On Our Third Date, I Asked for a Joint Bank Account

Summary

Podcast Summary: Modern Love – “On Our Third Date, I Asked for a Joint Bank Account”

Episode Overview Modern Love host Anna Martin explores an unconventional approach to the perennial dating question of “who pays?” with essayist Janine Lynn. Janine catches Anna—and most listeners—off guard with her story: on her third date, she proposed opening a joint bank account. Together, they dive deep into the cultural, familial, and emotional undercurrents that make paying the bill so fraught, why Janine opted for a radical solution, and what happened next. The conversation expands to how money and love intertwine, the meaning behind financial rituals, and why talking openly about money could be a relationship superpower.

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Main Discussion Points & Insights

The Fraught “Who Pays?” Moment in Dating

• Anna's Dilemma: Anna confesses her least favorite part of dating is when the bill arrives, describing the awkwardness of every possible option, from the “slow reach” for the wallet to debating if she should Venmo her date. (00:41)
• Universal Tension: Janine agrees the moment is anxiety-inducing and complicated by underlying gender roles, pride, and perceptions of power. (02:43)

Janine’s Relationship with Paying and Money Rituals

• Slapping the Table: Janine describes her intense compulsion to claim the bill—“My hand slapped the table, laying claim…like my life depended on it.” (03:22)
• Rooted in Family Dynamics: Janine traces her intensity to childhood memories at big Chinese family banquets, where relatives fiercely fought to pay—sometimes physically. She recalls sneaking money into an aunt’s pocket under the table. (07:12)

“My cousins and I would take bets on who would win. Like it was a wrestling match or battle royale.” – Janine Lynn (07:02)

• Deeper Meaning: The “ritual” was more than competition—it was rooted in care and face-saving, especially when relatives couldn’t afford the lavish meal. Her family would secretly repay whoever “won.” (07:47)

“But underneath it all is this kind of invisible checks and balances...we’re all performing this ritual because we all want the right and the privilege and the honor to win that moment.” – Janine Lynn (08:19)

The Stress of Always Paying—and Being Unseen

• Never Fought Back: Janine explains how continually paying—without even a symbolic fight—left her feeling uncared for. “Are people noticing? Are people caring?...Are people asking...am I okay to pay this bill?” (10:14)

Why Splitting or Being Paid For Didn’t Work Either

• Splitting the Bill: Felt transactional and disconnected: “It just felt like, you go your way, I’ll go my way. Like, we don’t have to see each other again.” (11:50)
• Letting the Guy Pay: Felt unnatural and wrong; she worried it implied obligation—or that her “love is for sale.” (10:50)
• No Winning: Anna observes there’s “kind of no way to win”; Janine agrees, which led to her creative solution: “That’s why the only solution in my mind was the joint bank account.” (12:28)

The Radical Proposal: Joint Bank Account on the Third Date

• Origin of the Idea: Janine was fed up with paying and wanted to force a transparent conversation about money. She jokes that people do much more complicated things to test compatibility—like getting a pet or moving in—than simply opening a bank account. (13:33)

"At the time, it was easier to close a bank account than to cancel a gym membership." – Janine Lynn (14:25)

• The Plan: Both would deposit equal or proportional amounts monthly to cover dating expenses—less than she was already spending. (16:28, 17:03)
• Acknowledging the Risks: Janine worried about being taken advantage of, so she kept initial deposits manageable, “$250...felt like an okay amount to lose if this thing turned into, whoa, a guy taking off with my money.” (17:57)
• Willingness to Lose: The risk was worth it: “$250 lost, but knowing that this guy was definitely not someone I was ever going to marry was worth the money.” (18:29)

The Pitch—and the Third Date

• Low Expectations: She admits the date, “Adon,” was not her type, making the ask feel lower stakes—but pitching the idea was highly vulnerable. (20:51, 21:08)
• What Was at Stake: For Janine, the pitch was a bold act of self-revelation, bringing together her Chinese heritage and desire for care. “I was finally bringing all the stuff that I felt like I was hiding to the person...” (22:06)

The Big Moment—How the Date Reacted

• Live at the Table: Janine waits until the bill comes, then lays out her family ritual and joint account proposal. Adon thinks it must be a joke, laughing until he realizes it is not: “His body language said it all...he crossed his arms...leaned back like he was trying to get away.” (26:40)
• Emotional Fallout: Janine speeds through her logic, feels anxious and self-conscious. In the end, she simply pays the bill as usual. (28:17)
• Aftermath: “He’s probably going to ghost me. I’m never going to see this guy again.” (28:18)

The Shocking Yes

• Adon’s Text: Days later, Adon texts: “Hey, let’s meet at a bank in San Francisco and open this account.” (29:59)

“That’s basically a sext to you at this point.” – Anna Martin (30:07)

• At the Bank: Janine changes to a convenient bank for Adon, guided by both kindness and strategy. Adon seems hesitant, spends a long time reading terms and conditions, but signs. (32:28, 34:59)
• How It Felt: Getting the debit cards was exhilarating and validating—a symbol she’d finally asked for what she wanted and received it. (36:18)

What Happened Next—And What It Meant

• Instant Relationship Clarity: They never had a “defining the relationship” conversation—the joint account was the test and commitment rolled into one. (38:24)
• Spoiler: They’re married, together for nine years, with multiple joint accounts now. (39:18)

“The only time we ever talked about it again was when we closed that account to open another joint bank account with better benefits.” – Janine Lynn (39:28)

Adon’s Reason

• The Real Motive: Years later, Janine learns Adon’s decision was less about being swept off his feet by her proposal, and more about needing to build credit as a new immigrant in the US. (41:14)
• Mutual Needs Met: The key takeaway: each had needs, and supporting each other’s needs (even if not fully understood) became the template for their enduring relationship.

“When we express what’s important to us, both are working towards helping each other achieve those things. And that has been our recipe for success.” – Janine Lynn (43:11)

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Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• “It was a bonkers idea...that moment when the bill comes is so fraught, is so anxiety-driven. And there’s so many layers and complexities to that moment.” – Janine Lynn (02:43)
• “In my brain, I said, if he pays, I’m gonna kill him.” – Janine Lynn reliving her internalized ritual (03:22)
• “[At Chinese banquets]...my cousins and I would take bets on who would win. Like a wrestling match or battle royale.” – Janine Lynn (07:02)
• “They gave me money and asked me to crawl under the dinner table and sneak money into her pocket. Like a reverse pickpocketing.” – Janine Lynn (07:12)
• “Are people noticing? Are people caring? Are people asking the question, am I okay to pay this bill?” – Janine Lynn (10:14)
• “That’s why the only solution in my mind was the joint bank account.” – Janine Lynn (12:28)
• “You don’t need to be radically transparent...it’s just like, let’s just talk about our relationship to money and what that means for us and what that meant for our families, because that’s who we inherited it from.” – Janine Lynn (44:12)
• “When we express what’s important to us, both are working towards helping each other achieve those things. And that has been our recipe for success.” – Janine Lynn (43:11)
• “Well, you know, when you open a joint bank account on your third date, like, everything’s on the table from there on out.” – Janine Lynn (46:09)

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Key Timestamps of Major Segments

• 00:41 – Anna describes the “fraught bill” moment.
• 02:37 – Janine admits people think her idea is bonkers.
• 07:12 – The family ritual: fighting to pay the bill, crawling under the table with cash.
• 10:14 – Realization of feeling unseen and uncared for.
• 12:28 – “The only solution was the joint bank account.”
• 17:03 – Janine’s calculations and rationale for the proposal.
• 20:51 – Why the pitch was so vulnerable.
• 25:27 – The live play-by-play: Janine proposes on Date 3.
• 29:59 – The shock text: “Let’s meet at the bank.”
• 36:14 – They leave the bank with new joint debit cards.
• 39:18 – Update: Married, nine years together.
• 41:14 – The real reason Adon said yes: he needed to build credit as a new immigrant.
• 43:11 – The relationship “recipe for success”: honoring each other’s needs.
• 44:12 – Janine’s advice: It’s not about “full transparency,” but about open conversation.
• 46:36 – Janine’s advice for Anna’s first date: “Call out the moment and say, ‘How do you feel about it?’”

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Tone and Takeaways

• Conversational, Insightful, Honest: Both host and guest are candid, warm, and humorous while sharing very personal perspectives on something often left unsaid in dating.
• Deeply Personal, Universally Relatable: The story is rooted in Janine’s unique mix of cultural inheritance and personal experience, but resonates for anyone who has wrangled with “the check” or the intertwining of money and intimacy.
• Encourages Boldness and Openness: Both advocate for being authentic and courageous about your needs—a message that transcends the context of dating and checks.
• Reframes “Romance”: The episode challenges conventional ideas of romance, suggesting true intimacy can mean helping each other meet unspoken needs—even if, on the surface, it’s about joint checking accounts.

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If You Missed the Episode... This is a thoughtful, unexpectedly moving investigation into what happens at the intersection of money, culture, pride, and love—and how sometimes, the most unromantic gestures are the ones that build enduring intimacy.

Transcript

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[Janine Lynn]

Love now. And did you fall in love last fella?

[Snack Enthusiast]

I love her love, but stronger than.

[Janine Lynn]

Anything for the love love and I.

[Anna Martin]

Love you more than anything there's to love love. From the New York Times. I'm Anna Martin. This is Modern Love. Let me tell you about my least favorite part of a date. It's the moment the bill hits the table. Regardless of whether the date's been good, the date's been bad. When that bill comes, I'm frozen. I don't know what to do. I'm like, should I do the slow reach for the wallet, hoping the guy slaps that Amex down? Do I just let him throw the card down and then get sort of offended? Cause it's like, do you think, I can't pay for this? It's just a vodka soda. Should we split it? Which is always kind of weird. Should I Venmo him?

[Janine Lynn]

Should I Venmo him?

[Anna Martin]

It's like, oh, God, every option is so undignified. But today I'm talking to a Modern Love essayist who had an unexpected solution to that exact problem. Here is what she did. On her third date with a guy, she proposed they open a joint checking account. And I have to say, even though that sounds quite extreme, her reasoning actually started to convince me. Here's our conversation. Janine Lynn, welcome to Modern Love.

[Janine Lynn]

Thanks for having me.

[Anna Martin]

Anna, I want to tell you that I am talking to you on an incredibly fortuitous day because I have a date tonight. And I know that when the check comes, we're going to do that horrible, weird little dance where I, like, reach for the wallet, but I'm looking at him. Who's going to pay? Should we split it? Da, da, da. And when you were dating and facing this question, you did something I've never heard of anyone doing ever. You asked a guy to open a joint bank account on your third date. I have to know. Do people freak out when you tell them this?

[Janine Lynn]

Absolutely. They think I'm bonkers.

[Anna Martin]

Yes.

[Janine Lynn]

Yeah. It was a bonkers Idea. And you're right, that moment when the bill comes is so fraught, is so anxiety driven. And there's so many layers and complexities to that moment. You know, it's like, do I pay? If I pay, does that mean my love is for sale? If he pays, does that mean, like, he owns me? Or, you know, is there some sort of projection of alphaness that we need to establish here?

[Anna Martin]

Anti feminism. Yeah, exactly. You say, and I agree. It's such a fraught moment. Do you remember put yourself back when a check came, what did you say? What did he say? What did you do?

[Janine Lynn]

So whenever I was on a date, out to dinner or having drinks or playing miniature golf, whatever it was, whenever it came time to pay, or whenever at dinner, for instance, the bill landed on the table, my knee jerk reaction was to grab the bill and offer to pay. And it wasn't just like a gentle, oh, let me pay. It was like a no. My hand slapped the table, laying claim to the Czech presenter. And I took it like, it was like, like my life depended on it. In my brain, I said, if he pays, I'm gonna kill him. But what I said to the actual date was like, oh, let me get this.

[Anna Martin]

And what would they do? With her eyes wide, like, what was their reaction?

[Janine Lynn]

I mean, of course they would kind of recoil a little bit from the. The, like, violent grabbing of the bill. A little bit.

[Liberty Mutual Narrator]

Yeah.

[Janine Lynn]

But then be like, sure, you know, they just, let me pay.

[Anna Martin]

You said, if he pays, this, you know, hypothetical guy on this hypothetical date, you will kill him. Why? What is it about someone doing something ostensibly kind for you that ignites such fury?

[Janine Lynn]

So, honestly, Anna, I didn't know at the time. I just kept doing it over and over and over again. It was a compulsion. It was instinctual. I had no idea what that was. I thought it was, you know, feminism. I thought it was whatever conversations we have in our brain about that moment. And it wasn't until I was out to dinner with my family and the bill came and I heard my dad say, if you pay it, I will kill you. And then, like, who to who? To his aunts.

[Anna Martin]

Yeah, totally. Uh huh.

[Janine Lynn]

Uh huh. And so that's when I. It clicked in my head. I'm like, oh, my God. That's where I get it from.

[Anna Martin]

When you went out to dinner with your family, can you sort of tell me what would happen? You eat a delicious meal and then what?

[Janine Lynn]

Oh, so it would have only really happened in these big Chinese banquets when we were celebrating my grandfather's Birthday, my grandmother's birthday, or some big moment. And there were, you know, like we'd have 10 tables at a restaurant for our family. And every table was 10 people. So it's like eight, nine courses of food, all centered, all in the middle of this lazy Susan, you know, and you just turn it around and you'd pick at it. And so at the end of dinner, after this 12 hour event, the bill would come and you could almost. I remember this as a kid because I loved it so much. You can almost sense the energy in the room.

[Anna Martin]

Pause.

[Janine Lynn]

You know that moment where, like animals suddenly sense an earthquake and they pause and they look up? Yes, it was like that. And everyone would just like, claw for the bill and threaten bodily harm, have all these different kind of schemes for how to pay for that bill.

[Anna Martin]

I really. I understand in the sense that I am half Chinese. And this is a scene that I can absolutely resonate with. I remember being. I think it was in Michigan, where my grandparents were living at the time. Big dinner, family dinner, like you describe. And I remember my aunt and my father fought so violently over the check. My aunt accidentally scratched my dad and he bled all over. I guess, like as a kid, you say you weren't aware of what was happening. What did it appear like to you? Put yourself in, like, kid Janine brain. What did you see your family doing? Did you think, like, they're being insane or did you think this is kind of just how it is?

[Janine Lynn]

I thought it was just kind of how it was. And I. It was fun for me. Cause my cousins and I would take bets on who would win. Like it was a wrestling match or battle royale or something.

[Anna Martin]

Yeah.

[Janine Lynn]

And to be honest, the moment where it really clicked for me was when my aunt won the bill one time and my parents, in what appeared to me as a refusal to lose, they gave me money, bills in my hand and asked me to crawl under the dinner table and crawl my way towards her and sneak money into her pocket. Like a reverse pickpocketing.

[Anna Martin]

So she'll at some point later in the night discover she has, like, all these big things.

[Janine Lynn]

Exactly.

[Anna Martin]

Why? Why?

[Janine Lynn]

In my mind, I thought it was another scheme. Like, my parents had refused to lose and this was a way for them to win. But on my way home from that dinner with my parents, they were brainstorming ways to continue to pay her back for the dinner bill. Like with groceries, with clothes for her kids, with all these other things. And I was confused. I was like, why? I did a good job putting money in her Pocket, like, I didn't kill you. Why are we still trying to pay her back? And they're like, well, she just lost her job. And so we let her win to save face, to have the honor and the privilege of paying for the bill. But we know she can't afford it, so they knew she couldn't afford that dinner. And they are working behind the scenes to pay her back and then some, and really to take care of her. And so that's when that ritual started to become clear to me exactly what it was. We're all performing this ritual because we all want the right and the privilege and the honor to win that moment. But underneath it all is this kind of invisible checks and balances that is happening that you don't really talk about. Because before then I was just like, oh, fun. They're fighting. And then underneath that, that was a moment that I learned that there was something more happening underneath all of that.

[Anna Martin]

That is a really illuminating memory. What did it teach you about money and relationships? The relationship, as it were, between the two?

[Janine Lynn]

That's a good question. It's so hard to separate, right? Money and relationships and care. And of course, you can care for someone without having money involved at all. But money was such a big part of our lives because we didn't have that much of it. You know, my family, very working class. My mom was a waitress, my dad worked in a factory. Similarly, my aunts and uncles were also blue collar. And so going out to dinner like that, a big family banquet, was a big deal for us, you know? And so even now I have the means to pay for every dinner if I wanted to. But it still comes back to that moment of like, is someone watching? Is someone caring? Is someone noticing, like, what this moment means? And like, this goes back to dating. It's like every time I fought for the bill and I won because no one fought me back.

[Anna Martin]

They were scared.

[Janine Lynn]

Like, I just kept grabbing the check, grabbing check, happy to do it. Because I was saying, I care about this. I'm investing in this relationship. But when no one fought me back and no one stopped to ask the question, are you okay paying this? Are you financially okay to foot this bill over and over again? That's when it really started to hurt. Because then it made me wonder, are people noticing? Are people caring? Are people asking the question, am I okay to pay this bill?

[Anna Martin]

What were you afraid would happen if you didn't pay? What was that worst case scenario to you?

[Janine Lynn]

I tried not paying, okay? I tried not paying and just letting them pay Every time. And it just felt gross to me. It just felt unnatural. It just felt, oh, God. Just like, not. It just. It wasn't in my body to let that happen. And I tried. I really gave it a good try. I let them pay over and over again. But, you know, in addition to my inherited Chinese rituals, there was also that layer of feminism. There was also that layer of all these other things that we talked about. When the bill came, it was like, if I let him pay, do I owe him something? You know, like, if I let him pay, does that mean my love is for sale? If I let him pay? Like, the were all these questions in my brain that made letting them pay not work for me. I tried splitting the bill. You know, what was that like?

[Anna Martin]

Cause that's my approach normally. And I'm like, yeah, let's split it.

[Janine Lynn]

It just felt like, you go your way, I'll go my way. Like, we don't have to see each other again. I paid for my stuff. You paid for your stuff. We don't owe each other anything. And I didn't like that either, you know, because that moment we shared over dinner, getting to know each other, did that not mean anything enough? Did that not mean enough for us to invest a little bit of money, a little bit of ourselves into it?

[Anna Martin]

So it seems like, Janine, there's kind of no way to win. You didn't like letting him pay. You didn't like splitting, and you. You liked paying, but you were also like, dang, aren't you going to fight me more? It's like, there's no way to win in this situation.

[Janine Lynn]

No. And that's why the only solution in my mind was the joint bank account.

[Anna Martin]

Okay, we're gonna get into it now because that is not where many people's brain would go. Right? You say that's why the only solution was a joint bank account. We need to dig into that. How did that idea come to you?

[Janine Lynn]

I just remember the growing frustration I felt where I was paying date after date, you know, whether it was third date, fourth date, first date, whatever it was. And no one stopped to have a conversation with me about it. No one stopped. I mean, no one stopped to fight me back. But also, more importantly, no one was talking to me about what this moment meant. No one was talking to me about finances. No one was talking to me about financial compatibility, you know, and. And then. And then. And then from there, my brain went, this is so ridiculous that we don't talk about money.

[Anna Martin]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like this big Issue. Let's just avoid it. You know what I mean? It's kind of too complicated to deal with. Although it does feel that way when you're getting to know someone. It feels kind of rude to bring it up, so I understand, but okay, you're feeling this growing frustration. So then what?

[Janine Lynn]

Well, so then my brain went to, like, oh, my God, there's so many other ways that people test compatibility in a relationship. That's so much harder than opening a bank account. Like what? Oh, let's get a pet together to see if we can raise a child. And then you break up, and then you have to discuss custody over who gets the pet.

[Anna Martin]

You can take care of Spot. Totally.

[Janine Lynn]

Yeah, exactly. Or you move in together into an apartment, and then you break up, and then you have to fight over who gets what furniture.

[Anna Martin]

Or, like, you're kind of convincing me right now. A dog and apartment in a city like New York. I'm like, all those things are so tough to disentangle if something doesn't work. And you're saying with a checking account, you just kind of go to the bank and it's done?

[Janine Lynn]

Yes, Anna, at the time, it was easier to close a bank account than to cancel a gym membership.

[Anna Martin]

Oh, my God. They really don't let you go on those gym memberships, I'll have you know. But still, the joint bank account of it all seems to me, at least on its face, to carry, like, a. A bigger weight. I wonder. I wonder why. You know, like, I hear the apartment in the pet, and you're laying out a very logical argument. But I'm like, something about joint bank account screams, like, marriage to me.

[Janine Lynn]

Oh, absolutely. I even know people who are married that still won't have a joint bank account because they're so, like, they have such a different relationship with money, and money is protection, and I don't want to share any of it because we might get divorced. And, you know, there's so many different relationships that people can have with money, for sure. And so for me, a joint bank account made so much sense because we could each deposit the same amount of money if it was proportional to our incomes, and it was a certain amount every month that we would direct deposit in. And then I could fight for the bill and still feel like, behind the scenes, I was taken care of because we were equally contributing to this account.

[Anna Martin]

So you're laying out, again, like, a very logical argument for why opening a joint bank account actually isn't such a logistical lift as it might sound like. But at the same Time. You know, people don't get a dog. Well, I'll say many people don't get a dog or get an apartment. All these things. You're comparing it to on the third date, right? On an early date. So can you describe the part of your plan where you wanted to sort of float this to someone in the early stages of getting to know them? Like, what was the logic there?

[Janine Lynn]

There was no logic, Anna. I was just so tired. So at this point in my, like, early 30s, where I was, like, really tired of going on date after date after date where this kept coming up, I was just fed up. And I was like, okay, this is what I'm going to do. And this is going to cause a reaction in the other person that's going to be very revealing to me, and then I'll go from there.

[Anna Martin]

So you'd open up this account in both your names, and then you'd what?

[Janine Lynn]

In my brain, it was once a month. We would do a direct deposit that was proportional to our incomes.

[Anna Martin]

You'd prorate it. Very smart.

[Janine Lynn]

Yep. And then, yeah, both our names would be on the debit cards.

[Anna Martin]

And would you get, like, I don't know, a picture of you guys on the card or what was the thing?

[Janine Lynn]

No, I didn't want to go that far. You can't.

[Anna Martin]

Yeah, you can't do that.

[Janine Lynn]

That'd be insane.

[Anna Martin]

Can I ask, like, how much would you imagine would be in this joint bank account?

[Janine Lynn]

So at the time I calculated how much I was spending on these dinner dates.

[Anna Martin]

I really did your research.

[Janine Lynn]

Yes. I really thought about this. It was really bothering me. I think I was spending upwards of a thousand dollars a month on dinner dates. This is San Francisco Bay area, so everything. Everything is really expensive there. Going out is so expensive in my brain. I had wanted to start off in my proposal with something even lower, something more manageable, like $500. So $250 per person, which seems more reasonable, right? Given how expensive everything was inside the.

[Anna Martin]

Yeah, I think if you went with a thousand at the top, it would be hard.

[Janine Lynn]

Yeah, it would be a hard. No, I wanted to make this as crazy and bonkers as it sounded. I wanted to this to actually sound quite logical and quite easy to do.

[Anna Martin]

Did you worry that you'd propose this joint bank account and this guy would agree to it, but then he'd, like, take all the money and leave town? Were you worried about that happening?

[Janine Lynn]

Oh, yes. I was worried about being taken advantage of, yes, absolutely. Which is why I didn't propose putting in $1,000. Oh, my God, $500. You know, really, 250 between the two of us felt like an okay amount to lose if this thing turned into, Whoa, a guy taking off with my money. Yeah.

[Anna Martin]

So that worst case scenario was like, truly in your mind. You were like, that's possible. He could just take the money and run.

[Janine Lynn]

Yes, absolutely.

[Anna Martin]

Well, that would be a surefire way to know that guy was not your guy. Am I right?

[Janine Lynn]

Exactly. Yeah. $250 lost. But knowing that this guy was definitely not someone I was ever going to marry was worth the money.

[Anna Martin]

I will just say, though, like, 250, that's still a risk. And to me, that shows, like, that's a chunk of change, no matter which way you slice it. And I feel like it shows me that you were, like, you were, like, serious about this plan. Like you were willing to lose money. That's how serious you were about it.

[Janine Lynn]

Yeah. I mean, the way I rationalized it in my head was it was still less than I was paying when I was constantly fighting to pay the bill and paying for every single dinner. So in my mind I was like, oh, it's still less than what I was investing in previous dates.

[Anna Martin]

You're like, look, I couldn't be spending any more money on these dates. Tell me. You had this pitch perfected, as it were. You had this idea, all of the different points locked down. You'd researched it. The real rubber meets the road. When you actually pitch it to a person, tell me who the person you pitched this idea to was. Who was the guy? The lucky guy.

[Janine Lynn]

His name is Adon. And it was our third date. We had met on Bumble. I didn't know much about him. I knew he was from Ireland. I knew he had just gotten out of business school and was his first year in tech in San Francisco. And I knew he lived in San Mateo, which is about 20 minutes away from me in San Francisco, where I was living at the time. Beyond that, I didn't know much else about him. I did know, though, if I were to perceive anything about his demeanor or his personality, it was that he was quite calm, gentle, kind of soul. Like, very kind. You know, immediately when someone walks in the door, you can kind of sense who they are. Like, oh, this is the kind of guy, like, you know, so let me back up and say I. Yeah, yeah. When a person walks in the room, I can instantly project or fantasize about what life might be like with them if I were married. And, you know, some guys just walk into the room, are like, oh, this is the kind of guy I'm gonna go jump out of a plane with, you know, and that's. That's gonna be our life together. And when Adon walked into the room, I was like, oh, this is the kind of guy I'm gonna enjoy a cup of tea with as we watch sheep cross the meadows from our window. I dig it. Yeah.

[Anna Martin]

Was that, like, attractive to you? Did you want that?

[Janine Lynn]

I didn't think so at the time, to be honest. Like, I was still in the phase of my life where I wanted to be jumping out of planes with someone. And so there was nothing to lose with Adon and this pitch for a joint paycount because I was like, he's not quite my type, but he's the cheap guy.

[Anna Martin]

I want the plain guy.

[Janine Lynn]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Anna Martin]

Interesting. So you kind of were like. It felt low stakes.

[Janine Lynn]

Yes. It felt the man sitting across from me and our relationship felt low stakes. But the proposal to do a joint bank account was certainly very high stakes because it was the first time that I felt like I was really putting myself out there, to be honest. Like, he could have been anyone that I pitched this to. With online dating, it doesn't matter, right? Like, you, if this date was a bust, you just go on another date, and then you go on another date after that. You know, I think that's a really.

[Anna Martin]

Important distinction you just made. The guy didn't matter so much, but this pitch did. And I guess I want to push on that a little. It's like, what were you afraid would happen you'd make this pitch? It's well researched, it's tight. You have a deck. I'm joking, but you might as well have a deck, you know? Like, what were you afraid would happen if this person said no? I mean, I guess it doesn't matter if he said no. You just pitched the next person. But, yeah, you were opening up in this way you hadn't before on a date.

[Janine Lynn]

Yeah, I did have a deck, Anna.

[Anna Martin]

Oh.

[Janine Lynn]

And I was gonna. I was going to bring it out if I needed to.

[Anna Martin]

You did.

[Janine Lynn]

You had, like, an iPad in your bag. I was on my phone. But honestly, if they rejected my proposal, it would have felt like they were rejecting me because I spent so much of my dating experience trying to be someone I thought people wanted to be sitting across from at dinner. Right. I spent so many years of my youth, especially teenage high school years, rejecting the Chinese side of my. Of my identity and trying to fit into mainstream, and it wasn't until that moment where I had the idea to pitch this joint bank account that I finally felt like I was bringing myself to the table. I was finally bringing all the stuff that I felt like I was hiding to the person that I would potentially be spending the rest of my life from. And in my mind I was thinking, why would I hide this from this person? Like, if I'm on this date with a objective to find the person I wanted to marry and spend the rest of my life with, this is not an aspect of myself I should hide any longer. And so, yeah, if Adon rejected me, I would have been crushed. But then I told myself, there's the next guy and the guy after that. So maybe it's okay. Maybe I can can be bold for once.

[Anna Martin]

We'll be right back.

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[Anna Martin]

So you get to this date, it's your third date with Adan. Pictures loaded up on the phone. Bring me into that moment. You sit down at the table. Do you bring it up right at the beginning of the meal?

[Janine Lynn]

No, I make sure we have a really lovely meal. I made sure to order, like, really good food. And we had. We were enjoying ourselves, had great conversation so that when the moment came, when the bill landed on the table, I could make this presentation.

[Anna Martin]

Slow this down for me. The waiter drops it off. Normally you'd claw for this. What do you do instead?

[Janine Lynn]

I say, hey, can I talk to you about something? For a second, it's about this moment. I'm on the edge of my feet and I say, I don't remember exactly what else. What I said, but it was something like, you know, this moment means a lot to me and to my family. And as you've noticed, the first two dates, I've fought you to pay for this bill. And you didn't fight me back. You just let me pay. Which is okay, but let me explain what my expectation is. And I explained my family ritual. And I explained that it would be hard for him to, like, intuitively understand it. And so what I would. What I'm proposing to you is a joint bank account. And then, of course, yeah, of course, he's just like, what?

[Anna Martin]

I know I was gonna say, okay, we're with you. Then the camera pans. What's his face doing when you say.

[Janine Lynn]

And so I think he thinks I'm telling a joke. He thinks I'm. I'm joking. He's like, he's laughing.

[Anna Martin]

And then you're like, no, I'm serious.

[Janine Lynn]

Yeah. And I had to, like, there was seriousness on my face. So I had to wait for him to register my expression. And it felt like the longest pause ever. It felt like the whole world took a breath to wait for him to realize I was serious about this proposal. And then when he realized I wasn't joking, of course his body language said it all. It was like he crossed his arms, he kind of leaned back in his chair like he was trying to get away from me.

[Anna Martin]

Oh, no.

[Janine Lynn]

Oh, no.

[Anna Martin]

Oh, no. And how did that make you feel?

[Janine Lynn]

Oh, my God. I started nervous. I was so anxious, I started rattling. You know, everything I said to you earlier about the logic behind the bank account, I was probably just racing through that logic. Oh, my God. Words were spilling out of my mouth. I had no idea what I was saying. I was saying some kind of logic, hopeful, but all I could remember was just his body language. It was just like slowly pulling away from me. If he could, he would have ran through the wall and there would have been an 8 on shaped hole in the wall. You know, like that was the level of discomfort I had created for both of us. And of course the bill came and I just paid for it because I felt so bad for, like, what I subjected him to.

[Anna Martin]

Oh, my God. Wait, so the. Wait, so the bill came. You were like, I want to talk to you about something. You do the pitch. He seems to really not be into it. And then you're like, you know what? Screw this. And then you just put your credit card down, like that's how you ended that pitch.

[Janine Lynn]

Yeah.

[Anna Martin]

Yeah.

[Janine Lynn]

And I was like, you know what? I just subjected him to the most uncomfortable moment in this three date relationship. I'm just gonna take care of the bill and, you know, we're just gonna peace out. He's probably gonna ghost me. I'm never gonna see this guy again. So then we just leave the restaurant.

[Anna Martin]

Whoa. And let me just. So let's just linger here for a second. How did you feel when you were driving or on the Bart or. I don't know how you're getting home from this date, but how were you feeling?

[Janine Lynn]

I think I was still recovering from having gone through it. Like, I wasn't necessarily thinking about being rejected or whatever. It was just like, oh, wow. My body was still in aftershock of having done that. And then only afterwards, like a few hours later, that I was like, okay. I told myself I was like, okay, you did it. You asked for what you wanted. You didn't get it from this guy, but there's another guy that I could go on a date with that I'm gonna try again with. So I think it was confidence masking disappointment for sure. But I didn't want to give up on it. I knew I couldn't give up on it.

[Anna Martin]

So you weren't expecting to hear from Adon again?

[Janine Lynn]

No, I thought it was over. I was expecting him to ghost me, to block me on his phone, to report me to Bumble as a scam artist. But then he texted. I can't remember when. Like, if it was a few days later. Whatever it was, I was really surprised to hear from him. But he texted, hey, let's meet at a bank in San Francisco and open this account.

[Anna Martin]

Okay. Most romantic text ever.

[Janine Lynn]

Okay, let's meet at a bank and open this account.

[Anna Martin]

That's basically a sext to you at.

[Janine Lynn]

This point in my world. Yes.

[Betterment Advertiser]

Wow.

[Anna Martin]

Okay. So how did you feel that's so unexpected for you?

[Janine Lynn]

I was like, okay, game on. We're doing this. Like, okay. He totally bought my pitch.

[Anna Martin]

You're like, I knew it was great.

[Janine Lynn]

It was undeniable.

[Anna Martin]

Didn't even have to bring out the dick.

[Janine Lynn]

Yeah.

[Anna Martin]

We'll be right back.

[Liberty Mutual Narrator]

And Doug, here we have the limu emu in its natural habitat, helping people customize their car insurance and save hundreds with Liberty Mutual. Fascinating. It's accompanied by his natural ally, Doug.

[Anna Martin]

Limu is that guy with the binoculars watching us.

[Liberty Mutual Narrator]

Cut the camera. They see us.

[Liberty Mutual Announcer]

Only pay for what you [e-mail] Liberty.

[Janine Lynn]

Liberty Liberty Liberty Savings.

[Liberty Mutual Announcer]

Very unwritten by Liberty Mutual Insurance Company affiliates. Excludes Massachusetts.

[Anna Martin]

What do you think makes the perfect snack?

[Snack Enthusiast]

It's gotta be when I'm really craving it and it's convenient.

[Anna Martin]

Could you be more specific?

[Snack Enthusiast]

When it's craving. Okay, like a freshly baked cookie made with real butter, available right down the street at a.m. p.m. Or a savory breakfast sandwich I can grab in just a second at a.m. p.m.

[Anna Martin]

I'm seeing a pattern here.

[Snack Enthusiast]

Well, yeah, we're talking about what I.

[Anna Martin]

Crave, which is anything from AM pm.

[Snack Enthusiast]

What more could you want? Stop by AM PM where the snacks and drinks are perfectly craveable and convenient. That's cravenience. AM PM Too much Good stuff.

[Liberty Mutual Narrator]

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[Anna Martin]

Okay, so he says meet at a bank.

[Janine Lynn]

Yeah, he had picked a bank in San Francisco. And I was like, you know what? No, no, no. In my brain I was like, no, no, I gotta make this as easy for him as possible. And so I picked a bank in San Mateo where he lived. And it was only a six minute walk away from his apartment. So I knew that there was like a short distance to get cold feet and to turn around.

[Anna Martin]

I was gonna say, that's nice of you, but it turns out it was purely strategic. Before you go in, like, did you ask him what changed your mind? You know, you seemed really not into it.

[Janine Lynn]

No, I was so convinced that it was because of my brilliant proposal, like my undefeatable logic that like convinced him. But I will say, like, we met in front of the bank and it was awkward. It was like we didn't hug or kiss. Like do that thing where you do when you greet each other. And his body language still spoke volumes. It was still like arms crossed against his chest, like he was kind of just there going through the motions, but hadn't really processed what was happening. But I was just like, you know, just take it. Take it for what? He's here. We're gonna do this. No buyer's remorse.

[Anna Martin]

But were you. But was that worrying to you? That he was like, yeah, he was saying he wanted to do it, but he clearly wasn't like, maybe that into it.

[Janine Lynn]

I mean, I did ask him, are you sure about this? Because. And I didn't necessarily say because your Body's saying everything opposite of what your mouth is saying. But he's like, yes, I'm sure. So I was like, okay, we're doing this. And so we walk in. We didn't have an appointment, but, you know, they weren't busy. And we sat down and we said, we want to open a joint bank account.

[Anna Martin]

And wait, did the bank teller ask, like, so how long you guys been married or something? Like, did that come out?

[Janine Lynn]

I mean, the assumption is that we just got married and we're opening this bank account, you know? Yeah.

[Anna Martin]

And so did you tell them, like, we actually just met?

[Janine Lynn]

Yes.

[Anna Martin]

How did they react?

[Janine Lynn]

Okay, that's unusual. But.

[Anna Martin]

But business.

[Janine Lynn]

Business is business. So let me tell you about overdraft fees, you know, so, yeah, it was quite a moment where it was just like, the two of us, and we're like, yeah, this is. Let's just go through this. This is our fourth date. But we're just gonna pretend that this is totally normal fourth date behavior.

[Anna Martin]

@ any point when you were sort of going over the fine print, were you worried he would, like, pull out?

[Janine Lynn]

Absolutely. The whole time you were there, I was worried he was gonna pull out. Every second I had to look over, I was checking in on him to make sure this was still okay for him. And what surprised me was when we finally got to signing the documents, he spent an inordinate amount of time reading through the terms and conditions of this bank account. And it's normally something that I would just, like, sign my life away for. You know, like, I'm. I don't read it right. It's too small to take time to look at. But he was going through page after page after page of terms and conditions to the point where I was getting annoyed because I was like, this was supposed to be a 15 minute thing, and it's turning into a 45 minute experience.

[Anna Martin]

What does that mean to you, though, that he was doing such, like, due diligence? He was serious about it.

[Janine Lynn]

He was very serious about it. And it almost felt like I couldn't get. I mean, I. I'm not in his brain, but it felt like he was taking the time to really think about what this meant, what this joint bank account meant, what the terms and conditions of this relationship was, of what signing this document meant for our relationship and our time together.

[Anna Martin]

So. So you. You get. Do you end this appointment with your debit cards? Like, you have your new debit cards in hand?

[Janine Lynn]

We had temporary debit cards. Yep.

[Anna Martin]

Whoa.

[Janine Lynn]

And it felt like such a big moment for Me, because it felt like I finally got what I wanted. Like, I finally. This was the physical manifestation of the thing that I was that frustrated me so much about dating that I had found a solution for and that I finally had in my hands, you know, and that I could finally use to be myself in a relationship.

[Anna Martin]

So were you, like, let's go to dinner right now?

[Janine Lynn]

Yeah. You wanna go have lunch? Yeah. We went to lunch after that just to shake off all the weirdness of that date, too. It was like, let's go back to some sense of normalcy for what a fourth date is supposed to look like, which is a lunch or a coffee or something.

[Anna Martin]

So how did it feel when the bill came? Now that you have your new debit cards, what was that like? What did you do?

[Janine Lynn]

It felt like such relief. Like, it felt like I didn't have to, like, be uncomfortable anymore. It felt like I could just be myself. And it felt like he was on the same page with me, you know? And it's. It's like he didn't fight me back, you know, on it, because, again, it's on the bill. On the bill at this point. Yeah, he didn't fight me back. He didn't fight me to pay the bill. He let me pay. And of course I'm like, I can't expect him to fight me back. Right. That's just something my family and I do like. He's not Chinese. He wouldn't understand. It's not intuitive to him. But the fact that he opened a joint bank account, the fact that me fighting for the bill can happen without me feeling like I was being robbed or feeling like I was being taken advantage of or feeling like you have no safety net. Yeah, exactly. And so that moment felt glorious.

[Anna Martin]

And it went through. Right? Like, you can use money from a.

[Janine Lynn]

Checking account that you just set up.

[Anna Martin]

I don't know. Because the bad end to this is like, you're like, proudly put down your new joint debt debit card. And they're like, ma', am, this was declined.

[Janine Lynn]

That would be really funny.

[Anna Martin]

But that didn't happen. It went through.

[Janine Lynn]

No, it went through.

[Anna Martin]

So you just. You deposited however much money into it bi weekly, and anytime you went out to dates, you would use that debit card. So it worked.

[Janine Lynn]

It worked.

[Anna Martin]

And were you, like, automatically boyfriend and girlfriend because you'd opened up this checking account? Or how did the relationship progress from there?

[Janine Lynn]

Oh, gosh, we never had the DTR conversation. Wow, you guys are really not talking about much. No, but it's so funny because Like, I remember with other relationships that. Let's define the relationship conversation was also really fraught. But it was almost like when the strength bank account opened, we were each other's person. You know, it's like we were linked to each other financially, but also symbolically through this bank account. Like, we were doing this thing together. We had taken. This was our compatibility test, you know, this was our com. Our first step towards commitment. And so we didn't need to have the DTR conversation because that kind of.

[Anna Martin]

Was it the opening of the bank account. Yeah. Was the defining the relationship conversation for you guys?

[Janine Lynn]

Yeah.

[Anna Martin]

Wow. And now I will do a spoiler, which is you've been married for nine years, right?

[Janine Lynn]

Yes, we've been together nine years. Yes.

[Anna Martin]

You've been together nine years.

[Janine Lynn]

Married.

[Anna Martin]

How many?

[Janine Lynn]

I think seven. I've lost count. Mm.

[Anna Martin]

Is this joint bank account still active?

[Janine Lynn]

So the only time we ever talked about it again was when we closed that account to open an another joint bank account with better benefits.

[Anna Martin]

Did it feel. Did it feel, I don't know, bittersweet to sunset that checking account? Which is not a question I ever thought I'd ask someone. But did. Did.

[Janine Lynn]

For me, it did. Yeah. Because it was my moment, you know, it was like the first time I ever asked for what I wanted that meant something to me in such a huge, important way, and I got it. And so when we closed the account, it was sad, you know? Cause it was like, oh, that's the part of that moment for me in our relationship that was so crucial that changed the rest of our lives, you know? But now we have lots of joint bank accounts, so.

[Anna Martin]

Damn, a dozen. Oh, gosh. Well, I want to ask now, like, did you ever ask him, now that you've been, you know, together for nine years, did you ask him what was going through his mind in those, like, days between ending the third date and meeting at the bank? What did he say?

[Janine Lynn]

You know, I had always thought it was because I had such a solid pitch, but it wasn't till years later, when I was sharing the story with friends, when one of them asked, you know, so he just agreed to open a joint bank account with you? Because, of course, like, why would anyone do that? And my response was, yeah, he did. I had a solid pitch. He bought it. You know, he really leaned into what I was saying, and it only occurred to me that night that I should actually ask him if that was true. So I went home, and I said, hey, do you remember that crazy thing we did? I was like, it's because you bought my pitch, right? And he was like, no, no, no, you were bonkers. I said, yes, because I needed financial stability. I needed a way to build credit in a country that I had just arrived in less than a year.

[Anna Martin]

Whoa. That is not as romantic as I thought.

[Janine Lynn]

Yeah, I agree. But what it did. But so it was after all these years, when I thought it was because of this compelling thing I said to him, and it wasn't. And learning that it wasn't, that it kind of reframed everything for me, because in a good way. Because what it made me realize was I had specific needs. He had specific needs. And in our different unmet needs and trying to fulfill our different unmet needs, we had stumbled upon a solution that worked for both of us. I needed a way to practice care in a relationship the way that my family did. And he needed a way to build a foundation for a new life in a new country. And so what it taught me was, you know, yeah, he. He wouldn't necessarily understand my traditions, but what he did in that moment in accepting this proposal for me was that he understood that something was important to me and he honored that. He didn't necessarily need to intuitively understand what fighting for the bill meant. He didn't need to understand that or even practice that or perform that. All he knew was this was important to me and he was going to help me get what was important to me in the same way that, like, for him, this joint bank account meant he could finally establish himself in a new country. And I helped him do that. And so nine years later, finally realizing the other side of the story, I look back in our relationship and I'm like, oh, my gosh. That was a template for our relationship. Like, he's Irish, I am Chinese. He doesn't understand most of what I do. I don't understand him. But when we express what's important to us, both are working towards helping each other achieve those things. And that has been our recipe for success.

[Anna Martin]

My knee jerk response when you shared his he needed to build credit. I said, that's very not romantic. But then at the end of you saying of you describing how this has been your template, I'm like, I actually think that's really romantic. And it even goes beyond romance. It's this deep. This deep level of care that you've achieved between the two of you. And you achieved, in fact, on dates, between dates three and four, or date four, let's say you achieve when you walk into that bank in San Mateo. I was kind of joking, but I actually mean this. Like, do you think if someone's listening to this and they want to do it for themselves, do you recommend that?

[Janine Lynn]

Yes, I do. In fact, I'm going to a bank and pitch this to them as, like, I know, girl. I'm like, we got to make sure.

[Anna Martin]

That Janine isn't sponsored by, like, Citibank or Capital One. Like, this is some spawn con.

[Janine Lynn]

Yeah. No, it's like, well, I do joke. I'm like, instead of promise rings, we should have promise accounts, you know? But, no, I don't necessarily think that opening a joint bank account is right for everyone. But I do think that it is worth having a conversation early on about what our relationship to money is, you know, because not enough people talk about it. Like I said, we are so scared of talking about finances. And I'm not talking about, like, radical transparency. You don't need to go out and say, this is how much they make annually. This is how much I make on my bonus. You know, this is what my mortgage costs. No, it's just like, let's just talk about our relationship to money and what that means for us and what that meant for our family, because that's who we inherited it from, you know? And so I think at least that level of conversation, to me, feels like an intimate step in getting to know each other. Yep. That doesn't happen often enough.

[Anna Martin]

I wonder, too, like, between you and Adon, what are your conversations about money like now? You have multiple joint bank accounts, as you've told me, but.

[Janine Lynn]

Yeah.

[Anna Martin]

What's the concept?

[Janine Lynn]

So we talk a lot about what we want to invest in. We talk a lot about building a financial foundation for our son. We talk a lot about my salary, his salary. I'm a writer now. I used to be in advertising for 14 years. And between the two of us.

[Anna Martin]

Well, that's why you were so good at the damn pitch.

[Janine Lynn]

Okay. My deck was amazing. Yeah. And. And so we talk about, now that I'm a writer, how he's going to have to financially support us. Whereas before, when I was working in advertising, I was financially supporting us. And so we talk about how we want to handle that and how we want to minimize our overhead. We talk really like we're the CFO of our family, like it's a company.

[Anna Martin]

Is there anything you find difficult or uncomfortable to discuss about money still?

[Janine Lynn]

No. Not at all.

[Anna Martin]

Yeah. I think that is extremely rare.

[Janine Lynn]

Well, you know, when you open a joint bank account on your third date, like, everything's on the table from there on out.

[Anna Martin]

Well, I have a first date tonight. I know you don't know me so well, but I wonder what you'd recommend I do. Should I do the slow reach for the wallet? Should I just kind of sit back? I mean, in my ideal world, frankly, like, I wouldn't pay. So I wonder what you think I should do. Should I just say that?

[Janine Lynn]

I think you should be bold and just call out the moment and say, okay, the bill's here. How do you feel about it?

[Anna Martin]

Oh, my God.

[Janine Lynn]

I'm getting legitimately nervous of you saying that. Let's just talk about it. It's such a big moment. Like, it's such a slimy, gross moment. Let's just talk about it.

[Anna Martin]

I hope I have the bravery to do that tonight. I'll report back.

[Janine Lynn]

Please do.

[Anna Martin]

And. But I really will. And I'm inspired by this approach. I truly am. Janine Lynn, thank you for this conversation. I learned a lot.

[Janine Lynn]

Oh, thank you for having me here. This was so much fun.

[Anna Martin]

All right, before we end this episode, I just want to say if you enjoyed today's conversation, you'll definitely want to tune in next week. We're talking more about money and all the complicated, uncomfortable, tricky situations it can cause in relationships. Ramit Sethi, he's the host of how to Get Rich on Netflix. He's going to be here to weigh in on your stories, and he's got some really useful advice. You won't want to miss it. The Modern Love team is Amy Pearl, Christina Josa Davis Land, Elisa Gutierrez, Emily Lane, Jen Poyant, Lynn Levy, Reefa Goldberg and Sarah Curtis. This episode was produced by Elisa Gutierrez and Sarah Curtis. It was edited by Davis Land and Lynn Levy. Original music in this episode by Diane Wong, Pat McCusker, Marion Lozano and Rowan Nimisto. Dan Powell composed our theme music. This episode was mixed by Daniel Ramirez with studio support from Matty Masiello and Nick Pitt. The Modern Love column is edited by Daniel Jones. Mia Lee is the editor of Modern Love Projects. If you'd like to submit an essay or a tiny love story to the New York Times, we've always got the instructions in our show notes. I'm Anna Martin. Thanks for listening.

[Liberty Mutual Narrator]

And Doug, Here we have the limu emu in its natural habitat, helping people customize their car insurance and save hundreds with Liberty Mutual. Fascinating. It's accompanied by his natural ally, Doug.

[Anna Martin]

Uh, limu is that guy with the binoculars watching us?

[Liberty Mutual Narrator]

Cut the camera. They see us.

[Liberty Mutual Announcer]

Only pay for what you [e-mail] Liberty Liberty.

[Janine Lynn]

Liberty.

[Liberty Mutual Announcer]

Liberty Savings Fairy unwritten by Liberty Mutual Insurance Company and affiliates. Excludes Massachusetts.