Modern Love – "Malala Thought She’d Never Fall in Love"

Host: Anna Martin (The New York Times)
Guest: Malala Yousafzai
Date: October 15, 2025

Overview

In this heartfelt and candid episode, Anna Martin sits down with global icon Malala Yousafzai to discuss her new memoir, Finding My Way. Though internationally revered for her activism and bravery since surviving a Taliban assassination attempt at 15, Malala’s newest work explores her journey toward ordinary experiences—making friends, building a personal identity, learning to love, and recognizing her own vulnerabilities. The conversation traces how Malala defined herself beyond headlines, navigated university life, faced the shadows of trauma, and unexpectedly found—and redefined—romantic love.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Another Memoir? (02:33–04:27)

• Malala’s Perspective: After years of public visibility, Malala wanted to reintroduce herself as more than her trauma and activism, sharing the coming-of-age experiences most young women navigate.
• Quote:

  "I wanted to reintroduce myself beyond those titles, beyond those headlines...Activism is the mission of my life. But, you know, I’m more than that as well." — Malala (03:26)

2. Learning to Be Ordinary: College Life, Friendship, and Fitting In (04:55–12:04)

• Navigating Social Anxiety: Malala describes entering Oxford as a shy student desperate to make friends and finally live some semblance of a “normal” youth.
• Outfit Dilemmas: Her mother wanted her to dress traditionally, so Malala covertly Googled, "Selena Gomez 2017 casual outfits" and swapped shalwar kameez for jumpers and jeans.
  • Quote:

    "My search on Google at the time was Selena Gomez 2017. Casual outfits." — Malala (09:38)

• Friendship at Oxford: University friends discussed coursework, vented about tutors, skipped lectures—giving Malala a cherished sense of belonging.

3. Living Under Scrutiny: Security, Freedom, and Secret Adventures (12:04–20:48)

• Security Presence: Malala’s security detail was ever-present, even at parties. Friends were initially puzzled by the mysterious men trailing her.
• Rooftop Climbing: Malala’s most “reckless” decision—sneaking onto the Oxford college rooftops at midnight—became a symbol of reclaiming her sense of adventure and control:
  • Quote:

    "It was a moment where I felt so close to nature, so close to myself. I could hear my heart. And it was just a magical, beautiful moment." — Malala (15:27)

• Rediscovery vs. Discovery: College helped her reconnect with the daring, joyous version of her pre-attack self.

4. Trauma Returns: Panic Attacks and Embracing Mental Health (23:26–32:43)

• Unexpected Flashbacks: Years after her physical recovery, smoking a bong with friends triggered her first panic attack, causing her to relive the shooting moment and suffer further episodes.
  • Quote:

    "I thought the recovery is done. But many years later ... it made me feel like everything was coming back as if it had never gone." — Malala (23:31)

• Therapy: Initially skeptical, she learned to accept trauma as a permanent aspect of her life—"you have to accept and embrace it."
• Bravery Redefined: Malala reflected on feeling embarrassed for not living up to the “brave” label, but concludes:
  • Quote:

    "It is still brave when you are embarrassed, when you are scared, when you are afraid. But you still get up and do what you believe in. I think that is true bravery." — Malala (32:23)

5. Romance, Love, and Cultural Expectations (34:18–54:31)

Early Attitudes (34:39–37:50)

• The "Coach" Mentality: Malala was an advice-giver for friends’ love lives, but abstained herself due to personal insecurities (post-injury appearance) and cultural pressure against dating.
• Quote:

  "I just thought, like, nobody would like me and all of that. But that’s just a whole different thinking…in our culture in Pakistan, girls are not allowed to date." — Malala (36:32)

From “Service, Not Romance” to Finding Love (37:18–41:13)

• Self-Image: For years, Malala thought of her body as “meant for service, not romance.”
• Falling in Love (Asar): Meeting her future husband at Oxford, she was instantly drawn in. Despite skepticism—her activism, the pressure of marriage, and her own aversion to the institution—she was transformed by the relationship.
• Cultural Nuances: Dating and marriage in Pakistan ("my mom put so many restrictions...you have to be six feet apart!") and the weight of family expectations.

Relationship & Redefining Marriage (41:13–54:31)

• Why Asar?

  "He seemed to be this kind, sweet, and the best guy I had ever seen...but I started loving myself as well. And that’s the difference he made in my life." — Malala (49:36)

• Challenges: Malala grilled Asar with tough questions about values, gender roles, and expectations before marriage.
• Marriage’s Meaning Now: She remains a critic of the institution, given its oppressive history, but strives to redefine it as a partnership of equals based on mutual respect and love.
  • Quote:

    "It’s about redefining what marriage is...They make lives more fun for each other…It is different when the partner actually has good values and has a common understanding...It’s about us sharing this journey of life ahead together." — Malala (53:07)

• Refusal of Labels: She and Asar call each other “bestie” instead of “husband” and “wife” outside formal settings, rejecting traditional connotations.

6. Ongoing Journey: Finding Her Way (54:31–57:28)

• Active, Not Finished: The title, Finding My Way, is intentional—her path is ongoing, full of surprises, mistakes, and continued growth.
  • Quote:

    "Finding My Way is a true reflection of what the journey is actually like...You do not have the answer immediately, but it is embracing those moments and accepting the emotions and the feelings you’re going through." — Malala (54:51)

• Advice to Young Malala:

  "Girl, read this book. There is so much ahead of you...It’s okay if you don’t know all the answers. It’s okay if you get scared. That’s all fine. You will find your way through it." — Malala (56:43)

Notable Quotes & Moments

• Becoming Herself Beyond the Headlines:

  "I was known in the public eye as a girl who was shot by the Taliban at age 15...I wanted to show that now I have experienced much more." — Malala (03:26)

• College Antics:

  "Somebody wants me to climb the rooftop. I will. Late night parties. I will. Yeah, I think it’s—I thought that college would be just this limited time of my life where I get to do anything I want." — Malala (07:15)

• The Value of Friendship:

  "They made Oxford life more fun for me...they made me feel like I was their friend. And I felt so secure with them not being judged. And yeah, this was the most precious thing from college." — Malala (11:41)

• On Her First Panic Attack:

  "I could not understand time or the surrounding anymore...I thought I was reliving the attack...I had many panic attacks after that. My body would be sweating, I would be shaking, my heart would be throbbing. I could not sleep." — Malala (24:36)

• On Her Relationship With Asar:

  "Whenever I was with him, I felt that I was loved. And he made me feel like the present me...But with him, I felt like I could grow as a person." — Malala (44:15)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Why Write a New Memoir: 02:33–04:27
• College Life & Making Friends: 04:55–12:04
• Security Detail & “Normal” Fun: 12:04–20:48
• Panic Attacks and Trauma: 23:26–32:43
• Dating, Cultural Pressures, Insecurity: 34:18–38:18
• Meeting Asar & Falling in Love: 41:13–44:15
• Love, Marriage & Self-Acceptance: 49:36–54:31
• Title Significance & Advice to Her Younger Self: 54:31–57:28

Tone & Language

Witty, honest, and deeply personal, this conversation shows Malala as both vulnerable and resilient—a young woman learning to balance her extraordinary public life with private yearning for joy, adventure, love, and self-acceptance. Anna Martin’s empathetic questioning and Malala’s openness create a relatable, moving listening experience.

For Further Reference

Malala’s new memoir, Finding My Way, expands on the stories and insights heard in this conversation, continuing her journey of self-discovery and advocacy for young women everywhere.