Mixed Signals from Semafor Media – Episode Summary

Episode Title: Pablo Torre on ESPN, investigating LeBron, and becoming the New York Times' first 'creator'
Release Date: August 8, 2025
Podcast Hosts: Max Tani (A), Ben Smith (B)
Guest: Pablo Torre (C), Host of Pablo Torre Finds Out

Overview

This episode dives deep into the rapidly evolving world of sports media through the lens of Pablo Torre's innovative approach to sports journalism. With the recent announcement of Torre’s podcast licensing deal with The New York Times/Athletic, hosts Max Tani and Ben Smith probe Torre's journey from ESPN mainstay to independent creator and now, major media partner. The discussion explores the transformation of investigative sports journalism, the implications of betting partnerships, the creator economy in legacy media, and Pablo's fearless reporting on controversial sports stories.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Changing Nature of Sports Journalism (08:32 – 10:28)

• Reinventing the Format: Torre explains how Pablo Torre Finds Out merges old-school magazine-style investigative journalism with YouTube-native talk and video formats, aiming to make “serious reporting fun.”
  • "What if reporting was fun? What if there was cheese melted on the broccoli I'm serving you?" – Pablo Torre (09:11)
• Audience Approach: The show is crafted for both sports fans and non-fans, aiming for broad cultural resonance similar to what “Moneyball” achieved for baseball.
  • "My show is designed for people who don't really care about sports." – Pablo Torre (12:04)

2. Noteworthy Investigations & “Scoops” (10:28 – 14:54; 14:56 – 18:45)

• Big Stories:
  • The “Belichick-Jordan Hudson scandal,” NBA gambling scandals, and NFLPA upheaval.
  • Deep-dives such as the under-appreciated episode on competitive birdwatching.
• Breakthrough Journalism: Pablo describes the thrill and impact of being able to “dent a news cycle,” noting how his reporting has led to leadership changes at major sports institutions.
• NBA Gambling Investigation: The story of Johnte Porter, group chats uncovered, and links made between Twitter/X sleuthing and real-world federal investigations.
  • "They were taking notes on a criminal conspiracy, to quote The Wire." – Pablo Torre (15:15)
  • Pablo and team uncovered links in real-time overlooked by the FBI, using open-source research and deep internet knowledge.

3. Behind the Scenes: Scale, Operations & Audience (18:45 – 22:44)

• Show Structure:
  • Three episodes per week: Tuesday, Thursday, Friday
  • Hybrid of live, investigative, and “vault”/evergreen episodes
  • Production involves 4 full-time staffers plus freelancers for audio/video
  • Born out of DraftKings network; consciously designed for both audio and YouTube video audiences
  • "We are always on, which means that we are not one of these precious longform... although part of what we aspire to do is contain the ambition of such things." – Pablo Torre (19:31)
• Audience Numbers:
  • YouTube: ~140,000 subscribers
  • Regularly top 5 in Apple Sports Podcasts charts
  • Avoids obsessing over listenership metrics for his own mental health

4. The Business Side: Partnerships, Uncoupling, and the Times Deal (22:44 – 27:24)

• Exiting DraftKings:
  • Left mutually and diplomatically; audience wasn’t primarily sports-betting focused
  • Remained independent of editorial constraints despite gambling money
    • "Thank you for the gambling money... the dream is to have a teat to suckle on that doesn't really mind." – Pablo Torre (23:17)
• Rationale:
  • Aligning with the NYT provided longer-term strategic value and editorial independence
  • "It would have gotten increasingly uncomfortable to investigate sports gambling with a partner that needed to... take its logo off the episode." – Pablo Torre (25:12)
• Economics:
  • NYT deal: seven figures (per reporting), with full freedom in editorial directions, crucially outside any paywall, and Times handles ad sales
  • Pablo is not a Times employee; it’s a licensing model akin to those at Spotify or Vox

5. The “Creator Deal” Era & Media Consolidation (27:24 – 31:48)

• NYT as Creator Platform:
  • Hosts and guests note the Times is now actively doing deals typical of the “creator economy,” challenging traditional journalism models
    • "It's amazing to see Times is in that business." – Max Tani (27:24)
  • Pablo draws comparisons between these deals in sports—with personalities like Dave Portnoy, Clay Travis—and the growing intersection of sports, media, and culture wars

6. The Dilemma of Sports Media “Politics” & the Future of Coverage (29:38 – 31:27)

• Analysis of right-leaning sports media growth and the misconception that major sports media are too “woke”; Pablo posits there’s no real shortage of right-coded outlets, and the real scarcity is tough journalism into powerful institutions
  • "What’s the rarest commodity in sports media? It isn’t right-leaning people complaining about things... the real rare commodity is people doing journalism into powerful entities." – Pablo Torre (30:45)

7. ESPN & the Evolving Journalism Landscape (34:20 – 40:23)

• Torre’s Reflections:
  • Grateful to ESPN for career/financial support but critical of its shift from journalism to pure entertainment, and its conflict as both sports partner and watchdog diminished investigative resources
  • On ESPN’s new business model (NFL now holding equity):
    • "The luxury good that is reporting in journalism has become more and more endangered, if not almost extinct." – Pablo Torre (37:06)
  • Dissects why major investigative/podcast talent (e.g. Bill Simmons, Zach Lowe, Dan LeBatard) left, and why ESPN was content to lose a billion dollars worth of podcast value

8. Choosing the New York Times: Motives & Structure (40:23 – 44:51)

• Multiple offers on the table; Torre selected the NYT for brand/institutional value and audience reach, not just the highest figure
• Crucially, maintains show independence, with editorial freedom and a strong personal brand

9. Future of the Show at the Times (44:51 – 45:57)

• Plans for stories with crossover appeal – serious investigations and “Uncrustable-level” cultural curiosities; intends both “high and low brow” content, enabled by Times’ platform but retaining independence

10. Facing Pushback from Powerful Subjects (46:10 – 54:58)

• Reporting on LeBron & Others:
  • Describes intense fan and PR backlash when probing sensitive topics like LeBron’s absence at Kobe Bryant’s funeral
  • "People weren't going to make the calls... we cared about this with the level of the JFK assassination – what really happened here?” – Pablo Torre (52:09)
• Difference Between Social Media and Journalism Scrutiny:
  • Notes subjects are still unaccustomed to real investigative journalism as compared to social media “dunk tanks.”
  • "There's a real difference in which someone's going to make calls and piece together a story you don't want told." – Pablo Torre (53:20)
  • Investigative journalism is rare in sports now, partly due to lacking incentives and declining institutional support.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the blend of old and new:
  • "I'm selling a version of old media to people on the Internet." – Pablo Torre (08:49)
• On reporting’s thrill:
  • "The high, the thrill you get of denting a news cycle… that's a high and a thrill I continue to chase." – Pablo Torre (11:09)
• On sports journalism’s 'business':
  • "The answer to all your questions is money." – quoting Don Ohlmeyer via Tony Kornheiser (13:28)
• On YouTube/internet culture’s power in investigative reporting:
  • "If you’re not Internet brained, all of this is just crazy making. And we are." – Pablo Torre (18:43)
• On responses to controversial reporting:
  • "The downside of investigative journalism, obviously, is that you end up making people mad." – Pablo Torre (47:01)
• On ESPN’s evolution:
  • "The luxury good that is reporting in journalism has become more and more endangered, if not almost extinct." – Pablo Torre (37:06)
• On the future of creator deals:
  • "For Fox, it’s not surprising… I just think that it’s notable for the New York Times which does journalism... There was always this tension between the stars not wanting to be too much bigger than the Times itself. Clearly the Times lost that battle." – Max Tani (59:33)
• On the future of investigative sports coverage:
  • "If sports matter, then someone should investigate them. ... The people who used to do that, by the way, are either dead or unemployed." – Pablo Torre (54:12)

Key Timestamps

• Opening & context: 00:07 – 06:15
• Torre’s philosophy and the magazine show format: 08:32 – 10:28
• Memorable investigations (NFLPA, NBA gambling): 10:28 – 18:45
• Show staffing & audience: 18:45 – 22:44
• Leaving DraftKings, business rationale: 22:44 – 27:24
• NYT/Athletic deal details: 25:56 – 27:24
• Creator economy shift at NYT: 27:24 – 31:48
• Pushing back on ‘woke’ sports media narrative: 29:38 – 31:27
• Torre on ESPN’s trajectory: 34:20 – 40:23
• Choosing the NYT, other bidders: 40:23 – 44:51
• Show content/ambitions under NYT: 44:51 – 45:57
• Dealing with LeBron PR and backlash: 46:10 – 54:12
• The decline of investigative sports journalism: 54:12 – 54:58
• Wrap-up & analysis of NYT/creator deals: 56:19 – 61:34

Closing Thoughts from Hosts (56:17 – End)

• Hosts reflect on Torre’s intellectual reputation and the wider implications of media consolidation, especially as legacy institutions like The New York Times and Fox absorb more independent creative voices in both sports and politics.
  • "We're just watching consolidation occur in real time. This is what it looks like." – Ben Smith (58:11)
• Discussion on how the Times’ embrace of the creator model signals a profound shift in journalistic business models and editorial culture.

Final Takeaway

Pablo Torre stands at the vanguard of a “third way” in sports media—combining old-school reporting and personality-driven audio/video, maintaining fierce editorial independence, and showing how legacy media are rapidly adapting by co-opting creator-driven models. His reporting has real-world impact, faces genuine pushback from the powerful, and might point the way to the future of both sports—and journalism broadly—in a platform-centric, post-cable world.

For more episodes and insights into the transformation of media, subscribe to Mixed Signals from Semafor Media and follow their newsletter.