Mixed Signals from Semafor Media

Episode: Ryan Lizza on Olivia Nuzzi, RFK Jr, and the economics of modern media
Date: January 9, 2026
Guests: Ryan Lizza (Telos), Hosts Max Tani & Ben Smith

Episode Overview

This episode centers on the media firestorm surrounding Ryan Lizza’s explosive Substack series about his breakup with Olivia Nuzzi—his ex-fiancée and fellow political journalist—her subsequent relationship with RFK Jr., and the intertwined fallout in both media and politics. Max Tani and Ben Smith interrogate Lizza’s motives, the ethics of personal journalism, and what the saga reveals about the state of modern media economics, accountability, and narrative control.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Backstory: Scandal, Substack, and the Media Ecosystem

• Who is Ryan Lizza?

  • Longstanding political reporter, formerly with The New Republic, The New Yorker, Politico, CNN, now running his Substack, Telos.
  • Engaged to journalist Olivia Nuzzi, whose alleged relationship with RFK Jr. while still with Lizza became a public story.
  • After Nuzzi’s book and media tour, Lizza published his own eight-part, 25,000-word account on Substack.
  • The story touches on claims of journalistic misconduct, political maneuvering, and media complicity.

• Why Tell the Story in This Way?

  • Lizza’s initial attempts to correct the record through traditional media and Politico didn’t materialize.
  • He describes his frustration at media outlets running with Nuzzi’s version without, in his view, sufficient scrutiny or fact-checking.

“I realized that the only way to do it…was I had to finally tell it myself.” – Ryan Lizza [07:05]

2. Motive and Method: Fighting Back with Narrative

• Catalyst for Publishing:
  • Lizza’s conversation with Jacob Bernstein at The New York Times—who was, in his words, about to run a “puffy piece” on Nuzzi—galvanized him.
  • He felt mainstream outlets ignored key facts and that correcting the record required full narrative control.

“I said, ‘Jacob, this is just the tip of the iceberg. The rest of the book is false, too. But more importantly, there are just sins of omission that you’re going to be very embarrassed by…’” – Ryan Lizza [06:28]

• On Fighting Fire with Fire:
  • Instead of a simple statement, Lizza opted for personal, journalistic storytelling—matching Nuzzi’s approach, but from his perspective.
  • Describes conflicting impulses: wanting the story to go away versus the duty to correct serious personal and professional accusations.

“The choice…was between letting a book that attacked me with false and defamatory claims go unresponded to…or respond in full, finally, to a series of extremely serious accusations that if you Google my name, will live with me, you know, for the rest of my life.” – Ryan Lizza [15:07]

3. Media, Ethics, and Institutional Accountability

• Why Not Publish Earlier?
  • Lizza points to legal entanglements, institutional reluctance (especially at Politico), and personal risk.
  • Attributes Politico’s disinterest to their post-2016 editorial calculus: “sucking up to the Trump administration” and wishing to avoid a messy internal story.

“They missed one of the great scoops of the moment…that’s on Politico.” – Ryan Lizza [09:42]

• Failed Media Due Diligence:
  • Criticizes Simon & Schuster, The New York Times, and Vanity Fair for not investigating further after he alerted them to issues with Nuzzi’s narrative.
  • Describes sending memos to editors outlining key questions and evidence.

4. Personal Fallout and Narrative Control

• Impact on Lizza’s Life and Work:
  • Legal costs ($127,000), personal strain, polarized reactions from friends and loved ones.
  • Substack revenue offset some—but not all—of the costs and reputational damage.

“Olivia left me with a $127,000 legal bill…There’s nothing that can compensate me for the damage that her recklessness did.” – Ryan Lizza [22:18]

• Substack and the Economics of Media:
  • Notes the contrast with legacy publishing: “There is still that sense that somehow writing something in a book or a magazine is different than doing it on Substack or a podcast. And that is not the world that we live in anymore.” [23:45]
  • Finds the attention overwhelming and wonders how to pivot back to traditional reporting.

5. The ‘Real Story’—RFK Jr., Media Corrections, and Journalistic Boundaries

• Lizza’s Argument: Not a Sex Scandal, a Journalism Scandal
  • Repeatedly insists the core issues are about conflict of interest, Nuzzi’s alleged role in campaign operations, and RFK Jr.’s conduct—NOT merely personal betrayal.
  • Details accusations, including that RFK Jr. encouraged Nuzzi to file a false restraining order to shield him pre-election.
  • Raises (unproven) claims about Kennedy’s behavior—drug use, risk to campaign, potential for blackmail.

“This was not a sex scandal, this was a journalism scandal. There were really important things I needed to say about my ex…The person who has just been…floating above it all is this very influential, important cabinet secretary who has done some things that I think deserve more scrutiny.” – Ryan Lizza [28:37]

• Sources and Corroboration
  • Cites two sources close to Nuzzi as verification for some of the political manipulation allegations.

6. Public & Professional Reaction

• Mixed Reactions:

  • Lizza describes his circle dividing into “hawks” urging him to tell his story, and others pleading for restraint.
  • Acknowledges the story’s personal toll: “Honestly… my partner [finds it] extremely difficult…Some very close friends told me not to do it.” [35:44]

• Host Reflection:

  • Ben Smith: “If, like he alleged, you know, she was kind of narcing on sources, essentially, to a politician, like, that’s disturbing, and Kennedy is just an unbelievable interesting figure…” [49:55]
  • Ongoing debate: Was it really about journalism, or irretrievably personal? Can these boundaries even be disentangled?

7. Media Landscape: New Media vs. Old Media

• New Media Triumphs?
  • Lizza frames his Substack series as having more impact than Nuzzi’s traditionally published book, thanks to its immediacy and authenticity.
  • Sees the saga reflecting a broader shift: storytelling, reputation, and truth-telling now as much about individual creators as legacy brands.

“There was a sort of like asymmetric warfare going on, frankly, between this rinky dink substack and this, you know, this massive consortium of media companies…And the truth, in my view, won out.” – Ryan Lizza [45:10]

Notable Quotes and Moments

• On letting the book stand vs. fighting back:

  “I don’t know if you’ve ever been accused of blackmail…I don’t know if you’ve ever falsely been accused of threatening violence against your fiance…when you’re accused of something like that, you tend to think you should correct the record…” – Ryan Lizza [14:46]

• On embracing fate:

  “It’s amor fati — a stoic expression about, you know, no matter what happens to you, embrace it…you have to find a way to embrace it.” – Ryan Lizza [17:01]

• On the inherent messiness of personal journalism:

  “You can’t really cleanly disentangle these things. There’s no way to. These are human beings. There's not some sort of, like, here are journalism ethics, and here are how human beings behave, and we’re going to totally separate them.” – Ben Smith [51:18]

• On what he’s learned about media:

  “With our fragmented landscape and declining trust in media, you can still find an audience if you tell the truth.” – Ryan Lizza [45:20]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [04:09] – Lizza explains the moment he decided to publish his account on Substack.
• [07:20] – Lizza’s rationale for personal, narrative-style response.
• [09:54] – Politico’s reluctance and Lizza’s exit from legacy media.
• [14:29] – Why not stay silent? The need to confront public accusations.
• [17:01] – Amor fati: embracing hard experiences.
• [22:18] – Substack economics and legal fallout.
• [28:13] – Lizza’s plan to refocus the story on RFK Jr. and the media’s failings.
• [31:15] – Allegations that RFK Jr. orchestrated the legal dispute.
• [35:44] – Impact on Lizza’s personal relationships and professional standing.
• [45:10] – Reflection: asymmetric media battles—old vs. new.

Tone and Language

The episode is candid, self-reflective, and at times combative—laced with media in-jokes and admissions of personal turmoil. Lizza is at once direct, defensive, and occasionally darkly funny, while the hosts alternate between skeptical prodding and professional camaraderie.

Conclusion: What Does It All Mean?

• The episode lays bare the tangled intersection of personal and institutional storytelling, the risks and power of direct audience engagement, and the ways the economic incentives of platforms like Substack are reshaping reputational wars.
• Lizza casts his saga as an object lesson in media responsibility—and in the capacity of individual publishing to counter institutional inertia, misinformation, or omission.
• The hosts ultimately see this as both a salacious media drama and a window onto the blurred lines between human failing, institutional ethics, and the new media economy.

For listeners and those new to the story, this episode reveals how modern media scandals unfold—and how the lines between personal truth-seeking and professional journalism are more porous, and combustible, than ever.