when Debbie signs up a podcast she says this was recorded with not at the SVA and you're like maybe I should apply for sva.
- [34:04]
So I was running my own branding studio. I was working with clients and my whole ethos with that was to empower others through brand because again I didn't want to be production. I didn't want to work jobs or work with clients where they just wanted me to produce stuff for them. I wanted to actually empower them and help them to use design to build a brand to fulfill their own dreams. And that was going swimmingly. I was doing that for I bet, I guess just almost two years and and then same thing. I was trying to reach out and expand and do this for other types of industries. I was trying to get larger clients. But I had hit a knowledge cap with what I knew about branding where I knew that I liked branding and I knew that branding was really interesting to me and I liked the strategy behind it, but I had never learned it in school. It was something that I fell into and then self taught the fundamentals of and again like I yeah I listened to Debbie Villman's podcast and at the end of her podcast this film recorded Masters in Branding Studio the School of Visual Arts. And I was at this moment in running my own stuff that I thought, okay, I need to learn more. What's the best place to do it? It's going to be at the Master's in Branding program. It was like the first and only program of its kind. And I was like, well, I'm going to apply for that. And same thing. I did not think I was going to get in because who, who am I? This small town Canadian girl who doesn't know shit about branding. But I thought, I'm going to apply and I'm going to use this as a practice run. I'm going to apply, I'm not going to get in because I know it's competitive and I know I have nothing to show. So I'll do that and then use it as a training experience so that I can button up my portfolio and make a kick ass application for the following year. And so this was towards the end of December, so it was around Christmas that I, in 2020 that I was listening to the podcast and it and was like, okay, I'm going to apply to this. And then I looked into the deadline and the deadline was January 15th. And so I was like, oh. I was like, okay, well I'm definitely not going to get it because I hadn't even started anything. I. You have to get letters of references, you have to get your transcripts, you have to get applying to post secondary graduate studies like you, you have to put together a comprehensive package. And so I hustled my ass and I spent the next two weeks putting everything together, was able to submit my application on January 15, like literally the last day of this deadline I submitted and then I got an interview and I was like, oh, okay, that's exciting. And the interview went well. I again didn't think that I was going to get accepted into the program because I didn't know anything about branding. Like they were asking me questions like, oh, like, why do you like branding? Why do you want to be a brand strategist? And all these things. And I'm like, yeah, I couldn't tell you, but I'm just interested. I think it's fascinating and I want to learn more. And then it was about, I think a day after that interview, I got a letter from the School of Visual Arts saying, congratulations, we've accepted you into the Master's Brain program. And I didn't believe it. I, I honest, I'm still like in shock. Just that whole trajectory where I was like, how did I, how did I get here? How did I fool them? How, how did I Get in. And so I was over the moon. And this was early February. I was over the moon. I was so excited. I was like, oh, my God, yay. And then I was like, oh, I have six months to actually get there. It. We're in a pandemic. I have to move to New York, a city I've never been to before. I have to get the funding. And so then it was like six months of how do I actually make this happen? Thing inside of me where this voice in my head is always, just try. What's the worst that's gonna happen? And I think that this ambition and this force of resilience inside of me to do things. I do think a lot of that stems from me being, at least in the past, not so much anymore. I consider myself like a recovering people pleaser, but I know a lot of that stemmed from being like a people pleaser, where it's this kind of backwards mentality I have, oh, I have to get this task done. Because if I don't get this task done, I'm gonna let down or disappoint. So. And so. And I think in retrospect, the person that I'm gonna be disappointing in letting down is myself. And so I've just always had this drive to be like, anything that I'm interested in, anything that I'm curious about, anything that I wanna learn, I'm gonna do it. And I might not become a master of it. I might not do it well, but there's so many opportunities out there and so many things you can be creative with and so many amazing people and so many talented humans. I just want to try. I just want to try. And I'm not so concerned with the outcome.
- [39:36]
I like that because even though you said you're recovering people pleaser, that I'm trying to sense, like, the little feedback that you've got, like the feedback loop that you're looking for. Because it's like living in a moment. We can talk about people pleasing and the reasons for that, because it's. Oh, never really that good. But I'm liking this. I'm liking this. How it's all about. Yeah, the present moment is, let's do the right thing, let's do the right job. Because ultimately that must be one of the ingredients or sets of ingredients. Why you could be navigating the nature. As Oliver Jefferson said on this show, be like a river, don't be a rock. River will always find a way. Whereas the rock will try to stand. Stand still and not move. And I Think the unknown sometimes scare people?
- [40:27]
Oh, yeah, absolutely. It's terrifying. I'm still so terrified to put myself out there. Like, I. I still have to force myself to talk about my own accomplishments. That's the thing that is my biggest holdback right now. I have no problem going out there and trying anything. Like, I will try mostly anything once. But talking about that and talking about the things that I'm doing or the things that I've done or this crazy journey that I've been through. Oh, man, that. That's the thing I'm afraid of the most, is that.
- [41:05]
Oh, is it just being Canadian?
- [41:08]
Oh, maybe. Yes. We're full of stories and we're overly polite, so it could just be the Canadian in me as well. But, yeah, I think that I've spent a large part of the things that I do in my upbringing and into my young adulthood, like being so concerned about other people and what other people think. And that's where a lot of that people pleasing comes from. Getting into a point now in my. There, it's like life is just too short. There's. There's bigger fish to fry. There's so many of the things that we obsess over and so many of the things that we're like, oh, like what if. And yeah, I can apply for a thing and then sit in my living room ransacked with worry and never move forward until I hear back or I can just let it go. I'm gonna apply for this thing and now I have no control over it. So what's the point in worrying? What's the point in getting anxious over this? I'm just gonna let it go and then I'm going to move on to the next thing. And everything, in a weird way, will connect itself in a way that it's meant to for me. I would equate my. Not even just my professional career, but my life to where you have a garden and every season you're planting things, and some things grow, some things don't. And the things that don't grow, the things that you've outgrown, you're going to weed away and make space for something new or make space for something different. Different seasons produce different crops, different plants, different flowers that you can sow and. And some things you're gonna plant in the spring and not see them blossom until the fall and vice versa. So I think being in motion and because I'm so easily bored, I just think that's definitely been my MO now. Not to say that I haven't had my fair share of disappointments, of course, but I give myself one day to grieve. I give myself one day to grieve where, yes, I feel those feelings, I feel those emotions, and then I move on. And it's either going to be like, okay, what do I re attempt this? What can I do to improve this? Or was this just not the right time, the right place, and not the right opportunity for me one day to grieve.
- [43:15]
I've never had anything like it. It's interesting, like you just time boxed it and say, you know what? We're gonna snap out of it in 24 hours. How did that come about?
- [43:24]
That's a really good question. No one taught me that. I think it's just been something that I've been incorporating into my life more and more, especially these last handful of years, because I used to spend way too much time on things that didn't matter where, okay, you wouldn't get the gig, or somebody that you really wanted to be friends with doesn't want to be friends with you, or your parents disappoint you, or you didn't get accepted into this thing. I just think that worrying about something that you don't have control over is detrimental to your health, detrimental to your mental space. And so over the last handful of years, I've just been like, oh, yeah, this was disappointing, or I really wanted to get that, or oh, this person doesn't like me. Ouch. Okay, grief, get through the emotions and then tomorrow's a new day.
- [44:20]
I absolutely love it, absolutely love it. It's really good. It's very healthy attitude because some of the things just live in your mind for free just because you allow them. When you think about it like you're, you're dealing with disappointment, potentially anger. Within 24 hours, we can switch on and off anger. Like we, we can be super angry, answer the phone to whoever go, hey, how are you doing? All right? And then go back to being angry, which proves us to fact, like, hey, actually, you know what, you can control this stuff. Some of the stuff, like no emotional reactions, sometimes we cannot control them. I can give them some time, but your space to work it out in 24 hours and tell yourself that's it. Again, takes us back to that beautiful analogy of regarding. That's such a healthy way of looking at it because yeah, not everyone thinks about it that way because sometimes that is quite helpful to create it as a sort of semi identity for a while and go, hey, this is not happening and this is not good. And I've got a whole beef with the LinkedIn with talented people at the moment. Everything's unfair, and this is not quite right. And I see slightly from. Not cynical, but, like, from a realistic point of view, like, you've got a chance to navigate your career. You've got a chance to build your garden. You have to attend to it every day. And you don't really blame anything, or you don't blame the rain, you don't blame whatever, because you look after it. You make it happen to what you want it to be. And in your case, I think this is absolutely fabulous because you don't want to live in regrets. That's what you said earlier. I don't want to regret these things. And you're going to sort it out within a day.
- [45:56]
Obviously, there's some. Sometimes it's more than a day. Right. But I try not to give myself too many days to just wallow. I don't think wallowing is productive. And it took me a long time to get to this point. It took me therapy, of course, and it took me not suppressing my emotions, because I think this evolved where I used to just shove everything down because I didn't want to be disappointed and I didn't want to be hurt. And now it's evolved into, no, I'm going to give myself the time to feel all of these emotions because this is this really wonderful quote that I have from Glennon Doyle that I have pinned up on my wall that says, being human is not about feeling happy, it's about feeling everything. And that's the way in which I want to move forward with my life, is I want to feel everything, do everything, try everything, because I don't want to be on my deathbed being like, damn, I really wish that I had the courage to pursue that thing.
- [46:56]
Some people are happy just with that little patch. And there's people like you. And I go, and I've grown my patch. What else is there? What else is beyond that? What does that taste like? Can I have a bit of that? Can I have a bit of this? As you said, there's a lot of other things to try and explore, and that's sometimes more rewarding because having a broader view and broader feeling of creativity is so much more just satisfying, in my opinion.
- [47:23]
Yeah. And the way I look at it is many people don't make it to the last mile, probably because there's some people who don't have the same level of maybe ambition to make it that far. But there's also so Many different paths. Right. We might all start on the same path, but a few of us maybe end up on the same trail at the end. There's. That's the way I look at it too, where there's just so many things to explore and so many ways in which something can be done that the way in which I do it is going to be so different than anybody else. And that's what's so beautiful and unique about humanity as well, is we're all, we're just all doing our own thing and trying to make it work. And for some people, doing production and doing a 9 to 5 is exactly what they want and exactly what they need and amazing more the power to them. My life, I'm like, I just want to try it all, I want to do it all. So yeah.
- [48:17]
And I think when you use that beautiful sort of analogy of paths and trails, because sometimes when you go to Wide Trails has been stumped over a million times. When you look to the rest, when you look to the left and to the right, there's this sort of narrow path. There's only a few people have been. And that takes you somewhere completely different to discover completely different view. We have definitely got lost from going to New York to sva, to whatever we just got to. But I think it was a beautiful term because ultimately whoever might be listening to this might be happy in production. In 9 to 5 is the element of self acceptance. I am okay doing what I'm doing and this is my way. Because sometimes at 9 to 5 it's a lot less bumpy. Like it's a lot easier. It doesn't cause you many headaches. And some people would choose that, you know, like thinking about. I'm thinking sometimes I have a conversation with people about like how many people they studied with and how many people already are doing something different. And I think some of the poster creatives from the mid 2000s, early 2010s, some of them are employed. Some of some of the biggest talents I've seen in my generation are working for Apple, for other companies. They're doing that. I'm thinking, I haven't had to get that job yet because I'm just exploring and I'm afraid of a totally different career, which is satisfying because people say don't order the same meal twice because you might be disappointed the second time. So having that sort of linear same career, maybe people run out of wanting to order the same meal again.
- [49:51]
Yeah, I think stability is a beautiful thing too. Stability. Of course, lots of people out there that's what they need, depending on their lived experience and where they came from and what type of upbringing they went through. Like, stability is precisely what they strive for. I don't know if maybe I just have more of a hunger for chaos or what, but I just, I don't sit well in boredom. Again, I don't know what that necessarily says about me, but I just. There's too many things that I want to explore with my time on this earth.
- [50:20]
I think being from small place where there's not that many confetti in the wind gives you that drive. Maybe being on the outside of it and going right in the epicenter makes you want to. Makes you want it more. You've got some people in the epicenter who really live there and they're inspired by. They want to stay there. Some people want to get the hell out of it. But I think that's the beautiful sort of ability of our lives right now. For most of us, and we are lucky that we can say for most of us is that we can do that. You can change. Whatever you don't like, you can change. You don't have to complain, you don't have to moan. You can change. You can get exactly what you want from this life. Because I think most of us are very lucky that we can do that. We've taken you totally off track and obviously I'll have to let you go in a minute, but you've gone to sva, you study in sva. Not only you've stayed there, you're in charge of the marketing, obviously in charge of the socials. You work with Debbie, which is having a fantastic loop to the close. Not only listen to the podcast now, you work with her, you're doing all of the amazing things. You work for Print magazine as one of the writers which again just became part of your curiosity. You were planting these seeds here, there and everywhere. And I have to celebrate your career because from where I see it, it makes perfect sense. And we need people who are talented, we need them to do the thing over and over again because we need some of that stuff here. But on your sort of personal discovery, it wouldn't be if you were not doing your river like movement, you finding your own ways and pockets of ideas. We wouldn't be speaking here because you and I met through some of your written work and it was a nice opportunity to say hello. It was like, ah, that brought us here all the way to the point where I think second time, second to last time I saw you was in Toronto for the Design thinkers. And I think you know where I'm going with this now, because when I saw you, you hired a car that was from. It looked like it was from gta. It was the Rockstar's car. And when you say, I want to try everything, I don't want to have regrets. It all makes perfect sense, because who drives a crazy gangster banger to Niagara Falls? I guess it's only you.
- [52:33]
Oh, my goodness. Okay, so, yes, just to fill in, any listeners who are unfamiliar with this story. Yeah. So the last Radom and I hun out was at the Design Thinkers Conference that the RGD puts on in Canada in Vancouver and Toronto yearly. And my friend and I wanted to go see Niagara Falls, and we needed a car. And one of the more affordable cars was this purple wrapped vehicle, which. Purple is my favorite color. So I took it as a sign. I was like, yeah, I love this. Let's go cruise this purple thing to the Niagara Falls. I did not realize because it was not shown in the pictures that when we picked up this vehicle, this car had these star promo film production decals plastered all around it. So we're driving this obnoxious vehicle to Niagara Falls. We actually got pulled over, not because of my driving, but because the vehicle was obviously an eyesore and a cop decided to pull the plates and the vehicle was not registered. This vehicle that I had rented off of Turo, which is basically the Airbnb for cars, ended up not being registered. And, yeah, so that was a whole other. That was a whole other journey. But that's just. That's, I guess, just how I live. I live my life.
- [53:57]
I'm definitely here to make a graphic design connection with that story, because purple is your favorite color. Is your favorite. There's a purple color. There's a purple color car. But it's these little things. They're absolutely invaluable because not only we can do whatever we want to do, but we can obviously forge these friendships and with people who are on a similar path and similar mindset, because ultimately, we are daring to explore our expression, we are daring to ask questions, and we are daring to share it. So, Amelia, thank you for sharing your time with me today and, yeah, for sharing your story. It's been magnificent.
- [54:31]
Thank you so much, Radha. It's always a pleasure speaking with you.
- [54:34]
Thank you.
- [54:45]
Radim Malin
Thank you for listening to this episode of Daring Creativity podcast. I'd love to know your thoughts, questions, and suggestions. So please get in touch via the email in the show notes or social channels. This episode was produced and presented by me, Radim Malinage. The audio production was done by Neil Mackay from 7 Million Bikes Podcast. Thank you and I hope to see.
- [55:06]
Amelia Nash
You on the next episode.
- [55:29]
Radim Malin
If you enjoyed this episode and would like more accessible resources to help you discover your daring creativity, you can pick up one of my books on themes of mindful creativity, creative business, branding and graphic design. Every physical book purchase comes with a free digital bundle, including an ebook and audiobook to make the content accessible wherever.
- [55:50]
Amelia Nash
You are and whatever you do.
- [55:52]
Radim Malin
To get 10% off your order, visit novemberuniverse.co.uk and use the Code podcast. Have a look around and start living daringly.