The impact of building a creative community - Simon Wright and Richard Wiggins (All Flows)

Summary

Podcast Title: Mindful Creative with Radim Malinic
Episode Title: The Impact of Building a Creative Community - Simon Wright and Richard Wiggins (All Flows)
Release Date: April 21, 2025

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Introduction

In this engaging episode of Mindful Creative, host Radim Malinic delves deep into the dynamics of fostering a creative community. His guests, Simon Wright and Richard Wiggins of All Flows, share their journey in building a multidisciplinary creative agency and organizing influential design and digital conferences in Milton Keynes. The conversation explores the significance of community building, the unique creativity fostered in a young city, and the challenges and triumphs of organizing creative events outside major metropolitan hubs.

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Background of Simon Wright and Richard Wiggins

Simon Wright introduces himself, highlighting his extensive background in contemporary art, including a 15-year tenure at Muslims Gallery where he curated public programs. It was during this period that Simon met Richard Wiggins while hosting the long-standing MK Geek Night event in Milton Keynes.

Simon Wright [00:50]: "We find ways to make some kind of income from doing the work that we do. And I think that also differentiates us as well from other agencies."

Richard Wiggins shares his roots in Milton Keynes, detailing his early life in the city and his evolution from a web designer in the late 90s to co-founding Pooleyville alongside Simon and their colleague Daniel Shahadi.

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Establishing Pooleyville and Shifting Focus

The duo explains the origins of Pooleyville, both as a publication and a creative agency, inspired by the city's unique planning history.

Simon Wright [04:20]: "Pooleyville is actually the plan that was designed prior to Milton Keynes being designed. It was a kind of place, about alternative stories and possible kinds of futures."

Initially focused on creating a publication that highlighted Milton Keynes's creative scene, Pooleyville's direction shifted towards commissioned work and projects with Milton Keynes Council, particularly within the culture and heritage sectors. This pivot ensured financial sustainability while maintaining their commitment to the city's creative narrative.

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The Birth of All Flows

The conversation transitions to the inception of All Flows, an international creative design and digital conference held annually in Milton Keynes. Simon recounts their first attempt to host a larger conference inspired by successful events elsewhere.

Simon Wright [13:08]: "And yeah, too much coffee and we got a little bit carried away about what that could be and we birthed All Flows."

Despite initial setbacks, such as technical issues and financial losses, the founders remained undeterred. Their passion and dedication led to improved event experiences in subsequent years, emphasizing quality programming and community engagement.

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Creativity in a Young City: Milton Keynes

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to exploring how Milton Keynes's relatively recent establishment (only 56 years old) influences its creative landscape. Simon highlights the city's radical approach to urban design and community building, which has historically integrated art and creativity to foster a sense of place.

Simon Wright [14:06]: "What is really fascinating about the history of the city for me is how the arts was used to create community."

Richard adds that Milton Keynes's green spaces and planned infrastructure provide a unique backdrop for creative endeavors, allowing for continuous development and a persistent sense of possibility.

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Challenges of Organizing Creative Events Outside Major Hubs

Simon and Richard discuss the hurdles of hosting significant creative events in Milton Keynes, such as limited venue options and overcoming preconceived notions about the city. They emphasize the importance of maintaining an intimate atmosphere in All Flows, which differentiates it from larger, more impersonal conferences.

Simon Wright [30:01]: "There's a lot of disconnection with creative in what's going on in Milton Keynes, with music, what's going on in Milton’s, certainly with tech."

They also touch upon the financial and logistical challenges, especially in a post-COVID world where event management dynamics have shifted. Despite these obstacles, their commitment to fostering a creative community remains unwavering.

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Community Building and Curation

A core theme of the episode is the strategic curation of speakers and content to inspire and energize attendees. Simon and Richard elaborate on their approach to selecting diverse, high-quality speakers who not only bring expertise but also inspire creativity among participants.

Simon Wright [42:23]: "We do pour a lot of time into curation and we have been complimented on that."

They strive to balance well-known figures with emerging creatives, ensuring a rich and varied program that caters to different interests within the creative industry. This meticulous curation has earned All Flows a reputation for delivering insightful and engaging content.

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Vision for the Future

Looking ahead, Simon and Richard express their aspirations for All Flows. They aim to grow the conference without compromising its intimate and inspiring atmosphere. Plans include expanding their lineup of speakers, incorporating interactive sessions, and continuing to highlight Milton Keynes as a burgeoning creative hub.

Simon Wright [47:23]: "We have quite a close alignment and we do quite a lot with city council. Our event is referenced in the five-year cultural and tech strategy for the city."

Richard shares dreams of securing high-profile guests while maintaining the event's unique character, ensuring that All Flows continues to be a catalyst for creative innovation in Milton Keynes.

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Conclusion

The episode concludes with Radim Malinic reflecting on the profound impact that building a creative community can have on a city. Simon and Richard's dedication to Milton Keynes exemplifies how passion-driven initiatives can transform and elevate the creative landscape, even in relatively young urban environments.

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Notable Quotes

• Simon Wright [00:50]: "We find ways to make some kind of income from doing the work that we do. And I think that also differentiates us as well from other agencies."

• Simon Wright [04:20]: "Pooleyville is actually the plan that was designed prior to Milton Keynes being designed. It was a kind of place, about alternative stories and possible kinds of futures."

• Simon Wright [13:08]: "And yeah, too much coffee and we got a little bit carried away about what that could be and we birthed All Flows."

• Simon Wright [14:06]: "What is really fascinating about the history of the city for me is how the arts was used to create community."

• Simon Wright [42:23]: "We do pour a lot of time into curation and we have been complimented on that."

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This comprehensive summary captures the essence of the conversation between Simon Wright and Richard Wiggins, highlighting their endeavors in building a creative community through All Flows and Pooleyville in Milton Keynes. Their insights offer valuable lessons on community building, event management, and the influence of urban design on creativity.

Transcript

[Radim Malinich]

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[Simon Wright]

I think sometimes people don't perhaps understand what we are or what we do. We don't necessarily go out and pitch for work or anything like that really. We work in a super organic way but also a lot of the work we do is self initiated. We find ways to make some kind of income from doing the work that we do. And I think that also differentiates us as well from other agencies I guess working locally that we are working in such a way like this. And I think there's probably a bit of, hopefully a lot of I guess respect.

[Radim Malinich]

Welcome to Mindful Creative Podcast, a show about understanding how to deal with the highs and lows of creative lives. My name is Radi Malinj and creativity changed my life, but it also nearly killed me. In this season, inspired by my book of the same title, I am talking some of the most celebrated figures in the creative industry. In our candid conversations, my guests share their experiences and how they overcame their challenges and struggles, how they learn to grow as creatives. A creative career in the 21st century can be overwhelming. I wanted to capture these honest and transparent conversations that might help you find that guiding light in your career. So thank you for joining me on this episode and taking the first or next step towards regaining control of your creative life. You ready? Today I was speaking to two creative powerhouses. They share passion for art, design, technology, socially engaged practice and creative placemaking. They run a multidisciplinary creative agency called Pulleyville as well as All Flows, an international creative design and digital conference that is held annually in Milton Keynes. In this conversation we talk about a drive to create intimate, inspirational events with a commitment to quality programming and community building. Today we talk about Milton Keynes, highlighting its rich history of using art to build community and its radical approach to urban design that attracted influential architects and designers. It's my pleasure to introduce Richard Wiggins and Simon Wright.

[Richard Wiggins]

Richard. Simon, how are you doing?

[Simon Wright]

Very well. How are you doing?

[Guest Host]

Good to chat again, Redeem.

[Richard Wiggins]

Yes, it's good to have you on the show, I mean, you guys are doing something remarkable away from London, away from everybody else in your own sort of sphere. And whenever I see your email signature land in my inbox, I was like, I want to speak to these guys because they are as busy as I am and it's nice to see people doing different things. But for those who have may never heard of all flows your festival or your creative agency, how would you introduce yourself?

[Simon Wright]

My name is Simon Wright.

[Guest Host]

And my name is Richard.

[Simon Wright]

We begins a bit of background I guess, would be helpful to contextualise everything. So my background's in contemporary art and I worked at Muslims gallery for about 15 years as curator of public programs and that's where I first met Richard, when I began hosting a long standing event that he'd been running in Milton Keynes called MK Geek Night. And that had been going for about 12 years now, something like that, 12.

[Guest Host]

And a half years.

[Simon Wright]

And basically I began hosting the event. They'd lost their venue, they needed a new venue and I offered our space up. And the event had been for creative industries, for the kind of tech community in Milton Keynes, but I guess the kind of surrounding area, it was pulling in people from Nottingham, Oxford, London, all over the place. And Rich and I, over that kind of period of about five years, I guess we became friends and we had lots of shared areas of kind of interest. And then I decided to leave my job at the gallery and go freelance. And Richard and I and another colleague of ours called Daniel Shahadi, he's a graphic designer, we were really interested in developing a new kind of publication for Milton Keynes because we felt that there wasn't really anything talking about Milton Keynes as a place. And just to say both of us grew up here in Milton Keynes and we wanted to tell a bit of a different kind of story about the city that wasn't perhaps being told by other sort of local media outlets that were pretty, pretty basic to be honest. So we came together as a group and we came up with the name pooleyville, which is both the name of the publication but also the name of our kind of creative agency. So pooleyville is an interesting one. So it's actually the plan that was designed prior to Milton Keynes being designed. So perhaps we can go in a little bit further back towards the kind of the Newtown story and the story of Milk Keynes perhaps a little bit later. But Peleuville was a kind of plan put together by an architect and urban designer called Fred Pooley. And this was like in the early 60s, around 6162 and he was charged with the idea of designing a new town city for North Buckinghamshire. And that plan got dubbed Pooleyville. And actually it preceded the new plan that came along for the design of Milton Keynes, which eventually pray war was superseded. But it was always something that kind of stuck in my head, this kind of place that was planned for but never actually came into fruition. And then Milton Keynes took over basically and yeah, it was just a kind of a cute name to talk about kind of place, about a location and I guess like alternative stories and possible kind of futures. So we were going through this kind of whole process of coming up with this new publication over a course of about I guess a kind of six, seven, eight months and a number of other opportunities started to come our way. Primarily working with another colleague of ours, Will Cousins, who has a background in architecture and urban design. He was actually part of Milk Keynes Development Corporation in the kind of early 70s as well and had been working in the city for a long time. He was chair of Milton Keynes Gallery where I used to work. And he was in very close dialogue with new developers that were coming into Milton Keynes and proposing to develop new sort of multi use sort of schemes. And we were basically invited by a developer called Socius to develop a kind of meanwhile activation program of a building that they'd just purchased and had plans to redevelop. So we were working quite closely with them over a kind of period of time, hosting kind of exhibitions, running events, doing conferences in this new building that eventually was going to be redeveloped and turned into housing, but also retail offices, et cetera, et cetera. And we also also ended up, because of Richard's kind of background in design and web, we ended up doing a lot of work with them on their sort of branding and website for that particular kind of scheme. So the original kind of publication idea actually had to take a little bit of a kind of backseat and we ended up doing a lot more kind of commissioned work and projects. And then that also led to doing a lot of work with Milton Keynes Council, particularly with the kind of culture and heritage team, mainly with the heritage team. Looking back at the kind of new town story of the city and being growing up here, we're fascinated by the story of the city and how it came about, its utopian kind of ideals, the way it's used artists to develop new communities, all of those sort of fascinating radical approaches that kind of is under the surface a little bit in milking. So we've done a lot of work with the Kind of heritage officer Shane Downer and done various different kind of projects over the last kind of few years. We've pooleyville, the magazine idea had always been kind of in the back of our minds whilst we were doing all of this other work that was paying the bills. So we launched a kind of bi weekly newsletter and that was our kind of starting point where we were trying to talk about the things that were happening in the city but perhaps weren't being promoted very much. But also other things that were operating around the area and also things that kind of caught our mind, international elements.

[Guest Host]

As I guess it's our curated content, the stuff that we have a kind of, you know, I guess an eye for or just enjoy looking at or reading and then sometimes we like to bring a bit element of that to it as well. Yeah.

[Simon Wright]

So we've just gone past our hundredth edition of that. But at the same time we've been developing the website, which is pooleyville City, for longer form kind of content, so more kind of commissioned articles, whether it might be a review of an exhibition at MK Gallery, for example, or it might be a piece by a local graphic designer who's been looking at the kind of visual language of Milton Keynes, the kind of graphic design histories and the artworks etc and how that sort of influenced his practice to interviews with photographers like Simon Phipps, who also grew up in Milton Keynes. Amazing kind of photographer of like brutalist architecture. So we've been steadily building up that aspect of I guess our kind of creative agency as well and the sort of the publication at the same time. We've been doing quite a lot of work with Milk Keynes Council around the kind of tech ecosystem in the city. And this is a really big kind of narrative that's been coming through over the kind of last three or four years. And with another colleague, Oliver Waters, we launched a project called Proto Space which aimed to bring together the tech community in Milton Keynes and really to start to amplify, I guess, the city as a place for innovation, new technology for startups, for scale ups, et cetera. So alongside all of that we will get to all flows. We will get to all flows. Alongside all of that, I think we'd probably talked about a conference at some point during a time when Richard was hosting Geek Night at the gallery. We probably had some sort of conference.

[Guest Host]

We talked about his ideas and I'd actually my friend and a colleague who I run Geek Night with is a chap called David Hughes, one of my good old friends and we actually did do an all day conference for Milton Keynes Geek Night back in I think it's 2014. So that was our. Let's try and you know, we'd been doing Geek Night for a couple of years then it's like an evening, an evening more community I guess, community event. It was generally free back in the day and we started quite a lot of people attend that and yeah, we decided to try and do a conference. It was incredibly stressful. We made no money out of it. I spent so much time I created because my background is digital design, branding a little bit predominantly web design back in the day I created all the assets for it. But one of those things you pour a lot of time into. Incredibly stressful. Enjoyed it. But at the same time you're like I'm never going to do that again. And we never did technically we did talk about it again as part of Geek Night and then when we were working on other projects and Simon I. To come together I think really we had too much coffee one day and we were talking about, I think some of the speakers we'd got lined up over Geetler. We often plan ahead for that. Even though it's a smaller event. It's typically been run quarterly. We are maybe pushing that back possibly this year for the first time, three times in a year just to take a bit of pressure off. But we were, oh, we got some really good speakers come up. Some of the people I think you've probably had on your podcast or certainly know in the past had spoken and then we were like, oh, maybe we could do a bigger event. And we like, we'd love to just. It's not Geek Night, it's not part of our existing kind of community but do something inspired by other bigger events we've both been to. You know, I've not actually been to off but you know, I was going to obviously very aware of it and what Hector's doing there and my friends, Mark Taylor runs an event in Germany called Beyond Telloran which has been running for a really long time and I know Mark for a really long time and we chat quite a lot. Gone to that a number of times and other design conferences and around the UK and yeah, just wanted to do something, maybe we could do something here. And yeah, too much coffee and we got a little bit carried away about.

[Simon Wright]

What that could be and we birthed all flow.

[Richard Wiggins]

So before we talk about all flows in more depth, I never really knew that much about Milton Keynes. I know things are happening. Milton Keynes. I've got one of our friends Carl Wilkinson's done work with the Unity place, with Santander. It's happening. We've got actually Klein in Milton Keynes for the governance funded startups. So the place is there. But to actually know more about it, I think it needs someone like you to really put it to the forefront. Because whilst you were answering your first question, I've looked it up and Milton Keynes is only 56 years old. How does the world of creativity and how does it work in a place that's young? What sort of effect does it have on creativity in the minds and people overall? Because when you go to places which are much older, you can say, okay, this is inspired by something older, this is. This, this has got heritage, this has got something behind it. Whereas what you described in your answer was so culturally rich and so enticing thinking. How does it add up? How does it work?

[Simon Wright]

Yeah, it is a really fascinating place. It's not perfect by any means. And I think from a sort of personal experience growing up here, all I wanted to do was leave and I went to study in London and study kind of fine art and then lived in Brighton and then gradually ended up coming back to Milton Keynes. But it wasn't until I returned, I think that I began to understand it a little bit more and see it in a slightly different way. What is really fascinating about the history of the city for me is how the arts was used to create community. So the development corporation, as well as being being incredibly ambitious in terms of how they were physically constructing the space, they were also being really radical in how they were creating communities. So artists were commissioned to come here to be artists in residence, to work with kind of communities, to create that kind of sense of place in something that was entirely new. And this was coming out of the kind of quite radical 1970s community arts movement. So there's really incredible organizations like Interaction were up here, they were doing projects where they were creating their own kind of TV channels. So Milton Keynes had its own TV channel called Channel 40, which was actually, interestingly, it was part of an exhibition that was at Raven Row Gallery in London a couple of years back, all around the kind of community television movement. And then they were also commissioning lots and lots of kind of public art around the city. And that still carries on today. You know, it's still a place, as you said, it's only 56 years old. So it's still a place that's constantly developing. And I think there's that kind of sense of possibility is still very much within the kind of DNA of The city and that narrative I think goes across all of the kind of council, but also I guess some of the. I guess the artistic and the design community. There's still that kind of. It's still growing, it's still developing, but it's also the history of it. It's always been there. I think we're real, hopefully we're real sort of champions of this place and I think we see the possibilities and having kind of events and doing the kind of projects that we do. Hopefully it starts to shout about that a little bit more beyond the city. So we very much see all flows as a kind of national, international type of event and bringing kind of new designers, artists, whatever to Milton Keynes to look at it in a slightly different way.

[Guest Host]

We'll be back after a quick break.

[Radim Malinich]

If you're enjoying this podcast and would like more support and information on your creative journey, you can pick up one of my books to help you do just that. My titles cover branding, graphic design, illustration all the way to career business advice with ideas how to navigate the highs and lows of the creative process. You can pick up signed paperbacks at no extra cost from my [e-mail] and we are shipping worldwide use code podcast for extra 10% off your order and you can find the links in the show notes. Any day should be a new book day.

[Richard Wiggins]

It's interesting thing when you say like all I wanted to do is leave actually it doesn't matter wherever you are born, like most people were thinking like yeah, I've had enough, I want to leave. And then you get a diehard like yourself, they're like actually you know what, I'm going to come back and actually make a difference in my community. Because Rich, you were born in Milton Keynes, right?

[Guest Host]

Yeah, I was, I was born technically. Didn't have a hospital then, but we're just on the road and my. I have a lot here. My parents actually built in central Milton Keynes very early on in the early 80s. Then we moved, we lived on the outskirts like for a few years but very close by and then literally moved into central Kings and in Southfield House at a brand new school again because everything was so new. These estates were literally coming up and it's. That is only funny enough is only just over the road really from where we are now. So yeah, I literally grew up here, went to school here and then actually I actually stayed here. I didn't go. I didn't actually end up going to university by partially by choice I'd kind of like wanted to just get into a career. I knew I was actually interested in design and graphic design and I'd actually started as a career as a web designer back when web design was very new back in the late 90s when most people didn't have. Majority of people didn't even have an Internet connection back then. And that kind of like got me even more solidified that I was interested in design. Okay, it went into some of the web design area but. And then a few years later, probably about. I think about six years later, I actually started. I ventured out and just started on my own doing my guess a freelance phase of his business, but basically just worked myself and I had basically done that ever since until basically Simon and I met and we started puglio together. And then I think through starting things like I would go out to these other events. This is how I. I was always. I guess I liked living here again quite critical of various things. But I kind of a little bit probably back in there was a bit more of my siloed thing and I used to go out to. To London or to the Oxford or to server a field to Germany. These other events and there must be people here, it's one of those ones. If you build it, hopefully they will come. And we started when we started Geek Night, that was back when Twitter worked, when it was actually a nice place to be and actually had meaningful connections and friends online on that platform. And we started with a tweet and I think we were close to around about 100 people at our first event and a lot mostly from the city, but also from London and a few other places. And this was like to fair. We had a couple of really good speakers. We had had John Hicks, who's an old friend who was quite well known for doing a lot of icon design, did a lot of stuff for. Did the Firefox logo back in the day and did a lot of work with Spotify and things like that. But. And then Brendan Doors, you might know Brendan yourself and he's a friend and actually spoken a couple of our. A couple of geek nights and actually have spoken at all flows last year as well. So they were kind of like our first speakers at a small community event. It was pretty good. They were friends, they were free. We knew them between David and myself. But the reason for doing it was like a little bit selfishness. I was tired of like always having to go to Oxford or always having to go to London or wherever to go to events like this. And back in 2012 there wasn't really much going on here around that scene and it was just like, let's just try it. And initially it was going to be a meet up in a pub and then we said no, actually let's have a bit more structure to that. Let's put some talks on, really informal though. We'll have some beers maybe if we get some. Might get some pizza in. And that went from there really. And that's how I guess is my first to me personally is like my personal dip in dipping my toe in the ocean to doing a bit more community based stuff and really getting actually involved with other people here. And it was through that then I ended up over the years met become a lot of friends. But also Simon mentioned Oliver who we do his other element protest base with and he started an event a few years after the couple years after that and we. It was I guess probably partly because he'd start coming to Geek Night. It was of that thing started happening a little bit in that kind of a creative and slightly tech side of it as well. And obviously now as any city there's always a million meetups and events going on every day of the week really. But yeah, I'm from here and I'm still championing a lot of things creative and outside of that as well.

[Richard Wiggins]

I will ask you in a second about the community aspect and I'll ask you more about how you brought it because yeah, back in the day Twitter was fantastic when it worked and let's not talk about what it is now, but I want to talk about actually the city for a bit longer because it's a new city. Like some cities go obviously their heritage, they've got their sort of signage, you can see stuff. Whereas for something which is only that many years old didn't feel to you like that when you were coming back from London and see like reflecting on the architecture, reflecting on signage. Because in a way I would hope that there was not too much of a sort of really old crappy design to deal with. When you say the legacy design is fruitful, I mean it's beneficial to our creative inspiration. Where sometimes, for example, where I grew up rather forget everything I've seen because it was just like 80s designed and just done to be. So did you with your surroundings. How much were you aware of the fact that you were dealing with something where it was just finished and you said like your. Your parents built in central Minton Keynes and there was. There was no hospital before. And I think you got to see a build of the city from a Different perspective to many other people in the uk. So creatively, did you have even chance to be aware of the fact that that's something that's happening compared to the other cities?

[Simon Wright]

I don't think it's until I actually came back that I realized its impact after being away. And then when I was at Milton Keynes Gallery, we were doing quite a lot of work with some of the original kind of architects and urban designers and people that had worked for Milton Keynes kind of development corporation. So I was aware of this is a really different place to live. I think what's also really beautiful about it is that it's an incredibly green city, despite it being built, ultimately built for the car because it's on a big grid system and it's super convenient. There's actually a really beautiful landscape that's been purposely designed. But yeah, I think really understanding its kind of history when I came back from London and Brighton and understanding how much of a kind of radical proposition it was, yeah, made me look at things, yeah, differently. And to hear directly from those people that have been involved in its kind of creation was a real privilege as well, I think. And those kind of stories, often that generation are sadly, they're dying out and preserving those kind of stories. And there's great kind of archival organizations in the city that are preserving those kind of histories and those stories about the place. They were working with some of the most kind of interesting architects and graphic designers, artists of that era. They were in a really amazing position where they were like, here's a piece of land, here's a significant amount of money to create this new place for 250,000 people. And it had all of the kind of radical thinking that was going on within the kind of late 60s and early 70s infused into it. And it had people like Buckminster Fuller was coming over to give talks to the development corporation. Terence Conran was circling around it. There was really radical architects from the architecture association. Arche grand built a playground in Milton Keynes. That was one of their only kind of constructed projects. So there's all of these kind of incredible people that are revered today that are actually working on Milton Keynes when they were very, very young architects or designers. So I think we've got a lot to talk about on a sort of national and international level around our kind of design heritage. And I think really perhaps for us all flows is just a continuation of that legacy. And I'm sure in 10, 15, 20 years time there'll be another couple of youngsters doing something interesting in the city. You feel like you have the opportunity here to make something happen and people are receptive to it and you're allowed to take risks, which that doesn't always happen.

[Richard Wiggins]

It's so easy to be working as a creative seclusion. I'm like, yeah, nothing's going around, is it? Nothing's really going on. Do you realize actually there's lots of people thinking the same and all it really takes is a tweet in your case, and actually asking a few friends to come up and do something about it. So that must have been quite satisfying feeling to actually see that there's people around you thinking the same or similar and being inclined in the way of appreciating creativity. So what was the buzz like when the first gigners happened? And yeah, how did you feel like spurred on? Because that was not the one with the first. Too much caffeine, was it?

[Guest Host]

No, no, all flows was too much caffeine. No. I think Guigner was probably down the pub and I suspect from what I remember, I think initial chats, I think it was over a few beers. So these ideas are often born out of a coffee shop or a pub usually, I think, in my experience. But yeah, it was great when you did it and we did it and okay, we were lucky enough to have John and Brendan come and speak at the first one. But yeah, having that many people turn up in actually quite an iconic building there. It's the old bus stat. It was a community space for a while, or community ran space, a great event space. And we just did it there and it was pretty lo fi. The audio was crap. They had their own basic mic there, which I think the first event, we got away with it. But having I can. It was something like close to 100. A lot of people sat on the floor. There wasn't enough tables and chairs, but it was just kind of like. It was great. It was just a nice, like, chill vibe. And we always tended to do back in those days, it's kind of like. I think we even started our first event. We had five talks. We have two slightly longer talks and then we'd always have three sort of maybe five minute talks. And that worked quite well. And I don't know if we started it back then, but what we still do now, and we have done for a very long time, we do what we call one minute wonders. So they do like pitch type talks. But we tried to say not, it's not a commercial pitch. It's more if you're looking for staff or you're Looking to start an event or something more to that. And again, that's always been really good. But yeah, I remember doing it and we were like, okay, well we'll do this again then. And it was like, I can't remember exactly such a long time ago. We put it out there and it was even busier the second one. And again a couple of friends we knew from came along. Well, not from Milton Keynes to speak at that. I remember having a second one. We had a lot of audio problems where it was just so busy and the mics were great and the receivers, they just kept cutting out. So we're like going forward in future, we have to figure something out. And randomly some people were there in the room. We were about to try and find someone to help us and they contacted us. And what's really, really nice is I don't even live in Milton Keynes. They've been helping us every single geek night since. And that was just kind of like, hey, it's great that they basically give up their time to help us. Cause they're like audio gurus and they knew exactly what they were doing. And literally so from that onwards we had really good audio and tech. And it was always. We all set the bar quite high with who we brought in to speak. Even though it was a real community event, we always wanted to do it really well. And actually certainly, I guess in those kind of. Certainly those sort of circles, when there is. Back in the day there was events like New Adventures in Web Design. I definitely knew that one. Simon Collison was an old friend who used to run that. And we actually like geek and I got quite well known. We were up for some Net A Mag community awards back in the day and we went to the Net A Mag awards and when that existed and things like that and it was a community event. But actually because I think we all set the bar really high, we wanted to deliver, make sure even now we people come and speak who come from some of those circles. Oh yeah, we know. I know of you. I know my friend's spoken in the past or various things like that. And it's. Although it is not a big event, it's still, it's still got a good reputation. And I think again, it's just that's. I guess what we've come to means we know it's.

[Simon Wright]

It's consistency and persistent.

[Guest Host]

Yeah, again, trying to. There was never the plan to be running it more probably even more than a two or three years. There wasn't a plan. It was like to Be still running it now, over 12 years later is a bit madness, really, but also proud of that. And we've been brought into things from the city point of view, from the council. I met Prince William back a number of years ago at an event that the council ran as I guess, running this community. And so those opportunities came up. But I think. Or there was. I don't think it went in, but there was something around when Milton Keynes went through actual city bid and got city status. There was. There was some sort of. I remember it coming up in conversation with the council. I don't think it was included, I don't know. But it's nice to be part of that. And I guess there's still a lot of people in the city, have no idea we exist, which is one of those things. It probably happens in all other cities, certainly in Milton Keynes. There's definitely a lot of people in our creative or tech sectors who don't know the things we do, but that's fine. There's enough people who.

[Simon Wright]

And I guess that goes back to why we started the magazine as well, to try and talk about these sorts of things, to try and get more people to know that this Geek night was happening or other interesting events were happening.

[Guest Host]

And I think it's always been quite a bit of a struggle, whether it is the design of the city, which we are fans of a lot of what it does. It's always quite hard to bring some of these things to people's attention or to cut through. There's a lot of disconnection with creative in what's going on in Milkings, with music, what's going on in Milking, certainly with tech, which is why we were involved with the other element that was that our proposal back was to try and bring a bit more cohesiveness and bring. Trying to let some of these people and projects and events to light, really. And all closed is just that on steroids for us, really. It would probably be a lot easier to do this event not in Milton Keynes, if we're honest. We have challenges here. We struggle with good venues here. Nothing good, just the right kind of venues here. Because we're not an old city which is full of like old interest loads of old interesting spaces because it is this new city. It doesn't have that. There are spaces and they're either brand new and they're not quite right or more, they're quirky because we have challenges with that. I'm still working through those now, but yeah, and also bringing people here. We're Not London, we're not Berlin, we're not Vienna, we're not Amsterdam or Manchester, whatever is definitely a challenge in terms of perceptions, people's perceptions of Milton Keynes as well. And trying to change that a little bit, not just through all clothes, but all of you, Pooleyville and other people here by trying to highlight what they're doing as well.

[Richard Wiggins]

Richard, we have spoken a few times and I did ask you you did you ever consider doing it anywhere else? And now I've spoken to you for half an hour and I've got so many reasons now understanding why you do what you do and where you do it, because it's quite unique sort of setup because I think because of the canvas of the backdrop that you've got there, the way you started it makes perfect sense because you can cave in and say, okay, we can host it in Somerset House because someone's given us a space that would be easier. However, I think that reward will be totally different. It might seem almost like a cop out because obviously if you've been building your community in Milton Keynes from grassroots level all the way to where you are now, it does make sense that even going against some of the limitations and constraints that the city provides you with, it does make sense to do it that way. Because I can sense like how much it means to you guys to actually be there and how much you actually put it on the map. Because just like you started your first note geek night and with just buy a bit of a tweet and getting people in, it's just grows from there. So. So how did you feel about having an idea? Okay, we lost money but we're going to do it again. Are we going to grow it and see what happens?

[Guest Host]

Yeah, I think for that it is a long time ago, we're talking well over a decade ago we did that event and yeah, it was a challenge and that was probably a bit. It was generally people from the UK attending that. But it's a little bit scary. I'm definitely a bit of risk adverse for us to do this actually fair. It's probably not the most sensible idea when events are struggling. They're starting to come back a bit now, but definitely we're coming into our third year. It was two years ago, only three years ago we launched our first one and events weren't where they were. So it's quite scary. In a post Covid world where the industry has changed and people the way they buy tickets, I think it's slowly changing, but certainly a couple of years ago or Two, three years ago, it was a tough. So probably not the most smartest idea to do this. And it's just the two of us behind or flows. I guess that 99% of the time in reality, is like, they have a really great volunteer team and people who come in and who really help us and friends throughout, support in different ways and part partners. But it's the two of us, and we put a lot of time and passion into it, and it's a tricky one for us. It's a passionate project at the moment, but at the same time, when you're spending months and months on it, you need to pay the bills as well. For us, it's going in the right direction as an event. It's still growing, but, yeah, I think we'd love to, if it was maybe the right venue, scale it a little bit. But we've talked about this, and we never want to be big. We want it to be like that intimacy of what it is. And especially our first year, both last two years, we appreciate all the speakers can stay around for a whole two, three days. Some of them did. And when they do, it's great. And it's that. That ability to just chat during the breaks or at lunchtime or go for a beer after or have dinner, and people were doing that. And we heard some of those from some of the people from outside of the city and some people who. We know, friends in the city who attended, and they were like, yeah, it's great. We went to lunch with Kate and she was lovely. It's nice when those kind of, like, connections form and you really get to meet people in the event. And I guess that's what I've experienced that some of the events I've been to, especially like Mark's event in Germany, for example, where it's okay, maybe seven or 800 people, it scales a little bit. But I'd been lucky enough to meet a lot of speakers, I guess through maybe through Neymar, but spending time with them and spending time with other people made friends. And there's ones I used to go to. I've only held ones in Build in Belfast. I'm still connected with some of these people who I met over a few days back then at an event, and I think that's nice. And they can maybe at those much bigger events and get me wrong, they're amazing. But you don't get that connection and the chance to, yeah, have conversations a bit more and bump into the same people more than once. I think that's nice. And so yeah, we do want to.

[Simon Wright]

Grow it, but not too big.

[Guest Host]

But not too big. But yeah, it's been good. We have ambitious ideas for sure about, I guess not say in terms of the scale, but how we can amplify it all the time. Always trying to think about within our very small budget and time, what we can do and how we can make it better and make it more fun and more inspiring, really.

[Richard Wiggins]

There's a common theme that I speak to people on this podcast who say the words, who are very much doers, but they always say I'm a bit risk adverse. Everyone says I'm risk adverse. And I'm like, but you're doing more things than anybody else, like lots of people. And it just strikes me as an interesting topic because I'd require a few things myself. Am I risk adverse?

[Simon Wright]

Maybe.

[Richard Wiggins]

I think there's this amazing juxtaposition and contradiction. Like it's an amazing contradiction like when people say I'm a risk adverse, but this is everything I do and I'm like, what is it really?

[Guest Host]

Yeah, you're right. And I probably couldn't. But yeah, I definitely feel like I'm risk averse. But at the same time, yeah, yeah. Then both of us had been very much, let's just do stuff. Let's go in and outside of what we do, we always probably ones who just do things.

[Simon Wright]

I think it's internally or within the three of us who run the agency, we're constantly, I think, grappling with what are we as a creative agency? Yes, we do lots of different things and we work across lots of different sectors. And I think sometimes people, people don't perhaps understand what we are or what we do. We don't necessarily go out and pitch for work or anything like that really. We work in a super organic way. But also a lot of the work we do is self initiated. We find ways to make some kind of income from doing the work that we do. And I think that also differentiates us as well from other agencies, I guess working locally that we're working in such a way like this. And I think there's probably a bit of hopefully a lot of I guess, respect and we've had those kind of conversations with other sort of friends in the sector that they really love the way that we work and the things that we do and what we're trying to do for the city and trying to put it on the map with all of these kind of different disperse kind of projects that we're doing. Yeah. Does that make sense? I Think it makes sense.

[Guest Host]

I think it makes sense.

[Simon Wright]

Makes sense.

[Richard Wiggins]

How do you support each other as obviously, like you work in the partnership, there's three of you in the agency. There's. There's other people involved when things get hard. How do you metabolize things?

[Simon Wright]

I think we've known each other for a long time.

[Guest Host]

Yeah.

[Simon Wright]

And initially it was the kind of host client kind of relationship when I began hosting Geek Night at the gallery. But it obviously just became very clear that we had lots of shared interests and both equally passionate about the place. And. And yeah, I think Rich is an incredible hard worker. I'm a little bit more flighty and all over the shop. So there's a really nice kind of complement, I think, between the two of us. And Will is a little bit like the kind of elder statesman of the business, and he's equally. Has these kind of flights of fancy, but also he's done some kind of incredible projects throughout his kind of career and have this incredible knowledge and set of kind of contacts. So I think as a kind of trio, we've got this kind of really healthy mix between us. And yeah, things get hard, things get frustrating.

[Guest Host]

I think one of the biggest frustrations we have is because we're not, to our, sometimes a little bit of our detriment, not really fully commercially minded. We're not going into this. We didn't start this as a business to. It was almost a side project to start with. The magazine has always been this kind of. And it still is a side project as part of what we do. That's why it's taking a backseat. Because, yeah, you need to at least try and pay the bills and go down other routes. And I guess in theory, all flows. It's not a business idea. We're just coming out because. Let's do it. Why not? Yeah. Again, too much coffee. Why not? Again, some to our detriment. We're not business enough minded, really. And we're not. Even though I've worked for myself for a long time, and because you come from a slightly different background, neither of us are particularly that way inclined, I guess even when I was freelance for a long time, I was never like, really business. I never did networking. I never was that great at marketing myself. I just managed to almost stumble my way through many years of still doing that career. And I think that's sometimes where we struggle and a little bit. But at the same time, in one regard, it's quite nice. We haven't got somebody saying you need to do this project to pay we probably should. It'd be good if we had that. You need to get this. But I think we are very organic and we go after stuff and we are a bit more passion led with what we do. And we certainly wouldn't be going and doing things like all flows. It's certainly not a commercial reason we go. We'd love to start making money of it out down the line and hopefully we'll get there at some point. But we're coming into it because it'd be really cool to do this in our city and do an event like this. And let's do it. Why not? And let's be ambitious of who we ask and try and get to come and speak at it. And really speaking to one or two people about 2026 because they can't do this year. But it's those conversations are happening. So we're pushing forward and we're already talking about 2027 because that's the city's 60th birthday and it'll be our fifth year. We have quite a close alignment and we do quite a lot with city council. Our event is referenced in the five year cultural and tech strategy for the city. All flows is in there. That's part of the key thing. So it's nice it's been recognized. But also at the same time it's challenging as well to sort of put it out there. But we have a good local audience and then we're not talking big numbers. But it's exciting when we do see people from Germany or the Netherlands or Portugal buying tickets or Copenhagen to come to our event in Smilton Keynes coming specifically for our event, our first event. We have pretty much zero social media traction and like no losing. And we had people coming away from Michigan State University in the whole cohort and it was like I was a bit mad for us really. I know it doesn't seem much for some of the events, but this is our first year and they were like, did you come for other. No, we literally just came for your event over from Michigan and that was it. And then they went home again and they were great. But it's nice and that's for us. It's enlightening and it's exciting. And again these are only. We're not talking hundreds or thousands of people but it still. It means a lot to us.

[Simon Wright]

And like you said as well, it's going back to that smaller scale events. It's a kind of hopefully that's a really positive memory that they will go away with. Back to Michigan and talk about Milton Keynes and talk about all flows and the kind of things that are happening here. So that's our kind of compensation, I guess, for the months of work that we put into it. And I think also just thinking about we really paying over the line up of speakers. We only have 12 speakers and we do over the course of the kind of two days. And we started to experiment a little bit with kind of panel discussions and we had a panel discussion last year and we give lots of time between the kind of speakers as well. So those moments when audiences can interact and speakers can interact with the audience is kind of really, really important in terms of the structure of it. But yeah, we do a lot of research and we look and we listen to talks and we read things and we try to curate these kind of lineup that we're really excited about and hopefully the audiences are as well. And I guess it is that moment between our kind of two respective kind of backgrounds, really. My background coming from a more contemporary art culture kind of background and Richard's kind of more design, web design, and he's been plugged into that scene a lot more for a long period of time through kind of geek night. So we've got this kind of interesting, I think, interesting mix of how we kind of approach.

[Richard Wiggins]

Again, you've literally read my mind because my next question was going to be all about curation. Like, how do you put this together? How do you gauge the interest potential? Are you, in a way, are you selfish in your sort of curation thinking this is the people we want to see, we're going to put it on and see if anyone shows up or actually, are you trying to skew it potentially? Like, this is what people might want to see. How do you do this?

[Guest Host]

We do pour a lot of time into accuration and we have been by quite a lot of people who have attended the last couple of years is being complimented on that. And again, that means a lot to us. People come up, say how we have curated not just the lineup, but how it flows over the course of the two days as well. But to come back, I think we, in one way we are a little bit selfish to a certain extent because we look for people who are like, who would you want to see? Who would we find interesting? And sometimes we have to pull back. You're not always obviously sat next to each other. Sometimes it's over slack or whatever it may be. You're like, oh, these could be good or these could be. Sometimes you're like, actually their work's amazing. But do they talk? So then you have to go down that rabbit hole because we're not always looking at the. I guess there is an element of. There's lots of events, don't get me wrong, but there is. Obviously you get a bit of a speaker circuit, right? You do. You have had that. I've had through the web industry. Back in the day, there was always like, you'd see the same speakers popping up. Don't be wrong. We booked them myself back in the day and had that. And it's great because often they'll pull in, people will know them and maybe gets bumps and seats. And we do want a little bit of something. You want someone who's well known, but we don't want to have them just because they're well known. We still want to have them because of their great speaker or their content's amazing, or usually both. But sometimes there are curveballs that we both throw in or no idea who this person is. And we both do that. Sometimes you start going, looking them up and actually that could be really interesting. And sometimes not being favorites, they often come out and be the best talks, right? Because you've not heard them before. But also they're just coming at it from a different perspective or what it may be. But it's been really nice with that and it's been really nice with Geek Night over the years as well, with that kind of his discoveries a little bit. But it's been really good. And I guess through some of those for us as well, friendships have formed with not just our audience, but some of the speakers. And we have somebody coming back, you know, who spoke last year. He wants to get involved again this year. No, not a speaking, but to do something else around music and performance. So we're having those conversations. And he's like, I just want to get involved. And I love speaking, I love the event and hung around. So there's those kinds of things. And we want to give space to that. We're like, yeah, let's make this happen. We'll figure out as part of the program. So that also, I think, quite an exciting way for us is we're not completely pinned down of what the structure has to be. It's not a drastic thing, but we're moving our start time back a tiny bit from I think we were like 9, 9:30 the last couple of years. And we're like, actually, let's start it about half past ten. It gives a bit more time. We'll run a little bit later. We had A, I guess a very small closing gathering party. The first two years we're having as an opening party issue on the day of the first event. Let's mix it up. We think more people are likely to be around. Some people have to disappear on a Friday after and after work and stuff, or go back to London or get flights or whatever it may be, or go back to Manchester. So, yeah, we're changing, but we also want to make space for if people like doing other creatives. We're having another conversation about a drawing event in which we're going to go to London this week. Who someone we're already connected to and we're talking about bringing that to all flows, fitting that as part of the program because it sounds like it's really good fun and would be a perfect fit for us. So it's how we add to that as well.

[Simon Wright]

Yeah, I think people are curious like when we reach out because, oh, they're doing this thing in Milton Keynes and I think people are curious about that. And I think the first year we, yeah, like Richard said, we had no kind of no traction, no sort of social media following whatsoever. But we pulled together a pretty incredible kind of lineup of speakers and that kind of came from, yeah, just real cold calling, hey, Ian Anderson, Designers Republic, do you want to come and talk at our first event? We don't know what it's going to be like. And he said yes. And then other people like Ava Kramer, Stephen Death, David Sheldon Hicks, who's now from Territory Studios, he's become a real champion and friend and lives, weirdly lives locally even though he's running this kind of international agency. He's introduced us to people or suggested people. So it's all been organic and developing kind of over time. And yeah, I think we also, as Richard said, we are having these kind of conversations for next year and we do want to bring in some like, big hitters. I think Ian was a pretty big, big hitter in terms of the kind of UK graphic design kind of scene. But want to amplify the kind of speakers that we have as well as to give kind of opportunities for perhaps more younger emerging creatives coming through as well. And just in terms of like discipline. It's so broad. Richard's incredibly passionate about photography. So we're always thinking that, oh, we'd really to invite an amazing kind of photographer to come and talk and Laura Panock who spoke last year, she was brilliant, credible speaker and they. And you'd have Akhil Benjamin from Camusi doing a talk or Brendan talking last year. So it's this kind of real interesting kind of mix and perhaps sometimes it does become a little bit too esoteric. And there has been conversations that we've had with audience members who perhaps want to get into the, I guess the kind of nitty gritty of the business side of it and how it might be useful for them. And I think that's incredibly important as well. I think we need to think about how we kind of can put these sort of programs together that are inspirational but also useful for the broader community, creative industries, community.

[Guest Host]

But I think I want the number one thing is to really inspire people. And I think that's what we've. Not from what we're doing but as for many event is for people to come away feeling energized and inspired. And we certainly heard it, we heard it both years, but certainly the first year when it felt like quite a few people we knew personally had attended. And I've not been through anything like this for years and I needed it. I actually, I needed it. And having conversations after where they're just like going at you because they're so buzzing. And last year we had some like local students who as part of like a scholarship bursary who a local graphic, you know, studying graphic design. And they came and some were volunteering, some were on like a scholarship bursary ticket and they were just like the after party chatting to them and they were just like so energetic and just this was amazing and asking questions and really curious about how we do it. And I think that's exciting.

[Simon Wright]

Yeah, I think that's definitely really key. Like how they weren't aware of Geek Night. They weren't really aware of all flow. So it's like how we're providing those kind of opportunities for kind of students. There's young people that here to come and experience the festival, to meet other kind of people working in the industry locally, but also having that kind of incredible lineup of inspiring creatives to listen to over the course of the kind of popular days. Hopefully that then will birth other things happening in the city. We want these younger generations coming through doing things in Melton Keynes. I think that's also really important part of what we do and I think that's why the council have been a supporter of ours right from the beginning that we're able to touch lots of different areas with the top route approach that we're taking to all.

[Richard Wiggins]

Florence, before I let you go, who's your dream guest and what's the type of a talk you would like to achieve at all flows.

[Guest Host]

We don't want to say names. We have booked somebody who's on the list and confirmed for 2026. That's our first actual confirmed speaker for next year. But we've had some conversations with people who are already know reaching out to these people and again I don't want to say their names specifically because they might not happen, but they might happen and we'll work hard on that and. But for me, I don't know, it was never like one person who would be my dream speaker. I guess there's always that almost be cautious of it. Is there someone who's amazingly creative and you really look up to in that kind of creative industries, whatever they do. But maybe who also cuts across the kind of genre because a lot of these people, unless you are in a creative. There's a lot of people still don't. You can say, okay, they are amazing, high profile, legendary designer or photographer or whatever they do or filmmaker. But they're not, you know, they're not household names. I don't know and I'm not something we've talked about. But you're not saying we spoke. You know this Stefan Sagmeister. Okay. I'm not saying we're not someone we go unspoken to growing up, but as an example, extremely well known across this creative industry. Spoken all over, a bit of a legend, but you'd still ask most people and they would never have heard of them unless you're in a creative industry. So I guess maybe there is. I'm not saying that's something we go after because I'd always be a bit hesitant but maybe it is that somebody who it'd be interesting to find or who is that? Those interesting people. I guess it would be a great press thing. You're going to draw people in if you got someone like oh my God, they've got that person and you know, that's really cool. But that would be interesting in one regard but hesitant in another regard.

[Simon Wright]

And yeah, I think that's a really tough question. Yeah, I think we want to surprise us.

[Richard Wiggins]

Of course.

[Simon Wright]

Well, yeah, I can't really think of anyone off the top.

[Guest Host]

Yeah. Not one person. Yeah.

[Richard Wiggins]

I enjoyed learning about how you guys put this together and how you do this and actually that true dedication to the city and what you're doing for the city because as you, Simon said, at one stage of your life you wanted to run away and only when you came back you realized the impact of the city that it had on you. And that's invaluable and you can't put it into any sort of metric because it does how it makes you feel is what matters the most. So yeah, I think what you guys doing, especially with everything that you do, I think is remarkable because it maybe feels like the city Pooleville is one of its kind in a way. And yeah, would you guys doing is one of his kind again? So yeah, it's been great to learn more about you, to hear about your passion, your selfishness, good selfishness. And yeah, I can't wait to see what you guys do to your event in the future. Thank you.

[Guest Host]

Oh really great to chat to you today.

[Richard Wiggins]

Thank you.

[Radim Malinich]

Hey, thank you for listening to this episode of Mindful Creative Podcast Podcast. I'd love to know your thoughts, questions or even suggestions, so please get in touch via the show notes or social channels. This episode was produced and presented by me, Radim Malinich. Editing and audio production was masterfully done by Neil McKay from 7 Million Bikes podcast and the theme music was written and produced by Jack James. Thank you and I hope to see you on the next episode. Hey, just a quick note to say thank you for joining me on this episode. If this is your first time on your regular listener, please take a minute and rate the show on your chosen platform. A short review helps every show to be more visible to new listeners and provide them with value. So thank you for helping out. Thank you.