Mixed Signals from Semafor Media

Director Ari Aster on ‘the movie that Twitter wrote’

Released: July 18, 2025
Hosts: Max Tani & Ben Smith
Guest: Ari Aster

Overview

This episode features an in-depth conversation with acclaimed filmmaker Ari Aster about his new film Eddington. The discussion explores why, after the cultural trauma of COVID, Aster chose to make a movie set during the pandemic—and even more notably, why he created a "horror movie about the media." The conversation dives into how Twitter and algorithm-driven media shaped the film, the challenges of representing contemporary reality on screen, the rise of conspiracy thinking, empathy across ideological divides, and the looming influence of AI. Aster also reveals his surprising flirtation with a Marvel film and offers sharp observations about the present and future of storytelling.

Main Themes and Key Discussion Points

The Motivation and Genesis of Eddington

• Ari Aster’s Personal Connection: Set in his home state of New Mexico; the original script predated COVID but was reworked to capture the pandemic moment and rising media fragmentation.
  • “I had written a script that was set in New Mexico…something of a contemporary Western...In May, June 2020, I was living in hell like the rest of us, and I thought I ought to make a movie about this.” — Ari Aster [07:40]
• Media as Modern Horror: The real terror is not just COVID, but the way media and digital silos corrode social trust and fuel paranoia.
  • “The true horror of this movie is like, Instagram reels and how YouTube warps your mind.” — Max Tani [04:40]
• COVID as Backdrop: The pandemic is both the environment and a metaphor; the film’s focus is how society fails to process collective trauma while being transformed by media.
  • “Covid is really kind of the setting...but one of the bigger themes...is all of these characters...living in their phones and who are getting a very distinct experience through their phone that is very different than their neighbors.” — Max Tani [12:23]

Portraying Fragmented Realities and Social Bubbles

• Information Silos: The movie immerses viewers in an environment where every character experiences a unique, algorithm-driven world.
  • “Everybody’s algorithm is so different...You have Fox News, you have some Tucker Carlson that’s in there...I’m really curious, you know, what do you think the role is that media plays in this film?” — Max Tani [12:23]
• Research Approach: Aster embedded himself in social media “bubbles”—even creating burner profiles to understand divergent online realities.
  • “This is basically the movie that Twitter wrote...I created different profiles on Twitter and I got myself into different algorithms, and I started taking screenshots of those. And so that was a big part of this.” — Ari Aster [15:12]
• Key Insight: The deeper one goes into a media silo, the more irretrievable one becomes.
  • “Depending on what you’re clicking on and what you’re liking, the more kind of, like, irretrievable you are. No surprise, but it was disturbing.” — Ari Aster [17:09]

Empathy, Polarization, and Portrayal of COVID Conflicts

• Seeking Empathy Across Divides:
  • “Part of the project here was to be as empathetic as I could be towards everybody...even those with oppositional convictions.” — Ari Aster [18:01]
  • Aster engaged with local officials and residents from both liberal and conservative backgrounds to authentically render differing perspectives.
• Limits of Public Discourse: Both sides often fall back on prescribed talking points; the film tries to humanize everyone and avoid easy caricature.
• Medical Community’s Failure: Reflection from prior episode with Dr. Mike emphasizes the importance of understanding public confusion and humanity, not just delivering official guidance.
  • “There's a tendency to just dehumanize people who you don't agree with. But...it's very important...to see the humanity in people you maybe disagree with. Because we're all subject to the same forces.” — Ari Aster [21:02]

Conspiracy, Media Mania, and Cultural Memory

• JFK and the Conspiracy Zeitgeist:
  • Aster drew inspiration from Oliver Stone’s JFK as a lens into America’s recurring conspiracy fever.
    • “We’re a country of Jim Garrison’s now.” — Ari Aster, quoting himself [26:04]
  • He notes how conspiracy culture is non-partisan and historical, now amplified by digital media:
    • “We’re living in a time where...the Internet has kind of flattened everything. There’s just no, like, nobody knows what’s going on.” — Ari Aster [28:28]
  • The proliferation of conspiracy narratives and the quest for “heroic” exposure of supposed lies:
    • “It comes from the absolute certainty that we’re being lied to, which, of course, we are. And so at that point, it’s just, once you’ve decided that, where do you go?” — Ari Aster [28:28]

Dread, Violence, and the Role of Media

• Fear of Escalating Division: Aster expresses ongoing anxiety about political violence and notes leaders’ lack of interest in lowering the temperature.
  • “When I started writing this in 2020, it’s because I felt that we had reached a boiling point, and I felt violence coming…If this continues, it's coming, it's in my bones.” — Ari Aster [29:46]
• Media as Virus: Ultimately, media fragmentation may be more corrosive than the pandemic itself.
  • “Covid wasn’t the problem…media was the problem. You could tell this whole story…without Covid.” — Ben Smith [45:23]
  • The film is described as a Western “where instead of guns, you have phones.” [46:38]

Artificial Intelligence: Threat, Tool, or Both?

• AI as Looming Crisis: The movie includes a plotline about an AI data center under construction—a metaphor for future threats.
  • “AI in almost every sector is just too big to fail. And so it’s coming…I wish we would just find a path that didn’t scare the shit out of me.” — Ari Aster [31:22]
• Deepfakes and Trust: Aster is especially concerned by the normalization of AI-generated images and the collapse of “video/audio evidence.”
  • “I found the AI generated imagery when it first started appearing to be very interesting and startling and frightening...Now it looks real. And that’s really dangerous.” [31:22]
• No More Utopian Tech?: Previous digital optimism about democratizing information has mutated; AI lacks even a “utopian theory of the case.”
  • “With AI, there's...there really isn't [a utopian ideal], right?” — Max Tani [34:29]

Hollywood, Risk-Taking, and Streaming Disruption

• The Content Crisis:
  • Blockbuster strategy (Marvel, Jurassic Park) now yields diminishing returns. Some hope this opens space for riskier, artist-driven films.
    • “Fewer and fewer films are considered home runs, and that includes Marvel movies...Maybe there’s more room for risk taking.” — Ari Aster [36:35]
• Marvel Near-Miss: Aster confirms he was once approached to direct "Morbius," but passed.
  • “Yes, once.” — Ari Aster [38:02]
• The Changing Star System: Movie stardom has lost its primacy; influencers and TikTok stars now rival classic actors in cultural cachet.
  • “Younger people...don't distinguish as much between a movie star and an influencer or a TikTok star or something like that.” — Max Tani [38:28]
• Looking to the Future:
  • Aster notes a lack of faith in the future and a tendency toward nostalgia or trauma, rather than envisioning a new path.
    • “I think there’s not a lot of belief in the future right now. And I’m really desperate for…a new idea of what the future could be as opposed to the one that is being projected right now.” [39:58]
  • Eddington is described as a period piece and an invitation to reflect and maybe rediscover solidarity.

Humor in the Darkness

• Intentionally Funny: Despite the heavy themes, Aster insists Eddington is meant to be a fun, satirical film.
  • “Just because I ended on kind of a lofty human plea, it’s also supposed to be fun. The movie's supposed to be funny.” — Ari Aster [41:28]
  • “The theater was laughing. The theater that I was in was cracking up. I was laughing. I thought it was fucking hilarious.” — Max Tani [41:39]

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On living in the Internet:
  • “All of the stories and all of the characters in Eddington are really just from one perspective, training data. The movie Eddington is training data.” — Ari Aster [10:29]
• On the depth of algorithmic bubbles:
  • “It told me what I already knew, but it was more alarming than I expected…the deeper I went…the more irretrievable you are.” — Ari Aster [17:09]
• On the challenge of empathy:
  • “I want these people to be, you know, flesh and blood and, like, real. And I…liked all of these people. And, you know, look, I'm on the left…but I actually found [conservatives] to be, in some ways, just…more interesting.” — Ari Aster [18:01]
• On the internet’s failed promise:
  • “There was this utopian idea that…the Internet is a great tool for disseminating information…But…everything became commodified and now it’s this like, hellscape.” — Ari Aster [34:29]
• On conspiracy thinking:
  • “Where the film [JFK] is valuable…is the way that it captures the fever of conspiracy thinking.” — Ari Aster [27:12]
• On AI and fear:
  • “I didn’t ask for it. Like, you know, like, who…Even the people who are ushering it in…they’re kind of cleaning their hands by saying, like, look, we warned you.” — Ari Aster [33:03]
• On nihilism and hope:
  • “Maybe there could be some solidarity…some opportunity to…see more clearly how we were, and then maybe…how we are and…how do we get off [this path].” — Ari Aster [39:58]

Segment Timestamps

• [01:51] — Introduction & setup of themes: COVID’s ongoing ripple effects, Eddington as a Western/horror about the media
• [07:14] — Ari Aster joins to discuss the film’s genesis, development, and why COVID
• [09:07] — Why so few COVID films? The normalization (and denial) of trauma
• [12:23] — How media shapes subjective reality; building a filmic “media atmosphere”
• [15:12] — “The movie that Twitter wrote”: Aster’s research immersing in different media bubbles
• [17:31] — Did algorithmic research shift Aster’s perspective? (Empathy vs. alienation)
• [18:01] — Interviewing across divides, modeling characters on real research
• [21:02] — Dehumanization, messaging, and the shared experience of pandemic confusion
• [26:04] — Inspirations: JFK, conspiracy, and media-fueled mania
• [29:46] — Anxiety about boiling-point division, unaddressed political violence
• [31:22] — The threat and inevitability of AI; collapse of trust in “evidence”
• [34:29] — Broken promises of the internet; no utopian narrative for AI
• [36:35] — The creative risks (and failures) of today’s Hollywood; Marvel rumor
• [38:28] — Streaming, stardom, and the changing cultural landscape
• [39:58] — Do we still believe in the future?
• [41:28] — The film’s humor: “It’s also supposed to be fun”
• [44:20] — Hosts’ reflections on Aster’s media insight, empathy, and COVID’s disruption

Tone and Takeaways

The episode balances urgency and gloom with dark humor and sharp self-awareness—mirroring Aster's own approach in Eddington. The hosts and guest avoid easy answers, instead wrestling with the complexities of the pandemic era, the algorithm-driven media that shapes perception, and the paradox of a hyperconnected, yet increasingly fractured society.

Eddington is presented as a vital, difficult work: a movie about the way we live now, both infectious and infectious in its appeal. As Ben Smith sums up:

“He said, this is the movie that Twitter made. I mean, that’s like the worst tagline I’ve ever heard. And no one who hears that will watch it. But that’s...a very astute treatment of this reality.” [44:20]

Recommended for:
Anyone interested in media, technology, film, and the ways in which collective reality is constructed (and deconstructed) in the digital age.