← Miracle Mentality with Tim Storey (Motivation, Self Help, and Mental Health)
Miracle Mentality with Tim Storey (Motivation, Self Help, and Mental Health)
How To Ask For More: Improve Your Negotiations Skills with Alex Carter | Ep 4
00:50:36
Loading summary
Transcript76 lines
- [00:00]
A
It was tough. Sometimes it felt lonely and it showed me that there was this whole world out there that really didn't feel accessible to me. I would go into the ladies bathroom and kind of cry because it was a lot and wipe my face and go to the next one. Until one day when I thought maybe I could do this.
- [00:19]
B
Alex Carter is an author, media personality, Columbia Law School professor, and negotiation trainer to the United Nations.
- [00:28]
A
My daughter, looking up, so excited that her mom was on the stage, and I thought, this is the coolest thing ever.
- [00:36]
B
Purely for that, is it ever worth it to be belittled in negotiations to get a little.
- [00:43]
A
I'll just be really honest.
- [00:47]
B
Hello, my name is Tim Storey. Welcome to Miracle Mentality. Remember rooftops, drawing spaceships on the ground? It's for the dreamers, the doers, the believers in something greater. And each episode, I'll invite you to rise above the mundane, to push past the messy and learn to live boldly in the miraculous. Every episode will have practical wisdom, spiritual insight, and my guests will explore what it takes to activate your miracle mindset. Remember to subscribe, follow, and like. This is Tim Story. You're watching the Miracle Mentality. It's a podcast, and I'm on today with someone I feel is my friend already, Alex Carter, because I like to really research who I'm going to talk to. And Alex, boy, I'm loving what you're saying and what you're doing. Welcome to the podcast, Tim.
- [01:43]
A
Thanks so much for having me. We had a great chat before we went live just now, and I'm excited to continue it.
- [01:49]
B
So when you were in high school, let's take you back to, like, junior senior year. What were you thinking of becoming? A veterinarian. A law professor at one of our top colleges, A soccer player. What was young Alex thinking about? Junior senior year, of becoming?
- [02:12]
A
Well, that's a great question. It wasn't a soccer player because I grew up with really severe asthma, actually, Tim, and most forms of physical activity. I always wanted to be on a team and. And I'd get out there for five seconds, be really fast, and then they'd have to cart me off and take me to the hospital. So that was out. You know, deep down, I always thought I might be a lawyer. And that's because I was a rebellious teenager. My father was a lawyer, and he kept telling me, don't do it. It's too late for me, but it's not too late for you. But you know what? I look back, Tim, and this is what I remember. I remember the things that brought me joy. And there was one moment in particular. I joined a club called Speech and Debate, where I could write my own speeches and deliver them. And I loved that. I won quite a lot of trophies for it. And so I thought, okay, so speaking and conveying a message to people is something that I feel really comfortable doing. But that wasn't my best moment. My best moment was my best friend since I was two saying, I'm super shy. I could never do that. And I took that, like the biggest challenge. And I said, watch, you're gonna win a trophy. And we prepped and prepped and prepped. And when she did, that was the most exciting moment of my junior and senior year. It wasn't winning it myself. It was coaching other people to do that. I look back at that, and I think I was meant to be a teacher or a coach, and law is just the area that I chose to do it in.
- [03:51]
B
I love how you're saying that, because I think you would agree that some things in life we decide, other things we discover. And so that discovery is that unfolding. So I'm looking for this unfolding of Alex, that as we see you as a great author, as a professor in a leading amazing institution where you're teaching. But also, I want to talk about the situation with the asthma, because I had a sister who struggled with asthma all through her childhood. And that was really something she always had on her mind a lot because she would have asthma attacks and we'd have to take her to the hospital, et cetera. How much of a hindrance was that to you as a young person coming up dealing with the asthma at the same time just dealing with being a teenager?
- [04:53]
A
You know, Tim, it felt like a big limit at the time. It really felt like a hard limitation. Something about me that I couldn't change, and something that meant that certain avenues really, exercise of any kind, were closed to me. And it wasn't until college that I discovered that wasn't true. I actually started to feel a little bit better during college. And I didn't like the way I felt never having exercised. And so my parents were really worried about me exercising. And so what I started doing was I would wait till people went to sleep. I am not joking. And I would put on my clothes and I would go out for a run. And at first it would be one block till I needed my inhaler, and then two blocks till I needed my inhaler. And gradually I started being able to run 5Ks. And I'll never forget the moment that I was in New York and I was making a turn around Central park and I realized I'd forgotten to use my inhaler. I didn't have it in my hand. And I finished that 5k anyway, and it was okay.
- [06:02]
B
That is so powerful. I mean. I mean, so, so powerful. Because if we fast forward. But I'm to take you back.
- [06:08]
A
Yeah.
- [06:09]
B
So we have a book that was written in 2020 that has done very well, continues to do well by. With Simon Schuster. Ask for more. We'll talk a little bit more about that in just a minute. You go to Georgetown, which I told you before the podcast. I've always been a Hoya fan of what you guys did in basketball. More. Back in the day, back when you were watching and then the whole Columbia Law School. It's not like everybody gets, you know, brought into a school like this and has even the discipline to do it. And then this idea where then you become a professor at this amazing institution and how that happens. So, Alex, I really do find it something, because there was a time in your life where you were struggling and you could have been just kind of sitting and settling in that setback that I am just Alex. And I am limited in this challenge because of the. The asthma. So I have a question for you. Was there a mentor in your life? Let's say during the teenage years, it could even be your parents, where you saw their life, either the observation or a conversation that helped you say, okay, I think I have something big inside of me because as I study you, you're doing big things in the world and you're helping us change. But back then, you were just a whole lot of potential. Was there a mentor back then that helped you?
- [07:50]
A
Yes, I had a mentor in High School, Mrs. Gordon, my social studies teacher, who pushed me really hard. Sometimes she would even give me a bit of a lower grade when I knew that I had done among the very best in the class, because she. She told me she was grading me against my own potential. And that was a really powerful message for me. I felt like it. It called me higher. And the thing about somebody seeing your potential and calling you higher in one area of life is that it doesn't just stay in that area, it expands. I see that now with the young adults that I have the privilege to teach, how if I show them what I see in the mirror, their expansive potential in this one area, I watch as then they go on to shine in all kinds of areas. And it's just me trying to pass on what Mrs. Gordon did for me in high school.
- [08:49]
B
Yeah. And thank you for giving a shout out to Mrs. Gordon. So. But this idea of potential, as you know, it means possibilities, capabilities, what can actually happen. And as a person that life coaches a lot of people, I see that somebody's potential must be found. It must be understood, and it must be utilized. So how did you start to find your potential as a leader? Not just somebody who was good at school. I think part of it is that the answer you gave me earlier, where you were good at debate. Okay, but tell me a little more about how you started to find that potential. And you started then to work that potential and put the potential to use, to utilize it.
- [09:42]
A
I think I kept asking myself a question. What else might I do? What else might I be capable of? And I got to college. I got to Georgetown. And most people don't know this, but I felt pretty socially shy. I was a pretty bookish kid. I was great on my feet giving a speech, but struggled sometimes to introduce myself to people. And so I decided that I was going to run for student government, and I was going to knock on every door in the freshman class, and I did it. And every floor I finished, I would go into the ladies bathroom and kind of cry because it was a lot and wipe my face and go to the next one. And I got on to student government just because I knocked on everybody's door in the class. And then I realized that when I was engaged in issues I cared about and I was doing something that I felt a purpose connected to it, I had a lot to say, and I could meet people. And so I just kept asking that question, what else? I did this. What else might I be able to do? And it's a question that I'm continuing to ask myself even today. I learned something new that I never thought I'd be able to do just in the last month. And I'm almost 50 years old.
- [11:04]
B
Yes. So in studying you for these hours that I have the last two days, I do see this persistence. So I want to know where that comes from. Is it innate or is it learned behavior? What has given you the ability to push through challenges? Because you talk even about your height, we don't have to say how tall or how not tall you are. But you. You mentioned it in one of. One of the interviews, but in everything that you do, the way I see it as like a therapist is that you got this kind of this inner grit about. About you that you're like, somehow, some way, somehow, some way, I'm gonna get through this. Is it more innate or is it more learned? What do you think?
- [11:56]
A
I think it's a virtuous cycle. I mean, I do think, Tim, that I'm a little stubborn. And I definitely both of my parents, especially my dad. My dad was one of the most stubborn people on this earth. He's probably bugging some folks up in heaven as we speak. But I think I grew up with just this feeling that if somebody told me I couldn't do something, I was going to make them eat those words, you know? And even if the person was me, frankly, even if I was the one that was saying, I'm not sure I can do this, or I don't think I can do this, that I had kind of a rebellious streak where I was gonna. I was gonna prove them wrong. So I think I had a bit of stubborn genetics. And then once I did something, I thought, well, darn, okay, I did. That felt really great. What's next? And I love adventure. I love change, I love achievement. Like that feeling of really getting into something new and not being so great at first and gradually figuring it out. And that's been all the way through. I don't know if we're going to talk about the TED Talk, but I even thought maybe I'm a professional speaker, but I'm not sure I'm cut out for standing on a red dot. I'm not sure that's. That's really where I'm going to shine. Until one day when I thought maybe I could do this, you know, So a little bit of stubborn genetics and a little bit of you get a taste and you want to keep going.
- [13:34]
B
Yes. So when you were at Georgetown, did you realize that you were at Georgetown? Because, like, for me, being raised lower income, Compton, California, the farthest anybody in my family had ever been is community college. So. So when you were at Georgetown, did you start to understand, like, hey, like, I'm at a really well known university for those that know that Georgetown's a great school for what I'm doing here? Did it sink in and at what point did it sink in?
- [14:12]
A
Yes, it sank in pretty quickly. And here's where I'll be really candid and tell you that, you know, my dad was a lawyer. He was able to pay for my tuition at that time, which he did with a lot of grumbling. He kept telling me that the tuition was like buying a new car every year and then driving it off a cliff. But I got there and my dad told me, you get tuition and Basically, that's it. Get a job and you gotta work, you know, to make your pocket money. I'm so glad he did that. But I got there, and there were a whole lot of people who came from wealth and connections beyond anything I had ever seen in my life.
- [14:51]
B
Yeah, See, that's how I see the school, because of knowing wealthy families that I work with. That's how that's how I see Georgetown.
- [14:59]
A
Yes. Right. So I was in this interesting spot where I didn't have loans, but I also was living on Cheetos toward the end of the semester because I was out of money and I had to just survive till I could get home. And it showed me that there was this whole world out there that really didn't feel accessible to me and most people. I ended up during that time starting a lobbying group to fight for preserving student financial aid so that a wide variety of kids, including kids like you, maybe grew up lower income and were really bright, could get that opportunity to go to a school like Georgetown. And it's funny, because all the reporters would ask me, what kind of financial aid are you on? And I finally said, I'm not on any. I just think this is really important and everybody should have access to this kind of education.
- [15:55]
B
See, but I love that fighter in you. That's the fighter that finishes the race, even though you forgot your inhaler. And that's a fighter in you that wanted to fight for people like me, the underdog, so they had a fair shot to be in the race. So I think that's pretty awesome. And then you go on to Columbia Law School, is that correct?
- [16:17]
A
Yes, that's right.
- [16:19]
B
Okay, so how does that come about? So you. You're going to finish Georgetown, really big move. And then from watching some other podcasts that you do, there's some people that influence you of what kind of law you're going to end up doing. But talk to me about the decision to go to Columbia and how that started to work for you as soon as you got there.
- [16:46]
A
This is so interesting because everyone thinks I planned this out, and I really didn't. I graduated from Georgetown. I had a couple of job offers. I didn't feel that motivated by any of them. I was really bummed because I had applied for a Fulbright scholarship and I had been told I was on the wait list. And then several weeks before I graduated, I got a phone call in my dorm room and I was told that I was pulled off the wait list for the Fulbright and would I still accept the spot. And it Was almost as though I knew, it was like my body brain were holding out for this opportunity. So I moved to Taiwan. I was in Taiwan where I was a total minority, where I had a lot of Chinese lessons, but I had to maneuver in Chinese in a way that really grew me. It was tough. Sometimes it felt lonely. And it was an incredible year. I did that and then I decided to get a job. After that I cold called my way into a job at Goldman Sachs. Tell you that story another time. Spent two years working there and developed a friendship with our in house lawyer for our department within Goldman Sachs. And he had gone to Columbia Law School. And I admired him so much and liked the work he was doing. And I decided to quit finance and go back to Columbia. And so I started there and had absolutely no idea what I was going to do. I mean, and it felt nerve wracking because I don't know how many of your audience members can relate to this, but I was a pretty big brass ring grabber, Tim. Like I was always like, what's the next thing? What's the next big school I can get into? Or the biggest scholarship I can get? Then I get to graduate school and I'm thinking, Alex, this is the last stop on the train. This is it after. This is the rest of your life. And I didn't have a clue what I was going to do. And I ended up just interviewing at some law firms. I went to the best firm I got an offer from. And it wasn't until I was almost graduating that I accidentally ended up taking the course that I am now teaching. And the only reason I took the course is because my best friend Megan was kind of jabbing at me and she said, hey Alex, I just took this course. It involves a lot of talking, you'd be great at it. And so I took it. And the first day in that course, it was mediation. It was like how to help people negotiate better. And Tim, that was when I heard Morgan Freeman's voice coming down from above saying, this is it, you have found it.
- [19:32]
B
I, I, I love this. So you gotta bear with me because I like to rhyme. So for a while it's almost like you were like wondering and wandering. Then you're in a foreign land, doing the language learning culture, fitting in, not fitting in. All the things that happen when we travel, okay? And then you have like this Morgan Freeman, Oprah Winfrey aha moment where you're taking this mediation class. But then this is the thing that we're going to end up knowing you for it's what your book is about. It's what you're getting so well known to do, to talk about, to help us with which we're going to get into those particulars in just a moment. But how wild is that that you were just there, didn't know it was gonna happen that way? It happened, and then it just kind of dropped into you?
- [20:33]
A
It is wild. And I feel like that's been the way that most great things in my life have unfolded.
- [20:42]
B
Yeah.
- [20:43]
A
You know, it's like I've always had the mindset of trying to bloom where I was planted. And for me, that meant making the best relationships I could and trusting that I would know when the next door was going to open up. And it's been true my whole life.
- [21:00]
B
Yes. So I want to get into two things. First, your TED Talk, and then second, I want to see if you could help us with your skill set to help my listeners and viewers to better their lives, because a lot of them love to negotiate and make deals, and you're great at it. Okay. So the TED Talk is not easy. That is why I have not done a TED Talk. I have spoken all over the world in all kinds of platforms, but I don't want to jump through that hoop and that hoop and that hoop and that hoop. So when I watched yours not once, but twice, because it was that good. I watched it twice, I thought, this little rascal is good. And I watch the best speakers on a weekly basis because I'm spoiled, because I'm on all these speaking tours. You are good. I thought first, the way she takes the platform, the confidence, the way she works that story in about her and her husband, they're rowing together, and how the thing capsizes three times, and you're working your story, then you're working in your ideas. Just so wonderful. What did it take for you to have the confidence to do a TED Talk? And how did you feel the day of the TED Talk?
- [22:33]
A
Oh, okay. Well, what did it take to do the TED Talk? I'll tell you. The first is I had someone help me. So my friend Laura Gassner Otting, who's a good friend and also a speaker and author, she had done a talk at Reno, and this is TEDx. Reno, one of the best places to do a TEDx. And she recommended me. And I'll tell your audience a little something. I was waitlisted the first year. Are you sensing a theme yet? Right. I've been wait listed from a couple things in my life.
- [23:13]
B
This is a theme in your Life. Yes.
- [23:15]
A
Yes. And so I got wait listed, and they told me I was first on the wait list, and then nobody dropped, so I didn't do it that year. And I remember thinking to myself, well, maybe it wasn't meant to be. And then they called and they said, would you please resubmit for this year? And I did, and I was accepted this time. So never believe a wait list. Right? It doesn't mean. No, it might mean this wasn't the best time for you.
- [23:46]
B
Right.
- [23:47]
A
Your time is coming. So my time came that next year, and I worked really hard. The folks at Reno have worked with a lot of professional speakers, and they said, this is different. And I knew it was different. And so I really tried to humble myself and listen to the advice on how I could be successful in this format. And let me tell you how nervous I was. I was so nervous that I made myself sick the day before the TED Talk I had. I woke up with complete laryngitis. Complete. My voice was gone. And they had a doctor on staff who took me into her clinic. She gave me steroids. I had the inhaler again. I mean, we were going back to childhood, and I was on complete vocal rest, so I could not rehearse with sound. And I woke up the morning of the TEDx. I was so nervous, I forgot my pants. I had to send my husband back to the hotel at the last minute. Or I was going on in sweatpants. And then right before I went on, I just. I felt this, knowing. Your voice is gonna be there, Alex. It's gonna be there.
- [24:55]
B
Yes. I love this. I love this.
- [24:57]
A
And I walked out onto the red dot, and people were applauding. And I was in this huge arena, and I was there on the dot, and I spread my arms out and looked, and I just drank it in for, I think, a full 10 seconds before I started speaking. And I thought, this is the coolest thing ever. And I'm about to have the most fun 14 minutes of my life. And I sure did. I didn't miss a word. I had fun. I was fully present in that moment. And I looked out, and I saw my husband, and I'm gonna choke up. But you can't see the top rows. You can only see the audience in the front, and in particular, my daughter looking up, so excited that her mom was on the stage.
- [25:46]
B
And.
- [25:46]
A
And I thought, this is the coolest thing ever, purely for that.
- [25:52]
B
Okay, so I'm loving that you're going there with me and Alex. That's why I watched it the Second time, because you kind of shocked me of how good you were. Because, again, you got to remember I'm speaking on stages every week. I know you're speaking to students, but that's a different thing within the classroom and a different way of speaking. It's not so much like performance. No, sometimes it is. But the way you took in that introduction, again, just to be in the moment, the energy that was there, and then the pace, I thought, oh, look at her pace. Even the first time I watched it, I stopped, rewound. It came back again because I said, was she that good just now, what she just did? Because even in your transitions, just wonderful. But I think part of it is because life gives us assignments. I told Oprah Winfrey one time, I said, I believe that we're all. We've all been spoken over, whether people want to call it God or the universe, whatever they want to call it, but we've been, like, spoken over. So I think that, you know, Alex was just being Alex at that moment. And so we got to see the intellectual side of you, the classy side, the amazing wife, the amazing mother, but also the. The humor that came through, because under all that scrutiny, which that there is that and pressure, we could have lost your humor in that presentation. And the humor was not lost. It was just flowing out of you, I feel.
- [27:43]
A
Yeah, go ahead.
- [27:45]
B
No, no. So how about this? Congratog. That's what I want to say.
- [27:53]
A
I really appreciate that. And humor is how I deal with a lot of things in life, including stress. I. I actually find, Tim, that when I'm helping people negotiate really tough things, if we can find a moment to laugh, it reminds us of our shared humanity. And it's one of the things that I have found brings people together.
- [28:19]
B
Yes. Okay. So in negotiating, I think that I'm as high as a baby. And that is if there was an abc. And that is because I saw the greats negotiate. Lee Iacocca helped train me in business. I was around him since my 20s, and he would teach me about how to negotiate. I would watch other people in the entertainment business on how they would negotiate, that it wasn't like just sales. Sometimes it'd be quiet. But you say some amazing things about negotiation. So let's go through a few things. So you talk about steering. Steering. So when you talk about steering in negotiations of a deal, steering in a negotiation, even with a challenge, with husband and wife, a child and their parents trying to get a raise, a big job, a big contract, what do you mean? When you talk about steering.
- [29:32]
A
Yeah. So this goes back to the honeymoon I was on with my husband, where after we, as you mentioned, flipped the kayak because we weren't working together.
- [29:43]
B
Yeah.
- [29:44]
A
You know, the guide looked back at us and said, all right, folks, let's, you know, negotiate these things to the left. We're going to hit that beach up there. And that was the first time that I realized there was another way to think about negotiation. We tend to think of it as this one moment. Right. Like a big capital N deal, and that's it. You know, a few times a year, we're sitting down, we're going to hammer it out, Contest of wills type of thing. And I realized that negotiation is much more like steering a kayak. It's a series of everyday interactions and conversations that, yes, might lead you to the big N. The big deal every so often, but you're not gonna get there, and you're not gonna negotiate as effectively in those big moments unless you're steering in every conversation and every interaction you have. It's really. It's a mindset. It's an intentionality. It's a way of approaching all the relationships in your life so that you're never letting an opportunity to steer and to work with somebody pass you by. You're not waiting for the big deal. You are intentional in every interaction you have with that person, just like you're steering a kayak.
- [31:07]
B
I love this. You also talk about looking at people from the idea and perspective of them being a potential partner. And I think a lot of people, they miss out on that. That mostly when I see a lot of powerful men negotiate, they're just going at it. They're going at it, and. And they're almost forgetting that once they negotiate a deal, now they have to work together. But talk to us about this idea of looking at the partnership and looking at the person that you are negotiating with as another person. Right. That has emotions and feelings and their reason for wanting to win or to negotiate a deal a certain way. Talk to us.
- [32:00]
A
Yes. You know, you know, this. The world is so much smaller than we think, and it's especially small as you get toward the top. You know, in any industry, in any city, you know, people. You see the same people over and over again. You know, we talked about this a little bit before we got on air. Things ebb and flow. You know, I remember working with one executive. I worked with his company over a period of years. I'm not even going to say the industry that it's in just to preserve the Confidentiality. But I did several training programs for some of their very, very top negotiators. They're negotiating nine figure deals. And I'll never forget because this, you know, one head executive told me, well, we need to learn. I don't really beat people. I love to just humiliate them. And I remember thinking, you know, you all are negotiating these contracts, and then you're trying to work with that person to get what you're selling in the hands of as many people as possible. And so I listened to the executive, but I taught the class my way anyway. And I'll never forget, people called me kind of on the down low to thank me for those tips. They said they really helped them. And several years later, somebody called me and said, this executive is out at the top. And here's what happened. Because for a while, his company, because of certain industry dynamics, held all the power. And he delighted in pulling what he saw as his opponent's pants down. In fact, he had a trick where. Where when he would shake your hand, he would shake it really low, so you had to crouch down. So it was humiliating to shake his hand. Well, all of a sudden, market conditions shift. He doesn't have the power. And what happened? Every single person who could have been his partner, because there's a way to get what you need but not feel like you're pulling down somebody's pants in the process. Those people delighted in returning the favor. And all of a sudden, she's out. I continue to not just believe, but know that we can do well for ourselves in the process of also living with integrity, doing good, and approaching people as partners. Because my goal is not just one handshake for people. Most of us are in the relationship business, and I want people to look at you and say, tim is really tough, but a fair guy. And I would do business with him again.
- [34:43]
B
Yes. Okay. So you wrote a book, 2020, Simon Schuster, the publisher. Ask for more, and then you give the different steps. Why that title of the book?
- [35:02]
A
Well, the title means kind of a couple things. One is I want people to dare to go for more in their lives. I believe that the saying, you don't get what's fair, you get what you negotiate. It all starts on the inside. And with that decision, kind of the decision that I made ages ago when I said, I'm asthmatic. But I'm not gonna let that stop me. I'm gonna ask for more in my life. I wanted to encourage people, especially people who weren't born feeling like they had a seat at the table who weren't born feeling like they deserved everything they got. You know, folks who, it takes some courage. I wanted them to know that it's possible. But also the title means questions are the superpower that nobody thinks about in negotiation. We think, Tim, it's all about getting in there, puffing up our chests and giving the most persuasive argument. That is not negotiation, that's public speaking. Negotiation is a conversation and it has to start with curiosity. Curious people make more money. When you ask questions first, you are setting up more information, a better relationship, and an awesome deal on the end of it.
- [36:26]
B
I love what you say about that and I saw that in different things that I read about you and then interviews that you've done about being curious but also asking open ended questions so you can find out more about the person. And that's what Lee Iacocca, he taught me. He said, tim, when you were working on a deal, he says, let a person kind of take out of their pocket what's in their pocket and put it on the table. And you do this by asking them questions about their life. Find out who they are, then you're going to start to see why they're the way they are, how they're thinking. He says. In fact, he says, me negotiating in my late 70s, that was at that time he was 70 something years of age. He goes, I negotiate completely different than when I was 30 years of age. 30 years of age. It was about win, win, win. Now he says, I just want to see is it the right marriage, is it the right fit? What do you think about some of this advice that he gave me?
- [37:39]
A
I mean, all of that is spot on and wanting to see if it's a right fit. I wonder if there's some people out there who think, oh, that sounds so soft. You know, it sounds like you're kind of giving it up. I have to tell you that if you're going into a conversation or a sales call or a deal, you know, saying, I want to figure out if this is mutually a right fit. That shows so much confidence. Think about it. It's like, you know, if, if this isn't right, I'm confident something else is going to be right for you or for me. Let's figure out if it's this or if there's something better that's meant for each one of us. It's the opposite of the desperation, like, I need this deal at all costs. It also shows a genuine care and concern for the other people. Folks don't Forget that. You know, when times are tough, when margins are lean, who do people go with? They go with the person who doesn't just offer them something great in terms of a product or a service or a partnership. They go for the person who gets them, who has listened to them, who hears the words that have meaning for them, right? And replays them and says, we're on the same page with our values. That's where the deal goes.
- [39:08]
B
Love it. Love it, love it. Okay, two more questions. One question is, is it. Is it ever worth it to be belittled in negotiations, to get a little. Now I'm gonna. I'm gonna go somewhere with a story, okay? What I do, there are times people try to belittle me, and they'll say, you know, the guys from Shark Tank are charging this much to speak, and this guy wants this much for to speak. But, Tim, you're big, but you're. You're not. You don't have your own TV show at that level. And so therefore. So they're kind of belittling me before I even get there in their negotiation. And then many times when I'm there, they're speaking to me the same way. And I think to myself, I think, you know, Tim, this doesn't go with your idea of go where you're celebrated, not tolerated. I kind of feel like I'm being tolerated for a sizable check, but I was almost belittled a little bit before I got there. So when I tell you that story, what goes through your mind?
- [40:28]
A
What goes through my mind is that they have a misconception. This is an education opportunity on where value comes from. And they're using certain metrics to think about value, right? Like maybe it's, you know, number of followers. Although you certainly have that, right. A name, popular people endorsing you. You certainly have that. I think a few folks have heard of Oprah, but there's a TV show, and that's how we're measuring value. Tim, I get this all the time, and it could be, well, we just had the famous Navy SEAL guy, and you didn't conduct a military operation, Alex, or, you know, you didn't do negotiations for the government or the FBI in this particular situation. And so I love an opportunity to say, okay, so to you, you're thinking about value in terms of those things.
- [41:31]
B
So good.
- [41:32]
A
Okay, here's how I'm thinking about it. Okay? Just take my fee. I'm going to teach folks a few tools. How many people in the audience have to get one thing from my Talk to make this a rounding error, because I've done the math, and I think it's 1:1. And so I got to tell you, I think it's a pretty safe bet that out of 5,000 people, right, one person. One person gets something. This is a rounding error, and that's how I'm thinking about value.
- [42:07]
B
So good. I'm going to play my own podcast a few times with you just to learn from what we're talking about, because that's brilliant. That is so brilliant. Because they really are not seeing things from the right perspective or the right mindset. And as you know, your mindset is yours to set. And they're in that business. And I think sometimes it could be a cold business, this speaking business. That's part of my life, and you're in it as. As well. But what a great way of framing it. And. But I. But I have found that when I do go to one of these conferences where they've belittled me first, but having just even one friend around me who knows who I really am, it helps.
- [43:01]
A
It sure does. You know, and I. Even if they're not with me, I feel them. I feel them with me. I carry their presence with me. And it's really the rock solid confidence that came there at the last minute on the TED stage, where I thought, you're gonna change somebody's life today, Alex. You've been doing it. You've been in that business for decades, and today's the day you're gonna change at least another person's life. And I might focus on a few people in the audience sometimes. I'll tell you, if I can meet a few people beforehand and shake their hands and learn their names, I'll call them out. I'll use that name when I'm telling a story on stage. And then I watch as a person snaps their head up and smiles. And I thought, yes, you. Right. You're the person I'm teaching.
- [43:51]
B
Yes. Okay. So before we end, I'm going to brag on you a little bit. Okay. So you're obviously a professor still, right? Columbia.
- [44:01]
A
Yes.
- [44:02]
B
Law. And you have this book. You're out speaking if somebody wants you to speak at their conference, which we have, those type of people that watch this podcast, they can reach out to you. Is that correct? And then we could see with your schedule, et cetera.
- [44:20]
A
Yep, absolutely.
- [44:22]
B
Okay. So from my point of view, Alex is riding high. That's how I see you. You're riding high. You're married, your daughter's 14 now.
- [44:35]
A
Yes.
- [44:35]
B
Alex is riding high. You're funny, you're creative. You're going to do more things. Alex is needed because we had a situation where a guy comes from one country to try to negotiate with our president, and the next thing you know, the negotiation didn't go so well. I wish Alex was in that room to try to help these gentlemen negotiate. But the gift that life has given you, that you've worked so hard to invest your life into growing, my goodness, is it needed? So you're a key person in my way of looking at life. Do you ever understand that? Or do you just mainly just feel like Alex, who's got to make sure her daughter has what she needs, and, honey, what time are you coming home? And are we ordering Uber Eats?
- [45:40]
A
I mostly feel the latter, I gotta tell you, Tim. And. And some of that is. I'll just be really honest. It's sometimes hard for me to take in success. I'll allow myself a few moments, and then, you know, I'm thinking about what else? And. And I'll also tell you that. That some days I wake up and I. I'm still. I'm still down on myself. I have to talk to myself. Um, you know, I'll say, like, oh, what have I done today? Or I'm a failure, or I'm behind, or, you know, I messed something up this morning. And, you know, I. I've spent the last 10 years really working on building up the positive way that I try to talk to myself and talk myself through those moments.
- [46:29]
B
Yes.
- [46:30]
A
In part because I want to model for my daughter. Right. That. It really isn't about all the shiny accolades. Right. It's about building a life of integrity that you're proud of, and it's about your resilience. There have been a whole lot of much more accomplished people than me who have struggled seriously with their mental health and have even ended their lives too soon. You know, And. And so, really, my goal from here on out, having achieved some of the things that I've always wanted to do, is to build a life of meaning. I was so close to my grandparents, and when they passed, I remember thinking that there were no diplomas on the wall in their nursing homes. It was pictures of family, and it was family coming to visit them. And so I'm really focused on that aspect of my legacy, too. Legacy of love and, you know, loving, well, the people around me and being loved by them in return.
- [47:33]
B
I love what you're saying because you're okay with the fact that we all go through recovery and Discovery. At the same time, healing from our past, our present, and then trying to be in a place of discovery where Alex is open to not just what is now, but what is next. Yes, but you, you are so needed in, in this world. I mean, because even me working in the inner cities, some of the nonprofit stuff that I do, and even in prison reform, negotiation is such a key. And this gift that you have is, is, is, is so amazing. And then the way you are educating students and educating all of us through your book to live better lives, to be better negotiators, because as we talked about earlier, even in marriage, you have to negotiate. So you, you, you might keep quite a few of my couples together that watch me. Okay, so the book is called Ask for More. And we're going to finish up with somebody that. I really appreciate you, Alex. Alex Carter. I look forward to being around you in, in person. Thanks for being you. Thanks for being gritty. Thanks for pushing through, thanks for getting through, making your way, feeling better on a bad day, but really becoming a master in your craft. And just because my background is theology, I want to throw a Bible verse at you. It says, do you see a person skilled at their work? They will be ushered into the presence of the great. And because you've mastered this skill, it's going to just continue to just usher you into even more amazing places.
- [49:37]
A
Tim, this was a gift to me today. You really have a way of building people up. And you wouldn't have had a way to know this, but I really needed that today. And so I want to thank you for the gift of your time and for the gift of this conversation.
- [49:51]
B
You're very welcome. But I see you, and even when I was studying you the last two days, I thought, it's not a typical person here. So thank you for being on.
- [50:02]
A
Thanks so much for having me.
- [50:04]
B
Thank you for sharing space with me on this episode of Miracle Mentality with Tim Story. If today sparked your courage or helped you understand why you're created for success, I invite you to carry that miracle mentality forward. Visit me@timstory.com that story with an ey on the end. Until next time, walk by faith, embrace possibility, and create your own comeback. Story.