Podcast Summary: Trump’s war on public media, with PBS CEO Paula Kerger

Mixed Signals from Semafor Media
Hosts: Max Tani (Media Reporter) & Ben Smith (Editor-in-Chief)
Guest: Paula Kerger (PBS CEO)
Release Date: November 28, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode focuses on the recent and dramatic reduction of federal funding for public media in the United States, specifically PBS and NPR, driven by the Trump administration and allied Republicans. Max Tani and Ben Smith examine the stakes of this funding crisis, challenge each other’s views on public media, and interview PBS CEO Paula Kerger about PBS’s role, the political fight over funding, and the future of public broadcasting in a rapidly changing media environment.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Political Attack on Public Media Funding

[00:32] – [03:16]:

• Max Tani highlights the nostalgia and personal connection many Americans have with PBS, contrasting with Ben's distant relationship due to strict parental TV rules.
• Main Points:
  • The Trump administration and some Republicans have pushed to eliminate federal funding for the Corporation for Public Broadcasting (CPB), which supports PBS and NPR.
  • This represents a major shift for an institution traditionally viewed as bipartisan, "sleepy," and non-controversial.
• Ben Smith's skepticism: Questions the need for government-funded media in the age of prolific digital options.

2. The Year of Crisis at PBS

[03:16] – [06:00]:

• Paula Kerger provides a detailed timeline of the attacks and the impacts:
  • Jan: Received a letter from FCC Chair Brendan Carr questioning PBS’s advertising, threatening defunding.
  • Formal inquiry: Congress demanded 3 years’ worth of documents.
  • MTG's hearing: Marjorie Taylor Greene summoned Kerger to defend public media as “Un-American Airwaves.”
  • Removal of Democratic CPB board members.
  • Executive Order: Banned federal funds for public broadcasters, abruptly halting children’s programming grants.
  • House and Senate votes: Both failed at the last minute; key rural stations deeply threatened.
• Kerger’s Summary: “For some of our stations, particularly in small rural communities, it's as much as half of their funding. And for them it's existential.” (Paula Kerger, 05:11)

3. Is this a New Kind of Republican Opposition?

[06:00] – [07:37]:

• Kerger reflects on previous bipartisan support—including conservatives like Barry Goldwater and Bill Buckley.
• What’s changed:
  • Unlike prior cycles, this wave of opposition is more unified and “determined to stay together and to follow the lead of the White House.”
  • Even rural-serving politicians didn’t break ranks, despite their districts’ dependence.

4. The Funding Vote Fallout and Potential for Reversal

[07:37] – [09:50]:

• Kerger notes surprise in Congress: Some legislators who voted for defunding seem shocked when told their local stations may disappear.
• Educational role: Emphasizing to politicians the impact of their decisions on rural, small-town America.
• Emergency alert system: PBS is crucial for delivering both individual and first responder alerts.

5. Is PBS Hooked on Outdated Technology?

[09:50] – [11:32]:

• Ben Smith's challenge: “Are you arguing that 50 years from now super important that we have over the air broadcasts? It just feels like a dying technology.” (Ben Smith, 09:50)
• Kerger responds: Significant numbers still rely on over-the-air, due to economic or geographic reasons.
  • Broadcast remains essential infrastructure for emergencies, especially when digital fails.

6. The Unique Value of PBS Content

[11:32] – [13:53]:

• Kerger: “It's not just the technology, it's the content we produce. Right... If you are deeply focused on what's happening in kids media right now, you should be concerned.” (Paula Kerger, 11:40)
• Market is moving away from high-quality kids’ content; commercial incentives are lacking.
  • She emphasizes PBS’s mission-driven programming (e.g., Daniel Tiger’s Neighborhood, inspired by Fred Rogers).
  • PBS is judged by public value, not shareholder returns.

7. The “Ronald Grump” / Trump Dynamic

[16:02] – [17:31]:

• Ben Smith raises the possibility that Trump holds a personal grudge due to long-running Sesame Street parodies (“Ronald Grump”).
  • Kerger shrugs: She doubts this is a real factor—if anything, “I think he kind of enjoyed being a character on Sesame Street.”
• The larger point: PBS is a rare force for science and history programming—e.g., Ken Burns’ decade-long American Revolution documentary.

8. Political Impact of Ken Burns and Public Media Advocates

[17:31] – [20:23]:

• Ken Burns’s advocacy for public media has drawn bipartisan attention, including at Capitol Hill screenings attended by both supporters and opponents.
• Despite public and donor support, many politicians fail to connect funding decisions with disappearing local programming.
• Kerger: Legislators must be reminded their constituents truly value PBS.

9. Editorial Balance and Claims of Bias

[20:23] – [23:08]:

• Ben Smith: Should PBS air more conservative programming?
• Kerger: No explicit ideological playbook—but a diversity of viewpoints is crucial: “I'm interested in hearing different perspectives... How are we going to move forward as a country if we don't try to understand each other?”
• News is only about 10% of PBS output, most is kids, science, and history.

10. Addressing Accusations of Political Pandering

[21:32] – [23:08]:

• Controversy over airing a documentary, The Last 500 Meters, which right-wing figures claim PBS shelved for years over “pro-military” bias.
  • Kerger: “No, it's not true... it just got shelved and, to be honest, it got forgotten.”
  • PBS did edit out overly graphic scenes for broadcast.

11. Can Public Media Survive in a Divided Society?

[23:08] – [26:13]:

• Tani asks if U.S. public media, like the BBC, is sustainable in times of intense polarization.
• Kerger argues: Most Americans are in the middle and value trustworthy information. Even after government funding is cut, direct public support remains strong.
  • “People don't give money to organizations they don't trust.” (Kerger, 25:25)

12. Broader Trends: Global Populism and Public Media

[26:13] – [26:51]:

• Ben asks if the attack on PBS mirrors global populist trends (cites BBC, Poland).
• Kerger: Yes—these are not U.S.-specific threats; all public media faces similar challenges.

13. Would PBS Merge or Partner for Survival?

[26:51] – [29:00]:

• Ben: Would you ever merge with NPR or BBC?
• Kerger: Structural differences prevent a full merger; partnerships (e.g., streaming deals with Amazon, YouTube TV, BBC coproductions) are ongoing and crucial for localism and reach.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "For them it's existential." (Paula Kerger on rural stations facing funding cuts, 05:11)
• "I actually did not believe that we would be defunded even in this round...I know how important those stations are." (Paula Kerger, 06:52)
• "I was shocked at the number of people that just seem so surprised that this was going to put so many stations at risk." (Paula Kerger, 09:07)
• "Are you arguing that 50 years from now super important that we have over the air broadcasts...?" (Ben Smith, 09:50)
• "If you are deeply focused on what's happening in kids media right now, you should be concerned." (Paula Kerger, 11:41)
• "No one else is doing this." (Kerger on PBS's early-childhood educational programming, 13:21)
• "We're just not in the same business. Ultimately, my success is not going to be judged by how much I'm returning to a shareholder. Our work is judged based on how we are meeting the needs of the public." (Paula Kerger, 12:43)
• "You gotta maintain the thing because of like emergency broadcasting through your television to people who have bunny ears. I mean, just get them all starlinks, they'll be fine." (Ben Smith, skepticism about PBS's broadcast role, 30:21)
• "There really is a need for a kind of media that isn't necessarily 100% driven by profit, that is trying to put out good, quality stuff for the public, at least in theory." (Max Tani, 32:47)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• PBS funding timeline & attacks: [03:16] – [06:00]
• Kerger on changing political dynamic: [06:00] – [07:37]
• Congressional fallout & local impacts: [07:37] – [09:50]
• The "Over-the-Air" debate: [09:50] – [11:32]
• Kids content crisis & PBS mission: [11:32] – [13:53]
• Sesame Street vs Trump – "Ronald Grump": [16:02] – [17:31]
• Ken Burns' advocacy: [17:31] – [19:24]
• Editorial balance & accusations of bias: [20:23] – [23:08]
• Documentary controversy & programming process: [21:32] – [23:08]
• Divisiveness & future of public media: [23:08] – [26:13]
• Mergers, partnerships, and the scrappy future: [26:51] – [29:00]

Tone & Language

The episode is engaging and direct, with moments of both skepticism and deep concern. Max Tani often brings personal warmth and nostalgia, while Ben Smith presses with pragmatic and sometimes cynical questions. Kerger is measured, steadfast, and passionate about public service broadcasting.

For Listeners

If you’re curious about why PBS and NPR have been in the political crosshairs, how decisions in Washington could silence the TV and radio stations in small towns nationwide, and whether public media still has a place in the American future, this episode provides candid answers, institutional memory, and a glimpse into the frontline battles being fought in Washington and beyond.

Essential takeaway:
Even in an era of hyper-abundant digital content, public media’s role as a source of child education, trustworthy local information, and emergency communication remains deeply valued in many communities—but its future is far from secure.