I Cashed Out My 401(k) to Build a Women’s Only Retirement Community

Summary

Modern Love – "I Cashed Out My 401(k) to Build a Women’s Only Retirement Community"

Host: Anna Martin (The New York Times)
Guests: Robin Urian and Cheryl Huff
Release Date: December 17, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode explores what it means to age and retire on your own terms through the story of Robin Urian, who cashed out her 401(k) to build the Bird’s Nest, a women’s-only retirement community in Texas. Joined by her friend and first resident Cheryl Huff, Robin discusses the genesis, evolution, and daily realities of the Bird’s Nest, and together they reflect on women’s experiences, empowerment, and why more women should consider alternative approaches to aging together.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Creating the Bird’s Nest (02:13, 02:27)

• Robin envisioned a communal, supportive environment—originally not gender-specific.
• They built the community from scratch: "When we lived here, we first moved out here, I mean, there was nothing. And just the two of us and we just went to work…" — Cheryl (02:31).

Visual Tour:

• 10 tiny homes, outdoor kitchen, green spaces, friendly dogs (01:59).
• "My dogs think this is. Every house here is theirs. So they're always on somebody's deck." — Cheryl (02:16).

2. Transition to an All-Women’s Community (03:23, 04:40)

• Cheryl hosted a "learn to use power tools" workshop for women; the group quickly bonded.
• The idea of a women-only space grew organically: “And we had so much fun…And I said, what if we did this all women? And it was like, yeah, yeah…” — Cheryl (04:05).

3. The Power and Freedom of Female Community (05:37–08:29)

• Ease and Authenticity:
  • "There’s an ease…you don’t have to guard what you say or how you say it or what you look like..." (05:50, Cheryl)
  • “We change when men are around,” Cheryl observes (06:14).
• Vulnerability and Shared Experience:
  • Sharing of taboo or embarrassing topics fosters camaraderie:
    • “I pee when I sneeze.” — Robin (07:21)
    • “Nobody’s judging you for it. Can you imagine saying that in front of men?” — Cheryl (07:51)

4. Empowerment and Self-Sufficiency (08:38–11:20)

• Both guests emphasize gaining new skills and the pride of handling tasks alone:
  • “You might have to work harder, but you don’t have to depend on a man for everything.” — Robin (09:59)
  • "If I have to, I'll take that jar and slam it on the ground and pick out the glass." — Cheryl (11:03)
  • Creative workarounds: Robin built a lever and pulley system to compensate as physical strength declines (12:00).

5. Mutual Aid Without Expectation (13:29–14:56)

• Illnesses and health episodes are faced together, yet “with no expectation.”
• “Robyn does not keep track...you do it when you feel like doing it, and you feel like doing it because you’re not expected to do it.” — Cheryl (14:28)
• Their children have their own lives; thus, the community takes on care roles.

6. Facing Aging & the Future (16:01–17:52)

• Attitude toward aging is pragmatic and optimistic:
  • Not over-planning, but trusting in their ability to manage challenges:
    • "Some people over prepare and that's where they get their comfort from. I get my comfort from knowing whatever it is, we're gonna work it out." — Robin (17:02)
  • Hope that the environment ("fresh air and joy") keeps them healthier for longer.

7. Averting Nursing Homes, Seeking Dignity (19:03–19:49)

• Strong aversion to institutional care:
  • “All I ever hear is, you go to a nursing home to die…if you can stay in your home, that's everybody's dream, right? To die in your own bed.” — Cheryl (19:07)
  • The Bird’s Nest offers the chance to stay home, with friends.

8. Everyday Joys & Emotional Resilience (20:00–21:28)

• Residents find happiness in small moments:
  • “I smile every time I see my house. It's just so little and cute.” — Robin (20:00)
  • “Despair…just doesn't get in my body…I'm just grateful for everything that I have here.” — Cheryl (20:38)
• Support system tempers pessimism:
  • "I'm a pessimist with hope…I know I'm gonna be okay because I'm strong enough and I, you know, now I have this support system.” — Robin (21:03)

9. The Need for Models Like the Bird’s Nest (22:04–25:38)

• Addressing isolation and the lack of clear societal in older women's roles:
  • "What is the worst thing that you can think of?...it’s being all by myself in a time of strife or, or in it where I’m scared." — Cheryl (22:05)
• Many older women face financial insecurity and social isolation post-retirement or divorce (24:01–25:38).
• Bird’s Nest provides purpose and community beyond prescribed roles.

10. Redefining Purpose and Role in Later Life (25:49–26:46)

• At the Bird’s Nest, roles are emergent, based on kindness and agency:
  • “Our role is to help, to be a good person. Help when you can, do what you can on your own, maybe bring a little joy to somebody else's life.” — Robin (25:49)
  • “But at the end of the day, what I try to tell everybody is we can only control and take care of our little part of the world…and do what we can for the community…I want my role to just be happy.” — Cheryl (26:08)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Community Bonding:
  “It was more like a feeling that, gosh, look at what in one day or two days of these 12 women working together, laughing together, eating together…instant best friends.”
  — Cheryl Huff (04:40)

• On Authenticity Among Women:
  “It's like being in a slumber party that you can talk about the things that are embarrassing…and when somebody brings it up here. Oh, yeah. Oh, me too.”
  — Cheryl Huff (06:18)

• On Empowerment:
  “I validated that to the nth degree doing what I've done here…you just have to be persistent.”
  — Cheryl Huff (08:38)

• On Facing Physical Limitations:
  “If I have to, I’ll take that jar and slam it on the ground and pick out the glass.”
  — Cheryl Huff (11:03)

• On Mutual Non-Obligation:
  “You do it when you feel like doing it, and you feel like doing it because you’re not expected to do it.”
  — Robin Urian (14:45)

• On Resilience and Support:
  “I'm a pessimist with hope…I know I'm gonna be okay because…now I have this support system.”
  — Robin Urian (21:03)

• On Isolation and Aging:
  “That’s what this community does for each other. I think that more women should do this and spend that money. Spend that money. Don’t wait.”
  — Cheryl Huff (23:38)

• On Purpose in Community:
  “Our role is to help, to be a good person. Help when you can do what you can on your own, maybe bring a little joy to somebody else's life.”
  — Robin Urian (25:49)

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Important Timestamps

• [01:59]: A visual description of the Bird’s Nest
• [04:40]: Origin of the all-women’s community
• [07:21]: Example of vulnerability among women (“I pee when I sneeze”)
• [08:38]: Self-sufficiency and empowerment in daily life
• [14:45]: The ethic of care without obligation
• [16:01]: Attitudes toward aging and practical planning
• [19:07]: The desire to avoid nursing homes
• [20:00]: Sources of joy at the Bird’s Nest
• [22:05]: Fears of isolation and aging alone
• [23:38]: Encouragement for other women to consider similar communities
• [25:49]: Redefining purpose and role in an aging community

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Episode Tone

Conversational, warm, honest, and reflective—often lightly humorous and deeply empathetic, with a persistent sense of hope and practicality.

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Summary

This heartfelt conversation reimagines what aging can look like for women. By founding the Bird’s Nest, Robin and Cheryl have built more than a retirement community; they’ve created a space for empowerment, honest connection, and everyday joy, where mutual aid arises naturally and life’s burdens and victories are truly shared. Their story challenges prevailing narratives of fear, isolation, and dependency in old age, instead offering a vision of freedom, resilience, and solidarity among women. Their guiding lesson: don’t wait—create the community and happiness you hope for, together.

Transcript

[Anna Martin]

Love now and did you fall in love last, fella?

[Robin Urian]

Love Love was stronger than anything for the love of love and I love you more than anything. You're still up.

[Anna Martin]

Love. From the New York Times, I'm Anna Martin. This is Modern Love. Today I'm talking to two friends who are completely rethinking what it means to retire and what it means to get older together. Their names are Robin Urian and Cheryl Huff. A few years ago, Robin cashed out her 401k and bought a piece of land in Texas about an hour outside of Dallas. She set up a bunch of spots for tiny homes. She built an outdoor kitchen, and she started renting the space out. She called it the Bird's Nest. Cheryl was the first to move in. Then other women joined her. In fact, the Bird's Nest is all women, all women older than 60. And in a country where, for many people, getting older can be isolating and difficult, the women of the Bird's Nest are learning it doesn't have to be. Today, Robin and Cheryl tell me why these years at the Bird's Nest have been some of the freest and happiest of their lives and why they think more women should do something similar. Stay with us. Robin Urian and Cheryl Huff, welcome to the show.

[Cheryl Huff]

Hi. How are you?

[Robin Urian]

Happy to be here.

[Anna Martin]

If I came walking up your driveway of the Bird's Nest, what would I see?

[Cheryl Huff]

You would see this huge area, 10 tiny homes, an outdoor kitchen, lots of green, lots of dogs would probably greet you.

[Robin Urian]

Just walking around.

[Cheryl Huff]

Yeah, just walking around.

[Robin Urian]

This was a pasture.

[Cheryl Huff]

Yep. My dogs think this is. Every house here is theirs. So they're always on somebody's deck.

[Anna Martin]

How did you get the idea to make this land into the Bird's Nest?

[Cheryl Huff]

Well, because it. I mean, it was always going to be a tiny house community. I knew that when I bought it. So you set it up like an RV park. So we had all these 14 pads and 14 power poles and on 2 1/2 acres fenced in. And the two of us. Yeah, and there the two of us were. And in fact, it was funny, I saw some pictures last night that I was like, oh, my God, it was desolate out here. When we lived here, we first moved out here, I mean, there was nothing. And just the two of us and we just went to work trying to plant things and, you know, make gardens and hauling brush and rocks and it was crazy.

[Anna Martin]

I want to understand why you decided and how you decided that this should be a community for all women.

[Cheryl Huff]

Oh, well, I didn't in the beginning, I did not set this up to be an all women's community. I just wanted a community. And I bought a little tiny house that I could rent out. And it was bare bones, right? And so I thought, okay, going to have a builder's workshop. And that was for just women. And I posted it as Learn to use power tools for women only. And that we would mess with this little tiny house, right? And it was a three day seminar. And these women came. How many do we have? Maybe 12. And didn't know these people from Adam. And we had so much fun. And we were sitting around the fire one evening and I said, what if we did this all women? And it was like, yeah, yeah, slow me down there.

[Anna Martin]

So you're sitting around the fire with these women who you've taught to use. Well, I'm gonna show you that I don't know anything. I'm like a chainsaw, a drill, a drill, other tools.

[Robin Urian]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Anna Martin]

Okay, so I clearly needed the seminar. But you're sitting around and do you remember how it came up? Like this should be all women. Do you remember? No.

[Cheryl Huff]

I think it was more like a feeling that, gosh, look at what in one day or two days of these 12 women working together, laughing together, eating together, look what that's done to us as this small group. And it made us like, ah, instant best friends. And I guess it was a feeling and I think I probably said it, I'm sure I said it. What if I did this all women and everybody was just, gosh, that would be awesome, Robin.

[Anna Martin]

It's one thing to be like, man, this is a great workshop, great crew of women. To being like, I want to live with, with all women in this relatively like, actually very isolated space. Like what felt possible if you made the bird's nest. All women.

[Robin Urian]

Ease, I guess, ease. Being easy with people. That instant bonding, the recognition that we have things in common. Just because we're women.

[Cheryl Huff]

Just because we're women. Yeah. And it was easy. You know, you can, you don't have to guard what you say or how you say it or, or what you look like or, you know, and at the end of the day, no matter what anybody wants to say, we women, we. I've seen it in myself. We change when men are around.

[Anna Martin]

Tell me more about that. Yeah, well.

[Cheryl Huff]

I've, I've observed it. Just the women will carry themselves differently. They'll talk differently. They'll, you know, oh, gee, look at my shirt. Oh, it's all yucky. You know, I think and that's just. I mean, not that it's bad. That's just in us, I think. And I'm the same way. Not saying anybody's. I'm different than anybody else, but there's an ease when it comes to. It's like being in a slumber party that you can talk about the things that are embarrassing and even maybe you don't like to talk about it with other women, but when somebody brings it up here. Oh, yeah. Oh, me too. Yeah.

[Anna Martin]

Wait, can you give me. Okay, you know, you just said it's maybe embarrassing, but can you give me an example of something you're able to talk about with just women that you wouldn't be if you were in mixed company, as it were?

[Cheryl Huff]

Well, Cheryl, you want to tell what we always come back to?

[Robin Urian]

I pee when I sneeze.

[Anna Martin]

Every time.

[Robin Urian]

No.

[Anna Martin]

Okay.

[Robin Urian]

Good thing I don't have allergies.

[Anna Martin]

But, yeah, I was going to say.

[Robin Urian]

But things like that, that's a woman's experience because we lose muscle tone. We've had children, we. So we have common experiences as we age, things happen to us that people don't talk about, and then we get together. It's like, you, too.

[Cheryl Huff]

Yeah. Nobody's judging you for it. Can you imagine saying that in front of men? Oh, gosh. Oh, by the way, sometimes when I sneeze, I pee.

[Robin Urian]

And no man would say, me too.

[Cheryl Huff]

Well, and they're all going to go, oh, when. You know what? Whatever happens to men when they get 65, they wish they could be.

[Anna Martin]

And by the way, let's not even talk about it. Let's not even talk about it.

[Cheryl Huff]

Right.

[Anna Martin]

And so they wish they could be.

[Cheryl Huff]

And so that's the difference. That right there. And it doesn't always. It's just small little things like that.

[Anna Martin]

What have you. This is to both of you. I'm curious, what have you discovered about yourself living in a space without men?

[Cheryl Huff]

I can do. Well, I've always been taught this, that I could do whatever a boy could do. And I validated that to the nth degree doing what I've done here and that. And that's empowering, and that's what I want all women to realize, that you can do it. You can do whatever you want to do. You just have to be persistent. And I think when you're married and you have the man and you have these expectations that, okay, he's going to take care of me. He's. There's certain things that he's going to do for me. And here you Wake up in the morning and you just. There's something to do, you do it. God, take the trash out, you're gonna do it. You don't put expectations on anybody else, and so you're never disappointed.

[Robin Urian]

And if it's something that takes two of you to do it, then you go get somebody else. And we have different skills. Different skills. So if I can't do something, I know there's somebody here that can show me how.

[Cheryl Huff]

I just want women to realize that you might have to work harder, but you don't have to depend on a man for everything, you know?

[Robin Urian]

And I don't think it's necessarily that either one of us learned that while we were out here. It's that we already operated like that. I know I'm not gonna do it right, but I'm gonna do it. Yeah, and it'll work, but no, it won't be right.

[Cheryl Huff]

There might be 10 nails in it, as opposed to one. Yes, but it's gonna work.

[Robin Urian]

It's gonna work. Cause I'm not giving up till it works, and I was already like that. But out here, it's accepted, it's encouraged. You're not judged, you're not judged. They'll hand you another nail. I think it needs one more.

[Cheryl Huff]

Some of the comments sometimes on these different articles that just tickle me to death. Well, who's gonna. Oh, it's always men. Well, who's gonna open a jar?

[Anna Martin]

Oh, my gosh, no. Are you serious?

[Cheryl Huff]

Yes, several times.

[Robin Urian]

Yes.

[Cheryl Huff]

And I think to myself, if I have to, I'll take that jar and slam it on the ground and pick out the glass. So.

[Robin Urian]

I took a hammer to a pill bottle yesterday, so.

[Cheryl Huff]

Yeah, But I do realize now that strength is going.

[Anna Martin]

So there are, as in your strength, your physical strength.

[Cheryl Huff]

Yes, physical strength. In fact, I was telling my son, I said, gosh, I have to start lifting weights because I don't want to have to yet depend on strength, somebody else to lift my propane tank into my, you know, house.

[Anna Martin]

What do you think will happen when you reach that point?

[Cheryl Huff]

I don't know.

[Robin Urian]

I have devised in my mind a little Levy, A little lever and pulley system.

[Cheryl Huff]

Nice, Cheryl. My guy.

[Anna Martin]

Nice Cheryl. Yes. I love it. I love that. Ooh, what's that?

[Robin Urian]

That's a bird ringing the bell on my door. She wants me to go over there and let her in.

[Anna Martin]

And bird is my dog, Robin. Dog. Your technically a resident.

[Robin Urian]

Yes, she likes to come over and take a little break in my house.

[Anna Martin]

But that's so sweet. And how Does a dog ring a doorbell?

[Cheryl Huff]

Actually, I'm realizing, oh, she has a special bell. A little bell.

[Robin Urian]

It's like a shop bell, but it's down on the bottom of the door. And so she.

[Anna Martin]

And she nudges it with her nose. Yep.

[Robin Urian]

Well, sometimes she smacks it with her paw and then sends me a dirty look.

[Anna Martin]

We'll be right back. In this community of mostly retirement age, women are all. Is everyone in the community over 60? Is that. Is that true?

[Cheryl Huff]

Yep.

[Anna Martin]

Okay. All over 60.

[Cheryl Huff]

Yep.

[Anna Martin]

How do you handle it if someone gets sick?

[Cheryl Huff]

Well, we've had that. Just last month, we had.

[Robin Urian]

It was a bad month.

[Cheryl Huff]

A total knee replacement and bypassed heart surgery and a broken foot, and we got a broke. And a broken ankle.

[Anna Martin]

Wow.

[Cheryl Huff]

So that left.

[Robin Urian]

We ran out of drivers.

[Cheryl Huff]

We were driving everywhere. But that's what we're. That's. That's what I wanted when I.

[Anna Martin]

What. What did you want?

[Cheryl Huff]

I wanted us to take care of each other as much as we possibly.

[Anna Martin]

Could, but with no expectation, which I think is the really interesting part of your. You want. You wanted a community, and in fact, I think you've created the two of you a community where there is this mutual support, but there's no expectation. Can you explain to me how those two things work together?

[Robin Urian]

Robyn does not keep track. She just doesn't. That's not a normal thing, and it's hard for people to understand that. And I spend some time explaining, no, she really is not keeping track.

[Anna Martin]

Like, not a tit for tat. I support you, you support me, that kind of thing.

[Robin Urian]

No, not at all. And that's very freeing also, that you do it when you feel like doing it, and you feel like doing it because you're not expected to do it.

[Cheryl Huff]

That's perfectly right. I mean, we know as a group that are here now, and we've been together now for quite a while, that, hey, we'll do whatever we can to take care of each other, to keep each other from going into a nursing home. We all have children, but, you know, our children are in their mid-30s, late or early-40s, and they're at the epitome of their career. So they're blowing and going to get where they want to get. So we alleviate that pressure for them also. And us as parents, you know, we don't want to constantly call our kids and go, hey, can you take me here? Oh, I broke my ankle. And so I don't ever feel obligated to take someone or do something. I just. It's part of our Jobs as residents.

[Anna Martin]

Here, how do you think about the future? You know, you're planning to age together, right? So how do you, how do you think about what's to come?

[Cheryl Huff]

I don't, you know, I don't. I. We talk about it not very often. I think we've kind of set our peace at one point that we will do whatever we can for each other to keep each other out of a nursing home. And if that means that somebody ends up with a ramp and we cook them meals and they're in a wheelchair, whatever, that as much as we can possibly do, but we can't prepare for the future we've talked about. Maybe we'll get a healthcare nurse, free rent, and she'll just go from house to house.

[Anna Martin]

I mean, it'd be a great idea, right?

[Cheryl Huff]

Why couldn't that work? I mean, I don't know how it all works, but there are little things that we have discussed, but we're not there. So I'm not gonna lose any sleep over it till it happens.

[Anna Martin]

Cheryl, is that how you think about it too? Sort of like we'll cross that bridge?

[Robin Urian]

Yes. Because no one, no one knows. You can't. And I don't like to waste happiness thinking of things that may or may not happen. Some people over prepare and that's where they get their comfort from. I get my comfort from knowing whatever it is, we're gonna work it out.

[Cheryl Huff]

Yep.

[Robin Urian]

And I'm not gonna waste any time on. I don't get comfort from getting all the little details down because I don't believe it matters.

[Cheryl Huff]

Well, it never. And what happens if that doesn't work?

[Robin Urian]

Exactly.

[Cheryl Huff]

Now you're scrambling. Oh, for 10 years you've, this is how you thought it was going to happen. Oh, now I gotta switch gears. And so it's just, it's easier, I think, to just kind of go with.

[Robin Urian]

The flow and know that it's going.

[Cheryl Huff]

To work out and that we're going to do whatever we're going to do.

[Robin Urian]

The best we can.

[Cheryl Huff]

I mean, and I think that I'm hoping that this environment will keep us healthier for longer. If it's everything people say is, you know, oh, you know, fresh air and moving and joy, joy laughter, that that is going to keep us all on, maybe better for what, six months, a year, who knows what that could possibly be? But, you know, I don't think we're ever gonna let anybody sit in their house and go, oh, poor pitiful me, I've got whatever ailment, you know, it's Kind of like drawing people out because.

[Robin Urian]

We all have something. We all have something. So there's no pity party.

[Anna Martin]

I'm gonna ask this, which is. Maybe it seems obvious, but I'd appreciate you letting me into your thinking. You know, you say a goal is to not be in a nursing home. That's clearly meaningful and important to you.

[Cheryl Huff]

Absolutely.

[Anna Martin]

Why is that?

[Cheryl Huff]

I haven't heard any good stories about nursing homes. All I ever hear is, you go to a nursing home to die. It's your last resort. I've been in nursing homes, and it is not a place that it's pleasant. And I think they're only going to go downhill, you know, based on what's happening out in the world. But, I mean, gosh, if you can stay in your home, that's everybody's dream, right? To die in your own bed.

[Robin Urian]

And I am a homebody. I just want to be home. More than I want to go somewhere or do something, I just want to be home. And to have that taken away from me, I think would be really hard.

[Cheryl Huff]

It'd be really hard, yeah.

[Anna Martin]

What's something. It can be small, but something specific. That made you feel joy recently at the Bird's Nest. Both of you.

[Robin Urian]

I smile every time I see my house. It's just so little and cute. It's so cute. I just. When I drive up to it, I just smile.

[Cheryl Huff]

Yeah. I mean, I wake up. I don't know. I'm. Today I was. Woke up. I mean, this morning I was like, okay, I got all the Christmas decorations out. Now I'm gonna. That makes me joyful that I'm gonna put up my Christmas decorations. It's a. What's. What's the opposite of joyful?

[Robin Urian]

Unhappy.

[Cheryl Huff]

What.

[Anna Martin]

It would be despair.

[Robin Urian]

Yeah.

[Cheryl Huff]

That just doesn't get in my body, you know? Do I get sad? Sad does, but it's fleeting and. But despair, never. And out here, my gosh, I can't. I'm just grateful for everything that I have here.

[Robin Urian]

I'm a pessimist with hope. I think things are probably gonna go really bad, but I know I'm gonna be okay because I'm strong enough and I, you know, now I have this support system. So it's not a everything's wonderful kind of joy. It's a, you know, whatever it is, we can handle it. We'll be fine.

[Anna Martin]

I feel kind of emotional hearing you say that. I just. I don't know.

[Cheryl Huff]

I.

[Anna Martin]

It's not the. And I don't. You know, who knows if the. But this is not the narrative or the experience that we typically hear about aging, it's just not right.

[Cheryl Huff]

It's just not.

[Anna Martin]

I mean, this is like a. It's not naive. Itay, right. You're not being Pollyanna. Ish. Everything's gonna be fine. We'll never have a. It's like what comes will handle it. Whether it takes one nail, whether it takes 10. You know, we have the support and.

[Cheryl Huff]

We'Ll have each other. We'll have each other.

[Robin Urian]

Yeah.

[Cheryl Huff]

You know, I mean, what is the worst thing that you can think of? And for me, for me, it's being all by myself in a time of strife or, or in it where I'm scared. You know, that is. I think that's probably one of my. A big fear of mine that to be by myself and dealing and you have people with you, you can deal with so much that you can't emotionally deal with on your own. Whether it's friends, family, whoever. You just don't want to, hey, die alone or go through hardship alone. It's ten times harder. And I know you get that when you're married, but the majority of, of, of 65 year old women, I mean, I don't know what the statistics are, but they're pretty high that we're all by ourselves.

[Robin Urian]

Yes.

[Cheryl Huff]

Our husbands have died, our husbands have left us or we've divorced, you know, so.

[Robin Urian]

And you're in a house by yourself. By yourself. And the friends you used to have, you don't have any activities with them anymore, so you don't really see them. And during COVID all my friends were alone in a house and they were doing zoom calls desperately, you know, and we're over there having margaritas and watching movies. On the tv on the table.

[Anna Martin]

Yeah.

[Robin Urian]

On the side of a house. And yeah.

[Cheryl Huff]

That's what this community does for each other. I think that more women should do this and spend that money. Spend that money. Don't wait.

[Anna Martin]

And why do you say women specifically? Like, what do you think it is? Why is it so important?

[Cheryl Huff]

Because clearly women need this. I mean, you know, how many women contact me? It's just unbelievable.

[Robin Urian]

Living in their cars.

[Cheryl Huff]

Unbelievable.

[Robin Urian]

Yeah. Thousands in dire straits.

[Anna Martin]

What does that speak to, do you think? Does it speak to retirement? Does it speak to the roles that women are expected to fulfill, especially as they get older?

[Cheryl Huff]

What roles are we expected to fulfill as we get older? I don't know what that role is. I don't think women know what that role is.

[Robin Urian]

We don't have one.

[Cheryl Huff]

What is it? There's no role for us out here. We are now done. We are, we're. Once you retire, what is our role? If you don't have the means, if you don't. Women have, you know, we haven't had the same salary. Hopefully after my generation, that that's gonna not be a conversation. Hopefully. But you know, we took care of the kids. We had a job that was the secondary kind of job to the. Your husband. They put all the money in you that 401k, they. And then, okay, now you're divorced. I can't tell you how many women they're divorced. Their husbands left them at 6,65 like. And they had a menial job. It didn't. They never put in their 401k. And now, now what happens? You know, what's your role?

[Anna Martin]

That's the question you asked. What's your role?

[Cheryl Huff]

There is no role for us.

[Anna Martin]

At the Bird's Nest. Do you have a role? If so, what is it?

[Robin Urian]

I think everyone here feels that our role is to help, to help, to be. To be a good person. Help when you can do what you can on your own, maybe bring a little joy to somebody else's life. Just, you know.

[Cheryl Huff]

I don't know what my role is. I don't know what our role is out here. You know, you can get all bogged down in the whole political issues and the things going on, but at the end of the day, what I try to tell everybody is we can only control and take care of our little part of the world. And if we in here can be kind to each other and respectful and, you know, do what we can for the community. I don't know. I don't know what my role is, but my role is to just be happy. That's what I want for myself.

[Anna Martin]

Robin, Cheryl, thank you for telling me your story. I really appreciate it.

[Cheryl Huff]

You're welcome.

[Robin Urian]

Thank you for being interested.

[Cheryl Huff]

Right.

[Anna Martin]

The Modern Love team is Amy Pearl, Davis Land, Elisa Gutierrez, Emily Lang, Jen Poyant, Lynn Levy, Reeva Goldberg and Sarah Curtis. This episode was produced by Sarah Curtis and Amy Pearl with help from Davis Land. It was edited by Lynn Levy and Jen Poyant. Our mix engineer was Daniel Ramirez. And special thanks to Lisa Miller. It was her reporting that inspired this episode. If you want to read her feature about the bird's nest, it's very good. We'll link it in the show notes. Original music in this episode by Marian Lozano, Sonia Herrero, Rowan Nimisto and Dan Powell. Dan also composed our theme music. The Modern Love column is edited by Daniel Jones. Mia Lee is the editor of Modern Love Projects. If you're interested in submitting a Modern Love essay or a tiny love story for consideration, you can, you know. The instructions are in our show notes. I'm Anna Martin. Thanks for listening.