Is Polyamory Right for You?

Summary

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Modern Love: "Is Polyamory Right for You?"

Host: Anna Martin | Guest: Dr. Eli Sheff
Date: July 29, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this episode, host Anna Martin interviews Dr. Eli Sheff, a leading expert on polyamory who has spent over three decades studying polyamorous relationships and, in particular, the lives of children who grow up in polyamorous families. Their conversation traces Dr. Sheff’s personal and research journey into polyamory, explores the realities of family structures beyond monogamy, and offers nuanced advice for anyone questioning whether polyamory is right for them. The discussion debunks myths, shares research-backed insights, and reflects on what makes relationships—monogamous or polyamorous—successful.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Discovering Polyamory: A Personal Journey

[02:07–07:32]

• Dr. Sheff recounts her first encounter with non-monogamy: in her early 20s, she dated a man who openly stated he did not want monogamy or marriage.
  • She recalls her initial reaction as "negative" and "a hot mess," associating polyamory with insecurity and logistical chaos.
• The term "polyamory" was not widely known at the time, and neither she nor her partner used the word; he simply expressed a desire for non-monogamy.
• Hearing an NPR interview with Ryam Nearing of Loving More was an "aha moment," giving language and context to what she and her partner had wrestled with for years.
  • Quote:
    “Loving openly and honestly. Loving multiple people at the same time, kind of having multiple partner relationships, but not hiding it from anyone.”
    — Dr. Eli Sheff, [08:31]
• Attending her first polyamory meetup, she’s surprised by how many people live this way and how positive many find it.

2. From Personal Curiosity to Research

[15:39–18:09]

• Dr. Sheff became academically involved with polyamory after a research methods class assignment turned into the seed of her dissertation.
• In the late 1990s, almost no academic research existed on polyamory—she and only a couple of others were among the first to study it.
• Over time, the Modern Love host and Dr. Sheff reflect on how mainstream the concept of polyamory has become compared to the '90s.

3. The Children of Polyamorous Families

[18:09–29:25]

• As a consequence of public curiosity (“But what about the children?”), Dr. Sheff conducted a long-term study involving over 213 people, including 33 children under 18.
  • Ethnographic methods included repeated interviews and immersive observation at family events.
• Key Research Questions for Kids:
  • Would you want to be polyamorous as an adult?
  • Would you have chosen a different family if you could?
  • Do you miss your parents’ partners when relationships end?
• Notable Findings:
  • Most kids were open-minded about future relationship styles, saying it would depend on their own future partner's wishes.
  • All children interviewed said they wouldn’t want a different family, despite difficulties.
  • Emotional ties often survived romantic breakups—parents facilitated ongoing relationships with beloved adults.
  • Kids valued the attention, practical benefits (more rides, more support), and especially, the communication skills gained in poly families.
  • Their #1 complaint: with so many adults in the house, “they couldn’t get away with anything.”
    • Quote:
      “Somebody was a night owl and was gaming at 3 o’clock in the morning and sees them trying to sneak back in.”
      — Dr. Eli Sheff, [33:38]
• Stigma was present but not overwhelmingly impactful, as many poly families "fly under the social radar" much like blended families after divorce.

4. Emotional and Communication Skills

[27:09–32:07]

• Kids learn “natural community making”—the ability to negotiate, self-advocate, and manage change.
• The omnipresent family meeting discussions (“chore wheel talks”) were tedious in childhood but proved invaluable as life skills in adulthood—especially when navigating responsibilities and boundaries in other relationships.

5. Monogamy vs. Polyamory: Not One-Size-Fits-All

[37:08–40:01]

• Dr. Sheff distinguishes between fear and genuine preference: she’s no longer afraid of polyamory but knows, after 30 years, that she’s wired for monogamy.
  • Quote:
    “Being afraid of something is different than not wanting to do it. I’m not scared of it anymore, but I still don’t wanna do it.”
    — Dr. Eli Sheff, [37:36]
• She likens romantic/sexual orientation to “power strips”:
  • “I have one plug and that’s it... I think most people have an indeterminate number of plugs.”
    — Dr. Eli Sheff, [38:04]

6. How to Decide if Polyamory is Right for You

[39:11–43:48]

• Don’t just ask “Do I want multiple partners?” Instead, reflect: “How does it feel if your partner is with someone else while you’re home folding laundry?”
  • Quote:
    “Lots of us can think, oh yes, I would like multiple partners. But one of the biggest issues around a successful polyamorous relationship is: how do you feel when your partner is out with someone else?”
    — Dr. Eli Sheff, [40:21]
• People suited for polyamory tend to crave novelty, have a “faster life history” (moved around, tried multiple jobs/relationships) and are less prone to jealousy.
• Those who are highly affected by jealousy, or whose sense of security anchors to exclusivity, are likely not good candidates.
• Polyamory is most successful when partners have overall compatibility; a mismatch only on exclusivity is more surmountable than when added to a host of other disagreements.

7. Polyamory & Relationship Advice

[44:00–46:40]

• For couples where one partner desires polyamory and the other does not (“mixed dynamic”):
  • Compromise could include “hall passes” during trips or conventions, as long as safety and boundaries are respected.
  • If a compromise can’t be reached, and if one is firmly monogamous, the relationship may need to end.
  • The monogamous partner’s needs being “filled to overflowing” makes compromise easier.

8. Myths and Realities of Polyamory

[47:11–49:26]

• Polyamory is not inherently more “evolved” or mature than monogamy.
  • Quote:
    “It’s no more evolved than monogamy. There’s a lot of polyamorous propaganda about polyamorous relationships being more mature and more evolved and superior to monogamy. And I would say maybe some of them are, but some of them are a hot mess and certainly not superior to anything.”
    — Dr. Eli Sheff, [47:11]
• Success in any relationship style depends less on the structure and more on self-awareness, willingness to learn, and skill-building—“relationships become their hobby.”

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Notable Quotes

• On personal orientation:
  “I have one plug and that’s it. I have tried to bud another plug. I’ve tried to solder one on... I just have the one plug and it’s something I cannot change about myself.”
  — Dr. Eli Sheff, [38:04]

• On family strengths:
  "It is the emotional relationships at the core... From the inside, the emotional relationships between and among people who are not sexual partners, that is the real backbone of the polyamorous family."
  — Dr. Eli Sheff, [24:36]

• On kids’ most common complaint:
  "The number one was that they couldn’t get away with anything if they were trying to sneak out. Somebody was still awake, Somebody was a night owl and was gaming at 3 o'clock in the morning and sees them trying to sneak back in."
  — Dr. Eli Sheff, [33:38]

• On evaluating polyamory for yourself:
  “How does that land with you? Can you share? Lots of us can think, oh, yes, I would like multiple partners. But one of the biggest issues around a successful polyamorous relationship is how do you feel when your partner is out with someone else?”
  — Dr. Eli Sheff, [40:01]

• On what she seeks in a relationship:
  “I crave autonomy in closeness. I like to have a lot of freedom, and I like to give my partner a lot of freedom. If I ever do get in another relationship, I want all their attention, but I want freedom within that attention. Autonomy.”
  — Dr. Eli Sheff, [50:07]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Early encounters with polyamory and the terminology [02:07–09:02]
• First polyamorous community meeting and initial reactions [09:45–13:32]
• Transition from personal experience to research focus [15:39–18:09]
• Long-term study on children in poly families [18:09–23:13]
• Structure of polyamorous families (polycule explanation) [23:13–25:20]
• Benefits for children growing up polyamorous [25:20–29:25]
• Skills developed and disadvantages/stigma [29:33–33:34]
• Critiques and reality checks: "couldn’t get away with anything" [33:34–33:38]
• How relationship skills transfer to adult life [29:25–32:07]
• Dr. Sheff’s own orientation and the “power strip” metaphor [37:08–39:11]
• Guidance on self-reflection for considering polyamory [39:11–41:41]
• Who’s not a good fit for polyamory? [42:10–43:48]
• Mixed-dynamic relationships & compromise tactics [44:00–46:40]
• "Polyamory is not more evolved"—debunking superiority myths [47:11–49:26]
• Personal wishes and closing reflections [49:27–50:43]

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Tone and Takeaways

The conversation is frank, open-hearted, insightful, and gently humorous—rooted in personal experience but focused on research and practical advice. Dr. Sheff consistently emphasizes self-understanding and the need for ongoing self-examination, regardless of relationship configuration. The episode closes with the wish for every listener to find the relationship style that works for them—monogamous, polyamorous, or otherwise:

“Here’s to everyone finding whatever relationship works well for them.”
— Dr. Eli Sheff, [50:39]

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For anyone undecided about polyamory or curious about its effect on family life, this episode offers a thorough, compassionate, and evidence-based lens on love’s many permutations.

Transcript

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[Anna Martin]

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[Dr. Eli Scheff]

love

[Anna Martin]

now and did you fall in love last fella?

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

I love her love was stronger than

[Anna Martin]

anything for the love love and I love you more than anything there's to love love from the New York Times. I'm Anna Martin. This is Modern Love. And today on the show, I'm talking to Dr. Eli Scheff. Dr. Eli is an expert in polyamory. For most of her career, she's been studying the ins and outs of what it means to be in poly relationships. And for the past 30 years, she's been studying the lives of kids who grew up in poly families. Okay, so as a single woman in her early 30s living in Brooklyn, I hear the word poly a lot. It feels like everyone wants to be poly or went on a few dates with someone who's poly or had a poly phase in college even, it feels like we're at peak polysaturation. But Dr. Eli first heard about polyamory in the early 90s when barely anyone even used that word. And once she learned a little bit about it, she had to understand it, not just as a researcher. Dr. Eli had to decide whether polyamory was right for her. In our conversation, Dr. Eli tells me what she's learned from talking to the kids who grew up with polyamorous parents, kids who are now old enough to make their own relationship choices. Plus, she has advice for people trying to figure out if Polly is right for them. Doctor Eli Scheff, welcome to Modern Love.

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

Thanks so much for having me. I'm thrilled to be here.

[Anna Martin]

We're thrilled to have you. How did polyamory first come on your radar?

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

I was 22, and I was in college dating this woman that I was super crushed out on, and she was not that interested in me. So I was kind of heartbroken and thought, all right, I'm gonna just dabble in relationships with men for a little while because it's just so much easier to find a man to date. Like, they'll come on to me. Whereas if I'm gonna find a woman, I've gotta be the one like, doing all the work.

[Anna Martin]

You're like, ah, I'll give men a try. They're easier.

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

Yeah, exactly. And kind of disposable, you know? I was like, I'm gonna just dabble with these dudes until I get back to real relationships with women. And so I meet this guy, and I'm thinking, of course he's disposable. So when he tells me on our first date that he never wants to be monogamous and he never wants to get married, I'm like, whatever, freak, you know, Like, I don't care.

[Anna Martin]

You're like, so I'm in love with this woman. Yeah. Yes.

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

And you were gonna be going away in five minutes, so you and your weird. Whatever. I don't care about.

[Anna Martin]

Can I ask, like, did he use the word monogamous, if you can remember, in that conversation? He did.

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

He was very, very.

[Anna Martin]

He knew what that was. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

But we didn't. I had never heard the word polyamory. He hadn't. He was just like, I don't want monogamy.

[Anna Martin]

I don't want one partner in just one partner.

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

Right. I want multiple partners. And I was like. I mean, I had kind of a negative reaction to it from the get go. Like, okay, that's weird. That doesn't sound good to me. That sounds like a lot of work.

[Anna Martin]

Yeah. I was gonna say. And why did it seem your gut reaction? You know, again, this is many years ago. But what was underneath that feeling?

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

At first, it was just rejection of. That does not sound like fun to me. That sounds like a hot mess. And that is not appealing.

[Anna Martin]

Lots of logistics.

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

Yes. And then as we got to know each other and I fell in love with him, which totally shocked me. I, like, I think many other kind of monogamously oriented people. I was like, well, wait a minute. Does this mean I'm too fat? I'm not. I'm bad in bed. I'm boring. I'm, you know, like, what is the lack in me that you need other partners? And he kept saying, no, no, no, it's not about you. It has nothing to do with you. It would. No matter who he was with, he would need to be with multiple partners. And I was like, really? That just sounds weird.

[Anna Martin]

Bring me into that moment. Like, was there a conversation you remember having with him where you were sort of grappling with this desire of his and this insecurity it was bringing up for you?

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

10 years of conversation. Wow. Around that.

[Anna Martin]

Okay.

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

And he just couldn't seem to let go of it. He brought it up all the time. All the time.

[Anna Martin]

And was he acting on it or was he.

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

No, he really wanted me to find us a woman that we could share. Okay, so we didn't know this term yet at the time, but there's a term for a female male couple that is looking for a woman that they can both be with, and that is unicorn hunter. Because this kind of free floating bisexual woman who's not in other relationships and is just wants to attach herself to a couple and move to their goat farm in North Dakota and raise their children for them. She is so rare that she's mythical.

[Anna Martin]

I'm picking up what you're putting down the goat farm really put it into

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

sort of stark relief.

[Anna Martin]

Yes, I gotcha. I guess. Were there some conversations that made you feel like maybe I should give this a try? Maybe I'm being too resistant. I'm curious about that side.

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

Definitely in part that he wanted a really big family and we had two children. And that was really as much as I felt like I could handle.

[Anna Martin]

You've had kids at this point? Okay, yeah.

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

Yes. And that I didn't want to bear any more children, and I didn't feel like I could manage any more children. I was working on my PhD, teaching at night, trying to write my dissertation during the day with two small children. He would work during the day, take care of the kids at night while I was working.

[Anna Martin]

This is seeming like a lot of.

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

It was a lot. And he was like, you know, what if we could have another woman who really wants to take care of kids? And you could be like the 1950s dad that you just come home from work, read your newspaper, you know, while other people take care of the kids and make food and clean the house and stuff. And so not only is this mythical unicorn woman gonna want to, you know, be equally attracted to both of us, she's gonna have a housecleaning fetish.

[Anna Martin]

When you put it that way. I wanna take us back in time just a bit, maybe even before kids, you know, to sort of the earlier conversations about his desire to have multiple partners. When do you remember hearing the word polyamory for the first time? Cause you said he wasn't using that word. When did you first hear that word?

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

So I was driving home from grad school in the snow on this really slick road. I'm feeling kind of nervous. So I'm listening to National Public Radio as I always did when I was in the car and the host was interviewing this person, Ryam Nearing.

[Anna Martin]

Oh, you remember the name?

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

Yeah. Oh, yeah. She's a big deal in the polyamorous community. And especially at the time she had started this organization called Loving More. And they were talking to her about her organization and how this organization was having, like, an open house kind of a meeting in a public room in the library that anyone who wanted information could come to. And I was just like, oh, my God, that's it. That's the thing he's been talking about.

[Anna Martin]

Do you remember how she defined polyamory at the time? Like, what made. What about that word and its definition clicked for you? Like, oh, my God. That's what my partner has been talking about this whole time.

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

Loving openly and honestly. Loving multiple people at the same time, kind of having multiple partner relationships, but not hiding it from anyone.

[Anna Martin]

Gotcha.

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

And that's exactly what he had been talking about.

[Anna Martin]

So you were like, you're mentioning a kind of. Or you're describing rather a kind of like, aha moment. Like, oh, my God, there's a name for this thing that he's been talking about and that we've been grappling with as a couple. Did it make you more curious about it?

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

Absolutely. And especially hearing that they were having this meeting, public meeting, coming up. So I was like. I went home and I was like, honey, we've gotta go to this thing.

[Anna Martin]

You and your partner?

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

Yes. Because this is driving me nuts. You know, I feel so kind of riled up about it all the time. And I wanna find out from people, how do they do this? How do they manage this in their lives without just feeling awful all the time? Because it really was. I was feeling just awful about it that he wanted these other people and wouldn't let it go. He kept bringing it up over and over. So I was like, all right, let's just go talk to these folks and find out what's going on.

[Anna Martin]

You come home, you're like, we gotta go to this meetup. Tell me about it. I'm so curious.

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

It's this big room in a library stuffed with people. Like, standing room only. I know. I was shocked how many people were there.

[Public Service Announcer]

And.

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

And there's people talking about having been in relationships for 20 and 30 years, very happy relationships together with multiple partners. Yes. And I'm like, how does that not just kill your heart? Like, they're like. It's the opposite. Their heart opens and blooms with all of these additional people. They really do experience it as more love.

[Anna Martin]

And were you, like. Were you just listening? Were you asking questions? What was your presence in that? In that meeting, in that room, during

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

the meeting itself, I only listened. And then after the meeting, I went up to a person who later participated in my study, and I was just like, you know, you say that you're so happy, and when I think about this, it just feels terrible to me. Like, how do you manage that? And of course, her answer was long and complicated and hard to kind of put into a nugget, but basically she was like, I get a lot out of it. I get it. Sure, it has comes with some costs, but she said it benefits her far more than the costs associated with.

[Anna Martin]

Also, I think is a very open hearted question for you to ask a stranger, you know, who you've just seen talk in a room to go up and be like, listen, when I think about this, I feel, you know, hurt and scared. Me paraphrasing what you said, you know, like, that's a quite vulnerable thing to approach someone with, I think.

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

Thanks. You know, I just. Interestingly enough, I guess the polyamorous people in general, sure, they're very used to talking about their feelings. They're used to having challenging conversations.

[Anna Martin]

Sure.

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

They're used to kind of looking inside and seeing what part of this is insecurity on my part. What part is, you know, like, they're introspective folks, so it wasn't unusual for them to have this conversation. Yeah, it certainly felt exposing to me, but I was fine with it.

[Anna Martin]

After this first meeting, are you like, well, that's it, I'm not going anymore? Are you like, I gotta know more?

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

Not only I've gotta know more, but these people, these humans are delightful.

[Anna Martin]

Did your feelings about polyamory start to change?

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

Absolutely. I felt much less afraid of it.

[Anna Martin]

Huh.

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

It seemed much less kind of, I don't know, sinister is the word that occurs to me, and I hate to use that word because it makes it sound so scary, but it definitely felt very heavy to me to be caught in this. I really want to be with this man. Like, he's really important to me, but I really don't want to do this thing that's really important to him. And that felt very uncomfortable. And the more I came to learn about polyamory, the less threatening it felt and the more comfortable with it I became. And I kind of wondered, is this something I would want?

[Anna Martin]

We'll be right back.

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[Anna Martin]

Well, let's get into the study. So it's like at a certain point, going to these poly meetups. Polyamorous meetups. You know, it started off as for your personal exploration, trying to understand your relationship, but at a certain point, you decide to actually study this, like, write your dissertation on it. Tell me how that happened.

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

So for about three years, I was a civilian, you know, more approaching it. How does this impact my own life? But by then I was in graduate school and I was learning all of these research methods. And one of the research methods classes, I had said, do an interview with someone, practice interviewing skills. So I interviewed a polyamorous person, and the class was like, oh, my God, this is amazing. This is your dissertation right here. And I was like, really? Oh, but nobody's done research on it yet, you know, and at the time, I wasn't aware there were two other researchers looking into this, and that was it worldwide. And none of us knew about each other. At first, we all thought we were the only person doing this. And we, I mean, the community had been around, but the word hadn't been around for as long. And. And now in 1996, what year is it? 2026.

[Anna Martin]

2026. So just, you know, 30 years.

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

Yes.

[Anna Martin]

Or whatever.

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

Now in 2026. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Polyamory and other forms of consensual non monogamy are fairly well known. People know they exist. But in 1996, it wasn't as much of a concept. It wasn't as widely known.

[Anna Martin]

I think it's such a good reminder that this is a word we hear. You know, I hear casually as a single 30 something in Brooklyn, you know, like all the time. But at the time, this was not spoken about. Some people didn't even know the word for this. But you were here studying people who were living this way, and you decide to focus your study of polyamory, specifically on kids raised in polyamory?

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

Not at that point, no.

[Anna Martin]

Oh, gotcha. Okay. Not.

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

Not yet. I started out talking to the adults and the method I chose was ethnography.

[Public Service Announcer]

Sure.

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

Which is primarily interviewing, but also participant observation, meaning going places, embedding, and just hanging out. Exactly.

[Anna Martin]

But eventually you decide to focus a long term study on the kids in polyamorous families. And I'm really curious about that choice. Why did you decide you were interested in. In studying children of poly families?

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

Partially. It was when I would talk about my research findings at conferences or other places, people would say, well, how does this impact the children?

[Anna Martin]

Right.

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

People kept asking about it and I wondered, how are those kids doing? What is happening with them?

[Anna Martin]

How did you set up the study? How many participants were there?

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

I would say it's kind of hard to count because some people participated only once and some people let me interview them multiple times across the years. So I'm gonna say about 213 people.

[Anna Martin]

Wow.

[Public Service Announcer]

Okay.

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

And about 33 of them were children under 18, which are now. Some of them are in their 30s.

[Anna Martin]

How often did you talk to these kids as the study went on? Cause it's now a 30 year long study.

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

Some of them I've spoken to four or five times. Some of them I've only interviewed once. Some of them I hung out with quite a bit before I even interviewed them in that kind of participant observation phase of going to campouts and things with polyamorous families and kind of observing how the children would have their own little social structure. You know, they would play in a group and tell the adults, okay, we're going over here now. And the adults would be like, okay, come back in 20 minutes.

[Anna Martin]

And you'd be like, I'm going with those kids cause I'm studying those.

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

Yes, exactly.

[Anna Martin]

What kinds of questions were you asking? What were you curious to know?

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

I would ask them all sorts of different things. How it felt to have multiple, you know, multiple adults in their lives, what those adults did for them, how kind of interacting with their peers, if it was ever an issue with that. And I would always ask them three different questions. One, did they think they would be polyamorous themselves when they grew up? And most of them said, I'm not sure. You know, kind of it depends on who my partner is and what they want. One was, if you could choose, would you have chosen a different family to grow up in? And all of the children said no. They learned so much from this family. Even though it was hard sometimes and even though some of the things they maybe wouldn't replicate in their own lives, it really said to me that these kids had their needs very well met. That their need for attention, affection, structure, you know, all the, and that's not even talking about the practical needs of food and shelter, you know, clothing.

[Anna Martin]

And then what was the, what was the third question you would always ask?

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

In addition to many other questions I would always ask, so are there any of your parents, partners that you really miss that you know, your parents broke up with and you really miss them? And finally one kid, you know, you ask that all the time and you seem like you have an agenda around that. I do miss people. I miss all sorts of people. Very low down on the list are my parents partners. And I was like, not only you are right. I totally had an agenda coming from the outside thinking, oh, this must be a big impact on these kids lives, having parents, partners kind of leave when the parents break up. And the kid was like, that's coming from you, that's not coming from us.

[Anna Martin]

Interesting.

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

Wow. I know.

[Anna Martin]

Was that sort of across the board people were like, you know, they do leave. And maybe I'm sad, but that sort of missing, that deep missing of the partner was not so much a factor in general for these kids. I'm surprised by that, yes.

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

In part because the parents put a lot of effort into having the children. If the children were attached to someone, that relationship could outlast the romantic relationship between the parents. And I saw that so much in these families. It was the non sexual relationships that made the biggest difference.

[Anna Martin]

I wanna make sure that we understand because I, I, it's really interesting what you're saying and I almost, I wish I had like a flowchart, but this is a podcast and largely non visual. So maybe you could describe for me like how are these poly families generally organized? Because you're saying non sexual partners. So it's like two parents, biological parents, and then what? Each parent has their own partner. Talk to me about the sort of structure of these poly families.

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

Frequently there will be. So it often is the biological parents who are together. And frequently, when they very first come to polyamorous relating, many of them are coming thinking, we want. Much like my partner, my ex did, we want to be all together in one relationship.

[Anna Martin]

Right.

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

Many people realize that doesn't work that well. Like you may be attracted to someone who may be attracted to you, but it doesn't mean they're attracted to your partner.

[Anna Martin]

Ah, yeah.

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

Or that you are always having kind of a three person relationship. That really what I find is that many people have their sexual relationships in dyads. Like two person sexual relationship.

[Anna Martin]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

But the social relationships are knit together in a way. The polyamorous people call that a polycule. Like a. Like a molecule.

[Anna Martin]

Yeah.

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

Only a polycule.

[Anna Martin]

Polycule. This is a word again that we hear. So we're talking about this idea that kids can maintain emotional relationships with their parents. Partners, even if the parent and the partner break up, Correct?

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

Yes, absolutely. And perhaps even more importantly, that it is the emotional relationships at the core of the polyamorous family that to the outside people, it's the sex that really stands out. Because that's what distinguishes a polyamorous family from a monogamous family is that the parents can have sex with other people. Yeah. And so that outside of that kind of arrangement, the sex really stands out. But from the inside, the emotional relationships between and among people who are not sexual partners, that is the real backbone of the polyamorous family.

[Anna Martin]

Can I ask in like a zoomed out way, like, what did kids tell you was the best thing? Some of the best things about growing

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

up in poly families, it really depended on their age.

[Anna Martin]

Sure.

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

When they're little, they think all of the attention is great. When they're tweens, which is like 9 to 12, maybe they think the practicality of getting a ride or one kid. Yeah. Is makes. It's really nice for them. One kid was also telling me how he had gone to his mom and been like, mom, I. I want some money to go to the store and get some candy. And the mom was like, no, did you do your chores? You know, like, I'm not giving you money. He goes to mom, sweetie, mom, sweetie is like, I have $10 and a Snickers. Do you need a ride to the store? Because the partners.

[Anna Martin]

That is so sweet.

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

I know, so sweet. The partners don't wanna be like the heavy part of parenting. They wanna Be like the fun aunt or uncle kind of where they, they don't wanna, you know, deal with the kids bad grades or something. Cause they kinda don't have to, you know, clean their room. Exactly. Whoa.

[Anna Martin]

Oh, I love that. So like when you're a tween and you're looking to perhaps get your way or bend the all, it's nice to have a person that's like, Yeah, I got 10 bucks. Want a snicker? Like it's nice to have a person that's not going to be super disciplinary. And then when teens. What did teens or young adults say was the best part of growing up in poly families?

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

They found that the emotional and communication skills they learned in their families and the ability to be open minded and interact with a wide range of people really helped them in their lives to kind of navigate a constantly changing world and to be able to kind of shift and see different angles and talk to new people in a way that they didn't see some of their peers successfully navigating. Like especially I remember this one kid went to college and got a dorm mate and his dorm mate had had a very sheltered upbring. So this kid could not manage his own schedule, could not get up and get to class on time, was not doing homework because there was no one telling him to do it. He had come from this very kind of sheltered, highly directive household and he came out into the world and just floundered. The child from the polyamorous family had come from a much more. Let's think about it, let's talk about it. What are your boundaries? How do they fit with the family's boundaries? Much more self responsibility to an age appropriate extent. They weren't like, okay you four year old, go grill us some steaks. But they were like, okay you four year old, you know, if you don't wear shoes, your feet are gonna hurt.

[Commercial Announcer]

Huh.

[Anna Martin]

It's like the communication that's necessary for a polyamorous family to work kind of seeps into the kids consciousness and like becomes a way that they operate in the world, interface with other people. In of course, clearly, as we can see in this dorm room example, like a really beneficial way, like this person can talk about what they need, prioritize. I mean, and of course, let's just say kids who grew up in monogamous families can also, you know, have boundaries and communicate or whatever. But the fact that this is just a sort of de facto way of communicating between all of the members of a Polycule.

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

Whoa.

[Anna Martin]

How else were they finding that Their background influenced the way they moved through the world or their own relationships.

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

In part, it was their ability to interact with all sorts of different people who weren't like either themselves or the people they grew up with, because they grew up interacting with a wider range of people, not only multiple adults, but also frequently members of the polyamorous community.

[Anna Martin]

Interesting. Yeah.

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

So they had a high communication upbringing, which translated into being able to talk to their professors at college, for example, without feeling incredible anxiety about, oh, my God, I've got to talk to this adult. You know, like, they could go in and talk to their professors in office hours or something. They could make new friends in a way that if they had lived there for a while and had established this community and then they got sick, for example.

[Anna Martin]

Yeah.

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

They had people they could call on to bring them soup or, you know, Kleenex or whatever.

[Anna Martin]

Like natural community makers.

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

Yeah, exactly. Oh, I love that. Yes. Natural community makers. Because they're coming from this kind of community based, high discussion origin and that they didn't necessarily love all those family meetings when they were 13, they got really sick of the constant discussion. They were tired to death of the family meetings. But looking back on navigating, for example, who does the chores moving forward in life. Right. If we look statistically at reasons for divorce right now, conflict over unpaid labor is among the top three. So coming from a family where the family could discuss, we're having some hard feelings about this unpaid labor. How do we address this? Let's make a chore wheel that everyone has a different chore and the kids were sick to death of the talk about the chore wheel. But then fast forward 15 years, it's really beneficial. Yes. They know, first of all, that they should not put up with a partner who expects them to do all the unpaid labor. And second of all, that there are ways to negotiate. How do we spread this unpaid labor around? Besides gender, of course, everything, you know,

[Anna Martin]

nothing can be all good or all bad. So I'll just, on the other hand, say, what were some of the things you heard from kids that were like the worst things about growing up in a poly family?

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

There were some things that stood out to me as greater disadvantages.

[Anna Martin]

Sure.

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

Such as the stigma of being in a family that other people look at and think, that's a weird family. I had expected to hear a lot more of that, and they did certainly experience that to some extent. But because polyamorous families, especially at that time, but even now, they often fly under the social radar. A lot of kids have multiple Parents because their bio parents divorced and remarried other people or split up and remarried. So the presence of multiple adults is not unusual at all.

[Anna Martin]

Huh. I'm also thinking, just from my own teenage experience, that there's a benefit to having, you know, multiple parents you can ask for 10 bucks from or whatever. But there's a really negative spin to that where it's like when I was saying I was doing one thing, but I was really going to a party. If I had to keep that lie going to multiple adults and not just like two or whatever, that would have been tough for me. Like, I. I feel like there would have been, like, a thing where, when I'm a teen, like, having a lot of parents around actually wouldn't be a good thing anymore.

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

And you nailed it. That was their number one complaint.

[Anna Martin]

Was it really?

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

The number one was that they couldn't get away with anything if they were trying to sneak out. Somebody was still awake, Somebody was a night owl and was gaming at 3 o' clock in the morning and sees them trying to sneak back in.

[Anna Martin]

Oh, my God. You know, these kids, you've been talking to some of them for 30 years. You know, not all the time, but you've been checking in with them over the course of 30 years. Have you gotten attached to some of them? I know this is like your job and you're a scientist and these types of things, but, like, have you developed affection for these kids?

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

Absolutely. One of the kids that I know, kind of the best. I have watched her from the time she was a small child to now she is partnered and has her own baby. Wow. But just so sweet to see her go from about that age, about four when I met her, to now she's an adult. She's, you know, got this, got this partner. She is in a polyamorous relationship, actually, with her husband that she just adores, and they are doing great.

[Anna Martin]

So, Eli, then you talk to the kid, and now you have the grandchildren of polyamorous families. Correct.

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

That kid is too small for me to talk to, but I would love to.

[Anna Martin]

In five years. In five years. Wow. That's the future of your study. Stay with us.

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This podcast is supported by Ollie, your wellness partner for all things back to school. Ollie supports moms with a lineup of expertly formulated women's wellness products, like a multivitamin with essential vitamins and minerals to help keep her doing it all. Head back to class with the number one Gummy supplement brand and stock up on Ollie.com today. That's O L L-Y dot com. These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease. This podcast is supported by BetterHelp. Have you ever had so many tabs open that your computer starts slowing down? Life can feel like that too. BetterHelp's 2026 State of Stigma report found that 74% of Americans believe society still discourages Ask Help. Therapy can help you sort through what's taking up space and quietly affecting you. With BetterHelp, connect with a licensed therapist online and switch anytime. Maybe it's time to close a few tabs. Visit betterhelp.com newyorktimes to get started.

[Anna Martin]

This message comes from Betterment. Dan Egan, VP of Behavioral Finance and Investing, explains how Betterment takes the time consuming work out of smart investing.

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

I was doing all of these things that were pretty straightforward to implement.

[Anna Martin]

I just needed a special spend my time doing them.

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

Betterment automates those same good practices so

[Anna Martin]

that I know I'm doing portfolio management

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

and goal based planning without me having to spend hours of my life doing it.

[Anna Martin]

Learn [e-mail] investing involves risk performance not guaranteed. So you know when you start writing your dissertation, which again starts with interviewing polyamorous adults, you still are undecided on the question of your relationship. But then as you continue to do this work, where did you land?

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

Well, I would say that as an intellectual things that frighten me. I feel like if I can understand won't scare me anymore. And actually the idea of polyamory doesn't scare me anymore. But it took me 30 years to realize that being afraid of something is different than not wanting to do it.

[Commercial Announcer]

Whoa.

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

I'm not scared of it anymore, but I still don't wanna do it. When I'm in love with someone, I have literally no interest in other people. Even if I have the full permission to go out with other people, it's like I can't. What I think of it as. You know those power strips?

[Anna Martin]

Yes.

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

Where that they have multiple plugs?

[Anna Martin]

Yes. Uh huh, uh huh.

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

I have one plug and that's it. And I have tried to bud another plug. I've tried to solder one on, I've tried to expand my plug, do an extension cord.

[Anna Martin]

Yeah, whatever. Exactly.

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

Like I just have the one plug and it's something I cannot change about myself. And I think the people with multiple plugs, that is something they can't change about themselves. I think most people have an indeterminate number of plugs. I think that's where the majority of humans fall.

[Anna Martin]

We're all just a bunch of power strips running around. And to overextend your wonderful metaphor or visual, do you think that someone might have one plug for one part of their life, but then perhaps have a few more plugs later on? Like, can the number of plugs change?

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

Absolutely. I think for some people it can. And I found I have different plugs for romance and sex. My. My sex power strip has more plugs than my romance power strip.

[Anna Martin]

I think this question of, like, is polyamory, for me, is one that a lot of people have. And so I would love to get your insight as to how we can begin to sort of ask this question to ourselves. What we should consider. What are the questions someone should ask themselves if they're considering polyamory?

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

I think one of the main questions a lot of people start with do I want multiple partners? And that, I think, is a smart one. But it's not. It's only half of the equation. Not only do you want multiple partners, but imagine yourself at home with the kids, folding laundry, making Mac and cheese, while your partner is in Mexico at a beach resort with their sweetie.

[Anna Martin]

Huh?

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

How does that land with you? Like, can you share? Lots of us can think, oh, yes, I would like multiple partners. But one of the biggest issues around a successful polyamorous relationship is how do you feel when your partner is out with someone else?

[Anna Martin]

That is a really interesting reframing of where we should put the focus. It's like, yeah, of course, you know, like, I'd love to have another partner, but it's like, how would you feel if your partner was out with their sweetie? Are there qualities that make someone a good fit for polyamory and the converse? Are there qualities that make someone a bad fit for polyamory?

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

For this, I really did a deep dive into the relationship satisfaction literature. For non monogamy in general. There's a few things, characteristics that people who like novelty tend to be better suited for non monogamy. People who have what they call a faster life history. That's a social science term, meaning they've probably moved around a lot. They've probably had a whole bunch of different kinds of jobs.

[Anna Martin]

Interesting.

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

Yeah, they have. They started dating younger and they've dated more people. Yeah, they're more likely to be interested in polyamory or non monogamy than the people who have never left their hometown, who like to have one job and really stick with it. You know, kind of a more

[Anna Martin]

steady, steady way of life. Yeah.

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

Yes, exactly. And not that any either of those are better than the other, but just what kind of wiring tends to make you enjoy polyamory?

[Anna Martin]

We're talking about the kinds of people that will be drawn to polyamory. That would make for sort of a good, as it were, sort of polyamorous partner. But I wonder, on the flip side of that, is there a type of person who just should not do polyamory at all?

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

Absolutely.

[Anna Martin]

Okay.

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

I think about jealousy now as, like, nodes in the brain, kind of. And some people have very few of those nodes, and they get activated by very few things. That person is a much better fit for an open relationship. If people know themselves and they know that they get really jealous about a lot of things and it's very painful for them, then trying to share a partner with someone else might not be a good choice. The other thing is it might vary by relationship. So if they're in a relationship where everything is really good and it's this one thing, they're having a mismatch around, but. So they're having a mismatch around exclusivity or openness, but in other ways. They're on the same page about whether or not they want children, how to spend money, religion, work, free time. You know, if they click on all those other things and this is the only thing that they're kind of out of alignment on, it's much easier to manage than if they're out of alignment on exclusivity or openness, as well as disagree about whether they should have kids or not and have conflicting religious beliefs, and one of them wants to save and one of them wants to spend, then it's gonna be the kiss of death for that relationship.

[Anna Martin]

I mean, I. I wonder, like, when you. When your partner. When you were married to this guy, when you're with this guy who wanted to have multiple partners and you were resistant, he was more into it than you were.

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

By far.

[Anna Martin]

By far, yes. This might be a situation other people find themselves in. One partner is more interested in polyamory than the other. And what is your advice on how to navigate that sort of divide, as it were,

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

generally, in that kind of, what I think of as a mixed dynamic, where one person wants an open relationship and another wants an exclusive relationship, generally, if they can meet in the middle, where it's gonna be probably more open than the exclusive person wants, but more closed than the polyamorous person wants,

[Anna Martin]

what would that look like?

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

So for some people, it looks like a hall pass, for example, that they can't have Lovers in their home environment. But if they go on a trip, they could hook up with someone in Jamaica and not be in trouble for it. As long as don't bring any sexually transmitted infections home. Don't get anybody pregnant. Nobody gets to move in for another. Folks, I know one of them really wants an open relationship. Another one is certain that they want exclusivity. They have an agreement that they are exclusive, except for this one convention that the open person goes to.

[Anna Martin]

Interesting.

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

And at that convention, they can hook up with other people, but not outside of that for other people. They can't find that middle ground. If someone is truly monogamous and not only wants monogamy for themselves, but wants to be in a monogamous relationship with their partner, that might not work. But what I found is when the monogamous person in that setting, when their needs are filled to overflowing, it's much easier for them to say, okay, honey, I don't wanna connect with anybody else, but you go out and do your thing, I'm gonna go do my own thing. The monogamous person isn't sitting there in the dark, chewing on their nails, freezing and sad, but they are actively engaged in something else. And they feel like they get enough attention and affection and sex and goodies, emotional yumminess from their partner. It's much easier for them to give their partner room to go be with other people.

[Anna Martin]

That is so interesting. It's like compromise where possible. And if not, then maybe it is not a fit and we're in the place where one person has one plug and there are multiple plugs and it just might not. It might not work. I mean, I guess one maybe last question is, like, is there like one thing? If you were to say one thing to people that they should know before trying polyamory, like the thing in all caps, what would it be?

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

I would say it's no more evolved than monogamy. And there's a lot of kind of polyamorous propaganda about polyamorous relationships being more mature and more evolved and superior to monogamy. And I would say maybe some of them are, but some of them are a hot mess and certainly not superior to anything. There are monogamous people who are quite insightful and evolved, having very mature relationships, and there are polyamorous people having very mature relationships. There are monogamous people who are small and grasping and jealous, and there are polyamorous people who are small and grasping. And their jealousy may express in a different way, you know, but according to polyamorous Propaganda. It is really, everyone should be polyamorous. Could be. And if they would just put their big girl panties on, they could also be polyamorous. And I think that is not true. I think some people, you can be fully evolved and still not have the spoons or the time or the space in your life for multiple partners. That the people who do best in polyamory not only want multiple partners themselves, but they look at relationships as a skill that they can learn and get better at communicating, at meeting their partner's needs, at understanding their own boundaries, almost. So that relationships become their hobby.

[Anna Martin]

Huh? Coming at the heels of discussing how well adjusted, by and large, these kids of polyamorous families are, like, I just, again, think it's really important to tether ourselves to, like. And yet still it's not more evolved. It's like. And it strikes me that, you know, one of our foremost experts on polyamory, you are someone who's wired for exclusivity. You know what I mean? Like, you understand it so well and still, like, this is not the way that your brain and your heart works.

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

Precisely.

[Anna Martin]

Okay, I'm gonna close us here. Dr. Eli, when you were younger, what did you imagine your love life, your romantic life would. Would look like?

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

I thought I would be a monogamous lesbian. And it turns out I am primarily a lesbian. I had that one dude thing, and, I mean, I'm single right now, but if I ever get in another serious relationship, it's gonna be monogamous.

[Anna Martin]

Future partner, if you are even interested. What are you looking for? Knowing all that you know about the ways that different types of relationships can work, what are you looking for?

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

I crave autonomy in closeness.

[Anna Martin]

Oof.

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

I like to have a lot of freedom, and I like to give my partner a lot of freedom. If I ever do get in another relationship, I want all their attention, but I want freedom within that attention. Autonomy.

[Anna Martin]

Autonomy in closeness. Put that on a T shirt. I'm looking for autonomy. And if you want, I hope you find that. I hope you find autonomy.

[Public Service Announcer]

Thank you.

[Anna Martin]

And I hope I find it too. Actually, I'll just note.

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

Here's to everyone finding whatever relationship works well for them.

[Anna Martin]

No better way to close the interview. Dr. Eli Scheff, thank you so much for this conversation.

[Dr. Eli Scheff]

Thank you for having me. I really enjoyed chatting with you.

[Anna Martin]

The modern love team is Davis Land, Elisa Gutierrez, Lynn Levy, Reva Goldberg, and Sarah Curtis. This episode was produced by Sarah Curtis. It was edited by Lynn Levy and Davis Land. Our mix engineer was Sophia Landman. Original music in this episode by Rowan Niemisto and Marion Lozano, Pat McCusker and Dan Powell. Dan also composed our theme music. The Modern Love column is edited by Daniel Jones, and Mia Lee is the editor of Modern Love Projects. If you'd like to submit an essay or a tiny love story to the New York Times, we've got the instructions in our show Notes. I'm Anna Martin. Thanks for listening.

[Commercial Announcer]

Foreign.

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This podcast is supported by Ollie, your wellness partner for all things back to school. Ollie supports moms with a lineup of expertly formulated women's wellness products like a multivitamin with essential vitamins and minerals to help keep her doing it all. Ish. Head back to class with the number one gummy supplement brand and stock up on ollie.com today. That's o l l dash com these statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.