Podcast Summary: Modern Love – ‘Materialists’ Director Celine Song Believes in Love at First Conversation
Episode Release Date: June 18, 2025
Host: Anna Martin
Guest: Celine Song, Director and Writer
Introduction
In this heartfelt episode of Modern Love, host Anna Martin engages in a profound conversation with acclaimed director and writer Celine Song. Known for her evocative storytelling in films like Past Lives, Song delves into her latest project, Materialists, and shares her intricate perspectives on love, relationships, and the often perplexing nature of finding true connection.
Exploring Materialists and Personal Experience as a Matchmaker
Anna Martin opens the discussion by highlighting Celine Song's ability to craft compelling love stories, referencing her poignant film Past Lives. Transitioning to her new movie, Materialists, Anna describes the narrative centered around Lucy, a successful matchmaker portrayed by Dakota Johnson, who ironically struggles to find love herself.
Celine Song reveals her personal stint as a matchmaker in her mid-20s, which served as inspiration for Materialists. She explains:
“Love is easy. Is it? I find it to be the most difficult thing in the world. That's because we can't help it just walks into our lives sometimes. [02:20]”
—Celine Song
Song's brief six-month experience highlighted the contrast between her professional aptitude in matchmaking and her personal challenges in navigating love. She emphasizes the discrepancy between understanding the logistics of dating versus the mystifying essence of falling in love.
Themes of Love vs. Dating
A significant portion of the conversation revolves around the distinction between dating and love. Celine articulates a central theme of Materialists:
“Love is very easy, and that's what's the most... that's the hardest thing about it. As in, you don't have control. And of course, in modern world, all we want to do is control. [...] the stock market of dating.”
—Celine Song [09:34]
She critiques the modern obsession with enhancing one's appeal in the dating scene—through appearances, status, and other materialistic pursuits—while neglecting the unpredictable and uncontrollable nature of true love. This juxtaposition underlines the film's exploration of how individuals often fail to see beyond superficial attributes to the genuine connections that define lasting relationships.
Reading of “My View from the Margins” by Louise Rafkin
Midway through the episode, the focus shifts to a poignant essay titled “My View from the Margins” by Louise Rafkin, which Celine Song reads aloud. The essay narrates Rafkin's experiences as a relationship columnist who interviews couples about their love stories while grappling with her own uncertainties about love. Key excerpts include:
“I can't see it, but I know it must be out there somewhere. [15:08]”
—Celine Song reading Rafkin’s essay
The essay underscores the enigmatic nature of love, portraying it as an elusive force that remains incomprehensible despite extensive observation and analysis.
Celine Song’s Personal Love Story: Love at First Conversation
Following the essay, Celine Song shares her own journey of falling in love, which she describes as "love at first conversation" rather than the clichéd "love at first sight." She recounts meeting her husband at the Ed Roby Foundation's residency, highlighting the intellectual and emotional connection they forged through their shared passion for writing:
“I think that experience really taught me that there's no such thing as love at first sight. But there is something as love at first conversation. [...] [27:21]”
—Celine Song
This personal anecdote reinforces the episode's central theme: meaningful connections often arise from deep conversations and understanding, rather than immediate physical attraction.
Reflections on the Nature of Love
Celine Song reflects on the linguistic and practical aspects of love, advocating for viewing love as an ongoing action rather than a static state:
“It's definitely a verb. [...] It's like an everyday practice. You have to go and do it every day. [31:05]”
—Celine Song
She contrasts this with societal tendencies to treat love as an acquisition, loaded with expectations and superficial benchmarks, thereby complicating the natural flow of relationships.
Conclusion
The episode concludes with Celine Song emphasizing the simplicity and profundity of genuine love, juxtaposed against the often convoluted pursuit of idealized romantic narratives. Her insights offer listeners a nuanced understanding of love's unpredictable nature and the importance of surrendering to its flow.
Notable Quotes:
- Celine Song: “Love is easy. Is it? I find it to be the most difficult thing in the world. [02:20]”
- Celine Song: “Love is very easy, and that's what's the most... that's the hardest thing about it. [09:34]”
- Celine Song: “It's definitely a verb. [...] [31:05]”
- Celine Song: “But there is something as love at first conversation. [27:21]”
This episode of Modern Love masterfully intertwines personal anecdotes, professional insights, and reflective readings to explore the multifaceted dimensions of love. For those who haven't listened, Celine Song's candid discussion offers an enriching perspective on love's complexities and the effortless yet challenging nature of genuine human connection.