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Modern Love
I Got Addicted to Love and Came Out the Other Side
00:34:42
If you know one thing about the country musician Orville Peck, it’s probably that he wears a mask. Peck has long kept himself shrouded in mystery, shielding his face from the public and revealing few details about his past. His music, however, is full of emotional honesty and vulnerability — he told the Modern Love podcast that most of his lyrics are about his life — and his songs are imbued with a deep sense of longing. In this episode, Peck talks about why country music uniquely captures our complicated feelings about love, and why love and pain are so often intertwined. He reads a Modern Love essay, “Strung Out on Love and Checked In for Treatment” by Rachel Yoder, about love addiction, and discusses what it takes to pull yourself from its distressing grip. Here’s how to submit a Modern Love essay to The New York Times Here’s how to submit a Tiny Love Story
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Transcript75 lines
- [00:03]
Anna Martin
Love now and did you fall in love last fella? I love her Love was stronger than anything else. For the love of love and I love you more than anything you're still love love. From the New York Times, I'm Anna Martin. This is Modern Love. Every week we bring you stories about love, lust, longing, all the messiness of human relationships. This week I'm talking to the country singer Orville Peck. Orville is kind of an enigma. He grew up in South Africa. He uses a stage name and if you've seen pictures of him, you know his signature look is a cowboy hat and a mask. He doesn't show his face in public. But that's changing next week because Orville is making his Broadway debut in Cabaret. He's replacing Adam Lambert in the role of MC and he'll do it without the mask. I wanted to talk to him because even though his vibe and the mask are so mysterious, his music is kind of the opposite. He doesn't hide his emotions. Orville's known for writing these haunting, lonely ballads and he told me a lot of them are about his real life.
- [01:25]
Orville Peck
It ain't the letting go more about the things that you take with uh huh. I can feel it getting closer with every kiss.
- [01:44]
Anna Martin
There's so much yearning in Orville's songs and yet they're still so romantic. He blends these feelings of both love and pain in a way that just feels true.
- [01:55]
Orville Peck
Don't want to wash you away I swear there's good things that are coming your way and I can't be the one left here dragging you down, letting me drown.
- [02:17]
Anna Martin
Today Orville and I talk about why love can sometimes feel so painful. He reads a Modern love essay about love addiction and what it took for the author to realize what she thought was love was actually hurting her. And Orville tells us about his own moment of realizing the same thing. Orville Peck, welcome to Modern Love.
- [02:47]
Orville Peck
Thank you. Thank you for having me.
- [02:48]
Anna Martin
Thank you for taking the time. I'm going to start with a mask question, which I feel like kind of everyone does in interviews with you. But I know you've actually made a big decision about your mask. You're not going to wear it on stage for your role as MC in Cabaret. And I want to know, like, how does that feel, the vulnerability of the public, the audience actually seeing your face?
- [03:12]
Orville Peck
I'm terrified. Really? Really? Of course, I mean, like, it's so silly, but you know, I've, it's making me realize because in a lot of ways I forget, I even forget I'M wearing it right now. Like, I don't. I'm so not conscious of it any longer. You know, it's like me putting on like eyeliner or whatever, you know, like, can I swear on this?
- [03:30]
Anna Martin
Yes, you can.
- [03:31]
Orville Peck
I cuss a lot. So it's like, for me, I don't even think about it anymore. But now suddenly I'm thinking about it. I'm in two minds about it. On one hand, I'm. I'm. I'm really nervous because I just haven't performed without it in a long time.
- [03:43]
Anna Martin
How long have you been wearing it as a performer?
- [03:45]
Orville Peck
Almost 10 years.
- [03:46]
Anna Martin
Woof. Okay.
- [03:47]
Orville Peck
Yeah, it's real smelly under here. Just kidding. But no. So. But on the other hand, I'm also. Like I said, I'm playing a character in this show, so it almost feels like I'm not showing myself still.
- [04:00]
Anna Martin
Hmm. I mean, I wanna talk also about your music a little bit because that's an area where you do show a lot of yourself. You are a country singer and so much of your music is. Exists in this kind of mix of romance and longing, but also, quite frankly, a lot of pain. These are themes that you return to very often in your songs. And I wonder, like, do you think there's something specific about country music that allows you to express this mix of feelings altogether?
- [04:33]
Orville Peck
Oh, my God, absolutely.
- [04:34]
Anna Martin
Yeah.
- [04:35]
Orville Peck
I think it's what drew me to country music, honestly. I mean, I think like, one of my first loves of country was Patsy Cline. I feel like every song of hers was about yearning. I mean, walking after midnight that's like. To me, that's like the gay experience. Like, you know, it's like walking alone at night Wishing someone could love you.
- [04:53]
Anna Martin
Who won't love you after midnight out.
- [04:57]
Orville Peck
In the moonlight Just like we used to do I'm always walking after midnight Searching for you that is country music in a nutshell to me. I mean, old country, specifically new country. I don't know what they're singing about in new country, like trucks and whatever the fuck they're singing about. But old country, for sure, it's about yearning, unrequited love, loss, disappointment, inadequacy. I mean, there are themes that are very, I mean, I think relatable to a lot of people and specifically a lot of othered people, people that are outsiders.
- [05:45]
Anna Martin
It strikes me that, like, hearing this lonely, longing, yearning music. Patsy Cline's yours. It feels good though. It's like these. These painful emotions as a listener. It feels. It feels good to hear them.
- [05:59]
Orville Peck
Yeah, well, we have that crazy human condition where, like, years ago, someone, like, tweeted or something, there was something going around where it was like, you know when you're like, 16 and you're like, rewinding the song to the heartbreaking part because you didn't. You didn't cry hard enough. Y. Like, that is so relatable to me. Like, and I think you feel release, right? Like, that's the beautiful thing about art is, like, it does that, right? It releases an emotion that we're yearning for. It's all yearning, you know?
- [06:28]
Anna Martin
God, I will tell you when it. I mean, that was me. That was me on YouTube with Bon Iver. Skinny Love. It was Skinny Love. Like, every other person at that time, it was Skinny Love. What was your. I wanna cry.
- [06:40]
Orville Peck
Oh, my God. Oh, my God. I have such a long list. Like, any kind of heartbreaking. I mean, I still listen to Dolly Parton's I Will Always Love youe. I mean, it has never not hit that spot for me. Like, I. Maybe even more as I get older, I'm like. It is just. That is the perfect song in the world, I think, because you're saying goodbye to someone who you love, you're not saying goodbye because it's. You hate them or because they fucked up. You're saying goodbye and wishing someone the absolute most luck and love in the world because you care about them so much and you cannot be with them. I mean, that is. That is love, you know, like, that is, like, that's the. That's the reality of what you deal with in relationships, you know?
- [07:39]
Anna Martin
So what you just said about I will always love you really reminds me of the modern love essay you picked to read today. It's about a lot of those same things. The essay in particular is about love addiction. It's called Strung out on Love and checked in for treatment by Rachel Yoder. And in it, the author, Rachel, does have to say goodbye to someone she feels quite intensely for, but that she has this relationship with that causes her distress and quite frankly, causes a lot of destruction her life. And just to tee it up, I'm going to ask you a sort of big question, which is why do you think love and pain are so often intertwined?
- [08:24]
Orville Peck
I think in my experience with it, because I actually have a lot of experience with this topic. I'm a recovering love addict myself. And I think the problem is when you are a sensitive person and you. You somehow feel ostracized. Perhaps you have this, like, sense of yearning. I think this actually happens a lot with Queer people. And I mean, I'm not just queer people, obviously, but my, from my perspective, like, you know, like, I grew up with a lot of yearning. Like, I was always friends with straight boys. I mean, I was out, but like, all my friends were like skaters and punks and they were all straight boys. And I was always like in love with all these guys. And it was like my whole life was centered around this sort of unrequited love. And like, I never really developed that sort of healthy relationship to. To love. Huh? Like, my love was always one sided and that was sort of my relationship to love and romance. Yeah. I think it's a very fascinating subject and I think it's sort of heartbreaking because at the root of it, I think it's all about just wanting acceptance and to feel that exchange of love. But like, you've never. A lot of people have never felt it and so they don't understand how to even look for it.
- [09:44]
Anna Martin
When we come back, Orval Peck reads the modern love essay. Strung out on love and checked in for treatment. Stay with us.
- [10:19]
Orville Peck
Strung out on love and checked in for treatment by Rachel Yoder in 12 step confessional style. This is what love addiction did to my life. I dropped out of college, quit my job, stopped talking to my family and friends. There was no booze to blame for my blackouts, vomiting and bedwetting, no pills to explain the 15 hours a day I slept, no needles as an excuse for my alarming weight loss. I hit bottom one sleepless night, strung out on the bedroom floor, contemplating suicide. And then I spent four months and a good chunk of my family's money in treatment for love addiction. I know what you're thinking. Love addiction. Give me a break. Believe me, I've thought it too. Even now, years later, I have mixed feelings about the term. But the facts of my experience, a relationship that utterly consumed my life, the magnitude of the depths to which I plunged before I sought help, are indisputable. At the start, our new romance high was unlike any I had experienced. Matt was my night in shining Mercedes, courageously wielding his credit card as we bushwhacked through the malls of northern Virginia. We danced barefoot in the grass at a Harry Connick Jr. Concert, and he surprised me with gifts from Tiffany cunningly stashed in the glove compartment in Atlantic City. We stayed in the honeymoon suite of the Hilton and in Florida, had an ocean view from the Ritz. Day after day, we lay in his be with Sting's fields of gold lilting in the background. But mere weeks into the relationship. Our idyllic soundtrack of golden barley fields, cascading hair and loving promises was replaced by Every Breath youh Take played a deafening volume, and on eternal repeat, we had crossed some boundary from passion to obsession, and we simply couldn't stand to be away from each other. Friends, family members, school and my job became threats, so I left them. Soon our tunnel of love grew so dark and isolating that I could no longer conceive of a life outside it. I couldn't, because our relationship, however damaging, was my life. And if it were to end, I didn't see how I could continue to exist. Things reached a crisis point one night when, after being interrogated by Matt for hours over an old photo he had found of me in the arms of a male friend, I feared he was going to dump me. I spent that night alternating between fantasies of kitchen knives and nagging thoughts I could no longer suppress, telling me that something wasn't right, that love shouldn't make me want to die. Matt decided he needed professional help and announced he was sending himself to an addiction treatment center all the way across the country, in Arizona. Already familiar with the treatment world, Matt knew that what was happening between us was dire. He even gave me a book on love addiction to bring me up to speed. Faced with the prospect of being left in his apartment during that gray march without him or anyone, I decided I would get professional help, too. I wanted to prove to Matt that I was a good girlfriend, worthy of his love. Going to treatment, I reasoned, was the ultimate evidence of this. I went online, and I found a center that was, unsurprisingly, also in Arizona. But my going to treatment to try to make our relationship work was like an alcoholic checking herself in so that she could learn how to drink. I couldn't see that the solution wasn't learning how to live with Matt, but learning how to live without him. I arrived at the center toting my oversized suitcase, exhausted and 15 pounds underweight, with dark circles under my eyes. Four women, my apartment mates, were watching television in the living room. So what are you here for? Um, I'm depressed, I said. And, you know, stuff with my family. Maybe. Alcohol. Love addiction. What about you? Alcohol, she said. Drugs, abuse issues, eating disorders, codependency, depression, anxiety, post traumatic stress, obsessive compulsive disorder, everything. And she was nothing compared with my roommate, whose mom had been murdered, whose dad had died when she was 18, and who, before the age of 20, had been a stripper and a meth addict. Yet here I was at the same place. And all I could really say in response to anyone who asked was I really miss my boyfriend. In addition to group therapy, we had to attend a daily 12 step meeting. I tried Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous, but couldn't connect with people who talked about booze and drugs when all I wanted to talk about was Matt, Matt, Matt. So I stuck to meetings of Sex and Love Addicts Anonymous. Time and again I heard from fellow addicts outlandish stories of vitriolic romances and suicidal tendencies. Crazy, I thought, until I considered how similar their stories were to mine. Because Matt was, in effect, my drug, I wasn't allowed to speak to him during my first month of treatment. So you can imagine my psychotic delight when I returned to my apartment one afternoon at the end of that month to find his voice cooing from the answering machine. It's me, your boyfriend, Matt. These words might as well have been high grade heroin. I wouldn't be surprised if my pupils dilated. I replayed it once, twice, 10 times in a euphoric trance. The reason for Matt's call was to invite me to his treatment center for our very own family week. His undying love for me was confirmed when I discovered that I got a week alone with him. No other family members, just us. I imagined our teary reunion, big hearted acknowledgment of wrongdoing, non accusatory I statements. But on an April afternoon in the middle of the Arizona desert, with both of our therapists present, Matt finally dumped me. I'd never entertained the thought that we might actually break up for good. I erupted into hysterics and looked to Matt, desperate for some sign that this was all a big mistake. He merely stared at his palms, then at me blankly. These are the painful consequences of your actions, his therapist said to me sternly. You should be thankful to Matt for helping you get here. Thankful? No. I raged through the hallways, slamming doors and spewing profanity, then collapsed into fits of malevolent despair, only to be ushered to shady cots throughout the center. I insulted all who implored me to calm down. Back at the motel, I vomited and then endured a night of cold sweats, an endless half dream delirium in the blue light of late night tv. I woke up with a biting headache and soon developed an embarrassing twitch. Since I no longer had Matt's approval and our ultimate reunion as motivation for my recovery, I was forced to consider how I might instead get better for my own sake and started to do all those charmingly neurotic Things that you see in the movies about rehab. I took up kickboxing, crocheted an afghan the size of Rhode island, and ate many, many cookies. I watched Blind Date religiously, got a job waitressing, developed a crush and made plans to finish college. Perhaps most important, I even got rid of my drug's last residue. Matt's message. I listened to it over and over. It's me, your boyfriend, Matt. Your boyfriend, Matt. Your boyfriend. Until one day when I finally unceremoniously erased it. Six years and three relationships later, I am still coming to terms with this experience. For a long time, I resented Matt, blamed him for my life's falling apart, and could not see myself as anything other than a victim. But now I truly feel grateful to him for ending our relationship when I couldn't. For making the difficult choices that he knew in the long run would help both him and me get better. A year ago, in an odd twist of fate, I moved back to the Arizona desert to attend graduate school. Those first few months were some of the hardest since treatment. And I wondered how, after six years, I could be back in the same desolate place feeling much the same way. With my move, I had ended a relationship. And aware of my tendency to numb my heartache with new heartthrob, I put myself on a no dating plan reminiscent of my treatment days. But in a moment of weakness, I completed and posted an online dating profile. And soon my inbox was filled with email messages from men. Each one a little hit for my addiction. But the high wasn't as fulfilling as it used to be. Or maybe I was just too aware of the potential consequences. So I deleted the profile and put my no dating plan back on indefinitely. I don't want my next relationship to be an act of addiction. I don't want to partner up because of some compulsive need. I want to do it right. And for now, that means not doing it at all.
- [20:12]
Anna Martin
We'll be right back. Orville, what's going through your mind now that you've read the essay?
- [20:43]
Orville Peck
Yeah, I mean, I think as I said, I, you know, I have a lot of first hand experience with addiction of a lot of kinds. And also recovery from those addictions. And where she ends off, I think is relatable. Because I think, you know, ultimately when you're an addict, for me, like the drug of whatever that is is, that's like sort of. It's not about that, you know, like I'm a recovering alcoholic, recovering addict, you know, like for me, it's not even really about like, not drinking. It's about dealing with all of the reasons why you drink to cope, right? It's like everything else. Like, not drinking is, like, the. The easiest part. Like, that's the first part. You know what I mean? Like, that's like, the essential first step, but it's everything else, you know? And I think she went to recovery thinking, like, oh, I'm gonna go save this relationship and save that thing. And like, really what she took from it is like, well, oh, actually, it's actually got nothing to do with this relationship. It's actually got nothing to do with this person. It's got nothing to do with anything except for, like, I need to sit down and ask my. Does this form of validation make me feel complete? What's missing within me?
- [21:53]
Anna Martin
You know, you said that you had some experience with love addiction, and I guess, like, in your experience of that, what was the validation you were chasing, in your experience?
- [22:09]
Orville Peck
Yeah, I think growing up, you know, like I said, I never really. I never had, like, relationships. And, like, you know, I think hopefully this is changing now. But, like, in my generation and before, I think a lot of queer people don't hit, like, the milestones that a lot of people hit growing up, you know, Like, I never got to have, like, my first kiss be something, like, sweet and meaningful. It was, like, traumatic because then you're scared, you know? And, like, I never had my first crush was on someone that I couldn't even, like, tell anyone about because I was, like, terrified of kids knowing I was gay, you know? Like, I didn't develop very positive connections to what loving someone was, and I didn't realize how much that had, like, seeped into my adult life, you know? Like, a lot of my first relationships, I really just like, not even consciously. I just truly believed that I was not enough. I had to make someone love me, right? So then love becomes this. It's not an even partnership. It's not an even exchange, you know, it's. It's heavily weighted in one area. And you're also giving someone your total power, you know? And I'm not talking power in, like, you know, like a sort of, like. I mean, like, your. Your.
- [23:20]
Anna Martin
Your power self, yourself, your sense of self.
- [23:22]
Orville Peck
Yeah. And so I did that a lot.
- [23:25]
Anna Martin
Can I ask you the. Like, is there a specific moment or just even image of yourself that's coming to mind when you're speaking about, like, I was craving this. This validation. I was trying to get this love. It was, like, transactional. Is there, like a. A moment in your Life that you can share, that you. You're thinking of when you're speaking about this.
- [23:44]
Orville Peck
Yeah. I mean, you know, this sort of unfortunate chain of events and way of sort of developing that part of myself into my adulthood, you know, it eventually landed me in a really awful relationship that was, you know, very abusive and, like. And for a long time. And it's so interesting because, like, people hear about a relationship like that, and I feel like the. The snap judgment and this is me included even at that time, is like, well, why don't you leave? Like, why are you subjecting yourself to this? Right. But that's where, like, the sad thing about, like, you know, this kind of yearning and this love addiction comes in, is that at that point, you're so relieved to have somebody love you and to have this feeling of being chosen, you know, it's like, goes beyond scene. It's like, I never felt chosen. Yeah. You know, and I think that kind of mentality, it makes you stay in a bad situation because the feeling of being with someone starts to feel more important than the feeling of actually being truly happy or loved. You know, it's so sad.
- [25:02]
Anna Martin
I mean, I really. You're articulating it and really heartbreakingly, how did you recognize that it was time to get out? I mean, for Rachel, it's like Matt, her boyfriend, enters treatment, and she kind of does it just to be with him. But what was your moment of, like, perhaps recognizing the dynamic in knowing you needed to escape it?
- [25:23]
Orville Peck
You know, someone I knew had been in a. In a really toxic and abusive relationship, and they basically broke it off. And he had mentioned a term to me at the time that I'd never heard before, which was that he had never heard before either. But, like, you know, their therapist kind of brought up or whatever, and it's, you know, like narcissistic personality disorder, which now I feel like is like, such an overused term. And, like, everyone's a narcissist now. You know, it's in the culture.
- [25:53]
Anna Martin
It's in the culture.
- [25:53]
Orville Peck
It's like a TikTok term or something. But, you know, like, when it's like an actual. In the actual serious sense of the diagnosis of that with people, I never heard of it. And so I looked it up, and I was like, oh, like, it dawned on me. I was like, this is exactly what I've been struggling with for the last few years of this relationship is this is, you know, who I'm dating. And so then I stayed in it, though, for years, even after that discovery, knowing That I was in an abusive and shitty situation.
- [26:23]
Anna Martin
Yeah.
- [26:24]
Orville Peck
And then it kind of all came to a head at some point and something in me made me just walk out the door in the middle of this crazy, crazy situation that was going on. Just walk out the door in the middle of the night and I walked to, I walked to my parents house.
- [26:42]
Anna Martin
Wow.
- [26:43]
Orville Peck
Yeah, it's, you know, I really viscerally remember it because it must have been like 3 in the morning. It was like pouring rain and I.
- [26:51]
Anna Martin
Was, of course it's raining.
- [26:52]
Orville Peck
Yeah.
- [26:52]
Anna Martin
And does that.
- [26:53]
Orville Peck
But the like I. Everything in my body was telling me like what are you doing? Like you're never going to be able to explain this. I think, you know, like a lot of times being in a, in an abusive situation, you are spending most your time defending and cleaning up after your partner and defending them to your family, your friends and making excuses for them, lying for them, apologizing for them. And I remember like feeling when I was walking like you're never going to be able to explain this. Like how are you going to explain this to your parents that like why are you here at 3 in the morning? What is happening?
- [27:28]
Anna Martin
Did you have to wake them up?
- [27:29]
Orville Peck
I had to wake them up and like went up to their apartment and like, you know, I had to basically say. Because they were like what's going on? And I basically had to say I, I think I'm in an abusive relationship. And I just like broke down and cried because I'd never said the words before and my mother held me and I, you know, I think nobody I told from that day on, including my parents, I had never met a single person that I told that to that was surprised. And so I think it was like relief for them as well because I knew that they were really, really worried about me for a long time because also, you know, it changes you. I was like a different person. I mean that's sort of why I'm laughing in between explaining this because I'm so far from this now and I'm so myself again. But you know, you compare completely lose yourself. It's like that tunnel of love she's talking about. I mean, I know I'm talking specifically about like a situation like this that turns abusive, but yeah, the, the, the thing that is dangerous about this kind of yearning or romanticism or love addiction, whatever you want to call it, the thing that's hard about being a person like that is that if someone can see that that is your Achilles heel to be loved, all that person has to do is show up and like breadcrumb love to you and, and you're fucked. Like you're trapped, you know.
- [28:47]
Anna Martin
But I also feel like you are speaking to us from a place of. You said right now you're maybe in the best place you've been definitely in ever.
- [28:59]
Orville Peck
Ever.
- [28:59]
Anna Martin
So Tella, I mean I know this is years of as we've spoken about, but what is something like a concrete thing that has changed in the way you live your life? Maybe it's like you'd spoken about how it felt so good to be chosen by someone else. And I guess, I wonder like, how have you worked on choosing cheesy? Sorry, but choosing yourself.
- [29:20]
Orville Peck
It totally sounds cheesy, but it's completely accurate. And most cheesy things are to me. I felt like loving myself. That idea felt like such an impossible ask. I felt so really what it was, I think angry at myself that like, you know, like why didn't I develop these things as a kid? So I'm like essentially like bullying the own, the, the, the child within me for years, you know. And when I started to think of it like that, like I started to picture, you know, I have a niece and she's like 8. And I started to picture like them. That's who you're being mean to. Like look at her and imagine that's who you're like being mean to when you speak to yourself this way or when you're judgmental of yourself. That was my internal dialogue for the last 30 years of my life. You know, I have really changed that. That was a huge shift for me. Being aware how, being aware of how I speak to myself in my, in my head, like that was a massive, massive shift for me. There's little things, but it takes a long time. I mean I really, it's crazy. I, I'm, I'm talking like just in the last year or two, I feel like I've really been able to like truly just feel like I really love myself.
- [30:29]
Anna Martin
I mean, you're talking about speaking to your younger self with kindness.
- [30:33]
Orville Peck
Yeah.
- [30:34]
Anna Martin
And for you shared that moment, this like moment of real rock bottom walking from the ex, let's say to your parents house. And I guess I wonder like if you could say something to that version of yourself now, what would you say?
- [31:02]
Orville Peck
I think just like it sounds so cheesy once again. But like I think just that it like this gets better. I know that sounds so overused but like I think when you're in something, whatever that might be, and this isn't even this is for anything, really. When you're. When you're struggling with something in your life, I think it's so hard to imagine that anything could feel better again. I think we. We as humans, unfortunately, like, become so fatalistic and ultimate about these things.
- [31:37]
Anna Martin
I'll feel this way forever.
- [31:38]
Orville Peck
Yeah. Right. I mean, and it's sort of what keeps people definitely within addiction, you know? So, yeah, I think I would just, like, try to assure that time, because I think the hardest thing was, like, I just couldn't imagine a life without this person. Even though they were the most negative and I knew they were the most negative force in my life, I could not imagine what my life was going to be.
- [31:59]
Anna Martin
And now look at you.
- [32:00]
Orville Peck
I know it's crazy.
- [32:01]
Anna Martin
And now look at you.
- [32:04]
Orville Peck
On Broadway. On Broadway. No, it's. It's really wild. But, like, you have to know. You gotta know. It gets better. It's gonna feel better. We are all in control to. To some extent, of course, barring a lot of factors out of our control. But for the most part, like, we are. We are more in control of our happiness than I think we know.
- [32:28]
Anna Martin
Orville Peck, thank you so much for this conversation. It's not an easy thing or a simple thing for anyone to come into a studio with a stranger and talk about hard stuff. So I just. I really appreciate you being so loving.
- [32:44]
Orville Peck
Thank you. I appreciate that. No, it was easy.
- [32:47]
Anna Martin
The final thing I'm gonna say is it's so. The mask. Crying in the mask.
- [32:53]
Orville Peck
My God, I can't believe I. Doesn't everyone cry on this show? I feel like it's like.
- [32:58]
Anna Martin
No, everyone does a little bit. But it's interesting. We've never had someone cry in a mask, so I'm like, the tears go into the mask, and then they go. But it's also kind of nice because it's convenient.
- [33:06]
Orville Peck
I don't know if I've ever cried during an interview.
- [33:07]
Anna Martin
Oh, well, that's kind of cool for him. No, not cool. I'm grateful.
- [33:12]
Orville Peck
I think it's cool.
- [33:14]
Anna Martin
Marvel, let me just say thank you so much, not just for the tears, but for the conversation.
- [33:18]
Orville Peck
Thank you. Those are really lovely conversations. Thank you for. Yeah. Letting me talk about that.
- [33:22]
Anna Martin
Oh, my God. Thank you for going there. This episode of Modern Love was produced by Davis Land with help from Amy Pearl. It was edited by Jessica Metzger and our executive producer, Jen Poyant. Production management by Christina Josa. The Modern Love theme music is by Dan Powell. Original music in this episode by Pat McCusker. Dan Powell. Marian Lozano Alicia Be? Itu and Rowan Niemistel. This episode was mixed by Daniel Ramirez with studio support from Matty Masiello, Nick Pittman and Kathryn Anderson. Special thanks to Mihima Chablani, Nell Galogly and Jeffrey Miranda. And to our video team, Brooke Minters, Felice Leone, Dave Mayers and Eddie Costas. The Modern Love column is edited by Daniel Jones. Mia Lee is the editor of Modern Love Projects. If you want to submit an essay or a tiny love story to the New York Times, we have the instructions in our Show Notes. I'm Anna Martin. Thanks for listening.