How I Decentered Men and Learned to Center Myself

Wed Mar 19 2025

Natasha Rothwell plays characters who are constantly trying to improve and to better understand their desires. This season on “The White Lotus,” Rothwell, an Emmy-nominated actress, is back playing Belinda, a striving spa manager with dreams of becoming her own boss. Ambitions like these are relatable to Rothwell, who created and starred in her own show, “How to Die Alone.” But as she and her characters have learned, going after what you want often means changing your priorities and steering away from certain types of people. Today on the show, Rothwell reads Jasmine Browley’s Modern Love essay, “I Decentered Men. Decentering Desire for Men Is Harder,” about the challenges and joys of putting your own needs first. And Rothwell tells Anna Martin how vision boarding has helped her center herself. Here’s how to submit a Modern Love essay to The New York Times. Here’s how to submit a Tiny Love Story.

Summary

Modern Love: How I Decentered Men and Learned to Center Myself

Host: Anna Martin
Guest: Natasha Rothwell, Emmy-nominated actor and writer
Release Date: March 19, 2025

1. Introduction

In this episode of Modern Love, Anna Martin engages in a profound conversation with Natasha Rothwell, renowned for her role as Belinda in HBO’s The White Lotus and her own creation, How to Die Alone on Hulu. The discussion delves into Natasha’s journey of self-discovery, focusing on her efforts to decenter men in her life and prioritize her own needs and desires.

2. Guest Introduction: Natasha Rothwell

Anna Martin introduces Natasha Rothwell, highlighting her evolution from striving to become her own boss in Hawaii to exploring self-love during a work exchange in Thailand, as depicted in The White Lotus Season Three. This backdrop sets the stage for Natasha’s insights on manifesting personal goals and overcoming fears to achieve them.

3. Vision Boarding and Self-Centering

Timestamp: [04:30]

Anna Martin:
“Natasha, I want to start by asking you about something that you've talked really openly about and seem to be a huge fan of, and that is Vision Boarding. Am I correct in saying you're a fan of that?”

Natasha Rothwell:
“I think for someone like me that I’m busy a lot and I feel like at the end of the year it's an opportunity to sort of take time and think about what I'm wanting from the year ahead.”
[04:58]

Natasha shares her appreciation for vision boarding as a tool to articulate and pursue her aspirations, reflecting on how visualizing her goals has materially impacted her career, such as seeing her name listed first in a call sheet, symbolizing her leadership and success.

4. Reading of the Essay: "Decentered Men: Decentering Desire for Men Is Harder" by Jasmine Browley

Timestamp: [11:08]

Natasha reads Jasmine Browley’s essay, which narrates the struggle of prioritizing oneself over societal and internalized expectations to center men in one’s life. The essay recounts Browley’s journey from a self-sufficient woman to contemplating partnership, illustrating the tension between independence and the desire for romantic connection.

5. Discussion on the Essay

Timestamp: [21:57]

Anna Martin:
“Natasha, tell me your immediate reactions to this essay. What does it bring up for you?”

Natasha Rothwell:
“I'm so angry at Roy. I still thank you. Like my God, the number of times I've had Roys in my life where they have fumbled the—where I'm like do you know who I am? And not even career-wise but like just as a human. Do you know what I mean?”
[22:04]

The conversation revolves around the concept of "Roys" – men who unintentionally derail women’s journeys toward self-centering by imposing their own agendas or expectations. Natasha expresses frustration with these interactions, emphasizing the importance of maintaining personal boundaries and prioritizing self-worth over external validation.

Timestamp: [25:00]

Natasha Rothwell:
“I think that the bait is particularly appetizing for those of us, yourself included, who are like boss ass bitches, who are like in this alpha mode, running their lives, running businesses, you know? Cause it's this, like, are you okay? Is the subtext. And how often do we have someone check in on us because people think we have it, you know, handled.”
[25:00]

Natasha discusses the subtle ways societal expectations can lure high-achieving women into relationships that may not align with their personal goals, underscoring the challenge of balancing professional success with personal life without compromising self-centeredness.

6. Personal Anecdotes and Insights

Timestamp: [23:17]

Anna Martin:
“Can you share maybe an example from your own life where, as you put it, like a Roy fumbled it and how did you handle it and how did you sort of pick yourself up and move forward after that hope disappeared?”

Natasha Rothwell:
“I think most Roys can slip in when I think my life can be rather chaotic and when I forget to pour into myself and a Roy's like, I got a pitcher of water. That's like an easier lift than pouring into myself, right? Being like, oh, I'll drink from this.”
[25:05]

Natasha recounts personal experiences where relationships with "Roys" led her to momentarily lose focus on self-care and self-prioritization. She illustrates how recognizing these patterns allows her to reinforce her commitment to self-love and independence.

Timestamp: [26:12]

Interviewer:
“What expectations did you have of love and how were they formed?”

Natasha Rothwell:
“I had immense expectations about love. And I think part of it, my parents celebrated 46 years being married... Rom coms and When Harry Met Sally and, you know, all of these cinematic depictions that love was the cure.”
[26:49]

Reflecting on her upbringing and the influence of media, Natasha explains how early exposure to idealized notions of love shaped her expectations, leading to behaviors aimed at seeking validation through romantic relationships.

7. Conclusion: Centering Self and Relationships

Timestamp: [32:32]

Natasha Rothwell:
“And I still worry that, you know, the panic is real about just, like, I don't want to meet someone and give up this independent version of myself that I found.”
[32:32]

In wrapping up, Natasha emphasizes the ongoing journey of balancing self-centeredness with the natural desire for companionship. She advocates for treating oneself with the same care and intentionality that one would extend to a romantic partner, reinforcing the episode’s central theme of self-prioritization.

Timestamp: [33:05]

Natasha Rothwell:
“Fuck a Roy. Fuck a Roy all the way.”
[32:40]

Natasha concludes with a powerful affirmation of her commitment to self-love and independence, symbolizing her rejection of relationships that compromise her personal growth and self-worth.

Notable Quotes

Natasha Rothwell: “Putting yourself first is not being selfish. Yes, it is. If it hurts somebody, you got to put your needs aside.”
[02:21]
Natasha Rothwell: “I became sort of the main character of my life.”
[08:59]
Natasha Rothwell: “We want the respect and the recognition of our peers.”
[07:16]
Natasha Rothwell: “I was a vegetarian for like 12 years, but there was a moment where I ate meat and it was because I didn't have the courage to tell my best friend at the time.”
[07:05-08:14]

Final Thoughts

This episode of Modern Love offers a candid exploration of the challenges and triumphs associated with prioritizing oneself in a world that often equates self-worth with romantic validation. Through Natasha Rothwell’s engaging narrative and insightful reflections, listeners are encouraged to cultivate self-love, recognize and set boundaries against unfulfilling relationships, and embrace their journey as the central focus of their lives.

Produced by: Emily Lang
Edited by: Gianna Palmer
Executive Producer: Jen Poyant
Music: Dan Powell, Alicia Be Itup, and others

To explore more stories about love in its myriad forms, subscribe to Modern Love on nytimes.com/podcasts, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.