Modern Love Podcast: How to Stop Asking 'Are You Mad at Me?' – A Detailed Summary

In the July 30, 2025 episode of Modern Love, hosted by Anna Martin and produced by The New York Times, listeners are invited to explore the intricate emotions tied to the pervasive question, "Are you mad at me?" Featuring Meg Josephson, a therapist and author, this episode delves deep into the anxiety of fearing others' disapproval and the journey towards overcoming it.

Introduction

Anna Martin opens the episode by introducing the guest, Meg Josephson, who has authored a new book titled Are You Mad at Me?. This book examines the nagging suspicion that one has let others down, stemming from a belief in inherent personal flaws. Anna relates to the title, sharing her own experiences of questioning whether she has upset someone after social interactions, highlighting the universal nature of this anxiety.

Understanding the Root of the Anxiety

Meg Josephson discusses her lifelong struggle with the question, "Are you mad at me?" She explains how this anxiety originated in her childhood, especially in her relationship with her father. Growing up, she was constantly vigilant about her father's moods, a behavior that extended into her adult life as she mirrored these patterns with authority figures like bosses.

Meg Josephson [01:25]: "Am I in trouble? Is something wrong with me? Am I bad? Am I secretly bad? And it's just a matter of time before everyone finds out."

Emotional Landscape and the Fawn Response

The conversation shifts to the emotional consequences of this anxiety. Meg identifies shame, anger, and resentment as key emotions associated with the fear of being disliked. She introduces the concept of the fawn response, an unconscious survival mechanism where individuals appease perceived threats by seeking approval and avoiding conflict.

Meg Josephson [06:31]: "The fawn response says, my safety comes from pleasing you, and I can't feel regulated until you're regulated."

Anna prompts Meg to discuss how the fawn response leads to burnout, overthinking, and a loss of self-identity when it becomes a default behavior.

Personal Anecdote: Choosing a Towel

A poignant moment in the episode is Meg's story about selecting towels at Bed, Bath & Beyond. Standing in the aisle with an overwhelming array of colors, she realized she couldn't identify her own preferences without consulting social media for trends. This moment symbolized her deeper struggle with self-identity, shaped by years of seeking approval.

Meg Josephson [09:47]: "I don't even know what my favorite color is."

This realization marked the beginning of her journey towards self-awareness and breaking free from ingrained survival patterns.

Tracing Behaviors Back to Childhood

Meg delves into her childhood, describing a volatile home environment where her father oscillated between being a creative, fun-loving figure and an angry, critical parent. This inconsistency led her to internalize blame, fostering a belief that she was somehow responsible for her parents' unhappiness.

Meg Josephson [14:17]: "I must be so bad to make my parents so unhappy."

She emphasizes the absence of conflict resolution and accountability in her upbringing, which contributed to her anxiety and fear of disapproval in adult relationships.

Healing Through Awareness and Compassion

The conversation underscores the importance of awareness in the healing process. Meg shares how moving to New York City and gaining independence allowed her to recognize and question her maladaptive survival strategies. Through therapy and self-reflection, she began to unravel the connection between her childhood experiences and her adult anxieties.

Meg Josephson [16:41]: "Healing starts with awareness. And, you know, we really can't heal anything until we're aware of it."

Meg also discusses how developing compassion for her parents' pain helped her neutralize personal blame, fostering a healthier relationship with herself and others.

Meg Josephson [42:00]: "Understanding why they did it, understanding the pain they must have been in to cause that damage. It doesn't excuse it, but it explains it."

Reading of the Modern Love Essay

A significant portion of the episode features the reading of Erin Brown's essay, "My Three Years As a Beloved Daughter," by Meg Josephson. The essay resonates deeply with Meg's own experiences of longing for parental love and grappling with emotional neglect.

Reflection on the Essay

After the reading, Meg connects the essay to her personal life, particularly her feelings of not being truly known by her parents. She shares her grief over her father's passing and her mother's struggle with Alzheimer's, illustrating the enduring impact of emotional distance and unresolved feelings.

Meg Josephson [37:24]: "I really miss Mom."

She describes her attempt to reach out to her father to share her grief, only to encounter further emotional distance, highlighting the complexities of familial relationships.

Compassion Towards Parents and Personal Growth

Meg elaborates on developing compassion for her parents by understanding their own pain and struggles, rather than viewing their actions as personal failures. This shift in perspective has been crucial in her healing journey, allowing her to let go of ingrained anger and resentment.

Meg Josephson [43:32]: "Our parents' weaknesses become our own strengths because we're all just choosing something to improve upon from our parents."

Conclusion

The episode wraps up with Anna and Meg reflecting on the importance of addressing and healing from childhood-induced anxieties to foster healthier, more authentic relationships. Meg's insights offer valuable strategies for listeners to recognize and overcome the debilitating fear of being disliked or undervalued.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Meg Josephson [01:25]: "Am I in trouble? Is something wrong with me? Am I bad? Am I secretly bad? And it's just a matter of time before everyone finds out."

• Meg Josephson [04:22]: "Shame is a big one... Anger and resentment are really big ones in that we don't allow ourselves to feel them."

• Meg Josephson [06:31]: "The fawn response says, my safety comes from pleasing you, and I can't feel regulated until you're regulated."

• Meg Josephson [09:47]: "I don't even know what my favorite color is."

• Meg Josephson [14:17]: "I must be so bad to make my parents so unhappy."

• Meg Josephson [37:24]: "I really miss Mom."

• Meg Josephson [42:00]: "Understanding why they did it, understanding the pain they must have been in to cause that damage. It doesn't excuse it, but it explains it."

• Meg Josephson [43:32]: "Our parents' weaknesses become our own strengths because we're all just choosing something to improve upon from our parents."

Final Thoughts

"Modern Love" episode "How to Stop Asking 'Are You Mad at Me?'" offers a heartfelt exploration of the anxieties rooted in childhood experiences and their lingering effects on adult relationships. Through Meg Josephson's personal stories and expert insights, listeners gain a deeper understanding of the mechanisms behind the fear of disapproval and learn effective strategies to overcome them, fostering healthier and more fulfilling connections.