← Daring Forever (Find your Extraordinary)
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- [00:11]
Stephanie Scott
This is actually why I miss painting, even though I do in many ways prefer doing the digital illustrations. But there's this beautiful flow that you get into when you're painting where, like, you can feel the weight of the paint in the brush and you know exactly when you need to dip in again, or when, like, it might drip, you have to pull back a little bit or, you know, change the trajectory of your line or whatever. There's just. It sounds so cheesy, but it's that connection with the medium. It almost becomes a dance, as odd as that may sound. Just going up and down the ladder or dipping your brush in the paint and going back to the wall and moving everything a foot down the wall, then going back to it. There's so much more to it than just recreating a design on the wall.
- [01:07]
Radim Malinic
Welcome to the Daring Creativity Podcast, the show about daring to forever explore creativity that isn't about chasing shiny perfection. It's about showing up with all your doubts and imperfections and making them count. It's about becoming more of who you already are. My name is Radim Malinic. I'm a designer, author and eternally curious human being. I am talking to a broad range of guests who share their stories of small actions that sparked lifetime discoveries, taking one step towards the thing that made them feel most alive. Let me begin this episode with a Are you ready to discover what happens.
- [01:46]
When you dare to create foreign.
- [01:55]
Stephanie Scott
Today.
- [01:55]
Radim Malinic
I'm speaking with Stephanie Scott, an artist and designer who creates large scale murals that transform corporate offices, restaurants and public spaces across North America. Her work bridges decorative art with contemporary design to tell stories rooted in community nature and timeless symbolism. In this conversation, Stephanie discusses the creative philosophy behind designing work that thousands will see daily, the challenge of avoiding trends while staying relevant, and why she deliberately avoids having a signature style. She also opens up about a psychological pool of overwork, the dance like flow states of painting, and why she believes human creativity will always have something AI can never replicate. It's my pleasure to share with you my conversation with Stephanie Scott.
- [02:51]
Stephanie, how are you doing? It's good to see you.
- [02:53]
Stephanie Scott
I'm good. How are you?
- [02:55]
Radim Malinic
I'm well, very happy to see you and I want to find out more about what you do, how you do it. So for those who may have never heard of Stephanie Scott, how would you introduce yourself?
- [03:06]
Stephanie Scott
I'm sure there's many who have not heard of me. I would say I'm an artist and designer. I work a lot with large scale mural installations, both hand painted and digitally designed that are then printed and installed. But I do art in so many different formats. It's not just large scale. I do a lot of poster designs, designs for editorials. I've done identity design. It really does run the gamut. When I'm not doing client work, when I have any sort of little pockets of free time, I like to sew. Usually just my own clothing or tailoring and things like that for friends and family. But that's another outlet for my creativity. So it kind of goes beyond just the large scale type of work that really does dominate my portfolio. There's a lot more to it.
- [04:02]
Radim Malinic
Excellent. For those who are potentially paying attention, there was another Stephanie on this podcast who finds herself in the same town city as you. And when I got to meet you, I met. I got to meet Stephanie Butari and I was like, wait a minute. So there's this place called Waterloo and Kitchener, or Kitchener and Waterloo, if I got it right. And there's two muralists, they are both called Stephanie, and they are both very busy actually creating murals for the city and beyond. And that always brings me to my observation that how come Canada per se is so into murals? Whenever you go to Montreal, when I go to Toronto, it's everywhere. And I always try to find out, like, what are those large sort of pieces as a sort of antidote, what do they offset? Is it the. The architecture? Is it the hard edges of neutral buildings? Or how do you see it from your view?
- [04:53]
Stephanie Scott
I actually didn't really consider that Canada had more murals than other cities or other countries. I'm not exactly sure. I think you brought up a good point with the architecture because we don't have the rich history that other countries have. Our big cities don't have that type of as much of that grand architecture and things that are really of historical importance. So perhaps public art is a way to really create some sense of culture in these. These newer cities. I'm not exactly sure. I do think it seems to be that in the past 10 years there's just more murals and more of a initiative to really promote public art kind of in any big city.
- [05:43]
Radim Malinic
It's interesting. Maybe it's my tourist eyes, you know, because obviously when you're somewhere, you see things differently, but when you live in it, that's your surroundings. That's what you see it as, being the norm. It doesn't look to you any different. So when you want to talk about the last decade, how long have you been part of creating these public artworks?
- [06:02]
Stephanie Scott
Yeah, longer than a decade. I fell into it around 2012. And I should specify that a lot of my work is not public. I only have a few pieces that are exterior murals or in public spaces. I guess there is one public space in Kitchener that you can see a ton of my work in, but most of it is kind of hidden away. But yeah, I've been doing it since 2012. A friend of mine worked at a startup and they wanted a mural in the front entrance of their office. So they were looking at a few different artists. But I pitched an idea, not really feeling confident or anything like that in my large scale design capabilities. But they liked my idea and hired me for the project. And at that time in Waterloo region there was a lot of tech startups. So that's what this company was, they were a tech startup. I can't remember if I specified, but they then passed my contact along to another tech company that was just getting off the ground and they wound up getting a lot of interest investor funding over the next few years. So I did a mural in their first space and as they kept expanding, they would call me back to do something in their new office or the new floor of their office or whatever. So it really just happened very organically. And I did also do chalkboards around that time because chalkboard art seemed to really be having a resurgence or a renaissance of it or something. It was really popular in the 2010s.
- [07:43]
Radim Malinic
So what was really interesting, what you said about you putting your name forward for this mural and said I was not confident about. But that's totally acceptable when you think about it, because you haven't done this before, because you haven't done the repetition or you haven't grown the muscle of the experience. And it's interesting how we look back and see our experiences going, what have I done? Why was I not confident? Well, because you haven't really started yet. So what I want to know is the discovery that you are actually able to paint a wall so well or paint a mural, or paint large graphic so well that you have actually the belief in yourself that you can do it. So how do we trace back your skill set? Not the confidence, but the skill set to actually starting creating large scale pieces.
- [08:28]
Stephanie Scott
Well, art was something that I was always interested in. I think I got lucky in that regard, actually having something since as long as I can remember, something that I was actually really interested in and passionate about because I know a lot of people don't have that. And I think I would be extremely lost without it because even with it I feel quite lost at times. Yeah, so since I was a kid, I really enjoyed all kinds of art, but especially illustrating. And my parents were really supportive and encouraging of that, which is another thing I got lucky with, because, again, a lot of people do not have that. Kids, generally, parents will be encouraging of any interest, but once you start to get older, if you're, hey, mom and Dad, I want to, like, be an artist for a living. There's a lot of parents that are like, is that really the wisest idea? But mine were like, go for it. Which is pretty cool. So with that support, I pursued art more seriously, even, like, throughout my teens. So I went to an arts high school. It wasn't exclusively arts, but I should say it had an arts program. So that really allowed me to focus on it more because it was structured to really nurture and encourage those artistic skills. And they offered a visual art, dance, acting, all that kind of stuff. But I was focused mostly on visual art after that. Did a year at ocad, which is the art school in Ontario. When I started painting on walls, that would have been in high school. I had the painting capabilities at that point through, however, over a decade at that time of taking art classes. I would do art classes in the summer, you know, all kinds of extracurricular types of things. So I had enough skills at that point to be able to reproduce an artwork well enough. I suppose I should say in high school, they did teach us a lot. My artistic skills drastically improved throughout high school. We had some really amazing art teachers, so that was a huge asset. I would not have grown in that way if I had just gone to the high school that was in my district. So that was a huge help.
- [10:51]
Radim Malinic
So I want to talk about something you said a while ago, because you were talking about art, and sometimes you said I would be lost without it, Sometimes I'm lost with it. What sort of type of art and visual nourishment were you getting through those years that pointed you towards pursuing this? What was that guiding light inside you that you wanted to explore?
- [11:11]
Stephanie Scott
Well, I think it encouraged me to experiment with different styles. And then also, I think it was just an environment where it was okay to kind of let your freak flag fly. That's what the arts program was like. So I think just the environment of it really helped me figure out who I was at that stage. I mean, I was a teenager. You don't really know who you are. But I think there was a lot of the external social pressure that I think felt in elementary school and junior high school was gone. But, yeah, I think a lot of it had to do with, obviously, the exposure to different mediums and the art history that we would learn. Understanding different periods of art, all of that really got me excited about it. But it was also just being in an environment where it was cool to do this.
- [12:11]
Radim Malinic
It's interesting when you mentioned about social pressure because it does sound like you had a time to take a deep breath and actually enjoy what you were doing. Have I got it right?
- [12:21]
Stephanie Scott
Oh, yeah, totally. That was a good experience. I cringe a lot when I look back at myself and who I was during that time because it was so fine to just be a weirdo. I just ran with it in. In terms of clothing I would wear or just. That was a big part of it. Yeah, the clothing I would wear. But it was a good period of time to kind of experiment and get that out of my system.
- [12:48]
Radim Malinic
But I mean, to be honest, I think we should never look at ourselves, at the pictures from any time because you think, oh, I look cool. And then you look at, in five years time, what was I wearing? 15 years time, like, what was I wearing? You cannot really look back because, I mean, it was really interesting. You said a word, weirdo. You can be anyone when you're that age. And I think this is the most magical time because you can't go and sort of try to undo those choices because those choices are coming from a brain that's not developed. And then you realize, you know what? That's the playground, that's the sandbox. That's the good stuff. That's the place to get lost.
- [13:21]
Stephanie Scott
It's true. And I felt most people go through that in their teens, some type of rebellion or experimentation or just letting loose their teens and early 20s. And I felt I certainly had that as well. But it was so different. It wasn't hard partying and doing stupid antics. It was wearing really flamboyant clothing. I don't know, even just some of the art that I would create, it was different. We'll be back after a quick break.
- [13:52]
Radim Malinic
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- [14:39]
Well, I mean, that's our development road, that's for sure. So how do we then fast forward from, you know, flamboyant choices and the love for sewing and creating your own clothes and art and history of art and painting. It takes you to creating light skin murals, but all sorts of other creative work. And what's really interesting about your work, do you do more offices and interiors and lobbies and that kind of stuff? So let's talk about the approach, because to you, obviously seeing murals is not that unusual. To me, seeing murals is a little bit unusual and to me could be potential, almost a way of introducing the concept of daring creativity into that thinking of, okay, let's do something not just for ourselves, but actually for the benefit of the others. Because when you think about it, the client commissions you because they got a vision. It's a two point conversation, two point exchange. But then that outcome, final piece gets seen by sometimes hundreds or even thousands of people. So it's like, how would you then create that conversation that almost takes into consideration some of those bigger pieces. We are creating something for others, potentially without their input, but for, for them. And I'm trying to sort of think, what is that logic and that sort of creative philosophy that would you consider creating pieces for people when they are not always in the room before the work is created?
- [16:02]
Stephanie Scott
Before I dive into that, I should also clarify that I love flamboyant clothing. I just think I put it together better than I did when I was a teen. I should have said that. But anyway, when it comes to designing, yeah, these types of things that are going to be viewed by an audience, whether that's publicly or privately. Because a lot of the private murals I've created still get a lot of exposure. It's just internal conference room where people are going to be viewing them in the background of their video calls day in and day out, year after year, they're in the entrance of these offices where the staff are coming in and seeing it as the first thing they see when they enter the space day after day. So yeah, there's a lot that needs to be taken into account when creating artworks for these types of spaces and these types of people. And some people I work with are very involved in that process. And I mean, sometimes even jobs, they just kind of have a pretty formed brief when I begin. So I'm just kind of creating their vision for them in a style that they've maybe seen me do for other projects. And so I don't really get many jobs like that, though a lot of them I get have quite minimal involvement from the people hiring me. I find there's a lot of scenarios where we need something, we want something in this space, but we're not creative, so we just trust you. Which I find that's when I create the work that I think is the strongest, for the most part, maybe with the exception of a couple other projects, because depending on who I work with, sometimes they can give really exceptional feedback. I would never would have considered that. That's amazing. Yes. Let's please add this to the design. But I try my best to understand the types of people that are going to be interacting with that space, what the community is in that area, whether it's publicly or privately. I just try to go from there and try to go a bit deeper than surface level. Depending on the project, there can be a lot of research involved. So I do a lot of designs where it's almost a collage, bringing together different pieces that reference either things that are important to the people who are hiring me or they represent the community where this mural is going to be installed or painted. But I try not to be super obvious with things. So usually I have the first kind of surface level ideas and it's the very predictable stuff. And then I try to go beyond that and think, okay, well, now that that's out of my brain, where else can we go from here? Another thing is that I don't want anything that I create to seem too trendy or too specific. And I've certainly kind of stumbled into trends before, not knowing they were really trends at the time. And then in retrospect, looking at that and being like, whoa, that piece is very 2019. I'm trying to avoid that because I do want the stuff that I create for these people to have some type of longevity and not really be too closely tied to anything really specific. So I do try to work in things that are related to nature or history, things that have kind of stood the test of time or imagery that's kind of universally understood. And perhaps that's like playing it safe. Maybe that's not daring at all, but.
- [20:06]
Radim Malinic
Well, it's really interesting that you mentioned trends, because I often ask questions and it leads people back to some of the memory lane, to some of the pockets of their memories, going, oh, I didn't think of that for a while, but I just had that moment myself because you were talking about murals and trends, and if I remember it rightly, around 2007, maybe 20 odd years ago, it was really trendy. To have Photoshop artwork printed digitally onto wallpapers and pasted up around clubs and bars and those kind of places. And I remember when you talk about trends, I very much remember that the work back then was very much about particular trend. It was a digital collage. And I mean, some of the pieces, actually there's, I think a couple of pieces still in one of the cities, still in a bar. And I've seen it on Google Images or Google Street View. I was like, how is it still up there some 15 years later? What are you doing? Because it's cringe, right? You look back at your work and you're like, that was definitely trend. Even though, let's say I was potentially at the forefront of those trends, but it was of that time. But what's really interesting, when you were talking, as I was thinking about it, I remember having quite prominent pieces in a bar in place called Gloucester, out of all places. And I remember getting emails from people saying, hey, we went for a business meeting and we ended up talking about your work throughout a whole hour. This is nice. This is very satisfying because you create and you put it in the room. So my question for you would be about a juxtaposition of the feeling of the large scale mirror, which is almost anomaly in that space, and the unexpected reaction from a person because they're walking into a room and that room is not 99.9% of everything they will see, not just in a day, but in even a month. You said that you do research with, you do planning, and you go deep on these preparations. So what goes into the mindset is the level of psychology, neuroscience. How clever do you go about this process?
- [22:07]
Stephanie Scott
I haven't delved too deep into the psychology component of it, only because I know myself enough to know that I would probably never emerge from that rabbit hole, because that is an interest of mine. So I don't think I really want to think about that too too much in terms of creating things. Obviously that's always considered, but I think I could kind of drive myself crazy analyzing every bit of it under a microscope, like through that lens of psychology and how will it be perceived by the viewer and whatnot. So there's not that component necessarily.
- [22:48]
Radim Malinic
It's interesting that you say you don't want to go down that rabbit hole. It's a good answer. The other thing that you mentioned earlier was about cliches. So sometimes I get the cliches out of the way and then you can proceed. And what's really interesting, I think we all Go through our careers, through those motions where you want to avoid cliches as much as possible, until you realize that sometimes you've gotta use the cliche by reinvent it in a way that you have to accept that sometimes that is potentially the only route. So tell me about the process of how you potentially do the obvious and then you discard it. That's how you work.
- [23:25]
Stephanie Scott
Yeah, it's usually in the very beginning stages, when I'm sketching everything on paper is how I usually start. I'll make written lists of everything, Just brainstorm what could be in this piece. And then after I do the written list, I will then do an illustrated list, also on paper, just sketching out what do these things look like that could be in it? So I can kind of have this menu to pick and choose from. So usually I'm getting it out of my system at that point. Sometimes those cliche things or obvious or surface level things are requested by people. So I do try to work them in best way that I can. I like to be accommodating to people. And this is going to be their artwork at the end of the day, like, I'm creating it for them. So if they really, really want to see this specific imagery represented in the piece that I personally wouldn't put in it, I'm not gonna say, no, you can't have that. This is for them. I'm just going to try to work it in, in a way that, again, through my lens. I'm going to try to use my skills or my perspective to incorporate it into the design in the best way possible. And sometimes that's really challenging. There was a job I did recently, it was for a restaurant, and they had specific menu items that they wanted in the mural. And one of them I was having a hard time finding, finding a way to depict it in a way that looked cohesive with everything else. But it has to be in there. It's one of the core items. So I thankfully, I think I did find a way to make it look harmonious with everything. But it was definitely a bit of a creative hurdle for me.
- [25:16]
Radim Malinic
Well, as you can see on my face, I want to know what was the item? What was it?
- [25:21]
Stephanie Scott
Cheese fries.
- [25:22]
Radim Malinic
Cheese fries. Okay, fair play. How do you incorporate cheese fries?
- [25:26]
Stephanie Scott
I know I illustrated them in the same way. I had the regular fries in the design as well. And so I illustrated them in the same way so that it balanced. It was just. What I found tricky was the actual sauce, the cheese on the fries, to make it look similar to the style of everything else, because I was illustrating it in a, I would say, simple or clean, minimal type of way, but being so fussy and technical, but just creatively, it was challenging for me to figure out the best way to show this item.
- [26:01]
Radim Malinic
Well, I can tell you that on your pursuit of not working too trendy, I don't think anyone's going to be stealing cheese fry style for any of the artwork on mural anytime soon. And this is obviously not talking ill of the mural, but when you said you don't have a particular style, you work in a way that's required, you try to reinvent, actually keep yourself still on the pursuit of curiosity. Because some people are thriving in one style and some people can't do one thing twice because they already. They go balls towards the end of the first piece. Your work obviously creates lots of emotional response and feeling of inspiration to those who see it. Where do you go for your inspiration when you don't have to? And again, I will promise not to repeat cheese fries too many times. But when you go on your own inspiration, where do you disappear? In thrift stores, bookstores? Where do you go for your own inspiration? And where do you get that creative inspiration Recharged books, definitely.
- [26:58]
Stephanie Scott
I have so many. The collection just keeps growing and I'm running out of room now. I used to go to thrift stores a lot and find a lot of inspiration there. This is about a decade ago. Even just the labels on things, There was so much to find in the thrift stores. And anytime I've been in recent years, it's not at all the type of selection it used to be. But I would say antique malls have a lot of just incredible inspiration, Whether it's like motifs on things on dinner plates or marquetry and old furniture. There's just so many quilts, tapestries. There's so many incredible things. So I would say history, antiques, the books that I gravitate towards have a lot of that in them. I've been acquiring a lot of books about decorative arts from the dawn of time. Cabinets of curiosities, Just odd, obscure little decorative things.
- [28:02]
Radim Malinic
Do you get to actually incorporate those pieces into work? Because you might be able to say some people love Victorian engraving. It's fascinating, but sometimes it's more about the logic and the idea and the feeling where sometimes you've got very little chance to incorporate it. So can you get those inspirations into your work, or is it more for personal projects?
- [28:23]
Stephanie Scott
I have been trying to work it into projects where it makes sense, but that's been a big hurdle for me over the years because I've been interested in so many different types of art and design and craft for a long time now. And it just. The interest is growing and growing. And so I've tried to find certain projects where it works. Last year, I did a project where it was not a mural. It theoretically could be a mural or printed. I gave them an example of the design as, like a repeat pattern, so it could be applied like wallpaper. But basically it was a design that had to be adapted to both vertical and horizontal compositions and be able to be extracted so parts of it could be standalone by themselves to represent. It was for a university, so it was for one of the offices there. And everything in the design had to be, like, symbolic of their values of the different. Trying to think of way to describe was one office, but they had kind of different components that they focused on. So everything in the design was symbolic of that. And so I chose to go in the direction of decorative arts for that because it seemed to make sense where I could use birds and animals and botanicals, plant life, water, all of these things, and create what. What mimicked the look of, like, a tapestry was kind of what I was going for. And it was all designed modular so that you could rearrange it vertically and horizontally. I'm not describing it to the best of my abilities, and it's really hard to understand just how much goes into a design like that. It took so much mental energy, so much to figure it out. It was such a puzzle. So that's one example of where I was able to bring in decorative arts. And I work other interests into projects here and there. I'm trying to lean more into a collage type of approach, more specifically with mural designs, because I think it does work for that type of application. So I do have an outlet to kind of bring in different styles, because I love creating in different styles. I would lose my mind if I had to do the same thing, the same approach for every project. That's not how I'm made. It would make things so much easier, though. Oh, my gosh. But it's just not how I am. It's not how my mind works.
- [31:04]
Radim Malinic
It's an interesting thought. It would make it much easier. The question is, would it really? Because I think we choose the way we want to operate. We want to create where you can go back for more. Because if I get it right, I think I've heard you once saying that you've got between six to 15 projects on the Go some of the time, which I can relate to. How do you juggle? How do you have the mental capacity, the cognitive capacity to process all of this? I would love to know if you handle these, you know, the multitudes of project in a better way than I used to because it was my downfall once upon a time. But why? Why that number? Why do you say yes and what stops you from saying no?
- [31:44]
Stephanie Scott
Well, actually I read your book Mindful Creative and I was like nodding along to all of it. Oh God, I understand this so well. So right now I don't have that many on my plate and it's making me nervous because I'm just so used to having way more than I can handle that it scares me when I don't because in a weird way, it's almost a safety net. Okay, well, I don't need to worry about finding work then because I'm overloaded. I'm beyond my capacity right now. So this will keep me going for a while, but it's not healthy. And I have not found a way to really manage that amount of projects in a balanced way. I try to keep certain routines as part of my day all the time exercising and eating well and getting enough sleep. Those are essential.
- [32:38]
Radim Malinic
I don't think there is a way to manage a lot because this is the thing. Because it's a two way process. Because you can plan your day the best possible way and you say, okay, I've got two hours for this, three hours for that, you can plan it all out and then something out of your control steps in your way. Okay, well maybe we need this, we need to change this. Or that's changed, all of the planning's gone out of window. And because you've got so many dominoes lined up, it just goes. So it's interesting that you've been nodding to Mindful Creative. And even though that book is written in a way of how do you create optimal conditions for creativity?
- [33:12]
Stephanie Scott
Yeah.
- [33:12]
Radim Malinic
It's so hard to actually align it with the world out, not with the reality and say, okay, everything works. Because it can be so tempting to say yes to so many things, especially if they seem like the right opportunity. Sometimes you got legacy clients, you don't want to say no to them because they've been around for a long time and then you find yourself in the middle of absolute madness.
- [33:33]
Stephanie Scott
I know. And so much of it, because I've had people say you could just hire somebody to help you. And in theory, that is a great idea. And I have tried that before. I tried that with painting a mural. I hired a girl for a couple days to assist with that, but she was wonderful. But it was not financially. I wasn't going to. If I had continued the project with her assistance, I would have run out of money. I would have then had to pay her out of my own pocket by the time I finished. So that's a whole other conversation to be had, though. That was a very complex project. But yeah, there's so much of it that I personally don't think I could hire delegate out to somebody else because it would almost take so much more of my own energy to do that. Where I know how it needs to be done, I'll just do it rather than trying to explain it to somebody else and losing all this time doing that. So, yeah, so much of it has just been. It's better that I just do it and try to figure out some type of structure to optimize that and to get through as much as I possibly can.
- [34:45]
Radim Malinic
There'll be two types of people listening to this. There'll be people nodding along thinking, yes, I do the same. Yeah, no one else can do it as good as me. Or there's no budget to do this. Which will be the old me, for example, and then there's the new me who, you know, had to go through almost. What's the right word? That withdrawal symptom of. Okay, when you used to that frenetic pace of having too many clients, too much work. And then you tell yourself that needs to stop. Your body's craving it. Your body's craving that noisy body is literally like you used to that. It's the physical activity, almost like exercising, almost like brushing teeth. You're used to that on a daily basis. And then your mind and your body goes, hey, we are normally really busy. We normally stressed. We're not stressed today. What's going on? How can I navigate this? Because ultimately what you're describing is that development process. We take on stuff. We could take on too many projects because we don't always try to face other things. Therefore, we overload ourselves with a lot of work. We tell ourselves that we are secure or we need to be more secure because the element of not letting go of control makes us crave that control and makes us add more. And potentially we are compensating for something else that's in our minds, needs the attention while we're putting it away for another day. Okay, I'm going to deal with it some other time. I'm not going to do it yet. Because we get A validation when a new client comes to us and say, hey, there's more work and I like what you do. You feel validated.
- [36:11]
Stephanie Scott
Exactly. It's so exciting. I'm so optimistic at those times because it's exciting that someone wants to work with me and I see all the potential for what I could create and I don't want to turn it down. I see so much potential in it. I'm so optimistic about the idea and a lot of times I have turned down projects that I'm not the right fit for or just I know that I don't want to do. So I have learned from those experiences what I want to focus on, what I don't. And I've said to myself in the past couple years, I'm only going to take on projects that are for someone that I've worked with before, that I know I enjoy working with or are objectively a good opportunity. And in the past year that's all that's come my way. So I didn't feel right about turning anything down that came my way, even if there was a very tight timeline. And doing those projects has helped me get more work with those clients and do scale up in a sense do more digital work, more international work. So like I said at the beginning, I do digital murals as well. That's been a huge part the past couple years is actual digital illustration as opposed to hand painting designs. And I feel like that's really opened up doors for me because I've done projects now at a couple of years locations throughout the states and more remote types of locations and for the types of clients that I wouldn't be able to get locally or the types of projects that I wouldn't be able to get locally. So a lot of those have come with tighter timelines than what I'm comfortable with or a quicker turnaround or whatever. There's a different type of pressure, but it's has been worth it. So maybe I just sound like I'm trying to justify it to myself. Maybe I sound delusional, I don't know. I'm saying it's not all bad, it's not all good. It's a mix.
- [38:25]
Radim Malinic
I think it's a part of a development because you only discovery enough when you can't take anymore on when you're out of capacity, when you can't do any more. This is my enough. And potentially I know where to stop in the future, maybe halfway because there is the power of saying yes is magical because you never know where it takes you. And Potentially, and hopefully no way we painted not saying yes to everything as a bad thing. Because you get some people who are naturally happy to say no to everything. Okay, I just need one of these and I'm fine. And you get people like, you know what? I'm gonna explore it. Because ultimately you've got. The person who says more no to many projects is usually the person who've got their house style who know what they want to do. Whereas as a generalist, as an explorer of styles and explorer of art and creativity, like, what else is there? What else is there? What else is there? What else is here? Because I think that's what kind of keeps the curiosity alive. Because some people are very happy to go down a rabbit hole and stay there and be that person known for that thing, but having the view of what's possible, because ultimately, you know that if you keep going on a straight road, that's gonna take you somewhere ahead of you. But if you decided to take every single turn and no at every junction, you're like, it's gonna take me to somewhere completely different. And you know what? I'll be happy to get there. Because as we've established, person like yourself can't do just that one thing over and over again.
- [39:50]
Stephanie Scott
Exactly. And so much of even just how I got here has been this twisting road. So many detours and exploring different. Many different creative paths and different creative approaches to things. And I just think that's the journey I'm supposed to be on. Even though it can be frustrating at times because it's hard to really plan or really know where it's going to go. But at the same time, it's exciting because I can entertain all kinds of different ideas. I have all these visions of other stuff I want to do that's not even at all related to large scale murals. I feel like I have so much untapped creativity. Where can we go with this now?
- [40:36]
Radim Malinic
I want to talk about it in a second. Because when you were talking about what you do and how you do it, it's quite obvious to start thinking about how does AI come into this? And I think this is potentially one of the most safest creative jobs because there's not going to be any AI painting any murals anytime soon. And if there is, I'm going to eat my words. But it's the handcrafted stuff that is irreplaceable with technology. It's what we've been discussing about how people come into context with it, how people come into contact with it, how they experience it, how they feel it, the people, they create it with all of these checkpoints, all of these contact points, all of our humans creating stuff for other humans. So obviously in a world of uninformed hysteria over AI, which is fluctuating here and now, how do you see the future of your work? And have you ever worried some people?
- [41:30]
Stephanie Scott
Oh gosh, I worry all the time about everything. I'm worried, but I'm not. I am not sure if that makes any sense. I'm not going to stop doing what I'm doing. Maybe I can't ever make a living at it again. And I joke that I would just go be a garbage man or something instead, but that would be the worst job for me because I would just hoard everything. I'd find so many treasures on the curb. I don't intend to stop creating. I try not to think about it too much because if I do, I'll just work myself into a tizzy and spin my wheels and get nowhere. So maybe this is not the best approach, but I just try not to think about AI and I just keep doing what I'm doing without it. Just hope that if I put my hands over my ears and go la la la la la.
- [42:17]
Radim Malinic
I have to jump in. I have to jump in because it's interesting. You say I worry about all the things because the curiosity takes you somewhere else. I had a great quote from Tim Thompson, episode four of the season, who said if you go to talent and everything that you do is based on talent, you should be worried because AI or somebody else can replace you. If everything that you do is based on creativity, you've got nothing to worry about because you will always reinvent, you will always find a way. I think in a way of what you've been telling me, what you do and how you do it. You're a creative generalist. I mean you're an artist and a designer, but you're looking for the opportunities. In fact, you're looking for things how to reinvent yourself even with the same medium. And I think we can all worry about it or we can make friends with AI and find out actually what is in there. Because some other conversation on this series were about the fact that it's a whipped up frenzy that the AI is injected into things that don't fucking need AI at all. It's just basically a way to increase the shareholders price. Because okay, we doing this thing with AI, is it any good? Don't ask us, it's piece of shit, but we've got it. We've got AI in this, we've got AI in that. Slow down, fellas. Okay? It's trendy, obviously, it's inevitable. You need some of this considered, but not necessarily crowbar into everything. And I think there's a common motion that we talk more about AI than is actually being used, because I think we've tried all of the sort of the image generation and video generation. It's a gimmick. It's like discovering the clipart 20, 30 years ago going, this is fun. What is it for? Nothing. Okay. Should we create something real? Yes. And I said, that's how it feels to me. So I don't think you should be worried. I think because with someone like you, we'll always find a way.
- [44:01]
Stephanie Scott
Thank you. I know the episodes you're talking about because I've listened to those recently and appreciated the perspective on it. I don't think I have generally been too worried about AI in the realm of art. I do find it unsettling when it's used so regularly as a personal assistant, and I can understand the efficiency of that. But it creeps me out, the idea of this thought knowing just everything about you, the cadence of your speech, everything is talk to text. And I understand that's how some people want to work. And I'm not trying to seem like I'm knocking them down or anything like that. Me personally, that makes me uncomfortable, though. So there's other aspects of AI that I find more alarming than just creating art, because I've witnessed enough now in the past two, three years of what it's creating and the public perception of that, and a lot of people are not on board with it. So I'm not too worried about that aspect of AI. But tech is terrifying in so many other ways. But that's for a different podcast, that's.
- [45:15]
Radim Malinic
For a different conversation. What I've been thinking about, as you said, people use AI as assistants and kind of processes. And it's interesting because when you think about it like, it can potentially save us time. The mobile phones are here in a certain way to save us time, but the time that we save is wasted most of the time. And I think what's really interesting aspect of using AI and I use in various processes that I've got with clients and stuff, AI speeds up the workflow by hours, by days, but it gives you that void. You didn't have to chew through the bits on each side and kind of understand the brief. And it's nice they can think. AI can sometimes, if it prompted Or I can think how to look around the corners for certain sort of ideas. Great, I didn't think of that. But as you were talking, I've come up with this really silly analogy. But imagine if you were to give a hunter gatherer a supermarket in a fridge and they'd be like, what do we do now? We are used to doing something. This is our mode and we need to evolve into actually using this stuff properly. Because they're like for people who spend most of their day hunting for food. Welcome to the graphic design podcast. Welcome to the podcast about creativity. Talking about hunting coverage. But imagine that that's what they did and we've gradually kind of grown into something. Whereas the speed of evolution, especially technology advancements in the last two decades, three decades, are faster than all the sort of generations put together. And I think we haven't really worked out what's to do with this. I believe there's an incredible sort of advantages of what can we do with AI? But we've got no idea how to use it properly and we've got no idea how to use the time that you can potentially get back.
- [46:58]
Stephanie Scott
Yeah, I agree with you on that.
- [47:00]
Radim Malinic
The hunt, the governor and the fridge. So it kind of makes me think about the fact that some of the uses of AI. And again, this is not to talk ill of anyone who uses it, it goes back to the point of why do we create and why do we care? Because when you see a recipe on a website, say like, hey, this is a salmon tahini, whatever, and you're like, this image is generated by AI. If you do that and then you can spot it and you look at people's websites like, oh, you took a shortcut there, you a shortcut there. I think we almost created the two camps of people who were like, well, you took a shortcut and you do this really well. What are you going to choose? The unrealistic version of dish? Or you're going to choose something that actually is real. And I think that the hunter gavre would be making a sense of a supermarket. I think we are really trying to make sense of what do we do with it and how to do it. Because I think the VC funded world of tech is really fighting for something that of course in certain corners is very menacing, but in a certain way, I think from a creative standpoint, I think the dust will settle soon and potentially the use for AI be used potentially somewhere really well. Go back to my previous question and point. I don't think it will be painting murals anytime soon for Sure.
- [48:13]
Stephanie Scott
I don't think so, though. Have you seen. Friends have sent me videos of some machine that I guess you give it the digital design and it goes along the wall, painting it. Friends, they're like, you should get on this. You should do this.
- [48:31]
Radim Malinic
Never trust friends when they get flustered. So you mentioned that you've got lots of visions, and I think one of your points that you mentioned in your other interviews was that you get loads of ideas on the move, that with the movement of the mind and the body, you get lots of ideas. And what I want to know is the time that you spend painting and having time to think, how does your sort of mental and creative endurance go with this? Is there any point when you're like, I can't wait to finish this mural, or, I don't want this to stop?
- [49:02]
Stephanie Scott
Oh, there's usually a point when painting a mural where I'm like, I can't wait to finish this. It can take a lot out of you physically. Just going up and down ladders or scaffolds, walking to and from everywhere. It can really drain you. So, yeah, usually by the end, everything within me is just stop already. But the early stages of it and throughout, if I'm rested enough, it is really creatively stimulating because I'm not thinking about the design itself. I'm just recreating it so it's traced on the wall. I've got my print out, I know exactly what I'm doing. And this is actually why I miss painting, even though I do, in many ways prefer doing the digital illustrations. But there's this beautiful flow that you get into when you're painting where, like, you can feel the weight of the paint in the brush and you know exactly when you need to dip in again or when, like, it might drip. So you have to pull back a little bit or, you know, change the trajectory of your line or whatever. There's just. It sounds so cheesy, but it's that connection with the medium. It almost becomes a dance, as odd as that may sound. Just going up and down the ladder or dipping your brush in the paint and going back to the wall and moving everything a foot down the wall, then going back to it. There's so much more to it than just recreating a design on the wall.
- [50:34]
Radim Malinic
I think what you just said is just a perfect way of sort of explaining why AI and what you do are so far apart. Because that physical feeling, what you're describing, I can feel it, obviously, what you're describing. I can actually envision this, you know, when you say you're at one with the work, you're in the flow, you feel the weight of the pain throughout what you're doing. I think this is a beautiful sort of eloquent dance of words describing the situation that you're in that exactly talks about the fact why do we create and what do we get out of it? What does it mean for our soul? What's the expression of your soul and what you find in there? Because sometimes it could be long and it can take forever and you like takes physically out of you, but you find that something in it that's irreplaceable by technology. And I think this is why I find it always so fascinating talking to people like yourself. You get to do the bit physically, even though sometimes it really hurts. It's irreplaceable. I think kind of safe sort of argument for the fact that human creativity, when you feel it through your body, is feeling like no other.
- [51:37]
Stephanie Scott
Yes, exactly. And it's a very rewarding experience getting into that flow and pushing yourself to physical limits, to creative limits. I don't know, it's challenging, but also very rewarding in the end and satisfying. And I feel sad for AI that it will never experience that.
- [51:56]
Radim Malinic
Stephanie will find a perfect endpoint in this conversation because I know it's a challenging and it's rewarding as feeling like no other. So thank you very much for sharing with me what you do and how you do it and I enjoy learning more about you. And yeah, never stop doing what you do because you know not many people can experience what you just described. That was the end of this conversation because it's something that just connects with yourself. So thank you.
- [52:19]
Stephanie Scott
Thank you Radhum. I appreciate you having me on Most Welcome.
- [52:24]
Radim Malinic
Thank you Foreign.
- [52:34]
Thank you for listening to this episode of Daring Creativity Podcast. I'd love to know your thoughts, questions and suggestions, so please get in touch via the email in the show notes or social channels. This episode was produced and presented by me, Radim Malinage. The audio production was done by Neil MacKay from 7 Million Likes podcast. Thank you and I hope to see you on the next episode. If you enjoyed this episode and would like more accessible resources to help you discover this your daring creativity, you can pick up one of my books on themes of mindful creativity, creative business, branding and graphic design. Every physical book purchase comes with a free digital bundle including an ebook and audiobook to make the content accessible wherever.
- [53:39]
You are and whatever you do.
- [53:41]
To get 10% of your order, visit novemberuniverse.co.uk and use the code podcast, have a look around and start living daringly.
- [53:51]
It.