← Mixed Signals from Semafor Media
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- [00:00]
Maverick Carter
Foreign.
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Max Tawny
Welcome to another episode of the Mixed
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Semaphore Media Editor
Signals podcast from us here at Semaphore Media, where we are talking to all of the most important and interesting people shaping our new media age.
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Max Tawny
I'm Max Tawny.
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Semaphore Media Editor
I'm the media editor here at Semaphore, and with me, as always, is our editor in chief, Ben Smith. Ben. Ben, did you enjoy our annual convening of the Semaphore world economy? What did you take away from it?
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Ben Smith
Yeah, it was pretty amazing. I mean, we had, you know, like half the cabinet, 500 CEOs, quarter of the Senate, and all these global officials in Washington for a week. And I don't know, I mean, we're still using AI to process it all, but you really do come away with a sense of how the world is
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Semaphore Media Editor
thinking we're using AI to process it all.
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Max Tawny
What does that mean?
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Semaphore Media Editor
What?
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Ben Smith
Stay tuned.
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Semaphore Media Editor
Okay. Okay, I guess I will. Maybe I'll ask Claude what you meant by that.
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Max Tawny
But one of the people who we
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Semaphore Media Editor
had at the event last week was Maverick Carter. He is the longtime business partner of LeBron James. He was the co founder of Spring Hill Entertainment, which he recently merged with Full, well, another entertainment content studio. And I got the opportunity to chat with him for about 15 minutes on stage, which we both thought was a really interesting conversation about the future of sports media, the future of celebrity driven media and Hollywood. And of course, you know, as many fans of the show might know, actually a few fans of the show definitely know because I've gotten some books and things sent my way. I'm a big fan of the Los Angeles Lakers and their superstar LeBron James. And so it was awesome to get to ask Mav a little bit and get some hints about what his future might hold. But, Ben, what did you think about this with Maverick Carter? Why did you want to book him for our global gathering of business leaders?
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Ben Smith
Well, I think he and, you know, LeBron were honestly these kind of visionary media figures of the last decade. I mean, people are sort of sick of celebrities and athletes setting up production companies and talking about all that stuff now. But they were among the first with, I guess, Reese Witherspoon and hello Sunshine, and they really became these arms dealers to the streaming boom. And for a moment, this was a model that everybody copied. And then I think the interesting conversation is, as the world changes, where they go to. But I really do think Maverick as sort of a media entrepreneur was just wildly ahead of the curve.
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Max Tawny
Yeah.
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Semaphore Media Editor
And you know, the other thing too is I actually think that they get lumped in to a certain degree. And I've lumped them in as well with Will Smith's Westbrook and with, as you mentioned, hello Sunshine, the Obama's Higher ground productions. This kind of in some ways, I guess they're the Obamas aren't totally celebrities, but you know, the celebrity focused media arms. But LeBron and Maverick Carter were thinking about how to do things differently in the media space from a much younger age. Mav was one of the people who was involved in the decision, which was LeBron James's obviously very famous decision to leave Cleveland and go to the Miami Heat. And that was a really interesting moment because it was a chance for that LeBron and Maverick Carter realized that they could do things a little differently. They didn't have to hold a press conference and announce this. They didn't have to leak it to a media outlet. They could literally produce and engineer it all by themselves. Now, it backfired in a spectacular way, but they were actually too early on it.
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Ben Smith
But this is honestly every public figure corporation athlete now is the sort of control over your own content. And this is something they were just
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Semaphore Media Editor
so early to well, we asked Mav about that. We asked him about the future of global basketball, which he is involved in. And of course we asked him about what LeBron James is going to do after he retires. So we'll have Mav Carter right after this and then Ben and I to break it all down at the end of the episode. Foreign
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Joshua Spaniar
hi, I'm Joshua Spaniar, VP of Marketing at Google, and you might assume I have all the answers when it comes to marketing. The truth, I'm just as curious to learn discover the answers to everything as everyone else. We are living through a total reset of our marketing industry. The old maps don't work, which means we get to chart a new path forward. It's dynamic, it's fast paced and honestly, there's never been a more exciting time to be in marketing. That is why we've started a new podcast, Frontier cmo. It's from Think with Google and I promise it's not just a bunch of corporate waffle. I'm sitting down with people who really know what's going on. CMOs, creators, technologists, the lot. And we're having a property unfiltered chat about what's working and quite frankly, what isn't. These are your notes from the Frontier. So do me a favor, search for Frontier CMO wherever you get your podcasts or watch us and subscribe on YouTube.
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Max Tawny
Mav, thank you so much for being here. We're really excited. Most people in this room, it's pretty, pretty smart crowd, they know you. But I want to just read a few notable bits to kind of orient the conversation.
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Maverick Carter
I hate this part.
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Max Tawny
I know, I'm sorry. I watched it. I watched Shane Smith do this, you know, to prepare for this interview. But you kind of have to do it, which is you're the co CEO of Full well Entertainment, you founded Spring Hill, you're a longtime business partner of LeBron James. You were one of the people behind Nike's first ever lifetime endorsement deal for LeBron, which I believe at the time was the biggest endorsement deal ever. And you've made some very wise, smart investments in Beats and in Liverpool. Your career has really risen with LeBron's. It's mirrored LeBron's in some ways. You guys have kind of come up together. You've seen it since the beginning. As LeBron enters the next phase of his career thinking about what he's kind of going to do next. How will that change and shape what you both are doing? How will it be different in this
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Semaphore Media Editor
kind of next phase?
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Maverick Carter
Well, the world we live in today is so interesting and cool because it changes every second and every minute. So if you think about an athlete like LeBron or his caliber, you know, not that long ago, 20 years ago, 15 years ago, it would be most thought about like sportscasting or broadcasting. But now, because of the technology and what we have and access, where someone like him who has become a person, who has a global fan base can tap into that to those fans. I think what we've already built at full well is the ability to have creativity in production. A whole company that does that every single day. You know, we produce the Grammys, we're producing the 28 Olympics, all of the, all the ceremonies for the 28 Olympics, we're making those. We make the Kardashians. So we have a team of people that can produce and create at a high caliber. So he is actually going to come to us what his vision is. How does he want to keep creating content and telling stories that connect with his fans? And how do we build a suite of shows around that? And then the beauty of it is today distribution is everywhere. So someone like LeBron's caliber, who has a big draw, you can get distribution anywhere and really connect with people and build a show, just us, without anybody else.
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Max Tawny
How do you kind of balance the. I'm already going off my scripted questions. How do you kind of balance the desire to. You're an on camera personality in some of these shows like the shop. You know, LeBron obviously. Also, he has his podcast with Steve Nash, which is, you know, really fantastic. Mind the game. How do you kind of balance how much to put yourselves into these projects versus the stuff that you want to do with you guys?
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Semaphore Media Editor
Not as the talent.
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Maverick Carter
Well, I mean, contrary to what you or anyone may believe, I never wanted to do that. That's not what I wanted to do. I was kind of with the Shop. Honestly. It was an executive there who was buying the show at the time, was really compelled. Whatever compelled him. He said, hey, I'll do this and make this show with you guys. But Matt, I want you on in the chair. I didn't really want to do it. It was actually HBO at the time. Who am I to tell HBO what the hell to do? It was HBO at the time. No, it's a little wonky now, but it was the greatest brand in all of television. So I never really wanted to do it. And then my company and I did that. People liked it. My company pushed me. I'd rather run the company. That's what I always. That's what my dream was to do. I think for LeBron, it's. For him, he's much more of a person who obviously billions of people know around the world. But the through line through all of it, even when I was on the Shop and other things that I've done, is like being ourselves and being authentic and being who we are, discussing the things that we know about and being curious about the things we don't. And now we obviously have a company that is way outgrown he or I, and we make lots of things. So, you know, for us to be in more than like a tiny little, you know, we made 20 shows, 20 different things for Netflix alone this year, and 15 for Amazon. So people think we're in a lot, but we're in a small amount of things that the company does.
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Max Tawny
So to kind of shift gears a little bit, it's a really interesting moment for professional basketball, which you've seen up close play. The game is better than ever. We have some of the most skilled players of all time, but there's a lot of questions around the business and the future of the league. Ratings are down. You know, there's a lot of talk about tanking, about load management. Do you think that the NBA is in need of some change, Some major change or reinvention similar to what we've seen in Major League Baseball, which seems like it's been a Success.
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Maverick Carter
Yeah, I think first off, I think the ratings were up this year actually in the NBA. But. But they did go. They put a lot of games that were mostly on cable onto NBC. So you expect to see some things go up. But I do think, I think any and every business, especially in today's day and age has to change even faster than ever. And I think with again, when you talk about technology, the distribution of technology and then ultimately if you're in the business that I am, which is the same one that the NBA is, which is really the attention business, you want people to pay attention and watch the things that you make. The product, your product is essentially a thing that people don't consume. They watch it, they consume it. They sit and you have to get their attention. And once you get their attention, you have to hold it. So I think how that is done, how you get to people. The NBA doesn't have a distribution problem. I think as they think about how they get people's attention and keep it is something they have to keep iterating on as they go forward for sure. And like last night there was the NBA play in for the NBA playoffs which had a lot of stakes because the losing team went away. And I think stakes is always a way to get and keep people's attention and get people talking. And it also not only gets people who watch, but also the players playing care at a different level because it's literally win or go home. So I think into the future, I think basketball is in fantastic shape globally. Basketball is far and away the second biggest sport in the world. The only one bigger would be soccer. And it's a. The third one is a far down NBA. I mean basketball is second by a wide margin. Third is far away. So I think they have a good place there. They have great distribution for the next 11 years. They made that new media deal. That's fantastic. But I think as they think about literally the product that we consume and getting people who are much younger than me to watch and get their attention and keep their attention. They're absolutely going to have to make some changes. I think it's to add stakes to more of the games.
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Max Tawny
That's interesting. Right. The play in kind of did that.
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Maverick Carter
But the in season tournament, they tried it. But the business model actually needs some adjusting is what I think. Because if you don't adjust the business model, which is an inventory model, right. They have 30 teams playing 82 games and they sell that inventory to media channels. It's hard to adjust it without adjusting
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Max Tawny
the business Will adding teams actually make that? Will that actually lower the stakes a little bit?
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Maverick Carter
I wouldn't say it lowers the stakes. It just adds more inventory. You go from 30 teams playing 82 games, which is whatever that math is, roughly 2400, 2500 games. Are you going to add two more teams? So you had another 160 games. So it just, I wouldn't say it lowers the stakes. I would say it's par for the stakes. I would say it adds inventory, which makes it, you need more people to get more attention from more people once you add inventory.
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Semaphore Media Editor
Right. I had a lot more questions for Mav Carter, but we have to take a short break right now. But we'll be back more with those questions after this.
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Ben Smith
In this week's branded segment from Think with Google, I Talked to Google's VP of marketing, Josh Spanier about AI's evolution. It's been a few weeks since we talked about AI, Josh, but in your Frontier CMO podcast and in your conversations with marketers, how are feelings about AI evolving?
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Joshua Spaniar
Ben, this sounds a little cheesy, but I've been thinking about this in terms of uhoh to let's go. The first three years of the digital transformation, the AI transformation we've all been going through, was really around uncertainty and efficiency getting more for less. But what I'm seeing with really advanced progressive marketers is that efficiency only gets you so far. And actually the let's go part of this is reinventing marketing using new tools, new systems, new ways of working to actually do things that in marketing we've never been able to do before. So inside of Google Marketing, we've been able to synthesize creative testing, outcome based planning, synthetic audiences, idea generation in the space of an afternoon to actually find new things that we've never done before. That's really, really exciting. This let's go attitude is actually being reflected in how people are using Google's products as well, which is really, really exciting. How they're using AI mode in search, how they're using creative tools to generate stuff for YouTube. It's actually seeing people really excited about the possibilities instead of asking or fearing what AI is going to do to them, asking what they can do with AI. That's a whole mindset shift, which I think is really, really exciting.
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Ben Smith
You can hear more of Josh's conversations with marketers on his new show Frontier cmo.
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Max Tawny
You mentioned the growth of global basketball, second biggest sport in the world. Last year. There was some viral thing about you on the boat with LeBron Jokic's agent. You know, you were kind of consulting in an informal way for Project B, which is this new international basketball league. Can you tell us anything about what that league is going to look like? The men's version, which should be, I believe starts later this fall. And how that's going to be different from the NBA's expansion into Europe, the EuroLeague, all of the other kind of global basketball? How is that going to be different?
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Maverick Carter
Again, I think basketball globally is in great shape and continues to grow. By any measure, basketball is second globally. But one big one is how many domestic leagues there are around the world. China has a really big robust league. Europe has a league in basically every country. And then they have the Europe league, European league, the European championship essentially. Then of course there's the NBA, that is King Kong of all these leagues. But I think no one has created a truly global league that truly taps into basketball fans around the world with one product that fans care about. And the guys starting Project B, that's what they're after. They're trying to create a truly global league like F1. If you think about F1, you know, NASCAR is fantastic, but F1 is truly global. They race all around the world. You know, though, most of the drivers are from western countries because you kind of need money to be a great F1 driver. Basketball has the opposite, right? Anyone can play be great at basketball because the barrier for entry into the sport is so low. But the guys at Project B are attempting to build a global basketball league that matters and has stakes. And I believe that should be should come true also. But I think it shouldn't just be Europe or America. There should be a global basketball business that has stakes. And that doesn't mean all the domestic leagues, including the NBA and Europe are going to exist and they should exist. But there's enough basketball fans and enough basketball players to go around and build multiple leagues around the world. And I think the way those guys at Project B are attempting to do it should exist and it needs to exist. And I think sure, the NBA is going to go into Europe. I think they're going to there already find challenges with that just because Europe already has a very well established basketball leagues. And you know, you go to Spain or the best league is the Baltic league with Serbia and Slovenia. Those leagues are very well established and the European league is very well established. So I think the NBA going in there, they're going to find some roadblocks, but that's their thing to figure out. But global basketball being figured out definitely needs to happen.
- [17:32]
Max Tawny
Two quick questions because we're running out of time. Your company, Springhill, recently, somewhat recently, last two years, merged with Fullwell. You're the co CEO. What does the combined company do that neither could do?
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Maverick Carter
So both the two big things we got is at Springhill we had a pretty robust. We were way ahead of them on kind of digital, the digital side of content business. How are you creating shows that live on YouTube that most importantly become IP like the shop? We have the show, mind the game that we own. But when you own something, everybody's like, I want to own something, I want to own it, I want to own it. But then the burden is on you to monetize it also, right? And to take the risk of putting up capital to fund it and keep it going and put capital in to grow it, which is a fantastic thing. Fullo had that we didn't have. And now our company has both. Obviously, that's the beauty of a merger. Through all the pain we went through of integration, we. They had. They were the biggest and best in the world in live. Like we again, we produced the Grammys. We're going to do the oldest ceremonies for the 28 Olympics in LA. The opening and closing ceremonies for both the Olympics Paralympics. We did Harry Styles Live at Manchester in Manchester this year. That was just on Netflix. We did One Shot with Ed Sheeran that was just on Netflix. So they were the best in the world at live. And the guy who leads that, Ben Winston, my partner, and Gabe Turner, they were just the best in the world. That and we didn't know live and together. That is where the content, the future of the content business is really. There's really upside in live entertainment, live experiences and the digital side of the business, scripted business. There's still a lot of growth and a lot to be done, but it's really like finding a needle in the haystack to find a hit scripted show. It's really hard to do.
- [19:25]
Max Tawny
Last question for you. I know that you're not going to tell me you're not going to make news on stage, though I wish that you would about what LeBron is going to do next season, whether he's going to continue to play, whether he's going to retire. I'm from Southern California. I would prefer that he played for the Lakers, but, you know, we can set that aside. But when you guys are having a glass of wine, having dinner, you know, talking about what his future looks like, what's the advice that you give him? What do you suggest that he do?
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Maverick Carter
It changes between glass one and glass nine.
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Semaphore Media Editor
Okay.
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Max Tawny
What do you say on glass nine?
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Maverick Carter
In glass nine, it's like, incredible what you've done. Don't worry about what people think. Just continue to be you whenever you decide you've had enough, be done with it and live your life and enjoy your family and more wine and your kids and who gives a shit what happens? It's been an amazing ride. We've done amazing things. Continue. Obviously he loves his community. He gives back to his community a bunch and can just really continue to do what fulfills you, what makes you feel good. Because that's what the rest of the world is doing too. We all assume that people care about everything we do. No, everybody's too busy caring about themselves. So I try and tell them to make sure you focus on yourself.
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Max Tawny
Well, that feels like a great place to end it. Mav, thank you so much. It's been a great time.
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Maverick Carter
Thank you, guys.
- [20:49]
Ben Smith
Marketing used to change by the year. Now it changes by the week. And if you're trying to keep up using last quarter's logic, you're already behind. Think With Google is there to help. Think with Google is a compass for the modern marketer. It's the place to learn how AI is evolving. Search to see exactly which creators are shaping culture on YouTube and to transform your measurement. It's where you go to ensure your 2026 strategy isn't stuck in 2025. Don't just keep up, stay ahead. Head over to thinkwithgoogle.com today. Okay, that was an incredibly fun conversation. I'm kind of jealous that I did not get to be a part of it. And obviously it was largely a conversation about basketball, inevitably. But there was a little bit in there about media.
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Max Tawny
Sorry to our listeners. We got some sports fans. I will say.
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Ben Smith
No, no, that was sports. Sports is media. Sports is. In some days, I think sports is all of media. But I guess I'm curious what you took from that about. There is this sense that the Spring Heel era is sort of over and they made the most of it. Do you think that that thread of a kind of athlete led business continues or do we go back to the world that Maverick kind of referenced as the. Where you just kind of go and become a sportscaster?
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Semaphore Media Editor
I actually think that they are better positioned than pretty much anybody else in this space because they have that ace in the hole. That's LeBron James. You can see this with his own show, which Mav references in the interview. Mind the Game, which is, you know, a pretty they didn't come up with the concept of an athlete hosted podcast that's happening while the season is going on, but they took it to another level with a level of detail, insider knowledge and of course, you know, the idea that LeBron James is gonna be sounding off on things that are happening and giving his in depth perspective on things that are happening essentially right now. And they've also been able to just use the amazing connections that both that. That the entire team has to book incredible superstars on the show. So they have that component and that's where Mav said that they do the digital thing quite well. And they've had some success with certain shows like this. You know, they had. And regardless of what you think of the quality. And this is in a slightly different bucket, but they made the remake of Space Jam. So they, They've done some.
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Max Tawny
They. They have.
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Ben Smith
How was it? I don't think I caught that one.
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Max Tawny
I. I was not a fan and
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Semaphore Media Editor
I think a lot of people didn't. It. It got panned, but it was interesting and it came out during the pan at the, at the right time, kind of in a certain moment of the, of the pandemic. But I think that they've got kind
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Max Tawny
of an ace in the hole.
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Semaphore Media Editor
Clearly they're thinking about what the future is going to be. And you can see a world in which they do something very similar to, to what Peyton Mannings have done with Omaha Productions and kind of spin out all of these different projects. And now they're saying they have live as well. So it'll be really interesting to see kind of how they juice the live component with the people they have as a part of their little stable. I kind of see it.
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Ben Smith
Is there anything left for independent sports media in here? Or do the leagues and the athletes ultimately own the whole conversation?
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Semaphore Media Editor
You know, it's really interesting because there are really popular individual sports creators we've seen some success in people operating outside of the kind of mainstream, like Pablo Torre, who's been a huge thorn in the side of the NBA and of some other leagues and some famous players and coaches. And you know, obviously we had Pablo on the show to talk about it and he did a tremendous job. But I do think that the real center of power is of course, with the players who now, if they have smart management and they have a clear, well thought out plan, they can really build hugely successful businesses and enterprises on their own that attract huge ad dollars and sponsorships.
- [24:35]
Maverick Carter
Yeah.
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Ben Smith
And are sort of safe in that regard. I mean, I think there will Always be space for Pablo and some independent investigative types at some point. Recently I was talking to somebody, a lawyer who works with, let's say with a professional sports team, and asked them what that job was like and they said, ah, that's about 70% coverups. So I feel like there's always gonna be. There's always gonna be some in there. But let's get to your true passion here, basketball. What does the globalization of basketball, what is that about? At a moment of waning American soft power, broadly, the soft power of basketball is unbelievable what is happening.
- [25:13]
Semaphore Media Editor
It's really interesting to hear Mav diagnose and kind of work through some of this on stage. And I think I ultimately mostly agree with his perspective, which is that basketball is the second largest sport in the world, clearly behind football. It's grown tremendously in its importance culturally around the world and its influence and its popularity. It's the reason why so many of the best players in the NBA, NBA right now are international players. I mean, of the top five players in the NBA, only one arguably is American. These days. The NBA has a problem and there's an opportunity in global basketball, which is that there are a lot more good quality athletes and there's still only one dominant league which gobbles up all of the attention and the money and the talent. And so if the Project B team is able to kind of siphon away some of that and build what sounds like from what Mav was talking about to be some sort of like F1 tournament style game, they could theoretically build a competitor to the NBA. The NBA really is limited by geography. You can't have teams fly from Portland, Oregon to Paris, France and play. It's the reason why they can't be in the same league because it doesn't make sense in terms of when to watch the games. It's too burdensome and taxing on. On the actual schedule, which means that there's a real opportunity. If there are quality basketball players who, and enough critical mass of them who want to play and are willing to play in other places, it seems like that's the real opportunity for Project B. All of these guys are trying to do it in Europe, which, I mean, it seems interesting. The NBA is launching their kind of own thing there. But I think that the real opportunity is somewhere further afield. Athletes who don't want to go as far and fans who have too much of a time lag between when NBA games are happening and when they could watch these games live. So maybe a place like Africa, The NBA has tried to develop in Asia. Those seem like some of the obvious places to go.
- [27:10]
Maverick Carter
Yeah.
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Ben Smith
You are the only person I know who woke up to watch like Latvia in the finals in Jakarta.
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Max Tawny
I did.
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Semaphore Media Editor
In the World cup basketball, yes. In World cup basketball. Didn't quite get to the finals, but got pretty close, I feel like. Did well. Did well.
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Ben Smith
Incredible.
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Semaphore Media Editor
I am one of those fans. But a lot of people are that. And that's kind of what the world FIBA is all about. Is kind of trying to build up something quite similar. So we'll see what happens. But it was really cool to get a little bit of a preview from Maverick Carter and I feel like he did share more details than I've heard him say in other places. So really appreciate our fine booking team for grabbing him.
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Ben Smith
There's something exciting about, about competing leagues, like, you know, because I think I grew up in the world where, you know, in baseball and in football, all of that stuff had happened before I got into it. The AFL and the NFL competing and changing the rules to make it more exciting so they could compete with each other. And then the world of American sports In the late 20th century, you know, early 21st, is these essential monopolies. And it's kind of interesting to that MAV is out there trying to kind of mix it up a bit. I think it's basically good for the
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Semaphore Media Editor
sports, at least it certainly is. And I think that the NBA understands that is part of the disadvantage of its push to kind of globalize. The NBA wants to own those leagues in other places when they do happen. And I'll be very curious to see whether Project B represents a real challenge to the league. I mean, this is actually something we've seen in the WNBA as well, which unrivaled, which is this other league from former mixed signals guest John Skipper, where, you know, it's really rivaled the WNBA in some ways because it's been able to pay well, it's been able to operate alongside as a competitor. It's a different game. They play three on three basketball. But I know a lot of my friends who are WNBA fans do watch unrivaled and it's provided a nice wedge issue for the players as well. So it'll be really interesting to see if the folks who MAV consulted with on and off for Project B are able to kind of pull off whatever they're trying to pull off abroad.
- [29:00]
Ben Smith
Well, that was a very fun conversation, Max.
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Semaphore Media Editor
Yeah, it was. It was super fun to have Mav on. Well, that is it for us this week. Thank you so much for listening to the Mixed Signals podcast from us here at Semaphore.
- [29:15]
Max Tawny
And thank you to those listeners who
- [29:17]
Semaphore Media Editor
were at the convening of Semaphore World Economy and who came up and said that they were fans of the show and whatnot. It always is really fun to see people in person who listen to our show, which is expertly produced by Mandy Fadal. With special thanks to Josh Billenson, Rachel Oppenheim, Anna Pizzino, Daniel Haft, Garrett Wylie, Jules Zern and Tori Kaur, as well as the fantastic Semaphore booking team and everybody involved in kind of making that a super fun conversation. Our engineer is Rick Kwan and our theme music is by Steve Bone. Our public editor is Adam Mendelsohn, who keeps helping us get these fantastic basketball guests. And because people at Semaphore and Adam both know that I am a NBA super fan, I keep getting to have all these fun conversations with people like Mav Carter and Joelle Embiid. It's such a treat for me.
- [30:06]
Ben Smith
You're living the dream, Max. And if you like the show, Please subscribe on YouTube. Please listen to us wherever you get your podcasts. And I do want to add an extra special thanks to the team at Semaphore who put together what's got to be the biggest and most complex thing. I'm not sure maybe any media coverage company's ever done with this. You know, three stages going for five days, including one on which which Max Taney interviewed Maverick Carter.
- [30:28]
Semaphore Media Editor
Yes, that is absolutely true. It was really insane. If you are interested in seeing what it was all about, obviously, I'm sure maybe you came across some of the clips, but we've got a lot more of these interviews online. It should be mentioned that we interviewed a lot more media figures. People such as the CEO of Twitch, Dan Clancy. Ben interviewed Roger lynch, the CEO of Conde Nast. We had a whole bunch of other figures. So feel free to check our old
- [30:53]
Ben Smith
friend Mark Lazarus from Versant. These are all either past or future Mixed Signals guests. In some cases both.
- [30:59]
Semaphore Media Editor
Absolutely. And if you want more, you can always listen to Semaphore's Media Newslet Letter, which is out every Sunday night.