Loading summary
Transcript60 lines
- [00:00]
Wendy Topp
Foreign.
- [00:12]
Podcast Host
Hello and welcome to Ms. The Podcast, where my number one goal is to get you fired up about family history. Times have changed and family history isn't just for your grandma. You can sneak it into your everyday life, and the blessings far outweigh any sacrifice, I promise. This podcast is all about connecting to your family, both past and present, and I am so glad that you're here. All right. I am so excited to bring today's guest to you. I have been a longtime fan of Wendy and her husband, and today we are speaking with Wendy Topp. So, Wendy, thank you so much for taking time to come on the show today.
- [00:52]
Wendy Topp
Well, I'm excited to share with you what I have been experiencing.
- [00:58]
Podcast Host
Yeah, I am so excited to hear about it. So, Wendy, if you don't mind just kind of giving us a little bit of background about you and your family and any other details you want to share with us.
- [01:09]
Wendy Topp
Okay. My husband is Brent Top, and we are both from Idaho Falls and we have four children and. And we have 24 grandchildren.
- [01:24]
Podcast Host
Awesome.
- [01:25]
Wendy Topp
And they're not. They don't all share our DNA. And five of them are step kids, grandkids, so they're all grandchildren to us. But it sounds like we have produced more than we have, so I'll qualify that. And my husband has taught in the religion College of Religion at byu and he just finished a stint as dean and he actually is on sabbatical right now, so we like to say he's semi retired. We're trying to decide whether to retire or not. And I work part time as a researcher for Dr. Richard Bennett, who's in the church history department and work with him for almost six years now on a project, a book on the. And several other projects on the temples. And that ties into my. My family history story later on. But so that's something I really enjoy. And then we've also written books together, so.
- [02:42]
Podcast Host
Yeah, that's awesome. So cool. Well, thank you so much for sharing that. So I know that you and your husband, like you said, have written multiple books together, and one of them is about near death experiences. And I know that your husband is really into the spirit world, but I'm curious what kind of, what led you guys to write the book specifically on near death experience experiences? What was kind of the catalyst that led you down that path?
- [03:13]
Wendy Topp
Well, we both love history and doctrine, I guess, and many years ago, back in the late 80s, I guess it was, we were just listening to a broadcast one night on the radio was an interview of Raymond Moody, who had written the book Life After Life and he had done research on near death experiences and as he, as they asked him questions and he, he talked about the different experiences that people had, we'd say, oh, that sounds like Mormon doctrine, you know, this experience of this apostle or it sounds like, you know, the teachings of Brigham Young or. And it was absolutely amazing to us how closely the things that he was talking about line up with near death experiences. I mean, with Mormon or Latter Day Saint doctrine.
- [04:13]
Podcast Host
Right.
- [04:16]
Wendy Topp
So we decided to, to do some research and our research is all non LDS material.
- [04:26]
Podcast Host
Okay.
- [04:27]
Wendy Topp
So we went back through things that had been published and the more, the deeper the experience, the, the more it lined up with teachings that were. And some of them very small and unusual things that other, you know, that had, weren't taught anywhere else. But there was, you know, some passage in, in the scripture or in history that lined up exactly with that. And so.
- [04:57]
Podcast Host
Wow.
- [04:58]
Wendy Topp
We use those as kind of our non biased, you know, set to. Of experiences to examine. And so our book is near death experiences in light of the restored Gospel. A great experience to write it. And this has really had an impact on both of our lives. So.
- [05:24]
Podcast Host
Yeah, I bet. So I know I kind of talked about this already, but how your husband is fascinated with the spirit world and I am too. I am absolutely fascinated and I've read pretty much everything that you're. Well, probably not everything, but I've read as much as I can get my hands on of what your husband has written about the spirit world and other quotes from the apostles and prophets. But I'm curious, I'm sure that your husband has taught you a lot and you guys have talked about this subject a lot. So if you could pick just one or two things to tell my listeners about the spirit world or things that have really been impactful to you, what would they be and why?
- [06:03]
Wendy Topp
Yeah, I. And actually, yeah, there are two books. One is my husband wrote. It's more of just a devotional book and it's called what's on the Other side. But I actually was able to do quite a bit of the research and the first book was written, you know, by both of us. And I had a lot of really interesting experiences as I wrote that book and was quite aware of the closeness of the Other side of the Veil. The ones, the, the main thing that experiencers always talk about is that love is what reigns in the spirit world, that, that their heavenly Father is in charge and you largely determine what happens to you in the spirit world or what your spirit world experience is. Going to be like by who you love, how you love and what you love, and you will be with people who have the same love or level of love that you, you know. And of course, if you love Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ most of all, that's the. The place where you will be. That's the most beautiful place to be. Those are the best people to be with. And then there. And you will be with whoever. I mean, the scripture says, you know, intelligence. Cleaveth unto intelligence, Knowledge. Cleaveth unto knowledge. And. And that's very literal that you will be with those people. That being said, I. I also would want people who lose a loved one who is not in a good place, not in a. A good state. I would want them to know that the love there is so powerful that all of those good people are still ministering to those who are in darker places or, you know, they're. Haven't accepted Christ or haven't maybe people who, you know, commit suicide. There are always angels ministering to those people and trying to give them their love. And that as soon as they are willing to accept and, and move forward, then they are, you know, able to. And that's. That's one of the beautiful doctrines of the spirit world. Then it's only a partial judgment and it can be changed. And so those are. Those are a couple of things I would love people to understand is that there are people on the other side who are able to. To give the, you know, your loved ones more love than they can even receive here.
- [09:17]
Podcast Host
Oh, that is so, so beautiful. Thank you for sharing that. I. Yeah, I am just. I love learning about this and reading all that I can. I've already said that. But it's just so. I think it just, it's is such a testimony builder to me to realize, you know, the whole plan, the whole. To just take it all in the whole, you know, the plan that God has for us. It's so beautiful. And he knows exactly what he's doing. So.
- [09:44]
Wendy Topp
Yeah. And it's perfect.
- [09:46]
Podcast Host
Yes.
- [09:47]
Wendy Topp
The other thing I would say is that, as I said, you create your own experience. You receive. Exactly. Well, of course, we all receive more than we deserve, but you reap what you sow. And the Lord's justice is so perfect, but also his mercy is so perfect.
- [10:05]
Podcast Host
Mm. Yes. Good. Good reminders. Okay, so thank you again for sharing that. Now I would like to just kind of move on to your family history project that you've hinted at already, but I know you've been working on this project for a long time. And I, I would love to hear any details that you want to share with us. Kind of the journey that you've been on and anything else you would like to talk about in regards to your project that you've been working on.
- [10:34]
Wendy Topp
Oh, I appreciate that. This is something I'm just passionate about and I think it means more to me than anything else I've ever written. But it does go back. I come from a home where my mother was not active, my father was not a member. But she had pioneer ancestry.
- [10:56]
Podcast Host
Okay.
- [10:57]
Wendy Topp
I didn't realize that until I was taking a genealogy class at byu. But I was always so excited to think that I had pioneer ancestry. And the one thing I knew my third great grandparents, Stephen and Harriet Nixon, were there was their, were their names. And I knew that she had died along the trail in Iowa and had always there. There wasn't any, you know, record of where that had happened. So Fast forward to 2004. My husband was called as a mission president and, and we were called to Illinois Peoria.
- [11:45]
Podcast Host
Okay.
- [11:46]
Wendy Topp
And it included includes na. The Nauvoo Historic Site and parts of Iowa and parts of Missouri. And we had not been out on our mission long when we first went into Iowa and, and I knew she had died somewhere between Nauvoo and winter quarters. And of course it was a really stressful time. We were trying to learn how to do everything and get up to speed. And so we went into Iowa to a state conference. And I had the strongest impression that she was there with me. And so from that point forward, well, it was such a blessing to me. I kept saying to myself, if she can give her life, I can give three years.
- [12:48]
Podcast Host
Right.
- [12:49]
Wendy Topp
I really felt her with me and watching over me and helping to carry me until, you know, for six months to a year till I kind of got so that I loved the mission and I felt like I knew what I was doing. And so I always wanted to come home. And I thought I am going to track, see what I can find out about where she died. There was. There were, you know, a few page. These little, few page histories that. Written by the daughters of the Utah Pioneer kind of things. Those are the. That's all we had. I came home and I decided I'm going to write a biography of. Of them. I've got to write something longer. There's so much more that I could fill in. And so I decided to. And I really. I started to pray that that Heavenly Father would help me. I said I knew I didn't need it for her temple work, because they had their own temple work done. But I. I started saying, please, please, just let me know where she died so that we'll all know, you know, what happened to her. So I had that prayer, and I started by taking a church history class at BYU from the professor that I now work for.
- [14:08]
Podcast Host
Okay.
- [14:09]
Wendy Topp
And we had to write a paper. So I thought, I'm going to write about her, and in the meantime, I can be doing some research for this biography I want to write. And so I started with what I knew. I knew she was still in Nauvoo in the middle of 1846. And a lot of people don't realize that the saints did not all leave Nauvoo at once. There were about 3,000 that went out on that winter exodus that we always read about, but most of them were about probably 15,000 that just trickled out during the spring and the summer. And then by the fall of 1846, you had mostly the poor and those who. Those who couldn't sell their property and those who were too sick to travel left in Nauvoo. And they. That's where my grandmother was most likely was because she'd had a baby still in Nauvoo in July, and she had died along the trail in November of 1846. So they sent Brigham Young, sent what was called Poor Camp Rescue. They called him the Poor Camp. Now, I forgot to tell you also. So in. In the fall of 1846, these few sickly and poor people that were left in Nauvoo, the mob would not wait any longer. They were tired. They wanted them out. And so they. They attacked Nauvoo. And the Nauvoo Legion, what was left of them, was able to fight him off for a few days. But they finally said, what are we fighting for? We're going to surrender the city anyway. So they surrender, and supposedly they have a week to get out, but some of the mob wouldn't wait. And so they drove the people out at gunpoint. And they were on the banks of the Mississippi river, many of them without any shelter at all. Terribly sick, many of them. And no wagons, few wagons. And so I did a paper about that and found that there was a rescue that not very many people knew about. Three of them, and they knew about the first two, but hadn't put together this. This third one. And so I was able to write about that and even publish about it.
- [16:50]
Podcast Host
Wow. That's awesome.
- [16:52]
Wendy Topp
It was. It was kind of fun. But the important thing about that is that it gave me the clue he had come. And he said he took. He was the last one. One. And he said, I took the poorest of the poor and the sickest of the sick. Had this wonderful story about how, as he went along, everyone got better except for one sister who died as they reached Garden Grove.
- [17:24]
Podcast Host
Oh, my goodness.
- [17:27]
Wendy Topp
And I just felt so strongly that that was my grant. My third great grandmother, Harriet. And so I was so thrilled with that. And I, I. But I kept praying, you know, I, I know I can't know this for sure, but if there's any way. Well, fast forward to the end of that year, and Brother Bennett wanted to hire me to help him with his project because it's about temples, and I was a temple worker at the time, and he just wanted someone who had a lot of temple experience and could help him, you know, with some of the more sensitive research. So I started working for him. And about a year and a half later, we first started working with some of the. More, should I say this? Some of the records at the church history library that are not generally used by the public private records. And we walked into a room and they brought us the first record. And the very first thing we looked at, he handed it to me and I opened it up, and it was a record of some marriages and divorces and things like that. The very first page I opened to, it said, Harriet Nixon, died November 14, 1846, Garden Grove, Iowa.
- [19:16]
Podcast Host
Oh, wow.
- [19:19]
Wendy Topp
Recorded at the request of Stephen Nixon. This little book hadn't had any. It didn't have deaths in it. Everything else was, you know, vitals or marriages and, and other things like that. But the. The man who had written the book was a. Was a clerk named Thomas Bullock, and he was a dear friend of my great grandfather.
- [19:57]
Podcast Host
Wow.
- [19:59]
Wendy Topp
Apparently, Stephen had just wanted it written down somewhere because, you know, there's no graves, no markers or anything like that. She just buried. And so that was a testimony to me that, yeah, that is incredible, this information found. And since then, it's been remarkable, the. These, you know, in my ancestor. He was not a leader or a prominent member by any stretch of the imagination, and yet he is mentioned. I have found stories or references to him in so many sources as I worked on this church history project. And sometimes I would just, you know, kneel down and pray and say, I sure would like to know this. And lo and behold, in historical source. And I guess what I would want to tell people is, you know, go to the church history library, search through things that are not on the family History site even. A lot of these things are on the Internet. And it's just. I'm just flabbergasted at how much I have found specifically about him and, and his family in historical sources. Because, you know, on this particular project, we've gone through almost everything we can find. So. Yeah.
- [21:39]
Podcast Host
Yeah, that is such a good reminder and tip. I think that especially when we have a specific person in mind, that we're thinking of where you had Stephen and Harriet Nixon, and you were very specific about, you know, the people you were trying to find out about. And I think that the Lord is just. And our angels and all the people in the spirit world, they're just waiting for us to take an interest in them so that they can give us these little tender mercies. And I think that's, yeah, such a. Just, Just a beautiful reminder of the miracles that exist and little things that we can find that can help us piece together these puzzles. So. That is so, so cool. That's it.
- [22:18]
Wendy Topp
Yes, that's it, exactly. I, I really. That's what I've gained from this, is that they are there. They want us to know them. And interestingly, I've even, you know, found out some things that really surprised me a little bit. But, you know, if I. When I name it, I think I'm gonna call it Faith Enough. Because they made their mistakes.
- [22:43]
Podcast Host
Yes. And we all do.
- [22:46]
Wendy Topp
There they are. They're in the history sometimes. But it makes me think, oh, you know, if they made it, I can make it. And they. They managed to stay faithful in spite of these things and, you know, what a difference. They weren't perfect, but they managed to stay faithful. And look what a difference it's made, you know, for me.
- [23:09]
Podcast Host
Yeah, there's so.
- [23:13]
Wendy Topp
Yes. Great experience.
- [23:16]
Podcast Host
That is so cool. So are you. Did you say you're turning this into a book or what is your. What's your end goal with this?
- [23:23]
Wendy Topp
Yes, it will be a book. And I. I hope to put it online. I hope to put it online until I can get it, you know, perfected. Because there is so much I just keep finding more and more I can put in to help people understand not just what they were doing, but what was going on around them and how, you know, how those circumstances must have affected their lives and. But it is. I'm already, you know, I'm in the 12th chapter already. Chapters, but like I said, if you, if you really go on a hunt, it's remarkable what you can find. And you look at, you know, you look into histories of, like, I did the poor camp, you know, what was going on at the time they were there. And the people look for diaries or, like, histories of Provo City. I've looked at and unusual incident, and Stephen Nixon was at the center of it. And so everything you can think of, any kind of history or diary related to that particular time, it. It's just surprising how much is out there and how much they want to help us, how much they want us to know them.
- [24:55]
Podcast Host
Yes. Yeah. I think you brought up. I mean, you brought up so many good points, and I just loved hearing you talk about all of it. But I think one thing especially that I love is that you had mentioned, you know, Stephen and Harriet Nixon. They already had their temple work done, and you just didn't really know a whole lot about them. And I feel like there's a lot of people who talk to me and they say either all of my. All of the work in my family tree has been done, so there's nothing for me to do, or they feel. Or they feel overwhelmed and they're not quite sure where to get started. And so I love how you said that even though they already had their work done. And I. I totally believe in temple work and, you know, trying to do all the work that we can for our ancestors, but I also firmly believe in learning about them and uncovering the stories and just getting to know them, because I believe, like you, that they're still alive. They're just. We just can't see them right now.
- [25:50]
Wendy Topp
Exactly. You know, and I think that's why the church is going out of their way to create so many sources. You know, the trail, the immigration, the trail stories, the missionary stories, all those things are now available. And that's obviously not for us just to get their temple work done and check them off. Right. Wants us to. And the heart, when they say the hearts of the children are turned to the fathers and the hearts of the fathers to the children, that's happening even. Even more now in. In that way. Not just that we know each other's statistics, but that they're on the other side and they're wanting to help us. And one of the ways that they're doing that is by helping us to know them.
- [26:42]
Podcast Host
Yeah.
- [26:43]
Wendy Topp
So. Yeah. And to. To know the heritage that we have or the legacy or, you know, just knowing about your family can strengthen you. So.
- [26:55]
Podcast Host
Yeah, there's so many. So many benefits. So. So it's just such a wonderful thing. And I. I love that you brought that up, and I love how you. You started out with a simple. I mean, maybe not simple is the right word, but just you had a specific task. You wanted to write a biography and fill in the gaps of the details that you had for Stephen and Harriet. And throughout the process, you know, you just had so many little tender mercies and miracles unfold. And so for anyone listening, I love to just tell people to pick one, you know, pick a couple in your tree and find someone who you feel drawn to. I think that prayer is such a. Is such a huge key part to family history work, and I think that we can be drawn specifically to certain people. And so. So, yeah, there's just so many. You brought up so many great points, and I'm just so grateful for you sharing all of that with us.
- [27:47]
Wendy Topp
Well, thank you so much for inviting me. It's very dear to me.
- [27:52]
Podcast Host
Yes, I can tell. So before I let you go, I would love, if there's any last words of advice you have for my listeners. Maybe, you know, things that you like to encourage people with, maybe if they're feeling overwhelmed or any other parting words of advice that you have would be wonderful.
- [28:11]
Wendy Topp
Wow. Well, yeah, overwhelmed is. Is so easy. Like you say, and I think you've already said it. Well, you know, but maybe, maybe choose someone whose story either you're drawn to them or their story might bless your children. That's something, you know, because these. Growing up in a part member, you know, home and, and wanting the church in my life, I was so drawn to my LDS ancestors and, and I appreciate Stephen and Harriet because they were the first they joined the church in England here. And that's what I want my children to know is this is dear to me because the church is dear to me. And here's what I want you to know about them and why I love them so much because gospel into my life. And so I guess that's what I would say if you, you know, if you can find someone who would inspire your children or your family and help them through there, you know, times are getting really difficult and.
- [29:32]
Podcast Host
Yes. Yeah, that's. That's such a good reminder, I think. I've been reading your. Your husband's book, what's on the Other side. Because I, like I said, I'm just so fascinated by the spirit world, but I think that's one thing. And also Sister Nelson has talked about this a lot where she talks about angels and, you know, being able to ask. Ask them specifically to help someone in need. So either a child or, you know, a parent or whoever in your family who's struggling. So I think that as we invest in our ancestors, they can. They are then so much more willing and able to invest in us. So.
- [30:10]
Wendy Topp
Absolutely.
- [30:13]
Podcast Host
So beautiful. All right. Well, Wendy, thank you again for coming on the show. It has been such a treat to talk to you. I'm just so grateful for all that you're doing and the example that you are.
- [30:25]
Wendy Topp
Well, thank you. I don't know about example, but I can. I can talk. Anyway,
- [30:36]
Podcast Host
I appreciate you being here so much, and I'm so thankful for all of your support over the last few months and years that I've been doing this. I know it's been a little sporadic over time, but I have decided for now to step away from the podcast and focus on other things. So I am just so grateful for you. And if you want to find more of me and what I'm doing in this family history journey journey, you can always follow me on social media, send me an email or sign up for one of my online courses, which are amazing. So I've put all of the links in the show notes. I have two more episodes to bring to you before I step away for the time being. And again, I'm just so grateful for each one of you and for your support.