← Daring Forever (Find your Extraordinary)
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- [00:11]
Luke Carson
The way I am, the way I think, what attracts me, what doesn't attract me. A big thing that he always teaches is trusting your intuition, your gut. He never had schooling. There were no rules to break. It just is what made sense to him and communicated. And you know, as you know, it came with a lot of hate mail in the early days. We came came with a lot of, what is this crap? But he never, never second guessed himself. And I think that's an approach that I've always found useful for my life, is trusting my gut. Take that risky trip without knowing where you're going. Buy those jeans that you found in Japan, even though they're a little out of budget, because you really believe in the brand and the person making them. Those are smaller decisions, but again, that intuition aspect.
- [00:59]
Radim Malinic
Welcome to the Daring Creativity Podcast, a show about daring to forever explore creativity that isn't about chasing shiny perfection. It's about showing up with all your doubts and imperfections and making them count. It's about becoming more of who you already are. My name is Radim Malinich. I'm a designer, author, and eternally curious human being. I am talking to a broad range of guests who share their stories of small actions that sparked lifetime discoveries, taking one step towards the thing that made them feel most alive. Let me begin this episode with a Are you ready to discover what happens.
- [01:38]
Interviewer
When you dare to create?
- [01:48]
Radim Malinic
Today, I'm speaking with Luke Carson, a creative producer and a brand strategist who represents his father, legendary graphic designer David Carson. While forging his own path at the intersection of design, sport, and culture, his work involves curating authentic brand partnerships that always prioritize genuine creative connection over commercial convenience. In this conversation, Luke discusses how surviving Hodgkin's Ly Foma at 18 taught him how to find beauty in struggle and how basketball courts became his therapy and community. He also opens up about the challenge of working with family while maintaining creative independence, why he chooses travel experiences over material possession, and how his New York upbringing shaped his instincts for what makes culturally relevant collaborations work. It's my pleasure to share with you my conversation with Luke Carson.
- [02:44]
Interviewer
Hey Luke, welcome to the show. How are you doing today?
- [02:47]
Luke Carson
Doing well. Thank you so much, Robin. Thanks for having me. I'm really excited to be here.
- [02:52]
Interviewer
Likewise, I think we'll have a lot to unpack today because of what you do, who you are, where you grew up. Your short career so far is already packed with so many things that we can share with my listeners. But for those who may have never heard of Luke Carson, how would you introduce yourself and what you do?
- [03:10]
Luke Carson
Yeah, definitely. Thanks again for having me. It means a lot. It has been a short career thus far, just getting started. Originally I actually studied film at Chapman University in Southern California. And actually one of those courses that I took towards the end of my senior year was called Agents and Managers. And we got to learn and shadow a bunch of agents and managers and more specifically the Hollywood scene from a movie, from actors and directors, you name it, and representing those specific talents. But it really struck a chord with me. And then specifically I was always really fascinated with my upbringing around not only New York City, growing up here in Manhattan, playing basketball at a high level, I played literally all throughout my life. Played at the collegiate level for a little bit as well. And it's still a big part of my day to day. Even as of last Friday, I was bringing up in my headquarters. It's a big part of my routine and it's opened a lot of doors up for me in terms of the people I've met. And so actually from that course in itself, the first gig that I landed out of school was to work for caa, the town agency, to potentially become like a basketball agent down the road. But it didn't really make a lot of sense out of school because I was self sufficient, didn't have a ton of money in the bank account and I don't know how much you know about the town agency role, but when you're an entry level, they call it the mailroom and there's really no money to be had. And it's an absolute grind for years before you can even see a penny. And I don't have the luxury, or I didn't have the luxury of just like stepping into a trust fund or you know, having endless money to just hit my bank account the second I graduated. And rent in LA is expensive, so I just figured out other ways to build a more steady income. And then in 2022, December, I want to say is when I approached my father, David Carson, the legendary designer, to come on board and help him with special collaborations, brand partnerships, ideally get him into artisan residency programs, which we're doing a lot of this fall and early next year, because again, he sees himself more of a fine artist, as do a lot of his fans. And so that's a really fun avenue. And so that was kind of my schooling and my training from a career perspective was learning how to navigate a father son relationship and also just being a fan of the work and having a good understanding of Culturally, what would be a good fit at that point? In early 2023, all the way up until now, and moving forward in 2026, just culturally having a good pulse on the brands and just people that make sense for his career. So that's been a really fun challenge and I think is unique to my upbringing, specifically growing up in New York City and then walking this fine line of basketball fashion and just growing up around artists. My whole family is full of professional artists and graphic designers.
- [05:59]
Interviewer
So this is fascinating. My first question, and I want to know about basketball. What was it like? The love for the game. At what point did you know I'm going to be shooting hoops for quite a while.
- [06:10]
Luke Carson
I have videos. I actually just pulled one up pretty recently and posted across my Instagram. But of just me when I was about four or five years old, we had actually just relocated outside of New York when 911 happened and we moved to a place called Isla Palms, which is in South Carolina, outside of Charleston specifically. So my mom was down there, my dad was down there, my sister and I were down there. And I found this amazing footage of me playing back then, which was definitely an early sign that I was pretty hooked. But I do remember that Eureka moment. I think it was pretty evident by fourth or fifth grade that I clearly could play thanks to my dad. He put me in the LeBron James camp. So I played at the LeBron James camp and won best shooter award as a 10 year old, which was pretty ridiculous. And then the next year at 11, I won the MVP of the camp for my age bracket, which was like a two year age bracket. And so that's where things started to really click. I think there was one other story where I won an MVP at a camp in South Carolina a few years earlier than that, when I was probably 8 or 8 or 9. And my dad was absolutely stunned because he didn't expect me to get an award because all the names had been written off and he didn't think that MVP was even left. He just forgot about it. And then he was like, wait a minute, my son's about to win this. So that was a cool first interaction too, but along with an answer to say, actually sixth grade. So let's say when I was about 12 years old is when I decided to drop track and build. I played one year of football as a sixth grader, dropped everything that was not basketball and just pursued that full time. So, yeah, big part of it.
- [07:45]
Interviewer
I always say I do have the habit of asking people about their beginnings, about their families and as you said, your dad is David Carson. And we spent most of this conversation so far talking about your basketball and your track and field and all of that stuff because obviously you grow up around someone who's been such a prolific and important person in the graphic design history of this, of this planet. Really. What was your way of being inspired by this? Did you ever feel the pull from a younger age into being sort of working into exploring creativity? Because it's so far it sounds more like you spend more time running around getting sweaty and rubbing hoops.
- [08:22]
Luke Carson
Yeah, definitely. I think I've always been the curious one. I've always admired film photography. I've been shooting out of contact T2 for quite a while. I think my general curiosity as a youth bled into my career and my day to day now. And it's really interesting at my age of 27, spending time with my dad or spending time with my mom and I noticed the same tendencies that we all have when it comes to signage on the streets, typography on a side of a building or a jersey or for an album cover. And just that childlike curiosity is like a always been within me. I've always liked specific teams from very early age because of their jersey design, the color palettes and things of that sort. And I think that's always stood out to me. I think I have old Instagram accounts that I made for myself of just numbers of typography of numbers that I like throughout New York City signage, whether that's on a garbage can or on someone's front door. So I think it's just always been in tandem. And growing up in New York, especially with my mom specifically too, I mean, she has such a good eye. She's more of an iPhone photographer day to day, but she's just always going above and beyond to take that quick shot, very abstract image of a basketball dribbling people interacting in New York City. I mean, she just always caught such raw footage of our life growing up in New York that I think it just was ingrained in my DNA.
- [09:52]
Interviewer
You mentioned your mum. What does she do? Is she creative?
- [09:55]
Luke Carson
Yeah, she's a graphic designer. She actually submitted two different types of fonts that were used in ray gun and beach culture when she was still a university student. So she designed her own fonts that she made one of, one when she was in her early 20s and just off a whim sent them to my father without expecting to ever hear back. And he went on to use both fonts. And I'm not off top of my Head. I won't know the name of the two, but I just received a magazine and it's called Ideamag. And David did the COVID of Ideamag. It's a famous Japanese mag from the late 90s. And there's an entire spread on my mom's portfolio in it and a feature about her career and how she was recognized by AIGA 30 under 30 as a graph designer. So her first gig out of school, after she dropped out of CalArts, she was there for her master's program, but because of a pretty severe earthquake, she ended up dropping her master's program and just started immediately working for David Carson design in her mid-20s. Her, I guess, graduating class, if you will, were famous designers and artists like Jeff McBride, a dear friend of hers to this day. And so she came from quite a class from that era. And again, those two type, those two fonts that she designed ended up in the most influential magazine at the time. So she's a great designer. And I think one of my favorite quotes from my dad, even though they split at a young age, that he always said she was the best designer he's ever worked with. So that's a really cool token for her.
- [11:28]
Interviewer
Of course, that's a real compliment. You're thinking about what you've been describing. This is, you got love of film, we've got New York, we've got photography. And I'm like, okay, so what is the love story we actually drawing here? And yeah, it's all started with a font. Yeah, it was like, how do you make two graphic designers get together? Well, design a font. And from designing a font, you never know where it might take you. So that's really interesting. So growing up in New York, you mentioned that you guys moved out after 9, 11. A lot of the life in New York for the medium of film, to see a lot of movies, you see lots of different facets of New York and kind of stories. What was it like to live through it first, especially through such an important time of American history?
- [12:09]
Luke Carson
Yeah, I was just about to turn four years old, so I was on the younger side. However, ever since that moment, I even remember in my fifth grade courses, art classes, that I was drawing twin towers and contributing it to a lot of my portfolio work throughout middle school and even high school. For some reason, I just had this strong, strong obsession with New York. I think that's a really unique perspective of New York City in general, is that I'm not the most patriot person when it comes to America and the politics and the current standing that we're in. However, I'm a very, very proud New Yorker, and I'm hopeful that we can kind of push the needle and change the course of our country's legacy, if you will, in the 2025, 2026 lens. So I do think, to answer your question, like, from a very early age, I felt this really strong sense of unity and pride to be from New York, to have come from that situation at hand. The film. There's insane photos that my mom took of me on our roof in the West Village overlooking Twin Towers, days before the event. And then she has video footage of the aftermath or while I was currently happening, and she can relive those stories very well. And so that's also kind of part of the family history in some capacity, and there's no real way of knowing or telling, but it is really interesting because there is no genetical connection to my cancer diagnosis. As I mentioned earlier, Hodgkin's lymphoma. It's very possible that it was because of 9 11, because the black smoke was in our apartment so deeply. And I have family friends who have actually won court cases in 911 nonprofits in terms of getting some sort of compensation because there was no other linkage to their diagnosis. So I feel a real strong sense of connection to that catastrophic moment.
- [14:00]
Interviewer
You know, that sounds like a tragedy within a tragedy because. Yeah, before we started recording, I asked you about your cancer, and I wanted to know if it's okay to talk about it, because you mentioned it was your 18th birthday, which wasn't exactly the celebration that you wanted.
- [14:16]
Luke Carson
Yeah, it was actually the Halloween, and then my birthday was about two months later, so I would have turned 19. I remember I had chemo. I had my third round of chemo on my birthday when I was 19 years old. So that's. Yeah, not. Not the best way to celebrate. But I also look back at that time, and I'm almost, in a strange way, indebted to it. It taught me a lot that school, friendships, girlfriends, family haven't been able to teach me. And it's just a sense of. I mean, of course, they have in some capacity, but there's another underlying impact that that experience had with life and death illness, quite literally being as pale as you can imagine. No eyebrows, no eyelashes, bald head, you know, just the whole nine, where you're just completely. You look like a cancer patient. And to see that and to look in the mirror at 18, 19. Oh, my gosh, you don't wish that upon anyone. And So I did find myself losing my grip, even when the sights, or I guess the goals were near and clear in terms of my cancer cure date was around the corner, which later became May 1, 2017, after five rounds of chemo and 21 days of radiation. But even with that site in mind, it became obviously a very daunting experience once I had a little bit time on my hands to just take a step back. And so one of the things that I did was that I worked with a tutor and improved my college testing scores in order to get into dream University. And I improved my score by over 400 points, which then ultimately got me into my dream film school. As I mentioned a bit earlier, the third in the country, just behind NYU and usc, found some beauty in the struggle, which has actually been a consistent life lesson to this day, is if you're still chugging, you're still. There's still life to be had. There's something there for you. You just got to believe and you got to focus on the small win day to day when you've lost your way a bit, you know, and so there's endless lessons from it. And I'm very, very proud of that experience, very open talking about it. I've spoken to cancer patients and families at large scale in front of several hundred people here at NYU because I leaned on people like myself when I was in that position to get real insight, to get real advice, because it was almost impossible to get a real connection with. Someone hadn't walked that walk before.
- [16:37]
Interviewer
You. You mentioned you were losing your grip, but I didn't expect that in your next breath you would just say, well, I was working with a tutor to improve my scores by 400 points and therefore do this because life changes. You got your diagnosis, your life as you knew it. It was always going to change forever. And what do you remember being that sort of guiding light, even though obviously you get yourself in the mirror and go, okay, this is not the person I remember. Yeah. A few months ago, how did you give yourself that view on things that you can make it. You can find positivity in the darkness.
- [17:08]
Luke Carson
Yeah, definitely. I think it's funny. It comes down to a couple of things. Number one, the relationships I have, I realize how lucky I am and was then to have deep, deep friendships. Another pro of New York City, especially if you're a bit of an extroverted person, is you're going to meet a lot of people quickly and a lot of people that care deeply, too. It's a very passionate place to grow Up. And so I was. Even though a lot of my friends were away at their first year of school or in college, I mean, or their second year in university, I had a dear friend who I went to high school with who was just then becoming a senior in high school. So he was still based in New York City. And he's still to this day a close friend of mine, Jacob. And Jacob is a major influence on me as he became the youngest director level music executive at the age of 25. 5, which is ridiculous. And he's just turning 27, then he works at Sony. And so, yeah, he was just such a major influence. And then obviously people like my mother, even though she had to work and yeah, everyone in the family, of course, you know, so just leaning on those relationships. But then what I wanted to say also that we talked about earlier was basketball. Jacob, he wanted to distract me in any way possible. So he would get me to Knicks games, we would play NBA 2K, the video game, to like simulate our favorite players. Or he would quite literally force me in the best way possible to come to his practice, AKA my old high school, where I graduated the year prior. And he forced me to at least participate and watch the practice and rebound and pass the ball to people, even though I was quite literally had a beanie on and not one strand of hair anywhere in my body. And so he wanted me to just be there. And it kind of comes back to this, the impact basketball has had on my outlook on life and to this day. It's really interesting. Whenever I've been in a rut, I zoom out. I talk to a therapist and I realize not playing as basketball as much as I like to, and then once I get that back into swings, it's really interesting. Everything starts to click. And that's kind of been the case for the last two or three years, playing a ton.
- [19:15]
Interviewer
I like when you said that if you're extroverted, you get lots of friends. In New York, I spoke to people like Talia Cotton on this podcast and I was asked about the New York confidence when you're surrounded by these type of people, like, is it something that you grow up with? Is it something you need to learn? And I think it's just that the surroundings that rubs onto you and just gives you that feeling that as you talk about your friend Jacob, it's so inspiring just to have someone to really root for you and just say, hey, look, we're going to get you through this. This is going to happen.
- [19:43]
Luke Carson
Definitely. It's this pridefulness and all it's one of the reasons why I have friends always ask me or people I've dated, they're like, are you going to leave New York ever? And I can't. I can leave for months at a time. I did Japan for a month. I went to Vietnam the year prior for a month. I travel pretty much every month. I'm really thankful for that experience. I just love, love, love to travel, put myself in new positions. However, New York City's always got to be home base. I can't get away from it. It always pulls me back. I find something new each week. It adds an extra chip on your shoulder because if you can make it here, it's really cliche, but you can make it anywhere because it is so freaking expensive here. It is tiring at times, but then you find out how to navigate it and then it becomes a very almost peaceful place. I remember coming back from Tokyo and Japan to hear sirens and people screaming and craziness. It was very comforting in a way, which I didn't expect because Japan was the quietest place I've ever been to.
- [20:45]
Interviewer
We'll be back after a quick break.
- [20:48]
Radim Malinic
This episode is brought to you by Lux Coffee Company, the first creative specialty comfy company building a platform to shine the light on emerging global talent with a mission to make a positive impact on a creative industry and Beyond. Lux Coffee Co. Offers exceptional coffee sourced from around the world through ethical and sustainable practices. And you can discover the current range of signature blends and single origins coffee hardware and accessories, along with exceptional apparel. @luxcoffee.co.uk you can use the code podcast to get 15% off your first order.
- [21:35]
Interviewer
Those are not elements of therapy that you would require. Is it like sirens and screaming? But I think there is something about once you grow up in a city, you need that urban noise. You need those elements. Because I remember living somewhere which was quiet, literally, and which is only at the other side of town. And I was like, something's not quite right. This is suspiciously too quiet because you need that hub, you need that bus because it makes you believe that you're close to the important things. You're close to people, close to the energy. So, yeah, I know what you mean. Coming back and we get it. In London, you just hear the sirens. I used to live near, used to live near hospital in London and that was busy, noisy. But yeah, I know exactly where I am in the world because I know something's happening. We're going to take you to the film school because I want to Know how you ended up there, because now I know that you work with a tutor and in darkest times to improve your scores and get there. But what was the motivation in the first place to actually go into film school? And what was your film influences?
- [22:34]
Luke Carson
The first one that got me, that I'll never forget was Lehane French film from 1995, that actually struck a chord in me when I was 14 years old. One of my dear friends, who's someone I've known since I was about six or seven years old, he's another very strong figure and influence in my life, Conrad Lenski. Conrad's an amazing creative producer. And Conrad's older brother used to win quite a few VMAs back in the day and MTV awards for his music video direction. And so he had introduced us to a more niche, raw film experience from a very early age. I think that was a big part of it. And then through that, I was always very inspired by music video direction. And then growing up in New York City, one of my best friends, Dad's in his heyday and his 90s and 80s runs, was a prominent graffiti artist. And so all the video, VHS footage of just going into the subway tracks and documenting people skateboarding and also drug usage and just the rawness of New York, I really felt compelled by more documentaries specifically, and Lehane kind of feels that because it pays tribute to a real situation, which was police brutality. And so, yeah, I think that was absolutely eureka moment. And to clarify a little bit, I got to Chapman. That was the name of the school, and the film school is called Dodge, and it's within Chapman. And so the way I realized and got the inside scoop was if you wanted to get admitted to Dodge the film school, you needed to at least get into Chapman, keep a straight A portfolio, and then apply internally. So then after one full year at Chapman, playing basketball on the team and taking all sorts of courses, but then also taking courses that I was interested film related wise, then I kept my grades at a 4.0 straight A's and then went to the film school. But as you can imagine, as you understand, it's still the same place. So I got to finally dive deep as a film major by sophomore year. And it was the first time in my life I can truthfully say I took school very seriously because I wanted that creative outlet badly. And I liked what stood out to me actually most about Chapman's film program were the creative entrepreneurs that came out of that school at a very young age. And to this day, people that I rely on call on for big production shoots, whether it's. Yeah, I mean, I can go down the list for the type of brands that they work on, and they're younger than me in some cases, or a little older in the 25 to 29 ballpark, which is pretty surreal, the level of expertise this film school produced. So that was a really attractive quality.
- [25:19]
Interviewer
Very interesting that you've chosen that you've named one of the heaviest, darkest French movies I've ever heard of. Because it's actually. It's come up the other day in the press again, it says, why was Lehane so important at the time when he came up? Because I don't remember specifically any of the story, but I remember the heaviness, the grittiness, the energy of this. And it's amazing what a body of work that is, because when you create a lasting impression, it's just. That is the masterpiece of filmmaking. Do you remember how you felt when you watched that movie for the first time? Because it's interesting. We talked about New York, and I was expecting. I didn't know the answer, so I was like, what is it going to be? And you've taken it totally somewhere else, which is amazing.
- [26:01]
Luke Carson
Definitely. Well, I've always been really inspired by the work wear, street wear, apparel. So you think of the car hearts, baggy jeans, Timberlands, really the New York ethos. And you feel that a lot throughout the film of Lorraine. And I think it's also my upbringing around a more creative and graffiti scene. I grew up obsessed with skateboarding. Really die hard on supreme at a very early age. Had family, friend, connections that were people at supreme, so we'd get showered in gifts before that brand became the brand that is today. Like before there were lines around the corner. And so I think it just spoke again to this rawness of Paris and a side of Paris that you don't get to learn about ever. I think that's what was really compelling to me. And then also, I've always been very politically aware and passionate about my stance on how people should be treated, whether your ethnicity, your race, your sexual orientation. That has been a huge, huge, huge part of growing up in New York City is a sense of acceptiveness and loving people for who they are and not what they look like or et cetera. And so I think that was another element too, where I remember going to George Floyd protests and getting on the Brooklyn Bridge at a very young age and stopping the traffic there with friends in high school. Police brutality specifically, I think, struck a chord with me. At a very, very early age, again, I grew up in New York City, so I was open to so many different cultures. Playing in basketball, predominantly, I was usually the only white guy on my team. And I was just seeing how different their perspective in their life was when I'd go back for sleepovers at their house or go to their neighborhoods and play basketball. And it was just a different perspective, but I think, again, unique to living in New York City because I remember we had to leave, as I mentioned, after 9, 11, and we went to a small bubble in South Carolina for a year or two, and drastically, everything changes. And everyone's in these bubbles, and they don't understand these bigger problems. So long gated answer. But I think Lehane just kind of struck chords in so many different elements. And then it was also super cool because Lehane specifically, I saw it when I was 14. I was introduced by a friend. To this day, I trust his judgment on anything film or music related. And so then when I got to the film school of my dreams, that was one of the first films they had us watch and study. I was like, ah, okay, this is clearly there was something behind this. When my friend introduced me to this six years later, and I had a chip on my shoulder already kind of knowing the film. And then fast forward to two years ago. There's a great film theater called Metrograph that my friend's older brother, Conrad's older brother, who I mentioned, is one BMA music direction. His name is Matt Lensky. Matt Lensky is a partial owner of Metrograph, which is a theater here in New York City that shows more indie arthouse films. And so I got to see Lehane on 35 millimeter about two years ago, and I cried. I didn't think I'd ever get to see a film that intense and relevant to my life in terms of the impact that had in theaters that came out before I was born. So to have that privilege is super cool and full circle, I think we.
- [29:15]
Interviewer
Piecing together the streetwear culture, the clothing, the fashion, the music videos, the storytelling, and the grittiness of Lehane. It's such a masterpiece.
- [29:25]
Luke Carson
Yeah.
- [29:26]
Interviewer
And somehow I can piece in that sort of that vision board and imaginary vision board. I can piece of sleep your dad's work. And it's because he was never about clean or pretty. Yeah, no, definitely not always about just sort of breaking rules and doing whatever he wanted. And how much of a awareness did you have of his work? Because it's not difficult to ask. Group of students. Yeah. Who do you like, and they'll be like, almost encyclopedically knowledgeable about David Carlson's work.
- [29:55]
Luke Carson
Yeah.
- [29:56]
Interviewer
And because it's really creative. I mean, for certain people, that's, that's really the, what I would call the blood group. They really understand it. Yeah. And they really relate to it. But for you, were you aware of what he was doing? Because it sounds like your mom was doing similar work. Because obviously if they worked for Reagan and kind of stuff. So what was the awareness like of his work?
- [30:16]
Luke Carson
I think growing up, it was more just father and son relationship. Same with my younger sister. Holidays, Christmas presents, birthday gifts, just spending time together. I think it was more just that as a kid for sure. And figuring out my own lane, figuring out my own curiosities. And then, truth be told, when I approached him in fall of 2022 to say, hey, I would like to give this a shot, I think I have a good grasp on type of brands that you should be working with at this stage of your career. Especially because he didn't have a representative at that specific time. I obviously need to digest the work a lot more. And so that's when I really became a fan and a die hard fan in its own right. And then I also just started to have these wow moments where I was like, wow, this makes sense. The way I am, the way I think. What attracts me, what doesn't attract me. A big thing that he always teaches is trusting your intuition, your gut. He never had schooling. There were no rules to break it just as what made sense to him and communicated. And you know, as you know, it came with a lot of hate mail in the early days. It came with a lot of, what is this crap? But he never, never second guessed himself. And I think that's an approach that I've always found useful for my life, is trusting my gut. Take that risky trip to Vietnam without knowing where you're going. Buy those jeans that you found in Japan, even though they're a little out of budget, because you really believe in the brand and the person making them. Those are smaller decisions. But again, that intuition aspect. Yeah. The last three years have been a super fun scavenger hunt because I've been collecting beach culture magazines, ray guns. I've been. People have been sending me stuff. I've found magazines that I wasn't even aware he worked on. And then we can have these great dialogues and conversations about his experiences during those moments. And that stuff in itself is a really valuable learning experience and gets me even more hooked on the process and not Only that I think what's worked well for us the last two, three years is that, yes, I'm now a major fan and always have been, but it's really now I understand what he's worked on, but what is really interesting and almost luck, but then again, it's in the blood. The Carson blood is I know what makes sense for his brand and his aesthetic. I can't stand all these bigger artist collaborations with big name brands where it's just, let's say, let's put one giant with one giant. And you guys have to take this, you know, you have to enjoy it because we don't know what else to give you guys. And you see the same graphics by the same artist every single time. And it's just licensing after licensing after licensing and there's no more originality. And I felt like from the get go of approaching this work relationship with him, I just knew we couldn't go that route because that's not true to the essence of his brand, if you will.
- [33:08]
Interviewer
So, yeah, this is interesting because yeah, as you said, it's the Carson intuition. It's in the blood. Because one of the things that you have to give to your dad is he's David Carson. He's always been David Carson. He was never anybody else. And he stayed exactly who he was. Because I was chatting to him at some at an event in Mexico and I said, so how are you doing? He's like, oh, look, I've never been busy. Things are still going really strong. And you kind of think that is the biggest testament to someone's career. Because if you really accept who you are, and I think there was no even need that, oh, I'm going to accept who I am because the world is busy. Because it sounds like he started with 0. He got to 1 from 1 to 100 for 1 to 1000. This is the almost linear career. I was like, okay, I'm going to do this, I'm going to double down and really stick to it because he lives and breathes what he does and he doesn't have to imitate anything. And I think that's the biggest gift of being able to do this because as you were saying, you've got brand partnerships but you've got a pretty face and a swoosh or whatever. And it's just, it's more about image licensing as a photo licensing. This is not to speak of any ill of brand partnerships or collaborations, but when I see pretty guys did I think with Michael and recently, and there was, as you mentioned, that there was a hate mail before, but I think there's a hate mail now, but people call it visual pollution because they don't like it, because it's too busy. I was like, this is the biggest compliment. Because in a world which is beige and influences where whatever color of taupe, you're like, let's disrupt it, actually, let's do this. Because I am not the biggest fan of the work, but I'm biggest fan of the man, because the man's become something that is unachievable by some others, because he stands for himself. So when it comes to partnerships, for example, the work you did recently with Rafa, what does the process entail? Obviously, what is your work as a producer? That you stand between the legend and the brand and, yeah, make sure that everyone is happy with what's been made. So how does the, for example, partnership like that come together?
- [35:06]
Luke Carson
Yeah, day in, day out, I'm always going into my own recollection of brand that I admire. Moments in time, stores that have impacted me. The Rafa clubhouse in New York always stood out to me because I grew up around the corner. It's been around, I believe, for about almost 10 years now, if not a little longer. I think first and foremost, it was culturally, is this a good fit? Are the people that I'm talking with and building a rapport with, do they feel like people that get him? Because if it's a forced collaboration, and again, it's just a brand and brand moment that's going to be communicated even in the final product, people are going to feel that this was a bit more of a clickbait moment than it is an actual story. And I think from the get go, they really wanted to understand his ethos, his approach. There were specific guidelines because it was a very specific collaboration. It was to celebrate their 10 years of Rafa Cycling Club. And so there were parameters that came with that. But he loves those challenges because in a lot of cases, people just perceive him as like a throw everything at the palate, take it or leave it. But then he loves those challenges where you see with Macallan whiskey, where you have to really dial in that logo, but you have to make it really concise and celebrate the 200 years of Macallan or with Rafa, you still have to pay homage and respect to the legacy of this membership program and the previous lineage. You don't want to piss off existing customers. You want to keep them engaged, you want to keep them fired up. And then, most importantly, how do you bring in new People. So I think it's always just a tug and pull. And I don't think we've ever gone through with a partnership from start to finish as seamless. In my personal relationship with Rafa, I mean, they're just so lovely. They're so curious. They're so supportive in that regard, and they really wanted to test the boundaries. It was the first time in his history that he had ever placed his artwork on a bike, let alone the price tag of those bikes. And so to get Factor involved and have them produce these upscale cycling bikes was a insane challenge in its own right. And they did such a phenomenal job bringing such a coveted artist's work onto a very delicate and small platform when you really break it down. So, yeah, it's fun.
- [37:17]
Interviewer
1. When you talk about our partnership, I think one of the best colors in the world is that Rapha pink.
- [37:23]
Luke Carson
Yeah.
- [37:23]
Interviewer
There's something about it. And I've got a full T shirt. This literally just Raffa pink.
- [37:27]
Luke Carson
Yeah.
- [37:27]
Interviewer
And it's just the right tone, and it might be the creative mind, it might be a personal preference, but when you see other color. No, not that tone. Not this tone. And when I've seen the kid that you guys did, I was like, oh, that just fits perfectly. Because when you see the details, when you see the movement, you're like, oh, that makes sense. Because you said you don't want to piss off customers. And in the cycling world, it's such an opinionated world. And I can put my hand up. I do understand. I don't understand certain releases. You see brands like Attacker, you see brands like Map who just having their mad face. You know, like, everyone's kind of doing something of their own just to stand out, because it's. Let's be honest, it's a fashion industry. It's not necessarily a sports performance anymore because you could capture collections. No one a minute. It's going big, it's going fast, and there's a lot of it. Therefore, obviously, you need the variations to find yourself where to land. But speaking of those customers, you don't want to piss off with Rafa, especially as opinionated as the English one sometimes. What was the process of actually finding? Where do you get that brand DNA? Where do you get usdo? David does? How'd you build it and how much of. Because you said the process of partnership wasn't necessarily too complicated. But did you approach them to make it happen? Was it?
- [38:40]
Luke Carson
Yeah. Well, first off, one thing that made the process pretty seamless is, you know, David and I We visited the Mallorca storefront, which is a wonderful environment in January. We were there for a different client for a different project. And I said, hey, like, we're about to sign this contract. See if we should go see what this is all about before you dive into the art. And he was like, okay, yeah, I need to see a clubhouse. That'd be great. Love what I've seen, I love what I've learned, but I haven't really felt and felt it. And so then we did site visits such like that. And that just was a kid in the candy store, specifically the one in Mallorca, because people had their families, people were working on graph design projects. There were fans in the store that were riding their bikes and having a coffee. And he said, this is a place I would hang out in. So then that was a really fun experience. And then the way I got Rafa specifically was through a man named Rob B. Who was their chief creative officer. And that's a big part of my role, is figuring out just who are the right decision makers at these brands and then doing a little bit of my own investigation and figuring out, do they get David Carson? Because again, I don't want to ever force something. And there has to be a why and there has to be a connection, and there has to be a moment that's coming up that makes right for both sides, because David is in a position, as you can imagine, where he picks and chooses who he works with. So I can feed all day long, but he's not going to always say yes, because it's got to feel right. And so I got a really great understanding of the Rafa history and where they were trying to take it and how they started off as this more rebellious leaders in the space, and then how they've maintained the bigger scale brand, but now they're trying to continue on with adding a little more flair here and there, while also paying homage to how amazing their product is. I mean, I was blown away getting to see even the T shirts. The T shirts alone are insane. Way better than the streetwear brands that I wear in the States here. And so Rob was a big driving force. And then he teed us off to the rest of the team. And then, yeah, by the top of the year, we just got started and it was again, really seamless experience. And what was really cool about the New York City launch, which I helped execute, we made sure we did posters that people got to take take home a very high quality prints. We made sure that people had their own David Carson graphics that you could then heat press onto existing Rafa materials. So a lot of people came out with one of one Rafa piece of clothing with David's graphic language. And so that was a really fun experience in its own right. And the point being is that they went above and beyond to really make this feel like a David Carson you moment and to get his story out there, which I think is really crucial for this current generation, specifically as we try to navigate the landscape of AI and people getting away from hand on work and so forth. We even recreated the collage he had made two months prior. And we worked with an amazing artist and a friend of mine. She helped us redo the collage on the spot before the party went live. So then you could feel like you were still at the photo shoot that we had just done two months prior, where David made the collage within minutes. So that was a nice little detail again where it felt very intentional.
- [42:00]
Interviewer
So yeah, those little nuances sounds absolutely incredible. You know what I'm going to say next, we need to do, I mean, even though it's been launched and it's out there, we need to bring it to London, we need to do special. I mean, the London Rafa clubhouse is incredible. It's such a lovely space and it's just a place where, you know, where creativity matters. You know, it's design and it's a physical space. It's a 360 brand experience. When you go in and they evolve in their own way, obviously everything changes and we find that change. I felt that's why I thought, for example, the partnership was so good because it just, it felt in a busy world and in a picky world that cycling is, it was something really remarkable. But before we leave Rafa, I want to know about the bike design because it's one of these things that when it's done right, you know it's done right. And obviously I'm very much immersed in the world of cycling. I ride my frames almost unbranded. I don't like writing on them. I just get literally muted colors. But I appreciate what you guys did with Factor because it's something that I can't picture. Look, you said it was the first bike is ever designed. How did you guys go about it?
- [43:11]
Luke Carson
Yeah, definitely. So I think, well, that I gotta give credit where credit's due. Factor design team, their creative director is a diehard David Carson fan. And so when he heard that Ralph and David Carson had a bike idea to do this limited edition bike, they were just so Ready? It felt like they almost dropped everything and said, let's get to work, figure out how to make this work. And so then it just came down to which graphic elements from the hoodie, from the kit, from any graphic, from any product that we release. How can we then morph it into one cohesive design that made sense for a bike? And again, not easy to do. And, Radha, I hear your point in terms of wanting a more seamless, clean, slated bike, and I actually feel like there aren't many colors used. And so it still has that elegance and that sophistication and aligns and elevates the price tag of an already expensive bike. But then it still communicates David's language so well. So I think it was just, again, speaks to the teamwork here. You know, there was three parties involved. It was us, it was Rafa, and then factor, and they just had a field day with it. And eventually we got it to a place where we all felt most excited about. And I can't wait. We have a chrome finish. There's only 11 of those in the world. So I have one of those coming over now. And then David got the original one where they did about 200 of those. So, yeah, really excited to have those in New York City and be riding around. It's gonna be great.
- [44:39]
Interviewer
I mean, some people that followed their sponsored riders and they get the latest frames, latest designs. I remember asking, there's a rider called Safa. Brian, why don't you ride in that particular frame? No, no, no. That's a museum piece. That bike doesn't get taken out because it just. It has to stay safe because it's just. It's so, so beautiful. But, yeah, as you know, I'm a fan, and I just absolutely love what you guys did because it's kind of, as you said, there's not much color used, but it's how you use it, how you do it and getting it right. Because some of these things sometimes take time to even just sort of visually digest because it's remarkable how a bike frame can make or break just the paint job, just how to do that. So did you say, so you got one coming? And so you actually. Would you ride it or would you keep it as a museum piece?
- [45:26]
Luke Carson
But we'll keep one up for now. I'll keep it hanging, keep it safe, at least get it through the summer. But I'm a. I'm a firm believer in using the product. I'm a big sneaker guy. Growing up, both basketball lifestyle sneakers. I never let them Sit in the box, I wear them. And so I see that with this specifically, I definitely want to showcase the work in New York City.
- [45:47]
Interviewer
This is what I say because I ride my, my superbike all year long. Because to be riding SL4 with Tiagra in the winter, just because you got a nice bike in the garage. So just you should enjoy what you do. So I'm with you on that one. Look, I want to talk more about your traveling because you, you coming from a place where people come to you more or less. Everything good will ultimately arrive in New York. But what was that sense of freedom where you can go from a noisy place to a different sort of dynamic and explore because your outlook on life has changed, your gratitude for life has changed through such as horrific experience. So how does the travel feature in your life?
- [46:23]
Luke Carson
I think it's who I am through and through. For example, I didn't have the luxury of growing up with travel. As I mentioned, I'm. Before we started talking on the podcast, going to Brazil for the first time and bringing my mother and her and I haven't had the luxury of traveling together abroad. I think she's only been abroad three times in her life. And so again, just knowing that once I started earning a little bit of income, it's. Where can I take this? I always found spending money on experiences is far more valuable than a nice jacket or a wristwatch, which I don't own, or stuff like that. I'm very. I do and will always care about clothing and the things that I wear. But again, like that flight to Vietnam is more interesting to me than a nice jacket down in New York City, in SoHo. So I think that's kind of a big part of it. And then to the Bourdain note, I grew up on him. We would watch parts and no reservations. I read his book Kitchen Confidential a couple times, a cook's tour. And so watching all three of those shows and watch and reading through his book, I think three or four separate times at this point that was a Sunday tradition. For example, with my mother, it just really got me curious about what else is out there. And because to your point, everyone comes to New York, but where are they coming from and what's that story about? And then that's another thing that my dad has accomplished a great deal of which is travel. He's been to well over a hundred countries now. He's been to the most niche small towns and cities you can think of to be the Sao Paulo's of the world and Paris of the world. That was a really curious to me and that it's just been kind of an addiction ever since I started earning a little money in my pocket since late 2021. So just been go, go, go, go, go. And so yeah, I was in Japan for a month in May. Then I got to do Paris for the first time this summer for Fashion week. We launched 3 2C magazine in Navam as well during Men's Fashion Week. And then I got to go to Zermatt, Switzerland, because I do have a crazy passion for the outdoors in nature. So then I went hiking for five days and then I went to a music festival in Italy in a place called Parma. It was the largest labyrinth in the world, is all out of bamboo. Was this festival called the Lost Festival that a friend of mine was writing about and got us three free tickets to go attend. So I'm a yes man. So I like to just jump on these opportunities when I can. And sometimes if a trip feels too good or feels great and I'll push back my return date a couple weeks, what else is out here? And that's a big part of my life. I'm definitely a bit of a type B planner. I kind of just go off of locals recommendations and then I think my childlike curiosities. Growing up around graphic designers, I just stumbled into cool places. I'm really passionate about furniture. I'm really passionate about art galleries. I'm really passionate about different brands and parks, basketball courts. And so every single big city and a cool place, I'm going to have the fortunate opportunity to travel to. You're going to find like five to 10 basketball courts pinned in my Google maps. And that's also been a really amazing way to meet people while traveling alone in places, Vietnam and Japan.
- [49:30]
Interviewer
If anyone was looking for any way of travel advice, they just heard it. If you're into something, you find your people, you find your tribe. Meeting people for basketball sounds like a one way of perfect way of actually meeting other people. And creativity brings people together in the most fantastic way. But when you said, if the trip is feeling good, I'll push back by a couple of weeks, that's winning the lottery of life. When you can do that, it's a way that you can explore that situation. Obviously, you know how life can be fragile.
- [50:00]
Luke Carson
Exactly. So that's what I was going to say is to that point, I know what it's like to be on a ticking time bomb, if you will, where you don't know what's next, you don't know if you're going to make it through. You don't know how you're going to react to that specific round of chemo. And so I like to keep the gas on the pedal. I have friends to this day saying sometimes you need to chill a little bit. Well, I'm a drinking problem. I don't do drugs. Love experiences. So I'm very active. I like to think I live 10 lives in a Saturday in New York City because I really do. I'll be upstate at an architecture park slash art museum and then I'll make it back down and still go to a friend's gallery opening and then still go out for a dinner with friends and maybe see a jazz show or a DJ set and boom, 12, 14 hour day, 16 hour day and still get my eight hours of sleep and then do it again the next day. And I do that with travel too. Oh my gosh. In Japan I set up about 10 or 10 or so in person meetings that were extremely fruitful people. I was so thankful to meet headquarters. I got to see Uniqlo and Shishido, but I was living these 18 hour days of just full on adventure. And another part of that adventure and curiosity comes from shooting with my film camera. So just keeps me going, keeps me chugging.
- [51:14]
Interviewer
You just itching. Thought of my question because I was going to ask how would you document these things? Because it was going to be picturing all of this together is your influences. The energy is the. Yeah, it's the passion and the gratitude for life. And then we've been talking about the film school and storytelling. So how would you document the trips that you take and what you do with those pieces?
- [51:33]
Luke Carson
Yeah, definitely. It's been a big part of my life. IPhone Photography. I've always had a friend who has said you love taking photos and you have the eye for it. And I have never really considered it. I really thought about it and I kid you not, I'm not just saying I've gotten stopped a lot of times. I've had people message me on Instagram or text me. I can't wait to see you travel to. This happened yesterday. A friend said, I can't wait to see what photos you take when you go to Brazil. And that could be as simple as iPhone photos or videos of moments in time. And I do see it as this endless archive for me personally because I reference a lot of the work or the photos or the videos and the mood boards that I put together, the strategies that I help execute for collaborations, for Work Studio or for David Carson or for my own personal project. It all kind of coincides. I kid around and forget people following me on Instagram because I do post stories quite a bit. You'll see, I'll have a million things highlighted. And my highlight I have so many folders because I do go back and reference that stuff quite a bit. And I'm really excited to have my own website finished before my lecture in Brazil in two weeks time. So that'll be a big part of it. And then it's open doors. So again, my childlike curiosities, my relationships with galleries in New York City have open opportunities where I got to shoot the entire Esposo Gallery, which is a renowned Brazilian furniture gallery based here in New York. They have locations in Paris, London, la and I shot their whole two story gallery that I have new opportunities in that world too to start shooting more for other galleries and York City space. So that's a really fun opportunity in its own right. And then as you know with film cameras specifically you don't get that instant grat gratification. And I've found that process really fun because for example, I had my There were two moments when I My first client for David Carson Design was Stussy. We did a six piece collection with Bam. Sold out in 72 hours online, globally. Major moment. We did a big launch at Dover Street Marketing here in New York City and I didn't realize I had my film camera on the wrong settings. So every single photo for two rolls on such a big day was blurry, super bright and just shit, shit qualities. I laughed that off because I had enough, I think photos, but I think that's such a great experience is like failing in that regard and then making sure you try your best the next time or be a little bit more careful. And that happened to me in Japan. I was just so excited. And three or four of my roles were perfect or in the quality I was hoping for. And then two or three or four, maybe like three of them were terrible. Really bright, blurry because I don't know, I must have jumbled with the camera without even noticing. Just pure excitement or maybe was trying something new one day and then forgot to change this thing. And then I failed on a few of those roles. But again, there's beauty in it. Super fun experience. Definitely. I'm a big documentary as you know.
- [54:29]
Interviewer
One of your dad's stories is that he created Nine Inch Nails cover because somebody used the wrong chemicals in the lab on his photography. And it was just that sort of happy accident. So I'M sure that your photos that he didn't get quite right. He was obviously gleaming, thinking this is a potential opportunity to do something with it.
- [54:46]
Luke Carson
I love that story. I love that. Yeah, I feel like again, another just intuition, you say, oh, this actually works, this mistake.
- [54:53]
Interviewer
Absolutely, 100% right. Look, I mean, throughout this conversation, I don't really need to ask you, what would you suggest for people to do? I don't ask people for advice. But you said you work with cancer patients. As a survivor, what is the one thing that people look for at the darkest times that you've learned that is almost a key to content life?
- [55:17]
Luke Carson
I think just a belief system. That's the biggest thing you gotta believe, you know, you gotta have hope. A story and a lecture I won't forget is I actually went to a sustainability design conference called Sea Changes and it's based up in Burlington, Vermont. And this woman was the environmental advisor for Barack Obama all eight years. And she said the only way we're going to be able to get through anything from a climate change perspective is hope. And you have to have to follow through with that hope, with action. And I think before I heard those words and saw that lecture, I was walking that walk from my cancer experience. But then when she had said that, it was kind of this eureka moment of okay, that is actually my DNA and what I've learned through this experience. And so when you're through those darkest of times, there's so many other things I've gone through in my family's history. And so just figuring out what is that light at the end of the tunnel and focusing on the good around you and feeding into that is a huge, huge push forward and yeah, and just having fun with it too. What I'm still trying to learn, I have so much to learn. But one of, one of the things is not riding the highs too high and not riding lows too low either. Just trying to stay level headed. And that's what's been really fun working with my dad. We've done some amazing projects together, have done things and travel places I never expected, connect with people that I never knew I could connect with. And it's open wonderful doors like joining this incredible creative studio called Works. A big shout out to my dad for introducing me, Joe Perez. So yeah, really, really cool opportunity to just continue to do what I do best, which is connect people with artists and creatives and brands, add my own flair to it with my own photography, my own art direction, my own creative direction and then just trust my gut. You know that's a big part of it.
- [57:02]
Interviewer
Intuition, hope and action. This is what I'm taking away from this conversation. Luke, thank you so much. What a beautiful words to finish with because it's. It all makes perfect sense. So thank you for joining me today. What a great conversation. Thank you.
- [57:14]
Luke Carson
No, I really appreciate you having me. It means a lot.
- [57:26]
Radim Malinic
Thank you for listening to this episode of Daring Creativity Podcast. I'd love to know your thoughts, questions and suggestions, so please get in touch via the email in the show notes or social channels. This episode was produced and presented by me, Radim Malinage. The audio production was done by Neil MacKay from 7 Million Likes podcast. Thank you and I hope to see you on the next episode.
- [58:03]
Interviewer
Foreign.
- [58:10]
Radim Malinic
If you enjoyed this episode and would like more accessible resources to help you discover your daring creativity, you can pick up one of my books on themes of mindful creativity, creative business, branding and graphic design. Every physical book purchase comes with a free digital bundle, including an ebook and audiobook to make the content accessible wherever you are and whatever you do. To get 10% off your order, visit novemberuniverse.co.uk and use the code Podcast. Have a look around and start living daringly.