Mixed Signals from Semafor Media – Episode Summary

Episode: "Professional optimist Cleo Abram on tech’s bright future"
Podcast: Mixed Signals from Semafor Media
Hosts: Max Tani (B), Ben Smith (A)
Guest: Cleo Abram (C), tech journalist and creator of Huge If True
Date: June 13, 2025

Overview

In this episode, Max Tani and Ben Smith dive into the remarkable rise of Cleo Abram—a self-described optimist and one of the most influential independent tech journalists on YouTube. With close to 6 million subscribers, Cleo’s deeply researched, visually compelling videos tackle complex scientific and technological topics with a uniquely hopeful spin. The discussion explores her journey from Vox to solo success, the changing landscape of science media, and the ethics and business of being both a journalist and a creator.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Cleo Abram’s Origin Story & Career Trajectory

• Leaving Vox for YouTube:

  • Cleo explains her transition from being a Vox producer to launching her own YouTube channel, motivated by a desire to make complex, optimistic science explainers accessible to wide audiences.
  • “There is nothing that affects all of our lives that people can't understand.” [07:35]
  • She credits Vox’s culture for nurturing strong independent explainers and allowing freedom to experiment.

• Why Former Vox Journalists Thrive on YouTube:

  • The collaborative, yet independent, environment at Vox taught skills in clear explanation and high-quality video storytelling.
  • “Vox was this incredible greenhouse... You learn some of those thorny skills of explanation in a way that allows you then to make a really great, rich, visually interesting video.” [09:00]
  • She sees Vox’s DNA in many quality YouTube journalism productions.

2. Building and Growing ‘Huge If True’

• Developing an Optimistic Brand:

  • Cleo felt traditional media was overly pessimistic and wanted to create videos that offered hope about technology’s potential to improve lives.
  • Early days of her show required patience, as both audience and algorithm adjusted to this different, in-depth format.
  • “There’s a certain vulnerability in making something that is yours and that is so mixed in with your personal interest... It really is like, hey, I'm gonna offer you something. Like, do you want it?” [12:53]

• Content Strategy & Platform Choices:

  • Long-form, highly produced videos (monthly cadence) complemented by shorts and in-depth conversations (e.g., interviews with Mark Zuckerberg, Jensen Huang).
  • Decision between formats comes down to how long it takes to explain a topic: “Should it be a long form or a short form? The question is, how long does it take me to explain this thing?” [17:20]

3. Tech, Tools, and the Rise of AI

• Technology’s Impact on Media:
  • Cleo is cautiously optimistic about AI; currently, it’s mostly a brainstorming tool rather than core to her production processes (which require high scientific accuracy).
  • Biggest creative shift is from the rise of YouTube Shorts—explaining complex topics in under 60 seconds, a challenge Cleo enjoys.
  • “You're really busy, you've got a lot going on. Let me see if I can explain...how a Formula One car works in 60 seconds to you.” [15:01]

4. Journalism, Ethics, and the Creator Economy

• Journalist vs. Creator Identity:

  • Cleo embraces both titles: “I call myself a journalist. I'm proud to call myself a journalist. I also call myself a creator, and I'm proud to call myself a creator too.” [18:14]
  • She values journalistic rigor, transparency, and corrections, challenging other “news creators” to articulate their ethics.

• Advertising and Business Ethics:

  • Direct disclosure to viewers is paramount. Sponsors do not control editorial topics, and ads are clearly labeled.
  • “You’re always going to know if something is paid...I wrote this. I believe everything that I am saying right now.” [20:20]

• Unique Business Model:

  • Cleo’s team (four full-time staff) produces at a higher quality but lower frequency than most YouTubers.
  • Video costs mostly stem from team salaries and travel, estimated below $50,000 per video. [23:12]

5. The Future of Independent Media

• Building a New Kind of Media Company:

  • Cleo envisions a branded house (not a house of brands) producing multiple formats under the Huge If True umbrella.
  • She sees a future where independently driven, high-quality shows can rival anything made at legacy media companies.

• Platform Dynamics and Optimist Interviews:

  • YouTube’s growth as a TV platform is a huge opportunity for independent creators.
  • Cleo’s interviews differ by focusing on optimism—digging into what tech leaders want to build, then probing the real challenges they face, not just lobbing “gotcha” questions.
  • “The concept is, I'm going to take you on a journey to understand the world that this person is trying to build… But in the process of doing that, we're going to look down all of the darker paths.” [29:53]

6. What Audiences Are Fascinated By

• Technical Deep Dives and Childhood Curiosity:
  • Topics like the Large Hadron Collider or quantum computing perform exceptionally well.
  • Explanations rooted in childlike wonder—“What is gravity?”—are both entertaining (e.g., zero-gravity flights) and intellectually rich.
  • “Off the top of my head, there are some very serious topics and there are some much lighter ones… the other category I found right now is in explanations of things that seem like questions you had when you were a kid, but actually are the cutting edge of science and technology right now.” [35:55]
  • Applied AI stories (such as protein folding, asteroid detection) are more engaging to her and her audience than general “what is AI?” explainers.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On starting ‘Huge If True’:

  • “Can I make something that I want to watch? And if I can make something that I want to watch, do other people want to watch it, too?” [11:48] — Cleo Abram

• On optimism in journalism:

  • “There is a way to do it in a way that is genuine and also responds to people's genuine interests in a way that doesn't do that by just trying to grip them because they're scared. That impulse is something that has led both in news consumer and in newsmaker to a media ecosystem that is not offering a picture of the world as it really is.” [39:14] — Cleo Abram

• On platforms and the future:

  • “If you could have told me when we launched huge if true… that the deal would be that I would own all of my own work, control my entire creative team, and be publishing on the most watched streaming platform on television… what an incredible future to have.” [34:09] — Cleo Abram

• On YouTube’s growth:

  • “This is an incredibly vibrant, rich platform for people to make a living… It’s created a whole digital and financial ecosystem which is driving the industry.” [24:17] — Josh Spanier (Google)

Important Timestamps

• 07:04 Introduction of Cleo Abram: origin story and transition from Vox to YouTube
• 09:00 The Vox "greenhouse" for explainer journalists
• 11:30 Early days and emotional risks of starting an independent show
• 14:04 Technology’s role in changing production (AI, YouTube Shorts)
• 17:09 Deciding video format and audience respect
• 18:09 Discussing identity: journalist vs creator
• 20:20 Handling business ethics, sponsorship, and advertising
• 22:02 Economics and production cadence in high-quality YouTube journalism
• 27:24 Vision for growth and Huge If True as a branded house
• 29:53 Cleo’s optimistic interview style with tech leaders
• 33:59 The convergence of YouTube and television, and the shifting media landscape
• 35:55 Audience interests: technical deep dives & childlike questions
• 37:18 The evolution of AI explainers toward real-world applications
• 39:14 The impact of negativity bias (“if it bleeds, it leads”) in media and Cleo’s approach

Closing Thoughts

This episode spotlights Cleo Abram’s blend of detailed, optimistic science journalism and innovative creator-business models. She stands as an example of the future of independent, high-quality media, blending journalistic ethics with creator agility. Her approach offers a refreshing counterpoint to the frequent pessimism in mainstream tech coverage and demonstrates that there is growing audience appetite for complex, hopeful stories about the future.

For further reading:

• Check out Huge If True on YouTube
• Visit www.thinkwithgoogle.com for sponsor resources
• Subscribe to Semafor’s Media Newsletter

Summary by [Podcast Summarizer AI] – Keeping You Informed.