Podcast Summary: Mixed Signals from Semafor Media

Episode: Undersecretary Sarah Rogers on free speech, Europe’s tech crackdown, and the internet she misses
Date: January 16, 2026
Host(s): Max Tawney, Ben Smith
Guest: Sarah Rogers, Under Secretary for Public Diplomacy, U.S. State Department

Overview

This episode centers on a candid and wide-ranging conversation with Sarah Rogers, Under Secretary for Public Diplomacy at the Biden administration’s State Department. Hosts Max Tawney and Ben Smith probe Rogers on her advocacy for free speech—particularly her efforts to challenge European tech regulations—as well as her internet upbringing, views on speech regulation, and the global politics of open information platforms. The discussion touches on the philosophical and practical differences between U.S. and European attitudes toward online expression, the evolution of internet culture, and controversies embroiling both American and European policy circles.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Role of the Undersecretary for Public Diplomacy

• What the position involves:
  Rogers oversees the State Department’s global media affairs, educational and cultural exchange programs, and all government engagement with the digital information environment—including online disinformation and ‘censorship’ issues.

  “Public diplomacy... is the relationship between the American government and the foreign public... all of the information environment engagement... falls under me.” — Sarah Rogers, 03:34

2. Advocating Free Speech Abroad

• Rogers’ focus in Europe:
  She has made headlines for criticizing EU and UK social media regulations, arguing that Europe’s approach to online speech is overly restrictive and contrary to liberal democratic values.
  Rogers’ background as a litigator—particularly having taken a First Amendment case (NRA v. Vullo) to the Supreme Court—shapes her hardline stance.
• Why focus on Europe, not Gulf states?:
  She argues that Europe’s regulatory “gravity” impacts American companies and shared values, and that, unlike in the Gulf, the trajectory in Europe is toward less rather than more liberalization:

  “EU has significant kind of regulatory gravity and Britain is within its regulatory gravity...these laws affect literally the water you drink.” — Sarah Rogers, 16:51

3. The Internet She Misses: Anonymity and Creative Chaos

• Old Internet nostalgia:
  Rogers discusses her formative internet experiences—law school forums, Gawker—as an era of anonymity and unfettered creativity, now replaced by sanitized, commercialized, and hyper-regulated platforms.

  “I grew up on the Internet at a time when the Internet was a place you would go to be free... That chaotic aspect of the Internet... was the source of a lot of its generative power.” — Sarah Rogers, 06:57

• Shift in online culture:
  She traces the progression from Gawker’s snark to today’s monoculture and the professionalization (“gentrification”) of the web, observing the shift from mischievous anonymity to risk-averse, sanitized environments.

4. Controversies Abroad: Free Speech and Political Leanings

• Accusations of pushing for far-right content:
  Ben presses Rogers on whether her free speech advocacy essentially amounts to supporting the European far right—AfD, Nigel Farage, etc.—since such parties are often those censored under new regulations.
• Pro-Palestinian speech:
  Rogers asserts she has spoken out for free expression even in pro-Palestinian contexts, arguing for consistent standards:

  “Should it be legal to say in most contexts, yes... I explained the Brandenburg incitement standard and all of that.” — Sarah Rogers, 21:01

5. Carrying Water for Big Tech?

• Allegations she’s representing American tech interests:
  She denies this, citing her history of suing Big Tech, and says her alliance with platforms like X or Meta is only incidental to the defense of free expression.

  “I started my free speech activist career as a foe of big tech... The people who want to deflect this and just say you’re a big tech shill, it’s because they’re uncomfortable.” — Sarah Rogers, 24:12

6. Regulatory and Legal Nuance: DSA, Transparency, Viewpoint Bias

• Concerns over European regulation:
  Rogers criticizes mechanisms in laws like the Digital Services Act (DSA) which, she argues, create asymmetric access to data for NGOs and risk viewpoint discrimination.

  “If the government’s picking leftists to do it, then it is... an asymmetric viewpoint skewed regulation...” — Sarah Rogers, 26:05

7. UK’s Potential X Ban over Grok AI Images

• Administration’s position:
  Rogers distinguishes between the need to regulate explicit content (especially involving children) and outright banning a platform. She suggests targeted criminalization is preferable to broad censorship.

  “There are many differences of opinion...on how you enforce that [obligation] and whose responsibility it is.” — Sarah Rogers, 32:05

8. Incidents in the U.S.: Jimmy Kimmel, FCC, and Free Speech Consistency

• On FCC pressure and hypocrisy charges:
  Rogers contends the U.S. does experience “censorious impulses” (e.g., Jimmy Kimmel, Red Scare, “wokeness”), but the First Amendment endures as a bulwark.

  “That’s the whole point. That’s why I’m grateful that we have the laws that we do.” — Sarah Rogers, 33:48

• On State Department pulling visas for pro-Palestinian speech:
  She stresses the difference between First Amendment rights for citizens and the government’s discretion over visas.

9. Elon Musk, Extreme Speech, and Platform Content

• Defending platforms, not specific content:
  Rogers is challenged about defending X when Elon Musk amplifies white solidarity rhetoric.

  “I’m not carrying water for that specific sentiment. I think, though, that none of what you’ve quoted comes close to imminent incitement to lawless action.” — Sarah Rogers, 41:04

10. AI, LLMs, and the Next Free Speech Front

• How AI fits into the picture:
  Rogers says the administration is pro-innovation and wary of heavy-handed “safetiest” regulation. She argues that tight content restrictions on AI make them less useful, and free societies should lead on AI to set the right norms.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Internet Nostalgia & Anonymity

“That chaotic aspect of the Internet, I think, was the source of a lot of its generative power and part of its charm for the posters who grew up in that era, of which I’m clearly one.” — Sarah Rogers, 06:57

Gawker as Cultural Petri Dish

“The Gawker voice was this kid who had moved to New York to be Oscar Wilde or Dorothy Parker, but was a little insecure about it... and so there was this very catty, nitpicky, almost like surveillance culture...” — Sarah Rogers, 10:05

On Shifting Speech Norms

“My viewpoint became more right wing as my young York professional milieu became more intersectionally social justice Y and I found that alienating.” — Sarah Rogers, 15:06

Europe vs. the Gulf: Why Does the U.S. Pressure Allies?

“I think there’s more regulatory contagion from markets like the EU than from markets like Saudi Arabia.” — Sarah Rogers, 16:51

On Being Labeled a Big Tech Shill

“It’s humorous to me because I started my free speech activist career as a foe of big tech.” — Sarah Rogers, 24:12

Censorship and Viewpoint Bias in Transparency

“If the government’s picking leftists to do it, then it is... an asymmetric viewpoint skewed regulation that basically says you have to give communists access to all your user data.” — Sarah Rogers, 26:05

Balancing Free Speech with Harmful Content

“I think with adults it’s a bit more complicated because you have this whole tradition of political cartooning and a lot of the stuff that Grok is creating is distasteful, but wouldn’t necessarily be violative of the First Amendment.” — Sarah Rogers, 32:05

On Today’s Social Media

“There’s no moment in history when I would have surveyed the information landscape and thought well now this is perfect... I just don’t think that content based or viewpoint based censorship at the behest of the government is one of those improvements.” — Sarah Rogers, 42:20

Important Timestamps

• Role of Undersecretary Explained – 03:34
• Perspective on old vs. new Internet culture – 06:57
• Gawker and media cultural shifts – 10:05
• Europe’s regulatory “gravity” and why the U.S. cares – 16:51
• Navigating big tech shill accusations – 24:12
• Discussions on transparency and DSA bias – 26:05
• UK-X-Grok controversy & platform bans – 32:05
• On U.S. free speech controversies (Kimmel, Carr, visas) – 33:48 – 36:13
• Elon Musk and overt white solidarity speech on X – 38:47
• Reflections on social media’s current state and future – 42:20
• Approach to AI and free expression – 44:03

Episode Tone and Flow

The exchange is candid, often combative but insightful, with Rogers defending her sometimes polarizing positions while engaging in nuanced arguments about legal standards, the evolution of online culture, and transatlantic policy differences. The hosts frequently press on perceived contradictions between U.S. and European approaches, as well as inconsistencies within American policy, producing several memorable retorts from Rogers and prompting her to clarify her positions on multiple fronts.

Closing Thoughts

The episode provides a rich tour of the current clash of ideologies over internet regulation between the U.S. (with its near-absolute fidelity to free expression) and European (and global) allies trending towards tighter controls. Through Rogers’s personal history, legal background, and regulatory advocacy, listeners are given a deep dive into the philosophical, cultural, and policy dilemmas shaping the media landscape today.